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Respectful Curiosity: Navigating Questions About Gender at Work
18 Plays2 months ago
Curiosity is natural, especially when we want to understand the experiences of those around us. But what happens when that curiosity crosses the line into intrusive or uncomfortable questions?
In this episode, Kai and El explore the delicate balance between asking questions about gender identity out of genuine interest, and respecting personal boundaries - especially in the workplace. Trans and non-binary people often face questions that can feel invasive or inappropriate, and while it’s important to educate ourselves, creating a space where everyone’s privacy is respected is just as crucial.
Join Kai and El as they explore how to strike the right balance between curiosity and respect. They share practical tips for creating a workplace culture where sensitive topics are approached thoughtfully, and everyone feels comfortable setting boundaries. Plus, they discuss common mistakes people make and how to better navigate conversations without crossing lines.
Explore our resources to satisfy your curiosity and learn more! https://www.transfocus.ca/resources
Want to get in touch? Contact us at podcast@transfocus.ca
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Gender in Focus' with Clyde Scott
00:00:02
Speaker
This is Gender in Focus. I'm El and each week I sit down with the president of Trans Focus Consulting and all-round gender diversity genius, Kai Scott. I get to ask all the questions you've ever wanted to ask about how to make the workplace and the world a better place for trans and non-binary people.
00:00:20
Speaker
Let's get into it.
Respectful vs. Invasive Questions on Gender Diversity
00:00:23
Speaker
In today's episode, we're talking about how to distinguish respectful from invasive curiosity. Sure, we want to know more about gender diversity, but not all questions of trans and non-binary people are created equal.
00:00:37
Speaker
Let's unpack this in more detail in today's episode.
Considering Expectations in Gender-Related Inquiries
00:00:41
Speaker
So I imagine that you've been on the receiving end of some interesting questions, Kai. Yes. um And I wanted to start with asking that where is the line between being curious and wanting to learn more about about you and your experience and about ah trans experience in general and being nosy and just crying straight in?
00:01:04
Speaker
Absolutely. So true about like being nosy. ah But I and appreciate why people want to know more, because unfortunately, in our society, we haven't learned about talked about just known about trans and non binary folks, it's only become visible to the general population in very recent years. So ah people feel a pressure and and an anxiety to want to understand. So I want to acknowledge that's coming from a good place.
00:01:35
Speaker
But unfortunately, can blind people to what they're doing. um and can overemphasize getting information from one person in front of them. Usually because we only meet maybe one, two, three, or a few trans and non-binary folks in our lives. And so that kind of overemphasizes and puts this laser focus on this one person.
00:01:58
Speaker
um and they're just trying to go about their lives, right? And so really the fine line between you know asking genuine questions, respectful questions, and invasive questions is what you expect from that person.
00:02:13
Speaker
So if you feel owed an explanation or information from an individual, then that tells you that you're tipping towards the more invasive side of questions.
00:02:25
Speaker
Another factor is how personal or private this information is. ab Typically the test for that is would you ask a person who is not trans or who is cisgender the same question. That'll often give you some information.
00:02:40
Speaker
um And so These kind of multiple factors can help you understand, am I on one side or the other of this spectrum? And I appreciate that people want to be on the genuine, ah respectful question side.
00:02:55
Speaker
And really it's about seeing um and asking even, hey, is it okay if I ask you about X, Y, and Z before launching into the question?
00:03:05
Speaker
That gives people a time and a moment to be like, actually, today, I don't want to talk about that. Or i' sure, yeah, i'm I'm open to talking about it. So it's being responsive and and kind of attuned to the trans and non-binary person and where they're at with wanting to answer questions.
00:03:23
Speaker
How do you balance that if you're really curious about something and you want to be respectful, but you also want, but you really want to know the answer to something? How do you balance that?
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it's good that people want to know information and want to know more about trans and non-binary folks. Now, I'll say that you don't need to have the focus only on the trans and non-binary person in front of you.
00:03:49
Speaker
There's actually ah so many other great resources and places where people can get that information. So maybe the trans person isn't up for answering that question, or you've assessed and determined that the question you're wanting to ask is actually a little too personal.
00:04:05
Speaker
um If you think about in the workplace, we probably don't want to be asking about people's surgeries or medical procedures. um We would extend that same courtesy to even cisgender person. We wouldn't ask about surgeries that they're undertaking.
00:04:19
Speaker
And so where do you get that information? Well, there's actually plenty of folks on, say, YouTube or podcasts or you know even articles that you ah people can access to get that information.
00:04:32
Speaker
On YouTube, there's tons of trans and non-binary folks who are have chosen to share their stories. And some of them also, the kind of surgeries and procedures that they're deciding to undertake, they bring people along on that journey. So um you don't just have to rely on the one person that you know, or maybe more, but you can go to other sources.
00:04:56
Speaker
Other places are 2S, LGBT, ah lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender communities and organizations, say for example, EGAL Canada, have great resources that you can download and read.
00:05:10
Speaker
Certainly, Transfocus has our own set as well to help people be allies and to help have better understanding on the issues. so Again, you can ask questions, but it's just being mindful um and a ah aligning up with the trans or non-binary person's desire to share or not.
00:05:29
Speaker
And if not, then you have other places you can go.
Examples of Inappropriate Questions to Avoid
00:05:33
Speaker
What would count as an inappropriate question? So ah I'll give you an example from my own ah story, and this is very much aligned with other trans and non-binary folks. ah very Especially in early early stages of coming out ah to folks, ah people are very curious about gender-affirming care, in particular surgeries. So I had a very common question of
00:06:00
Speaker
you know, have you had the surgery? And I emphasize the, because unfortunately there's not just one procedure, or maybe fortunately that there's many different types of options available to folks, ah and that everyone makes the choices that are right for them, and not everybody accesses that type of care either. So we wanna be very careful about kind of presuming that people will access that care or that they ought to,
00:06:30
Speaker
um Some people misunderstand ah that trans people, they think they ought to transition medically, ah but that's not always the case. And so one question can have so many things kind of baked into it, um misunderstandings, fairly invasive because it's a very personal matter.
00:06:47
Speaker
Everybody makes choices um and have to weigh many different factors. And even they may be excited to ah have surgery. There might still be a lot. that's kind of baked into it that makes it really difficult.
00:07:00
Speaker
um For example, in Canada, we have long wait times. So anywhere from two years to five years to access care, that can really weigh on somebody as they're waiting for that really important um affirming a care.
00:07:15
Speaker
So it's just not waiting into that very personal, very private space for for folks, especially within the workplace. Another example if people who um use they them pronouns is, you know, why do you use they them pronouns?
00:07:30
Speaker
When did you know that you're a non-binary? um Just all like really kind of pummeling them with rapid fire questions and ah that can really put somebody um out of sorts and be kind of ah kind of back away from that interaction where they're almost having to kind of justify their existence rather than just being able to be without it having being such a big deal.
00:07:55
Speaker
Another invasive question is, say, ah expectations around how somebody should appear for their gender or how they should look. ah So if somebody has said that they're a man and then dresses, say, in a more feminine way, people may say, why do you dress in that way? That does doesn't make any sense. you You said you were a man.
00:08:17
Speaker
And so people can have these kind of invasive questions and almost um kind of interrogating their gender based on their presentation. realizing or not recognizing that gender identity is separate from how someone expresses themselves or their gender expression.
00:08:37
Speaker
And is that, would you say that that's true across all settings of what you've said is an inappropriate question? Is that true everywhere? o Like in terms of gender identity different from gender expression or all the examples? Or does any invasive um question that you've that you've considered?
00:08:55
Speaker
Right. through Yeah, it's ah it's a good one, especially when we think about gender affirming care and people's access or choices around it. ah Certainly, jail generally good to steer clear of that question within a workplace context for understandable reasons that it's very personal and private, but maybe within a family context, it might be suitable to inquire in a caring sort of way and also from a logistical standpoint, like does this person need after surgery care ah that maybe a family member or a friend could provide? so
00:09:32
Speaker
It's the orientation with which you ask the question, um is it that you're trying to kind of extract something from someone or provide something to them, right? So if you have the orientation of I want to help you and I just inquiring if there is something that I should be aware of, that that's a really good intention and orientation of that question.
00:09:54
Speaker
And that can be very valuable within a personal setting, our personal relationship with that person. If you're at work and you happen to have a close relationship with a trans person at work, often what can happen is people will maybe not direct the question at the trans person, but they will then direct the question at a person close to them. How does...
00:10:15
Speaker
how how does Well, actually, I have two questions with that. Firstly, how should the person respond when being asked these invasive questions about somebody else, um if especially if that person isn't present?
00:10:27
Speaker
And then second of all, if you are that person asking that question, what's the best way to go about handling ah kind of the the questions that you have Yes, that's a really important consideration because sometimes people realize, oh, I shouldn't ask the trans person. They realize how awkward that is, but there's still this ah bubbling curiosity is too strong or or people kind of feel entitled to a response. And so they will go to somebody else, kind of a backdoor response. response to go to somebody that's close to the trans person and pummel them with a bunch of questions, um which can create a really awkward situation for that that employee who is close to the trans person.
00:11:14
Speaker
And um speaking about from their perspective, I would encourage them to to re redirect the person asking the question and be like, That's not my story to tell. That's inappropriate of me to respond. That's very personal information.
00:11:30
Speaker
ah You may not realize it and it's okay. It's not like you had bad intentions, ah but I won't be responding to those questions. You can be quite firm in a supportive and, you know,
00:11:42
Speaker
ah understanding way ah for people. Because sometimes people don't realize just how invasive their questions are until somebody just declines to respond. And that could be a really important learning moment that you offer to that person.
00:11:57
Speaker
It's not rude because they're unfortunately not thinking it through ah entirely and that it's not appropriate to kind of get information from somebody, um not directly from the trans person.
00:12:10
Speaker
And so that's one way of responding and handling that situation. Another thing, thinking about it from the perspective of the person who asked the question, is I always encourage folks just to pause before they ask a question.
00:12:25
Speaker
um Do I need to know this information? is this like necessary for the work at hand? ah Is there another place I can ask or get this information, right? um To kind of, I know it's very, curiosity can be very strong force, but just to be with that discomfort of not knowing right away, ah but that eventually you will know and and have that information.
00:12:49
Speaker
Really what's critical in the workplace is quite simple. It's just knowing somebody's first name and their pronouns. ah You can even just get by with somebody's first name. All the other details, if you get close to somebody, maybe you'll be privy to that information.
00:13:07
Speaker
But otherwise, it's actually not necessary. Sometimes people have this, um like, I need to know in order to respect somebody. type of configuration in their mind and equation, when actually it's much, much more simple than that, which is a good thing. We don't want it to be super complex.
00:13:23
Speaker
And hopefully that takes away some of that anxiety. um And that, you know, there are other avenues for getting that information um for from a curiosity standpoint. So hopefully that's helpful.
00:13:35
Speaker
But I definitely can relate to the question about um you know, close people who are close to trans folks getting those types of questions. um And that also, even though think people think they're not harming a trans person, can put that person in an awkward position.
00:13:51
Speaker
um And it's okay to push back on that. We've had a previous episode talking about dealing with mistakes. And I was really wanting to ask the question about, let's say you've asked an invasive question and you didn't mean to, you were just curious, you've asked a question.
00:14:08
Speaker
It's been made clear to you yeah it's an inappropriate question. How do you respond to that? Like, um what would be the best way to to clean up that mess a bit?
00:14:20
Speaker
Absolutely. And hey, that might happen, in which case, i mean, thank goodness that person mentioned something, in which case you can come from a place of, or one could come from a place of of of gratitude, just be like, thank you for for mentioning that. I totally understand um that either it's to the trans person themselves or ah somebody close to them who has put up a firm boundary and Just say, yeah, ah now that you mention it, i can see why you wouldn't want to respond to that question.
00:14:49
Speaker
And in in saying that, that actually helps establish trust with that. Some people want to kind of skip past that and be like, oh, I hope they didn't notice or I'm embarrassed. But really to be um kind of matter of fact about that, apologizing and under understanding can help them realize, okay, they get it and they're not being dismissive.
00:15:14
Speaker
Because some people, if people put up a firm boundary around questions, ah they'll push back and be like, what are you what are you hiding? what Why is this such a big deal to you? We should be able to talk about things openly, yada, yada, yada.
00:15:27
Speaker
And that can then put up more of a defense and more of ah a guarded approach to things versus if you're like, yeah, totally get it, totally ah understand. And um you know I take your lead in what you're comfortable responding to.
00:15:43
Speaker
And I can appreciate maybe you get a lot of these questions. So I want to be respectful of um yeah what you're wanting to share and not share, especially in the workplace. When it comes to curiosity, if you are in a workplace and you suspect that somebody might be trans, but they haven't told you, um where does that where does that come in um with regards to ah sort of respecting people's privacy?
00:16:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. People really struggle with that one because they want to be able to share with that person directly that they're supportive, right? um But then also realize, you know, that person hasn't said anything. So who am I to kind of step into that?
00:16:25
Speaker
So they almost kind of freeze in that moment or like, I don't know what to do. ah And so in that case, it's really important to respect somebody's privacy. ah That if somebody wants to share that they're trans, if they are indeed trans, because sometimes people guess but actually are off, um ah because we can't know who somebody is based on how they look.
00:16:48
Speaker
And so if they are indeed trans and they don't want to share that, we want to respect that in the workplace. So there are some people who never come out as trans. ah Perhaps they're still visibly trans um in that you know we can make you know can kind of piece it together, ah but ah we want to not have that be in the mix if they don't want to share that.
00:17:10
Speaker
um Now, of course, you do still want to be supportive. And in order to do that, you can do that in a more indirect way. So kind of signal more broadly that not directed at that person, but just to to a wider audience.
00:17:26
Speaker
depending on you know what the situation is at work, to share positive articles about you know trans issues and how to resolve those in a workplace. um Maybe you want to mention that there's Trans Day of Remembrance, which is usually in November, or Trans Day of Visibility, which is coming up in March.
00:17:44
Speaker
So there's ways that you can signal that you understand the issues, that you're wanting to work to support them, And so with that type of understanding, maybe that person might be more comfortable share ah details about themselves if it's relevant.
00:18:01
Speaker
So there there are ways to handle that situation without going beelining directly to them and being like, what's up? ah Tell me all about yourself, you know.
00:18:13
Speaker
I think you're trans, so let's, you know. No, it's just just being able to provide a safe and supportive environment and being kind of overt about that um in many different ways ah can help that. and when And if people want to share more,
00:18:32
Speaker
They can, ah knowing that it's a safe place with either you specifically or with with the broader team or the organization in general. So there's there's ways to to navigate that in a respectful and responsive way.
00:18:47
Speaker
Do you have any sort of closing comments or thoughts before we yeah before we wrap up? Absolutely. Yeah. I just want to emphasize that curiosity is not in of itself a bad thing.
00:18:58
Speaker
I think sometimes people, when we give these kind of tips and tools, they think, okay, I'm going to squash all my curiosity. It's more about thinking it in a thoughtful way of, you know, maybe having a question, reflecting on that question, maybe even asking somebody else, hey, I think you've asked this question. is it invasive or is it genuine? Kind of talking it through. And then maybe you do ask the question of that trans person and they respond in some way and you can be responsive to that.
00:19:27
Speaker
ah Or you realize maybe it's not a question i want to ask to that person, but I still want the answer and then go find some other resources. So there's ways to navigate it, but it's a little bit more dynamic and being attuned to the moment at hand to be able to know just how to um get through it. So Not trying to ah have us get rid of our curiosity, but just being more mindful about it.
00:19:52
Speaker
If you have any questions that you want us to answer or really Kai to answer, um you can email us at podcast @ transfocus.ca. And you can also find us on social media.
00:20:03
Speaker
Kai, where can they find you? On LinkedIn, Instagram, Threads, Facebook, Blue Sky, and some others. Oh, TikTok. Yeah, it's a good one.
00:20:15
Speaker
Great. um So you can also send us a message or um just tag us in a comment if you want us to answer any questions. So that's it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye for now.
00:20:26
Speaker
Bye.