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Take the Baton: Catherine Switzer, 261 Fearless & the Future of Women’s Running | Dr Juliette McGrattan
46 Plays1 hour ago
In this episode of the UKRunChat Podcast, Michelle is joined by Dr Juliette McGrattan, co-founder of 261 Fearless Club UK, to talk about the upcoming 261 Fearless UK Women’s Running Conference taking place in Bicester on 13th September 2025.
Themed Take the Baton, the conference celebrates the past, present, and future of women’s running. Keynote speakers include Kathrine Switzer, the first woman to officially run the Boston Marathon, and GB ultra-runner Sophie Power, founder of She Races.
Juliette shares the story behind 261 Fearless, the ethos of its UK running groups, and what attendees can expect from this one-of-a-kind event. From empowering panels with women’s running group founders to practical sessions and networking opportunities, this conference promises goosebumps, laughter, and inspiration for every runner.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to UK Run Chat Podcast and Guest
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Hello, welcome to the UK Run Chat podcast. I'm Michelle and today I'm joined by Dr Juliette McGratton to tell you all about the 261 Fearless Club UK Women's Running Conference, which is due to take place in Bicester on the 13th September.
00:00:15
UKRunChat
The theme is Take the Baton and it's celebrating the history of women's running, sharing some knowledge and looking forward to the future of women's running and it has one very special guest. um as well as a whole host of running celebrities and
Overview of Women's Running Conference
00:00:30
UKRunChat
athletes that you'll recognise. So I'll hand over to Juliette to let her tell you the rest. Hi, Juliette. Thanks for joining us today. Would you like to give us an overview of what the conference is?
00:00:39
Juliet
Hi, Michelle. Yes, I'd love to because I'm really excited about this conference and I just want to tell everyone all about it and give you all the chance to come along. So, yes, September the 13th in Bicester.
00:00:52
Juliet
Take the bat on. Now, we you we can maybe talk about this, but we have a very special guest.
Historic Role of Catherine Switzer in Women's Running
00:00:59
Juliet
Our keynote headline keynote speaker is Catherine Switzer.
00:01:03
Juliet
And Catherine was the first woman to officially run the Boston Marathon back in 1967. But the tried to but the official tried to throw her out of the race when he spotted that she was a woman.
00:01:15
Juliet
um And she was an amazing advocate and really made such big change in women's running and is one of the people that enabled you and I to be on the start lines of of marathons and any running events these days.
00:01:29
Juliet
So she was coming to the UK and she offered to speak for us and to do an event for our members um because we have a club 261 Fearless Club.
00:01:42
Juliet
Now, we just thought this was too good an opportunity to just keep to ourselves and to just share with our members. So we decided go go big or go home. And we've organised a full day's conference starting at 9.15 right through to 4.30.
00:01:57
Juliet
And we have Catherine speaking. she will tell us all about um how the changes that she enabled in in women's running. She's also bringing her husband, Roger Robinson. Now, Roger is actually um an elite athlete and an incredible storyteller and running historian.
00:02:15
Juliet
He's a highly um award-winning, highly published author of ah running history books. And he's got some, just some wonderful stories to tell. So,
00:02:26
Juliet
Catherine and Roger are going to kind of cover the past and the history of of
Speakers Advocating for Gender Equality
00:02:30
Juliet
women's running. And then we're going to bring it through into the present um and move to the future. So we've got Lisa Jackson, um who I'm sure every every runner who's been last or run slowly will have heard of. Again, incredible author and an advocate for slow running.
00:02:47
Juliet
um She's coming to to, again, to share her views on on women's running. through the years that she's been running her 100 plus marathons. um And then we take it to the future and we've got Sophie Power, GB ultra runner and Guinness World Record holder.
00:03:03
Juliet
um And i don't know, you probably know the story of of Sophie. She, a photograph of her went viral. It was her breastfeeding her child during an ultra running event.
00:03:15
Juliet
And she used that platform that she gained from that viral photograph to
Catherine Switzer's Boston Marathon Story
00:03:20
Juliet
make change. And she founded She Races which is an organization which helps to ensure equity in start at start lines for women to encourage and enable more women to feel confident to enter races and to have the same experience as men and to do things like adapt the guidelines and the protocols so you can defer your race if you're pregnant and all sorts of wonderful initiatives.
00:03:44
Juliet
So those are our keynote speakers. This is sounding like a monologue. do you want me to carry on with that the panelists or shall I briefly pause?
00:03:49
UKRunChat
Yeah, well just yeah, just let me jump in a minute and just ask a little bit more about each of those and those speakers, because that's a fantastic line.
00:03:56
Juliet
Yeah.
00:03:59
UKRunChat
We have had Sophie on the podcast actually. and just before her, because she's just hosted the first SheRace, hasn't she, um the Ultra, this summer.
00:04:08
Juliet
Yes.
00:04:10
UKRunChat
and So she came on a couple of months ago to tell us all about that. And she she is doing some wonderful things for women's running, isn't she, in equality. that would be really interesting.
00:04:18
Juliet
Absolutely.
00:04:19
UKRunChat
Yeah, so just tell us a bit more about Catherine's story, because she she really did, and because didn't she... um she registered for the boston marathon under ah her just her initial didn't she is that right so that they didn't know was a woman
00:04:36
Juliet
she She did. No, it wasn't so she didn't know. And this is one of the myths and things she's going to clear up. She entered with her initials KV Switzer because she wanted to be a journalist and and a writer.
00:04:44
UKRunChat
yeah
00:04:48
Juliet
And she'd seen authors at that time, um ah you know, just using their initials. I mean, now we might say JK Rowling. You know, it's just it's just what what you say, isn't it?
00:04:56
UKRunChat
yeah
00:04:58
Juliet
So that's why she entered with that name. Her um coach and her had checked the rule book. And it didn't say that women weren't allowed. It was just assumed that they wouldn't because they couldn't.
00:05:12
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:05:13
Juliet
So she didn't didn't deceive anybody to enter. On the morning of the race, it was very wet and cold. And her coach went and collected all the bib numbers for his university entrance.
00:05:28
Juliet
um She was at Syracuse University. And So he just gathered, he just collected Catherine's bib. So it wasn't until the race official spotted her about two miles into the race that anybody, you know, had any complaint that there was a woman. The runners all around Catherine at the beginning were really supportive and saying, yeah, yeah, great. She she got so much support from the men on the course.
00:05:51
Juliet
So, yeah, that's really important. But she didn't she didn't deceive anybody to enter.
00:05:54
UKRunChat
Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's great. and I mean, from from your perspective, what lessons kind of from her story then still resonate for women runners today? I mean, we obviously have, we're obviously couldn couldn't feel like we can all start, you know, on a marathon start line now.
00:06:13
UKRunChat
and Is there anything you particularly looking forward to hearing her speak about or learn from?
00:06:18
Juliet
um what i What I love is, I mean, a lot of people have seen the pictures of Boston.
00:06:22
UKRunChat
yeah
00:06:23
Juliet
It's always really amazing to hear the story in her own words because, it yeah, you you get the real truth, but you also understand what happened during and after the race. So she was absolutely terrified that this guy was running at her, trying to grab her bib number off her, which was 261.
Symbolism of the Number 261
00:06:46
Juliet
Um, and, but she said she, to start with, she was really scared. She thought that she thought they may be, cause her boyfriend body blocked him and ah ejected this guy, um, Jock Semple from the course. And she thought that maybe they'd even killed him.
00:07:00
Juliet
So she was just terrified.
00:07:00
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:07:01
Juliet
Her coach was like, run like hell. So she ran first. She was scared. Then she whisper said she went through all the emotions, being terrified and then being, um determined that she had to finish because she had to prove women could do it. And then being angry about where were all the women? Why was she the only one there?
00:07:20
Juliet
And then going, she said, you can't be angry for 26 miles. Then this turned into a absolute, I have to finish and I have to make some change. And it's that change after that event that I really think that people don't know the story of so well, how she then went on to, um,
00:07:38
Juliet
yeah, increase the number of women participating in running to put on an an all women's marathon, which eventually led to to the women's marathon being included in the Olympics, which didn't happen until the 80s.
00:07:51
Juliet
So it's all that bit kind of post post the grabbing of the numbers through to the end of the event and then the years that followed um that I think is I'm really looking forward to to hearing. And I think everybody will will love to listen to that.
00:08:06
UKRunChat
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, there's i think there's a lot of mythology surrounding it, isn't there? Like it is part of the running landscape. that I'm sure we've all, all of you out there listening have heard of Catherine Switzer, so I'm sure it be wonderful to listen to her speaking.
00:08:19
UKRunChat
and So she she went on to set up 261 Fearless. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
00:08:25
Juliet
Yeah, so she said that when that number was being grabbed off her and she was really scared, ah that she had to overcome it and she had to she had to move forward, she had to move on. And so 261 has kind of become a um a symbol of being fearless in the face of adversity, if you like.
00:08:44
Juliet
And
Mission of 261 Fearless Club UK
00:08:45
Juliet
she said that women started writing to her in the years afterwards saying, I write 261 on my hand because it reminds me to be fearless when I'm going into a job interview or so situations like that.
00:08:57
Juliet
And when people, women started writing and saying that they've got a tattoo with it on, she thought, okay, right, ah need to do I need to do something with this.
00:09:04
UKRunChat
clouds.
00:09:07
Juliet
And that's when she buddied up with ah Edith Zushman, who's a a running coach in Austria. who um um who had become very good friends with Catherine and Edith at that time was was looking at a different kind of of of women's running group, things that were very non-pressured, um very judgment-free, not training on pace or time to to try and encourage more women into running. And and then Catherine came up with this this statement about 261. And so it was decided to, yeah, let let's create a global women's running network that's actually not about marathons.
00:09:43
Juliet
um that's not about racing. It's just about putting one foot in front of the other and using running to empower you. Because I mean, you know yourself, when you suddenly realize you can, it doesn't have to be a marathon, you know, you can, when suddenly rest you can actually run, um that you you realize you can do so many other things in life, it kind of gives you this superpower.
00:10:04
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's that's right. It's a wonderful feeling, isn't it? I still remember finishing my first 5k race and feeling like I could do anything. It's it's it's an incredible feeling. and you you You, of course, are involved as um a run leader yourself as well, aren't you?
00:10:19
UKRunChat
do You set up and the UK branch, is that right?
00:10:20
Juliet
Yeah. Yeah. so I've got lots of roles in 261 Phyllis. I actually work um for the global organization doing, because I, am my roles previously in, as a GP and in women's running and health, I actually help.
00:10:34
Juliet
I'm the sort of women's health lead for the organization and and manage the education programs for all the coaches. I'm also a master coach. So I train coaches, train women to become coaches um and, um,
00:10:47
Juliet
I am also a coach myself. So we have a group here in in Lancaster and i'm I'm one of the coaches at that. And I really wanted, when I, you know, when I'd heard this story and I'd met Catherine personally, I really wanted to bring this network to the UK. So I founded 261 Fearless Club UK with my friend Nikki at the
Focus on Inclusivity and Non-Competitive Running
00:11:06
Juliet
time.
00:11:06
Juliet
um And we now have four directors on our board and eight groups around the UK that all sort of fit with this 261 Fearless kind of ethos of,
00:11:17
Juliet
healthy, sustainable, good technique, women's running, but most of all, without pressure and with an awful lot of fun and laughter to try and improve people's relationship with with running and with their bodies. um Just let them realise how much they can gain in their lives if they can run.
00:11:34
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's wonderful. So what what kind of running do you do within your club then? Do you do kind of special kind of structured sessions?
00:11:40
Juliet
Yes, it's really...
00:11:44
Juliet
Yeah, we call it a meat run and it's not like a traditional running club at all.
00:11:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:49
Juliet
We don't have different groups for different paces or set distances and things. We spend probably about 25, sometimes 30 minutes of the run actually just doing a very sociable chatty run where everybody stays together and loops back and um There's no you no one's left behind.
00:12:06
Juliet
um And that we also do a lot of a lot of running games, um running technique, running drills and strength work ah because we we want to help women run, but we want to help them run run well because we don't want them to get injured. we want them to run forever for the rest of their lives. So we spend a good portion of the session doing that, which um has lots of purposes. Again, you know, the running games create a lot of laughter.
00:12:29
Juliet
Women can forget about everything outside of their day. of the session you know you're not they're not there thinking about their daily lives and their jobs and what they've got to do when they get home because we're playing games which require a lot of concentration it's kind of a bit of a bit of a running holiday girls night kind of thing um and um the the strength and the drills and all of that is really to help improve technique and make running more efficient because you make it more efficient it makes it easier and it's hard enough isn't it
00:12:42
UKRunChat
yeah
00:12:57
UKRunChat
yeah oh it is yeah especially when you get to our time of life yeah absolutely that sounds lots of fun are you looking to grow that within the yeah UK then you're looking for more than
00:13:01
Juliet
Oh, yes.
00:13:08
Juliet
Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yeah, all definitely. I mean, what we need is volunteers. And, you know, these days it's it's harder and harder to get people to volunteer, but our coaches are all volunteers.
00:13:15
UKRunChat
yeah
00:13:20
Juliet
And we're they go through a really significant amount of training and ongoing
Challenges in Expanding Women's Running Clubs
00:13:25
Juliet
education. So it's ah a wonderful opportunity to learn more yourself about running and running technique and also kind of self-improvement learning leadership skills.
00:13:36
Juliet
So we're always on the lookout. if If we've got a new group starting in a new, completely new area, always ask for three women to do it together because we've, we've learned that it's a, it's a team sport and,
00:13:44
UKRunChat
yeah
00:13:48
Juliet
we you need to be be able to put sessions on consistently and deliver good quality and and it has and not put too much stress on yourself you don't want to do it on your own so um we always ask for three people in a new group um
00:14:01
UKRunChat
Yeah, that sounds really sensible. I've i've been in that position before starting a running club up and it is it is difficult, isn't it? it's Especially if if it's just you, you feel like it's a lot to manage. That's very sensible.
00:14:12
Juliet
Yeah, and if you're managing very mixed abilities, which we do because we don't divide into different groups because we want to keep everyone together for the social side, then yeah, there's a lot to learn. there's a lot of skill and and it does take more than than one of you, definitely.
00:14:25
UKRunChat
yeah so so if pete if somebody's out there listening and thinking i've got a group of of friends who would be willing to start a group in our area um how can they how can they get the ball rolling on that yeah
00:14:34
Juliet
Oh, give me a ring. Well, no, honestly, if you head to 261fearless.org, that's the the main sort of global website.
00:14:40
UKRunChat
yeah
00:14:45
Juliet
And on there, there's ah there's a button about being a coach. And if you click on there, um it'll take you through.
00:14:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:50
Juliet
What we do is we have online um kind of info sessions, completely pressure-free, just come along for an hour online, have a listen. And we talk all about what it means to be a coach.
00:15:03
Juliet
and what you need to do, etc. And we've actually got one just after the the conference itself.
00:15:13
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:15:14
Juliet
um I'm actually flicking through my phone here to tell you what date it's on.
00:15:17
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:17
Juliet
um So the conference is on the 13th and then on Tuesday the 16th at 7pm we've got um a UK info session. So that will be all about becoming a coach. so that And you can sign up for that on on on the website.
00:15:32
Juliet
or at the conference, because you're going to come to the conference and you can hear more and learn more.
00:15:34
UKRunChat
Yes. So was going to say, you are kind of hosting the whole thing, aren't you? So you're like, you're introducing all the speakers and on the panel. Yeah.
00:15:42
Juliet
um
00:15:43
UKRunChat
where about the and what
00:15:44
Juliet
Well, we've got we've got more than one host, so i'm I'll be hosting a little bit.
00:15:44
UKRunChat
facebook yeah
00:15:47
Juliet
im I'm hoping that my other three directors will um reluctantly yeah get up and grab the microphone as well.
00:15:52
UKRunChat
thank you
00:15:54
Juliet
um And also as a host, we have Holly Taylor from Women's Running Magazine and Women's Running Magazine podcast. She is going to be hosting a panel talk, which we've got, which I maybe can tell you about.
00:16:05
Juliet
And she's also going to be doing a kind of a Q&A with Catherine to ask the questions about Boston that we really want to know.
00:16:13
UKRunChat
Yeah. So what what do you really want to know about Boston, Juliet?
00:16:18
Juliet
Well, I'm really privileged because I have spent a lot of time with Catherine over the years and had the opportunity to ask her all sorts of things and and hear the story.
00:16:21
UKRunChat
You have? Yeah.
00:16:28
Juliet
But I'll never tire of hearing the story in her own words. So I'm looking forward to maybe not asking other questions, but watching everybody else listen to her and and ask their questions.
00:16:37
UKRunChat
Yeah. ah that's lovely. So what other sorts of topics will you be discussing on the day within your panel?
00:16:45
Juliet
So the panel is Fearless Founders. So we have gathered women who have started UK women's running groups to bring us all together.
00:16:58
Juliet
um i think ah think the view is that maybe we're all kind of competing against each other, but we really want to say no. I know these women and we're not competitors.
00:17:09
Juliet
We we' are really are kind of colleagues. There are more than enough women to go around. So we kind of wanted to bring... These women son ah found running group founders together to say, look, let's honour the past, let's celebrate where we are and let's let's move forward together.
00:17:25
Juliet
ah So we've got Mel Bound from This Woman Runs, Tasha Thompson from Black Girls Do Run UK and Jessica Malloy from um Asian Girls Run. And we think we might have a late entry for one more, but I better not mention the name in case in case it doesn't happen.
00:17:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:41
Juliet
um But we just want to chat about how can we work together?
00:17:43
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:44
Juliet
what what What are the stumbling blocks? What do we need? How can we all, and including the audience, you know unite together to to bring more and more women into running? So it i want it to be a really positive um call for change, really,
Accessibility and Inclusivity in Women's Running
00:17:59
Juliet
and call to arms, call to let's come on.
00:17:59
UKRunChat
yeah
00:18:01
Juliet
We can all do our bit. We can all be role models. We can all ask other women to join. We can all spread the word and and how can we all yeah work together?
00:18:10
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, its it's true that, isn't it? Sometimes we just need to see another woman running and that can be enough, can't it, to inspire us to get out. What?
00:18:20
Juliet
Yeah, definitely. I think we all underestimate um our own ability to be an influencer.
00:18:22
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:25
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
00:18:26
Juliet
Really.
00:18:27
UKRunChat
what ah What are your personal hopes for the future of women's running? What do you think we still need to work on over the next, say, five, ten years? Yeah.
00:18:35
Juliet
Oh, goodness. I'm not prepared for the panel yet. Let me think. I've got to write the questions.
00:18:41
UKRunChat
Thank
00:18:41
Juliet
and
00:18:44
Juliet
I still think, even though we as run groups say we're for all levels, beginners are welcome, there are still so many women who do not have the courage to come along because they do fear that they're going to be left behind.
00:19:05
Juliet
they're too slow, that then they they're not good enough, they're not real runners. um And I think that we just need to, i mean, social running is really, you know,
00:19:17
Juliet
become much more of a thing especially with park run um although i still know many women even from our running group who won't go to park run because it involves being timed and even though you know it doesn't matter and you can walk that you know so we we sometimes take women by the hand literally and and take them along so there's still this kind of gap between wanting to do it and
00:19:27
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:38
Juliet
and actually doing it. um And when you've got women that are ready to change their behaviour and want to do things, then i think that's such an amazing opportunity.
00:19:49
Juliet
But we need help in finding those women and we need to spread, we need to do actually have groups that do what they say they do. Because I do know beginners who've gone along to a group which have said it's for beginners and they've immediately been asked what pace they run and then they've literally gone back to their car and left because they don't even know.
00:20:07
UKRunChat
um Yeah. i
00:20:08
Juliet
um So ah for me, it's it's not just keeping women in running once they've started, it's just bridging that gap and making running as accessible and and inclusive as we can.
00:20:20
Juliet
And how do we do that? lot I think there's lots of things we can do and I think that's kind of what we we need to discuss.
00:20:26
UKRunChat
Yeah, ah well yeah I think there's some really interesting points up for debate on the Saturday the 13th of September then, isn't it, by the sounds of it. Yeah, hopefully you can you can find out what general consensus of the audience is as well. so So tell us again, so is there anything else we need to know about the conference? It's on the 13th of September.
00:20:44
UKRunChat
um You can get tickets via the 261 Club UK website.
Conference Logistics and Closing Remarks
00:20:49
Juliet
yes so that's 261 club uk.co.uk um and i just also want add it's going to be fun as well um we've got everyone to come in their running kit we're going to do some going to do some activities at lunchtime um from our sort of 261 uh meet run type thing so be prepared to
00:20:53
UKRunChat
Yeah. and Yeah. Oh, OK.
00:21:09
Juliet
play some running games and have a little bit of move of movement.
00:21:12
UKRunChat
but
00:21:12
Juliet
We don't want any eyelid battles and the, um, there's going to be a hot lunch.
00:21:13
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:21:16
Juliet
going pastries. Um, it's going to be time to, it's not an enormous event. So there is going to be, you know, opportunities for you to meet the panelists and the speakers, um,
00:21:28
Juliet
the books will be on sale you can get them signed it's going to be um a real opportunity for quite an uh almost an intimate kind of experience with with these uh these amazing women so yeah ah so yeah lots of laughter as well and i i just feel like i just want there to be lots of goosebumps moments and for everyone to go away feeling really and inspired and and and wanting to desperately go for a run
00:21:42
UKRunChat
yeah
00:21:45
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:21:52
UKRunChat
Yeah, no, it's, it sounds like it's going to be an incredible event. So if you're out there listening and have nothing else to do on the 13th of September, then do book your tickets to hear some really inspiring speakers um and hopefully help with inspiring your own running.
00:22:10
UKRunChat
um Juliet, thank you so much for joining us today. um And we, yeah, we wish you all the best. And we we will post the links to the event in the show notes.
00:22:20
Juliet
Oh, thank you so much, Michelle.
00:22:20
UKRunChat
So that yeah.
00:22:23
Juliet
Thank you for giving me me a chance to speak about it. You can tell I'm feeling quite excited and quite passionate about it.
00:22:26
UKRunChat
I can tell you're very excited about it. Yeah.
00:22:30
Juliet
Just as well the video's not on because I'm kind of jiggling around. But yes, ah please, please come and support us and and learn.
00:22:33
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:22:36
UKRunChat
up
00:22:38
Juliet
Yeah.
00:22:38
UKRunChat
Yes, I'll thank you. Well, that's, yes, that's 261clubuk.co.uk for tickets. I'm up at the link in the show notes. Thank you all for listening today. And thank you for your time, Julia. Much appreciated.
00:22:48
Juliet
Thank you.
00:22:48
UKRunChat
and we will see you on the next episode.