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"The Wrong Flank" ACN Pod 102
53 Plays2 years ago
It's a busy a month ahead with 24 points to play for - Clare & McG join the boys to look ahead to a packed 5 weeks, with 4 home games + 4 away games which will show us what #ncfc are really made of. Also, how come being 2nd in the league isn't enough for some people...?
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Transcript
Introduction and October Overview
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Norwich podcast, an often ostentatious, occasionally off-colour opine or two on the outrageous, opulent life of Oberlinglory City. Today, John and I are joined by Clare and Mcgee to chat Blackpool and a busy October. Let's have at it.
Sargent's Improvement and Recognition
00:00:38
Speaker
Firstly, Mcgee, let's put September to bed. Sargent was Player of the Month. Any arguments with that, or anyone you think could feel hard done by as we hurtled up to second?
00:00:50
Speaker
I mean, several people can feel hard done by. I think it was the right call, partly because of the goals, but partly also because of the contrast with last season. It was quite a miserable season for him and the way he's adapted to this division and the way he's
00:01:09
Speaker
you know, forced Team Ibuki out of the team has just been really, really enjoyable. He has been joyful. And that's a big part for me. It's not just the goals going in, but also the happiness that he has generated. But as a whole, you know, it hasn't been
00:01:28
Speaker
the most exciting charge up the division that we've ever had, but it's hard to argue with the points tally and the results that we've got. I'm sure we'll come on to talk about why no one's deliriously joyful about that, but the team has been solid and I think there's a few people that will feel a little bit hard done by and hopefully that will kick them on when we get back on Saturday.
Pookie's Form and Nunez's Role
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to talk about Pookie. Claire, I actually think he's looking as sharp as he's looked since the last promotion campaign in the last couple of appearances, whilst I don't think we've served him anything like as well as we can. His hunger and his desire and his agility seems to be right up. I don't know if you've noticed similar. Yeah, I think him getting that first goal was a huge weight off his shoulders and he just sort of flipped back into being
00:02:19
Speaker
teamu puki that we know certainly really on it and the scoring the goals that we sort of recognise as as puki goals you feel like every time he gets put through he's gonna he's gonna be able to score he probably just needs to be put through a lot more unfortunately he's not not happening at the moment but
00:02:36
Speaker
I think he still does miss Emi a lot. We haven't found that replacement as yet but he is doing remarkably well considering the way we are playing and definitely a positive year. One person who at the start of September I would have thought was in the running for player of the month and sadly I think
00:02:58
Speaker
had no chance of winning it by the end, was Nunez. And the reason I bring him up now was because of that kind of Emmy replacement requirement, or Steepy replacement requirement, to set up Pookie for those goals. You know, that off-the-shoulder, last-minute run, Slippy inside.
Nunez's Adaptation Challenges
00:03:17
Speaker
And I actually think Kieran Dowell, I know Nunez has played one of those balls, and I know Ramsey has played maybe two, but definitely one of those balls.
00:03:25
Speaker
but we don't seem to be able to do it regularly. So, Punt, what do you think about Nunez? Do you think maybe he flattered to deceive to start with? There's definitely, I think, been a drop in his performances the last couple of weeks. Yeah. I mean, I think it's difficult because the division may have worked him out as well. If you looked at Norwich's first three or four performances with him in a yellow or tie-dye shirt or whatever we were wearing that weekend, he was the man.
00:03:54
Speaker
He was very quickly within 15, 20 minutes. He was the man who Norwich City played through. And it doesn't take long for opposition managers to work that out and then to go right nullify him. And then Norwich have to find a different way. And Emi was too good a player. You couldn't nullify him at this particular level. But Nunez is definitely going to take a period of time to get used to England and to get used to the way in which Norwich play.
00:04:20
Speaker
but he's clearly supremely talented. So we see flashes of it. I mean, he put in Pookie for, I think it was the Coventry goal, wasn't it? Where he kind of won the ball high up the pitch. It was very MES and then he puts him in and it's a simple finish for Timu. But I just think we need to be, it's difficult with him that he played so well for the first month, shall we say, and then actually people have started to recognise that they need to,
00:04:49
Speaker
to crack down on him. But ultimately, that creates gaps for other players, doesn't it? I mean, Aaron actually, as Nunez has dropped off, and as much as I don't think Aaron Ramsey has been as good as maybe some people have made out that he has been, he's found pockets of space. He started to assist Pookie a lot more.
00:05:07
Speaker
And I think it will provide opportunities for other players when teams have to be focused on perhaps your most talented creative spark. So I think you'll get there. It's interesting, Adam Brandon was kind of saying on our group chat about how he hasn't really put in the performances for his national side either. So maybe he is going through a period where he's fatigued or he's low on confidence, or as I say, people are just trying to shut him down because they recognise what kind of player he is.
Sarah's Performance and Expensive Players
00:05:34
Speaker
But he's really young and he's definitely
00:05:36
Speaker
going to get there I think for me perhaps more the the bigger disappointment has been Sarah because he doesn't you know apart from a couple of you know kind of fleeting 20 minute cameos when actually there's been plenty of time and space on the pitch he hasn't really looked anywhere near what you'd expect off a record signing and I hope with him it is just again him adjusting to the culture adjusting to the way in which we play because otherwise it's going to be another
00:06:03
Speaker
Norrie City record signing which has turned out to be spectacularly bad and I was having this conversation. His set pieces are amazing though, like the corners are really top quality, better than we've had for a while I think. Yeah I'd say that's fair, I'd say his set piece delivery has been pretty good but I think, I don't know, I hate the record signing tag going over any Norrie City player's neck because
00:06:32
Speaker
It doesn't work out well ever, does it? We only have to look at the evidence of Ricky Mumbleswinkle and Stephen Naismith and Christoph Solis and Mila Roshitsa. Someone said to me the other day, the last time Norwich spent big money, and it went well, and we mean big money for Norwich, was Dean Ashton. And I really struggled to find a player before that, or sorry, after that.
00:06:56
Speaker
that we've spent significant amounts of money on and we've done well with. I think it's to do with the level of expenditure as well. It's almost like when we try and stretch ourselves and spend a bit more,
00:07:07
Speaker
We have to go at the very, very bottom end of the next bracket up, if you see what I mean? Once we start to get into the two, when we start to spend money in the teens, probably what we're doing is buying players who should be in the high single million figures instead of the teens figures. I want to pick you up on something you said about freeing up space.
00:07:33
Speaker
I think we need to find a way of getting Campwell, Nunez and Dowell on the pitch at the same time to give opposition teams a real difficulty in trying to mark our creative players out of the game.
Midfield Strategies: Cantwell, Nunez, Dowell
00:07:48
Speaker
And I don't think we've, for me, that's an obvious combination he should try. Part of I think the reason I think Zara can be given a bit of a pass so far is that
00:08:01
Speaker
why would he have started? We keep winning. He hasn't needed, other than a couple of times when a set piece was needed and he delivered it, we haven't really needed him to be that kind of dynamic and progressive with the ball. So yeah, I think, so in spite of the fact that we're on this undefeated run, I think we need to try those three as the three behind Pookie. What say you, Michy?
00:08:28
Speaker
I say, and you're not going to like this, but I say the only way we can do that is if we've got someone better than Kenny behind them. And that really requires Isaac Hayden to get rid of his injury and be as good as everyone thinks he can be. But not to hark back, but if we had skip behind those three, you'd feel really confident about them kind of doing whatever they wanted to do.
00:08:54
Speaker
in exactly the way you talked about, but we just don't have that. If Isaac Hayden is as good as Olly Skip or anywhere close to it, then I think it could work, but it's not working with who we've got behind them at the moment. Well, Gibbs is back in training today.
00:09:07
Speaker
So that's a real positive. Connor tweeted that we were recording this on Thursday the 29th of September at 1.11pm. I think that the issue with the Kenny love and hate Marmite is that he hasn't actually done
00:09:28
Speaker
Um, he hasn't done anything, uh, badly wrong in comparison to any other members of the team. So he's given the ball away as many times as literally anyone else. I mean, Byron was almost seemed to be Byron almost did the most misplaced plasters of the month on his own in one, in one half.
00:09:48
Speaker
two home games ago and catastrophic attempts to play out from the back. So Kenny's given the ball away, Kenny's made a few mistakes, but Kenny's also mopped up for other people's mistakes a huge number of times. And I just think that you hit the nail on the head there, there isn't anyone else. So you almost have to give them too much of a problem
Norwich's Strategy and Squad Potential
00:10:10
Speaker
to for that to be an issue i.e if you had i think our three best players behind pookie are dal um uh or or um or sergeant if he's playing on his own as a nine are dal um and unies and uh the other fellow i said whose name i can't remember already campwell um and you have to find a way of getting them into the 11 you've got to find a way of putting your best players on the pitch and
00:10:35
Speaker
whether that's playing 4-4-2, whether that's playing a diamond with two at the top of it, that's for Smith to try and find out. But it was interesting in his presser, he said about how if things really click, I'd be worried if I was the opposition, because if things really click, they could get battered. And I do agree with that. I still think that
00:10:58
Speaker
If anything, it's a huge compliment to Norwich that Norwich fans think we haven't got out of first gear and we're in second place. It's a compliment to the quality of the squad that we can do it for about seven or eight minutes over 90 and that's enough to get past teams.
00:11:12
Speaker
If he found a way of actually getting our best players playing relatively well in a format that created chances of a high XG regularly, I think we would start seeing four, five goal results. What about you, Claire? Do you think it's a personnel thing, a system thing? What is holding us back from playing football that's actually entertaining for more than 10 minutes?
00:11:36
Speaker
I think if you take us back a few games to when we had, even had Kenny at left back, but had Gibbs in the midfield, we were playing a lot better. And dare I say, when Timu wasn't in the team, and Josh was up front on his own, we were playing a lot better. We're still getting the same results. But I think the football was a lot more entertaining. And
00:12:02
Speaker
I know a lot of people don't seem to think we've got an identity but we looked like we had some sort of identity then. You could see what we were trying to do. So I think actually maybe just getting a fit left back back or Gibbs coming back and then maybe even Kenny going back into left back position because I think he actually did really well there. That might make things click again but I do think
00:12:25
Speaker
yeah having Kenny and Nunez in the middle isn't really working and there's just I don't know something is lacking the creativity something I don't know but I think having Gibbs back will be a huge boost I'm not putting any hope on Hayden ever appearing so yeah Liam Gibbs looks like he's coming back pretty soon so fingers crossed that actually changes things up and we start performing a lot better but we are still winning so if we're winning and not playing well then that's
00:12:54
Speaker
I can't complain about that. I think we've got to accept that it's not going to be as entertaining and as beautiful as it was, but we simply have got a better squad than the vast majority of the championship and that might just see us through.
Fan Expectations and Team Identity
00:13:10
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think if nothing changed in terms of style and entertainment factor, I do think it would see us through. I mean, we're a good number of games in now that it's not flashing the pan season. It's not just getting off to a fast start. It's not, oh, you've only played the easy teams. You know, that isn't the case. It's clear that it's clear that Norwich and also you look at the pattern of the games, right? Regularly.
00:13:40
Speaker
If it hasn't worked, we've gone, oh, look at these five lads we can bring on. Yeah, that's better than what you can bring on, isn't it? Yeah, we've got more than you. And we've sort of seen games out from that point of view. On the personnel thing, I would love to see Gibbs back in the team. I agree with Claire. The bit of this season I've enjoyed the most was the bit where Gibbs was there. And I agree as well. I personally wouldn't have any problem with having Kenny left back.
00:14:07
Speaker
because I don't think Byron really offers anything more than Kenny does there. However, I can't see Smith changing it until we get our first defeat as in of this run. Yeah, I mean, I think hard agree with the fact that Kenny at left back actually was probably his best position that he's played for Norwich this season or it is where he's played best. Definitely hard agree with that. I think you're being a little bit harsh on Sam Byron. I think he's
00:14:35
Speaker
He's been asked to deputise in a position which, you know, he's on the wrong flank. I think he's done relatively well. That's kind of my point. My point is he looks like he's out of position. He's given it his best shot. But I think he's doing really, really well. I think he's doing really well. And I think the difficulty for both of our full backs actually right now is there's not an awful lot in front of them. So if we look at it and go, right, well, it's
00:14:59
Speaker
Campbell usually playing the left-hand side or Sarah playing the left-hand side of the three ahead of the four, if we're playing 4-3-3. It doesn't seem to be either a lot of protection or a lot of natural width that's being offered in that respect. And similarly out on the right, you have Nunez who typically, a bit like Emme, wants to play quite centrally and be a playmaker, or you've got Sargent who
00:15:23
Speaker
just isn't a right winger. So I think that's difficult. I just wanted to come back to you saying we haven't had easier games. I think we have had a really, really favourable start. If you look at the opposition that we've played in the first 10, and yeah, 10 is a really good barometer in terms of the amount of games and league position, but I think we've played a half of the division that
00:15:46
Speaker
we would definitely have wanted to have started with and I think the next 10 games for Norwich probably shapes our season. I think that's where we find out what we're made of because when we come up against the likes of the Burnleys or the Watford's or the Sheffield United's or even the Middlesbroughs and actually Wes Brom, who Wes Brom have been playing really well this season without getting results, let's face it, I mean that performance was dour, it was absolutely
00:16:14
Speaker
I mean, the worst of the season, I think that we've seen. And I don't want to be too negative because, you know, play is absolutely right. You know, we're second in the league. We are scoring goals and picking up points without playing particularly well. And it could all clip, but I don't, I guess what I don't see is phases of play or
00:16:34
Speaker
pockets of player, really good play for say like 20, 25 minutes where we really turn it on. What I see is we turn it on for, as you've just said Tom, seven, eight minutes, or there's two or three moments of real individual quality in games rather than us, I don't know, show signs that we can put together a performance over 45 or 90 minutes. That's not there for me yet under Smith. And we could get there and it could be that
00:17:00
Speaker
a defensive midfielder, someone like Isaac Hayden, or if we have to bring in someone in the window because Hayden has just broken, you know, that might fix it all. But I don't know. And also putting it on Gibbs, putting it on a 19 year old shoulders to kind of come in and magically fix it all. Speaks to me of, again, a failure of recruitment, because is Isaac Hayden the only show in town in terms of a defensive midfielder? I know you could look at Sooneson and then maybe go, well, he was the backup and he's injured too. But
00:17:30
Speaker
We looked at him in the Championship before and no one ever really looked at him and thought he was going to be a capable defensive midfielder. He was a utility player that did well at full back or centre back. So I don't know. I think to me it feels like we've got too good a personnel and too good a squad to not be in the top six and it would be a complete failure if we didn't finish in the top six.
00:17:55
Speaker
but I'm just not sure that we've got a massively balanced squad and that's what worries me. I don't think they had as much change turnover as they either expected or would have liked. I think they would have hoped that more moved on or had the appetite to move on.
00:18:12
Speaker
Um, or better offers were available for, for it. Um, it does seem a bit lopsided our squad. Um, particularly when it comes to trying to fit the right people in the right position. So, you know, Smith was always bullish about we're keeping team, team is going to be here. And, um,
00:18:28
Speaker
that the issue you've got there is unless you're going to play a two, you have to play Sargent out of position, or you don't have on the pitch your kind of best finisher at this level, or, you know, I would argue in my time I've seen just pure, you know, give me anyone, give me Hulk, give me Sutton, give me Fleck. If it's a one-touch finish inside 18 yards, there is not an Orange City player that I would rather be on the end of that chance than Timmy Pukey.
00:18:58
Speaker
Um, he's just, he's just got that knack in a way that, you know, the, those other before mentioned players were brilliant as well at finishing. Of course they were, but he's just got that, that X factor of just being a pure finisher. Um, and so I do think that's a problem that he has, but it's again, I w there's been talk about, you know, people shouldn't be moaning and it's not moaning or being negative to say, I'm happy to be.
00:19:25
Speaker
in the top part of the league. But I can see elements of our game that a better team will pull apart.
October Fixtures and Home Form
00:19:33
Speaker
And we have benefited from errors, defensive errors in our favor.
00:19:38
Speaker
which we've capitalized on, that you think without those defensive errors, we may well have a lot fewer points. Likewise, you can also argue that we've given away via defensive errors goals that have made games closer than they needed to have been. So I guess that goes both ways. Mcgee, this is a really, really busy period. Looking at the October, it's a really nice for home, for away, excuse me, slate,
00:20:08
Speaker
So we've got Blackpool Preston, Luton Stoke at home, Reading Watford, Sheffield United, Burnley away. Now that is a, for me, both league table and on paper, that is a, you've got to look after your home form there to still have any chance in November, wouldn't you say?
00:20:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the thing is that we have had a reasonably friendly start to the season, but you read through those, those teams. And, you know, you'd have to think that the only real danger is Burnley, even with the team playing
00:20:49
Speaker
at its best for only 20 minutes of the 90. This is a division with the squad we've got, being able to put on five substitutes. The only team there that you'd think, well, fair enough, Bernie of Dunas 2-0 or whatever, that's fair enough. Any of the other teams should be really disappointed with the loss. No, they're not easy games. They're not easy games. Chef all generated at the top of the league.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair enough. Sorry. I got, I've got blackboard on my mind. That's fair enough. Only and Sheffield United. That's a really good show. It depends. It depends on the results between now and then. So I mean, if, if we went to Sheffield, if we were going to Bramble Lane this weekend, I would take a draw now, but in three, you know, they might, they, or we.
00:21:31
Speaker
may suffer a defeat, a couple of draws, and all of a sudden that game doesn't seem quite as much. They've got a similar thing to us in terms of momentum and a really good run going. I'd be astonished if both teams have lost the same number of games that they've lost now, if you see what I mean, by the time we meet them, because we meet them towards the end of the month.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is, we can be any team in this division, even without playing our absolute best. I'd be disappointed not to get a point against Sheffield United, even at the moment. I'd be disappointed to lose against Burnley. Both of those, you wouldn't kick off about it. The others, you'd be absolutely guided not to take all three points. And I think that says, but to be honest, I think that says much more about the division than it says about Norris City.
00:22:25
Speaker
I think you're right and this is fundamental disconnected feels at the moment between the team and the fans around.
00:22:36
Speaker
and the atmosphere, and it's all wrapped up in the same thing. We expect to win, so therefore it almost feels like there's a bit less jeopardy involved in even going a goal behind. We were coasting a couple of home games ago, and we were getting restless, and you could see the players were kind of shouting at each other and getting cross with each other.
00:22:59
Speaker
You know, Max properly shouting at Josh for not offering anything other than just sort of standing facing him on the right flank. And we're just like, yeah, I know we're winning. So just keep the ball. They're not they're not they're not coming to try and get the ball off us that, you know, Coventry, this is at home.
00:23:16
Speaker
You know, so we're tuning it up. Why bother, why bother sort of trying to turn it on at all? Cause clearly this is going to tune in. There's already going to be enough. And you know, it, that is the element. I think that it's almost that intangible. We don't seem to have players who want to keep playing at a high tempo. And I think a lot of it is tempo rather than style. I really do think tempo is the major thing with Smith. We do seem to move the ball slowly.
00:23:45
Speaker
unless it's a long ball. The number of balls that are at players or just behind players is too high and that does seem to be a smithing. I'm sure he's not telling them to pass behind their colleagues, of course he isn't. But do you see what I'm coming from, Punt? The whole attitude seems to just be do just enough at all times and only really go for the juggler when it's very, very clearly available. Yeah, I think that's a really good...
00:24:16
Speaker
the word that you've just used their tempo really resonated with me. And I don't often, you know, kind of absolutely wholeheartedly agree with you. So let's just get it on record now that I do. But yeah, we we don't play a particularly high tempo. And I think Norwich, Norwich have been prone to trying to manage games. And I know we've been accused of not being able to manage games in the past.
00:24:38
Speaker
that's kind of spectacularly failed for us but at the moment I think we're all almost trying to overly manage games and it could bite us you know kind of in the next few weeks I don't know what the answer is I think as you say you know kind of maybe an injection of tempo maybe someone like Liam Gibbs coming in and actually he seems to want to play forward balls you know kind of with a bit more
00:25:03
Speaker
frequency than, you know, say Kenny or even Nunez, you know, kind of he wants to kind of get the team on the front foot and he wants, you know, the attacking players to get on the ball and to take it to the opposition. I really like that from him. And I think just sometimes the exuberance of youth helps with that. You know, there's a fearlessness, isn't there? Well, you mentioned putting it on the shoulders as a 19 year old. I don't want to, but equally it was 19.
00:25:28
Speaker
But he was a freak, wasn't he, for this level, let's be honest. I don't think Gibbs is anywhere near in Olly Skip's stratosphere as yet. No, don't talk him down. Remember these days, if you accurately notice flaws, that's talking down, remember, you're talking him down.
00:25:50
Speaker
Well, what I'm saying is I don't wish to put undue pressure on a young man who's done very well for Norris City Football Club. I do. And we wish to... That's his career trajectory. Not like you to be totally binary about the situation, Tom.
00:26:07
Speaker
But I think the point that you make about tempo is a really important point because we don't play with that often enough. And it does feel sometimes that lots of our play is really laboured and it is individual quality that's getting us out of jail.
00:26:24
Speaker
It just, it feels like there's a formula there. It feels like there's enough talented players who've all got different qualities to put it all together. But I just don't think Smith has stumbled upon a system or the right set of personnel yet. And it is almost that he's got, as you say, five get out of jail free cards on the bench every game. So it's all going to be fine. And I think what we're told regularly.
00:26:47
Speaker
by the management of Norrie City and the executive team is that we've got an exceptional coach. I'm not sure we've got an exceptional coach right
Critique of Dean Smith's Coaching
00:26:54
Speaker
now. What I think we have is a, I'm not going to use the word exceptional, but a very good in-game manager, someone who can recognise what's going on in the pitch and change it. I think he's done that very, very well. I think he should be given lots and lots of credit for that. But I'd like to see
00:27:12
Speaker
a bit more from the starting 11s that he's putting out with a bit more regularity.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think I made that point on Twitter a few weeks ago, like surely it's obvious to any manager that you would bring Teemu Pukki and Todd Cantwell off the bench and that they could have a positive effect and change the game. I could do that. You know, it's not rocket science, but
00:27:46
Speaker
I agree with John. I think he does read the game very well and knows when to react, which was something that you could say Daniel Farka didn't do that often. But yeah, I don't know. I don't think he's not a good coach. I think when you look at the Aston Villa fans, they're actually lamenting his
00:28:09
Speaker
Parch is still saying that now you know they don't have an identity and we're saying that we don't have an identity with him so he must be a pretty decent manager but I think he just has something just hasn't clicked as yet and but yeah he knows when to change the game and he's not afraid to do it and he's not afraid to bring on all of the subs
00:28:32
Speaker
And it's worked so far. It's definitely got us out of jail, but it will do because we have got that quality on the bench. So I think it's probably a bit of both.
Team-Fan Connection Issues
00:28:41
Speaker
He knows when to react, but we've also got that quality that's always going to help change the game, I think. A couple of things for you to ponder on, MacGee. When things weren't going so well, you know, when it was quite a bleak start, early season,
00:29:01
Speaker
We were told that the lack of togetherness that there seemed to be on the pitch, the lack of togetherness between the players and the fans would come right with wins, and wins is the sort of thing that breeds that kind of enjoyment and that feel-good factor.
00:29:14
Speaker
we've had loads of wins now and it still to me feels like the players don't seem to really, I mean other than Nunez who's had it living his best life like a massive smile on his face the whole time and that is wonderful, no one else seems to be really having a nice time and the wins seem to be celebrated in a very rudimentary
00:29:35
Speaker
sort of slight ripple of applause amongst the players. Smith still stands rooted to his dugout and isn't interested in interacting with any elements of Carrow Road at all. So what are we missing? The second point I was going to say to that is I also saw it mentioned that when the games mean a bit more, when it's clearer that, oh, we're seven wins away from secure in promotion, then it might feel a bit more like there's more in line.
00:30:03
Speaker
In both cases, I think, no, I can't think of a time when there's ever been Norwich winning this many times in a row when I've, I've cared so little and I feel awful even saying it, but I just, I celebrate the goals. I get cross at the referees. I'm just, I'm angry when we concede. All of that is still exactly the same. I don't cheer any less, but, but the, the sort of the feeling of make it, make it make sense to me.
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think the other person living their best life judging by his TikToks is O'Neal Hernandez, who looks happier than he has been since the first time he went into an Argos. But apart from that, I think your analysis is spot on. And I think there's a few things. The first thing is expectations. We are not surprised. The thing that was so exciting about 1819 was the contrast between our expectations and what we were achieving. And it was that triumph against
00:31:02
Speaker
expectation that was so exciting. This is the third time of asking and we kind of expect to be up there and that doesn't give people as much of a buzz. Secondly, Norwich fans expect to be entertained and I don't think that we are being consistently entertained throughout the 90 minutes. Now you can say that's bad and a win's a win and what are you complaining about but
00:31:24
Speaker
I go to cheer on the team and to be excited by what I see on the pitch. I don't cheer on a league table. I want us to be at the top of it, but that's not what gets me going. I think there's a couple of other things. The other thing is that the relationships between the fans and the club have broken down. There's no point pretending that Stewart Webber
00:31:45
Speaker
taking a dump all over anything we've said in national media interviews is going to have no impact whatsoever. Now, he doesn't need to care about that. He doesn't have to. And he's been quite clear that he doesn't. But you can't turn around and then be surprised that there is an impact to that. It's OK that Dean Smith is not a people person, kind of a fan favorite coming over and getting us all going.
00:32:10
Speaker
um if he doesn't want to be that's not in his job description it's not what he gets paid for but don't be surprised if the lack of a relationship means there is less enthusiasm in the stands but i also think there's an element of just just modern football you know we've been up to the premier league uh twice with the same results both times and the problem isn't us the problem is football the problem is man city can bring on a sub
00:32:35
Speaker
and the 80th minute is worth more than our entire squad and then some and it's getting worse not better and I think there's just an element of what are we doing what is the point of this and you know I don't think it's turning people off football entirely but again you can't pretend that that's not a bit of a factor what is exciting about winning the championship that'd be exciting to win the championship but then we've got to go through the turgid you know trudge through getting bad again
00:33:03
Speaker
I think we probably will. Part of that, exciting to win the championship. In the first time around of this little run, you were as excited for the players and that kind of group and you felt like we were all in it together and you were excited for their experience and for how much it seemed to be meaning to them, as well as it being novel and unexpected.
00:33:29
Speaker
The middle one, everything was so bleak and awful. And yes, it would have been nice if we could have watched more of the games in person. But my goodness me, wasn't it nice to actually have that as a distraction, be able to log on to your laptop and watch Norwich put seven past someone. That was a very nice distraction from how bleak life was in lockdowns and what have you. And I think this time around, that's a real issue for me.
00:33:53
Speaker
We've all got players that we like and those that we haven't built much of a kind of rapport with. I really root for Todd. We all love Pookie. And Josh seems like a nice lad. Nuna seems like a nice lad. But as a group, as a sort of togetherness, I don't know.
00:34:18
Speaker
It almost feels like it's so hard to put your finger on it, but I can't feel a hunger and a togetherness. I don't see that togetherness on the pitch and the way they celebrate goals, the way they celebrate wins. I don't see that, the way that I've seen it with squads past, and not even just promotion squads. You know, squads that have finished mid-table but have really loved playing together.
00:34:45
Speaker
What do you think, John? Are we trying to define something that doesn't need to be defined and we should just get over it? No, no, I think you're on to something. Again, you know, I'm surprising myself by agreeing with you so readily on this podcast. Don't make it happy. It'd be boring, listen. Yeah, less not. A whole brand will be off, mate. But it's, I don't know, there's not
00:35:07
Speaker
a massive likability factor to this squad like there has been with previous squads and I think some of it 18-19 and to a lesser extent 2021 as well is that the team was more than the sum of its parts.
00:35:24
Speaker
And I'm not necessarily sure that we are this time. We've got a lot of players who cost a lot of money, who have got the requisite quality to be able to do things in this division. And actually, so it's almost just painting by numbers, we're going to get through, we've got enough, and it'll all be fine. And that never feels as nice as, all right, we've got this ragtag bunch of kind of German
00:35:51
Speaker
outcasts and, you know, kind of this random lad from Cubru seems to, you know, like to frequent, you know, Nourish High Street. But, you know, but you look at players like Steeperman and like Tetti and Francic and, you know, Zimbo and Tim Closer, you had real characters in those squads and not necessarily players who are anywhere near the quality of some of the players that we have in the team now.
00:36:21
Speaker
But they just did something to a dressing room. And the closest we've got to that right now is on El, of course. And, you know, it's no coincidence that the ground is a buzz every time he comes off the bench. Yeah. But then you're looking at players like Jordan Hugel. And, you know, he's a jackalad and he seems like he'd probably be good on a night out, but nowhere near, you know, kind of what we need. And that's why he's nowhere near the team. But apart from that,
00:36:46
Speaker
Is there anyone else really that you'd say, oh, I'd quite like to go for a beer with him. Or, you know, I'd quite like him to just turn up at my birthday party and just say hi.
00:37:02
Speaker
And there is a there is a wide eyed wonder to that young man at the moment. He's like, I can't believe this is happening to me. This is brilliant. I mean, that footage of it in the city view where he sees that like his picture is on is in the tunnel. Oh, my God, I've actually made it. Look at me and he says, no, no, no, it's brilliant, brilliant. So he is absolutely living his best life and will definitely be a character when he when he can speak the
Comparing Past and Present Team Dynamics
00:37:30
Speaker
lingo.
00:37:30
Speaker
But that aside, this isn't a squad where you go, I love them, you know, I'm completely in love with them and that should be building.
00:37:38
Speaker
when we're winning games. But I feel, I feel very little like you, you know, kind of maybe post-match, there's not that kind of buzz of, oh my God, how good was it at Carrow Road today? And I... Is that not because we haven't been on that journey within this squad yet? Maybe, but I'd have felt that start to build. I'd have kind of, and I don't feel that starting to build, Claire. I guess that's what I'm saying is I think
00:38:00
Speaker
But we have had such an amazing squad for a couple of years that we completely invested in. We loved our manager. He loved us. I mean, we haven't really ever had better than that apart from what we have. But Paul Lambert era. But then he kind of left in acrimonious circumstances. Whereas Farka has. So we've still got that kind of loving. So whatever happens now, it's not going to be like that. And we've got to accept that.
00:38:28
Speaker
And I don't necessarily need it. I think that was a golden age and one that we won't experience for some time again. But I'm still not expecting when you win six games on the spin that something starts to bubble up. I think there's a flip side to this. I think
00:38:46
Speaker
Partly, you know, we were only there to watch us be terrible in the Premier League for two seasons and miss that wonderful season in the middle. So we've gone to default mode, you know, every time we do something poor, it's negative already. However, we also weren't there in that middle season to see that not every game was a shoo-in. We didn't beat every team 7-0. That happened once in the season. Some of those games were really tough.
00:39:11
Speaker
There are quite a lot of performances that we struggled. We got one goal wins. We were struggling against lesser teams, but the crowd weren't there to see that and react to it as a whole. So we weren't venting our frustrations doing those games and going, oh, that was a bit tough. We were in our living rooms, walking our dogs. I wasn't watching it.
00:39:32
Speaker
90 minutes without turning my eyes away. I was going to make a cup of tea and listening to Chris Gordon's voice. And if it raised a notch, I'd run back in and see what was happening. Whereas when you're at the game, you're fully focused. I don't look at my phone. I'm there watching 90 minutes of football or 95 minutes of football.
00:39:50
Speaker
but we didn't have that sort of experience together. Those games weren't all that easy. We did have a lot of difficult games. We've turned it into this kind of mythical beast of being this most beautiful, perfect season. Yes, we won a lot of games, but we weren't as brilliant in some of them as I think everyone seems to remember. And because we didn't experience that together, we're now experiencing it together where not every game is perfect. And yes, this isn't great, what we've got now.
00:40:20
Speaker
I think that's partly why. I take your point there, Claire, absolutely. But I think the main difference between that season and this season is I always felt Norwich were in control of the game in 2021. Even when we weren't playing well, it just felt like we needed to flick a switch and it would all be fine. And I don't necessarily feel like this now. I don't think we control games in the way that we did. And I think that comes back to identity.
00:40:51
Speaker
But yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. There were certainly... It's a crowd reaction, I think. We just defaulted to it. But it feels to me like we are a little bit out of control. It's a little bit chaotic and we're almost getting through...
00:41:05
Speaker
in spite of you know kind of the way in which we're playing and because we have some wonderful players on our books. We also like you said we don't really want the prize and so if we're not enjoying the ride to the prize and we don't want the prize then it's not great is it? We might as well enjoy the ride at least but we're not right now. If you think of it as a raffle
00:41:29
Speaker
You know, when you've had a quick look at what is on offer and you think, well, that's a bottle of something that I don't drink, that's chocolate that I would never choose.
00:41:39
Speaker
I don't want two tickets to go and see that because I don't find them funny. Actually, we went there the other day with the kids and the soft play was rubbish. If that's what's on offer, as those tickets are being pulled out of the little box, there is no edge of your seat. Oh my goodness me. It's not a holiday to Tobago. It's not a dream car or speed boat.
00:42:04
Speaker
I'm not thinking, I'm not consciously thinking at any point when I walk up those steps, when I take my seat, when I'm getting a bit cross about the fact that I've been bored for five minutes at Carrow Road, I am not thinking, yeah, this is all because I don't really want to play Man City next year. But maybe subconsciously, there is an element of if I'm not really enjoying this journey, it is not worth how awful it will be next year.
Club Identity Crisis and Communications
00:42:31
Speaker
And it might be that
00:42:34
Speaker
that we get more comms around the Attaneseo investment forward slash loan forward slash situation going forward that builds a bit more of a buzz around what we might do in January and what we might do if we were to get promoted we might be able to have a genuinely good go at it and really reinforce the squad and yes that comes with the caveat of forests have done that and you know they're not exactly pulling up any trees but
00:43:01
Speaker
going back to the thing we're talking about with the relationship, you made an interesting point with G or you said it at the same time for two different situations. Stuart Weber doesn't care and it's not in his job description to be everyone's mate. Dean Smith very clearly doesn't care and I believe Dean Smith when he says he doesn't read social media
00:43:21
Speaker
we definitely know that Weber does. Whereas I believe that Dean Smith doesn't have a Twitter account. And I believe that he, as far as he's concerned, you know, the lads need to like me, the staff need to respect me. And then my results are the only other thing that matters. I think that it seems strange to me that the club are not trying to repair that
00:43:46
Speaker
kind of chasm between supporter and manager and supporter and squad as a whole. Because if you go through the individual players, love Pookie. Sergeant, what a great story. Now he's actually delivering. Good for him. And again, he's been on a journey that he was a bit of a punchline last season. And now he looks fantastic at this level. Nunez, what a great story. Max, what a servant to the club, one of our best players, one of our best key performers. I like Kenny, some other people don't.
00:44:15
Speaker
you know, Gibbs, brilliant local lad, nicked him off the off the bin is fantastic. And you know, you go through the individual players, cruel, love him to pieces. And I'm a Bama Delhi, how exciting to have another international standard kind of centre back who looks like he could really go places and that's going to, you know, he's going to earn us a few million in a couple of years, probably. Hanley, fantastic club servant set up that goal against the bin is, you know,
00:44:39
Speaker
So, do you know what I mean? If you go through the players, they're all very likeable players, but there's something about the whole. And I honestly think that it comes from the manager. I think that this squad is the Smith squad. This season, this is the Smith championship season.
00:44:57
Speaker
And therefore, if you don't, if you've got that break between Smith and Shakespeare and the fans, so they've done a couple of fan forums, which I haven't had the opportunity to go to. I have to work in midweek loads in the evenings at the moment, which is rubbish. Um, because those, those events have been fantastic previously. So I've not been to those, but yes, I know that Smith and shaking inverted commas have, have done a few of those things and they've, you know, they've been very warm, very general, but
00:45:26
Speaker
On match day, I want more from them. On match day, I want them to make more of an effort. And I want in the pre-match press conferences, it doesn't have to be an 11 minute conversation about sofas and living rooms and some bonkers analogy that no one can remember why it went that way. Not expecting that, because that's not his personality. And it would be fake and false if he tried to kind of put it on. But I just feel like it's strange to me that the club don't
00:45:53
Speaker
try and fix that. Do you think they've maybe tried and the pushback has just been too great, Majee? Do you think maybe Smith has said, nah, I don't want all that.
00:46:02
Speaker
I just think that's not who Deanie and Shakes are. I think they come in to do a job. Deanie and Shakes, I think they've come in to do a job and they're just not willing to be anything other than themselves. They're not passionate about Norwich. They've come here to do a job which these guys promoted.
00:46:24
Speaker
You were you ever will work with people who come in the clock in at nine o'clock out of five they don't want to talk over lunch they're not enjoying themselves they don't they're not there to be a mate just get the job done they go away quite often that's all you need. But this is a football club not the place to work and i want i want everyone not every noise friends the same i want a connection with the club i want to feel like i'm supporting the club not just eleven.
00:46:50
Speaker
blokes on a pitch. I want to feel like we have got a shared mission for the club and for the community and that the managers are a huge part of that. And he doesn't want to be. Now, like I said, that's not what he's getting paid for. It's not what Stuart Webber told him to come in and do. But the thing that really confuses me
00:47:06
Speaker
is that isn't what Stuart Weber said when he came in. He talked about the relationship with the fans. He talked about wanting to have a sense of togetherness and a sense of mission. It was part of their mantra of how to turn the club around, and they did it fantastically.
Media Relations and Player Engagement
00:47:22
Speaker
And it just feels like somewhere along the line, Stuart has decided, or maybe not just Stuart, but some of the leadership of the club have decided that that's not for them anymore. And I think with
00:47:36
Speaker
With Dean Smith, that's just not who he is. It's not the job he came in to do. But I think with the club, something's gone wrong. And they have been hurt by the fans or the reaction or by the disappointment of the results. And they're not willing to put their side into the relationship. And the relationship needs both sides to work at it, for it to come good.
00:47:57
Speaker
Well, it's happened to the local press as well. There are bridges that still haven't been rebuilt there. And I think that there's an access element. The bare minimum seems to be being given and the bare minimum amount of.
00:48:09
Speaker
background around stories is being given. And maybe we could have had more player puff pieces around how is Nunez settling into Norfolk. And maybe there could have been more things like that. In seasons past, if you look back, we've now had, what, three months of the season. We've normally, especially when the results are going well, we've normally sort of seen more of those kind of player puff pieces and background things come out of Arch and the likes of Michael in the athletics.
00:48:37
Speaker
Yeah, things don't feel healthy. It doesn't feel quite right at the moment. But again, we're second in the league. The idea of this, the idea which if the season finished today, it would be mission accomplished. And I'm not complaining about winning. I love winning. I'm not complaining about scoring more goals in the opposition. I love that. But again, there's a difference between talking something down, complaining, being negative and just going, I don't think this is as good as it could be.
00:49:05
Speaker
given the sum of the parts that are available. So let's wrap up with two predictions. Sorry, we don't do predictions. Two guarantees. Going to you first, McG, I want a guaranteed number of points from October. So eight games.
00:49:20
Speaker
So I'll do the maths for you, it goes up to 24. So say 25, total lols. How many points are you guaranteeing we will get at the end of October out of 24? And what will the score and at least one scorer be on Saturday? 16 points. Okay. And the score on Saturday will be 2-0 and Josh will get both of them. Oh, nice.
00:49:49
Speaker
Take that to your local bookmaker. We don't condone betting. Claire. I think we've got some really tough away games, so I'm not going to be getting any points from some of those. I'm going to go.
00:50:10
Speaker
Oh, 13 points. Oh, that's mean, isn't it? 13 points. What was the other question? Sorry, I was... Your guaranteed score line and guaranteed scorer on Saturday? For Saturday. Well, I'm annoyed because I probably can't go because of the stupid train strike. Yeah, it's bad, isn't it? I don't care. I don't care is my answer because I can't go.
00:50:35
Speaker
Brilliant. I love it. I love it. I'll write that down. Punty, punty, punt, punts. I was going to say 13 like Claire, but I'm going to have to be different now. I agree. The away games are very, very difficult. And I don't know. I haven't got particularly good feelings about many of them. So I will go with 12. I think we will win half of our games and lose half of our games.
00:51:02
Speaker
Okay. And that might be enough. This is the thing, Norwich being flat track bullies across the season will probably be plenty good enough to get us in the playoffs. It's just then actually whether we win enough of the games against the teams around us to put us in the top two. And I think we find that out this month, whether we're going to be up to that or not. In terms of scorers for Saturday, Teemu and we're going to win 3-1. Okay.
00:51:31
Speaker
Okay, well, I was going to go 13 as well, based upon the mixture of fixtures. So instead, I will just revise that slightly up and go 17, just so that I'm the most positive of the four of us. I'm the same camp as McGee's. I think the away games, yes, in theory, look harder than the home games, but
00:51:54
Speaker
I just don't think we've got enough to fear. And as much as I've talked about the fact that I don't feel like I'm being swept away on a fever dream of wonderful football and love for the squad and the manager, this team have got like a...
00:52:08
Speaker
The identity that they've got is we know how to get the job done. You know, Deanie and Shakes are here to do a job. And I almost feel like it's almost a Bill Belichick style, do your job.
00:52:27
Speaker
element to this squad, you know, it is very much a, um, you, you run 6.7 K we'll run 6.8. You know, we will, we will go slightly further than you. We've got slightly better subs than you. And that's the case with all but one squad in the division. And I think we're going to have enough over October to, to, to win more than definitely more than we, more than we lose. And a couple of draws and those win three of the home games.
00:52:53
Speaker
Draw two and win one of the away games. One defeat either side. That's what I'm going for. And we will definitely win 4-0 on Saturday. And I guarantee that Max Ahrens will score.
00:53:10
Speaker
quite a guarantee. Do we want to do any listener questions or have we run out of time? No, we run out of time and also we covered things like Haydon, Claire covered Haydon, never going to play for Norwich and I think we've covered kind of the the general malaise that there is that was in some of the questions. Can I just pick out one and we don't necessarily have to answer it but Norwich fan Gagan Ricks asked, will Josh Sargent score the goal that eliminates England from the World Cup? And it got me thinking and I don't know if any of you guys can remember
00:53:37
Speaker
but the last time I can remember a striker on Norrie City's books going to a World Cup was Robert Fleck in 1990. A gun was at that... Didn't Wes? That was there too. Yeah, Gunny was there too. Wes? Yeah, Wes. He's not a striker. I was after a striker. He scored though. Brian Gunn isn't a striker. No, I mean a striker, a Norrie City striker that went to a World Cup and I couldn't think of another one. Or was he not with us then?
00:54:06
Speaker
I think he probably got the Nigeria squad after. Leroy Fair wasn't a striker. So we're quite good at getting the inverse of your question. Yeah, cheers for that mate. Can I interest you in some incorrect answers?
00:54:23
Speaker
Well, yeah, you put the ACN quizzes together. Yeah, all right, all right. Okay, right, that'll do. Thank you for listening. Thank you so much for your time, Mcgee. Lovely to see your face. Claire, lovely to hear your voice but not see your face on this podcast occasion. Pun, I acknowledge you exist. And let's just hope that there's a bit more of a good feeling that starts to spread alongside these wonderful results. Mind how you go.