Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Interview with Luke from Graycastle Press
24 Plays2 months ago
I got the absolute pleasure to interview Luke from Graycastle Press. He is an amazing author that has worked on several titles to aid players and DMs in exploring their roleplaying and creative ideas.
We talked about solo RPGs, solved two tough puzzles, and also talked about one of his favorite puzzles games!
Check him out at https://www.instagram.com/graycastlepress/ or https://www.graycastlepress.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Poetic Introduction
00:00:11
Speaker
Sure amounts and never grows And wins a toothless spider Darkness fills up the deep holes And turns an endless spider What we're here for is mysteries But puzzles yet unsolved Such that secrets last to history Has not your problem solved alone Dungeon zoom, problem zoom, puzzle zoom to solve them all. Dungeon zoom, problem zoom, puzzle zoom to solve them all.
Guest Introduction and Mishap
00:01:11
Speaker
Ah, hello, my friends, and welcome to take two of my Dungeon Props podcast. I'm Marthos Grations, and I'm joined by a wonderful content creator who just gave an amazing answer who we're going to hopefully replicate it again today. I'm joined by Luke from the Grey Castle Press. Luke, thank you so much for joining us for the second time. Yeah, absolutely. I know. Listen, second time's a charm. It'll be better. It'll be even better.
00:01:41
Speaker
For those of you who don't do podcasts on your own or don't do any sort of content creation, there's nothing worse than forgetting to hit record. ah I had a podcast for a while, but this was probably like 12 years ago, and there's definitely been a couple of times I've run into that, so I i ah can commiserate with you on that.
Luke's Background and Works
00:02:01
Speaker
Well, folks, if you don't know who Luke from Grey Castle Press is, time to get out from underneath that rock that you're currently living under.
00:02:08
Speaker
ah Great Castle Press is a phenomenal, would you use the word studio, gaming, ah TTRPG creator? How would you kind of? Yeah, I usually describe myself as ah as an indie TTRPG publisher. So and and kind of under the the umbrella phrase of ah creative tools for creative people.
00:02:31
Speaker
Oh, I like that. I first got to know him through his work on the book Journey, which is a phenomenal way of doing some world building. You want to tell us a little bit about Journey?
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So Journey actually came from ah a world building process I've always had in my head since I was a kid, you know, I on a previous ah go with this, you you use the scare quotes of a writer ah and quote quote writer quote, and I fully identify with that because I, you know, I've started so many projects and have all these ideas for books and listen, writing is hard and anybody that can finish a novel, I admire so much because it takes a lot of dedication.
00:03:12
Speaker
But this kind of world building process I've had in my head since I was a kid, I always kind of had um some difficulty. Like, how do how do I explain that to you? How do I make it in such a way people can engage with it? And then as I started playing TTRPGs, I realized I can make it a game. And so Journey is a solo tabletop role playing game.
00:03:31
Speaker
and a world building game that you can pretty much any setting, whether it's a whole galaxy or a single room, you can step into the shoes of somebody within that setting and kind of zoom in on different aspects of that setting to get more detail or new ideas to to bring back to your creative work. And at the end of the day, you'll have a world that feels maybe a little more alive, a little more realized, and maybe a little bit more fun detail to take back with you to whether you're writing a book,
00:03:59
Speaker
ah or you're running a tabletop role-playing game, or I've had somebody who was making a screenplay who was using Journey um to get a little bit more detail to throw into their
Game Design: Journey and Stargazer
00:04:10
Speaker
world. So it's been a really fun experience. And um I'm actually doing a game right now called Stargazer, which is kind of like Journey, but for characters.
00:04:18
Speaker
And so it's this whole process where you're envisioning a character and you're using this this process of stargazing, ah using this map that i'm I'm currently making right now of constellations and a bunch of dynamic prompt generation ah to find out new information about a character and come out similar to where Journey gives you a more realized world, ah Stargazer will help you have a more realized character for whatever you're taking them into, whether it's a tabletop role-playing game or a book or pretty much anything.
00:04:48
Speaker
listeners, you obviously can't see my face right now, because you're listening to this, but my jaw just dropped a little bit because I just saw endless possibilities with that and how cool it sounds. but it's It's been a lot of fun to put together. Stargazer actually has been I wanted to put it out last year. And then obviously, you know, the world got away from me. And I finally came back to it with this whole new like shape and a bunch of new mechanics. And it's I'm really I think it's gonna be really fun. I think people are gonna love it.
00:05:17
Speaker
When I first heard it, it made it made me think of the old Elder Scrolls, Oblivion, where you first like pick which constellation is your constellation. It gives you a boost to your magic. It does something. Is it like that or is it completely different? I mean, it's I mean, I feel like it has kind of a thematic tie to that. i I love that when I first played Morrowind. And, you know, not having known anything about the Elder Scrolls, I remember on my old computer that could barely run that game. And it was just like you go into character creation and there's also many options and it's almost overwhelming. But it's also like you come out of that process with a character that you relate to so much in a different way than I had really
00:05:58
Speaker
in a lot of other games I'd played. So, yeah, I feel like maybe thematically, mechanically, it's, you know, you're you're doing a little bit kind of a different process, but, you know, I think that kind of thing of using the stars to inform what that character trait might look like is, I think, kind of a universal thing a lot of people engage with. yeah I think it's pretty cool.
Grey Castle Press and Social Media Presence
00:06:19
Speaker
Well, listeners, you've just heard about a whole bunch of cool stuff that Grey Castle Press is doing, which you can find on DriveThruRPG.
00:06:27
Speaker
There's a couple different, uh, I don't want to use the word products because that sounds so creative. material I always say titles or they're different titles, but I feel like that also is like sounds cool. It sounds a little bit better, but when you start talking about books and you start talking about games and they're, they're titles, but they also have titles. I don't know. It gets marketing marketing. Speak always gets really complicated.
00:06:49
Speaker
instant migraine right there. Go check it out. Also check them out on TikTok and Instagram. He does amazing work. But we're here to talk about puzzles.
Puzzles in Online TTRPGs
00:07:01
Speaker
Yes. And we have that very first question, which already had a beautiful answer. And we're going to get a second beautiful answer as well. Do you like puzzles? Are you blasรฉ about puzzles or are you in extra hatred of puzzles?
00:07:17
Speaker
Yeah, i think i think puzzles are I think puzzles are neat. I always think of Marge Simpson with a potato. I just think they're neat. like ah the The idea of putting a puzzle, especially one that you as like a game master have like crafted and put in front of your players, it's such a cool thing because it's ah yet another one of those little things you you put in their hands and you get to see what they're going to do with it.
00:07:37
Speaker
um i Unfortunately, I feel like i the way I phrased it before was I like the idea of puzzles. um I play pretty much exclusively online. I've played one Adventurers League game in person, and that's the extent of my experience of playing in-person tabletop role-playing games. I would love to do more. It's just I feel like my my home game with my group online is kind of the one that I've got like the bandwidth for.
00:08:00
Speaker
um But I think that playing online, there is already a ah lot of opportunities for signal signal noise to to kind of get in the way of the way that ah different mechanics work with puzzles and lots of other things. And I think things like how many players you have on the call at one time, the type of tools or virtual tabletops you're using,
00:08:23
Speaker
and people's levels of comfort and experience with those tools. I think there's um a lot of things that can very easily get in the way when you're on online games. um And I feel like when especially when puzzles are inherently kind of challenging, you know, the discourse around puzzles is always like do you either hate them or you love them and Even if you love them, putting them in front of people can be really difficult because you don't know how people are really going to engage with it. It's the old the rule of of puzzles being like, if if a kindergartner can solve it, that's the kind of puzzle you want to put into your tabletop role-playing game because it's going to be a lot easier for your players to engage with. But when youre when you're playing online and you've got people talking over each other and tools that maybe not everybody has the same level of comfort with, it can be really tough to put a satisfying puzzle in front of them.
00:09:11
Speaker
um And so i they're definitely something that i I read a lot about, and I look at a lot online, and I think, oh, maybe I could do that. um I think our our version of puzzles tends to be social intrigue and things that you can find you can deduce and and solve at more of a macro scale to advance the game narrative and action forward versus kind of a more of a micro puzzle. um that Especially, I always have the idea that I'm going to, and I think um Oh my goodness. DM Jeremy mentioned this on on that recent episode of of your podcast where he was talking about always kind of having that idea of maybe I'll nail out props to all of my players. And I'm just like, what? I get out of my brain. I think that's the best idea, but also that's not cheap, especially for sending out like real cool props to people. saying
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah, but definitely yeah TLDR, I think puzzles are real neat. I just i've have had a difficult time figuring out as an online exclusive game master how to really effectively put them in front of my players in a way that you know is more of a universal way to approach puzzles. You really just made me think of one of the things I find so weird about online games versus in-person games.
00:10:26
Speaker
where you mentioned like everyone's talking at once. And for some reason when I play online, when I do that, it just seems so much more loud and chaotic than in person. Maybe it's because I'm in person, I'm a deaf son of a bitch, but like online, because it's all like right there, it can become so overwhelming. And especially when you have puzzles where everyone's thoughts are going a mile a minute, ah it would be weird. it would I think one thing that could help with that maybe is doing a puzzle with initiative.
00:11:02
Speaker
I love that idea that is the it is a mechanic idea that i I love like the idea of an encounter being only combat I think doesn't necessarily really make sense to have it that restricted I think when you're in a position where it is there's action happening um even if it's not like immediate action like danger people are gonna go around and try it make their attempts to solve something to ask questions to whatever I think that that whether it's like an initiative role or just like we're going to go in order and we're going to loop around the group and you know, do whatever you're going to do on your quote unquote turn. um You know, it's a little looser than maybe combat initiative and something like D and&D, but I think it's such a good idea. And I think it is a a kind of a secret weapon when it comes to playing online is being able to use initiative and and that kind of
00:11:51
Speaker
I guess it's really just taking turns and and being polite to each other, but gamifying it and systematizing it is, I think, into initiative makes a lot of sense and it makes a lot easier to understand, I think, um and and present to players. I think it's a great idea for online puzzles and all kinds of encounters.
00:12:07
Speaker
One of my previous guests does that to help with timing and like how he does damage with it. But I think it would be very interesting because it would also allow people to take a second, and think about what they want to do, kind of like in combat. You always say, prep your turn. But then they also would be able to build off of what the other people done. So like it's my turn first and I say, I want to investigate the statue. I find a secret button.
00:12:35
Speaker
turnover. Next person would be like, okay, well, there's a secret button. Maybe we should identify what that might do. Let's do an arcana check to see if it will explode or something. I think that I, I'm going to suggest that to my DM who runs me online. I'm just gonna be like, maybe next puzzle, we do it with initiative. What do you think some of the other challenges are for online puzzle?
00:13:00
Speaker
Well, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head a little bit ago when you were talking about the idea of like crosstalk, the, the, when you're sitting at a table with people, it's so much easier to have more, you know, it still can be difficult obviously when everybody's talking at once, you know, sometimes that's just the vibe and there's the chaos is happening.
00:13:16
Speaker
But I think because you know it's it's almost like a spatial hearing thing because when there's people over here and people over here and you're you're able to identify the voices is coming from different points. yeah It is not as overwhelming where you're absolutely right. when Even two people are talking over each other on an audio call. It's just like oh.
00:13:32
Speaker
It's like jarring because you can't, there's no parsing them apart. It's not like you're having them, you know, with spatial audio or whatever. It's just all in one speaker. And so it can be really, really difficult. And I think to your point, Initiative really helps with that um because it systematizes the ability of people to not just be talking over each other, um and especially if people are availing themselves of other tools like chat, like you can be typing to each other and chatting and planning rather than like talking at each other across a table.
00:14:00
Speaker
or trying to talk while people are taking their turn, you can use like you know ah text chat to try to coordinate some of those things. But I think it's one of those things that definitely um can feed into a lot of chaos, both in a puzzle situation and really any situation. I i think when i when I approach online games, I break this rule ah immediately with my own group, because that we we usually have five people playing at once. But I think there's like a magic number of like three or four players and one game master when you're playing like an online game because then there's enough variety and there's enough people feeding in their perspectives into a game to to bring new interest into whatever's happening, but there's less of a, um you know, you're going to have to really divide up the time and give everybody their chance to shine when in reality to do that, they're going to have to be the only one really talking at it in a given moment.
00:14:48
Speaker
um I think it can be really challenging in those types of encounters but um the yeah the other piece of that I think is where you're playing and when you're playing in person you have the ability to hand somebody a sheet of paper or a prop. that There was ah DM Jeremy was talking about like the Da Vinci's I think it's like a codex I think it's called or whatever the yeah rotating thing.
00:15:08
Speaker
such a cool prop. i I wish I could just hand that through the screen and give it to my players. I mean, you could use a digital version of that. I think there's that was one thing I kind of wrote down as I was prepping for our our our chat today. i But I think that you lose the immediate like kind of visceral thing of like, I'm going to hand you a piece of this puzzle. And maybe I'll hand you a piece of this puzzle and you a piece of this puzzle and you have to put them together and figure it out.
00:15:31
Speaker
it's just a little bit more, it's more immediate, it's more tactile, it's more something you're you're physically engaging with, where online you just don't necessarily get that again unless you're like FedExing stuff to people. I will offer a counterpoint that I just thought of one of the strengths of virtual games, where, although this still requires a good amount of prep,
00:15:56
Speaker
It allows you to have, I'll use an example instead of trying to voice one. Let's say you have a handout to give someone and it's in a secret code. Um, you have one player who is a monk doesn't know what this code is. You have another player who's a rogue. You can give two handouts really easily online of being like, Hey, here's one for you.
00:16:19
Speaker
Here's one for you. They'll open it. They'll start reading it and the road will have a chance to really shine and be like, Hey, I understand this. And the monk will be like, what the heck? I think you can do that in person, but I don't know why it feels like so much more work in person that it would be to do it virtually. Just sending them a link through discord. When are you playing online? It's a lot easier to just be like, boop, boop. You two get this, this link. pay strong yeah Exactly.
00:16:48
Speaker
So you run mostly virtual games. You said you have done an adventures. have Did you just do one adventures league game or like an extended campaign?
Luke's Gaming Preferences
00:17:00
Speaker
Yeah, I went to ah my friendly local game store and did when I saw that they had a adventures league thing happening came with my character sheet ready to go. And it was it was fun. It was ah a fun experience. It was really my first time playing D and&D at all. um And to sit down at a table. It was a very, you know,
00:17:18
Speaker
I feel like the the thing about the experience that I didn't really love is part of the thing i'm really I really, and especially now, and love about TTRPGs, but part of what really appealed to me was that you're going to be able to tell evolving stories and build relationships with new friends and people around this table and by engaging and telling these stories together and getting into these situations and doing all this stuff together, you're you're building those relationships as you go.
00:17:43
Speaker
And I feel like with the adventures league, it was very much like going to be a rotating cast of people every week. And I don't really know anybody. I'm not the most ah I tend to be a ah rather introverted person for most of ah most of my life. And so it was very intimidating to just go sit up with a bunch of strangers that I don't know.
00:18:00
Speaker
I don't know their vibe, I don't know what kind of games they like to play, where when now that I'm playing with like a group ongoing for the last few years, I know what I can put in front of them, usually that's gonna excite them. I know the kind of story beats that I can throw at them, and it's gonna get them so excited. I know who I can send a secret Discord message to on like a random Wednesday,
00:18:19
Speaker
and ask them a question, just phrase the right way to get their gears turning, and then see them start asking questions in the in the group chat of like, hey, so I have a question for you guys. I know the buttons to push, and it's so much fun because I i know these people, and they're my friends now, to where you know the Adventurers League, super cool, the idea you can take your character from a game to game, and it's it's really built around like one shots, which I think is ah is a skill, running one shots is a skill that I really want to be better at.
00:18:47
Speaker
my one shots all turned to three shots. But it's just it's not the kind of social piece of of the game that I really, really like when it came to that kind of that kind of play style. One shots are never I don't think I've ever run a one shot besides like when it was like a 12 hour long game. That I'm too old for that now. So you didn't really do too much adventures. Did you come against any puzzles while you played that?
00:19:16
Speaker
No, the Adventurers League game that we played, it was i can it was I remember there was like a mill tower in it. We all got like boots of flying at the end. That was like the biggest thing I remember, because I thought they were the coolest magic item. I was like, oh, my character can fly and now. This is so cool. um But no, it wasn't really puzzle-based. I think it was it was puzzle-centric in the way of a lot of of kind of D and&D adventures, where it's less puzzle and more skill checks to deduce things and from what I'm remembering of it.
00:19:45
Speaker
Um, I kind of wish I could go back and find that, find the module that we were running. Cause it was, it was cool enough. Like the story was was neat enough, but, um, it was definitely not like a lot of puzzles, uh, kind of driving the action in that one. the Yeah. D and D in my opinion has really gone away from, like, although I was rereading an old, I've been rereading old stuff recently to prep for these. Uh, and.
00:20:14
Speaker
Maybe it's just now that I, because I work in an escape room, I have a view on puzzles and D&D just does, I can't find the puzzles that I think of or like the puzzles that I make as easily and official content. How do you design your puzzles if you run puzzles for your virtual game and what's kind of your methodology for that?
Designing Online Puzzles
00:20:33
Speaker
Yeah, so it's it's ah like I said before, it's less frequent than I'd like it to be. I mean, right now playing is less frequent than I like it to be. I think we haven't played for a few months at this point, but just schedule the delightful puzzle of how to solve scheduling conflicts. But um I think that when it comes to puzzles on like when we're playing virtually, I tend to I tend like I tend to go towards the social intrigue, having, um you know, putting things happening in the world around them that I think if they know me, they know to maybe pay attention to those things and and pick up on those things or look a little bit more closely at things to see, you know, there's there's other things happening off screen maybe that are more, they can then zoom in on those things and get more information about what's happening and at a more macro scale. And so it tends to be a little bit more of like, okay, thinking through, here is here's the conflict that I have going on behind the scenes that I'm gonna be presenting to the players and the characters
00:21:27
Speaker
And then here are some of the, you know, I guess story hooks, I guess that they could pull on or clues within the world. And usually I try to make sure that anything that I'm doing is something I can put anywhere because it's like they're going to go into a shop and I'm like, well, that one shop has the one clue. And if they don't find it, well, I guess they're not solving the puzzle or they're not solving the mystery. And so I try to make it things that I can like either pick up a reskin or put elsewhere so that they still have multiple chances to solve this puzzle because that's no fun for anybody.
00:21:56
Speaker
um But I think that when I run more of like on the the rare more rare occasion that I run a more traditional puzzle, I tend to lean on our digital tools. So we use Foundry as a virtual tabletop and there are a lot of really great plugins. There are you know a lot of great tools in it for for how you can manipulate the maps. There are a lot of really great tools for things that you can have your players interact with on the maps as part of your puzzle solving piece.
00:22:25
Speaker
um It's it's one of those things that I feel like can be challenging though, because again, it really requires your players to have a level of comfort. um and access to a computer. Sometimes we have people playing from mobile devices and maybe it that doesn't really work as well with Foundry. ah We were using a VTT for a good probably a year there called One More Multiverse, which has unfortunately shut down. It was such a cool VTT. Oh, it was the best pixel art there. I wish I could just have their character builder ah because that character builder was, it was such a, they had a huge like variety of like character customizations you could have. It was just really neat.
00:22:59
Speaker
But they also, kind of like with with some of Foundry's tools, they had a lot of ways that you could give your players control over their character within the space that you have them in and have them move around and interact with stuff. And so by learning those pieces and learning those kind of digital tools that we have, I think it gives a little bit more leeway to get a little bit more of that.
00:23:19
Speaker
kind of visceral experience of here's a prop, but it's like, okay, well, here's the the map and you can move around and explore having boundaries and other things and and things for them to interact with.
00:23:30
Speaker
One more multiverse even had like navigation nodes where your character your players could like yeah interact with something. It would send them to another map or like another like level within your map. And it was pretty neat to be able to just be like, here, we mostly used it. I had their like their base of operations, and I had built it within one more multiverse. And I would just let them run amok, and they would you know pick up clothes and put them on their character and just do stuff running around here. One of my characters found a, I don't even remember where he got it, but he found a turbine and a bunch of balloons.
00:23:58
Speaker
And now every time we were in combat, his character's wearing the turban and the bunch of balloons just as they were running around in combat, which I thought was delightful. But I feel like by having those having the the those tools to hand, and I think as a lesson to myself, learning to use those tools effectively and how to present them to your players effectively in the moment can lead to a lot more satisfying puzzle engagement within your game. It's so freaking ironic that that's what you brought up.
00:24:28
Speaker
So I started using Foundry like a year and a half ago off of Roll20 because I was sick of paying Roll20 subscription fees. yeah And sorry, I do like Roll20, they're doing some great stuff, but boy subscriptions, I have enough.
00:24:43
Speaker
and So I ran a game and I just did basic stuff. I didn't check too much into it. And then my friend who was buying, he was like, Oh, like I'm thinking about running my own game. I'm going to check it out. And he buys, so it's like, Oh yeah, just check it out. Let me know. And he texts me like a week later. He's like, this is pretty much the program that I use for my other job. There's so much stuff you can do. And he's like texting me all these crazy things. I'm like, I had no idea about this. Yeah. and that really makes me wonder how can I use all these like plugins and stuff for puzzles. I think that's a very, if you're running a virtual game, you have some amazing tool that you disposal. Yeah, you just have to do a little bit of research, be prepared to do a little bit of research. and Totally. And it's like, thank you. And I think it's it's both within your VTT. But there's also like, we've got the internet, like we got the whole internet, there are puzzle generators out there. If you need to come up with like a word puzzle on the fly, you can find
00:25:39
Speaker
all kinds of great puzzle stuff. I know even ah the website, I basically used to name everything at fantasy named generators.com, which I feel like everybody knows that ah that website because it's got the most named generators you can find. They have like different kind of generators on there that will help you get puzzle assets out of it too. And so there's just all kinds of resources you can find with just searching for like interactive puzzles online. I found today a interactive version of that DaVinci's Codex where you can set the solution and all you have to do is send the link to your people and then they can solve it. like It's not as satisfying as being handed this thing across the table, but there's all kinds of stuff. but but if you're Yeah, it's it's pretty neat. And I feel like if you're
00:26:21
Speaker
ah you know i'm I'm a software developer by trade and if you start getting into that realm of I can build my own stuff it's just a matter of what skills do I have and what kind of puzzle do I want to put in front of my people so it's being able to have that whole the whole internet at your disposal there's a lot of things that you can find to present virtual puzzle pieces to your your players.
00:26:41
Speaker
I will say listeners, if you do start investigating and finding stuff to do and start learning how software develop ah and find a new career, we do accept Venmo tips for the path of life. You can send it to either one of us. Also a good note on that because I have had this own experience. If you use like a puzzle cracker, puzzle generator online, make sure you save the link for it because if you forget where you did it and then you have to crack your own puzzle, yeah your life becomes a little bit harder.
00:27:19
Speaker
Absolutely. Or you, you lose the link and you have to re-Google, you know, if it's, it's probably in your history, but I've definitely panicked in the middle of a game. And I'm just sitting there, re-Googling things versus looking at my history and making it easy on myself. I was like, where did I find that one thing? And you have to dig down through three pages of Google results instead. You do a lot of solo RPGs, you design them, everyone remember, drive through RPG, great console press, go check them out. Uh, middle of the episode plug. Uh,
00:27:48
Speaker
yeah One of the reasons I was excited for this interview is because I would have no idea how to do a puzzle for a solo TTRPG. I don't know how I would design it for someone to like do on their own. Do you have any thoughts of if you're putting together a game for someone for a single player TTRPG, how would you do a puzzle in that?
Solo TTRPG Puzzle Challenges
00:28:15
Speaker
it's It's tough because when you're playing a TTRPG solo, whether it's a game made to be played solo or you're using something like a... I love the Mythic Game Master emulator for taking um collaborative games and making them solo games. um It's hard because you're both the Game Master and the player and so the idea of like, I'm gonna solve this puzzle but I also know what the puzzle is and the solution is and Puzzles are are one of the areas where it's a little bit hard to maintain that um that verisimilitude of, I don't really know, but I do know. But I don't know because a puzzle is usually something that the players themselves are tending to be the ones engaging with versus just their characters. it you know There are certain puzzles that do require you to be like, oh, my character only knows this.
00:29:03
Speaker
I may know all of this, but this doesn't come into play with the puzzle. And I'm just going to set that aside and only you know play as my character. When you're both the GM and the player, it's hard to like figure out where that line is in a satisfying way. um It's something I've been playing ah ah playing with a little bit lately. I think there is um there is room in the solo tabletop role playing game toolbox for things like procedurally generated tools.
00:29:28
Speaker
where you're you know having something that's like you know a maze generator or um you know working with generated riddles or ciphers or other types of puzzles that, based on you know ideally, if they have multiple solutions, I think is is usually a really satisfying way to go about that. Because otherwise, it's just pass or fail. And I could have done that with the dice roll. um you know it's it's it is ah It's a challenging thing. And I think it's something that I have not personally seen um solved in a really deeply satisfying way. um I think really one of the areas that I've tended to try to do it um with you know some fun and some mixed results is using something like the Mythic Game Master Emulators' ah fate chart to say, okay, i'm I'm looking at this puzzle, I am trying something in order
00:30:17
Speaker
to make something happen within the scope of this puzzle, whether it's like action or some sort of social scene. um And then you can say, you know, go through that narrative of I do X, Y and Z, if there's any skill roles that are involved to figure out how well you do something or how that contributes to the puzzle. But I think by using something like that, where you are are using like a chart to say, you know, I'm going to roll the dice and is it is it a yes or is it a no? Is it a yes with complications or a no with complications?
00:30:45
Speaker
you know, the whole range of of potential solutions to see how is the thing that I'm doing advancing towards the solution of this puzzle. And then you can say, okay, great, this one thing worked. Now what else, what do I want to try next to solve the puzzle? And, um, you know, it's, it's, it's a little bit clunky. It feels like the few times I've done it because it's like, okay, well, I, you know, how do I know the puzzle is solved? Is it a puzzle that I, yeah I've kind of just come up with myself and threw it in front of myself and I don't, I don't really know how I would solve it. I think those are the most fun, fun ones to put in front of your players half the time too. Cause then they come up with solutions that you never would have thought of.
00:31:22
Speaker
but I digress. I think ah it is it is one of those things where you have to be very um you really have to engage with that solo mindset of like okay I'm going to not know the solution to this and see how my character approaches the situation because otherwise it's just like it's playing Monopoly by yourself not that I have heard of that as a kid but it's playing Monopoly by yourself where you're like I know what's going to happen I'm just rolling dice at this point but that's interesting you you brought up something twice actually now of puzzles. Sometimes the solutions that you think are not actually the solutions that are, I don't want to use the word kosher, but I guess kosher, yeah you know, especially with like riddles. I don't know how many times that I've put a riddle in front of my players and been like, this is the answer. And then my riddles are like, we came up with the word donkey and it works.
00:32:16
Speaker
is' like a a donkey has an ass. And I'm just like, as in person with a multiple group, I can be like, okay, fine. Yep. Great job. It's donkey. Yep. You nailed it. a Solo play. I don't know why, but that would, that would be definitely difficult to do. I think, I think when it comes to certainly that like a satisfying puzzle experience,
00:32:40
Speaker
It's just really one of those things that I think it benefits from having a situation of like, okay, you're you're you're in a room and the ceiling is slowly coming down and you have three switches on the wall or whatever whatever the the mechanic is. i just My brain was going to the um ah trash compactor in Star Wars for some reason of like, You know, how are you going to solve this situation? And maybe there is like some sort of mechanical puzzle within this room that you have to solve. I think when you, when you're working through like pre pre-written adventures as a solo player, you kind of, you have to choose how you're really going to engage with those, those puzzle-esque things. Because again, as the DM, you probably know what's coming. You know what the answer is. You have the flavor text all around this thing telling you, here's what's going on.
00:33:27
Speaker
And so you kind of have to choose like what what are those you're going to take into your solo game with you. I think more of an open-ended situation where it's like, okay, well, how can I creatively engage with this encounter, whatever it is, and what kind of creative solutions can I come up with? And does that feel satisfying to me as a player and and as a solo player? Then great, it worked out. Applause, applause, applause, because you're really just trying to satisfy yourself there when it comes to solo gaming. so You know, it's it's a hard line to walk of I want the full experience, but I'm also playing by myself. And so you're only going to be able to get certain parts of that or come up with creative ways to engage with those parts.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah, I oftentimes when I think of solo RPGs and TTRPs, I think of the choose your own adventure things, ah which I think could be very useful for puzzles, but also really can lessen the puzzle in a way. Like if you're reading like, Oh, you've come to this chamber and the walls are closing in. he And then at the bottom of the page, it says there, like, which button do you press in like a real game? Not That's the wrong choice of words. In a multiplayer game, yeah you would you know do an investigation. The other players would start looking around. But to have it like kind of just presented to you right then and there, I think kind of lessens the puzzle in a way. ah But it could also be good training.
00:34:54
Speaker
Totally. Yeah, I think it it is rough. I think with solo games, you can you can railroad yourself really quickly when it comes to certain games where it's like, it's ah it's an exact experience you just described. You read the description and it's like, do you choose A, B, or C? And it's like, well, I guess those are the only options and it's, I guess I'm gonna find out what happens next if I choose B. And it removes a lot of that like openness of choice. It's that it's the Baldur's Gate 3 experience where you go into this game and more than any other video game you've played, you can do,
00:35:23
Speaker
not anything but you could do such a wide range of things that nobody would ever expect to do in a video game and that's part of the fun like that's part of the excitement I can go into a ah game of a tabletop role-playing game with my friends and we'll be walking down the street and I can randomly decide I'm in a cast message and whisper something creepy in someone's ear down the street and see what happens Again, not that I've ever done that to my Game Master in that game, but ah you know you you can do those things. And so it's like kicking the hornet's nest and see what happens. And you don't necessarily get that in the same way in a solo game. I think it takes a lot of suspension of disbelief. And I think it takes a lot of um finding tools and and that that work well for you that feel satisfying. like I always come back to that myth at Game Master emulator. It's such a good way to introduce
00:36:11
Speaker
ah random elements and chaos. And it's the the question of like, you know, can I want to get an answer to this question, rather than just answering myself or just rolling a d20. It I get to have a different way of interpreting what might be happening as a result. And it becomes a lot more satisfying. But again, back to puzzles, it's, it's kind of hard to apply that because of just the very structure of a puzzle benefits from you not knowing the answer already. And if you know the answer, it's just your it's like playing I again, it goes takes me back to playing Warcraft two and having the cheat codes. And once you start using those cheat codes are real fun for the first five minutes. And then you realize, well, I've got, ah you know, an army of airships, and I guess I'm just gonna go blow up the other base now. And it's not as fun. That was really good Sims, just constantly spying money and Sims. And yeah, I have this great house. Well, what was the point? I just decided to house him.
00:37:05
Speaker
learning the ah the the rosebud exclamation point semicolon exclamation point semicolon to where you can essentially do it as many times as you want and then you've got millions of simoleons. I spent a lot of time playing that game, my goodness. I had a Mac so growing up so that was the only game for Mac really.
00:37:27
Speaker
It's ironic you bring up the message and the whisper thing, because again, that's something that I've done to my, my players did that to me. And it was so much fun because I just pretty much they did to an NPC and that drove the NPC mad and suddenly there's a new BBEG.
00:37:45
Speaker
Oh my goodness. it was there was a We were playing Waterdeep Dragon Heist. was It was the first real game I had played. It was the first like full campaign I had played. this was At the very beginning of the pandemic, I went on to a Discord chat and it was kind of like a find find a group to play with kind of thing. And somebody on on there was like, hey, I'm going to run a game for new players and to kind of be able to play the game for the first time.
00:38:09
Speaker
Is anybody interested and I raise my hand and we got into this group and I'm you know, four years later playing with most of those people still it was so much fun. But we're playing Waterdeep Dragon Heist and at one point there's like a building and in the piers burns down and a bunch of people die in it. And there's this, we go into the the graveyard in Waterdeep and there's this woman that's kind of rich looking noble woman in morning clothes going around and placing something that we can't see at these different gravestones. And I thought she was being suspicious and because of all these other clues that we're circling around, I thought she was the one who burned down the pier to kill her husband and collect the insurance money.
00:38:45
Speaker
And so I was like, I did something where I was like whispering, I sent message to her a couple times and it was just like, I know you did it. I know you killed them, that kind of thing. And she got super freaked out and ran away. And I mean, right after we found out, she was like,
00:38:57
Speaker
placing coins at their gravestones for their families to come get. And I was like, oh, she actually didn't kill any of those people. And I just terrorized a little old lady in a tabletop role playing game for no reason other than just the fun of it. But that's just like the kind of fun. thing Oh, that's actually a really good point because she would definitely pull something like that on me. But that's just like the fun part of tabletop role playing games is you can do something wildly out of pocket like that and also just be super wrong. And the failures and those wrong moments are always what make the game so much more fun. The big successes and epic moments are really great. But all of the failures that it takes in the weird situations that put you put yourself in, it's just that's where to me all like the storytelling meat is. Like I love getting into those parts, like a failed role, like a natural one in so many situations is way more satisfying than a natural 20. And maybe that's just me as the DM, but
00:39:53
Speaker
Oh, great. I love good old message and whispering and driving. Oh, yeah. Crazy. And I do love that the D and&D is just so you can be so out of pocket. ah And there are always a little consequences and always those successes. I was always I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how I could get my character to have um it wasn't message. It was ah it's the one where you can send it to anybody anywhere.
00:40:18
Speaker
I forget what the spell name is called. ah A jester from Critical Role famously used it to great effect where you can say like 25 words to somebody anywhere on any plane. I forget what that that stupid spell is called, but I was trying to figure out how I could get my sorcerer who did not have that on any spell lists that, and I'm pretty sure that I got a number of no's because she knew how much chaos I would probably cause in the campaign. I was able to send messages to anybody anywhere.
00:40:45
Speaker
I'm definitely so much chaos. On the note of chaos, I think it's time to see if you can solve some dungeon problems. Oh, Lord.
Classic D&D Puzzle Attempt
00:40:53
Speaker
Here we go. Here we go.
00:41:05
Speaker
Are you ready for this? All right, we have two puzzles for you. One I created myself and one that's officially taken from a source. Which one would you like to tackle first? ah Let's take the official source one first. Oh, I think this is the first time anyone went with the official source one. I thought it might be from when I've listened to the show before. And I'm like, I just gotta, I gotta spin this around a little bit. Keep them on your toes. I like it.
00:41:30
Speaker
Today's puzzle is from 3.5. The book of challenges. This is an official book that came out of dungeon rooms, puzzles, and traps. Uh, very fun. Uh, if you ever, you can get it for pretty cheap, but you would have to, if you run five E make some changes based on the stuff. So this is going to be an example of something that could be.
00:41:58
Speaker
Definitely fun to do a handout for, but obviously we don't have a handout today. Let me get to the right page. I'll go check my mailbox. perfect California's site not too expensive. I shipped a mic to a friend there and it wasn't too bad. There's definitely, if you plan it ahead, shipping stuff to people, well-being expensive can be an average, ah not too bad, but Definitely try and plan it for like the campaign. But today's puzzle, you have come to a large iron door. It has no features except for a message carved into its face in large letters. These letters all stand on a grid, a grid. So each one is on its own individual square.
00:42:56
Speaker
The message reads a great treasure lies here under a curse and only those but Those may enter who provide the cure So listeners you won't be able to see this but I'll show a picture maybe else now I always say I'm gonna share but It's a great iron door with this grid cut out in the center of it. And each letter is on an individual square. You've come to the store and do you have to pass. I, so my, I, you know, my brain goes to the ah breaking, I love word puzzles. And so I feel like that was a good, this is a good one to start with because I love like riddles and word based puzzles.
00:43:43
Speaker
Because they're always so like pedantic and specific. um i My first thought would be, depending on what my character's skill set was, it's saying that the the treasure lies under a curse and I must provide a cure. If I look at that grid centered right underneath the word curse, there is a blank square.
00:44:04
Speaker
And I would try casting some sort of like healing magic or cure wounds, magic or curative magic in that specific space to see if that did anything to the door. Okay. I would say you have, uh, you have cure boobs. Typically I'll say you're traveling with a party. Your Claire has cure wounds and healing word. Which one would you like to do on it?
00:44:32
Speaker
Mmm, it would probably be based on the wording. I would use cure wounds because it's less of a healing a wound and more a cure and so well in cure wounds is kind of the same thing but based on the wording that's the the spell I would probably use Okay, there's but and The door explodes and my party's dead
00:44:55
Speaker
but So you're relatively new to D and&D. Old D&D used to be that brutal. It used to really be, you know, you mess up and you're dead. This one's less brutal. So your Claire goes up with his with their cure wounds. It is a touch spell and this is why I asked. They go to touch that empty space and you all hear a click as if that square is a button.
00:45:22
Speaker
and you see the radiant magic go into this button and electricity comes out and shocks the cleric for 1d8 plus one electricity damage they're probably relatively fine their hair is standing up all frizzled but then the button that they press that gap in between underneath that you saw it pops back out What would happen if they then try their non-touch spell of the same healing variety? Nothing happens. It doesn't take effect because it has to be on a creature. Oh, that's a really good point. the details ah those little Those little pedantic details of the spell. Absolutely. Man, under a curse. What were the what was the wording of the the puzzle one more time? A great treasure lies here.
00:46:15
Speaker
under a curse and only those may enter who provide the cure.
00:46:27
Speaker
Man, this is this is one of those I feel like a a player who's getting very quickly getting stumped. I need to have a ah team of four people around me coming with more ideas too. um Yeah,
00:46:39
Speaker
i would love to invite. So like bring your friends and family to solve the puzzles. Maybe someday I'll have an entire episode of like, just people trying to solve these puzzles together. That mean fun that would be that would be a lot of fun. Yeah. No, I i just feel like, okay, so they're the, at least that that square of the grid is a button. I'm imagining that if I went up and pushed any of the buttons that might happen, but I don't want to shock another member of my party. They've been warned away from that a little bit.
00:47:06
Speaker
I will say you do with that kind of realization, you realize that each of these grids is a button. They all can be pressed in, so. Then I would find within outside of that last line, potentially looking to see if I would be able to push C-U-R-E. Oh no, on the word curse.
00:47:32
Speaker
Pushing C-U-R-E and not touching S and spelling the word cure under the curse. Or I guess on top of the curse, maybe. Do you get shocked four times instead?
00:47:47
Speaker
okay Well, unfortunately that is what happens. You get shocked four times. You're a cleric, rogue, monk, and barbarian.
00:47:59
Speaker
are looking frazzled, like they just, uh, got into the home, home alone house. Hmm. So they're pushable buttons. I have to provide the cure and it's under. Treasure lies here under a curse.
00:48:26
Speaker
Hmm.
00:48:30
Speaker
I mean, i then I go to trying to dispel, would I be able to, if my cleric has the ability to to dispel a curse?
00:48:43
Speaker
instead of curing magic and that saying, if it's a non, i know' I actually don't know if this is a touch spell or not, to ah to cure a curse and do it on that same square under the word curse. Because I keep coming back to that how that that one square is just so perfectly centered under a curse.
00:49:04
Speaker
So, i don't based on your expression, I don't think I just did it.
00:49:12
Speaker
I, so here's, here's, you did not do the official way. I would say partially as a DM, I might make that a solution because it all kind of falls into, is this an actual cursed door or is this like a mechanical arcane trap? Rules as when? It is an arcane trap. It is not a cursed door. But I do like that thought.
00:49:41
Speaker
It's very it's kind of the speak friend and enter solution to this puzzle. Yeah. ah Yes.
00:49:49
Speaker
Hmm. Okay. And so now I got to know what the actual solution was but because you were a clearly a benevolent and dungeon master and allowing that to potentially be the solution, which honestly, I always, I also say kind of tied to that idea of how that the openness of these systems and these storytelling moments, like sometimes granted, this may not have been one of those times, but sometimes your players come up with a solution to these puzzles and I'm just like, I never would have thought of that. So yeah, that's now the solution and you win. Good job.
00:50:20
Speaker
Especially if they're struggling. don Yeah. Uh, let's, let's give you one more, one more shot to see if you can solve this with this little piece of information, uh, a little over the table. You were very close with one of your solutions.
00:50:35
Speaker
ah
00:50:40
Speaker
Man, I should have. And, you know, I always love having the barbarian have a moment of thought. and your barbarians going to speak up right now and go, huh, curse and cure. So close, so close. Let's see, but I already pushed. What if I push the word cure instead of curse? That's probably not it either. So close, so close. Because they are obviously very close words. They're literally one letter off.
00:51:18
Speaker
course I'm gonna I'm gonna go on the dungeon problems podcast not be able to solve the puzzle oh I I think that that might be my final answer is the barbarian has that moment of thought and then everybody hangs their heads Charlie Brown silent kicks the dust and walks away because I don't know so you're gonna you're gonna try and press all four where it says cure yes Yes. That's sure what they're going to do. The barbarian says that and everybody goes, yeah, let's do it. All right. You know what? And we have four players, the barbarian, rogue, cleric. I don't remember the one.
00:52:02
Speaker
Your clerk goes up and presses the C on a cure, gets electrocuted and dies. I mean, of course it was the cleric. Now they can't bring anybody back to life.
00:52:15
Speaker
I always kill the cleric. Man, that's a good puzzle, though. I feel like I'm going to have to yeah grab a copy of that book and steal it. What was the solution? I got to know. I got to know. We're going to call it this a 50-50 win right there. Inventive solution. And technically, some of your characters are still alive. It was pressing the S of curse. Under a curse. You have to turn the curse into a cure.
00:52:40
Speaker
Okay. Okay. That, that makes sense because you're, again, you're taking, it's like the op literally the opposite of what I tried to do of pushing the word cure in curse versus just excluding the word S. Okay. a now That's another time that I was, I was like, Hmm, which I think the only reason why I wouldn't count that as a win, even though I do like that, turning the cure into the curse.
00:53:07
Speaker
It's because it's not like jeopardy where you can press multiples and then they all turn. It's very much says once a button is pressed, electrical shock comes out. Gotcha. So you can only press one button at a time. ah I think one thing that I would do as a DM if I were to run this is change up the words a little bit oh to give it a little bit more of a clue that you want to remove something. Yeah. You know, be like,
00:53:36
Speaker
those may enter who like provide the cure and remove the curse or something like that. Totally. but i also think that i am This experience to me really drives home the idea that part of the fun of puzzles is that sometimes you don't solve them. Sometimes they just don't work out. Like it's, it's the same thing with challenges and games at all. Like if, if I just won every puzzle every time, which I i'm don't usually do, uh, despite really enjoying word puzzles, it's just not, then there's no challenge there. It's like the, it's the yeah the rosebud cheat in the Sims again, where if you just always win every time, then winning doesn't mean anything and it's not as fun anymore.
00:54:19
Speaker
That is one reason why it is very important to make it not be a do all end all sort of thing. Many people have brought that up here. If solving the puzzle is the only way to continue, then you're done. And that's not how it's at life. You have a problem in life.
00:54:36
Speaker
hu You keep going on, you know, hopefully, knock on wood. If you're struggling with something in life, please reach out to someone. You know, because there's always multiple solutions and multiple things you can do. Yeah, absolutely.
00:54:54
Speaker
this is Let's get your puzzle. This one's gonna stump me even more. I love it. This one I came up with, I need to stop coming up with my puzzles the day of the interview because, and you know what, it's more fun because I know it more intimate intimately on that day. That's a good point.
Original Puzzle Challenge
00:55:13
Speaker
You've come to a very strange chamber. It's either the home of an entomologist or the home of a cancer mage, which is a 3.5 class that was all about bugs and disease.
00:55:30
Speaker
It's a circular chamber with three alcoves in it. One alcove is completely dominated by spider web with a giant spider crawling throughout it. Another one is kind of like a zoo exhibit with a glass pane on it where you can see two giant Hercules beetles roaming around and eating.
00:55:53
Speaker
And then the wall opposite, the alcove opposite is just a stone wall with a glass window on it where you can see a multi-tiered ant farm. Going through this chamber, you come to a door that is locked. Right next to it is a small little stone keypad with buttons numbered one through nine.
00:56:27
Speaker
Now, one of the things I will say, 3.5 earlier editions were very much, here's everything. I find five e-puzzles and puzzles that we're more creating nowadays are, here's a good amount, but there's still, it does rely on checks and stuff like that. Yeah, completely.
00:56:50
Speaker
Numbers one through nine on the keypad. There is an alcove dominated by a spider web with a big spider. There's the glass enclosure with the two Hercules beetles crawling around and eating. And then there's the ant farm in the other alcove. And the numbers one through nine.
00:57:11
Speaker
does ah Does it give any indication of how many numbers I'm needing to put in or is just, there's no like screen on there that's like put in four numbers. I like that. Give me an investigation check as you examine.
00:57:29
Speaker
I'm on my dice. This is my my super cool ah Emerald Templars dice that I got for backing that Kickstarter. Let's see. I get A1. Oh, no.
00:57:45
Speaker
First Nat 1 of the entire podcast, woo! That is an honor I will accept gladly.
00:57:55
Speaker
Trumpets with a Nat 1. Unfortunately, you don't see anything like a and like a screen or anything like that or like a code thing. You just see these buttons.
00:58:16
Speaker
What if I just, I'm gonna send one of my, well, of the party, or if it's just me, I'm gonna go up and just push the numbers one, two, three. All right. You press the buttons one, two, three. Give me a perception check as you do that. Ooh, I got an eight. I'll take an eight. It's better than a one. Okay. One, two, three. You do that.
00:58:44
Speaker
you don't hear any noise, nothing seems to happen. But as your fingers trail over the buttons, you feel these weird indents along the buttons. Taking a closer look, you see that there are little like carvings of ants on the buttons.
00:59:09
Speaker
If I go over and take a peek, it's at our little ant colony. Do I notice anything about a pattern in the shape of this ant colony that I can see through the glass that might, oh, I don't know, overlay nicely onto a grid of buttons? Okay, you're looking at this ant farm. And this is one thing that a nice photo I was going to do a little handout, but this is a kind of It's an audio medium. yeah You're looking at this class and this is a multi-tiered ant farm going from the top. It's a massive wall with like ah over a dozen kind of sections to it. Looking at kind of a pattern, seeing if it matches the grid. You don't quite see that, but you do notice that all of the chambers are on different levels. There are four.
01:00:05
Speaker
kind of levels of these chambers that the ants are carving and digging out. So we've got one spider, two Hercules beetles, and four ant chambers, but on the keypad the numbers have indentations of ants on them. Yes.
01:00:28
Speaker
I mean, the simplest thing that comes to mind, especially since I didn't get electrocuted by said keypad, what if I just go up and hit the number four? You hit the number four and nothing happens. Okay. Okay. So what if I did, so I, I'm now starting to, you know I will, I will.
01:00:53
Speaker
because I work with keypads all the times. When you hit the number four, you hear just by the door, of the and a little red light appears above the door. Gotcha. Okay. So now I'm starting to break this down because it seems to be a numerical puzzle. And clearly the clues are in obviously the bugs, the only actual engaging thing within the room. And I coming back to the number of insects in these different enclosures. And so instead of just four, what if I hit four to one?
01:01:28
Speaker
Okay. ah You don't hear any beeping. You don't see a red light. ah You don't see a green light either. And I will say after doing that, you think to yourself, okay, you did see one giant spider. You saw two giant Hercules. There are millions of ants. There are, it's, they're not giant ants. There are four kind of picture, like an ant farm where they have like their little cave systems. There are millions of ants inside. There are four kind of go hit the button that has millions on it. Clearly. what
01:02:05
Speaker
old Hmm, okay. What if, ah what do I notice anything anything different about if I go up and do the same kind of examination of obviously not too close to said spider, but of the spider and the beetles? Do I notice anything maybe clue worthy in these spaces? Give me an investigation check.
01:02:30
Speaker
See, I just accidentally dropped my diet a little bit ago and I got a 19, but I'm sure I won't get that this time. I got a six. You don't see anything interesting about these. Okay.
01:02:51
Speaker
Man, this is ah this is a good one.
01:02:57
Speaker
my my ants my spider with the web and there's nothing enclosing the spider there's two Hercules beetles behind glass and then we've got our ant four sections of ant farms with lots of ants inside each section of so it's like top section second top third top bottom has uh different systems of caves in them. So it kind of creates like a tree going down. The bottom section only has one cave in it and you can see the queen in there.
01:03:42
Speaker
feel like that I hear I hear the words you're saying and I feel like in my brain I'm like Luke he just gave you a really great clue and then I think hmm and I am i'm I'm struggling here this is a this is a good one and if there were just throw in the ceiling is slowly collapsing down onto you the longer you take to solve this puzzle and suddenly I'm about to die So one of the things I find most helpful with puzzles in my escape room and in D&D is take a moment, if you can, if the ceiling's not collapsing down on you, to go over what you know already.
01:04:20
Speaker
yeah So this is one thing we're being applied. I'll be another player with you. So if you investigate the buttons and what did we find on the buttons?
01:04:33
Speaker
ah Well, we found this, the indentations of ants, and we found that pushing the number four on its own got a red light to turn on, a reaction from the door, if not the reaction we're looking for. Okay.
01:04:48
Speaker
now
01:04:51
Speaker
Now... So you previously pressed three buttons, then you pressed one button, and something happened, then you pressed three again.
01:05:02
Speaker
and And nothing happens. So I'm looking for a single digit that at least see then my brain then goes to I'm either I'm not looking for a single digit because then I could just push all the buttons one by one and that would solve the puzzle. I'm looking for a specific combination of buttons and in a certain order clearly as ah as if a code for said door. How many digits do you think that could be based on what you've already done?
01:05:34
Speaker
It's not going to be one and it's not going to, I don't think it's going to be three. I, for some reason I keep coming to a four digit number with the number four is going to be at the end because when I pushed four, I went, um but I could be completely wrong there.
01:05:51
Speaker
And we also have the detail about the ant farms, the four sections with the branches.
01:06:02
Speaker
And I would count there's one main cave on the bottom. Can I count how many branches with are in that structure on each section going up? I'm guessing the top is going to have four.
01:06:19
Speaker
So the top section has nine chambers that contain food, leaves, roots, berries, sugar cubes, peanut butter.
01:06:31
Speaker
ah These nine sections trickle down to six chambers where the ants appear to be sleeping and living. They have little little cots and little blankets that are making afghans and all that. Then the they circle down to the third like level where there are two chambers where you can see the little young of the ants and then those go down to the singular queen chamber down at the bottom.
01:07:02
Speaker
And now the question then says that I come to is there's an order to these four numbers that I'm not just gonna have my my characters go up and start mashing numbers, which I would probably end up doing if I were in the cave, just like be Stewie from Family Guy trying every phone number real quick. So we've got one with the queen. What was on the side? The one right up from the queen, because it was the sleeping quarters and the food on top. Two quarters for the babies on the second.
01:07:32
Speaker
then six for where the ants are living, and then nine where all their food is stored. Because if your pantry isn't bigger than your entire house, what are you doing? I would try.
01:07:51
Speaker
I would I think I would go 9126. I would go to the door and put 9126 just because of a vague feeling of Like life cycle, you eat, the queen has babies and the babies grow and then you live. I'm thinking life cycle here. So you put the nine in and you hear the beep beep and a red light come on. Okay. And I'll say your, uh, your rogue says, well, cause we just put in three numbers before.
01:08:27
Speaker
So that additional number right there zeroed out the thing. Mm hmm. So you put in the line and beep. Well, then once once it goes beep beep, then I would just restart again and do it again. That was a very good little detail you threw in there. And I would have if I were playing in this game, I would have not have caught that because in my brain, I'm like, well, I put in the numbers and it restarted, but that's genius. So what code do you put in there? I would now that it's been reset, do 9 1 2 6.
01:09:02
Speaker
You hear two double beeps and a red light ah appears. Two double beeps and a red light. Oh, so I've i've put in the wrong code. Got it. ah Then I would try, I mean, 1269. Because 69 has to be in the the so the solution of any puzzle that I'm putting in front of people. You put in 1269. You hear singular beeps.
01:09:32
Speaker
The light turns green and the door opens. Man, I was really open to the order of those numbers. Absolutely. But honestly, that doesn't like the yeah, that is such a good thing though, because you can start with a simple thing of like, okay, well there's clearly an order of numbers here.
01:09:50
Speaker
But by putting it in such a way and you you are already putting players in a place where they're overthinking things and they're starting to think like, oh, how am I going to approach this? It's got to be some arcane thing. And there's going to be something I'm going down like the life cycle of ants like had nothing to do with the answer. But here I am trying to figure out what the puzzle would be when it's really just like the order of from the bottom top ah in ah in ascending order. Starting with the queen. I like that, though, because Another previous guest of mine mentioned his favorite puzzle game was Portal. ah Where as you play it, you learn new things. You're the game constantly built on what you can do. yeah You start off and you're like, okay, great. I can shoot a portal from here to here. Then I can shoot a portal from there to there and loop it like this. So it constantly built. So one of the things I'd be curious to do as a player, as a DM is
01:10:45
Speaker
start learning puzzles like that where it is just like that but then adding a little more on top of it being like okay well great you already know that the order matters you already know that you're looking for something that matches but now you have to know hey there's a little bit of information about the life cycle advance now you have to put that all together Yeah. That was really cool. That was, and that was a great puzzle. I really, I feel like both of those were really fun. I think I liked yours a little bit more than the the grid door. Uh, just because it's, ah especially if you're putting that depending on the, yeah, it's a depending on, especially if you're in like a dungeon or you're facing off against like, there's other bug theme things in there. Such an interesting, evocative thing to go in and explore as a player.
01:11:29
Speaker
And I will let you know, you were very good because you solved it. If you'd gotten one more wrong in it, the glass would have shattered and all the insects would have come out and that would have caused trauma for everyone involved. Emotional damage. There's, I really like puzzles with unseen danger because that makes it more fun, but also then your players are like, oh no.
01:11:53
Speaker
Like the and the unexpected is always a fun part where it's you're you think, oh, well, those ants are safely behind the glass. And despite the fact that they're knitting Afghans, they're just normal ants, right? and No, not right. And those Hercules beetles and those spiders are coming for you. The ants are really all silver dragons. Great, great, great, great, great. That would absolutely happen to me.
Favorite Myst Series Puzzles
01:12:32
Speaker
Well, now it's time to ask you, what has been your favorite puzzle in all your life? what What puzzle sticks with you? So you you had mentioned that you were going to have to ask me this question. And I immediately had that feeling of cold sweat panic, of like, have I ever solved a puzzle in my life? When have I ever seen a puzzle? Have I ever played a video game? There's there's no puzzles. have i And then I thought, I started thinking back. OK, calm down, Luke. Stop sweating. um it's not It's not the end of the world here. And then I realized there there's, I really enjoy
01:13:07
Speaker
the kind of cerebral games that put puzzles in front of you. And so I feel like very quickly after I started thinking, OK, video games, um I really landed on um the the Myst series, Myst and Riven. And there's a third one that I've never played. ah But the just the like the way that those games, especially for being the time that they came out and the technology and graphics that we had, I know that they just got re-released in like a fully realized 3D world and it looks really cool. But the idea that you're going to go to this island
01:13:41
Speaker
And you're going to start flipping some switches here and that might have done something somewhere else and so it really takes you time of experimentation and understanding of like how are these systems related to each other may change something here like based on what kind of mechanics I'm in engaging with what might that do over here.
01:13:58
Speaker
and It was one of those things that I really, especially, you know, I played, I played these games pretty young. They were, my brother was the one who bought these games. And then I was like, I'm going to play those too. And I would like for the first couple, maybe years, I would like, I'm going to install mist and I'm going to play mist again. Cause I thought the blue and the red books were cool. And what a cool idea of like, you know, being a avid reader my whole life, the idea that these books are like portals into other worlds and.
01:14:22
Speaker
and just such a cool, like, world building war around it. And then I feel like it finally, it gave me the opportunity to take a step back and be like, have a little patience with it to not be so like, I'm going to do this thing in the video games, where you get the instant gratification, ah you know, playing Doom, or, ah you know, all these games where you're getting that instant gratification, I do a thing and the thing happens, and maybe there's puzzles, but they're pretty simple.
01:14:47
Speaker
And to to take a step back and appreciate the way that it's, it's not just the puzzle, but it's the whole world is the puzzle. And you're solving these like building mechanics and these things that are so interrelated. And from one, like, especially when you get into Riven where it's like you're in one world and then you go to another and they're still interconnected and the puzzles and stories build on each other. I just thought they were such a great.
01:15:11
Speaker
yeah ah Honestly, the puzzles were so were were amazing. It was almost more the world building for me and the story around everything and how it really allowed the puzzles to drive a lot of that world building, a lot of how you're learning more about this place and how you're interacting and building your your understanding of how to get around this place. i just i Such a classic set of games.
01:15:33
Speaker
and such a hard set of puzzles because man some of those puzzles were so freaking hard and there are definitely I could go back and play it and I'm sure I would still need to look up certain things and be like how the hell do I solve this puzzle like I'm gonna go into this place and flip these switches I'm trying to turn on power in this place I forget how to do that and it's just you think back to those times before we really had the internet and it's like how the hell did I get very far on this game without being able to look things up I actually just got missed a little while ago. yeah I had it as a kid just like you. And it's really, again, this is the third time now you've brought something up that completely pertains to my life. yeah I just saw a video on TikTok of the virtual reality missed when like the gondolas arrive and then take you from one island to the next and I won't lie. I almost hurled watching this video on TikTok. TikTok because it was just so so quick. And I was just like, oh my God, how is someone playing this? I would iveve been really one i have Oculus Quest, the the second generation. And i ah you know I bought it because I want to build VR stuff and and codes of VR games and things. But I really, really had that idea of like, it would be really great to get missed on this thing and be able to play and be able to like,
01:16:56
Speaker
Step into this world because when you spend so much time playing it and it's very much like you click on the left and you're you're just looking at a different static scene and some things might be dynamic within that scene but it's very like you're looking through a viewport and the idea of like putting on my goggles and be able to like look around this place I just it.
01:17:15
Speaker
From a fully nostalgia perspective just sounds so so so cool. But yeah, there are definitely I don't get motion sick very easily. But ah there are some of those experiences. There's one there's a mini golf game that you can you you move around. And it's like I took off the the the motion sickness sensitive mode and started walking around on my own. And I within 10 minutes felt like my eyes were crossed like I need to take these goggles off.
01:17:41
Speaker
Back during COVID, my friends got huge into it. And like, I i do boxing on it. Sometimes I do like Beat Saber and other things. and My friends like, come play this, you know, first person shooter game. I loaded up the tutorial. I took like one step. I was like, nope, I'm sitting down. I already feel like I'm gonna just like fall off the edge of a boat. yeah But Myst, you are right. Myst is such an iconic game.
01:18:11
Speaker
that really is so puzzle heavy and really does a great job building you into the game and yeah making you want to solve it. When you start knowing like nothing, you start knowing nothing about this world and then by engaging in these puzzles and seeing their effect and like learning more about you learn more about the world by playing with those mechanics in the game. And I just thought it's such a a good example of a very specific kind of game design that you can totally take a lot of those lessons and use them anywhere in any kind of game. And it's just very, very well done, very enduring series.
01:18:47
Speaker
I now kind of want to make a D and&D dungeon based off Myst. Oh yeah. No, if you, I feel like that is having that, the, you'd have to approach it interestingly because the, the, uh, I feel like the flow of getting your party around the dungeon to go back to places, you kind of have to be able to have those like scene jumps a little bit and and make that feel satisfying. But I think it could, I think it could work really, really well. Cause those types of puzzle mechanics and and concepts I think are pretty universal.
01:19:17
Speaker
Oh, my friends, thank you so much for listening today.
Conclusion and Promotions
01:19:21
Speaker
You spent another hour and 18 plus minutes listening to us talk about puzzles and who knows, maybe the next thing from Grey Castle Press will be a a missed solo adventure. no e walk My guest today has been the amazing, just simple, amazing Luke from Grey Castle Press.
01:19:45
Speaker
Luke, where can they find you? What what are you doing? Yeah, you can you can find ah pretty much everything about Grey Castle Press at greycastlepress.com. I've been putting out a new a monthly newsletter recently and finally actually doing email regularly recently. But like I said, you can find all my games there. You can find what I'm working on, my new game, Stargazer, and some info on my other projects. And you can you know find me on TikTok and Instagram. And ah Threads is probably my social network of choice these days. I'm always interacting with folks on there, so.
01:20:20
Speaker
right I don't use threats enough. I really do. It was very nice. It's so good. so good ah I mean, anything's better than Twitter. But yeah, that's not a low bar. Low bar.
01:20:31
Speaker
ah very low park the theme song that y'all heard at the beginning was done by the dungeon maestro on tiktok instagram and threads he's on threads as well go check him out he's doing he actually just sent me a link he's doing a comic book as well so go check out the dungeon maestro uh check out luke as well and you you follow him as well oh absolutely his his work is great and the fact that he did your theme song i think is always a a very uh a big thumbs up i think to your podcast because he's fantastic
01:21:03
Speaker
You did such a great job on it. I'm Arthur Frations. You should already follow me if you listen to this podcast. If you don't, I'm on on TikTok, Instagram, and Occasionally Threads, though. After rave reviews of it, maybe I should try and check it out a little bit more. Thank you all so much for listening today. Have fun. Do your best. And remember, we believe in you. Bye. Bye.