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Breaking the glass ceiling on the screen and in the workplace?
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In this episode, we celebrate Michelle Yeoh’s Oscar win, discuss how Asian and Asian Americans fit in Hollywood, and explore how that pertains to the workplace as well as implications on leadership outcomes.
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HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT: Asian American Leaders in Silicon Valley
https://asiasociety.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/HiddenInPlainSight_Paper_042.pdf
Barely Crack in the Asian Glass Ceiling https://static1.squarespace.com/static/621f898a98dc785cd663ab7b/t/6411f34f7e8c0f338f50f144/1678898001325/Barely%2BBreaking%2Bthe%2BAsian%2BGlass%2BCeiling.pdf
Time Magazine: A Comprehensive Guide to the Ghost in the Shell Controversy
http://time.com/4714367/ghost-in-the-shell-controversy-scarlett-johansson
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Transcript
Introduction to Asian Representation in Hollywood
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome back everybody to another episode of Hidden in Plain Sight. We're your hosts. I'm Jenny. I'm Echo. And I'm Jill. So in honor of the Oscar, the historic Oscar win, we thought we would spend this episode talking about the representation of Asian, Asian Americans on the silver screen in Hollywood.
00:00:30
Speaker
We're going to take you down memory lane and share some examples of how the representation of Asian actors and actresses has changed over time for better or worse. And I think it would be helpful to remind ourselves and the audience how that ties back to the theme of our podcast, which is Asians in the Workplace.
00:00:59
Speaker
we should make sure that we leave a little bit of time to kind of tie that
Oscars and Inclusivity Pressures
00:01:02
Speaker
in. And for me, it's about representation. It's about fit, right? Asians being fit to lead in Hollywood, Asians being fit to lead in the workplace. So I just wanted to see like where you are at.
00:01:17
Speaker
Yeah, Jenny, can we actually start with talking about the Oscar that we had this past weekend? Because I just wanted to. I can't wait to share my thoughts on that before we get onto the memory in there. Yeah, so should we open up with that? I know you are eager to talk about that. So just for some context, because this is probably going to air long after this has happened, but last Sunday,
00:01:47
Speaker
was the Oscars and which movie swept up all the words? Everything everywhere. Once. The multiverse, yay. So, yeah, what were you thinking, Echo? Yeah, so, I mean, of course, like, we kind of already, like, seen, like, even, like, before the Oscars, like, the story of us are talking, we were like,
00:02:14
Speaker
Oh, we don't think like Michelle going to make it because like, well, she does one, like, she does win like a couple of awards before this already. But we were like, Oh, would that be like Oscar this time? Right? That was confident. I mean, I had hope. Yeah, she got the sag. I think she got the Golden Globe. And I didn't want to say anything out loud, but I'm like, you better win the option. So for me, like I kind of
00:02:43
Speaker
more like on the conservative side, I was like, oh, this will seem like it wins something, but it's probably not going to give her the winner. And
00:02:56
Speaker
And what ended up happening, I think you won like seven or eight out of 10 nominations, including like the best actress and best leading, well, leading actress, and then the supporting actor, supporting actress, and then the best picture. Best director, best screenplay, pretty much they won everything, almost everything.
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah, and I was like, oh, this is something like, this is like more than what they would expect to a degree that I almost feel like, is this like an overcompensate? And then when I'm looking at like all the other movies, I was like, yeah, it's also like a year of like, you don't really see like, it didn't look like there are some years in the history that you have like so many really like awesome movies like in a role.
00:03:49
Speaker
So yeah, no wonder. So overcompensating, do you think, so could you explain a little bit about what you mean by that? Is it the Oscars that are overcompensating? Look how inclusive we are. Look how much we love Asians. Is that what you're meaning?
Criticism versus Representation Impact
00:04:03
Speaker
To a certain degree, I think yes. Because I think someone were joking around, like Nasi was like a black Oscar. And then this year was like an Asian Oscar. To a certain degree, that made me feel that way. And as a matter of fact,
00:04:17
Speaker
I think there are some movie critics who are saying like, this movie wasn't that good. But isn't that as good as like a win, like eight out of 10? But even like the supporting role Ki Hui Kwon, the character he portrayed, like I watched the movie, even like in that movie, I felt like that is a stereotypical Asian male character that he played.
00:04:43
Speaker
even though like, yeah, like he knows like how to play Kung Fu. On the other end, I also find out like, one of my favorite actor was also like in the judge, and also an Asian. So I know like, because the judge, the pool of judge also become more diverse, so it can cooperate more voice into this. But anyway, I'm just gonna stop here and because I saw like Doug,
00:05:11
Speaker
What are you thinking? Because it looks like you have something to say. I think the last person of color to win an Oscar for Best Leading Actress is, I think, Halle Berry in 2002. And, you know, Michelle Yeoh is the next one. And we're at 2023.
00:05:35
Speaker
I don't know. I've only seen everything everywhere at once. I haven't seen the other movies. I actually didn't watch the Oscars. I saw it come through my news feed through New York Times and Friends. Someone told me that the best supporting actor won, thanked his mom, and got off stage. I thought it was pretty cool. But I don't want to discount the work that's there.
00:06:04
Speaker
And Michelle Yeoh got the win. And I think that's a big thing for her to have for people who look like her or who support her to have as well too.
00:06:22
Speaker
They can say whatever they want now at this point. If the competitors weren't that great or whatever this year, Michelle Yost still won. Like, that's a fact. She's an Oscar winning actress or actor, however you want to label it. That's who she is now. She didn't get one out of pity because there are some of those as well too.
Breaking Stereotypes with Character Depth
00:06:43
Speaker
I think the role that this was originally written for by the Daniels was supposed to go to Jackie Chan in the first place.
00:06:52
Speaker
I think last year he got one of those, you know, here's an Emmy for your, you know, or not Emmy, but your Oscar for your lifetime with the work because the work that he does really doesn't have a category. But he didn't get the spotlight that Michelle got, you know, Sunday night, you know.
00:07:14
Speaker
big ups to really her. And I hope she gets to celebrate and I hope we get to celebrate it as well too. And look, I think there's always going to be discounts. Any movie or any actor or actress, and we can do that and we can cut down other actors and actresses as well too. But I wouldn't really want to just celebrate the historic win.
00:07:39
Speaker
that happened this last Sunday. I agree with you. I don't think it was a pity award. And I actually do think, going back to what you said about Echo, what you said about Ki-Hae Kwon's role, yes, it is.
00:07:55
Speaker
an Asian role. I mean, it's an Asian-American family. But I think what was really interesting about the way they depicted him on screen was he's so three-dimensional. And I mean, we'll get to this before, but if you look at the portrayal of Asian-American men in Hollywood over their history, they're always shown as the nerd, the sidekick, the geek.
00:08:20
Speaker
You know, the asexualized man. But in this movie, he plays so many different roles. Sure, he does the kung fu thing.
00:08:28
Speaker
but he also plays a husband, he plays a dad, he plays, you know, in one multiverse, he plays this sexy Hollywood executive, you know, this mysterious guy. And it's in a way, it's paying homage to all the roles that, or all the ways Asian men were not depicted in three dimensional ways. So I thought it was just, it was well deserved. And honestly, I haven't watched any of the other movies, so maybe I am biased, but,
00:08:58
Speaker
I mean, there was no other movie like it. It's so original. It's completely original, creative. And the fact that it was an all-Asian, Asian-American cast, I think just speaks volumes to, you know, there is an audience for this. Mostly, right? I think Jamie Lee Curtis does sound Asian. The honorary Asian, yes. She was great enough.
00:09:53
Speaker
I see her role, what this really mimicked in the workplace is
00:10:00
Speaker
She's that one person female in tech leadership. When I say this, it's because in the world, in this like a kung fu movie world, it has been a very male dominant market.
Family and Immigrant Storytelling Themes
00:10:14
Speaker
And the fact that her own upbringing, like she came from a very rich family in Malaysia. And the fact that she put effort into this and make all those hard work, like I felt like it stick even like that,
00:10:29
Speaker
She even like a joke with Jackie Chung about Jackie Chung didn't won this role in the first place and she got the role. It's almost like made this legendary historical moment on female in the tech leadership. That type of double barrier or whatever the difficulty she's facing over the years.
00:11:01
Speaker
one word that I pick up from another like a YouTube clip was wacky meaning like it's a it's a wacky movie that has some like
00:11:10
Speaker
very fun moment, but those moments were carried in such a peculiar way. AKA different. It's different. It's original. It's not your typical melodrama, all-white cast. So maybe that's playing into it as well. Echo, I actually didn't know Michelle grew up like that, but I think in the movie she portrayed a
00:11:37
Speaker
You know, an immigrant woman, you know, trying to make it and seeing the struggles and being part of that sandwich generation of having to raise an Asian American daughter who is a lesbian and who she can't find the, at the moment, the energy to tell her father or the granddaughter's grandfather that
00:12:00
Speaker
there are a couple and that was a struggle there. And I think on top of just trying to make ends meet and making sure all these little things happen in the workplace. And I don't know, I felt like it was a story that just has not been told at least in Hollywood of the immigrant story. And maybe that's my bias, right? That's my perspective on this is that
00:12:27
Speaker
they have kind of tapped into something with this and the multiverse and it was a little weird here and there but I mean I think
00:12:40
Speaker
I don't know, I think there's a lot of creativity that came into play that made it unique, that made, you know, Michelle Yeoh, not the typical Michelle Yeoh that we know of, the Kung Fu master that she is. I think the role that I think that Daniels had her play was you're not supposed to know how to do these things, right? Your body knows how to do these things because you have somehow downloaded this from another universe and that is a part of you now.
00:13:07
Speaker
And she's like flabbergasted that she's this movie star in one and have all these other achievements in others. But I love the fact that they have this play on words of just because her daughter's name is Joy, every universe that she goes to, she's always trying to find joy. And that's her happiness. And I love that. That's just my view on the movie.
00:13:33
Speaker
Yeah, well, we have a lot to unpack. I mean, I'm with you, Duck, on the fact that they portrayed a very humble, you know, financially struggling Asian American family. And I think that was awesome. So not all Asians are crazy rich, you know.
00:13:51
Speaker
We, we struggle with taxes. You know, some of us are struggling with, with family problems and, and divorce issues and, you know, issues and problems between parents and kids. So it was just very humanizing. Hmm. Yeah. One of the, uh, actor, one of the Danews, uh, sorry, the director is one of the Danews, um, the, the Asian one, um,
00:14:17
Speaker
Actually, like if you look at there, he's like a Wikipedia page or something. He actually had like in poster syndrome, which I found was interesting because we talked about this before is like how Asians are sometimes like us trying to making things better. And sometimes like we will have this in poster syndrome. And I saw, is it just him or is it just more Asian thing?
00:14:46
Speaker
So I just picked it up on that. That's a whole nother topic. Whether he likes her or not, he's an Oscar winning director now, whether he thinks he's imposter or not, he's got one of those. I mean, imposter syndrome, we could probably spend an entire episode just talking about that and how that manifests for Asians in the workplace.
History and Issues of Asian Representation
00:15:09
Speaker
So shall we move on to the main crux of our episode today, which is
00:15:17
Speaker
kind of briefly going over the history of how Asians were portrayed in Hollywood.
00:15:47
Speaker
So we'll start with, originally back in the day, how were Asians depicted? And I think James Hong talked about this at the, was it the SAG award? Which movie do we want to start with? Maybe we should just briefly talk about, originally, back in the day, how were Asians portrayed in Hollywood? Who portrayed them? Was it Asian actors?
00:16:11
Speaker
Nope. Nope. You're shaking your head. Putting up a little X on my camera. Yeah. Great question, Jenny. You know, I think, as you allude to, Asian actors were portrayed by actually white people. I think Mickey Rourke actually got an endorsement from the New York Times for
00:16:35
Speaker
how amazing of an actor he was when the movie Breakfast at Tiffany's came out when he actually played a Japanese landlord in that movie. He put on some buck teeth and put some tape on his eyes. And I think Tom alluded to that back in the day when he was growing up, Asians were portrayed by white people who put tape on their eyes to portray them. And it's so
00:17:04
Speaker
Ah, it's kind of so frustrating because I actually didn't know about this until I think I watched, I think there's a Bruce Lee movie that came out in the 90s, Dragon or something like that. It actually showcased, it was knocking on the fourth wall a little bit, showing him and his wife, his white wife going to breakfast at Tiffany's, Bruce Lee being uncomfortable that Mickey Rourke, a white guy, was betraying this Japanese character.
00:17:33
Speaker
you know, really not representing him, not representing Asian Americans. And it just showed that frustration in that movie. I think I learned it from that movie that I watched Breakfast at Tiffany when I saw it seen, I was frustrated at it as well. But I also realized that that was not the only movie that was like one of them. And that's unfortunate. Yeah. And there's a thing, there's actually a phrase that we use to refer to that, which is yellow face. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:03
Speaker
And I think the sad thing about this was what breakfast at Tiffany's was 1961. Okay. 62 years ago. So I'm like, well, it can't happen now, can it? Well, you got some bad news. Yeah, but even this still carry on. Well, I guess like not to like the latest one that we saw was Dr. Strange.
00:18:27
Speaker
played by Tilda Swinton as the Asian one. Was that the most recent one? Like that was like 2016, so not that long ago, seven years ago.
00:18:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And then before that, um, you know, there was, uh, Benedict Cumberbatch playing Khan, K-H-A-N, which is a very Asian name. That was from 2013, Star Trek Into Darkness. And then there were some other ones, right? Aloha with Emma Stone. She was supposed to play someone who was like, uh, a quarter Chinese. And then Scarlett Johansson, ScarJo, got a lot of
00:19:05
Speaker
Got a lot of criticism because she was cast in the role of Ghost in the Shell. It was supposed to be a Japanese woman. There was a lot of outcry.
00:19:17
Speaker
among not just Asian Americans but also fans of the movie Ghost in the Shell saying this is, you know, this is not right. Emma Stone got a lot of shit for it too. I think at one point she mentions it in SNL. What's your take on that? You know, I think people are speaking up. It is, but it's also sometimes if I
00:19:42
Speaker
timing this back to like a workplace, I think a lot of place where they started to focus on the diverse representation is because they cared about the market. They care about their customer base because they know their customer not going to be happy about seeing only like white or male people on their client facing roles. And so they started to having that representation so they can enter in into those markets.
00:20:08
Speaker
which I think in this case is, well, I guess like the reason why they use those white cast was because they felt like, oh, then they can like cater into more of like no code need because they felt like the most of the customers or the market or the viewers are white or they assume this is what people liked about. But the fact is all those outcries actually make them realize, hey, there are
00:20:39
Speaker
other more diverse viewers out there, and they're not very happy about this. But I'm also hoping this is not primarily driven by the market share. This is not driven primarily due to this. I'm hoping there's something more that they are thinking than just caring about their viewership.
00:21:08
Speaker
Well, I just want to mention the movies flopped. So Aloha flopped, Ghost in the Shell flopped. So I think people spoke, like, we're not going to see this. And I think that's, that is the main driver. I'm sorry to say, I don't think it's because out of the goodness of their heart, it's because they want to make money. And people spoke with their wallets. And I'm sure it's not only just like, because the viewers are Asians, that's also because like the, even like the mainstream doesn't like it.
00:21:37
Speaker
So a small pocket of the viewer that not happy about this. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, when I heard that about Dr. Strange, I wanted, I'm a big Marvel, I love Marvel Comics. I wanted to see that and I refused to watch Dr. Strange. I was just so pissed about it. Like Tilda Swinton as the ancient one. I'm like, give me a break.
00:22:06
Speaker
Scarlett Johansson as, I think it was Makoto Kusanagi from the original Japanese anime, I think from the, I want to say 1990s or something like that. It's an amazing, amazing movie and I absolutely love it. And it actually talks about artificial intelligence and how sometimes things can start to think on their own.
00:22:30
Speaker
and the major plays a big role in this and of course it's I think she's referred to as you know Kusanagi most of the time in the anime but of course in the movie they just renamed it to just major omitting
00:22:46
Speaker
or omitting the name of Kusanagi which is of course of Japanese descent and that really pissed me off as well too because like not only are you omitting that you're erasing that part as well too hoping that people who don't know won't know and the people who do know won't care and that's actually very frustrating.
Positive Changes in Modern Portrayals
00:23:32
Speaker
So on a more positive note, so recently, what have we been seeing? I guess in the past, even like five years, how has Asian representation in Hollywood changed?
00:23:46
Speaker
You know, one of the most, I think, crazy rich Asians when it came out in 2018 was something that I was still marveling over because before that I think another Holly movie that had an all Asian cast was The Namesake and prior to that is actually The Joy Luck Club, I think from like 1995 or something.
00:24:11
Speaker
So the fact that when Crazy Rich Asians came out, I liked it because it had that. I also liked it because Gemma is also on my phone. She's a gorgeous actress.
00:24:28
Speaker
She is But I thought that was I mean I thought it was pretty cool to have an all-asian cast and see something modern like that have folks go from like they're traveling from Singapore to New York to do business or to take on a different businesses and to see that they travel the world and do these things like other normal folks and to see that they are Looking for love to you. That's that was amazing to me. I
00:24:56
Speaker
It shows Asian men in a very three-dimensional, positive light, and that's one of the things I loved about Crazy Rich Asians. It was showing Asian men as being desirable, as being sexy. I mean, don't get me wrong, that was the reason why I felt like one's role played in everything everywhere I was.
00:25:19
Speaker
was a bit of like well at least like the husband role that he played in bit of like stereotypical like Asian male like that wasn't portrayed as like masculine or like desirable by other people. I think we came at a very different angle that helped I think the main character I don't remember what he said but he was I thought he helped persuade Michelle Yeoh to just find happiness or joy and to really care for
00:25:50
Speaker
you know, another person deeply as what I remember. And I don't think you hear that much in that much in kung fu movies to really just care about others. You know, I would say I would say I would, you know, beg to differ that it wasn't a stereotypical role. If we do want to talk about stereotypical roles, we can talk about 16 candles and long duck dong and how he was portrayed as meek and didn't speak English and
00:26:17
Speaker
and speak to girls in high school, that is an embarrassment. And I know some actors probably feel that way, but that's what they needed to do to make that money at the time. It's a part of me that doesn't really fault them for that. But I think as we progress, we need our Asian actors and actresses to say no to these stereotypical roles.
00:26:44
Speaker
because it doesn't paint them or us in a positive light. And I think part of this podcast is really showcasing that, look, folks, we got a lot of really talented folks that are here in plain sight and you need to recognize us. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:11
Speaker
And we are multidimensional and also echo. He was playing a dad like he's a 51 year old guy playing a dad. So he does like in one multiverse. He does. You know, you know, he's this debonair sexy, mysterious, you know, Hollywood executive. But I do agree with you, Doug.
00:27:29
Speaker
That's one of the reasons why I thought the role was so amazing was because he's portraying this family guy who's unhappy with his marriage because his wife is just not seeing him and he doesn't feel wanted, he doesn't feel like he's happy. So I thought it was very multi-dimensional and not stereotypical. I tease Echo for a second and we can edit this out if we want to.
00:27:55
Speaker
Who's his wife? This guy's wife? Qui Juan? What's his wife? Echo. Echo, are you speaking on someone else's behalf? Is my question. Is there frustrations that you are? Yeah, I saw the name of him. I laughed at it. Yeah, I was like, oh.
00:28:21
Speaker
This is how I really feel about this character.
00:28:27
Speaker
I thought that was so sweet. So when he was thanking his wife at the Oscars, I was like, oh, his wife's name is Echo. Maybe I was like, oh yeah, yeah, that part. No, I was going back to the movie itself. Maybe I was just probably have set such a high bar into what that husband role, that role should look like compared to some of the roles that we've seen in more Western movies.
00:28:57
Speaker
Um, yeah, but to a point, like it was actually portraying like a very typical, traditional Asian family. Um, so, yeah. So I saw that other example that we have was, um, from White Lotus, that the most recent example of season two, Will Sharp.
Impact of Diverse Casting on Market Decisions
00:29:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, Will Sharp. He is a Japanese, British actor.
00:29:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I think a lot of people really like that character and it was like supposed to be played by some like another like white guy, but somehow like people just
00:29:35
Speaker
put him on the spot and he actually married to a white woman in the TV series itself? Well, she's actually Puerto Rican. Puerto Rican and white. And there's a line in this season where she says, we are the other couple's white passing friends. So both of them are biracial. Both of them are, you know, they look white-ish.
00:30:04
Speaker
So I thought that was also very interesting how they played on that and talking about what it's like being in their shoes surrounded by all these white people in their white passing, but they're not really, like she's, and I think they even mentioned like she's Puerto Rican, like her parents are Puerto Rican. And then he's obviously biracial. So again, like in the series, he's portrayed as a CEO, he's married to a hot wife.
00:30:31
Speaker
He's agentic. He gets into a fight. I mean, we don't want to spoil it for people who haven't seen the show, but I think it's a good change. I mean, if you compare that to what was portrayed, what, 60 years ago by white people,
00:30:48
Speaker
Yeah, or having other roles wiped out and just played by white actors or actresses in movies, which was quite recent. You know, bringing this back to the theme of the podcast, how does this relate to Asians in the workplace? I mean, to start a ways there is, I think I talked about this earlier, breaking that stereotypes.
00:31:19
Speaker
and the representation itself, that all seems like what the industry has already been doing or the company's trying to do right now. Like, yeah, like I see Michelle Yeoh win the Oscar, the same level as like the Fortune 500 company had the first female CEO or like first female
00:31:48
Speaker
Asian, Asian female on their board. That's almost like in that. Well, but again, like right now at this moment, he she is still the only Asian female. So we all know that what that like only thing on the board on the on the on the table that we're also having like a different implications. So turning to that is like we wanted to see more and more
00:32:19
Speaker
of faces like that showing up on our big screen. For me, I would say the Oscars is like this pinnacle award of excellence in cinema. And to see Michelle Yeoh get it, and I'm just smiling from ear to ear, I'm just thinking this is symbolic that we've always had the talent, right? It's there.
00:32:47
Speaker
She got recognized, and I hope this trickles through, and this is an artifact within the system that we see other Asian and Asian Americans get recognized in the workplace for the work that they're able to do, the work they can do, and the leadership that they can have, and the skills that they can bring to the organization. That's kind of what I saw or felt and hoped in a way all at once.
00:33:13
Speaker
all at once when I heard that she won. And I'm like, I think in our little group chat that we had in this prep, I think we've been sending little memes here and there to each other. And I'm like, I got to send something over. I got to show how Michelle Yeoh's mom's so proud of her. So I'm like, I don't know. For me, it's like,
00:33:40
Speaker
It's an artifact of this thing that's happening, right? That's gonna move away from like,
00:33:49
Speaker
We're not going to allow white actors and actresses to play folks who are supposed to be Asian, Asian-American. We're trying to wipe us out in movies and erase our names. We're going to know about it. And we're going to not vote with our dollars. And if you put good folks in that can play really good roles, we're going to support them. And we're going to showcase to you that we can do the work we can take on the role.
00:34:13
Speaker
Yep, yep. So what I'm hearing is like a few things. The first one is the glass ceiling has been broken and it's been broken by Michelle Yeoh. And I also heard Echo saying what it means to be the only Asian woman who has won that award. So it is sort of like, it's a lot to carry for one person. And then from Doug, I'm hearing, you know, we've always been here. We're everything everywhere all at once, but now we're being recognized.
00:34:43
Speaker
I love it
00:35:04
Speaker
And I just wanted to add to that, you know, the fact that Asian Americans, because the study was about Asian Americans, are the least likely group to be seen as leaders in the workplace. And this was based on a report by, I think, Ascend. There was an HBR article about this as well by what was a G in PEC, for those of you who want to look it up. But it just shows that
00:35:29
Speaker
Asian Americans have the worst leadership outcomes out of any group in the workplace, which is, I think some people find it surprising because a lot of people think we are overrepresented. We're everywhere, right? Oh, there's too many Asians or too many Asians. But in reality, when you really look at the numbers, we don't really make it past that a certain level within the organization. So I think what we saw at the Oscars was a huge FU to that misconception that Asians are not fit to be leaders.
00:35:59
Speaker
And that actually remind me one of the interview that he won, that made a couple of like days ago, like he was like, he actually was quite like he makes a little bit of fame in the Hong Kong movie market back in the days. And then when he moved over to the US,
00:36:25
Speaker
But what is happening is like all the movies don't want Asian cast. So all he can play is those like sidekicks and those like smaller roles. And to a point like he had to transition to behind the screen, meaning like he needs to do some of the production work back in the day.
00:36:45
Speaker
It's almost like, and then like people were saying like, oh, we're still like so happy you still kept this on you because like after all those years, haven't been an actor and now you have been able to pull it off. But it was like in the movie industry, there aren't even like opportunities for Asians. So if we're thinking about that pipeline, there's not even like anything like in that pipeline to begin with.
00:37:12
Speaker
I felt like there's a huge gap even from that perspective to see that, let alone going to that leadership role. Yeah. Greg, Echo, I think you bring up a great point with just even getting the top of funnel in the pipeline. And it really reminded me of, I think,
00:37:33
Speaker
When Bruce Lee was in The Green Hornet, he was the sidekick. And I think he also came up with the idea of the would-be series called Kung Fu, played by David Carradine, who was put in makeup to make a look more Asian.
00:37:52
Speaker
I actually didn't really know about that until like in the 90s. I started watching like Kung Fu, The Legend Continues. And then I would bring it back to some of these scenes back from like the 60s and 70s. But apparently David Carradine was supposed to be playing an Asian person. I had no idea in the 90s until later, you know. What? He wasn't Asian? What? No, and this was a big please idea.
00:38:17
Speaker
Someone walking around, like, sharing the ideas and philosophy of kung fu to solve everyday problems. So... Oh, I don't know. I hear you on the pipeline isn't there, that we get pushed aside, ideas get stolen. But I really want to come back to the whole... Michelle Yeoh made it.
00:38:47
Speaker
And that's a rising tide that's going to raise all boats and raise our expectations for what she's going to be part of. Hey, when we think of best actress, best Oscar-winning actress-actor, she's one of them. That's it. Mic drop. That's it. She's one of them.
00:39:15
Speaker
Oh, another thing since we talked about how this title workplace. I also like to mention this slightly earlier. Daniel Wu was one of the Oscar judge, and he mentioned on his Instagram, he voted for like Michelle Yeoh.
00:39:32
Speaker
Um, and so as we think about like in importance of like the, the raters in the, in organization, like you being the, the boss or, um, the, the, the management started to making those promotion decisions, like who you wanted to cast that vote to. I think that also matters, right?
Need for Diverse Decision-Makers
00:39:54
Speaker
Like as you see more and more people being in that management role, being that leadership role, they have more.
00:40:02
Speaker
decision power at play. So I think that's also important. Danny Wu is also like an American actor, but started his movie career in Hong Kong.
00:40:16
Speaker
Wasn't there a couple of years ago we had like the Oscar so white and it kind of turned out that a lot of the Academy voters were mostly white and hopefully, you know, they made some changes to it. And I think this is symbolic of, in a way, an artifact of Hollywood, but also in organizations as well too, is that the power is centralized.
00:40:43
Speaker
around, you know, whiteness quite a bit. I was actually speaking to another person at work and, you know, she's a black woman. She knows that I think she's like, I feel like she's in her mid 50s or so. And she knows that she's kind of hit her peak or she can't go any further.
00:41:03
Speaker
And she told me, look, these interns that these folks have been hiring, I've been training them. They think they've been doing all this work and training their interns, but it's me that's telling them how to do this and that and getting them ready. These folks think they're doing these managers of theirs.
00:41:21
Speaker
think that they're doing all this, but it's really me. And I'm like, that's amazing that you recognize that. And you recognize the talent that's there. The managers don't see that, but you're able to get them ready and sing them out. And she's like, I got to. When I see this talent, I got to bring them up, right? Because there's a limitation to where I'm at. But for them, they're a different generation. And I got to get them to a different stage. And that's my goal. And I love that. I mean, just hearing that from her. And this was just a conversation of passing. And I'm like,
00:41:51
Speaker
wow, I'm going to support this person as much as I can within this organization so that she can do continue to do that. And I can continue to maybe play a small role in supporting that as well to seeing the talent out there and lifting other people up so they can move forward, you know, irrespective of the role that I'm in.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's beautiful, like rainbow coalition, like we bring each other up. We bring other VIPOCs along because we can't do it on our own. Like this is not an Asian issue. This is not, you know, or a black issue. Like we, we have to band together and bring each other along because otherwise, you know, we're just not, we're not going to make as much progress. So I love that. Yeah. Divided before. Yeah.
00:42:40
Speaker
So while you were talking, I know Echo, you always do this. So I just asked Chad GPTU to write a poem about the historic Oscar win for everything everywhere, all at once.
00:42:53
Speaker
It's quite long, so I'm not gonna read the whole thing. I'll read the last part. A triumph of imagination and art, a message of hope that touched every heart. And so we celebrate this historic night with cheers and applause, with joy and delight. For this is more than just a movie, it's a masterpiece, a work of beauty. And as we bask in its glory and fame, we know that it will never be the same. Wow. Wait, can I share something poetic down to?
00:43:23
Speaker
Let's hear it. Let's hear it. All right. Well, I think one of the shortest poems is, I think, Adam Haddam. I think that's three syllables. I want to tap into Ali a little bit. And when he was giving a graduation commencement speech, someone challenged him to make sure that he was, I think he was at Harvard, Harvard worthy. Like, give us a poem.
00:43:53
Speaker
So of course Ali's always able to stick on his feet and he said, me, we. And I thought that was beautiful. And I want to outdo the greatest. Yeah. Well, that was Ali. Here's me kind of one of the greatest. And mine would be.
00:44:24
Speaker
All of us, all of us, it's gonna take all of us. All right. And I hope, yeah, this is, I love this conversation that we're having. I hope this continues in our, you know, with our listeners and within our community to the
00:44:41
Speaker
Bring each other along, right? Because there's going to be times that we struggle in time where we need help. And I hope we're there for each other to uplift each other, to remind each other that we can do it. We will do it. And we have seen others like us do it already. So we're just repeating it, you know?
00:45:00
Speaker
But where there are rules not like that, we may have to break that glass ceiling and do it. And I'm so thankful that Michelle Yeoh has done that at the Oscars last week. So I'm still, yeah. Bask in that quarry. All right, well, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Hidden in Plain Sight. We'll catch you again on our next episode on all things Asian in the workplace. Bye.