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Star Trek the Next Generation - The Perfect Mate
35 Plays5 years ago
Captain Picard finds himself in the middle of political intrigue when a Crian delegation in the form of an ambassador and a "gift" are being shepherded toward the Valteans with whom there has been centuries of conflict. It turns out this gift is actually a Crian woman who was groomed to be the consort of the Valtean Chancellor as part of the peace treaty that is being worked out and on top of that she's a Metamorph, a rare mutation among Crian's that produces a once in a lifetime female empathic sex goddess... She ends up imprinting on Picard and then marrying the Valtean anyway, oh yeah and there are Ferengis. Tune into our discussion and let us know what you thought of this episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation.
My guest today is Sean from http://www.youtube.com/trekonthetube
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Transcript
Introduction and Casual Talk
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Starfleet Boy, where we have a casual and informal discussion about our beloved series, Star Trek.
00:00:34
Speaker
And we're back on another exciting episode of Starfleet mode. Indeed. Where we have a casual and informal discussion. I can only do angry Picard. You can only do angry Picard. You can only do rant Picard. Yeah, I can't do regular. I can't do soft Picard. It doesn't sound the same as him. And then I've noticed that your your wolf is also rant Picard.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's the same impression for all the characters, like, even Data. Data, I just add like... Well, not Diana. Well, the one she's possessed, she has that weird kind of deep voice. She does have that. We will destroy everything about you humans. They have modified my voice to make me scary, and now I will take over the bridge.
00:01:19
Speaker
All right, so we totally have gotten off to a great start on this exciting episode of Star Trek, the next duration. This episode is already more interesting than the episode that we're going to review. On this casual and informal discussion, welcome back, Sean. It's nice to have you. Hello. Thank you for having me.
Costume Conversations and Humor
00:01:38
Speaker
I was able to catch up on a lot of internet things and you got me all excited about the Star Trek animated series with you. I noticed you commented, yeah. You've been watching Nick's videos as well, Walski's videos, you've been watching everyone.
00:01:55
Speaker
I, yes, the watcher in the woods. Well, the watcher in the house. In the house, yeah. I don't know, maybe I'm in the woods. Look, I don't know. I don't know where your house is. There aren't any woods in Florida, per se, but we do have swamplant. We have, like, areas of seclusion. OK. Where you could, like, disappear, but I don't go. I don't go.
00:02:25
Speaker
I don't explore strange new worlds and new civilizations alas, unlike my Star Trek counterparts. Yeah, we don't go on road trips like Gary. That man has an amazing life. He does. He leads such a fantastic life. It's true. And as we speak boringly about a boring episode, no, we speak entertainingly about a boring episode, he's like at a Halloween party.
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's pretty awesome. I did go to a Halloween, like a happy hour thing. It was fun. OK. I dressed up this year as myself. Oh, really? Well, yeah, Starfleet. I was just wearing a Star Trek uniform. I wear that more times during the year than I don't, so. Fair enough. I went to work dressed completely normally. I had no costume. No costume? No costume.
00:03:23
Speaker
and people said like what are you disguised as today and i said well you know i'm trying to be disguised as a nice guy because usually i'm just an asshole but i was told several times that it wasn't working so
00:03:35
Speaker
I like that, but next year, if you want to be funnier, you can just tell people you're a character from Harry Potter because they just wear normal clothes. You just need to put like a stick in your pocket. They do. They do. I would like the objective would be to go as Gomez Adams from the Adams family next year. You would pull off a great Gomez. And my wife would be Morticia.
00:04:00
Speaker
uh... that is excellent and now that you have little wednesday we can't we can't no well no we can't because the dance family in uh... uh... wasn't the answer of the values uh... they've been a little baby which is just a bit of a mustache so i could like okay fine she's a girl baby on the two is a girl but i think it's just like a mustache on the moment of the visit it's totally that's totally except she'll totally appreciate that you guys are that creative when she's older
00:04:27
Speaker
Maybe not in her teenage years, but like when she's a not so she'll be like my parents were wicked awesome We didn't we didn't do this. Yes this year because you know she's only like two months old. She's too small Yes, it's maybe two. It's not gonna drag her out at zero degrees October 31st
Starfleet Boy and Modern Values
00:04:44
Speaker
By the way, Starfleet Boy is a modern YouTube series with modern values and modern sensibility. So if you ever needed to feed your child on the show, you're totally welcome to. It won't look unprofessional in the eyes of Starfleet.
00:05:03
Speaker
There's no problem, it's fine. There's no issues, don't worry about it. But I have a very worried wife when it comes to these conversations and I keep on telling her it's casual and informal. I said like, the doctor answers the phone, right? You don't have to worry, but she's all like, I need to get out of your way and I need to turn the volume down on the...
00:05:24
Speaker
No, she's totally welcome. Esther, Gary's wife, hung out in the background during one of the episodes. I know. And I said, you can do the same thing. I loved it. I thought it was so cool. She's all like, you need to keep this professional. This is a family, but it's a family program. So, you know, it's okay. We're already like somewhat five minutes into the episode and we haven't given the episode summary. I know. I was wondering, did you want to do this one or shall
'The Perfect Mate' Episode Discussion
00:05:50
Speaker
I? I can do that if you want.
00:05:52
Speaker
I can do it. I think you should. Okay. I don't have the same perspective if I may just state that as a homosexual man I have a totally different take on this episode than I think you will. I think, maybe. So that's why I'm curious about your summary. That's interesting, okay? Because I have, wow, I have never even considered
00:06:18
Speaker
Um, a different sexual orientation when it comes to this episode. My mind just goes straight from- Of course, you can't- She's a woman- It's hard to- I have- I have very much considered the fact that she's not very attractive to me. Ah. Um. Phamke Jensen is like, isn't she like the epitome of like gorgeousness on a universal level? I've found that, um, apparently my taste is more for, um, how should I say this?
00:06:46
Speaker
Spicy rounder woman than like the the average Just imagine a spicy rounder version of her and you'll be like, okay, I get why this character is awesome Okay, so so like just saying if the character is essentially my wife then fine. Yeah, I can relate Episode summary, what is this season five episode 21? The perfect mate
00:07:17
Speaker
Okay, so in very original series style, the Enterprise is off to essentially negotiate an agreement between two warring factions or species or worlds or whatever. And they have an ambassador on board, which is bringing a gift. It's a yellow floating cocoon. And we don't know what it is. And then two Ferengi arrive in a snazzy looking shuttle that blows up.
00:07:44
Speaker
Two Ferengi buffoons, if I'm not sorry. Two Ferengi buffoons arrive. One of them is played by an actor who plays Rom in Deep Space Nine. But it is not Rom, it is just a Ferengi. Anyway, so their shuttle blows up, they get beamed on board. You pretty much already know they're going to, you know, be up to no good. And they are up to no good, they're trying to steal the yellow floating shiny cocoon.
00:08:09
Speaker
But that fails and backfires, they're sent to their quarters, the cocoon breaks, opens, and it is revealed that there is a woman inside. A perfect mate, but only for some. It is revealed that there is a woman inside, which is empathic, and not only that, she's been trained her entire life to essentially please men.
00:08:36
Speaker
Or is it this man specifically? No, she's pleased to- She's trained to please him specifically in that she's like made like the most educated in certain ways of her people. But her empathic abilities enable her to please pretty much anyone. Yeah, she can, yeah. And then she's in this like,
00:09:02
Speaker
third stage of pon far and she no that's not what it was okay so she comes she comes out of the cocoon prematurely which is a big problem because not only has she not like met her mate but she's also like intense intensely sexualized at this point she's she's got she's got like she's got a sex drive on on hardcore it's crazy for a family show to me it is it's very intense this is very gironoberry there's a very stevie episode
00:09:28
Speaker
This is almost as bad as the crazy six planet where Wesley falls into flowers. I was sweating. I was sweating, I'm sorry. It was like a very uncomfortable sometimes. So TNG turned the steam to 12.
00:09:48
Speaker
Anyway, so, what happens next? There's a pretty much- She goes crazy and has sex with everyone on the ship. She goes crazy. No, I'm just kidding. She tries to go crazy. She's all tempting everyone and doing whatnot, and the ambassador essentially locks her in her quarters. There's a big discussion between Beverly Crusher and- Hold on, sorry, I have to interrupt. I try not to open another man's gifts.
00:10:16
Speaker
Oh yeah, we need to talk about that. Yes, come on, sir. OK, so Picard and Beverly have this discussion about how it's immoral to have her locked up in a quarters and la-di-da. So Picard remedies to that. But simultaneously, these Ferengi schmucks, which are still around these tafoons, they managed to knock out the ambassador. Jordan, what the fuck are these Ferengi doing near me? Get them away from me right now. Absolutely.
00:10:44
Speaker
I would prefer to be surrounded by Romulans at this point. Anyway, they knocked the ambassador out, which puts Picard in a strange position where he has to essentially do everything the ambassador was doing. But he's going to be tempted by this very tempting woman, right? Metamorphosis. One might say a mutant. Ooh. Anyway, the story plays out where he is tempted.
00:11:16
Speaker
From what I understand, they do undergo this kind of mating ritual, Picard and her, where she's bonded to him. And that's a big no-no, but she says it's fine. My husband will never notice because I'm still empathic and I can still, you know, please him. It's just that she's been bonded to Picard. And then, well, it's not the trade agreement. It's like the Alliance of the Union
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, in my notes, I actually wrote this down. They're called the Kriya and the... I can't find it on my notes, so...
00:11:52
Speaker
Well, the only vault, the Kriya and the vault. And there they used to be two brothers that were they were ruling a vast kingdom and they fell in love with a woman and it tore them apart. It was very much like Helen of Troy, where the Koreans stole this lady from the vaults and then they brought her back to Kriya. And so now they've been fighting ever since the two peoples and they've grown, of course, technologically on both sides, etc, etc. So hundreds of years later,
Kamala's Character Analysis
00:12:22
Speaker
They want to try to reunite like they just want to put an end to the fighting and like kind of move on and so ceremonially they're recreating the Essentially, she's like giving Helen back to the vaults like saying okay Well here it's been a hundred years since the spirit of whoever got reincarnated here. She is it's like you know some kind of
00:12:44
Speaker
thing like that Okay, so well that's what I got. That's what I gathered. They're still able to do that They did the ceremonies is like works and then the ambassador wakes up At the end of the episode and he goes back home and he there's this very small discussion with the guy Which is how were you able to like, you know not be tempted and because it's like go home He was he was tempted but Picard doesn't lie so he didn't lie and
00:13:13
Speaker
And I don't know if I missed it, but I think that she actually, did you say she doesn't print on Picard, right? Like that was her, the thing that she was supposed to print on the guy. But the discussion, I think what they were trying to create in the discussion was, okay, so that's the episode summary. Right. Okay.
00:13:36
Speaker
Transition I think the discussion that we're supposed to have here is that she kind of this this woman Becomes the perfect mate for the like the person right and so she adapts to the person and so she would be different to you She would be different to me should be different to Picard
00:13:53
Speaker
And she'd be different to this guy that's only interested in trade agreements. And I think the argument is she's much more interesting and open-minded and better as a person, imprinted to Picard rather than this dude that is boring and dull and all about trades. And so she knows more things. She's open to more things. She's just, I suppose, and it's harsh to say this, but a better person.
00:14:23
Speaker
Or a more fulfilled person, let's say. And I think that's the idea behind it. And she can still please the guy, and she'll still fulfill her duty, and she'll still be there for this guy for, like, all of their lives. It's just that she will be a more complete person, having bonded with Picard. And I think that's the discussion they wanted to have.
00:14:42
Speaker
I think you're right, and the episode's so intricate and nuanced in some ways, and so silly in other ways. It's so funny, there's really good themes presented here. You like this episode. What's that? You like this episode. I'm saving it for the end of our discussion.
00:15:04
Speaker
No, yes. Okay. I did like this episode. Okay. I'm not a fan of this episode. I don't inherently hate it. I'm just bored by it because this isn't the kind of television that I usually watch. I just, you know, it's TNG so I watch it. I think it's very soap opera.
00:15:20
Speaker
The episode is like more like a soap opera than it is like a you know Bold adventure show on TV So I do think that the episodes of departure in that way from like what you'd expect Even from TNG, but I think I think I didn't like it before I'm pretty sure that like it's an episode that I skipped
00:15:40
Speaker
When I was really watching, you know, or like that, you know, I was like, I would be maybe perhaps doing other things while it was on. So one of the things I love about these rewatches is it forces me to kind of, you know, knowing that I have to take notes and come here and talk about it with you, I have to, I have to sit down and actually watch it.
00:15:56
Speaker
sit down and actually pay attention to every single episode. And I found a lot of value in it this time, but I think a lot of it has to do with just something that happened before in our discussion on the Wesley
00:16:11
Speaker
Starfleet Academy episode is I found myself just being like really fond of seeing Fompka Jensen and And Patrick Stewart like meeting as actors for the first time You know, I mean like and they work together later on and then there was that like reference of the mutant She's like I'm a mutant some might say and I'm like, oh my god. Okay, so you're fond of the how should I put this I
00:16:35
Speaker
The irony, I guess, of like how what they would later, because of course the X-Men series comes after this, so it's like at this point they had no idea. Yeah, not too far after, because X-Men 1 is like 2000, right? Yeah, and I thought the chemistry between the two actors was really good in this episode, like I may not agree with all the kind of like, you know,
00:16:57
Speaker
The story points being interesting or anything like that, but at least the performances I thought between so in in universe this episode is kind of eh But in in the real like it's full of cultural references, which is fun. Oh
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. And it like kind of makes it, it doesn't, it might, it might not get me to watch it again ever, but knowing it, like having watched it once, you're like, Oh, that's cool. Like there's all these things. Okay. It's like having a guest star, um, that like Dwayne the Rock Johnson, right? Plays in an episode of Voyager. Exactly. Even if someone doesn't like the episode, you'll just still go back and watch it because there's the rock and it's funny, right?
00:17:41
Speaker
It's funny, exactly. So I do think that that's the case. There is, I don't know if you did your research any further, it's not required for Starfleet Boy, just FYI, you don't ever have to do research. Starfleet Boy, if anyone out there is like nervous, don't be nervous. You don't have to do research, the computer knows everything.
Pop Culture References
00:18:05
Speaker
Your theory is absolutely broken.
00:18:09
Speaker
It's true Tim O'Connor the actor who played the ambassador is like a legend or was he I believe he passed away But he was on a show that I used to watch called Buck Rogers in the 25th century And if you ever get a chance, do you know this? I will have you know mister I'm a huge fan of The Looney Tunes is Doc Dodgers
00:18:33
Speaker
And so at the time when I was very young and when I used to what this used to like be on television There's like maybe 2005 something I would watch this and I was like duck dodges and then I like everything in the show is a reference all the time everything In duck dodges is a constant reference There's nothing on screen or that you hear isn't a reference to something that already exists from like they even have the same Communicator sounds as the original series. They like every ship is like a basically a Klingon ship with a Martian in it and
00:19:02
Speaker
And they even have like a crossover with the Green Lantern. Anyway. Oh wow. And so I thought... I didn't even know... I don't remember Duck Dodgers. That's funny. It's amazing. Anyway, this show is called Duck Dodger. Well they have this Aquaman guy. He's called Seaman.
00:19:18
Speaker
And they mock the fact that all of his conflicts are always aquatic based. And so he uses the word aquatic too much. He's like, I'm glad we could settle our aquatic differences. It's hilarious. Anyway, I was sure that I was convinced that Doc Dodges was a reference to something. And so I looked it up when I was younger. I was like, oh my God, Buck Rogers. And so I watched not an episode of snippets.
00:19:43
Speaker
I couldn't, like, I was very young, I couldn't just sit down and watch any episode of Buck Rogers come on. But, um, I did watch snippets of it, and I was like, oh, this is very early science fiction, right? Yeah, well, not early, early, but like, it was, I think Buck Rogers was a response to, after Star Wars came out, I guess it's early cool science fiction, that's what it is, you're right.
00:20:06
Speaker
Before this I think science fiction you saw the strings like pulling the ships and like, you know, it was really Yeah, it's true But Buck Rogers was in the 80s 1980s to like 1985 and and when I got home from school it was on reruns on television like and so I would watch it and there was like a hawk man and there was like, you know, of course it had like a
00:20:33
Speaker
There's a 1950 to 51 television series. Yeah, that's like the serials Buck Rogers. So Buck Rogers is like super old. It's like, yeah, it's like from comic books and stuff like that. But funny thing is Buck Rogers from the 25th century, is it? And yeah, Doc Dodges is from the 24th and one half century.
00:20:52
Speaker
And I love how they take the time to say that. They've got like Tom Jones singing the theme for Duck Dodgers. Oh, really? Singing. Like actual Tom Jones? Yeah, actual Tom Jones. Singing that he's from the 24th and one half century. It's just. All right. Now you have. Now, before we end the Duck Dodgers segment, you have to sing the theme.
00:21:13
Speaker
Um, I forgot how it goes. Frozen, in time and space. Something like that. Hey Siri, play the theme to Duck Dodgers.
00:21:28
Speaker
It is a shit device I'm sorry Should we get right to our notes there we can okay Okay, so first of all racist Riker
00:21:48
Speaker
because he doesn't want the Ferengi anywhere near his quarters. Oh my gosh, that's true. He says, find them some quarters far away from mine. So I'm like, okay. Is that my sister? Does he know that he's just annoyed by Ferengi in general?
00:22:03
Speaker
But is that no racist? I know it's probably racist. It is, isn't it? I think it is. But I think it was... I think it was correct. I think TNG made it correct to be racist towards Ferengi because they were just like jokes, right? But then... Oh my goodness. DS9 remedied that. Anyway, so racist comment. It's true.
00:22:20
Speaker
Also, that whole thing that you mentioned with Ryker, where he's like, I don't open another woman's gift, another man's gift. So he's being all tempted and horny with this woman, right? And then he's like, no, I don't do this.
00:22:37
Speaker
And then he walks out of the quarters and then he can't take someone and then he goes to the holodeck. Okay, so in my notes, I have, did Raka go fuck a holographic woman? Like, did he just... Yeah, that's what's happening. I think he did. I think 100% minuet. I'm sure there's a minuet program that it's too steamy to show on television. So does he? Okay, so in Quarks, right, when you do this in Deep Space Nine, when you go to the...
00:23:04
Speaker
the Holosuites and Quarks, I suppose you have a lot. It's all about it. Yeah. That's all about the sex programs. I suppose he has a hallway, like a darkly lit hallway with sex rooms. And then there's another side where like Jake can go and do rafting or whatever. Um, I think the Holosuites all look the same, but that it just changes depending on who's like, you could go into a hall. They call them Holosuites.
00:23:28
Speaker
I know, but I would assume that Quark is respectable enough to preserve hall of sweets to the sexual activities and have like, like, cause you know, you don't want to get, it's not like, wait, you're thinking like of like possibly you're thinking of like, like, uh, you know, that they don't have sound proof walls. And I would imagine that you have no idea what's going on.
00:23:48
Speaker
He would have to disinfect the holosuite after each passage, right? No, the computer does it. Don't you remember in the episode where the Irish people came aboard the Enterprise? So you can go and have a picnic with your family in the same holosuite. Next somewhere and someone's having an orgy. It's true. In the same one that we just had an orgy like 10 minutes before. What a fantastic future.
00:24:13
Speaker
Amazing. It's a weird future, but you wouldn't know. So, Ryker's situation is different. You take a hollow shower after your hollow sex, you get redressed and you leave the hollows. Your hology is nothing. It's gone. You know, Ryker does this on the Enterprise, so I hope there's like a locking mechanism, because in no episode have we shown that it's been locked.
00:24:34
Speaker
I think during private episodes, I bet you they have ratings, and I bet you if you had walked up to the holodeck during this particular
Themes of Intelligence and Humor
00:24:45
Speaker
session of Rikers, it would have said, the holodeck is set to private mode.
00:24:50
Speaker
You know, or something like that. And then Picard would be like, I need to speak to him. Override him. Override me. Dear Lord. Commander. Me too. Gets all mad.
00:25:06
Speaker
Oh, we went to places that I thought were not possible. We did. This is the Drunk Space Nine episode. But it's not our fault. The episode is like this anyway. This is an episode that would be perfect to do a Drunk Space Nine crossover. Last time I'm drinking water though. This is not very child appropriate.
00:25:26
Speaker
And I'm not talking about our podcast, I'm talking about the... Yeah, ours is... We do put the warning on our podcast, by the way, but... Oh, okay. But TNG did not. No. Well, they're a bit like... They should have warned people. This episode was... I mean, you were getting all steamed up.
00:25:46
Speaker
Well now as an adult, but as a child, I thought probably that it was really boring. Yeah I was probably like this is one of those episode where the fring ear just being annoying and
00:26:02
Speaker
It's Captain Picard's in love and I wish she was in love with Beverly not this lady Which by the way the scenes with so and from my notes All the scenes with Beverly in this episode are super charming to me I just thought that like it was it was great. They're having they have breakfast together every morning That it's cool. This is a prequel to the Picard show
00:26:27
Speaker
I, yes, I just want, that's, it's true, it's so true. Someone's going to have to do a super cut of every Picard and Beverly scene from TNG. So then you can watch that before the Picacho comes out. Do you hear that? At the real Cat Walski?
00:26:46
Speaker
We have a request for you, please. Can you please do a Jean-Luc and Beverly supercut? I wonder if that exists already. I don't know. This is assuming Beverly Crusher will even be in the Picard series.
00:27:06
Speaker
I mean, I don't know how she can't be. But anyways, they just think they killed Picard's family in generations, like off screen in a fire. They might do the same thing to everyone from DNG, right? Where's my old crew? They all died in a fire.
00:27:22
Speaker
I hope that the trailer has a version of a classic song sung really slowly with a guitar and an aging singer of some sort. It would be cool if... Oh, you know who... Mick Jagger. If Mick Jagger sang the theme song through the trailer of the Picard show as we have scenes of Captain Picard racing across the galaxy to visit his... I think a flute. A flute would be more appropriate.
00:27:52
Speaker
Just like a flute solo. I play the flute every day now. Or his recican flute, actually, yes. Anyways, we are so digressing on this. Sean, you're like not focused at all on this episode. I can't. I can't. I'm sorry, go ahead. Can I just get you my name? You enjoyed the episode. You get to speak.
00:28:13
Speaker
Jordy, when he's trying to take the Ferengi away from the turbolift, mentions you have to come see the dolphins. And as we know, the enterprise has cetaceans on board that are used for navigation, like some sort of navigational assistance, which is really fascinating to me. I don't know if you think that's cool, but they mentioned it. So if you needed a canonical reference to the dolphins, it's in this episode, and I think that's kind of awesome.
00:28:43
Speaker
Who came up with this? What's that? Who came up with it? In the technical manual, which I have here somewhere. Yeah, but why?
00:28:54
Speaker
I think that after the USS Enterprise D need dolphins to do anything. This is what at any given time. This is speculation, but I actually have an answer for you. Theory craft zone. This is the theory craft zone. Yes. I think that after the probe came to Earth in Kirk's time and like nearly evaporated the oceans.
00:29:17
Speaker
and cause all that trouble on earth after the whales were restored like the federation were like we gotta like start communicating I mean these are obviously intelligent species let's figure out a way to start communicating with them and so I think that as a as like a
00:29:33
Speaker
Star Trek totally doesn't say it does, but in my headcanon, if you will, it's like the dolphins and the cetaceans and the humans are learning how to communicate with each other, so they have crewmen or workers on the Enterprise that happen to be dolphins, and I think that's kind of awesome. Why is it okay to have aliens that are intelligent, but like species on our own planet, why do we think that they're not intelligent enough to communicate with or learn how to communicate
Empathy and Cultural Critique
00:29:57
Speaker
with? That's what I think. I don't know.
00:30:00
Speaker
But they do refer to dogs and stuff as lesser species. Is it lesser or lower? Lesser species. I don't know if they said, I don't know what they said on the, but they've referred to them as differently. But dolphins, we're finding like today, in today's like world and in our own science, we do recognize, in fact, India, if I'm not mistaken, recognize dolphins in particular as non-human persons. So they're acknowledged to be persons, like actual like,
00:30:28
Speaker
Uh, you know, whatever makes a person a person, but just non-human. So I think it's kind of an interesting time that we're, India is a particular country in the sense that like they don't prosecute rapists.
00:30:43
Speaker
Fine. So does their opinion on dolphins really count? In America we tend not to, we're not going to go political, but in America the same problem tends to happen. We don't prosecute people who are doing atrocious crimes. So on that note, dolphins are rapists. What? Which is very true. You can look this up.
00:31:06
Speaker
They're culturally rapists? They have a culture of rape? This episode is getting weirder than I've ever thought of. Dolphins feel pleasure when they have sex, and so they rape. They not only rape other dolphins, but they can rape other species as well. And they're so intelligent, in fact, that they can actually gang up on a smaller dolphin in order to make sure that that smaller dolphin doesn't run away.
00:31:30
Speaker
They're terrible, they're a terrible species. They're very close to us. We should probably just eat them all and we should do the same with human rapists. Eat human rapists? I'm not sure about that. Yeah, just consume them. We can make them into soylent green. It'll be great. We can feed so many people that are hungry. It's a great source of protein human.
00:31:51
Speaker
Soylent Green is a terrible movie. Alright, the next thing I wrote down, wow, I didn't know you were going to attack me on my dolphin thing. Thanks a lot. Thanks for ruining my image of dolphins as like wonderfully intelligent creatures and like now I'll never think of them as anything. I'm sure there were very intelligent, very smart dolphins that don't rape us. I'm sure there were dolphins that don't rape other dolphins. There were surely dolphins that defend others.
00:32:17
Speaker
If I may offer you some advice as a non-parent when it's time to teach your daughter about dolphins, please leave out the rape. Don't scare her about dolphins.
00:32:35
Speaker
get off my bridge done wow we already talked about how metamorphs are mutants and I like that never open another's men's gifts is something we already talked about let's see what else
00:32:53
Speaker
I also had the note if you need me I'll be in holodeck for so we're on the same this is how we got from holodecks to like rapist dolphins in like three minutes Let me bring this back, right? Okay. The only thing I found worthy of interest from these two species that we meet Isn't even regarding their own species It's that the makeup that they use for one of those species will be makeup that they use for the chills later on and
00:33:21
Speaker
Oh yeah, both of them actually. They're actually the same species is what I got because at the end in the wedding scene she has the marks and so does he and so does Tim O'Connor. But yeah, I actually wrote that down too. Are these like distant cousins of the trills perhaps? Could be an explanation. Technically, I know that a lot of people say that they retcon the trills because we have a different trill in TNG. Right, with Dr. Crusher. I don't see why we could like
00:33:51
Speaker
Does it have to be a Raycon? By the way, that's going to be a steamy episode two with Dr. Crusher. I mean, every episode with Crusher gets steamed, doesn't it? It's true. There's like a lot of- There's like a ghost rape situation as well? Oh my goodness. There's a lot of rape on Star Trek now that I'm thinking that it's terrible. Deanna Troi gets mind raped quite often. It's crazy.
00:34:16
Speaker
Hmm something to think about Perhaps She seduces Picard with archaeology She does I mean that's that's some sexual stuff in there
00:34:29
Speaker
It was good, I like that scene. Let's see, I thought, okay, come on, did you think, I love how you're like just done, just hang in with me for like at least the hour and then I'll let you do it. It's fine, it's fine, it's okay. I enjoyed this much more than what I enjoyed the episode. You're like, I can't be the only one that doesn't like it. No, you can't, I'm sure, I think, okay, so if I'm not mistaken, when I spoke to the doctor,
00:34:57
Speaker
He doesn't like this. Yeah, he didn't like this episode either. Okay, that would've been very entertaining to have him just sit there. I know. And like, just, I don't know. He wouldn't have said anything. He would've just like, exhaled for the entire episode, right? I think I'd give him a lot of stress. When I try to defend episodes, he thinks they're terrible. But I like it. Hey, you like what you like, right? Last time he got up.
00:35:24
Speaker
He walked away when you gave you a rating. I mean, that says something. He's not really on Twitter, but I imagine if you had to take a Twitter tantrum and make it real, that that's what it would look like. See, Twitter's nothing new.
00:35:52
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Why is there no Twitter in the 23rd century? That's what I really want to know. I mean 24th century. There probably is. People are probably aware of what their favorite artists are doing at any given time. Because I'm sure there's still singers and entertainers and actors. There must be actors because the hollow industry must be something huge, right?
00:36:15
Speaker
And also, yeah, because, yeah. Also, I could live. We have no idea what they're doing. We have no idea what they're doing on their pads. Like they could be on Twitter. Like they're walking around. You think they're like reading schematics for like, we all think that everyone is like hard at work, but they're not. They're all just scrolling.
00:36:37
Speaker
space maybe it's like real real life and actually there's no real way to tell when they're on duty or off duty because everyone just goes to ten forward in their uniforms these are all questions oh my god those people in ten forward what what was that oh yeah that was the most cringy terrible horrible scene
00:36:57
Speaker
I didn't like that. I thought it was a great way to show how she can kind of adapt to her audience, if you will, because like she, again, and I have to say that like, okay, the growl was fun. The growl was fun that she did. She goes, that was fun. But before that, all of those, those, it's just like, oh, what, like we need a band of ruffians, right? And so that's,
00:37:18
Speaker
Let's just find ourselves some space miners. Why the hell are they on the Enterprise? They were like miners, right? They tried to justify it later on because Picard says there are plenty of civilians on my ship. And other guests and civilians. Guests and civilians. I cannot control them all.
00:37:35
Speaker
But even though it's done badly, think about that. We don't actually see that a lot on the show, but I guess it's cool to be conscious of it. Yeah, the enterprise is always carrying some crazy-ass people. I agree that it's cool that. That is cool that we see that there are these crazy-ass people, but it was executed in such a terrible way.
00:37:55
Speaker
You kind of like that scene. I'll give you, yeah, I agree. You can see what I like. It's hard to say that I like the whole scene, but yes, I do like aspects of the scene. And I did think that the space miners were kind of dumb. So yes, I agree.
00:38:11
Speaker
And even Data's dumb. Like, the dude says the replicator's malfunctioning. I will go fix the replicator. What the hell? Come on, Data. I think I would have liked the scene better if we got a moment where, like, um, um, the char- Famka Kamala, the character, uh, actually, like, maybe even got into a fight with one of them and, like, punched them out or something. I don't know, but that's just me. Oh, my God. But then you would have had, like, a very, very aroused, um, Klingon wolf standing back there would have been all over that.
00:38:43
Speaker
She could have probably taken a wharf too. I think come on. Oh, come on. She couldn't have taken a wharf. Like, raw physical strength, I don't think she, she maybe had the techniques, maybe, but um...
00:38:55
Speaker
You touched upon in your summary the one thing I do think that the episode gets credit for is that you do see Kamala kind of I wish that like again if you know this is one of those wishes that you express because only because you know newer things but like for back then I think it's pretty awesome that you were able to do what you were able to do with Star Trek but
00:39:17
Speaker
Through the course of the episode, there is an attempt and I think it's successful in showing Kamala starting out as just not really having a personality or a direction or any kind of focus. And when she starts to have more encounters with Captain Picard,
00:39:34
Speaker
you could see her kind of like line up with him to become his perfect mate as she does. And ironically, as you also said in the summary, by the way, great summary, I forgot to tell you. But as you said in the summary, also, she ends up being a perfect mate to Chancellor
00:39:53
Speaker
what the hell, Alric, she ends up being his perfect mate because now that she has like the kind of characteristics that we admire about Picard and what she like kind of absorbed, if you will, from him, she's actually going to end up being like a great leader alongside Alric. And maybe even perhaps as many times happens, like we as a civilization often are enamored of the, you know, these like great leaders who maybe aren't
00:40:23
Speaker
Uh, maybe you're the wife of, you know, the president, if you will, you know, or something like that. So it's a cool aspect of it was also cool. Okay. Um, I don't even know how to put this. I'm just trying a simple words as best I can. Um, essentially.
00:40:43
Speaker
The whole deal with her is like if she bonds with a person then she becomes like for that person right and then so she essentially acquires the knowledge and what have you for that person and that becomes permanent. And in the beginning when she emerges she's kind of all
00:41:04
Speaker
You know, sexually intense and she's wanting everyone. Doesn't in the back of her mind, does she know that if she would have bonded with the first person that she found, like if she bonded with like that Ferengi guy, straight up.
00:41:16
Speaker
Do you think she has enough restraint to say, I can't do this. This is not good. Do you think she was willingly bonded with Picard because she knew it was a better choice? I don't know if the episode explicitly states that, but I love what you just said. I think that's actually absolutely what's happening. It's my take for sure on that.
00:41:41
Speaker
yeah for sure that's really cool but i do think that like that's also wonderful it's a sad episode in a sense from a character perspective because picard like he here's this guy who's like already he as a character we've already seen from him that he has real trouble like
00:41:58
Speaker
you know, crossing that boundary between captain and friend. And in this episode, like another scene that I loved was when he's like, you know, it was kind of tongue in cheek and Beverly says something, but he's like, Beverly, may I take off the uniform for a moment?
00:42:13
Speaker
Like you could tell that even though Beverly is like his best friend, he still shows restraint around her and is always conscious of like being the captain. And I think that like Riker and Deanna never do. I mean, they know when to be professional, but when they're together, they're together, right? And they're like, be as friends or as lovers, depending on, you know, I suppose the circumstance, whether or not they want, they want some, but yeah, they, they, they take off the uniform per se every time.
00:42:43
Speaker
They are just who they are. But Picard doesn't do that. And here in this episode, I thought, again, these are kind of cool little, for all it's worth, one of the benefits of watching, and we've talked about this before, so I'm just saying it because I think it's a cool theme that we keep running across. Even though this episode's not going to go up there as one of the best episodes of TNG,
00:43:07
Speaker
uh it does add some value when you're watching the whole series like you do see these like there are all every episode of tng if you if you watch it bring some extra little color to your knowledge of this world of these characters of star trek and i kind of i think that's great like i do think it's done better today like i feel like every episode
Star Trek's Modern Influence
00:43:27
Speaker
of a series when it's really good these days is packed with all those things like it's just balanced really well as you also often you know reference when you're talking about stuff which by the way
00:43:41
Speaker
I do have to do a shout out to Sabrina. I never even knew about Sabrina from the Archie comics. I never watched the comedy series. I kind of missed it. I was like too old, I suppose, when that started airing. So Sabrina the Teenage Witch, I totally missed out on.
00:44:02
Speaker
Impression of Sabrina was the snapflix series and it was actually quite Quite fun to watch it was like a good show. So I used to watch that. I used to watch the animated series So when I was very young, I wasn't too much a fan of live-action series that that weren't Star Trek And so I used to watch the animated series of Sabrina, but then I've never been like a huge fan I have a friend who has a cat named Salem So he's a fan, but I'm not
00:44:31
Speaker
And I've only heard positive reactions up to this point. Yeah, I think... In my circle, I'm getting some mixed things, but sorry. Kowalski said that it was... I think he used the word alright, and he's looking forward to season two. Which, I mean, he's pretty critical. He's pretty harsh, just like me. And so, if Nick says it's alright, then...
00:45:01
Speaker
I'm going to go with all right. It's definitely not a family show. I'll just say that. They did pretty much. It's like TV 14, I think it is. They made a point of saying that it wasn't. It's not your average teenage witch. No, no. It's a very interesting take, I think, on what even the original was perhaps like without knowing it. I say that. What else? Let's see. I think I got all my points out.
00:45:31
Speaker
Do you have anything else to say about this episode? Not really. I don't want to hate, but I did note that the transporter chief, the acting wasn't very convincing in that scene.
00:45:47
Speaker
Oh, you know what I found about so I noted something too, but it was a different thing It sounded like the sound was dubbed separately like she sounded more Processed that like she didn't sound like she was in the environment to me and I remember being confused by that. Yeah, I took it being bad acting but maybe it is like a technical difficulty that they had
00:46:10
Speaker
Maybe she had to re-record her audio or something and so it's not as it's not as blended or mastered or whatever. Yeah It's not as natural right? So okay interesting that we noted the same thing and I have ingots. Oh, no, okay She has clothes. It frustrates me that she emerges with clothes
00:46:33
Speaker
Oh yeah? Okay, not that I wanted to see a naked or anything. It's just that it seems like she's coming out of this cocoon, right? And I don't understand why she has clothes.
00:46:46
Speaker
I feel like because she was supposed to be presented like you saw how spectacular I think the cocoon the stasis chamber if I had to guess was like designed to be spectacular like it was this light like you know they could have been a pod like a torpedo they could have used a torpedo but she wasn't grown in it she's been living her life they put her inside and then they want to pull her out
00:47:09
Speaker
And they're going to pull her out so that she could do the jahama raha with her guy. But that's not even what it was called, I know. She's been edging for 50 days.
00:47:32
Speaker
We need to talk about what you said in the beginning of the episode actually. Now that we've got all the fun and ridiculous stuff out of the way, you need to talk about... What did I say? You said that you were going to have a different perspective on this episode. Oh yeah, I just thought that way. Because of your orientation and I'm interested in that.
00:47:51
Speaker
I thought that it was interesting. A couple things of note came out of this episode. The ambassador, who by the way is 200 years old, says that like metamorphs are very common on their world as males.
00:48:07
Speaker
That metaphor females are very rare, and I just thought like the reason I said like I was curious I think what I probably was trying to say is that I was curious about your reaction Because to me like funky Jensen is beautiful But I don't understand like sexual attraction like I'm very much attracted to masculine things so like I don't like
00:48:30
Speaker
understand like exactly things like her dress her gown I could tell it was meant to be like super revealing as you could see like very like you know provocative contours of her body in it right but at the same time I was like if a dude was dressed that way I would totally find it repulsive I like you know I would like be more attracted to like a dude in jeans or like you know like a t-shirt I don't know it was kind of an interesting thing so
00:48:58
Speaker
It does go to show that. In a way heterosexuality has always been alien to me. So whenever they do these episodes where it's very heteronormative, where it's like this person's out of control sexy, I just like, I'm like, oh, I wonder what's like sexy about that. Like, what would be, what would it, you know, what would it be? Like they explain it in the episode with the pheromones and everything like that. But I've seen like, you know, men react to women wearing things like this and I just don't understand it. Okay.
00:49:23
Speaker
As a person that is usually not like I'm not sexually attracted to like the I dare say the average white American woman I'm more attracted by people that resemble my wife, right? I've never been
00:49:39
Speaker
head over heels with the people that they present as very sexy and stuff, right? Like, mudsy woman. I'm like, eh, you know, it's just... Right, right. But I get the idea that they're trying to convey. It's more like, okay, she's supposed to be the sexy girl, you know, and I use that to, like, understand the episode, like, okay.
00:50:02
Speaker
She's the sexy girl in the context of this episode. Even if I'm not attracted to her, you have to imagine what if I was, right? What if she was attractive to me? But it is interesting. This episode goes to show that it was very much written by a lot of heterosexual males, right?
00:50:35
Speaker
instead of saying oh sometimes we have women that are like empathic and like this sometimes we have a lot of times we have men you could say we have men women and we have this kind of third um undefined gender which is like the this third gender that comes out every now and then they're empathic and they can change their their their gender um depending on like who they're trying to attract and so they could also that would have been wild
00:50:38
Speaker
I think so.
00:51:01
Speaker
Yeah, and so you were too little to contribute to that writing. You weren't even born. No, I wasn't. This is like 1996. Anyway, so in the room with me, she would have been like a woman that I find attractive, but then in the room with you, she would have become a man that you found attractive.
00:51:21
Speaker
That would have been an amazing twist and I think that's cool, yeah. Alas, that might have been too provocative, even though this episode pushes the limits, it may have been too provocative for the time that it aired. It would have been a lot more difficult because you would need to cast a lot of actors as well.
00:51:40
Speaker
Do you think since we're on this asking questions about the story, which I thought your questions are very good, I have a question for you. Do you think that Captain Picard sort of gave himself permission to
00:51:56
Speaker
maybe pursue her a little bit after he met Chancellor Alric, because I think in the scene. He felt condescending, right? Or a little like, I think, it felt like he found the guy boring and bland, and he thought, eh, you know, she might be better off with me anyway. And then he was like, well, I wasn't going to mess with her before, but now that I see he's an absolute idiot. But now that I've met this boring man, he's boring, yeah, he's all about his trade agreements. I mean, come on.
00:52:26
Speaker
I'm much better. I'm all about my old artifacts. Yeah, I know. I kind of felt that. I kind of did. But I mean, he's a bad boy in this episode, isn't he? What's that? Picard's a bad boy in this episode. He does something very wrong. And then at the end, when the ambassador like asks him, he's like, I have a safe trip home.
00:52:49
Speaker
He doesn't want to tell him. I know. He's like, yeah, this is actually one of the bad things that Picard did. He shouldn't have done that. Well, I mean, in all honesty, all that happens is he steals a kiss and then she bonds with him. They didn't like, right? Because Riker stole a kiss too. Yeah. But like he steals the last kiss.
00:53:13
Speaker
in her bonding, but also, I mean, uh, there's, there is evidence that Picard will not hesitate to open another man's gift. Oh my goodness. She, uh, but you could tell she's like, even though she's like, you know, in this like hypersexual, uh, state because of her condition, you know, of biology, uh,
00:53:41
Speaker
I guess humans go through a minor version of this, but like, Vulcans go through it too, I guess. But anyways, um, Heat. She's in Heat, basically, or whatever. But like, I think that from the beginning of the episode, she is charmed by Captain Picard's kind of authority and also him coming to the rescue, to her defense, when even though she's totally like, you have nothing to worry about, I'm not doing this against my will.
00:54:10
Speaker
Hmm She's still charmed by his like attempts at like, you know preserving her liberty and stuff like that so I think that like kind of even though she is like very free in terms of like her Loyalties at this point or her attractions. I think that she's still showing signs of being very attractive to cats attracted to Captain Picard From the beginning and I think there's even
00:54:34
Speaker
times we're like in the episode where she even says things like I recall like lines like you know I didn't ask you back to my quarters like she's just like a very like she's just very interested in him and he's trying really hard to like reject her or keep her at bay because he doesn't want to like interfere with her culture but at the same time like he's not allowing himself to to have a friend which is I think what what she wants and I do hope that an old man Picard funk agency
00:55:01
Speaker
Make this sound a lot more nuanced than what I initially thought it was. Like, when you watch the episode, it doesn't feel as nuanced as what you're, like, the way you're describing it. Oh, really? Yeah, to me, to me at least, you're making this episode a lot more, um, I don't know how to, well, nuanced, I suppose. But then, what I, like, when I was watching it, it was just like, I don't know, Picard doesn't want to get his bang on, and then he does.
00:55:26
Speaker
And that's it. But... But do you see my point? I do. I do. It's very interesting. Okay, cool. Cool. Your point is more interesting than the episode.
00:55:36
Speaker
or perhaps you need to rewatch it again. There was more racism in this episode, I found. What was that? Or is it just, is it not racism? Is it just like cliches? But she says, you can't stop me from being this over-sexualized woman, right? She says, can you stop a Klingon from being violent? And then she says something else about some other rate, a Vulcan from being logical. And it's like, well, that's kind of a generalization, isn't it?
00:56:06
Speaker
It's true, but in Star Trek, I think those stereotypes, I think that's what they actually are, are promoted. Human as what? Are promoted constantly. Is it arrogance? Well, even we as fans, don't you expect Vulcans to be logical? I mean, we don't get the new ones until Enterprise, where you realize, oh yeah, they're logical, but there are Vulcan extremists that take logic and twist it, and stuff like that. Is this not racist? Is it more like there's an established kind of,
00:56:33
Speaker
Way of this right there's a way of stereotyping species in the galaxy, but it's not a
Discovery's Impact and Fandom
00:56:40
Speaker
bad thing It's just like well generally speaking Klingons are violent generally speaking Vulcans are logical and Klingons being violent isn't necessarily a bad thing because I mean they're violent in it in their own sexual Ways right, but it's not ready to it. They're aggressive. Yeah. Yeah, that's hot
00:57:01
Speaker
Humans are what? Arrogant? That's how I define humans. Really? How would you describe them? I think they use compassionate. That's what they use in Star Trek, I think.
00:57:15
Speaker
I think we humans, you are hopefully one of them. And if you're an alien, it's time to come out of your alien closet here live on TV and let the audience know. But just assuming you're a human, I think humans are defined as being mostly curious.
00:57:37
Speaker
and and perhaps Compassionate an area one word one word you can find one word. That's not okay. That's that's cheating Why do humans get everything and then all these other species always get one word? No, I that is a critique that I do have a Star Trek. I do think that is true I don't think that one word For a human yeah, and don't say stupid or something
00:58:03
Speaker
Curious maybe. Okay. Curious, I think is like the most, the most, uh, appropriate word for you. And remember, curiosity often kills. Okay. I have a heavy question. I think it's heavy. Um, which is my, my, my, my last big note, my last big question, right? The attraction is real.
00:58:31
Speaker
And I'm not saying between Picard and this woman specifically, but like two people in this context, like the person that comes out, the person that's empathic and that is adaptive to another person. The attraction is real, but is the emotion real? Like is it true love or is it just manufactured?
00:58:56
Speaker
Because when you truly love someone and you're in a relationship with that person for many, many years that you feel fulfilled because the attraction and the love is real, it's not manufactured. It's not like the person who wasn't bred to be your lover. You found each other.
00:59:18
Speaker
I think Picard references in the episode that arranged marriages were practiced on earth and that's because like in that one argument with Beverly over breakfast she's like she's like the guy's like a slave slave trafficker sex trafficker whatever she's really like she's really mad she's really mad and his argument
00:59:41
Speaker
I think we can expand upon that discussion to answer your question, because the argument there that he uses that arranged marriages are, were common practice in on earth. He doesn't say specifically where, but we know as current humans, it's like we associate that with like India and you know, like, you know, some some Persian Arab nations as well, still practice a form of arranged marriage. Nowadays, arranged marriages will practice
01:00:11
Speaker
All over the world all over the world. Yeah at one point. It's true I will say that like I think that like that's the only context we as humans could possibly have to understand the situation because ultimately like you know, we're
01:00:30
Speaker
we're like, even with the arranged marriage thing, humans just don't work that way. You know what I mean? Like we don't like have the empathic abilities that she has. Like she, she claims in this one scene that Riker is more empathic than he probably knows. But even Riker's empathy is as it might be more evolved for like, he might be pushing it to the limits of what a human can do because of his associations with Deanna and her training and stuff like that.
01:00:57
Speaker
what happened but he still doesn't have nearly I mean like she's like intuitive in a way that like is insane like she can just like spend like moments with you and figure you out and then like present like you with your perfect scenario. Which is completely alien to us.
01:01:28
Speaker
What's that? We ain't got no mutants yet.
01:01:30
Speaker
Ah, or do we? But all right, so I think I'm going to call it. I think this was a really good episode of Starfleet Boy. And now we have to come and see what our ratings were. And then you'll have to confess if your rating went up. I think it might have because of our discussion. I have a feeling it might have gone up a little bit, but I could be wrong.
01:01:53
Speaker
But I'll go first as per tradition, and I give this episode a seven. I'm compelled to give it a seven. I actually- Seven? What? I actually- Do I stand up? Do I do like the doctor? Do I run away? No, don't have a- What is this? Seven. I really enjoyed it. Oh my god. I think, and I think my, like, to be honest, I was gonna start out and give it a six, but I think talking about it, like, at least for me, and that's why I'm- How much did you give the best of both worlds, right? Ten. Okay.
01:02:23
Speaker
How is this only three points away though? We've stated this on Starfleet Boy many times also. The ratings are just in the moment. They're not like necessarily, yours are. So when database one goes and compiles ratings, which I'm sure you've been writing all these ratings down, right? In your log. Cause you have like a huge date rank. I don't write yours. Yours, yours means nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Mine means nothing, but at least you. I've compiled mine.
01:02:53
Speaker
So, all right, present your rating, good sir. Let's hear it. Three. Wow! Did it go up? No. Did it go up? No. Oh my gosh, a three? I think you're just angry. Why? Why am I angry? You're just angry that I gave it a seven. I think you changed your rating to a three. I didn't. You were gonna give it a four. It says three on my screen. Oh my gosh. I'm reading three.
01:03:23
Speaker
That's terrible. This episode does not deserve a three. It does not deserve a seven. Well, okay. Well, thank goodness our combined ratings bring it down to a five. Right? That's fair. Well, I mean, I need the doctor. Contact the doctor so that he can give it like a one.
01:03:49
Speaker
You win this round because we didn't have, I think Nick doesn't like this episode either. Yeah, but it only counts what's on the air. It's just you and me, buddy. And you're fortunate because Trekkie Rob was supposed to be on this episode and I know he would have given it a higher rating. I know it, Rob. Yes, Rob would have loved this episode. There has to be something that Trekkie Rob doesn't like, right? There has to be some episodes that he doesn't enjoy.
01:04:17
Speaker
He doesn't like haters. I'm just kidding. I'm speaking for you, Trekkie Rob. Just kidding. Just kidding. I'm intrigued. You know what? I'm going to ask him in our group chat. We're going to do a poll. What episode do you actually not like? I wonder if he does not like an episode.
01:04:37
Speaker
I'm sure there is that one, and I think it would be interesting to make sure we book Rob for that episode. I don't think I liked, if you go back to early Starfleet boy, season one gets a bunch of twos and threes from me. Oh, season one is ass, isn't it? But see, that's what I'm saying. From season one to now, I think the average episode value goes up. Oh, can I go on a rent?
01:04:58
Speaker
Yes, you can go to the rants. Can I do a rant? The podcast audience lives for the rants. Oh, really? Okay. I'm told. That's what I'm told. People are constantly, like, people are saying, oh, we should excuse Discoveries season one.
01:05:18
Speaker
because look at TNG and how it got better over time. And I find it a completely stupid argument because saying TNG Season 1 was terrible, excuses Discovery Season 1 for being terrible, that's not a thing. Discovery Season 1 isn't good, and TNG Season 1 isn't good, and that doesn't make them both better.
01:05:41
Speaker
I think it just means that they're both bad. It does mean that maybe Discovery has the potential to get better the same way TNG did, but it will never excuse the first season. I think that the whole problem is, and we face it
01:06:00
Speaker
in a really wonderful manner here as as we are friends we've become friends and stuff like that but i think what happens is that like just like in this episode i'm like passionate about trying to raise your rating a little bit just because i really liked certain points you're also passionate about like you know your focal points on those episodes i think this episode and this discussion is like a microcosm for everything else like what i think people need to realize is that like
01:06:27
Speaker
Whether you like an episode or a technique or a like a portion or something or you don't like that about something, it doesn't mean you don't like it on a whole, you know what I mean? So I think it's like a lot of times people are people, and this is the two extremes. One extreme is like, well, if these things are not accurate and these things kind of suck, the whole thing should be
01:06:55
Speaker
The whole thing should be trash, right? It's like, yeah, because they did the Klingons wrong and they did a bunch of little things wrong. The whole show should be dismissed. That's one camp. And then the other camp is like, well, there's nothing wrong with it. It's perfect. Whereas, to be honest, we both try to sit in the middle.
01:07:16
Speaker
I know I agree. I feel very centrist to myself in that regard. And that's why I try to stay away from like either extreme, but you can't help it. Sometimes you're like drawn in and you just want to express your opinion on it. I just think that like, um, well, sometimes an opinion is so extreme that you just have to go to the other side and say, no, no, no, no. What you're saying is exaggerated, right?
01:07:39
Speaker
Like what I'm really grateful for and what I'm really happy for is that like had Star Trek Discovery never come back or did not come back but like had Star Trek the whole this whole journey of mine like Started because of excitement that Star Trek was coming back in some way, you know, and so like I think it's neat I've like met like amazing people. That's what I try to focus on is like, you know
01:08:03
Speaker
whether or not Star Trek Discovery is meeting my expectations of Star Trek at least it's like introducing a new group of people to Star Trek who may have never like you know thought about Star Trek as something that was cool or worth watching and despite its incongruities and canonical errors and like you know just like it often doesn't make sense and I think that like you know the writers promise this is for a reason but despite all that
01:08:30
Speaker
It's trying really hard to be a good Star Trek show, and I think it's going to get better. I have a lot of hope for season two, and you're right. It doesn't excuse Discovery from having a bad first season, but what would be inexcusable is if they said, oh yeah, we're going to keep going this way. Fuck what everyone's saying. And I think the fact that they're starting to evolve the show into something that might be more
01:08:55
Speaker
What the you know institutional ideas of Star Trek heart is gonna is promising I just I just sincerely believe that a lot of the people that praised discovery season one and
01:09:09
Speaker
will find themselves in maybe 10-15 years regretting that and they will come like I suppose come back down to earth and say hey look season one wasn't good at the time I was praising it because I was hype etc but let's all get real and be honest the first season isn't good and this is assuming the next seasons are very good like it gets better with like TNG did and I think we'll come to a general consensus in 10-15 years and say look TNG season one isn't good but
01:09:38
Speaker
the rest is. Discovery season wasn't good but the rest is. And that's pretty much how it goes with all of the Star Trek shows anyway. It's not very good either. It's just that for the moment I find it troubling that people, you know, they can't take that step back
01:10:01
Speaker
Mean like the thing is I think the ultimate goal of a TV show I think the ultimate goal of a TV show and we we in particular take Star Trek very seriously But I think its ultimate goal is to entertain the largest number of people as possible like that's how it sustains itself That's like how it goes on for those who find like the real deep intricacies and like kind of latch on to like the like minutia of it and go real deep and
01:10:29
Speaker
that's always gonna be a minority in any fandom you're gonna have like people who like devote themselves to something and then you're gonna have people who just are there for the the the loles if you will you know i mean and so i think it's okay to have that like i don't think every single fan of star trek needs to be like as intense as perhaps i am and i don't even think i'm that intense like so i don't know it is it is becoming um kind of normative
01:10:56
Speaker
to be more analytic in the way one watches a show. Like the modern audiences, as time passes, the modern audiences do pay more attention to detail, to coherence and consistency. And this isn't just Star Trek, right? This is when it comes to like the MCU or any other great big franchise, people are
01:11:17
Speaker
more aware and more concerned with details nowadays. And that's how the fandom will evolve. Thankfully, though, these people that are fans now will eventually become those that will produce these shows, and they will transmit that, you know, kind of need for my new show.
01:11:35
Speaker
Just think about this for a moment, the people who are writing, producing, you know, making Star Trek today, many of them are the fans that grew up and are here
Creative Challenges and Future of Star Trek
01:11:48
Speaker
doing this. Like Ted Sullivan, I use as a good example, the show is surprisingly not what I would expect someone with his like, you know, like I think if Ted Sullivan was the showrunner,
01:11:59
Speaker
Star Trek would be really different. I'm very curious about him as a person because I know he makes references to things that I agree with, but then the show comes out totally bunkers. That's why I'm so excited for Mike McMahan doing Lower Dicks. I know that Kurtzman will still be the showrunner, but it seems like they're having the show being created by McMahan.
01:12:22
Speaker
And so he's pretty much got the green light to do the show the way he wants it to be done. And Kurtzman's just kind of supervising all of these different shows that are going to exist, right? And considering he wants to make all of these shows very different and attract different kind of fans, I think leaving McMahon in charge, him being a hardcore fan, is awesome.
01:12:45
Speaker
Star Trek's taking note of what's going on in the industry I think and I think they're doing a really good job of kind of like creating like a mini version of like what's going on with the MCU and like they're taking note of all these things and I think diversifying and like
01:13:02
Speaker
Providing different kind of like tones to their series is wonderful and the more and the more shows like that come out I think discovery will fall into place and People will understand it more like they'll accept it for like the tone differences and things like that where
01:13:20
Speaker
I'm just like, you know, once we have the animated series and then the Picard show, like, I think it'll paint a different landscape of like where Star Trek is headed. It's just that they started off with Discovery, which was maybe not the best decision. The starting off with the radical change was very ballsy. They should have maybe started off with something like Picard, which people will say that the fact that Discovery works is because, you know, that that's the result of Picard coming back.
01:13:50
Speaker
Wouldn't you also be able to say that their gamble paid off because like they did do this dramatic shift They created a lot of controversy But it's making shitloads of money enough that the studio's like green lighting projects that like, you know You know I'm saying like it's hard to say right but I'm I feel like they could have done the same thing with a show that was less controversial and
01:14:15
Speaker
because this may seem ridiculous but if you stumble upon a YouTube channel of someone talking about something that you've never even thought about in your life before but the person is passionate, the person is intense and explaining these things with passion then all of a sudden somehow you're interested
01:14:36
Speaker
And that's because that person is kind of in love with what they're showing you, in love with what they're telling you. And I feel like Star Trek's the same thing. You didn't have to make Star Trek for the general audiences. You could have made Star Trek four Trekkies with all of this, and then just the love and the passion that you've shown in the series that you make would have translated to the general audience.
01:15:00
Speaker
But then, like, who might have say this because they made discovery and it's successful. So they made the right choice, it would seem. I do see your point, but I do see your point. But also, like, I think that, like, I've seen that question kind of posed to some of the I forget, you know, it's we get so much information. This might be from my imagination. I don't know.
01:15:23
Speaker
But I could have sworn I saw like a similar type of question posed to maybe Ted Sullivan or some or one of the writers or producers Associated with Star Trek discovery. It's hard to keep track of everyone I try to follow, you know these people on Twitter, but sometimes you don't know who's who but anyways, I could have sworn that like I
01:15:44
Speaker
the response was something like well we are making it for for the fans like they're i think that people genuinely thought like fans would accept you know everything but there you know i it's obvious because of the changes happening in season two it's obvious that there was weight to what was being said apparently yeah a hundred percent because i didn't believe you but you were right i i handed you right thank you really truly
01:16:14
Speaker
All right, then of course people like and no hate or disrespect to sneaker Martin green at all um But she genuinely thinks that everything that happens in discovery You know it is amazing for the fans and she genuinely believes that all of this was done out of love and passion for the fans right and that's simply because and she did like she She doesn't know better. I Can't blame her for thinking that Because she she can't know she doesn't know she doesn't
01:16:44
Speaker
no Star Trek. But I think if she were a long time fan, if she were someone that had like you and me, we had grown up watching Star Trek, been involved in Star Trek, and been interested in all of the details, and then once we get onto the show and become an actor, then you know, you might be more concerned with certain details.
01:17:04
Speaker
I think it'd be hard to find a fan of that level who's also a successful actor only because that's what you need to find them as writers because a lot of them have become writers. Yeah. Yeah. But again, I think that's where the I think that's where again, my argument
01:17:21
Speaker
Consistently has been like I don't think I can blame the writers too much about the faults of the show because on That level if you're close your eyes and you just kind of listen to the dialogue and what what's happening in the events that are occurring They're really they really aren't breaking from it might not be great What's that the technobabble in Star Trek Discovery is
01:17:44
Speaker
yeah it might not be it might not be the most sophisticated writing at this point no i agree well i agree it might not be the most sophisticated star trek writing we've seen but like i mean i love it but insurrection exists and like i love it but you know i think on a more general note as well if we're not talking about just specific lines of dialogue
01:18:07
Speaker
When you think about how it was written that the Klingon Empire managed to overthrow like 80% of Starfleet or 80% of the fleet, like the numbers that they're showing us, it shows that they're not fully aware
01:18:24
Speaker
Right. It's like the whole the dilithium mine. They need to they need to reassign their science advisors and they need to get like a couple of people involved. And I think again, now that the show is making oodles of money, maybe they'll be able to hire someone like that kind of moving in that direction, though. Cool.
01:18:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean like imagine Sir Brian Cox. Is he a sir? I don't know if he's a sir, but Brian Cox as a as a Or Neil deGrasse Tyson as a as a science advisor, you know advisor on Star Trek, but those those guys are mostly science communicators I think there's like a lot of hardcore scientists out there that aren't even on the stage all the time that that you know, we need to fund their research like
01:19:05
Speaker
Why not get science advice in exchange for funding research? And I think that would be awesome if I found out that like Star Trek was funding research towards like let's say something that I think is really important is fusion energy, right? You know like the byproduct of which is water
01:19:22
Speaker
You know, so like how cool would it be if and those are the kinds of science advisors that would know their shit about like how a warp engine might work or like how a mycelial network might be you know constructed or like how Traveling through it might look or stuff like that. So Again, I'm not saying Star Trek discovery doesn't have science consultants. I just think that they could have
01:19:46
Speaker
higher paid science consultants perhaps in different sides. I don't know. It's just an impression. I don't know anything about the production. However, if CBS would like to hire me or Sean as interns, we'd be happy. Super happy. Cause why not? I mean, what if they're listening?
01:20:04
Speaker
You know what? What would be awesome is if CBS and Paramount found a way to put the differences aside, at least just regarding Star Trek, they would have made Star Trek a united kind of franchise. I'll be an intern at Paramount. Sean, you're an intern at CBS.
01:20:22
Speaker
And we're bringing coffees to our respective leaders here, and we'll just slowly, you know, get them to like, be like, they'll be like, wait, what? Your friend works at CBS on Star Trek? And I'm like, yeah. And you work at Paramount on Star Trek? Yeah. And your friends? Yeah. I think we should all be friends and like everyone.
01:20:40
Speaker
She I think we just created the first Star Trek related comedy buddy film played by Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell Play me and Adam Sandler will pay there's likely just like the inevitable Jonah Hill cameo
01:20:59
Speaker
That's true. Or maybe like Hassan Minhaj. Hassan Minhaj could play me and you could be played by the lovely Chris. Which one?
01:21:15
Speaker
The Chris. The Chris. The Evans. The Evans, of course. The Evans. Chris Evans and Hassan Minhaj can play interns, one at CBS, one at Paramount, and they are working on their respective Star Trek projects, and it's a hilarious comedy. I would watch that. I would watch it because it's Evans. And they'll need to hire us as consultants because the characters are based on us. I know. So it's perfect. I would have to spend so much time with them.
01:21:45
Speaker
And me too. By the way. Anyways, now that we've descended into the quantum realm, we've gone into the quantum realm here. It's time
Conclusion and Recommendations
01:22:04
Speaker
to say goodbye. We did 83 minutes. That's insane.
01:22:08
Speaker
Well we went off topic. We did go off topic. Hey it was super fun talking about all these things. There are a few things I want to mention.
01:22:18
Speaker
because this will be posted pretty much now. If you've made it this far, thank you, first of all, for sticking with us through this whole discussion, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed it. But please go check out the content on Trek on the Tubes page, on the Real Cut Wallskis page, who hasn't updated in a while, and he's got a great 15-minute proposal about Star Trek Discovery's tone differences from other Star Treks, which I thought was very compelling. Came back strong.
01:22:47
Speaker
What's that? He came back strong. He was absent for a while, but no. Yeah. Well, it's a heavy production. I mean, there's a lot of production in that episode. I mean, like he's like even marking out scenes and like there's like a visual analysis being brought. It's intense, yo.
01:23:04
Speaker
Yeah, I had to have a glass of wine before I watch it, but I'm glad I did. And then there's an awesome, I also caught up on TrekkerPrise's page. He has his discussion with Trekky Rob about Star Trek DST, and that was cool to listen to. I didn't get to watch that, but I listened to it while I was driving in my car, so that was a neat thing to do. And am I missing anything?
01:23:31
Speaker
Um, not really. I think that's it. All right. We'll live long and prosper and we'll see you next time. See ya.
01:24:51
Speaker
you