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With Kristi Mair
87 Plays5 years ago
Co-host Kristi Mair swaps chairs this episode to become a guest and let Andy Bannister interview her. They discuss her background in student ministry, the current questions she's hearing and why you don't need a dramatic testimony for effective evangelism.
Kristi currently works as Pastoral Support and Research Fellow at Oak Hill College, whilst studying for her PhD at University of Birmingham. Kristi is also an apologist and evangelist who speaks regularly at evangelistic events. While pursuing her academic career, she has worked with Friends International and the UCCF as their Assistant Team Leader for the Midlands.Kristi's latest book is More Truth: Searching for certainty in an uncertain world. Get a free copy when you support the podcast!
Contact Kristi or Andy on Twitter - @KristiMair or @andygbannister
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Transcript
Introduction to Pep Talk Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello, this is Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast. I'm Andy Bannister. I'm joined by my usual co-host, Kristy Mayer. Hello, Andy.
00:00:17
Speaker
And today we've got a really unusual guest on the podcast, haven't we, Kristy? Oh, indeed we have.
Interview with Kristy Mayer
00:00:25
Speaker
We have indeed, because my guest and my co-host are in fact today one and the same. Whoa. Yeah, we were talking in the sales office and one of my colleagues said, you know, not a lot of our listeners may necessarily know who Kristy, who you are. They've probably seen who I am because they've worked their way through our short answer videos or have seen me do stuff.
00:00:45
Speaker
But other than just being a voice on the podcast, they may not know you. So in this podcast, we're gonna change all of that and I'm actually gonna interview Christie. So now I get to ask the questions and you get to get some answers. Cool, eh? No pressure yet. So I guess the first question I'd love to put to you to kind of sort of get the show rolling.
Kristy's Background and Spiritual Journey
00:01:05
Speaker
I mean, over the years I've known you, you've done all kinds of things. You're a theologian, you're an apologist, you know, whatever that means.
00:01:12
Speaker
You're also an evangelist. I think I first met you on a university mission in Liverpool a few years ago. So how do you get to kind of where you are today? What's the kind of story that's brought you to this point? Oh, where do we start with that? I mean, I think I've had this long, long time unsettled
00:01:33
Speaker
discontentment when it's come to kind of Christianity and the big questions surrounding the Christian faith. So for me as a 16-year-old I was grappling with the unexpected death of my father and I just couldn't understand how there could be a good God who allowed such awful suffering to take place. And so for me at that time I was looking for answers to these questions
00:02:00
Speaker
And the Christians that I came into contact with were really well-meaning, really lovely, really warm, but they couldn't answer my questions. And that left me so frustrated that I just thought, well, if you're saying that you're pointing to this kind of good creator, this heavenly father figure in the sky, who to me at the moment seems like a bit of a psychological crutch, what good reason is there for actually, for me to embrace him for myself?
00:02:28
Speaker
And so that kind of that unsettled agitation that I had as a 16 year old, I think the Lord used to put a bit of a fire in my belly to kind of wrestle with these questions for myself on a deeply pastoral level. And then to think about how to best help other people who may be in a similar situation to the one that I was in so that they for themselves can come to see the truth and the goodness and the beauty of God.
Path to Evangelism and Ministry Work
00:02:54
Speaker
And so how did you get from asking those profound questions as a 16-year-old, as a young woman, into doing university missions and sharing your faith on secular campuses, among other things?
00:03:09
Speaker
Oh, you know, I'm not entirely sure. I think partly I feel like I've fallen into it, but I know that that isn't the case. You know, there's God's good hand over that. I think I've just had, the Lord has given me a real love for His people. And when I was at university after I graduated, I was a student worker in an Elam church in Birmingham and I was there for about a couple of years.
00:03:32
Speaker
and I loved that work because it was an opportunity for me to draw alongside students again who were going through just deeply awful situations and the Lord used that to help me to think through how to best care for others. So I think through the student work in the local church and then working with ECCF for about eight years as a staff worker and then as an assistant team leader in the Midlands, the Lord just fleshed out my
00:04:04
Speaker
my deep love of him and his love of others. So it's not easy. It's not something that you wake up every morning and you think today is going to be a good day. But I think I see the gradual progression from the early times that I had in student ministry and the opportunities that he's given me to fail and to keep going and to keep trying and to keep reading and to keep talking to people like yourself and others.
00:04:32
Speaker
seeing that I don't need to have all the answers but that I think he's just opened up different opportunities for me to be able to engage with seekers in different contexts which I would never have thought that I would do really at all. It's not where I thought I'd be anyway.
Effective Evangelism and Engagement
00:04:50
Speaker
I think what's interesting about that there's something in the way you answer that that I think is profoundly important isn't there because I think it's easy as Christians to think oh if only if only I was in you know this situation or that situation maybe I could be effective for God but the idea of blooming where you're planted. Yes.
00:05:05
Speaker
And so, you know, for people listening to this who may be thinking, well, that's great, you know, you did student ministry, but that's not something I can do. But if you're in the workplace, among a circle of friends in your neighborhood, to be praying, okay, Lord, show me your heart for the people around me, and then show me how I can meet them.
00:05:21
Speaker
Where they are and let me bloom where I'm planted because we don't just need University evangelists We need community evangelists. We need people who invite the non-christian family next door around for dinner We need you know, all of these things and I love the fact that your story reflects that
00:05:36
Speaker
Thank you. I think that's exactly it. Often we shy away from the challenge and we see the gap, don't we, in where we are and where we feel that others need us to be in order to best communicate and to live out and to share God's love with others? And I think that's the question. When we see that gap, do we run away from it or do we trust that God will equip us, that he's put us in this particular situation with these people for a reason?
00:06:00
Speaker
and that he will give us what we need to be able to best shine those lights in that in that context with them.
Common Questions in Faith
00:06:08
Speaker
Now you mentioned for you when you were younger it was the the suffering question was the big one I think that's still a big question for many people many sort of friends who I speak to are not Christians that will often come up. What are some of the other big issues that you think can sometimes be stumbling blocks for people? What are you seeing as you're out there talking to people are not Christians? What are some of the things that the questions that often tend to get asked
00:06:29
Speaker
There are so many. I think recently I've seen a resurgence in some of the questions revolving around God and other religions. How can you be so ignorant and arrogant and divisive in making an exclusive truth claim and saying that Jesus is the only way? Other questions at the moment are centering on sexuality.
00:06:51
Speaker
How can God be good if he's telling me to give up this key part of who I am as a sexual being? And then I think more recently in light of post-truth and fake news, alternative backed phenomenon, it's the question of truth. How do we know? How do we actually know that?
00:07:11
Speaker
This is true that Jesus actually is the Son of God. Isn't that just another power play? Isn't that just another oppressive claim that's being made by one group of people in order to dominate another group? The interesting thing about the truth question, I think that operates on so many levels. I think there's that angle.
00:07:32
Speaker
the other one and in fact you and I and our guest on our previous episode that we recorded, we were talking about this earlier. One of the things I'm seeing in society right now that fascinates me is I think people who are actually perhaps more drawn to Christianity than we might realise see something attractive in that but haven't yet sort of figured out this is actually true. We were talking about the journalist Douglas Murray who wrote the book, he's got a more recent book,
00:07:58
Speaker
But before the one that's just come out, he read a book called The Strange Death of Europe. We already talked about the issues around Islam. But what's fascinating about the book, Douglas is an atheist. Nevertheless, I think he's drawn to Christianity, sees the difference that it's made, sees how it's profoundly more attractive than Islam. But, you know, running through the book is this haunting question. Well, therefore Douglas, why are you still an atheist? And I think for him it's the truth.
00:08:22
Speaker
question. How do we respond to perhaps people who actually perhaps actually like Christianity certainly attracted Jesus more than we might realise but for them it's in the category this is a nice story it's not actually true.
Perception of Christianity and Truth
00:08:34
Speaker
I think it's helping them to see the relevance of this truth claim that one of the ways in which we can all do this is by bringing people into community and into the church
00:08:45
Speaker
family itself so that they see that this isn't just something that's one person is saying this is true for me but not true for you but they're seeing Christian belief they're seeing our loved one and they lived out consistently through the failures and through the repentance and belief that goes on in the community and I think that is that is a that is such a powerful witness that you know we've talked about this before that
00:09:10
Speaker
Jesus sends people out not on their own. You're in your twos, you're in groups, you're in large numbers as you're sent out. And I think it would be great to have one person who is able to speak to the Douglas Murray's of this world and say, look, come home.
00:09:26
Speaker
come and taste and see God's goodness, but bring him into the community that he can see that this isn't just one other truth claim, but this is a consistent reality, that this is God dwelling with his people. I think reading his book, The Strange Death of Europe, one of the things that really struck me was that I think he uses the sentence that Europe has lost its foundational story, there is a vacuum of meaning
00:09:54
Speaker
in Europe which is which is what he says now accounts for this fragmenting of identities and hardening in particular in particular areas but helping him to see that there is then a story which is able to account for his desires for his longings and for the unity that he's trying to in some way
00:10:16
Speaker
carve out and piece together in the person of Jesus Christ, that, yeah, I long for that, I pray for that. That would, yeah, that would be amazing.
Keys to Effective Evangelism
00:10:27
Speaker
So over the kind of, I won't say how many years, because people can do the maths, how old you are, Kristy, you're younger than me. But over the years that you've been involved in evangelism in different ways, what are some of the things that perhaps you've,
00:10:44
Speaker
you've learned that, you know, if you could impart others would be like sort of key ideas for you. Because I think, you know, I meet so many Christians, I think who would love to be more effective at evangelism, feel that it's, you know, it's terrifying. It's not something for them who's perhaps sit there and go, I'm so glad Christie's called to evangelism or Andy's called to, so I don't have to. But evangelism I think is for everybody. You know, what are some of the things when you teach and train folks on evangelism, perhaps that you say, look, here's some, you know, really key things to make you realize that anybody could do this. Where would you begin?
00:11:13
Speaker
Oh, that's just such a great question. I think there are many places that we could start. I think one of the places that I find really empowering is knowing that in evangelism
00:11:25
Speaker
we have nothing to prove. And so when we look at the Great Commission, you know, the end of Matthew, that Jesus says, I will be with you to the very end of the age, like go and make disciples. But firstly, you're not doing this, you're not doing this on your own. You have the Spirit of God who is living in you. He indwells you and He's empowering you to do this. Jesus, the Christ Spirit Himself is with you. So I think that means that often when we feel like we have to have the right answer, that
00:11:53
Speaker
It's either this make or break moment or we'll never again be able to share the goodness of Jesus with our friends. I think it's seeing that God's bigger and better than what you think you're able to contribute to that particular engagement. So it means that I
00:12:12
Speaker
I can go into that with freedom so it means that I can freely prepare and I can freely pray and I can freely prepare. I can pray depending completely on God's sovereignty and upon his empowering spirit and I can prepare well knowing that that question might not come up and that's okay and so that means that if if I'm in a conversation with somebody
00:12:35
Speaker
I think it's better to say, I don't know, can I come back to you, than to try and hash together some kind of answer. Because that was one of the frustrations that I had when I was younger was that it was Christians trying to scramble and think, oh, quick, say something. But then nothing really meaningful was communicated to me other than, yeah, you've got no idea what you believe.
00:13:00
Speaker
And so I think knowing that it's okay to say you don't know something, can I come back to you, that will increase, that increases your credibility and increases the engagement of the other person. And I think also just knowing that when we're speaking with others, our words, they're meaningful, but also our manner as well I think goes such a long way that when you come into a conversation, if we know that we have nothing to fear, nothing to prove,
00:13:27
Speaker
We are spirit and dwells we've we've worked around some of the questions even there's some stuff that we don't know in those in those interactions with others we can We can be kind we can do we can commend the hope that we have with gentleness and and with respect and sometimes sadly in some of the things that I've seen that hasn't been done and and that just
Value of Everyday Testimonies
00:13:52
Speaker
Again, what kind of God are we communicating if we're going into a conversation thinking, again, it's like a power play. I have all the answers. This is what you need to know. The Gospel is a download of information rather than a consistent discipleship of knowing what it looks like to live and to be known by this amazing, trying God. So there's some haphazard thoughts. You're not alone. The Spirit is with you. Prepare well. You don't need all the answers. Be kind.
00:14:18
Speaker
I love the Be Kind piece there, Christi, because one of my favorite verses for years, which we're not surprised, people as an evangelist, is 1 Peter 3, 15, a very famous verse that says, always be ready to give a reason for the hope that we have. But there's two bits that I think is always interesting that is missed. Firstly, it begins by saying, in your heart, set apart Christ as Lord. So make sure we know who Jesus is and where we stand.
00:14:48
Speaker
But then as you say, it ends then with do this with gentleness and respect. But then even recently, just noticing, it doesn't say give a reason for what you believe and beat the other person of superiority into defeat with your clever answers. It's just give a reason for the hope that you have. So share with our friends and neighbors, our colleagues, this is the hope that we have and gee, we're in a world that wants hope. And they just give some reasons why that hope is true, but with gentleness and respect.
00:15:13
Speaker
And that reason for the hope that we have, that is ultimately found in the person and work of Jesus Christ. But we can also talk about testimonies of God's ongoing goodness in our life. And I think that's something that we sometimes feel like, okay, I've got to give the testimony of this one amazing interaction that I had with God that kind of pushed me over into belief. But many of us don't have those kind of testimonies.
00:15:40
Speaker
I wasn't converted from a lifestyle which was thousands of miles away from a good moral, what a good moral life looks like for a 16 year old girl. I don't have the dramatic, I was a drug addict and then this happened and praise God for those kind of testimonies. But I think often that means that when we elevate those, we then denigrate the
00:16:08
Speaker
actually I was praying for this and then God answered that the next day. And just being able to communicate just a small testimony of what's really significant of what God has done in your life a day ago is a reason for the hope that you have. And being able to do that, I mean Peter's talking about in the context of suffering, isn't he? And others being provoked by the way in which we live when we suffer to ask us questions.
00:16:38
Speaker
But I think not being afraid to share the small things of God that he's able to use those powerfully to remove the veil from other's eyes. I think they're dead right and it's very important. I can remember as a young Christian, you know, similarly struggling with the fact that I, you know, wasn't, I hadn't been a granny murdering, drug taking psychopath. And at one point thinking I should have gone and killed a few grannies before I became a Christian. You heard it here first.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, don't take that out of context. Twitter lights up. But the other thing that occurs to me, what you said, that I think is interesting, if we lean too hard on those very dramatic testimonies, it doesn't just disempower people. Many people like us listening to this may just have very ordinary testimonies, although every testimony isn't ordinary because it's supernatural.
00:17:23
Speaker
But also it occurred to me not that long ago that actually if we overemphasize the very dramatic testimonies, the problem is then you engage non-Christian friends who look at you and go, why do I need God? My life's not a mess. Because I think sometimes our non-Christian friends pick up the fact, or maybe if you are a massive wreck of humanity, I could see how religion might be useful for you. But I'm okay, the job's good, the kids are good, life is good, why would I need God?
00:17:50
Speaker
And actually, I think, yeah, that testimony of, well, let me tell you about God in the everyday. He actually has more resonance than we might realize. And so I think it's important for, you know, I want listeners to hear that really, whatever your testimony is.
God's Work in Everyday Life
00:18:02
Speaker
If you've got dramatic testimony, fantastic. If there are any granny murdering psychopath listening, you know, it's great that God saved you. But for ordinary, you know, men and women listening and going, you know, I'm just like an ordinary Jane, but you know, God dramatically turned my kind of life around. I'm a new creation. That's to the testimony.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah, because otherwise what we end up doing is we end up saying, well, I know this person to whom this thing happened. And then you're kind of saying, God works for that person, but you're not saying that he was actually able to work. I mean, work in vertical commas. He's not able to speak to you in a way that's meaningful so that you can communicate with the person in front of you. And you're always deferring to these amazing stories.
00:18:44
Speaker
and kind of saying, they're the ones that have meaning and are significant and yeah, you know, I've got this and that going on, but that's what we should be aiming for. So again, that subtly communicates to the person who is seemingly sorted.
00:18:58
Speaker
that unless they too have that kind of encounter they can't kind of grasp the the wonder of God's goodness. Yeah I just think it's such a such a hard way
Equipping Christians for Evangelism
00:19:09
Speaker
in. Yeah that's helpful and I think it's also you know I think it's light of the heart to of why we're doing the podcast I guess because I think I think as you and I sort of talked about this and set this up thinking was you know how do we how do we equip you know Christians who are
00:19:24
Speaker
you know, just desperate to reach out to their friends and neighbours, their classmates, maybe feel that they can't do evangelism because they're not, they haven't got the dramatic testimony, they're not learning PhDs, whatever, but really want to make an impact. How can we help people see that actually God can use you whoever you are, no matter what your story. If it's dramatic, sure he can use you, but if you don't feel that's you, he can use you too. And if we can use the podcast to get great tools to people's hands, then we'll have succeeded, right?
00:19:49
Speaker
Precisely. Amen. Yes. Amen to that. Well, it's been good fun turning the kind of tables and interviewing you rather than having you co-interview with somebody. So, Christy, thank you for all that you do, and it's looking forward to working with you on the show. And I hope listeners have enjoyed today's slightly unusual version of the Pep Talk podcast. Can't wait. Thank you, Andy.