Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Heat (1995)
0 Plays2 seconds ago
This week on the Everything Actioncast, Zach and Chris plan to take down some scores and discuss 1995's Heat, which is celebrating its 30th anniversary.
Based on his earlier TV movie L.A. Takedown, Michael Mann's Heat is a crime/heist classic that has inspired countless films and video games since. Robert De Niro plays criminal Neil McCauley, who leads a group of professional thieves taking down scores in Los Angeles. At the same time, Al Pacino plays Detective Vincent Hanna, the cop pursuing Neil and his gang. Both men are focused on their chosen profession at the expense of everything else, including their personal relationships, and a face-off between them is inevitable. Zach and Chris discuss why Neil would allow a psycho like Waingro (Kevin Gage) on his crew, the cast full of recognizable faces, Pacino outbursts, the epic bank shootout, and more.
You can watch Heat on Paramount+. Next week, Zach and Chris are closing out 2025 by running down their favorite and least favorite movies of the year.
We want to hear your comments and feedback. Send them all to contact@everythingaction.com. Also, let us know your suggestions for movies for us to discuss.
Please subscribe, rate, and review us on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or wherever you get podcasts. You can also find the podcast on YouTube.
Check us out on Twitter (@evaction), Facebook (www.facebook.com/everything.action), and Instagram (@everything.action).
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Everything Astrocast
00:00:19
Zach Sheets
Hello and welcome to the Everything Astrocast podcast week of December 15th, 2025. I'm your host, Zach.
00:00:25
Chris Prime
I'm your co-host, Chris.
30th Anniversary of 'Heat'
00:00:27
Zach Sheets
And this week we are taking down some scores and talking about 1995's Heat, which is celebrating its 30th anniversary. came out in December 1995. ninety ninety five And yeah, one of Michael Mann's, I don't know, like probably his best film.
Michael Mann's Filmmaking Style
00:00:42
Zach Sheets
would Would you say, Chris?
00:00:44
Chris Prime
One of his best. I mean, he's got... Well,
00:00:45
Zach Sheets
I mean, he's got so many great movies.
00:00:49
Chris Prime
he's got, like, ones he directed and ones he's executive produced.
00:00:54
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:00:54
Chris Prime
So... They all are a little different, but they all have like a definitely like his unique take on filmmaking that does make him like a very auteur director.
00:01:11
Chris Prime
But he is, I think, arguably the more recognizable one just because it was like it's been referenced like so much. especially for like a very niche crime drama. like If you think crime drama, Michael Mann's like high up there on that list.
00:01:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah, i was thinking, especially like re-watching it again, i don't know if I'd call this heist movie. it's I mean, it's it's like a like yeah like said it's it's like a crime drama. it's not Because a heist movie, I feel like it has more planning. You get to see like the entire planning process. And then they don't really they don't really get into that here. I mean, they're pulling heists, but it's not like the whole movie isn't like leading up to like a big heist.
00:01:51
Chris Prime
oh In fact, the heists go well. really like the The actual heisting goes really well.
00:01:56
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:01:58
Chris Prime
Everything else around it is where things go wrong, and that's the drama part. and I think Michael Mann was smart to just make a movie based on the the criminal life more so than the act of the glorifying the thievery part.
00:02:19
Chris Prime
So, yeah, like, I think, like, I actually thought growing up, I think I thought this was like a heist movie. And I think a lot of people probably thought of it.
Evolution from 'LA Takedown'
00:02:28
Chris Prime
But in terms of heist movies now, it's like the heist is just like kind of simple.
00:02:35
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it's not it's not an Ocean's movie where it's all about the setup and the planning and then you see like the execution of it. it's like this is This is more about like the characters and their like lives and then Every once in a while, they're than it's like they pull like a crime.
00:02:50
Chris Prime
Yeah. In fact, like, you kind of get, like, side characters who I think are just designed just to, like, for humor or or it's just, like, distractions.
00:03:08
Chris Prime
Because there's, like, there's a lot of focus on trying to get... like the sympathy for both sides, you know?
00:03:17
Chris Prime
And then the movie goes, okay, well, let's take a side break and follow like a serial killer for like one scene.
00:03:17
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:03:23
Zach Sheets
Yeah. and and And a lot a lot of this side stuff was it in the original movie, which was 1989's LA Takedown, which was Michael Mann trying to make a TV show.
00:03:36
Zach Sheets
So he basically, they they made a pilot for NBC, then NBC passed on the making it the show, but they said, well, we'll make this like a special like TV movie. And so LA Takedown is the original Heats.
Cast and Characters in 'Heat'
00:03:50
Zach Sheets
it's but it's where It's basically like the El Mariachi to Heat's Desperado.
00:03:56
Chris Prime
Yeah, but at least El Maharachi is sort of a, like almost a prequel movie. It's supposed to be like sort of, and this it's the like the same character.
00:04:10
Chris Prime
But yeah, the Michael Mann one is completely like a pilot idea. And i mean, it's definitely like you had to know.
00:04:21
Chris Prime
that this was a pilot movie that he expanded.
00:04:22
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:04:23
Chris Prime
I feel like, uh, I'm not sure he talked a lot about it. Like, I think I only knew about that, like, in the last 12 years, that Heat was based on some other, like, production.
00:04:35
Chris Prime
It wasn't, like, a script that sat on a shelf, or it was, like, a stage play. It was, like, a full-on, they made a thing, and then, for whatever reason, NBC was just like, nah, we don't like crime.
00:04:47
Chris Prime
what was going on in 1982? Or like 1990.
00:04:50
Zach Sheets
Well, they denied, yeah.
00:04:50
Chris Prime
Yeah. yeah
00:04:52
Zach Sheets
I guess, like, Miami Vice is winding down, obviously, like, Michael Mann was, like, the, like, created Miami Vice. And he also had, he also had a show called, was it, uh, Crime Story?
00:05:05
Zach Sheets
That was also, like, an 80s, like, crime show, but not, like, obviously was nowhere near the level of Miami Vice. But then this this would have been, like, his third kind of, like, 80s crime show.
00:05:16
Zach Sheets
And, uh, it, it, like,
00:05:16
Chris Prime
Thank you.
00:05:18
Zach Sheets
It has some famous like actors or recognizable actors i like Michael Rooker's in LA Takedown, like Daniel Baldwin's in it. Xander Berkley shows up in Heat in a small role was in it. Xander Berkley was actually Wingro in the LA Takedown.
00:05:33
Zach Sheets
So he'd like he'd have a way bigger a role in LA Takedown.
00:05:37
Zach Sheets
And it has it has a of similar, like the the overall plot is very similar. And there's like definite there's like scenes that are almost word for word. but Like it's basically got transferred transferred over to Heat.
00:05:50
Zach Sheets
But yeah, if you you if you want to watch it, it's on it's on our site right now.
00:05:51
Chris Prime
Maybe it worked.
00:05:55
Zach Sheets
it's and This speaks everything action theater. you can like watch the entire LA Takedown if you want. It was on archive.org.
00:06:01
Zach Sheets
But yeah, definitely, heat definite everything basically got upgraded for Heats, including the cast, which is just like... I can't think of another movie where it's like, basically every single character, like even like the smaller side characters, is like an extremely recognizable person.
00:06:17
Chris Prime
Yeah, this movie is crammed with a lot of actors that I don't think in today's age it would not be cheap and easy.
00:06:26
Zach Sheets
i mean, they just they just keep popping up. It's like, oh... like Henry Rollins is here now or like Jeremy Pivens here now. Loke's here.
00:06:35
Chris Prime
Okay, Jeremy Piven is hehehe. But, yeah, Tone Loke is interesting because this like peak Tone Loke era. You know, like you have a famous singer...
00:06:47
Chris Prime
in in your movie, and then it's Tone Loke, and then it's like, alright, he doesn't make a soundtrack, it's just sort of like, I think Michael Mann, which is friends with Tone Loke.
00:06:57
Zach Sheets
I mean, this is the year, like, Funky Cool Medina came out.
00:07:00
Chris Prime
Was it? I thought it came out earlier.
00:07:01
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:07:04
Chris Prime
yeah, I mean, his agent was probably just like, get Tone Loke and everything, and then... Also, was this the... Wait. What year was
Al Pacino and Robert De Niro's Collaboration
00:07:13
Chris Prime
Blank Check? 93? ninety three
00:07:14
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm. That was a couple years afterwards, yeah.
00:07:17
Chris Prime
Wait, was?
00:07:18
Zach Sheets
Yeah, that was like... Oh, no, it was before this. it was before this
00:07:24
Zach Sheets
i'm I'm still in LA takedown like mindset. You're talking about Heat. Yeah, Blank Check was... Was it 94, I think? Yeah, 94.
00:07:33
Chris Prime
Wait, wait, wait.
00:07:33
Zach Sheets
the year before... No, no. He was just in Heat.
00:07:35
Chris Prime
1980... So wait, Toneluk was also in LA Takedown?
00:07:38
Zach Sheets
no would no he was he was he was just in heat
00:07:42
Chris Prime
Okay. That's crazy. It's like, they I get like, okay, you're telling me in 1989, they made the LA takedown and they had Tone Loke as like a side character.
00:07:52
Chris Prime
That makes sense, right?
00:07:54
Zach Sheets
hu
00:07:54
Chris Prime
And then out of respect, they brought back that scene again and they brought back Tone Loke.
00:07:59
Zach Sheets
yeah the only character that actually like appeared in both is i think Seander Berkley he directed directed the video from Falky to Obadina
00:08:05
Chris Prime
Damn. you imagine just Tone Loke? He's like, yeah, man, I'm friends of Michael, man. i'll I'll be in your movie. I was,
00:08:14
Chris Prime
So wait a minute. So when he did Blank Check, Funky Cool Medina didn't even come out yet?
00:08:18
Zach Sheets
it would have been out by then
00:08:22
Zach Sheets
i think i think think I think most of, like, but like tunnel logs all like his all this big songs came out, and then he was just like, I'm i'm an actor now. I'm a full actor now. Because he was in, like, Ace Ventura. He was in Blank Check.
00:08:34
Chris Prime
Surf Ninja.
00:08:35
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:08:36
Chris Prime
And then Heat. I think Heat is like, that's it. After that, I don't know what have to tell him, Luke.
00:08:43
Zach Sheets
I was in a scene with Al Pacino. peaked. I peaked.
00:08:47
Zach Sheets
But obviously Heat, like the like the you got the duo of Al Pacino, Robert de Niro, which, i mean, and the the the big selling point was that this is the first time they were like in a movie, in scenes together, because they were in Godfather Part II together, but then they weren't they were totally separate storylines. Like, De Niro was in the the prequel storyline, and Pacino was doing his own thing.
00:09:09
Zach Sheets
So this is like the big on-screen together a showdown.
00:09:15
Chris Prime
i It was nice because, you know, at the time, these two big actors, they were in demand.
00:09:25
Chris Prime
And I believe Scent of a Woman came out a year prior to this, so they let Pacino just sort of go crazy.
00:09:35
Zach Sheets
yeah i was i was re-watching it i'm like oh and there's a couple of scenes like but she was like more so like so do you remember and then as the movie goes on it's like oh no yeah she is going and insane and
00:09:47
Zach Sheets
I read like read there was going be like a side plot where Vincent Hanna does cocaine. That's why he's like going like going nuts. But then he cut it out of the movie. But then i think Maschino still kind of was like acting with that as like his like getting in like the background. Like, my guy's on coke.
00:10:06
Zach Sheets
So it keeps the edge.
00:10:08
Chris Prime
Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen to, like, if they made him also kind of be on Hinge, and then that explains, like, three fa malet three failed marriages, like, his his need to bust, like, what to work with, like, guess criminals, like, and hang out with Tone Loke.
00:10:22
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:10:32
Chris Prime
Like, there could have been,
00:10:33
Zach Sheets
Go to club like 2 a.m. just to get like a so a little bit information.
00:10:37
Chris Prime
And then like a brick of coke.
00:10:39
Chris Prime
But I mean, without it, it's sort of it makes sense why he's so hypervillagent. But like, it doesn't quite like his need to be hardball detective doesn't quite make sense when he just looks like a really cool like L.A.
00:10:55
Chris Prime
like agent. is I don't know about. at the time where they still dress like this but almost all the cops like they they all are very stylish
00:11:08
Zach Sheets
yeah i i would say like a carryover from like my advice you know make mans like yeah the cops got to be like have like flashy suits like these are like the the rock stars of the police force
00:11:19
Chris Prime
yeah like they felt like it and but thing is all of them just look like like Not businessmen, traditional sense, but they all look like they wouldn't be cops.
00:11:32
Chris Prime
Because they're all wearing like very like fine Italian suits. But, especially Pacino. I forget that he's a cop because he doesn't come off as like a cop. Like, De Niro looks like a cop.
00:11:46
Chris Prime
Like, if anything, you flip the two.
00:11:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:11:51
Chris Prime
But Al Pacino being a cop is always like hilarious to me.
00:11:55
Zach Sheets
It was also...
00:11:55
Chris Prime
Especially you like that that error.
00:11:57
Zach Sheets
It's also, but it's like he's, but he's like, it also seems like he would be like a, like a super, like a bad lieutenant, like corrupt cop.
00:12:05
Chris Prime
But he's not. That's the great.
00:12:06
Zach Sheets
But he's not, like he like, he's like, he's like a dedicated, like, I ridding the world of bad guys.
00:12:06
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:12:11
Zach Sheets
I'm like, keep making the world safe. Like, I will, take I will take, I'm sacrificing my personal life to like, keep like stop criminals.
Character Dynamics and Personal Flaws
00:12:18
Zach Sheets
good Because just, yeah, just because like his like demeanor, like his like, his like over the top attitude, you'd be like, Oh, this guy's like taking bribes and like, like people like, like beating people down to get confessions and stuff like that.
00:12:30
Zach Sheets
But he's not yet. He's like, he's a solid, just just like flamboyant cop.
00:12:37
Zach Sheets
And then like, and then the near, like Neil McCauley is like the complete opposite of just like super reserved, super cautious, super tactical. Not, only taking like like risks if it like if if it thinks they're going to get away with it.
00:12:53
Chris Prime
Yeah. the I like the cold calculated look in this movie. Everything feels very professional. Every every character feels of professional when it comes to like the crime part. or Everything else that isn't related to the crime is just sort of chaos.
00:13:10
Zach Sheets
well And that that makes even more weird when to kick out the whole movie... that like neil mc Neil and his crew are robbing like an armored truck, and then they bring in Wayne Grow, because they need another person.
00:13:24
Zach Sheets
And it really jumped out to me this time that like why would they even allow Wayne Grow to join the like them their crew? Because you you if find out through the whole movie that Wayne Grow is like a psychopath. He's a serial killer. like He's a loose cannon. He's unhinged.
00:13:42
Zach Sheets
all All things that like Neil would be like, no, we're not. like Typically opposite of what he wants in his in his crew.
00:13:49
Zach Sheets
like who like who vetted him or vouched for him and be like, yeah, I know this guy. This guy's good for our crew. This tatted up psychopath. Yeah.
00:13:59
Chris Prime
Well, okay, tatted-up psychopath isn't like... I mean, again, it's the criminal underworld, so it's it's not like they are looking for Boy Scouts all the time.
00:14:05
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:14:10
Chris Prime
In fact...
00:14:10
Zach Sheets
But he has, I mean, he has, like, Nazi tattoos, so...
00:14:13
Chris Prime
But day he does?
00:14:14
Zach Sheets
On his chest when he's in, like, that hotel scene, and you see he's, like, a just a big swastika on his chest.
00:14:19
Chris Prime
I didn't know that one.
00:14:19
Zach Sheets
Yeah, so, I mean, weight and white supremacist to his, like, white supremacist Nazi to, like, his list of, like, negative traits...
00:14:28
Chris Prime
That makes it even more strange later when they you pretty much like like he's friends with someone in that crew and it's like a multi-ethnic crew.
00:14:40
Zach Sheets
i did I'm not even sure he like knows anyone that crew. like I don't know. It's just a mystery of like who recommended him to like be be like the their like fifth man or whatever they need.
00:14:52
Zach Sheets
like you like You're thinking it's Danny Trejo, but they they don't actually say that. it's That's kind of just a guess.
00:15:01
Zach Sheets
I mean, it could also be like John Voight, because he's their... like he kind of like gets all their jobs for them and kind of like is like their information person. So maybe like he'd be like, Hey, I heard about this guy. You guys, you know, you guys need a crew member. Like this guy might work. He's a little, he's a little psycho, but.
00:15:17
Zach Sheets
Cause like, like Tom Sizemore picks him up and he doesn't know who he is. He's like, oh yeah, it's like are you Mike? He's like, yeah. then like And then Neil has probably never met him until like the the job starts. and it's just It's a weird situation for this like very tight, very precise professional crew to like let let this this guy no one knows in.
00:15:40
Zach Sheets
and yeah he's And he's like the downfall of like the entire crew.
00:15:43
Chris Prime
Oh, yeah.
00:15:45
Chris Prime
It's so funny to think that, like, Robert de Niro figures out that he shouldn't get him, like, at the end. You know, even then, it's like, they don't... they Because it's, like, the one leak in their plan, they totally, like, ignore going after him immediately.
00:16:05
Chris Prime
They're like, alright, on to the next thing.
00:16:07
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Because Waingrohe... You get the the awesome armored truck heist, but like they smash the tow truck into the armored truck, and then they're all in their like awesome like hockey mask outfits. They have these like cool masks, and they break into the truck and steal the bearer bonds. But then Waingrohe is like helping like Tom Sizemore hold the the guards hostage, and he's just like...
00:16:36
Zach Sheets
but but One of the guys is not even doing anything, he's kind of like walking toward him, and Wingo is just like freaking out at him, and his buddy is like, hey, step back, step back, and then he shoots him. And then they have to like waste all three guards, which they like if they they're trying to avoid like killing anyone, but then Wingo just pops off and kills them.
Strategic Elements of 'Heat'
00:16:56
Zach Sheets
And so that, when they get to the heist, they're like, Robert De Niro's just like, yeah, kill this motherfucker. He's like a psycho loose cannon.
00:17:06
Zach Sheets
But then he...
00:17:06
Chris Prime
Yeah, yeah that the which is the, like, i guess
00:17:07
Zach Sheets
We...
00:17:12
Chris Prime
I guess the the issue there was that they didn't immediately like kill him now and then. like They were like, are we gotta be professional for like or the whole heist, or else it's like too risky.
00:17:24
Zach Sheets
we we have to We have to get this trunk covered in garbage bags. Because they have, like, they bring it outside, like, they travel outside with the of the cars, and it's like it's full, it's, like, lined with plastic, so this their plane was, like, ready to go.
00:17:37
Zach Sheets
Like, shoot him, dump him in the trunk.
00:17:42
Zach Sheets
But then he manage to get he managed to escape because, like, like a cop car drives past, and, like, you know, like Neil's super cautious about the cops, but then he's distracted looking at the cop car, somehow Wingrove gets away from them and then is like vanishes for like the rest of the movie until they track him down again later.
00:17:59
Zach Sheets
But yeah, they're they're kind of just like, oh, well, he got away. All right. i guess on the next next couple things. This won't come back and bite us.
00:18:07
Chris Prime
Yeah, like that's what I'm saying. For like a crew, they really move fast into the new problem and then they slow down with it.
00:18:17
Zach Sheets
Well, it's crazy because they had multiple jobs happening at once. they So they had like this armored truck robbery, and then they get the bearer bonds, and then they decide, well, we're going to sell the bearer bonds back to the guy that we sold up who owns them because they're insured. So he he gets paid for the insurance, and then he'll he'll make money. or like He'll get them back and then make money on the deal.
00:18:39
Chris Prime
Yeah, that they do a quick game where it's like, okay, hey, we do this and then this. The guy actually gains money for cheaper if he just goes through us so no one loses. It's like not perfect crime, but it's like perfect fraud.
00:18:55
Zach Sheets
yeah which Which the guy is William Fickner. It's just like, yeah, every every every side character is yeah just super recognized person. And then they also are planning a a heist of like a precious metals depository so they can steal platinum and stuff like that.
00:19:14
Zach Sheets
And then they get and they get the the the big like bank job.
00:19:19
Zach Sheets
from like like John Voight is like, hey, I know this guy who's like got this bank job. that's like could be pulling like like eight figures
00:19:29
Chris Prime
Which, like, the planning is just like, they just do it.
00:19:32
Zach Sheets
yeah well so so yeah so like like gill goes to meet with tom noonan who uh kelso who's just like i guess he's like a hacker because he's just like i pull it from the air man it's just like also just like floating out there gotta know how to pull it down so i guess he's like an early like computer hacker like like
00:19:48
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:19:51
Zach Sheets
But he gets he gets like every possible like blueprint and document for this bank. So they have a full... I think Neil at one point is like, we could build a bank with these plans.
00:20:04
Zach Sheets
So have they have an extremely thorough like plan for like this bank heist.
00:20:09
Zach Sheets
But then what's crazy is that the but like that bank heist in like the famous shootout is like way deep into the movie. It's it's like it's two hours from this point.
00:20:18
Zach Sheets
Which I totally forgot. i thought i was like I thought that was more in the middle like middle part of the movie. But yeah, there's so much other stuff that happens before that
00:20:26
Chris Prime
growing up, I thought the shootout happens like act two, but you have to earn that shootout for like an hour
00:20:33
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
Depth Beyond Crime in 'Heat'
00:20:34
Chris Prime
of side things.
00:20:35
Chris Prime
And then just, I guess like you get to watch De Niro go on dates. Um, dates.
00:20:42
Zach Sheets
When you follow, everybody's personal lives. you know like Val Kilmer, like he's having troubles with his like marriage with Ashley Judd. And then Pacino, his marriage is falling apart.
00:20:57
Zach Sheets
He's got like young Natalie Portman as his neurotic stepdaughter.
00:21:02
Chris Prime
Okay, so like, does he not live at home with them?
00:21:07
Zach Sheets
I think he lives at home, but he's he's just constantly has to, like, he's leaving because he's, like, you know, he's got his pager, and he's just, like, constantly going to to like, investigate crimes or work.
00:21:16
Chris Prime
And then, does Natalie Portman doesn't live at home? Or she does?
00:21:20
Zach Sheets
She does. And there's there's a whole thing where like her actual dad is like, a deadbeat dad who never shows up
00:21:27
Chris Prime
I thought the twist later on, based on how the structure is, is that it's Robert De Niro.
00:21:32
Chris Prime
Right? Didn't it feel that way?
00:21:34
Zach Sheets
Like there's like that it comes up like i in like the like the famous like cafe scene. It's like, I got a daughter. I never never met her, but...
00:21:42
Chris Prime
keep blowing her off, bla bla blah blah blah. For crime.
00:21:45
Zach Sheets
like yes like like He specifically mentioned something that like like they said Danny Portman's dad was supposed to be at, like a play or something, or like a sports... Some sort of like school event. It's like, yeah, my daughter... I never seen my daughter. like There's a school thing I had to go to, but I wasn't able to make it because I had to take down a score.
00:22:04
Chris Prime
like That would have been another movie.
00:22:09
Zach Sheets
yeah but That would have been too complicated too convenient.
00:22:11
Chris Prime
Yeah. Yeah, i think it's just too convenient. I like that it's not connected, but it would have been like a whole different movie in tone. It might have been even a family comedy if you threw in the the like you know the stepdad and the real dad and the Natalie Portmish. But I love both my dads.
00:22:33
Zach Sheets
surprised Xander Berkley wasn't the stepdad.
00:22:36
Chris Prime
I thought he was too.
00:22:36
Zach Sheets
like the real dad.
00:22:36
Chris Prime
i thought that was the surprise.
00:22:37
Zach Sheets
Like, he's... he's He's just like another random dude shows up.
00:22:42
Chris Prime
But he looks... Okay, Xander Berkley looks like how he does from Terminator 2.
00:22:47
Zach Sheets
Hmm.
00:22:48
Chris Prime
So, I'm not saying it's a connected universe, but I feel like Heat comes first, then Terminator 2.
00:22:54
Zach Sheets
but
00:22:57
Chris Prime
Yeah, but it's it's so funny that Xander Berkley isn't bit actor. Like, he's been in things. but he's just got like one role in this movie.
00:23:03
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:23:06
Chris Prime
He's just guy on couch.
00:23:06
Zach Sheets
One scene, yeah. once's One scene to get yelled at by Pacino, and Pacino takes his TV back. He's like, you can fuck my wife, you can eat my food, but you can't eat my tv Or you can't watch my TV!
00:23:18
Chris Prime
You can't watch my TV.
00:23:20
Zach Sheets
can't watch TV! And he just steals the TV. And he just throws it at his car door onto the street.
00:23:27
Chris Prime
you know how much that TV cost back then? It's probably like... It's probably like $100.
00:23:34
Zach Sheets
Probably. Probably.
00:23:35
Chris Prime
That's LA money.
00:23:35
Zach Sheets
like a port For like a portable TV?
00:23:37
Chris Prime
No, not affordable. Just like a countertop TV. Teaching TV, that's it.
00:23:41
Zach Sheets
Like a kitchen TV? Yeah.
00:23:43
Chris Prime
yeah Which they just stopped making like in 1998. eight Well, they became like the DVD VCR combo ones where it's built in.
00:23:51
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:23:52
Chris Prime
But then after 2005, they just no longer made those TVs anymore.
00:23:57
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it's it's your phone or your iPad now.
00:24:00
Chris Prime
It's so funny, you make another scene of that where it's like, you remake that scene. I pull a Michael Mann, I put that scene back into another project I have.
00:24:08
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:24:09
Chris Prime
Except he's like, you you fuck my wife, you eat my food, but you can't watch my iPad.
00:24:13
Zach Sheets
My iPad.
00:24:13
Chris Prime
It just and takes it
00:24:16
Zach Sheets
he chucks out the window.
00:24:19
Zach Sheets
then like, and also like, like, Hey Kazaria shows up in this movie too.
00:24:24
Chris Prime
That is... Again, just it's just so weird because Hank Azaria, great actor, great like character range. you know He's a great voice actor.
00:24:35
Chris Prime
i i start recently re-watched Brockmire on Netflix.
00:24:39
Zach Sheets
Is
00:24:41
Chris Prime
and that does not come off in 1995 Hank Azaria. just He's just sort of like... He's playing like a scummy guy that somehow...
00:24:52
Chris Prime
like, landed Ashley Judd.
00:24:56
Zach Sheets
is is he able to pull Ashley Judd from Val Kilmer?
00:24:59
Chris Prime
Yeah, but it's, this movie has a theme of, desperate women.
00:25:07
Chris Prime
It doesn't, all the only, like, female character who isn't desperate is, i think, Tom Sizemore's wife. Like, her character.
00:25:14
Zach Sheets
Just in one scene, yeah.
00:25:16
Chris Prime
But she's like happily married. I don't know if she realizes that she's like married to a criminal. But I mean I think she does.
00:25:22
Zach Sheets
Yeah. i think I think that's like like that that's like the you the mobs. like They know, they know but they don't want to know. It's like, don't tell like i know I know you're a criminal, but like don't the just bring it up.
00:25:28
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:25:31
Chris Prime
Don't bring it home.
00:25:32
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:25:34
Chris Prime
But like. All the other female characters. All have little like. Like. I guess. like, issues that they're dealing with.
00:25:49
Chris Prime
So, and don't know. I'm just thinking about, like, Ashley Judd, she blames Chris's, like, criminal career. That's why she her marriage is failing, but she doesn't want to tell him.
00:25:59
Zach Sheets
and he's well he's and And he's also, like he's, like, a a gambler, so he's, he's like, gambling all way all the money that he gets from these heists to, like...
00:26:07
Chris Prime
I mean, it's like has to keep heisting in a order to pay off his gambling debts.
00:26:10
Zach Sheets
Yeah, mm-hmm.
00:26:12
Chris Prime
but it's crazy It's crazy amount of money he's getting tax-free. and then he just like Where does he go with like this giant stack of money?
00:26:20
Zach Sheets
i think he I think he mentions when he shows up at De Niro's house, he's like, oh, I i lost most of it in like the Super Bowl in like Vegas. So he like he like gambled. He lost a bunch and then also been in the Super and lost.
00:26:30
Zach Sheets
No.
00:26:33
Chris Prime
yeah so like He's just not a good gambler.
00:26:33
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:26:35
Chris Prime
He's a good heister, but he's a terrible gambler.
00:26:35
Zach Sheets
no
00:26:38
Zach Sheets
He's a like, yeah, he's like a, like, like the greatest, like, weapons expert. Because, you know, obviously the is the thing with this movie where his, like, gun handling is used like, train Marines still. Like, they show that the shootout scene, like, look at how Valkyrie reloads his gun. you You need to load his gun like he does.
00:27:01
Chris Prime
Never say who trained Val Kilmer. I think they just like, he definitely was they probably went to like, you know, an acting training thing. And Val Kilmer just paid attention around this time because I'm correct, this is the same error of Dr. Monroe divorce Kilmer.
00:27:18
Zach Sheets
Oh, like the island of Dr. Moreau? Yeah.
00:27:21
Chris Prime
Right? It's like the same time.
00:27:23
Chris Prime
no no, actually, sorry.
00:27:24
Zach Sheets
This is...
00:27:25
Chris Prime
This is pre-Batman.
00:27:26
Zach Sheets
but This is the same year as Batman.
00:27:28
Chris Prime
Holy shit.
00:27:30
Chris Prime
Well, Dr. Monroe was like 94? Or
00:27:33
Zach Sheets
That was...
00:27:35
Chris Prime
like 97, 96. seven ninety six
00:27:38
Zach Sheets
Yeah, and he's 6, so you're after.
00:27:40
Chris Prime
Okay, so Val Kilmer's marriage is like on the rocks, just like Chris. And I think he just became this character. Like, you that's why.
00:27:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I need to dedicate all my time to like learning how to like load this M16.
00:27:54
Chris Prime
And then blow my money on bad sports betting. And this is bad sports betting back then, where you had to go to a cage and write a form. You know, like you didn't...
00:28:04
Zach Sheets
Yes, it's not like all the apps we have now. actually drive to like building. Yeah.
00:28:10
Chris Prime
A legit casino.
00:28:10
Zach Sheets
building yeah
00:28:11
Chris Prime
Yeah, you have to drink like you to go to a sports like building. And some casinos back then didn't associate with that. So it was a separate entity, kind of like horse track betting.
00:28:23
Chris Prime
Uh, but it's just, it's funny to think that like, if you made this, re you remade this movie today, just Chris is blowing money on a phone app.
00:28:32
Zach Sheets
like, you parlayed what? How many parlays did you make?
00:28:37
Chris Prime
Like I thought the football would go into the stands. Just dumb bets.
00:28:45
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:28:47
Chris Prime
Uh, but yeah, it, His thing is that he just he loves his family, but he doesn't know how to be a family person.
00:28:56
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Because he's too addicted. the the but thing is like that everyone' is too all the all these men are like too focused on... they're like They're obsessed with their job. Whether whether it's catching criminals or like pulling taking down scores.
00:29:12
Chris Prime
and And being with women who have issues. I don't know. i just It's hilarious to think that like later on in this movie, it becomes a drama of figuring out which like girlfriend or spouse just one-ups their own problems at home.
00:29:16
Zach Sheets
is it
00:29:27
Zach Sheets
I mean, what Amy Brampton doesn't have, like, that many problems, does she?
00:29:32
Chris Prime
Well, she's like drawn to the mystery of Robert De Niro.
00:29:35
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:29:36
Chris Prime
She's just like, ooh, you're so like direct.
00:29:39
Zach Sheets
Because she's kind of stock she's like kind of in the low-key stockium because she works at the bookstore. And then she's like, i saw you i've I've seen you come in a couple times.
00:29:47
Chris Prime
Yeah, looking at books.
00:29:47
Zach Sheets
So she's like noticed him. Yeah.
00:29:50
Zach Sheets
guess like like is that like de niro is coming and like like because's he buys a book on like metal like because it's for it's for like the like precious metals heist. He buys a book and like metal, like at the bookstore.
00:30:02
Chris Prime
It's so funny to think that you can't really do that now. Like, if you go to a big box store, they're not going care who comes in and looks at what book. But whatever boutique store he went to in L.A.,
00:30:11
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:30:15
Chris Prime
that the store worker was just like, ooh, that guy's cute.
00:30:19
Zach Sheets
And he goes to it regularly enough that yeah that she noticed him. like That he's like a regular. Which I feel like...
00:30:24
Chris Prime
I'm like, De Niro messed up.
00:30:25
Zach Sheets
i've
00:30:25
Chris Prime
Why don't you just go to a library? Why do you have to go to a bookstore?
00:30:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah, feel isn't that like Criminal 101? Don't have routines. like Go to different places. Go take different routes. like Don't make go' become... like a Have something you can like track. Yeah.
00:30:38
Chris Prime
Yeah. Like, this amateur like detective girl was able to figure out that there was something up with this guy.
00:30:45
Zach Sheets
I do like when they're at the restaurant meeting for the first time he's basically acting like are you a cop? like why are you talking to me? you a cop?
00:30:56
Chris Prime
It's funny i think that's how I still talk to some people just because I'm like, this sounds suspicious while talking to me.
00:31:03
Chris Prime
But maybe not like that. Maybe not De Niro. It's a good like life lesson, especially in LA where like it still could be a scam. you know like yeah Keep your head on a swivel where it's like you live in a very high-popular metropolitan area that is notorious full of like issues.
00:31:12
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:31:23
Chris Prime
He's part of the criminal underworld. He doesn't know this girl is a hit woman.
00:31:26
Zach Sheets
it could be anything and he also i mean also he has obviously has like it was code where it's don't don't be attached anything that you can't leave in 30 seconds if you see the heat coming around the corner
00:31:39
Chris Prime
He brings that up like twice or three times in this movie.
00:31:41
Zach Sheets
Which his entire crew totally fails at. Like, no one's following that philosophy except for him. Because they're they're all...
00:31:47
Chris Prime
No, no, no. Chris does.
00:31:50
Zach Sheets
Yes. But I'm saying, like, he was married. Like, it's like an agony for him. Like, De Niro has no furniture.
00:31:58
Chris Prime
Oh, he's no detection.
00:31:59
Zach Sheets
he has no attachments. Like, else is everyone else's crew is, like, married like, children and wives.
00:32:05
Chris Prime
Well, that was the...
00:32:05
Zach Sheets
So they...
00:32:06
Chris Prime
Everyone's weakness was a woman.
00:32:08
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:32:09
Chris Prime
That's why Niro is the perfect criminal, because he's a ghost and he can definitely like move on and survive. That's why it's hilarious to think that Chris was just like, yeah, no, no Tom Sizemore's character made it work, so I can too.
00:32:24
Chris Prime
Tom Sizemore's character didn't have like gambling debts.
00:32:27
Zach Sheets
No. Well, Tom Sizemore's falling is that he is he's he like he loves the like action the action. The action is the juice.
00:32:38
Zach Sheets
like he He doesn't really care about the money. like He cares about like the adrenaline of like actually pulling heists.
00:32:43
Zach Sheets
like The money is like a bonus.
00:32:43
Chris Prime
I mean, I get it. like he just Plus, like the crew seems effective. The crew is solid. So it wasn't like that was the first job. I don't know how long they've been heisting together for.
00:32:57
Zach Sheets
Well, in in Heat 2, the book, that will soon be a movie, they they've been together since like 88, at least, because that's when like the prequel part of the book is set.
00:32:57
Chris Prime
But
00:33:08
Chris Prime
I mean, that's that's a long time. That's years of them doing heists together.
00:33:11
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:33:13
Chris Prime
And we're we're we're following them on the last heist, ten like the last round of heist.
00:33:18
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:33:19
Chris Prime
And I get it. They didn't want to really lean into
Influence on Later Crime Films
00:33:22
Chris Prime
the romance of crime and the honor between thieves just because that's not the focus.
00:33:33
Chris Prime
And also, again...
00:33:36
Chris Prime
I get like how some stories, they don't... like Nowadays, they do it better of trying to like ground the thieves. But i here, I could see how audiences wanted to see like action and and and more like to live and die in LA.
00:33:56
Chris Prime
Did you ever see that movie?
00:33:58
Zach Sheets
I've heard, I haven't seen it.
00:34:00
Chris Prime
Okay. It's like faster pace, where just like everyone's sort of a gray character, so like no one's good. And then... You get the, like, I don't know why, like, l L.A.
00:34:11
Chris Prime
crime movies always have this, but it's like they're all, like, in a, like, out a new age outlaw covered in neon, at least back in the 80s. And now in the ninety s it's just, like, green filter tints.
00:34:27
Zach Sheets
Well, like Michael Mann loves LA at night. like it's it's He's all about just like shooting you like like like everything at night in LA. Unlike the street actual streets of
00:34:35
Chris Prime
Is it weird that... right Yeah, yeah, but like I'm saying, like does l L.A. now still embrace the crime life? Where it's like, we have so many movies about like our crime. Our crime is so awesome. Because, like, Moscow Man made at least four movies about l L.A. that have to do with crime. yeah Even Public Enemies, I think, was...
00:34:59
Zach Sheets
but that was those those Wasn't that more like the like the Midwest?
00:34:59
Chris Prime
L.A.?
00:34:59
Chris Prime
Midwest?
00:35:02
Chris Prime
Midwest?
00:35:03
Zach Sheets
Wasn't it like Dillinger running around Kansas and stuff? I don't think he was in big cities.
00:35:10
Chris Prime
No, he got killed in a big city.
00:35:12
Zach Sheets
In like Chicago or something, probably.
00:35:14
Chris Prime
Maybe. think Chicago. i I gotta look it up again. It's been a while.
00:35:17
Zach Sheets
i don't i don't think i' the he was on West Coast or East Coast.
00:35:17
Chris Prime
but
00:35:20
Zach Sheets
I think he was in the middle part of America. like Maybe like Chicago down. Dillinger was running around.
00:35:24
Chris Prime
Okay, okay but then okay. Then it's better to say that Michael Mann loves like cities or crime. Like, crime cities.
00:35:30
Zach Sheets
Yes. professional professional Professional men who respect each other in in at night pull like doing some sort of crime.
00:35:44
Chris Prime
Yeah, that's perfect like summary of, I think, like half his library of movies.
00:35:52
Chris Prime
yeah That's why I'm like thinking there hasn't been another Michael Mann-style movie that he's made that isn't a crime movie. I would love to see some crazy movie that in the same style as Heat or Miami Vice, but it's just like a kid's movie where it's like a bake sale or something.
00:36:13
Zach Sheets
I was going to say, like yeah, because so many movies have tried to copy Heat, and then I don't i don't know if anyone's and actually like lived up to Heat.
00:36:21
Chris Prime
the town.
00:36:23
Zach Sheets
i mean, Town, i mean, Den of Thieves.
00:36:26
Chris Prime
Den Thieves, it's like a the next-gen heat.
00:36:28
Zach Sheets
is like it like is like It's like is' like the bro is like the Jim Bro version
00:36:32
Chris Prime
Yeah, yeah, no, see that's what I'm saying. Like, they... I'll get into the, like, the influence after the movies that came post-heat, where it's like, okay, you can definitely feel the heat inspiration, but...
00:36:47
Chris Prime
Yeah, there been like other attempts. and I think the town is the closest to a Heat-like movie because it's not really about the heists. It's sort of like the people that do heisting and the people that stop heisters.
00:37:03
Chris Prime
That's sort of the point of Heat.
00:37:07
Zach Sheets
i feel like like specifically too like so many people tried to like copy like the diner scene like so especially if you have like two like huge actors and they've never been like in the movie before so yeah you get like like we're gonna do a heat scene where you have these two actors in a scene together
00:37:23
Chris Prime
get what you mean.
00:37:26
Zach Sheets
Because, I mean, that's like, outside of like the shootout, like like that's like the biggest scene of Heat is De Niro and Pacino sitting down and having some coffee, talking about, like, I respect you, but if you get my way, i'm I'm going to kill you.
00:37:39
Zach Sheets
And yeah, yeah then I feel there's like any sort of like big crime drama, if there's like a like a big star was a cop, big star was the the criminal, they have like some sort of sit down before things blow up.
00:37:53
Chris Prime
Was that the first time they had that? or For like...
00:37:58
Zach Sheets
I don't if this is first time happened, but this is, I mean, it's definitely, this is like the most famous, and I feel like everyone's kind chasing this one, if they if they do a scene like that.
00:37:58
Chris Prime
a you
00:38:04
Chris Prime
True. And also, it's kind of awkwardly edited.
00:38:08
Zach Sheets
Like, what, cutting back and forth when they're in the scene?
00:38:08
Chris Prime
So... No, no, no, no. It's how they end the scene.
00:38:13
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah.
00:38:15
Chris Prime
They sort of just like, the next day, like, it might have been a a fade out if they had at least made it different. Or at least have them, like, get up and walk away or something together.
00:38:28
Chris Prime
But it's sort they just end that conversation.
00:38:28
Zach Sheets
yeah are Are you arguing about the bill? Like, all right, you're going to get, it's like I'll get it. No, I'll get it. I'll get this coffee.
00:38:35
Chris Prime
it would have been funny where, like... They just have that tit for tat because Pacino is such a like crazed man. He's like, you're for my coffee? ain't going to pay for your coffee. And then just De Niro just like, you know, being a cool guy and professional i was like, I'm going to go to the bathroom. And then he sneaks out the bathroom, skips the bill.
Portrayal of Police Procedures
00:38:57
Chris Prime
I don't know.
00:38:57
Zach Sheets
but yeah
00:38:58
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's a good scene. I think like the tension's really great, and it's just like it sets it foreshadows so much about what's going to happen and the motivation.
00:39:10
Chris Prime
And that way there's no doubt what's going to happen later. like or Or the intent.
00:39:18
Zach Sheets
and and that's like the that's like the like last big build up until like the before the shootout because then the shootout's like pretty much next scene Well, the heist then the shootout.
00:39:28
Chris Prime
Well, I like that it's a lot of cat and mount mice games between the two, and they do respect each other for that.
00:39:31
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:39:34
Zach Sheets
Yeah, do I do like like a lot of like the the way they figure out like who the crew is. like you know I think we mentioned like they they go to like one of their informants is like his cousin's Tone Loke, and Tone Loke drops like the the thing about Slick, which time-sized-sets-marrow always calls people Slick. So that's how they figure out, oh, it's this guy, Michael Cerrito. And then they they then they figure out the whole crew based on that.
00:39:56
Zach Sheets
But then the cops realize, realized oh, they've they figured out us because they're like look they're like surveilling us at like the, like the wharf or what the docks.
00:40:05
Chris Prime
But here's a question for
00:40:05
Zach Sheets
And then, and then they like,
00:40:09
Chris Prime
How did Pacino super track down Robert De Niro? it I still didn't understand how they were able to find De Niro and then just like stop him for coffee.
00:40:22
Zach Sheets
Well, they were they were surveilling the entire crew. So they had like teeth they had like teams. i think they had like I think the helicopter, was like like they like knew his car. So they they were like tracking the entire crew.
00:40:34
Zach Sheets
And so then he was like, well, I'm going to... Whoever's tracking like De Niro, let me like let me know. I'm going to arrest him or like stop him. And then we'll get some coffee.
00:40:47
Chris Prime
Okay. Because it was sort of like movie magic where he was able to like track him down that night super quick and then just like invite him out.
00:41:00
Zach Sheets
Yeah, because after they get the tip about Slick, and then they surveil the restaurant where everyone's eating, then they get like the whole, it's like, oh, here's the entire crew. like put put person Put someone every on every single person.
00:41:16
Zach Sheets
But then but but I think like the crew figures it out because they dump some of like the like tracking devices on their cars, and they they like lose some of the surveillance.
00:41:24
Chris Prime
Okay.
00:41:27
Zach Sheets
but But, I mean, Pacino's got enough guys to, like, help. i i He's got a full crew with him. so I mean, he's got enough guys to, like, track everybody.
00:41:36
Zach Sheets
Which we we we haven't mentioned, like, yet. like It's, like, Pacino's team is also just, like, super recognizable guys. It's, like, Ted Levine and Mike Helthy Williamson and Wes Studi.
00:41:47
Chris Prime
And they like the cool thing is like a lot of them have a lot of speaking roles, so they're not just like a face like xander kid Xander was.
00:41:58
Chris Prime
But, yeah, like I said, like everyone is sort of dressed nicely where they don't look like cops.
00:42:06
Chris Prime
So...
00:42:07
Zach Sheets
Well, they're major crimes, so they gotta look good. They're the superstars.
00:42:10
Chris Prime
Oh, that's what it is.
00:42:13
Zach Sheets
And they handle they handle everything. and They handle heists and homicides.
00:42:19
Zach Sheets
Which maybe, I mean, I guess maybe like if you're made your major crime is like, yeah, you handle everything.
00:42:24
Chris Prime
all sort of crime.
00:42:25
Zach Sheets
if it's If it's major enough.
00:42:28
Chris Prime
Yeah, but like, it's such a... why is Pacino the only one where his life is like, his his marriage is falling apart?
00:42:35
Zach Sheets
Oh yeah, yeah, because like his entire, his team seems like they're all in like super healthy, happy relationships. And then like his he's on his like third wife.
00:42:43
Chris Prime
Yeah. So, it's funny to think that Pacino is sort of like this like manic cop. but everyone on the crew is just sort like, no, man, we we got, like, hobbies.
00:42:57
Zach Sheets
Gotta have that work-life balance.
00:42:59
Chris Prime
Yep. Which Pagino doesn't. He just, anytime there's, like, some sort of crime, he runs out and has to stop it or be part of it, you know?
00:43:01
Zach Sheets
No.
00:43:09
Zach Sheets
Like, well...
00:43:09
Chris Prime
It's almost like he is sort of like a whacked-out vigilante, even though he's not vigilante.
00:43:09
Zach Sheets
well
00:43:14
Chris Prime
Like, he he doesn't even go rogue. He's just sort of like a good cop.
00:43:16
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:43:18
Zach Sheets
I feel like like he's the only one of his team that goes and answers like that homicide call the like like the wing girl, like, see a killer kill. Like, he's the easy' he's the only one that goes, like, from his team.
00:43:28
Chris Prime
Oh
00:43:30
Zach Sheets
No one no other part member of his team is there. And don't even think it's, like, it doesn't even seem, like, Pacino shows up is like, oh, that's that's horrible. And just, like, leaves. It's like, i don't know.
00:43:42
Zach Sheets
got other things to do. just wanted to come down see this.
00:43:46
Chris Prime
man, he doesn't even like get revenge or anything or or like bring to justice.
00:43:51
Zach Sheets
Because, yeah, because that's, it's like, that's, like, never, they probably never resolved that case. the case they They'll never know who that serial killer was.
00:43:58
Chris Prime
Yeah, even though they have him, they don't know they have him. Yeah, that's right.
00:44:00
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:44:03
Zach Sheets
Unless they do, like, I guess they have to check, like, fingerprints or, like, DNA afterwards.
00:44:10
Chris Prime
It's 1995.
00:44:10
Zach Sheets
Like, oh, yeah.
00:44:11
Chris Prime
It's, like, still, like, not perfect yet.
00:44:15
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:44:17
Chris Prime
I mean, the all they had to do was basically just, like, breathe on the fingerprints they'd go away.
00:44:22
Chris Prime
Not saying it does, but it's something that Michael Mann didn't think of that. They're just like, look. Dead. Oh, well.
00:44:32
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it was it was still a few more years before, like, like full like CSI level.
00:44:37
Chris Prime
Oh, no. it for For, like, the CSI TV show, we're, like, 2001 with CSI. So... Forensics started getting better in, like, I'm go say 97.
00:44:54
Zach Sheets
like Yeah, like, late 90s, probably, yeah. And then into, like, mm-hmm.
00:44:56
Chris Prime
Yeah, just because like you also needed a lab. A lot of police stations didn't have labs.
00:45:03
Zach Sheets
You know what, I think...
00:45:03
Chris Prime
They to send it away that takes, like, days.
00:45:06
Zach Sheets
I mean, it might have been too much, like, interesting workers, but, like, Pacino and his team, they never go to like, a lab. they There's never, like, a... We gotta get our tech guys, like, our we gotta get this evidence to, like, examine.
00:45:19
Chris Prime
Well, no, see, that's the thing about this movie. not A lot of it is just they need to see it and be like, I know what happened.
00:45:25
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:45:26
Chris Prime
it there's no...
00:45:29
Zach Sheets
And then talk to a guy.
00:45:30
Chris Prime
yeah talk to a guy, he'll get an answer. we We know this because off-screen, there was something that got the result. So now we have evidence.
00:45:40
Chris Prime
So it's never an investigation. It's just like, you either are there on the scene to figure out what happened, and then they do, and it's like, alright, well, we don't need a warrant. We're just pointing at things.
Legal Intricacies in 'Heat'
00:45:51
Chris Prime
But They do follow a procedure because they they catch De Niro's crew a couple times and they just can't do anything legally because it's like, this isn't a crime yet.
00:46:02
Zach Sheets
Well, they could't they could have caught them... at at the like the precious metals or like the whatever that like depository. But then that that idiot SWAT member like leans against the the wall with the chip in the container and like causes the sound and Nero's like, those feel they're there. So then they leave empty-handed. but So they could have got arrested for breaking and entering.
00:46:25
Zach Sheets
But then Petrino's like, no, it's not enough. the guy that like They're going to get like a dismeanor. It's going busted down. We've got to catch them like in the act.
00:46:33
Chris Prime
It's also like what you'd be like, okay, we caught you in a sting operation to capture thieves trying to steal the metal. And it's like, okay, well, did they have the metal in their hands? Like, well, no, but they were going to, they had the equipment, they had everything like,
00:46:50
Zach Sheets
They had a giant trill in there that they were using.
00:46:54
Chris Prime
you mean, tell me that's not enough to like book them for a while.
00:46:58
Zach Sheets
yeah get them Yeah, get them with the loot in their hands.
00:47:02
Chris Prime
Is that LA lol?
00:47:04
Zach Sheets
Maybe. Yeah.
00:47:05
Chris Prime
Crime there is so specific where just bringing bringing the equipment to heist something is not a crime yet. It's like a fine.
00:47:16
Chris Prime
It's like, oh, you're not allowed you know within 10 feet of a precious vault with your drill cracker. It's like, okay.
00:47:24
Zach Sheets
yeah That giant drill was there when we got there. we just We just broke in, but that drill was already there.
00:47:29
Chris Prime
Okay, I get that weird defense. Whatever. Then it's like, okay, so what about you know the evidence of you coming back and forth and all this? It's like, that's circumstantial. We just happened to plan this out and be trailed for like a few days.
00:47:50
Chris Prime
I don't know. It's like... Was that just like a weird, like either crime happens so often that they're like the court system is just bored with like general crime. It has to be very like cut and dry, almost like, oh, no, you you hit all four marks. Now now you can legally arrest them.
00:48:11
Zach Sheets
No, that was definitely like a Vincent Hanna, if I'm taking him down, taking him down for good. Like not letting them like get like maybe like a couple months in jail or like a year in jail or something. I want to like put him away for good.
00:48:25
Chris Prime
True, but because of that, like it escalates.
00:48:28
Zach Sheets
Yes, it's like like World War II on the streets of Los Angeles like like the next day or like a couple days later.
00:48:28
Chris Prime
so
00:48:34
Chris Prime
And that's not a dress. It's not like Pacino has like nightmares about that. He sort of mentioned he does. Like all the people he's hurt, but
00:48:45
Zach Sheets
Oh yeah, but they in the diner scene they mention their nightmares.
00:48:48
Chris Prime
hu but it just seems like Pacino only gets nightmares of the people he personally killed not like in general what's caused the chaos at least that's how I interpret it
00:49:02
Zach Sheets
And yet, and now we're talking about like, there's no there's no like, ramifications afterwards from the shootout. Like no one is like, there's no like, Chief being like, Hannah, what the hell? yeah You let World War II happen?
00:49:15
Chris Prime
no
00:49:15
Zach Sheets
Like, I was like, well, that was that was pretty bad. Anyway, we've been gone.
00:49:21
Chris Prime
Also, a few of Hannah's, like, teammates are killed.
00:49:24
Zach Sheets
Yeah, like, Ted Levine's dead. i want one yeah guy's when guy is injured. Like, who knows how many civilians are, like, injured or killed.
00:49:34
Chris Prime
And LA just goes back to business as usual, like, that day.
00:49:38
Zach Sheets
just, like, brief news story.
00:49:40
Chris Prime
So, there's not...
00:49:42
Zach Sheets
It's like, a brief a brief news story bank robbery went bad down in central Los Angeles today.
00:49:50
Chris Prime
Anyway, here's sports!
00:49:51
Zach Sheets
yep
00:49:53
Zach Sheets
But yeah, so but yeah it's it's pretty much the entire the entire crew except Neil and Chris get killed in that shootout too.
00:50:00
Chris Prime
Oh, you want to dive into the side story that really doesn't go anywhere? The...
00:50:06
Zach Sheets
Oh. Which one?
00:50:08
Chris Prime
Well, one with the cook who becomes the getaway driver.
00:50:12
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah, the like the other, like like, the other, like, very recognizable person, Dennis Haysbert.
00:50:17
Chris Prime
who I think at this point, his other famous role was like Major League in 94. Major League 2.
00:50:25
Chris Prime
He played the the angry baseball player that calms down.
00:50:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:50:29
Chris Prime
That's why I know him more for that first.
00:50:32
Zach Sheets
Yeah, because 24 wasn't for a while, so...
00:50:37
Chris Prime
Yeah, they they they like... This movie tells his story. and I guess, like, it's a show you that crime doesn't pay.
00:50:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah, or or just, yeah, just like, he's and he's another person, like, he's, like, just, he couldn't, he couldn't, like, keep to, a normal life, and, like, he he, he was...
00:51:01
Chris Prime
so it's the, like, it's the Sawshank Redemption part of the movie.
00:51:07
Zach Sheets
Because, like, it seems like, like, he's also, you know like, the the juices, the like, the actions of the juice kind of thing, like,
Comparisons with Other Crime Films
00:51:12
Zach Sheets
yeah.
00:51:12
Chris Prime
no he I think he does it because he hates like working in that diner.
00:51:13
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:51:16
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:51:17
Chris Prime
And it's like he's not going to go anywhere. He's spinning out of his place.
00:51:23
Zach Sheets
this And this is this could be like a quick, like, make make a a ton of money quick, and then, you know, figure out what he's going to do afterwards. Like, he can quit the diner, that, like, grill job, and then he's got he'll have a bunch of money for this heist, and then he and his eating his girl can, like, do something, leave, or do something.
00:51:42
Chris Prime
Well, okay, so the diner was is a a little weird because was the diner guy just, and I know he was an asshole, but he he was taking the wages off the grill cook?
00:51:55
Zach Sheets
Well, Dennis Haysbert was on parole. And so this is like his job they got to like stay like stay out of prison or so like stay on take good with like his parole officer. But then the the manager's like, why no like if you like do anything, I'll tell your parole officer you're like drinking on a job or i get you fired. Then you'll be like back in jail.
00:52:11
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's like he threatens him to his face.
00:52:12
Zach Sheets
but Yeah, basically blackmailing it. be like, i can I can do whatever you want to you because like i' I'll tell your parole officer you're you're being a horrible worker.
00:52:24
Zach Sheets
but they then he like But then he like punches him when he leaves. He's making an assault charge, probably. if he had like Even if he survived the heist, he would have been like arrested for like that plus assault.
00:52:34
Chris Prime
Yeah. Again, not if LA has a specific crime where it's like, well... Did the police see you assault them? No. Okay. Well, it's a, whatever. Free to go.
00:52:47
Zach Sheets
But yeah it's it's yeah, he's just like another like, kind of like like De Niro afterwards, just like you you're almost out and then you like you let yourself get pulled back in and then it didn't work out.
00:52:57
Chris Prime
got to you.
00:52:58
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:53:00
Chris Prime
Maybe he missed the heat.
00:53:03
Zach Sheets
I mean, I think the heat caught up to him. shri like It totally caught up to him because he got shot like by like the police.
00:53:10
Chris Prime
Also, there's like only one epilogue for that where his like wife or girlfriend hears the news and then that's it. There's no return. There's no more closure. So it's like, okay, well, now life is like totally turned upside down because of crime.
00:53:26
Chris Prime
Like I said, it's a lot of filler. it
00:53:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:53:29
Chris Prime
I feel like you trim that out, you definitely get to Den of Thieves territory.
00:53:35
Zach Sheets
Yeah. it Yeah, like Den of Thieves is very hyper-focused on Pablo Schreiber and Gerard Butler. Just them. Then the side characters are kind like, they're there, but you're not following other members of Gerard Butler's crew or anything.
00:53:54
Zach Sheets
Or Pablo Schreiber's crew. It's just like, those two.
00:53:59
Zach Sheets
And then their their diner moment is like a fight in a sushi bar.
00:54:04
Zach Sheets
Where it's basically just like, do you even lift, bro? That's like that's like that's like their diner conversation.
00:54:15
Chris Prime
Well, doesn't it like the town have something like that between Jon Hamm?
00:54:20
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, anything that's kind of like, you know, is like, looking to heat as, like, inspiration, which is, like, pretty much every kind of, like, big crime epic drama heist movie.
00:54:32
Zach Sheets
And especially they're, like, big names, then, yeah, there's there's gonna be some sort of, like, conversation before something happens or, like, yeah, like a showdown. Yeah.
00:54:42
Chris Prime
I'm wondering, were there any movies prior to this where they did have a good crime drama?
00:54:52
Chris Prime
I've seen, i looked at a list of movies that probably inspired Michael Mann to do this. And a lot of them is the criminal is very cold calculated. And then it's just like trying to keep that balance and in that like illusion of controls.
00:55:10
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:55:11
Chris Prime
not so much following the cop character, because the cop character itself, like this, is a different movie. Like, basically you get a cop that won't let any crime go, and you get basically the French connection.
00:55:28
Chris Prime
That's like the other version of a cold calculated character who loves his job and will seek justice to, you know... for for his like honor as a cop.
00:55:44
Zach Sheets
I don't know. That era didn't really focus on like the criminals, though. that was They were all like, especially those 70s ones, like Bullet and Fetch. those It was all about the detective, and that was it. Mm-hmm.
00:55:51
Chris Prime
Right. That's why I'm like, you never got like the the mix. It's always one or the other, but Heat, I think, was both.
00:56:00
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah. Another thing I was surprised about, like, so after the shootout, was surprised that there's still, like, 50 minutes left of the movie left. I'm just like, oh, there's still, like, a bunch more movie left.
00:56:12
Chris Prime
Yeah, again, this is why I'm like, this is a four-act movie.
00:56:15
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:56:16
Chris Prime
the shootout The second shootout really is just the third act, which feels like a climax the whole movie. A lot of times, feels like, I mean, a lot of people think it is. And then the third act is just a Hitman movie.
00:56:28
Chris Prime
mean, the fourth act is a Hitman movie.
00:56:30
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it kind of shifts gears. then it's like It's all about, like, Robert De Niro, like, Neil's, like like, trying to, like, close out his revenge against Van Zandt and Wingro. And then... and I think also on the police side, too, like, they've they totally... After the shootout, they've, like, totally lost any... They have no idea where, like, Chris and Neil are.
00:56:53
Zach Sheets
so So it's a kind of like a race... Like, they've got figure out, like, how... how they're going to try to get out of Los Angeles before they like totally disappear.
Climactic Decisions and Potential Sequel
00:57:02
Zach Sheets
It's like, and like, and like she knows like i know he's still here, but i we got about eight hours. He's is be gone. Cause he didn't have a new out.
00:57:11
Chris Prime
Yeah. So. John Voight plays a info broker who is helping Niro and I guess other people associated with their crew, which their crew doesn't have like a cool name.
00:57:27
Zach Sheets
No, yeah.
00:57:27
Chris Prime
It's even like the heat crew or it's like the the hockey team, whatever. it It's just like. They're just guys. Yeah.
00:57:39
Zach Sheets
It's like but Neil McCauley and the bandits or something. It's got like a band name. Like,
00:57:46
Chris Prime
Yeah, but again, they didn't want to get too cheesy with it. They didn't want to get too themed. I just think it'd be hilarious if De Niro called themselves like just something so that not just like he gives a speech about the heat over and over again.
00:58:02
Zach Sheets
isn it
00:58:08
Zach Sheets
but and then we yeah and then we get there's like the whole like the like Amy Brenneman finds out that De Niro is like actually a criminal and there's like the whole like super awkward like race pitch like she like runs up the hill outside of his house and then he like tracks her down and then kind of like forces her forces it for her to go with him but then eventually she's like oh actually I'm gonna I will go with you of my own free will
00:58:30
Chris Prime
Yeah, let's go to Fiji and do the things because we have the time. and She's sort of like a manic pixie dream girl.
00:58:38
Zach Sheets
Kinda, yeah. She's like a a graphic design. She's from like Appalachia, but she wants to be a graphic designer.
00:58:48
Chris Prime
Do you even see that? Is that just something she sort of just spits out?
00:58:54
Zach Sheets
I mean, I'm trying to think, like, i well, I think we, because, is it her, I think it's her apartment brand where it's, like, they, most because, like, because obviously De Niro has, like, no furniture in his house, so, like, I think he's mostly going to her, like, like apartment or house, and then she got she does have, like, a lot of, like, like kind of, like, paintings and, like, graphic-y kind of stuff around her house.
00:59:13
Chris Prime
I mean, it's l LA. Everyone has like art.
00:59:15
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:17
Chris Prime
I guess.
00:59:17
Zach Sheets
She got she got lists like when they're talking, when they first are like talking, she kind lists off a bunch of like, oh yeah, I did like a, like an album, a couple albums. I did like some posters for some things.
00:59:29
Zach Sheets
She's like one like one of the rare people that didn't show up to like LA be like an actor. She wanted to be like a graphic designer.
00:59:34
Chris Prime
Yeah. That's true. I thought she was going fail actress. But she's just living the other light art style. That's why maybe she finds De Niro interesting and beautiful. Because he's very like uniformed.
00:59:52
Chris Prime
That's i liked about his character. was Even if he's wearing a suit, he looks like he's wearing an outfit. That's like his crime outfit. He's never not wearing formal clothes.
01:00:04
Zach Sheets
Yes.
01:00:05
Chris Prime
There's no scene where he's just wearing like a t-shirt anything, just sort of his weekend clothes.
01:00:08
Zach Sheets
Yeah. here That'd be very awkward if it were weird to see him in like a like t-shirt and jeans or something.
01:00:17
Chris Prime
I mean, one scene, Chris does the undercover kind of get up and he tries to look like a normal person.
01:00:24
Zach Sheets
what he like it like when he the Like the wave-off scene, when he like goes to try to meet with Adyjud.
01:00:28
Chris Prime
Hmm.
01:00:31
Zach Sheets
And like he's like he's cut his hair to like normal Vel'Kimmer length and dyed it.
01:00:37
Chris Prime
And then I don't know if it's implied that Chris is just like not healed right from his injury or it's like he's shocked from what's going on.
01:00:48
Zach Sheets
he got shot in the shoulder, right? It's like his main... it's like his main cause he yeah That's where he got shot.
01:00:54
Chris Prime
Mm hmm.
01:00:56
Zach Sheets
but yeah that But yeah, because he goes he goes to... They're you're using... The police like arrest Ashley Judd and basically are like, help us arrest Chris. we like You're going to go down for like accessory.
01:01:08
Zach Sheets
And then he shows up and then she does a little wave-off move of like don't don't come. And then he like he has to do like his like like leave all your attachments behind decision and he like leaves.
01:01:22
Zach Sheets
And then he's got he's got like a full like solid fake license, and the cop's just like, oh yeah, it's definitely It's this other... is this they This is his name.
01:01:32
Zach Sheets
They're like, alright, let him go. like this this The one guy who stopped outside of the safe house, looked up, and then drove away is's not the guy.
01:01:41
Chris Prime
Yeah. The cops there are like super incompetent at that point. It's just like, hey, I know we should probably tell the guy. Nah.
01:01:49
Zach Sheets
I think his only cover for that was that he kind of like Chris tried to play it off as like he like was like pulling over, like ask a bunch of guys playing basketball for like a directions, like a, like a hotel or like someplace to eat. He's like, Hey, you guys know any place to eat around here? And then like, then drives off.
01:02:06
Chris Prime
I'm just thinking like that's just an L.A. prank.
01:02:09
Zach Sheets
yeah
01:02:10
Chris Prime
early form of pranking and it's like nah those are just like this is a scam if anything Chris should have just went up and just acted crazy and it's like get out of here like crazy person
01:02:22
Chris Prime
but do you want to get into like how Ashley Judd fell into the wave off because she like starts dating Hanka's area
01:02:32
Zach Sheets
Yeah, she's like, she's seen Hank Azaren aside and then like, possibly I guess possibly believes that he's going like take her and her son and like, you know, away from Chris and like give it like a a normal life for like a, some sort of like better life than like degenerate gambler criminal Chris.
01:02:52
Zach Sheets
but But then the LAPD tracks him down to like Las Vegas because they, they, they, they was it there?
01:02:52
Chris Prime
yeah
01:02:58
Zach Sheets
I think they're tapping everyone's phones. So they hear Ashley, Joan and Hank's area have like a, like a phone calls. So they track him down to like like Las Vegas. And then you get the iconic Al Pacino like, she's got a great ass!
01:03:12
Chris Prime
Which out of nowhere in this this like serious drama movie
01:03:20
Chris Prime
it's so I forget that like he's describing Ashley Judd.
01:03:25
Zach Sheets
And you got your head all the way up it!
01:03:30
Chris Prime
I mean, did he even like see her from behind?
01:03:33
Zach Sheets
even Does he even know what she looks like? I guess so, because I didn't do surveillance, but...
01:03:39
Chris Prime
But that scene happens so early in the movie. And then it doesn't pay off until the third act where The consequences of Chris being a criminal like he he gets he loses the chance to ever go back I guess for now.
01:03:59
Zach Sheets
Until, I guess, the sequel. when I think... i think Leonardo DiCaprio might be playing him in the sequel.
01:04:07
Zach Sheets
Because they they said they they they they got some... like i there was starting There's a little bit of casting happening for Heat 2. So...
01:04:13
Chris Prime
yeah I don't know who
01:04:17
Chris Prime
Who would be like a good young version and old version or they're just gonna like de-age someone?
01:04:24
Zach Sheets
well court i mean According to IMDb right now, it's DiCaprio, Austin Butler, Christian Bale, Bradley Cooper, and Adam Driver are the casts.
01:04:31
Chris Prime
Whoa.
01:04:32
Chris Prime
And then do they all to do their best Val Kilmer impression?
01:04:37
Zach Sheets
and I guess DiCaprio knows. He's credited Chris Chihirlis right now. so
01:04:44
Zach Sheets
don't know if this is official. Someone just guessed that.
01:04:50
Zach Sheets
think the only thing I saw from like Deadline or something was Valkyrie was cast in a major role. But dan is like he's playing the the role that Valkyrie played.
01:05:00
Chris Prime
Right, or it's just like it's a it's pulling kind of the remake re-imaging vibe where Heat 2 is actually just like a it's Heat 1 again.
01:05:11
Chris Prime
you know, they replay the whole movie. The Diner scene, but instead of like Pachito, it's like, it's Leonardo DiCaprio.
01:05:21
Zach Sheets
It's Christian Bale and DiCaprio.
01:05:26
Chris Prime
Just the same dialogue too.
01:05:26
Zach Sheets
yeah
01:05:30
Zach Sheets
i think the weirdest like subplot for like the last act is Natalie Portman tries to kill herself. that comes out of like nowhere, too.
01:05:38
Zach Sheets
cause like she's been she's been She's disappeared for so long in the movie, you forget she's even in the movie.
01:05:39
Chris Prime
Oh yeah.
01:05:42
Zach Sheets
And then
01:05:43
Chris Prime
Yeah, you mentioned, i was like oh yeah, no, no, that happened. I think about it just because it sort of comes out of left field.
01:05:50
Zach Sheets
Because I think the last time you saw her was like at least an hour ago in the movie when Pacino, she's just like waiting on the side of the street. And then Pacino picks her up like, all right, honey, I'll take you home. But then, yeah, she like goes to Pacino's hotel room. Because this is this is after he's like left, like he's finding out his wife's cheating on him with Xander Berkeley. He's just like, I take my TV. And then he's like staying at the hotel where they're doing surveillance on Wayne Grove.
01:06:15
Zach Sheets
And then somehow Nelly Porton figured out where he was and then went to his hotel room and like then slid her wrists in his bathtub.
01:06:25
Chris Prime
cry for a help I don't know if that was like a cry for attention or like purposeful like I hate you stepdad.
01:06:31
Zach Sheets
How'd she get like a, like a room key?
01:06:33
Chris Prime
Key?
01:06:33
Zach Sheets
She just went up to like the main desk and was like, hey, my my dad my dad is a cop and he's doing surveillance at this hotel.
01:06:33
Chris Prime
No idea.
01:06:41
Zach Sheets
Can I get my, no, can you get the key up?
01:06:42
Chris Prime
Secret surveillance?
01:06:42
Chris Prime
Can you let me in there?
01:06:45
Zach Sheets
It's like, sure, honey.
01:06:47
Zach Sheets
And then he and he his wife, kind of they kind of, they reconcile, but then he's like, now'sre we're still not getting back we're not getting back together. like We're still done, but like we're we're in a better spot now.
01:06:47
Chris Prime
What?
01:06:57
Chris Prime
I think they just understood each other.
01:06:59
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:07:00
Chris Prime
Like, he can't not go of his job, and she sort of is a terrible mom. At least that's what I understood. Okay, because let's let's break down her character.
01:07:11
Chris Prime
shes She's introduced as sort of like an L.A. artsy kind of snob person. because She lives in a very fancy penthouse that's like, I guess, devoid of modern technology and just looks fancy from the outside, but like
01:07:17
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:07:26
Chris Prime
She doesn't really care to do dishes or anything.
01:07:30
Zach Sheets
and I'm not sure what, like, I don't know what, like, if she has a job or she just like. Mm hmm.
01:07:36
Chris Prime
Just pop Prozac and drink. She's frustrated, but she doesn't tell her husband. She's just rather like passive aggressively be like, oh, I'm not home.
01:07:46
Chris Prime
So you got to raise our stepdaughter.
01:07:47
Zach Sheets
you I live in the wreckage of your life.
01:07:51
Chris Prime
Yeah, like, it's such an artsy bullshit thing where she she definitely, like, likes the, they like, woe is me victimhood.
01:08:00
Zach Sheets
but you you yeah It's like you live among the dead and then you leave us in the wreckage.
01:08:04
Chris Prime
Holy crap, you know, no one talks like that. And it's like, it's not like he's the criminal, he's the cop.
01:08:11
Zach Sheets
and yeah and he's And he's trying to be like, do you want me to tell you that I had to like go and like look at it like a kid who got his head bashed in by a baseball bat and like describe it to you? is that what you want me to do?
01:08:24
Chris Prime
Is that your thing? And she almost has a very European kind of lifestyle, but she's from l LA. Like she's just like a regular LA person.
01:08:35
Chris Prime
Yeah, but I clocked that as soon as like she's introduced when that like laying in bed, popping pills and just sort of finding a reason to complain. And then when she comes home, she's just like, eh, whatever.
01:08:48
Zach Sheets
I made dinner but it's cold now it's like I was doing surveillance I was in a club talking to Tone Loke
01:08:55
Chris Prime
Maybe she's like, I want to go with you and do, like, cop shit.
01:08:59
Zach Sheets
they probably coke in that club I could do some coke
01:09:03
Chris Prime
Yeah, her character is, like, kind of the worst. It's so distracting for me to watch that.
01:09:08
Chris Prime
It's sort of like the prototype Skylar from Breaking Bad.
01:09:12
Zach Sheets
A little bit, yeah.
01:09:14
Chris Prime
It's like, I understand what she's doing, but I don't agree with it.
01:09:20
Chris Prime
It's like, whenever characters like that, they always scream at the protagonist.
01:09:20
Zach Sheets
so so
01:09:25
Chris Prime
It's like, you made me cheat.
01:09:29
Zach Sheets
especially Especially when you see how like how effective Pacino is as a cop. like he's like you need You need him out there doing this.
01:09:37
Chris Prime
Yeah. You need someone who is constantly monitoring how violent the city is and trying to stop it. It's unfortunate that, like, you know, you couldn't live a...
01:09:49
Chris Prime
dream LA lifestyle. I think that's the problem. She wanted the the love and the money and whatever. Machino just doesn't have any of that. His true love is the city.
01:10:01
Chris Prime
I'm
01:10:01
Zach Sheets
Yeah. His true love is to hunt.
01:10:04
Chris Prime
surprised this movie isn't called like l LA Heat or something like that.
01:10:08
Zach Sheets
i think I think that was one of the LA Takedown had like a couple other... like Oh, it was LA Crime Wave was the other alternate title for it.
01:10:16
Chris Prime
Gotcha.
01:10:16
Zach Sheets
Or Made in LA was the third title, which is a stupid title.
01:10:20
Chris Prime
It's like generic. Mm-hmm.
01:10:22
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
01:10:23
Zach Sheets
but yeah we get but But yeah, so we get like... Like Denier tracks down Van Zandt and kills him. And then he... He finds out... he finds out where Wingro is because they helped Pacino and his team managed to arrest Henry Rollins, who's like Van Zandt's like henchman.
01:10:43
Zach Sheets
And then they spread they spread the rumor that Wingro is in a hotel. And so they so they like they like let every like bookie and like person on the street know that Wingro is in this hotel. and so that theyve gradually they gets to John Voight. John Voight's like, hey, brother, like i don't like you're leaving, but Wingro is in this hotel everyone like if you want to go get him.
01:11:04
Chris Prime
Yeah, John Voight doesn't do that thing where he'll tattle and then you realize that maybe John Voight's like injured and dying. It's like the last thing. It's just... Nah, he's just an info broker.
01:11:15
Zach Sheets
Yeah, he's just like, hey, yeah it's like your plane's all set to go. Just get to the airport. Oh, by the way, also, Wayne grows. I know where he is, but I'm sure you don't want to know that. it's just like And then Jero's like, no, i don't i don't want to know.
01:11:26
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I'm i'm good. then he's like, no, I'm not good.
01:11:31
Chris Prime
Yeah.
01:11:31
Zach Sheets
i got to get him.
01:11:31
Chris Prime
I do like that tension. It's like, you know, mentioning it to him, he's not going to let it go.
01:11:39
Zach Sheets
Which, that like you could like, you could almost read that as, like, a of, like, so subtle nefarious thing on Jon Voight's part of this, like, i much i got to mention this guy, and then he'll, like, you'll get taken out, maybe.
01:11:51
Chris Prime
well if you think about it, it's like a perfect, like I said, just it's a good tactic just to make sure you close the loop.
01:11:58
Zach Sheets
does, does Jon Voight have all their money? Like, is he holding, like, the like the heist money?
01:12:03
Chris Prime
He's the broker.
01:12:04
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:05
Chris Prime
So, he yeah, he has money. But I think he's a good broker. That's why he trusts Robert De Niro. And Robert De Niro's like a professional. So it'd be weird. Because if he finds out that was the plan that Jon Voight had all along, then like he then Robert De Niro would be coming after him.
01:12:24
Zach Sheets
Yeah. i' I'm just wondering if, like, if, like, Jon Voight had, like, all if he had, like, all of the money, it's like, holding at his, like, bar, is like his his house, and then it kind of was like, oh, I could, like, like, Chris is gone, i could get I could get rid of Neil, and then I could have all this money.
01:12:41
Chris Prime
See, that would have been a good sequel, or even a if you were to turn this into a TV show, that would have been the next season.
01:12:49
Zach Sheets
and And I love the kind of like hit like it's almost it's like Hitman the game where like youre like goes into the hotel and like gets a costume and then like like walks straight into like where like in front of like the surveillance team and just like breaks into the like wiker with room and shoots him.
01:13:04
Zach Sheets
But he dresses like a hotel security guy.
01:13:09
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's a totally different heart different tone to the movie now, where it's follow this assassin who's just a really good, like, tactician.
01:13:19
Zach Sheets
yeah like yeah yeah He spots where all the like the hotel security is. like he kind of I think he like kind of like realizes like some of them are cops, possibly. like he knows how to get to like the all the service areas.
01:13:32
Zach Sheets
but But then it's like the most unsettled just like kicks the door down and like shoots Wankrow. So it's like all all this like like very like precise, careful like sneaking up to the room and just bursts in.
01:13:45
Zach Sheets
And also, I find it pretty funny, too, like, he, like, tells Eadie like, wait in the car, and then, like, every scene every time you cut back to her, like, it's, like, just getting more and more chaotic outside of, like, fire trucks coming up, and, like, people running out of the hotel, and she's just, like, seeing the car still.
01:13:58
Zach Sheets
It's like...
01:13:58
Chris Prime
And she's really loyal to be like, okay, now he's coming back.
01:14:02
Zach Sheets
Yeah,
Character Allegiances and Development
01:14:02
Zach Sheets
but it's like, hopefully it's here soon. Let's get crazy out here. Probably has nothing to do with him.
01:14:10
Chris Prime
and Don't they have like a flight to catch?
01:14:12
Zach Sheets
Yeah. I think it's the i think it's they say mission like he's it's like the airport hotel. i think it's the hotel like right next to the airport. Because like because Neil jumps that bush and then he's like he's on like tarmac, basically.
01:14:19
Chris Prime
Oh.
01:14:23
Chris Prime
Yeah, like I forgot that because it's like, wow, did you run to the airport?
01:14:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I think i think they met they mentioned it's like the airport Hilton or the airport hotel or something. So it's like it's like right right next to like the airport.
01:14:35
Chris Prime
See, that's another thing. See, that's a John Voight thing. That's like, they see the your theory comes right. It comes a little clearer where it's like, oh, why book do the flight next to the hotel? And like, you know, just put all the pieces in place.
01:14:52
Zach Sheets
And then there's there's the the the you know the final shootout between Niro and Pacino, which is a great... like kind of like Compared to like the the big like street... like One was just all chaos and craziness. like This is like a very like cat and mouse, slow, kind like methodical shootout.
01:15:10
Zach Sheets
And then you get like the like the great like split second where Pacino sees the shadow. Because it's like the like the when the plane's coming in, the lights come up.
01:15:19
Zach Sheets
So he sees the shadow and lights come up. And then he gets to drop on De Niro. But then you get then then it's like is like the whole, like i still I respect you still, so I'm going to hold your hand while you die.
01:15:25
Chris Prime
I forgot
01:15:30
Zach Sheets
causere Because we're men of honor.
01:15:34
Zach Sheets
Even though if though you're a criminal.
01:15:40
Zach Sheets
And then just like the song like the song choice at the end too, like the like the, was it God Moving Over the Face of the Water by like, was it Moby, I think?
01:15:49
Chris Prime
forgot who
01:15:51
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it's it's's it's God Moving Over the Face of the Water is like a Moby song that plays, is like the like the closing credit song.
01:15:59
Chris Prime
I mean, it's definitely one of those shocking ends, and you sort of just then like accept it. you know cause didn't you You root for De Niro, and then you sort of root for... I mean, I root for De Niro more than Pacino in this in the movie.
01:16:16
Chris Prime
So when he's killed, they're like like you know it sucks, but you totally understood his like story.
01:16:17
Zach Sheets
Well, I think... Yeah,
01:16:22
Zach Sheets
yeah i feel I feel like Michael Mann definitely leans more toward like the criminal side. like he like He fleshes those characters out more than like the cops, because on the cop side, like you don't follow any of the other... like You don't follow Pacino's crew at all. You don't see like you know Ted Levine's home life at all or anything.
01:16:40
Chris Prime
Nah, I know.
01:16:40
Zach Sheets
but
01:16:42
Chris Prime
There's no balance. It's a very like heavily focused criminal life.
01:16:46
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
01:16:48
Chris Prime
I mean, that that happens later on in a lot of those other movies. They want to really kind of focus on the crime drama, but you can't have that when you make decent detectives because they're not they're not supposed to be gray characters. Because I'm thinking like Den of Thieves, the the Gerard Butler role. Like, he is just Pacino again.
01:17:13
Zach Sheets
but like But if Pacino was like a corrupt cop, because Trevor Butler was like an absolute scumbag.
01:17:21
Zach Sheets
like Big Nick is just like, yeah, like I'm i'm like basically just as bad as like the like the the criminals, because I have a badge.
01:17:32
Zach Sheets
and think, and Den Thieves is kind of, like, Den of Thieves is definitely more of, like, a heist movie, because you see a lot more of like, the planning of the heist.
01:17:40
Chris Prime
Yeah, I think only like two heists in Den of Thieves. No, no. Well, they were trying multi-do like a whole bunch.
01:17:49
Zach Sheets
Well, I mean, the the the first one, the the first Den Thieves, it's all building up, like, the that Federal Reserve heist, and you see, like, all you see a lot more of the planning of that.
01:17:54
Chris Prime
Yeah.
01:17:57
Zach Sheets
And then, yeah, like I said, he is more concerned about like the characters and like their like their lives and like what what this like like what the effects of like their lives, like their jobs, or their obsessions cause to all of them.
01:18:12
Zach Sheets
And then there's like there's like one scene where I'm like, oh, here's the blueprints. All right.
01:18:17
Chris Prime
Yeah, it goes smoothly in
01:18:19
Zach Sheets
That's why, yeah, I wouldn't call hes like he like a heist movie. Because when I think of a heist movie, it's all about like seeing like seeing the like build up to the heist, and then the heist gets pulled off.
01:18:33
Chris Prime
careful, then you get to something like Now You See Me level heister movie.
01:18:39
Zach Sheets
i mean those I mean, those are still also like heist movies. There's a lot of the planning of like whatever the big heist is.
01:18:45
Chris Prime
Yeah, but then it's like any MacGuffin is just magic. That's how we do it.
01:18:47
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:49
Chris Prime
I mean, he sort of just doesn't go into the detail of what the heist is because it just sort it unfolds as we watch it. They don't mention anything where it's like, alright, you gotta get the bags, you gotta get get the code, you get you hold up this guy, he's the manager.
01:19:05
Zach Sheets
Yeah, think the only step they take before the bank is Tom Sizemore and Vel'Killmore break in and they drill under and get to the computer and put that chip in that turns off the surveillance or turns off whatever. Newton gives them a thing of like, here's a board. You put this board in and 20 minutes before you get into the bank it's going to shut everything down.
01:19:29
Zach Sheets
So they put that in place and then but that's like the only thing they do is like to set up the heist.
01:19:32
Chris Prime
Yep, yep. That's the only, like, MacGuffin, so that way you can't be like, how did they just pull off this heist and no one complained?
01:19:40
Zach Sheets
but yeah no No alarms. because Because the only reason the cops show up is that Wayne Grow goes to Van Zandt. They tortured Danny Trejo and Danny Trejo told them about the heist. Then they they leave an anonymous tip to like the cops.
01:19:57
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's a chain of events that does take a little bit for them to reverse it to understand what happened.
01:20:04
Zach Sheets
Because yeah cause there's a part like the whole Wangro thing, is along with being a circular, like he shows up is like, I want revenge on them. but like So i'll work I'll work with you, Van Zant, to like take them down.
01:20:15
Zach Sheets
Because they want to take me down.
01:20:18
Chris Prime
So William Fichtner is, i know like he's Van Zandt, but like did, is he the owner and like of the whole company or is he just the in charge?
01:20:31
Zach Sheets
I mean, he he's he's definitely he's some sort of like finance guy. i don't know what his like, if he owns like the whole company or he's just like a a big, like some sort of like executive there, but he's doing like moneyering money laundering and then like he owned those bonds.
01:20:40
Chris Prime
Hmm.
01:20:45
Zach Sheets
So that's the whole scheme like selling them back to bonds. But then he's also some sort of like, he's a little bit of a, kind of like a mobster criminal because he's got like Henry Rollins and like a bunch of like henchmen like do his bidding.
01:20:59
Chris Prime
Yeah, there's that other part in the movie where we skipped where De Niro's trying to do like an exchange, but instead it was like a hit.
01:21:09
Zach Sheets
Yeah, they managed take they managed to take out like like both the the guys that Vance hired to kill them.
01:21:14
Chris Prime
One seemed like legit hitman, the other guy just seemed like a wheeled man.
01:21:14
Zach Sheets
That one...
01:21:18
Zach Sheets
Yeah. they what That one guy gets like so crushed against the cars, and then he's shot like a couple times, and then he gets hit by a car. So that guy gets it's like absolutely demolished.
01:21:27
Chris Prime
yeah
01:21:31
Chris Prime
It was every possible like kill method in that area.
01:21:34
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
01:21:35
Zach Sheets
But yeah, I think that anything anything else, Chris, we might forget to mention you want to bring up about heat?
01:21:41
Chris Prime
Oh, okay. So... Yeah, just the the influence after Heat. In this movie, like... Definitely a lot of people took inspiration from certain scenes or acting methods and incorporated he was a movie I watched when I was growing up, like once or twice, not really understanding the impact and how well it was.
01:22:05
Chris Prime
But
Influence on Media and Anticipation for Sequel
01:22:06
Chris Prime
later on, re-watching it and then seeing the influence is like more obvious, such as like the Dark Knight Bank High scene.
01:22:15
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah. yeah the I mean, The Dark Knight is like just like... it's it's It's heat with superheroes.
01:22:19
Chris Prime
Mm-hmm. Everyone's got a little bit. You follow each kind of crew. Drive is sort of like Heat, where you see, like, at least one version of, like, you see, like, you follow the one hero, then you follow the protect antagonist.
01:22:23
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
01:22:36
Chris Prime
And it's all about, like, more about just the the the crime life.
01:22:42
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
01:22:44
Chris Prime
And then even... What's up?
01:22:46
Zach Sheets
Also, like, drive also, like, stylistically. They just, like, you know, like, L.A. night driving around. Like, it's, like, very Michael Mann.
01:22:53
Chris Prime
Oh yeah, it's just... It's another movie to reflect kind of the criminal element in the city. So like underneath the like blitz and glamour, there's still like scummy
01:23:05
Chris Prime
And that's what's always about like the L.A. allure. Which is hilarious because it's like... That's not a fantasy place. L.A.' 's a real place. But But I guess like L.A.
01:23:15
Chris Prime
crime...
01:23:16
Zach Sheets
who
01:23:17
Chris Prime
but it's just different from new York crime. Like, new York crime doesn't get, like, cool nightlife, so like, glitzy and all this and romanticized as much.
01:23:28
Zach Sheets
No, like, especially like, there's you know, there's like New York crime where just like grimy and dirty, disgusting.
01:23:36
Chris Prime
I mean, nowadays, it's just, like, it's whatever.
01:23:37
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I got...
01:23:40
Zach Sheets
yeah i can't think i think I can't think of like a New York crime movie that has like the same kind of like style or like shows New York the same way that Michael Mann shows off LA. Yeah.
01:23:51
Chris Prime
I mean, if they try to it's like it's like a comedy. I mean, Max Payne, sort of, but that's not even a movie. That's a game.
01:24:02
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I feel like New york' new York's Haiti was definitely like the seventy s where was like, yeah let's just we's show how dangerous and grimy this city is.
01:24:09
Chris Prime
Yeah. But in L.A., they don't really... It's like a mix of the grime, but then it's also the decadence.
01:24:17
Chris Prime
i And then, obviously, if you love kind of crime things, but a little bit of heisting, definitely Payday. Payday, the series, was really like just directly influenced by the scenes of the heisting.
01:24:36
Zach Sheets
g GTA too, like, especially like GTA 4 has like, basically like, there's basically a mission where you play Heat.
01:24:42
Chris Prime
Yeah.
01:24:44
Chris Prime
You do the the long distance crime. You have to travel through the city. You get that. i mean like All these kind of crime influences. but Again, it's we've been saying it's not quite a heist movie. It's a crime drama. so you know There's probably other inspirational scenes that have happened, but this is just the top ones I remember seeing.
01:25:09
Chris Prime
but Yeah, we covered the free prequel film or the original spiritual form in LA Takedown. And yeah, I was going to mention that. I wrote a few notes, but we just went through them earlier.
01:25:27
Zach Sheets
And like we said, like you you you can watch you can watch the whole thing. You can watch all the other take down if you want on the on our site. It's up there right now. And then we can look forward to Heat 2 whenever that comes out.
01:25:39
Zach Sheets
I mean you you mean, I guess you can read the book right now because it was if it came out as a book.
01:25:39
Chris Prime
What
01:25:42
Zach Sheets
So the book's out. It's been out for like a couple of years, I think, at this point. And then they're casting the movie, they're doing a pre-production of movie now. So hopefully we'll see that next couple of years.
01:25:55
Zach Sheets
and not sure if I'm not sure if we can go up to like the the first one, 30 plus years later. But i mean the there's something like a pretty like solid cast already.
01:26:01
Chris Prime
Yeah. name
01:26:06
Zach Sheets
hopefully we can at least be like a solid sequel sequel slash prequel because it's both it's the book is both so that's gonna be like a height 2 is there hasn't there hasn't been a great track record of like calling back to like something doing a sequel something like yeah know like decades later hasn't worked out that great
01:26:25
Chris Prime
i can't name too many
01:26:28
Chris Prime
A lot times that happens is people are like, we're better off not having a s sequel.
01:26:32
Zach Sheets
or or it's like we they needed money
01:26:35
Chris Prime
Or it's a direct-to-DVD, like low budget.
01:26:40
Zach Sheets
But yeah, the original Heat, still still incredible.
Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode
01:26:43
Zach Sheets
there's There's a really great 4K version out now. I think that came out a couple years ago, but if you can check that out. Or I think it's on Paramount Plus right now is where it's streaming.
01:26:54
Zach Sheets
But yeah, definitely, if you haven't seen it in while, definitely rewatch it, especially to celebrate its 30th anniversary.
01:27:02
Zach Sheets
And yeah, so I think they'll do it for this week. Come back next week. We're diving into our best and worst movies of 2025. We're going to wrap up the year before we get into 2026. And, you know, there's been some great movies. there there's There's been some terrible movies this year. So we'll kind of dig into some of our favorites and least favorites.
01:27:21
Chris Prime
Yeah, can't wait talk about some of the like decent movies we've seen, but we haven't seen a lot of stinkers yet, so let's spend some time.
01:27:29
Zach Sheets
there There was a lot of there' was a lot of like very... like That was okay. a feast There was a lot of like...
01:27:33
Chris Prime
Yeah.
01:27:34
Zach Sheets
That was atrocious or horrible. like
01:27:37
Chris Prime
there There wasn't any Morpheus movies here.
01:27:40
Zach Sheets
No. I mean, there was there was a there was a pretty bad Jared Leto movie. But...
01:27:45
Chris Prime
Which is unfortunate.
01:27:46
Zach Sheets
With Tron Aries. Which we'll you know we'll get into next week. And how do say we got all our users up there. We got news, reviews, trailers, all kinds of stuff. And then... yeah I take down what we said.
01:27:56
Zach Sheets
And our our our like top 10, we're supposed to be probably be up next week too, at like along with the podcast. So head over and never check all that stuff out. And yeah, for this, I'm Zach, and we will see you next week.