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Ep 22 :: Redemption Month Pt 3 :: The Hard Times
32 Plays12 days ago
This week is heavy. Adam and Megan share about the yuckiness that led to the beginning of the end of their marriage as they knew it. Lack of communication, selfishness and going it alone led to a lack of oneness, an open door for the enemy. BUT GOD! Join them today as they lay the groundwork to understand what the Lord has done in their marriage as they continue celebrating what He has done over the last 10 years.
Adam's book suggestion: Surfing for God
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Music:
The Success by Keys of Moon
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Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi friends, welcome to Diggin' In. I'm your host, Megan. This is a place where we discuss the things that really matter in life. We cut through the surface to dive deeper. So pull up a chair because here we're Diggin' In.
00:00:17
Speaker
Welcome back to Diggin' We are in our sunroom today. it is part three of June. Redemption month is what we have dubbed it. And we just celebrated 10 years past discovery.
00:00:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's been a bit of a wild week without going into a lot of detail. Adam's dad had an accident and everything's going to be okay. He's doing well, but it's been a little bit of an emotional rollercoaster this week for sure.
00:00:56
Speaker
Glad you're here. Welcome back. Thank you. Yeah. It's good to be back. I've got Adam with me and we're doing this the rest of the month. I didn't know if I'd get asked back. Yes.
00:01:07
Speaker
Again, popular demand, high demand. You are desired to be on the podcast.
Marriage Challenges and Redemption
00:01:12
Speaker
um Anyway, it's been about of a roller coaster of a week and I was hoping that we would do something on Tuesday and kind of thinking in that we would, but it just was a while. It's been wild, but thank the Lord your dad's okay. amen Amen. So we left off last time with talking about infertility and kind of communication. if you haven't heard, especially this June, part one, part two this is part three, for context, it might help if you go back and look or listen to conversation. two episodes and if you want to even more detail than that and a little bit more backstory you can go back to episodes two three and four they give a lot more context to the greater conversation but it's not necessary to jump to do that to jump in you can start right here but we did talk about at the end of last episode kind of breakdown communication in our marriage so this whole month if you're just joining us redemption month being 10 years post discovery of infidelity in our marriage and um just kind of everything imploding and thinking that perhaps we might not survive it. But the Lord has done just an incredible, miraculous healing in both of us and done so much work. And so that's what we're trying to share.
00:02:33
Speaker
over these episodes as just a celebration of 10 years of what God's done in our marriage and through our marriage and all that good stuff. So this episode will be a little bit heavier,
Honesty and Faith in Rebuilding Trust
00:02:45
Speaker
likely. We're going to share kind of the, um not details that are not necessary, but kind of what led to uncovering um you know the yuck in our marriage and then next week we'll be rebuilding so lots of hope to come but this you know you kind of got to go down in the valley to discuss and um to be able to really give a full picture of just how much god has done so bear with us as we are a little bit of all over the place truly we prayed right before we started recording and our heart's desire is to just
00:03:21
Speaker
be transparent with our story and to be able to encourage anyone who's walked through betrayal or any other difficult season in their marriage, that you too can have victory in the Lord and He can deliver you through all of it. So that's the hope. Anything you want to add to that before we dig in?
00:03:43
Speaker
um I echo what you said as far as wanting tell our story. I think that purpose is just to to be real about the struggles that many go through.
00:03:58
Speaker
you know Two broken people coming into marriage, that describes all marriages. and so Everyone will have struggles and have challenges in that. And ours is a story of redemption, which is awesome and great. So it's just that to be real. Hopefully there are things that others can relate to and draw strength from or encouragement.
00:04:27
Speaker
um Whether that's encouragement in something they've already disclosed and that there is a pathway for redemption and hope in that, or the courage to to share hard truths and and cross that threshold to real relationship with the Lord first and foremost, trust in Him, and then to build trust in your marriage, to have that real bonding trust.
00:04:56
Speaker
um not to be at the end and go backwards, but the reality is is that we are so much closer and stronger now because of that. lot of difficulty to go through, and it's not easy. I'll never make light of that.
00:05:15
Speaker
And when I talk to several guys in ministry, i always remind them of that, that it is it is tough, and i want to be... That's okay to say that. Yeah, honest about that. You know, that's really okay to say that. And it's good to be able to get that out and say that. It's really hard.
00:05:32
Speaker
But it's so worth it in the end. And it's worth it, in this in the honestly, in the struggle. We can talk about that a little bit as well, is about the closeness that you get to... have with the Lord through the really tough, challenging times.
00:05:47
Speaker
So excited for that. I feel like we're both on the verge of emotions. Yeah, there's a lot. It's lot. I can feel it you too. It's been a lot, and we've definitely felt like spiritual warfare this week in particular, and then everything with your dad just like icing on the cake. So there may be tears, and that's okay. It's all part of the journey, but... Okay, so we left off in part three, which was just last week, or sorry, part two, in June, talking about kind of beginning of our marriage and coming into marriage both with baggage. We didn't talk in detail of that, but we both came into marriage, unfortunately, not totally pure like we would have desired. Probably a good way to sum that up. Just we both had our own paths of
00:06:38
Speaker
choosing our own flesh and following the footsteps of what culture kind of led and not to not take responsibility. It was the choices that we made, but the that created baggage for each of us going into marriage. And we both um without saying this to one another and really didn't find this out until later down the road, um kind of thought we're gonna come together and the struggles that I've had before will be gone, your struggles that were before will be gone because now we're gonna be married,
00:07:11
Speaker
One flesh covenant marriage, like everything will be fine and dandy and wonderful. And yeah, you hear from older people like, oh, marriage is wonderful, but there are difficulties and there are struggles. And we're like, yeah, everybody else, but not us.
00:07:25
Speaker
I think that's what every young couple does in love. Probably. Right? Oh, yeah. I mean, you ever classeses and you're in love. and It's great. And I think that's honestly, we talked about this a bit. I mentioned it.
00:07:39
Speaker
last week in that, you know, it the when we talked about how long of ah you know a dating and an engagement is that I think it's, I think i don't know, there's that spark of love and um
00:07:59
Speaker
true love and and so I'm really thankful that we had a somewhat quick real you know early relationship engagement because i'm so gru so grateful you said yes and and chose me and um i had a lot of baggage to bring into our marriage you know as as did you but um I'm grateful for that as far as that that honeymoon period that you do get to enjoy. And yeah, there's there is a naivete about that, I think, with all relationships where you want the best. I never went into marriage wanting to be unfaithful, never had those intentions, was never my desire for for you. I love you immensely, loved you immensely then, and um for sure thought that
00:08:55
Speaker
really truly believed, was aware and cognizant of my flaws and failures and my so my not only struggles but my, the sin, the act of sin in my life and thought that, well, this will get fixed now. This will be, this will get solved. This will this will solve that equation and that was very naive and um and And lazy too as far as just like thinking about the work that needed to be done. I was wanting something to fix. Yeah. You know, fix me.
00:09:32
Speaker
And how old were you when we got married? I was 26 I met you was 27 when married.
00:09:39
Speaker
And I was 22 when we got married. yeah So we were still very young. Yeah. Yeah. And so our quick timeline was met in March, engaged in August, married the following May. So we were we had 14 months before getting married, knowing each other, dating, engagement, planning wedding, getting married. Yeah.
00:09:58
Speaker
Which was great. yeah If I had it my way, we would have gotten married in September eloping. Oh, yeah. We wanted to get married very quickly. and i mean, the great gift, too. ive really We've said this before, but it i think it's just worth reading. I mean, we really... i enjoy... i feel like we and we've always enjoyed each other. We knew right away. i mean, i really did know. I fell pretty hard for you.
00:10:23
Speaker
knew loved you. knew I wanted to marry you. knew pretty quickly was... was um I'm glad. was definitely the Lord in that as far as making that choice and making that move. Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker
So early marriage, we kind of had, ah you know, like, i mean, in everything we're sitting here talking about, you know, like young, naivete, and then growing up and maturing. So we've been married. We just celebrated 18 years together. Well, 18 years married um in May. And so that was just a month ago.
00:10:58
Speaker
So in 18 years, you know like we're getting to that point in our lives where we will have been together as longer longer than yeah longer than we haven't, which is crazy to think about. But like the idea is that you're always growing and maturing in life. And like with anything, you know i think about even i'm i love doing sourdough and I've just now ventured into fresh milled wheat. And so when I first started sourdough, I was a baby and I didn't know what I was doing, but now I know all these techniques and things and i if I make a boo-boo, I can usually try and fix it because I've learned, I've matured in sourdough, but now I feel like it's a whole nother learning process because I'm starting something new. So the whole idea is that you're learning, you're gaining, you're you're you're being made new in the knowledge and all of that good stuff.
00:11:46
Speaker
That being obviously a just a very simple, example But um so anyway, as we were talking last week,
00:11:58
Speaker
communication struggles that started early on and kind of trying to, you know, we were both pursuing the Lord individually and then as a couple, which was wonderful. um But again, being in that and young state, ah you know, that that looked differently than it does now. And so when there were struggles, we each struggled kind of silently alone instead of together. And sometimes even now we do silently together.
00:12:27
Speaker
I struggle silently let get them just because it's my processing personality, but So after the infertility journey and all of that good stuff, ah praise God, we got pregnant. We had Noah. um And so after that, kind of in that, i think we shared a little bit last week, you got an interview for a job that would provide so that I could stay home with Noah when he was born the day that we found out that we were pregnant, which was awesome. But that job took him from where we were living in my hometown, which is where we met, married, and we're living in our...
00:13:04
Speaker
early marriage took you on the road traveling to like all over Virginia. Yeah. Throughout, throughout Virginia and Maryland and DC. Yeah. It was a pretty broad territory and a lot of driving and right.
00:13:17
Speaker
And we did a loop essentially. Yeah. Every week. We didn't want to leave where we were, but the Lord made it clear that that was not going to be sustainable. And so, yeah, you would leave oftentimes either late on a Saturday or late on a Sunday, but really lot of the time you early, early Monday morning so that we could have Sunday together.
Trust Issues and Personal Struggles
00:13:37
Speaker
And then you'd travel all week. Come home Friday. Yeah, sometimes you come home Thursday night if you could and then work from home on Fridays. but And that was pretty much my entire pregnancy.
00:13:48
Speaker
and Yeah, was. then after Noah was born, too. Right. right And then the writing was on the wall that we were going to need to move. All that to say, that was a big, you know, we look back and we we talked about it after we moved probably before everything happened in 2016, but we had talked about how we very much were a couple, but it was where I grew up and it was hard to, at least for you, well, I won't speak for you. You're sitting here, you can speak for yourself. You always shared with me that it was like, you know, I'm Megan Jesse's husband, not Adam and Megan Rafalski.
00:14:26
Speaker
It was a different dynamic. now i I mean, I loved where we live. I i loved it there. i think I probably wanted to stay more than you, honestly. That's the way I felt.
00:14:39
Speaker
I don't know if you would say that. I think I did. i think there was a sense in which you were probably ready to... go i don't know, maybe not. Maybe not. I think I had settled back in. I went and i soiled my yeah wild oats earlier, like before I met you. Yeah, it was...
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah, it was all your, of your, our friend groups were people obviously that you, a lot of people that you grew up with knew had deep, longer relationships with and knew and there were biases or not biases there regardless of that. I didn't know. And yeah, it's awkward. It's a different dynamic when we're living in your hometown and probably vice versa if you lived in mine and people knew me from, you know, long before you were there. Well, and then when started the church that we were at, and then as a married couple really started meeting younger, other young couples, and then ended up a couple, and another couple co-led a Bible study together, which was great.
00:15:45
Speaker
And we would host and switch off in that. And that was wonderful. And we met a lot of people as a married couple. but we were just trying to learn as we went, I suppose. Yeah. um And I would say like early on,
00:16:01
Speaker
There were definitely, like there were some things that happened. you know I remember back when MySpace was a thing, do you remember this? And you had left your MySpace like open and i guess you had traveled and you had communicated with someone that was at the conference or something. And nothing happened then, but that communication really upset me because I felt violated. And that was when we were engaged, we weren't even married. Um, and so there was that. And then you had shared early on um, probably after marriage. Well, that's not true. You shared before. Yeah. A struggle.
00:16:41
Speaker
Well, again, you're here. You can share yourself, but yeah, no, I had, a um, through
00:16:52
Speaker
ah most of my adolescence and young adult life with pornography and was something that I'd gone through.
00:17:03
Speaker
ah you know, it's a roller coaster of ups and downs as far as when, you know, how that it evolves as far as how you, you you know, you that struggle, sometimes you're struggling well and you can go months without, you know, temptation and seems, everything seems fine. And then there are times where it's ah a real problem, but it was always a An undercurrent.
00:17:30
Speaker
Absolutely. yeah From a young age, I think you've shared on podcasts for you, but you know same with me, a a younger age, getting exposed to that and it got its hooks in me you know pretty early and pretty deep as far as um the power it had over my life and where that became a coping mechanism for me that I wasn't even really cognizant of, of utilizing, like what what that meant or what I was doing as far as that goes. I just looked at it as ah as something that was a guy, know, a struggle for a guy to go through. And, you know, it was just something that was definitely an undercurrent and then was something that I knew was a struggle for me. I shared with you.
00:18:18
Speaker
probably shared as trying to put on a good face about it um was certainly not going to be completely upfront about the honesty with that. I wish, obviously hindsight's 20-20, but wish that I felt that comfort level to do that, but didn't want to have it make you feel in a way that was inferior, all the ways that you know that it would make you feel. And so I'd managed that sin in my life. Mm-hmm.
00:18:50
Speaker
for for years. And so I prayed you know prayed that it would be taken away and all the things shared been just in men's groups and struggles. and I remember so many times sharing that where, and and that was that's part of what I do now with other men, but even even doing this now here is that I remember feeling like which is what sin does, is that you are, I'm the only one.
New Beginnings and Community Building
00:19:19
Speaker
no one understands that struggle. It's very isolating. And I remember even sharing in other Bible studies and having guys not reflect back or or say that they were struggling as well, or they might say, yeah, I understand, but I longed for someone to
00:19:39
Speaker
echo that and say, yeah, it's really tough too. i've This is not easy and i'm I'm not only, I'm being, I'm losing the battle and I was losing the battle. i was you know Struggle, i think I talked about with you, was like implies that you are you are battling against it and you're not succumbing to it. and So I would say struggling and i really wasn't struggling, I was just succumbing to it. It was a problem in my life. yeah And so,
00:20:10
Speaker
I didn't necessarily, i felt like I was very forthright about it with others, but it was something I also managed and in the in that quiet times, isolation of my life, sure for sure.
00:20:25
Speaker
And before we did move up you know to where we are now, in the Northern Virginia area, you traveled a lot, and so you were alone a lot, and that also didn't help. You were home on the weekends, and we were plugged into a church and active in that church, and um then when we moved, we were active in a church as well, and um But back to you know kind of us moving and becoming our own like Adam and Megan Rufalski together. yeah a married couple who are known for you know being being the two of us together and you know also having our son. was really healthy and really good and we were plugged into a church. We ended up building a house when we moved to the area, which is something that we loved to do wanted to do and it was so clear that God knew, obviously, but he was very intentionally putting us right where he wanted us to be. So, um okay, so let's fast forward to 2016.
00:21:33
Speaker
Okay. um And my thought process is we'll talk about 2016, we'll talk about the falling apart, we'll briefly talk about rebuild, and then 2020.
00:21:45
Speaker
falling apart again. did um Because again, today we're gonna try and cover the heavy topics and then next week we'll talk about and focus really on the redemption. um So, 2016, it was June and you had conference in, or work trip, in New York.
00:22:08
Speaker
Chicago. No, it's New York. You took the train, I remember. Oh yeah, that's right. um And we were spreading mulch. So we, I wanted to record this in the garden, but it's really sticky outside today. And so we're in sunroom with trees in here. um But we work really well outside together. We process a lot together and all that good stuff. But this was one of the times that we were outside. We planted how many trees? It was like 50 some trees probably. A lot.
00:22:39
Speaker
There wasn't a tree on our property. Yeah, there wasn't a single tree. Well, there's one. No. One. Up at the front. Around the corner of the tree. One tree on our property. may as a amazing It was three plus acres.
00:22:53
Speaker
One single tree. So we planted a ton of trees on our property. But... We, you wanted to do pine straw. It was this whole thing. So we ordered pine straw from North Carolina. It got delivered. it was just, it was a lot of work. And I don't even know, do you remember what the argument was about?
00:23:10
Speaker
i just remember we were out under these tulip poplars that we had. Oh my goodness, that's a whole story that I'm not going to get into. But Noah and I not used to go to Costco and collect cardboard. Do you remember that? Yeah.
00:23:25
Speaker
The things, I mean. The things we did. Our neighbors sure had to think, wow. I mean, ambitious. Really redneck. I mean, it was ambitious. I love it. It was great. Yeah, it was great. Because it was a huge field. We were trying to kill the grass and weeds. Creep beds. To put mulch down. It was beautiful. It was great. It was a lot of work.
00:23:44
Speaker
It was a lot of work. Anyway, so we were out there spreading mulch, and I remember we got into an argument about something, and it just was not good. And I remember i was frustrated because I was like, of course, we're getting in an argument right before you leave. And you were leaving that evening because you had to be... Yeah. Or like that later that afternoon. i don't remember. But we got in this huge argument, and you left on not great terms. And i went... Noah and I went down to visit your sister...
00:24:14
Speaker
and my mom, you remember this? i do Yeah. So um you went north, I went south, and i remember at your sister's, I was in bed with one of her daughters, um just the way that the sleeping arrangements worked out. I was in bed, but I slept with one of her daughters, And I remember laying in bed and I was just like praying. I had this pit in my stomach and I had just seen before, like a month before, I had done ah a ladies night and it was War Room with Priscilla Schreier. And I remember in that movie when this, her husband was a sales guy, a pharmaceutical sales, and he was at dinner with this woman and she was at home in her prayer closet praying and he was like being flirtatious with this woman and he like got violently ill and was not able to you know go through with being unfaithful um you know to his wife. and So I remember laying there in bed and I was praying that you would get violently ill. Whatever was going on, I just had this feeling in the pit of my stomach that something was happening. And I remember texting you and being like, i love you. Whatever you're doing, don't do it.
00:25:29
Speaker
Do you remember getting that? i don't remember that. I remember. I remember Whatever you're doing, don't do it. Yeah. I remember. And you weren't responding. And this was before like red messages. i don't know if you actually got it. I think you could see delivered. But anyway. um so I just remember something was going on. And I didn't hear from you. And communication from you was extremely spotty the next couple days while you were gone. And that was not like you on travel.
00:25:56
Speaker
And so you are in New York. Anything you'd like to share on your side? not that we And so we definitely talked about like sharing. We're not going to go into details that are unnecessary. That's not the point. The point is to just share kind of like where we were, what our our our mindset even was.
00:26:16
Speaker
yeah i mean
00:26:19
Speaker
yeah For me, it was never... i know that I feel like the way that you're... don't know. maybe kind of set i mean I don't want to give myself the out of like where it was like some type of, oh, there's an argument and it's like I made some decision. you know like I had a i a history. It was a long takedown for me that started with pornography and masturbation and just that being a a way in which I dealt with Stress or whatever it was. However, i dealt with stress. It was a way in which i you know I'm a words of affirmation and physical touch.
00:27:00
Speaker
And so it was a way in which I dealt with those things. I i wouldn't have been able to say that at that time as far as or or cognizant of it. It just became a pattern in my life that was so entrenched by the time I was you know, 20, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 years old.
00:27:20
Speaker
And um so we're talking about 15, 16 years of that being something that i did probably early on, not from that space, but it became that.
00:27:36
Speaker
And it certainly became an addiction in my life, which I would not have wanted to admit and did not want to admit. Mm-hmm. Because that's weakness and I didn't want to admit that.
00:27:48
Speaker
And so by that time when you're talking about that, i had had made of being unfaithful already. And so...
00:27:58
Speaker
of being unfaithful already and so that is something where it's like, well, you know, I would do something and then say, oh my goodness, I'm never going to do that again.
00:28:12
Speaker
um this is terrible hit with stricken with guilt and, uh, questioning my salvation and my relationship with the Lord. And,
00:28:25
Speaker
I'll never tell anybody I made promises to myself that I can never say a word about this. And it only, you know, sexual sin always accelerates and, um, it's always going to, um, accelerate. You're going to any kind of addictive behavior for the most part, but certainly sexual sin is something where you have to, you know, you're continually accelerating that behavior into more, um,
00:28:54
Speaker
dangerous behavior, more reckless behavior. And so i was continuing to do that and not, and, and at that time, by that time certainly was out of control.
00:29:09
Speaker
And, um so sick of myself and who I, what I was doing and who had become and living a lie and um just miserable from so many so many different avenues. And looking from the outside in you know at that time was fairly successful in my career and had a ah beautiful wife and a beautiful son and a beautiful home. And so ah everything looked just wonderful from the outside. You know, we're a couple who goes to church regularly. i
00:29:56
Speaker
volunteer in church, lead Bible study, lead ministry, men's ministry fit items. you lead were We're in women's ministry. And so...
00:30:09
Speaker
there were all these just wonderful glowing things on the outside um and I was a mess. I mean, really, truly a mess. Unhealthy physically,
00:30:21
Speaker
um unhealth on just so longing for, in some ways too, you know longing to be caught um in many ways. I mean, that is part of the kind of the reckless behavior. I think it's and unconscious and it's certainly though the warring of the Holy Spirit and inside of you that can't can't have those things together.
00:30:47
Speaker
um so yeah, not that I don't not that i don't agree with what you're saying. I just, I don't want to get, make it seem like, Oh, well it's like we had this fight and you know, yeah or something like that. I don't want to, it was a, it was a entrenched problem sure in my life. Right. I just mean it was kind of like a tipping point. There were definitely things coming to a head yeah for sure.
00:31:13
Speaker
Um, I was, um you know that was the advancement know by that time like that you know iphone came out in those seven so there was i had two phones i had a work phone and i had a personal phone and um all these different ways of communication reckless behavior with company company phones yeah You were in finance at the time and so you had it wasn't Blackberry was it? I think it was just an iPhone. I had gone from different yeah devices. Yeah, it doesn't matter. But the point was, you're with the company that you were at, when you were at, during this time, you that you had to like change the password all the time or it changed it or whatever for security reasons so I never had access to that phone. No.
00:32:02
Speaker
And so in order to hide things from me, you were communicating on that device. And, um, but then also you had been communicating on your other device as well and just covering up and. Yeah.
00:32:14
Speaker
Yeah. and I guess that's what I was trying to say about accelerating is that, yeah you know, it's, it's something that you have this thing that you're hiding pornography and hiding it from my wife. And I'm, I'm fully ah addicted to that.
00:32:30
Speaker
Um, And then it's like, well, maybe i'll you know maybe you know ah you have sin. You're living with sin in your life. And I was living with sin with my life, managing sin. And the Bible talks about this, about you know a little leaven spreading throughout.
00:32:48
Speaker
And you cannot is compartmental yeah you can't compartmentalize it. and it's our human frailty to think that we can. and I definitely thought that I could. And then you take that step into, i'll just say too, we talk about unfaithfulness, you know pornography and masturbation is is unfaithfulness. I mean, it's a version of it, but it is, you are being unfaithful. um Period.
00:33:19
Speaker
Full stop. yeah So there's the the accelerating of getting into the physicality with other women is a quite frankly a natural next step into that.
00:33:31
Speaker
And so then once you do that, it's like, well, I've already done this. So you have you make all these agreements with yourself. and It's a toxic spiral and so yes, at that point, by 2016, those things were all coming to a head. it was very difficult for me to continue to lie about those things. It was hard for me to live with myself because I very much loved you.
00:33:55
Speaker
You know, I've said that. it It obviously sounds, and I understand the way that that sounds. I say that often. I understand that that seems, how is that possible? um It's possible. um And i didn't want to lose you at all. And that was that was the biggest fear in my life at that time. was very fearful person. And I was extremely afraid of losing losing you and not having you in my life and having you walk out on me. And I was certain that if I...
00:34:34
Speaker
were to come clean or be honest that you would, that that would be ah the next step in that and that i would that I would lose you and lose our marriage and you yeah lose our son in connection with my son and have all that. So that was just like, that that was I'd rather die.
00:34:52
Speaker
than have that happen. yeah So without going into all the details and and um and not that we're not open to that, that's just not the purpose of this podcast today, but suffice it to say,
00:35:09
Speaker
Summary, um you came home from that trip. There were some behaviors that I noticed from previous times that you had traveled and you know just really clingy and needy and extremely insecure and needing affirmation from me. Didn't you miss me? like you just You needed to hear yeah that I loved you and I missed you and it was just so terrible being away from you. and You had done that several times before.
00:35:37
Speaker
And so my radar was up and I went into investigation mode and kind of like backstory, i had really been in the in the previous three years pursuing, well I mean, in the previous 10 years of my life at that point, you know prior to meeting you and like, I really have been pursuing my relationship with the Lord. And so what that looked like at that time in my life, in particular, three years prior to this date,
00:36:05
Speaker
The Lord had really laid it on my heart to pray for you and I'm like your salvation was secure since you were a little boy You know you gave your life to Christ and all that good stuff was baptized by your grandfather, you know wonderful But the prayer the specific prayer that the Lord gave me was that you would have a deep and abiding relationship with him and then it would be real and that would be manifest in your life And so that prayer like kind of took on different shape, and you know but I had prayed prayed that consistently for three years. So up to that point, i the Lord had been preparing my heart too, um kind of for where what was about to be unloaded. um and so
00:36:49
Speaker
noticed all this behavior, went into investigation mode and uncovered some text messages, excuse me, some text messages and things of that nature and ended up, we sat down one night and I pretty much said like, I need to know everything. If I don't, we don't have a marriage. Like there's just nothing that we have to move forward with. um And you kind of divulged that, you know, while you were in New York that you had kissed a woman. Yeah, I disclosed what I thought I could manage. and That you could get away with, yeah right. I was like, okay, making calculations and yeah trying to salvage what I could or i thought you could. What I thought could be stomached. Yeah. and
00:37:29
Speaker
Right. And so that was hard for sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was the first... was devastated. you know First round. hole you know yeah Hole in the curtain. It was like a little bit of light coming in. yeah know Yeah.
00:37:44
Speaker
And so from that point, I pretty much demanded, well, first of all, I made you sleep upstairs in our guest bedroom. And I demanded that you make everything seem normal for Noah. He was very young at the time. I didn't want him to know anything and I didn't want him to be, you know, I just didn't want him to to to know what was going on. um but didn't want anything to be out of the ordinary for him.
00:38:14
Speaker
ah And so it was like, you're going to sleep upstairs, you're going wake up in the morning, you're going to make that bed, you're going to come downstairs before he has a chance to wake up.
Counseling and Recovery Journey
00:38:22
Speaker
um And at the time, you were traveling a bunch for work um just to the office. It was a long commute. And so often you would leave before he was even awake. um And there would be days where I'd be out in the garden already. I'd get my coffee and go out there and I'd be pruning or, you know,
00:38:41
Speaker
oftentimes talking to myself, talking to the Lord, very angry, but I was like, i called my um mentor at the time and I was just told her everything and that I didn't know what to do. Well, I asked her if I could come over and we met.
00:38:57
Speaker
And she said, you know, her husband had been working through this with several other men and had walked through a book with them and would probably be willing to meet with you. And so i pretty much told you you were going to be meeting with him, yeah whether you wanted to or not. And we knew this couple from church, and I was closer with her just serving together in women's ministry, but you more knew Tim as acquaintances. Yeah, he was an elder in the church, and...
00:39:27
Speaker
That's how I knew him. i knew him I knew him very hardly at all. Right. And so i pretty much told you like, you're doing this and you're doing it now. And so y'all started meeting, which was great. I definitely was hopeful.
00:39:44
Speaker
I'll say, um I think obviously there's, you know, the grieving process, there was a ton of anger. i was so mad at you and, to back up just a little bit, there had been times in our marriage that you had struggled and shared that you were struggling with masturbation. And I always pornography and masturbation, but I always felt like, and i told you every time that you would come to me, like I was so thankful that you were telling me, I was so thankful that you trusted me to be vulnerable in that and to tell me in those moments. And so
00:40:18
Speaker
I would always say, like when you're feeling that, like leading up to those moments, can you please tell me we can be together in this, we can pray, and we can, you know, all this, that and the other. and in the moments, you were very touched by that. I feel like you were emotional and like, yeah, I know that's what I need to do But at that point, I think there had already been some physical relationships with other women and at that point I think that you know with that emotion perhaps you were even like emotional about not being fully honest with me probably yeah yeah I think so yeah so I knew that there was a struggle and so i thought that like that was the you know the culmination of it But there was something in my spirit that just knew that wasn't it. And so you had met with Tim with for like three or three weeks, I guess at that point. And there was a lot of them between, um, you know, you had gone, well, you hadn't gone yet. Um, but you had been meeting with Tim. I was talking to your best friend at the time. I was like, I just know that there's something else. so He's not telling me everything. And he was like, I don't know. I've raked him over the coals a few times. Like I, if there's anything, then he's really lying to me. And I, you know, I'm like,
00:41:30
Speaker
well, I'm sure he's lying to you because I just know that that's not it because there was this block spiritually when I was praying, like i was angry. i knew immediately i was called to forgive you, but I couldn't in my heart fully forgive you. And I couldn't understand why. and so I just kept feeling like there's more, but I don't know what it is. And you weren't forthcoming with it.
00:41:54
Speaker
It was really strange because like even though it was so painful and it hurt so bad I wanted to be close with you again and so I wanted to forgive you and I wanted to move forward in that but I couldn't and so you take over the story from there when you were meeting with Tim one night on our back porch.
00:42:14
Speaker
Oh yeah, so to to say, yeah, I sensed that for sure. it was sweet. You were really, really wanting to build trust with me again. And so immediately i I think I let you come back down to our bedroom, but i was like, don't touch me. Yeah. but Yeah, that one that was good. And I would, I started doing things like praying for us.
00:42:40
Speaker
Um, And I would do lots of things like you know trying to serve you well and yeah obviously you were very upset and I was fully prepared for that. and um Meeting with Tim every week, a couple times a week, and reading books, Surfing for God, you can put it in the show notes. It's a great book. um I have copies in my office I still utilize with guys that I meet with. And so um it's just a great book about sexual addiction and the recovery and the redemption and the process through it. And so we were reading through that and going through it and talking about it. and
00:43:22
Speaker
I was really struggling with um the fact that I wasn't fully honest with you and could see that,
00:43:33
Speaker
um you know, we were starting to, you know, there was mending that was occurring. It wasn't like, you know, earth shattering, but there was mending occurring and you were working on trusting me. And, um and so,
00:43:52
Speaker
walking through that was difficult because it was, i could, I could feel and sense that there was an opportunity to share everything and be rid of it. Um, in that sense of like this big, heavy thing that I was carrying around, but there was a still so much fear about,
00:44:13
Speaker
oh my goodness, and like now I have to go back and say more, and that I wasn't honest, and just dealing with that. Just lying on top of lying. Yeah, and then just had become such a liar that there were so many things that I would lie about.
00:44:30
Speaker
Even silly things. Just and unnecessary things. It was just ah habitual in that in that sense. and so um But it was the holy Spirit was for sure... I mean, I was at war, like driving to work and i would cry, you know, I was very emotional during that time and I would search scripture for outs, ways in which I thought, well, you know, i remember going through David and I've always identified with David in the Psalms and loved, loved that. And
00:45:04
Speaker
um saying like you If you read in scripture, yeah there's really no there's no um telling in the story about him you know coming clean and and necessarily he confessed it all the Lord. And um you know,
00:45:26
Speaker
So there was this sense of like, well, maybe I don't have to do that. Maybe I can just confess it to you, Lord, and you know. and But obviously that is very contradictory to Scripture in many other ways about confessing your sins to one another. and um And then obviously just the separation that occurs in marriage and And so there was ah it was a big struggle for for me to to to walk through it. It's like I knew what I had to do, but I did not want to do it at all. I was really resistant in fighting it and wanting and hoping for some way, an alternative way that meant that I would not have to to walk through it myself. Still very much a coward, still very fearful. And so um we continued to walk that for you know a few weeks. throughout the month of June and some into July.
00:46:16
Speaker
And, um, but it became very clear to me as we, as I continued to meet with Tim and I was not, this was all internal. This was just me struggling with this at work.
00:46:30
Speaker
And, um, I mean, i I think I, like I did call Focus on the Family. They have a counseling, because I was listening to so many podcasts and sermons and and really just trying to fill my heart with good things.
00:46:47
Speaker
and encouragement and i called at one point like looking for counseling services and like hung up and didn't want to do that because I was worried about talking. wanted to talk to somebody that didn't know me that would give me counsel. And then the author of the book, his wife, I was looking up things on their website And she gave a testimony to a group of men and women.
00:47:19
Speaker
um And she spoke just very eloquently about, they they were on there together and they were talking much like this about the their path in marriage and how they both individually went through it and how they went through it together. And, um, at the end of her testimony or at the end of the talk and into the testimony, she, you know, turned to the group of men there and, and while she turned to the group and then said she was speaking to the men or anyone who is,
00:47:51
Speaker
struggling with disclosure to say that you are robbing yourself, but you're robbing the ability of the other person to fully forgive you if you don't say everything.
Full Disclosure and Healing
00:48:06
Speaker
She's like, even if you say 99%, you're never going to be forgiven. And so it is this cycle of where You long to be forgiven. I longed to be forgiven by you, but I was not i was not entrusting you with that. I was not giving that over and I wasn't telling you everything. So it was like this cycle that you have internally where you're wrestling with the Lord and quite frankly wrestling with the that prongs of the devil where he's saying,
00:48:37
Speaker
yeah you can't say those things they're never going to understand she'll never love you um she'll never forgive you you can't say you know that it won't work out you you can't trust this this god who says that you need to and so she was saying that you know you're you're never going to have that you're you're you're you're you're sealing your fate as far as being able to be forgiven And so just you have to come 100% clean with all the things and everything in order to do it. And that sounded so good to me. And um and i just longed for that. And so i cried. I cried and i knew i had to do that. And... um
00:49:24
Speaker
And so I just, and I so wanted a relationship with the Lord. Like the other thing, that the other aspect of that was I really felt was getting these tastes and glimpses of trusting the Lord, having faith in Him being His and being sealed in felt like,
00:49:43
Speaker
his child and being sealed in that i felt not saved. I mean, I don't know how biblical that is, but I definitely felt like I am living in sin. I'm living in sin and i want to be yours. And so I really, i knew what I had to do, but didn't want to still. And so I did eventually get to the point where I had made the decision I was going to. I knew I had to, but again, big coward. Um, I was so fearful. I knew that if I could just tell somebody that would hold me accountable to it, that that would get through it.
00:50:26
Speaker
And so I did meet with Tim and i told him, I told him everything. And I said, to tell you everything, at all all of it. And I need you to hold me accountable to telling Megan. And that was a Tuesday or maybe a Monday. Because I then met with my other my friend as well who was walking, was my best friend and walking through all this with us. They were a couple close in age and um and I respected him and and loved him very much and knew he would also
00:51:03
Speaker
I knew that he would be there for me and i knew that he would not turn away and I knew he would hold hold me true to my word. and i mean I remember talking with Tim and saying, like I'm probably going to need a place to stay and they were totally fine with that and willing to make those arrangements. and and so ah I did that and then that was a Friday that I told you and I remember too that was just and it was 100% talk about spiritual warfare. um as you said we were you were really wanting to get close and
00:51:44
Speaker
move forward and heal And so i was at work and you texted me that day, you know, um my best friend's parents were out of town and they had a pool and um Megan, was you said, hey you know, leave work early and we would go went to this farm that had donut peaches and they were in season and, you know, we can go pick those. We used to love going and doing that together with Noah and then we can grow out and,
00:52:15
Speaker
swim and i was like, oh, and I had chosen this Friday that I was, this is what I was, you know, planned it. And it was like this Friday, that evening, going to tell Megan. And I was like, oh my goodness, like this is, and so I had this sense in which it's like, well it's gonna be okay, like maybe I don't have to say anything.
00:52:36
Speaker
Because it's like, is it was crazy. So I did go home and we went and we had a wonderful afternoon. It was so great and you were so kind, you had not been very kind and rightfully so. um You were just, I think you touched my shoulder at one point.
00:52:55
Speaker
you know I was like, oh my goodness, this is great. um It was great. We had such a good time and we hung out that night. It was such a sweet time. And it really was like giving me a glimpse. I've told you, it was like giving me a glimpse of like, this is what it could, it can be.
00:53:13
Speaker
Um, but you've got to be honest and you've got to be a man and you've got to step into this and you've got to be a man of God and trust me in that. And, and so we put Noah to bed or yeah, put Noah to bed and I came downstairs and I said, I need to talk to you. And I knew you like you were, you knew right away, like I didn't normally talk like that to you.
00:53:40
Speaker
So was like, I really need to talk to you. and you We had the TV on, and I was like, can you turn the TV off? I said, I remember sitting there, because we had gotten to, and just in our coming and going of life, fallen into patterns. Noah, when we talked to him, he was like, yeah, dad used to come home, and he'd have the mail, and he'd bring the mail into the kitchen, and he'd put it on the counter, and he'd get almonds, and he'd eat almonds and tear up the mail. Yeah.
00:54:08
Speaker
But we had just this pattern of like you would come home and either i would have dinner ready or almost ready, but I was usually preparing dinner. Noah was young at the time, so he had an earlier bedtime.
00:54:20
Speaker
And um so then we would eat together, do bath time, bedtime routine, get him to down, and then we would just have the news on. And it would be like the news until like 9 or so, and then we'd be done with news, maybe watch some sports, and then eventually we would make it to bed. But it was just like a pattern of behavior. And so the TV was on and I remember sitting there, and I just felt like we had we had had this great evening and whatnot, and I just felt like, well, maybe we'll just – leave the opening the door open for conversation. And so I said, we don't have to watch this if you don't want to. And you were like, yeah, that'd be good. Let's turn it off. And I was like, at that point you were like, I need to talk, I need to tell you something. And I was like, yeah my stomach dropped.
00:55:05
Speaker
So... Yeah, and then I just proceeded to tell you you know everything. um didn't didn't Still didn't want to, but it was just I knew I had to, and I knew I had told people I was going to and um and it was really, really difficult, but you know the the juxtaposition of that is that it was so freeing. um i would encourage anybody um who's wrestling with that to it.
00:55:36
Speaker
do it to, to move forward in that because for me, yes, it was, it was, it was horrible, um, terrible, but I was finally free of this secrets and sin that I'd carried for so long.
00:55:52
Speaker
Um, and it was a sense of like, I remember thinking in the moment, like I, cause you had, I, the lie, I mean, the, um, the strongholds of the enemy are so real.
00:56:06
Speaker
Um, and i remember Processing it and and being like, you know, like Okay, I'm alive like I'm still alive because I was had convinced myself that I would die yeah if I had come out with this, you know, and if I had said this so it was really difficult and you were obviously just crushed you know crushed and fortunately I had really good counsel, um, which I would encourage anybody who is going through that and thinking about it. We, we talk about like a lot of this at, um, at men's group is that, you know, but as you think about it, have, have a ah support group around you as you are preparing or want to is to have, have men have, have men around you that are there to support you and counsel you. And,
00:56:58
Speaker
And i was really had had such good counsel, I'm so grateful for it, um that you know he prepared me to say that you know you have to realize that there is gonna be a sense of of that that elation. Relief, yeah. From you, and you are taking all this stuff that you've carried, that you have full knowledge of, that you know that you're letting go of and you are dumping it on your wife.
00:57:27
Speaker
Or in anybody else's case, your husband, whoever that might be, but you're dumping it on your wife. And she's hearing all of this for the first time. you know The reality of it, whether she had suspicions or not,
00:57:40
Speaker
or heard parts of it, it's all coming crashing down ah into her world and her orbit for the first time and she's gonna, you've processed it for years and you've processed now the reality of that situation and all of it. So your your brain and your heart have all had this time to go through it and so you've gotta be patient and ready for whatever that might look like. um asking questions and answering questions. He gave me a lot of counsel about that around um details and what you may ask and what you may want to know. And I'm so grateful for that because I would have been so ill-prepared walking into that just...
00:58:28
Speaker
blindly. Not that the Lord couldn't carry all of it, of course and he can, but I look at him carrying, his carrying is that counsel that I received, that good good, godly, biblical counsel and prayer over that time. And so, yeah, it was your world came, your, your everything that you thought was real was, and even again, even though you had suspicions, I think that it's just that it, it,
00:58:53
Speaker
it doesn't change the hurt or the reality of like you coming face to face with that. yeah And so, yeah that was the beginning of you know i finally getting through and finally being honest with you and telling you everything. And and it was great to be known.
00:59:14
Speaker
That's the lie too I think I want to talk about just briefly is My one desire, um or one of your desires, obviously in marriage or any relationship, is to be known and be loved for who you are.
00:59:30
Speaker
good or bad. you know they They love you. you know We say often, you know i i love the I love all of you. and the The good and the bad, I know. I still love you. and that is such a um That's what our Jesus does for us. He loves us no matter what, our good and our bad. and He loves us purely and fully more than any human ever could.
00:59:52
Speaker
and That is our desire on this earth. That's certainly the desire you have with your spouse is that they would they would love you fully and they they know they know all your wonderful qualities and they know you're you're not so great qualities and that they love you all to still and that gives a depth of a relationship and that gives trust and intimacy and you get to enjoy all of that and you have knowledge of that you know it um And it it it's the best gift that we get to enjoy in marriage is that that ability to to be known and and know somebody and know that they love you.
01:00:30
Speaker
um It's the same type of love that hopefully most have gotten to enjoy with their parents, where your parents know you and they love you regardless, even though they met you may have hurt them.
01:00:42
Speaker
um but it's a whole nother level because it's like you're choosing one another yeah and you have this covenant you know with one another. And thinking of Christ and the church, right? Absolutely. So when you're living in sin and living in lies,
01:01:02
Speaker
you want that with somebody but you you can't ever have it and even when you would say you love me and you would tell me and you talked about how i would say you know oh do you do you love me do you did you miss me that's that insecurity of just dying to hear that and like reassure all of insecurities which is that if you if you knew all this about me you wouldn't love me And that's what Satan does. That's what the enemy does is say she doesn't love you.
01:01:34
Speaker
If she knew everything about you, she would kick you to the curb. You're worthless. You're horrible person. And so you just live in this prison that you've built for yourself that is, will never
Rebuilding Trust and Forgiveness
01:01:49
Speaker
yield. Even when you get the adoration that you so desire and you get the affirmation, the words of affirmation, the physical touch,
01:01:58
Speaker
It's empty because it's you you that person doesn't know and you know that they don't know and you you are just miserable. So that is the thing that we get to experience now that I'm so grateful for is that I know you know the depravity of my being and you you still choose to love me, you still choose to be with me, you still choose to trust me.
01:02:24
Speaker
It's because of your relationship with the Lord, but it's also just the the work that the Lord has done between us. So that's the other side of it too, that i want to encourage people in is that
01:02:37
Speaker
i can't I can't explain that, how important that that was to me and is to me now. um But that was the beginning of that. That was finally the beginning of you, me saying, here I am.
01:02:50
Speaker
I've done a lot of bad things and i've hurt I'm hurting you and I've hurt you. you know will you What are we gonna do with that? you know What are we gonna do? And that was that first night.
01:03:03
Speaker
Yeah. Kind of the second wave, um which is, you know, we both talk about in betrayal ministry, you know, the dump truck, like that you alluded to, like this whole weight that's now coming off of you. And it's like,
01:03:23
Speaker
feels so good but it is unloaded onto the person on the other side um and that can be suffocating and I will just say like that night when you shared that obviously it was a really really difficult thing to hear and to be able to ah certainly didn't process it in one night but even in that not the initial moment but I would say within about five minutes after I ran the bathroom and got violently ill after that there was this like
01:03:56
Speaker
okay, we're at the bottom now. like we' This is this is it like now we can Now we can make progress. Now we can move somewhere. So there was this very strange piece that I had because i knew like this is it now. you know um So yeah, the next few weeks were pretty ugly, i would say. Yeah, it was really hard. It was really, really hard. And we were scheduled um a couple weeks later to go visit your parents. um It was the summertime, and so we would try and get up there for like a long weekend to visit them. and
01:04:37
Speaker
We were scheduled to do that and it was probably a few weeks that I would get on my bike and just ride my bike. you know Noah was doing, he was in preschool and then I think he did like a VBS um during that time because I remember in particular I had two different friends that had picked him up on two different days that I was just really struggling and you were going to work every day and um but you were back to sleeping upstairs for a little bit, i remember.
01:05:08
Speaker
because there was just so much to process, so much. um And this whole new wave of anger, and then the obvious, like what does that mean for our marriage what does this look like moving forward how could i ever trust you again like and then re like thinking about you you almost live your life in reverse for a little bit because you're analyzing every single thing that's happened through a different lens and now you know i know one of the things that um i talked to women about and that was really difficult and hard for me to process was like when was this all happening? And that's what some of the detailed questions that I did want to know. And you were hesitant and I will just touch on that briefly. You did have wonderful counseling and I just could tell too, just in your spirit, even though I was angry and wanted to physically hurt you i you, were so contrite and just like willing in that moment to answer my questions. And you did say, you know, like,
01:06:13
Speaker
I've been advised that it's probably not wise to, you said, I'll answer any question that you have, but I just want you to know that I've been advised that it's not um necessarily a great idea to give all the explicit details because it could cause, you know, it could give other stumbling blocks or hurdles to, you know, overcome or whatever. And I was like, I don't care, basically. And unfortunately, used some extremely foul language. Yeah.
01:06:42
Speaker
in my anger and was like, this is my life and this is our marriage. And you're going to tell me what I'm asking you. And, you know, hindsight always being 2020, I think that there's definitely some things that i in the years to come had to then go back and heal from and process and work through our dogs in here moving around. hear some noise. She just woke up from a nap.
01:07:07
Speaker
um to heal from and process because I had asked some some detailed questions. And you know i think part of it is you know being able to process, like I wanted to know when and where and who and all these things. um and so you know that is individually, that's different for every couple and for everyone. um But it definitely, i mean that was wise counsel. It created some things that I later had to to overcome as far as from a struggling perspective. So, i think we are coming up on, oh i had a timer going to keep us straight. We're at about an hour, a little over an hour. okay
01:07:47
Speaker
There's a whole nother wave to talk about. Yeah. Um, and I think that it's important just as we're kind of, I think I want to wrap this one and we'll come back and talk about, more of it later, but in the processing of everything that you find out and you hear and, and all of that, um it's okay to mourn the loss of the marriage you thought that you had. Because I think that that is something that I know at least for women that I have spoken with can be really difficult. It's like, especially when there are children in the home, you feel like you've still got to keep all these plates spinning and keep a happy face on. And we were part of a supper club at the time and you know, like trying to, are dates on the calendar of things that we're supposed to do and go and like your parents, you're going to go be with your parents, um, which we can talk about later. That ended up being a really healing weekend for me to be alone with the Lord. um but there's like, there's things that you you still had to go to work every day, you know, and yeah, there's practical, you know, things that have to happen. Right. There's,
01:09:04
Speaker
Yeah, there's all the the life the life things that continue, which are sometimes okay, sometimes good. Sometimes helpful distractions, for sure. To have that going forward. but Yeah, I mean, there are practical ways to to keep going. I mean, we can yeah we can talk about lots of different... Yeah, i don't want to go into too many things as we look at it, but I mean, there were very practical things in the beginning, too, that were good as far as building trust. And I offer... you know I was given, good again, good counsel about...
01:09:39
Speaker
you know changing my email and changing my phone number and offering what are things coming to you and saying, these are the things that I could think of yeah that I think would help build trust. And you know are there are there any other things that you would want me to do to be able to build that trust? And you were not like, that's the, you always stress is that Well, my first reaction was like, you want me to answer questions like you go figure it out, you know? Yeah, yeah. That was not very nice. Well, yeah. At first, for sure. You have to be able to to give grace to that and just say okay, you know, like, got it.
01:10:16
Speaker
That's great. You know, there is a, I mean, it may sound silly, but there is a sense in which you're like, someone's, being really mean to you, you know, back to you about those things that you're offering. It's you can get, you can get your rear end on your shoulders. It's important just to come with that humility and yeah work on building that trust and just continue to go to bat every day. And I mean, that was so important in me is that I had a great outlet and counsel to be able to go and vent certain items, whatever was going on or my frustrations with like, I did this and this and this and she just threw it back in my face, you know, and it's like, okay, great. You know, like brother and have someone pray with you and, and counsel you and just continue to give you practical things to keep moving forward, going to work and performing and doing those things. Well, like you have to provide and,
01:11:10
Speaker
protect your family and you can't just, you know, you have to be able to figure out how to do that. Um, obviously with the care and nurture of the Lord, I mean, that's one thing that talked about.
Marriage Vows and Faith Renewal
01:11:23
Speaker
There is a sweetness, um, and we can talk about this more too, because it I think it really came out during the 2020 years too, but there is such a sweetness that I had a closeness with the Lord because everything was stripped from both of us. I mean, like you said, the, the death,
01:11:40
Speaker
of the life and marriage that you thought you had can be very isolating and very depressing. And when you lean into the Lord in that and you cast your anxieties on Him,
01:11:55
Speaker
there is a oh, did he should ever show up in my life and just love and care on me and um have so, just this, that sweet, simple trust in the Lord, that simple faith. I mean, for me, that was a time period where I had so many complexities and ah talk about juggling plates, you know, of things that I was trying to keep up and lie about and and worried every moment about something.
01:12:26
Speaker
What did I say? Did I say this? How did I say this? Did I leave this out here? Is this going to get seen? There was such a peace and calm of just, okay, like I'm just going to take it a day at a time with you and and with the Lord and know i'm going to get the sun's going to come up tomorrow and I'm going to try again.
01:12:47
Speaker
and you know I'm so grateful you gave me that opportunity. and You could have kicked me out of the house. There's a lot of other options that were on the table for you that didn't happen that I think was also helped. yeah you know Even just me being there and even though I was, you know it's like we were having conversations, but I was there and I was around and present.
01:13:11
Speaker
Yeah, and I will say, i know for sure the counsel that you received in in just the sense of being willing to continue to extend grace, extend grace.
01:13:24
Speaker
For that first few months, like, i think there may have been like one time that you kind of were like, and I just gave you a look and it was like gone because it was like,
01:13:37
Speaker
I mean, I don't want to say justified because I don't think you know any kind of backlash is ever justified. It's understandable, right? like My response is understandable, certainly in the world's eyes. But at the same time, like as a believer, as a Christian, like that's not what I'm called to do. you know So there was certainly behavior that I had to go and repent of. you know And just like the nastiness. I mean, I know that the anger in me, I wanted you to hurt as bad as I hurt, you know, because I was just so mad and hurting, and you know, and it just yeah certainly manifested in all kinds of different ways. And so you would, you would try and be super sweet. You would do, you did the dishes, like you've always been helpful, but there were certain things that like you, again, we got,
01:14:22
Speaker
into patterns of behavior where it was just like, it's just what I do. I drink a glass and then I put it, you would at least put in the sink, but it would be like, really? It's in the sink. Just one more step into the dishwasher. And you like, that has been one of the things that has continued for 10 years is like, you very often do the dishes. You do the dishes more than I do the dishes. And that has, I'm, you know, your words of affirmation and physical touch, and I am acts of service. all day long and so when you stepped in and you did that even when i was angry there would be times certainly in my mind where i was like yeah you better do the dishes it's the least you can do you know like even though my heart posture wasn't good about it um you were still doing that and you were serving and loving and so i just want to encourage the betrayer in the marriage whoever if it's the wife or the husband you have to be willing to continue to walk in humility post complete you know full disclosure you know of course you think okay now i'm out with it now i'm being honest it's like well there's a lot there's a lot to work through that And so to just continue to show up every day and to continue to have a contrite and humble spirit and be willing to be dragged over the coals, be willing to, you know, whatever it is, because the other person needs you to live like Christ for them in that moment. um
01:15:50
Speaker
And that that is literally, you know, it always makes me think back to, and now again, when we counsel with couples or, you know, sometimes we do a lot more individual counseling, Adam with men and me with women, obviously. But this is, you know, you stand on your wedding day before a pastor often and the Lord and a congregation of people that are all there to celebrate your wedding and so frequently it's all about that wedding day and it's all about the party that's going to happen and the celebration and the dress and the flowers and the pictures and the cake and all these things and oftentimes in these moments that are so difficult and hard what's forgotten is the actual marriage vows that you take and the vows that you make with the lord and to one another
01:16:43
Speaker
and it's for sickness and in health, for better or for worse. You're living in the sickness, you're living in the worse. That's where you actually get to hold up your end of the bargain, your end of the covenant, and continue to, no matter what, yeah hold up your side of it.
01:17:00
Speaker
No, it's, um I i'd think of the our old pastor who we went to a couple of weddings that he did of people in our church. And he would say, you know, that the everyone will say, know, it's fifty fifty You know, you're you're making ah making a hole there with your each giving your your own. But it's not. It's 100-0. Like, you could be giving...
01:17:22
Speaker
all you have and that other person is giving you nothing because they are sick and and that doesn't mean like the flu you know they are sick and they are unwell and me mean can be i mean it can be i think so often that's the way i looked at it was like sickness and health just meant like oh yeah i'm go to take care of my wife when she's sick right And it's like, well, are you going to take care of her when she's giving you nothing?
01:17:47
Speaker
And are you going to continue to do that for as long as you both shall live? You know? i know. And that's what you're saying on that day. and and it's so important to be reminded of that. I mean, you were talking about... doing marriage vows. i mean, it would probably be really healthy to do that every year to say those vows, remind yourself of those vows. And what that means is that you are committing to that person. It's a covenant. It's not a contract. It's God's idea.
01:18:18
Speaker
It's to reflect, you know, his covenant love of us and, you are You have to be willing to give all that you have and that person may not give anything back.
01:18:34
Speaker
It's not a transaction in that sense. And I very much early on in our marriage looked at it as that. I'm going to give this, but i'm I'm doing this because I'm expecting that you're also going respond and you're going to give me the things that I want. And I very much looked at many things like that, but certainly our marriage where I did that. And and that was the first time in my life Our dog is making all kinds of noise. Sorry about that.
01:19:08
Speaker
But that was the first time in my life where I was stepping out in faith and doing that and trusting the Lord. And it was hard. It's really, really hard. this is For me, it was very, very difficult um to continue to lay down my life, continue to love and not get anything in return. Mm-hmm.
01:19:29
Speaker
But that's where I was talking about the closest with the Lord. i did get much in return. I did get the love of the Lord. I did learn what the love of Christ felt like. I learned to hear the voice of the Lord. and And that's so sweet and so good and better than any love that a human can provide because there's a peace, an unbelievable peace in your life and a contentment that I had never experienced up to that point in my life no at all.
01:19:56
Speaker
And it's a sweet thing that you can't manufacture. No.
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:20:01
Speaker
Awesome. All right. Well, that's a good pausing place for this evening or for this episode, I should say.
01:20:09
Speaker
Thanks for doing this. I know it's a hard, it's, it's heavy stuff. It's not hard. Like, cause we're on the other side of it. And so it is sweet to be able to kind of look back and think back and, um,
01:20:24
Speaker
just marvel at what God has done. So so thankful for that. Thankful that we're both still sitting here. And it's the nothing that we've done. That's what I always tell women, especially when we first start, is like there's nothing different between me and you and my story and your story. The only thing that...
01:20:44
Speaker
it takes of us is to be willing and being a willing vessel. And so that's all we can do. because the Lord's a gentleman, he's not going to barge his way in and he's able, but we have to be willing. So thanks for being willing.
01:21:01
Speaker
Yeah, same to you. All right. We'll see you next week and we'll keep the conversation going. Okay. We'll come back and keep on digging. Digging
01:21:14
Speaker
See you next time.