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The Pop Culture Audit: Cycle 3, Episode 5 - "The Girl Who Was Contagious"
123 Plays1 year ago
THIS IS A RACIST EPISODE OF TELEVISION.
Okay, now that we've got that out - let's talk. This week we are ADRIFT in casual racism and cultural appropriation. We are OUT TO SEA.
Join the Audit Girls as we do our best to hold Tyra accountable for this absolute hate crime of an episode.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:10
Speaker
Hi, y'all. Welcome to the Pop Culture Audit, where we review reality TV and talk about all things pop culture through a contemporary and critical lens. So what exactly is a pop culture audit? Easy. We take a deep dive of pop culture source material, in this case, the infamous America's Next Top Model cycle four, comb through it, highlighting some cringy and historic moments in pop culture discourse. If you're into that, you found the right place. If you're not, you're still in the right place. You just might learn something. I'm Keila.
00:00:39
Speaker
I'm Jasmine, and if I hop off or drop off at any point, just know that I watched this episode and was equally distraught. If Jasmine gets kicked off, you have to put all of the rest of your notes on Instagram, so you'll have to go to Instagram to see the rest of it. It actually could be so fun, like for real.
00:01:02
Speaker
Yes. That's right. Yeah. Also, this is friends and we're not kicking Jasmine off just to be clear. She's we want her to be here, but her internet might kick her off. Allegedly. Yeah. Yeah. We don't know. We don't know. This is a. It's the top model. It's the top model producers messing with her Wi-Fi. They don't want to see the truth. They don't want to know. They don't want this episode to be released. It will be released.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, the truth is getting out there. Right. Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm going to dive in, y'all. All right. Please. Okay.
Controversies in ANTM Cycle 4
00:01:40
Speaker
America's Next Top Model cycle for episode four, titled The Girl Who Was Contagious, or my subtitle, What in the Actual Black Face?
00:01:50
Speaker
So we're going to recap and I'm going to start with context because I did do the recap a little bit. It felt like I needed to restructure the recap a little bit this week. Didn't feel right. So I'm going to be honest with the audience here. We all, I believe all of us watched this episode multiple times, which is not always the case with these. Usually I just, I just watch it once and we've been processing it and not really talking about it with each other, but like sort of stewing on it for at least the last week.
00:02:17
Speaker
Keila has remembered this episode since we started. And then Jasmine watched it, I think, last Friday and texted as well. And it got me so curious that I ended up watching it last Friday, which usually I watch it the night before we record. And they were both saying, no, you have to, because you need time to process.
00:02:36
Speaker
So I watched it again last night. It was a second. So I watched it last Friday and thought about it a lot. And then last night I was watching it so I could note it. And I thought I would have some clarity of how to approach it in this program. And I do not. A regular format of this happened, and then this happened, and then that happened. Isn't it really appropriate?
00:02:58
Speaker
So I say this to Kealan and Jasmine too. I might miss some details that you'll just have to add context to later if you bring them up on your audit points, because I'm not going to go through. It's still going to be somewhat linear, but I'm going to break it down a little bit differently this time. Okay. So I'm going to break it down into, you know, this is a little, um,
00:03:18
Speaker
a little behind the scenes for people who aren't production people. And in reality TV, there's often like an A storyline, even in scripted TV, there's an A storyline and a B storyline, right? And we're going to talk about the A storyline and the B storyline from the point of view of the producers on this one. So for the creators of the show, America's Next Top Model episode,
00:03:43
Speaker
five here had the a storyline, which we clearly know from the title is Michelle has a weird rash. Okay. So that's like the all consuming thing. She has some like patches of like red, oozy, angry looking skin on her forehead, some on her chin. When I was watching this, I kept thinking, yeah, cause of that fucking bleach you put on her head. But like, I don't think that's actually true.
00:04:10
Speaker
And then of course all of the challenges that they make the girls do are about makeup. And like it's all gross because Michelle is putting like this covergirl makeup over this rash that is really bad, like really angry rash. Yeah. And they're like planting these seeds of like makeup can transform a person that'll be relevant later.
00:04:32
Speaker
In all of these challenges, it's important to know it is all shitty CoverGirl makeup from like 2004. Like it never looks good. It's so bad. It's going to come through big makeup. Is, I don't know, is CoverGirl even big makeup anymore? Or if I just aged out, like get out? No, I don't think it is. I think it's like, because there's so many makeup brands now, I feel like CoverGirl is at the bottom of the barrel.
00:04:57
Speaker
It's all like made of wax like it's so hard like it looks anyway It's so irrelevant to what happens But it really bothered if I was focused on storyline a this would have consumed me all this covergirl makeup It's super shitty Michelle's skin gets worse because she's putting all this fucking covergirl makeup on it and the girls are very immature and they're like really mean and gross about it But I'll be honest it her skin is really gross
00:05:24
Speaker
Eventually, Michelle goes to a doctor. It's a bacterial thing. It'll go away instantly if she uses an antibiotic cream. Done. That's storyline A. I will say in between these storylines, before I get to storyline B, in between these storylines, it's relevant to note that Tyra sits down one-on-one and makes every girl cry for a different reason. So some time filler they came up with was you're going to spend time on the couch with Tyra.
00:05:51
Speaker
and she is doing everything with her body and her face and her voice to make you think that she is giving like really wise sage advice and it is absolute platitude garbage about very serious things. She is giving advice about homelessness, racism,
00:06:10
Speaker
issues with child, child birth, read her ice creamed. She hears a phrase that's never says very much. She says models are popping up babies just like how rabbits are popping them out. And you can bring them to work. She said that about human children, baby.
00:06:28
Speaker
And she tells Tiffany that it's okay not to know how to pronounce foie gras because you can always ask them like basically just absolute poverty black girl shaming her. Okay, so we'll I'm sure we'll unpack this later. Oh, yes, we will. Absolutely. Okay, good. Because this is happening.
00:06:47
Speaker
And then again, I'm skipping all of these like cutesy little interstitials and all the tyra males and stuff so we can just like get the fuck to it. The B storyline, the throwaway plot, the secondary storyline here is that they're going to shoot a campaign for Got Milk campaign. And if you all remember that, it's like very iconic early aughts throwback. The supermodels and celebrities would all pose with like that cute little milk mustache.
00:07:13
Speaker
I think they did like commercials and billboards, but I remember at most like being in magazines, because this was like magazine era. Yeah, schools remember big dairy was it was a big Yeah, it was a big deal. She was a girl. It was the campaign interesting how we are so not about milk now.
00:07:32
Speaker
I know. Everyone's lactose intolerant. I gotta be honest, I still love milk, but... Oh my God. That is one of the scariest things. Yeah, that is very... Okay, I'm happy. I didn't know that. There are so many things to say about milk.
00:07:49
Speaker
Okay. That is so scary. Your body, the inflammation, I could go on and on. No, it must be your ancestors. Yeah, I just- It is. It is her ancestors. I'm never meant to drink milk, but whoever your ancestors were strong and they did- They have an iron stomach. Yeah. The way I would- Humans are not meant to drink milk. We're not supposed to drink cow's milk. Let's talk about it later. They don't want us to do that. Let's listen. You guys are really-
00:08:27
Speaker
We're doing this photo shoot for the Got Milk campaign, but they have a little twist on this version, which is everybody wears blackface.
00:08:37
Speaker
Here we go. Let's pause for a second. And I'm saying that not facetiously. I'm saying that quite literally. We'll get into the details about it. But I do want to take a little detour here because as we're preparing for this episode, I think, what are we going to say about this? I'm making this assumption that we all know in the year 2023 why it would be shocking for everyone to wear blackface.
00:09:00
Speaker
And maybe not, maybe we don't know. So just quickly, readers, because we're going to do a little history lesson. We're going to start in the early 19th century, which is where blackface and minstrel shows came to be. They emerged in the early 19th century, where white performers would use burnt cork to darken their skin, and then they would imitate and caricature black people. So this was a whole form of entertainment in theaters and circuses.
00:09:25
Speaker
And it was like doing songs, dances, comedic sketches, and making these offensive stereotypes around black people that often portrayed them as like lazy, unintelligent, superstitious.
Understanding Blackface and Cultural Appropriation
00:09:38
Speaker
ended up popularizing these characters that were characterizing enslaved people, this idea of the mammy figure and these different really, really problematic and pervasive characters that were really centered on Black Americans. That was a very good summary.
00:10:01
Speaker
Oh, I'm not done. I went deep on this research. Well, just to say that it didn't just stop, right? It wasn't like everyone collectively woke up and was like, Oh, we shouldn't do this anymore. It was really still going even in the early 20th century and started to become less and less popular, like as the civil rights movement was coming up. And we see even like drives and drives of it now when there's some
00:10:26
Speaker
you know, person who's lived on a rock somewhere that thinks they can still dress up as like Bob Marley for Halloween, and that's fine. But all of that connects back to a really deep and painful history that is about more than just the actual face paint, though the face paint represents just sort of the overall like, humiliation and degradation of black folks during that time. So it's not okay. And I'll say this, I have a white daughter, I am a white woman, like I won't
00:10:57
Speaker
My child isn't allowed to paint their face with anything that is darker than their actual skin tone, no matter what the color is, right? Because I think it is such a cancerous issue that there's just no need to even tell the, I'll see people on Instagram, friends of mine who have a face mask on, right? Like a spa mask. And if it's, I'm like, oh no, you gotta take that picture down. You gotta take it down. You can't have that picture up.
00:11:25
Speaker
And to take it a step further too, just even with the spray tans, they've just gotten so far out of control that, ooh. From head to toe. With the dark foundation, absolutely. Yes, yes. The Kardashian's and how they darken their skin. Oh my god, please. Yeah, yeah. It is all, anything that is actively darkening your skin, any shade is related to this and I think carries the same offense.
00:11:55
Speaker
I also want to sidebar because what we're about to talk about is not only blackface, but also some playful cultural appropriation and not specific to black folks. So this cultural appropriation being that adoption, use of, imitations, basically taking someone's culture.
00:12:14
Speaker
sometimes incorporating it into your own aesthetic or look or lifestyle. We often see it when it comes to dressing up for Halloween or in different costumes or in this case for this photo shoot that folks will take articles of clothing
00:12:32
Speaker
any sort of like symbols, practices, music, art, ritual, and use it for costume or use it for aesthetic and not have any of the cultural significance, not be invited by that cultural group to be participating. And this isn't just, there's a lot of discourse around this, like, why can't we share things? And isn't it that aren't people culturally appropriating white people when they go to Whole Foods?
00:12:57
Speaker
What? Oh, that's not true. I just made that up. Wait a minute. Dialogue. Well, people try to equate cultural appropriation as being a two-way street, right? And it is not. No, it's not. The biggest essence of it is this power imbalance, right? It's a member of a dominant culture, borrowing
00:13:15
Speaker
or taking from a marginalized or oppressed culture, which is exacerbating that power imbalance and also reinforcing really harmful stereotypes. Sometimes folks are making money on it. There's a lot of things to unpack within that. So we can get into that on social media, too. But I did want to add the context of both the history of Blackface and cultural appropriation as we get into what the hell they're about to do on America's Next Top Model. Thank you for that. That's really important.
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think it would be even worth posting some references somewhere for people to read more about it because it is on so many levels now. Maybe there aren't any menstrual shows happening at the moment, but I've even had conversations about digital blackface and like, what does that mean? To use memes and emojis that are
00:14:12
Speaker
specifically designed for people that are not in your culture and how that makes people feel. It goes pretty deep. I agree. I agree. I also think it's interesting in terms of
00:14:27
Speaker
fashion and visual beauty at this time that the resolution obviously is to just hire an Asian woman and the show does not have any Asian or Southeast Asian women on the cast and so they decide to have this fun challenge where they pretend to be
00:14:46
Speaker
Southeast Asian. That's not the solution. The solution is to hire someone. There won't need to be a costume if you're hiring a person whose identity is part of that. The other thing I want to say is imagine being a cow. Imagine being a cow and watching the show. Drink milk. Why do you have to be ... The cow would be so confused. Why are you changing visible indicator and holding a baby to articulate milk?
00:15:13
Speaker
There was no reason for that. There was no reason for that. Oh my goodness. There was no reason for that. Oh my goodness. Got Milk is clean. Nice. We get the CoverGirl brand integration. We get the Got Milk integration like we're following you. When all of a sudden they throw in, and I'm telling you this is, they throw this in as an absolute aside by the way. Yes.
00:15:35
Speaker
Everyone is going to be cast as a different ethnicity. Uh-huh. And I'm gonna tell you, no one has anything bad to say about this idea. Period. I will say Naima. Naima was good. We're gonna get there. I was about to say, okay.
00:15:50
Speaker
I'm saying when they put the idea out there, no one is like, wait, stop. No, this is not good. And we have to assume that this is maybe the 30th time this idea has been shared because this is television. And so no one has anything bad. They are excited. They think this is a fine idea. The challenge here. Sorry to interrupt, but I just thought about how
00:16:12
Speaker
This was also showing up a lot during this whole period. Like I'm thinking about the Housewives when they did a photo shoot for the Housewives of Atlanta. Oh my God. And Mimi wanted Kim to be a black girl. And Kim pushed back on that, like to the point of arguing with Mimi behind it. And thank God she did because
00:16:39
Speaker
That wouldn't have aged well for her. But, yeah, this was going on. It was like very much in the large and I'm not equating this to being the same thing, but like this white chicks and what's the one where the white man becomes like this was peak humor, shallow hell. Yes. Yeah. Where I do want to say this later, but prosthetics are not makeup in this episode. Got those things confused at the beginning was prosthetic greed.
00:17:08
Speaker
The one semblance of maybe Pete like I stopped gritting my teeth because they didn't put prosthetics on the women. Oh, yet the episode starts with Mr. J having prosthetics on and calling it makeup. I'm like, that's that's a different journey. But, OK, sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. OK, sorry, Ben. Continue. No, it's OK. It's all it's all true. It's all real.
00:17:36
Speaker
So Mr. J is saying the challenge here is really taking on the persona of that other ethnicity and really owning it. So that's going to give you a doorway into how much we're about to hang our hat on every possible stereotype, okay? Because they want these girls to take on the persona of an ethnicity, which is not possible. But here we go.
Critique of ANTM's Production Choices
00:18:00
Speaker
I'm going to give you all the breakdown.
00:18:03
Speaker
And I do feel like many of these terms are not widely preferred at best and probably offensive at worst, but just a heads up. I'm gonna share the ethnicity breakdown as it was shared to us. Christina, a white girl, is going to be an East Indian. Tiffany, a black girl, is going to be a Native American. Brittany, a white girl, is going to be an African American woman. Why did they add woman?
00:18:30
Speaker
Kenya, black girl, will be Korean. Kalen, white girl, will be featured as a Hawaiian. Michelle, white girl with face rash, will be an Eskimo woman. I'm just trying to give context, y'all. It's the best I can do. Naeema, light-skinned brown girl, will be Icelandic, Scandinavian. Tatiana, the white girl who is mean, will be a biracial woman.
00:18:59
Speaker
UV, light-skinned Mexican, will be a Swedish milkmaid. Becca, white girl who passes out, will be a really dark tan Italian Sicilian woman. And Noel, a white-looking girl who ends up saying she is half black, which is new information, will be a traditional African woman with a head wrap and everything. That's a quote. Oh my gosh, I have so many thoughts. Okay.
00:19:26
Speaker
So let's let this sink in for a second. The number of stereotypes and problematic aggressions and any number of offensive things that I just said, and we haven't even on screen seen the actual blackface yet. So this is where we are right now. You're trying to process that list that Jay just went through in 15 seconds, and you're like, wait, did you just say with a head wrap and everything? This is where I pause. Would you say Eskimo?
00:19:52
Speaker
Again, as we're seeing it, as it was edited, no one thinks this is weird. They're all like excited or pretending to be like, come on, a milkmaid. Some did look a little gooped. They were like.
00:20:04
Speaker
still processing. They went along with it, but they looked shocked. They sure did. They seemed more shocked about other things so far. There was one question back about other things. Okay, so I want to take a pause too and go back. I want to go back behind the curtain, a little bit of the production team. How did they pick these categories? How do they decide how to refer to people's... Well, even like, how did you say, here's the words we're going to use.
00:20:33
Speaker
for someone's whole ass culture. The way it's presented, a production assistant came up with this and they were all like, yeah, this looks good. Because who says an Eskimo woman or a Swedish milkmaid unless they are a slightly racist three-year-old? Those are just like, what? An Eskimo woman? Only a child would come up with that who has no cultural bearings.
00:21:00
Speaker
what an Icelandic, like these are just not even actual cultural terms. It's not even an ethnicity. A Swedish milkmaid is just a sex symbol. Like what the hell are you talking about? Yeah. So I have a theory that the photographer and the makeup artist are in on this because one of the makeup artists was then the photographer. And then since we're doing this rewatch, I'm realizing that some of the most fucked up things are coming from the makeup artist.
00:21:28
Speaker
Later on, they say, like, yes, she could have leprosy or last week when they're like, well, maybe she's just prettier than you. Like, yes, absolutely. So I feel like what happened is they just, who has an idea? Swedish milkmaid. And she was like, yes, who else? And everyone just came into it. It's like so confusing. Some of this is like race and then other pieces are ethnicity. It doesn't make any sense.
00:21:52
Speaker
It was also execution was kind of messy. It was very chaotic. And then I was trying to think about how did they decide who would be who and why? Great question. Like, why? So I watched it a couple of times and I was like, so Kenya's eyes are slightly slanted. So is that why she's portraying a Korean woman? I promise that there was whole ass conversations about this.
00:22:17
Speaker
And they probably thought more about that. They probably thought more about the matching of the race swap more than anything. More than the costuming. That's what I was thinking too. The costuming for this shoot was everyone was just drowned in fabric. Like it all would be neighbors. Oh, the wigs.
00:22:37
Speaker
criminal wigs. We're not even there. Children. Okay, sorry. We're not there. We're not to the children. Here's a question I had at this point was we talked about why did they pick these ethnicities? Why no Arab women? So here's my theory on this. This is the height in 2000, whatever of operation enduring Islamophobia
00:22:56
Speaker
And I have to believe that if they were going through this list, this horrible idea path, that someone would have thought of a woman in a hijab before they would think of a really dark tan Italian Sicilian woman, which leads me to believe that someone did think of that.
00:23:11
Speaker
And then they were like, oh, God, no, we could never do that. Can you imagine? Can someone hand me more shoe polish for her face, please? Like, yeah, that someone really shot down the idea of a Muslim woman as they were putting blackface on other people. That's like sure culture and climate of our time.
00:23:29
Speaker
Islamophobia. We're talking homeland, all of it. The conversation about Russia and China during this time. Yeah. This was deliberate chaos. Like it's still racist and all of the phobias. And I thought to like, like, okay, so we're obviously very offended by what we're saying, but what was, what was the actual conversations like at this table, you know, when they're coming up with everything? Could you only imagine like,
00:23:57
Speaker
all the offense, all the offense that was, it was just like, I don't know, watching it a couple of times. We got the best version of it. We got the best version, yes. Right. No, and I don't, they do not, I cannot stress this enough, readers. The folks who are producing the show, hosting the show are not, there is not a thought in their head that this is not okay. Well, one of the Miss Kenya Burris, I cannot let this go. One of them is Kenya Burris.
00:24:26
Speaker
One of them is Kenya Burris. What are you talking about? Kenya Burris is a producer on this show, y'all. What are you talking about? Yes, Chile. What are you talking about? We need to bring it to the forefront.
00:24:40
Speaker
Yes. We need a red table talk immediately. Oh my God. Okay. Let me get through this. Let me get through it. Okay. Yeah. All right. So now we're here. We're at the moment. Now they're actually putting the makeup on them. Okay. My jaw is on the floor. I don't know how you all watch this. It's
00:24:57
Speaker
Wild like again, you all are hearing us react really big I tell you when you see someone use a sponge to put brown makeup on someone's face You should have a physical reaction. There are several white women that are just standing around in full on blackface I cannot stress this enough. They're eating snacks. They're smoking cigarettes they're just fucking hanging out and the color of their face is
00:25:23
Speaker
stops at their chin and then their neck is white. It is wild. Do they even do the hands for some of them? I was like, I don't think y'all did the hands. I think you just know they did it. They add another twist though. This is what y'all are referencing earlier. They now have to pose in these racist costumes while holding three year olds. It is important to know that the children they get for the shoot all appear to match the actual ethnicity
00:25:49
Speaker
So no children were put in blackface that we can tell for this shoot. Thank God. But it's like three kids. They just had to witness it. It was three children and they made those three stretch across every ethnicity. I was like, what? They take all these photos. We'll talk about it later because I've got something about this. They take all these photos. I have like literally, I have nothing to say, but I'm going to keep talking.
00:26:13
Speaker
I have to underline this part too and I'm sure y'all get to it. No one is fooling anyone with this makeup.
00:26:21
Speaker
These look like white women in blackface. They look like nothing else but white women in blackface. One of them says, oh my God, I'm a black girl with a nose job. And the makeup artist, problematic, says, you're a Jackson. And then they put an afro on her. So I said, have a side comment that we have to ruin all of these people. We have to ruin them. I want cover girl to answer the phone right now. This is part of my audit.
00:26:45
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Okay. At least Naima for one moment seems to hint that it is mind blowing to be made up as a white woman, but they sort of edit it to me. So it seems like she's really put out by this and they edit it to make it seem like she thinks it's almost a good thing, but she does not. She does not think it's a good thing. No.
00:27:04
Speaker
But they totally edit it to be like, wow, I'm not used to being a white woman. It's kind of wild. And you can tell she's really like, this is not the trepidation there. Super deeply uncomfortable with it.
00:27:19
Speaker
Okay. They end this horror show. They go to judging. The judges are very proud of how fun this twist is. No one fucking cares. Also, might I add for no reason, unprompted because she does all of the photo shoots and she's the first photo before we see the girls. That's true. That is so true. Double prime. Here's some of the city judge comments. Immediately Tyra calls a white girl in blackface. Sister, you look like a black girl. You look like my mom.
00:27:52
Speaker
This capitalized, highlighted, italicized in my notes. Okay. We'll come back to it. Who knows where you're from? Who knows where you're from? We really can't switch your ethnicity. So this was Naima getting in trouble for being ambiguous. Koreatown, here we come, girl. I don't see a black girl. I see an Asian woman.
00:28:15
Speaker
You can't wear flip flops. You're too short. That was just mean. I don't see a model. I don't see edge. I don't see anything. I think your face is dead. I think you look possessed. You look like a madam in a brothel. It's coming across very unattractive. If you think about Eskimos and the intensity that culture had, I want to like feel the cold.
00:28:36
Speaker
I wish you were crying in the picture because you look gorgeous right now. Yes. They were extra mean. Oh my gosh, they were so mean. I didn't have the words to express how I feel about this, but this is malicious. And I know this was a mean time in pop culture. Everyone was being a bitch for fun. But this week felt extra mean. I guess the evilness has really sat on my spirit.
00:29:02
Speaker
It's starting to kick in. This is where we are. They're tired and mean. Okay. This is my last line because I'm not doing the whole buildup to whatever. Noelle goes home. That's it. They send Noelle home. It's mean. It makes no sense. It doesn't matter. It did not make any sense and it was mean. It doesn't matter. Noelle's gone. Okay. Who's going first? Hila, please.
00:29:25
Speaker
Okay. It's, it's a short audit and I'm sure we overlap the fur. Okay. I think I have three things. The first is the makeup. So as you all know, I love to talk and I love seeing black women put on makeup.
00:29:38
Speaker
At this point in history, throughout history, let's just say this, throughout history, up until the 1970s, there was not appropriate shade makeup for black women. And you can tell as you watch film. And it slowly, slowly started getting shade matches. I would say even to the point now, I'm seeing followers talk up, people who I follow talk about how these popular makeup brands do not have a full shade range.
00:30:02
Speaker
So I know they didn't have the proper makeup, but these women who were moonlighting as women of color look like the dead. Have you ever seen a black woman before? This skin is like... It looks so bad. Every single woman of color looked like the same woman. Like, what?
00:30:26
Speaker
My second, no depth, no depth, no contour. They just dip them, dip the head. No, the face and paint and then moved on. The second rate. Have you ever met a three year old? I don't want to speak for them because I was a former three year old. I can't. I know they did an editing job or they gave the kids Dymatap or something because a three old is not going to participate in a photo shoot. All that Dymatap. That is such a throwback.
00:30:57
Speaker
three-year-old multiple shoots, pretending to be multiple races. And what gets me about a three-year-old is first, a three-year-old is a chaotic stage of being. They talk a lot. They have a lot of demands. They're learning how to cognitively be here with us. But when Rebecca says that child was healthy, it was very, very heavy, I don't disagree with her. And I'm someone who has no children. I just carry a phone, and that's heavy enough.
00:31:25
Speaker
ragging a three-year-old for weighing what a three-year-old weighs. It's your fault that you can't hold the three-year-old. None of this makes any sense. And as I don't know as a parent if I would feel comfortable having women who could give less than a shit about my child wearing not even appropriate makeup, Crayola playtime washable face paint.
00:31:46
Speaker
holding a baby, creating other other cultures and holding talking shit about my child. And some of these people are holding the baby like a sack of potatoes. Yes. Tiffany and Noel are holding the baby because they know how to hold one. But y'all are like whining and complaining about this child. There was just no humanity. And that was I wrote that down, too. I just thought that they were so rude to the children and
00:32:13
Speaker
The little girl was like, I'm slipping, I'm slipping. And I'm like, somebody get the kid. Somebody help her. But you're trying to punish these girls with this photo shoot, but the children are uncomfortable and they're not props. They're kids. They're not props.
00:32:27
Speaker
They're three years old. They're three. It just didn't make, I know we talked about the mess of it all. If it felt like Tyra male, and then it was like, and then you have to be Korean. And then you have to wear this. And then you have to wear this bar. And now you have to hold a three year old. Like it just. And none of it made sense at all. There was no reason for the children to be involved. It was problematic enough. Thank you. You said it eloquently. That's all I need to know. No kids. My final read is about Tyra.
00:32:54
Speaker
Now, I remember now why I struggle with Tyra. So, somewhere along the lines of this timeline, she's going to get a talk show, which is deeply, deeply chaotic. She's going to carry on the foolishness. Yeah. Foolishness. And I, reader, we will come back to that. But the way she had... There were two things that she did that really
00:33:17
Speaker
It just proved absolute chaos. The first was these one-on-one conversations. Oh my gosh. That's my other point. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay. Have you ever had an experience where you didn't do well on a test or an assignment in school and the teacher calls you over and you have a one-on-one conversation and you want to cry because you know it's like you and you have a legitimate reason why you're not doing well, you were saying.
00:33:41
Speaker
But you're trying so hard not to cry. And it's not necessarily the teacher.
Tyra Banks' Role and Criticism
00:33:47
Speaker
It's the fact that this is really uncomfortable and you're wanting me to share like a personal reason and we just don't have that relationship. That's what that sounded like. And telling people who are single mothers or low income to just work hard and pop out babies like rabbits and just overcome your development.
00:34:05
Speaker
when the real issue is, I need money. I hate when the issue is, I need money, and you're telling me, be strong. So yes, yes to everything you just said. Those 101s, I wrote here that it was just to humanize Tyra. Absolutely. Because she's showing up being a bitch every week.
00:34:32
Speaker
And so at some point you have to make the villain look softer. And so she's talking like this.
00:34:39
Speaker
And she's saying, you can touch me. You can feel me. I'm a human. But all of those things were just to frickin humanize her. But she was shady. She was shady. And she wasn't real. She like could not connect with them. And she picked the weirdest wig to do this like Oprah segment. And we talked and we agreed that the wig did not give connectivity.
00:35:02
Speaker
none of the wigs slash weaves look, I mean, they all look so bad. I have to find pictures of myself because I don't, God, I hope I wasn't participating in all of this. When she tells UV and I'm so, I just can't wait for UV to go home because I am so upset with how they're treating her. I want people to go home so they can stop experiencing abuse at this point.
00:35:27
Speaker
like, your face is just so heavy. So like you have to really focus on channeling strength or whatever, because otherwise it'll look like this like dead. You're calling me every single week they're calling her ugly.
00:35:43
Speaker
in new ways, new ways every week. They hate her. And it's just like, I don't, maybe it's, I'm soft, but I can't, I don't want to talk to you. If I come to a judging every week, you're too short to wear flip flops. Why the fuck did you change your hair? You look like a blow up doll.
00:36:02
Speaker
I don't want to talk to you. You're a prostitute. Triple X, $34.99. Enough. Enough. I don't want to talk to you. And we have nothing in common. Like, girl, I told you I'm struggling to make rent with my grandma and you say, full gua. That's not who we are. Let's talk about that. The way that Tiffany is being treated. So circle back to the makeup. Ridiculous. And we can talk about that.
00:36:32
Speaker
being told that she looks like a pig on crack, like every single week, the references of ghetto when it comes to her, these one-on-ones, not only was it used to humanize Tyra, but it was to weaponize every single thing these girls were telling her. It was not a coincidence that
00:36:54
Speaker
Oh, I miss my baby. And so now, surprise, there's a three-year-old in your photo shoot. Like, I just feel like, oh, my face is falling off. Surprise, we're gonna have not one, but two makeup challenges. It just, everything that was being said. And they were sharing brushes.
00:37:08
Speaker
Y'all are, you're sick. You're sick. Can I say one last audit point? Because I think you are going to run with this where we are. What is this? Deep. I think what I, how do I say this eloquently? I really struggle with people who can't relate to like a working woman, not rich 1% experience.
00:37:32
Speaker
And I think that's what's giving me the strongest ick this week is that Tyra wants to be liked by the girls so badly. No, she wants to be adored. She wants to be held in adoration by them. But then she also says the shittiest things and is super dismissive of them. And I think that came to a head for me particularly knowing that she does the photo shoot themes every week with the girls.
00:37:55
Speaker
No one asked for that. Like I love that you love to be a model and this is your career, but like you're doubling down on confirming that this is a good idea by doing the photo shoot. And then when Brittany
00:38:06
Speaker
says that she's a black girl with a nose job and everyone on set. And Tyra says two of the most chaotic comments of like, you look like a black girl. She doesn't. There was there's never a place on earth. Nothing about Brittany that looks like a black girl. Nothing insinuating the comment about the nose job tells me that she knows stereotypes about blackness and what black women look like. And then for Tyra to say, you look like a picture of me and my mother. You don't.
00:38:34
Speaker
You don't. Like, not even a little bit. Not even close love. You're not close. It's just so chaotic and hurtful and inauthentic. And then to drag, all of these women are very beautiful, but to drag Tiffany and Yuvi and these other women of color every week. No, well,
00:38:59
Speaker
so hard for what? For what? She's a beautiful girl. For what? Is, I don't know what to do with that. It's just like, it's beyond, it's not evil. It's just like, it's malicious. Yeah, that is definitely, no, I agree with everything you're saying. I also have here, how can you listen to all of their struggles and still judge them so harshly and send them back to those situations? There is absolutely
00:39:28
Speaker
I feel like there should be some type of compensation for just enduring the foolishness, knowing I'm going back to poverty. Or if they didn't pay them very much for being on the show, I think. Yeah, I'll have to double check. I don't feel like they did. It was very little because we haven't gotten to that point where you get
00:39:50
Speaker
You don't get paid, it varies. It varies how much you get paid for being on TV, but this was not, the juice was not worth the squeeze for this. That's what a lot of women said about their experience. Right. I mean, we can see that very clearly. My other audit point, I mean, I guess it's just, it's all together in this week. I mean, it's just so hard to distinguish like which one is what, whatever at this point, but like Tyra being a black woman and the way
00:40:18
Speaker
I've realized based on like every single week, I'm bringing this up. This is really hard for me to wrap my mind around a black woman, like, okay, the things that are being said to these women of color. And the way that she- You said that perfectly. That's exactly how I feel. I can't get the- Yeah, it's really hard to see her in particular do it. And then I started to think about
00:40:41
Speaker
women like that, right? It's just hard for me to just, I don't even know how to eloquently just really put it together, but it's just really hard for me to watch her every single week be harder on the women of color and
00:40:56
Speaker
tell Brittany who I'm suspecting is probably the most problematic in the group. Now that I'm like kind of watching her behavior, that she looks, reminds me of my mom and I'm like, no, she doesn't. Brittany was mean to the kids. She was mean to the girl with her face. She was also, she was also saying, Oh my God, Noelle, we get it. You have a kid next. Like she's a problem. And she was the, she's talking about the nose job. And I don't know. I just, I,
00:41:25
Speaker
Tyra is a problem and I don't even know how to dig deeper than just that. She really annoys me and I don't like black women like her and it's hard to see her every week.
Michelle's Skin Condition on ANTM
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah. Can I say something about a problem that I didn't bring up before?
00:41:43
Speaker
Michelle, I have no notes on Michelle. If someone broiled the shit out of my hair with bleach, I don't, I don't think it, I have no feedback for her. But the fact that they could bring her to a dermatologist, but they waited so long. And if you watch the edit, UV is in the edit, but she won the challenge. So it just tells me that y'all waited and also a dermatologist is a specialist, might I add. And knowing we live in America, the hellscape of health care has the
00:42:10
Speaker
hour to get her into a dermatologist at the UCLA Medical Center and you waited. I think you had a challenge. Any regular physician could diagnose what was happening with her. That was not a specialized issue. But why did you wait? No, she could have been in urgent care in four minutes. Why did you do a challenge where they shared brushes
00:42:31
Speaker
And I, I think back then I felt like, Oh, Michelle's crying a lot. But when you have a blemish and something on your face, it really does emotionally rock you shattered. Like she's hungry. And she just everything. You have to always remember how hungry they are. And she just came out on TV in 2005 and like,
00:42:58
Speaker
Yeah, and her I'm telling you her face was bad. Yeah, they were mean to her. It was an open sore. Things they said because I did write them down. Here's what that some of the here's some of the comments about Michelle's face.
00:43:17
Speaker
one of them said maybe she hurts herself so like saying that she was doing it very disappointed in the person who said that she worships the devil also rude is it stress michelle has scabies but she can still be beautiful she has splashes of her face just peeling off.
00:43:38
Speaker
It could be leprosy. That one I double clicked. That was the makeup artist. Are you for real? The other makeup person says, they say, is there anyone on set who knows voodoo or has any chicken bones laying around?
00:43:51
Speaker
caught that too. If we could just make... So they said that this was a person of color who says that while they're putting this woman in Eskimo face. So like, the fuck are we supposed to do with that? What sense does that even make to be putting makeup on someone who has a skin condition? And then sharing brushes. It's an open sore. It's an open wound, y'all. The fact that she was like, no, you cannot put that stuff on...
00:44:16
Speaker
Also, they're using shoe polish. They're not even using fucking makeup. I know. I know. Michelle's face was, again, that was their main storyline, was Michelle's face. It was very obvious that they decided to kill time and fill time by having the girls run around and act like they were far more panics about it than they were. That's what they were trying to hype up, is everyone pretend to be
00:44:40
Speaker
afraid of Michelle's face. I think a lot of them genuinely wanted to bully her though. I think they are bored and they want to just feed the camera so they can sleep in. And so they played into it, but it was evil. It wasn't right. Can I pivot that into one of my audible moments that this minor kind of minor and not related to the- I'm sorry y'all, I stirred us all off. Yes, but please.
00:45:07
Speaker
when white girls are so casually mean about black girls. When Tatiana says, I'm not sad, Brandi's gone, it's just this little moment in the show. And I'm like, you bitch. You are so confident.
00:45:30
Speaker
You're just so easy for you to be cruel about her. Look, the one thing I can be an expert on is white women. I will claim it. And white women will not act this way towards other white women. Period. They don't do it. And for her, it just comes so easily to be mean to her for no reason.
00:45:57
Speaker
Anyway, it's come up before. And like that part when she just had that little throw away of like, well, I'm not sad that she's gone. She also says she's like naked in bed while she says it. That was curious. Why are you naked? Why are you topless? I mean, it's fine, I guess. But like, that's kind of a weird choice when you're living in a studio. A lot of shit now. Right. That she's gone. But like earlier, you were under a bed and everything you had to say was right. You can talk a big game. It's just.
00:46:27
Speaker
It's just deeply disappointing. Yeah. One other note, guys, this is related to maybe nothing because it kind of falls into makeup. Can you all just fuck all the way off with this? Like, we want it to look like you're not wearing any makeup, but definitely put makeup on. Yeah, but no makeup makeup. Yeah.
00:46:47
Speaker
All the way out of here, capitalism. I see you. You want a no makeup look, don't wear any fucking makeup. But don't tell me to put on a bunch of makeup and make it look like I'm not wearing makeup. Get out of here. Get a job. Go somewhere else. Get a job. I read a book. There I say read a book. Yes, yes. Read a book. Read a book.
00:47:07
Speaker
do something besides for tormenting me into buying makeup so that it looks like I'm not wearing makeup. Absolutely not. Right. Go to jail. One of the greatest mysteries of the world is this alleged makeup, no makeup look. What are y'all talking about? What are you talking about? We even talk about it now. It's always men who decide whether it looks like you're wearing makeup or not. It is always men. And I will tell you as a resident
00:47:37
Speaker
In another life, I'm sure I was a makeup artist because that's just what I love. I'm the queen of a no makeup makeup look. We found it people. She is the resolution. She found the code. I believe so easily. It's just the easiest thing to pull off.
00:47:58
Speaker
Why do we want it? Why do we need it? Why do we call it that? Get the fuck out of here. Do you teach? Do you teach? Yeah. I don't know. Just wear makeup. Just wear makeup. I'm not wearing a lot of makeup.
00:48:11
Speaker
That is annoying. The backbends have to go through. The backbends. So much. I know. Somehow. It's always men who get to choose. Yeah. We want to be like a fresh face. Get the fuck out of here. I like a million dollars by a bacteria. Like, that's right. You're giving me like silicone powder from Walgreens that you want me to put on top of it and give you a no makeup makeup look. And she's giving flesh. And that's literally the best makeup she can give.
00:48:41
Speaker
I also have another super random point that goes back to that one-on-one. Whenever Tyra tells Tiffany, oh, yeah, when you're sitting at the table and they're ordering things like salmon with fresh creme, like, yeah, that's so... Yeah, I get it. That's so hard. What are you talking about? What are you talking about?
00:49:10
Speaker
So she doesn't know what salmon is. So they're feeding models. They're feeding models. Now all of the messaging is so confusing. What is Tyra talking about? What is she talking about? She weighs them the first day they come into the farm, the draft house. And then now she's like, you're never going to know what fog lies. So now they're feeding the models. You can eat as a model. You're going to know what salmon is.
00:49:32
Speaker
It was so dis... I had to laugh because it's so condescending. It's so unnecessary. That 101 triggered me more the second go round than it did the first because now that I'm thinking about it, everyone that sat down, she acted as if she related to everything that everyone was going through. Homelessness. Homelessness. You don't have children. You don't have children.
00:50:00
Speaker
Yeah. That was when the second time around was really triggering. It was brutal. Yeah, it was brutal. It was brutal.
Discussion on Jada Pinkett Smith's Book
00:50:13
Speaker
Can we segue into some pop culture news real quick? Please. I just want to talk about Will and Jada on the mic. We've been. Yeah.
00:50:25
Speaker
We've been talking about, we've been talking about them via text, but I just, on the mic, it's worthy to just say, number one, are you buying the book? All right, wait, somebody has to set the scene. What if the readers aren't following? Jada Pinkett Smith is going on a press tour to promote her latest book called Worthy.
00:50:49
Speaker
And in the book, it is revealing a lot about her relationship with Tupac and Will Smith and her mental health journey. But we quickly find out that she and Will have been separated since, what was it, 2017 or 2016? And that in fact, when she was at the Oscars with him and he walked up on the stage and slapped
00:51:19
Speaker
Chris Rock and said, don't talk about my wife. She was shocked that he even said the word wife because she hadn't heard him mention her in that way in seven years. Tupac proposed to her when he was in Rikers, but she was just like, no, he probably would have divorced me when he got out. So I said, no. She just goes on and on and on, but I think what is
00:51:46
Speaker
Going on online, the conversations is how embarrassing it must feel for Will. So I hear a lot of people saying, oh my gosh, she's embarrassing Will. And then other people saying she's just telling her truth. Why can't she just speak her truth? What do we say? I want to hear from you. And are you going to buy her book? OK, you start us off. I say they're both embarrassing.
00:52:18
Speaker
I also might buy the book because I have an extra credit, an audible credit that I might use on it. And I also think she is one of the most inauthentic people ever under the guise of being authentic. Are you serious? I also have another person, she's a Virgo and I feel like they tend to be really inauthentic people.
00:52:46
Speaker
Oh, okay. This is greater. This is groundbreaking. Oh, I'm another person that I feel is deeply unrelatable, but I don't want to get canceled. So I'll leave it in the chat for us so that we can know. Yeah. Let me tell you, I would slip. But I won't say it. I don't know.
00:53:12
Speaker
Raiders. Unrelatable. I won't be discussed. You know what? Yeah. I'm going to transition us. I okay. So I.
00:53:24
Speaker
I don't know. Here's what I think. I think that I've told Brenda this. I don't want to hear anymore about other people's marriages. And I am a deeply nosy person. I've actually heard too much about marriages this year. I want to hear about people in love. I don't want to hear about PR relationships, and I don't want to hear anything else.
00:53:43
Speaker
Will Smith. I do not. Sorry, friends. This is I don't enjoy him and I was not going to read his book. I don't want to hear any more from him. I feel like there's always something I'm hearing. Jada's book, if it is in the Chicago Public Library, I will be reading it. I actually really like her. I think she gives. What?
00:54:02
Speaker
No, hear me out, hear me out. Jada is one of the first famous black women to give us like, she can do it all. Like she can be this like girl who lives in your neighborhood. She can be a rock star. She can do a horror film. She can be bleached. She can be cute and tough. Like she's just like an all around black woman. And then as she stopped doing films as much, she's just like quirky and like doing her band and da da da da da.
00:54:30
Speaker
So I like I like this slightiness, this creative energy about her. And I don't want to hear anything else about her marriage, but I like her a lot. I like I don't know much about her as a person, but I just you know, I think she's done something. She's done something cool. Why not? I'll read it. You know, I mean, that red table talk really turned the tables for me. Let's talk about it. What was it for you, girl? It I don't like people who are
00:55:00
Speaker
I just don't find her to be authentic. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. The same as what Jasmine's saying. To be all those things, how can you be authentically anything, right? If you can't be anything. But don't you feel like her and Will from Tiffany Haddish's book, I was like, absolutely not. Oh, no. That wasn't a great book. I mean, another conversation. No, I don't like that book. No.
00:55:30
Speaker
No, that's authentic. That book is authentic. That was authentic. That was authentic. And I'll just say that like, that the experience and I'm like, this really happened and I feel like it really happened this way. And they're so annoying. Will and Jada are so annoying. Couldn't agree more.
00:55:49
Speaker
Will King Richard get the hell out of it? Like it's whatever. Put that in a compartment. But he is that man in every film that he's in. He's the pursuit of happiness. He is. And I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. He is that man. But Jada is his wife. And I like again, she pops up. We got to like plot chart the news cycle of how she pops up, because she somehow manages to pop up, even though she's doing absolutely nothing.
00:56:18
Speaker
She manages to pop up every two years in the headlines because they feed us. They feed us every day. I think I truly think Jada is someone who like wakes up and she's like charging her crystals and she goes, you know what? I'm going to share something today. I feel healed in my spirit. And I'm going to share something. I don't like her. I truly don't think that she operates. She like feels in her spirit that this is herself being authentic. And it's too much for us. It's too much what other celebrities don't like her.
00:56:49
Speaker
Like, I want to know. Oh, I love this. You are her friends and who like so celebrities that listen to celebrities really like them. Hmm. Do you have real and Dwayne don't like them? Oh, God. Here we go. Oh, my God. Another marriage. Another marriage is the third party. We are the third partner in their relationship. I need to buy her second book, Gabrielle. It's a good book. It's a good one was good. Yeah, I like them both. I like them both.
00:57:18
Speaker
Mm, not me. Oh, I know you don't. Both of Gabrielle's book? I'm talking about the ship, Gabrielle. Oh, all her books. She doesn't like Dwayne. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really? The books. What part was the pivot for you, for Dwayne? They are two people who always end up in the news. Go ahead. Dwayne, I just don't like the way he dresses. Oh my god. I like it so much. I hate it with the passion, actually. That's your grievance? That's your grievance? Yeah, that is my- Wait, do you- I thought you were going to take deep.
00:57:48
Speaker
No. No. I just hate his outfit. I actually don't mind his outfits. He does something different. He's daring to be different. He's daring to be different. There aren't a lot of men who are giving us anything. I don't like it. Hates it.
00:58:05
Speaker
I'm not really impressed. In this day and age, we only hate men if they are incredibly accused of sexual assault, but you are out here hating on his fashion. Or literally anything else or anything else. I'll hate a man at the drop of a hat. Yeah, I mean, your outfits can get you out of here real quick. The fire is culturally in hell for them. Just be rich better.
00:58:29
Speaker
Do it better. I cannot believe that's your grievance. I really thought you would have like something deeper. No, no, I don't have anything deep other than his outfits or hideous. Well, I'm going to start. I'm going to start a little internal PR came for Dwayne Wade because I think in this day and age of the terrible men, she loves them. I don't think that you, I mean, if you don't follow them, you wouldn't see it. Maybe he's improving and you don't even know it. No, I know exactly what's going on. Still hate it.
00:58:57
Speaker
I want to know one other surprise celebrity that you don't like, but Brynn, please answer the question first. I mean, end it on a high note. Let the readers be good. But Brynn, are you reading the book and what are your thoughts?
00:59:14
Speaker
I will not read the book. No. Really? Not even audio book? You're not? Okay. Oh, I never do an audio book. That's the last thing I'm going to do. Love an audio book. I do too. It's fun. I don't know. I don't, unless, I mean, if either or both of you say, Oh, it's really good. It's worth reading, then I would read it. But okay. Jessica Simpson is worth reading. I will say I stand by that. Yeah. I love these basic ass white women have
00:59:38
Speaker
Some of the best but you guys you all know how I feel about Paris. I just watched that Pam Anderson documentary. Oh, her book is good. These these like late odds white women are Delivering they are they're giving up. They're giving a shirt. I can't wait for the Brittany one. Oh God, I just saw the Michelle Williams is doing the audiobook.
01:00:01
Speaker
Really? What? Yeah. Yeah. Britney and Michelle Williams are recording. What? Michelle Williams. Renowned actor Michelle Williams. What? That's what I just read. I mean, maybe I'm spreading. I'm confused. It's only confusing. I'm especially pick like Selena Gomez. Like somewhat. Okay.
01:00:18
Speaker
Oh, this sounds crazy. I'm thinking of who is at her wedding. I'm thinking of who is Madonna. I don't know. Paris, yeah. I did not think Michelle would. Well, Slade, it's going to be a dramatic reading. Interesting. All right. OK. Well, I don't know what to do with it. I don't either. I'm confused. I'm actually shocked. OK, give us one more celeb here.
Personal Views on Nicki Minaj and Closing Remarks
01:00:37
Speaker
Please. Give us one more celeb, Jess. Please. Oh, that I don't care for. That you don't rock with, yeah. It's like a surprise. Nicki Minaj.
01:00:48
Speaker
Okay, actually, that's reasonable. Not into her at all. She's awful. She has made choices. She has made choices. She's made choices. She thinks that, like, I could go on and on and on. I really don't like her. And I did like when she called out Miley at that award show. I thought that was funny. That was funny. Miley, what's good? I want to like Nicki Minaj. No, I don't. I want to root for her so badly, but her husband and all the other stuff.
01:01:17
Speaker
She has the potential. She has the potential. Does she? You know what, readers? And with that note. Wow. Thank you everyone for listening. Apparently I didn't drop off. I had to say some things. It was on your heart. It was on your heart. Yeah, I had to say some things. Oh, one more thing before we go. I just watched the Kardashians episode.
01:01:43
Speaker
last night on Who, the latest one, and they keep pumping out episodes like this, I'm out. Oh, I didn't watch it yet. What do you mean like it's too many episodes or? It is so boring. Oh, yeah. This is why we know they made up this fight. They made up the overproducing. There's no raw honesty. Keeping up with the Kardashians was good because they didn't have as much control as they do now. And you can tell
01:02:12
Speaker
that they have control and it's to their own detriment. But you can get more into that next week. Thanks for listening, everyone.
01:02:23
Speaker
She said, wrap it up. Thanks for listening, everyone. Follow us on Instagram at the pop culture audit. Tell us, like, send us DMs. Are you going to be reading Jada's book? And also, what do you think about the rundown of the Blackface conversation? It's your hot take on Blackface. Let us know. Let us know. Absolutely. We want to know. We want to hear from you all. Who is your least favorite Virgo? About race exchange. Who is your, and please don't try to guess who. That's how we get.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yeah, please don't try to guess who my least favorite one is. This person will forever be unnamed. So anyways, have a great week. We'll talk to you next week. Bye. Bye, readers.