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With Cameron McCartney
64 Plays4 years ago
Universities and colleges can provide incredible opportunities, not just for education and career, but also developing one's relationships, worldview and values. Bringing the gospel into this environment can be challenging but very rewarding, as we hear from a former Christian Union leader about his experiences.
Cameron McCartney is a Primary Education student at the University of Stirling in Scotland. He has been involved in CU leadership and student evangelism throughout his time at university. He is passionate about people discovering more about who Jesus is and walking with them through that journey. He loves how God uses weak and unworthy people to proclaim the glorious and precious gospel.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to this edition of a pep talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast. I'm Andy Bannister, the director of Solas, the Center for Public Christianity, based up here in Scotland. And as ever, I'm joined by my effervescent co-host, Christy there coming to us from London. How are you doing today, Christy?
00:00:30
Speaker
Effervescent. I mean, I'll take that. That was a good wedding. I'm even better now. Thank you. Doing well. Thanks. Yourself? I'm doing pretty good, pretty good. I'm really excited, actually, by the guest we have on the show today. Many of the guests we have on pep talk, people I perhaps know from having come across them, I haven't worked with them. But our guest today is someone I have worked with, and Cameron McCartney. Cameron, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Andy. It's great to be here.
00:00:57
Speaker
Cameron, you are the former president of the Christian Union, the CU, at Stirling University, although currently I gather it in Belfast because of coronavirus.
Understanding Christian Union Mission Weeks
00:01:07
Speaker
Yep, that's me.
00:01:09
Speaker
And I got to know Cameron through you. We've done several things at Stirling University. But one of the things I loved working with you folks at Stirling on in the CU there was that was the mission week. And we do a lot of mission weeks at Solas. Christy does a lot of mission weeks. People listening may have no idea, Cameron, what a CU mission week is on university. For people who have got no experience of this, what is a CU mission week? Why are they exciting? Why were you passionate about doing them?
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, great question. So basically the vision of all the Christian unions in Great Britain is to give every student at universities and colleges the opportunity to hear and respond to the good news of Jesus Christ.
00:01:53
Speaker
And missions weeks are the focal point of the year for many Christian unions, as that's when we'll take five days, a whole week. Maybe it'll be more like two or three days for perhaps smaller Christian unions, but for most universities it's going to be something like five days. And we'll dedicate the whole week
00:02:14
Speaker
and to doing events which allow people to hear the gospel in different settings and with different people. And Andy, you were with us last year when we were doing our missions week on the theme of work in progress.
00:02:32
Speaker
This year we did it on a theme, something more. Normally we do it as sort of a theme like that, which is very approachable for people. And they're able to just come and hear the gospel in a really accessible way.
00:02:45
Speaker
Cameron, it's so good to hear you talk about the vision of CU's. As we were chatting beforehand, we all have some kind of experience with them. I wonder what for you has been some of the challenges and highlights of CU mission? I've only been at Stirling University for not even three years, and I just feel like it's been such a significant part of my life, just being involved in the CU mission there.
Highlights and Themes of Mission Weeks
00:03:13
Speaker
Some of the highlights for me, probably the biggest highlight is just being able to open the word with people. I find that using the Uncover resource that UCCF has created is just such a beneficial thing to do for everyone involved and people begin to just understand
00:03:36
Speaker
a part of who Jesus Christ is through the document which is the most clear about him. So many students and so many people in general just have so many different opinions which have been formed over the years about
00:03:52
Speaker
You know, God is bad. God hates people and all these different things. But actually, when we take a look at the book and we look at Mark's gospel and see what it says, we actually realize that Jesus is good and he comes to save sinners.
00:04:09
Speaker
not to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. And I think just watching people understand that for the first time is just a wonderful experience and a wonderful thing to do. And just to see people come and be saved and know salvation.
00:04:26
Speaker
and through doing those studies is just fantastic. And I think for me, that sort of uncover thing has definitely been my highlight of being part of the Christian Union.
Exploring the Uncover Project
00:04:40
Speaker
Amazing. I mean, just to clarify, for those of us who haven't heard of the Uncover Project, it's looking at a Gospel, isn't it? It's essentially kind of the Gospels, the three of them, and then interspersed, we have different study questions to best engage with the passage and see what God is saying to us through it. So they really seek a Bible studies, aren't they, that are put together in a really beautiful kind of aesthetic, hardbound kind of book. Is that right?
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I just find that, you know, you know, the way that we find out the most about God and about Jesus is obviously through the word, through reading the Bible. And, you know, that's our point of wisdom and knowledge and information about him. It's like our academic journal about Jesus's life. And, you know, it just makes so much sense to read it with people.
00:05:34
Speaker
I think from watching people read it and hear it and see it for the first time is just great.
00:05:42
Speaker
I just love the infectious enthusiasm you have for the gospel and the Bible and for Jesus, Cameron. It's so exciting to hear. A question I'd like to put to you, I know there are a lot of myths about places like universities. And one of the myths I think I sometimes hear in the churches is that universities are like spiritual deserts. They're so secular, they're so tough.
00:06:05
Speaker
Is that what you're finding or do students actually in your experience when you talk to your friends and classmates, are there sort of spiritual questions that people are asking when you take the time to get to know them?
Debunking Myths: Spiritual Curiosity at Universities
00:06:18
Speaker
Oh, that's a brilliant question. Yeah, so I mean, definitely when I went to university for the first time, I guess I was maybe a little bit surprised about the sort of university culture, the university life, and what that's like, the typical estrogen life. But I definitely find, from the time that I have been there, that absolutely, the harvest is plentiful.
00:06:45
Speaker
and the labors are few. I find that even in my first year when I was living in student halls, I'm not living with anyone I knew particularly well. I think throughout the course that year, just meeting people for the first time from a ton of different backgrounds,
00:07:04
Speaker
And just getting into conversations on a Saturday night and people just naturally bringing up God was amazing and just actually saying that in the midst of all these things and drunk parties and people not even being able to be thinking straight, God is still on their mind.
00:07:27
Speaker
And I would say that, yes, the typical student life is always going to be out there. But 100%, everyone's searching, everyone's seeking for something greater. And I've definitely witnessed that and seen that happen. And it's been wonderful to just have even 30 second conversations about who God is, who Jesus is, and just trying to break down a few of those myths.
Engaging Students with 'Dial a Dishwasher' Initiative
00:07:56
Speaker
I think, actually, if I could just add, one of the best times I've seen this happen is actually in Stirling CU, we do quite a unique little thing called dial a dishwasher. We're basically, we have a dishwasher service whereby you can ring a phone number if you live and shoot an accommodation on the campus, and you can come in, you can ring, and then we'll go out to your kitchen.
00:08:22
Speaker
we'll clean it. But I've done this loads of times now, probably like 10, 15 times since I've started uni. And then just 10 or 15 different kitchens. And
00:08:37
Speaker
There's never ever been any time when people haven't asked us questions about Jesus when we've gone there. In every single experience that I've had, you know, people don't hide in the rooms and just shy away. People come in, you know, sometimes like whole flats will come and come together and sit in their kitchen wanting to ask questions about what it is we do, why are we here.
00:09:01
Speaker
And yeah, I just think it's amazing that people clearly do care about these questions, about faith.
00:09:09
Speaker
I think that's one of the things that I really love about CU's is that you're creating, well, you are a missional community on campus. And so having things like diet or dishwasher, you're able to bring people into that loving missional community and helping them to taste and see the goodness of Jesus and the quality of transformed relationships as well. What kind of questions come up in those discussions, you know, potentially late night discussions after having cleaned their kitchens? What are some common questions?
Common Questions about Faith in University Discussions
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, so I think, I mean, there's obviously, there's so many different things. But I think the main thing that I continually see come up is that a lot of people hold this perception that either they think God is bad, or not that they think God is bad, that they think God is
00:10:07
Speaker
not worth it. I find that a lot of people fall into one of those two categories of questions and that they think God is bad for all the wars that have happened, all the hunger that exists in the world and all these things, or that God is not worth it because what difference will it make to my life if I follow an invisible, unknown God?
00:10:30
Speaker
And I think those are two points which we've had to deal with and had to think about and how we can respond to those things. And I know that's a very common talk topic. Why would a good God allow suffering?
00:10:46
Speaker
And it is such a massive question, but I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that God first created the world without suffering. And the Garden of Eden, there was no suffering. And in the new heaven, he doesn't want there to be suffering. But suffering is induced by our sin and our wrongdoing.
00:11:13
Speaker
And that was not God's original plan on the Garden of Eden for that to be the way it is, but now that is the way it is. And I think I often then challenge people to say, you know,
00:11:27
Speaker
There's a big problem in the world, and if it's not God, then it has to be humans. And if humans are a problem, then that means we're a problem, that means me and you're a problem, and that means you're a problem. And I think that is often not received very well, but I think fundamentally to understand the gospel, we need to realize that we are wretched, that we are wrong people.
00:11:53
Speaker
and that we are in need of a savior. And I think that's how those questions are often navigated in talks as well. And it is such a big question, and it's a hard one for people to think about for the first time as well. But yeah, we'll see how that goes.
00:12:14
Speaker
I think that's really helpful stuff there, Cameron. So far we've talked a bit about kind of mission on campus in the context of the CU and obviously you were the president there and led that community for a while and all the missions and the activities and projects like the Darla dishwasher.
Personal Evangelism on Campus
00:12:32
Speaker
But also, obviously for a lot of students as well, evangelism on campus can also be personal, right? You have opportunities with friends and peers and classmates. Due your time as a student, what are some of the things that you've learned about how to not just do the evangelism in the kind of bigger CU context, but also I know you've put your faith into practice just one-to-one as well. What are some of the things that you've tried and learnt and things that you've seen Papis God do through you as you've stepped out and done that?
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah, so I find that, so I think it's a lot, it's just responding to your everyday life and your everyday interactions with the people who you're seeing. For me, I realized very early on that, you know,
00:13:16
Speaker
I'm not able to meet up with 60,000 people a week and have coffee with them. You've got to narrow that down to a small number of people who you're wanting to really get to know. And in our flat that we've just moved out of, but where I was staying for the past two years, we had a spare bedroom
00:13:38
Speaker
We basically lived in a three bedroom flat, which we couldn't get an HMO for. So we had a spare bedroom there and we decided to occupy that spare bedroom with a table tennis table. And that was actually so helpful because I was able to, on numerous occasions, I would have friends around, people from within the Christian Union and people from without as well, and have them around at the table tennis table
00:14:07
Speaker
just a lot of time one-on-one and I find that we you know you would have really truthful and really serious conversations just as you're hitting a ping-pong ball across the table and that as people just start to really open up and I find that actually by focusing on a few and really wanting to be friends with a few as well and it is so important and I think I learned as well that you know
00:14:37
Speaker
we can't treat people like projects. We really do, as Christians, need to befriend people and have those long-lasting friendships which are sacrificial and which put other people ahead. And I think it looks different for different people as well. You know, I have non-Christians friends who
00:14:59
Speaker
It was a lot of mainly just conversation and more doing practical things and maybe not as much chat about the Bible just because of the nature of a person's personality. But then I had other people who I knew and was good friends with who were really, really keen on the whole
00:15:19
Speaker
uncover thing and we're really keen to do that every week. And some people just aren't as keen to do it as often or maybe aren't keen to do it at all. And I think for other students in a similar position to me, I think I would say at this point, I wouldn't feel guilty for my friends saying no to an invitation to uncover or saying no to an invitation to an event.
00:15:45
Speaker
and because ultimately you know it's it's it's gory as the par and to see if on the work in people's hearts and to stir up people's hearts to worship him um and you know uh there's been so many occasions and when i've been rejected um from in for invitations which i've made
00:16:03
Speaker
or from authors to read the Bible. And then that's a new fault of my own and it's not the fault of anyone else's either. And I think it's really important that we don't feel bad for that, you know, because I think it can be very easy too.
00:16:17
Speaker
You've shared so many wonderful encouragements there, Cameron. I was particularly struck by what you said about friendships. I was reading something the other day that said that each person, you can only have about seven people with whom you meaningfully engage with in your life on a day-to-day basis, meaningful friendships. How would you encourage those who think
Encouragement for Faith Sharing and Friendship
00:16:41
Speaker
I'm quite happy with my own Christian friends and the thought of befriending people who just live very differently. You may have grown up in a Christian background, you're at university for the first time, you're seeing the university culture, you're greeted with apathy, or sometimes just outright rejection. You really helpfully address that last bit, but how would you encourage people to actually get out there and make friends?
00:17:08
Speaker
Yeah, wow, that's a really good question. And it does just feel so hard sometimes, because obviously the body of Christ is just such an attractive thing for anyone, regardless of their faith. And the Christian Union is just so attractive for anyone. And I've seen that there's just so many, even people who have never been to church before, just coming and wanting to be part of the Christian Union, just because it's such a strong and attractive body of unity.
00:17:37
Speaker
But yeah, 100% trying to make friends is a challenge. But also, in ways, it is just so easy. I think it's important that we're careful of the context in which we do that. I know that myself, I've
00:17:58
Speaker
This is more of a personal thing, but I've stayed away from nightclubs my whole time at UNI just because I knew that I would probably be much more tempted in those situations and would be much more tempted to do something silly. So I've stayed away from those. Not to say that those things are bad for everyone, but I knew for me and my own conscience that wouldn't have been a good idea.
00:18:20
Speaker
But I think it's important that we meet people in situations and scenarios where it's easy to get to know them on a deeper level. And I think, I mean, I do a primary education course, but I have a lot of friends who do maybe deeper courses, things like philosophy or psychology, which require a lot more thinking than just one-on-one or two-on-two. But I think
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, you can have coursemates who are already thinking deeply about politics or about science, and you can very easily work in to those topics with the Gospel, because they're just such massive topics anyway. And we can approach the Gospel from a philosophical worldview or a scientific worldview from different ways.
00:19:08
Speaker
And I think also just the classic sports team or different society as well, just people enjoying hockey or rugby or football or whatever it is, is just a great way to meet people and make friends who are like-minded individuals.
00:19:30
Speaker
I'm terrible at football, but this year I've started playing for a social football team just because I enjoy it. And it was great to make friends and be around other like-minded people who just want to enjoy football. And you can get to know a little bit about each other. And even if it's low-key things like I'm Cameron and I go to church, it's so much better than saying nothing.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah. As we're coming towards the end, Cameron, one last question. I wanted to throw your way. I mean, there's been so much really helpful stuff you shared. Thank you so much. But one last question. I thought I'd love to get your perspective on your, obviously, you know, coming to the end of another year or so, I think, to go on your course and then you're going to be going out to the world of work, the world of teaching.
Lessons for Professional Life and Integrity
00:20:21
Speaker
What do you think of it? Hard to, I guess, fully answer this, but I'd be interested to hear what you think. What kind of lessons do you think there are that maybe you've learned in terms of being evangelism on campus that you hope you'll be able to carry with you into the world of work? Because not everyone's listening because this is a student, but I suspect some of the things that you found on campus will probably work quite well in the world of work as well. And I wondered what kind of thinking you've done around there, that what you've learned now, that hopefully God willing, will pay you really good dividends in the future in terms of evangelism.
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. What a question. I definitely learned. I think when I look back in the past three years of my time being at uni, definitely the thing that stood out for me is that if you're on committee or if you're a CU president or if you're a CU member or you're a Christian anywhere, our lives require integrity at all levels.
00:21:14
Speaker
And that's been something which I have just found so challenging. I can't step up in front of CU and say all this Jesus jargon and then go home and just act totally differently and do things which I shouldn't be doing.
00:21:31
Speaker
And I think that was just such a challenge for me the whole time I was on committee, just thinking that my life doesn't add up to what I say and to what I act like when I'm in church or when I'm at CU and how that's different to when I'm at home.
00:21:53
Speaker
Christians are meant to be holy and set apart from the world and that means that we're set apart in every way, in our home life, in our family life.
00:22:08
Speaker
like totally upside down challenging and how you know how I've come to realize how um how little integrity and there is in my life sometimes and then I think that's so important for for anyone whether you're a student um for me going into the world of work that will be something which I'll need to remember you know um that we need integrity on in the workplace and um as well you know the way we get on and in our offices needs to be the same way we would get on um in church
00:22:37
Speaker
And I think that's just been so challenging and that the character of Jesus needs to be reflective in our own character and we need to be showing the fruit of grace and love and hope and purity and faith in all that we do and that our characters would just be rich and overflowing with joy.
Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode
00:23:02
Speaker
and Jesus in every aspect of our life. And I just think that would be my last piece of advice. That's a great place to end it, Cameron. We're better than to end it on Jesus. But Cameron, we've hugely enjoyed having you on the show. Thanks so much for making the time. Oh, yeah, no worries. And we'll be back for listeners in two weeks' time for another episode of Pep Talk. Thanks for joining us.
00:23:30
Speaker
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00:23:48
Speaker
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