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Lisa Jackson: Finding Joy Again | A Runners Journey Through Grief
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This week, Michelle chats with Lisa Jackson, Runner’s World columnist, 100 Marathon Club member, and author of Running Made Easy, Your Pace or Mine?, and her brand new memoir Still Running After All These Tears: A Runner’s Journey Through Grief.
Lisa shares how running helped her rebuild her life after loss, what finishing last in 25 marathons has taught her about success, and how we can all rediscover our running mojo when motivation fades. With warmth and humour, she reminds us that running is about finishing lines, not finishing times.
We talk about:
- Finding joy again through running after losing your mojo
- How to cope when injury, illness or life pauses your running journey
- What coming last in marathons has taught her about mindset
- The role of community and connection in healing
- How running and mental strategies from hypnotherapy can support grief recovery
- The importance of friendship, laughter and showing up, one mile at a time
If you need support:
If you’re struggling with grief, loss, or feeling low, please reach out.
- Samaritans – Call 116 123 (UK, free and 24/7)
- Cruse Bereavement Support – Support for anyone grieving
- Mind – Mental health support and information
Still Running After All These Tears: A Runner’s Journey Through Grief is available from 8 January 2026
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Finding Motivation
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Hello, welcome to this episode of the UK Run Chat Podcast. I'm Michelle and today i'm joined by a very familiar name that I hope you all recognize, Lisa Jackson.
00:00:12
UKRunChat
Lisa is an author, she's a 100 marathon club member, she's a Runners World columnist and a brand new book, Still Running After All These Tears, is out now. Now Lisa's known for her humour, her honesty and for coming last in more than 20 marathons I believe.
00:00:31
UKRunChat
which is something that Lisa celebrates as much as any PB. In her latest book, she shares how running has helped to rebuild her life and rediscover some joy after an incredibly tough a few years.
00:00:42
UKRunChat
So we'll be talking today about finding your running mojo again, and what finishing last can teach you as well, and why running continues to be one of life's greatest teachers. Lisa, welcome to the podcast.
00:00:52
UKRunChat
Thanks so much for coming on today.
00:00:54
Lisa Jackson
Oh, it's just so wonderful to be here Michelle. Thank you for having me.
00:00:57
UKRunChat
Yeah, I'm so excited. so Lisa, just briefly for anyone who doesn't already know your story, how do you kind of usually describe your relationship with running?
00:01:07
Lisa Jackson
Well, it's definitely a love-hate relationship. I find running incredibly challenging and it hasn't mattered whether I'm super fit enough to enter the and complete the Comrades Ultramarathon, which is 56 miles, or whether I'm trying to finish a park run.
00:01:20
Lisa Jackson
I always find it difficult. So um I'm known for coming last. I've actually come last in 25 times in marathons. But my kind of catchphrase is lost but having a blast. So I truly believe it's about finishing lines, not finishing times.
00:01:35
Lisa Jackson
um I believe that I get more value for money by running for longer. i definitely get to meet more people and have a chance to chat to more people because I don't think the fast runners do all that much chatting. Although I have been reliably informed, they do actually have a little bit of banter at the front.
00:01:49
Lisa Jackson
But the best banter is obviously at the back. So i went from absolutely hating any kind of sports, never played sports at school, didn't get picked for teams, just avoided sports completely. I i faked athletes foot for five years so that I didn't have to swim at school.
00:02:06
Lisa Jackson
And then when I was 30, I sort of realized my life was at a crossroads. I could either follow the path of my parents, who were running half marathons together before breakfast while i was on holiday, or could go down the path I was going down, which was sitting miserably on the sofa at Christmas, eating Stilton out of a jar with a spoon.
00:02:25
Lisa Jackson
And I was feeling not very good about myself. And I just thought, I want to get fit now. So I entered a race for life. Absolutely loved it because it wasn't about being competitive, which I wasn't I mean, I'm just not competitive. It doesn't matter, you know, what I do, I'm not ever going to be fast.
00:02:40
Lisa Jackson
um And then I went on to do the Great North Run, which I could not believe I had done. i mean, when we came home, on the bus from South Shields, I was just like, we actually ran all this way on the feet I am looking at right now.
00:02:57
Lisa Jackson
This is with my auntie Rosemary, who was a massive influence in my life, a massive running companion. She did eight marathons with me. And then she was always trying to get into the London and Marathon. She tried six times already and a colleague of mine at Zest, like when she saw my joy at finishing the Great North Run, I probably never ever let anyone walk past me without saying, excuse me, did you know I did the Great North Run?
00:03:17
Lisa Jackson
So heard all about it and she said, would you like my London Marathon Media Place because I'm too injured to run it. just couldn't believe it. So I asked my aunt if she would like to get a charity place.
00:03:29
Lisa Jackson
And we built both fundraised for her place. and um And we did London
Memorable Marathon Experiences
00:03:33
Lisa Jackson
together. But I had to walk half the way because I had a really bad injury. And I just thought, well, I can't i still can't say run a marathon because I haven't. I've only run half a marathon.
00:03:41
Lisa Jackson
So I thought I'll enter one more, just one, just to you know say I've done it. So I entered Edinburgh. And I ran all the way in Edinburgh, took a massive chunk of time off my time, but I couldn't walk properly for three weeks afterwards. I was such a wreck.
00:03:55
Lisa Jackson
And the agony during the race was also something that had to be seen to be believed. I mean, I was just running like this, ugh. ah like groaning. And then in my mind, I was saying, i am fit.
00:04:06
Lisa Jackson
I am strong. I will run this marathon, you know, and I did finish it. um And then the thing was the elation and having finished it, I just thought, okay, just one more, just one more.
Running, Marriage, and Personal Loss
00:04:17
UKRunChat
Bye.
00:04:18
Lisa Jackson
So I entered Paris and I was injured again. And I was lying in bed and my husband looked at me and he said, you've got your stress face on Lisa. And I said, yeah, because I don't think I'm going to finish tomorrow. And I just read in the race brochure, it just said, if you're scared of not finishing, why don't you try walk running?
00:04:32
Lisa Jackson
And I thought, well, I've got nothing to lose. and So I did it the next day. and My aunt said, no way, I am not walking off to, you know, five minutes. That's ridiculous. I'm off, bye. which was quite funny, and off she trots and um I carry on doing my walk running.
00:04:44
Lisa Jackson
I caught her up at about 40k and ah she was walking and I said, well, come with me. I'm totally fresh now. I can run the rest of the way. i'm just feel amazing. And she went, no, I can't run another step.
00:04:56
Lisa Jackson
So she lent me her running buddy. And off this woman trots at the most remarkable pace you've ever seen. She'd done 50 marathons, so she was super fast. And I wanted to listen to all these stories of the 50 marathons, so I tried to keep up with her. And I smashed my time by 10 minutes faster than when I'd run all the way. And my recovery was three days rather than three weeks.
00:05:15
Lisa Jackson
And that led me to write my first running book, which was called and Running Made Easy, which was all about walk running and the 60-second secret, which is starting to run just for 60 seconds at a time.
00:05:18
UKRunChat
yeah
00:05:25
Lisa Jackson
And that was before the Couch to app. um And then the marathon addiction continued. I ended up writing a second book, which has now been on the bestseller to all for 10 years called um Your Pace or Mine.
00:05:36
UKRunChat
I love, I love that book.
00:05:36
Lisa Jackson
I'll hold it up if anyone recognize it.
00:05:38
UKRunChat
It's a fabulous book.
00:05:38
Lisa Jackson
Oh, thank you so much.
00:05:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:05:40
Lisa Jackson
And obviously, this book isn't just about me. It's about the amazing people I met, you know, on the way, like running with 80 year old runners who fall over three times in a marathon and still finish or cancer survivors, just the stories, you know, just absolutely incredible.
00:05:53
Lisa Jackson
So I read that book and it did really well. um And I was loving my running and I managed to join the 100th marathon club ah by running in one year. In 2015, I ran 28 marathons in one year.
00:06:04
Lisa Jackson
So I can sit in at the time I thought it would take me to a much shorter period. And it was wonderful. But at the end of that 100th marathon, you everyone was asking me, um will you continue running marathons? And I said, actually, no, you know, i want to stay married.
00:06:18
Lisa Jackson
And I know I've been neglecting my husband because he hated running, although he did 30 marathons and two comrades against his will.
00:06:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:06:23
Lisa Jackson
He hated it, totally hated it. And I just said, no, I really need to spend more time with my husband. And I'm so glad I made that decision because very soon after that, just about 18 months afterwards, I did do another 10 marathons, but my husband was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer caused by asbestos.
00:06:29
UKRunChat
yeah
00:06:42
Lisa Jackson
um And that just absolutely upended my life because I actually met my husband when I was 18. um And it was such a happy marriage. you know We were just so compatible. We just spent all our time laughing, talking about what's your favorite small furry animal, what's your favorite fruit. It was so easygoing. He was very intellectual, but um also just very, very down to earth and very naughty, like humorous naughty. Honestly, was so mischievous.
00:07:06
Lisa Jackson
So um it was you know just the most terrible thing, fighting for his life for four years. um We found some terrible, we had some terrible experiences with medical professionals along the way, like really shocking ones, which are in my book.
00:07:18
Lisa Jackson
And, um you know, running it really took a back seat. But in some of these incidents, um if I didn't have running to fall back on I actually think I would have gone under because I was so like enraged and so upset by things that happened.
00:07:32
Lisa Jackson
And the only thing that would keep me sane was to go for a run and just burn off all the adrenaline and and anger. So um then my husband sadly passed away. And then very shortly after that, my sister died.
00:07:44
Lisa Jackson
And then my father um also died because he had dementia. So I went out to South Africa to look after to him for eight months. And it was a wonderful time that I spent with him. He was my running inspiration because he was actually a cross country champion.
00:07:57
Lisa Jackson
So he was, yeah, no, no, he was fast.
00:07:57
UKRunChat
I'll say
00:07:59
Lisa Jackson
I didn't get any of his genes. I mean, he's definitely my dad.
00:08:01
UKRunChat
it.
00:08:02
Lisa Jackson
He's definitely my dad, but I don't know what happened to the running genes. So he actually beat an Olympian um in who who went on to win um a medal at the Olympics, South African Olympian.
00:08:15
Lisa Jackson
So my dad was a very good runner, but he ran every day, but a really short distance. so I now think my goodness, like he was so proud of being a runner, but he actually, think he ran maybe two ultra 50 K ultras.
00:08:26
Lisa Jackson
He never ran comrades, although he did train for it once and, um, he never ran a marathon. So my dad was very much a three to six K guy, but every day, um And then the saddest thing was I moved to Worthing and I started running to yoga and I was doing yoga every single day and I could just about get to yoga, which is a mile away from my house.
00:08:48
Lisa Jackson
But coming back from yoga, I could barely, i just couldn't get it going again. And I'd go, what's wrong? And I'd go, okay, don't worry. Just when you get to the promenade, that's when you can start running again. I'll get to the promenade and I just go, ah tried again and like I just couldn't, i I couldn't get to the next bench. I couldn't get to the next lamppost.
00:09:04
Lisa Jackson
So my running was just, the more I did it, the more downhill it was going. And then because I'd done so much yoga, i was trying to touch my toes. I just thought, well, let me make progress in another aspect of my life, which is flexibility.
00:09:14
Lisa Jackson
Because when I touch my toes, I actually just touch my knees.
00:09:15
UKRunChat
yeah
00:09:17
Lisa Jackson
And um so I was doing lots of hinging forward. And all of a sudden, I was at home and I hinged forward and I couldn't get back up. And my body was bent like a boomerang and I was just in excruciating pain.
00:09:28
Lisa Jackson
It was a back spasm. Like you, you cannot believe I couldn't go to the loo.
00:09:30
UKRunChat
wow
00:09:31
Lisa Jackson
It was just terrible. And thank God I had a um ah osteopath appointment already booked. So I got in a taxi cause I couldn't drive. And this woman, when she saw me, you know, her eyes just welled up with tears almost cause she could just see the pain I was in.
00:09:45
Lisa Jackson
She did absolutely amazing job on me, but she just said to me, Lisa, I hate to say this, but the two marathons that you've entered this year, there's absolutely no way you can run them. And I was going to do them in my husband's honor.
00:09:55
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:55
Lisa Jackson
um So that was just such a shock to me because something that had been part of my life for decades now was suddenly ripped away. um and I had many false starts into getting my running mojo back.
00:10:07
Lisa Jackson
And I just... Initially, was just the the idea I just couldn't accept that I couldn't just run a marathon every second weekend, you know, it was so hard, it felt almost like my identity had been ripped away from me.
Reclaiming Running Mojo and Positivity
00:10:17
Lisa Jackson
And then I just realized, you know, there's a famous expression, compare and despair. And I just thought don't compare yourself to anyone else, which I never have, actually, because there was no point because I was going to come last.
00:10:27
Lisa Jackson
But also, don't compare yourself to the old Lisa, because you're just not that person anymore. And you're not for many reasons. I was better than the old person and worse than the old person, you know, very different person. So I actually then just set myself the goal of, um well, right first of all, running a marathon and my husband's on. I definitely wanted to do that. I knew that.
00:10:44
Lisa Jackson
But I just said run a mile. So I just said that's all I'm starting with. And so that book, Tommy Cabot, was very inspirational to me in terms of saying just take it down to the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest baby steps.
00:10:51
UKRunChat
Yes.
00:10:55
Lisa Jackson
So by now, i mean, you know, a mile was actually quite a challenge for me because I really at the time couldn't even run 200 meters. I did my mile and it was along the seafront in Worthing where I've moved. And it was so beautiful.
00:11:06
Lisa Jackson
and i just I felt my heart just expanding with joy. And I just thought, you know, this is why I do running. It's like so I can be in beautiful places. um And the distance doesn't actually matter at all. You know, before it was the time doesn't matter. Now it was the distance doesn't matter.
00:11:20
Lisa Jackson
So I just loved it. And I just started little bit by little bit, then I entered a park run and I did it with a woman who walked the whole way she was 74. And she said, Oh, I hope I'm not holding you back. So if you don't think that I would sprint away from you if I could, i was only joking, you know, but I said I'd sprint if I could.
00:11:33
UKRunChat
ah
00:11:34
Lisa Jackson
But this is me. This is how fast I run. and So she came with me. And it just I just felt that joy of another human being sharing her life with me connecting with me took a photo of her to finish. We were so happy. um And then I built up slowly and slowly and I did a half marathon in the new forest, which was ah amazing. I was on my own completely with the ponies and these thousand year old trees.
00:11:54
Lisa Jackson
And again, I was just Lisa, this is, you know and I bumped into people that I'd interviewed for women's running magazine and for runners with years before, and they recognize me and remembered me. And I just felt I was sort of running back towards my old self.
00:12:06
Lisa Jackson
And then this year, I triumphantly, um, was it last year? I triumphantly, finished the Brighton Marathon. And, you know, i really felt um my husband was with me the whole way. Like there was shop front that had three flamingos on it. And I always run in my famous flamingo hat because that's why my runners' little column is called the Flamingo Diaries.
00:12:26
Lisa Jackson
And there were these this big flamingo posters if my husband had sent a cheer team for me. I passed a block of flats and they would had a similar name to the block of flats he lived in in Cape town when I first met him. And then when I was really struggling near the end, the last six miles, um I met a man called Peter Rook and my husband's spirit animal is the crow.
00:12:44
Lisa Jackson
Um, because I asked him to send me a sign after he died and that's what he sent me was crows. And crows, mate for life, they're very handy with tools and my husband was brilliant at DIY. They're very, very intelligent and they remember you, you know, and they also take a bird's eye view of life. They don't just react to things um in a knee-jerk way, which is my initial reaction to everything's a knee-jerk reaction.
00:13:05
Lisa Jackson
So crows were just the perfect spirit animal for my husband. And then when Peter picked me up, he'd actually listened to your place on mine. And he greeted me early in the race. And I greet to anyone who greets me. So was like, hi, hi.
00:13:16
Lisa Jackson
And I thought he was another Peter. He's also done more, you know, hundreds of marathons and a lovely man. I thought he was that Peter. And then when this man came up to me again, the second time he saw me on the race near the end of the last six miles, I thought, oh, you're the wrong Peter. What do you mean the wrong Peter? And said, no, I thought you're other Peter I know.
00:13:35
Lisa Jackson
And he said, no, but I know you. said, well, how do you know me then? And he said, well, I was listening to you on the treadmill when I was doing my training. So he kept me company and his wife is also a cancer thriver, Dominique, and she was waiting for us at the end and he was just such a good company and I really was struggling by then because in my training, because I was writing my book, I also was running out of time to do the long runs.
00:13:55
Lisa Jackson
So I had only actually ever trained up to 16 miles, which just wasn't quite enough. So to have someone who you know knew me because he'd read my book, he was such great company um And we finished together.
00:14:08
Lisa Jackson
and I said to him, i am going to help you get a place in the ah London Marathon. And I have. I managed to do it.
00:14:13
UKRunChat
Oh, that's amazing. Well done.
00:14:15
Lisa Jackson
I found a charity that that was looking for people. So I got him up and I said, I will be sponsoring you. And I will be there with Dominique at the finish line for you.
00:14:19
UKRunChat
oh
00:14:22
Lisa Jackson
So, um yeah, but I really, and then afterwards, I um ah skated my husband's ashes. I carried them with me in a little pouch. And I skated some of his ashes at the end of the Brighton Marathon. So it was a triumphant way to finish my book.
00:14:35
Lisa Jackson
um And I did say it might be my last marathon ever. But of course, the utter euphoria at the end, the medal. I mean, I'm a massive medal collector. And then it was okay. Well, guess what?
00:14:47
Lisa Jackson
But I don't think I'd even washed my clothes from the race. And I already entered the next year. So um yeah, it was a wonderful way to get my running mojo back. And that's what I really wanted to share with people in my book was, you know, mojo loss is incredibly common.
00:15:02
Lisa Jackson
ah my My comrades mentor in South Africa, she's run over 20 comrades. And because of lockdown breaking, you know, the cycle of doing it every year, she lost her running mojo completely.
00:15:11
UKRunChat
yeah
00:15:13
Lisa Jackson
And so many of my 100 marathon club friends have also lost their mojo. And I've never read about It's almost like a shameful secret. Whereas I think, you know, we need to talk about it more. So I wanted you to share that, but I also wanted to share all the tools and the tips and the techniques I used to get through four years of help with the terminal illness and then the three bereavements.
00:15:33
Lisa Jackson
So, um you know, I'm a hypnotherapist, a clinical hypnotherapist.
00:15:36
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:36
Lisa Jackson
So i have a lot of background in mental strategies, etc. Obviously, um you you know, i also read a lot of books on grief and I also attended workshops on bereavement and grief.
00:15:51
Lisa Jackson
ah And so I wanted to condense all of that information for people. So they've just got this handy survival guide. And by the way, it's not just about bereavements. Give me anything because you can suffer loss over a job, ah the loss of a relationship.
00:16:05
Lisa Jackson
um There's many other kind of bereavements that you can have in your life or losses. So I just felt that all that knowledge that I because I spent days and nights researching stuff when my husband was ill. I just wanted to give him the best chance and have the best, longest life.
00:16:19
Lisa Jackson
So I just thought, well, all that effort, all that knowledge I've gained, I want to just condense it down so people don't have to read a meter high pile of books like I did. They can just read my book and then I'll signpost them to all the best books on every topic, you know, running,
00:16:32
Lisa Jackson
bereavement, dealing with medical professionals, that's a very, very important ah chapter, because I'm very deferential. And I learned very quickly that if I just said, um yes, sir, no, sir, to medical professionals, um my husband would not have lived for the four years that he did live.
00:16:49
Lisa Jackson
I absolutely know that.
00:16:49
UKRunChat
I loved what you were saying actually about you were kind of power dressing, weren't you? And I was kind of laughing alongside you in those very uncomfortable shoes you were wearing.
00:16:58
Lisa Jackson
Yes, yes, yes.
00:16:59
UKRunChat
But you were power dressing kind of be on an even par with them, weren't you? Yeah.
00:17:04
Lisa Jackson
Absolutely. My husband had a PhD
Advocacy and Coping Mechanisms
00:17:06
Lisa Jackson
in philosophy, so he was Dr.
00:17:06
UKRunChat
yeah
00:17:07
Lisa Jackson
Graham Williams. And the doctors, we just call him Mr. Williams. And I actually phoned them up and I said, I'd just like to explain you that we call you doctor. And I'd like you to address my husband by the correct honorific. You know, my husband was so embarrassed because he really didn't care about titles or anything.
00:17:21
Lisa Jackson
And i said, no, this is going to remind them that we are partners in this and we are on a on the same level.
00:17:25
UKRunChat
Mm-hmm.
00:17:27
Lisa Jackson
And um yeah, I mean, I even wrote them a letter um before we went to one of our our consultations where I told them how we wanted them to treat us. And I said, you know, we accept the diagnosis, but we don't accept the dire prognosis, which was a maximum five years to live.
00:17:42
Lisa Jackson
I told them we don't want you speaking negative things to us. um Our positive mindset is key to us, you know, all the time. ah So and they they actually took notice of that. It's one of the few things they did take notice of, I'm afraid.
00:17:54
Lisa Jackson
But they did, and you on the whole, adhere to what I'd written, but I actually wrote them a letter. And I recorded um every consultation as well, which is another thing. I just found this one line in one cancer book. And that was game changing because when you're in a medical consultation,
00:18:09
Lisa Jackson
you are so you know you've got your questions you want to ask you've got to listen to the answers they are saying you might have to ask a secondary question about that and you're still trying to remember to ask the rest of your own questions and it's just impossible even if there's two of you to really take it all in because you're actually always in such a state of shock because medics don't often really think about the way that they break news to you so when someone suddenly just says yeah the cancer's back You know, you're just reeling like all of a sudden, all the questions you were going to ask just they are irrelevant because now, you know, the cancer's on the march again or whatever.
00:18:40
Lisa Jackson
So i just found taking the making the recordings because you often find really positive things that doctors have said in that recording that you didn't even listen to at the time because you were so full of horror at what else they'd said.
00:18:50
Lisa Jackson
or just when it came to making decisions, having cold fact, like you could just go, I can't remember what they said about, you know, the two options here. Let's just go listen to it again. So that was something no one had told me, but I learned it. And I just wanted to share that with, um you know, my readers.
00:19:04
UKRunChat
Yeah, there's some really good tips in that. so morning
00:19:06
Lisa Jackson
And sorry, power dressing. Yeah, definitely.
00:19:08
UKRunChat
yeah
00:19:08
Lisa Jackson
But do you know, my tip now, my tip is do not wear shoes that you you're not comfortable wearing, because me hobbling across these hospital car parks was absolutely agonizing. So I'm glad you remember that bit.
00:19:19
UKRunChat
It did stick out because i I'm very rarely in normal shoes these days.
00:19:20
Lisa Jackson
I did really suffer. Yeah,
00:19:23
UKRunChat
I'm always in my training.
00:19:25
Lisa Jackson
I own one pair, you know.
00:19:25
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:26
Lisa Jackson
So yeah, these were very unfamiliar but shoes.
00:19:29
UKRunChat
Yeah. so So during your husband's kind of his treatment with with the the diagnosis that he'd received. Were you running during that time, Lisa? Or did you feel like, yeah, so you were out, that helping?
00:19:39
Lisa Jackson
Yes. on and off. But I have to say to you, I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish, and this is what I would pass on to everyone that I've done more running. um Because I now realize that even five minutes or 10 minutes is so powerful and can change your mindset and how your body feels, you know, much more effectively than going for a four hour hike or walk.
00:19:49
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:20:01
Lisa Jackson
um And i did unfortunately turn to um South African Easter eggs. I think the South Africans will know beef, bacon Easter eggs, a marshmallow Easter eggs. And I would eat them like 10 in ago My husband actually said, Lisa, do you really need 10?
00:20:13
Lisa Jackson
And I just said to him, Graham, you know, can you just keep quiet now? Because I have to keep myself positive and hopeful. And this is the way I'm doing it So he was like, okay, can I bring you another five, you know?
00:20:28
Lisa Jackson
So marshmallow, Easter eggs, too much wine, cetera. Unhelpful coping strategies. I'm sure everyone can relate to doing those things. And wine is a depressant. So it actually doesn't make you feel better. It makes you feel worse.
00:20:39
Lisa Jackson
And running will never do that to you. I mean, as someone said, you know, I've never regretted a run, or I have regretted that run, said no one ever. So I wish, you know, that I had actually really remembered ah that, you know, just doing short daily runs would have really been so much better for me.
00:20:55
Lisa Jackson
But I tended to do running when was furious or when I was very stressed.
00:20:59
UKRunChat
and
00:21:00
Lisa Jackson
um And also to spend time with other people because um um was so wrapped up in the whole cancer journey. I mean, I used to go to sleep thinking about cancer, wake up in the night to read about cancer and think about it, you know, and wake up in the morning thinking about it.
00:21:13
Lisa Jackson
And just spending time of people who weren't involved in that whole cancer world was very helpful. ah to me. But I did actually stop running marathons.
00:21:21
UKRunChat
yeah
00:21:21
Lisa Jackson
So I kind of stopped at 110. um And I didn't run a marathon for seven years. That's how long a break I had.
00:21:30
UKRunChat
Yeah, wow, yeah. I mean, im I'm sure you're back to them now. Will you do more now that you've kind of got through this and come out the other side?
00:21:39
Lisa Jackson
it might not be them plural because my last one, I did think that'll that'll be the final one.
00:21:43
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:44
Lisa Jackson
And then because I had such a wonderful experience, you know i've I've hooked up for another one. And then recently i was asked, do you want to do the Uganda marathon? And I haven't been to Uganda and I'm a very keen traveler. So was like, oh, I do, but now can't because I'm giving a lecture somewhere.
00:21:55
Lisa Jackson
But I suddenly realized, you know it's actually a bit of a waste of the training if you train throughout the winter and you only do one.
00:22:01
UKRunChat
young
00:22:01
Lisa Jackson
I think it's actually good idea to do a couple, like just maybe three or something around that time. But, um you know, I've got other goals now. I want to get to 100 half marathons. I want to do 100 park runs.
00:22:13
Lisa Jackson
um I actually want to do a half Ironman triathlon because I have done up to Olympic distance before. So I've got things I want to do, and I don't have to prove to myself anymore that I can push through the pain and do a marathon.
00:22:26
Lisa Jackson
You know, I've proved that 109 times because it are the other two things that count in my telly are the Comrades Marathon.
00:22:27
UKRunChat
yeah
00:22:33
Lisa Jackson
So I'm really convinced of my mental stamina. um And I actually just want to have fun with my running now. I want to get all the benefits and a little bit less pain. Let's put it that way.
00:22:42
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. And you can benefit more from recovery, can't you, without running so many marathons, I guess.
Community and Connection in Running
00:22:49
Lisa Jackson
Yeah, no, definitely. and and And, you know, you probably now, I mean, I didn't run at all for at least two weeks after Brighton. Yeah, i would I'd rather run more consistently. That's really my goal is consistency now.
00:22:59
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:01
Lisa Jackson
And just having fun. Honestly, iy i just love in and entering events. I love the medals. I love seeing my running friends and making new ones. I love rescuing people in races. That's another thing I love doing. I'm called the the Mother Teresa of marathon running.
00:23:16
Lisa Jackson
So I often pick up people who are really struggling at the back. And I just say, if you come with me, you'll sleep tonight with a medal around your neck. And they have to promise me before I pick them up, I say you have to will you sleep with a medal around your neck? If not, you're not running with me. And they always say, yeah, okay, will.
00:23:28
Lisa Jackson
And I haven't lost anyone yet, like anyone I've picked up. I mean, i do judge them. I give them a a pre-assessment to see if I think they're going to make it. And most of the time, you know, someone will be sobbing their eyes out, but they look fine. And I always do ask, you know, are you injured? And if they are, then I would never push someone to finish.
00:23:42
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:42
Lisa Jackson
But if it's just a mental wobble they're having, then just having someone who's really upbeat. I'm always telling them little stories. I ask them to tell me stories. But like you, like what's your most embarrassing running moment, what's your most fun one, whatever.
00:23:51
UKRunChat
yes
00:23:53
Lisa Jackson
And we always get to the end. And I just feel it almost feels like I've won two medals, you know, when i when they my protege finishes as well. um and I've made a lot of friendships that way. So, yeah, it's just one of the best parts of running for me.
00:24:06
UKRunChat
It's funny because a marathon is, it's very emotional, isn't it? Especially the first time you're doing it. I think I remember crying during my first marathon, not with pain, just with, oh my God, like I'm actually doing this and it's amazing.
00:24:15
Lisa Jackson
Oh!
00:24:19
UKRunChat
And it's so emotional. So it's nice that you can recognize that in others and help them through it.
00:24:26
Lisa Jackson
Oh, yeah, and I share their joy with them as well. You know, that the crying at the end and the hugs and the posing with the photos and, you know, telling them, you do not under any circumstances accept a medal pressed into your hand.
00:24:38
Lisa Jackson
You stand there, you put your arms behind your back, hold onto your hands, and then you bow up bow your head like an Olympian.
00:24:40
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:24:44
Lisa Jackson
I said, what what Olympian gets stuffed a medal in their hands? No way. You act on it. And, you know, with me, is that people have got to get the medal over my wings of my flamingo. ah i still in insist they have to do it.
00:24:55
Lisa Jackson
And they really love that. you know and i take ask i take I'm the official race photographer. I take the photos of them getting the medal. and um And everyone laughs. We just make a big thing out of it. like And I think you know to celebrate someone else's achievement is just like the most best feeling in the world. ah It's even nicer than you know your own achievement.
00:25:13
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it's wonderful. did do you Is coaching ever something that you you go into? You seem to be, you seem to do it naturally. You know, it's hey it sounds like you help a lot of people at races.
00:25:24
UKRunChat
It's something that you've ever thought about.
00:25:25
Lisa Jackson
um You know, i'm I'm actually a clinical hypnotherapist.
00:25:29
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:25:29
Lisa Jackson
So in a way there's a lot of coaching that's involved in that.
00:25:31
UKRunChat
Yeah, I guess, yeah.
00:25:32
Lisa Jackson
So um that's kind of my day job. And I wouldn't want to formally like take over that role into a coaching environment.
00:25:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:25:40
Lisa Jackson
I also love traveling a lot. So um I can't really guarantee and see I'm ever going to be in the same place at the same time every week.
00:25:42
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:25:46
Lisa Jackson
um But yeah, I love um you know encouraging people. yeah always look i look them up and down and I say, you know I've run so many marathons and I can tell, like I'm an expert in judging other people and I can tell you now, you look very much like a finisher to me.
00:26:00
Lisa Jackson
you know And that always laugh and that gets them through.
00:26:01
UKRunChat
Yes.
00:26:02
Lisa Jackson
so And I have learnt a lot of kind of encouragement tips from races I've done where I've had a paster and we sing things like, another one bites the dust every time we get to a mile marker.
00:26:13
Lisa Jackson
Or, you know, if you're going to go to a toilet, like just make a big thing out of it and I go, five, four, three, two, one, toilet, you know. And don't know, just little tips like that, um which does make it more fun and memorable, you know, for the person.
00:26:27
Lisa Jackson
But obviously the main thing is storytelling. Like I tell them my stories and I always try and get them to talk about their journey. And once they remember, like, all you've done, all this training, you know, i go, come on, tell me about your training. What was the hardest, you know, thing you did? How cold was it?
00:26:40
Lisa Jackson
Whatever. They start remembering, oh my God, it's like, yeah, I deserve to be here. I deserve to finish. I'm not giving up now. So, um yeah, we have great conversations and people share things on the road because you're not looking in their eyes, you know, you're looking ahead.
00:26:53
Lisa Jackson
People share things. i cannot tell you. I mean, I've told, you know, people really personal things about myself that I would never tell a stranger in normal life. But because you you kind of know they're a fellow runner, a fellow sufferer, if you like, um and you're not looking them in the eye, it's actually very easy to be very open with people.
00:27:09
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:27:09
Lisa Jackson
So, and obviously I never publish a story about anyone without their full permission. It's written down. they They see it in writing. There's not one person I've ever written about that hasn't given me approval, you know, beforehand um because they are such personal stories, but they're such inspirational stories. I mean, when I ever had to write for Runner's World now,
00:27:26
Lisa Jackson
I just know dozens of people who are just so inspirational, they could be on the cover of the magazine, you know, and it's so lovely to showcase them often and go, you know, that story you told me 20 years ago. um yeah right.
00:27:38
Lisa Jackson
Now's the time I want to hear, you know, we're going to put it in print.
00:27:41
UKRunChat
Yeah, oh that's so that's so beautiful and powerful. I love it. Yeah. and What was I going to ask? I completely lost my train of thought now, Lisa.
00:27:51
Lisa Jackson
but Oh, fine. I do it all the time.
00:27:51
UKRunChat
Oh, I know what I was going to ask. I was going to get back to, we were talking about mojo when you were saying you kind of lost your mojo because just remind but when you were saying you're reminding people of all the training they've done and all their experience behind them.
00:28:06
UKRunChat
yet you still lost your mojo. So what was it about that time that you weren't telling yourself? Like, how did you get through that when you were struggling to run? but That's quite difficult, isn't it, to get through on your own, I guess.
00:28:21
Lisa Jackson
It was really difficult because there was no one at my my know at my pace.
00:28:23
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:25
Lisa Jackson
I've just moved to Worthing, so i didn't actually know very many people here.
00:28:28
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:28:28
Lisa Jackson
And remember, was also a very physical thing because I don't know whether I got COVID and didn't know or I was having a very bad response to the third COVID jab because I i really, for weeks after that, three weeks afterwards, my whole body was aching.
00:28:38
UKRunChat
you
00:28:42
Lisa Jackson
I felt like i had flew had no energy at all. I mean, none. I was moving house at the time and and I could barely unpack a box without having to you have a sit down. so there's definitely something wrong physically. on And my mind, you know, it's very strong. Like if I say i am going to run between two lampposts, I'm telling you, I will run between two lampposts and I will crawl if I have to. I'm not ashamed of, you know, doing it a different way, even walking it. But, you know, it was so hard.
00:29:06
Lisa Jackson
and And I think you know I had a few things that made a massive difference to me. And one was I'm having a walking warm up. So I now never just come out the door and just start running. Never. No matter if I'm meeting someone or not. And even if they've walked to my house, I will say, I'm still doing my five minutes walk.
00:29:22
Lisa Jackson
I have to do that. So I didn't realize, you know, the whole idea, even though i worked on a health magazine for 11 years, that synovial fluid is is actually has to be released through movement. So to, you know, reduce friction in your joints.
00:29:35
Lisa Jackson
So it just makes the start of every run so much nicer because I just ease myself into it mentally. And I also even say to myself, I really don't feel like it. I say, well, go out for the walking warmup. And if you're really not feeling it, you can just come home. Like I don't mind. You've been outside. You've seen the sea.
00:29:49
Lisa Jackson
You know, you've seen a few seagulls. You've seen a few crows, you know, sitting on the beach huts. and come back and I never do after five minutes I'm actually fine so that was huge huge factor and and then I also feel that goals you know are really important, like realistic goals.
00:30:07
Lisa Jackson
And obviously, you know for some of the people listening to this podcast, you know running a park run from beginning to end is is a realistic goal. And for others, it's doing an ultra. you know It's very different for everybody. And you've got to make your goal achievable. Now, because I've done so many marathons, I knew I could run a marathon or walk run because I always walk run them now.
00:30:25
Lisa Jackson
and So I just set that goal and then you kind of work backwards from that and you put in a plan. And another one was just, I've got this brilliant book called The Law of Running. It's a South African sports scientist wrote it and he's got a brilliant marathon plan in there that's very doable. It's not double distances on a Sunday. It's not, you know, ah massive amounts of training.
00:30:44
Lisa Jackson
It's very, very um gentle. And I put that on my fridge and I marked off every training run that I did. um And, you know, i hadn't done that kind of systematic adherence to a training program since my first days as a marathon runner. um Because I very much, you know, a lot of people in the 100 Marathon Club, we kind of believe that a marathon is the best training for the next marathon.
00:31:05
Lisa Jackson
So we actually don't, a lot of us don't run a lot in the week. We might run once or twice and quite short distances because we're going to do another marathon on Sunday or Saturday. So marking them off really made me accountable to myself.
00:31:17
Lisa Jackson
And then I did find, you know, um ah a woman I used to run with, years ago, like 25 years ago. And I took her on her first half marathon training run just by accident. I just said, look, if we run a little bit more, you know, my Garmin says, you've run a half marathon. Do you want us to run an extra two or three K? And she absolutely.
00:31:34
UKRunChat
Oh,
00:31:34
Lisa Jackson
So um Emma lives nearby and I didn't really realize when we reconnected and then she'd come down with her dog called Woody the Woodster.
00:31:41
Lisa Jackson
And he's a very gentle dog. So I'm quite s scared of dogs, but he's lovely. um And then she would come running with me and she's much better than me, but she doesn't mind walking because she loves talking as well. So we just talk and walk and run and talk. And, you know, she got me through my 16 mile training run.
00:31:56
Lisa Jackson
So I think, and I've also got another running buddy who wants to remain anonymous, but she is affectionately known as Beth. And she's hilarious. Like, honestly, you can't dread a run if you're going to be running with Beth because she's such a drama queen.
00:32:09
Lisa Jackson
And she lies down on the on the promenade wall and she goes, I can't, I can't go on. And I run up her and I say, God, are you all right?
00:32:16
UKRunChat
you
00:32:18
Lisa Jackson
Like, what's wrong? And she goes, no, I think I didn't eat my banana before I left home. And that's why I'm feeling so terrible. You know, so she always makes me laugh so much. And I go, Beth, you're a disgrace. I said to her, you know, I'm going to post this Facebook. i quickly take a photo of her lying there, you know.
00:32:33
Lisa Jackson
And then said, to put it Facebook. She says, I don't care. I'm not on Facebook. You know, she's like that. So we always have stories to tell each other. ah we always have catching up to do. we She often tells me stories that are really, really funny.
00:32:46
Lisa Jackson
And they just make me screech with laughter. So I think people in Worthing probably just know us for the people who just always doubled up and screeching as we go along. And that's really helped me as to have something to look forward to because now widowed.
00:32:58
Lisa Jackson
You know, i don't have daily companionship like I had with my husband. So it's very important to, you know, maintain connections with other people because I live on the sixth floor ah of my block and I could go for weeks without seeing another soul.
00:33:13
Lisa Jackson
And so it's very, that running is the thing that forces me out the house. And especially in winter, i mean, we went running on the days where they said it was a ah weather warning. We've gone out, me and Beth, and we've almost been blown into the ocean. Literally, like, you know, and it was such strong wind.
00:33:28
Lisa Jackson
um But we were so proud. I mean, our pride when we got home, our faces were like red raw from the wind. But we were like, we are champions. like But I wouldn't have done it if I was on my own. I wouldn't have. But she said, I'm meeting you at this time. And it's like, okay, well, you know, have to turn up.
00:33:41
Lisa Jackson
So that's another tip is is find someone amazing to run with.
00:33:44
UKRunChat
Yeah. Where do you find these people? if someone's listening thinking, I don't know anybody to run with, how have you kind of integrated yourself into that community in your since you've moved?
00:33:52
Lisa Jackson
and Well, I am very lucky because the two runners I've mentioned now were from my past when I worked in publishing.
00:33:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:00
Lisa Jackson
But I would say if you're looking for running buddy, like go along to Parkrun and try and see if you can talk to a Marshall or somebody like that and get yourself invited to a coffee afterwards.
00:34:11
Lisa Jackson
um because um i remember when started doing parkrun in Worthing, you know, it was the first time that I was in a place where I didn't know anyone because at the previous parkrun in Lloyd Park, in Croydon, I was a member of a running club. So when I went to parkrun, I knew everybody, well, not everybody, but I knew lots of people. So I didn't feel lonely, but when I went to Worthing, I didn't know anyone.
00:34:31
Lisa Jackson
And I felt felt quite isolated. And the other day, um I was just ah running along and one of the marshals, she was a tail walker, she kept greeting everyone. And in the end, as I ran past her, I said, how come you know everyone?
00:34:43
Lisa Jackson
And she said, Oh, I organize a junior park run. So these are all my officials and volunteers for that. So we got talking. And then I said to her, you know, I felt quite alienated from Worthing Park Run because I hadn't, you know, I didn't, how do I go and ask someone, can I please have coffee with you?
00:34:57
Lisa Jackson
And she said, Oh, I wish I'd met you three years ago, you would have been my first person to invite for coffee. So I'm going to have coffee with her.
00:35:02
UKRunChat
and
00:35:03
Lisa Jackson
I couldn't go that day. She even invited me that very day.
00:35:04
UKRunChat
yeah
00:35:05
Lisa Jackson
I said, I'm really sorry, I've got to go up to town for something. um But I would say, you know, go and speak to a marshal, say, or any of you going for coffee afterwards, is anyone you can introduce me to? You have to be a little bit brave. I mean, I should have been a bit more pushy about it.
00:35:15
UKRunChat
yeah
00:35:17
Lisa Jackson
But I never really thought about it. And now I'm thinking you asked me such a good question. And I'm thinking, Yeah, I should have gone to an official or the race director and said, do some of you meet up for coffee afterwards, and just invite yourself, because you'll soon find um someone who's at your pace.
00:35:30
Lisa Jackson
Or if you attend parkrun enough, you're going to end up running with the same people over and over again. You know, you just are, if you're a certain pace, like me, I'm always with the people at the back. And if they go regularly, you might just say, hey, see you next week, whatever. And then they'll, the next time they'll greet you. And that's how you become running friends.
00:35:48
Lisa Jackson
Yeah, because I do say, um you know,
00:35:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:35:50
Lisa Jackson
exposure breeds, familiarity breeds closeness and affection.
00:35:54
UKRunChat
and Yeah, it does. It's true that, isn't it?
00:35:55
Lisa Jackson
So you got to see people a few times before they actually know, not necessarily.
00:35:56
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't happen instantly. kind of You just have to make that initial connection, don't you, and then put some work in, really, don't you? Yeah.
00:36:07
Lisa Jackson
Absolutely. You have to be brave. You know, i've I've really realized that as a widow now, um you know, i have to force myself to do things, to go places where I don't know a single soul and just go and speak to someone. And thank God marathon running prepared me for that because, you know, i find I feel very comfortable speaking to strangers.
00:36:24
Lisa Jackson
But, um you know, no one's going to come knocking on my door saying, oh, I hear an amazingly interesting woman lives up here. ah They're not. So I've got to go and, you know, join join things. and you know And the other thing I wanted to say to your listeners is...
00:36:38
Lisa Jackson
You know, just because you join something, whether it's a running club or a choir or a yoga class, you know, you don't have to stick it out if you don't like it. I would say go three times. And if it isn't for you, just know it's not for you. And don't think you've failed. Don't think, you know, you're a bad person or anything like that.
00:36:52
Lisa Jackson
Just go, i haven't found my tribe yet. and keep going until you do find your tribe. So, um you know, it does take courage. it It really does. You know, human connection is more vital than anything else. I mean, it's the biggest factor for longevity.
00:37:08
Lisa Jackson
um it's It's more important having friends than not smoking. on But it it falls away. As you get older, it's harder to make friends. It definitely is. You know, people have got such full lives. They've got a roster of friends already.
00:37:19
Lisa Jackson
But you can make new friends at any age. But you have to make the effort. ah you have to join things, ah you have to turn up regularly so people recognize you, then they miss you when you're not there, then that makes you feel great because you think, oh, they knew I wasn't there last week.
00:37:32
Lisa Jackson
And then, you know, you you get more inspired to go.
00:37:35
UKRunChat
Yeah, I think even more so in this same age where we're all working a lot more from home, aren't we? We see fewer people, I guess, fewer opportunities to meet people.
00:37:44
Lisa Jackson
Well, absolutely. I mean, almost all, because I'm South African, and I mean, almost all of my friends now I met at work and I wouldn't have become friends with them because I ran with them at lunchtimes.
00:37:47
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:51
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:53
Lisa Jackson
You know, i talked to them in the kitchen about silly things. They used to call me the kitchen life coach. That's why I became a therapist because my poor boss used to go in to make a cup of tea. I'd come out like 45 minutes later and she'd go,
00:38:05
Lisa Jackson
what have you been doing? Have you been kitchen life coaching again? I go, oh, and I couldn't believe how the time had just gone. i mean it's bit like marathons as well. Chat so much, don't even know six, seven hours have gone by. i so um yeah, it's ah it's very, very important to make those connections.
00:38:23
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, you're such a positive force, Lisa. What would you say to somebody listening who's going through similar to what you've been through over recent years, either dealing with ah recent and cancer diagnosis of a relative or just coming out, you know, dealing with grief, having lost somebody.
Coping with Grief and Using Life Skills
00:38:40
UKRunChat
Any words for our listeners?
00:38:42
Lisa Jackson
um Well, definitely with a cancer diagnosis, and I would just say do your research. You know, it's horrible to do the research. You will read things you don't want you don't want to know and you can't unsee. you you will That will be the experience.
00:38:56
Lisa Jackson
But it puts the power in your hands that you can make informed decisions. So that's something I'd really, really say. The other thing is don't forget the running. Like, you know, We tend to just reach for the more unhelpful coping strategies.
00:39:09
Lisa Jackson
And yet running is, honestly, I really believe that's the most helpful one. i mean, you don't have to be a marathon runner to benefit from this. i'm I'm sure there are some people who say running didn't make a difference, but I can't imagine anyone saying that.
00:39:21
Lisa Jackson
So instead of saying, I have to go and run for an hour or I have to finish 5K or something like that. Just say to yourself, I'm going for my little know mental holiday, my little mental spa break.
00:39:32
Lisa Jackson
And whether you run or not, doesn't really matter, but the running does make a difference. It's better than just walking. And just go out for 10 minutes and just try and keep that consistency. Because having an identity other than the cancer thriver's wife,
00:39:46
Lisa Jackson
and is so important. And it'll just expose you to other people, fresh air, beautiful scenery, calming. You know, there's there's a lot of stress release really burnt out oh because it's so stressful supporting someone through a cancer diagnosis.
00:40:00
Lisa Jackson
I cannot tell you. I mean, You know, it was actually a weird thing, but I actually felt a sense of relief when my husband died because um I was fighting every single day that he was ill.
00:40:12
Lisa Jackson
And to not have to do that anymore, not to have to think, is there anything else we can try? Is there anything else research I could do? You know, do you think this drug will work or won't it? You know, that limbo that you're in and the fighting, it's really difficult.
00:40:23
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:40:24
Lisa Jackson
So, you know, those are the things um I'd say, and and just um don't put any pressure on yourself. If you've got cancer yourself, you know, a lot of my friends have gone through cancer now and they say, Oh, I thought I was going to be one of those people who ran to my chemotherapy sessions, and then i could hardly get to the post box.
00:40:40
Lisa Jackson
And I said, but you did get to the post box. That's the thing. So whether it's literally one block that you walk, just do it because it's good for your mind. um It's good for your body and it helps your body heal itself, you know, and of cancer. So I always think, you know, running is your best friend.
00:40:58
Lisa Jackson
And you just got to treat it like that. Like you wouldn't ignore your best friend for six months or a year. So you've got to touch in with your best friend and know that that best friend always there for you, always going to help you.
00:41:09
Lisa Jackson
And it's interesting because I used to run a lot with my husband, although we didn't run together because he was s much faster than me. I used to travel a lot and I used to camp a lot. And, um you know, when I went traveling on my own or went camping on my own, it just wasn't the same.
00:41:22
Lisa Jackson
But when I entered my first races after he died, It was my identity as a runner just came back, you know, and it was just, this is something I do for me.
00:41:29
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:41:32
Lisa Jackson
And, you know, Lisa, the runner exists independently of, you know, Lisa, the wife. um And so that identity hadn't been taken away from me. And it's it's a great identity to have because I think you know anyone who's a runner, whether they run 2K, they are better off you know and got more determination and stamina than someone who stayed on the sofa eating salt and with a spoon.
00:41:56
Lisa Jackson
So you're really self-selecting a group of motivated people who care about their health. um And nice people. I mean, I really have met some absolutely extra extraordinary nice people, really kind, really giving, really open people.
00:42:12
Lisa Jackson
So um I really, you know, don't forget so that's running is there as your superpower.
00:42:17
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. That sounds like a a good place to finish this this segment because I've got some quick fire questions for you.
00:42:24
Lisa Jackson
Oh, yes. Okay.
00:42:25
UKRunChat
Before we go into them, just to tell listeners where they can find your book and what it's called and where it's available.
00:42:31
Lisa Jackson
Wonderful. Thank you. So it's called Still Running After All These Tears, A Runner's Journey Through Grief. And it's available from Waterstones. It's available on Amazon or anywhere you usually buy your books.
00:42:44
Lisa Jackson
So um do get a copy. It's not all about sadness and grief and loss. There's a lot of humorous moments because even when someone's had a cancer diagnosis, you can still laugh and you can still have fun. It brings a lot of joy in your life because you know that life is precious and you need to appreciate it.
00:43:02
Lisa Jackson
um There's hilarious chapter on my um online dating and speed dating exploits um as well to look forward to if you get to chapter 27. And there's the finale chapter which is just full of joy when I did my marathon again.
00:43:15
Lisa Jackson
um So there's a lot of humor in this book. And I was really aware that I didn't want to drag anyone down when they were reading it. I just wanted to inspire them. And know the other thing I wanted to say to people are bereaved is, you know, it just does get better.
00:43:27
Lisa Jackson
They say, you know, please don't say time heals or wounds, but it actually just does. and And sometimes you go back a bit, you know, it's not like it's a progression. You don't just get better and better and better and better.
00:43:38
Lisa Jackson
You know, you have your bad days, you have your bad moments. I can still suddenly just well up with tears over nothing. um And then I can go for a month without shedding a tear at all. You know, just not being sad about my husband and just celebrating the fact I've got to spend 35 years of my life with the most incredible man.
00:43:55
Lisa Jackson
and But I just want you to know if you're feeling in the darkest pits of despair, and I have really, trust me, been there, where was just, I'm not sure i want to continue living. It it was that bad.
00:44:08
Lisa Jackson
But then I thought, you know, my husband and I fought so hard for him to carry on living. And how could I throw away my life like a, you know, discarded water bottle, like plastic single use water bottle.
00:44:18
Lisa Jackson
So I just want to say if you're feeling that that that's um real despair, you know, the other Samaritans, you know, speak to your GP, speak to close friends. If you're lucky enough to have the kind of people who can help you, they will.
00:44:29
Lisa Jackson
they will really help you but not everyone has that sadly it's and i was so lucky i had just rock solid friends um not all of them but some of them just were utterly amazing and really got me through um and just do believe that you will find joy again i found it impossible i don't laugh as much as i used to because i don't have anyone to laugh with but now i just laugh at myself so um i try and find something every day that makes me laugh and just just like giggle out loud you know even if it's something um like the immigration dilemma with the one in one out and that one guy they managed to get rid of him and he came straight back and I just started laughing and I just thought you know I know it's a serious and a very sad and difficult subject but I love the fact I could find something funny about it because this guy is like a little mole like popping up you know you slam him down like whack-a-mole and he just pops up back in the UK it just made me laugh so you can find joy even in the news which I don't listen to very often
00:45:15
UKRunChat
good
00:45:20
Lisa Jackson
and just little things that happen to you. And if you kind of look out for the joyful things, you'll find them. But if you're going to look for the sad things, you're going to find them too.
00:45:25
UKRunChat
yeah
00:45:28
Lisa Jackson
And I just think it's how you steer your mind. And I try and steer my mind when I find myself going to spiral of, oh my God, I've lost my soul mate. He was my best friend. you know, I don't have anyone to drink wine with in the evenings or whatever, then I just go, okay, that's, it's true, but I just go stop. And that's one of the techniques I teach in my book is this is taking you into a depressive state and it's dangerous where it leads. It's going to be another negative thought and another one.
00:45:52
Lisa Jackson
And you're going to be right at the bottom of that pit again. And I'm not going there anymore. So just go stop. And then I go think of something nice, you know, and sometimes I think, oh, I've planned a lovely That's what going to think about now.
00:46:03
Lisa Jackson
and I think, oh, you know, maybe one day I'll meet someone amazing like my husband and I sort of fantasize about what that person will be like. And that cheers me up, you know, just, yeah. So, but it's up to you. You know, I always say to people, you choose happiness.
00:46:15
Lisa Jackson
And for people who going through grief, even they can choose happiness. And they can maybe see it as an end goal, but I can say that you actually will find that these little sparks of joy that can happen, even if you've just recently been bereaved, you can find those little moments, even it's just recalling how amazing the person you lost was in your life and hang on to those things. And then the the joy gets more and more and more, you know, and and in the end, your life really does come back and into balance.
00:46:42
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it sounds like some of the techniques you're sharing there is is that part of your training as a hypnotherapist have taught you that as well. I guess that comes into play a bit, doesn't it?
00:46:49
Lisa Jackson
Yes, absolutely.
00:46:51
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:46:52
Lisa Jackson
And that's why I wanted to put that in my book as well. When when my husband was diagnosed, I felt that everything I'd done in my life up to that point, my hypnobirthing training as well, because I teach hypnosis to dads so that they can help mums, you know, to have a much more comfortable birth.
00:46:54
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:47:06
Lisa Jackson
So all my hypnobirthing training, my hypnosis training, my life skills, The people I've met, you know, as marathon runners or as patients and clients, and all of that fed in to making me um capable of supporting my husband. And that's what my book's about, is all those things that you might not have learned in your day-to-day life, I've distilled into one book.
00:47:28
Lisa Jackson
So you can just pick up those little tips as you go. And then one day, hopefully, you know, none of us can escape um bereavements and things like that. But one day I'll say, oh, I remember I read this running book, but actually at the back, There's some amazing strategies for helping me through this really difficult time.
00:47:43
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, wonderful. Thank you, Lisa. Right.
00:47:46
Lisa Jackson
No, it's a great pleasure.
00:47:46
UKRunChat
So Lisa's book is available now, still running after all these tears. Right. We'll go into our quickfire round then. So what's the favourite race that you've ever done? And I know you've done a lot. It must be so hard to pick one, but you must choose only one.
Favorite Races and Running Reflections
00:48:01
Lisa Jackson
I will ah choose Comrades Ultramarathon, 56 miles.
00:48:03
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:48:05
Lisa Jackson
Every South African runner has to do it. And I think every other runner should as well. um If anyone's interested, I do have a Comrades inspirational Inspiration Pack that I email out to people to inspire them to do it.
00:48:18
Lisa Jackson
I couldn't believe that I could do two marathons plus a 5k all in one day under 12 hours. I had to get so much faster to be able to qualify. i think I had to knock 45 minutes off my just average marathon time.
00:48:31
Lisa Jackson
um And through strength training and speed training, I did it, which was a miracle because I really didn't think I could run any faster than I did. I'm very much a one pace runner from beginning to end on the same pace.
00:48:42
Lisa Jackson
So it was fabulous. It's got the best atmosphere. 91 kilometers of crowd support the whole way.
00:48:48
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:48:49
Lisa Jackson
People feeding you snacks off their barbecues. and Just, oh, it's just the most phenomenal race ever.
00:48:57
UKRunChat
It sounds like a rite of passage, especially if you're from South Africa.
00:48:59
Lisa Jackson
wow.
00:49:00
UKRunChat
Have you done it both directions?
00:49:03
Lisa Jackson
um I've done it three times. So I've completed it successfully on the down run twice because they did it in two successive years.
00:49:05
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:49:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:49:09
Lisa Jackson
And then the third year, I tripped over a cat's eye. My husband had said to me, don't fall over a cat's eye. And I tripped over one, literally 10 minutes after he said that, after kilometer one or two. um So I had my arm, I felt like my arm had been torn off. I was running, hanging onto my sports bra, like making a sling out of it, blood just dripping off my arm.
00:49:28
Lisa Jackson
And I managed to get through all the cutoffs. So... um
00:49:35
Lisa Jackson
um I ended up and being put into the bail bus after I think 78 kilometers. But the up run is a completely different beast to the down run. And it needs a lot of serious training.
00:49:49
Lisa Jackson
and By then I got a little bit cocky. So um I didn't do enough training. To be honest, I didn't deserve to finish. Even if I hadn't fallen over, I probably would still have finished. It was just too tough. I mean, running two uphill marathons.
00:50:01
UKRunChat
Yeah, that sounds really hard.
00:50:04
Lisa Jackson
It was very, very tough. Yeah. But I'm so glad, you know, i ran for full 12 hours and um I did myself proud.
00:50:06
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:50:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:50:10
Lisa Jackson
You know, I still did another ultra. I didn't count for the 100 marathon club total because they say no medal, no time, no nothing.
00:50:17
UKRunChat
Oh, you've got to actually have the medal, have you? Yeah.
00:50:20
Lisa Jackson
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But I was so proud of myself. I think that showed an enormous amount of stamina knowing I wasn't going to finish and still sticking out the full 12 hours.
00:50:24
UKRunChat
yeah
00:50:30
Lisa Jackson
Yeah.
00:50:30
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's amazing, waiting for them to say, no, you've got to get on the bus now rather than you giving up.
00:50:33
Lisa Jackson
That's it
00:50:35
UKRunChat
There's if there's a difference there, isn't there?
00:50:36
Lisa Jackson
Massive, massive, you know, and a lot of marathon training for me and and marathon running was about proving that the impossible was possible ah for me.
00:50:37
UKRunChat
Yeah. yeah
00:50:47
Lisa Jackson
and And I just learned so much about myself. And that's why i was so grateful when I went into this cancer journey that I knew myself so well and I knew I could stick it out and I could stay positive for four years.
00:50:58
Lisa Jackson
And I knew it would take planning and and research, you know, like a proper training plan. You know, a lot of the things um I write about in my book are transferable skills. If you're a marathon runner or a half marathon runner, anything that's more than, you know, light challenge in running, you will have picked up things that you're not even aware of until you're faced with crises and you suddenly realize, you know what, my running's equipped me to deal with this.
00:51:21
UKRunChat
yeah wow yes okay next one least glamorous running moment
00:51:27
Lisa Jackson
Oh, I'm laughing about this because I had so many, but it has to be my favorite one is I was running alone in the forests of Transylvania, dressed as Dracula. was the only runner in fancy dress in this race. It was a marathon, but it's called the Transylvanian Bear Run.
00:51:41
Lisa Jackson
And I suddenly needed to do a number two. Now, there are no toilets anywhere in this forest. There are bears everywhere. I had to run crushing my water bottle like this to scare the bears. I'm alone. i've lost and I've lost track of where I am because they marked out the route with pieces of tape and the tape just got shorter and shorter and shorter. and they were obviously running out of tape.
00:52:01
Lisa Jackson
In the end, there was literally like two centimeters of tape. you know, tied in a branch and I just missed them. So I was lost as well. And I had to find a log and I had to do, there's a famous expression, does a bear SHRT in the woods?
00:52:13
Lisa Jackson
No, they don't. Lisa Jackson does. And that was my least glamorous running moment. But the nice thing was being lost um and the only spectators were bears. No one saw me do it. So that is my least glamorous and actually one of my more funny ones as well.
00:52:28
UKRunChat
I think probably a lot of us have been in similar situations.
00:52:31
Lisa Jackson
Oh, it's terrible, especially...
00:52:32
UKRunChat
Maybe not with the bears.
00:52:34
Lisa Jackson
Yeah, but the number two business, you know, that number one is okay, but number two is is really terrible.
00:52:40
UKRunChat
What's the best bit of running advice that you've ever received?
00:52:44
Lisa Jackson
Well, it was actually from our comrades mentor, Nikki Campbell. She used to run a website that no longer exists, unfortunately, called Also Runners. And she just said, back yourself in an email to me in capital letters, back yourself.
00:52:56
Lisa Jackson
And the other piece of advice she gave me was with comrades, you know, you have to do very complicated splits because you can't expect to run one kilometer on the flat in the same time as you run one kilometer on an incline.
00:53:08
Lisa Jackson
So she just said to me, don't worry if you missed your splits in the first half. I know it sounds unlikely, but you can catch them up in the second. And if she hadn't said that to me, when I missed my splits, about a half I was behind, I probably would have bailed.
00:53:20
Lisa Jackson
But because she'd said to me, just hang in there, just trust me and back yourself, basically, again, back yourself, ah you will be able to finish it. And so I did. So I think that was a life-changing because it was a lifelong dream that I didn't even want to tell anyone about because it was so unlikely that I would be able to do comrades.
00:53:36
Lisa Jackson
And that got me through.
00:53:39
UKRunChat
But yeah, that that's really, that's really wise advice, actually.
00:53:42
Lisa Jackson
Yeah.
00:53:43
UKRunChat
I like that. and What's your favourite post-race treat?
00:53:48
Lisa Jackson
Well, I shared this with my auntie, which was vinegary chips, like salty, salty vinegary chips, because, you know, when you've been running for a long time, and you've been having sugary treats, because I do always give myself a piece of dairy milk chocolate, and all the runners around me at some the 30 kilometer mark.
00:53:53
UKRunChat
Oh, yeah.
00:54:03
Lisa Jackson
So when you've been eating stuff like that, or jelly babies, or gels, which I don't really like, but I dilute with water, but it's all sweet stuff. To have something salty is just an utter treat. And then I love hot tea as well. Like,
00:54:15
Lisa Jackson
That just makes a race. If a race has got a tea truck or free tea, then they get five stars from me. You know, i just love my tea, um hot tea, because I think that's what I miss most when I'm running marathons, because I take so long to finish them, you know, seven, eight hours now.
00:54:28
Lisa Jackson
um I drink probably 10, 15, 20 cups of tea and coffee a day. So to spend eight hours not drinking tea and coffee is very, very um sort of a shock to my system.
00:54:35
UKRunChat
yeah
00:54:38
Lisa Jackson
So I just head straight for that tea and it just makes me so happy.
00:54:42
UKRunChat
Oh, I love that. I'm with you there on the tea. I love a cup of tea after a run.
00:54:45
Lisa Jackson
Oh, good, good, good thing.
00:54:46
UKRunChat
Yes.
00:54:47
Lisa Jackson
Good for you.
00:54:48
UKRunChat
and Who is your dream person to run a marathon with?
00:54:53
Lisa Jackson
Oh, I had to think about this a lot. And you know, ah decided it was going to be my two friends, Catherine Switzer and Roger Robinson, because I interviewed Catherine once and say we became friends as a result of the interview. It was supposed to be 20 minutes, turned into a three hour chat, a little bit like today with you and I. And um the thing is, I have actually run with them once. I took them on a running tour of Worthing.
00:55:13
Lisa Jackson
And after about half an hour, Catherine said, ah Lisa, when can we go back to the seafront? and I was thinking why? And she said, no, no, I just want to stretch my legs a little bit. Okay. So i could tell like, you know, she wants to run a bit faster.
00:55:26
Lisa Jackson
So I took them to the seafront and then I let them go.
00:55:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:55:29
Lisa Jackson
Well, within a minute, I couldn't see them. Like they're just gone. Okay. And Catherine's 21 years older than me. And Roger's 26 years older than me, I think. So they just disappeared into the distance. And then they did come back for me, which was very kind.
00:55:41
Lisa Jackson
So I think I'd like to run with them because they are both so entertaining. I mean, Roger's a running historian and um he just know that what he doesn't know about running isn't worth knowing. And then Catherine just is extremely funny and she's got millions of really fascinating stories to tell.
00:55:55
Lisa Jackson
So what I decided was I wanted to two of them because they're good together, but I think we have to tie their legs together. So they do a three legged marathon. And that would make them slow enough to run with me.
00:56:06
Lisa Jackson
Because I recently, yeah, and I recently ran a 5k Catherine and she beat me by 10 minutes.
00:56:06
UKRunChat
Oh, I love it. Yes.
00:56:11
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:56:11
Lisa Jackson
So um yeah, so you know, there's no way I can run with them unless I get faster, which is unlikely, or we we hobble them.
00:56:18
UKRunChat
Yeah, I know. That's a great answer. I love that. And then last one. and What's your favourite running quote or mantra?
00:56:26
Lisa Jackson
Well, I think it has to be one by Vaclav Havel, who was the former Czech president. And I have to read it to you because it's quite a long one and always get it wrong. But it says, anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous.
00:56:39
Lisa Jackson
Anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not.
Conclusion and Encouragement
00:56:43
Lisa Jackson
And I think that really sums up me is someone actually once said Lisa takes her running seriously, but not herself.
00:56:50
Lisa Jackson
And so that's why you know I run in my flamingo hat and I sometimes run in other fancy dress as well. But I just don't want to be serious all the time. I'm very serious in my day job. you know When I'm writing books or I'm working with my clients, I'm extremely serious person. I mean, we do have laughs, but mainly it's really focused and serious.
00:57:09
Lisa Jackson
So when I'm out running, I just want to have fun. You know, I want my my flappy bits on my flamingo hat to be flapping. I want to be laughing and chatting to people. um and I'm not, I don't want to take myself seriously. So I think, you know, to have to go for a time all the time, and and don't get me wrong, i mean people who aim for times and to achieve them, I'm so full of admiration. I just think they're amazing and the discipline it takes and and and not talking, you know, just running and all that.
00:57:34
Lisa Jackson
I really do. But that's not my kind of running. And they they they must do what they do and love every second of it. I'm sure they do. i wouldn't know because that's not me. So I love being at the back when I have run and my PB in London, which was 438.
00:57:46
Lisa Jackson
I didn't speak to anybody. I just ran like eyes blinkered. And I came away from that. I thought I could have run that on a treadmill. and this This London marathon has been wasted on me. I haven't made a new friend. I haven't talked to anyone. I haven't had and interesting experience.
00:58:00
Lisa Jackson
I've got a good time, but I didn't have a good time. So that's why ah really believe in not taking yourself seriously. I mean, you can if you want to, but if you want to run like me, then you've just got to have, you know, an absolute sense of humor about yourself.
00:58:12
Lisa Jackson
You know, there's no there's no failure. There's only feedback. um As long as I get across the finish line, I don't care, as I say, lost by having a blast. I just want to finish. I just want to get a medal.
00:58:23
Lisa Jackson
And I just want to have fun along the way. That's my goal.
00:58:26
UKRunChat
Oh, I love it. Lisa, you just exude such joy and positivity and enthusiasm for everything you do. Thank you so much for coming coming on the podcast today.
00:58:34
Lisa Jackson
Oh.
00:58:35
UKRunChat
It's been so nice chatting to you, honestly.
00:58:37
Lisa Jackson
Oh, it has been absolutely amazing. And to meet a fellow tea drinker.
00:58:41
UKRunChat
Yes.
00:58:42
Lisa Jackson
I love people who worship, you know, at the altar of tea.
00:58:43
UKRunChat
and
00:58:46
UKRunChat
Oh, well, thanks for joining us. and Lisa's new book, um Still Running After All These Tears, is available now. We'll include the link to it in the show notes. And thank you so much for listening to today's episode. We really hope you enjoyed it. Please do share it with a friend, leave us a review and tag us on social to let us know what you thought.
00:59:05
UKRunChat
Until next time, happy running.