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Ep 14 :: Katy Talento :: Nunnery to Naturopath by way of The Oval Office
45 Plays17 days ago
Buckle up folks! Katy Talento is in the house today and although this is the "Diggin In" podcast, we had to start somewhere. Consider this a sampler platter - a little bite here, a little bite there. We discuss her unconventional career path, infertility, raising boys, the "SICKcare" model, are we birthing right and much more.
Katy Talento is a Harvard-trained epidemiologist, naturopathic doctor, and former Trump White House health policy advisor & Special Assistant to the President. She spent two decades inside the DC healthcare machine, then left to help everyday people and employers outsmart it. She writes at KatyTalento.com and you can follow her over on Instagram as well.
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For more go to: MySeedsOfHope.com
Music:
The Success by Keys of Moon
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Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Diggin' In'
00:00:02
Speaker
Hi friends, welcome to Diggin' In. I'm your host, Megan. This is a place where we discuss the things that really matter in life. We cut through the surface to dive deeper. So pull up a chair because here we're Diggin' In.
00:00:19
Speaker
Welcome back to Dig It Buckle your seatbelts, my friends. It is going to be a fast, action-packed hour, probably, with Katie Tolento. I am so excited to have you on the podcast. we first of all, just welcome. I'm glad you're here.
00:00:32
Speaker
Thank you. It's so nice to be here with you. I love it. Katie is so
Katie and Megan's Collaborative History
00:00:36
Speaker
much fun. She and I met back in all the COVID craziness, and we were you know part of a team that was working on you know bodily autonomy and just being able to make our own decisions as far as healthcare goes and all that good stuff. And Katie is just an incredible wealth of knowledge. She's done everything, I feel like. You know, your bio, I was just reading it again before I jumped on the air. I was laughing out loud, not just like LOL. No, I literally was laughing out loud because everything that she writes as well is just in her voice. And you can hear her saying it as you're reading it. So if you're not following her sub stack, I've got all the things that will link in the show notes that you can go follow her. She has incredibly helpful resources. deep dives into all kinds of aspects when it comes to the medical industry and all that good stuff. So
Katie's Personal and Professional Background
00:01:22
Speaker
let's dive in. I want to hear more from Katie, how you got from little girl through a nunnery in a White House to what are you doing nowadays?
00:01:33
Speaker
Who's Katie? Yeah. Who is this girl? Well, I definitely don't know what I want to be when I grow up. I think that's quite clear. Um, And I may never figure that out until the the other side of the veil. But um yeah, so I grew up kind of in the suburbs. I was born in Texas, but I grew up here where you and I live in Northern Virginia. And um I kind of hated it, was always looking to get out.
00:01:56
Speaker
And my sort of health history is that food was love, still is. And, um you know, it was the eighty s It was the 70s and eighty s So it was like all processed food all the time. At the time, the food villain was fat. yeah so you could have complete processed carby crap and it was health food. It was amazing.
00:02:16
Speaker
um And so as a result, I was morbidly obese by the time I was in my 20s. Oh my God. And yeah, so that was something else. I actually had weight loss surgery when I was 29. Did you really? I was going to say, knowing you from when I have known you, I would never have imagined that.
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And so, like, I grew up as, like, the fat girl. And so I just have, like, whatever issues come from that, right? I had to be smart and funny because nobody was going to love me otherwise, right?
00:02:42
Speaker
So um that's how I kind of got through. And anyway, so then... Like ah I was an epidemiologist by training, right and you know, now after COVID everyone can finally pronounce epidemiologists like that wasn't something anyone i even knew what that was. But, um, i so I, I went to grad school and then I was working kind of in inner city stuff doing like HIV AIDS. I was working for this big gay organization that works on AIDS, which is hilarious on and fun. And I'm glad I did it. And, um, anyway, so
00:03:14
Speaker
I lived on Capitol Hill and I worked on Capitol Hill and I had friends at my church on Capitol Hill. And at some point, if you're living on Capitol Hill, like what's gonna happen? You know, it's company town.
00:03:25
Speaker
So um anyway, at some point, the committee that oversees health needed someone to be the public health expert on in the United States Senate. And little Republican children don't grow up wanting to be public health experts. So there weren't any, they couldn't find any. So my, um, my friends were like, Hey, you do public health, don't you? And I said, I guess. And so that was the beginning of my government career. And I started working in the Senate. I worked for five different senators on like all ends of the big tent in the GOP. And, um, and a couple of times I tried to escape. I was always trying to escape government because kind of think government's stupid.
00:04:03
Speaker
And, um, So I kept trying to escape. And like, so I ran off to be a nun for a couple of years. I mean, feel like that's a whole sidetrack that we have to go down at some point. Yeah. I became a Catholic like in my early 30s. And I think I fell in love with the church and thought I had to marry it. So I think that's what was going on there. I just fell in love with like...
00:04:24
Speaker
you know yeah and um But even when I was in college and I was an evangelical, I was like, gosh, I'd love to be a nun. It's too bad you have to be Catholic. So like back then, i my future was kind of in sight. I always was a bit of a radical. So I think that's what drew drew drew me to it, I guess. That funny. Anyway, so I get sucked back in. I realized like what everyone who knew me realized, which is...
00:04:46
Speaker
Not cut out for the nunnery. obviously no and so My mom was so relieved. She was like, God, you figured this out. She was so tormented about it.
00:04:57
Speaker
Anyway, so um I got out and then I came like, just when you think you're out they like pull you back in. So I was back in the Senate. And um anyway, so my last job in the Senate,
00:05:09
Speaker
A friend of mine was the chief of staff there and he left to go do policy for president Trump or for then candidate Trump. It was 2016. And so the next time I saw him, like couple months later, he was disheveled and change smoking and sleep deprived. And I was like,
00:05:25
Speaker
do you need help? Jeez, I can. Okay, let let me help you. So um that's how it all began and with ah me and the Trump team, Trump world. And so I started volunteering and then eventually they they paid the, we were in Trump Tower and then we were in the transition team and then into the White House. So I ran um health policy and the values issues. So like life and gender, religious liberty.
00:05:49
Speaker
um for Domestic Policy Council in the White House. And then I got out right before COVID. Thank you, Jesus. and I didn't have the like government response taint on me and on my career. So um I got out right before. bill I mean, i was an epidemiologist. I believed in all this stuff. Like I was like deep in the system.
00:06:07
Speaker
I definitely was, had no health journey. Remember I i lost weight like the easy
Impact of Personal Experiences on Professional Work
00:06:12
Speaker
way. Yeah. So, um, I had not changed my life in any way. i was like all processed food, all vending machine diet, all diet Coke hydration.
00:06:20
Speaker
and um, and then my sister got sick. And so she, thank God I left the white house and her for her, basically her last six months. And, um,
00:06:31
Speaker
ah she died of colorectal cancer and it was so horrific that I basically said that sure as hell isn't going to happen to me. And that was the beginning of my health journey. And it was the middle of COVID. So all the like sacred cows in my mind were being like burned to the ground. i had, I had been part of keeping Bobby Kennedy out of the white house. And I was like, I wrote this email apologizing to him. Like, I'm so sorry. It was wrong. It's like, anyway, so. I didn't know at the time. I didn't know. yeah and he He was very gracious. But anyway, so I get out and um and I'm doing like trying to get my health back on track and I became a naturopath. And now i I build health plans for employers, like kind of innovative health plans where we fire the carrier and um fire the big middlemen and make it great again as much as it can be made in the traditional healthcare system, which is not that great, but Yeah. Like my husband says, maybe your tagline should be making healthcare slightly less shitty again. that
00:07:33
Speaker
that's great marketing for my company. yeah Yeah. I mean – you and I have talked about this a little bit before. It's like, where do you even begin? It's like, yeah, maybe just burn it all down. Start from fresh, you know, but you're an innovative outside of the box thinker. And so if anyone can do it, Katie, I know that it's you.
00:07:50
Speaker
Thank you. I'm working on it. Okay. So I love that we did a quick fly over. Now let's go back and like break it down a bit. Um, you just mentioned about your sister. Let's talk about that situation just a little bit. So you, you said you got out of the white house, uh, right before COVID hit and your sister got sick all at the same time. Walk us through how that all had been diagnosed about six months prior to that. So, but you know,
00:08:19
Speaker
39 year old, I guess she was 38 when she was first diagnosed. You don't mother to, you don't think they're going to die from this thing that they were just told they have. Like that didn't occur to us really. Right. At first, although it was very, when you find colorectal cancer because you're having symptoms, it's real late in the game. Yeah. um And so Really, I think it was ah a failure primary care there. She have a primary care doctor.
00:08:45
Speaker
um She also was like the all Diet Coke hydration diet. That's a little bit of a generational curse. So, um and... you know, she had two special needs boys. They had a, they have a genetic disorder and she was like the special needs mom, you know, like the first mama bear totally focused on them one hundred percent. Yeah. and Just like didn't have time to deal with her own, like what's that weird back pain or this weird inflammation or this weird fever and like none of it. But so she would kind of occasionally go off and find a specialist. Okay. Let me deal with this back pain or let me deal with this inflammation. Let me deal with this, you know, whatever it was. um
00:09:22
Speaker
And the the specialists are just in the silo where they're just treating what's in front of them. Had she had a good primary care, most primary care docs like don't even do this, but had she had a really good, competent primary care doc, they would have seen, these are like textbook presentation of colorectal cancer, but- She, um, her experience in the hospitals, cause she was in and out always. And it was like one intervention leads to complications that lead to more hospitalizations that lead to more hospitalizations. right And she, she got this like radical surgery. We're going for the cure. We're going get this out of here. And so we were like, great. Okay, cool. And of course that wasn't going happen. Like the tumors had like eaten her like lower abdomen basically. And, um,
00:10:08
Speaker
So the surgeon comes out and just like tells us, I couldn't do it. She has six months to live. And that was right at the time i had literally just left the White House. um So, you know, as as I was like,
00:10:24
Speaker
watching healthcare. care i mean, I i hated healthcare long before this. I hated all the system long before this, but so I came in with rage, but I i think that um nothing can prepare you for that. So like she had some really horrific moments where the the system failed her so utterly because of, for the sake of their own convenience, right they would let her suffer without proper pain management, even though she was literally hospitalized to manage pain. That's why she was there. um They would transfer her because it was convenient for them. And she shouldn't have even been there because she really didn't need this radical surgery and like all that.
00:11:03
Speaker
Anyway, and then, you you know, you have this sort of, it's ah it's a giant totalitarian bureaucracy that's set up for revenue and for the convenience of the people there. It's not set up for what's actually healing, what's actually healthy and helpful for people who are really sick and need to recover. yeah um I think what we would say for people who are sick, really sick, they really need fresh air. They really need wholesome food. They really need their loved ones around. They need their familiar environment around. They need their dog like on their bed you know cuddling with them. Yes. um They need sunshine.
00:11:41
Speaker
They need sunshine and the birds like singing outside and they, you know, they need to be rocking on a porch or have the windows all open. And this fluorescent lit, like totalitarian hellscape is just not compatible with healing for anyone. yeah And it, it not only is it incompatible, it's not like neutral, it's harming them. So the net harm of hospitals in most situations, I think,
00:12:08
Speaker
means you shouldn't, it's not worth being there in most situations. Right. There are plenty of emergency situations where you have to be in a hospital because they are mechanically putting you back together. Right. But once you're mechanically put back together, what is the best place for you to be recuperating, recovering, being, you know, taking care of It's not there. And and it's really risk-based. It's all kind of lawyer-based, right? Like, well, we we might get sued if something happens to you at home and we're not there. But like, they're not there anyway. You know, when you're when it's a weekend or overnight, they have like one doctor on the entire premises and he he's been out of medical school for five minutes. right So like, that this is an illusion of control. It's an illusion. And that really, you know, my loathing for hospitals really took root then. Yeah. I understand. Yeah.
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah. Although I had fought them in the Trump administration already. So I came in hot, but anyway, so that was her experience and it was horrible and it led to my own journey and and informed still a lot of how we help patients today.
00:13:09
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. um So yeah, unfortunately she died in that hellscape, right? I mean, and but she died at home. Thank God. um you know Hospice care in my parents' house, but um you know, she'd spent way too much time in hospital. She didn't need to. Right, right. And it was not the health care system getting her well and helping her heal in all the ways that you just described that would have been helpful. And so i I was just talking with another friend. You know, it's our pain that develops and births our passion and our passion projects because we've lived through something so terrible. that we never want anyone to ever experience that same thing. And so that's kind of what's happened with you. And just for our listeners there, you wrote an incredible article about the whole experience, details and everything
Strategies for Managing Medical Costs
00:13:53
Speaker
on your sub stack. Again, we're going to link that at the end because it's just such a wealth of knowledge. And we'll we'll touch by, well, since we're here on that, you did an article about, you know, not work the system, but how to deal with your medical costs and how to get them down. Give us a quick flyover on how you deal with that kind of stuff.
00:14:14
Speaker
That's super helpful. Yeah. so there there's a little bit of homework that you can do before your date of service and then on your date of service and after date of service. That's kind of how I break it up. Yep. When you need to, when you know you're getting care, the first thing you want to ask is, what are the billing codes that you're going to be billing me for?
00:14:33
Speaker
You get those billing codes from the place and you put those into chat, GPT, and you ask, what are the Medicare rates for these billing codes? And then you know, that's basically what cost is. That's what it cares about the cost of care. Right. And so, okay, now you know what cost is.
00:14:51
Speaker
It seems reasonable. They would add a little profit and that should be your price, right? Sure. um Except that it's not usually the price. It's usually three times that or six times that. So, so um Then you want to find the lowest cost site of care. So you want to um ask your doctor, are you owned by a hospital system? And is there a way, and frankly, go to a doctors that aren't owned by hospital systems. There are independent practices out there. Sometimes you don't know if they're independent. Ask AI. ask I want all the independent neurology practices in Northern Virginia. Like,
00:15:22
Speaker
start there that are not owned by hospitals because you will get raped and pillaged financially by a hospital. yeahp um And so start with your independent doctor. And then usually those guys, if they do surgeries or procedures, they do them in a hospital on Tuesdays, but at this physician owned surgery center on Wednesdays. So ask them, is there a lower cost side of care I can get this done at, especially with imaging? You definitely want that. Don't go to the hospital for imaging or labs or surgery, outpatient surgery ever.
00:15:49
Speaker
So yeah, Okay, so then you're going to ask for a good faith. Once you've chosen your site, ask for a good faith estimate from them. They were required by law to give you like, what are the what is the price going to be? Okay, great.
00:16:01
Speaker
Now you go on the date of service. um They're going to come at you with forms. And the forms, they're going to say, oh, these are just, you know, consent to treat forms, sign here. And if you're in the emergency room, it's like the guy that it's the gal wheeling around the computer into your like little bay that you're in, in the emergency room. And so she's going to asking me a bunch of questions and you're going sign on like ah an iPad thing.
00:16:24
Speaker
um But if you're in a doctor's office or a non-emergency situation, you'll probably have an iPad. Usually you don't have paper. Sometimes you do. um If you have paper, honestly, in in either case,
00:16:37
Speaker
just don't sign your name. And in the signature line, just write, I did not agree to this, or I do not consent to any of this, or I didn't read this, anything like that. Just put it in cursive, legible cursive, but like, and they'll be like, she signed, right? Yep.
00:16:54
Speaker
So, um and that gives you later if they bill you and it's more than that good faith estimate, or it's a ridiculous percentage above the Medicare rate, you have some ground to stand on. sure Okay.
00:17:06
Speaker
So then, um ah when the bills start coming, never pay the first bill. That is the the number one principle. Always call them, call the number on that bill and ask, I want an itemized bill.
00:17:19
Speaker
So now they're going to send you an itemized bill that has all the billing codes. Make sure the billing codes, they're charging you what they said they were going to. And if they didn't, then you want to say, ask chat, like what percent of Medicare is this? Is it 150% of Medicare? That means they added 50% profit.
00:17:36
Speaker
Is it 200% of Medicare? They added 100% profit. Is it 500% of Medicare? Very common. Okay. So what is that markup? I'm going to tell you what's reasonable. What's reasonable is 100% of Medicare, meaning no markup, to 50% markup.
00:17:52
Speaker
to fifty percent markup So is very good price. to is fair. Anything above 200, you should get lower.
00:18:02
Speaker
Now, the average is 250 for outpatient and 300 for inpatient. So let me be clear, like that's not what's being charged out there. But there are employers that are paying those prices because they demand it and they ask.
00:18:16
Speaker
So you can now negotiate. So when you get that bill, You can say, listen, this doesn't match the good faith estimate you gave me. It's way marked up over Medicare. That's not fair. That's not a good price. I'm going to pay you 150% of Medicare because I think that's fair. Zero out the rest of my balance.
00:18:32
Speaker
And you can send that letter to them. and And you can also include, I didn't agree to any price up front, my friends. I signed nothing. So um you can check check my form. I signed nothing. So that means if no price is agreed in advance under the Uniform Commercial Code, what that means is they can only charge you a price that a judge would find reasonable.
00:18:52
Speaker
And you can say that in your letter. I actually have a template letter on my on a website. Perfect. Yeah. So um anyway, so send that letter. They will never come back and say, oh we zared out your ballots. You're right. They'll never say that. Right. zero it out quietly. Right. And, um, and sometimes they don't, if they don't, and you're starting to get collections notices and you're starting to get scared. First of all, in Virginia, they cannot send you to credit bureau. So they cannot report you. Even if you're in collections, they cannot report medical debt to a credit bureau. And as long as you say this, so answer the collectors, answer all bills and say, I am disputing this charge. yeah As long as it's in their dispute, you cannot be sent to, um, a credit bureau. And
00:19:35
Speaker
Frankly, in Virginia, you can't anyway. But if you're not in Virginia, you want to be sure that you disputed it and that's on record. And then ignore the collectors from that point on. um and And essentially, if you want, you can pay 300 bucks and get a lawyer to put your letter on his letterhead and send it via process, like have it served to the hospital. And that almost always works. Right.
00:19:58
Speaker
Just wait, be patient. They will zero out your balance. Yeah. And at that point too, you're saying, you know, spend $300 on a lawyer letterhead essentially to send this letter off. Oftentimes that $300 is still less than whatever the bill is. Way less. Yeah. you know Your bill is going to be like in the thousands. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I've never seen like an emergency room visit for less than 3000 bucks. I know, which is just insane. But you did hit on something earlier when you're talking about when when it comes to hospitalization and hospital care in the United States, we are ah really great at trauma and you know like acute care, that kind of things, like the emergencies, exactly what you just said.
Critique of U.S. Hospital Care
00:20:33
Speaker
But everything else, nope, not good. Avoid hospital at all costs, in my personal opinion. Yeah, I'm about to write on ah my article coming out this this week is going to trigger a lot of people, but it's about the industrial birth process. so Can't wait. That's a great segue, Katie. It's like you're reading my mind. You know where we're headed. But I do want to make the cape a caveat here because I have this conversation with um medical providers, healthcare providers often. And it's like, so you're saying that I am this terrible person and and I'm not caring for people. And that is not it. There certainly are some just cogs in the wheels. that are just, you know, robotically saying and doing what they have to do because that's how they've been trained. But so often i think that they're just a part of a greater system that they don't even realize. You know, it's that whole idea of being plugged into a matrix. Like they genuinely think that what they're doing is helpful and what they're prescribing, you know, um medication wise, that kind of thing is helping the situation. And they don't know about the billing. They're just they're doing their job. they're They're running an IV. They're, you know, doing what they were trained to do and have no idea. that the higher ups are just about making money. You know, the hospital system is a for profit situation. It's not like they're doing it out of the kind of their hearts. But so let's ah transition into infertility and just talking about that. So you have your own infertility journey. Do you to tell us just a little bit about that?
00:22:01
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So I had um like debilitating period cramps my whole life from the very first period I ever had. And, um, so, you know, what's going happen by the time I'm like, I don't know, 18 or so I was on birth control and those suppressed the symptoms. I was able to function with, you know, slightly less overdose of Advil every four hours than what I had been taking. Um, but still it was an overdose of Advil every four hours and that would last for you know, four days-ish. And every, you know, you think about like, that's more than 10% of every month I'm like ODing on this toxic substance. yeah So um anyway, so then I like am on birth control for decades. I am sort of a late bloomer when it come. Remember I was overweight. And so I wasn't really dating a ton um in my twenties. And then I met Mr. Right.
00:22:53
Speaker
when I was 38. And so we got married. And of course I had been off birth control for a while at that point. And, you know, was starting to chart my cycle and like really ready to have babies, super excited. Couldn't wait. My sister had already had hers and I was so jealous. And, um, so ah And when it didn't happen right away, you know, I started going to like the most enlightened ah natural procreative Catholic, like really innovative fertility doctors that are kind of known as the best out there and in restorative reproductive medicine. And
00:23:29
Speaker
This doctor I had recommended to others, but she had cured my sister's secondary infertility. And, um, and I thought, you know, it didn't even occur to me that this was a problem that wouldn't be solved. Right. Um, but we did this like horrific, you know, 10 day vaginal probing ultrasound thing, um, to watch my ovaries through one cycle or watch one ovary through a cycle And because that ovary didn't actually release an egg that cycle, it sort of like formed the things, the follicles, and then they kind of came down in on themselves without releasing an egg.
00:24:01
Speaker
On the basis of that, I was told I was infertile and it was incurable. And I was given some disease that I don't remember the name of, but i don't really even believe it was real. And, um, at no point was I told, Hey, um, about that diet Coke hydration strategy and, um, the vending machine diet and the four hours of night of sleep and the fight constant fight or flight in your job. And, you know, about that, uh, could it be that your fertility has turned off because you're biologically wired to not reproduce while a bear is chasing you correct So, um, no, that conversation wasn't had. And so, um, and you know, what's so sad about that missed opportunity is like when a woman is trying to get pregnant, she will do anything, anything. So like all those years of me not being willing to change a thing about my diet or my life or anything, I would have done anything. That was the moment to get me with the behavior change. Maybe I didn't have to wait till my sister died. Right. Um, so that was the moment to get me and it was a missed opportunity, but
00:25:05
Speaker
I didn't know better. I was dumb. And so um I just accepted it. We adopted couple older kids, which are awesome. We have grandkids now. It's like the greatest ever, but the grandkids are as great as everyone says. And, um but it was, a you know, a horrible tragedy in our, in our lives. And so I still have like grief from it. I still,
00:25:26
Speaker
regret, ah many regrets. Um, you know, and of course the world out there is saying, well, you shouldn't have waited so long. You shouldn't prioritize your career. Like I was prioritizing nothing. I would have run away with Mr. Right. If I had found him at 21 or 18, you know, like yeah I was looking hard. Um, but you know, I do have standards and, you know,
00:25:44
Speaker
yeah Um, so, uh, it took a while to, to find those, find someone that met those standards. Um, anyway, so yeah, I was doing my best. And, um, anyway, so that was the journey. And ah now that I work with, I sometimes work with women that are struggling to get pregnant. And, you know, the first thing we do is change the diet, change the sleep and especially sleep first, actually, that's even more powerful than Um, But they're both
Women's Health and Lifestyle
00:26:10
Speaker
equally important. And hormonal chaos is often often corrected by having early morning sun on your eyeballs. and It resets the sex hormones and the non-sex hormones throughout the day so that they're in better balance. And that will help you get to sleep when you aren't even sleepy at you know midnight. um
00:26:31
Speaker
And it'll help you have good restorative detoxating detoxifying sleep. But I think a lot of it is... we are living lives and I'm really trying to work on this my own life, but we are living lives that are not fit for women, right? Like compatible, right? No, like we're meant to, you know, have our children around us. We're meant to like have sisters and mothers and grandmas and aunties around us. We're meant to um like really be rising with the sun and going to sleep with our children and going to sleep. As soon as the sun goes down, we're meant to not have any blue light, only fire and sun. Like those are the light. and You know, this is our bodies were designed for cave women. yeah um And they haven't like evolved past, you know, that it's just the past hundred years, all these innovations in human history that are assaulting us with the electromagnetic radiation and the blue lights and the, um the stress of our careers and our work. And even if we're stay at home moms, the running around and the sports and the PTA and the like, you know, the fighting the parents resistance in Loudoun County and like, whoa, All the things we have to do as moms, even if we're not working outside the home, our work inside the home is insane. And then, you know, we have grocery stores that are poisoning us. And, you know, so even if we're trying to like make homemade food, I mean, my mom was a stay-at-home mom. She made dinner every night and I was still totally poisoned by food. yeah So um my my glyphosate test right now, my result right now, my glyphosate result is so, which is Roundup, right?
Food, Environment, and Health Implications
00:27:57
Speaker
That's what yeah i put it's put on everything.
00:28:00
Speaker
is so off the chart it can't even be measured like it's literally off out of range so high and i like you i've been eating organic for the past five years at least so i mean it's coming from yes it's coming from so i have this conversation on the regular because that's what one of the things i identified for myself is like not a gluten intolerance but it was more of a gluten sensitivity specifically to non-organic flour because it's the glyphosate because you know quick little thing glyphosate equals roundup roundup goes on to the plant the bug eats the plant and their stomach explodes what you think is happening to us right I wonder I'm bloaty. And they're spraying it. It's a desiccant. It dries out the crop, right? So they're not just spraying it like when the bugs are getting to things, like before that. No, they're spraying it as soon as it's harvested.
00:28:51
Speaker
Then they spray it on all the harvested wheat to dry it out because they're usually, they're trying to deal with the rain cycle and beat the weather. And they're trying, it's usually too wet. And so they spray it right before they harvest because they can't cut it because it's wet.
00:29:04
Speaker
So, and it dries it out. So, It's literally cut, milled, and put in your mouth. And it's like drowned, drowned in Roundup. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. and And it's in everything now. It's in everything. It's like, how do you even...
00:29:20
Speaker
How do you mean even in organic food? They just did some tests, right? Organic food that it's, it's lower usually, but like not eliminated in all foods. Correct. Well, and that's the whole thing too, is like, well, okay, you've got farmer Joe over here who's spraying the glyphosate and it's terrible and whatnot. Next door, you got farmer Sam and he's like, no, I'm doing it all right. But you got farmer Joe's property is a little bit higher. So it's running off into the organic stuff. so So, I mean, and then that's not even to get into the conversation of the atmosphere and rain going on. That's right. That's right.
00:29:51
Speaker
ah Again, another story for another another episode. Goodness gracious, girl. We've got so much to cover. yeah Okay. Well, I want to talk about going along with the infertility and talking about just women and all the stress that we carry and all of that.
Childbirth: Trusting Natural Processes
00:30:06
Speaker
Let's talk about we actually have gotten pregnant. We're carrying a child and we are ready to give birth.
00:30:12
Speaker
And most of the culture runs to the hospital to give birth and they plan for an epidural and they plan for a potential C-section and they plan for all these things because they've been coached to think that way. But let's just back back out of that. And you do the fly in and tell us really, I mean, the article that you wrote a while ago about that, I was just like, yes yes, yes, yes, yes. But like as women, when we are ready to go give birth in the wild, what happens? We go and hide. in a quiet, yeah dark place. So take it away.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, nobody's really ever seen this because it's been so fully sanitized out of our culture and our lives, but very few people have ever even heard of or seen a human mammal giving physiological birth. um But if you look at non-human mammals, what they do is they escape into a very solitary, quiet, dark place where they feel the safest. And the reason for that, the reason their instincts lead them to do that is that um oxytocin, which is the hormone that controls contractions and timing. And of course, it's the bonding hormone after birth that you have that like absolute high, you'll never feel it ever again. um
00:31:23
Speaker
That hormone is turned off by cortisol. the stress hormone. So if you are, and what, what spikes cortisol, fluorescent lighting, some stranger in your field, like anything, anything, it's not the cave is basically going to spike your cortisol. And so even if you have a like perfect birth,
00:31:46
Speaker
in fluorescent lit surrounded by strangers in, you know, masks and scrubs, even that, and there's nothing else bad happens. Even that is messing with the natural physiology of birth. And the the reason why that matters is because the natural physiology of birth is exquisitely tuned to keep you and baby safe. And so to the extent that you don't have oxytocin,
00:32:09
Speaker
um well, you know you're going to have bleeding after, right? So what what turns what makes your uterus close up postpartum to actually stop the bleeding? it's It's the hormones, right? And so if you don't have that oxytocin causing your uterus to contract, one of the things women complain about is like,
00:32:28
Speaker
ah You know, like after my placenta comes out, like I'm still every time baby nurses, like I'm the baby's on me or I'm smelling baby and like I get these awful contractions. Yes, your ears is closing up so that you stop bleeding. And so when we when we interfere with this system, bad things can happen. So let me give you an example.
00:32:50
Speaker
When we, you know, there's all these protocols in hospitals that cannot be violated because lawyers. And so, um and also convenience and revenue. So um if you go in right after your waters are broken,
00:33:02
Speaker
You're going to get told, okay, you have 12 hours before infection risk. Like you can't have no waters in there because you're going infected. No, what causes the infection is you sticking your gloved hand into my hoo-ha every 30 minutes to measure if I'm ready yet. Because right the vagina is, and the uterus is like, the vagina is a wonderful seal against infection, right? Otherwise we'd all have infections in our uterus all the time. right Isn't it funny? It's like God knew what he was doing when he designed all of it. Almost. Almost. Right. so um So they're going to put you on a clock the minute you walk in the door. So I would always coach women, if you're going to birth in a hospital, don't go until like it's on. Right. Like and it's on. um And it is not on.
00:33:47
Speaker
When you think it is. yeah yeah Yeah. Right. It's really only on when you think you're going to die and you can't do it. yeah Right. So when it's actually like, I can't do this. Someone save me.
00:33:59
Speaker
That is, you know, usually when you're in transition and that's when it's really on. But like definitely wait as long as you possibly can because their clock will start. And if that clock and what they're going to say, while you're just kind of trying to labor naturally, what they're going to say is um,
00:34:14
Speaker
this isn't really moving along and yeah we'd we'd like to get things moving along. Yes. And so, um, And they'll especially do this when they see like the weekend coming or like getting late in the day. yeah so um So then they're going to come at you with Pitocin, which is synthetic oxytocin, not the same thing.
00:34:35
Speaker
And and this even if it were the same thing, it's not dosed the way your body doses and regulates oxytocin, which is very rhythmically and um with feedback from baby and mom as to what's happening, what position you're in, like whether you're Cervix is ready. Like all the things are talking to your autonomic nervous system saying like, we need more potocin ah more oxytocin, less oxytocin.
00:34:59
Speaker
And remember, oxytocin, contractions. so um So when they give you that pitocin, Oh, now it's on. It is like full on contractions, like unnatural, ungodly, like too fast for baby to even like adjust to and get right. Because remember, it's like baby's head is getting like, their feet are getting pushed by the top of your uterus and they're like smushed and they're trying to breathe. And I mean, they're trying to oxygen oxygenate themselves and their, their cord is like, God knows where.
00:35:27
Speaker
And so, um, So then the woman, of course, is like, oh my God, I can't take this. I can't take it. And so of course you can't. It's not, you're not meant, you're not built to take that. And so. Or baby looks like they're not responding very well. They're, they're stressed out. We're stressed. Yeah. Yeah. really rested aren't we yeah We're all stressed. So um that's what happens. So fetal heart rate can go up because of course they strap that monitor on you the minute you walk in the door. and um and then.
00:35:55
Speaker
And so, of course, you can't move. You can't move like a normal like mammal would like move to – instinctively move to position the baby properly, right? And um and you can't do that because you've got IVs and you've that fetal monitor. You can't move.
00:36:07
Speaker
So – Then they come in and they're like, honey, we really, you know, you we could make you more comfortable. do you want us to do that? And so you're like, hell yes, I want you to do that. And so that's when the epidural comes in of course. And so um so now an epidural basically turns this all off, right? Shuts it all down. The feedback loop.
00:36:30
Speaker
that would help you move and position your body. That's off. Labor slows down. It stops. Your baby is like still getting the contractions, still getting the contractions, but your body and muscles aren't really helping at all. no And so, um, so now fetal distress again, or fetal heart rate can slow down because of course these drugs get through to the baby too. And so, um, so then they're like fetal distress or, um, you know, failure to progress C-section it is right. Um, So that's how all of this. And then when you have a C-section, of course, now baby's microbiome doesn't get seeded through your vagina, which is where all that critical to future health microbiome gets planted in your baby. Cause inside your uterus, there's no microbiome. It's, it's through the birth canal.
00:37:15
Speaker
Right. It's like a sterile environment in the uterus. Right. And then it's a, when they pass through, they're getting, I mean, it's like, yeah, anyway. Yeah, they get it all from like the vagina, from grandma kissing and like everybody passing them around. Like that is so critical. But if everyone's in the freaking NICU and in the OR, like that's not happening. You are getting a microbiome. You're getting the bugs that live in the hospital.
00:37:37
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So then there are tons of them and they're deadly. And so like, that's a nightmare. So then they have to give antibiotics to everybody. So now even if you had a few microbiomes that were good, like that's all gone. all kill no Yeah. So, and then of course, what happens to close mom's uterus so that she's not hemorrhaging to death? Baby needs to be right here, here right now here and needs to stay there for the next, you know, 40 days. Honestly, I was going to say,
00:38:05
Speaker
At least for two days. yeah um And certainly for the next two hours at least. So um this is all, and you know, by the way, if you don't have those contractions, if you don't have all those hormones, it's those hormones that make the placenta come out, that make the placenta detached. So that's another reason why you might bleed if you're not, if all those hormones aren't working. So all the reasons they tell you it's dangerous to birth at home, you might have hemorrhage, you might need a C-section, or you know you might have all these complications.
00:38:33
Speaker
No, these are complications you manufacture in hospital. You have no idea the complication rate when someone's birthing physiologically. It's much lower. Absolutely. And they're they're they're the cause of them. And also each intervention is like... Causing, cha-ching, cha-ching. mean, it's... Yeah. Anyway, it's like they it's like and they... And you cannot expect a woman who's literally like has never known the kind of love that she is now feeling for this child. Like she would lay her body down. So when you say to that woman, God godt forbid, you say to this woman, you play the dead baby card, right? Like, well, you could wait a little longer, but you might have a dead baby, right? You might. It's just for safety, honey. It's just for safety. Of course you're going to gaslight these women into into doing whatever you say because they're terrified. And by the way, the entire prenatal care system care system yeah is designed to to train you in submission and fear-mongering. It's where it starts, right? Yes.
00:39:31
Speaker
We probably should have started there. So Go back there. start to Talk about that a little bit. you know yeah When you find out you're pregnant and you're like, oh, good. Now I guess I need to start going to the doctor every I can the doctor to make sure baby's okay, right? Absolutely. Yeah.
00:39:46
Speaker
why? Why do you have to make sure baby's okay? And also, why is your inner knowing so much stupider than some machine reading that is wrong half the time or like 10% of the time it's like off by a pound or whatever? So, I mean, why why do you start that process? And I think it's really important for us to think about birth belongs to women.
00:40:09
Speaker
Birth belongs to women. There's a reason for that. God designed it that way. He gave us instincts that like, are are dismissed as like not real knowledge. And we've been like,
00:40:21
Speaker
Grown up, we're swimming in this materialist heresy that the only kind of actual knowledge is the kind we get from material science and machines and drugs and chemicals and whatever, randomized controlled trials.
00:40:35
Speaker
But actually that's not true, right? We have the Holy Spirit. We are made in the image of God. The the logos created all of mankind and the logos is the mind of Christ. We are created in the image of the logos that creates. So our logos also creates. And our logos is pretty smart. And so um women, like the only, like for all of human history until a hundred years ago, the only like safety plan that God had was mom's instinct and and mom's inner knowing. And it works for every other mammal that doesn't have like the rational mind. They only have instinct. And it works for us too. And so when we start, but the medical system is designed to beat that out of you, to scare you that you're stupid or that you don't know better or you're selfish or you're reckless if you're thinking this way. In fact, um it's the opposite. you're not You're nothing but responsible when you are your own prenatal care provider. Yes. And so like nobody cares about that baby more than you. Nobody, nobody, nobody, right? Right.
00:41:35
Speaker
So um I really think we have to be careful as to, Why are we getting these measurements? What are we going to do with these test results? What what choices will be available to us at that time? and um and And recognizing that like, what happens when you do an ultrasound?
00:41:54
Speaker
Ultrasound waves like kill whales. they like So, ah you know, they're not neutral. Harmless, yeah. So what happens when... So could it be that when ah a baby is subjected to ultrasound waves that like things change in there, the measurements are off because they're not real, like the baby's moving or it's like trying to get away or whatever, like it can't really get away from sound waves. And so, um but these are like not harm free. And in fact, the dose response, the more ultrasounds a woman gets, the more health outcomes are, are you know,
00:42:29
Speaker
negatively Not as great for those outcomes. And so it's really important that when you have one al ultrasound that has some abnormal results, what's going to happen? what's What are they going to do? At best, they're going to, well, let's do some more ultrasounds. Right.
00:42:43
Speaker
Right? Yep. So of course, you know, it's, it's kind of hard to study this because it looks like you're having worse outcomes with more ultrasounds, but really people who have some risk factor get more ultrasound. So it's, it's hard to tease out like which came first. Right. But, um, I would say that like, it's not just the ultrasounds. It's also the, like, I'm subjecting to you. You tell me if we're okay. yeah And that just conditions you for when you're in labor yeah and they're telling you it's not okay. Or they're telling you, you are okay. And you know, you're not. Yeah. Yeah. because those there are true medical emergencies in birth. Absolutely. kind of um
00:43:18
Speaker
There are true medical emergencies, but they are very rare, and they especially in a physiological birth. And they have clear signs. And the signs are perceived first by mom.
00:43:31
Speaker
So she knows ah that pain is really different. That's not contraction pain. That's really, really different. Something's off. Something's wrong. And of course, in these systems, the patting on the head, condescension, the dismissing of women, like the infantilization as if we are these hysterical females that like have to be, you know, managed. Like that culture makes me want to punch someone in the face and I'm not even giving birth and I want punch someone in the face. So um I think it's really important for us to think about like, how did God expect for women to give birth? Is it with all these interventions and what is the potential harm of these interventions? Um, yeah yeah, my article will be going into a lot of this in more detail, but it's going to trigger people. It's not, I mean, I think we're always the first ones to blame ourselves if anything goes wrong. Yeah. And so I really want to make sure that people do not think that if something went wrong in their birth, it was their fault. Right. Um, no, we are gaslit from infancy, right? Our moms are training us in this system. They, if we want to birth at home, it's going to be your mom. That's going object first. Right. yeah Oh yeah. Um, so your husband, right. Yeah. Often your husband. I talk about the fathers and my peers. It's often the husbands and that's out of fear. Yes. They just like, you're the only thing their lives. You are everything. And God forbid, if they could, can't save you and they didn't do everything they could. Right. And so,
00:44:52
Speaker
they know that this isn't their lane. They know it. And so they're just trying to make you safe in a lane that isn't theirs. And so they, they don't understand. And when they act out of fear and ah not understanding their advice is not necessarily the best. And so ladies, I say to you like all my non-feminists, I know i'm not a feminist either. Like,
00:45:15
Speaker
I'm saying to you, birth is your lane. It is your decision. Every decision is yours. Do not suppress your instinct in your inner knowing that God gave you. Yeah, that's right. God given. Amen. I love that. I could talk about this specific subject for hours and hours and we'll definitely end up getting you to come back because I'm sure I'm going to get questions and things like that. But you have so many resources. Again, we're going to link those in the show notes. But I want to transition into what you just wrote about recently, with raising boys and the school system with the little time that we have left. Again, we're not even going to be able to cover it, even though the podcast is called Digging In. I guess we're just kind of like scratching in right now and then we'll have to go even deeper
Raising Boys in Modern Society
00:45:56
Speaker
at another time. But you're doing such an amazing job at like giving some really hard hitting like things to think about for people that are like, wait a second. Yeah, that's that. Yeah. So talk to me about raising boys and putting them in school.
00:46:10
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, i i'm ah I was like this career woman when we adopted children and they were older. so i thought about homeschooling at first and I was like, they're older, like they're gonna like,
00:46:22
Speaker
what you know, like they already, they're used to school and I already have this job and like, I can't undo everything that's already been done to them anyway. And so I'm like, well, you know, um, so we, I, we picked these like amazing schools. I picked the most boy friendly boys school for my son that I could possibly find. It's like, you know, you go to that school and boys are hanging off trees and like jumping off the roof and stuff. Like it is awesome in that way. well And, um, but still,
00:46:51
Speaker
my son thought he was in prison and he really never forgave me for making him go to school at all. Um, right right now. And yeah. And he, um, he like his little soul like died in school. And, um, and I think it's just that I, the, the impetus for the article I wrote is we were away at the beach and my son is now in his twenties and I have a grandson who's five. And, um,
00:47:18
Speaker
And I was watching the two of them at the beach and how different they were from my daughter and my granddaughter. Right. um And, you know, watching my son who has really been struggling and he's been experiencing a bunch of challenges and I've been watching him like just retreat in his soul, like just, you know, struggling. And, you know,
00:47:41
Speaker
It took a few days, but he came alive at the beach. And I saw the real him that had been missing for a few years. And then I saw him interacting with my grandson and my grandson interacting with him and my husband and like watching them together.
00:47:58
Speaker
and i and I wasn't like working or cooking or like, i you know, usually I'm like just kind of, but like in this case, I was just on my balcony watching them on the beach in front of me. And i could just see things about boys. And, you know, they're made for danger. They're made to run wild and they're made for nature.
00:48:19
Speaker
And so like, this wasn't really a screed about like, keep them out of school. It was more like, although keep them out of school, but it was more like,
00:48:31
Speaker
Nature is the only thing that can save them in terms of their physiioological physiology and um and they're made for it. So again, like we were talking about women, men are...
00:48:44
Speaker
made for nature too. And, um, you know, they're, they're meant to run wild. They're meant and to have the ground under their feet, under their bare feet. They're meant to have sunshine. And we send our boys out before the sun is up.
00:48:59
Speaker
And often they're at sports and they don't even come home until the sun is down. And that is unbiological and it is toxic. So it's not only toxic psychologically, it's toxic physiologically and biochemically. um And then you add in the screens and then you add in the marijuana that is literally everywhere. um And it's not just, you know, like the old plant that's, you know, 10% THC.
00:49:26
Speaker
These are vaping oils that are 85% THC. They are synthetic. I had like, you know, teenagers say to me, Oh, it's like, it's a plant. It's natural. Like, no, it is synthetic chemicals manufactured in China and it is poison and it is addictive as all get out. You have all these like entire generation that cannot get off this. They need it to sleep. They need it to function. they have They can't experience their uncomfortable feelings, which is the definition of manhood is experiencing challenge and hard stuff and conquering it. And that's the only thing that's going to give them purpose and get them out of bed is to know that they can conquer stuff. And marijuana kills that, right? And you combine it with all the school and the prison and the submission and the conformity and the, you know.
00:50:10
Speaker
And I just think that our modern world is destroying so many of our boys. Yes. So I just like, I didn't have any solutions. I really like, I'm like, unlike a the only solution I have is like, make sure you take your boys to nature. You as the mom, you are in control of the family schedule. And so like, take three weeks this year, take four weeks, you know, like, and go live in nature and make sure that they're in it.
00:50:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be like some huge grandiose budget of like, take everybody out to Utah and yeah just get outside, put down the screens. And this goes for us too. And I'm ah very guilty of this because I do love taking pictures. But if my phone is near me, I'll be like, oh, snap, picture, picture, video. And then I'm like, oh, wait, I should probably just clear out some email while I'm in here. Oh, he's not doing something. I'll just, you know, whatever. i'm ah And then I'm what has happened, you know, it devolves so right quickly. So yes. And also I think it's important that when we're in nature with our boys, that we like get away from them, like let them run off, like it, like take them to nature and then step back.
00:51:16
Speaker
Which can be really scary. Yes. Yes. Yes. Let them like do crazy stuff in the ocean that you should, is not safe. yeah And, um, you know, like, or go off in the woods and like, you don't see them for 10 hours, like, or they didn't come back and they just like slept somewhere by a river. Like, okay. Yeah. Katie. It's hard. It's hard. And what let the men take the boys, right? Like, okay, put them in like in dad's chair, right? Like whatever, for good or ill. Right, right. so um Let me hear all the stories after you've safely returned. Exactly. You don't need to know, right? Only here making a home and delicious food for when you arrive. Exactly. So funny. This has been amazing, Katie. I'm so thankful for you. I'm so thankful for the work that you're doing. I'm thankful that the Lord had our paths crossed and just all the things that we've shared today. I know that it's going be a huge blessing to people. So if they want to get in touch with you, connect with you, follow you on social media, all that good stuff, where can they find you? you
00:52:10
Speaker
Yep. I'm at katytalento.com. That's Katie with a Y, like Katie Perry. katytalento.com is my sub stack and I write there every week and love to hear from people there.
00:52:20
Speaker
awesome. And then we'll link up your Instagram and all your socials and that kind of stuff. And, um, yeah, it's awesome. And obviously you'll be coming back for more. So we will have you on again. Thanks so much for coming, Katie, and we'll see you next time.