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Episode 12: Interview with Nigel Deakin!
13 Plays11 months ago
I got the pleasure to interview Nigel Deakin, a member of the Cast Party Podcast!
He blew my mind with the simple revelation that an iconic game is really a puzzle game! Can you guess which one it is?
The Puzzle I presented to him was a doozy, but then he absolutely conquered one from the Tomb of Annahilation!
Check out Nigel at https://www.instagram.com/nigelsuckslmao/
and the Cast Party Podcast is available on all apps!
The Theme song was done by the DungeonMaestro on Tiktok and Instagram!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, my friends. It's me, EarthosCreations, and I'm here today with a special guest and a special friend. We have Nigel Deacon, who is a member of the cast party who plays. Who do you play, Nigel? I play Xander. Hello, Ben. How are you doing tonight?
00:00:16
Speaker
I'm doing well. I'm doing well. He's agreed to come on today to talk about puzzles and I'm very excited to see his thoughts on it all. So without further ado, let's see if he can solve some dungeon problems.
00:00:42
Speaker
Sure amounts and never grows And wins a toothless spider Darkness fills up empty pools And turns an endless spider What we're here for is mysteries But puzzles yet unsolved So sad secrets lost to history Has dungeon problems solved alone?
Interest in Puzzles
00:01:06
Speaker
Dungeon Zoo, problem zoo, puzzle zoo To solve them all. Dungeon Zoo, problem zoo, puzzle zoo To solve them all.
00:01:44
Speaker
insert theme song doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo that is that's the theme song oh okay it's not like in post you know I did actually I did actually go I did go to the dungeon maestro and he made a wonderful amazing theme song oh yes oh my god I would I mean
00:02:09
Speaker
It's kind of in there. I think that what do we do? We do that for something with maybe it's in the behind the scenes. I think it was like Anna singing it or something for a little bit. We just took a recording of Anna saying like behind the scenes question from the listener or something. I don't know. It's something in there, but.
00:02:29
Speaker
Well, if you're listening to this, go listen to the Cast Party podcast. I've said it here before, and I'll say it here again. It's a wonderful podcast with a wonderful community that's putting together something really quite special. But without further ado, here we go. Nigel, what do you think about puzzles? Do you like them? Do you hate them? Are you neutral about them, especially in the TTRPG space? What do you think about them?
00:02:55
Speaker
So, in general, I'd say that I love puzzles, I'm just really bad at them. My brain is banana pudding, and it doesn't, like, it can't connect two thoughts together because
00:03:10
Speaker
pudding isn't glue. So I have a tough time like figuring out how to approach a puzzle a lot of the time or maybe I'll like see how to approach it and then I just can't like piece together the exact route togethers. So it helps when there's a physical element to it like escape rooms are a good example of some of a puzzle that I really enjoy like jigsaw puzzles that's that's also a puzzle that I really enjoy because I can like get my hands on it when it's
00:03:39
Speaker
all words or written text, it's tougher for me to get there, but in general, I'd say I really like them.
Puzzle Challenges and Solutions
00:03:46
Speaker
Do you find if the DM, if you're playing it virtually, sends off the words and stuff, does that help a little bit? Or would you rather it just really be a physical thing for you?
00:04:00
Speaker
I think it'd probably be like a tear system where like physical hands-on is number one. Number two is like being able to just see it. Three is seeing the words and then four would be like just hearing the words. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Because we've had a handful of experiences in Cast Party where Colin has given us a puzzle and the four of us have just sat there staring because we're like,
00:04:30
Speaker
What do you mean there's a fork in the road and we can't go left or right? What does that mean? There's a fork, a pronged instrument sitting in the road. I can't do that. That doesn't work in my brain. But that also isn't a gag that would work well in a
00:04:50
Speaker
physical setting, you know, so that everything has its place. But like, when I don't know, I can picture Colin right now just taking a fork and stabbing it into the table for you guys just be like, oh, and then we'd still be confused because we like we're like, okay, I know what a fork in the road means. So this is just like a physical embodiment of what he's saying, but it doesn't actually mean that it's just the fork in the road. And so we'd overthink it and then we end up back at square one still not being able to go left or right, because it's a straight hallway.
00:05:20
Speaker
Hmm, do you? How do you think you overcome that? Because I mean, I've heard you solving puzzles, you guys all really work together, one of the big puzzles that to keep it kind of spoiler free. I was I was texting Colin right as I was listening to this. But there was an episode where you guys were dealing with some automatons in a
00:05:46
Speaker
in a like a factory or something. I'm trying to keep this as spoiler free as humanly possible. I mean, that was like 30 episodes ago, if you haven't heard it. It was only like 10 episodes ago.
00:05:58
Speaker
Oh, oh, oh, that set of automatons in the factory. Yeah, that there's multiple sets. And I just remember you, you solved it. You I don't I think one of the things that I really struck me when I was listening to you guys solving it is it seemed like very much of a click moment for you, where you were just like, oh,
00:06:22
Speaker
I get it. I have to do this and you, you shot, I think it was an Eldritch blast or something, or you cast a, you, you figured it out without spoiling. It was a phenomenal, uh, puzzle and a phenomenal, uh, solution as well. Do you, do you think, how did you, do you remember how you kind of solve that? What went through your mind at that time?
00:06:47
Speaker
a lot of the time it is like aha moments like it's not I can't take a lot of credit for being good at puzzles because it's just like I end up having moments of like oh and it like everything clicks and it I think that has come from be playing the character that I do like playing Xander I have spent a lot of time with like
00:07:11
Speaker
conspiracy theories and seeing the connections that are made in that realm, which has led to our out-of-character discussions in the behind-the-scenes where we'll talk about our conspiracy theories about the show because we don't know what Colin's planning anytime.
00:07:29
Speaker
We get at most the like a spoiler for the beginning of the episode if he needs something to happen and that's it So we have no idea what's going on. So we have to craft our own like conspiracy theories about what's happening and I think that that practice is what gave me kind of like a
00:07:49
Speaker
better chance of having those aha moments because in that one specifically it's 90% of the time I feel like with Colin it's wording. Wording is so specific it's like a riddle that you just have to like be paying attention to and that like
00:08:07
Speaker
That's not a slight hint for overusing anything because I prefer that. I'm a better riddle solver, I think, than a puzzle solver a lot of the time, especially if all of the information is
DM Techniques and Player Interaction
00:08:22
Speaker
there. That's the kind of thing that I think ties together any, my favorite types of puzzles is when all of the information is present,
00:08:33
Speaker
Like a jigsaw puzzle accounts for that because all of the pieces are there. You just have to figure out how they go together. And that's kind of what any puzzle is, right? Like you end up with all of the pieces. You just have to figure out how they go together to get the solution. I really like what you just said about
00:08:54
Speaker
about how you know Colin, kind of his style. A couple episodes ago, I was talking and we mentioned, you know, like one of the biggest things the DMs can do is know their players, know what they like, and that will help craft kind of how they make a story, how they do the different elements, combat, puzzle making, RP,
00:09:18
Speaker
But I really like that as a player you're bringing up, you have to also know your DM. There's, you did say, you know, like, oh, no slight, you know, because you, you know what he likes to do. And I've had that same exact moment as a DM where a player was like,
00:09:34
Speaker
Oh, I've seen Ben use the cipher before I can solve it right away. And like originally when I brought this up, I was like, I don't like that. But at the same time, it allowed my player to just know it pretty easily. They still had to work it out a little bit and figure out they knew it, but they felt such triumph. Right. So I really how how would you suggest as a player kind of being like figuring out
00:10:00
Speaker
If your DM has a style, do you like that better? Or do you think having a DM varied up will help you as a player learn more stuff? I think in general, I'd say for part one. Sorry, hold up. Let me rearrange those questions in my head. The questions, the puzzle.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think that it is not a bad thing for there to be that kind of repetition because one, like you said, like it's important for your players to know your DM and DM to know your players. And on top of that, like a character in a story
00:10:44
Speaker
most of the time I'd assume know has had a life prior to that story and they have the chance to know things like figuring out a cipher so I don't think it feels like it's a like an advantage if I've if I recognize that Collins like uses a lot of wordplay when it comes to his puzzles
00:11:06
Speaker
it does it makes sense for my character to have knowledge of like wordplay and how that would work and things like that because like just because i'm playing the character doesn't mean i have all of the information that the character has i think that's that's i may be a controversial take i'm not sure because like how people play is entirely different um for that's a beauty everyone plays differently and there's there's no wrong way of playing right
00:11:34
Speaker
And that does lead to things where it's like, hey, I want to do this thing. I don't know how to solve it, but my character totally does. Obviously, there's places where you can...
00:11:45
Speaker
Raise and elevate in those levels, but it's I think for the most part. I think that it is a good It's a good thing and I appreciate that that repetition happens because it's Like we see repetition in the world all the time like things are constantly Happening the same way in several different places at the same time It's not and it's not an unlikely thing for something like that to happen especially if they're in similar themes or
00:12:13
Speaker
a similar world or have similar backstories or anything like that. It can be anywhere and I don't think that it's bad storytelling. I don't think it's a crutch. I don't think anything negative of it because it's still a fun way to experience the story. It gives the players a challenge while not blocking them for three hours because they can't figure out how to get through a door.
00:12:39
Speaker
You never wanna, you never, that's been the reoccurring thing that everyone has said, you never wanna block the players. So the second part of that question was kind of how do you think a DM can help you with the variety? What do you think a DM, what steps do you think a DM could help you as a player to get comfortable with these new puzzles, new challenges? Is there anything you can kind of think of?
00:13:08
Speaker
outside of I mean if you if you're not trying to be like obvious about it like is that who wants that where it's just like hey by the way listen to the words it's like duh dude I was already doing that is what I don't understand I think that
00:13:25
Speaker
providing hints isn't cheating. But it's when you're a DM, you have a lot of power in a lot of different ways when it comes to storytelling where it's you can be the the overlord that doesn't help at all. But that's not fun for anyone. Instead, it's like offering up like, hey, don't you have
00:13:49
Speaker
at this don't you have an item in your inventory that you got five hundred sessions ago that like kind of it was like in the shape of an eye or something right and it's like and that might jog the memory to be like oh is there anything that's like I shaped here I remember there was like this connection here this that and that's like that's not even
00:14:10
Speaker
That's barely giving a hint, that's just reminding your player of something that they already have. That is providing them information on a piece that they would know they have, even if the person at themselves don't remember it, don't see it in their notes, whatever it may be.
00:14:28
Speaker
Writing options like insight checks perception checks investigation checks just reminding players that those are available cuz that's i am the worst about all of those things i never ever remember that i can do those things.
00:14:45
Speaker
and I feel like Ana is the only one that ever does those in Cast Party and she should stop doing them because like her intelligence is as low as the rest of us and she doesn't have proficiency in perception or investigation or whatever like I might or Sebastian who can't have any negative traits like
00:15:05
Speaker
She's the only one that remembers, though. None of us are, like, inquisitive or paying attention at all. She's got, like, a perception of 24 now, so, like, she should see everything on the planet, but she can't investigate a room, so it's... anyway. Luckily, I just listened to that episode, so I know about that, so I'm like, oh, I got 24?
00:15:30
Speaker
Ridiculous that yeah, you know, he's Collins a gracious DM and he gifts us a great many things I I really like that point because I'd never really considered
00:15:44
Speaker
The point about making sure that you remind players about stuff they have, because a lot of my players are great. They go over the character sheets. They go over the session notes that I do. And I feel like there are a lot of players who are amazing players and very helpful. But at the end of the day, the DMs are probably the most invested in the game and the ones who know everything.
00:16:08
Speaker
In my notes, I have little boxes where I write down things that the players know and don't know at the same time. I'll be like, all right, the players found the Ruby Dagger of...
00:16:21
Speaker
Azeroth and it has to go into the statue that they're going to find next week. They might skim over their character sheet and see Ruby Dagger and forget about it because they have three Ruby Daggers, a gold coin and the rubber chicken of doom. They'll be like, they won't. They'll be like, maybe we use the rubber chicken of doom on the statue.
00:16:45
Speaker
Who knows? So that's a really, I think that's kind of one of the biggest things that I can think of right now that the DM should help with.
Role of Puzzles in D&D Campaigns
00:16:54
Speaker
Do you think that exposure to more types of puzzles would help you in the long run or do you think that it would kind of overbear you a little bit?
00:17:09
Speaker
It depends on your scale for that question. Cause like in the long run, if you're talking about life, yes, do puzzles. Like they're good for your brain. Like I used to do Sudoku every single day just because it was like an extra little like brain thing. Now I do like, um, a handful of word games through the New York times. Uh, it, because they have like, they have the wordles on there.
00:17:35
Speaker
Um, they have the cross, the mini crossword, which is like, at most like a six by six grid. And you just have to figure out like a total of maybe six words. Um, and then, uh, they have one that's called.
00:17:53
Speaker
Well, my brain's spelling bee where it gives you like a grid of seven letters and every word you just have to make words using those letters. You can use the letters as many times as you want in any order. They just have to include the middle letter at least once. And so it's like that sounds like hell. Oh, my God.
00:18:14
Speaker
So I mean like those are those are some of my favorite puzzles just because they're like it's something I can do every day It gets my brain working in the morning but So overall yes do puzzles like those are I think all in all a good thing to do specifically in a game I Think the answer should be yes
00:18:38
Speaker
as long as your players are having fun with it. Because the last thing you want to do is have a puzzle-heavy story that the players are crawling through because they're not good at puzzles or they don't understand how to get through that door. And the door isn't even the puzzle. It's like this door's untrapped, it's not magic, it's completely unlocked, but no one trusts anything and they think it's a puzzle because it's just an unlocked door.
00:19:08
Speaker
You don't want that every single session because that slows down the game and then you're not experiencing the story and this and that and the other. So like, if your players are good at puzzles or enjoy puzzles or are with people that are those things and can find joy in being like the comic relief on the side, like that is a good way to have those in their preface or out surface. How do I say the opposite of preface?
00:19:36
Speaker
Okay, thank you my epilogue Yes, my epilogue My epilogue for that thought is or for all of this is that this is just obviously my opinion like I'm not gonna be I'm not a master DM I will never be a master DM. I'm not a master puzzle doer or maker I'm just a dude that plays games and so I think
00:20:01
Speaker
that you can have a great campaign with a ton of puzzles, and I think you can have a great campaign without any puzzles. It all depends on what your players and the DM enjoy, because if the DM hates making puzzles, you don't want to make them make puzzles for a party that likes them. That's true. That's true. You always have to take into-
00:20:23
Speaker
Yeah, I'm kind of formulaic, that's my word of the day, in my dungeon prep, in my campaign prep, where every session I try and have roleplay, combat, and a puzzle.
00:20:40
Speaker
Or as the very first episode that I did with All Father's Games, he came up with problems, not just puzzles, but just like a problem. And so I think the big thing is you can't just you can't just do it like one third, one third, one third. You have to do it, you know, like maybe this session, it has a heavy RP.
00:21:04
Speaker
a little itty bitty combat and a problem or a small puzzle like there's an unlocked door that they have to get through and they just have to check that it's unlocked. You know, so I think that might help some players who are not used to certain aspects of D&D. If you really give them a formulaic kind of session each time where it's like
00:21:27
Speaker
one of each thing so they get to experience a bunch of different stuff but you vary the quantity of it. When you have either a new players or a new DM those things can end up just kind of melding together because people's questions can lead into a puzzle type situation when it's meant to just be combat where it's like you know you see
00:21:54
Speaker
you know five soldiers on the on the ridge and they are coming to attack you and then the party's like but what about this catapult that's approximately human shaped like can I launch myself at them and then it becomes a puzzle of like how do I get to the ground without killing myself
00:22:13
Speaker
Is this going to hurt them? Can I turn into a cow while I'm flying and actually just hit the ground hard? Like it's like you can turn those things into that because of just like level of experience, whether it's a lot of experience or none at all. We're we're running through Dragonlance with Vince is the DM and I think we have a lot of those moments with we have like.
00:22:35
Speaker
three pretty new players in the group. So we talked about we talked about the Dragon Lance a little bit and some of the stuff that happened. Just for Vince's sake, I will throw this out there. How can you turn the catapult into a cow to pull?
00:22:56
Speaker
Well, well, we did. We did. You did. OK. OK. You you transformed into a cow. Tell me the whole story.
00:23:07
Speaker
We have a druid in our party. It's Ryan and Colin's sister. She's a Circle of the Moon druid. So when we got to the human-shaped catapult, we got launched off the tower as she was falling, turned into an ox, and landed on one of the dudes. And it's a type of a meat eeyore. Yes!
00:23:37
Speaker
Today's episode is brought to you by Puttons. We talked a little bit about the Dragonlance campaign. He mentioned the zombies.
00:23:55
Speaker
We have such a big party for that, too. It's six people playing most of the time. And for that section, we got split up into two different groups. And so while one group was having a thing, the other group was trying to figure out what the hell just happened to them. So we ended up with a lot of misinformation and started telling the other players the wrong information. But that's how the games played.
00:24:21
Speaker
information gets transferred from one group to the other, that's the information. Like if we can't just be like, um, DM, can you actually just fix that for us? So, but it is fun. Yeah. Uh, you've been playing D&D for a relatively short time. Uh, compared to some people, I think it's about three years now.
Puzzles in Video Games and Media
00:24:43
Speaker
Um, beginning of COVID about, uh,
00:24:48
Speaker
When you started playing D&D, you mentioned that you've done Sudoku for years and stuff like that, so you've been exposed to puzzles a lot. Had you heard about anything to do with D&D puzzles and how puzzles fit into it? Or was it just where you kind of just told, oh, it's role-playing, it's combat, it's what kind of was, how was D&D pitched to you?
00:25:10
Speaker
So, I mean, as a basically lifelong gamer at this point, like I got my first gaming system when I was four, I think, so an N64. Shout out to the N64, the classic, the best. For sure. Loved that thing. I might still have it somewhere, actually, like my very first one from 1999. It probably still works. They used to make things that worked.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah. So as someone that has been a gamer, I've never not been around the gaming space, tabletop, video, card. All games were kind of in my scope. And so I watched movies that were about D&D, and we had, what was the name of that show? The Guild. Did you ever watch that? I've never watched The Guild, but I know of it.
00:26:06
Speaker
It had Felicia Day in it as one of the main characters, love her to death. I think that that was probably the thing that got me the most like information about D&D because that's it's a show about a D&D group or yeah.
00:26:26
Speaker
And so like I was very well aware that puzzles existed in that and it made sense because like puzzles existed in all of the games that I played and even if it wasn't like a
00:26:38
Speaker
I plan, knowing what your final question is, this answer is going to tie into that later, where I think that a lot of aspects of games, regardless of the style, are kind of puzzle-based, even if they aren't focusing on that. Like, it's not ever listed as a puzzle game, but I would say that
00:27:00
Speaker
Pokemon Ruby is a puzzle game. I would say that Hollow Knight is a puzzle game. I would say that all sorts of games are a type of puzzle game because they have things that you have to solve, they give you the pieces, and it's not immediately clear what you have to do. I just realized how much of a puzzle game Pokemon really is.
00:27:24
Speaker
Yeah, like when you're in the caves and you have to move the boulders through certain holes. When you're facing Team Rocket for the first time in the not for the first time, but when you're facing them in, I think it's based in their base and like there's the little platforms you have to. Oh, oh my God.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah, this is so this is kind of tripping me out right now. Actually, I did not realize how many puzzles were in O.G. Pokemon. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that continues on throughout like most of the series, I think in the later editions, like the most recent ones, they kind of slowed down a little bit because it's just they changed up a lot. But I think all of that is a look new, the new look of the Pokemon. I don't know why, but yeah.
00:28:11
Speaker
I'd miss the sprites. I miss the sprites so much. Generation 5, black and white, those are the best looking games bar none. Anyway, so I knew that D&D had puzzles in it because how can you have a game without puzzles, right?
00:28:34
Speaker
I think I'm torn because like, I mean, I've been playing D&D for close to 15 years now. I don't honestly remember how I got into it or anything or even my first experiences. But I feel so much nowadays is about the role playing. You see all these great communities and great creators who are putting together these beautiful stories. Like I just watched the Amazon original for
00:29:04
Speaker
Wow. Critical Role. Wow. Yeah, I watched that again. And I beautiful story. Love the story. Love the world. Love. I've never listened to their campaigns and stuff. But I can't think of a puzzle in there.
00:29:21
Speaker
And it saddens me a little bit because I would love to be like, hey, Matt Mercer came up with this amazing puzzle that I would love to see what he does for that. But I honestly can't think of it because it's so overshadowed by the role play. So it's nice to know that someone who's relatively new is like, yeah, no, I knew there were puzzles going into it and maybe I wasn't excited for them. Maybe I was excited for them, but I knew it was part of it. So it still has that at least identity.
00:29:52
Speaker
I think to just to play devil's advocate for that one thing because as I also haven't listened to critical role at all outside of calamity, the one that was like the four episode offshoot that had like Luis Carrazzo on it and was run by Brendan Lee Mulligan.
00:30:12
Speaker
Great little series, made me cry while I was washing my dishes. But, uh, outside of that, I haven't listened to Critical Role at all. And watching Vox Machina, I agree, pretty much no puzzles. Like they have scenarios that they have to figure out how to get out of, but it's not like a genuine puzzle.
00:30:29
Speaker
And I think that that might just be because when making a TV show or a movie, puzzles don't equate to the visual medium, the way that like producers think it should. And my, I have to throw that out there because one of my favorite books that I've read, I'm not going to put it in like a top five list, but I genuinely enjoy reading it was ready player one.
00:30:56
Speaker
and the movie pisses me off more than anything else on this planet. Genuinely, I can talk about it for hours, how much I hate that movie. And example one,
00:31:10
Speaker
Subsection A is the first trial for the first key, which in the book is a massive puzzle that people all over the world were trying to figure out and couldn't figure it out for decades and then or years or however long it was and then it was one kid who was like he pieced together like oh yeah so this this leads to this world and it would be in this area and then I go here and I have to beat
00:31:36
Speaker
I have to beat a lich at a game of Joust, like the old arcade game Joust. And it's like, there's 40 pages where he's just talking about how awesome, like what the whole process was of like figuring out that puzzle because it was a genuine puzzle. And then in the movie, all it was was like, there's a race that happens every week at this exact same time.
00:32:03
Speaker
and to solve the thing to get the last key, instead of going forward, you just drive backward at the start, and then you end up at where the key is.
00:32:14
Speaker
No one tried that in however many years. That doesn't make any sense. If you've ever played a video game, of course you go backwards at the start. If you can go forward and backwards, there's someone that's like, I'm gonna go backwards, fuck it. And then you just go. It's so infuriating. Just that one scene will get me riled up. But that is that point of visual mediums. They want to focus on the action, the role play, the character,
00:32:41
Speaker
interactions and relationships. They don't care as much about the puzzle sides of things, even though it can be incredibly interesting and cool.
00:32:51
Speaker
I'm going to quote probably one of the most cursed things in the D&D community right now because you are correct. A lot of times I feel like the puzzles are not as flashy as beautiful or as stunning as what one would want in an audio form, media form. But, and please don't come after me for this community, one of my favorite movies is the original Dungeons and Dragons movie.
00:33:22
Speaker
the OG one from early 2000s. And there is a scene of the main character trying to get through a maze of a series of challenges with puzzles in it. And it is, for such a shitty movie, it is beautifully done. It is just really like, I feel like they took their entire budget, put it into that one scene and then said, screw the rest of it.
00:33:47
Speaker
So it is, I think it is possible to do it, but I will say that was specifically designed to look probably pretty good. So yeah, it's interesting. I think I'll become a big movie producer now and find a way to just make entire puzzles cool. The escape from movie. That was pretty cool. Have you ever seen The Cube?
00:34:16
Speaker
Is that the one with the prison where they're all suspended in cubes in a prison or something? Basically, yeah. Like where every person in the movie wakes up in a box room and a little opening opens up and they have to go through. And it's all math. The whole thing is math, which is lame as hell. But it's still an interesting puzzle, escape room type thing that also involves murder. And who doesn't love that? But that's an example.
00:34:46
Speaker
of like an interesting kind of puzzle movie. The Saw movies kind of interesting puzzle movies. It's true. I mean, yeah, disgustingly true, but that's true. I think the only reason I recognize that cube movie is I can vividly remember a trailer for it on the beginning of a DVD.
00:35:05
Speaker
Oh wow. I miss, I miss
Live Puzzle Solving Session
00:35:07
Speaker
trailers. So I really wish like Netflix had trailers on it. Like, and the old Disney, like the old Disney intro that was like, dare to dream Disney. So, all right. I think it's time to see if you can solve some puzzles today.
00:35:27
Speaker
All right, so here we go. I'm actually working on getting a little bit of music for this part, like a little game show intro kind of thing that I'm very excited for. Hopefully it's by the time I edit this, it will be ready, but we'll see. Would you like to solve the official one that they're all official? I created one. Would you like to try and solve the one that I created first or the one that has been officially published?
00:35:54
Speaker
Let's do yours first. Mine first. All right. Wonderful. Today's puzzle is brought to you by me, Earthos Creations. I don't copyright it. It's not copyrighted. All right. So knowing that you like to have kind of all the information placed in front of you right away, I will attempt to do that because this is an audio. You know what? And we can also
00:36:19
Speaker
Hmm, maybe, if we need to, I'll type it up. But you come to a chamber with eight pillars of stone in a circle. They are all equal distance from one another. A pedestal sits on a small dais in the front of the pillar farthest from where you enter this chamber.
00:36:44
Speaker
Approaching that day as you see the pedestal reads, remember the cardinal rule is to follow directions closely. And then below it in kind of like a quotation box, I don't know, probably a quotation box. Things shall go south if you don't start there. Then you must not touch north or west. Across the way is best, but just a touch south.
00:37:13
Speaker
until you head back finally across once more. Okay. See the, I can see the, uh, the wheels beginning to turn and as a DM who loves puzzle, that's, I love that moment. All right. So I walk in, do I walk in from a particular direction? Uh, Hmm.
00:37:41
Speaker
This is one of the things built into it of how would you figure out the direction? Am I outside? I would say no. This is inside a cave. The pillars are kind of holding up the cave. I do love a good dice roll. Give me a survival roll.
00:38:04
Speaker
We're gonna just use Xander here as a kind of a crutch. So you're not a ranger, you're not a druid. So it's probably not too good. It's like, I think I have a plus one or something to it. So that's a 15. A 15?
00:38:22
Speaker
Alright, with a 15 that's pretty good. Maybe you just entered this kind of cavern so you have a good bearing of where the sun was as you were coming in. So you know that the northern pillar is the one right across from where you entered. So there's a pillar in front of you as you enter and then a pillar directly across from that and you know that way is north.
00:38:47
Speaker
Right. And the dais was next to the pillar furthest away from me. Yeah. So right next to the northern pillar. All right. So it said that if I don't start at south or things will go south if I don't start there.
00:39:06
Speaker
I'm sorry, can you read it again? Things shall go south if you don't start there. Then you must not touch north or west. Across the way is best, but just a touch south until you head back finally across once more. Well, so
00:39:34
Speaker
If I touch the South Pillar, where the heck do I go from there? It doesn't want me to go north, doesn't want me to go west, but how do I go across? So I'll ask a question now, do you want to touch the South Pillar right now? Or do you want to hold off? Hmm, I guess.
00:40:03
Speaker
I think... no. What's going through my head is that it's a... I have to like touch the south pillar and then do a loop around some of the other pillars. If there's eight points it's the eight different eight cardinal directions and then the north north or north
00:40:30
Speaker
north northwest sorry what am i doing northwest northeast south west and southeast i'm trying to make it 16 baby uh so it doesn't want me to go north doesn't want me to go west or doesn't want me to
00:40:49
Speaker
touch them, but it does want me to go across. That's what's making me think it goes. I start at the South Pillar, touch that, and then loop around the others because it wants me to go slightly more south. Does that mean east or northeast? So things shall go south if you don't start there. What do you think that makes you think? Where do you want to start? Oh, okay.
00:41:17
Speaker
things will go south if I don't start there. So that means that I would start. Wait, I have the interesting thing because everyone can read sentences kind of differently. Yeah, it's all about where you where you announce enunciate, where you put the focus.
00:41:44
Speaker
So things will go south if you don't start there. It could mean that things will go badly if I don't start at south, but it could also mean that if I don't start at west or east, then it could only go south from the north, right?
00:42:10
Speaker
My brain is being tickled in a weird way. Things will go south if you don't start here. So you have a thought right now, you have to either start south or where else would you might have to start? Don't start here. I think
00:42:35
Speaker
that would, I think the other option is North. Okay. Next to the dais. And then what are the, then what's the next line? The next line is about not- The next line is, then you must not touch North or West. Okay.
00:43:02
Speaker
That one seems spot on. Like, what else could that mean? Don't touch those. But head a little bit more south. And... Across... You...
00:43:21
Speaker
So one of the things I've been doing with this kind of segment is playing as another player in your party
Favorite Puzzle Experiences
00:43:27
Speaker
as well, trying to give a little advice. And so right now I'll play as the bumbling barbarian. And I'll just say to you, why don't we touch one to start out, see what happens. Nothing bad can happen. That's all the point. Can't argue with that.
00:43:47
Speaker
Um, so I would touch the South pillar because that's what my gut instinct is kind of pushing towards. So you go to touch the Southern pillar and you press your hand on the cold stone and suddenly you feel a warmth radiate and the pillar turns a color blue. We'll go with blue. It turns a nice blue. Uh, and so it's now radiating blue from top to bottom. Okay.
00:44:21
Speaker
Wait wait wait Because now the line about going across is what's what's picking me up now because like there's no way that I can go across if there's no North unless I am just not touching those Then you must not touch north or west
00:44:44
Speaker
Across the way is best, but just a touch south. So if you can't touch north or west, what do you think the next one you could touch is?
00:45:12
Speaker
north east or just east I guess because if it's saying none of north then that excludes northeast so I could touch anywhere on the southern right quadrant um math geometry because like but like going across means going to north so I feel like I'm I'm off if I go
00:45:44
Speaker
Maybe I should touch the northeast pillar. So it just says, remember the cardinal rule is to follow directions closely.
00:45:57
Speaker
And I will say, I think this is where I might, if I could change it up on the fly, have them each on the pedestal. They're each on different lines. So like the line that says, things shall go south if you don't start there is on one line of the pedestal. Then you must not touch north or west will be on a second line. Then the third line is across the way is best, but just a touch south.
00:46:24
Speaker
and then until you head back across once more is on the fourth line. That might help it up, change it up on the fly. And with puzzles, you have to be ready to change it up on the fly to help out a little bit. That makes it so you're not stuck on it. That's... With that, like re-hearing that first section does make me want to just follow the directions
00:46:51
Speaker
as they are without like much of anything where it's like it said south first so I touch south first then north then west then back to south and across to north so south north west south north
00:47:09
Speaker
would be the order that I would say. Okay. So as you go to touch the Western pillar, you feel that warmth in your hand, and the pillar begins to glow red and begins to crumble. And that Western pillar is no longer there. And you feel the roof of this cavern you're in begin to shake a couple rocks come loose.
00:47:38
Speaker
Okay, so maybe I don't touch north. Oh god, I have no idea now. This is what I mean, like I'm bad with the puzzles and solving and connecting thoughts. It is also a very different thing when you have a whole bunch of people to discuss it with. True. That is true. Puzzles are not meant to be one-on-one sorts of things.
00:48:08
Speaker
So if West didn't work and we were told not to touch West or North, what else is besides West or North? East, Northwest. We still have so many options. Well, I will say you did already partially think you maybe shouldn't touch anything that had to do with North or West. You did mention that. True. Yeah. All right. Helping you corral your thoughts.
00:48:36
Speaker
East, it does feel like a safer bet than with that knowledge, because that's not North or West. It is a little bit more South than North, I guess. So maybe the Eastern pillar. All right. You're going to touch the Eastern pillar. Wait, wait, wait, hold up.
00:49:00
Speaker
Things will go south if you don't start here. Then you must not touch north or west is the next stanza. Right. But you go across and then it's a little bit more south. Across the way is best, but just a touch south. Let's focus on, let's just do that second stanza.
00:49:32
Speaker
Across the way is best, but just to touch south. Or wait, did you? Well, then you must not touch north or west. Maybe one edit I would make if I ran this puzzle again would say you must touch something else. That way it implies there's a step right there.
00:49:57
Speaker
Right. Okay. So I would go to East. I think, I think East makes sense in my brain. All right. You touch the Eastern pillar that warmth, that beautiful warm warmth comes and the pillar begins to change to blue. Okay. All right.
00:50:24
Speaker
Cool. Good. Good for the next one. Across the way is best, but just to touch south. So that means southeast. Southeast, right? Or, sorry, not southeast. Southwest. Southwest? Do you want to touch southwest now? Yes. All right. You touch it, and the pillar turns blue. Perfect. Then you return south.
00:50:52
Speaker
until you head back finally across once more. Well, if it's straight across, then that would be southeast. Yeah, so the direction it's south, then east, then southwest, southeast. Southeast?
00:51:16
Speaker
Well, that's if I go just like straight line down I guess it could be Northeast if that's what it means by across Yeah, cuz the other one was across and just to touch south, but this is just straight across the Northeast Northeast you touch the Northeastern pillar
00:51:34
Speaker
Yes. Your hand touches the cold stone and you don't know if it's damp from the cold air or from the sweat on your palms as it turns blue. The four pillars begin to glow and suddenly a portal opens up in front of you and you have solved the false pillar puzzle. And there we go.
00:52:01
Speaker
golf claps all around. Thank you for your help through that though. Like that, I need that. Having that person to bounce ideas off of is so important. Yeah. I don't think I'll ever run a D&D game with one person where I try. Actually, I have run a one person D&D game and the puzzles are so tough for that reason. What do you think you liked about that puzzle? I think
00:52:31
Speaker
As you said, like all of the information is there and I think that that is key because like that's one of those things where
00:52:39
Speaker
Like if I, I started to draw it out and then my brain, like I just, I couldn't process things quick enough, so I just left it as it was. And I think having that, having all of the information there, very helpful and makes that a doable puzzle because what do you do if you don't have the information? Like you just be in a room with pillars, you touch until the room caves in. Pretty much, yeah.
00:53:03
Speaker
I did notice at the end audio listeners you obviously didn't see this but at the end you were holding your pencil up trying to figure out which way it was and I think that was kind of a big thing that helped you towards the end where you were like okay it is just it was a cross like that so it makes sense it's a cross like that. What do you think would have made it better for you though?
00:53:29
Speaker
I'm bad at this part of evaluations. I think it might just be the visual aspect of it. Like, even if it's just having the pillars set up on the board or drawn out or something, that's probably the one thing that would make it better for me. Yeah. Because again, having that physical aspect is...
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think I've ever done a theater of the mind game. Because of that same exact thing. I love my battle maps.
Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks
00:54:07
Speaker
I love my I love my
00:54:11
Speaker
minis and all that jazz because it's not necessary like obviously my minis aren't real life things where I'm like oh this definitely is a dragon but it helps the visualization the imagination a little bit as well. Awesome.
00:54:28
Speaker
Well, that was my puzzle and you solved it, you conquered it. So now we're on to the official puzzle written by Wizards of the Coast. I wish I could like know exactly who designed this, but unfortunately they don't tell you. This one comes from the Tomb of Annihilation book. Sick. So do you know anything about the Tomb of Annihilation? I don't think so.
00:54:56
Speaker
Anna might have run us through a part of that section. She ran you through a part of Tomb of Horrors, one of the famous D&D adventures. Tomb of Annihilation, if my understanding correctly, is essentially 5E's version of it in a campaign setting. There's actually a 5E Tomb of Horrors, but this was kind of like a
00:55:25
Speaker
Acerac the main villain from tomb of horrors has like a bunch of these tombs around Like tomb of horrors and I bet with sixth edition, which I hope never comes out. I will probably have like a tomb of deadly stuff just So yeah, this is kind of Five ease creation to torture people Right and hopefully doesn't torture you too badly. Ah
00:55:53
Speaker
So at the bottom of, this takes place in an underground dungeon like most D&D things, at the bottom of the grand staircase, a resonant mechanical rumbling emanates from a dark shaft opening up in the middle of this chamber's floor. Four cylindrical stone pedestals surround the shaft, each 10 feet tall, five feet wide, and featuring a tiny slot on its side.
00:56:23
Speaker
Squatting atop each pedestal is a large four-armed gargoyle. Then it reads, any character looking down on the room from one of the balconies above or another high vantage place notices something else. Each gargoyle is contained within a square made of metallic tiles embedded on the top of its pedestal.
00:56:47
Speaker
Starting with the northernmost pedestal and going clockwise around, the tiles are copper, silver, gold, and platinum. Copper, silver, gold, and platinum. Okay. And that is what you see in this room. Okay.
00:57:19
Speaker
My initial thought is... Wait, hold on, I need to remember what the periodic table is. I think it would be silver, gold, copper, platinum in alphabetical order based on the periodic table.
00:57:46
Speaker
You know what? My, um, 11th grade chemistry class, uh, one of the mnemonic devices that they, that my teacher taught us was, Hey, you got any gold? Oh gee, only silver. And I've been saying that for the last 11 years to remember which one's which. So it, yeah, it would be silver, gold, copper, platinum.
00:58:15
Speaker
If I'm remembering what platinum is, I think it's PL. A, you got some gold. Oh my god. Oh, that's...
00:58:25
Speaker
You got to love elementary school, middle school, high school, things to try and remember what you learned when in reality, well, actually no, it worked. You remember this years later. Yeah. Yeah. That one, that one super worked. I don't remember what the order of the planets is, but I remember which one is gold and silver. I know Mercury's the first one. That's, that's all I know. Yeah. That, you know, I think you're right. I think it is like the reddest one besides Mars.
00:58:56
Speaker
the red planet. Yeah, enough about planets. Yeah. So they are there in these stone cages or stone like encasings that are those colors. So it's metallic tiles that surround the gargoyles on top of the pedestals.
00:59:18
Speaker
That's right. So it's a pedestool. One of the things you see is a little slot on the side of the pedestool about your height. Squatting atop the pedestool is each gargoyle. Large four-armed gargoyles. That doesn't play into it. They all have forearms. Actually, no, they don't.
00:59:38
Speaker
And then, since you're high up, you can see that underneath the gargoyles are metallic tiles. Each one has a singular metallic color. So the northern one has copper, the eastern one has silver, the southern one has gold, and the western one has platinum.
01:00:05
Speaker
right okay um does the slot look like anything or is it just like give me an investigation check there we'll let you use your skills no you won't it's a one ooh a natural one not a dirty one
01:00:23
Speaker
A natural one. It looks like just a hole cut out into into the pillar. It looks like you can see darkness inside and it looks barely big enough, barely big enough for your finger. Well, even with that.
01:00:46
Speaker
that triggered something because money is also those colors. So if I have money, can I put in a coin of gold into the gold, copper in the copper, silver in the silver, and platinum in the platinum? I guess in the order of their worth.
01:01:08
Speaker
All right, yeah. You do that, you first put a copper piece in, you feel it tumble down, you feel it tumble down. No, you hear it tumbling down into the, and there's a slight clink as it lands at the bottom. And then you do the silver, the gold, and the platinum, and the gargoyles look at you with a giant smile on their faces. One of them is slightly drooling and rubbing its hands together.
01:01:35
Speaker
And you are able to proceed down the shaft and not be attacked by four gargoyles. And you've solved that puzzle. Booyah. All right. That one was just like. Yeah, done easy. So it's because I'm a Capricorn, so I'm very money focused. I think I mean, that's kind of thing where. I don't think natural ones in puzzles should be.
01:02:04
Speaker
devastating. In combat, yes. In role-playing, yes, sometimes. You know, like, if you're persuading someone in role-playing, and you're like, oh, I go up to the king and say, oh, Mary, your daughter, I'm a wealthy lord, you know, and you roll an at one. I don't think that should mean like, it comes out like, it just, but in puzzles, it definitely is not something that should hinder you.
01:02:34
Speaker
Right. I tried to figure out a way of making it just hard enough. But the second you I think I think when I said that, you know, it's just big enough for your finger, you that's when it clicked on you. Yeah. What did you like? I was going to say, I think the.
01:02:54
Speaker
That puzzle would have been a more difficult one for anyone that couldn't see from above. So like in a D&D party, if you don't have someone that's in the balcony or has fly or spider climb or something and can get up high and see those colors, it wouldn't be as immediately obvious, you know, in one way or the other. Like you wouldn't know that it's, you know, the gold, silver, copper, and platinum colors. If you couldn't see all of them, maybe if you just like noticed like, oh, it's kind of like brownie. I don't know. It's, it's one section of weight.
01:03:24
Speaker
Yeah, exactly so that that I think that definitely gave me a leg up by just automatically knowing what was what the view was from above Wow, that's two for two right there See and now when Colin brings this up next week and you suddenly see four gargles on top of a pedestal you'll just be like Hopefully we'll send in some of these puzzles
01:03:50
Speaker
Awesome. Well, there we go. We've solved two puzzles. We've done it. I think by streak is pretty much everyone's solved the puzzles. Uh, and that's, that's the goal. I'd say you're a pretty good DM in that respect too, because you definitely walked me through that one, that first one. I would not have gotten there without the guidance, without, uh,
01:04:13
Speaker
without the extra pushes in the right direction or at the very least the other person to bounce ideas off of. So the thing I really love about this is I brought this up previously that when you're designing puzzles, when you're doing these things before you actually present it to your group or something like that, take a chance to
01:04:35
Speaker
bounce it off someone, see how they do it. I've done it with a couple different puzzles as I presented here. And also, this is kind of the opportunity to do as well. Because that puzzle that I presented to you is by no means the finished product. You know, I didn't originally have them on different lines, which I think helped. So by seeing how you solved it, it allowed me to probably evolve it to be the best way.
01:05:00
Speaker
So it's important to test them out with people before you even present it to your group. You just have to have someone who loves you enough to put up with endless puzzles. And I know Colin has at least one of those people that I'm
01:05:15
Speaker
Fairly certain his partner has heard every secret about cash parties so far Not at me. Ally. You've talked about this She she is and she isn't okay. Yeah because I think Sometimes like most DMS Colin sometimes is rushing prep a little bit Yeah
01:05:38
Speaker
All right, well, now time for the part that I'm very excited for, to hear what your favorite puzzle in life has been. What puzzle has stuck with you? What puzzle do you think not necessarily made an impact? I hope no puzzle has made it so your life has full meaning or something like that. But what puzzle in any... Okay, let's go. Let's hear what you have.
01:06:03
Speaker
All right, so I have a handful of honorable mentions because like I said earlier, puzzles are everywhere and my interpretation of what a puzzle is is sort of loose in that it's, you don't have the answer but you're given the pieces and you can figure it out. That's kind of my interpretation of what a puzzle is and that leaves a very broad expanse of what can be considered a puzzle.
01:06:32
Speaker
Couple of honorable mentions ready player one that's full of puzzles the one I mentioned earlier where he's The figuring out how to get to the game of joust and all that sort of stuff That one doesn't count as much because it doesn't hand you all of the pieces It just hands you the pieces that the main character has already learned and he figured it all out so honorable mention there Honorable mention for
01:06:56
Speaker
uh magic in general like the like street magic not the card game um because specifically the movie now you see me that's a good example of of street magic that is kind of filled out like a puzzle they show you the result of what happened
01:07:14
Speaker
then as the movie goes on they work back and show you how it happened and it's one of those things where it's like okay, you know what the people can do you know what is possible and You can figure it out if you have the know-how of like how street magic works potentially Based off of what's in the movie and like what they could have done. So that was another another big one the path of pain in Hollow Knight that's a big one because
01:07:41
Speaker
like the game shows you to a hallway that is full of spinning razor blades and no floor and the path continues up off screen like to the top left
01:07:57
Speaker
And it just tells you, go. And that's one of those games where you've spent the entire game learning the mechanics of double jumping, wall jumping, bouncing off of enemies and harmful things with your attacks.
01:08:12
Speaker
using your dashes at the right time using your dashes to get back your jumps like it gives you all of the pieces and this is the true test of might but it's not just like can you like use the skills to get there it's how the hell do i get to that spot over there like i i've spent i spent times several
01:08:35
Speaker
probably hours by the time I finished it just staring at the screen thinking like okay do I have to go dash jump drop bounce dash bounce dash or do I do dash jump jump down it's like it just it's all over the place so that's a good one if you've never seen it first of all recommend playing Hollow Knight second if you're not good at platformers or don't have any interest in it just watch a video of Path of Pain because that's
01:09:05
Speaker
crazy but the the end all be all like king of puzzles for me is in pokemon ruby pokemon ruby the regis uh like the puzzle to solve and find the regis is like top of my list because that was probably the first puzzle that i ever
01:09:33
Speaker
Solved and felt proud of because what the hell were those? It's like all of a sudden you walk into a cave that is completely hidden and there's no like you wouldn't have ever seen it unless you were in this one spot in the ocean or you knew it was there because you were exploring like the mountains over here and It's like you have to first find the entrance you walk into the entrance and then you're met with Braille in a Gameboy game how
01:10:03
Speaker
I don't know Braille. So the puzzles will, there's three of them because there's Red Rock, Regis Steel and Rich Ice. They each have a Braille inscription that you have to, you know, decipher if you don't know Braille. So I had to look up a
01:10:24
Speaker
like Braille dictionary just or like a letter conversion so that I could read it on the screen and then it gives you a riddle that you have to figure out and then go get the pieces for it come back excuse me do the things it told you to do then the thing opens up and you get a chance to catch the pokemon
01:10:46
Speaker
This is Pokemon Ruby. Is that fourth or fifth generation? That was third gen. So 2003. Gameboy advanced. Yep, exactly. Ruby and Sapphire colored cartridges. I don't think I ever did this. Emerald was the big one that came out after that was like the culmination of the two, but it.
01:11:10
Speaker
It like truly was something that when I first saw it, I had no idea what I was looking at. And that is not an example of it handing you all the pieces because not everyone knows Braille. But once you got past that that hurdle or like wreck it, you like you were given a hint and you were told, figure out what this says or what this is to try and figure out what it says once you know that part. And from that point, like worked upward. One of them was like,
01:11:41
Speaker
you need to have a Relicanth in the first part, first slot of your party and then walk in this path in this room and use fly in the center of the room and then the door will open. And it says pretty much all of that in like slight riddle form, but it's still like, I'm, dog, I'm seven. What do you expect me to do with this? But I, like the reason I said that that was such a like,
01:12:10
Speaker
almost life-changing thing was not just because of that puzzle but because of that game as a whole like that game is the reason i know how to read that game is the reason that i know how to like strategize uh it taught me problem solving and patience and figuring out all sorts of things and those puzzles i think were like a big part of like showing me that
01:12:34
Speaker
that you like you need resources you need to be able to reference things because like once i got i had the guide for that game but i wasn't like actively using it for a lot of it other than like learning pokemon moves or seeing when they level up or whatever but then if you go to the section that has the regis it's like here's a braille dictionary first and foremost like here here's the conversion
01:13:01
Speaker
And then if you continue reading, then it tells you how to do everything or like what it says. I actually. That might have been the like the original prima guide. They didn't tell you everything. They just gave you like the resources for it. So I think that that was kind of like my my resource, the beginning of my resource checking and citing my sources and whatever. So it's like that was a format.
01:13:23
Speaker
Exactly yeah That I think that game in general is the the reason that I have the a lot of the skills that I have now Because of how much was in it and that puzzle was a big part of it
01:13:40
Speaker
That's that's crazy. That's awesome. I definitely love that. It's, you know, you felt that such that rush of being able to solve it, that you solved it. The because that's what puzzles are about, you know, that rush, the end of the rush of beating it like anything.
01:13:58
Speaker
you know and I like that it was it wasn't just the puzzle that did it for you that really stuck in you it was the whole you learned patience uh you felt uh just how much that game has stuck with you and that's one of the things like i'm looking back at my old favorite games the sly cooper games um who uh my actually my tick tock and reels are named after sly cooper um
01:14:23
Speaker
And I love some of the puzzles in there, but I also love the story. I love that, you know, how much it drew me in. It told a wonderful story. It always made me feel a little sneaky and that's what I love in life. And yeah, it's just puzzles come together and everything.
01:14:41
Speaker
Absolutely. Awesome. Wonderful. Well, Nigel, thank you so much for coming on today. I hope my puzzles that I presented weren't too torturous and hopefully now you'll, if you see something like that when you're playing D&D, you'll be ready to challenge it a little bit. Thank you so much for sharing your favorite puzzle and kind of your experiences with it.
01:15:07
Speaker
Give us a little short blurb of who you are, where they can find you, and what you're doing.
01:15:16
Speaker
Well, first of all, thank you for having me. This has been a total blast. I love chatting with you in general, but chatting about something that you are clearly passionate about and can kind of bring stuff to light has been a lot of fun. Total honor. My name is Nigel Deacon. You can find me pretty much anywhere at Nigel Sucks LMAO. I play Xander in
01:15:38
Speaker
the main story campaign for Cast Party, and I play Pond in the side story Fables of Andrea Wildacre. Come give it a listen. You can listen on any platform that you want. We're everywhere.
01:15:52
Speaker
Give us a listen. For Google Podcasts, it's actually going out. They're getting into Google Podcasts, and it's going on to YouTube Podcasts now. Just weird. Oh, OK. They did the same thing with Google+. I don't know anyone that uses Google Podcasts anyway, so it's fine.
01:16:10
Speaker
I did for a while. I did. Did you also have a Google plus account? Because I don't know. I don't. I did not have a Google plus. Yes. Definitely go check out the cast party, my friends. Obviously, if you listen to me, you should already be listening to them. They do a phenomenal job telling some beautiful stories and they have a Patreon, which you can go support free or not free, where they're
01:16:35
Speaker
Discord community is super wholesome. I don't talk in many Discord communities, and although I cause havoc in that one, it's always fun to be there. So everyone, the theme song that was not sung by me, that was actually sung by a professional, was done by the dungeon maestro on TikTok and Instagram. Go check them out. Come back in two weeks when I'm doing another episode that I don't know what's actually on right now. I'll figure that out.
01:17:06
Speaker
soon hopefully it'll be out in two weeks it's awesome i've already heard it it's so good the puzzle of what am i going to do next um other than that my friends thank you so much for listening today have fun do your best and remember i believe in you