Transcript
John S: Good morning, welcome to the Business of Machining episode 412. My name is John Saunders.
johngrimsmo: And my name is John Grimsmo.
John S: John and i talk each week about how life's going running our shops.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: How are you?
johngrimsmo: I'm doing good. little overwhelmed last week, but this week I'm feeling positive, good on top of things, getting things done. I got a good point I'll get into later.
John S: Good.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. yeah
John S: I know you were at a knife show in Canada land.
johngrimsmo: yeah Yeah, we had a Toronto Knife Show, which hasn't been on in like 10 plus years. um
John S: Oh, wow.
johngrimsmo: Otherwise, we would have gone. But yeah, Eric and I went in 2012 to the same event, and that was our first Knife Show. and we had I literally brought some stuff this weekend that I brought to that show, like a Spyderco with our handles on it.
John S: That's awesome.
johngrimsmo: The first Norseman we ever made that's like garbage, but still looks kind of cool. um So that was really cool to bring back. And some of the people that came to our table were like, I remember you know seeing you 12 years ago here.
John S: Was it the same room?
johngrimsmo: It might have been. It's probably the same hotel by the airport.
John S: That's crazy.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, so.
John S: I don't know about you, but I have a real, I think oddly heightened sense of nostalgia. There's a random fairgrounds in York, Pennsylvania that Jan and I drove.
John S: was living in New York City. We rented a car, drove there for a strike mark, for a big gun show.
johngrimsmo: Okay, yeah.
John S: It was our first public facing show where you could actually buy a target. i in In fairness, have not driven by that, but I heard about somebody from York a while ago, and I was just like, oh my gosh, like that just seems like a different life, a different world.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yes.
John S: Fond. Crazy to look back on that.
johngrimsmo: Exactly. If you ever did drive by it, you'd be like, man, I remember when. I've
John S: Yeah. Oh, that's what it was. I think Cabin Fever. Remember that? You ever heard of that?
johngrimsmo: heard of it.
John S: I don't know what happened to that. It was a big not like maker, machinist show. I don't know. I think it's still going on. But yeah.
John S: Well, good. I'm glad. ah what's What's going on in the machine shop production? fill oh how was the show? You sold?
johngrimsmo: Oh yeah.
John S: Sure.
johngrimsmo: I was trying to remember what we were just talking about. Yeah. So we sold, ah we brought a lot of product because it's so local and we have some inventory and we're like, oh, spring a lot. I have no idea how this turnout's going to be, how the local scene is.
John S: sure
johngrimsmo: um So we sold many, several knives and a few pens and having the variety to display was the best it was like not just had two on the table we had like like one on display or one you could pick up and hold two in the boxes open and this stack of you know ones behind that so if somebody's like really serious um you're like well you know we got a blue one here we got green one we got the damn steel blade on this one and have you tried our saga yes it was really cool and it's always fun going those shows um
John S: Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Because all kinds of people, you know, people always ask me who's my demographic. and i'm like, I can't pinpoint. it's like all kinds of people from all walks of life. um Obviously, they need enough disposable income to drop $1,000 on a knife. But, um you know, from from tradesmen to doctors and lawyers and aircraft mechanics and everything, mostly men.
John S: So mostly males, just say jokingly.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah. So there is that. um But of young guys, old guys, um you know, kids that follow our brand and all kinds of stuff. So it's cool.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: But it's cool to see them firsthand, um interact with them, you know, ask them good questions, how they heard about us, where they're from kind of thing, what they're into. um It's fun to ask if they have any other interesting hobbies, because sometimes, you know like, actually, I you know make RC model whatever trains, one guy said, one of the guys.
johngrimsmo: um And he's like, yeah, actually, this blade shape on the field would be really good for my model train assembly something like, don't know.
John S: Oh, okay.
johngrimsmo: You got it, buddy.
John S: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um But yeah, and the passion that some of the guys have, like several of the people are like, I've been following you since the garage days, which is you know over 10 years ago for us now. And yeah, it's cool.
John S: It's awesome.
johngrimsmo: Yep. I saw it.
John S: ah Glad it was a good turnout, good energy.
johngrimsmo: It was great. Yeah. like Like a lot of hundreds of people flowed through the yeah the event. um i don't I don't know what the count was, but it was busy.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It was steady for us.
John S: One day.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, one day show.
John S: That's nice.
johngrimsmo: They asked for next year if if we should keep it one day or two day. I said two day because it just allows more people like to schedule to come to the show. So we should have more foot traffic.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So I don't know if they'll do one day or two day, but but yeah, it's fantastic.
John S: Good. That's awesome.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: So that good.
johngrimsmo: What else? What else? In the shop. um Fine tuning little problems that have been bugging us or just making bad parts, um even on on certain steady product lines like Norseman Rask, things like that.
John S: Right.
johngrimsmo: Sometimes something something will rear its ugly head and the problem will need to be solved, you know, put your foot down, not make it anymore until we move forward. And then sometimes it's like, yeah, that's always been kind of bugging us.
johngrimsmo: let's Let's tackle this now so that it doesn't become a worse problem over time and that it makes everybody else's life down the line easier.
John S: right Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um So some of that with the Rask we're dealing with, some of that with the Norseman blades we're dealing with. I forget where I left you off on the grind mill, using the CBN grinding mill to grind the Norseman bevels.
John S: Yeah, where did we leave off? It was was going well, you blew one up.
johngrimsmo: Well, I had... I blew one up and then probably right after the podcast last week, I blew the second one up.
John S: Oh, come on, John.
johngrimsmo: um And blowing it up is not the right word, but no, I didn't.
John S: You didn't turn the coolant off, did you?
johngrimsmo: um But it made three or four blades.
John S: okay
johngrimsmo: And then by the end of that, it was toast. um the The CBN grains that are electroplated onto the thing had just totally ripped off.
John S: Oh.
johngrimsmo: And now you got HSS shank rubbing on your blade.
John S: Got it.
John S: Friction stir welding.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, basically, which still left a half decent finish, um at least at this point in the grind.
John S: ah
johngrimsmo: ah So I passed those blades up as like, you know, big Sharpie, you know, notes and question marks on it. Like, I don't think these are going to pass your inspection, tumbling, things like that um to Eric and the team up front. But I was like, they look OK-ish.
johngrimsmo: Like.
John S: The first blue, the first CVN, uh, would you call it grind mill?
johngrimsmo: Grindmill, yeah.
John S: It lasted longer and then only failed when you turn the quote off. Is that my remnant?
johngrimsmo: ah No, I turned the coolant off fairly early after a blade or two.
John S: Ah, oh, so this whole thing may be a bust.
johngrimsmo: and Maybe, maybe not. um It's a fairly fine grit and I might need to progress like a coarse grind mill first and then a fine, fine grill because I think I'm either heating it up too much, loading it up too much, asking too much of it.
John S: Okay.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: The previous end mill is leaving more stock than it likes kind of thing. um But hard milling with the stick out I need requires... the if the roughing end mill gets chewed up and deflects.
johngrimsmo: So like how much stock are you leaving?
John S: Okay,
johngrimsmo: Just because you tell Cam that you're leaving five thou doesn't mean reality agrees with you.
John S: yeah sure
johngrimsmo: um
John S: where
johngrimsmo: So one solution is to do this all in the speedio where we filter the cooling even better and use grind mills for the whole process, not even use an end mill to rough it out. um
John S: Really?
johngrimsmo: Yeah, it's not that hard. It just makes more dust.
John S: Well, we don't don't you not know if they're going to last, the tool?
johngrimsmo: True, I don't know. But I now have zero inventory, so my current task is to, what what am I ordering um for the next batch?
John S: OK.
John S: Right. Sure, sure.
johngrimsmo: Like, A, to experiment further, but also, like, let's get several so that I have enough to, like, play properly.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um
John S: Right.
johngrimsmo: So I think I want to get some coarser ones that can actually do all the roughing and not load up and not wear out and should just last... um And of course, the manufacturer won't tell you how long it's going to last because every application is different.
johngrimsmo: um
John S: Yeah, piss on that, though.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, like I was pushing them too.
John S: I...
johngrimsmo: And they're like, it should last for a while, like a long time. um Days, weeks, months kind of thing of of your work, whatever it is. And i was like, okay, that that kind of helps.
johngrimsmo: um It shouldn't last three blades. and And, you know, that's like a total time of 42 minutes or whatever it is. No, that's not going to work for me. Yeah.
John S: I pushed back pretty hard. We were looking for a new tap and um but I'm not gonna name the company cause I don't wanna cash shade their way. i'm hoping it works out well. But I was like, can you give me some estimate of tap life via number of holes, cutting conditions, time in the cut, like linear, like any water to your ballpark.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John S: And this was a, This is not the distributor. it was, this is the technical apps person at the manufacturer. It's a strong brand name in that space. And he was just like, absolutely not. I'll never do that. It kind of the hard no. And i was just like, well, um you're putting yourself at a real disadvantage because there are other companies out there that are strong brand names that will will give you estimates.
John S: And i think all of us are mature enough to recognize there are lots of variabilities.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: But as an example, Sandvik not only will give you estimated life, but they'll give you very breakdown photographic examples of how things could fail and what that failure can tell you about, you know, edgeware flank or wood and drilling stuff.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: And it kind of irked me that it was just this whole like, like, I understand, of course, you're not going to sell me 3,272 holes, but you know, it should last more than 300 and it will never last 6,000.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John S: I want more specific than that. But um that was kind of my rant of like, don't know.
johngrimsmo: For sure. Yeah.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: At least the manufacturer showing that they've put in some work. I find that with the hard milling manufacturers, they're like, no, look at this example where it cut for 52 hours in this mold steel at these speeds and feeds and this hardness of this steel.
John S: Exactly. Yes.
johngrimsmo: And I'm not saying it's going to last like that for you, but this is, this did it for us in this kind of machine at this RPM.
John S: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Um, That helps me as a buyer look at that and go, like for the taps, you know this we tapped 8,000 holes in this material and hasn't shipped yet or whatever.
John S: And a lot of what I'm looking for is relative, not absolute.
johngrimsmo: Sure, of course.
John S: I want to know, okay, if I go to this coating that's $7 more per tap, what does that do? Or let's say, you know, we're looking at a trade-off of do we,
John S: ruin the tool or wear through the tool quicker by running it faster, higher surface footage. Generally that's correlated. The caveat being sometimes higher surface footage actually lets the coding work better.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yep.
John S: But generally speaking, higher surface footage means reduced tool life, but that might be worth it for a trade off for us.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John S: um That's what we're trying to, so that's the stuff we're trying to evaluate. And I was just getting, I was just pushed against the whole brick wall on data there. Sorry, back to your grinding.
johngrimsmo: yep um I do think a, because the one I'm using right now is I think a 200 grit um grind mill.
John S: Right.
johngrimsmo: So the size of each CBN particle is whatever that is, 200 grit. They have coarser ones, they have finer ones. They basically told me I can get whatever I want made. um So I might go to a coarser one, like 100 grit or whatever the equivalent range is.
johngrimsmo: Let it do the roughing. It's not going to load up. It's not going to whatever. And then I should have a very repeatable stock to leave for the finish tool, which should absolutely help the finer grit to do its job accurately and not load up.
John S: white
John S: Unsolicited advice, go Courser.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: and
John S: Like if you go, if you go out to your grinder right now, I bet you it's like a 46 grit wheel.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John S: And like those give quote unquote good surface finishes. Like I grew up as a kid using sandpaper and like, you know, 220 was pretty coarse sandpaper.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: Then you could find some hundred or 60 grit and that stuff was like, it was like picking up mountain top and scraping a mountain top range over the, but in grinding wheels, it's not the case.
johngrimsmo: he
John S: Like you, you want free cutting open to rough.
johngrimsmo: Well... A grinding wheel, especially on the size of our grinders, which is what, 12-inch wheel, a 14-inch wheel, something like that, um but even a little six-inch wheel, around the periphery, even though it has big 46-grit rocks, there's a lot of them.
johngrimsmo: Around, you know, one specific circle around the thing.
John S: Sure.
johngrimsmo: So there's a lot of over-cutting, re-cutting of a certain area, that makes sense.
John S: Well, not as, depends on your your feed forward and...
johngrimsmo: I'm trying to think this through. Yeah, but like ah ah grind mill is three-eighths inch diameter, and how many diamonds are on the diameter of a single circumference?
johngrimsmo: um
John S: Yeah, but you're running the grinding wheel at a much higher, so you're talking about the circumference, which is surface foot, surface feet per minute.
johngrimsmo: Sure. I'm just trying to... I guess what I'm trying to do is see the recutting because imagine if you have big grits and they're just making deep gouges and you're not cleaning a lot of the surface off, you're just leaving deep gouges.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: The next tool then has to get rid of the deep gouges. But if there's enough grits and enough, like the right kind of tool path that recuts and ridges the whole surface down so you don't just have big gouges, you have an averaged, you know, scratchy surface.
John S: Yes.
johngrimsmo: um But
John S: that can That can be the same on a small tool and a big tool.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
John S: I understand how it's confusing to think like, okay, let's say you have 150 grains running along, you know snails around the perimeter of the wheel, 150 grains are splitting the work.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John S: but that also has to do with how fast your feet forward and the RPM of the wheel.
johngrimsmo: ye
John S: seriously I just don't think you're stacked. Like my philosophy around this stuff would be okay, if the 46 grit or whatever, the lowest grit they have, if it works and it's reliable and it lasts, but you would rather get a better finish, then you can buy the 80 grit.
johngrimsmo: he
John S: But if it blows up, okay, and needed now we're done.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, you're right. i' i'm finding just I'm finding the zone here. Yep, yep.
John S: Yeah, you always improve it. Although these things aren't free, I know that.
johngrimsmo: Yes, and they the size of the grid goes up cubed?
John S: Okay.
johngrimsmo: I don't know. whatever it's like From 200 grit to 140 grit, it's like four times bigger or something, maybe? i can remember
John S: Oh, the size of the, I don't know.
johngrimsmo: You know what mean? the actual
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: The actual depth of stick out. um
John S: I didn't know what grit measure. Is it a consistent?
johngrimsmo: it's I know there's grit and mesh and they're pretty much the same thing.
John S: Is it. a
johngrimsmo: I've Googled this a bunch and I still don't fully get it. Mesh is like literally a a screen, like ah you know a screen window kind of thing that sifts and whatever falls through that screen is mesh size.
John S: Okay. of Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I think grit is similar, but it's a slightly different conversion scale.
John S: Makes sense.
johngrimsmo: The more I look into it the more I realize i don't really care. I just need to know what I'm looking at.
John S: But even that, like dressing, and I'm like ah beginner on surface grinding, but the this if you dress the wheel faster, you're moving the dressing stone diamond across the face faster.
John S: youre You're leaving a more open cut, free cut, versus if you if you went across the wheel at molasses speed, you'd be doing a bunch of spring pass cutting. You'd be turning it perfectly smooth, which is...
John S: I don't say it's not good, but, um, usually you want a free or cutting open dress for certainly for roughing.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, grinding doesn't like that. um And in my application with the electroplated wheel, you can't dress it. You don't dress it.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: You don't you don't do anything to it.
John S: Right.
johngrimsmo: You just run it. um
John S: Do they make the same grit wheel with different ah quote unquote dresses or application density?
johngrimsmo: Good question. Density, I think, is something you can make from electroplated. I don't know. As far as I understand, they literally glue the shank and roll it through loose abrasive.
johngrimsmo: And then the electroplate on top of it to capture everything.
John S: Interesting.
johngrimsmo: I think. I'm not 100% on this, but I'm led to believe that that's the case.
John S: Okay.
johngrimsmo: um I don't know if density... Like when they make a resin bond wheel where there's a binder...
John S: Mm-hmm.
johngrimsmo: the grits floating around that binder and then they compress it or whatever they do to it. That you can absolutely adjust the concentration of. You can have more diamonds per cubic inch. um
John S: Mm-hmm.
johngrimsmo: With Electro play at it? I don't know.
johngrimsmo: But I'll play.
John S: Interesting.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, they're...
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Obviously, they're more expensive to buy one versus five. They have pretty decent price breaks. I also have the choice between ah steel shank and a carbide shank, which almost doubles the price, like 80% more expensive.
John S: Ooh, yeah, right? Yeah.
johngrimsmo: ah The guy said the tool should last a lot longer because you have less deflection and all that stuff. So, like, where's the balance? I don't know.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So, yeah. And then for funsies, I kind of want to go finer as well, just to see, just like
John S: And, and, good.
johngrimsmo: Holy cow.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: Are you're, so what's the core problem you're solving here?
johngrimsmo: um for For 14 years now, we've been using ball mills to finish this, and they die very quickly, especially in the harder steels like Magna Cut.
John S: That's right. Okay.
johngrimsmo: And just maybe it's the fixture, maybe it's the stick out that I need to reach. Maybe it's a lot of things, but the tool dies very quickly. And that's that's annoying
John S: Yeah.
John S: So we, um, I broke a tool, which I'll tell you about a second. And I had one more, but I didn't want to use it. So I switched. It was a Mitsubishi 4mm hard mill on a 6mm shank.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John S: And I bought it because NS, who was our, we like Mitsubishi, but for whatever reason I wanted to try NS, We bought the two millimeter ball from them. It's been great. I went to buy this tool from them and it was like another three week lead time. I'm like, sorry guys, and like no, which is another point I wanted to bring up about lead times on stuff.
John S: So bought the Mitsubishi, runs great, but I broke it. I'll come back to that. And then i thought, okay, well I can, do what I've been, i can test doing this hard milling with the tool that we have been using to rough hard mill.
John S: The thought here was like, okay, don't use your hundred dollar NS tools to rough. If you can find an acceptable, Different tool. And that tool has been an absolute powerhouse. It's a 316 that we buy from Haas Tooling. I'm assuming it's YG1.
John S: It is like I bought 10 yesterday because they were $15 on sale for $9.50. won't die.
johngrimsmo: Jeez.
John S: Like in 58 Rockwell.
johngrimsmo: my gosh.
John S: it will die
johngrimsmo: In hard milling.
John S: like it in sixty fifty eight rockwell
johngrimsmo: Yeah, that's hard.
John S: It is legit.
johngrimsmo: Wow.
John S: um And normally we rough with it. So I don't particularly care if there's some minor edge fracturing it. Like if it's just not perfect because the hard mill cleans it up, it's great. Here I was finished milling some service ground parts that we didn't like. So we really have to hard mill a feature back in, no big deal.
John S: And it worked like great, like just great. I don't know what point that was. Sorry, I lost my train thought.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. That's crazy.
John S: Oh, well, like don't, and I love my fancy tools, but sometimes in this, oh that's what made me think of it.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: I know you've, I think you have tried a lot of things here and if it's blowing tools up, it's blowing tools up, but sometimes it's like, wait a minute here. In this case, I'd rather just use the $9 end mill, replace it as needed than, know, the $100 end mill.
johngrimsmo: Mm-hmm.
johngrimsmo: And that's where we have been for the past 14 years, using a $24 Lakeshore ball mill and just eating them up.
John S: Yeah.
John S: Right.
johngrimsmo: um We use two different tools, one to rough, one to finish. The rougher definitely dies faster, but the finisher also dies. Now, the past week, since I lost all my grind mills, I'm using a DeBoer Tools, which is our local tool manufacturer in Toronto.
johngrimsmo: um Their T-mill line, which has a different grind, different substrate, different coating. And it's it's holding up quite nicely. like The finish tool is is holding up impressively well.
John S: Oh, good.
johngrimsmo: The rougher is still dying after eight blades. um
John S: Got it.
johngrimsmo: But like are we at the point now where it's like, well, fine, that works. And that's that's where I'm at as of today. It's like, fine, that works.
John S: Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Let's just run. Results are actually really good. Tool life is still garbage, but OK. We're making blades.
John S: Eight blades, though, roughing is probably over an hour or two in the cut.
johngrimsmo: Ah, that's a good question. Maybe five minutes per blade? Per side, so ten ten minutes per blade, yeah.
John S: Oh, that's it. 10 minutes, 8 minutes, 80 minutes. Yeah, hour and 20.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: I don't know. Maybe that's probably, I probably should have qualified my comment earlier about this host tool won't die because the hard build roughing cycle is 40 seconds.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah.
John S: But still, we've done countless of them and it's a beast.
johngrimsmo: Still.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John S: And you know, when a tool's going fail, you just know it's like, oh, this is know this thing still looks great.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
johngrimsmo: And we have the same line of end mill in our speedio, and it was in the current, doing our rask blades. Rough, hard milling material away, and it lasts for hundreds of minutes.
johngrimsmo: While not blowing out like the Norseman does, but just ah but just like wearing, like lightly wearing, rounding the edge kind of thing.
John S: Yeah, sure.
johngrimsmo: Like, yeah, it's probably time to replace it. Whereas on the Norseman, it's like, oh, it's time to replace. This is, I can't believe this is cutting.
John S: Maybe it is the fixture then.
johngrimsmo: Maybe it is. Same fixture we've been using forever.
John S: Well, you've had bad tool life forever.
johngrimsmo: a good point. So I did make a fixture for in the ROA um for the Speedio. I just haven't cut a blade on it yet because I'd have to reprogram the thing.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So I kind of want to...
John S: Right, right.
johngrimsmo: Maybe it is the fixture. don't know.
John S: Yeah, i mean, hard milling wants a stable environment.
johngrimsmo: It does. Mm-hmm.
John S: And those blades, I don't envy you. Those are suckers are thin. Hmm.
johngrimsmo: So we're getting good results. But yeah, there's a couple things in the air. Like, do I buy more grind mills? Do I coarser? Do I do it on the Speedio? But this is classic example of doing two things at once. Imagine if I go into the Speedio and I use the new fixture, but I also use the new grind mills.
John S: Nutella, yeah, sure, isolate.
johngrimsmo: And I'm like, oh, it works now all of a sudden. You know?
John S: Yeah, I hear you.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, isolate doing one at a time is interesting. And then in the Speedio, we could palletize it. We could run as many as we want. But with the grind mills, there is a finite life.
johngrimsmo: And I don't want it to die on the first one of the night when we've got 14 loaded.
John S: Oh, yeah, right, right.
johngrimsmo: And it won't know.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: That's kind of dangerous.
John S: Yeah, I love this grind mill idea. i also feels like something that can be side card tested, but also get a solution to working with a DeBoer.
johngrimsmo: Exactly. Yep, and that's what i'm that's what I'm doing right now.
John S: Yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: But I think I should be able to get...
johngrimsmo: dozens if not hundreds of blades out of a and of the right kind of grind mill that just does what it's meant to do. and I'm not pushing it too hard.
John S: yeah It's just bernishing, yeah.
johngrimsmo: I'm not loading it up. i'm not you know It should just work. The guys were saying that as the the CBN particles get duller over use, normal use, your finish improves.
johngrimsmo: It's burnishing, yeah exactly, which is kind of makes sense once you think about it, that when they're fresh and they're sharp and they're crispy, it's going to leave a you know more fractal finish that's all scratchy and stuff, and it'll just get better over time, which is kind of weird.
John S: Sure. Okay.
johngrimsmo: But then I was asking them, I was like, how you ah do you know when it stops getting better?
John S: Eh, it doesn't last forever. yeah
johngrimsmo: like Yeah.
John S: You'll know.
John S: ah Well, so I burnished a little yesterday on the machine.
johngrimsmo: What'd you do?
John S: Uh, I mean, I don't want say this is PSA, but the reality is it's just my mistake. There's no PSA. um I wanted to hard mill a circular pocket and I wanted the, I wanted a spiral tool path.
John S: I didn't want the 2d contour that has a linking move, uh, between concentric circles. I wanted it spiral to, but it starts in the middle and it just, it lolly, what's the term?
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: it spirals its way out.
johngrimsmo: yeah 2D Pocket, but exactly what you want, not...
John S: Hmm.
johngrimsmo: you can You can do that with 2D Pocket, right?
John S: Say again, you can, because i actually ended playing a bunch of ways. i But I chose and was relatively quickly able to use the spiral toolpath, um which is a 3D toolpath that again, often is used for three dimensional surfaces, but no problem at all.
johngrimsmo: Hmm...
John S: It worked sport great.
johngrimsmo: Not the radial toolpath, but the spiral toolpath.
John S: Radial tool bath would start the tool in the middle and it would move directly out in a radius, like a sunburst.
johngrimsmo: Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
John S: But I had the same thought because I was looking at it, was like, which one I want?
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: want spiral. um But I got bit. And this is the quote-unquote PSA aspect of it. there There are um holes in this pocket that are barely bigger than the tool that I didn't care about.
John S: it I just wanted it to go over all of them, ignore it.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, did it avoid them or something?
John S: it plunged in one let's say there's eight let's say there's eight holes all of the holes were offset from the tool path so that the tool path never went perfectly over the center line of the hole one of them it happened to line up and that stinking tool dove into the hole for like two thou and came back up out so yes you see it if you
johngrimsmo: oh
John S: toggle off the model and look at the tool bath, you can see it. It's also really easy to miss.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah.
John S: um And so I was standing at the machine and it did it. Fortunately, all it did was shove the face of a holder into the part about 30 thou friction welded for a split second.
johngrimsmo: Oh.
John S: I used to stop the machine before it even had an alarm, which is always horizontal.
johngrimsmo: Which machine? Yeah.
John S: Um, so I'm very grateful it wasn't worse than that, but in a little, I mean, look, it's on me. The fusion did not, it's not to blame for this, but man, like from an intelligence standpoint, this tool that perfectly flat spiral that's covering it's, you know, number numerous linear inches and there's two thou where it dives down into a hole back out.
johngrimsmo: No, of course.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: And it goes deep and deep enough to cause a problem.
John S: Uh,
johngrimsmo: I mean, is your holder properly dimensioned and did you simulate well enough that could have caught this?
John S: I will give you the straight up answer, which is that we rarely sim.
johngrimsmo: Sure. Yeah.
John S: I mean, this is two plus 2.5 access work, um, that,
johngrimsmo: interesting I think I always see him before I most of the time let's say you
John S: yeah, I should go back and look at it. Um,
John S: the the the If there's really one lesson learned, I think for me, it's like, I should have been more cautious with a toolpath I don't normally use. This wouldn't have happened. Like the 2D toolpaths are not model aware. So they are never gonna do something like this.
John S: Anything in the 2D menu, everything in the 3D menu, I know this, John, it's model aware.
johngrimsmo: you
John S: It's gonna do what it wants around the model. And I just wasn't thinking that. And again, I kind of got bit because if that hole, if the way the spiral step over happened, it never went over those holes, it would have never been an issue, which is arguably worse because then I would have used the tool path with confidence and I could have gotten a bit later.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John S: Whatever.
johngrimsmo: Interesting.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It happens. That's that's manufacturing.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John S: Yeah. The other sort of related point was the Arda guys who who are also the belt buckle guys.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, um austere.
John S: like What's the name of it?
johngrimsmo: Austere manufacturing.
John S: Thank you. Austere.
johngrimsmo: Uriel.
John S: Yeah. Yeah. Good guy, like good content, nice nice guy.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: um He was kind of asking if we wanted to try out Arda and I, to be totally honest, don't really note as much specifics about what it is or offers. I believe it's a sort of Kanban reordering software system.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: um My answer for better or worse is kind of like, hey, we have Lex, like it works like I don't not where I'm focusing time right now because we have systems for it. But he did ask, um how do you handle reordering kind of like the small, yeah small stuff, the little stuff?
John S: Well, I don't know what that could mean, but end mills or tooling or cardboard.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. yeah
John S: um And it got me thinking a little bit about it, and this is more of a reflection than it is perfection of a perfect workflow, but a lot of it's tribal, like, hey, Garrett runs a horizontal. He knows 2.014 is in a gridfinity bin. And if there's two left, the Lex ID is right there. He just adds more Lex. Like that system generally works.
John S: But I think what we've also done somewhat in a, wouldn't call it subconscious, but a unintentionally deliberate way is we've also made sure to heavily penalize suppliers that just don't work with us.
John S: So in other words, we tend to go to people that never run out of stock, that have quick shipping, um because that's been a key part because I don't want to,
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah.
John S: There's part of me that loves having enough on hand, but there's also a lot to be said for knowing, hey, I don't want to carry the cost of that. It's expensive to store tools. It's expensive to know where they are. And the reality is what would be better is if you knew in your business, everything you wanted, you could get it the next day or the day thereafter.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John S: And so companies like McMaster, most of the time MSCs, most of the time Sandvik for the Sandvik stuff we use. Sandvik can be terrible on weird size stuff. um you know most of those companies if i order it by three o'clock it's here the next day um and that's been very lakeshore i give them a hip lakeshore is almost always in stock on stuff um so i'm not sure what the point is there other than like that's i don't have to go out of my way to build as expensive or complicated as a system because i'm going to rely on on others
johngrimsmo: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Absolutely. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yes. Mm-hmm.
johngrimsmo: Hmm. Yeah, I know Uriel is very lean heavy and very um open minded to anything.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Sort of like Henry Holsters. They, you know, they have their own solutions and they're not saying they're right or wrong. They're just they're trying to flush them out to be the best possible thing that they are.
johngrimsmo: So they're they're always asking people for their advice and their opinions. And it's it's great to hear that.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: you know, them get your take on it so that maybe they can build it in or maybe they can ignore it or whatever into their system. And I've looked into it. It seems awesome. But it's, I've got GURP, you've got Lex.
John S: Yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: it's It's not everything I want it to be. But to adopt somebody else's system is also super weird.
John S: Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, and if we had nothing, I would, rob well, we had nothing, we would need an yeah ERP is the one answer. I guess I don't know if there's a good explanation about, and if he's listening, maybe he could put an Instagram up or something, sort of explain.
John S: If you don't have an ERP, does ARTA solve that as a stopgap for a small manufacturing company or machine shop?
johngrimsmo: Yeah, or what what does it solve and what does it not solve, you know?
John S: or Yeah, exactly. Right, right.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. And maybe for most small shops, um that's all you need.
John S: Right. Oh, if i was if I was a CJ or a solopreneur back in my days, like I kind of, it's the old e-myth, like ordering stuff took a lot of time to go open notepad files, Excel files, email old emails.
johngrimsmo: Definitely.
John S: And then remember one of the first tours I did at Jay Pearson, he was sort of showing how he had a email-based reorder system that he had a person write, like totally get that.
johngrimsmo: see Well, and back in 2018, 19, something like that, I was looking into ProShop pretty heavily, did the trial demo for a few months, did a bunch of did a bunch of you know webinar phone calls with them and the training and all that stuff.
John S: Yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: And super fascinating. I couldn't grip my head around it or my my business around it in a way, but I learned a lot and I learned how important it was to have all of our vendors listed in one place.
johngrimsmo: you know, where do we get all these tools? How much do we keep in stock? What's our minimums and maximums? And even even just that, I didn't have a system for it. It was all in my head, all in my emails because I was completely responsible for everything.
John S: Crazy, yep. Isn't
johngrimsmo: um And I was like, yeah, I know where we get titanium. I know where we get a three-eighths ball mill. I know where we get Koolan from.
John S: that funny?
johngrimsmo: you talk to Joe, he's the Koolan guy. um And that flipped my mind to be like, and to those people listening, like, It is so freeing to get that out of your brain and into a system, especially when you have more people involved, because now I am not responsible for the majority of our purchasing.
John S: Yes.
johngrimsmo: I still do most end mills. um I don't need to, but I currently do anyway. um And I do some stuff, but I'm probably only responsible for 20% of all purchases in this company, which is awesome.
johngrimsmo: And that is only because we've built out GERP to be like every vendor, the email, the phone number, the main contact, the address, a username and password, if it's applicable, all that stuff like ability for anybody in our company, you know, approved it.
johngrimsmo: do it
John S: If you buy something through GURP, does it email the PO to the address?
johngrimsmo: No, it creates the PO in GURP PDF. You can save it and send it to whoever.
John S: Okay. So somebody has to send it.
johngrimsmo: Yes. Yeah.
John S: Okay.
johngrimsmo: And there's actually a maybe one or two minute lag time from creating the PO for the PO o to sync through the Google services and create the purchase the the PDF.
John S: Huh.
johngrimsmo: It's just how the system works right now.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And we're used to it. It's fine. But it is kind of annoying. Yeah. Yeah.
John S: We, it's funny you talk about ordering end mills. I'll order are some tooling every now and then is like test stuff or or whatever. And that now creates more of a problem because it shows up in shipping and they're like, this isn't tied to a PO.
johngrimsmo: Exactly.
John S: Like what i mean, most people know it comes to me, but it's it's kind of, we've kind of fully inverted and it makes me laugh about like, it's actually,
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah.
John S: better for me. Like, so what I do is I usually forward the email to the shipping department and say, no, yeah, exactly.
johngrimsmo: So they have a heads up kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, I'll create POs for that stuff anyway. It's because we have a section in our POs called a quick item that is, it's not inventory, it's not whatever, and it literally says quick item and then brackets, do not abuse this, even though use it 90% of the time.
John S: Yeah.
John S: ah you Sure, sure.
johngrimsmo: Like almost all of them are that, but that's okay. um And then, so now Grayson is tracking, he's trying to categorize and create his own little spreadsheet for when tools are received is this high feet end mill, ball end mill, lathe insert, whatever.
johngrimsmo: And so that he can start to, I'm not exactly sure why they're doing it, but it's a log of all tools that are coming in kind of thing.
John S: Got it.
johngrimsmo: And they he'll come to me, you know, often and be like, This tool is not normal. I don't have a place for it.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It's not in our list.
John S: right
johngrimsmo: what What would you call it?
John S: Do you have a checks and balance system in place so that your accounting department doesn't pay for something unless somebody through GERP or some other the means confirms it was received?
johngrimsmo: We do have a receiving, pretty rigid receiving system in GURP. um So accounting can definitely see if it's come in or not. And i know I know over the past year or two, there's been a lot of back and forth between accounting and receiving, making sure that receiving receives things on the day that they come in.
John S: Okay.
johngrimsmo: It doesn't linger. It doesn't, you know.
John S: Yeah, right, right.
johngrimsmo: So i I don't know the exact answer to your question, but I know that there is a system in place that I don't think it's really a problem.
John S: Okay, yeah, that's fair.
johngrimsmo: But I think you're right. Yeah.
John S: Always wondered about that. Cause I mean, it's it's it's truly like I'm not involved at all
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: um But I do have a randomly, we use our bill pay through our bank. And so I have a randomly have a threshold set from years ago, which it's fine to leave it of a certain amount.
John S: And I more often than lately get notified that a amount transaction was made in that amount or above.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: But I mean, no, i don't have any, doesn't give me a heartburn. It's more just like, the Growth eats cash for breakfast.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John S: But we at some point probably should have ah system that doesn't allow an accounting invoice to get paid unless, unless like you need a you need it to not be something you check, but something that isn't even possible to do until it's confirmed received.
johngrimsmo: Sure. I mean, in that situation, you would tie accounting functions, QuickBooks or whatever into your ERP, which is next level.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um
John S: Yeah,
johngrimsmo: Whereas, I mean, most of our vendors are like many of them are probably pay up front. You just put in your credit card, you order the tools, they come whenever. Some of them are in net 30 for sure. Like not even net 30, they are, um we just have terms.
johngrimsmo: They send us an invoice every 30 days.
John S: yeah sure.
johngrimsmo: um Very rarely is there like an outstanding, we haven't paid that yet. Has it come in? You know, it's pretty straightforward.
John S: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: But also, not my problem.
John S: so Yeah. And this probably won't ever really be an issue for us, but I do have a lot of respect for recognizing the need for financial controls, period. Like, period.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John S: I'll rant for a quick second. Our old trash company um was, on I will name them, it was Wind Waste. And they bought the company we actually signed up, which was called Waste Away.
John S: And Wind Waste, as we started to look at it, were total, like, just, they, like, doubled the price. They never told us. Then they were sitting in, like, increases every month. And it ended up that The bill was ridiculous.
John S: And so I had somebody get a quote from a new company and the new company's quote was totally back to like half of the normal price without any gotchas. Like you to sign up for a one or two year contract, but that's not crazy abnormal when they're delivering ah dumpster.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Hmm.
John S: So. Then the wind waste folks tried to throw us a not small removal fee and then claim that it was part of our contract.
John S: And this is like six months ago.
johngrimsmo: two
John S: And it was basically like a, the, Yvonne, who handles a lot of stuff, just made it kind of go away. Well, then three days ago, their like internal collections department starts sending us nasty grams.
johngrimsmo: Bye.
John S: And again, i would and know part of this is just a funny rant. Part of it's also just like, no, like screw you. So they were like, I... was deliberately articulate. And I was like, I would need to see ah copy of the contract that, cause they were kind of like, oh yeah, we took it over. You, you signed up for that. And I'm like, okay, I'll need to see a copy of that. And she, she sent me the contract, which says nothing about the, the, any of those fees.
John S: And I said, right, I need to see the one that shows that. And then just an hour ago, it got escalated to a woman who wrote me back. It was a total shakedown. She's like, I'm going to have to escalate this to our special, whatever.
John S: This is, this is an annoying amount of money. It's not, it's not even a thousand dollars.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: And so then they call me and I'm kind of like, oh buck up, let's see what this is. And they're like, we've looked further into it and we've removed the fee. um But this is like, there's part of me that gets up on my soapbox because these companies prey on people um and it's wrong.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: And it's an industry that frankly is also notorious for that, but um it's a waste of my time. But yeah, don't know, sorry, end rant.
johngrimsmo: Hmm. Yikes.
johngrimsmo: Huh.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um i I've got one for you. So as a, I like to call myself a pretend engineer and a, you know, a self-taught machinist, right?
John S: hey ah Sure.
johngrimsmo: I have, I've missed critical things that a school-taught machinist will have would have learned or or dealt with or, know, I'm okay with that.
John S: Okay.
johngrimsmo: Totally okay with that. For example, the classic can't twist clamp, right?
John S: Okay.
johngrimsmo: I've, we we bought some a year ago, but I don't even use them. So I personally have like never really used them before, but I know it's such a classic machinist like thing. I had a need yesterday I'm like, you know, it would be perfect right now and would solve this problem. Exactly. Is that can't twist clamp.
John S: No, no.
johngrimsmo: So I go to round all my machinists and I was like, do you have one in your toolbox? Like and need like a one inch can't twist clamp. Cause, um, like, I'll explain why in a second. but And then Grayson, like I know he's got a candidate toolbox with some stuff he's acquired.
johngrimsmo: um And he's like, yeah, we have two. They're on the router holding down part of the table together.
John S: but
johngrimsmo: like We bought them and they're on the router.
John S: yeah
johngrimsmo: And I was like, oh, sweet. Can I borrow one? And had this set up where I wanted to measure our finished RAS candles are contoured on the top. So if you want to measure the inside features, you can't just slap it down on the granite because it'll rock.
John S: OK.
johngrimsmo: um if you want to measure the the depth of certain features or whatever.
John S: Yep.
johngrimsmo: And so I used to put it on putty and it kind of moves and you know it's good for very short term measurements. But was like, how do I do this for real? So I took a one, two, three block and I put it up on the two inch side.
johngrimsmo: and Then I took another one and I laid it on top. So you have a t and then I held the i clamp, the handle upside down to the overhang of the one, two, three block.
John S: ye
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Now, this is classic layout machinist stuff, but I haven't done a lot of this. And then I was able to use the twist clamp to clamp the handle onto the one-inch block.
John S: Sure.
johngrimsmo: And I was like, this is amazing.
John S: Yeah, absolutely. It was great, right?
johngrimsmo: Well, why don't I do this every day kind of thing? It was fantastic. And then it got me thinking more about one, two, three blocks because I just have the crappiest set of Asia, whatever, import ones that I've had since forever.
johngrimsmo: um And they're okay, but they're not. They're not what I would want. And then so some'm looking online, like what, you know, the good ones are actually a lot of hundreds of dollars to buy a set of, of nice one, two, three blocks.
John S: Yeah, they're not cheap.
johngrimsmo: And then Ox Tools and Renzetti have some good videos on how they made the Renzetti one, two, three blocks with like so nice with the screws that go through.
John S: Yep. So nice.
johngrimsmo: And Ox Tools has this amazing video.
John S: Yep.
johngrimsmo: And i was like, I want to make one, two, three blocks now.
John S: You should.
johngrimsmo: I should.
John S: There's probably a market for that.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Well, even just for us, for our internal needs, um not to sell.
John S: Oh, yeah.
johngrimsmo: But I'm thinking about it. And that was my you know yesterday kind of side quest was not the first time I've gone down this side quest. But I was talking with Angelo today about it. And he goes, yeah, when when I was an apprentice, that was our first job like in in trade school.
johngrimsmo: you know the The first day, we learned how to file metal. The second day, we started making one, two, three blocks.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And he's like, I made a set.
John S: know this
johngrimsmo: we We could absolutely make them here. We have the Okamoto. Like, it'd be amazing. like
John S: No, the screwing together on those is bueno.
johngrimsmo: um And that would have helped me yesterday doing my measurement thing. And if it's like, if you have them and you know how to use them, you'll use them often or more often.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: If you don't have them and don't know what they're really good for, you just, you'll just have this gaping void in your life of not being able to do things properly.
John S: Yeah.
John S: Yeah.
John S: There's some funny story. I mean, first of all, I actually will say the quote unquote China, well, they probably are China, one, two, three blocks. They're a great value. I mean, they are, every type pair I bought, they are spot on.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: And for the price, it's insane. If you want to cue, what was it? Luma Labs kind of rant on China's industrial war over the last 30 years.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John S: There's um probably some truth to that, but ah it is, there's some funny story that I don't remember exactly, but it's almost like they got made the way they're made. because somebody misunderstood the intent.
John S: So I wanna say it's like on those China blocks, one whole one hole is tapped, the other hole is not tapped, but the hole that's not tapped was supposed to be bigger for the next size up as a through has or pass or something.
johngrimsmo: yeah yeah
johngrimsmo: But it's not.
John S: It's never been, and it's like just never been fixed.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John S: It's kind of like comical, like, oh, oops.
johngrimsmo: Exactly. So you can't really bolt one to the next, but they they are threaded holes and ours are inch threaded holes, 516ths or whatever, which I don't have any of that hardware in stock.
John S: Yeah, exactly.
John S: Oh, yeah, right, right.
johngrimsmo: So i have I have one screw that actually threads into it and it's useless. um They are useful for those strap clamp um kits.
John S: Yeah, sure.
johngrimsmo: Like the... don't what they're called, but...
John S: Yeah, sure, perhaps.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, um I don't have a set of that anymore. I think I sold it with my Tormac when I sold that. So I don't have that.
John S: I'd almost be, you'd almost be better off if you wanted to go play by the China solid sets. We buy these as grinding artifacts, like to test grind.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: Yeah. Cause they're cheap and then we can grind down to measure and not care about them.
johngrimsmo: Sure.
John S: um But I would start with those and buy the, Oh, who's the whirly jig, the hard mill, thread mill that Rob and those guys talk about all the time.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, the Dixie Tool or whatever, yeah.
John S: Dixie. Thank you. And then just hard mill the features you want into them.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Interesting.
John S: you know
johngrimsmo: Yeah, but doing the Renzetti blocks, I was thinking, how on earth are they milling down a two... I found on Thingiverse or whatever, one of the maker sites, like there are plastic one, two, three blocks of the Renzetti style that people have put together and you can print.
John S: No way. Oh, that's funny.
johngrimsmo: And all the comments are like, yeah, these are accurate so like 2000.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: That's fine. That's great for setup work.
John S: for Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It's a 3D printed Renzetti one, two, three block. Kind of thing.
John S: It's funny.
johngrimsmo: So one of them has a CAD file.
John S: Yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: I brought it to Fusion. I'm like, now I can, without having to make it myself, I now have the CAD file to see what it looks like. And one of the counterbores is 2.75 inches deep of three-eighths diameter.
johngrimsmo: And like, you could drill it, but you'd kind of want to mill it so it has a flat bottom.
John S: Oh,
johngrimsmo: And I'm like, that's a kind of deep hole to mill.
John S: flat, dude, flat bottom drills.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John S: We use these ah all, we use them a lot.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, sorry. didn't get that far, but.
John S: Yeah. I hope in a hundred years when we're all gone, somebody's on whatever three d printing site of the day is, it's like, oh yeah, who that Renzetti guy from the last century.
johngrimsmo: Yep, yep.
John S: Cause he's the, he's the one, somebody that deserves to have that. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Cool.
John S: I turned Johnny Five on last night for the first time ever.
johngrimsmo: Define.
John S: so left and right track drive have a total of eight batteries all these wiring the wiring goes through the the center tube to connect the left battery packs to the right battery packs because it's 12 plus 12 gives you the 24 volts for the whole system so there are i mean it's a ton of wiring and circuit boards fuses relays disconnects safety features um you can kind of see um let me tell me about a month to just to get this wiring done and then i realized
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Jeez. Yeah.
John S: I was like, oh my God, there is no re I mean, I could do some continuity checks with a multimeter, but basically i realized I just have to turn them on and know that, I mean, if you, if the fuse blows, hopefully it will blow because ah don't really, you know, wire can also become a fuse, but it's a lot less fun.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John S: Um, so I got a fire extinguisher and means he's in my house too. And I'm like, crap, I never really never thought about this. um And actually flip the switch, nothing happened.
John S: And I realized that one of the connections in the toe tip had come undone. So I'd have a friend come over because it's so awkward and cumbersome to just, just assemble that part of him, um fix that and then flip the switch and, and the power's on.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John S: So next up is literally tonight. I'll hook up. It's funny. You mentioned RC earlier. I've never done anything RC from scratch, but I have the RC.
johngrimsmo: Now you have an error. Johnny Five.
John S: Oh no, it's got like the, it's a frisky X 20. Like it's a legit like helicopter style transmitter.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John S: I have the receiver. I got them working with a hobby servo on their own. so now I'd have to look that into the track system and then I'll be able to jive drive Johnny five around.
johngrimsmo: Oh, that's so exciting.
John S: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: man.
John S: Yeah. It's really cool.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, I know that feeling well of like, especially working on cars back in the day, rewiring everything, new engine. You like you have that moment. You're like, I think it's ready to turn on. Is it ready? I don't know.
johngrimsmo: Like, and you just have to cross that bridge.
John S: yeah Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, what do you do?
johngrimsmo: you have to be like, all right, what could go wrong? I got my fire extinguisher. Like, ah let's try it. And then nothing happens. you Okay, hold on.
John S: Yeah. yeah Yeah. Yeah. So I felt good.
johngrimsmo: Good for you, man. That's super exciting.
John S: Awesome.
johngrimsmo: I know that's been a decade in the works.
John S: Seven. i' forget. I have to look up the time. I think 2018 was when we first started working on him.
johngrimsmo: It's awesome.
John S: Yeah. Really, really happy with it.
johngrimsmo: Cool. All right, bud.
John S: See next week.
johngrimsmo: See you next week.
John S: Take care.
johngrimsmo: Bye.
