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Ep 6 :: Jessica Scharnus :: Friendship, Love and Loss
132 Plays2 months ago
Joining Megan in this episode is her best friend from high school, Jessica Scharnus. They discuss friendship, family and loss. Trigger Warning: In this episode, Jess shares, in detail, about losing her 3 month old daughter and may be triggering for some, as well sensitive for young ears.
We dedicate this episode to precious Tinley Rose. Your mama can't wait to squeeze you in eternity!
You can connect with Jessica on Instagram or Facebook
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For more go to: MySeedsOfHope.com
Music:
The Success by Keys of Moon
Music promoted by https://www.chosic.com/free-music/all/
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
Hi friends, welcome to Diggin' In. I'm your host, Megan. This is a place where we discuss the things that really matter in life. We cut through the surface to dive deeper. So pull up a chair because here we're Diggin' In.
00:00:19
Speaker
All right. Welcome back to Digging in I have ah the most special guest this evening joining me, a girlfriend from high school. We actually met way before high school, but Jessica Charnas. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, Megan. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be on.
00:00:37
Speaker
It has been. i mean, how long have we talked about doing this? Oh, my gosh. I mean, I knew about this dream of yours before it was actual... an actual reality. Oh, yeah. So it's been a long time.
00:00:50
Speaker
It's been a long, long time.
Childhood and Early Friendship
00:00:51
Speaker
Yes. So we went to high school together, but I want to hear your version of how we met or how like our earliest friendship encounter. I mean, there's just so many.
00:01:04
Speaker
if I remember being in a play with you. goodness. Is this one you're thinking? Yes. And I think I was sitting behind you and I stood up and my, or you stood up, right? And my feet were on your skirt.
00:01:18
Speaker
Oh my goodness. I totally forgot about that. That just sticks out in my head so much. You were so mad at me. I was very mad. I do remember that. i I'm pretty sure.
00:01:29
Speaker
It wasn't on purpose. Yeah. Because there was like this whole dynamic of our like girlfriend group at the time. And, you know, we're in elementary school. Things are getting ironed out. People are figuring out who who's going to be their best friend and then who's going to be like their friend. And there was it was a weird dynamic of five of us. And so I felt like I was always vying for that fourth spot. You know, there was three of you. you lived close to each other. and I was like, I'm going to be in this spot. And then when you did that, I in my mind was like, she's sabotaging me. She doesn't want me to be in this group of friends.
00:02:03
Speaker
And it was so such a total accident. Oh my gosh. I felt horrible though, because I knew that you thought it was on purpose. Oh, my goodness. Which is so funny because if you know Jessica, which you guys probably don't, but if you knew Jessica, she's like the last person on earth that would do something like that. So I know that now. Yes, now you do.
00:02:27
Speaker
So funny. And then we also had another stage production in elementary school. And what was that? Oh, it was our fifth grade talent show. Yeah, it was. Which is so fitting because my son just was in a talent show last night. Oh, I love So it came full circle. It brought back a lot of memories of our elementary school years and doing the Spice Girls on stage. I was going to say, I bet he didn't do Spice Girls. No, he didn't. No, for sure not. I don't even think he knows who they are. so Oh my goodness. We're aging ourselves year. We are. We totally are. oh so fun. Oh, yeah. I love it. Yeah. So we met in elementary school, probably kindergarten. I don't remember exactly. But like I said, there was this like weird dynamic of these other girls that were in our class. And I just remember like I wanted to be in crowd, right? And there was this other girl. And I remember this one time at lunch. I don't know if you remember this or not. But it was like, you're going to have to tell her.
00:03:19
Speaker
that you don't like her and you don't want to be your friend in order to be in our friend group. Do you remember that? No. Oh, it was awful. So I had to go over her to her and be like, so-and-so, don't like you and I don't want to be your friend. And then I went back and sat down and was like, I did it.
00:03:33
Speaker
And I was so proud. I was like, yay, now I'm in. But anyway, we're all good now. We're all adults. yeah You know, we have all grown and moved on. Yeah.
00:03:43
Speaker
ah But I always in the summer times, especially my neighborhood was like, you know, it was only about a 10 minute drive, eight minute drive maybe from your house. But the way that you had to go, you had to go like out on the main roads. But they backed up to one another. yeah I always felt so close yet so far because you guys all would just go to the pool like every single day. And I was trapped at home.
00:04:06
Speaker
by myself yes oh i know and the things you don't think about know know yeah and i think about them now yeah you right you with my kid oh my goodness all the time i'm like don't leave anybody out everybody included like never want someone to be left out right right and they just don't see it at that age i know especially boys they're a little bit different yeah they're they're all unique right yeah Well, we've already di a couple minutes in, but I want everyone to get a chance to get to know you just a little bit. So tell us a little bit about you, what you do Tell us about your family and all that good stuff.
00:04:42
Speaker
Okay. So my husband and I met the summer before college. So we've been together since we were 18, which is crazy because it doesn't feel like it's been that long. I just turned 40 last month and like we've been together you know, longer than we haven't. It almost, you know, it's crazy.
00:05:03
Speaker
um We have five children. one is in heaven. um Our daughter is, she's in heaven. We have four boys here, earth side, and they are wonderful. Our youngest is about to turn four this weekend. Our oldest is 13.
00:05:21
Speaker
I'm very busy. We're always at a basketball game, a football game, a lacrosse game, running all over the place. Yes. So I think we're definitely in the.
00:05:35
Speaker
thralls of parenthood right now. Our schedule is very full, um but it's such a blessing and such a gift. yeah I recently got a job working in my two middle boys school part-time, so that's been fun to be with all the kids. And thinking back to you know how we got to know each other,
00:05:55
Speaker
And what you're saying with like being, you know, wanting to be in that in crowd and wanting to be included. i i see that now and I work with kindergartners. So it's so interesting. um yeah What's so important to them?
00:06:09
Speaker
and then, you know, as an adult being like. gosh, it's not important, but it is to you right now. you know i know. It's like the whole world to them in that moment. Yes. Yes. So, yeah.
00:06:23
Speaker
I love it. Yeah. And you've so you've got family down there where you are in our hometown. Yes. And you guys are always getting together and doing lots of fun things, which is just so sweet. I love it. Yes. Both of our families are local. We're together often. We go to church with my in-laws. um so we If we're not at the pool, we're at the lake in the summer. Summer's our favorite.
00:06:46
Speaker
So yeah, we just – big family, big schedule. Yeah. the things all the time. A lot of life's happening. Yeah. Yes. And you always inspiring me with moving my body because you post every single morning that you are either running or lifting or doing something before getting – all the kids wrangled and getting out the door to go to work. and Yeah. yes So I think that is something about me. I've, you know, starting about three years old, I remember watching my mom do step aerobics. So if she ever is listening to this, shout out to you, mom.
00:07:23
Speaker
Way to go, mom. Because she would just give me a stool and be like, like a little kid's stool and be like, come on, you can do it with me. So um really starting at three, I've been physically active in some capacity. um And I think for me as a mom shuffling so many kids and so many schedules, I've just learned over the years, like,
00:07:45
Speaker
to be the best version of myself, I have to have that 30 minutes to an hour to like have my quiet time and then move my body. And it's even gotten to where, you know, sometimes I'm just walking on the treadmill. It's not really an intensive workout, but I can even listen to my Bible while I do that, you know? So, um,
00:08:07
Speaker
Absolutely. Just trying to have a routine is important to me for sure. Yeah. yeah You're really good about really good about that. And back in January, Adam and I started and then we went on a vacation for my birthday and I have not gotten back into it, but I can feel it. It's crazy. I was talking to a friend and I just felt so good. I absolutely love the alarm going off. Same. And probably about the four first like 10 to 15 minutes.
00:08:33
Speaker
Honestly, let's be real. It's not until it's over that I'm happy about it. Well, I was going to say social media, you know, it doesn't always show the truth. And I think we're both well aware of that. um so I and that's why my face is never in it.
00:08:48
Speaker
Hilarious. But you're cute. It's like my feet or my weights, because when the alarm goes off, I, too, I'm like, oh, but do I have to do that? I have to. But I feel so much better when it's done.
00:09:00
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. Totally. Yeah, absolutely. And then you're so great, too, just about, like, getting your boys active and having them outside and keeping them moving, you know. And if it's not raining, get outside. Like, yeah do something. And then you'll come home and go for a walk with a little Jaxie and get him in the stroller. And he loves it. What sweet memories that he'll have, you know, of those times, too. so Yes. Well, shout out to the boy moms because oh yeah we all know that they're active. And if they aren't outside or they aren't burning off energy, they're getting in trouble some other way. So holes through the wall, you know, whatever. you know Curtains down. both have those stories. Yeah.
00:09:36
Speaker
yeah Oh, man.
Friendship Through Life Changes
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah. So Jess and i we went to high school together, graduated high school, and then we went our separate ways for college and then would see each other like over the summers and stuff and always kept in touch. And we had a couple of life events that happened like high school and throughout. You know, we had a really close friend that lost her mom during high school and that kind of it was extremely traumatic um and a lot to go through, but we had each other, which was really sweet. And I loved that. You know, there was like a group of us that really drew close to one another to support her in that time. And then we kind of I feel like just it's not that we totally lost touch. We you know, we would talk here and there. But recently, yeah
00:10:19
Speaker
A friend of mine introduced me to Marco Polo and it has become our absolute favorite thing. Like I love it. We talk almost every day. We do. Sometimes multiple times a day. Sometimes multiple times. And I'm so thankful. so thankful for that because, you know, it's sad we don't live close like we used to. I know. And there are times like today, I think you're talking about um having a, what was it? Like a...
00:10:45
Speaker
birthday like a but little birthday celebration. I'm like, I want to come. want to and crush it. I know. I know. I have the same thoughts with you and all the cool things that you have up where you live. And no it would be so fun to do that together or to bring the boys to in Noah's games or something. know. And vice versa. But – Anyway, that's one of those that, ah you know, like the technology, it can just get out of control. But I'm so thankful for those types of things as a tool. Yeah. And we can harness it and use it for good. And so I'm thankful that we're able to see. And we can like see each other, which is fun. You know, it's not just like because I am not a fan of talking on the phone, but I can talk to you via like FaceTime video all the time. So it's great. Same. And we do. And we do. And it's awesome. yeah We talk about all the things, which is like great. One of the things we were just talking about is going to the grocery store. How many times a week do you go to the grocery store, Jess? Oh, girl, at least four or five at the very almost daily. I was um just telling you how I just bought grapes two days ago, like the biggest bag of grapes I could find. And I already had to go back today to buy more because all of a sudden my kids can't stop eating grapes.
00:11:50
Speaker
And then next week, you know, they probably won't like them anymore. Who knows? But you are a boy mom of four growing boys. Like, yeah that's a lot. Yes, a lot. But totally worth it.
00:12:03
Speaker
Yes, that's right. Well, um you kind of alluded earlier to, like, the big thing that I really want, you know, my the podcast um audience here being,
00:12:14
Speaker
probably mainly mostly moms or young women. And there's so many things that I could talk to you about. And we're definitely to be having you back on to talk about all kinds of different fun things.
Tragedy Strikes: Losing Tinley
00:12:25
Speaker
But one thing in particular for me with you is just the incredible grace that you have had and walking through losing a child.
00:12:34
Speaker
And so I just want to talk through that this evening. And um I talked with Jess before and was like, i kind of want to just get, you know, the the story out there and then come back and really dig deeper into like the grief journey. And how do you even get through that? um So I probably should pause here and just say that, you know, trigger warning, this is going to talk about infant loss and it's a pretty traumatic story. So if you need to pause here and pick it up at a different time, that's okay. Or if there's littles around, might not want to have them listening in. But Jess, I'm going to just toss it over to you First of all, okay, so your first boy was born and then your girl. Yes.
00:13:18
Speaker
So let's start there. How old was Cam when she came along? Yes. So we tried actually for a while to even get pregnant with Cameron. um Like I said, we had been together since we were 18. So when we got married, we got married in 2010. We were pretty much like, you know, we've had a lot of years together. We're kind of ready to start a family. And my mom had no issues getting pregnant. So I totally thought like,
00:13:45
Speaker
It'll just happen. And it didn't for several months. And, you know, then you start worrying. Shout out to anybody who's been there because it's so hard. And I feel like the more that you want it.
00:13:59
Speaker
The heart, you know, the, it doesn't seem to come as easily as you would hope. Well, it just adds stress too, right? It adds stress. It's on your body already. And you can easily become obsessive about and that's not healthy and all the things. So.
00:14:16
Speaker
um We had tried for about, it had been over a year um and then randomly found out I was pregnant. Did not expect it. I think I had kind of been like, you know what, I'm going to stop stress stressing about it and give it to the Lord. Like I make, you know, I'm making this about me and this isn't about me kind of thing. So I surrendered it and lo and behold, got pregnant.
00:14:39
Speaker
We were ecstatic, had a great, easy pregnancy, praise God, because I know many women who are deathly sick and all the things. And um it i just it was great. i loved I loved being pregnant, had him in October, just two days after my husband's birthday. ah And so they share the same birthday month. And it was so fun becoming parents for the first time. And Megan, you know, you were my only friend with a child at the time. So I feel like that we reconnected in that way, too. Yeah, totally. Because you had so much good advice on motherhood. You know, you don't know what you're doing until they lay that baby in your arms.
00:15:23
Speaker
Yeah. And then you leave the hospital. It's like, are you letting me walk out of here right now? my gosh. I cried when I left the hospital. I did. I was like, hey, she did. drove 10 miles an hour. Yeah. I'm like, dude, you got to step on it. Yeah. I got to get in the bathroom. It's like, yeah.
00:15:38
Speaker
What are we doing? Yes. I know. So all the things. um Had you know him for the first year, got a puppy with him, all the things. And then we decided, you know this is fun. We want to do it again. um And we got pregnant pretty easily with Tinley, our daughter.
00:15:58
Speaker
um They were a little over two years apart. So she was February, or I'm sorry, December 1st was her birthday. So yeah, like two years and two months.
00:16:11
Speaker
yeah And um again, easy pregnancy, easy delivery. The second delivery is worlds different than the first. I mean, they're all ah all unique in their own way. I've got about five topics already that I'm ready to circle back about. Yeah. There's so many things.
00:16:26
Speaker
um And so had her and, um you know, i feel like with her, when they put her in my arms, I just, I never...
00:16:41
Speaker
I think my husband was like, you know, we have a healthy boy. We have a healthy girl. i get stressed and worried. And, you know, all the protector things that happen with a with a father and um husband. And he was like, I think we should be done, you know. And I'm like, what? I'm in the hospital. You can't tell me that.
00:17:02
Speaker
and I remember in the hospital with her thinking, like, maybe I should be done. But having this like gut instinct of I and now, you know, hindsight's 20, 20. But looking back that feeling from the Lord of like, you're not finished. And I remember it sitting in the hospital bed, which is crazy. Yeah.
00:17:25
Speaker
And so brought her home and she was a pretty difficult baby. And i I hate to say that now because what I would give to experience that all again with her. um But I do think she had colic or something and I just had – You know, I was a young mom. I had no idea what that even really was. um So she was very fussy, very clingy, only wanted me all the time. um and it was exhausting, but beautiful and all the things.
00:17:59
Speaker
um And then we started looking at me having to go back to work. And we were so blessed with our first with Cameron because my mother-in-law was home and she was able to help keep him. So he did not go to a sitter until he was like almost dead.
00:18:17
Speaker
I think he was about a year old. So I had known this sitter ah up and, you know, throughout my pregnancy with Tinley. She was a friend of my mother-in-law.
00:18:30
Speaker
All the things. I was just super comfortable with her. um But yet still at six weeks old, I wasn't going to take an infant. So we worked out my schedule.
00:18:41
Speaker
I went back to work when she was nine weeks old. And then my husband stayed home with her until she was 12 weeks old. um And it was a February day. So fitting that we're doing this podcast this month.
00:18:55
Speaker
um And I drove her to the sitter for three hours. It was going to be a three-hour stay, – um which You know, no mom wants to leave their baby with a sitter or anywhere for that matter, for the first time especially, is so tough.
00:19:15
Speaker
um So I had feelings of uneasiness. She only liked to breastfeed. She wouldn't take a bottle. But again, i had communicated all of this with the babysitter. And she was like, you know, I've gotten so many babies to take the bottle. It's going to be okay. And it was like everything I wanted to hear, right?
00:19:34
Speaker
um So dropped her off. I mean, I had stocked the sitter's freezer with breast milk because I'm so type A. It's ridiculous.
00:19:46
Speaker
And um she, you know... I left, I went to work and I was going to be gone for three hours. And I checked in probably an hour in and she was honest, the babysitter and said, you know, Tinley has been pretty fussy. She's not loving the bottle.
00:20:06
Speaker
Um, I got her to take a little bit and then she went to sleep. And she sent me a picture of Tinley. And I was actually sitting in the DMV with a client at the time. um And i the picture was disturbing. She looked not like she had been abused or anything like that, but she looked sad. Hmm. And I remember sending it to my husband and saying, Tinley looks so sad.
00:20:33
Speaker
And he was like, well, it's okay because you're going to be there in like an hour and a half, two hours. And I was like, you're right. She's probably going to sleep half of that, you know? Yeah. um And so then I left and I text the babysitter that I was on my way and I got no response at all.
00:20:51
Speaker
And i pulled up to the house. And where the sitter lived was near the VA hospital. So it wasn't unusual to hear ambulances or like emergency vehicles because...
00:21:07
Speaker
it was near hospital. Sure. But what's odd is I remember pulling into the driveway and getting out of the car and hearing the sirens and something didn't feel right even before I walked in the house.
00:21:22
Speaker
Um, and so I walk in Tinley is in the floor, the babysitter is giving her CPR and my son is watching. my two year old son. um And I knew right when I looked at her that she was not alive.
00:21:43
Speaker
Um, I guess I, I don't need to go into detail all of that because it's really, it's gruesome. It's heartbreaking. um And so i you know, I always say, like, if I'm fight or flight, I i think I'm a flight person. And i that's something I've worked on since her passing um because I ran out of the house and was just frantically waving down – because at this point, the fire truck and ambulance were coming up the road.
00:22:20
Speaker
And, you know, it feels like it was – hours, but it was all probably less than a minute. You know what I mean? But I remember calling my husband and screaming, Tinley's dead, Tinley's dead. And he, i don't even remember what he said. And then I called my mom and I was just, and then I was shouting at the ambulance and i like could not go back in there and look at her.
00:22:45
Speaker
Um, and I did run back in and I grabbed Cameron because by, at that point, you know, everybody had surrounded Tinley. And so I grabbed him and ran out and he was crying, but he had no idea he was two. Um, and so then hopped the,
00:23:05
Speaker
hopped in the trying to remember. I sat in the ambulance. And I remember just like looking at the personnel in there. I don't even remember who it was. And like my husband was sobbing, like on the ground sobbing. And I was just shaking but not crying.
00:23:24
Speaker
I was screaming. And I looked at them and I was like, why can't I cry? and I think that's, you know, i now know like it was shock. Your brain protects you.
00:23:36
Speaker
um i don't think my brain even registered really the truth. I think I was screaming like she's dead because I wanted somebody to say, no, she's not. You know,
00:23:48
Speaker
um and they brought her out of the house. And I remember seeing her little arm hanging down. And it's like you could just see all the veins. And they put her in the back of the ambulance. And then they wouldn't let me look back there. And they made me get out.
00:24:06
Speaker
And they made me go in the car behind them. And it was just this shuffling and We went to um the closest hospital, which is Lewis Gale, which I now know if there had been any hope of saving her, we would have gone to Roanoke Memorial because that's where their NICU is.
00:24:30
Speaker
um But we went to Lewis Gale and they took us into a room. And a few minutes later, the doctor came in with a nurse and and said we did all we could do. He was sobbing. The nurse was sobbing.
00:24:45
Speaker
i fell into the floor. It feels now like I'm a fly on the wall. You know, i was a fly on the wall watching this nightmare unfold. um so all of our family came. We were all in this one little room. And i think that's why living where we live and having families so close now is so important to me because they all were there. They all came. um And then the chaplain came in and so much happens in those moments of grief and
00:25:24
Speaker
I'm trying to find the words of like, I can't believe this is my reality. Like this, these are things that you hear about in the news. This doesn't happen in real life kind of thing.
00:25:35
Speaker
And I remember having so many thoughts of like, ah my marriage is going to fail. My family's going to fall apart. Like I had just lost something so precious and I'm going to lose it all, you know? yeah And my husband's strength of like, that is never going to happen. You know, and we were able to kind of hold each other up somehow. And honestly, it's God's grace because I don't know any parent that could sit in that room and survive it otherwise.
00:26:11
Speaker
um So yeah, and then they they asked us if we wanted to see her. They gave all of our family time to see her. Everybody went except for except for me.
00:26:23
Speaker
Scott went. i I don't even remember who went with him. And I just kept saying, i can't, I don't want to remember her like this. Like, I want to remember her alive. And yeah.
00:26:38
Speaker
It was a police investigation because no at the time, nobody knew really what happened. yeah um So they were like, if you're going to want to see her, now i mean now's your last chance.
00:26:51
Speaker
and i I don't know how long we sat there, but I finally was like, okay, I'm going to see her because I, you know, no regrets. You don't want to leave and look back and be like, I wish I had seen her.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah. um So I went in there and there was a police officer standing there and he immediately was he was pretty cold. And he was like, you can't touch her. You can't get too close to her um because this isn't an investigation.
00:27:26
Speaker
And I just wanted to like. I don't even know. Be like, you're so heartless. Yeah. But, um and I, so I couldn't touch her and she looked, I mean, she looked so peaceful and so beautiful, but so, so I was just so broken, you know?
00:27:49
Speaker
And i remember looking at her and thinking like, you're with Jesus, like you're good, but I'm not, you know? So, um, And we left. ah We had to leave at some point and drove home. And I think all the things with with infant loss that people overlook is like,
00:28:12
Speaker
Not only is your child gone, but your whole body is different, right?
Coping with Grief
00:28:16
Speaker
And we have all these hormones and like my milk would still drop. And all these reminders of her for days, you know, like physical reminders. So not only are you dealing with like the emotional agony and pain and, i mean, I can't even put a word on it.
00:28:34
Speaker
But also the physical pain is like it's it's it's honestly unbearable. so um And then we had to go back to our our house.
00:28:47
Speaker
And that was a whole other beast of like walking in there to a home that was so happy that morning. Coming home a few hours later and your whole life is different.
00:29:01
Speaker
things you know like her swaddle was still in the crib because I had unswaddled her and I remember she like threw her arms up like the little newborns do when you unswaddle them and so I just picked her up out of it you know and it was still sitting there and I remember just sitting in her floor like smelling her swaddle and all of her things um So, I mean, I found a binky that was hers and I was smelling that. Like, just, you know, weird things that now I'm like, that sounds so weird, but it was just so, it was just grief.
00:29:35
Speaker
So... um There's no right way. There's no right way. And and so We could not live, I mean, we had a small little ranch um that we had the two kids in, and we knew, we had listed it before, we had known we wanted to move, and this kind of just, um,
00:29:59
Speaker
sped up the process of like, we cannot, i cannot go by her room every single day. For me, that, that was not going to work. Yeah. So we lived with my in-laws for a month. I'm thankful for them and the room that they had to take us in and our dog and my three-year-old or two-year-old at the time. Yeah.
00:30:25
Speaker
And then, yeah, we, we had to rebuild everything. I didn't go back to work after that. I mean, our whole life literally flipped upside down and in an instant and,
00:30:39
Speaker
we've been on a new journey ever since. And that's, it'll be 11 years, February 23rd. Which is crazy. So this actually will be airing three days after that. So yeah.
00:30:50
Speaker
Yes. eleven years 11 years. And i think for me, 10 years was really like, I cannot believe it's been 10 years. A whole decade has passed. And then a whole nother realm of grief hits, right? Of like,
00:31:08
Speaker
She feels so far away, ah you know, because it's been so long and so much life has happened. We've had three more children, um but she's always had her place in this family and she always will. And the boys know about her and we we say her name every single day every morning on the way to school, we pray and we always end with, we love you, Jesus. We love you, Tinley. Amen. Amen.
00:31:36
Speaker
And I just, we visit her grave, which if I'm 100% honest, I don't love going to the cemetery. Some people find it comforting for me. It's just a sad reminder. um But my kids, my boys love to go.
00:31:55
Speaker
and they'll sit right there, sit with her. they They love to switch out her flowers. They'll, you know, say, take our picture with her mom. And so... I like to think I'm doing something right and in that regard.
00:32:08
Speaker
um And we, yeah, we just, we have special ways we honor her um with like when we do family photos, we always bring a rose. Her middle name is Rose. and So we always have a rose for her to fit in one pregnancy announcement and I did like each boy had a ball and I did a volleyball for her and I put like a bunny that my mom had gotten her with a big purple bow on the bunny. That's her spot in the family lineup. Yeah.
00:32:44
Speaker
So. we've done you know we We try every Christmas. Our elf on the shelf brings, you know he comes December 1st, her birthday. So he brings a birthday party set up for her and a story about you know Jesus is the reason for this season. and How we're going to honor the Lord through the month of December and all year, but also honor, our honor her because she's there with him.
00:33:12
Speaker
So, and and celebrate her. So that's, Yeah, it's it's a lot. it's It's a lot. Yeah, it has been a lot for sure. So um just to back up real quick, so we dove in and talked about like you finding her in the floor with the sitter. You know, she's doing CPR, but what were – how did it happen? Like what exactly happened? Yes. we tenly So we, late we found out, honestly, i guess I did leave out such an important part that when they took her to the ambulance and had me get out, the sitter came out and was saying she didn't know what happened. And I was screaming, what happened?
00:33:58
Speaker
And she was like, I don't know. I don't know. And I said, you know what happened? Tell me what happened. And she said, i put her on the bed and I propped her on a pillow. um, and So my understanding was that she swaddled her and was worried that she would spit up and choke. So she propped her up, but Tinley was not asleep. She was upset probably because she was hungry because she wouldn't take the bottle. um And so she just laid her on the bed, I guess, to let her cry, but she rolled off and was face down on the mattress and suffocated. so,
00:34:39
Speaker
At three months old, you know, she was pretty strong. i think if she had had her arms, she might have been okay, but she was swaddled, so she didn't. And then, you know, your mind goes through, like, how long was she left there?
00:34:55
Speaker
You know, like, why didn't anybody check on her? Mm-hmm. Why did she put her in the bed? Why did you put her- Instead of the pack and play that was right next to it. Right. And as a mom, and I'm speaking to all moms again, and you know when your child gets injured, it's any anything, we blame ourselves, right? Like, oh, I wasn't watching. I wasn't you know diligent enough or whatever it is. And that's what I did for years. It was like,
00:35:22
Speaker
I never asked where Tinley would sleep, but she had Cameron for, you know, a long time and he was always in a pack and play. There were many times i got there to pick him up.
00:35:36
Speaker
And she would be like, oh, yeah, he's asleep. You can go grab him. And I would. She was such an open book. And that I liked. She made me comfortable. right um So I would just go and get him out of the pack and play. And so we had such a good relationship that I felt – I mean, to me, it was just common sense that she would put her in the pack and play. right And she had bought a little pink bouncy seat for her and she had made her a blanket. And so in no way was this, I honestly do not feel that this was in any way intentional.
00:36:12
Speaker
It was just very negligent. Yeah. um And i I think she... struggled with her and was like, she's tired and I'm going to put her down and she'll cry herself to sleep.
00:36:26
Speaker
And that just unfortunately was not what happened. Yeah. Yeah. So hard. to So tragic. Yeah. Like you said, negligent, just totally, you know, avoidable and accidents happen. But I know for myself and my mom has struggled for years. And every time I bring up your name, every time she always says, I just don't know how she's done it, you know? And i'm like, yeah, I don't either.
00:36:58
Speaker
Because I'm not in that situation. But I also i do know how she's done it. She and her husband have chosen to lean on the Lord first and foremost, and then unite with one another. um And that's like a whole other thing that we can definitely unpack. But Um, just the whole, you know, accidents happen, but things that there was one choice after another, after another, that there could have been a moment of, you don't, don't make this choice. This is, a this is not smart. You know, likewa like, like you said, swaddling her and not leaving her arms out. Yes. Putting her in the bed instead of in the pack and play. Yes. Letting, i mean, her son was home from, for from college and we found out through the investigation that,
00:37:39
Speaker
he She had sent him to check on her a couple of times and he told the police, yeah, she was face down on the bed, but I thought she was asleep. And so like that came out months later. and I mean, the anger you feel because it's just like, hey, we weren't paying him to babysit.
00:38:02
Speaker
We were paying her. and why your her first day, you know, for three hours, like just don't put her out of your sight. And honestly, that's what I didn't think that she would. She had everything out in her living room for her.
00:38:17
Speaker
And so I just never said, like, don't put her on the bed because to me that was such common sense for a sitter who had babysat for 30 years or however, maybe not 30, but at least 20. A while, yeah. A long time. um So all these things that, you know, and I beat myself up for so long and then – Through prayer and Bible study and therapy and all the things you realize, like, this was just a a poor, tragic decision on on her part. And it was life-changing for, i mean, it was dev it's the most devastating thing I could imagine happened to my family. Yeah.
00:39:03
Speaker
Right. Yeah. But um I will say what your mom says. You know, I get that a lot. Even today, 11 years later, people will say, i don't know how you do it. And my response is always, neither do I. I don't do it.
00:39:20
Speaker
I mean, this is it's the Lord has given me the ability to share my story for starters, well, to to cope with it and then to share it.
00:39:30
Speaker
And I will do that to my very own grave because that is how I'm going to honor her by talking about her and sharing her. And um I think you go one or two ways in such a life changing
Finding Purpose in Loss
00:39:47
Speaker
situation. You either You're all in on the Lord or you go the other way. And the the people who go the other way, i just, I don't, that's when I would say, i don't know how you you do it.
00:39:59
Speaker
And I don't think that they do very well. Yeah. You know? Yeah. so and And you and your husband are still married.
00:40:10
Speaker
And we're still married. Very happily married. yes Yeah. I mean, that to me, i mean, I, I've always loved Scott. He's just so wonderful. He's a great man, very strong. Um, you know, he just, he loves you so well and he always has at least what what I've been around for. um and he loves his kids well, he's an amazing dad, you know, he's just, he's such a great guy. um But even still, like he's statistically speaking, you know, in the world's eyes, like this very often is the end of a marriage because people just can't survive, you know, ah dealing with it for themselves, much less being, you know, able to love and support someone else plus children. You know, like it's just can you talk a little bit about like what those early days were like um with Scott and like.
00:41:06
Speaker
The grief journey, just a little bit about the back and forth and the yo-yo, one of you doing okay and the other lifting each, you know, just all that. Yes. So, I mean, before we even left the hospital the day that Tim Lee passed away, I felt very like – anxious and scared and nervous. And i don't, I don't think my body knew what to feel other than just like survival. Sure. And, um, i mean, I felt like I couldn't even walk.
00:41:36
Speaker
It was crazy. Like my legs wouldn't work. Um, but we went, I had to go to the bathroom and this will make you laugh, but I was like, I can't go by myself. You know, I'm going pass out. Like I can't even make it there.
00:41:51
Speaker
And he went with me And I looked at him in the bathroom because that was the only place we were alone. I mean, our whole family was in the hospital and the police and the hospital staff. And it was like, I can't even breathe, you know.
00:42:05
Speaker
um so we were in the bathroom and I looked for him square in the eye and I said, what is going to happen to us? And I said, people don't survive this.
00:42:16
Speaker
I said, we just lost our baby. i said, weren't we're not going to make it. And he grabbed my face. It makes me cry and looked right in the eyes and was like, are you kidding me?
00:42:27
Speaker
He said, we're going to be just fine. no And we have been. And um not to say it's been rainbows and butterflies because anybody who's had grief, it is so, so hard, as I've said, probably a thousand times just tonight. um But we definitely had moments of like, I would fall apart and say, you know, like, oh,
00:42:50
Speaker
I can't do this. I can't do this. I don't know how I'm going to do this. And he would just hold my hand or squeeze me or say, you know, let's just work on your breathing. or you know, he would put food in my mouth because I couldn't, I couldn't even like chew it to swallow it.
00:43:05
Speaker
You know, I just, um, ah nothing was appealing. he, you know, he made sure I was fed, but all while grieving too. um and then he would have moments of, and this is where I really saw the Lord's hand was he never let us both fall at the same time alone, if that makes sense. So,
00:43:30
Speaker
and I mean, there in the hospital in the early days, we both were falling apart. But golly, we had both sets of parents, all of our siblings, you know, everybody was there um to to help us. And then and and you are friends. I mean, you guys all came in and we'll have to speak on that to Megan of all those things. But yeah.
00:43:53
Speaker
You know, and then as you start to kind of find your new normal, once he, i think he had like two months off work. His work was so gracious. yeah i was going to say, that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, they, they were just like anything you need, you know, people.
00:44:09
Speaker
I remind myself of this today because we live in a very broken and sad world, but there's still so much good. And there was when when Tinley died. I mean, people came from all over bringing meals and all the things. So anyway, I digress.
00:44:28
Speaker
um He, you know, he would have his breakdowns and his meltdowns and the Lord would grant me the strength to hold him up in those moments. And that our marriage has very much been that way the past 11 years. You know, if he's having a bad day, he's to be bad i I can makete i make – I'm able to make space for that without also breaking too.
00:44:52
Speaker
So i um I'm so thankful that we've found a balance in our grief journey. And we and we grieve differently. i mean, men and women – are so, so different things for me. Like it was super hard to look at pictures of her for years. I mean, it would take my breath away um where he found a lot of comfort in looking at those pictures. yeah And I never was like, Oh my gosh, you know, how can you, how can you bear it? Because i I, we just understand each other. It's just, you know, he knows how I am and I know how he is and what we need you
00:45:33
Speaker
to survive. So yeah, absolutely. Well, and that's what the Lord does right in that covenant marriage. That's the one fleshness, you know, and you guys like you vow, you make a covenant with one another before the Lord, yeah which is unbreakable in God's eyes, regardless of what happens on this side of heaven. And, you know, it's for better, for worse, for sickness but and in health, you know, like Mm-hmm.
00:46:00
Speaker
and you're living through all of it right um and i think too that that is like such a you know there was a couple different things obviously as we're talking through this and um but just to be able to sit there and share the story now You know, and and you never know. i find this, too, when I share our story as well as like I'm sitting here and i you know I was just sharing last night with our our betrayal support group. I am like sitting here sharing this story with a smile on my face. And I really struggle with that sometimes because i i don't want to come across in the wrong way. But like I genuinely have a joy
00:46:39
Speaker
on this side of it, yeah not because it happened, not because of the such a fun time going through it, not at all, but the joy that you have now. And I just see that in you and Scott. So like going from the depth, you know, the complete pit of just this wretched horrible thing that happened to like seeing you now with your family and thriving. And yes, there's always, you know, that rose that's, ah you know, in the pictures and there's always her name that's on your lips, which I love. And I remember at the beginning, not really knowing, and this is one of the things I want to have you come back and really talk about like the grief and And maybe dive deeper into some of the, you know, the practicality of like your body responding after you don't have this child to nurse anymore and stuff like that. But um just that like you've got this whole this whole journey now that you get to share yeah and that you get to live and encourage others with.
00:47:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And it's just – it's so beautiful to see you guys living – want to say living your best life. That's what the world says. Yeah, yeah. But like genuinely, of course there's that sadness. Yes. But it's it's different. Talk about that a little bit. think there's – You know, like I just told the abbreviated, somewhat detailed version of that day and I didn't lose it. You know, in the early days, I couldn't even talk about it without just sobbing. And now, like, I feel like I do smile when I talk about her because she's good.
00:48:23
Speaker
you know, I'm not. She's got it great up there. It's us here that we grieve her. Right. Yeah. And every picture I take, I see the spot where she should be. Right. Everything we do. i mean, i shared with you about being at my sister's lake house over Super Bowl weekend, and there's a room for the kids that will sleep all of them. And right above the light switch, she randomly found on one of the other walls these butterfly stickers. And right – so right above the wall switch in the kids' room, she put a butterfly sticker. And when we walked in and it's like it kind of wraps around it. And it's not something we would typically decorate with. But it's like this is for Denley.
00:49:10
Speaker
She's part of this room too. Yeah. And so – And like, I can smile and say that even though it breaks my heart that she's not physically there.
00:49:21
Speaker
Right. um So I think learn finding, I'll say this, i'm I'm not the person I was. Right.
00:49:32
Speaker
movie 11 years ago. You know, i was, i don't want to say oblivious, but what what do they say? Ignorance is bliss. yeah I, you know, i didn't know a whole lot of heartache. I hadn't had a lot of loss in my life. I hadn't, you know, and i knew the Lord.
00:49:53
Speaker
i loved Jesus, but I would have called myself a baby Christian, you know? um and And so through this journey of of grief and loss and all of it you know, there's been so much heartache, but there has been so much beauty. And I agree with you in like living my best life.
00:50:14
Speaker
I think I feel like I have something to fight for here. In the early years, it was like, or I'd say the first couple years i was like, you know, if I got cancer, I mean, this sounds terrible, but like if I got cancer and died, it's okay. Like I'll just go to heaven and see Tinley, you know, like cool.
00:50:31
Speaker
And now as like our life, not that I wanted that to happen because right I totally, yes, yes. But it, you know, death um seemed so different after losing a child. Right. Right.
00:50:44
Speaker
And now that we've gone on to have more children and, you know, we're out of like the trenches of babies and toddlers, which I already miss, but I'm also in a season of really enjoying them getting older and more independent.
00:51:00
Speaker
you know, you, I'm a new person, but I have so much to live for. and there's still so much joy there, even in the heavy and even in the sad and even in the grief. And it's like, you know, even if, you know, it's just, there's always that other side that the Lord will um reveal to you.
00:51:28
Speaker
Absolutely. And it's the Genesis 50, 20 and Romans 8, 28. He works all things yes together yeah for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. yeah um And so there is purpose in this, not that God wanted this tragedy to happen. Absolutely not. um We're living in this space between two gardens in this fallen world waiting for the return of Christ. And, um, so he's given you purpose in this and I love that. And I love that you want to share her story and just be there for other women who are going through, um it's sometimes not the exact same thing, but going through something similar and, um, could really use just someone who's been through something so tragic to lean on, um, and be encouraged by. So if there is someone that's listening, And they're just in that pit right now. And they have just they don't they don't know where to turn.
Encouragement for Grieving Parents
00:52:24
Speaker
They don't know what to do. Can you just give them offer them some words of hope or encouragement or where to turn um in this time that they're finding themselves in?
00:52:35
Speaker
I think, you know, something that comes to mind as you say that is I've talked to, I've talked to so many grieving moms over the past 11 years. And, you know, we're all part of a club that we don't want to be in.
00:52:49
Speaker
And, um you know, I've talked to several who have had a miscarriage or a fallopian, um, um like Like a tubal pregnancy. Yeah. And they're, and they're devastated, you know, and then they'll talk to me about it. And then they'll say, why am I even saying that? Like you lost your baby. You know, I shouldn't even, and I just want to say to those people, like it is still a loss. It's your loss. It's your greatest loss, you know? And so that would be my first thing is to,
00:53:24
Speaker
to let yourself grieve what you lost, no matter how big or small you think it is, um compared to someone else's story, because we all have our own story that God is writing for us. And it's not meant to be compared. It's meant to be there as a purpose to help someone else. Um, and I think my, you know, biggest encouragement would just be to pray, to turn to the Lord. I remember, Megan, I remember telling you, i get on my knees and I pray, Lord, just bring her back.
00:54:01
Speaker
I just, I'm going to open my eyes and she's going to be laying there on the bed, which is weird that I would have that thought. But I think it's just like what was in my mind. And I remember you saying to me, well, he could do that.
00:54:15
Speaker
You know, you were like, he can do anything. And you were like, I mean, he's, he's probably not, you know, but he could. And I think having that kind of faith, not that he's going to fix it the way we want him to fix it, right? He didn't physically bring her back.
00:54:33
Speaker
But minute by minute, he gave me the strength I thought I would never have to go on. And it truly is one breath at a time.
00:54:44
Speaker
So instead of being like, you know, tomorrow I'm going get up and I'm going to work out and it's I'm just going to be great, yeah you know, because that's what I, I, I remember being like, when will I feel normal again? Hmm. And after, you know, so many weeks, I'm like, I just want to feel normal. And you have to come to to terms with your your normal is new. It's a new normal. Your normal is different. And you make it, you know, what it will be. And it's little choices and little prayers and little minute by minutes, not day by day, really, even in the early days. So I think. So good. good
00:55:28
Speaker
yeah, i'm just giving yourself the grace and, and time and just get through it ah as best that you can. and I found so much comfort in being in church. i ended up doing a, um, it was called pieces of pieces of you or pieces of a I should have looked at it before I got on here, but um it was a Christian Bible study. um I did it with a Christian.
00:55:58
Speaker
She wasn't like a licensed counselor, but like a mentor. um and she she had been through a miscarriage. So she had loss as well, but we worked through it together and I found so much comfort and peace And that in like digging into my Bible and learning like what it says about loss and what it says about reuniting with loved ones in the future. And there's a lot of goodness and hope there too. oh yeah.
00:56:25
Speaker
Absolutely. For sure. That's awesome. This has been great. I always appreciate. I mean, we could talk for hours and hours, obviously. But yeah.
00:56:36
Speaker
I just so love and appreciate you. And i am so encouraged and i love that you're sharing Tinley's story. And I know there will be women that listen to this and they want to connect with you and um perhaps ask you some more questions or, you know, is there one Bible verse or is there, you know, just whatever it might be. So if people wanted to connect with you, how would they do that?
00:57:00
Speaker
um Well, you could, i' I mean, I really am an open book about this. I had people I reached out to in my early days of grief, or even if it's been years and maybe it's something you feel like you never fully faced or came to terms with. There's no better time than now. um We'll put your Instagram on. Yeah, you can put my Instagram. I mean, i I just so believe that my purpose is to help others who are experiencing grief and loss.
00:57:30
Speaker
Absolutely. i love it. yeah And you're so good at it. Oh, well, thank you. Just people that you connected with and yeah were able to encourage. And it's just that was the last thing I was really thinking is that we are so built for community and God created, you know, God is community. He's three in one.
00:57:50
Speaker
He created us for community. We are not meant to walk through any of this stuff alone. And so I'm just so encouraged by how much you have been so vulnerable to walk that out publicly and and allow people in because that's the other thing, too. It can be really easy to want to shut people out. yeah And sometimes there is a season for that when you just need to get alone with the Lord. But it's so important that you let people in and to encourage and to do life together. So yeah.
00:58:23
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you for having me on. Indeed. We've got, I mean, like I said, five topics within the first five minutes of chatting. So I've got so many different things that we're going to have Jess back on for.
00:58:37
Speaker
We're going to do some fun um at the beginning of summer. I want to talk about like mom hacks and fun things of like. how to keep boys busy just kids in general. What are some things that we can do? what are you some good recipes to share that are quick, you know, fast, we can go things like that. And then grief, obviously we'll circle back to and a number of different things. So we will get there, but thank you so much. I love you, my dear. i love you. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. All right. Thanks everybody. We'll see you next week.