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Matthew James Naisbit
208 Plays19 days ago
Meet Matt, a passionate runner whose journey started with parkrun in 2022 and has skyrocketed to chasing the prestigious 6 Marathon Majors!
From first completing the London Marathon in 2023, to achieving an impressive 2:42:41 PB in Berlin last year, to qualify for Boston and London 2025, Matt’s story is nothing short of inspiring. He opens up about discovering his talent for endurance running, the highs and lows of marathon training, and what it takes to push yourself at the marathon distance.
Whether you’re chasing your own marathon dreams or just enjoy hearing incredible stories of perseverance, tune into this episode now.
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Transcript
Introduction to Matt and His Marathon Journey
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Hello, welcome to this episode of the UK Run Chat podcast today. We're joined by another member of our community, Matt. and He's come on to talk about his goal of running all the six major marathons and tell us about how that's going. Hi Matt, thanks for coming on this evening. How are you?
00:00:20
Matt
That's all right. Thank you, Michelle. Yeah, I'm all right. Thanks. It's a big prospect to be running all six.
00:00:26
UKRunChat
Yeah?
00:00:26
Matt
I'll get there eventually, I think.
00:00:27
UKRunChat
Yes, it is, yeah.
00:00:29
UKRunChat
So tell us a little bit about yourself first of all.
00:00:29
Matt
and
00:00:33
Matt
Yeah, so I'm a professionally UK sales manager in the UK. I sell kind of food processing equipment to retail fresh food retailers. So anyone from your local Morrison's, Tesco's, et cetera, right down to your local farm shop.
00:00:49
Matt
um I kind of got into running when I met my partner.
Park Run Beginnings and Race Sign-Ups
00:00:53
Matt
um she we At the time when we were dating, she mentioned about doing this crazy thing called park run.
00:01:01
Matt
um And I couldn't think of anything worse than a load of people getting into a park and running a 5k.
00:01:07
UKRunChat
and i and It wasn't that long ago, was it?
00:01:07
Matt
So one that's that's where my that's where I got totally involved in running. and That was my It wasn't, no. So 2022 I started.
00:01:19
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:01:20
Matt
Yeah, 2022, she said, oh, come over to to my local at the time, which was Buckingham in oxford Buckinghamshire. And um we did a park run and then that was it.
00:01:32
Matt
I was hooked. ah So yeah, signed up myself to half marathons, 10 Ks. I just threw myself, you know, hazard to the wind and just sign up for everything.
00:01:42
Matt
So and that's how I got into it.
The Freedom of Running and Early Lessons
00:01:45
UKRunChat
Yeah, I mean, Park Run's a great way to get started, isn't it? I mean, what a wonderful place to start. So I'm i'm thinking back to when I started running, it was, it didn't even exist then. And I was just kind of, I think I entered a 5k race, but Park Run is, you know, it's there every single week, isn't it?
00:01:58
Matt
Yeah.
00:02:00
UKRunChat
Tell us about your first experience of it then.
00:02:03
Matt
Um, yeah, I mean, obviously I was, um, I just went in pair of shorts, pair of trainers, t-shirt. Um, and yeah, it was, it was nice. Obviously I had been living in the town for six years and I'd never, you know, I'd never got out of bed to go for a run at that time of the morning, um, or at all. So to go down there, to meet a load of people, um, it was, yeah, really great. And there was no, you know, there's no, um,
00:02:33
Matt
there's no kind of judgment when you go to park run, it's whether you're walking, jogging or running. So, um you know, I took a ah steady ah steady run round um and probably finished 30 minutes or something like that.
00:02:47
Matt
um But yeah, hooked. It was wind park run. Now, every Saturday is my, um you know, it's it's religiously park run day for us.
00:02:55
UKRunChat
Yeah, oh, that's great. So what what is it that kind of hooked you into running them? What what did you most enjoy about it?
00:03:02
Matt
I think it's just like, for me, ah probably like a sense of freedom um outside of, you know, work, outside of general life, and being busy. It just, you know, as soon as you kind of get out the door and you're just kind of heading in any direction. Yeah, it's just a sense of freedom. It's the time to think.
00:03:20
Matt
Um, time to get out there and just, um, you know, you're all on your own essentially. I'm more of a solo runner than a group runner, but, um, yeah, when I'm out there, it's just, yeah, totally really great for mental health, all that kind of thing.
00:03:24
UKRunChat
yeah
00:03:34
Matt
So that's, that's what kind of initially got me hooked. And then it was, um, just kind of putting some goals against that and trying to push for better times at park run, better times when I've actually signed up for races.
00:03:37
UKRunChat
Yeah,
00:03:46
Matt
So, um, yeah, just hooked.
00:03:49
UKRunChat
yeah so what was your first race then outside of the whole park room?
00:03:53
Matt
ice I signed up very quickly after park run um for a Buckingham half marathon and it was awful because I did no training.
00:04:03
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:04:03
Matt
So I learnt a very good lesson on how not to run a half marathon. um And yeah, that was that was my first race. It was dreadful. I finished yeah in pain and I learnt Just, you know, to, you need to have a bit of structure and get fit for these things.
00:04:23
Matt
Cause, um, yeah, and I said before, I kind of throw caution to the wind and the thing car can do this, but, uh, I really couldn't.
00:04:30
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it's a tough distance, isn't it? Especially the first time you run it. Yeah, so what changed for you after that half marathon then?
00:04:35
Matt
It is.
00:04:39
Matt
um I just think with the, you know, with the understanding that having to run something like a half-mouth and or even the marathon distance, you know, you need to take it seriously. and So putting a bit of structure in place, um probably getting myself a bit more fit and yeah, just sticking to a training plan, being consistent. um Yeah, and yeah, taking it seriously because it deserves it.
00:05:06
UKRunChat
Yeah, so do you follow kind of your own training plan or do you get somebody to do that for you?
00:05:11
Matt
Initially, i got a there's you know there's loads of places online, you can get a um ah training plan, you can get one off the NHS probably. um you know Normally, these healthcare websites can offer you free training plans.
00:05:20
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:05:25
Matt
Mine mine was just, I think initially was a four hour or ah three hour 45 marathon training plan.
First Marathon Success and Improved Performance
00:05:33
Matt
um And I just stuck to it as much as I could. General, you know, working, general life, it gets in the way of these things, we're not all elites, you know, so it's um it was very hard to stick to initially.
00:05:45
Matt
um Going from nothing to to training for a marathon is very, very difficult. So just threw myself at it and just tried to stay consistent
00:05:55
UKRunChat
Yeah. So just, just to go back a little bit. So you, you found the half marathon really tough. What then kind of prompted you to think I want to run a full marathon?
00:06:02
Matt
Yeah.
00:06:07
UKRunChat
What was the thought process?
00:06:08
Matt
um it was yeah the the The feeling afterwards probably, like everybody once they run their first race, it's kind of our when shall I put on to the next one, give myself a bigger challenge.
00:06:16
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:06:20
Matt
um yeah probably yeah Just the feeling of wanting to what else I can do, push myself. um I got into London through charity so I kind of thought to myself what's what's the next biggest event I can do and everybody I wasn't necessarily into running, I never knew what good for age was, I didn't know anything just apart from the London marathon has been on the telly forever.
00:06:44
Matt
um And yeah, people have always said, oh, you should do the London Marathon. So it's part of my family. My brother has run London before and he said, oh, you have to do London Marathon. He's going to sign up for it. He does he does it for charity every single year. So I just said, well, if I run half a marathon, I'm sure I can do a marathon. So I just made sure to include some training.
00:07:08
UKRunChat
So how did that go? Talk us through the training for it first of all.
00:07:12
Matt
Yeah, so the training was was good. It was my first time I kind of had any structure. I would always say to to people starting out running and wanting to do something like a half marathon, even right down to a 5K, just have some structure in in your training. um And it was just a plan. I said it was a free plan on online. I followed that. um i didn't i didn't read I was very anxious at first because I didn't think I would be able to run a marathon.
00:07:40
Matt
So actually within the within the training block, I think in the second to last week, I decided just to take a day, go and try and run a marathon.
00:07:50
UKRunChat
Oh, wow. So that's unusual in itself, isn't it? Because normally we wouldn't do that.
00:07:53
Matt
the
00:07:54
UKRunChat
So how?
00:07:55
Matt
No, no, exactly. Exactly.
00:07:56
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:07:56
Matt
Normally, I think normally now, at like 21 miles is probably the most 20 miles.
00:07:59
UKRunChat
yeah
00:08:01
Matt
And yeah, just mentally for me, I was just very anxious. I was thinking I kept reading stuff like, you know, in the last six miles is when the race really starts.
00:08:05
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:08:10
Matt
And is my body gonna break down or whatever? And I just thought, you know what, I'm just gonna go out, do a marathon. Doesn't matter how long it's gonna take me. I'll just go and do the distance and then I can at least know I'm going into London knowing I can run a marathon.
00:08:25
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. So how was, so that was a few weeks before the big event then. So how did your body recover after that?
00:08:32
Matt
um Yeah, I think it's because I was relatively new to running that kind of distance. People that kind of know me, I'm just really bad at strength and conditioning and any kind of recovery.
00:08:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:08:46
Matt
um So I just kind of let myself heal, um took it easy afterwards, you know, just a lot of walking, trying to stretch when I could. I actually, in fact, with the lead up to London marathon, I ran Brighton Marathon.
00:09:01
UKRunChat
Oh, wow.
00:09:02
Matt
just yeah Just to clear off the the marathon distance and you know get a medal for it.
00:09:07
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:08
Matt
um So that was like a test. I can do it in training.
00:09:10
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:09:12
Matt
I'll try and do it before London. So I threw myself into into Brighton.
00:09:16
UKRunChat
Yeah. So how how did it go then? What was the first experience of running an actual marathon event?
00:09:20
Matt
Yeah, it went well. Yeah. It went yeah it was it was went well you had a good start with the weather, it was great. um I was planning my my training plan that I was on mentioned it was about a four hour 345 marathon I actually finished in about 311.
00:09:39
UKRunChat
Yeah, wow.
00:09:40
Matt
Um, so big, a big time off. I think by that time I kind of naturally found that I was quite good at running generally. Um, so yeah, just kind of went sort of just to see how i'd I'd come out of the end of the marathon. And yeah, it was, um, everything went as well as it could have done.
00:09:57
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's fantastic, actually. So were you surprised to run that sort of time for your first marathon?
00:10:02
Matt
Very surprised.
00:10:03
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:10:03
Matt
Yeah. Not having, not having
00:10:04
UKRunChat
Because normally you think, I'd like this goal. but it's such a shock to the system that we find our first one tough.
00:10:12
Matt
Yeah, exactly. And I think that that even even probably yeah naturally running park run, I did struggle to slow down. So I don't don't like to slow down.
00:10:21
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:10:23
Matt
And within my training, I was always finding that I was running too fast. um So when I got into into the marathon, it was just kind of naturally just see how how well i can I can push on.
00:10:36
Matt
um And yeah, it's, you know, not everything goes for you on the day, um as I've learned before, but yeah, everything went well for me.
00:10:40
UKRunChat
No, no.
00:10:44
Matt
So Brighton was a success.
00:10:49
UKRunChat
Definitely. Yeah, I would call that a success.
00:10:52
Matt
Thank you.
00:10:53
UKRunChat
So how did London go after that, then? you You obviously felt a lot more confident going into that.
00:10:57
Matt
Exactly. Yeah, that was that was a big confidence boost. So the training the training was a big confidence boost coming out with no injuries and going into into Brighton Marathon.
00:11:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:07
Matt
um And yeah, coming out of Brighton knowing that I can run it a ah marathon. in that time I thought well I'll try you know I'll try do even better at London and it's um you know what with these with these big major marathons it's a very busy time you know the streets are very busy lots of cameras around lots of people you know signs that kind of thing so it's um again I didn't know what to expect but it was probably one of the best marathons that I've I've ran um
00:11:18
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:38
Matt
just for the atmosphere generally.
00:11:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:40
Matt
um And yeah, again, like it it all worked out for me.
Joining Best Athletics and Marathon Success
00:11:45
Matt
I didn't really do any kind of training in between Brighton and and London. It was just focused on walks afterwards.
00:11:54
Matt
And and yeah, it was it was fantastic. So I finished i finished London 301.
00:12:01
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:02
Matt
And that was, at this time, I had no clue what good for age time was.
00:12:05
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:07
Matt
So when I finished, everybody said, oh, you've got to be so upset with yourself. I said, why? And they just said, well, for your age category, if you ran a sub three hour marathon, you would have, you wouldn't, you know, you'd have gotten in next year for good for age.
00:12:19
Matt
And I thought, ah, God.
00:12:21
UKRunChat
So had you known that before, would you have pushed that a little bit harder, do you think?
00:12:24
Matt
Probably.
00:12:25
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:26
Matt
Yeah, probably.
00:12:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:27
Matt
um And especially, you know, not being at that time, and not being part of a local club, I didn't really know.
00:12:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:35
Matt
So as technologies moved on and availability to get onto social media and stuff, I wasn't really part of a running community.
00:12:45
UKRunChat
No.
00:12:45
Matt
I've just done my own thing and kind of signed up for London without any help or guidance generally from the outer running community generally.
00:12:55
UKRunChat
Yeah. so So at that point then, so you you finished London in just a shade over like three hours. Is that where things kind of changed for you? did what What happened then?
00:13:05
Matt
Definitely. Yeah, definitely. So that kind of gave me the the catapult, wanting that good for age time.
00:13:12
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:13:13
Matt
And, um you know, everybody I spoke to has kind of said, you know, it is tough, it's really tough um to run a sub three hour marathon. So I kind of thought, well, that's my target going into it.
00:13:27
Matt
And, and then I just kind of spent a lot of time getting back onto a training plan. So I'd, I'd recently enrolled onto Ben Parks. I think he's got like an L, whatever, L5 training plan. It was like a 255 marathon training plan. And I stuck to that as much as I could. And surprised myself again going into, going into a marathon. I was expecting kind of probably around the three hour mark and I ran a Bedford. It was the end of the qualification time that you could qualify for London 2024.
00:14:03
Matt
and I missed out I think by a few minutes um but I'd finished Bedford in 256 so I'd done the three hours but then you still need to run a little bit quicker to make that um that time.
00:14:10
UKRunChat
yeah
00:14:18
Matt
it was yeah it was um It was tough but
00:14:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
International Marathon Experiences
00:14:21
Matt
I was glad to get the um the good for age time it just wouldn't allow me into into London.
00:14:26
UKRunChat
No, that's, that's quite frustrating actually. And it seems like if those few minutes, they're not much to knock off a marathon, but actually they do require like a lot of extra effort, don't they?
00:14:36
Matt
Incredibly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
00:14:40
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:41
Matt
Yeah, so it just felt yeah just felt like after a whole year of training, getting getting what you wanted, your sub three, and then they moved the time down.
00:14:51
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's really frustrating, isn't it and it? It does seem to happen a lot. You just get kind of close.
00:14:56
Matt
Yeah.
00:14:57
UKRunChat
and So what happened then then?
00:15:00
Matt
um So basically, following Bedford, that had actually got me a good time. I joined Best Athletics, so i from twenty I think the late 2023, I joined a running club. So I joined Best Athletics. It's a club based down in London. It's probably about 600-700 people strong. global you know It's more of a community.
00:15:23
Matt
um a community club, um somewhere that gives you a bit of a sense of belonging um and and a bit of push to get these types of times down.
00:15:27
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:34
Matt
um Just a sense of achievement and and yeah I got the opportunity to go in with Adidas and Best Athletics to run Manchester Marathon.
00:15:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:45
Matt
So another training block started. um I ran a Manchester marathon that all went well and finished in about 250. So that gave me the time that I needed to get into the other marathon majors, basically. That secured my time for Chicago.
00:16:05
UKRunChat
Yeah. How did you find Manchester compared to London?
00:16:07
Matt
Very good.
00:16:08
UKRunChat
yeah
00:16:09
Matt
I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's probably one ah another one, I would say it's great. Marathon's flat. A little bit of a little bit of a hill, but it's it's absolutely fine.
00:16:19
Matt
I would recommend anybody to do it.
00:16:20
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:16:21
Matt
um Generally, when you...
00:16:21
UKRunChat
Yeah. They're on the same day, aren't they? Manchester and London.
00:16:24
Matt
Yes.
00:16:25
UKRunChat
Yes. Yeah.
00:16:26
Matt
Yeah.
00:16:26
UKRunChat
yeah
00:16:27
Matt
Yeah. And it's, you know, with these other majors, it's, you know, you you need to think about transportation and where you're staying, but Manchester makes it very, very easy.
00:16:37
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, it does. So um just on that topic then, how how easy is it to do kind of an international marathon like Chicago? Like what else do you have to take into consideration?
00:16:52
Matt
I don't take anything into consideration. My girlfriend does a lot of the planning, which I'm very thankful for. um Yeah, you obviously you do need to consider is quite expensive um and probably my carbon footprint is not as good as a lot of other people. So I'm very considerate of that. And yes, obviously, the planning try and get there, you know, three or four days beforehand.
00:17:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:18
Matt
um
00:17:19
Matt
make sure you enjoy the time. Maybe you're not necessarily going for ah for a time at PB, but enjoy the time, enjoy the marathon majors.
00:17:26
UKRunChat
yeah
00:17:30
Matt
um and I've still yet to complete them, so I haven't experienced Tokyo or New York yet.
00:17:37
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:37
Matt
um Berlin was fantastic. this I'd recommend anybody to do Berlin.
00:17:39
UKRunChat
Right.
00:17:44
Matt
Yeah, enjoy enjoy the exhibitions, enjoy the time that you've managed to to get there. And if you're going through a tour operator, you know enjoy that as well. So <unk> it's just travel.
00:17:54
UKRunChat
Yeah, I mean, with somewhere like Chicago, and you've you've got Boston coming up soon, haven't you? and I mean, how much does the time difference affect things like your fuelling and use your fee levels?
00:18:05
Matt
um is yes It's quite tough to get on to get your body clock working.
00:18:11
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:12
Matt
I haven't quite worked that out yet.
00:18:14
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:15
Matt
It's kind of, um you know, I'm waking up at three o'clock in the morning um and you're not quite, yeah, you're not you you're not quite adjusted yet but it's tough.
00:18:26
Matt
i think i I think I arrived in Chicago the day the day before. um So I didn't have much time to adapt and it was is literally straight to the exhibition, pick up your bib, night in the hotel and then it's an early morning.
00:18:34
UKRunChat
That's not long, is it? No.
00:18:43
Matt
So if you're not if you're not wide awake at one, two o'clock in the morning, you're probably asleep the day, you know, half just ah as you've got home from the exhibition and it's a lot of walking.
00:18:55
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. I mean, how early are you starting Chicago? Because I know New York, that starts very early, the New York, you have to be on the bus at a ridiculously early time, don't you?
00:19:00
Matt
the Yeah, I don't think it's as early as that. um I want to say, what time did I start? I think I wanted to say it's about nine o'clock or something.
00:19:11
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:12
Matt
I'm not 100% sure. It's all a bit of a blur, but it was it was an early it was an early one, starting in the dark and then waiting around. you know It can be quite cold.
00:19:20
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:21
Matt
um So you just need to make sure you're dressed appropriately.
00:19:22
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:26
Matt
Take a foil blanket or something. um Yeah, maybe cuddle up with someone on on the start line.
00:19:32
UKRunChat
yeah So what's been your favorite marathon so far would you say?
00:19:37
Matt
I want to say probably London because it's on home soil.
00:19:41
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:41
Matt
um You know, there's massive crowds. it's It's great to, you know, it's local. It's your hometown. So probably London, but promote ah probably secondary say Berlin.
00:19:54
Matt
I think Berlin, um you know, again, like the crowds are great.
00:19:54
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:19:59
Matt
um Chicago, the crowds are great, but for but for the PB, I think the achievement at Berlin was probably the best for me.
00:20:08
UKRunChat
Yeah. So how did Berlin go for you then in particular?
00:20:11
Matt
Yeah, it's it's one of those where um everything worked for me. So my training, I went back onto the same training plan, a 255, 250 255 training plan, and ran a 242.
00:20:29
Matt
So I think probably in hindsight knowledge is kind of key with the with your with your prior marathon experience, you're building a kind of base um ah base fitness and that's kind of probably what helped me um to get the time down.
00:20:49
Matt
But yeah, most most of my training plans are about 16 weeks and then normally kind of rolling. If I haven't signed up to too many in the year, then normally it would only be one. But I seem to be doing a training plan, running a marathon training plan and then back onto a marathon in in the summer or later in the year.
00:20:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:21:07
UKRunChat
Yeah. Because we were just chatting before we started recording work with it. You'd done Chicago and then London quite close together. Is that right?
00:21:15
Matt
and So Berlin, all right when I ran Berlin, I got, so Berlin, I was lucky in the ballot.
00:21:17
UKRunChat
Oh, yeah.
00:21:21
Matt
So I was one of the lucky ones that got into the ballot for Berlin. um And then Chicago, I got in for my good for age time.
00:21:29
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:21:29
Matt
So I couldn't say no. It's one of those where if you qualify for something, I always feel I have to do it.
00:21:35
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:21:36
Matt
And of course, Berlin is one of the most difficult ones to get in.
00:21:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:21:40
Matt
um So I went in for for both and they were a couple of weeks apart. And yeah, really, I wasn't ready for it. I'd never kind of run anything apart from Brighton and London, it kind of gave me a bit of a confidence that I could do it.
00:21:52
UKRunChat
yeah
00:21:55
Matt
But I think with Brighton with brighton in London, I wasn't running the amount of mileage I am well currently today.
00:22:01
UKRunChat
No.
00:22:02
Matt
So um with yeah with Berlin in Chicago, it was a ah lesson learned. probably not to book anything too close together, but of course now, ah yeah, more more in the in April I'm running Boston Marathon, qualified through my good 4-H time, um through Berlin 242, and then I've got London, which I got into the ballot, but I also have a good 4-H time, so, and that's a week apart.
00:22:11
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:22:28
UKRunChat
yeah Yeah, you can't not do London on you. No, you can't not do either of them really.
00:22:33
Matt
I can't do it. Yeah, no, i I'm going to have to um take a steady stroll around, I think.
00:22:38
UKRunChat
Yeah. So what what have you set as your goals for both of those races then? Because obviously one's going to have to take priority, isn't it?
00:22:45
Matt
Yeah, good question. It's quite a hard. It's quite hard. I would like to I would like to do Boston, enjoy Boston as much as I'd like to do that for London as well, um depending on how my training goes currently within my plan.
00:23:00
Matt
um I might try to go for a PB. A lot of people do tell me it's quite ah you know it's quite a fast course. A lot of it's downhill with a bit of a um a hill at the end.
00:23:10
Matt
But I think people have told me that I've done it. It's possible to get a PB. it's just but just Whatever happens on the day. So I'll test myself.
00:23:18
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the less pressure, the better as well, isn't it? Yeah, you tend to form better without that pressure.
00:23:25
Matt
Yeah, exactly. I failed, I say I failed, I didn't fail miserably. Chicago, I went out too fast and I learnt the hard way. um You know, it's important to start to start slow, start steady um and yeah I cramps very badly in Chicago in the last 10k.
00:23:47
Matt
Never again, and so I keep telling myself strength, recovery, stretching, all the important stuff as important as running itself and use that experience for the next time.
00:24:00
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, that's very sensible. So what tends to be your strategy on marathon day then in terms of pacing and fuelling? How do you tend to work it?
00:24:08
Matt
Yeah, so generally my pacing, I mean, i I have a time on my watch and I try and stick to it. um More recently, I get to about halfway. If I'm feeling great, then I just try and push on a little bit. Everybody talks about negative splits. um Berlin, I think, was the first time I'd done it. It's quite a thing to, you need to train yourself in doing.
00:24:33
Matt
um But otherwise it was just steady splits generally for all of my other marathons. But I would, you know, if if I can become a wizard at running marathons, I would try a negative split all the time.
00:24:46
Matt
I really enjoyed it.
00:24:47
UKRunChat
you
00:24:48
Matt
Your body still feels great at a certain point. And you think for even after half marathon, last 10K, if you're feeling great, then just go for it. And yeah, as long as the but strength has been there in your training, then I think yeah it's totally capable.
00:25:04
UKRunChat
Yeah, and that comes through, I guess, running kind of a lot. doesn't it but it Is it volume for you that tends to work best?
00:25:10
Matt
Exactly. Yeah, I think it's it.
00:25:11
UKRunChat
What does your training intent to look like for a marathon?
00:25:15
Matt
um so yeah Generally, on a weekly basis, it you kind of start start small. um Normally, i'm kind of I don't know whether you're working in miles or k's, but I'm going to work in k's. It's easier for me. But generally, I'm probably starting at about 60 in my first one, two weeks. It's then ramping up into about 90k. At the moment, I'm probably into my week five of my training plan.
Balancing Work and Training
00:25:40
Matt
That's at about 100k.
00:25:43
Matt
And to split that down is probably you know three, four days easy runs. Two days of that is usually tempo speed sessions um and then a long run on a Sunday.
00:25:56
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:25:56
Matt
So probably your longest run at the moment is is around 30K.
00:26:01
UKRunChat
Yeah. And what kind of pace are you doing kind of your long run at compared to your marathon pace?
00:26:06
Matt
So it's a bit of a mixture actually. Something that I've recently changed up within my plan is breaking down my long run into sections. So I'd probably start with with an easy pace moving into, which is, I'd probably set at around 436, 437 per K. And then um moving into a marathon pace is about 355.
00:26:31
UKRunChat
yeah yeah
00:26:32
Matt
and then back down to easy. So I do i do sections of it, a very minimal, maybe 2 or 3K at more of a tempo pace. So I'll drop right down to like a 335.
00:26:41
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:43
Matt
But yeah, I tend to sit in and around my marathon pace, 355. At one point, I never thought I would ever be running at that pace, really, for such a long time.
00:26:54
UKRunChat
yeah you you seem You still seem quite shocked by it.
00:26:57
Matt
I am.
00:26:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:27:00
Matt
Yeah. And I see, and I see these, you know, I see these elites running 249, whatever. And I just think it's incredible. I'm never going to be at that pace.
00:27:07
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:27:09
Matt
But I think that's um for a lot of people, you know, these um training runs or on Strava whatever they all say oh wow you're so fast and I'm just thinking this is my steady run um and then you watch them over time and then you're you're watching the more mileage that they're doing that their times coming down and I'd say to them hey look you know at one point you were saying you'd never run faster than a 530 you're running at five now so it's yeah it's incredible what the bodies of it you know can do
00:27:19
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:33
UKRunChat
yeah
00:27:38
UKRunChat
Yeah, it does work and and you've done it in an incredibly short time. So, I mean, what do you think you're capable of then? You know, you've only been running for a few years.
00:27:47
Matt
I don't know.
00:27:47
UKRunChat
oh Yeah.
00:27:48
Matt
um I really don't know. I ah probably, um I would love to get into around that but kind of 230 bracket. um So a sub 240 for me at the moment is, yeah, something I could only dream of.
00:28:04
Matt
That's, yeah, that's probably my goal.
00:28:06
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:28:07
Matt
And just take it, take take then take the next step afterwards, not to put too much pressure on myself.
00:28:12
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, and I think I think that is key, isn't it? I think you've got to be you've got to be enjoying what you do, haven't you? And and it's got to, well, it's got to mean a lot your goal, it can't become kind of all consuming, I think, otherwise it'll
00:28:20
Matt
Yeah, exactly.
00:28:26
Matt
No, exactly. not Not to put too much pressure on yourself. Enjoy the journey. you know It's the journey that counts. The training plan is all part of that journey. The places where you're running, you know all of that goes into your final day. and Yeah, generally the the marathon is your victory lap.
00:28:42
Matt
So it's it's nice to to know you've done that all and just go and enjoy yourself on the final day.
00:28:42
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:28:48
Matt
It should all come together. You know, stick to the to the plan.
00:28:49
UKRunChat
It should do, hopefully, yeah. Yeah. So you've got Boston next, then London. So what are your plans for kind of doing, ticking off those final two of the majors? And we've we've got another one joining as well, haven't we?
00:29:02
Matt
We have, there's um there's a couple joining or
00:29:05
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:06
Matt
There's a few joining, actually. Sydney should be joining. they went through the They went through last year, end of last year. So Sydney will be one. Cape Town is next and Shanghai is next.
00:29:20
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:20
Matt
I don't know how how many...
00:29:21
UKRunChat
So it's going to be one of these never ending lists, isn't it?
00:29:22
Matt
ah Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm glad they've kind of kept it to the original six because I don't think I'll get away with jet setting everywhere and I'd be broke.
00:29:30
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:38
UKRunChat
So we set yourself some kind of time goals for getting New York and Tokyo ticked off.
00:29:44
Matt
I would like to do one every single year. um That's probably, you know, depending on on life in general.
00:29:47
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:51
Matt
um But yeah, we'll see. and I'm not sure. I'll probably, yeah, probably in the next couple of years, I'd like to have both New York and Tokyo. The company that I work for is actually a Japanese company with a headquarters in Tokyo.
00:30:05
Matt
So I want to try and maybe, I don't know, get a trip to go there whilst also then running the marathon.
00:30:12
UKRunChat
that could That could work. I'm sure you can make it work, Matt.
00:30:14
Matt
ah care it could
00:30:19
UKRunChat
and So for those people out there listening and thinking, you know, I could never run a marathon that quick. I mean, you've you've you've done that quite quite quickly, haven't you? um And it seems to have come as a surprise to you. What would be your tips to people for getting the best out of their marathon running?
00:30:36
Matt
I think it is structure, definitely. I think anybody that's new to marathon running um is structure. The plan that gets put in place, you know, you don't have to, I know there's, you know, you you do get all of these new fancy apps that you can get on your phone. um You don't have to stick to those. What those apps do is is give you a structured tailored plan for you, although it's not a personalized plan.
00:31:01
Matt
and They are very good to to give you some structure and hold you accountable essentially, but there's many um training plans that you can get online which give you the same structure and as long as you're consistent, um try and stick to it as much as you can. It's not ah an all-end all, you know, if you miss a day here and there it's not going to change anything. um And it's just, yeah, just a bit of structure, get your runs done, enjoy them.
00:31:27
Matt
and don't put too much pressure on yourself because um you know once you're ticking weeks off, you're getting by, um you'll you'll go out there and yeah you'll you'll get the goal that you're you're seeking in time definitely.
00:31:39
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, that's really good advice, actually. And that word does come up a lot, actually, consistency. It's so important, isn't it?
00:31:44
Matt
Yes, yeah, yeah. For me it worked wonders because I'm probably one of the most unorganized people.
00:31:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:31:50
UKRunChat
How are you?
00:31:52
Matt
Well, I just kind of, yeah, just kind of, you know, book something like my races, you know, just book anything and go and do it with no real plan. um So having ah having a training plan, you know, printed off, I have it on the fridge or on the dining room table and I wake up in the morning, I know exactly what I need to do today um and I just try and stick to it as best as I can.
00:32:14
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's important to kind of know what's coming up in your week, isn't it? To kind of plan it in, into your life.
00:32:18
UKRunChat
you know Yeah.
00:32:18
Matt
Yes, yeah, definitely.
00:32:20
Matt
Yeah, definitely. Especially, you know, I said earlier, you know, we're not all elite runners. and We've all got a day job to do. I would love to be able just to, all I do is run, run coaching or whatever.
00:32:33
Matt
um So yeah, you just need to, you know, stay humble with it.
00:32:38
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:39
Matt
You've got, you've got a day job.
Becoming a Run Leader and Future Goals
00:32:40
Matt
You just do as much as you can.
00:32:42
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. And you are a run leader, aren't you, for your club? Is that right?
00:32:46
Matt
I am, yeah, more recently, more recently.
00:32:47
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:49
Matt
So yeah, um actually, as of only last week, qualified as a run leader. So that was, yeah, that was really great. It's something else that I kind of thought about, well, whilst I'm doing a lot of running anyway, um what can I do to also give back to the local community?
00:33:05
Matt
We don't have run leaders necessarily. I think I've got one in my local town.
00:33:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:33:10
Matt
um So yeah, becoming a run leader, there's a lot more, you know, these run clubs starting up in and around. So if I can kind of help um within the local community, you know, give back ah something else than being a run leader is part of that.
00:33:24
UKRunChat
Yeah, oh, that's great. So is that is that your plan then to kind of get something set up locally to help people?
00:33:30
Matt
Yeah, I haven't thought about it much, but I will.
00:33:32
UKRunChat
Well, yes.
00:33:34
Matt
But yeah, definitely. Yeah, I do think so. Being and being involved in either, you know, the local club or um or ah or a run club of some sort, even, you know, if it's a couch to 5K, something like that, um then yeah, being able to to give people a safe environment to do that, being a run leader, then yeah, definitely thinking about doing that or even moving on to the next step for coaching.
00:33:58
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so important to get involved at a community level like that, isn't it? Because it can be quite a daunting thing. Like if your girlfriend hadn't have taken you to Park Run, you would have had to kind of find another way in, wouldn't you?
00:34:10
Matt
Yes, exactly.
00:34:11
UKRunChat
And yeah.
00:34:14
Matt
And my local my local club is probably, you know, it's you look at the running track and, you know, surrounded by fences, there's a big door that, you know, most people aren't going to go knock on and say, hey, can I come in and join the club?
00:34:22
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:26
Matt
You know, there's not, you know, nobody actively going out there and looking for or wanting to help people join or even start running. So um that's what I talked about earlier, you know, having the ability to go onto social media, join a club like Best Athletics. It gives you a sense of belonging and and then you kind of look for what's next. You know, I'll go i'll go meet someone in the local club and then, um you know, it will just kind of go from there.
00:34:54
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you have to keep us posted with how that all goes as well. Let us know.
00:34:59
Matt
Oh, definitely.
00:35:00
UKRunChat
Yeah. um So aside from the marathon majors, are there any other races that you'd really like to do?
00:35:10
Matt
um There is a big one. um i did ah Funny enough, we haven't spoken about it, but after um after the Brighton Marathon and London Marathon, I thought I'd top it off with running London to Brighton, it's 100k.
00:35:23
UKRunChat
oh wow yeah
00:35:25
Matt
So i did I did that and um with the thought that one day I would like to do a comrades in South Africa. So I grew up in in South Africa for 10 years and some family that are still over there have have ran comrades before so it's always one of those ones I've wanted to tick off um that and probably two oceans.
00:35:47
UKRunChat
Oh, wow, yeah. Yeah, wow. That'll be, yeah, that'll be special actually, weren't it, going back there? so
00:35:53
Matt
Exactly, and he goes it goes in to my to where I used to live in Durban, so it's close by to the family and it would just be a ah nice return to go and do something like that.
00:35:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:36:06
UKRunChat
So it is it carries that changes direction each year? does it Yeah.
00:36:10
Matt
Yes once I think I don't know what is this year but it's a downhill or uphill and most people say the uphill is it's better because a lot of the downhills harder than ease.
00:36:16
UKRunChat
Oh, we had yeah. Yeah, I can imagine that's quite tough, actually.
00:36:27
UKRunChat
you know Which way would you want to do it then?
00:36:27
Matt
yeah
00:36:28
Matt
and
00:36:28
UKRunChat
Would you want to kind of run into Durban then, do you think?
00:36:33
Matt
probably I would probably want if everybody suggests uphill I would probably want to do uphill but you know if it's all down then yeah probably my knees would be a bit like bubble wrap afterwards it's about it's about 89k so it's not as long as that as a continuous 100k but yeah it's still you know still an important one
00:36:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:36:57
UKRunChat
Yeah. What an iconic race though. Yeah. That would be cool.
00:37:00
Matt
It is, yeah.
00:37:01
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:02
Matt
And i've kind of I've kind of dabbled in various other trail runs, fell runs, and yeah, it's probably running running up mountains and things isn't really for me.
00:37:13
UKRunChat
No. So is marathon your distance? I might. Is that fair to say? Or, you know, how do you find the other distances?
00:37:19
Matt
I really enjoyed marathons. I really, probably my favorite distance is half, is a half marathon.
00:37:25
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:26
Matt
and I didn't necessarily like five or 10k, but it's more recently I've started enjoying them a bit more, um probably because
00:37:35
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:37
Matt
5k just feels like an all-out sprint and 10k and 10k is just an all-out sprint um just for a little bit longer so um but yeah more recently i think with especially with training for um for these marathons is you'll notice your other times coming down you know with the increased mileage and the endurance and your speed or generally you know
00:37:40
UKRunChat
but Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:55
UKRunChat
no
00:38:00
Matt
be able to maintain that a bit bit more. So yeah within the training blocks that's normally with if when I'm running a 10k my times are are not not so
Park Run Adventures and Future Aspirations
00:38:10
Matt
bad. So I think last year PB didn't mind local Northampton 10k that was like a 33 42 which again I would have never thought I would have ever got under you know 35 minutes. So
00:38:25
UKRunChat
Yeah, the marathon training is a bit magic like that, isn't it? Yeah.
00:38:29
Matt
it is yeah yeah and then i have this crazy thought in my mind i would just love to also just run a track you know just go and do a 400 and just see how you are against uh you know one of these track runners but i'm not sure no no not at all
00:38:30
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:44
UKRunChat
yeah Have you never done any track then? No. Yeah.
00:38:50
Matt
No, it's always, it's always, um yeah, I've always thought I'd like to see how I do. But um I just don't know if ah if I just have this thought in my mind that everybody would be gone past me.
00:39:05
UKRunChat
Oh, yeah, you'll have to go and try and find out.
00:39:08
Matt
I will.
00:39:08
UKRunChat
It'd be interesting to see, wouldn't it?
00:39:09
Matt
I will. Yeah, definitely.
00:39:10
UKRunChat
Yeah. And what about kind of cross country, ah those sorts of races? Are they for you or not? Are you purely road?
00:39:19
Matt
Purely wrote, when I was a bit younger growing up in South Africa, cross-country was quite ah quite a big thing. um Used to you know be have the ability to go and run for your county, is very similar to what you do here.
00:39:25
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:39:32
Matt
um But I never really got involved in it. and A lot of my friends did. But yeah, cross-country now, I wish I'd started running 20 years ago. I wish I really got into it following school and things like that.
00:39:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:39:47
Matt
but yeah more probably it's the worry everybody worries you know if you're running marathons if you're in training blocks and you're running cross-country it's much easier to get injured you know my legs are probably a little bit like bambi at the moment so any kind of falling down a hole or something i just i just worry
00:40:02
UKRunChat
and so Yeah. How do you look after your legs and how how do you recover?
00:40:11
Matt
So I'll take it a little bit more seriously now, I never used to. um And that's one thing I'll pass on to to everybody is your recovery and you're taking into consideration your strength and stretching, your warmup.
00:40:20
UKRunChat
yeah
00:40:24
Matt
I never used to do any of that. So yeah, going into, you know after running Berlin and Chicago, ah just I've taken it a bit more seriously, do a lot of stretching.
00:40:35
Matt
I always kind of went out the front of the house, never really stretched before a run. um And obviously that can just kind of aggravate injuries and things. Touchwood have never really had a ah great big injury, more so the shin splints and things like that. um But yeah, just make sure you're stretching. Make sure you're spending as long as and you can on recovery. Do a bit of strength work because it'll really, really help with not with not getting injured.
00:41:05
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. So what else do you do aside from running or is it just is it just running that you do?
00:41:10
Matt
It is just running. it's very yeah that's That's it. yeah um Outside of that, it's work and running.
00:41:18
UKRunChat
you You clearly love it. Yeah, you it's you've clearly got that running bug. It's nice to see.
00:41:24
Matt
Yeah, got the bug for it very early, I say very early on. I wish i'd I had started much earlier, but yeah, any anything to do with running, park run Saturday, you know, is is I just love it.
00:41:30
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:41:38
Matt
So we'll see we'll see where it goes.
00:41:39
UKRunChat
Yeah. Do you do a lot of patron tourism or do you tend to stick to the same pew?
00:41:46
Matt
I do. um So as of last week or the week before, we just finished off Alphabet. and say yes if So if no if anybody doesn't really understand know Parkrun or it's not really a Parkrun initiative, and obviously with doing your A to Z of Parkrun is going around the country and finding
00:41:53
UKRunChat
Oh, I love it, doesn't it? Wow.
00:42:11
Matt
The local park runs all within the alphabet, so we travelled over to Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago to get our Zuda Park done, which ticks off the Z. So um that is a challenge that we've done.
00:42:21
UKRunChat
fantastic
00:42:24
Matt
But like like I mentioned, this yeah it's It's not something that park run would would generally push with the travel and carbon footprint, but I think with a lot of park runners, tourism is quite important as well, just to also give back volunteering and in different in different park runs and things.
00:42:43
UKRunChat
Oh, fantastic.
00:42:46
Matt
so
00:42:47
UKRunChat
Yeah, no, the the challenges are really quite good fun. So what's, what's the next parkrun challenge? I know you've done your alphabet.
00:42:55
Matt
um I think it's probably going to be the names. I didn't pick Matt. I picked Matthew with have two Ts.
00:43:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:43:04
Matt
So now I need to find a park run with the two Ts. My my girlfriend's a bowls player. So we do travel around the county a bit.
00:43:14
Matt
um And when she's playing for England, traveling up to Scotland and Wales, you know, we we we do get to go to various different park runs.
00:43:23
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, that helps. Which has been your favourite, would you say, so far?
00:43:28
Matt
Oh, hard one. um
00:43:32
Matt
There are so many. there i really I really enjoy my local one. um Anywhere with a bit of scenery, I think I want to say which one is the one in Newcastle, which is the last 5k or whatever of there um the Great North Run.
00:43:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:43:49
UKRunChat
Oh, that's our shields.
00:43:51
Matt
and Yeah, yes one of it's one of the ones in Newcastle, but it's it's really um the scenery is quite nice and you're running over some cliffs and you finish on on the last section of the Great North Run, so that's always a nice one.
00:43:53
UKRunChat
Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
00:44:04
UKRunChat
Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah.
00:44:07
Matt
yeah
00:44:09
UKRunChat
and Right, so should we finish with a quick fire round then?
00:44:13
Matt
Oh, let's go for it.
00:44:14
UKRunChat
and So, yeah.
00:44:15
Matt
Do I need to be honest or shall I reverse honestly?
00:44:18
UKRunChat
Yeah, as honest as you can be. So this or that. and Morning or evening runs.
00:44:24
Matt
um evening road
00:44:26
UKRunChat
Okay. um Road or trail. Hills or flat roots.
00:44:33
Matt
flat ah
00:44:35
UKRunChat
ah Run in the rain or run in the heat.
00:44:39
Matt
it's got to be rain yeah hot is uh yeah dislike the heat long runs
00:44:40
UKRunChat
Are you like, yeah, the rain is quite popular actually when I, yeah.
00:44:47
UKRunChat
because Long runs or speed sessions.
00:44:53
UKRunChat
Music or no music.
00:44:56
Matt
I'm actually in no music.
00:44:58
UKRunChat
Yeah, i'm I'm the same actually.
00:44:59
Matt
I started music.
00:45:00
UKRunChat
It throws off my stride, I think when I'm when I've got music.
00:45:03
Matt
Yeah.
00:45:04
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:45:05
Matt
Yeah, no, I started i started music. um And then, yeah, I don't know what it is. I just thoroughly enjoy everything happening around me, I think.
00:45:13
UKRunChat
yeah Yeah, that's great. ah medals or memories.
00:45:18
Matt
ah It's got to be memories.
00:45:20
UKRunChat
Yeah. And shorts or leggings.
00:45:21
Matt
Yeah, it's got to be memories. Oh, shorts.
00:45:25
UKRunChat
All year round.
00:45:27
Matt
All year round. yeah As long as you you know you can wear a hat and gloves, I can still be in shorts.
00:45:31
UKRunChat
Yeah. And then just to finish off, I really like this question. So if you could have one superpower to enhance your running, what would it be?
00:45:43
Matt
um yeah Tough one. I'm very lazy at doing strength, so i would probably I would probably say strength just to avoid the need to go into the gym.
00:45:52
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. So just be kind of naturally strong. Yeah.
00:45:58
Matt
naturally strong and yeah just I can challenge myself on the speed then so I think yeah I would say that I'm very bad at it
00:46:03
UKRunChat
Yeah, true. Yeah, you've mentioned kind of strength a few times. Is that something you are planning to incorporate more of in the future or? Yeah.
00:46:15
Matt
And I know how important it is. So I have i have incorporated it into my past plans. um But when you know you wake up in the morning and you think, oh, I need to go and do a gym session or whatever. And I'm just, it's it's easier for me to get out and go for a run than it is for me just to go out into outside in the garage or go to the gym to to get in a strength session. But um I will be adding more strength in for sure, because I'll be told off.
00:46:46
UKRunChat
Well, we look forward to seeing what you can do in Boston um and do keep you posted.
00:46:51
Matt
Yeah, thank you.
00:46:52
UKRunChat
We love seeing you tag us into your kind of training weeks and what you've been up to.
00:46:56
UKRunChat
and
00:46:57
Matt
Yeah, no, thank you very much and yeah appreciate coming on.
00:47:00
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Thanks. It's been lovely chatting to you. Like like we said earlier, could we could chat about running all all day, couldn't we?
00:47:06
Matt
Oh, yeah, I could be here forever.
00:47:06
UKRunChat
and Yeah.
00:47:09
UKRunChat
and So where can our listeners find you online, Matt, if they want to follow your kind of marathon running?
00:47:15
Matt
So if you just search, um Matt's always running. um Generally you can find me mostly on Instagram. I have dabbled in the other social media platforms.
00:47:27
Matt
um So yeah, it's generally mostly on Instagram. I'm starting to get involved with more YouTube and TikTok stuff, but that can be another day.
00:47:37
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it's hard to keep on top of it all, isn't it? And, you know, yeah, yeah, we just want to be out running, don't we?
00:47:40
Matt
Ah, there's so many things, yeah. So many things.
00:47:46
Matt
That's it. That's it.
00:47:47
UKRunChat
Yeah. oh Well, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure.
00:47:50
Matt
No, thank you.
00:47:51
UKRunChat
Yeah. And thank you to all of those out there listening. and We hope you've enjoyed the episode. And if you'd like to come on and chat to us, then do feel free to get in touch and we will see you on the next episode.