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Running Culture USA vs UK with Virginia Ultra-Runner John Calabrese
139 Plays7 days ago
This week on the UKRunChat Podcast, we head across the Atlantic to Virginia to chat with ultra-runner John Calabrese.
John started running in 2017 during a difficult period in his life and has since thrown himself into everything from road marathons to some of the toughest trail races in the US, including the legendary Barkley.
We dive into:
- How running became a lifeline during John's divorce
- Moving from road marathon training into the shock of his first trail marathon
- The community spirit of trail running vs road culture
- How he met new lifelong friends on the trail, despite showing up alone
- The quirks of US trail etiquette (including Philly cheesesteaks at aid stations!
- Why failure is essential in ultra running
- Why US races are often expensive
- The logistics and cost behind bucket-list events like Badwater 135
- Free US trail races
- Running culture: USA vs UK
A raw, honest, funny, and insightful conversation about what running gives us, how the culture differs across countries, and why the trail community is changing lives one muddy hill at a time.
Follow John on Instagram
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Transcript
Introduction: Meet John, the Runner
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Hello, welcome to the UK Run Chat podcast. Today, we're heading across the Atlantic to chat to John. We're hoping to chat through some of the differences between racing in the UK and the USA and also get an insight into some grueling ultra marathons which John's got planned.
00:00:19
UKRunChat
So John's from Virginia. um He's a Navy veteran and a passionate runner who's been lacing up since 2017. Hi, John. Thank you so much for joining us from across the pond today. How are you?
00:00:30
John
I'm fine. Thank you for having me. It's great to talk to you.
00:00:33
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's really it's really nice to have you on actually for a different perspective into running. So can you start with just telling us a little bit about you and your running really?
John's Running Journey Begins
00:00:41
UKRunChat
How did you get into it?
00:00:42
John
So I liked sports growing up, but i I dreaded running. I always looked at just like a component to other sports. Like, you know, I love, you know, like football and baseball, ah playing hockey and stuff like that.
00:00:55
John
And um I just didn't, you know it's hard for kids to really get into running. I think like, This sounds really messed up, but for me, I had to get a lot more broken in life before I could appreciate the benefits of running and the mental health and just physical endurance. like i just I feel like it really works for older runners.
00:01:13
John
i mean Don't get me wrong. I know knew a lot of young people that run now too, but just for me personally, i wasn't ready for what running could do for me early on, but I'm i'm just glad I found it and I'm you know happy that it's such a big part of my life now.
00:01:26
UKRunChat
Yeah, what's the running culture like when you're growing up kind of it's during school?
00:01:30
John
so
00:01:30
UKRunChat
How how is it? is it because it's here in the UK?
00:01:32
John
yeah
00:01:33
UKRunChat
It's very, it it does kind of get quite competitive. So interested to hear what it's like from your perspective.
00:01:40
John
so like I mean, I grew up in the nineties and, um, it's so funny thinking back how to like things were reversed now. I mean, like the nineties were more just like to me i now I could be totally off here, but just growing up, you know, I was more about like watching movies, smoking cigarettes and like, you know, getting crazy, getting crazy. Like I was really into film, like Tarantino movies and stuff like that. I wanted to live out like that kind of stuff. So like, um, yeah, I wasn't thinking about sports much. And if I was, it wasn't running. It was like, you know, football and things like that nature. So, um,
00:02:09
John
as much as I love the nineties, I'm kind of glad I'm out of there. Cause I was a pretty wild child and um yeah, I needed to ah calm down some, you know, grow up, have a kid and conquer some demons through running those demons.
00:02:22
UKRunChat
Yeah. So how did you get started
Running as Therapy
00:02:25
UKRunChat
then? What got you into it?
00:02:26
John
um So I was going through ah pretty messy divorce and um for a while, like, you know, since I wasn't like, I think for a while, even like when I was in, you know, middle and high school, like I knew I wanted to like run a marathon at some point or at least like, like give it a go, and like see what I could do with it.
00:02:43
John
um But it took a long time to get there. And like, you know, finally I was going through divorce and um I was just like, you know what? I want to run a marathon. Let's do it. So I don't even think it was, I don't even think it was the marathon itself. I just wanted to do something that would consume me. Like I just wanted something that would just take my time and just like change me.
00:03:03
John
So I wouldn't have to think about with the real world. and Yeah, that's exactly what it did. I feel like I just created a parallel dimension where I just disappeared in the long runs, listened to heavy metal and just, you know, created my own safe place.
00:03:15
UKRunChat
Yeah, running's like that, isn't it? Especially marathon training. I think you picked a good one there to really kind of dive into. What did you learn during that process then of of training for that marathon?
00:03:27
John
So that that was interesting. I feel like I did a lot of healing. It wasn't even like about doing the marathon. Like maybe I thought it was, and maybe that's why i got into it, but, um, it was just more about like healing, like not even just stuff going on with divorce, but just like, like childhood trauma, just like, you know just stuff, you know, missed opportunities, you know, just, just, I, I processed a lot.
00:03:47
John
I think I just need some kind of way to sort through all that stuff in my head. And that was it. You know, I never really meditated or anything before that. And just doing like longer runs, I could process things a lot better, you know, and, um It just worked out really well for me. I don't know how it happened.
00:04:02
John
I don't know why it happened, but I'm really glad it did because I don't think I ever really found the skills in life to process things like that and just kind of like get deep into like I don't want to say meditative state because, you know, you're running you're still running and everything, but like, you know, just get into that state where you can just kind of like relax and just, you know, get into a zone and think about things on a different level.
00:04:21
UKRunChat
Yeah, it does happen naturally, doesn't it, Jo, in a long run? I think your mind just kind of not empties necessarily, but it gets rid of all the day to day stuff. It's it's quite powerful like that. when We never get taught that as kids, really, do we? have to Like you're saying, how to process those emotions. It's it's a really important skill.
00:04:39
John
Yeah, it took it's a shame it took it to like, what, 37 to figure that out. yeah um Yeah, because before then, you it was you know more like, you know unfortunately, I fell into the path of like being able to um you know handle that stuff through like alcohol or like stuff like that, which is horrible. and you know But I mean, I used it as a long time because, I mean, like again, in the 90s, it was different. yeah Kids were you ah underage drinking, stuff like that, just a lot of bad stuff. And I definitely got... um into that whole thing just because like I feel like I couldn't um properly you know process things or just like, you know I had so much anxiety. um Yeah, it just didn't really fit in. Kind of an outcast. i just kind of like, I think I was just like in high school ah just trying to survive, you know, just whoever would accept me I was with. And even if they were a bad influence, I was hanging out with them. I just wanted some kind of, you know, friendship and some kind of like help to pull through it it. was it was rough.
00:05:34
UKRunChat
Yeah, i think I think that's a normal human thing, isn't it? To seek out kind of company, really. and So going going back to marathon training then, how was the experience of ah getting those longer miles in?
Discovering Long-Distance and Trail Running
00:05:47
UKRunChat
Was it was a shock?
00:05:47
John
Awesome.
00:05:48
UKRunChat
Did it come easy to you?
00:05:49
John
It was so weird. Like, I don't even, I, I even now I'm doing way more stuff now, but like, I look back and just how I was able to jump into doing longer runs on my own. Like I I'm, I'm like so proud of myself still like for that. Like I'm more proud the of myself then than the stuff I do now, because like, like, how do you, like,
00:06:08
John
When you really think about that, like how do you just how does anybody just make that jump from being like a non-runner, you know somebody that didn't do any of that stuff, just to being like, hey, I'm going to do this? like That fires me up more than anything. like When I see people make a transition, like you know friends and stuff like that, like I think that's just a really powerful thing. like just Where do you get that motivation from? like That's so deep.
00:06:30
UKRunChat
Yeah, it it does. It really changes you as a person, I think, even training for a marathon, doesn't it? Because you're committing to yourself, really.
00:06:38
John
It does. It's like, so it's like super inspirational. ah Yeah. And I like, you know, people I run with, I see, i think that I'd rather run with somebody that's just getting into the, you know, getting into running than somebody that's more established. This is, I love seeing the passion in their eyes about it. Cause they're just so happy. I'm like, they're able to do it. And that, that fires me up more than like chasing any kind of like time or anything like that, or just more like self-promotional type stuff. Like I just, I generally like to see people like, Hey, I was able to do this, you know, like it just,
00:07:07
John
that that's the stuff that fires me up. I love it.
00:07:09
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's amazing. I've i've got goosebumps, actually. Yeah, that's it it's making me kind of excited as well.
00:07:11
John
Yeah.
00:07:13
UKRunChat
so So how did the marathon go then? Which one was it?
00:07:16
John
So I did the Newport news one city marathon. Um, and I picked that one just cause it's, you it was somewhat nearby. It's, it's really inexpensive race and a great overall, you know, I feel it's like, ah it's kind of like a gem around here. Like a whole not a whole lot of people talk about it, but it's an awesome course. It's real fast. Um, you know, I had a great time on it and, uh,
00:07:36
John
Yeah, the only bad, my only you negative negative thing about it is that I wanted to do another one immediately after it just because I was like, I was like sad it was over. I was like, oh my gosh, that was so much fun.
00:07:48
John
Like ah I needed another. So I just, you know I signed up for like the next available, um the next one that was I could, that was nearby and it was a trail race. And I just thought it was going be the same type of thing, but oh no, it was completely different and I even liked it better. So I just kept upping the ante from there. but
00:08:04
UKRunChat
Yeah, i was okay, so you went straight from road then. see So I assume you'd done all your training for the first marathon on road, had you?
00:08:11
John
Well, so like where I live is pretty rural. It's a mix of road and like some, um some gravel, like ah just, you know, country roads and stuff like that. So yeah, primarily all I trained on was just like by myself, like on these long um roads, which is again, kind of crazy. Cause like, again, going back to what we talked about before, like I never would have thought that just being alone on these like old country roads would be able to get me to like, you get like into like a state like that, where I'm like thinking about stuff I never knew I hadn't done for you forever. And you make me feel like a kid again. it's just, it's such a wild time. I think the training actually itself, I like more than the races. I think that's the, the that's the fun part right there.
00:08:50
UKRunChat
Yeah, you're not the first person to have said that to me recently, actually. its The training is, I don't know what to say about it really, but what am i trying to say? but The training kind of, it it is the journey really, isn't it?
00:09:03
UKRunChat
The race is kind of a celebration of all that's come before, I guess.
00:09:06
John
Yeah. Which I think it's harder to especially like, you know like we just talked before the pod started about like, um, for, you know, yeah having kids and stuff like that.
00:09:16
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:16
John
That's the adventure. Like, you know, you, you're not going to have structured day. You're going to have to be able to make changes on the fly. That's the adventure right there. Like, Hey, I got a window here. I can get in a three mile run. Okay. I can do this one later. Like that. I love that stuff. Like that's, or like anytime, like I keep running shoes.
00:09:31
John
You should see the back of them. I'll send you a picture for the podcast. like ah the back of my or
00:09:35
UKRunChat
yeah
00:09:36
John
but i have like a hatchback car. the The back part is all filled with shoes like so like and adventurous stuff. So like if I have to, i mean, I got trail shoes in there. I got road shoes. I can just jump on i can just jump out and get in the run whenever.
00:09:49
UKRunChat
yeah oh that's great that's that's good preparation i like that so how did that trail marathon compare to your road experience then was it bit of
00:09:56
John
So as much as i like the road, the the trail one was way cooler. So like... um I met so many cool people. Like, so I met this lady, Melinda, and she kind of caught me the ropes because didn't understand like what people were doing at first. Like I saw people walking hills and stuff and i was like, what? This is lame. Why are they doing that?
00:10:11
John
But then like I quickly figured out, I was like whoa, because there was a major elevation on this race. Like I forget the the exact amount, but it was way more than on the flat marathon I did. So like I figured out pretty quick and she taught me the ropes. But like we're great friends even now. Like so like this is person this is the person I met my first trail race. Like um I ended up like,
00:10:30
John
in that same year, I got into like a really difficult race to get into the Barkley fall classic. And, uh, I ended end up crashing at her house with some guy I picked up on the way there that he didn't even knew Now he's one of my best friends also in terms of running my friend, Eric.
00:10:45
John
Yeah. Like that's the trail community. Like, you know you're, you're, you find yourself like hanging out with people that you rarely, that you don't really know that well, but they're your good friends and they're supporting you. And you know, you're all like, you know, working together to complete a race or,
00:10:57
John
you know, get to a race or, you know, work on logistics. Cause I mean, like, let's be honest, like, and this is a good, this is something I want to talk to you about about the UK races here in the States.
00:11:05
UKRunChat
yeah
00:11:07
John
Races are expensive. So like friends really come, you know, it's good to have friends that can, that that are fired up that to help you out and you can help them out. And that's one thing I got to get better at. Like, cause I'm like a dad and stuff like that. Like I, I try to set time for others a lot, but I need to do better at that. Cause I feel like a lot of people help me out and I don't help them out enough. I feel bad about that. I need to,
00:11:27
John
I need to step that up.
00:11:28
UKRunChat
Yeah, I know you can't be everywhere at once though, can you, John? You know, it's tough.
00:11:31
John
Well, that's the tough thing about like, you know, being 45 and wanting to do, just being so passionate about a sport at this age, because like, yeah, I think that's my biggest regret about not getting this when I was younger, because like I could have done more stuff like that, had more time to spend.
00:11:32
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:46
John
I could have done stuff like the Appalachian trail or like a trans con across America or something. Um, instead of being at bars or being an idiot, you know, like I, that's my biggest regret or not doing cross country in like high school, like that kind of stuff. But ah yeah, I try to balance the time as best I can though. I i use that also as fuel. Like, Hey, you know what?
00:12:04
John
You missed the opportunity back then, but you know what? Use that to drive you now, you know, take advantage of it now and don't miss out. Mm-hmm.
00:12:10
UKRunChat
Yeah, but yeah, you're here now though, aren't you? So that's the main thing. and So you mentioned the Barclay Fall Classic there.
Facing Challenges: The Barclay Fall Classic
00:12:16
UKRunChat
So over here, we've obviously heard of the Barclay Marathons. Is it done in kind of, is it the same area? Is it based?
00:12:22
John
Yeah, it's same exact course, really.
00:12:23
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:24
John
Well, kind of. So it's in this on the same trails and stuff. I'm not going to say it's the exact course because it changes.
00:12:29
UKRunChat
yeah
00:12:29
John
Laz changes it up and makes it brutal. Like this year, I didn't get to run it because I had some injuries and some stuff going on, unfortunately. But um only 20 people finished out of like 450. Like, yeah, so every year Laz will try to make it as like brutal as possible to keep people on edge.
00:12:40
UKRunChat
yeah
00:12:44
John
So, yeah, that's one of the reasons I'm training as hard as I am now because I want to be one of those finishers, no matter what. So I got i gotta to step it up.
00:12:52
UKRunChat
yeah so you mentioned it's insane elevation this race what what what is it roughly what's it like you're
00:12:57
John
So I'm not going to throw anything out there because you're not supposed to have GPS or anything. I've heard, I've heard things, but I'm not going to even throw that out there because I don't, want I don't want it to get back around, but ah yeah, like I, I've never used GPS on it.
00:13:09
John
I don't know anything. I don't know anything about that, but um yeah, like ah it's a lot. It's, it's like, I want to say it's comparable more to like a 50 mile or a hundred mile, like some one hundred milers, even it's, I mean, you're just, at some points you're just climbing up.
00:13:22
John
Like, like you're like, you're like mountain climbing. It's like, but it's like there's a part where you like,
00:13:25
UKRunChat
wow
00:13:27
John
you come out from like, ah you go through a prison also. you You scale a wall and then you go ah out of prison and then um you climb up this this horrible mountain called Rat Jaw that's you know filled with briars.
00:13:38
John
Yeah, you're you're you're climbing on briars basically, like sharp briars. You have to have gloves on. And yeah, it's pretty brutal. It's an awesome race. It's more like an obstacle course race, really. I've never really ran obstacle course races except for stuff I i see on ultras, like rock scrambles and stuff like that. But Barkley is...
00:13:56
John
its own race. I, yeah, it's awesome. it So it's my, it's, it's probably my favorite race. I don't think there's anything that compares.
00:14:03
UKRunChat
Yeah. How, how difficult is it to kind of get into? Cause there's quite a lot of secrecy surrounding it.
00:14:08
John
Well, so this, for the 50 K, uh, the fall classic, it's easier of course, cause there's more people he lets in like, I think like 450 or something like that, maybe more, but, um, like for that one, I mean, like they require now that you have a 50 K done, ah you know, which is good because you don't want to go out.
00:14:22
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:25
John
I mean, I, so, I, when I did it my first time, I didn't have, I just had a marathon. That was two marathons at that point. I had the the road one and the trail one. So like, I'm going honest. I had no business being there, but I, um, I didn't DNF it. I got the marathon finish.
00:14:40
John
Um, but there's a difference. So like the marathon finish is if you don't make the cutoff or you quit early, uh, you get to a decision point where you see Laz and he asks you if you want to keep going.
00:14:50
John
And, uh, yeah, if you have enough time, he'll let you go. And then you can complete the 50 K. But if you, you know, you're on, you know, you're not going to make the time goal, then you have to just settle for the marathon. So that's why I got my first two times when I did it.
00:15:04
John
And, um, you know, like for anyone that says that Laz is like a sadist and all that stuff. I think that's like, I don't think that's really fair because like, honestly, like this race got me to be ah much better runner. Cause I would like, I think in this world, we need the, we need to fail ah in ways. I think it's too safe.
00:15:22
John
And we need really hard things to push us because if Laz would just give me the 50 K the first, the first couple of times, I, it wouldn't have allowed me to push myself. So like, basically like after my second marathon, I was angry because like, I was really close and like, I had so much time left over. I was seeing all the 50 K people come in, you know, didn't have enough, I didn't have enough time to get the 50 K, but I had no, I had ah plenty of time to get the marathon.
00:15:47
John
And um yeah, so I just was like waiting for everyone to get done. I was so mad. And then COVID happened after that. So there, There was like a couple of years I didn't get into the fall classic. And then when I got back, I just, I finished my next three. Cause like, I was just so motivated and pumped. Cause that's like so much time to sit there and let that fester. Like, Hey, you are good enough. if You can get this done. You just got to train harder.
00:16:05
John
And yeah, that's the kind of stuff that i like. I mean, I don't want something easy. I want like, you know, I want, that's why I stand for hard races. I want to be pushed and I i want to, know, I want to have that fear that I can fail because again, I,
00:16:18
John
A lot of participation trophies are out there and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But for me personally, I don't want my safety guaranteed. Like that's why I pay for races and stuff like that. That's why I put in the work because I want to, I, want you know, I want the possibility of failure out there. I want to push myself.
00:16:33
UKRunChat
Yeah, I think that's really important. I don't think we teach our kids enough about failure nowadays and we grow up kind of expecting things to be handed to us on a plate, don't we?
00:16:43
John
Yeah.
00:16:43
UKRunChat
I think that's really important. and I mean,
00:16:46
John
And don't get me wrong. I mean, like, there and there's nothing wrong with it in my opinion. There's nothing wrong with that. But for me personally, like i just, um, a participation trophy is not going to cut it in most cases. Like in some cases, yeah. Like if I do like a big marathon and stuff and I'm having fun, cool.
00:17:03
John
But like, if I if I really want to go for it, like, yeah, I'll do a race like, you know, Barkley fall classic, or, you know, I've got a bunch of lotteries I'm looking at this year. I mean, money is a thing for the, you know, going back to how much it costs here for some of these races.
00:17:13
UKRunChat
Yeah, let's
The Cost of Racing
00:17:15
John
That's, That's a decider. Yeah. But, but, what but, but, but again, the funny thing with that is like, I feel like this is a just let me throw this out here real quick.
00:17:15
UKRunChat
talk a bit about that now then.
00:17:18
UKRunChat
yeah
00:17:24
John
It's kind of funny. So like when it comes to much like money and like the more you spend, I feel like that's where you like it straight away from participation trophies and your safety is not guaranteed. It's kind of funny like that. I mean, like the the higher end races, I feel like it's almost like drugs.
00:17:37
John
That's where you get the hallucinations and the crazy stuff. It's hilarious. Like, yeah, you, you, you pay extra for that stuff.
00:17:43
UKRunChat
So, well I mean, what sort of prices are you talking for kind of like trail races that you're doing? Because you mentioned a few in your email to me, which was you're aiming at a 500k. Tell me about it. Yeah. k
00:17:54
John
yeah So that's when I'm trying.
00:17:54
UKRunChat
so me
00:17:55
John
So i didn't get, I was on the fence about that one at first because um and schedule and stuff like that. That's the ball state, another last race. yeah I mean, like if you're doing a 500 K and you're out there for like multiple days. Yeah. Like you're, you that's an adventure right there. You know, you're, you're going to gas stations for food, you know, like you're, know, you just become homeless basically for the little period of time.
00:18:17
John
Like, guy yeah, you pay, but you pay good money for that now, you know, it's good. It's interesting, but actually, that race is pretty affordable compared to some. Like there's, there's a lot of races on like the West coast that are like, well, over a thousand dollars. So like ball state, I feel is like a really good value, but I mean, don't get me wrong though. All these high end races, they're totally worth it. My opinion. i just, I need to find a good revenue stream to get into it um That's my only, that's my only downside with them.
00:18:38
UKRunChat
um
00:18:41
UKRunChat
ah Yeah, i mean, this the thing. I often wonder how people could afford to do what all those kind of big, you know, that the big name races, because you're looking Badwater as well, aren't you?
00:18:51
John
I yeah, that's on the list. I mean, like, I'm, ah I've been scared to put in the lottery for that for a while, just because again, like, ah you know, I either was in a relationship where my significant other was like, no, you're you're not doing that. Because like, and I get that because like the money and stuff like that. But like, you know, um now I'm kind of in a place where, you know, um the woman I'm seeing is very supportive. And she would be like, you know okay, with that, ah you know, not tell me that stupid or anything like that, which is important, you know, you have to have you know, it's kind of sad that, you know in some relationships, even with like a runner, they're going to, they're not going to give you like, and I get it too, because this is, let's be honest, this is a selfish sport. I mean, it's expensive.
00:19:29
John
It's time consuming. It's rough. um You know, but I think it
Supportive Relationships and Running
00:19:33
John
boils down to this. Like, even if like you really love somebody, if they're not going to be like on board or they think what you do is stupid, you can't be with that person. It sucks, but that's just how it is.
00:19:42
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's hard, isn't it, when you're in that situation, I guess.
00:19:45
John
It is. but you got to chase the dreams, though. You you can't let it you can't let them get to you.
00:19:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:49
John
You just
00:19:50
UKRunChat
Yeah. So tell us a bit about Badwater then. What is so hard about that race in particular? Because everybody speaks about that race with a sort of reverence that it's it's so tough.
00:20:01
UKRunChat
what What is it about it that draws you to it?
00:20:03
John
got to let them So for me, there's multiple things for this for me. So I live on the East Coast, so it's expensive. That's the first thing.
00:20:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:20:09
John
Uh, it makes, that's the first barrier because, you're scared to jump in the lottery because you got to spend a lot of money because you have to have a crew, you have to have flights out there, hotels, um, a van, basically all the logistics that's really hard to work.
00:20:22
John
Then if you're at the start line, you're, you're, you're already screwed. Cause you're in death Valley. you know, it could get like extremely hot there.
00:20:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:20:29
John
yeah And, uh, you know, you're, you're climbing up elevation. You're on the road the whole time. The road will burn your shoes. Um, you know, You have to have the right gear also. so you know, you don't get like completely sunburned and all that stuff.
00:20:42
John
um Yeah. And that's the kind of stuff that you see. That's the that's the funny thing for me about the sport. Like, I love running so much. Like, I love that stuff. Like, you just get me on that line. I just don't like the other stuff, like, you know, the planning and all that stuff. Just get me on the line of any race and I'll have the time of my life. But yeah.
00:20:58
John
yeah
00:20:59
UKRunChat
you like Do you like turning up to a trail race like that or, ah you know, a big race with without really knowing what's ahead? Or are you kind of a, do you like to be organised and prepared?
00:21:11
UKRunChat
Will you go and crew a race first and see what's going on?
00:21:13
John
That's a great, that's a very hilarious and great question in terms of me, because um yeah, I'm, I'll be honest with you. and so like ah if I got into a race like Badwater, would definitely plan in advance because you have, he basically makes you have to do Cause like, that's an event.
00:21:27
John
I mean, it's not, a I don't know. I'm not going to answer that, but i basically like, it's I mean, it's a lot of money that you're putting forward towards it.
00:21:33
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:21:34
John
So um you have to respect it. You can't just be like, oh I'm just going to do this one on a whim. You have to respect it. But, a lot of the times because I'm in such a hurry, I will just like show up to a random race and be like, Oh wow, this cough is way faster than I expected. I'm in deep, I'm in deep shit here. I got it. I got it. I got a haul that happens to me constantly, but you know what? In a way that's kind of good for me because, um, if I knew ahead of time, I might not have signed up or at the same time, like, you know, I feel like for me, unless it's like something that you have to spend a lot of money on, it's better for me just to be ignorant going into a race. Like,
00:22:06
John
you know, like baseball players, like Lenny Dykstra, he doesn't care that he obviously doesn't care what's going to happen to him every at bat, like, but you know, player from back in the day, he just had this huge wad of like chew, and you just like hammer, and then if he struck out, whatever, i mean, that's kind of like how I go about all sorts, I just do a lot of them.
00:22:22
John
If I DNF, I DNF, you know, it happens. Yeah, I've got a lot of them. I'm not ashamed to say that. But yeah, I just kind of go into it happy and, you know, ignorant. And I feel like that works, you know, for the most part. But if I start forking over a lot of money for races and I got to respect them more.
00:22:37
John
But yeah, I'm kind of happy-go-lucky type when it comes to to running.
00:22:41
UKRunChat
Yeah, so so you're signing up to a lot of ultras. kind of how How often are you are you racing ah ah a weekend, say?
00:22:45
John
So this year was weird. um I got out of a really tough relationship. Again, I kind of like mentioned that earlier. it drained like my soul basically. I mean, like I had pneumonia. I had a lot of residuals from that. I didn't run for like months at a time. Like I kept on getting injured or like I couldn't run. Like I would, but a funny story. So like I was in a grand prix for a local racer out here and I was going to win like masters if I just stood up to one more race and I was going to do it with pneumonia. And like, was, I, I went into like the doctors to get like checked out, like, you know before I went and they were like,
00:23:23
John
running. You're like, you're not doing any running. You're going to, you're going to lay down and you're going to rest for like a week. I'm like, doc, but it's the grand prix. So like, yeah, I was just like off and uh, not able to run. and And then, um, you know, I had to do some trial and error. Like I did a couple hundreds this year and I'd, and I've, I've deemed up some races this year just cause I was trying to get back, um, probably too soon at times.
Training and Community
00:23:46
John
and But, uh, if you look at my results now, like I'm, I'm like running once and twice a weekend, like, uh, the the last like few weeks I've done like back-to-back ultras on the same weekend or like Marine Corps marathon and a 50 K my favorite last weekend was this. I did ah a 50 K and then like a decent time. Like, I think like six 40. I mean, I don't like going fast on the trails, but then the next day I did a five K and I got a 1930 smoked it. It was awesome. Yeah.
00:24:11
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:24:12
John
So I'm getting, i I'm getting stronger, but like, you know, any of my detractors, I mean, like, you know, they, they might, you know, People will easily point out that, you know, like I do too much with it, but I mean like once I get healthy, I'm fine. you know, like I'm, I've got a better routine down now from dealing with the pneumonia and the stress and all that stuff from earlier in the year. I go to the gym more, I cross train doing more swimming, even thinking about doing a marathon swim next year. I'm thinking about it. Those are expensive too. Those are like, those are expensive, but um yeah, I've got, know, I'm super motivated now, got through some trauma and now I'm ready to fly.
00:24:47
UKRunChat
Yeah, i I guess as long as you're getting your recovery okay and your your body's trained to do that distance, I guess it it it copes okay with it, does it?
00:24:56
John
I mean, it's, I think what happened in the last couple of years, like I really got into somebody like a significant other's training plans and stuff and it was helping them more than helping myself.
00:25:08
John
And I think that's the problem. Like when you're trying to help. And again, I kind of mentioned this earlier. I like seeing people grow in the sport and get better. And i think almost to a detriment because like, you know, if you date somebody and you know, you're trying to get them to a certain level, you forget yourself. It's easy to do that.
00:25:25
John
And, you know, i've I really had to dig deep and think about this and I couldn't stay with somebody that I was going to pour to too like that much into and lose my own, my own self. You can't do that.
00:25:36
UKRunChat
No. So what does your training look like during the week? then if you I guess if you're racing a lot at weekends, you don't do as much running during the week. Are you mostly doing gym-based stuff?
00:25:45
John
I try to do more gym based stuff. Yeah. And that's, again, that's an area that the last couple of years I completely was lacking on, but yeah, I like to swim a lot.
00:25:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:25:52
John
I like to lift weights. ah do PT core. And I still try to run a little bit during the week. Like if I can, I'll do like two runs a day if I can, or like one somewhat longer run.
00:26:05
John
Like I try to do like, you know, like today I did eight. If I have an open window later, I'm going to try to get in three, um just stuff like that. you know, if I have like some windows, I'll do that. But then I get my longer runs on the weekend, they usually a races.
00:26:18
UKRunChat
Yeah. So I guess you you're always kind of pushing yourself hard at these races to some you kind of take
00:26:22
John
sometimes again on the trail i i just kind of chill though like i don't push it too hard on the trail i just like to finish but and that's a funny thing about the road running community here versus the trail community like you know if i get to a road race and there's certain people there especially like if i know people talk trash about me or something oh i'm gonna try like like at this race this weekend i knew that there were some people there talking some shit so i was like all right i'm gonna show them i ran a 50k yesterday i'm gonna show them ah
00:26:48
UKRunChat
That's good retribution right there, isn't it?
00:26:50
John
It is. Honestly, like that's the only with it that's the only type of thing that pushes me. like I am not a competitive guy, but like you know if you're going to like yeah know if you're go to go out of your way just to be like a jerk, i'm and yeah I am going to get motivated, and I'm probably going to beat you.
00:26:54
UKRunChat
you
00:27:05
UKRunChat
Well, so what's the running community like and near you then? You know, because because here we've got a lot of club runners, and we've got parkrun at the weekend. We've got kind of a lot of, we have a lot of clubs putting on kind of very local races. How does that compare with with over near you?
00:27:22
John
So it's it's interesting dynamic here and it's changed a lot, ah you know, um since COVID and like how prevalent social media is and stuff now. um The road running clubs are interesting. I feel like they're they're more on status, like gear, like fancy gear and stuff like that. And socials, like showing up at bars, which already like, i you know, I don't drink, I don't do that stuff. You know like I'm not looking to use a running club as like Tinder or something. And that unfortunately there's an element to it that also like, there's a lot of like hookup culture and running, which, you know,
00:27:52
John
I'm not like a serial dater or anything like that. Like I just, you know, try to be in a relationship and just, you know, a healthy relationship and just kind of like take it from there. Like I don't need to constantly date or anything like that. um So yeah, like I'm kind of of, I'm kind of turned off to like the road running scene just from that aspect. But I mean, there are some really cool road runners out there, but I think the masses out there just kind of like deter me and also showing up at bars and stuff like that. Like if it's a group run, like, yeah you what we meet at like a coffee shop or like, you know, like something like that.
00:28:21
John
Cool. And, But like, it's sad though. Like just because like, you know, I feel it's probably like this for others around here also. Like if you've been in the run game for a minute, you know, like a lot of people out there. So if if I know certain people are there, I'm just like, you know, like, so it's sad. It's kind of like, I feel like the Rotary community is kind of like high school, like people that have like residuals from there.
00:28:41
John
i mean, like maybe I'm like that too. Like I just told you, cause I didn't do like, you know, cross country or anything like that. Maybe I am living out my high school days now, maybe, but like, there's certain people I just don't want to like, you know, I've been running with a lot of the same people in this area for a while. So if there's certain people there, I'm just like, Nope, I ain't going to show up.
00:28:58
John
But with that said, I feel like the trail community is very, a lot more healthier in that regard. Don't get me wrong. There's still some of that stuff there, but um you know, they're more jokey.
00:29:06
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:29:10
John
Like they won't wear as much like high dollar stuff. I mean, don't get me wrong. Trail gear is very expensive, but you'll, you'll, you'll more like more than likely see people out there just like, running with like no shirt and short, like, you know a cheap pair of shorts or like something funny, like Aloha shirt, um you know, or like, and there's a lot of like really fast runners on the trail that will just like try to show up to races looking like they're not good. And then just like crush it. You know like they'll just be wearing like funny gear something like that to make people think they're like a newbie. And just like, like smoke people. I just think it's like a funnier community and there's less toxicity, less emphasis on like times and stuff like that and status and what you're wearing. It's just, um,
00:29:47
John
I think it's more refreshing than the road-running community. And you know maybe I'm out of touch with the road-running community. Maybe that's just me, my but my personal biases and stuff like that. But that's just what I see.
00:29:56
UKRunChat
Yeah, I don't know. i think you just need to find your tribe, don't you, and who kind of vibes with you, I think. I mean, what's what's the vibe at kind of local trail races?
00:30:02
John
Yeah.
00:30:05
UKRunChat
What's it like? and
00:30:07
UKRunChat
Is there kind of clubs?
00:30:07
John
It's a party.
00:30:08
John
It's a party.
00:30:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:08
John
yeah i mean, like yeah. i i so Again, I don't drink, but like you know people will bring booze the aid stations. like this so like there's we have a local club here called the virginia happy trails running club uh they're amazing like know you show up with like a food item to and like the races are free and like it's not out of the ordinary for you to get to an aid station and be like yeah the the aid station captain will be like hey do you want a philly cheesesteak i can make you one right now like it like what where am i it's amazing like where else would you it's that cool of a community that you would
00:30:43
John
be able to get a Philly cheesesteak on ultra run amazing in the mountains of all places.
00:30:47
UKRunChat
ah That sounds great. So these races are free, you say? So that's...
00:30:51
John
Most of them. Yeah. You just bring like an item and ah you know, you contribute to the club in other ways like membership or if you want to like donate and stuff like that, but like, you know, it's a huge club and they're really awesome. And honestly, if like they weren't around here, I probably wouldn't get in as many ultras as I do just because um yeah, they're, ah they're able to put on these races for free and like,
00:31:09
John
have aid stations out there. So you can get a lot of like really cool mountain runs and have aid out there. So you're not by yourself. Cause like sometimes it's really hard to like do these runs on your own. I've done, I've done a lot of them on my my own. And I mean, i don't want to say the club is like a crutch for me, but I mean, it kind of is. They're so good. I mean, like sometimes I'll go to like races that i you even pay for and be like, well, this isn't as good as as the free race of happy trails. What's going on with this? Like, they're just, they're too good.
00:31:35
John
Happy trails is too good. We're, we're, they're making us, but they're making us off. They're too good.
00:31:39
UKRunChat
this It sounds brilliant.
00:31:41
John
They're awesome. That's um and that's why what I'm saying too, like about, so like after going to one of their events and then going to like a road, like a road event or something, or like a group, where I'm just like in, like, I see people like people like on your left, on your left, like, you just like that type of stuff. I'm just like, what? Like, you know, people are just way more willing to talk to you on the trail. Even if they're going to pass you, they'll stop and like talk to you for a second. It's just like a cooler, it's just a cooler energy. Like not people just trying to kick your ass out there, you know?
00:32:06
UKRunChat
Yeah, no, I think it sounds a pretty similar experience to hear, actually. I recently, because I'm more of a trail runner, nothing like the trails over near you, which sound very mountainous. um But I recently did a road half marathon and I nearly got hit on the head three times as people were, you know, lobbing the bottles of water into the bin.
00:32:25
UKRunChat
And I thought, this does not happen on the trail. Really, it's not happening.
00:32:27
John
they They threw but they throw bottles of water? Uh-huh.
00:32:30
UKRunChat
Well, yeah, they were kind of aiming for the bin. You know, they give out bottles of water during the race and people were just like trying to throw them in the bin. I nearly got hit three times.
00:32:38
John
Yeah, so, like, bigger bigger races here.
00:32:39
UKRunChat
I thought, oh, this is not for me. Yeah.
00:32:42
John
Yeah, yeah like, ah sometimes a bigger race is here. Like, people will just stop in front of you when you're running. Or, like, so, like, I push, like, you know, people in wheel like ah in racing wheelchairs. And, like, some of the times, like, this is what drives me insane about races. You road races.
00:32:56
John
People have headphones on. and they can't hear you. And like, I'm just trying to get people. I'm like, Hey, I'm like, I'm like a quarterback out there. I'm like, Hey, can you get hit that person? Can you tap them? And then they get mad. Why are you touching me?
00:33:07
John
Because you can't hear, know, like I'm trying to get people out of the way.
00:33:09
UKRunChat
on the
00:33:11
John
and So I don't run them over. it's just like, i wish that they would just like eliminate headphones altogether. Like at least like the, the buds and stuff like that. Or if you have like the bone conducting ones or whatever, um you know, just turn down the volume so people can hear So you can hear what's going on around you.
00:33:25
John
That, Is it like that over there? like do people use headphones like that?
00:33:28
UKRunChat
Yeah, they do. We see that more at parkrun nowadays because a lot of, I think it's UK Athletics have banned the use of in-ear headphones. They've got, I think you're only allowed the kind of bone conductor on so that you can hear what's coming.
00:33:42
UKRunChat
So it is it is better. um
00:33:44
John
I got you.
00:33:45
UKRunChat
ah yeah, if if I ever go to parkrun, you're often dodging a lot of people who can't hear you coming. Yeah.
00:33:49
John
Yeah, they're just like, I'm like, dude, what? That's probably, i think that's the most annoying thing about the Rotary Beauty, like I just can't stand headphones. Like i you like ah I mentioned earlier, like when first started running, I listened a lot of like heavy metal. Just, I don't know why, like I just was really into music when I was running back then.
00:34:06
John
And then just once I got comfortable doing the run, you know, I felt that it just clouded my own thoughts. Like I wanted to think my my own stuff was more powerful than something that somebody else made, you know, like, even though I love music, don't get me wrong.
00:34:17
UKRunChat
I
00:34:17
John
I felt like it cut into my meditative time. And yeah, I just, maybe it's just my own disdain for like, me using headphones i'm like projecting that on others i don't know but it's just if if i'm trying to get by you man i don't care just just turn down the volume so i can i can get your attention and don't get mad if i touch your shoulder come on
00:34:34
UKRunChat
don't know, I think if you're a trail runner, like, cause I know I'm like this, I get annoyed when there are too many other people around. So I think that's just me to be honest. honest
00:34:43
John
no no so this is funny like one of my go-to moves is if there's a bunch of people like on the trail i can't stand it when people are like right behind me i'm like you i'm like i'm that dude that's like Hey, you can pass anytime. And if they stay behind me, I'm just like, so I'll be like, Hey, i gotta go to the bathroom. And I'll just like go over to the side show. And like, even if I don't have to, just so they'll get around me. I'll be like, okay, bye.
00:35:04
UKRunChat
So what's Treleticate like in the US then?
00:35:07
John
I mean, so I'm like, this is kind of a debate of thing. Like, cause like a lot of the road runners that go on the trails, you can tell, you can spot a road runner. Cause they're like on your left. Like, you know, the one of those people or like, um, I mean,
00:35:18
John
I feel like trail runners are cool or like yeah like, even if they want to pass you or whatever, that you know you're going to talk a little bit. And then like, it's almost like um standard to say something like oh you'll catch me in a little bit. Or like one of those things, like yeah in there, he's like a little encouraging, like, you know nudge and then bye, you know, like something like that. I mean, that's why I try to do like, I try to like, if I want to pass somebody, I see how they're doing, you know, and you see if they need help or anything, or if they want to gel or like, you know, some food.
00:35:43
John
And um you know, if I am going to go buy them, then yeah, I'll say something nice and leave. That's I, I just, That's me. I think trail runners are just like that. we're built We're built different. We're more polite people.
00:35:54
UKRunChat
I think, yeah, I think it's nice to make lots of friends on the trails as well as I always meet somebody a trail race.
00:35:56
John
Yeah.
00:35:59
John
Yeah, I feel like the road mentality is so soulless out out there. Like, okay, you're like, yeah, this no no conversation. They're just trying to kick everyone's ass. I get that. and they you know so Like I said, sometimes I get competitive, but i feel like it's toxic. you know like I feel like it's better just to like, you know,
00:36:15
John
if even if you are like going for goals and stuff like that, like still be a human, like, you know, like still like at least acknowledge somebody else.
00:36:22
UKRunChat
Yeah. So what are the trails like near you? Are I sense you've got a lot of mountains.
00:36:28
John
So we have, uh, yeah, we, I run a lot mass nothing over here. Um, it's yeah, pretty rocky and technical. I like it. Uh, I can't really run that fast on it. It's more like power. It's like power hiking, but, um, yeah, I, I do a lot of that.
00:36:40
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:36:42
John
Um, we have some cool local trails around Fredericksburg also. I mean, they're not as technical as there. That's the challenge for me also though. Like I run a lot on road during the week. Cause again, I'll run wherever I can. Like if I get a trail run during the week, I'm just like, damn, I am the man. Like, know, like I get fired up i'm like, yeah, I got that in. Cause it's so hard to do. Like, um, and it's so funny too. Like I have trails like 10 minutes for me, but that's like not enough time. Most, but most mornings and stuff like that. So I have to end up running on the road.
00:37:10
John
But yeah, I just think that's really funny that, um, even though the trails are pretty close by, i have to sell for the road a lot just because I have no have no time.
00:37:19
UKRunChat
Yeah, but that's got to help a bit with speed and things though, hasn't it? Because you are naturally slower off road.
00:37:25
John
Oh yeah. And I, I, I am not ashamed about that. Like, you know, like I don't care. Like in, in people, I mean like I would hope that people would know like if I want to like run fast on road, I can, I can go pretty fast. Like, you know, I, like I did the other week, but like if I'm on a trail, i just don't want to trip and fall. That's the bad thing. And if I like,
00:37:42
John
the more especially like the more tired I get on the trail. um Like I, the day before the Marine Corps marathon, I did a 50 K and I hit a route really hard, like just like pushing pace and I went flying. i'm it's I'm lucky that I was still able to do the Marine Corps marathon. i had a great time and everything, but ah yeah, I just, I don't like pushing pace on the trail because I stopped picking up my feet or I stopped paying attention, especially right now with like the leaves on the ground.
00:38:06
John
Yeah. And my eyesight's terrible on top of that.
00:38:06
UKRunChat
yeah
00:38:08
John
I'm such a klutz out there. So yeah, I just, I'm much more comfortable doing a slower pace and I don't care I don't care who beats me out there. You know, I'm not there, I'm not there to, ah to make a name for myself in terms of standings and stuff like that. You know, I just, I like having fun out there again. It's more for like my own, like mental health and just, you know, unplugging and being in nature.
00:38:28
UKRunChat
Yeah. so So you you kind of looking at results afterwards, or are you literally out there just to enjoy yourself?
00:38:34
John
i don't even look at the result. yeah If somebody tells me something now, if I do a road race, like I get, again, like if somebody motivates me by saying some shit that, yeah, I'll definitely look at it. I'm like, yep, gotcha. Or like, you know, like I'll do like that stuff. But like for the most part on a trail race, I don't
Philosophy on Racing: Enjoyment Over Competition
00:38:50
John
even look, I don't care. Like, know, I just, where's the next one? That's my mentality. What's next?
00:38:54
UKRunChat
Yeah. So is there anything you'd like to change about US race and culture then?
00:39:00
John
Oh, wow. Money make it cheaper and more inclusive too. Like, I feel like, I feel like the sport has a problem with just like, it's always like the same people at the races. I want to see, I want to see more people come in more diversity. um And just again, a way I just hope all somehow all around that we can get people to stop being so like comparative and like numbers driven and because it's, it's more than that, you know, just because, you know, I feel like people are doing it wrong. Like, you know, you don't just have fun. Like you don't need to beat people out there. You don't need to like,
00:39:36
John
You don't need to win every race. Just have a fun time out there. You know, and I think that for whatever reason, you know, like in the trail community, we have a lot of people coming in that just want to like kick ass and be on like an and become an Instagram legend and stuff like that. And, you know, seriously, and like it bums me out because like you don't need to do that. Just have fun and be cool. You know, you you mess up the sport doing stuff like that.
00:39:57
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, it it kind of it it gets it gets running out there, I guess, to the masses, doesn't it, suppose. So there is there is that getting the word out. But is is that good thing or a bad thing for running in Europe?
00:40:08
John
I don't know. And that's a good question too. It's good that, you know, people are getting into the sport. I mean, like there's going to be a Badwater movie. I don't know if you're aware of that. there that Hollywood's making.
00:40:14
UKRunChat
Oh, I read that this week. Yeah.
00:40:17
John
Yeah. Yeah. they So like, yeah, now it's going to be even harder again, too. They'll probably up the ante. and They'll probably make it more money, but no. um Yeah. I don't know. i don't know. Like, i don't know if it's good marketing or bad marketing, but it's like, it's, it's good that more people are getting into it. But what my fear is, is like,
00:40:32
John
for people coming in, like, just don't be an asshole. be cool. You know, like disrespect, respect people out there, respect, like, you know, the race directors, the chorus, because like, what bums me out is this, like people that, especially for free races, like this was brought to my attention.
00:40:35
UKRunChat
and
00:40:46
John
I'll bring this up. This is, this was a sad story. So like my friend is a race director and she said that somebody yelled at her so bad. Like she wanted to cry because the course wasn't like marked to their standard, which the course was marked fine.
00:40:58
John
I ran it the same course also. It was fine. And, If you have a free race here in the States that's marked, that's a luxury to begin with, because a lot of times they're not marked. You have to know the trails on your own. and You actually have to know the blazes to go or actually like read a map like how it's so bold of somebody to yell at a race director for not reading. And to the point, and like how entitled are people that, you know like they're going to make they're going to make somebody on the verge of tears because they didn't want to read. know
00:41:27
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. So we we need to be a bit more kind of inclusive and understanding then, don't we there? Yeah.
00:41:32
John
Yeah, and just don't be a just don't be a jerk. I mean, like if if somebody's putting on a free event, especially a free event, if you paid a bunch of buddy, OK, I get your point to an extent, but like you still you still shouldn't be mean.
00:41:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:41:43
John
But you know for a free race, you should just tell them thank you.
00:41:44
UKRunChat
No.
00:41:46
John
shouldn't even say anything.
00:41:48
UKRunChat
Yeah. um so So what have you got coming up next then, personally? You've you've got your name in a few ballots, haven't you?
00:41:55
John
Yeah, so one of my favorite races is coming up. So I'm pushing my buddy Casey at the Richmond eight k this week. So this is kind of like a, um this is kind of like a chill week. I've already done one Ainsley's 5k for Veterans Day yesterday.
00:42:09
John
um so I'm probably going to get like, I'm probably going to try not to gain more than 50 miles this week. so this is kind of a rest week, but next week I'm doing ah the JFK 50 miler iconic race, America's oldest ultra marathon, such an iconic race.
00:42:22
UKRunChat
Oh, is Yeah.
00:42:23
John
Yeah. You, you go onto the Appalachian trail, you go on the CNO canal you get to go through lovely Boonesboro. And one of my favorite places, Williamsport, Maryland. i mean, like, I love that area so much.
00:42:33
John
It means a lot to me. And also I need to, you know I need to exercise some demons out there because like, you know, the last couple of years I did the race with like, you know, somebody I dated in the past and like, I need to make better memories out there, get get rid of those, get rid of those ones and have a better time.
00:42:48
UKRunChat
yes
00:42:49
John
Cause like what I, the cool thing about running is this, like, you know, in races, even if you ran that with somebody else, you know, like you're not stuck to those memories. You could, you know, blaze your own path think we do and do better, you know?
00:43:00
John
And that's why, that's what I'm all about.
00:43:02
UKRunChat
Yeah. You mentioned the Appalachian Trail there. That's a dream of mine to go and even just walk a bit of it. It looks amazing. have Have you done much of the trail?
00:43:10
John
So that's one regret regret i have. When I got out of the military, I should have done it then because I was younger. I didn't have ah ah responsibilities and you know things cost less back then. it would have been easier logistically to do it than now. But um yeah, I've done parts.
00:43:23
John
So one of the runs I really like to do, um we have the four state challenge over here. it starts in PA, like on the PA Appalachian Trail. You do all of Maryland and then ah you go into West Virginia yeah and through Harper's Ferry and then you go into Virginia. So you get four states.
00:43:39
John
in, uh, in one day basically. And it's like 43 miles, but that's like ah my, my training run for the JFK. Cause you get all the Maryland Appalachian trail um and, uh, you get some of the CNO, but it's beautiful. Like, like ah if I could live over there, I would, I would do it a heartbeat. It's so nice. Cause like, I love the Appalachian trail by itself. And then the CNO canal is beautiful. I've done a bunch of races on the CNO canal. I know it's monotonous and it's flat, but it's amazing. i love it.
00:44:04
John
And, uh, Yeah, that's my that's my spot. Anything around there. That's why i love JFK so much. I mean, it's just an iconic race. it's probably I don't think I've ever done ah a trail race with that many people. I think it's like 1,500 or something like that that run it. It's a huge trail race.
00:44:18
John
So like you get to see a lot of people out there. Like a bunch of people, just like road runners, trail runners, just you know random people that just signed up because it's JFK. It's just such a cool thing. And the people also. they love the race. Like they make cookies that say JFK on it. Like, you know people like make their own food at home. It's not like corporate or anything. Like people, I mean, there's a debate because the race is expensive, but what I tell people is this, like, you know what?
00:44:42
John
You're not gonna find that kind of love at any other race out there. And it's America's oldest. And like, when you go to pack a pickup for it, they give you like a book with all these stats. Like, it's just like, there's so much history to it. And just the pictures alone, and like you see, like,
00:44:54
John
from like the older pictures, like when they first did it, like boy Scouts making their own peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on like tables set up. It's just so cool. It's a, there's nothing else like it. and I can't, I can't wait to do it again. That's my, that that's my, um that's what I'm probably looking forward to that the most in next.
00:45:09
John
But then after that, I'm doing the double dog 100. And that this is important to me too. Cause so I've DNF the race twice and I've finished it twice. So this will prove if I'm a loser or winner at it.
00:45:21
John
And I haven't finished at 100 this year. i mean, I've done a lot of hundreds in the past, but, you know, coming back from a lot of stuff I was going through, i just haven't been able to get a hundred done and I'm hoping to, you know get, use that to be my first 100 this year. So I think I can do it. I'm in good shape, but we'll see.
00:45:37
UKRunChat
Yeah, we'll see. Oh, you'll have to let us know how you get on. So when we think about races in the US, over here we hear about Barclay Marathons, obviously. We hear about Badwater.
00:45:48
UKRunChat
We hear about Western States. and this There tends to be kind of the the same few names. so What races would you recommend for someone kind of looking in for a great maybe marathon or ultra
Key East Coast Races
00:46:01
UKRunChat
marathon over in the States?
00:46:02
John
Well, so this is a weird thing.
00:46:03
UKRunChat
What are your favourites?
00:46:05
John
I mean, like, so on the East coast here, it's like completely different than like, you know, trail runners and like, you let's say Colorado and then out West, like, you know, West coast, you know, so we're so different here.
00:46:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:46:16
John
Like, so like on the East coast, we were really, we have like really rocky technical Rudy trails and stuff like that.
00:46:17
UKRunChat
yeah
00:46:21
John
Um, if, if you live here on the East coast, you know, in terms of road, you have to run the Marine Corps marathon. It's the most iconic, it's the most iconic marathon in my opinion.
00:46:32
John
I mean, don't get me wrong. yeah and You know, I've never done New York or Boston or any that stuff, but like Marine Corps Marathon is my hometown race. So like that, that's, I don't care if I do those races, I'm not gonna like them as much as Marine Corps Marathon. I will never. Uh, so that definitely that one army 10 miler. That's another one you run through a lot of the same streets and stuff is the Marine Marathon, just iconic race, cherry blossom 10 miler, you have beautiful time of year here in DC. You could see the cherry blossoms, awesome course. Um, and then, uh,
00:46:59
John
jfk I mean, like if if you're on the East Coast and don't run JFK, I don't care how much you complain about the price or whatever the case is, you should run it at least one time just to see what about, see the history, you know, see the people out there, see the love out there that the volunteers give you and the people in the towns and stuff like that. It's just a wonderful experience.
00:47:15
John
So JFK. And then um other than that, I mean, that's, know, if you live in the DC area that you have to, in my opinion, you absolutely have to run those races. Those are, those are my favorite that try to do every year. I do a lot of other ones other than that.
00:47:31
John
But um like anything Happy Trails does, they're my favorite also. that they They put on some really cool stuff. like ah Just very unique races. And again, inexpensive. So you can afford these more expensive races.
00:47:42
UKRunChat
Yeah. ah
00:47:43
John
But yeah, like we
00:47:43
UKRunChat
Great training for the big ones as well. Yeah.
00:47:46
John
we're lucky in the DC area here, we are so lucky.
00:47:47
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:47:49
John
Because again, Happy Trails is here. And like we have the Marine Corps Marathon, and Army 10-Miler, Cherry Blossom. and j i mean just the fact So JFK is probably like the... the East coast equivalent to like Western States because it's such an old race and it's kind of, I've been, I haven't ran Western States, but I've been to like the packet pickup and stuff like that.
00:48:06
John
Don't get me wrong. The packet pickup at like Western States is like, you know, I can't even describe how awesome it is. Like they give you all kinds of swag and stuff like that. JFK is not like that big. It's kind of more low key, but it's, that's kind of how JFK is. I mean, like, you know, you, you know, there's cool stuff at the packet pickup, but it's not like overblown because it's kind of like,
00:48:25
John
it's a big race, but it's got like that small, field that small feel to it also, which that's kind of what JFK is. It's, it's an interesting race because like, um I feel almost like it has the vibe of like one of the smaller low key races, like the happy trails puts on, but it's, you know, it's the oldest and it's got the, you know, it's got that much clout. So, you know, it, it has the big race vibe, but with that kind of small feel also, it's a super unique ah experience that you have, you have to experience it once at least.
00:48:51
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it's strange that i've I've never heard of that being such a of an old race, yeah.
00:48:55
John
check check it out. It's, it's such a cool race. I've got some race reports out there. It's, it's, it's a race that takes a lot of strategy also, because like from going from terrain, from like road to the Appalachian trail to the C&O canal, which is like a flat tow path back to road. Like there is some strategy on like what shoes to wear and stuff like that. Like what I try to do is wear shoes that have like ah at least a little bit of grip for the AT, but there's been other times I just wear like carbon plated, like marathon shoes. And I just like go at it. I don't even care. Like,
00:49:24
John
I'm kind of interesting with shoes like that. Like even for like a race like JFK, if I know there's even, if I know there's technical parts, I'll still try to like chance that where I like shoes without any kind of like grip or anything like that.
00:49:36
John
And then just, you know, have the payoff later that, and you know, I'm on the towpath and I can just, you know, kind of go into autopilot then.
00:49:41
UKRunChat
Yeah. What's your favourite trail show out of interest?
00:49:44
John
Oh, wow.
00:49:45
UKRunChat
um I know you said you had a car trunk full of them, so
00:49:48
John
Yeah.
00:49:48
UKRunChat
and
00:49:48
John
So I review shoes. It's hard to say a favorite, but, so my favorite shoe that i reviewed this year was the, ah the craft explore pro. Amazing. I wore it. I actually wore it going back to what we were just so talking about not too long ago. I wore it on the four state challenge.
00:50:04
John
um And i think I'm going to wear it at JFK just because again, it gives you enough grip for like technical stuff. But then like, if you're doing like, ah if you're on road at all, or like some like towpath or anything like that, it still feels good also. So it's it's super versatile.
00:50:18
John
It's kind of like, wearing three shoes at one time, if that makes any sense. Yeah, it's just like, and that's the funny thing about trail shoes, I think, is that they're so, to me, they're so specific. Like, you might have a shoe that's just really good for technical stuff, for, like, light stuff.
00:50:34
John
It's hard to find it one that's really versatile, but, like, ah yeah, the Explorer Pro is, it's like a transformer for me. I can just use it anything, so I'm going to use that JFK, but um it's weird. Like, I don't have,
00:50:46
John
favorite favorites like I don't have like all-time favorites anymore I mean there's some that I really really like from back in the day like the um the Hoka Evo Speedgoat that's gone I mean so I have some like ones from like my past that are like but the way I am now I mean I don't mean to like be crude or anything but I'm kind of just like you know um I have no allegiances to choose yeah if it's just um if it's something that works that's awesome I'm like cool but like I'm I'm not loyal
00:51:06
UKRunChat
yeah
00:51:14
UKRunChat
yeah um but And I think, to be honest, it's better for us not to stay in the same shoe all the time, isn't it? It's good to mix
Gear Talk: Choosing the Right Shoes
00:51:21
UKRunChat
things up a little bit.
00:51:22
John
I'm all for monogamy monogamy in real life, but for shoes, you know, I'm sorry. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta, the trail, all the trails are different. You need, you know, do what works for you.
00:51:29
UKRunChat
yeah
00:51:30
John
um Amazing.
00:51:31
UKRunChat
Yeah, although that that very versatile one sounds like a dream, actually. It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for
00:51:35
John
It's not even that, I think it's 170. It's not even that expensive. I mean, in terms of like, I mean, there's like $200 like road training shoes now. So like for 170, for like a shoe that does all that it does, I mean, it blew me away.
00:51:46
John
Like I, I never have given, i don't think I've ever given a per, I'm pretty sure I've never given a perfect score, believe in the run where I do reviews, but this shit was so good. Like, I just, I loved on the four state challenge. immediately was like, I'm going use this at JFK because it can work in multiple situations.
00:52:01
UKRunChat
Yeah, it sounds good. and So if you could bring one thing from the UK to the US running scene. what would you like to add in, do you think?
00:52:10
John
Well, so this is, this is tough.
00:52:11
UKRunChat
What
00:52:13
John
I won't, I want to bring myself to the UK and do a race and then bring it back here.
00:52:17
UKRunChat
would you think?
00:52:18
John
Like I I've never done a race outside of the United States. Um, I've got, I'm circling many, but again, because of the car, that's the thing that's so, I mean, like, I,
00:52:25
UKRunChat
What are you looking at?
00:52:29
John
the one that really stands out is that one that's underground. Have you seen that one?
00:52:34
UKRunChat
Oh, the underground one. no
00:52:36
John
Yeah. I forget.
00:52:37
UKRunChat
tell me its name I might remember is it sort a tunnel actually isn't there where you just kind of run through it in tunnel
00:52:39
John
I forget the name. It's probably something big like simple, like the tunnel or something like that. But like, yeah, it's probably something like that. But, um,
00:52:48
John
i So I've had some friends that have went there to do that race. And like, it's just weird because you lose like when you're down there that long, you lose like sensory stuff and it gets like really weird.
00:52:57
UKRunChat
wow
00:52:59
John
So like, I would like to do something like that. Of course, like, you know like the London Marathon, I would, yeah, I would die to do that. i mean, like, I just, I just want to like see how runners like, you know do stuff in a different country and try to bring the experience back here. Cause I think that's what all about.
00:53:14
John
And maybe that would help. Like if people were able to do that more, you know, you take good things back from another country and and apply it to here. I think that we're so closed minded here in the States. So when it comes in terms of our running, we do things a certain way. I think that it would benefit everybody just to get out and see the world and, you know, take good things back and bring it here. That's what I would like to do. Like, that's, that's why I like doing podcasts, you know, you know, with different people in different countries, just so I can like use this to talk about stuff on the trail with others and just, you know be a better person, you know, not be,
00:53:45
John
you know If I'm going to do a jerky thing, I can like stop and think, wait minute, John, stop and think about that. you know't
00:53:51
UKRunChat
Well, what kind of distance race would you be looking for? Because maybe we can ask our listeners for some ideas for you. and We can get them to comment with race ideas.
00:53:58
John
So there there's a race series. i just i As we were talking, i I kind of remember it. So have you heard it I think it's Cockbane Events. Have you heard of those?
00:54:07
UKRunChat
Right.
00:54:08
John
Yeah, like he does some brutal races.
00:54:08
UKRunChat
No. No.
00:54:11
John
um I'd like to do that. And then there's one of his events. like um I think he might actually be the one that puts on the tunnel. I might be wrong about that. But he puts on some really brutal events that I'd like to do. But ah even outside of altars and stuff like that, wait, I'd like to do the spine.
00:54:28
John
i would love to do that.
00:54:29
UKRunChat
will
00:54:30
UKRunChat
yeah
00:54:30
John
Yeah, the spine.
00:54:31
John
I would love to do that. um
00:54:33
UKRunChat
the winter The winter version, obviously.
00:54:35
John
yeah i So I have a friend that did that. And he always talks about I'm just like, man, I wish I could afford to do that race. But um yeah, I'd love to do that one. ultras or like, again, like the marathon, any, like any kind of cool race, even if like a 10 mile or anything like that, like, you know, I'm, I like doing all different distances. And again, I just want to like be in a situation where like, i would just love to talk to somebody on a race. Like, that you know, you like if they hear my accent, they're like, where are you from? And we can like, you just straight right from there. I just feel like, you it would just be a cool experience just to like talk to a runner for like, you know, that living somewhere different and like it's everybody's experience, like, like within, like on the race and stuff like that. Cause
00:55:13
John
like the stuff i've so I've seen in my races are completely different than their experience. So just a different joke. And yeah, that's the, so I'm, I joke a lot and I like to do impressions and stuff like that. Just like to kind of joke around with somebody like, you know in a different country, like hearing their humor versus mine.
00:55:26
John
And cause like, I love watching comedy, like, you know, from like, you know other countries and stuff like that too. But just like actually hearing it like on a race. Cause that's the, to me, that's like open mic night when you're on a race with somebody, especially on an ultra, like when it's slower pace, that's when you can just like test some stuff out and really like make people laugh.
00:55:42
UKRunChat
wow
00:55:42
John
But, uh, Yeah, probably that would be my favorite experience if I could do an ultra in the UK and just like pair up with somebody and just to ah tell jokes because like I think the different perspectives would be kind of funny.
00:55:53
UKRunChat
Yeah, it would be actually. So yeah, if you're listening and you've got some ideas for John of an ultra that he can do in the UK, do let us know. and We'd love to hear your suggestion.
00:56:02
John
I like messed up stuff. Let me know.
00:56:06
UKRunChat
To be fair, I mean we are kind of getting... There is more influence coming in from the US s now. So we are doing more sort you see more backyard ultras, things like that coming into the UK now.
00:56:13
John
oh i oh and so there There is one thing, and I'll probably get flack for saying this, but like um I can't remember the name of it, but it might be Outlawed now.
00:56:16
UKRunChat
So we do have lot more. this The ultra scene is growing a lot in the UK. Oh, vaguely. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what to say.
00:56:29
John
Remember that cheese wheel thing?
00:56:31
UKRunChat
oh vaguely
00:56:32
John
when the and that When the cheese wheel rolls down that giant mountain?
00:56:35
UKRunChat
yeah
Humor and Gratitude in Running
00:56:36
John
That looked amazing, but I would...
00:56:36
UKRunChat
and
00:56:38
John
Yeah, that would that looked incredible, but i would probably get like like life altering CTE e trying to chase that cheese wheel. That would probably be, that would probably be it after that. ah But I would do, I would, it's, I'm actually lucky that that's not here because I probably would have done it like five times and be a wreck by now.
00:56:54
UKRunChat
okay Yeah, sure we have some fun stuff over here for you to try. So yeah, maybe you'll have to keep us posted if that happens and let us know. ah Yeah, thank you. It's been it's been a joy chatting to you, John, today.
00:57:05
UKRunChat
i think I've learned a lot. And we've hope we've had a giggle, haven't we?
00:57:08
John
We have, we have, thank you so much for having me. I, I, Yeah, this is like it was this is like a therapy session, like a travel planning session. It was a lot of cool stuff wrapped in the wind. I appreciate it Thank you for the experience.
00:57:18
UKRunChat
Yeah, you're very welcome. Where can people find you on social media they want to follow your running journey?
00:57:23
John
So Breezy Trailhead on Instagram. That's where I primarily am at. i don't Facebook's getting kind of weird. i don't but I don't like to mess with that too much. TikTok, I'm kind of on sometimes. It's been a minute since I've posted anything on there. But yeah, Breezy Trailhead.
00:57:37
John
um I do a lot of race reports. I do a lot of shoe reviews. I'll post it all right there. So just tell me
Conclusion and Farewell
00:57:42
John
about races. Tell me about races in the UK that you want me to do, and I'll try to i'll try get the funds. but
00:57:47
UKRunChat
um we look Yeah, keep us posted with how you get on. We'll look forward to hearing how you get on with your races in the US this year as well. and So we hope you've enjoyed this episode. Thank you very much for listening.
00:57:56
John
so
00:57:57
UKRunChat
And wherever if you're running this week, enjoy it. Stay safe and I'll see you next time.
00:58:03
John
Bye.