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Guest: Author and Editor Bert Edens
18 Plays28 days ago
Bert is an author and editor who has always been one to read anything put in front of him, a passion he still enjoys, reading in all genres.
He has recently been published in multiple anthologies of flash fiction as well as in a magazine dedicated to supporting children with special needs. He also has multiple non-fiction and fiction pieces accepted for future publication. When not writing, he is active as a martial arts instructor, software developer, an amateur chef, and a strong proponent for disability rights and empowerment of women.
We talk bullying and ableism, Alice Cooper and charity anthologies, Evil Dead, audiobooks, and Edens' work. And of course there's a Madlib.
https://linktr.ee/bertedens
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Introduction
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast, where we talk with creatives about neurodivergence, trauma, addiction, and all the other things that impact and inform our art. Our goal is to show everyone that no matter what you're going through, you are not alone and you can make art about it.
00:00:24
Speaker
Music
00:00:34
Speaker
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast.
Guest Introduction: Burt Edens
00:00:36
Speaker
My name is Wednesdayly Friday, and we are sponsored by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine, which you can and should find on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I.
00:00:48
Speaker
With us this week, we have author Burt Edens, and I'm pretty excited about this. Now, if you don't know, Burt is an author and an editor, And he currently lives in Arkansas with his wife and one of his two sons. He's got an array of dogs, some of whom believe they are royalty.
00:01:06
Speaker
He's had lots of short pieces published, um nonfiction, horror, sci-fi, and erotica. Nice. And, you know, when he's not writing, he's actually a martial arts instructor. He's a software developer and a chef. And he's also a proponent of disability rights and the empowerment of women, which, you know, as a woman,
00:01:28
Speaker
i'm I'm into that. So welcome, Bert. Thanks for being here. Hello. Well, thanks for having me on. It is my pleasure.
First Horror Movie Memories
00:01:36
Speaker
We always like to start by asking guests to talk about the first horror movie they remember seeing. So let's hear it.
00:01:44
Speaker
um That's a good question. um ah Growing up, I didn't watch a whole lot of horror because primarily because my mom and stepdad didn't really watch that much. So as a kid, you know, I didn't get the opportunity to watch much.
00:01:59
Speaker
I'm already shocked. I'm shocked. Yeah. I figured you for a young junkie. Oh, now, books-wise, that's a different story. But movies-wise, ah no, i really didn't. But, you know i remember once I was yeah know out of high school and had my own money, I remember reading an interview with Alice Cooper. And he talked about one of the movies that he really, really enjoyed was Evil Dead.
00:02:20
Speaker
And so I went and rented that. And that's the first one I actually remember saying, I need to watch this movie and went and watched it. And it's it's still a favorite. You know, it's called classic. It's so good.
00:02:33
Speaker
Okay, I'm sorry, long pause. I'm kind of known for not liking Evil Dead because of a lot of complicated reasons. Well, you know, i'm I'm from Michigan, and the Rameys are, you know, horror royalty here, and I'm not going to speak a word against the Rameys, okay? I absolutely have no issue with the Rameys.
00:02:54
Speaker
I think it is worth noting... that back in the day, a huge part of being able to make movies was having the money to make movies. And it really, it it reminds me so much that ah so much of what we see in the media is is luck and how much the internet has changed that because we see stuff on YouTube now that is by absolute amateurs with $15 an iPhone And they're making things that are at least as, as innovative and, and exciting as, as evil dad was back in the day. Right. Plus, you know, that's the thing that is, you know, I don't, don't have any qualms with any of that because it's all subjective. I mean, the art is subjective. So otherwise I'd have 5.0 ratings on everything I wrote, you know?
00:03:42
Speaker
but Well, and I mean the, the, the tree. Yeah. that that's even, even back then that was, ah that was a little much.
00:03:52
Speaker
Um, but, but that's, you know, it's actually really common. That's ah an answer I've heard a few times from people that their first horror movie was evil dead and they loved it and they still love it. So I'm, I'm clearly in the minority with this viewpoint.
00:04:05
Speaker
Right. And I may have seen some of the, you know, universal horror or something like that growing up and just not remember it. But, uh, you know, growing up as a kid watching movies more because it's what was allowed, I typically watch more fantasy and sci-fi stuff, you know, um Star Trek, whatever else was on at the time. Star Wars movies came out when I was about 10, started to, and things like that. But books books are a different story, but movies-wise, it took me to adulthood to be able to get what I want and discover all the wonderful Italian and, you know, later Korean horror and all the good stuff that's out there besides what's mainstream Hollywood, you know.
00:04:42
Speaker
yo You certainly don't want to
Art Consumption and Personal Taste
00:04:44
Speaker
be exposing children to curing horror. My God. Like, why don't you want to eat your dumplings? No reason. no So you and I are both movie fans. We're also both avid readers.
00:04:59
Speaker
What do you say to those people that say that movies are lowbrow compared to books, which are more intellectual? Did do you buy into that at all? Nope, not at all. i'm I'm definitely one of those, you know, don't yuck someone else's yum.
00:05:13
Speaker
ah Everybody has their own likes, their own dislikes. And, you you see some of that gatekeeping sometimes with books as far as, you know, is is listening to an audio book really, quote unquote, air quotes,
00:05:26
Speaker
um reading a book and oh gosh you know of course it is because it's it's a it's you're being picky about what people are doing at the very least it's ableist you know absolutely because you have to be literate to read a book you do not have to be literate to listen to one no and and like i said some people you know you know if you're visually impaired what do you do you listen to audiobooks and i kind of look at movies the same way you know it's whatever you like and whatever you want to do to scratch that itch, whether it be a book, a movie, audio book, or, you know, going to a play and listen to doing that. It's, it's whatever works.
00:06:01
Speaker
Well, you would never say to someone, oh, you watched a movie with subtitles on it. I guess you didn't really watch it, did you? like You know, ah it doesn't apply to anything else.
00:06:12
Speaker
um So, okay. So here's my question. If you could make everyone on earth, presuming it was available in their native language, obviously, if you could make everyone sit down and watch one movie, what movie would it be?
00:06:27
Speaker
Does it need to be horror? No, no, any movie. There's a Korean animated film called Oseam, O-S-E-A-M. And it's about a little boy and a little girl um who are orphans and they wander off and indian ended up um at a yeah a monastery, a Buddhist monastery.
00:06:50
Speaker
And there's some complications there. There's some bullying by um neighborhood kids and things like that because the sister is blind and little boy defends her. He gets in fights and it's really heartwarming. And at some points it'll actually just absolutely shatter your heart.
00:07:09
Speaker
But, uh, it's, uh, it's not as common here in the U S but I just, every time I watch that, I will ball like a little baby. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's very powerful, very emotional, but also very heartwarming in many ways too. So,
00:07:22
Speaker
kind of depends on where you're at, but that's, that's one from left field for you. Is it, is it made for kids? No. Or is it a, like a family film? No, I think, I think it's a family film. I think, in fact, it's probably one of those that, you know, kids I think would look at and pick up the childhood aspects of it, but there's a lot more deeper meaning as far as, you know, them protecting each other, taking care of each other, the Buddhist monks taking them in and, you know, their spiritual aspects of it too. So it's a little bit for everybody.
00:07:52
Speaker
Oh, wow. It sounds like one of those things that you watch it as a kid and you like it, but then when you watch it when you're older, you get like all different things out of it. One of those.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That would be me with Pet Sematary. Reading it as a teen and then reading it after having an adult with two kids totally hits you differently. And I'm sure that would be one of those same way, but I discovered it as an adult. Wow.
00:08:18
Speaker
Wow. You know, the audio book, speaking of, is is great. Michael C. Hall does Pet Sematary. really? it's Oh, it's great. Audible has it. Shout out. Sorry, Bezos. I hate Bezos, but frick, I love me some Audible.
00:08:31
Speaker
um yeah Yeah, we can complain about him and still understand it's way a lot of us...
Impact of Trauma and Teaching Martial Arts
00:08:36
Speaker
but put food on the table too you know yeah exactly and exactly um so so getting into the thick of things here i know that ah you and i share that we live with trauma that began when we were kids yeah um what would you like to tell us about that um probably not going to get into too many specifics but you know one of the things i've seen a lot with um
00:09:04
Speaker
Being an instructor, a martial arts instructor, know I've seen a lot of that too, where you get somebody who is a, um they have an abusive parent or they have an alcoholic parent or whatever the case may be.
00:09:18
Speaker
um And you see,
00:09:25
Speaker
it's it's interesting. You see someone where it's night and day and you see that sometimes them getting to class for the parents, it's a chance for them to get away from the kids. Um, and for the instructor, you see them there and you see that that's the light of their day, you know, and it's, it's hard not to look at some kids and realize what they have go through, what they go through and what they might find that might be an anchor for them, in, um,
00:09:55
Speaker
in Whatever. ah Because, you know, it's easy to get lost in your world and only see what's happening to you. And not don't always see that light. Don't see beyond, you know, your abuser and what's happening to you. So.
00:10:12
Speaker
so Yeah, I mean, that was kind of my experience. i had well I had, like, most of the abuse that I endured happened at home. So going to school was like, oh, thank God, school.
00:10:23
Speaker
And I just, when COVID happened, I just, that was all I could think about are those poor kids that, like, school was the respite from that. And suddenly they were home for just months and months and years. And, you know, and some of them still didn't get to go back.
00:10:38
Speaker
Right. Yeah. and so and And for some of us, you know, school was just as bad, yeah you know. Well, school bully nothing to sneeze at for sure. Nope. Nope. And, know, the thing is people look at me right now and I'm six, six, three broad shoulders, 300 pounds. You know, I once kicked my martial arts instructor hard enough to break his cup.
00:10:57
Speaker
Oh, no. But no, it but it was fine. It scared the daylights out of him at the time. Well, yes. But, you know, in school, I was short and scrawny. It was one of the things that, like my my high school football program, I was like 5'6".
00:11:10
Speaker
And so I graduated tall, but didn't fill out until later. So, you know, nerdy, geeky, book librarian or library addict, all that. I was absolutely a target of bullies, you know.
00:11:22
Speaker
um yeah And the thing is, I was one who really didn't like to fight back. And so, you know, with most bullies, that's that's the worst thing that can happen because, you know i remember one time after school that had one of the bullies that was actually shorter than me, but I mean, he just was, you know, cussing me, calling me all kinds of names and all that, and reached up, popped me in the nose, made my nose bleed. I just stood there.
00:11:44
Speaker
So he stood there and punched me in stomach, punched me the nose again, and kind of like, well, screw that, and walked off, and he never picked on me again. Because it was no fun for him, you know? Wow.
00:11:55
Speaker
But it was it was my reaction, my natural instinct. ah you know I remember at one point I had a class that I took through work where they talked about dealing with conflict. and one of the things they talked about is that people, when they deal with anger or or conflict, are either a turtle or a skunk.
00:12:12
Speaker
You know, they either go and pull up into their own shell or they spray everybody around them. Mm-hmm. And I'm absolutely a turtle. I am one of those that's like, nope, nope, I will avoid conflict. And so that was a natural reaction for me of not hitting back.
00:12:27
Speaker
And so it just it just took all the fun out of it, you know, and it kind of got to that way with other kids after a while. They're like, well, you know, why pick on Birdie? I don't know. He won't fight back. And, you know, they don't get anything out of They don't get a rise out of me. So they gave up Wow. See, with girls, bullying is is different. It's usually more emotional and less physical. Not always, of course. There's yeah certainly bitch slap here and there. but Sure. Yeah. And and and there was still plenty of that going on. Absolutely a lot of that, you know the verbal abuse and calling names and, you know, making fun of this or making fun of that. Because like I said, I was short-scrawny and a geek or nerd or whatever at the time, you know.
00:13:08
Speaker
So I certainly got the verbal abuse, but for some reason, the physical abuse... stopped after that popped to the nose because it's kind of like well okay whatever yeah i mean wow that's ah i'm having high school flashbacks yeah i think most of mine stopped by the time i got into high school because that incident happened when in junior high and then it was like before 10th grade my mom got remarried she's been married five times if memory serves.
00:13:37
Speaker
Oh my goodness. This would be husband number three. And we moved from Arkansas to Colorado, which is where he was from. And in many ways, that was one of the best things that happened me because I wasn't my brother's little brother. You know, I wasn't anybody that anybody knew I could kind of reinvent myself, you know?
00:13:54
Speaker
um You know, people gave me all kinds of grief about having a Southern accent or whatever. But otherwise, it's like, oh, hey, cool, new kid in town. And other than normal new kid in town stuff, I had no other baggage. And that's probably one of the best things that could happen to him because I could just be me. And then I started attracting people who saw me as that person. you know I saw i have a best friend who's still a good friend now who started hanging around with me and called himself Ernie.
00:14:17
Speaker
You know, so we had Bert and Ernie all the time. You know, um yeah I played football, and ran track, I did all the things I would never do before because i was too afraid to. So it was very freeing just to be away from everything, you know, get away from all that emotional baggage of those first nine years of school.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah. Well, would think that would have to be different for kids today because you have an internet presence and that will would
Experiences with Bullying and Moving Forward
00:14:40
Speaker
follow you from school to school. Absolutely. Whereas back in the day, like when we were coming up, yeah, you went to a school on, you know, two towns over and no one knew the hell you were. Right.
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah. Cause that would have been 1982 would have been we moved to Colorado. So it's it's more than a few years ago, but yeah, I mean, I'm i'm glad the internet wasn't there. remember too many, stupid things I did as a kid. I'm glad there's no video evidence of that. Seriously, seriously.
00:15:08
Speaker
have ah Have any of your childhood bullies reached out as adults? that i I really haven't talked to too many of them. I've, you know, looked at a couple of them on Facebook to see what they're doing.
00:15:18
Speaker
And I think the closest one I had was, um there was a friend that I had in I went to a Catholic school for second through sixth grade and there's, there's some trauma in there too.
00:15:31
Speaker
But anyway, you know, the biggest thing I got from that was by the time I went to public schools in seventh grade, I was bored in classes for like two years. That as much as I struggled with various things with that Catholic school, we were light years ahead of public schools as far as the education, especially like a math and English language. I was way ahead, but anyway, it's One of the, there was a friend of mine that I went to school with at that Catholic school, and we were the two that were always the readers, you know, always reading, reading, reading.
00:16:01
Speaker
And, you know, they'd have the little poster up with, you know, gold stars every time you read a book and did a book review. And her name alphabetically was just above mine. And so both of us would get all enough gold stars, went all the way across the poster board.
00:16:14
Speaker
Then her stars would go up the poster board. My stars would go down the poster board. And so it was like, okay, that's cool. And you're really good friend. Probably, you know, I would say first crush. um And then we got into junior high and she kind of changed a little bit.
00:16:26
Speaker
And, you know, just kind of got in with the in crowd and all that. And a couple of years ago, she messaged me and was just like, you know what? She says, I have this gut feeling that I really treated you like crap in high school or in junior high.
00:16:40
Speaker
And she said, if i if I did, I'm sorry. And i actually I actually told her, said you know I said, I don't really remember anything about that. And I didn't see any reason to put that on her. you know um But I thought it was nice that she felt the reason to say, you know what?
00:16:55
Speaker
I really feel like I didn't treat him right. I need to i need to get right with that. And so you know I downplayed it. that's There's no reason to tell her, yeah, you're real bitch to me in junior high. But you know that's probably the closest that she was like, hey, if if I did, I'm sorry. And that's that's cool. you know That's what you want.
00:17:13
Speaker
but That's interesting. Yeah, I've had actually, i'll touch on two similar experiences. I actually started going to Catholic school in seventh grade after being in public school up to that point.
00:17:25
Speaker
And so my experience was the opposite. I was not at all prepared. i was on not on the, even though I write a lot. And, you know, I'm not a dum-dum, not great in math, and that, you know, can spill over into science.
00:17:40
Speaker
But, yeah, that was a, it was difficult. Plus, we had religion classes, and I was not raised with religion, so I didn't know but anything, really. I mean, I had, like, a vague idea.
00:17:52
Speaker
of of what you know Catholics believed, but it all seemed so ridiculous. And I remember thinking how weird it was that they were teaching it in school because it was so obviously pretend.
00:18:05
Speaker
And I was a full-ass adult before I realized that no, a lot of these people are not pretending. That that is a sincerely held belief that there's a dude in the sky who gets mad when you masturbate. And right I just, you know...
00:18:18
Speaker
And that was the thing that it it just took me a long time just to come to grips with that. And, you know, but um but also one of my bullies actually did reach out to me at one. But actually, a couple of them have on on like Facebook.
00:18:34
Speaker
But one night, one of my most like meanest bullies for the longest amount of time called me and he was drunk, like super drunk.
00:18:46
Speaker
But it was an apology call. And it was pathetic enough that I was like, dude, kid stuff. I don't care. by um Which is not 100% true, you know, because it's one thing for people to make like an errant comment or something that hurts your feelings. But when it is a years long campaign of meanness with, you know, that's.
00:19:10
Speaker
I honestly, i don't know how much we should let that go. i wonder if it would be more beneficial to the bullies and to society to be like, you know what? Fuck off, you prick.
00:19:21
Speaker
yeah You can't treat people that way. And you're apologizing to make you feel better, not me. So right there's that. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, i don't want to be one of those bitter feminists. You know how people don't like those.
00:19:35
Speaker
um Yeah. and's You know, it's one it's one of the things, too, that it's – you're speaking of religion all that. You know, i grew up obviously in Catholic school. And today I'd classify myself as either a nonbeliever or, if anything, closest to Buddhism.
00:19:50
Speaker
That's the reference to Osayam earlier as a movie. But, you know, I remember reading one time, and this has helped me mentally with different things. And, you know, you never – you know, you can forgive without forgetting. But i remember reading one time in a book by Charlotte Joko Beck, and she had a quote that says that everybody is doing every moment what they believe they need to do to survive.
00:20:14
Speaker
and as well as things as you kind of think about that and think, okay, you know, most people don't think, look and say, oh, that's a really fucked bird up. I'm going to do that. You know, most of them are like, this will help me feel better about myself or help with social standing or help with whatever.
00:20:28
Speaker
And it doesn't forgive them of it, but you at least look at it and say, you know what? They're doing what they believe they need to do for for them. and while that is selfish, that allows me to say, okay, it's not me.
00:20:41
Speaker
And it's easier for me to put that in a box and say, okay, you're a complete dick, but all right, good, go with it, you know. But yeah, I like that. Everybody's doing every moment what they believe they need to do to survive.
00:20:51
Speaker
Because that's what I'm doing you yeah yeah because that's one's saying. If I do something, and it's what I tell my wife, if I screw up, it's usually going to be a sin of omission and not a sin of intent. you know I'm going to forget something. I'm going to overlook something. I'm going not consider something. I'm never going to be like, this will really hurt her.
00:21:09
Speaker
Yeah. So, but yeah, that's, that's presuming that people are well-intentioned and presuming that bullies, which many bullies are in survival mode. I mean, if, if Stephen King has taught us anything, it's that bullies typically go home and get it even worse.
00:21:26
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. But again, and that's what saying. Sometimes that is say I have pent up anger that I cannot give to my father because he's going to beat the shit out of me.
00:21:37
Speaker
so I'm going to beat up on this kid at junior high. Right. Exactly. Exactly. and And again, doesn't excuse it, but you can kind of look it and say, you know what? That's got to be hard. what's What's going on in your life that makes you so angry, so hurt that your only outlet is hurting others?
00:21:53
Speaker
Right. And when you're being bullied, yeah the worst thing that would go through your mind, it isn't even about being hit. It's not necessarily about being made fun of. It's that voice in the back of your head. That's like, well, what if that's true?
00:22:07
Speaker
What if you're right? What if I deserve this? um You know, and if you can get rid of that aspect of it, the rest of it is like stubbing your toe. Right. Yeah. And then, you know, that, that, that takes time. And sometimes into adulthood, you know, I,
00:22:21
Speaker
I had some some struggles just from growing up that it caused me difficulties in my first marriage just because I had to learn how to grow up. You know, I didn't necessarily know what a healthy relationship looked like.
00:22:33
Speaker
And I kind of had to learn that. And i joke that, you know, um I have two sons from my first marriage and always joke that she was, you know, it's like raising my three sons because, you know, she had her kids, but she also had to kind of help me learn to grow up.
00:22:48
Speaker
And that was, you know, that was... That was hard for her, I'm sure. But it it she had the patience of Job and allowed me that time to live and grow. And, you know, I think I've got where I needed to be before she passed away. So that's that's good.
00:23:03
Speaker
Wow. Wow. Now, I am aware that you do not have a mental health diagnosis, even though um you've been impacted by abuse and and trauma.
Mental Health and Personal Growth
00:23:16
Speaker
So do you think that you have symptoms that could be addressed by a proper diagnosis? Um, that's a good question. I, you know, I'm, I'm a, I mean, that's what you're there for.
00:23:31
Speaker
Um, I think, I don't know. That's a good question. I've, I try to be self-aware. I mean, we aren't always self-aware. I try to be, um, and, uh, you know, I've, I've made enough screw-ups through my life that you almost ended my first marriage through my fault.
00:23:49
Speaker
And so I kind of had to get a little introspective on a lot of that. And, you know, I don't know if there's necessarily a diagnosis, but it's definitely a, you know, learn through your mistakes and try not to make them again type of thing.
00:24:02
Speaker
um But yeah, I don't, I don't know. I think a lot of it, you know, I don't know what label would be put on that, that you have childhood trauma that you need to deal with and whatever, yeah.
00:24:13
Speaker
Do you have any ah PTSD symptoms, for example? No, not really. Not really. I mean, there're there's still times that something will come up and be like, oh, wow, where did that come from? but you know, as far as a physical manifestation of it or anything like that, it's more of a just a thought process of, man, what but or brought that to my head and Can I fit that into a story or something? you know Well, that actually brings me to my next point, which is ah your your book, The Sting of Hope.
00:24:42
Speaker
um Now, this seems like it must be based on some some things that you've experienced. What do you want to tell us about this? Well, it's it's actually a short story. um Oh, okay.
00:24:53
Speaker
Although I am working on reworking it as a novella um because one of the things i've I've gotten some good, it's got like a 4.7 rating on Amazon or something. do but But one of the one of the common comments people have said is that they wanted more backstory. They wanted to know wherefore and why's and all that.
00:25:13
Speaker
And it was meant to be a 4,000 word story, whatever. So it wasn't meant to have this long in-depth thing in it. um So I'm working on that. But anyway, the gist of it is that um the protagonist, it's told from his point of view, and he's unnamed, but he has a son named Tony who has an unnamed diagnosis or health problem that he's just slowly declining.
00:25:41
Speaker
And in the story, though the wife bails via suicide. Um, and so he's got some anger from that. Um, and of course, you know, he's felt like he's on his own. And there, there was some of that with, with my first wife, because, you know, she, she passed away when my boys were 11 and 14 and 17.
00:26:03
Speaker
And, you know, even though it was nothing to do with her or her health, there was definitely some anger in there of, you know, why did you leave me? Why am I alone? Why did I, Why do I have to do this? Why did you do this to me?
00:26:15
Speaker
And so there's some of that that that comes through there. And my oldest, Zach, when he was born, um spent two weeks at Children's Hospital. And because he went into respiratory distress from swallowing amniotic fluid and some other struggles that he had.
00:26:32
Speaker
And there were my times that you know we just we didn't know if he would be around the next day. And at one point he had... where his had a, had tachycardia where his heart was just beating very, very fast and they weren't able to get it to slow down through medication. So they had to stop and restart it.
00:26:52
Speaker
And of course, anytime you stop a heart, it may not restart. it Like a cardioversion? Yes. Yeah. And so it's kind of like, you know, you're sitting there and it seems like it's an hour, but it's probably, you know, 10 minutes, you know, sitting in the chapel, just waiting to hear what's going on with him.
00:27:10
Speaker
So there's that fear of losing him that was in that story, you know, too, because, you know, what father
Parenting and Societal Challenges
00:27:17
Speaker
wouldn't do anything? Well, I wouldn't say what father, because obviously that's not true, but that was my point is what would you do to,
00:27:24
Speaker
if you could save your son, what would you go through? What would you try? And that's kind of the title comes from that, the sting of hope, um because sometimes hope can be dangerous too. oh yeah.
00:27:34
Speaker
So anyway, that's where that goes from. But yeah, there's definitely some of that with, you know, having that anger of having my wife pass away ah suddenly. And then also, you know, with my oldest being in an ICU for, you know, two weeks and all that. And then he's had a lot of health problems since then. And, you know, overall health wise, he's good. He's a bit of a butthead, but,
00:27:55
Speaker
and You know, he's 31 now and we didn't think he was going to survive outside the womb. So, know. Wow. Yeah. He's hard-headed like me. He just keeps on plugging, I guess. Man, that that is a victory right there. what a tale.
00:28:09
Speaker
um Yeah, i I actually wanted to talk about the title a little a little more because of that. Sting of Hope yeah is so evocative. And it just kind of gets you in your chest there. Because I think everybody has one of those times where you hoped and hoped and Yeah, I mean, not to overstate the obvious, but sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it doesn't.
00:28:33
Speaker
Right. And, and you know um ah you know, I can say that without it being a spoiler, but it's a body horror story and things go sideways. It's just how you tell the story and how it goes sideways. It's what makes it interesting. so I gotcha.
00:28:48
Speaker
I got you. Wait, did you send me a copy? I think you did. I don't remember, but I can if you want one. You should. You definitely should. Yeah. Me wanting. So you um you have two children, actually, yeah who belong to different marginalized demographics.
00:29:05
Speaker
run how How's that going these days? Well, it's it's good. You know, you talk about um trauma and, you know, any anybody who's a writer sees trauma around them and and gets ideas and thoughts and such from that too. And my oldest, that's part of that too, because, you know, he's got special needs. He's had a lot of challenges. And so I got to see things growing up and see, you know, there's a very reason I go from zero to a hundred real quick when I hear the word retard.
00:29:35
Speaker
oh Oh, yeah. but But a lot of people use it in a way that is like, oh, you quit being retired or whatever. And they don't mean it to be derogatory toward people with disabilities or whatever.
00:29:48
Speaker
But most of the time, it's because they don't realize how much that's punching down. you know How much you're saying, you are not this, you're not good, you're terrible, you're not smart, and you're like these people over here.
00:30:00
Speaker
They don't see the equivalency, but it's absolutely there. And I can already feel, i can already hear my voice going up on that, but yeah. Well, no, I mean, that's, it's important. The words that we use matter. And I i i know you don't want to talk politics, but the words that we use matter yeah and they matter because, well, it's like Carlin said, people think in language.
00:30:22
Speaker
yeah So if you are not cognizant of that, you know, there there are plenty of slurs and that I used as ah a kid in a team because I didn't know any better. Yeah. And, you know, people around me used it. And as a you know person with like ADD and autism, a lot of what we do is observe and and mimic because we don't really understand why people are doing a lot of the dumbass shit they're doing and saying.
00:30:46
Speaker
So you do it. And then, yeah, so you grow up and you say, well, wait a minute. I shouldn't be saying that. Like, I mean, I think it's fine to say, like, the growth of the plant was retarded by the lack of light because that is a reason.
00:31:00
Speaker
But if you're if you're actually calling a person that, you need to fuck right off. Yep, yep. No argument here. Whether it is a person with a disability or whether you're saying it just as as a way to call someone dumb.
00:31:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that all, that includes all the tarred suffixes to throw it onto something yeah or, or another one that sneaks by a lot of people is short bus jokes. yeah Yeah. But anyway, i wasn't say about my oldest is that, you know, good dealing with that because, you know, throughout a lot of school, he was, you know, in a special ed classroom, not in the mainstream and got a little bit around that with junior high and into high school where he would at least be in a mainstream class a little bit.
00:31:43
Speaker
But, you know, i saw a lot of that with, you know, him being called a retard. um You know, I remember what specifically one time a teacher called us and she was so mad because one of his classmates told him that they would be his friend if he would lick the bottom of his shoe.
00:32:02
Speaker
Oh, what? No. And he did because he wanted them to be his friend. And it's like, and I was like, oh, and, and it's like, you know, tell my first wife, you you cannot go to the hospital. You cannot go, excuse me. Can't, you not canno ah cannot go to the school and beat the crap out of this kid.
00:32:20
Speaker
Can't go to this home and beat the crap out of the pay parents. But the, yeah the, the, the teacher did talk to the kid the parents kids excuse the kids parents and they were just like oh they're just he's just being a kid it's like no you don't understand you really don't get it but you also you look at that and say well that's why he's doing that because home's like oh yeah that's okay you can do that you know i mean it isn't even about the the actual act it's about the cruelty ah what is making this person so cruel and what do we do about it
00:32:52
Speaker
Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And, but the same, you see that, and there's just countless stories of, you know, i just watched where he can be in a crowd and people look at him and you can see he's different in a way he moves differently. has gates different, his speech is different. So you can look at them and, you know, I always joke about it, that as a parent or somebody with special needs, that you have a radar, you can look at somebody and go, I don't know the diagnosis, but they've got one, you know, I can't really tell what that is, but there's something. And it just, you just immediately click and then you watch and go,
00:33:23
Speaker
Okay. All right. Yeah. You know, I'm reminded of the family guy episode where Brian dates a girl with down syndrome and Stewie says, he just says, so there's something up with her.
00:33:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. now So, and then um my youngest, they're non-binary and, you know, here in in Arkansas, you know, we've got good people and bad people everywhere.
00:33:52
Speaker
um But sometimes, you know, that's, that's difficult for him to be able to navigate that. And I always kind of wonder, you know, when he's going, cause he's 30, no, oh my oldest is 31.
00:34:06
Speaker
Let's see. My youngest is getting ready to turn 28, think. Yeah. eight thank yeah anyway 28 he is 28 now i keep waiting for him to move somewhere that's probably a little more blue than arkansas um but you know he he navigates very well um he's he's good at um identifying who he is and what he wants around him uh and he served he sort surrounds himself with people who are accepting of him and uh um you know you know, sometimes you have to deal with people who are not. That's part of life. No matter where you are and what out group you're in, you have to deal with people who are in a different group.
00:34:44
Speaker
But he does a really good job. And I apologize. i fa They do a good job. yeah um And I remind him when i when I say something like that, that yeah know If I say he, it's not intentional. i'm not trying to misgender him.
00:34:59
Speaker
It's just ah' it's ah it's a habit. you I get it. I've got a break to habit, but yes. I get it. I am not great at remembering. I very much want to. It is my intention to remember and and use people's pronouns appropriately.
00:35:15
Speaker
But i i'm just my my brain is not always there with me. course, I went to college with people that have been married for 30 years, and I'm still referring to them with their maiden name. so Yeah.
00:35:26
Speaker
But, and that's, that's one of the things that they've said before is that, you know, there's people who will, uh, point to them and say, oh, well, he stressing, he did this and that's an intentional misgendering. And that's, that's hurtful to me.
00:35:39
Speaker
That is so deep in who he is. They are, then it's no different than demeaning somebody for their faith or for their skin color whatever. It's who they are.
00:35:51
Speaker
And, um, You know, what's I can't put myself in their shoes, so I can't say, you know, this is how you should or shouldn't feel or whatever. So I just, you know, you validate it because it's important to them.
00:36:03
Speaker
Well, and I have never experienced a trans person, like if I accidentally use the wrong term, have them just go off on me. No. Because I'll do it and then I'll say, oh shit, I'm sorry. i i you know and And I think once they see my flustered embarrassment, a you know i hope it's at least...
00:36:24
Speaker
clear that I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but there are people that will, you know, it's this attitude of, well, why should I, why should I have to legitimize this thing that you do that I don't agree with?
00:36:36
Speaker
Right. Like, well, you know what? You're sitting there pretending to love Jesus. So if we're talking about who's legitimizing what, I won't be accepting your false claim of of Christ over there, ma'am.
00:36:49
Speaker
um or you get the people that'll say, well, I don't want to use pronouns. And you're like, well, you just did. I is a pronoun. Jesus never used pronouns.
00:37:00
Speaker
Jesus walked in and said, I am he. Yeah. That's, that's like one of his main things. Right. But, uh, and that, you know, that goes back to talking about how we were raised and all that. And I remember with my first wife, there was at one point, but cause at that point when we,
00:37:17
Speaker
even started dating. I was at that point to her, a former Catholic, you know, and she's Pentecostal. So okay that was a big difference. um I remember the first time I took her to the church where I grew up in the Catholic church and she went inside. She's like, she legitimately thought that lightning was going to strike her down then and there.
00:37:35
Speaker
my god But I remember at one point we were over at her parents' house and her father was ah a deacon in the church. And he was working on a sermon because it was his turn. And he was trying to remember where a particular scripture came from. And I told him, I said, I don't remember exactly what it was. I said, I think it's here or here.
00:37:56
Speaker
And he kind of thought about it and he said, well, said, well, let me look. And so handed his Bible and took me about a minute to find it and pointed it back out to him. And it just, his jaw just dropped because he's like, wait a minute, you know?
00:38:08
Speaker
And I think that got somewhere with my first wife, too, because then she was looking at saying, you know, here's somebody who is not claiming a faith, but I have a foundation to at least know what the book says, you know?
00:38:20
Speaker
And I still will now say that, you know, if if anybody here where people are using, you know, using religion as a wit weapon or whatever, my my sad thing is what I got from the Bible was always love all let God sort it out.
00:38:36
Speaker
And that's that's that was always my take on Anything beyond that, that's not my problem. Love all, let God sort it out.
00:38:44
Speaker
Well, that certainly seems to be Jesus's gist. Right. You know? Right. and That and, you know, don't be a dick or I will take you to task, which, you know, I'm in favor of that. But I mean,
00:38:58
Speaker
Or like what they say, you know, what would Jesus do? You know, so an option is sometimes flipping tables. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, I find um that when I discuss religion with Christians um of of that that stripe, um they're often surprised at that you know people that are not Christians have read the Bible.
00:39:22
Speaker
And first of all, most of us have that, you know, not necessarily foisted on us, but we experience Christianity because it's kind of hard to avoid. You know, every Christmas people get pretty out loud and proud about it Yeah. um But a lot of people say, and and I would tend to agree, that if you read the Bible front to back, you you have to wonder how they're basing a whole ass religion on it because it contradicts itself a bajillion times.
00:39:51
Speaker
And ultimately, i i just think if we looked at the totality of literature, that's not one of the books we would pick. if If we were starting fresh with no preconceived notions, there's lots of other books that would make more sense to base a religion on than that one.
00:40:07
Speaker
Yeah. But at same time, it's it's so deep in who they are that I look at it and say, okay, you know that's that's that's who you are. That's part of your faith. That's part of your believing. And I can't you know, you, if, if, if I expect people to validate my lack of belief, then I at least validate theirs as long as they don't use it as a weapon, you know?
00:40:27
Speaker
Um, so it, and it's, it's, you know, both of my wives were very devout Christians and I respect them for that. And we did, we both, we both have different foundations of where we think all of this comes from, but we both, all but all of us believe in treating people the right way, you know? So yeah, it's, it's, like I said, it's, it's,
00:40:49
Speaker
whether be God or Jesus whatever, but that's my thing is, you know, I'm going to treat people right. And my first wife, she always said that, you know, because people would ask her about that, you know, how could you date a non-believer? Aren't you worried that, you know, you're going to go to heaven and he won't or whatever? And she's like, her thing was always that, you know, the God I know would not punish somebody for treating people the right way just because he didn't believe.
00:41:13
Speaker
Nice. Nice. ah My husband actually said something similar because he was concerned. He's from a very religious family yeah and they were not entirely down uh, with him marrying someone who wasn't. So that was something that we had to discuss and and reach some, some conclusions on yeah his, his mom actually walked out of our wedding. She, she didn't see it after coming all the way to, to Michigan from Philly.
00:41:39
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. You know, when when my first wife passed away, there things that I said at the time was, you know, whatever it was she was searching for in life, I hope she found. And because even though it's not something I believe, it was so much a core of her, you know, what, what kind of love would that be to say, ha ha, hope you just rotten the ground.
00:42:00
Speaker
you know? a And so it's kind of like that same thing, you know, it's like, it's so much of who they are, as long as they're not using it to hurt somebody, I don't care what you believe in. It could be a flying spaghetti monster, ramen, let's go. i don't care. As long as you're not using it to hurt somebody, you know, but who you are, whether it be somebody who's non-binary, whether you're, you know, Buddhist or whether you're an atheist, whether you're Christian, whether you're whatever, you know,
00:42:24
Speaker
that's who you are and I think people should use it, be able to validate that and have that validated as long as they aren't using it to be hurting somebody else, you know. And unfortunately there are people in the LGBTQ community who use it as a weapon, you know, and sometimes even within the community, you know, I hear that from my youngest all often, you know, where they try to be exclusionary in some way of somebody in the community and it's like, you know, stop that.
00:42:48
Speaker
Well, i was I was horrified when I learned that there were anti-trans gay people. Like, that just shocked my socks. and Absolutely. you know And i don't know i don't know why I found it so shocking. But I you know just i think just the the simplicity of it was that you're a marginalized group. Why don't you have more empathy for other marginalized groups?
00:43:10
Speaker
Because some people are assholes. It's not like being in a marginalized group makes it impossible for you to be an ass. It just doesn't. you know right yeah it's just like you can be a minority and be a racist you know it's it's you can be like i said doesn't matter what your in group is if there's an out group you can be yeah you know hurtful and harmful to them whatever that out group is and uh yeah like i said even sometimes within the same in group but yeah i've heard heard my youngest talk about some trans exclusionary people in his community it's just like what the heck you know
00:43:45
Speaker
So when we talk about turning trauma and turning life experience into impactful literature, is that something that occurred naturally for
Writing and Personal Trauma
00:43:55
Speaker
you? Is it something that you like pointedly decided to try? How did that come about?
00:44:02
Speaker
I think it probably came naturally. um I remember in in high school, the one i one of the first stories I remember writing that I would call horror, um as far as not just playing around as a kid and being spooky. in high school, in my junior year, I wrote a story where ah a guy...
00:44:25
Speaker
um after getting dumped by his girlfriend, literally cut his heart out until he died, literally cut his heart out. Oh yeah. And, um, and you know, 11th grade and mind you, I feel sorry for the poor classmate who had to read that out loud because we were reading other stories.
00:44:46
Speaker
And, uh, it was one of things that not surprisingly ah month earlier, my girlfriend of a year had broken up with me. And so there was absolutely, you know I did, I think about it at the time. No, but you know, when I look back on, I was like, oh yeah, that was it. She broke my heart and that was all in that story, you know?
00:45:06
Speaker
But I also remember that as that story was being read, you know, I was, I was like staring at my desktop, know, was like, oh geez, you know? And then I looked around at one point and I saw one of the other girls in the class who looked at me and she pointed at the, at the one reading and then pointed at me like, is that you?
00:45:21
Speaker
I kind of nodded slightly and she made a little heart with her hands. Like, I love it. I was like, thank you. I appreciate that. But yeah, bless her heart. We just passed her on stories and she got that one.
00:45:32
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, and it and it does. I mean, i've I've got, you know, I know we haven't got into other books yet, but Dead Orphans, my collection of short stories. oh Oh, that's on our list. It's coming up. We're going to talk about it soon. um But branch into that a little bit. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of that.
00:45:49
Speaker
that, you know, you, if you read that, you will see where people are hurtful to each other. I'm a big, big proponent of, I like supernatural stuff, but most of my stories have people doing evil shit to each other. You know, there are enough monsters that we share, you know, a a classroom, a church, a house, a bed, a work job, whatever with people.
00:46:14
Speaker
that we don't necessarily need supernatural monsters. We're, we're capable of doing a lot of bad things to ourselves. And that shows up in the stories too. So I think that that's that natural transition of, you know, people treat each other poorly. And here's a story from that, you know?
00:46:28
Speaker
ah Yeah, I totally get that. um I always think it's, it's weird when, like, I assume most writers are working out their own personal stuff in, in
Empathy in Storytelling and Influences
00:46:40
Speaker
their literature. You don't want to assume too much, but like,
00:46:44
Speaker
Anne Rice is such a quintessential ah example of that because she had a daughter who died. yeah And in Interview with a Vampire, there is a vampire girl who lives forever.
00:46:56
Speaker
yeah And when she was asked about that in interviews, not only did she say no, no connection, but she was incensed yeah that it was presumed that there was a connection between those two things.
00:47:08
Speaker
And like my first novel is a total Mary Sue. It's about an abused fat girl who grows up and and kills her mom. so There you go. and And people ask me if it's about me, and I say, as far as I know, my mom's alive.
00:47:21
Speaker
So, you know, yeah that's just ah that, um but but the idea that it would be so obvious to everyone, but the author is I mean, as as an author, that's, that's a little unsettling. Like, well, what else is in my work that everybody now knows about me that I didn't realize i was telling them.
00:47:44
Speaker
Right. But you know, they also have that, that joke too, about, you know, that, you know, somebody's reading an author's piece and, The teacher's up there saying, well, the curtains are blue because it demonstrates his melancholy and this and that. And the author's like, no, the curtains are fucking blue.
00:48:00
Speaker
That's it. you know they're They're blue because I like blue. yeah They're blue because I'm sitting here. I looked up and the plate in front of me is blue. So they're going to be blue. I don't know. But yeah, I mean, they they do. And and you know ah I think you you if you pay attention, if you're empathetic enough that you pay attention to other people, you see those things. You see that trauma.
00:48:21
Speaker
you know, my, my wife right now, she, she had a special needs daughter who passed away at 12 years old oh and she passed away before my wife and I ever met. But I see that, you know, i see the, you know, she, she died four days after Christmas.
00:48:40
Speaker
And so, you know, I see the other kids playing and opening gifts and how hard that was. And, You know, just knowing how hard that death anniversary and how hard her birthday is every single year. And she's been gone for 18 years, but it doesn't get better.
00:48:58
Speaker
You know, you expect you expect to bury your parents. You don't expect to bury a child. And i I can't understand what that feels like. You know we almost lost my oldest. But it's that's different than almost doesn't count. You know, it's still the trauma, but it's different.
00:49:15
Speaker
And I have no idea what that feels like. I don't want to know what that feels like. All I can do is be there to kind of share that pain. But that's part of it also, is you look around and you look at the people who are being called retards, or you look at somebody who is being excluded from their community for whatever reason, or you see the pain that somebody is has had and and and, you know, you can't You know, it that and that doesn't necessarily, it may get better, but it doesn't ever go away, you know.
00:49:45
Speaker
And I think if you can tune into that and be empathetic, there's there's a lot of depth you can add to your stories from that. Well, empathy, I mean, it's so important for writers to have just that, that you know, empathy and and self-reflection, you know, all that there.
Charity Work and Anthologies
00:50:02
Speaker
um Now, one of the things that we ask with permission, um because we always get consent before we ask this question, but was there a time in your life when you were in legitimate fear of it ending? Yeah.
00:50:17
Speaker
Um, there's probably been a few, I mean, there's, there are some times that, um, ah again, you know, growing up and having to learn how to grow up as an adult that, you know, I didn't process anger well, um, you know, holes in sheetrock from punching it at throwing things, things like that. And, you know, times it's like, you know,
00:50:44
Speaker
you're, we're driving somewhere and I'm being yelled at because I screwed up on something and thinking how easy it'd be to just swerve the car into a tree, you know? Um, and things like that, that, you know, I'm not proud of, but I'm proud of the fact that I look at that now and go, okay, that's a different me, you know, that's a me that processed through those things. Um, but, uh, I mean, I've had one time that I know that I'm,
00:51:10
Speaker
luckily to be ah alive and that's because i fell asleep while driving a car at 80 miles an hour and hit the end of a gargoyle wow about three feet to the right and it would have gone into a 30 foot down dry bed dry river bed so being asleep being asleep was good because i was relaxed i was a little sore and that was it and that's considering the airbag didn't deploy um But, you know, that's one of things that's, that's not in fear of your life. That's like, Oh, Whoa, I'm awake now. What happened? And why am I yes man where I am?
00:51:46
Speaker
Um, so m if you snore, sleep at me as a thing, get it fixed. Um, right. So, but, uh, yeah, I mean, there, there's, yeah, and there's there's, that's probably the closest time that I've really looked at and thought, wow, this could have happened. And,
00:52:03
Speaker
You know, mother tells a story about a time that everybody was swimming at the swimming hole. And I decided I was going to jump in too, but i didn't know how to swim. You know? Oh, and you were a skinny kid. Skinny kid sink. Yeah.
00:52:14
Speaker
So she had to dive in and save me. I don't remember. She tells me about it, but I was like, well, yeah, that probably couldn't have ended well, you know? and Right. but Wow. Okay.
00:52:26
Speaker
So I got a whole bunch of questions about your work. Are you ready? Oh, absolutely. Let's start with dismember the coop. Okay. Okay. That is, just remember the coop is a charity anthology and it is a bunch of stories, 15, 16 stories that are inspired by the music of Alice Cooper.
00:52:47
Speaker
And it's a horror anthology. So people were able to take, you a lot of what Alice has done over the years has been horror. You know, he calls it vaudeville, but it works um because that's really all he's doing is he's doing vaudeville.
00:53:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's just dark. Yeah, it's dark. Absolutely. You know, get he channels a little bit of screaming Jay Hawkins and some other things that he's seen over the years and grew up with and being the anti Beatles and stuff like that.
00:53:13
Speaker
But yeah, and the whole idea was just you know take a story and take a um snippet of it or just the theme of it and create your own backstory and your characters from it and things like that.
00:53:24
Speaker
And this there's a story, ah there's a song, Alice, went back when he was a group and not solo called Billion Dollar Babies. And in it, there's a phrase about um dancing around with um a doll or a young girl, whatever, that, you know, I'm so scared your little head will fall off in my hands.
00:53:44
Speaker
And so I took that literally and thought, well, what would what would that be like? You know, how how would that be a real thing? And even though it has nothing to do with the song, because the song is really all about excess, fame, fortune, excess, and took it about a guy who, know,
00:54:04
Speaker
he ends up getting divorced from his wife, um, after she sleeping around, um, and the the the wife gets the custody of their daughter. And at some point he, you know, he just, he goes down in the deep hole, um, life without them and anger and all that.
00:54:21
Speaker
And at one point he comes across a, um, car wreck and, uh, wife and daughter in the car. And that's what he sees. And that's what he, so he takes a little girl whose neck is sideways and brings her home because that's his daughter and of course it really wasn't but uh it's basically the story goes from there of him trying to keep her in good enough state uh shape that he could dance with her and it's called daddy daughter dance and it kind of gets a little dark after that oh oh does it after that yeah it gets dark after that and it's kind of funny because one of the reviews from it um
00:54:58
Speaker
Somebody had talked about how some of them are, there's one that's more humorous. There's some them that's more horror noir. um Some that's kind of a horror westerns. And then he refers to mine as quote unquote being just plain fucked up.
00:55:14
Speaker
and So my wife has a cricket that she does for, she uses for making t-shirts and, you know, signs and things like that. And she's done a lot of the stuff that I use for ah cons and such one other there, but she, she made me a t-shirt that has that quote on there with an asterisk gun for the U and then has that as a quote for that story.
00:55:32
Speaker
no Because it's like, you know, that's t-shirt material. yeah Oh, totally. And if you like horror, you want something that's just fine fucked up. And it's probably the darkest of the stories, but that's okay. But anyway, it the the thing is it's a charity anthology. Alice and Cheryl Cooper have an organization that they have in the Phoenix area i'm called Solid Rock Teen Centers.
00:55:54
Speaker
And what they do is they teach teens that come in. They've got three or four centers. I think they just opened a new one. They've got several of them. And you come in and it's like you want to learn guitar, they'll teach you guitar. You want to learn how to dance, they'll teach you dance. You want to learn how to paint, they'll teach you to paint. They will find somebody to teach you for free.
00:56:12
Speaker
And that their whole thing is just, you know, in general with teens of any age, if you give them someplace to be and a reason to be there, they stay out of trouble. Yep. And so anything above, you know, anything that gets sold online, of course, I don't have a cost for that.
00:56:28
Speaker
So any proceeds from that goes directly to them. And if I sell books, you know, in person or whatever, anything above my cost of shipping and, And, you know, buying the books themselves goes to them, too. So I've been able to donate several hundred dollars already to them. So it's it's pretty cool. But it's kind of a good nice nice way to kind of give back to somebody who gave me all the years of music and horror movie suggestions and all that. And, you know, that, you know, being a martial arts instructor, I always love people who gave back to teens in particular because they're such a yeah vulnerable part of their lives.
00:56:59
Speaker
Yeah, totally. Totally. And it's it's such a good collection. I mean, I have not been through the whole thing, but we had JC on here talking about it as well. And he sent me a copy.
00:57:10
Speaker
I actually had wanted to submit. i was working on a story, but that was the year that I got sick. So I ended up not submitting very much that year. I put my own book out and that was it.
Horror Writing and Inspirations
00:57:20
Speaker
Yeah, I had a whole Ballad of Dwight Frye thing that I was this new. life Right?
00:57:26
Speaker
So I gotta be more Johnny on the Spot with Antho submissions. i Now, you also made a horror word search book. Yeah. How come?
00:57:37
Speaker
Tell me why I don't know. um You know, as a writer, you never know where your inspiration comes from. And sometimes the line at Dollar General is really slow, so you start picking up the books around you. And I picked up, actually it was a Crossroad puzzle, the first one I picked up.
00:57:55
Speaker
I kind of looked at something and one of the clues had something about Stephen King in it. And I thought, oh, I wonder if there's any books out there, crossword puzzle books that are just horror related. And so I looked and there really wasn't a whole lot. And so i kind of messed with that a little bit. And the formatting is really hard on crossword puzzles, you know, because you've got to the blocks and the spacing and make sure they all fit. And it's like, didn't have the time to mess that, but I could figured I could do word searches.
00:58:19
Speaker
And so I just basically started to try to put it together and say, okay, um you know, let's think about, you know, 1980s horror movies. And so I'll look up, um you know, on IMDb or something, you know, 80s horror movies and find some that I wanted. I'd either put in clues that are either, you know, actors from them, the names of the movies, characters in the movies, whatever.
00:58:40
Speaker
and you know, that could be one or Stephen King could be one or Dean Koontz or Clive Barker or 1930s films or 1990s novels, whatever. And there's, you know, 50 different of word searches that are just horror themed.
00:58:53
Speaker
And the good thing about it is, you know, because that's there's just the words, you don't have to be a horror fan. Far and away, when I go to cons and such, the people who buy them are like, oh, my son, my daughter, my grandmother, is going love this. Right, that is definitely a gift.
00:59:06
Speaker
It is a gift, yeah. And I don't know, I have very few people that have bought it, have bought it for them. It's always like, oh, oh, Wednesday would like this, I'm going to buy that for her, you know? Right. And it works out. So it's just another thing that's like, well, okay, sure. And For whatever reason, in January so far, that's my biggest seller on Amazon. And this is where I'm shrugging. I don't know why, but it is. so That's great, though.
00:59:29
Speaker
So like if somebody is completely unfamiliar with your work, where is the best place to start? um The best place to start, I describe my writing as ah shotgun horror.
00:59:43
Speaker
um Because, you know, yeah i mentioned Dead Orphans earlier. And it's got short stories in it. It's got some tweets in there, interestingly enough, too. um And things like that. But some of them are just break your heart.
00:59:57
Speaker
Some of them are absolutely splatter punk and they just run full range. You know, some of them have creepy supernatural stories. Some have people just treating each other. They have one of them with a bunch of old ladies that is funny as hell, but also brutal.
01:00:11
Speaker
And so I call my style shotgun horror because it's all over the place. And so that's probably the best place is shotgun horror.com. Oh, okay. That actually takes you to my link tree and that can,
01:00:24
Speaker
You can find my books. You can find where you can order them directly from me if you want them signed. Or you can order them through regular retailers like Amazon or Barnes & Noble or Walmart.
01:00:35
Speaker
Well, we'll have your link to you in the description. Cool. So people can use that as a jumping off point. But yeah, Dead Orphans is the collection. And I was i saw that it does have stories that are told as tweets.
01:00:48
Speaker
Now, does that mean they were written on Twitter or is that just a stylization? No, they were actually written because one of the things they have, I haven't been on Twitter in a long time because. Nor should you.
01:00:59
Speaker
Twitter. um But it used to be they had a thing called VSS 365 where every day they would have VSS being very short story. Where somebody was in charge of, for that month, they would come up with a word a day. And your whole idea was to write a tweet that would be a story with that as a word used in it.
01:01:20
Speaker
And so, you know, people could have something like, you know, cup and you'd have to come up with a story that had that in it. And so those are a collection of tweets I wrote at the time um that would basically try to be an entire story and a tweet, which at one time was 140 characters. That's when most of them were written.
01:01:37
Speaker
Now it's like 280 or unlimited or i don't know what it is nowadays, but at one point it was 140. So most of those are really short. So am a big fan, especially as an editor, I'm a big fan of word economy.
01:01:49
Speaker
And I will get it. you know The authors I work with, I'll be like, you know, you don't need to say and then you could just say and or you could say then. right get Get rid of your that's stuff like that. And so that really being able to say not just, you know, you know, they have drabbles, which are 100 words. I've got a couple of those in there, too.
01:02:06
Speaker
But, you know, 140 characters is, you know, 15, 20 words. Okay, now I heard this, so I have to ask you. Yes. I have heard that if you write a drabble, which is 100 words, that you are not supposed to repeat any words.
01:02:21
Speaker
Is that part of your philosophy? i have not heard that. Okay. I have not heard that. i've I mean, the challenge is to have it exactly 100 words. Not 100 words less, but exactly 100 words. And to me, that's a challenge. Now, that would be interesting to not repeat a word, but that would be...
01:02:37
Speaker
Well, yeah, you'd have to, like, avoid articles, which yes that seems impossible. Yeah. um It'd be like trying to write write an entire book without using the letter E, which has been done before. Yeah.
01:02:50
Speaker
I'm a good work guy. Yeah. yeah those Those tweets are just ones that, you know, they have everything from, ah and you'll see things that relate to, you know, somebody getting revenge for being called a retard to a lynching in the South to um just somebody taking care of daddy after a years of sexual assault, you know?
01:03:14
Speaker
Um, it's just whatever you can squeeze into 140 characters. And it's, it's, it's different. It's different. i've I've definitely had some people who've given the feedback of like, I want more. I want these stories fleshed out because I'm already invested.
01:03:28
Speaker
And, um, I think that one of the best compliments I've ever gotten, I had is somebody who was commenting, you know, on Facebook, somebody will say, Hey, you know, post your links here before, you know, below, and everybody can kind of post what books they have for sale. and And somebody who had read one of mine commented, uh,
01:03:43
Speaker
specifically dead orphans, they commented and says, you know, you may not like the stories. There's some taboo in there because I do. There's, you know, childhood sexual assault. There's rape. There's abuse. There's all kinds of things in there because I'm one of those that those things are uncomfortable for a reason. So let's address them, you know?
01:04:00
Speaker
Yep. Yep. But anyway, he he said, um he said, you know, you may not like the subject matter, but I promise you. And he put he period will period make period you period feel period.
01:04:13
Speaker
Nice. Fantastic. I will take that. will take that. And that's of the things that, one the best compliments I got from somebody also was said that the emotions I drive from them reminds them of reading Eric LaRocca, which is a hell of a compliment because love his writing.
01:04:28
Speaker
But boy, he's like, ah I'll take that. That's one of the things I love to do is if I can't like and ah and And I go back to it. We didn't really get into origins of it. But my first thing that I ever read that really got me going on modern horror was Carrie.
01:04:44
Speaker
um And i remember first reading it when I was, ah
01:04:52
Speaker
but it was probably about a year or so after it came out. And so I had gone to library and I had run across it because it was on the bestsellers thing. And I got looking at and flipped through it a little bit. thought, oh, I like that. And I went to check it out in the library. I was like, no, you can't check this out. You're too young.
01:05:06
Speaker
yeah I was like, oh, and she said, but I can't control what people read while they're here. yeah And I was like, okay. So I went to the back out out of sight and started reading it. And, you know, when I, in my, back at the time, my mom and stepdad used to just drop my brother and I off at the library. And, you know, they'd leave for three hours. I don't know what they did. Don't care.
01:05:26
Speaker
but But they would just leave us be and we would just wander. you know, kind of started that lifelong love of libraries. But i you know, for over probably about a month and a month and a half, every weekend we'd get dropped in I'd pick up where I left off.
01:05:38
Speaker
And so i read Carrie off and on for a month and a half or something like that. And that happened when I was eight. So, but one of the things i always say is that that I had read some Poe before and I loved with of the third the poem that got me addicted it to Poe was not the Raven. It was Annabelle Lee.
01:05:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And I love the gothic feel of it. You could really feel his emotion and his sadness and his sense of loss. And it's like, ooh, I love that. but and that's one of the things when I read Carrie, it reminded me of that. And it's like, that's what i that's when I said, I want to be a writer. Because I looked at that and said, I want to make people feel that.
01:06:18
Speaker
I want people to go, what the fuck? Where did that come from? I don't know. You may not like it, but i want to make you feel. and that's my goal. If I can make you feel something, even if it's I hate you, I'm throwing your book against the wall.
01:06:30
Speaker
Mission accomplished, you know? And so getting that compliment on there of he will make you feel. I'm like, all right. Thank you. I'll take that. Have you ever read a book and then threw it against the wall because you were so mad at it?
01:06:42
Speaker
No, no, no. Back back to the past, I've thrown books because I was angry, but that had nothing to do with the book. i I'll tell you, um i threw Mystic River against the fucking wall when I was done reading. I was so, so angry at that ending. wow And, you know, well, Dennis LeHan, man, he's just a dick.
01:07:03
Speaker
I mean, I've never met the dude, but his stories give every indication that he just likes to mess with people. Yeah. Yeah. But, but that's what you're saying. Like, I'm, yeah, I've, I felt that I felt that in my heart, sir. So, you know, gosh, I haven't read best of river and it had to be maybe not long after it came out, but I need to go back. I read it right away. There's so many books out there to read. It's hard for me to go and say, Ooh, I want to reread that. You know, I mean, I sat and read it over a day, ah little over a day because I had to read it. And I mean, I was working graveyard shift. It's like,
01:07:40
Speaker
work on computers, I'd start a process, go in and I'd read a few pages, start something else, read a few pages. Didn't sleep for like a day and a half just to finish the book, you know? But I probably won't read it again because there's so many other books, you know?
01:07:53
Speaker
Well, it it is a long read. It is a very long read. Yeah. But, you know, that's also, you we're talking about books that hit differently as adults and kids and things like that, Pet Sematary, you know? I read that when it came out when and when I was a teen. I was like, oh, that's messed up.
01:08:07
Speaker
yeah and very too Like when I read Carrie, I think I was probably 10 or 11. Yeah. And so like younger than the core cast, but the thing about Carrie though, like as a novel, it is a masterclass and how to tell a story. And like, if you're learning about point of view and why it's important, Carrie is just masterful at that because there's all those different points of view.
01:08:31
Speaker
yeah Yeah. and's It's, it's, it's really good. And the thing like Pet Sematary, you know, I, read it again as an adult. And, you know, I, I mean, we can talk spoilers on the book. It's 40 years old, but when when when Gage gets hit by the truck, you know, my first thought was I've been sitting in the NICU hoping my son would be alive five minutes from now, you know, that hits different than when you're teen and you go, Oh, that's fucked up, you know, yeah ah but it also goes in that thing of, you know, people separating the art from the artists and all that, you know,
01:09:03
Speaker
You know, you look at some of the things people write in extreme or, or splatter punk or whatever. It's like, what is wrong with you? I always say the same thing. Do you think Stephen King's out pushing toddlers in front of 18 wheelers? You know, just because write about it doesn't, if you could get away with it, maybe. But, you know, that's what saying. it's I always use that example because it's so, people get that. They know that scene.
01:09:25
Speaker
And so I can say, do you think that because he wrote that, that he encourages that or whatever? That's the same thing. If somebody had write something really violent, it doesn't mean they're violent. You know? In fact, it probably means that they're not.
01:09:37
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. well That's back to the writing the trauma. You write the trauma so you don't go out and do push toddlers in front of 18 wheelers. But, you know, also a lot, especially in horror, horror authors, more than any I've run across are more empathetic than most people I know. And but I think it's because a lot of them have the trauma that they write.
01:09:55
Speaker
So they look at other people and go, dude, I know where you're at. I've been there. yeah no that's That's my experience with horror writers as well. And not that other genres aren't, because I certainly know more people in that community But, you know I've looked at times when somebody in the community needs help and it's either a fundraiser through auctions or just a GoFundMe
Interacting with Famous Authors
01:10:15
Speaker
or whatever. And it's amazing how they and their fans step up.
01:10:21
Speaker
You know, it just blows me away every time. Yeah. Well, and there's a lot of layers to that, too, because in general, poor people are more likely to help you than people, even though rich people have more means and young people that are like, you know. But the thing is that we don't have that snootiness, like people that are huge in their fields are still, you know, approachable and great.
01:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. You know, when we were coming up, when we were kids, if you wanted, i mean, you couldn't just find an author and tell them what you thought of your book. Like maybe you could find their address and maybe you got it together to like get a stamp and an envelope and everything.
01:11:01
Speaker
But, you know, think people just weren't approachable like they are now. And there's, you know, pluses and minuses to that, certainly, because now that we know people like the things that they tweet when they're, you know, drunk after work or whatever, like, I wish I didn't know a lot of the things that I now know about people. And not just like the predators and stuff, but just people that, you know...
01:11:27
Speaker
like some of the the chrises you know all those famous chrises some of them are bad like there's a bad one so yeah yeah it's it's funny though because you mentioned ramsay i was going to mention name drop the same way because he strikes me as somebody that is so down to earth you know he joins a horror group and his intro message is hi i write horror yeah No shit. You're a legend in the field. But the thing is, and he's always, if somebody is having a something, he's very you know supportive. He always say, hey, keep doing this and keep doing that. And he even talks sometimes about how he struggles with writer's block, you know, and what he does to do with it. And I know he he does art and you know his ah drawing whatever he sees out his
01:12:11
Speaker
window is one of his ways of kind of clearing his mind but you're right he just he just chats with everybody i'm like you were literally one of the first people along with stephen king that looked at went oh cthulhu he kind of took the whole lovecraftian things and went his own way with it and yeah and and just so many of his books are so good i'm like i mean there's people that i talk to you i talked to him and you know nancy collins is somebody else that i love some of her vampire stuff it's like talk to her all the time and she's actually was from lived in arkansas for a while so We talk about that once a while, and it's just like there's people I talk to, even Graham Masterton.
01:12:44
Speaker
yeah He'll talk about some things. I'm like, you know these are people that I would yeah i'd be lost for words if I was sitting around them. Right, but right. Like Craig Spector John Skip. or the um Billy Martin, a.k.a. Poppy Z. Bright.
01:12:58
Speaker
Oh, yes. Billy is awesome. Yeah. Yeah, and and that and that's that's the things, you know, i talk about books that are those that change the way you think, and a lot of things that Billy did as Poppy were just mind-blowing.
01:13:12
Speaker
At the same time, Kathy Koja was another one, too, that said, like, Cypher and a couple of her books were like, that changed my mindset of how to write horror because they wrote in such a different way.
01:13:24
Speaker
I tend to write more like... a Stephen King, I'm more of a storyteller. You know, I tend to tell, oh, hey, and I'll even have Southern draws and, you know, make it locale to hear and things like that.
01:13:35
Speaker
But I love the way that both of them, Poppy and Kathy wrote things. It's like, ah, and And, you know, it's like, you know, you're you're I'm sitting here having a conversation with Billy about things with his water bill. And I'm like, this is somebody that i I waited for weeks to get the book from the library. And here I'm talking to him about his water bill. I'm like, that's just so weird. It is. And it it also, like for me, talking to these people online taught me something interesting.
01:14:04
Speaker
that I wasn't expecting to learn, which is that I was very much gauging my own success as a writer. um Not
Defining Success in Writing
01:14:13
Speaker
entirely, but largely ah that my validity was determined by how much money I was making from selling books.
01:14:21
Speaker
And the fact that some of the writers that we talk to online, we see that they are not living opulent lifestyles. They are not... you know, flush with cash. They have, you know, those like, Oh shit, I'm broke till payday kind of days just like the rest of us.
01:14:39
Speaker
Well, and the thing is that like, I, I couldn't use that gauge anymore because obviously, but in it, for me, that means I'm not going to put myself down because I'm not making as as much money as I want to be with, with books that that's not really the indicator Right. of Of whether or not you're you're having success and doing what but you, are you know, because because I get to write for my job.
01:15:06
Speaker
You know, my day job is sex writing. And then, like, my real passion is is horror. um And just the fact that that's what I get to do is enormous, you know.
01:15:18
Speaker
And if it means that I get to do everything I want to do, but then I still get to be poor. Because, I mean, I used to have clients that paid pretty well. But they were Texas clients and they wanted me to write about guns and they wanted me to sell cosmetics to tweens and stuff that I just I just didn't feel comfortable with it. And I didn't you know, I certainly wouldn't want to put my name on something like that. So sure.
01:15:43
Speaker
So what are you what are you working on these days? You got anthologies coming up, right? Yeah, I've got a couple of them that I'm working on. um One of them I've got all the stories in for, and ah much like the Alice Cooper one, although not charity, I'm doing one ah with stories based on the music of Bluish to Cult.
01:16:01
Speaker
And um I've got the 17 stories for it, and um I've got a somebody who's agreed to do the forward for it, which I'm not going to say who it is.
01:16:12
Speaker
Aw, what? yeah Offline. Yeah. the But anyway, they've agreed to do the forward to it. So I need to get at least some rough edits so that they can read it and give some feedback and and all that, you know, and while I work on the formal edits. um But I'm kind of getting that. I'm hoping for.
01:16:30
Speaker
I've talked to Francois Villancourt about doing the cover for that. And he's so good. But yeah, I know. was like, Ooh, I mean, anybody who's done work for Stephen King, I like that.
01:16:42
Speaker
But Francois is going to the cover art, but they, I've, I've got him pinned in for penciled in for March. So maybe April release for that. And then I've got another one that I'm working on, which is um it's actually an invitation anthology. It started with, uh,
01:16:57
Speaker
an author had posted and said, Hey, if you could do an anthology, you know, what would it be about? And you can invite any 10 people who would those 10 people be? And so I came up with, it you know i really want to do like a dark fantasy type of thing.
01:17:10
Speaker
And here's the 10 people I thought would be a good idea. And like eight of them replied back at this. Cool. Let's do it. Oh, wow. that's I was like, Oh, that's good. So, uh, I know. And then I found some other people and couple of people have been ah in and out and one has had some life issues getting away and some have had some health issues. So it's, it's kind of dragged along, but it's a pet project. You know, I don't want anybody to, who I don't have a story from yet to be like, Oh, I need to do this instead of working on my novel. No work on your novel, you know? Um, but I don't know when that's going to be released. Uh,
01:17:43
Speaker
But I've still got to get some more stories from the people on that. But that'll just be whenever, you know, it's just a fun project. um And then, like I said, I mentioned before, Sting of Hope, I'm rewriting as a novella.
01:17:54
Speaker
And I'm probably going to do that on like a mass paperback size, you know, smaller a trim size on that. Because it's probably going to be, you know, 15, 20,000 words, something like that, whenever it's done. So not huge, but enough to at least have something else out there and be able to take the story of Tony and his dad and and the the mom and all that and kind of flesh out how they got to where they were and where they got there and all that. So those are the big things. And then of course I'm also, you know, i also do editing and formatting for others. So I've got several projects there. I've got two people I'm doing formatting for and two people I'm doing editing for. So.
01:18:29
Speaker
Wow. Full plate. Yep. Yep. Got to, got ah you know, any business, you got to diversify the income streams, right? Totally.
Diversifying Income Streams
01:18:37
Speaker
Totally. That's why I got a soap business.
01:18:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Hey, listen, I love that. i love things like that. i I'm always playing with something, trying to learn how to make soaps or make wine or candles or who knows what. I just always love, love learning new things. And it drives my wife nuts because it's always something that's onto something else. And it's like, why do we have these three things in here for doing wine? if you're not going to wine again, Oh, I will someday.
01:18:59
Speaker
Well, one of the coolest things about having a soap business is that I had occasion to hire a sculptor ooh to make me custom molds. Yeah. We have a, We have one that's um Kurt Barlow from the 78 Salem's Lot.
01:19:13
Speaker
We have um and Jaws. we have a ah it's It's a very obvious Jaws shark. We have Blinky the Three-Eyed Fish, which we don't call that because that would be infringement.
01:19:26
Speaker
Sure. And we have the Zuni fetish from ah Trilogy of Terror. Nice. Those are all available as soaps in our soap shop. Which is also on coffee. It's just a different coffee. It's a coffee yeah scared sopless.
01:19:39
Speaker
Nice. Yeah. Big fun. um did Did we cover everything that you wanted to talk about? Oh, sure. I just want to talk. seems like we did, right? I think so. I think so. I mean, have have anything that was theme related we needed to cover and talk about what I'm working on and just chatting. That's half the fun to see where the conversation goes.
01:19:58
Speaker
Well, i also like to give a guest an opportunity to ask me a question if they want to. So is there anything you want to ask me? um
01:20:08
Speaker
Well, we we we discussed Evil Dead earlier. what's What's your favorite horror movie, if you had to name one? It's like favorite children. Right. No, I can never narrow it down to one.
01:20:21
Speaker
For many, many, many years, it was a deadlock between Psycho and Night of the Living Dead. Ooh, both great for different reasons. Yeah. And then The Mist came out and immediately catapulted itself to my my top three.
01:20:35
Speaker
So, well, and The Mist is one. Mist is hated. Why do people so many people hate The Mist? Well, because they're mad at the ending and it's not the book ending. there' that's I think that's why they're mad at it. But the thing is, first of all, it's Frank Darabont who is, I mean, if we're going to be trusting people to direct our work, Darabont is the guy.
01:20:55
Speaker
Sure. But if Stephen King is okay with it, then it's none of my business. But, you know, like that's, that's not for us to say, cause it is a ah logical ending. I actually think the missed movie fixed things that I didn't like about the book.
01:21:10
Speaker
yeah um Yeah. Which was, was helpful. I don't know how, ah how well, you know, that story, but I didn't like that. He, he slept with the yeah woman. I didn't like that at all.
01:21:21
Speaker
It was, it seemed unnecessary, seeing the extraneous to the whole story. And it was, yeah, and it it just makes me like him less. And I didn't want to like him less. I wanted to dislike Myron. um yeah Yeah.
01:21:33
Speaker
But you you talk about the difference though, you know, Cujo, the movie ended differently than the book, you know, spoiler alert, the kid dies in the book, but not in the movie. um But, you know, it's like, who cares? It's a good story. I pretty much do that, especially, you know, um with um ah comic books, for example, you know,
01:21:52
Speaker
The Marvel comic universe is so different from the comic books. I don't care. It's a story. You know, somebody looked at it says, you know, it's like fan fiction. You know, I don't care. That's the same thing. You know, I looked at The Mist and thought, oh, that is different. But I like that. That makes sense. You know, it makes sense as an ending.
01:22:06
Speaker
I think the other thing that gives people pause about The Mist is that here in America... we are much less likely to kill children in movies. And if we do, it's because it's a movie about ah a kid that died.
01:22:21
Speaker
Like we, we don't, I don't know if you saw, um, Oh gosh, I'm forgetting the title. There was a, a movie about a couple, like two couples that hang out together and then all this sinister stuff starts happening and they just remade it last year in American version with James McAvoy.
01:22:40
Speaker
And the the title is escaping me. But in the the European version... the kids... you know there's There's one kid in question... And that kid dies... And it he dies badly. And it's very upsetting to the viewer.
01:22:55
Speaker
And then in the American version... the It all goes another way, you know, but you don't, you don't really get those like bleak martyr ask European endings in this country, you know? And that's, that's why I think a lot of hardcore horror fans prefer foreign horror because. Oh yeah.
01:23:13
Speaker
anything can happen and if it's french somebody's gonna end up in a bathtub full full of blood yeah but believe it yeah and then and then you get people who will look at you know gauge getting hit by an 18 wheeler and pet cemetery and shrug and then you know the dog dies and i wrote and uh um ah oh like i am legend yes i am legend thank you i i was thinking i am i'm i robot because i just watched that with will smith anyway Yeah, I'm legend. And it's like, oh, why'd the dog have to die? Yeah, but the dog had
01:23:45
Speaker
There's a reason why the dog had to die. But people get freaked out about that, but not the kids getting hit by an 18-wheeler. I'm like, I get it. I love animals. We have three pets. you know We have three dogs. I love them to death. But why?
01:23:56
Speaker
Why? Why is one more important than the other? i don't know. Right. Yeah. Well, and you know, there's that whole website, Does the Dog Die? Yeah, Does Dog Die? Absolutely. So very... Well, and I mean, i think...
01:24:10
Speaker
it It actually, and I don't want to get too political here, but I think that rooting for the dog is kind of like rooting for the unborn baby in that sense.
01:24:21
Speaker
they're not going to ask you for anything. They're not going to argue with you. They're not going to say, Hey, why don't you respect what I want for a change? You know, these, they're, they're silent, largely theoretical beings that we can put anything on. Yeah. but And admittedly, sometimes the dog dies only to show that the person's an asshole.
01:24:41
Speaker
And that to me is unnecessary, you know? If it drives the plot, great. Same thing with kids. you know Don't kill the kid because you want to say, ooh, let's shock everybody. It's part of the story. That's great. you know um But at the same time, we could talk for probably another hour about spoilers and trigger warnings. But it's the same thing. I look at Does the Dog Die? And I'm like, that that i get that you may want to avoid a particular trigger or a warning or whatever that is important to you or spoiler. But it's like, I don't.
01:25:10
Speaker
If I look at something say oh the dog dies, I can't watch the movie open-minded because I'm waiting for the dog to die. Well, sure. i mean that And that's the thing about spoilers is that if you're talking about trigger warnings or content warnings, I think there should be an industry standard where it's on the back page of the book or a link in a digital book.
01:25:29
Speaker
So that if you want that information, you know that it's there to go get it, but also so that no one else will accidentally see that information. Right. Because spoilers is a legitimate concern.
01:25:42
Speaker
Right. but And that's what I'm saying, especially something like, say, outside of horror, entirely Prince of Tides. you know, the, the spoiler and that is where his trauma came from.
01:25:52
Speaker
But if you put in, it's a legit trigger warning for a lot of people. But if you say that it completely ruins the movie from the beginning, you know? And so you can't do that. So i that's what i'm saying. That's like, I absolutely respect other people's,
01:26:07
Speaker
ah trauma and I don't want to say, Oh, you shouldn't, but I'm probably one who's like, you know, a lot of my stories, I couldn't give a trigger of warning to because it would ruin the story. You know, it's like, Oh, Hey, this one has CSA and it also has violence. And they're like, Oh gee, I wonder what's going to happen. You know?
01:26:21
Speaker
Well, but the alternative is risking somebody, you know, having their PTSD triggered. do You don't want to call someone a ah panic attack because you want them to enjoy the story more.
01:26:33
Speaker
Right. but That's what saying. I respect their trauma. Yeah, but it's it's a tough line. yeah and And the thing is, I'm also willing to accept that I want to respect other people's traumas. But I also get that, if you know, it's like dead orphans.
01:26:46
Speaker
It specifically says, these are some things that you need to watch out for. And because there's a bunch of short stories and and things like that, you can look at that and say, oh, no, one of those stories may be an issue. I'm going to avoid the whole thing.
01:27:01
Speaker
And I'm fine with that. you know? um But it's just one those things like in general, I couldn't do one. If it was just like a whole novel, it'd be hard to say, you know, give it some of those because it's like, you is it a spoiler? Is it not? I don't know.
01:27:14
Speaker
So, but like i said, it's, it's not my trauma. So I'm not one to speak and say you're overreacting or you don't have a right to that trigger warning. Yeah. I mean, it it doesn't seem like there's any harm in making the information available to people that want it without it intruding into the experience of people who don't want it. Yeah. i Like said, only thing that hurts is like, like is said, Prince of Tides. You can't give that trigger warning without completely ruining the story.
01:27:43
Speaker
And, but you know, at the same time, I have a story in Dead Orphans that deals with CSA and retribution from that. And I have had at least two people that have messaged me and said, that helped me with my trauma because I was not able to get retribution with my abuser.
01:28:00
Speaker
And so it was kind of cathartic to them in some ways. And so, you know, I see it both ways. You know, they they really went into it, not really expecting it. And they said it was hard when they read it. But after reading, it was like, oh, man, I wish I could have done that, you know.
01:28:13
Speaker
So it's it's a mixed bag. But I agree. it's it's It's good to say this could be a potential problem because I respect your trauma.
01:28:23
Speaker
Sure, sure.
Humor and Creativity Activity
01:28:24
Speaker
Well, guess what? It's time for the Mad Libs. Oh, boy. Alrighty. All right. So this one actually has two people in room.
01:28:34
Speaker
So the first person in the room will be you. And then I will be the second person in the room. And it actually, what it actually says here is... um it says person in room female. So, uh, yeah, there's, there's just the two of us. So, okay.
01:28:50
Speaker
Yeah. Madlib, man. They, they be binary over there. Goodness. Um, all right. You know what? I need adjectives. Looks like one, two three, four adjectives.
01:29:03
Speaker
Okay. Um, let's go with fiery. um Aromatic, lazy, and green.
01:29:18
Speaker
All right. An exclamation. Crap.
01:29:24
Speaker
And noun? um Actually, any need looks like three, four nouns. Four nouns. Oh, man. um Let's go with poodle. Poodle.
01:29:40
Speaker
House, book, and moon.
01:29:49
Speaker
Okay. I need a part of the body. um Elbow.
01:29:57
Speaker
A plural noun.
01:30:04
Speaker
Okay. I need two plural nouns. Let's go. Restaurants and flowers. Okay.
01:30:13
Speaker
Oops, I lied. One more. um
01:30:20
Speaker
Roads.
01:30:22
Speaker
Okay, I need another part of the body. um Big toe. And a color. um Periwinkle. And verb.
01:30:36
Speaker
and a verb
01:30:40
Speaker
Um, sit, sat, whatever tense you needed in.
01:30:46
Speaker
Okay. And then, um, an adverb? Um, deadly. No, deadly is an adjective. Uh, slowly.
01:30:58
Speaker
And a part of the body, plural. Um, noses.
01:31:06
Speaker
Alright, so this is called Makeover Madness, which I guess is why it's supposed to be. This is a an and fiery scene to be played by Bert and Wetness.
01:31:20
Speaker
and Okay, so I guess you're girl one and I'm girl two. um Girl one, I'm going to give you an aromatic makeover. Girl two, crap, I will look like a new poodle.
01:31:36
Speaker
ah Girl one, yes, from head to elbow. First, we'll brush your big toe to make it sleek and lazy. Girl two, what about my restaurants?
01:31:47
Speaker
My friends say my eyes are my best book. Girl one, they are. I'm applying periwinkle eye house, and it will definitely bring out the color of your flowers.
01:32:00
Speaker
And changing your green clothes will also help. and Girl 2, you don't like the way I sit? Girl 1, you should try and dress more slowly.
01:32:11
Speaker
um my. Those robes you've been wearing were so last year. Trust me when we're finished, you'll be the talk of the moon.
01:32:24
Speaker
Girl 2, I've got my noses crossed. Oh, man, I want to be the talk of the moon. That sounds good. I'll tell you what, I'm not the member that phrase. Yeah. maybe Be the talk of the moon. Right?
01:32:37
Speaker
Okay.
Conclusion and Support Information
01:32:38
Speaker
well some of those Some of those made sense, actually. I know. don't like when they're too perfect. yeah Like, no, the wackiness. I want Sharknado-level wackiness.
01:32:48
Speaker
Yeah. Bert, dude, it was so great having you here. I'm really glad that we got to get together and have this conversation. appreciate having me on. My pleasure. I want to, um again, we'll have links.
01:33:02
Speaker
Well, we'll put your link tree in the description. have a link tree, right? We'll put that in the description so everybody can find all your dish. Yeah. Shotgun.horror. We'll take them there. Shotgun.horror.com. We'll take them there. Right on. Right on. All right.
01:33:14
Speaker
So I want to branding. it totally I just want to remind all our listeners that we are here every week. We have new episodes every Wednesday and that if you want to support us, ah you can find us on coffee.
01:33:28
Speaker
ah We're a KO hyphen F I slash sometimes hilarious horror and supporting the magazine is also supporting the show. So thanks everybody. And we'll see you next week.