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Rejection, Resilience & What Really Matters with Ryan Shelton
553 Plays16 days ago
I couldn’t be more excited to share this episode with you! Ryan Shelton has been on the top of my guest wish list since I started Pass Around the Smile. His episode on the Imperfects Podcast on Shame, Jealousy and Purpose changed my life. And today, I hope this episode can have a similar effect on my beautiful community!
Ryan and I have a very open, casual, yet vulnerable conversation about the struggles we have both faced within the film and television industry. We dive into everything from rejection and competition, to the emotional resilience it takes to keep going ~ and the tough inner dialogue that shows up when we feel like we’ve failed. Ryan is so generous in sharing his thoughts ~ which I know will help my Smilie’s feel understood on many different levels.
We also chat about how our goals can shift over time, and how doing the inner work can reveal that the big milestone we were chasing may not actually be what brings us happiness. Often, we place so much pressure on one “peak moment” that we forget to celebrate the beautiful things happening in between. This episode is a powerful reminder that joy, success, and fulfilment aren’t reserved for some far-off finish line ~ they’re available to us now, in the everyday.
A BIT ABOUT RYAN: Ryan Shelton is a writer, actor, comedian, producer and podcast host who somehow manages to keep heart at the centre of everything he does. From Rove Live to We Can Be Heroes, to writing for award-winning shows with Hamish and Andy, his creative work has shaped some of Australia’s most iconic entertainment. But it’s his honest, vulnerable work on The Imperfects podcast that’s creating a deeper kind of impact ~ helping people feel seen, heard, and understood. I know, because one episode in particular changed my life.
Listen to Ryan's episode on The Imperfects on Shame, Jealousy and Purpose here.
Find Ryan's Instagram here, he has his film SEEN pinned at the top of his profile.
LSKD LINKS AND CODES BELOW!
Here is the link to LSKD! And use the following code for $30 off when you spend $100 or more.
CODE: PAS-LSKDBP (Available until June 30 2025! Can be used online across AU/NZ and USA/Rest of world stores) Scroll down for T&C’s
View the Pass Around the Smile website here! (My very own oracle cards, journals, meditations, courses + more magical stuff available!)
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The Pass Around the Smile podcast is recorded on Bundjalung Country, in South East Queensland, Australia. We acknowledge the Yugambeh people of the Bundjalung Nation, the traditional owners of this land. We pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.
T&C's for LSKD: Discount code must be applied during checkout, before the order is completed. $100AUD minimum spend. One use per customer. Voucher not valid in conjunction with any other discount, offer or promotion. Other exclusions may apply.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Pass Around the Smile is like your go-to friend, the one that lifts you up and backs you to the end. She's there to guide and inspire, challenge and teach, and remind you that your best self isn't out of reach.
00:00:11
Speaker
Self-development, manifestation, self-love and more, it's time to trust the process more than ever before.
00:00:19
Speaker
Welcome to Pass Around the Smile, the podcast. I'm your host, Cleo Massey, and I am so glad you're here. Let the magic begin.
Guest Introduction: Ryan Shelton
00:00:32
Speaker
Hello, my smileys, and welcome to quite possibly the most exciting guest episode that I have ever recorded, ever put out. I am so proud of this episode.
00:00:44
Speaker
Ryan Shelton has been number one on my guest wish list since I started Pass Around the Smile, the podcast, and Here he is. And I'm just so excited to share this moment with you guys. I'm so excited for you to hear the conversation that we have to hopefully feel really seen and heard and inspired. So, you know, sit back and relax, listen,
00:01:07
Speaker
Hope you love it. And I love you guys.
Sponsor Introduction: LSKD
00:01:10
Speaker
But before we get into Ryan's episode, I want to take a minute to thank today's sponsor, which is LSKD. If you haven't heard of LSKD before, they are an activewear brand, but to be honest, they're more of a movement that is inspiring people worldwide.
00:01:26
Speaker
I love their values. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to read out their values. And yes, I'm talking about the sponsor right now, but it's almost like the episode has already started because their values are so in alignment with what I'm all about at Pass Around a Smile. And i love reading them myself and love just having a little think about their values.
00:01:45
Speaker
Really great life lessons in general. So there's six Their first one is enjoy the journey. Have fun, be yourself, embrace diversity. Number two is create a community. We all know that that's what I love to do.
00:01:58
Speaker
Our community is why we are here and who we work for. Love that. The next one, three, is sweep the sheds. No one is bigger than the team. No one is too big to do the small things.
00:02:11
Speaker
Number four, there's a way to do it better. Find it. Innovate. Set the standard. Do more with less. Their fifth value is move fast and break shit.
00:02:22
Speaker
Fail forward, dare to think differently. Nothing is impossible, which is something I say to you guys all the time. And their sixth the one, which I think I love the most, is 1% better every day.
00:02:34
Speaker
Embrace change, reflect and grow. Leaders are teachers. What an incredible brand with such an incredible vision and mission around what they do. I should probably talk about the activewear quickly.
00:02:48
Speaker
Their activewear is incredible. I personally have some of their long tights and their bike pants, which I absolutely love. But my favorite of theirs would have to be their sports bra. Now I have the Evoke Long Line Sports Bra.
00:03:01
Speaker
I wear it every walk. I wear it every Pilates class. And when it's in the wash, I'm like, well, I won't go on the walk. I won't go to Pilates because in the wash, I can't wear it. I really should just grab a few more.
00:03:12
Speaker
But it's so comfy. It's so cute. I probably will never wear another sports bra in my life. Anyway, incredible brand. Delighted to have them as a sponsor for this very, very, very special episode.
00:03:24
Speaker
And they have been kind enough to offer something really generous for my community. They have given you guys $30 off you spend $100 or more. when you spend a hundred dollars or more $30 off, that's pretty decent. And this is worldwide, guys. I know that I have a lot of followers in the UK and in the United States, Australia, obviously.
00:03:43
Speaker
But $30 off when you spend 100 or more, I have put the link that will get you to their site, see all their beautiful things, plus the code. Make sure you copy the code while you're going through checkout. So yeah, it's all there in the show notes ready for you guys. Thank you, LSKD, for sponsoring this episode. And let's get into it with the incredible, incredible Ryan Shelton.
Guest Arrival and Admiration Exchange
00:04:04
Speaker
And we're on. We're recording. We're frigging recording. Frigging recording. It's happening. Welcome to the Pass Around the Smile podcast, Ryan. Thanks, c Cleo. It's an honor to be here.
00:04:18
Speaker
It's great. I love it. So happy to be here. I'm smiling. yeah Like I just said before started recording, you you've already passed me the smile. I didn't know at what point in the episode that you actually officially passed the smile, but the smile's already been passed. already have the smile.
00:04:33
Speaker
What do I do with it? Do I pass it back? You keep it, you pass it on. Pass it on. Yeah. Yeah. Take that really seriously, please. And I only pass on one smile or can I give out multiple?
00:04:44
Speaker
It depends how you're feeling on the day. Okay. Yeah. Just whatever you have the capacity to do. Okay, I'll see how I go. I want to hand out multiple. want hundred smiles. I mean, look, that would make me really happy if you could just do that. so Well, I'll just give you one of them.
00:04:59
Speaker
I'd love that. Thank you You'll be one of them. Yep. Oh, so special. Ryan, I usually get my guests to send me their bio and I will read out their bio.
00:05:11
Speaker
i didn't ask you for one. So don't worry. Good. few I thought, did I miss an email or something? right You didn't. I took it upon myself to write my own for you. Oh, sit back.
00:05:23
Speaker
Someone's doing the work. I'm doing the work. Put your seatbelt on and here we go. Shit, man. Okay, go. Ryan Shelton. He's funny, he's talented, and he's changing the world one conversation at a time.
00:05:37
Speaker
Ryan is one of those people who wears a hundred hats. He's a writer, he's an actor, a comedian, a producer, and a podcast host. And somehow he still manages to keep his heart at the centre of everything he does.
00:05:51
Speaker
And with every hat he wears, he wears it bloody well. He's built a career that a lot of people would dream of. He's been a familiar face in Australian comedy and television for years, making us laugh and think through the kind of clever quality content that's quietly iconic.
00:06:07
Speaker
From Rove Live to We Can Be Heroes to co-creating and writing for several award-winning shows with Hamish and Andy, his creative fingerprint is all over some of Australia's most loved entertainment.
00:06:20
Speaker
But it's his work on The Imperfects, the podcast he co-hosts with Hugh and Josh van Kylenberg, that has created such a powerful kind of impact. It's honest, vulnerable, and sometimes uncomfortably real in the best way.
00:06:34
Speaker
The conversations they have are helping people feel seen, heard, and understood, and I know they are changing lives because one episode in particular changed mine.
Ryan's TV Show Dream and Emotional Journey
00:06:45
Speaker
Ryan's solo episode on shame, jealousy, and purpose cracked me wide open.
00:06:50
Speaker
It was the nudge I needed to finally see a psychologist, and doing that has genuinely changed my life. That is the kind of ripple effect his work is having. Ryan and I share a similar path.
00:07:02
Speaker
We have both experienced the highs and the heartbreak of the film and television industry, as well as the highs and the heartbreak of supporting the Melbourne Demons Football Club. So without further ado, let's get into it.
00:07:16
Speaker
Wow. Can I just clip that up and send it directly to my parents, please? That would be good. They would like to hear that. That's lovely. That's so, so nice, Claire. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. Wow.
00:07:29
Speaker
You're welcome. I feel very good about myself. Thanks. Oh, you are so welcome. I hope i hope you do. So you so you bloody should. Now, um Ryan, you released an episode on the Imperfects Patreon account, which is your subscribers only account, which of course I am involved with.
00:07:49
Speaker
And just recently, it was a couple of weeks ago, and you chatted about a big goal that you've had for a very long time. And actually, I'm reading a book that you ah you recommended a long time ago, which was The Courage to be Disliked. I'm reading it at the moment.
00:08:05
Speaker
And a lot of it is The Courage to actually chase our goals. And that's something that you have done for a very long time. From a very young age, you wanted your own TV show. And then you've released this Patreon episode and...
00:08:18
Speaker
this goal has kind of, it kind of came to a head and then it didn't. I was hoping you could kind of take us back, tell us about your goals. How are you feeling at the moment? And how is the courage around this goal feeling at the moment?
00:08:32
Speaker
Yeah, so i I have been working on a TV show that is sort of like my idea and a show that I would um then be the star of and I'd write it and it's sort of like a, it's a me show, you know, something.
00:08:48
Speaker
And that is something I have wanted since I was, for as long as I can remember, it's always been the thing that... I mean, when I was younger, it just felt like this unconscious marker of success. So like when I, I would i just sort of felt like, well, if I ever could have my own TV show, then I would know that I've made it and I'm successful. That is, that's Everest.
00:09:13
Speaker
Like that is the top of Mount Comedy or whatever you want to call it. And I'd always just sort of thought, well, that's what I'm building towards. That's what i'm ah that that's what you know going on Rove is in service to. That's what um doing going on being on radio will hopefully get me closer to the top of that mountain.
00:09:34
Speaker
ah Anything I put on Instagram or making yeah going on other people's shows, all of that is hopefully leading to the head of television calling me and saying, guess what kid, you got yourself a show, you know, that, that's sort of what I, that was the path that I, it's not like I have, I don't really have like a life plan or I don't, I've never been someone who thought like that, but,
00:09:58
Speaker
Um, but if, any but the closest I've ever got is like, I want to have a TV show one day, my own TV show, like, like all my heroes when I was growing up had and, uh, the people, the most successful Australian comedians usually get their own show in one way or another.
00:10:16
Speaker
And that was always the thing I wanted. And so I'd been trying to get it ever since, basically ever since, uh, Rove finished, which was 2009, think. ah nine i think um After that, I thought, okay, well, um I've done that for a couple of years now. It feels like the next step is to start writing and pitching my own show, a scripted thing that was sort of in the style of what I'd developed while doing Rove and making other shows we'd made at the time.
00:10:45
Speaker
And, and so I started pitching then and it was, it was a, and at the same time, I was also working with my production company at the time we were was making Hamish and Andy shows.
00:10:58
Speaker
So it was this company called Radio Karate, which still exists. We haven't made any new shows for a few years, but, um, we've made like, uh, Hamish and Andy's gap year series. And then we did a true story and perfect holiday and all these Hamish and Andy shows.
00:11:11
Speaker
And while we were making those, I was in them a little bit, but I was mainly producing those shows. And ah in the background of doing that, I was always trying to write and pitch and hopefully, you know, get someone to make my own show.
00:11:27
Speaker
And it just never really happened. And and i was just getting so frustrated and so frustrated because i at that point in my life, I kind of felt owed a TV show.
00:11:38
Speaker
i felt owed a TV show by the industry, this is which I've now realized is complete bullshit. But in my mind, I felt like, well, because I've i've i've been on TV for a few years now, surely now it's my time.
00:11:50
Speaker
Other people are getting shows. Why don't I get mine? And I felt like this entitlement to my own show. and I would feel resentful towards people who weren't prioritizing my dreams and helping me get what I thought I deserved.
00:12:04
Speaker
And after a while, I realized that, well, no one owes me anything. um i mean, this is obvious to say now, but at the time, it was quite a kind of... like a revelation to realize that like, oh, I'm actually not owed anything.
00:12:16
Speaker
Actually, very few people get their own TV show. And, um, and so I sort of realized that should I need to, I need to make this happen on my own and it's not owed to me.
00:12:27
Speaker
Um, and then, yeah, then I is jump in at any point, Cleo, if I'm just rambling, sorry, but. No, this is great. Yeah. um so i So then at at some point I yeah found this book, and The Courage to be Disliked. And it just got recommended to me on Amazon, I think, as a, you know, you might also like this. Because I think at the time, what the reason that got recommended to me, I think, is because the types of books I was reading at that time were how to write characters for sitcoms.
00:12:59
Speaker
And part of those part of that kind of genre, i guess, kind of like bleeds into what makes different people different or unique or what makes a person a person or what is what is a character arc. And that kind of then you start thinking about characters. You're also thinking about like, well, what makes a life?
00:13:19
Speaker
What makes a person? What's important? what ah The obstacles they have to overcome. And think because of those sorts of books, I was also thinking kind of philosophically because I was like mid thirties at the time and I was thinking about life and, you know, my show and like, what is success? And I've done all these good things, but I don't feel successful.
00:13:39
Speaker
So yeah, the courage to be disliked as I'm sure same for yourself, but like As a performer, that seems like a ah wild theory to want to be disliked. Like it kind of goes against everything we've been told as people, let alone as performers, you know, it's like you want to be liked. Like that's the goal, you know?
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah. Um, no one wants an unlikable performer. And so this idea of like trying to be like disliked is like, why? So that just jumped out at me and I started reading it and I was just this book.
00:14:14
Speaker
It just like some, like, like some books do. it just got me at just the right time. Like I just, I needed to hear, I needed to read that book at that time.
00:14:26
Speaker
Just by, it just, it was just by chance. And and i was so inspired and affected by this book. I remember thinking at one point when I was coming to the end of the book and I was like, shit, I just need to keep reading this book because I don't want to forget i don't want to forget all the stuff in it.
00:14:45
Speaker
And then I remember thinking, I just wish there was like a place I could go once week that someone who knew the book really well could just remind me of the good bits of the book.
00:14:58
Speaker
So I'm always being reminded. And then I realized, oh, that's why people go to church.
00:15:04
Speaker
like That's why that's what it is. That's exactly what religion is. It's like, they have this book or this text that they really believe in. And then they go every week to be reminded of ah the way they should be living their life. So that's what I wanted.
00:15:16
Speaker
And there was no church for the carriage to be disliked, unfortunately. Um, we could message the author and be like, look, can we set up weekly Zoom calls? Yeah. I mean, I did think about contacting the author. I was i wanted to like visit him in Japan and i don't know. I was so moved by it. so anyway, so when i was reading this book, it kind of got me thinking about like, um, what, what am i like?
00:15:43
Speaker
Okay. Well, got me thinking if I, If I get this TV show, will it actually make me happy? And I'd never considered that because I just always thought like, well, obviously it will.
00:15:58
Speaker
ah just I just didn't even question it. I just assumed that like, well, if I get the show, then life complete, you know, I've done it. I'm the king. I'm like ultimate rhyme. Absolutely.
00:16:09
Speaker
Yeah. And so I just sort of assumed that would be the case until I actually questioned it. And I thought like, oh, I'm putting so much work and mental energy and anguish and going so going through so much um and dedicating so much of my time and whatever to this thing.
00:16:27
Speaker
But I haven't actually considered the like thought like, well, will it actually make me happy if I get it? Yeah. And so then I thought, so this is, so at this point, so I went to this, jap I was at this Japanese restaurant with Jam, with my partner.
00:16:42
Speaker
And was like days away from turning 37. I was like sort of approaching a midlife crisis, but I could feel it, but it wasn't happening, but it was like approaching. It was nearing. It was
Visualization Exercise and Personal Fulfillment
00:16:52
Speaker
nearing. could see it on the horizon, a little glisten on the, on the horizon.
00:16:57
Speaker
And, and I thought, and um And so I thought, okay, well, what, yes, I want the TV show, but like, what do I actually want? Like, what is the best case scenario?
00:17:08
Speaker
Because i need to, I realized that I need to figure out what is all my dreams coming true. What does that actually look like? And then if I get, which i I probably won't, but if I got that, will that make me happy? Because if it doesn't, then what the fuck am I doing?
00:17:24
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So i I did this like visualization thing while in this Japanese restaurant with jam. And I don't know how to do visualizations. I've never even thought about it, but there must've been something in a book or something I'd heard about thinking, you know, imagining yourself in a situation.
00:17:40
Speaker
The past around the smile community are like, yeah, we know. Visualization. You literally trick your mind into bringing what you want into reality. Right. So that's what you were doing. That's what i was doing. So i don't know if this is the same, but I was essentially imagining myself in a version of my life or in the future when everything I've ever wanted had come true.
00:18:01
Speaker
Like the best case scenario. and And this sounds gross to say, but like the best case scenario I realized for me that And not that I think this will happen or ever thought this was actually possible, but in playing out this fantasy, the the best case scenario was me, the world considering me as the funniest person in the world.
00:18:23
Speaker
It doesn't sound silly at all. But that that's like, that's yeah that's that's what you're kind of working towards, I guess. It's like, you know, so I imagine myself as that. I imagine myself like on the stage at the Emmys being handed the Emmy for best comedy for the fifth year running, like Will Ferrell's handing me the award because he's a huge fan of mine and whispers in my ear, love you.
00:18:44
Speaker
you. know Everyone's standing ovation. All my idols are in the crowd giving me the thumbs up. Everyone wants to work with me. I'm on the front cover of every magazine paper. I am universally loved, adored and respected in comedy.
00:19:00
Speaker
Yep. That's what I visualise. and then And so I thought, okay, if that somehow magically happens, how does that feel? And even though I acknowledge that acknowledge that It was cool. Like that's a, that would be really cool.
00:19:17
Speaker
I, the thing I felt more than anything and an overwhelming sense was like, it doesn't, like, I don't care. It's huge.
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah. It was just like, I don't know. ah I don't even know what this means. Like, okay, this is cool because I get to have some really cool meetings and I'll probably get to be in some cool films. But yes, it will change my life a little bit, but doesn't really feel, i don't feel happier. That's for sure.
00:19:47
Speaker
I feel, if anything, I feel more pressure because now I have to like, like live up to this expectation. So it wow it was just a crazy moment because of course, immediately once realizing that it's like, well, why am I doing it then?
00:20:07
Speaker
And should I be doing it? You know, yeah like why, if I'm, if this isn't leading to me being happy, then what the hell am I doing? yeah Because I knew that I liked it. I like doing it. Like I like performing. I like working with great people.
00:20:22
Speaker
ah like my job, but it was a weird realization to think, well, if I become the best, I won't be happy. That's weird. What's that about? It's crazy. Do you think as well, you had put so much pressure on yourself?
00:20:35
Speaker
with this goal because you had it for such a long time and almost becomes a part of your identity. Definitely. You almost want to prove to yourself and to others, which we shouldn't want to prove to others, but we're human. We do. We want validation. We want approval.
00:20:49
Speaker
And as actors, we literally need approval. We need yeses. We need people to like us. Mm-hmm. For us to get the role. And that's how we've been conditioned. And then all of a sudden, like you say, you have all this pressure to like create this big dream.
00:21:05
Speaker
And then you realize, don't know, do yeah, do you actually want it? And for you to sit down and actually realize, oh, I could be happy without it is so big. No, but I hadn't even got to that point yet.
00:21:17
Speaker
I hadn't even got to the point where I could be happy without it. Like I didn't, I hadn't gotten there yet. So at that point in the, in, when I had this realization, there was no part going, it wasn't like, oh well, I now know what I need to be happy. No, I didn't know that. I just was like, well, I know that the thing that I love doing more than anything, and I've put all of my career energy into and my identity The, the peak of that mountain, I won't be happy at the top. So what, if that's not make going to make me happy, then what will? What is? Yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
That was sort of, and then that, that, I mean, that began that realization
00:21:57
Speaker
essentially led me here, which is in, I'm literally in the imperfect studio. Like that, wow like that, that, that really set me on this path. Cause I, the first person I messaged after having that realization was this guy that I'd only met once Uh, a year and a half before that night, I'd met him once we got a photo together and I hadn't spoken to him since. And that was Hugh.
00:22:23
Speaker
And so I messaged Hugh and said, Hey, remember me? I'm that guy in the cafe that you met briefly. And because I knew he did the resilience project and he did this work in this space, I was like, maybe he knows, maybe he'll know what I should do.
00:22:39
Speaker
i just felt like he, i'd never seen a psychologist. I didn't have anyone like a professional like that,
Handling Rejection and Personal Growth
00:22:46
Speaker
that I could talk to. So he was just this random guy that I thought I could talk to. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:52
Speaker
Wow. So you kind of got to this realization that that dream, the biggest dream as well as it could go, wasn't necessarily going to make you happy, but you were at this point where you didn't know what was going to make you happy then because you were like, okay, well, if that's not, then, you know, what is?
00:23:09
Speaker
yeah Talk to Hugh. You're where you are now. where how we How is Ryan feeling as actor Ryan? How's podcast host Ryan feeling? How's Ryan without any labels feeling? Like where is your mind at at the moment?
00:23:26
Speaker
Well, to to I just realized I haven't actually answered the question you properly asked, which was... No, that's okay. We got time....about the Patreon episode that we that you're talking about.
00:23:37
Speaker
So, yeah, which kind of ties into this. So i I eventually did, through a lot of, like, work and doing different stuff, I eventually... And also realizing that I didn't need a TV show to be happy. I still wanted one, but I i wasn't relying on it anymore.
00:23:54
Speaker
And it wasn't a necessity. But after I did a bunch of um like projects, like this monthly um video project I did throughout COVID mainly, that ended up in me meeting these people and I got this TV show.
00:24:08
Speaker
And then I started developing a TV show with the ABC and was working on it for about a year and a half. And then only about a month or so ago, they ABC passed on it. And old, like old slash young version of me, um would have been absolutely devastated.
00:24:25
Speaker
And, and I think in that episode, when I was talking about it, I'd only just found out and I got really emotional, obviously. And the reason as you, as I sort of explore tried to explain in the episode, like the reason I was so emotional was not for me, 43 year old me.
00:24:43
Speaker
It was like so really, I was really sad for like 25 year old me realizing that he's probably never going to get his show. And that was quite, I was really confronting in the moment. I i mean, the, this therapy I'm doing at the moment is with a guy and he's, it's a schema therapy, which i don't know if you've heard about, but it's essentially, you know, talking to your younger self sometimes. And like, and, and and that And so I was sort of in that mindset. So I was i was sad about that. But 43-year-old me, like I'm disappointed and I definitely, the rejection hurts a little bit.
00:25:18
Speaker
But I don't, because I don't, I genuinely don't need a TV show now. And if I never get it, I'm okay because there's so many other things I could do that I love doing.
00:25:29
Speaker
and And not to say that I'm like capable of so many things, but it's like there's just so many fun things to do. that I really enjoy and get a lot of and and feel really rewarded when I do them. So it it's a whole different thing. Yeah.
00:25:47
Speaker
I did inner child meditation once and I was taken back to meeting like the, you know, eight-year-old version of me. And I had a similar moment to what you just described where I looked at her and she looked back at me and it was so clear and it was so emotional And I told her, you're not going to make it in the film and television industry like you want.
00:26:09
Speaker
You're not going to make it. And she looked up at me and she was so confused. And she was like, she literally said to me, she's like, ah don't care.
00:26:21
Speaker
And I said back to her and I was like, what do you mean? And she goes, well, are you happy? Are you having fun? And I was like, Yeah, I yeah like, cause personally for me, I've stepped away from the film and television industry quite a lot and I am the most relaxed present version of me. I have no pressure. I am so fulfilled in other areas of my life that I didn't know. i didn't know this was possible. This level of fulfillment, it was always attached to, you know, getting the roles and showing other people that I could do it.
00:26:53
Speaker
And this little version of me was just so confused as to why It meant that it had to be film and TV to be happy. And that meditation changed everything for me. So yeah, the whole schema therapy and the um inner child stuff is so powerful, isn't it?
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I've only done a little bit of it, but I love the idea of it. And the little bit I've done, it's, it's really, it's really powerful. Like it's quite abstract when you first do it, because i mean, the way that I've done it a few times is you, you literally talk, you imagine you're talking to yourself in an empty chair. So you're looking at an empty chair And then you then switch chairs and you sit in that chair and you speak as your younger self to your oldest. Like, it's like kind of like role playing. It's acting. So it was a good gig, but didn't play very well.
00:27:41
Speaker
um but In fact, you had to pay. I had to pay. Yeah, I had to pay. ah But yeah, it is very powerful when it when ah when it really hits like it can.
00:27:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's amazing. And how do you feel like essentially your goals have changed and my goals have changed as well? and But personally for me, I sometimes feel like me saying, oh yeah, you know, my goals have changed. I have all these goals outside of film and TV now that are lighting me up.
00:28:10
Speaker
I worry that people will perceive me a, giving an excuse as to why I didn't make it. Do you feel that way sometimes? Yeah, definitely. I was really, conscious I was actually really conscious of saying when the show got passed on, I was really conscious of saying to people, I'm actually fine. I'm actually relieved because it does sound like when you're a kid and you fall over and everyone's like, Oh my God, are you okay? Yeah. I actually wanted to fall over. Yeah.
00:28:37
Speaker
actually It was actually kind of fun. Like you but you don't want to seem like you've been hurt or out of control or something. so ah yeah, I was worried about that for sure. And I still am um because because sometimes even though I say like,
00:28:54
Speaker
I don't, cause I believe wholeheartedly that need a TV show, but then there are some times where the rejection really hurts that I, that that I questioned myself on that. was like, oh am I really, am I really at that? Do I, am I like, I still need validation for sure.
00:29:13
Speaker
Like still need people to tell me great job. Doesn't matter. And this would be the same for anyone. Like, you know, this, but like even the best actors in the world probably still want someone to tell them that they're doing a good job.
00:29:23
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and um' probably I'll probably always have that, but yeah, it's, I think, I think like, ah don't know, there's maybe it's just getting older. I don't know that I, I don't, I'm not holding onto that thing as much as I was and I'm not as tied, like my identity isn't tied to it as much. So yeah.
00:29:47
Speaker
And isn't that empowering? and Yeah, it is. It is. and and And I dip in and out of it, to be honest. Like sometimes I'm like, particularly when I come on a podcast like this, I'm like, yeah, I'm fucking cured.
00:29:59
Speaker
um but but But there's so often I'm not like so often I'm just a mess because I feel... so like, like I feel like a failure or I feel untalented or I feel all those sorts of things that we all feel, but like, and that's, that's a, that's a constant thing I'm trying to deal with and not get sucked into that need for validation or the, you know, the need for the ABC to say yes to my show in order for me to feel like I'm like good enough to Yeah.
00:30:33
Speaker
exist Oh, it's yeah honestly, i I cannot resonate more. and We've talked a little bit about it, but my mum and I, our TV show, mum created this TV show, Stage Mums, and we were just about to go on Network 10 and it was our dream. Like we got to work together. It was comedy.
00:30:54
Speaker
They picked up half an hour episodes and it was like this is this is it. This is our dream. And another lesson within that was actually we realised that it even though we nearly got to the peak of that dream, it didn't necessarily bring us the fulfillment and the happiness that we thought it would.
00:31:10
Speaker
But then of course COVID happened, the investors kind of fell apart and, you know, we couldn't, we couldn't do the show and it all crumbled. And just that feeling of like, yeah, like not,
00:31:24
Speaker
We felt like complete failures. We felt empty. We felt ripped apart. We felt hard done by. and then when it goes, you're dealing with like grieving. You're grieving the project that you've dreamt of for so long. And did you go through like a grieving process or are I guess, where are you now? Do you have the courage to, ah you holding onto to hope for your TV show or are you choosing to let it go?
00:31:52
Speaker
i'm choosing to let it go. which takes a huge amount of courage in itself. I think that that's almost harder. I think it would for some people. It doesn't feel like courage to me, to be honest. yeah It feels,
00:32:05
Speaker
um I don't know what it is, but it, it, Yeah, it it feels relieving or like kind of liberating, to be honest. like ah Like it was sort of, I don't know, like I think part of me was, you know, when you you know when you're in a relationship that you know is probably not perfect for you um and you just are trying to do things to make them break up with you. Yeah.
00:32:31
Speaker
I don't know if you've ever done that. I've never done that, but I've thought about that. I can see how that would, yeah. Yeah. You're just like, oh, I don't want to have to go through the thing of like upsetting them. So maybe, maybe if I'm like, maybe they'll break up with me. That'd be good.
00:32:46
Speaker
So I think it's like, um I think I was a little bit in that headspace. So when they eventually said it's not happening, I was like, oh okay relief that's yeah because it was hard like that it was what the the writing and developing trying to make that show work was so much harder than I was expecting it to be um I just couldn't I couldn't crack it and I needed help from lots of other people who were helping me and it's just yeah I just I think I realized that
00:33:20
Speaker
Um, like there probably is a version of a TV show that I would really, really love doing, but I think I've just gotten so used to autonomy and just doing, you know, cause even like when we were doing the Hamish and Andy shows,
00:33:37
Speaker
Because Hames and Andy was so popular, um we didn't have to get the, like, go, it like, we didn't have to, like, run anything by the network. They essentially said, like, go make the show and we'll put it on air.
00:33:49
Speaker
And so that we didn't have to do it. Like, that was, like, 10 years of that. And so I just got really used to that incredible situation. And then making my own stuff online, obviously, just do whatever I want. And now with the podcast, it's the same. You know, a podcast, you can do whatever you want. So...
00:34:04
Speaker
I think that that sort of ah dynamic where you work with a network and it's, you know, because it's their money, they have a lot of input.
00:34:16
Speaker
I don't know. Like, I don't know if that's necessarily what I want to be doing at the moment. Yeah. And I really, really do resonate with the relief. Mum and i felt a huge amount of relief when it actually all fell over, which is so strange because, you know, it's the thing that you thought you wanted most in the world. And then all of a sudden it doesn't happen. And I think that relief then, you know, once it wore off,
00:34:44
Speaker
we then had to make the decision, well, do we try again or do we let it go? and for us personally, that was really, really hard. And we did choose to let it go as well.
00:34:55
Speaker
And it did still feel liberating in the relief. And we realized that that relief is so attached to fear, like actually the fear of success, actually someone saying yes, and then us not being able to deliver or us being a disappointment to them. Like, did you kind of feel any of that within that as well?
00:35:14
Speaker
Well, i i think the other really, really big kind of lesson I learned is just because the show didn't get up doesn't mean it was a waste of time.
00:35:25
Speaker
Like I actually, I actually, I feel like I'm better at writing because of that experience. And um like who know i might not not ever go into that situation again, but I feel like I've just learned a lot about Not only writing, but about myself, um, because, and I, and my relationship is ironically better because of it.
00:35:50
Speaker
Um, the show I was, the show i was writing was essentially about a really, really tough time in my relationship with Jam. when I was prioritizing my work over our relationship and was kind of like not, you know, I, she was like a ah distant second in what was important to me because I was like so busy and um making my own stuff. And I was like hardly ever seeing her or organizing anything for the two of us to do. And so it's this really, really hard time.
00:36:18
Speaker
And then, so I was making a show, which was about that, um, But the ironic thing about it was in writing that show, I had to think of myself as a character and and think of Jam as a character.
00:36:34
Speaker
and in doing And in looking at her and I as characters, sort of like from the outside in, I was able to see myself in a different way. Wow. Yeah. yeah And so, and so i was like, Oh, what does, okay. What does Ryan need to do in order to like, does Ryan want to stay in the relationship or does he not? It's like, yeah, Ryan wants to stay in the relationship. Okay. What does he need to do and how does he need to change and how, and like, you know, what's his obstacle?
00:37:00
Speaker
How does he get past that obstacle in order to become this new person who then lives happily ever after with jam. And so in, ah in, in ironically, thinking about myself as a character for the show, it helped me, um come to these realizations to be a better partner.
Writing Based on Personal Experience
00:37:19
Speaker
What a unique perspective. And also what a gift, like yeah yeah really, like you saying before, like you think, you know, this has bought so much, this has bought.
00:37:30
Speaker
Wow. Like this is quite life-changing. Yeah, it was. And so it got to the point where I was like, well, if this show doesn't get up, it kind of like, I've already gotten so much out of this show. So if it doesn't, if it happened, like i I really wanted it to happen because it would have been, i think it could have been really, really great.
00:37:48
Speaker
But from a personal point of view, i was like, well, I feel like I've gotten so much out of this show that if it doesn't happen, then it wasn't for nothing. Yeah, that's a really epic perspective and I can see why you have it because, yeah, very unique and, yeah, really cool.
00:38:03
Speaker
And I guess, yeah, it's it's hard, isn't it, when i guess you have they you have this show, right, and like you said, you actually you think it would be really funny, you think people would actually really like it and then it's like you've come to terms with the fact that it's not happening but there's still that like,
00:38:24
Speaker
Oh, what if it was out there? What if I could show you what I could do? And I've just recorded an episode on the Pass Around the Smile podcast about how success doesn't have to be loud to matter. But I think on social media and for us in the film and television industry, that's what success is.
00:38:40
Speaker
It's loud. It's in your face. It's complete things that are complete and finished and finalized. But I think we need to change that because we are finding fulfillment and happiness and joy and lessons through the process of things.
00:38:57
Speaker
And if we don't feel like shouting about it, if we don't win the award or if we don't complete the thing, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. It's like if you, you know, go on holiday and if you don't post a picture, did you even go?
00:39:09
Speaker
That's what I'm feeling into at the moment. And I'm feeling this pressure to like prove to everyone how much I'm doing and how successful I am or how happy I am. And it's like, just be.
00:39:20
Speaker
ah yeah. Yeah. i I mean, I'm not, I'm not much of a social media. I don't really post much of my personal life and haven't really ever done that. It's never felt really for me.
00:39:32
Speaker
um but, but it, I totally know what you mean because you're, it's so easy to get sucked into thinking that the thing that you put out there whether it's like a personal photo or a TV show, that that's the most important thing.
00:39:52
Speaker
And that's like, you know, like the content is king and content isn't king. Actually, I don't think probably, probably the most, um, uh, one of the most like life altering things I read um was just before The Carriage Should Be Disliked. I read, I'm sure you'd be across Gretchen Rubin. You know, Gretchen Rubin? No. She did The Happiness Project, a book called The Happiness Project.
00:40:21
Speaker
It'd be right up. Well, anything you suggest I do. So that'll be my next book. This is right in your wheelhouse. You'll love it. But she she talked about ah this idea of prioritizing the process over the product.
00:40:35
Speaker
And to me, up until that point, I'd always thought like, well, the most important thing is the product. And it doesn't matter. like I will work with shitty people.
00:40:47
Speaker
I will ruin my life. I'll do whatever is necessary to make sure that the product is the best because that's what I'll be judged upon. So it's like, who cares who cares about, you know, like how I don't see my partner, who cares? I don't see my friends, family, because I'm doing God's work.
00:41:05
Speaker
I'm like, I'm putting in the hours and I'm held to be around, but it's worth it because I'm making this incredible show that will hopefully like blow people's minds and make them think I'm fucking genius. Yeah.
00:41:19
Speaker
Like that's, that's what I used to think. Product is king. Content is king. Until I read this thing from Gretchen Rubin and she was like, no process is king. It's actually, absolutely cause like you could make, you know, and we all know this this feeling now because of social media, but it's like, you can spend ages on like a video or a photo, put heaps of thought into it and it gets two comments. Yeah.
00:41:45
Speaker
and And it's like, oh, well, fuck. That was a waste of time. i that was i spent was so stressed, so worried. um This was so important to me and it didn't work.
00:41:57
Speaker
so and And Jim Carrey talks about this really well because I think he talks i think he uses it in terms of like talking about his dad. And his dad, Jim Carrey's dad, I'm sure I'll mess this story up, but you'll get the gist.
00:42:11
Speaker
His... dad worked for like GE or something like some kind of like career life job where he like probably started in the mailroom at GE or something and when he was like 18 and then like rose the ranks and never like had a huge, huge, um, position. Like was always like a working class guy, but he worked there forever because that's what you used to do. You work at a company forever and it's like a job for life.
00:42:41
Speaker
And he didn't enjoy his job. Like he he, didn't like work, but he was a very, very funny guy. He was really funny. Like Jim Carrey says, like he gets all of his humor from his dad and, but his dad hated work, but like worked there forever.
00:42:57
Speaker
And then like one day when his dad was in his fifties or something, he got fired. Like they got laid off and, and that was it. It was like over. And, but he didn't, it's like, what was it all for? Yes. You had to work and you had to get money, but he, he parked his dream of doing comedy and being a performer, which is what his dad wanted to do because yes, he had to make money, but it was like, it was leading to nothing.
00:43:23
Speaker
I guess my point being is like, to talk about it more about myself, I guess, or my own situation, I could have done this TV show. I could have put, it would have put, it would have been like, don't know if it went really well the first season, then I'd get a second season and I would put in like, say it's probably got three years of my life.
00:43:47
Speaker
And that's going to be really, really intense obviously. And hopefully it's really fun, but I can't guarantee it's going to be really fun. It's to be really hard. But if I'm not prioritizing the process and I'm only prioritizing the 12 episodes that I make, and that's the most important thing, then i could very easily, and this happens all the time, I could very easily have a shit three years that are really hard and I don't see my friends and I don't do all the things that I love doing because I'm putting all of my work into this show.
00:44:19
Speaker
Show comes out and it does fine.
00:44:25
Speaker
And that's it. like And that's it. yeah It's like, it does fine. People, some people see it. It gets three and a half stars in the green guide from someone who hasn't actually watched it. yeah And it's like, it's like, it just sort of exists and gets lost in the noise.
00:44:43
Speaker
And what was it all for? And what was it all for? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, of course it's, um it can be really important if it's, you know, if it, is a great story and a great show and it kind of, uh, and it can, you know, entertain people and make them laugh. And that's all really, really important and great.
00:45:00
Speaker
And it's not that we shouldn't make things, but it's more about like you, if you, if you prioritize the process and instead of the product, then you can to some degree guarantee three years of fun And then my belief is if you prioritize the process, and this is Gretchen Rubin's belief as well, but my I've done it now and I've seen it work.
Enjoying the Process vs. Fixating on the End Product
00:45:23
Speaker
If you prioritize the process and make sure that the people you hire are the people are people you love, they might not be the best, but you love them and you love hanging out with them. You hire them, you work in like as balanced working hours as you can. You make sure you're doing fun things, all those sorts of obvious things that can fall by the wayside when you're not prioritizing it.
00:45:44
Speaker
then i reckon the product's going to be pretty good. It might not be as good, but I reckon it's like, but don't know, maybe 2% worse, 5% worse. It'll 100% be better, I reckon. And then also you've got to look back on the last three years of enjoyment.
00:46:01
Speaker
Exactly. And of honouring yourself, honouring your friends, honouring the people that you love, honouring where you're at. Like yep enjoying the process is so important. I could not agree more. And you said it you said it really well.
00:46:12
Speaker
It's kind of reminding me of when you guys had Bronnie Ware on the Imperfects, how it was like the the wishes of the dying yeah or the regrets of the dying, I should say. Regrets dying, yeah And, um, yeah, like there was so many of these people on their deathbed that just regretted not living a life that, well, they didn't have the courage to live a life that they wanted. Instead, they did what others expected of them and worked these jobs that they hated or focused on the end goal of a product or of a certain amount of money or a, you know, a retirement fund. And it's like, what's it, what's it all for though?
00:46:46
Speaker
I don't know if I said this in that episode, but I remember hearing an interview with a, with a, some very, very successful woman, business woman. and Um, and she was like reflecting on her life. And I think she was like probably in her fifties or sixties and being interviewed about her career and life.
00:47:04
Speaker
And, and she was asked like, do you have any regrets? And she said, oh yeah, i regret. i She's like, I wish I didn't take myself so seriously in my thirties. And, and cause she was like, i thought as we all, as of course, in ah and whatever age you are, you think that it's so important because you don't want to drop the ball you know and you want to whatever.
00:47:24
Speaker
But of course, when you get to like, I'm now 43 and it's like, I, I probably just like worked a little bit too hard and in my twenties and and youre you're in it. So you can't necessarily choose to get out of it. And it might be,
00:47:39
Speaker
necessary But I think the way that she put it, like, I i wish I didn't take myself so seriously is is a really interesting one to think about because I guess you can be working really hard, but not taking yourself so seriously or taking life work so seriously. Yeah. yeah And I think it's a good lesson for people like you and me who we are into self-development and we are into, you know, we do things for ourselves like psychology and all of that.
00:48:09
Speaker
And like, yes, there is 100% a place for it. It's what the imperfects and pass around the smile is basically all about. Now I'm just like shitting on our own businesses. But there there's a there's a there's a line. And I feel like too, you you're right. A lot of the time, and I think the world has become very politically correct, which is in some ways really, really good. But in some ways it can be...
00:48:33
Speaker
too serious sometimes. And it's like, we need to know when to be serious and when to not, and when to just let ourselves be and live and go easy on ourselves and easy on our friends and easy on the things that we're learning. Like nothing, it doesn't have to be so serious.
00:48:50
Speaker
Yeah, because it is. It's so, and it's and I really, and I'm guilty of this all the time, but it's so easy to get caught up in the the belief that this meeting or this presentation, if I fuck this up, then i can, I'm fucked.
00:49:12
Speaker
Like it ruins everything. And that may or may not be true, but like, how much does it really matter?
00:49:24
Speaker
I think it's like as long as you and your family and your loved ones are safe and healthy, everything outside of that actually doesn't matter. And I think this is a really
Cleo's Microphone Anxiety and Imperfection
00:49:35
Speaker
good time. doesn't matter as much as you think it does.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, 100%. Because it's like it's it it often does matter and you can't and it's it's obviously not binary, but it's like the degree to which you kind of like ah you're all in and letting your anxiety take over and be like, oh, this is...
00:49:52
Speaker
I need to, this needs to be perfect. If it's not perfect, then I fail and everyone's going to judge me and I'm not going to get what I really want. I have a personal example that I wasn't going to bring up, but I feel like I almost owe this to you for you being so vulnerable on the imperfects for so many years and for you teaching me so much.
00:50:11
Speaker
But i something has happened like just now, like in this podcast episode that yeah that you've just like kind of brought up yourself in that. So you have been number one on my guest wish list since I started creat like since i started my podcast two years ago. Number one, right?
00:50:29
Speaker
so I have been so excited but so nervous for this interview and I put so much importance on it being perfect.
00:50:40
Speaker
And last week I did a guest episode with someone and my microphone didn't work and I was super upset about it. I was like, oh, it sounds so unprofessional, it sounds awful, but I was like, no, I'm so thankful, Universe, because you are getting me ready for Ryan's to make Ryan's perfect, you know.
00:50:55
Speaker
I'm going to make sure my microphone works and all of that. Yeah, and I don't know it, I know it. yeah yeah I don't know if you noticed, but in the first five minutes of my of our podcast, I was a little bit distracted. I was looking here on my computer. I was like clicking a few things and inside my anxiety was rising because I realized my freaking microphone disconnected again.
00:51:19
Speaker
And I know it'll still take my voice, but my voice in some of this is probably going to sound really crappy. And a part of me died a little bit. I was like, this is the worst thing that could ever happen to me. This is my my dream guest. I have him on. I'm so prepared.
00:51:38
Speaker
I have... put this like on, I've put this experience on a pedestal and that pedestal feels far away from me, which I know it shouldn't, but that I think is something that I've developed in the film and TV world where I put people with, um, who I admire, but I put them far away from me.
00:51:57
Speaker
I put them unreachable and I know that you're a nice guy and I know that that's not the truth, but I think when something has been shown to be your truth in the past, like within the acting industry,
00:52:09
Speaker
where I have been, you know, like almost like ridiculed and told no and rejected and ghosted. These things come up. And I felt this in this interview. It was coming up.
00:52:19
Speaker
But you just said it at the end of the day on the scale of matter. It actually doesn't matter. Well, I'm really sorry that that you've been feeling like that. That's such a horrible, that is a horrible feeling. I know that feeling. It's the worst.
00:52:36
Speaker
It's the worst. But then, but it's like, if you were listening to a podcast that you loved, Would you care that the microphone wasn't perfect for a bit?
00:52:47
Speaker
No, not not at all. But why are we so hard on ourselves? Like why do we quickly jump to those fears of like, well, everyone is going to turn it off and they are going to, in fact, delete me from their following.
00:53:04
Speaker
And while they're at it, they are going to post on social media about how much I suck. Like why do we jump to that when it's so not true? More like Cleo Messi.
00:53:16
Speaker
Oh, I got called that in school. Oh, I'm sorry. Trigger warning. Triggered. Wow. Hang up the phone call. sorry, sorry. No, no. Yeah, God, that is, it's, a it's it yeah, really, really no one, it doesn't matter.
00:53:31
Speaker
it just doesn't matter. No. And while we are on the kind of in the film and television world, we're talking about this, ah ah something that I have found old Cleo. So when I say old Cleo, old Cleo is the c Cleo that only had acting and and writing and producing, but was only in the film and television world. So obviously there's a version of Ryan that that's your truth as well before the imperfect.
00:53:57
Speaker
And I don't know about you, but I look at that back at that version of me and I feel a little bit sick in the tummy because I look back at how desperate out I was to achieve this dream and how unfulfilled. Like I actually used to sleep in on purpose so I would have less of the day because I felt so incredibly unfulfilled.
00:54:17
Speaker
And that makes me so sad. oh that's horrible. But I guess one thing that I have realized in my psychology is that I felt so irrelevant.
00:54:28
Speaker
H2O was such a big show and a lot of the other actors went on to immediate success and I didn't. And I felt left behind and I felt irrelevant. And what I've since realised is the feeling of irrelevance is such an awful thing for a human to feel. And I'm wondering if you have ever felt left behind or irrelevant.
00:54:46
Speaker
Oh, God, yes. Always. Constantly. Constantly. It's just crazy. Cause I like, I look at someone like you and I'm like, you've achieved so much. you I mean, yeah, but, but you could say the same about you. It's like, it's, I I've, I've done a lot of things.
00:55:05
Speaker
Um, but you know, like in a, in that in any moment, none of those things matter. Like in, when I'm, if I'm acting, if I've got like a small role on a film,
00:55:22
Speaker
And I've just done the scene with a couple of other people and the director comes out and praises the other guy um and doesn't say anything great to me.
00:55:34
Speaker
All of a sudden I'm like, well, I'm shit. I'm like, who cares that I've done all the other things? Who cares that I got asked to audition? Who cares that they then looked at my tape and said like, he's the one let's hire him.
00:55:48
Speaker
Who cares that I'm now like working with these incredible people? ah because these people believed in me. All I care about in this moment is that I'm not the favourite out of these two actors on screen. Like, I'm the shit one that you all wish wasn't here because I'm letting the team down and I'll never be hired again.
00:56:07
Speaker
And it's over. You're doomed. ah Thank you. Thank you for saying that because it's just like we all, whether you're in the film and television industry or not, to my community, you will you will resonate. I know you will because we all feel that way.
00:56:20
Speaker
And something that you were saying in there reminded me of something that you actually have said in one of your previous episodes where you had this big goal for so long that in the interim, all of the good things that you were doing in the meantime,
00:56:33
Speaker
you weren't actually like full on, like grateful for them or appreciating them because they weren't the big thing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's like, it all felt like a means, means to an end as opposed to, I couldn't, I couldn't fully enjoy the fact that, um, uh, I was,
00:56:54
Speaker
like the fact that I was living in New York with my best friends making a TV show for channel nine and we're producing it.
00:57:06
Speaker
and And I've got a role in it. I'm on screen and I'm doing some writing and I'm producing. And I'm kind of like one of the bosses here. Like I couldn't enjoy that. That was Hamish Eddie's gap here the first season.
00:57:18
Speaker
I couldn't enjoy that because there were in because the thing that I was carrying around for the entire time was like, yeah, yeah, I'll just get through this and then it'll be my my turn to have my show.
00:57:30
Speaker
And then that that that's that's the thing that will be really, that's what I'm really working towards. But I just have to like work on on this show for a bit and do my best and hopefully it can work out. But ultimately what I really want is, but if I had the perspective that I have now, hopefully I would have at the time been able to go like, how incredible is this like how lucky are like this is crazy and and i think this is probably pretty normal with people that you it's it's the stop and smell the roses thing but if i if i was able i just wish i could have like properly appreciated that more as opposed to what i was doing which was what i just said but also comparing myself to hames and andy and thinking like oh well you know
00:58:17
Speaker
That they get that. When do I get my turn? You know, just thinking about me, like, what do i you know, why am I missing out when I'm not missing out? I'm working on this incredible thing with my friends in New York City.
00:58:30
Speaker
Like it's crazy that I couldn't appreciate that. But that is, that is what we do. We do that all the time. We do as humans. I've started writing down in my journal the things that I'm appreciating at the time and dating them.
00:58:45
Speaker
So I will look back and when I'm like, oh, didn't slow down enough in the first year of my daughter's life, I will look back and read that actually, no, I did.
00:58:55
Speaker
Because I'm writing things like Cleo. You are looking at her, you are kissing her, you are squishing her. She is just gorgeous. And today you've just stared at her all day. Please know that when you feel you didn't do enough, you did. oh and that's so good. Yeah, I can look back at that and be like, I did because we i bet I bet, Ryan, you actually were grateful for you know being in New York and you know being there with Hamish and Andy, producing, you're on screen. I know, of course, there was a big part of you that was looking forward
00:59:27
Speaker
to your dream and working toward that and kind of pushing what you were doing at the time aside. But I bet there were big parts of you that really just let go and had fun and laughed and were present with your friends.
00:59:39
Speaker
But you forget because it's overpowered by this desire, this huge desire that became your identity. So don't be too hard on yourself. I don't No, you're probably right. You're probably right. I mean, yeah, we did have so much fun. There were incredible moments, but yeah, you probably, both things can be true.
00:59:55
Speaker
Both things can be true. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And just to finish off, I have taken a little excerpt of something that you said in ah your, it was the Patreon episode on Imperfects.
01:00:08
Speaker
yeah So you said, so much of my self-worth is attached to my achievements.
Self-Worth and Achievements
01:00:12
Speaker
I have this fear that if I stopped achieving things and creating things that people like, that people would want to spend time with me less and wouldn't like me as much.
01:00:23
Speaker
Can you expand on that for us? Because I can relate so much. It's something I realized kind of recently where I had this sort of real like existential worry that if the worry was that the only reason well, the main reason that a lot of people want to hang out with me or invite me to dinner parties or um do anything with me, and this is not my close, close friends, but I'm talking about like the extended, you know, people I meet, like new people I meet mainly. It's like the only reason they want to hang out with me is because I've got like a podcast which is doing well or maybe because I was like in this, I got this film role or whatever it might be.
01:01:06
Speaker
And so then I had the worry of like, God, if it if it went away, then am I only, you know, am I only as interesting as the work? Am I only as popular as lovable as the the work that I do?
01:01:21
Speaker
um Which is obviously, not obviously, I was going to say, was going to say, which is obviously not true, but I don't know if that's true or not. That might be true for some people.
01:01:32
Speaker
But the danger of it, obviously, is you go, it makes you think, well, I need to keep making, but I need to keep being impressive. So people will want to be my friend.
01:01:45
Speaker
And that's like, cause then, and then I think Jam, my partner, i think she kind of gave me this perspective. She was like, well, is that how you feel about people when you meet them? Like, do you only want to hang out with people who are impressive?
01:02:00
Speaker
And I'm like, well, maybe I'd want to meet them, but I don't want to like be there. I wouldn't want to like be their friends if I didn't actually like who they were. And so that's when I kind of realized it's like, oh, I guess that's probably not true, but it is a fear that I still have. i still do sometimes worry about that.
01:02:16
Speaker
oh Yeah, thank you for sharing. I think there was elements in that as well. And this is kind of what one of my last podcast was on as well is like, the relevance of an achievement.
01:02:28
Speaker
And as the years go on, you still achieved that thing. So you're still relevant. You're still the person who won that award or created that project just because it's now five years ago. Why do we have to keep one upping ourselves and creating again an achievement that's better or showing other people that we have still got it? Like we're not a has been.
01:02:50
Speaker
We're still here. We're still good enough. We're in your face. And it's that whole thing of success. like it has to be loud to have happened or to have mattered. And I think as a society, we need to start letting that belief or that need go because it creates so much pressure and then we don't enjoy the process, like back to what you were saying.
01:03:10
Speaker
Yeah. and Another thing that that's true. And another thing just popped into my head, which is sort of jumping back a bit, what we were talking about earlier, which ill is a thing that I just remembered someone told me.
01:03:23
Speaker
And it was sort of ah it's sort of around the idea of like expectations. and sort of having expectations of what, you know, you being disappointed because the thing that happened, the thing that you're doing isn't what you hoped it would be. And so you're like, you're not you know, it's, it feels bad because, but I remember someone saying to me once, I don't know where I heard this, but
01:03:47
Speaker
It's like an interesting, like an exercise you can do is almost like treat your life like it's a show you're watching and like you're a character in it obviously, but you don't know what's going to happen next.
01:04:03
Speaker
Hmm. So it's like you have a fairly good idea. So I've seen, I think I know what's going to happen, but I actually don't know. This will be really interesting to see what happens in this next episode of my life.
01:04:14
Speaker
And almost like it's sort of, I guess it's a presence exercise, way to kind of like not set these expectations, but to be like, okay, well, I'm, I've got this um podcast episode I'm doing.
01:04:26
Speaker
I think I know what's going to happen. Like I've read the blurb of the episode. Like I know what the vague premise of the episode is, but I don't know the details. i don't know what's going to happen. So that's going to be really interesting to see.
01:04:38
Speaker
And so it's sort of like treat your life as something. You don't know what's going to happen. you don't You don't know the future. You haven't seen the show. So just enjoy it. Enjoy the ride. Enjoy it.
01:04:50
Speaker
Yeah. And sit back and relax while you're doing it. What you've said really ties into what I'm all about with the law of attraction and essentially trusting the process and surrendering. Like let go of the attachment that we have to the outcome and enjoy the process of getting there because very often the outcome is so much better than what you had pictured for yourself. Like for you, Ryan, right now with your show, like that was the best thing that could have happened to you. And you know, because you are you. well i am me. I knew that this was my goal and that is going to be the best thing for me.
01:05:20
Speaker
But so many times I have been shown that while it could be absolutely heartbreaking when that dream is taken away or that goal crumbles, something so much more incredible than I ever could have imagined happens. And it wouldn't have happened if that other thing didn't fall through.
01:05:36
Speaker
it's just crazy the way life works. And yeah, you just got to ride the wave, don't you? You do And I can't even surf. So it's really tricky. That's tricky. and That's why I'm um i am getting surfing lessons so I can ride the wave of life.
01:05:51
Speaker
I'm really happy for you. Yeah, I'm scared of sharks. Terrifying. Yeah, I'm scared of sharks in life. Sharks and life. Sharks and life and sharks in life. yeah ah Ryan, honestly, I cannot
Episode Conclusion and Gratitude
01:06:05
Speaker
thank you enough. for My past around the smile community, ah just, I mean, they probably already love you, but they're going to be really excited to hear this conversation. and oh good. Yeah. I'm just really, really grateful.
01:06:16
Speaker
Oh, well, thank you, Cleo. So that was, that was really fun. I mean, it's just stuff I love talking about. it's obviously what we talk about in the podcast, but it's, but this stuff, like talking to you, like you're a performer. So you, we have such similar ideas and experiences. And so, yeah, it was really, really fun.
01:06:33
Speaker
Thanks so much. Oh no, you are so welcome. I will put all the links to Ryan, his social media, which he doesn't use much, but he's on there. Actually, everyone, please go and watch. It's, it's pinned on Ryan's Instagram account. It's called scene. It's a short film he created. Was it when you were doing your, your days of creativity?
01:06:55
Speaker
Yeah, it was in 2020, 2021, I set myself a task of making and releasing ah new video every month. And it was released on the 11th of every month. And Scene was the final thing I did. Yeah.
01:07:08
Speaker
It's so funny. It's so good. It's such a good film. Please go and watch it. and i Well, it ties in it ties in with a lot of the stuff we just spoke about.
01:07:19
Speaker
Literally, like for all of the actors and the producers and the writers, anyone in creative industries that is listening to this podcast, you will resonate and you will die with laughter because you will have been there before.
01:07:32
Speaker
It's just so funny. And, but yeah, I'll also put ah the links to the Imperfects below, the exact episode. That pretty much changed my life. So I'll put that in the show notes. And thank you so much, Ryan.
01:07:46
Speaker
Thanks, Cleo. Thank you so much for listening to this very special episode. Make sure you let me know via the Spotify comments or Apple podcast reviews, what you thought of the episode, what you took away from it. I love to hear it.
01:07:59
Speaker
And a huge thank you to LSKD for sponsoring this episode. All the links for the LSKD discount are in the show notes.