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Supergirl (2026)
17 Plays7 days ago
The Girl of Steel takes center stage as Casual Nerdity dives into Supergirl!
Inspired by the acclaimed Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow miniseries, the latest chapter of the DC Universe brings Kara Zor-El to the big screen in a story filled with action, heart, and hope. We discuss the performances, the film's themes, and what it means for the future of the DCU.
Our conversation begins with a spoiler-free review before we move into a full spoiler discussion, so whether you've already seen the film or are still deciding, there's something here for you.
00:00 Introduction
05:50 Non-spoiler discussion begins
27:22 Spoiler discussion begins
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Transcript
Introduction to Casual Nerdity
00:00:10
Speaker
Casual Nerdity is podcast celebrating and discussing pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Ari missed to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
00:00:22
Speaker
All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
Meet the Hosts and Guests
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome back to Casual Nerdity, everybody. I hope you are all doing well. I'm Daryl, and with me as usual, I have Nick. Hi, Nick. Hi, Daryl.
00:00:41
Speaker
And we have frequent guest collaborate. We really just need to make you a regular co-host Betsy. Well, we have Betsy back. Hello. Hey, when we start What Joss Happened, I will be a regular.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yes, this this is true. This is true. and And if Brev has his way and we we start the sub-series of We've Got Issues. Yes. We just need to like find time for that.
00:01:05
Speaker
Yes. Because I like that idea.
Balancing Work and Personal Life
00:01:08
Speaker
i even, you know, you know how we have a a separate little thumbnail for the Clone Watch sub-series episodes? i came up i came up with one for We Got Issues.
00:01:21
Speaker
Amazing. Time is relative, so you guys could carve out some time. yeah You say that like that's an easy thing to do, but there's this thing called life.
00:01:34
Speaker
tell that yeah was you know Tell that to our employers, the ones who youll pay our our paychecks. he let say I have yet to find that thing called a life. When I find it, I'll let you know.
Humorous Celebrity Encounters
00:01:48
Speaker
Well, I mean, our life basically consists of you have to do the work thing for eight-ish hours. i mean, for me, it usually ends up being closer to nine hours, I'll be honest.
00:01:59
Speaker
Plus, yeah you know, and all the other outside commitments, of which there are many. Yep. Many, many. Way too many. had to spend yesterday car shopping.
00:02:10
Speaker
I never want to do that again. i have a car, but I never want to do that again. Car shopping. Oh, you you'll have to tell us about the new wheels after we get off off hair. The the the new Betsy mobile.
00:02:21
Speaker
It means I have to give the nice car back to the rich people I used to babysit for. Oh, have you picked that a name for your car yet? I don't know. I've had it for like less than 24
00:02:34
Speaker
So I should have pulled I wish I'd pulled the audio for this before we get into this topic. I know that both of you will appreciate this. I saw a clip last night from Kat Dennings on a talk show.
00:02:48
Speaker
e And she talked about how she went with her husband and her
Supergirl Film Discussion
00:02:52
Speaker
stepkids and took them to Disney. And they they started walking through Avengers Campus at Disneyland.
00:03:00
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And all these people start waving and smiling at her. And she's like, ah, you know these people are just so friendly. they're They're having the best day of their lives because they're at Disney. And her husband was like, uh, babe?
00:03:14
Speaker
And she she looked down. She was wearing a flannel shirt. you She was wearing glasses. And she was wearing, like, a beanie hat. She's like, what?
00:03:25
Speaker
I forgot I was in these movies. yeah i'm I'm dressed like Darcy. People think that I'm one of the Disney employees, one of the character actors. Hey, that's illegal.
00:03:38
Speaker
Oh no, she's breaking he's break he's breaking this is dis the bond. It makes me think of like when people remind Anna Kendrick that she was in the Twilight movies. but Oh yes, she was in those. Exactly, she was in the Twilight movies. And she forgets that she was in the Twilight movies.
00:03:58
Speaker
I mean, if you were in the Twilight movies, wouldn't you want to forget you were in the Twilight movies? don't it sounds like the cast had a good time being trapped in those movies together. i mean, yeah. But also I imagine they had to be doing some of them.
00:04:11
Speaker
They all make fun of them. Yeah, i but also I have to imagine they were also doing, like, they were young, they were on in Hollywood, and yeah They had to be doing all kinds of drugs. They were all forgetting what they were doing.
00:04:24
Speaker
i think most of them were just laughing about how they were forcing Kristen Stewart to pretend to be straight.
00:04:31
Speaker
It didn't work. He could act. oh ah Whoa. Hey, they had her back on that. They didn't make her like kiss Robert Pattinson at the VMAs. They had her back.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah. And I salute them for that. But let's say we dive into our topic for this episode, shall we?
00:04:53
Speaker
ah yeah. So the Girl of Steel has arrived. And this time on Casual Nerdy, we're taking a look at Supergirl.
00:05:05
Speaker
Okay, this does not look like this is going end well. For you guys. Yeah, so whether the you guys means us or the people that have to listen to us yammer on and on about Supergirl, but... Inspired by the acclaimed Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow comics miniseries, we're going to share our thoughts on the film, the performances, the action, and how Kara's latest adventure ties into the new DC universe.
00:05:33
Speaker
We'll start spoiler free before giving you plenty of warning before we dive into the details. So look to the skies and join us as we talk all things Supergirl here on Casual Nerdity.
00:05:47
Speaker
So we're going to go ahead. We're going to dive straight into non-spoiler talk. You managed to get most of it on the paper this time. Good job, buddy. I loved that moment from the first time I saw it in the trailer. And the fact that it's the first line of the movie.
00:06:11
Speaker
Also, as someone who has dogs, it's relatable. Yes. As someone who's who's been around dogs, yes, relatable. It also just,
Adaptation Challenges in Film
00:06:20
Speaker
it is a great tone setter.
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, ah very much so. so ah without going into spoilers yet and just big overview here for me, um I think that the beats that were changed in adapting the story from an eight issue comic to a two hour movie pretty much made sense.
00:06:45
Speaker
ah The, the gist of the journey is there, but understandably it can't go as in depth into the exploration of the characters and some of the events that they go through. Now,
00:06:57
Speaker
I wanted to get that out of the way from the beginning because I don't plan to spend the entire episode just saying, well, the comic did this, but the movie did that. You mean you're not going to talk about how the movie was missing all of Ruthie's narration?
00:07:12
Speaker
I'm not going to talk about it much. It's going to come up in spoiler in spoiler talk because there's a particular point that That pretty much calls for one of the changes. And I've got some notes on that.
00:07:29
Speaker
ah but I would say that this is a good point of acknowledging idea that this is an habit adaptation. and even more, it was inspired. It's not even called an adaptation. of woman of tomorrow it is a inspired by with heavy beats taken from but it's not meant to be a one-to-one like even translation from comic to to screen well well my very next note is just saying that I think it's worth mentioning that it did exactly what an adaptation is supposed to do. It kept the spirit of the story along with some of the major elements while playing into the strengths of the medium that the story is being adapted to.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that. like Before this like recording this, I went back and also like rewrite all of The Woman of Tomorrow. and I really don't think there was a better way that they could have condensed things down as far as like what was necessary and what was ultimately superfluous.
00:08:30
Speaker
Especially for its place as the second feature film installment of of the new DCU. Yeah, because the the two stories are doing two different things.
00:08:45
Speaker
they're They're doing two different things, and the way that they go about them, and just general structure. Because when you have an eight-issue comics miniseries, you have eight separate installments. And so you can structure that. That's more of, if we want to draw a media comparison, that's an HBO Max miniseries.
00:09:07
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Or like a typical BBC series. Yeah. Right. And even then, that would be condensed into likely, instead of eight episodes, likely into six.
00:09:18
Speaker
but No, I mean, 8 to 10 is about what HBO Max does in general for their seasons. So they could do and an episode per issue.
00:09:31
Speaker
I wouldn't want to see that. Yeah. Because that story from that comic doesn't fit in this movie universe.
00:09:43
Speaker
Also, we don't need a direct adaptation because like we we have the comics. If we were just going to do a one-for-one adaptation, why bother? I mean, there's something to be said for some direct adaptations. The Sin City movies are a lot of fun. That's true.
00:10:01
Speaker
Even then, mediums allow you to do different things, and I think there's something to be said for, you know, as much as I'm the kind of person that will, in fact, sit there and go, that was wrong, that was wrong, that was wrong, that was wrong. At the end of the day, if like a movie or any sort of adaptation does the exact same thing the source material did, then there was no point in making an adaptation in the first place.
00:10:22
Speaker
And enter even times where you there are even times where you do a full-on one-to-one adaptation and you still somehow manage to deliver a story that is saying something 180 degrees opposite the source material.
00:10:41
Speaker
he Either intention or not. I don't know if you're good. I don't know if you ever watch men make adaptations, but you might get an idea of what I'm talking about. Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker
You see what I did there? what i did there i see what you did there.
00:11:03
Speaker
But no i overall, I really enjoyed the movie. We'll get the the top level thing out of the way. Now, as we especially as we get into the spoiler side of things, there already has been some disingenuous bad faith internet discourse about this movie.
Supergirl's Character Development
00:11:24
Speaker
and Oh no, I don't have my wall of Funko Pops or a pickup truck to sit in with my sunglasses on.
00:11:30
Speaker
Well, and I know that our friends at the Movie Defenders, the part of the angle that they are taking, you their episode on this movie is coming out the same week as ours. Their episode dropped, as our episode drops, it's going to be Wednesday. Theirs dropped on Monday for Supergirl. Ooh, okay.
00:11:53
Speaker
And I know they... they were taking the approach. They, they were kind of going back to the roots of the show because the internet discourse there, there is a segment of the audience and that's all we'll say that, that is already trying to kind of spin a negative narrative about this movie.
00:12:21
Speaker
And, the movie defenders were going to be taking an approach, going back to the original, uh, the original spirit of their show. And they're going to be dealing with that head on in their discussion. So I am looking forward to the team guys.
00:12:40
Speaker
I am looking forward to listening to their episode about it. we As we go along, I'm sure we will probably start to mention some of those bad faith discourse elements as we're talking about those elements of the movie and what we did and didn't appreciate about it. But one of the things that I've noticed, and I saw somebody mention this online earlier today myself, And I kind of agree with this in that they were saying that um we've reached a point where
00:13:17
Speaker
every movie that comes out hess is either a masterpiece or a piece of garbage in bad faith people's eyes. And if it is a piece of garbage, the reasons it's a piece of garbage are because, you know, you had a female character or a character of color or a queer character.
00:13:37
Speaker
um See Sarah Zed's video essay on sacrificial trash. even Even beyond that that, there is still like... those that are on more of a medium fence, fence aren't prone to leaning into believing those things because due to the nature of quote unquote blockbuster Hollywood films, it's either smash success or a failure. And they will ascribe failure to those that seem to have like quote unquote abilities to like articulate why, which is often disingenuous. Yeah.
00:14:14
Speaker
But now we live in a day and age where anything that's a failure has to have a level of like morality attached to it.
00:14:22
Speaker
Unfortunately. It has to have a level of morality. can't just good bad. It has to have a level of morality and it has to be someone's fault. And it has to have a place in the quote unquote culture war, whatever that means.
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, i like I said, I'm sure that we will discuss some elements of this. It's not going to be the focus of what we're talking about. also not really are our bag.
00:14:49
Speaker
part of Yeah, I was going to say, they're taking one for the team for us on this one because that's going to be a whole thing. We prefer to be not to sound not the sound centrist or enlightened, but we we do try to take the good and the bad, but in terms of like there is a lot of discourse around the film so we have to acknowledge it also as a certified tumblerina i've done my time in the trenches
00:15:19
Speaker
if you know you know i know but um i will say one thing i liked about this though is that you know in a sea of depressed alcoholic dads adopting depressed orphan daughters we did get Depressed alcoholic big sister supports depressed orphan little sister.
00:15:37
Speaker
You know, it's something different. It's like prose. It doesn't rhyme. I don't know. I thought I had an idea there. I mean, so it it was you don't wasnt me what use it wasn't Pedro Pascal adopting another child.
00:15:53
Speaker
So you don't want me to use... Again, it's like poetry. sort if they rhndme It's the one time it doesn't work. yeah Oh no, if George Lucas was in his grave, he'd be spinning now.
00:16:07
Speaker
That'd be a good trick. So we've heard. Yes. Now, speaking of our our depressed, alcoholic big sister, though, I think that Millie Alcock was great. 100%. We haven't really had... She is the second best Supergirl adaptation we've had in the past couple years i say second yes because we you you can't beat my adventures with super girls cara that's that's so fun melissa benoist would like to enter the chat please i was gonna say
00:16:48
Speaker
but you know i i made i made my statement But we we haven't really had many live action interpretations of Supergirl. And the direction that they're going for the DCU movie franchise gives her a lot to work with.
00:17:06
Speaker
Because Melissa Benoist was awesome. Melissa Benoist basically started out as Superman, but it's Supergirl. Yeah, that that was the biggest complaint I've ever ever've ever heard. but like this is like This is just gender flip Clark.
00:17:24
Speaker
But we ah we mentioned this the other day that Kara doesn't really have much of a rogues gallery when we were talking. um And most of the rogues gallery that she has are some kind of flips on Superman's rogues gallery.
00:17:42
Speaker
Or just straight up transplants. Yeah. Or she's just literally there helping him with his own rogues gallery. Yeah. yeah And just like I don't want to make this a comparison between the comic and the movie, it's also not a comparison between Supergirl actors. This isn't a Millie Alcock versus Melissa Benoist versus Laura Van Der Voort versus Helen Slater. Mm-hmm.
00:18:07
Speaker
You know. That's not what we're here to do. Yeah, we are not here to do that. And... Also, that's a boring discussion. Yeah.
00:18:18
Speaker
and that would be that yeah yeah That would be pretty boring. Yeah, but Millie is making this character her own because there the closest I can think of to this version of the character from the comics isn't even really the Woman of Tomorrow version. Because, yeah, she started off...
00:18:41
Speaker
you know, the miniseries on a red sun planet to get drunk for her birthday. But that's kind of where the parallels end. The closest I can see from the comics is from Peter David's run when it wasn't even Kara.
00:18:59
Speaker
Yeah. When it was Linda Danvers and she was a damaged person. That was bonded with that version of Supergirl. Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too.
00:19:12
Speaker
And again, I know this may be controversial, but I got a little bit from her, like from the from the new 52 run, where she was sort of doing some, especially when she was encountering like the the Red Lantern stuff.
00:19:26
Speaker
Oh I keep trying to forget that the new 52 existed. Yes, we know, Daryl, we know. But as like i' I agree, really. agree.
00:19:38
Speaker
Honestly, this is one of the few times that I'd actually be like, yeah, I was actually, oh, that they they took something positive from from the New 52. It's like five things.
00:19:50
Speaker
Miracles do exist. So I was like, yeah, was getting that. I had just totally shoved that out of my mind. Most of us do it when it comes to the New 52, let's be real.
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, but's like but there were some moments that did stand out. was like, oh, they took someone like that that characterization of like her her repressed anger. and I think even like the scream moment was, I forget if that's in Woman of Tomorrow. but No, it is in Woman of Tomorrow. It is, but it but she flies into a sun and does it rather than space. It was omazed in her when she was a Red Lantern in a New 52.
00:20:31
Speaker
I was like, that was cool.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, which I'm also like, she an attention to detail and a willingness take from like a variety of different runs.
00:20:42
Speaker
And that's something that, granted, we're only a few projects into the new DCU, but they're definitely doing that. They're pulling from different places. you know like you In Superman, you had a classic Superman, and you had one part of the Giffen de Mateus Justice League, but then you also brought in Justice Society a little bit with Mr. Terrific. And you brought in Super Friends with the Hall of Justice. so yeah There's so many fun things. that like It's definitely they're not afraid to like bring in different influences into this universe.
00:21:18
Speaker
And that helped make, again, like, make Millie Alcock's Supergirl not an adaptation of one Super girl it's like an amalgam for this specific universe right like the sense i get is they're doing their homework but they're not like shackling themselves just one certain interpretation they're willing to like pull from a whole bunch of different runs and different interpretations to make like the story that they want to tell instead of just completely staying married to one specific version which I think is nice to see, because again, that's kind of what I was saying about adaptations, where if you're just doing beat for beat the exact same thing, what's the point? It's boring. It's already been done. This gives them an opportunity to do something different while still staying true to the source material.
00:22:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and I think that she is definitely more than up to the task of delivering a character to us who's consumed by grief, but also capable of really great heroism.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yes, I have lot of things to say about this later. Again, I can see this character evolving. Like, this character could just be your classic Supergirl, or or they could encounter a red lantern ring, and that'd be an interesting movie as well. There's a future here of a character that's very unique, drawing upon these different iterations and making them their own.
00:22:46
Speaker
Interestingly, this movie had two characters who've been given red lantern rings. Mm-hmm.
00:22:54
Speaker
It sure did! ah Now, I also just i wanted to mention that this might this might border onto spoiler territory, but I don't think so.
00:23:07
Speaker
I don't think it really falls into spoiler territory to say that Superman was in the movie more than I expected. is this true? Honestly, despite not being in the trailer,
00:23:22
Speaker
ah I expected David Cornswit to be here, but I didn't expect it to be as much. But I also think it was, I didn't feel like it was aggressive. or or He was used appropriately.
00:23:39
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I know I'm jumping a little bit here, but, you know, just without getting to spoilers, I want to say that they did a good job of having him present and in that way, like, demonstrably grounding this movie in the new DCU and showing that, you know, it's all part of a connected thing. but at the same time ensuring that his presence was minimal enough to ensure that, you know, like this is Kara's movie. This is about her and his presence just incidental to telling her story because they're cousins.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it, it made sure that it was her movie. And I just want to repeat some of what we said a year ago that Dave and Cora and sweat as Superman is great.
00:24:23
Speaker
Oh, he's he's c incredible. Because Superman is clearly concerned for his cousin's well-being, but there's also kind of an undercurrent of wanting her around for his own self, too. But also not respect for her to be like her own person, but also he does want... both want the same thing.
00:24:50
Speaker
they both want the same thing They both want a connection. too I have stuff to say about this later, so but it's spoilers, so I will hold off. but He wants that piece of family, or maybe that tie to Krypton, even in the face of what he learned in his own movie.
00:25:11
Speaker
was two michigan um we'll We'll talk about it in spoilers. yeah We'll talk about that in spoilers. We'll get there when we get there. Yep. Because ah people have been talking about it online. I still think that that topic probably justifies falling behind the spoiler wall.
00:25:30
Speaker
There's a specific thing I want to talk about, too, that is, in fact, spoilers spoilers. And one last thing that I wanted to say non-spoilery is that Jason Momoa as Lobo is a blast. Yes, yes, yes. You could tell he was having the time of his life with the role too. Yeah, well, I mean, he's so much better suited for it than to Aquaman. I mean, did you hear the story about what ah what he did when it was announced that Gon and Saffron were taking over? that He texted...
00:26:04
Speaker
He texted Gunn and just said, fucking Lobo. Yeah. He knew what he was about. And he was right. Because he's a million And to his credit, Gunn replied with, let's talk.
00:26:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:23
Speaker
So, I mean, it was, it that is a a perfect piece of casting. And I am also fairly certain that Lobo will return.
00:26:35
Speaker
in Avengers Doomsday.
00:26:41
Speaker
I mean, why not? Hey, I'd watch Let's bring him in. I'd watch it.
00:26:48
Speaker
You know what I really... Let's see a live-action rematch of Lobo and Wolverine from vs. Marvel. Exactly!
00:26:59
Speaker
And yeah you can't hide it behind a bar this time. Yes! Yeah!
00:27:05
Speaker
So you understand what I'm talking about. Yes. Let's do it.
00:27:14
Speaker
Speaking of let's do it. Are we ready to go into spoiler territory? Yes. I think so. let's go Let's go to spoiler territory. he sees the good in everyone. And I see the truth.
00:27:28
Speaker
Or. Spoilers.
00:27:32
Speaker
Both are applicable. Yes. So, spoilers. I don't this counts as spoilers, but I just need to yell about how Crypto is a very good baby. yes yes, he is. He's such a good baby. But we got to see him as a puppy.
00:27:48
Speaker
yes We got to see their first meeting and it was really adorable. Even though, you know, the context was that it was her mom's funeral. but But, you know, it's fine.
00:28:00
Speaker
Well, you know, it's a little it's a tiny little bit of life coming in a moment of death. Mm-hmm. Contrast. It's gothic, as it were, if anyone like had that section of English class where they talked about that.
00:28:13
Speaker
Again, it's like, they rhyme. Sometimes your mom has to die and you get a cute puppy.
00:28:22
Speaker
Well, that was dark. Is it not? It's equivalent the saints. Yeah. Now, I know i said that we weren't going to lay out, well, the comic did this and the movie did that.
00:28:38
Speaker
But it kind of needs mentioning that one of the biggest changes in the translation is Krem of the Yellow Hills.
00:28:49
Speaker
Because in the book, he's pretty much just a psychopathic bastard. Mm-hmm. And he's he's just kind of, he's less of a character than he is a goal for Supergirl and Ruthie to reach.
00:29:07
Speaker
He's less of an antagonist and more of an end point, if you will. and He is an object that represents their end goal rather than an antagonist and character in and of himself.
00:29:22
Speaker
And he more stands in to like make a like tangible representation for what is ultimately the character growth of Ruthie and Kara. Right. And needing to condense the story required conveying his depravity in a much quicker way.
00:29:44
Speaker
Which they did. More overt and making sure that that he is the antagonist. Right. And and they to make him the antagonist They also had to beef him up to be a personal challenge for Supergirl.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, I will say I have some mixed feelings on the way that they basically use sex trafficking as a shortcut to show that depravity of his character.
00:30:13
Speaker
However, I will say I was living for the moment when like immediately after getting free, the first thing that those girls did was steal a tank and blow up their sex traffickers like 13 out of 10. Excellent choice. Absolute cinema.
00:30:25
Speaker
I will agree as well that ah and like I have no problem with more of the sort of quote unquote adult or realistic themes that was going on here.
00:30:37
Speaker
I did feel that that was an interesting choice to make that the quote unquote main antagonist goal, but also not make that the major like conflict.
00:30:53
Speaker
Yeah. Like, for me, I guess it's, like, it's not that it was, like, something, like, overly mature or whatever. Like, you know, I think it's something that could be in more media, including kids' media, because it very much is a thing that exists and happens and that does affect kids. Like, you know, that I think there's something to be said for, like, awareness and understanding that, hey, this actually is a thing that exists in the world. And at the same time, I feel like maybe it could have been handled with, like, a little more nuance and understanding instead of just kind of again being like a shortcut to show like hey these guys are huge assholes that do some incredibly fucked up shit ah yeah that that that that's what that that that's my my opinion it's like it was just a quick shorthand to make sure oh you thought these guys were bad they are bad yeah they engage in sex trafficking with minors nothing but there was shes throwing that out there too
00:31:50
Speaker
But nothing was really said about like what this is, what what it means, or in the greatest sense. It was just a here's why the bad guy is bad.
00:32:03
Speaker
Well, then I think it's also that like the girls that were being trafficked like weren't characters. They were just kind of, again, like stand-ins. Kind of like Crumb himself was a stand-in in the comics. They were just you know an object used to show, hey, these guys are bad.
00:32:19
Speaker
Now, I did see someone, don't remember who was yesterday or today, who was saying that they preferred Krem in the comic because they liked the fact that Krem wasn't the leader of the bad guys. He worked, he originally worked for the king and that's why he killed Ruthie's father. And he liked the idea of having that petty tyrant who's above him, who just, you know sends people out to go, Hey, make sure people aren't talking crap about me. And if they are, kill them.
00:32:53
Speaker
And then kill them anyway when they do defend me, apparently. But there's, what what I responded to that with was, well, again, we're condensing everything down. We need to make a more direct line between Krem and Ruthie, why that happened and not have someone at the end of this story who, Oh, his boss is still out there.
00:33:26
Speaker
We've defeated Krem, but his boss is still out there. Because it's the same kind of thing that i I've talked about at length with people over the years with The Last Jedi. There were people who, when Snoke was killed, like, well, you you just killed the big villain. i was like, well, no, he's not the big villain.
00:33:48
Speaker
He was never the big bad. What movie were you watching? The first two movies were leading us on a trajectory that the final climax was going to be Rey versus Kylo Ren.
00:34:01
Speaker
And if you resolve that climax, but his boss still exists, that's the climax is now anticlimactic. It also makes me want to yell at those people like, hey, did you watch the original trilogy? Who was the villain? Because it wasn't Palpatine. It was Vader.
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah. Palpatine just shows up at the end.
00:34:21
Speaker
And so but yes so I understand why that's not there. And I think make making Krem the architect of all of the bad things, as opposed to just being someone who works for one bad guy and then moves on to work with another group of bad guys,
00:34:46
Speaker
serves again serves this medium better or than that direct translation yeah like it helps just streamline the narrative i think yeah to do very much so to bring in a note from our from frequent collaborator lauren ah they bring up the fact that supergirl spends a lot of this movie depowered both to keep up tencent and Given that her abilities, she would overcome pretty much any threat effortlessly.
00:35:17
Speaker
And perhaps as symbolism to her initial rejection to heroism at the start of the movie. Which is something me and them discuss when we watch them right after the movie.
00:35:29
Speaker
I didn't see it as a problem. Again, I don't think they were saying it as a problem, but it's an observation. that Yes, Supergirl during the second half of the film is the power multiple times.
00:35:42
Speaker
But... Well, not even just the second half. through but She starts off depowered. e It's kind of a... It's meant to be sort of a contrast. The fact that she could... She regularly goes to these red sun worlds to experience depoweredness and inebriation and other things.
00:36:04
Speaker
But when she needs her powers, she is also depowered because she's still rejecting... Sort of the call of heroism? She's refusing the call, as it were?
00:36:18
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I i i also, yeah again, we're not litigating the the online discourse, but I saw someone note that this movie has all 12 steps of Campbell's hero's journey.
00:36:36
Speaker
It does. it it really does. It's like textbook case. Yes. It's like a textbook case. And they they weren't saying it as a negative thing. They were like, what you're not paying... you You bad faith people are not... Well, you are arguing in bad faith. This is a textbook example of the hero's journey, but you're complaining that she's not acting like Supergirl from the beginning when that's the frickin' point.
00:37:12
Speaker
If she were acting like Supergirl from the beginning, she would have nowhere to go. and There would be no movie. There would be nowhere to go because there's no growth that needs to happen. She's already there. my My one thing that is like, again I've encountered some bad faith arguments and people have said that, is this movie a surf Dracula situation? This is the newest term.
00:37:33
Speaker
It's like modern stories will be like, be called Surf Dracula, but Dracula will not pick up a surfboard until the end of end of this of the series, and it'll just be for a few seconds.
00:37:49
Speaker
I do not think that this is a Surf Dracula situation. She is Supergirl. She's just becoming a hero on top of it. Yeah, I mean, one one of the things, it's a small thing, and I'm sure a lot of people didn't notice it, but Going back to the clip that we used to indicate non-spoiler talk, did did you look closely at that newspaper that Crypto peed on? Yes! So, there is a huge banner headline about Superman averting a nuclear disaster.
00:38:28
Speaker
The article and the pictures and the headline cover all six columns of the paper. Supergirl has a two column story about rescuing cats from a sewer.
00:38:42
Speaker
Yep. She has her own little like tiny column off on the side. And she does not look pleased about it. Because that's all she gets, apparently.
00:38:54
Speaker
Yeah. And is that she probably wasn't also there helping with the nuclear disaster. Well, and you at least at least she's above the fold. But yeah, probably for the first time.
00:39:07
Speaker
Well, you have to wonder how much did Clark push to get that story above the fold? Oh, he probably did. He probably mandated it was like, nah, we're going to put this right here.
00:39:19
Speaker
Yeah. So, know, we see that we we get a a clue from context there that he's been trying to help her integrate into Earth and to be a hero and might even be lobbying softballs like this her way. Go go save these kittens. It'll play really well and people will like you because it's kittens.
00:39:48
Speaker
Honestly, i like I suspect that he interviewed her. Probably. i I don't know that it showed the byline. That or he had Lois do it as a personal favor.
00:39:59
Speaker
Yeah. But like gave her cute, like no cards with all the questions she was allowed to ask. He told her like, don't don't don't don't be you. don Don't be nice. so to i Don't interview her like you interviewed me.
00:40:13
Speaker
Don't be a real reporter. thing carra Like, don't be you, be me. yeah He's trying to make her kind of be like him and that's not working because that's not who she is. She's her own person. Right.
00:40:25
Speaker
So you she does have that that journey to make. you she He's given her the costume. He's given her the name. He's trying to put her in the mold of a superhero like him and she doesn't, she starts off the movie, I'm like, well, you know, my my planet's dead, everybody I've known is dead, the only person I have left is my cousin here, so sh sure. My cousin whose shadow I'm more or less being forced to live in?
00:41:02
Speaker
And also, it didn't even, as they're basically, they are cousins, but they're but they couldn't be more alien to each other. is Given that we're talking about the cousins and we don't have it in the notes here, at least not that I've seen, is this a good time to go ahead and talk about that Jor-El and Lara shaped elephant in the room?
00:41:30
Speaker
Yeah, we might as well. So... There was a whole big controversy. People again exp exposing their lack or refusal of media literacy with the first Superman movie continued to cling to, well, the last half of that recording was a lie.
00:41:55
Speaker
lex Lex doctored it because Jor-El wouldn't want Kal-El to be a conqueror. we have a line that addresses it right here. I mean, in Superman, in Superman, Lex himself says, I didn't have to change anything.
00:42:14
Speaker
We had multiple lines expressing that he did not change anything. Yeah, and he tells his partner in crime. Who accuses him? Like, oh, changing, doctoring that footage was great. It's like, I didn't do anything. like, joke's on you. I didn't change shit.
00:42:35
Speaker
And so we have a line in this movie where Zor-El and Allura see Kal-El's ship take off shortly before Krypton explodes. And is that it? Well, yeah, that's Kal-El.
00:42:51
Speaker
Oh, that that sweet baby boy that your brother wants to be a conqueror. Mm-hmm.
00:43:00
Speaker
And so, no, Krypton isn't full of bloodthirsty conquerors, just Jor-El's an ass. And who said they even have to be bloodthirsty? Yeah. again like Conquering doesn't necessarily have to look like that. They were just expecting him to like you know show up on Earth like bigger and stronger and better than everyone else and and just become the de facto leader for that purpose. And right and again...
00:43:24
Speaker
on Yes, it sounds terrible to discuss in but it, but it also would make sense from someone who is pro from a weirdly scientific perspective. It's like, you'll be stronger. we better You can do the most good there and you can help recreate Krypton on this world.
00:43:44
Speaker
I mean, from their point of view, they're basically like dropping him in on a planet full like Neanderthals. Yeah. Right. yeah He's supposed to lead them into the shining future, just like, you know, what Krypton has achieved. These poor, primitive, backwater citizens. Again. Like, that that's not how that works. They are in their own way to go in. For a respective of conquest, he was expecting a benevolent dictatorship. Mm-hmm. Where they would just hand him the keys to the city and everything else because he's just so super special and awesome.
00:44:15
Speaker
Right. So... Because, again, for for God, it's, again... The characterization is Jor-El is a brilliant good scientist, and he wants the best for his child, and he's sending him to a world where he can do the most good, be safe, and also reconstruct Krypton.
00:44:36
Speaker
But this Jor-El is not a people person. No, he's he's he's he's he's more he's more scientist than people person. yeah and What he thinks is just sheer pragmatism and not like complete ignorance of how...
00:44:49
Speaker
any like civilization's work. would Would view this message an idea. and I definitely want to give credit for casting worldwide heartthrob Bradley Cooper as Jor-El for that purpose.
00:45:11
Speaker
yeah it yeah again it it Again, I feel that people misunderstand Jor-El's perspective, but they're also not incorrect that it does- it is not the right message to send, but it's also not the message he was intending to send. Like, we're not saying it's not fucked up, we're just also saying that from his perspective there was no malicious intent.
00:45:35
Speaker
Yeah. Doesn't make it right, but that is where he was coming from. Doesn't make it right. tech Doesn't make it right. And there is precedent. Again, we've we've talked about picking and choosing elements of, at this point, close to a century worth of comics.
00:45:57
Speaker
That there's precedent for a not entirely super benevolent Krypton. John Byrne's Man of Steel was very eugenics driven.
00:46:09
Speaker
was to a couple versions where we have not super benevolent Krypton and sometimes even not super benevolent Superman himself. Mentioned ah My Adventures with Superman has a similar sort of conquesting vibe.
00:46:23
Speaker
Yeah. But we're we're not we're not re-litigating Superman. We're talking Supergirl. I think it was cool that they like referenced that from the get-go. Like, yeah, no, this is a thing that happened. This is literally what this dude said verbatim.
00:46:36
Speaker
well And also, basically, that's not cowing to, ah again, individuals who have been very vocal, but clearly didn't watch the movie. They didn't.
00:46:48
Speaker
but Like, no, no, is this is it still this is still the same thing. And for a year now, people have been saying, you know, well, why ah why don't why didn't Supergirl tell him that, hey, you know, your your parents were, you know, wanting you to to take over the world?
00:47:11
Speaker
The parents that she never met? The parents that she never met and would have no reason to think that they were like that.
00:47:23
Speaker
Because that's not the parents that she had. That's not how they raised her. Again, it speaks to nature versus nurture. Just like the Kents raised Clark to not be that kind of guy. Her parents raised her to not be that kind of girl.
00:47:35
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, there's there's a refrain in the movie that as her mother was dying, she told her you know to be good. That was one of my favorite things. To be good. You don't have to be nice. You don't have to be weak. Just be good.
00:47:50
Speaker
Words to live by. By the way, Kara is a very nuanced character. Spoilers, Kara is a very nuanced character in that she is good, but she isn't blameless. She isn't Superman.
00:48:11
Speaker
And but by the way, i i i think that message that her mother gave her was both very Stephanie and Betsy coded. Yes, it was. It made me very happy.
00:48:22
Speaker
And I also think that ah the one of the characters in the trailer for Forgotten Island that we saw was very Betsy and Stephanie coded.
00:48:34
Speaker
Why are you calling me out like this? Oh, yeah we are on a call, so I guess we kind of have to call you. Still. Yeah, i was just like, hey.
00:48:47
Speaker
ah Since I was sitting next to you at the movie, Betsy, I wanted to point and go, i wanted to point go they they put you in a cartoon. oh you didn't even have to. It was you. I saw it. I saw it.
00:49:00
Speaker
yeah That's you. Right there. I've been called out once again.
00:49:10
Speaker
Oh, but no, the there was a a great deal of, you know we we did see that nature versus nurture in both of them. And we also saw how Clark, despite you know all of the good, you I don't want to discount all of the good that the Kents did in raising him.
00:49:32
Speaker
That was part of the point of that entire movie. Yeah. But Clark with, or let's say Kal-El, with parents who were like, conquer, take over the world, lead them.
00:49:48
Speaker
take their women Grew up to be so good and so selfless. And Kara, who grew up with positive parents and that message of be good because of everything else that she went through, was kind of a mess to have and had to overcome all of that to honor that.
00:50:13
Speaker
Oh yeah, I have a whole paragraph where I talk about that because you guys know how I feel about my bad survivors in media. No. I'm shocked.
00:50:24
Speaker
I am shocked. Just things I like getting to see We need our representation too. Now, getting into s slight nitpick territory here and following up on what Lauren said about Supergirl being depowered through so much of the movie.
00:50:42
Speaker
there There was one element of the story that I knew because it was so important to the comic that it was going to be here.
00:50:53
Speaker
It was going to be adapted in some way, shape, or form. But I knew it was going to be a direct adaptation. And that is the planet with the green sun.
00:51:05
Speaker
And...
00:51:08
Speaker
In the comic, given that it's dealing with a different continuity and a different presentation of Supergirl and Superman, its reasoning for existing the way it does makes perfect sense.
00:51:23
Speaker
And for those who haven't read the comic, it is, it's basically a trap, a prison for Superman. It has been constructed. It has all of these space dinosaurs on it.
00:51:39
Speaker
here And there's like this lake at the bottom, but you have to get through all the dinosaurs to get there, so they'll probably eat you anyway. And the green sun is engineered to give off kryptonite radiation. whereas It's special green sun.
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah, whereas in this one,
00:52:02
Speaker
I don't want to be one of those people that says, spell out everything in a movie for me. But maybe it was because I had just read the comic so recently before seeing it that it was harder for me to just go with it for this. i'll be I'll agree with you on this.
00:52:25
Speaker
And there's also the fact that like there is no such thing in sort of actual... ah Cosmology is a green sign. Cosmology, that doesn't think it's a green sign.
00:52:37
Speaker
I also think it might have added to the stakes if, like, you know, we alluded, first of all, that, you know, both Clark and Kara have existed in this universe for a good minute because someone would have actually put in the time to construct this, you know, green kryptonite. song But also that the bandits either, like, or the brigands, rather, went out of their way to either find this place or, hell, maybe even helped build it.
00:52:58
Speaker
I think that kind have been some interesting, like, world building in the background. And see, i that's where I say I knew that they would have to change it up for this continuity. Because Superman made it clear that he'd only been around for three years at that time. So if we're assuming another year has passed since it's a year in the real world, he's been around for four years.
00:53:23
Speaker
And there was no suggestion that he has gone on a on any spacefaring missions. Yeah, like there's nothing that we know of that says that, but there's also nothing that says that hasn't happened. So it's like weird it's kind of a gray area.
00:53:36
Speaker
ah It's a gray area, but just the way that the character himself is presented, it doesn't seem like he would. Unless it was like, you know, there's some kind of crisis going on.
00:53:48
Speaker
Right. Now, given that Kara goes off, but primarily to Red Sons, to get drunk, maybe...
00:54:00
Speaker
But they seemed surprised, you Krem seemed surprised that he had a Kryptonian to test his arrows on. oh That and that, like, if that's the case, then why would he even know to go to a planet with a green sun anyway? Because she framed it as like, they know this is going to make me weak and like, you know, it's toxic to me.
00:54:17
Speaker
Why would they know of that? Or why would they have known to go there, especially since this appears to have been like a longstanding base of operations for them? yeah I would have liked something there.
00:54:30
Speaker
i propose I would have liked something. like a Like a line about like, since like kryptonite shows up on Earth because it got blasted out when krypton exploded, it's like certain stars are sort of like hit with kryptonite and become these green stars. They could have even done it in that in that in that little text blur. is it like This planet has...
00:54:52
Speaker
a yellow and a green star with felt like a little asterisk, kryptonite infused star. yeah been enough i may think there's I think there's an even simpler way to do it, although I'm going to sound like I'm getting nerdy into the weeds with the science. Because we never do that here.
00:55:13
Speaker
ah After this, we're going to talk about like sports and ah stuff. Go sports. ah course sports Athletics are number one. Participants are heroes. Go team. Yeah. But, but so here, here's my take on it or how I, how I would have easily done it.
00:55:34
Speaker
You have, when you have an actual binary star system, it doesn't work like what we see in the movie. No, it does not. bothering me It doesn't work.
00:55:46
Speaker
It doesn't work like that. so That's not how the force works. So my thought was, you they they mentioned in some of the flashbacks to Argo City that they've discovered that you the explosion of Krypton revealed kryptonite crystals that were affecting the people of Argo City.
00:56:09
Speaker
So this green this green sun isn't a sun. The same kind of thing that happened to Krypton happened to another planet in this system.
00:56:21
Speaker
Or even a moon in the system. And it you know the there's the explosion. And then as the matter and the gases coalesce again, they're basically radiating kryptonite.
00:56:35
Speaker
Then even going back to the Woman of Tomorrow comics, like the way they framed it in there is that it was as they had like traveled throughout the galaxy, the radiation of various different like stars they encountered had changed the makeup of the minerals that were like in the earth underneath Argon. And that was what created the kryptonite that was poisoning them.
00:56:56
Speaker
So there's even like scientifically something in there that would have explained it. others does it So all you had to do is...
00:57:06
Speaker
he plucked it off the ah of the moon like so you you then say okay you know yeah it has formed a a second mini sun in the system but you can work that in to staging the flashbacks when she said you know when they get onto the planet She's like, it's a green sun. It's radiant kryptonite. It's exactly what happened to Krypton after it exploded.
00:57:36
Speaker
Yeah. Actually, it would have given a better context, too. Yeah. And have explained where they got the kryptonite from as well, because if it's like a moon or a nearby planet, you know, it's pretty likely that there would have been bolide impacts, which would have contained kryptonite. Ergo. Yeah.
00:57:51
Speaker
So i it's a nerdy thing. It did not kill the movie for me, but I would have liked something to explain it. you know they They've obviously figured out that you know she's a Kryptonian of some kind. and That means you could have been a Daxamite.
00:58:11
Speaker
Well, they haven't been established in this universe. Yeah, we don't if exist yet. They haven't been established in this universe, and if it were, all they need to do, all they need is a regular bullet, because lead.
00:58:24
Speaker
Yep. So, actually... There it is! um Are you pushing up your glasses? Yes. Actually... mean, that works because you guys actually have glasses, I do not.
00:58:37
Speaker
yeah i mean, you can always you can always grab a pair if you need one. My sunglasses are down in my car. Or you know we can we can get you some that just have you know glass or plastic with no prescription.
00:58:55
Speaker
I mean, I have a pair. They're just like in a box somewhere with the rest of my cosplay stuff. Or just a couple pairs. Or they can be like the the ones on the Big Bang Theory that Johnny Galecki wore as Leonard that had no glass in them because they reflected the studio lights. But without his glasses, Leonard was blind as a bat.
00:59:14
Speaker
So every time he took them off, but people were like, there's no glass in them. Anyway. Just got to add in post.
00:59:23
Speaker
You think a sitcom's going to do that? multi-cam sitcom? saw what kind budget they got. All that budget was going to to Parsons, Galecki, and Cuoco.
00:59:35
Speaker
Yep. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Oh, their occasional special guest, too. Yes. Yes. Wheaton! Oh.
00:59:45
Speaker
The Summer Glow episode. But that this seems like a good time to go into your notes on Clark, Betsy. Yes. Because one thing I liked was, I mean, most of how they had, like,
00:59:59
Speaker
Clark's appearances were either on flashbacks or him like calling her while she was on different planets like from her ship and I just like that Clark just keeps calling Kara and telling her to come home because he misses her and I like that it doesn't really come from a place of like you know there's no like nagging or finger wagging or shaming because she's out partying it's more like the sense that he's homesick but like for a person instead of a place because for Clark home is family And, like, something that really hit me, too, is that when she came back and she says, like, yeah, I think I might stay for a while, you see him start visibly tearing up.
01:00:36
Speaker
And, you know, Carter also tries very hard not to get emotional. It kind of fails, but whatever. Because, like it's not only is like, it's not only that part of his family is coming back, but also maybe, like, she's starting to let herself think of him as family, too.
01:00:50
Speaker
And, you know, I'm not gonna lie, I always have been and always will be a slipper-found family in all its forms. Yep. and it mean That was a really good emotional beat to me. We have a huge found family. so e And I think like it was a really good way of bringing Clark back in at the end while still making it her movie because it's her choice. She's the one that's deciding to stay. and as much as he's you know like ready to start crying, he's like, yay, my cousin's going to stay. My family is here. She's also kind of reaching this point where she's like, maybe it's okay if I let myself make a home somewhere.
01:01:26
Speaker
I think a huge part of why she didn't want to stay on Earth, not only was it, you know, she's kind of in Clark's shadow, but it's also, I can see a lot of reluctance to establish a new home anywhere after the one that she'd known for the rest of her life basically exploded, and everyone died.
01:01:43
Speaker
Like, it's hard to want to establish a new home when you have this idea that it's not going to last because it's going to go the same way as the one before that did, and everything that you love and everyone that you know and love is just going to one day, like,
01:01:55
Speaker
up and die and leave. And all we left is Ash. That's how she's like allowing herself that bit of vulnerability that it takes to be able to see somewhere at home and start to put down roots. Like she's trusting that maybe it'll be okay.
01:02:10
Speaker
Maybe it'll be worth it.
01:02:14
Speaker
Yeah, I i liked, like i like we said in the non-spoiler bit, he was used appropriately. And He had that tie. and And you touched on the kind of stuff that I was trying to go into without hitting on spoilers. So thank you. ah Yeah, there was like not a good way to do that without getting into stuff.
01:02:38
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But it was. i was surprised, like I said before, how much he was in the movie, but he didn't overshadow her.
01:02:49
Speaker
Not at all. it was yeah A lot of him being present outside of like a screen was in flashbacks establishing like her finding her way on the planet.
01:03:00
Speaker
This was a compliment, not not not a overshadowing. Even though like his he overshadows her in the initial ideals, but it's like in the actual story of the movie, he does not overshadow her.
01:03:16
Speaker
He was her welcoming committee and also the only one that actually like spoke English out of the two of them. So we kind of also needed that a little bit. Yeah. ah one of the One of the things, too, that I think it really worked because...
01:03:32
Speaker
Both of the characters in universe are relatively new. He's only been around for that four years-ish. And she came to Earth after that.
01:03:44
Speaker
After he was established already. So, let's say, what, two? One or two years? Yeah, I'd probably a year or two into his tenure as Superman.
01:03:55
Speaker
So... I think that it works that neither of them has the galactic reputation from the comic.
01:04:07
Speaker
Yeah. Because with without that reputation, in that that allows this story to be hers as she's going on this journey out in space.
01:04:20
Speaker
It's not... it's not I'm on this planet with a green sun that was created as a trap for my cousin. It's not people recognizing the S-Shield, you know, various aliens recognizing the S-Shield because they have a reputation out in the galaxy.
01:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, she's able to exist as her own character instead of a piece of this other existing, better known character. She feels less like an afterthought and more like her own person. Which it also you might be worth mentioning here that throughout most of this, you it utmost of this she's wearing a blondie t-shirt, jeans, and a duster. She's not wearing the shield.
01:05:03
Speaker
yeah Nope. Because that's not her.
01:05:10
Speaker
she doesn't She hasn't accepted that as her. And in fact, if you look at her at the end of Superman, yeah, she's wearing the costume at the end of Superman, but she's got the duster on over it. Yeah.
01:05:23
Speaker
Which, A, that's just, you cueing in the nerds like us in the know, hey, look, it's her Woman of Tomorrow look. look Yeah.
01:05:34
Speaker
Which she doesn't even wear for most of the comic. It's just an iconic look in the comic. Yeah. yeah But, you Through most of of the movie, she even though she calls herself that, she's not Supergirl.
01:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, she's just Kara. like Like she says to Ruthie, when ruthie you when they get to the green sun planet and Ruthie arrives and she's like, I got this out of your ship and hands her the suit. it so It's just a suit. It yeah does it doesn't do anything.
01:06:11
Speaker
And yet once the yellow sun comes up and she's reinvigorated invigorated and goes off to take on the brigands, she puts on the suit because, well, hell yes, it does do something. It says I'm Supergirl.
01:06:26
Speaker
Yep.
01:06:29
Speaker
She's accepting what it means to her instead of what was given to her by someone else. Exactly. And ah we I keep circling back to Superman, and I don't mean to because we keep saying this is clearly Kara's movie, but I just love the flashback to when he gives her the suit.
01:06:48
Speaker
He's like, it may look kind of silly, but it's colorful because they have to know theyre that we're good. Again, that the idea of being good is a is a major theme
01:07:04
Speaker
and i just love the yeah loves that imagery and and in actual in accent access yeah hollywood could it also being like if you it's sort of in that way if you're gonna it's sort of like uh like uh going back to like captain america uh and the winter souls was like if you if you're going to fight by the war you gotta wear a uniform it's like you he wanted Clark wants her to wear a uniform that's so that shows that she's good.
01:07:34
Speaker
Yep. She's one of the good guys. Yep. And so i You know, i understand that given the structure of it, there weren't many shots of her in the costume, particularly yeah what you want to call beauty shots of her in the costume.
01:07:56
Speaker
But I really wish that none of the trailers or anything had had that shot, first shot of her in the costume in front of the sun. no i agree yeah No, agree. That was like... It still hit, but...
01:08:11
Speaker
It would have hit harder if we didn't see that. yeah Yeah. And so I didn't notice and we've only seen it the one time. So I don't know if either of you have noticed it.
01:08:23
Speaker
I did see in the credits as we were waiting for an end credit scene that never came. That it said just righted original Superman theme by John Williams. yeah was Was that where it was?
01:08:37
Speaker
i think that's where it was. Okay. Okay. Yeah, i'm pretty sure it was, if I remember. but it's i mean it just It seems like the perfect place for it. Yeah. but Speaking of that, like um mean I know that suppose like some people say, like oh, they're just primed to do that because of like that's how movies are. I swear that felt like there was a scene needed to be at the end credits. like Something, it just felt like it.
01:09:05
Speaker
Genuinely. Well, it it feels like... Oh, I copy-paste it from my other notes. I know what I wanted to see at the end. weve we've We've been trained by Marvel and other studios have picked it up. And when James Gunn was launching this and when Superman came out last year, I do appreciate what he said in that he doesn't want to use end credit scenes to promote future product projects. And that's fair.
01:09:35
Speaker
He wants each of the movies to stand on their own. And if there's an idea for a fun little stinger, great, we'll go for it. Can I say what I wanted to be the stinger? Can I say what I wanted to be the stinger?
01:09:47
Speaker
yeah Go for it. I wanted, because at the end when she tells Ruthie to come with her to like keep celebrating, like finish celebrating her birthday, I wanted the end thing to be the two of them at a karaoke bar singing Blondie.
01:10:01
Speaker
yeah Yes. Since that needle drop was in the trailer, but not in the movie. Exactly! That's where I wanted it to come back! that That's good. I wanted them to be at a karaoke bar in space singing Blondie.
01:10:15
Speaker
That works. That works because ah ah apparently all of the bars in space have Earth music. Exactly. well not And she like plugged in her iPod. So I feel like you could probably do that.
01:10:28
Speaker
I'm talking about the bar where they met Lobo. Oh yeah, that too. And the live act was singing the girl from Ipanema. And cheekto Cheek to Cheek. Yeah, Cheek to Cheek too, yeah. Those were some beautiful needle drops. Honestly, they understood the assignment.
01:10:43
Speaker
Now... Let's go on and and get into the ending of the movie. And there's already we've we've mentioned online discourse a few times. There's already online discourse about the ending. So let's take a look at some of the points that people are hitting and dig into them. Once we've got all of the all of the points out here, there's only like three that I made a note of.
01:11:07
Speaker
So, first of all, there's some bad faith comparisons of Man of Steel to Supergirl. And comparing comparing Superman killing Zod to her killing Krem.
01:11:19
Speaker
Nope. Not even close. And, you know, the the bad faith arguments of, well, everybody that likes the gun verse and hated the Snyder verse hated that Superman killed Zod, but nobody's complaining about Supergirl killing Krem.
01:11:37
Speaker
Yeah, I have something I can say to that. Supergirl is not Superman. The end. The end. That's all you need to say. That's it. That's the entire point.
01:11:48
Speaker
That's the that's a thesis point of this entire movie. They are different people, different characters with different ethos. And then there's also discourse about the change from the ending in the comic where, uh,
01:12:04
Speaker
Krem spends centuries in the Phantom Zone. He's released by Supergirl with an elderly Ruthie who knocks him down in silhouette with her cane. But the way it's done, his fate is ambiguous. Did he kill did she kill him? Did she just you know knock him down or what? And her narration, which we we touched on her narration in the comic, the comic is entirely narrated by Ruthie.
01:12:30
Speaker
It's basically her book that she published about the events. And it's an entirely an unreliable narration. She admits that she's an unreliable narrator too. Yes. Yes, she admits she's an unreliable narrator because in her narration she says, oh, well, in my book I said that Supergirl killed Krem so that the brigands wouldn't come after me.
01:12:53
Speaker
And so there are... There are people who are um work complaining about that change from the ambiguous ending to, look, Krem's dead.
01:13:09
Speaker
Well, you know, that's that's kind of par for the course for modern superhero movies.
01:13:18
Speaker
Even superheroes that traditionally don't kill, nine times out of ten, they're they're leaving the the villain's body at the end of the movie. And, I mean, but honestly, was anyone expecting Cram of the Yellow Hills to return in Avengers Doomsday?
01:13:38
Speaker
No, we're not even playing the cue because nobody expected that. Because the character has appeared in one... This is the second story he's ever appeared in.
01:13:50
Speaker
like And the first time with all the dermals. That was a lot of dermals. Yep, but it's like... This this this isn't an iconic, like, oh man, I wish this character would come back back in X, Y, and Z like story to fight again. it's like The majority of people seeing the movie you are like, who are you?
01:14:09
Speaker
Although, kent can I mention... I mentioned this to Nick Sunday when we were over there for a game. But can I mention that I liked the... I don't know if it was the actor, if it was the writing, if it was the directing, or a combination of all of the above.
01:14:24
Speaker
But I liked the little character tick that carried throughout the movie that he he takes other people's food.
01:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, he was hungry. He was a hungry boy. He took the pie in Ruthie's house at the beginning. And the milk. The milk. um He took her... um He took Ruthie's ah worm and gruel.
01:14:54
Speaker
He took her cereal bowl out of the sink. Yeah. yeah He took her cereal bowl out of the sink and ate her cereal. So, I... I like that character tick. I don't know who came up with it, but props to them because it's a... I hesitate to call it interesting. I stopped just short of interesting.
01:15:15
Speaker
It's a memo. I like the performance. I like the character development. It's just like, I did not... At no point was like, but either he dies here or he doesn't.
01:15:30
Speaker
I think it's also a good shorthand to demonstrate it as a character like his sense of entitlement and his idea that you know everything should be his if he can take it because it makes right and that you know no one else no one can say shit to him about what he wants to take.
01:15:44
Speaker
It's so of so ah so a asserting dominance in a scene. yeah you know The kind of person that he is, he's like, I don't give a shit. This was out here. I'm going to take it. I don't care if it's anyone else's. It's mine now because I said so. ye The end.
01:15:59
Speaker
And then the the final point that I've seen discussed online is debating the ending, utter undercutting the story's themes, and undercutting Kara's speech to Ruthie immediately before that about how killing Krem wouldn't be satisfying to her and it wouldn't you know it it would haunt her forever.
01:16:23
Speaker
I got a wall of text about that. You do, your wall of text is right in line with my thoughts on it, so go. Okay, here's kind of how I interpreted that, and you know sorry if this is long-winded, which, because it's me, it probably will be, but what else did you expect?
01:16:41
Speaker
So when Kara was first laying that out, like, Ruthie's response to Kara saying, like, you know, don't do the murder thing was, so what, I don't kill him and I end up like you? As if, you know, vengeful murder and depressed chemical dependency are two distinct separate roads to choose between. But no, like, what I saw is that Kara, like, stopping Operation Bloody Retribution was literally just all about making sure Ruthie wouldn't end up exactly like her.
01:17:05
Speaker
Like, yeah, murder is bad and whatever, but Kara, like, wasn't trying to keep Ruthie from committing some heinous sin or going dark side or whatever, because, like, I feel like that's not really what was at stake here. What Kara was ultimately wanting was to prevent Ruthie from letting her grief eat away at hers as she felt, like, deeper and deeper into this spiral of self-destruction until one day that grief just swallowed her whole, which is the place that Kara believes she herself already is. And I think that, in turn, is why Kara kills Krem at the end, because, like, in her mind, she's past saving.
01:17:37
Speaker
Ruthie is not. Like, the grief spiral took her so long ago, and it's too late to do anything about it now. But if she can't save herself, she can at least save someone else from making those same mistakes.
01:17:48
Speaker
And that was her motivation. Like, as much as, you know, there's the more the morality to don't kill people because killing is bad, the ultimate thing was about not giving in to... like that horrible cycle of grief and self-destruction because that is what destroys people.
01:18:04
Speaker
Not just you know having to live with the fact that you killed someone, but what that represents on a larger scale and what it's connected to, what it's a symptom of. i see.
01:18:15
Speaker
Yep. And like Kara herself, as far as she was concerned in that moment, she was too far gone. There was no point in saving her. It wouldn't make a difference if she killed him or not. She was already swallowed up by that grief a long time ago.
01:18:27
Speaker
And part of her journey from here, I think, is going to be learning that, no, there is still a lot left of her that she can salvage, because no matter how much that grief has eaten away at her, it hasn't swallowed her entirely. Not yet.
01:18:41
Speaker
Not if she doesn't let it.
01:18:44
Speaker
That's very interesting. agree with everything there. But you know who doesn't have a nuanced point, but is also right? Lobo! Lobo!
01:18:56
Speaker
Yeah, nuance and Lobo have never been used in the same sentence. Lobo knows exactly what he's about. And he look he is at the Lobo-est in this movie.
01:19:09
Speaker
And he he was not New 52 Lobo. No, he was not. No, he was not. We do not talk about New 52 Lobo in this house. Hey, Comic Drake talked about New 52 Lobo just in the past week.
01:19:24
Speaker
And hey, you were the one that brought up New 52 earlier, Nick. yep I brought up the good part of it. not I'm just saying, you only have yourself to blame. You're the one that evoked New 52 already.
01:19:35
Speaker
That's right. yeah It's too early to end the episode. We have one more one more Betsy Wallow text before we end it. I'm not picking on you. I'm just stating a fact.
01:19:47
Speaker
Yeah, we're not picking That was a factual statement. Let the record show you were the first one to bring up the New 52. Yep.
01:19:56
Speaker
We have it recording. It is true. We do. We do. And everyone who is hearing it right now is listening to said recording. Mm-hmm. Ooh, something about... Again, it's like poetry, so if they rhyme... There it is!
01:20:15
Speaker
But go go on, Betsy. I know you have a little more here about Kara. Oh, you mean my last thing that's the thing I always talk about whenever I get the chance? Yep. Yes. Yeah.
01:20:26
Speaker
Because I just love that Kara is allowed to be one of my favorite things in media, which is a bad survivor. Like, seriously, I will never get tired of seeing bad survivors in media. Because we deserve representation, too.
01:20:40
Speaker
Like, not everyone's trauma makes them kinder, or stronger, or whatever, like, platitudeness, you know, beautiful, wonderful, flowery thing. Sometimes trauma fucks you up in ways that can't be wrapped up in a neat little bow.
01:20:53
Speaker
And that's Kara. She's messy and irreverent and she's struggling to process her grief and her trauma has left her like angry and jaded and hurt. And honestly, i for one love that for her because it just, it feels raw and honest in a way that so many narratives just don't.
01:21:09
Speaker
And I especially love it here where we get like this juxtapositionposition juxtaposition of one of the most powerful people in the known universe who on the inside is struggling to hold herself together. And I also like that by the end she's not better because...
01:21:23
Speaker
you know, trauma it isn't something that you ever just like get over, you know, you don't fix it, you just learn to live with it. And at the end of the movie, I feel like we see the beginning and how she's learning to do that. She's learning to live with what she's experienced and how to keep going.
01:21:37
Speaker
And that's always an ongoing process. And it's never a process that really looks like, you know, neat and tidy and perfect. It's usually a really messy disaster. But it just feels honest in a way to me that I think resonates like with my personal experiences and experiences I've heard from other people. And it's just a story that I think really needs to continuously be told.
01:22:01
Speaker
And given where we leave her at the end of this movie, I am really interested in seeing where she's at next year in Man of Tomorrow.
01:22:15
Speaker
no definitely. Definitely. you know is Is she being the superhero? or um there's There's all sorts of rumors floating around about what Man of Tomorrow might be, quote unquote, based on, if it's based on an existing comic story. And one of the ones that's floating around out there is Panic in the Sky from the early ninety s And granted it was a different, it was a different Supergirl then that was the matrix Supergirl, but matrix was, know, Supergirl was working with originally at least the invaders who were coming in.
01:23:06
Speaker
Yeah. And so, know, Is she susceptible to being kind of, not manipulated, but you know kind of sold on their point of view? you know she She's off-world doing something else because these two movies established that she probably has more of an off-world presence than Clark does.
01:23:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Even if it's not necessarily a Supergirl. So... Do they sell her on on this? The other thing that's interesting is that could be interesting if we're pulling from various inspirations is we know that Lex is back because that's the idea that it hinges on.
01:23:56
Speaker
And and he has he has the green and purple battle suit. It looks fun. it looks if you see in the behind if you look online, that it looks awesome. No, it really does.
01:24:08
Speaker
But around that same time in the comics, after Supergirl came back to Earth, she got involved with, you it was Lex in a cloned body passing himself off as his son, but she was involved with Lex for a while. Mm-hmm.
01:24:28
Speaker
So, you know, there's some potential... and Just for the record, we are not the kind of theory crafters that get so hooked on our little fan theories that if they don't come through, the movie sucks.
01:24:47
Speaker
But they're just interesting ideas that they could pick up and go with. to go that way. I think all of them would make narrative sense. Like even something that looks like regression technically isn't regression because, you know, again, going back to like recovery and processing trauma, it's not linear. So it could very well, again, make sense that there's a point where things start going downhill and then she has to like figure some stuff out again. Yeah.
01:25:11
Speaker
All of it would make sense narratively. And I think that's cool. Yeah. So want crypto to hang out with Dexter.
01:25:20
Speaker
That, that could be, that could be world ending.
01:25:25
Speaker
The crisis of the super pets. Oh no. Oh no. Oh, that that would just that that That would be unbridled chaos.
01:25:37
Speaker
Dogs and cats living hi together, mass hysteria. Mass hysteria. With lantern rings.
01:25:46
Speaker
But, as always, not going you know...
01:25:53
Speaker
Movie's bad. I enjoyed the movie. We all liked I thought it was fun. As always, I'm going to say, see the movie for yourself. Decide if you like it or not.
01:26:06
Speaker
And even if you don't like it, that doesn't make it a piece of crap. It just means that it's not for you.
01:26:12
Speaker
I'm sorry. It's okay to not like things. Is that too much self-awareness and nuance for the current environment? Yes. yes Yeah, like honestly, it's it's okay to just not like things, guys. That's totally fine. You can just not like it because it's not for you, and that can be the end of it.
01:26:29
Speaker
You don't need any sort of other yeah outside justification. You could just say, eh, didn't like it. End of story. But we know that it is, as of the time that we're recording this, which it hasn't even been out for a week, but it is still underperforming to Warner Brothers' expectations. We know this.
01:26:52
Speaker
But I have a feeling that this is going to be like a lot of the genre movies that have been shit on in the past few years, particularly ones that have a certain commonality about ah the leads of the movies.
01:27:10
Speaker
That once once it hits streaming, people are going to watch it and say, like, why did people hate this? Also, when you actually look at the box office numbers and you compare it to like other comparable films, they'll say that this one was a flop, but ones that had lower numbers were somehow a success?
01:27:26
Speaker
Yes. Because that also seems to happen all the time? Yep.
01:27:32
Speaker
Because we've seen that discourse happen with Eternals. We've seen it happen with the Marvels. We've seen it happen with... I'm so sensing a pattern.
01:27:44
Speaker
Do we want to even invoke Captain Yeah, what is the pattern?
01:27:49
Speaker
I mean, Captain Marvel made a billion dollars. And yet, you know, it just wasn't as good as all the other MCU movies. i'm i'm I'm connecting a dot.
01:28:02
Speaker
Connecting a dot.
01:28:05
Speaker
What? what Cats. Yeah, that's it. Cats. Because goose And all of the other Flerkins in the Marvels. And... um No, no, i'm I'm sorry.
Discussion on Morbius and Movie Expectations
01:28:19
Speaker
I'm sorry. Pets.
01:28:20
Speaker
I was going to say, where was the cat in this one? But yeah. There there was a dog. so ah Yes. The common denominator is furry friends. yeah Morbius. Also had bats. Yeah, bats were in there.
01:28:33
Speaker
Sure, that counts. But I have a feeling that the same pattern is going to follow that once it hits streaming, people are going to start watching it. Like people people said I was supposed to hate this, but I liked it.
01:28:50
Speaker
Or like they said I was supposed to hate it and it wasn't that bad. It was, you know, pretty decent and I had fun. I'm not saying it was like Citizen Kane or whatever, but it was good. yeah it i It was good.
01:29:01
Speaker
Not every movie has to be Citizen Kane.
01:29:06
Speaker
Not every movie should be Citizen Kane. Mm-hmm. you can't Sometimes a movie can just be a fun ride, and that's enough. You can't have Citizen Kane all the time, otherwise you won't be able to appreciate eight Citizen Kane.
01:29:21
Speaker
Right? But anyway, that that I'm going get off of the soapbox that I was starting to step on. It's okay, i already spent a lot of time on soapboxes, as I always do when I'm on this show.
01:29:35
Speaker
But I enjoyed the movie. It sounds like both of you enjoyed the movie. I want to see the movie again, but there's a lot of movies coming up that I'm going to be seeing. Yeah.
01:29:47
Speaker
and Including our next episode. Nick is going to be sitting right beside me in the movie theater in about a week and a half, looking between his fingers that are covering his eyes as we watch Evil Dead burn. And then we cross over with our aforementioned friends, the movie Defenders.
Podcast Collaboration and Promotion
01:30:10
Speaker
Ooh, you're crossing the streams. We are. We are going to be having a we are going to be having Scott and Brev from the Movie Defenders on to discuss Evil Dead Burn.
01:30:24
Speaker
Ooh. It's going to be fun. I'm going to have to take something to tie Nick's hands down to the armrests of the chair so that he has to watch the movie.
01:30:39
Speaker
I'm going to clockwork orange him in the movie theater. was to say you need some duct tape? Yes. You want to come with us? You can help tape him down. Here, you hold one arm, I'll hold the other one. Yes.
01:30:50
Speaker
And Nicole can can keep his eyes pried open. That would work, actually. Nicole's there, we may not even need to hold down his arm. She can do all the work for us.
01:31:02
Speaker
Oh, wait, we're picking on Nick, and that's not a bit on this show. Oh, yeah, that's the other show. So let' we'll stop that. And I will just go into my whole scripted bit here yeah and say thanks for joining us for Casual Nerdity. If you're enjoying the show, there's lots of easy ways to support us.
01:31:23
Speaker
Leaving a hopefully good review in your podcast platform of choice helps more listeners find us. And if you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like and subscribe because we need to feed those algorithms.
01:31:37
Speaker
algorithm hungers yes and you can also support the show directly by grabbing a t-shirt from our merch store at store.casualnerdity.com and of course come hang out with us on social media we're casualnerdity all one word on facebook instagram threads and Twitter, X, whatever. you And casualnerdity.com on Blue Sky. Until next time, hug your dog, save the day if you can, and stay nerdy.
01:32:12
Speaker
Bye.
01:32:16
Speaker
This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.