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Episode 117: AEW Year One w/ The Curtain Jerks
58 Plays5 years ago
This week the Predetermined boys and Chris and Fax from The Best There Ever Was are teaming up again to discuss AEW year one!
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:36
Speaker
Ah, such a good song.
Introduction & Podcast Theme
00:00:39
Speaker
Welcome to The Best There Ever Was. The professional wrestling podcast, we talk about the art form that is pro wrestling and the emotional connection that keeps us coming back. As always, I'm Chris. I'm Vax. And we are the curtain jerks. And on this season of The Best There Ever Was, as I told you last week, we're doing something special. We're doing some quarantine podcasts and talking about everything that's important in the world of wrestling right now.
AEW's First Year: Highlights & Guests
00:01:00
Speaker
And of course, one of the most important things is we just hit the one year anniversary of AEW.
00:01:05
Speaker
Oh yeah, and I gotta say, I am prepared for this one. If I had studied for the SATs, half as hard as I've studied year one of AEW over the last week, I would have went to a much fancier college. And you know what, we're joined, as we were last week, by our friends from Peter Determined, Garrett and Derek. How you guys doing? That's how we're doing, yeah. Two claws, two sips.
00:01:34
Speaker
Doing great. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Hey, and like the good boys that we are, we showed up scheduled, suit and tie, looking dapper. No, I'm just kidding. We do run-ins. We do run-ins. Who's the heel podcast? Like FTR in a car, just driving down. We just drove down into your podcast.
00:01:58
Speaker
that's very well i i was excited to do this with you guys last week and now i think we are super excited to be back for week two here and no one's food got stolen today so that's that's a highlight nobody's food was stolen today but somebody's food was obscenely late today so only mildly annoyed
00:02:17
Speaker
But I think it's better that I have an edge when I record. I think Garrett can vouch for this when I come in a little perturbed. That's when we get some of the best stuff. And we have a topic that we're going to sink our teeth into for a while. AEW year one. Well, presumably is going to make us all happy, right? I mean, this has been I don't know about you guys. I feel pretty good about year one of AEW. I guess I'll put it to you guys. Do you feel like year one of AEW lived up to your expectations going into it?
00:02:47
Speaker
Absolutely, this is everything that I've been wanting as a wrestling fan for so long. Well, what is that specifically for you? What have you been looking for that AEW provided? Chuck Taylor on my television every single week. Orange Cassidy on my television every single week. Tony Schiavone and his little earring on my television every single week. Skinny Tony. Skinny Tony, I love it.
00:03:16
Speaker
a real wrestling show that's enjoyable and makes sense and builds to things that I'm excited about. I think that labeling themselves as an alternative to WWE is very appropriate. I think that there are people there that you're familiar with, but I don't think that the show feels like anything WWE has ever produced.
Production & Character Development in AEW
00:03:35
Speaker
Is that fair to say? I think so. I was thinking a lot this week about like what
00:03:39
Speaker
AEW sort of like is a descendant of and I really don't think it's WWE in any way other than maybe like WWE in like 2000 that one like end of the attitude era year that where it wasn't quite where there's like good wrestling to but I really think production wise it looks like nitro right like visually it's that
00:04:01
Speaker
But I think you get there's lots of different pieces of it. There's some ECW to it. There's some Mid-South. I know Tony Khan says he loves his old school Bill Watts. That's probably actually probably his favorite thing. That might be the reason he employs JR is just to get him to tell Bill Watts stories.
00:04:21
Speaker
As far as living up to the hype, yeah, I think it's lived up to all the hype. I don't know if all of the people who have become stars in the first year were people we would have predicted becoming stars of the show.
00:04:37
Speaker
Um, I think there's other elements of, of dynamite and things that we would still like to see developed over the coming years. But I, if it's any indication and kind of fuck what we think to a certain extent, because just a few months into dynamite TNT decided to up their deal with them.
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's phenomenal. And I mean, it's it's you know, it's listeners of our podcast or just last week's episode probably know I know I was really burnt out of the the weekly grind of WWE. I thought it was watching. It was a chore. And I'm not going to lie. I had high expectations for dynamite. But part of me said, can an American company actually do a weekly show that I actually want to see? That's more than one hour.
00:05:25
Speaker
and I am riveted. My dick is just as hard for dynamite now as it was back in October. I think harder in some ways. I think it took them a little bit to get off the ground all the way, and now it's a super fun two hours on a weekly basis. Yeah, it's definitely got that year-long blue chew going.
00:05:50
Speaker
I think that this episode's obviously starting off well if the best way we can describe how we feel towards AEW is just erection references. Yeah. And I'll jump on board with that. I totally think that, in fact, I think I texted Garrett just a couple weeks ago and I said, about his erection.
00:06:09
Speaker
I said, I get really excited when I sit here and think about all the possible storyline arcs that they could do. And I think that's so much of the fun in wrestling, especially because you get older and you're not just viewing it as a show that's just playing out over time, which is like fantasy booking in your head, the futures of a bunch of the different characters on the show.
00:06:31
Speaker
And there's just so many possibilities and so many ways they can go with things. I don't know if you want to single out one person, but I'll say this. I am super excited for the future of Hangman Page. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I think that's the beautiful thing.
00:06:48
Speaker
about this show is that like obviously everyone's always loved fantasy booking any wrestling fan but in modern wrestling you go like well how's Vince gonna fuck this up or or how could they accidentally get something right like I remember when they turned Becky Lynch heel everyone was like whoa whoa don't worry don't worry
00:07:06
Speaker
She'll fix it. She'll fix it. Vince fucked it. She'll fix it. With Daniel Bryan, we're like, no, no, no. He'll take care of it on his own. Whereas honestly, fantasy booking and just that's the way fans think. They're not actively fantasy booking. It's just the way that you would actively fantasy book a Game of Thrones. And it's just I'm so enthralled that like right now at the top of the card, Chris and I were talking about this yesterday.
00:07:30
Speaker
not on record. We are so excited about what could go on with this tag division, what could go at the top of the card. There's just so much opportunity, and I am so confident that even if they do something I never thought of, it's going to be excellent.
00:07:50
Speaker
Oh, sorry. Hangman to me is the what AEW promised us that they paid off on is the idea of promised the prince who was but the booking that was promised, right? The idea that we're going to care about our characters wins and losses are going to matter. And the records, I think, are almost a red herring. The wins and losses mattering is
00:08:11
Speaker
Hangman Page losing his first shot at a major title, that affecting him, him losing matches, but then also being like, I think I have to step out of the elite. Him starting to become an alcoholic, which was interesting, and the spiral of that.
Storytelling & Match Pacing
00:08:25
Speaker
The relationship between him and Kenny, how that evolved, the relationship with him and the Bucks, them winning, all of these things being strung together, and this character over the last year,
00:08:38
Speaker
having this emotional arc that has led us all to be like, Hangman Page is the fucking best. And I want to see him win the title. We're not even at the payoff yet, too. That's the best thing is that the ride already has been great.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And it's kind of like, Chris, I think that I was just kind of fusing a couple of things together that came into really came into focus for me while you were talking, which is like it's kind of like a new Japan booking in that wins and losses matter in terms of like momentum matters, which we know also matters in real sports, right?
00:09:11
Speaker
so there's that thing of like it's not your overall for the year win-loss record but like you get four big wins in a row you get a title shot that's how New Japan does it too you don't you beat Okada once you're at the top of the you're at the top of the card right right and and yet they fuse it with this great American sensational storytelling that is kind of amazing that these these BTE guys especially have really been developing that is this again love of like
00:09:40
Speaker
80s and 90s wrestling but taken to a modern stage and and honestly Maybe they do that in New Japan, but none of us speak fluent Japanese So it doesn't it doesn't seem like their storylines are as deep as this as a general rule but
00:09:56
Speaker
And when it did, it seemed like it was when these guys were involved. Like, I'm sure we'll talk about a certain tag team match at some point during this, which had a lot of, like, the only thing I compare it to was the Young Bucks against the Golden Lovers, where, when we had Kenny and Hangman against the Young Bucks, there's a similar vibe that there was just this really long, beautiful story, plus an in-ring story, and that's the one thing from New Japan that felt the same, but then I'm like, oh wait, oh shit, it's three of the four guys are the same.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head there. I remember when they first started making a thing out of the win-loss record, I remember thinking to myself, well when fans were screaming they wanted wins and losses to matter, I was almost worried that they took that too literally.
00:10:45
Speaker
And I was worried that that was going to be a thing like the thing that they focused on where I'm like, well, there's no possible way you can book it. And so that like it's not like sports where you see a team kick ass and it reflects in their record because they're, you know, 20 games above 500. Like AEW doesn't have that luxury. But what they have done is they've made it that there is no wasted momentum either way where, like you said.
00:11:10
Speaker
A few losses put you into a title picture. A few wins put you into a title picture. A few losses put you on a storyline arc about you overcoming that adversity. And I think the whole thing that they're doing right now with Joey Janela and Sunny Kiss, they're taking that and turning it into something. So like I said, no wasted momentum. The Sean Spears stuff is another example of that.
00:11:36
Speaker
Yes, Sean Spears doesn't need to be the Baltimore Orioles. There is no Baltimore Orioles here. Everybody can redeem themselves within the context of a year. They also have a lot of different divisions now.
00:11:51
Speaker
Few titles that obviously the women's title the men's heavyweight TV title or sorry TNT title and then the tag team title there's I feel like that's another great thing is that there's the right balance of titles that That you can get too many titles too soon. It seems like it's for a two-hour weekly show this feels like the right amount of titles I Agree
00:12:18
Speaker
I will say part of the other thing too that I think has paid off is I think one of the things that's almost surprising though is all of us were at All In together and All In was such a momentous evening. You talk about dicks being hard.
00:12:33
Speaker
It's never gone away. I mean, 10,000 people cried in an arena that night. Like, it was an amazing experience. And it's been interesting that I do think that AEW, particularly for the big events, has been able to live up to that. We were at Double or Nothing. It was incredible. You guys were both at Revolution, which sounded from the way you guys talked about it to be pretty incredible too.
00:12:59
Speaker
it's kind of amazing that they've been able to sort of maintain that because I think that was my biggest concern was that had we peaked on a certain level in 2018 before we even got to AEW and the answer is not really. Yeah I was wondering about that myself like
00:13:16
Speaker
Is every pay-per-view gonna be able to feel as big as the last one they've done? I went into revolution with pretty low expectations, and it ended up blowing me away. Well, and full gear too, right? Full gear was this... On paper, it was like, before it happened, it was like, okay, you got this match with Omega and Moxley that we thought we were already gonna get in Chicago.
00:13:42
Speaker
We got a great Cody Jericho. Yeah, but it was kind of like I don't know Matt But it was such such a great card and I think being quarterly and only doing four a year is a big part of that And I love this cadence that they can they can do big dynamite shows in the midpoint, but they really Make it special for that for the once every three months that they put on a you know You're gonna get your $50 worth
Pay-Per-View Strategy & Impact
00:14:07
Speaker
Well, we're so used to watching one pay-per-view a month where we're still waiting to get AEW's version of Backlash. Like, we want that shitty just... No, we don't want it, but we're expecting to get it at some point. Yeah. Well, part of it is that they haven't repeated a major match yet.
00:14:27
Speaker
You know, they haven't done the thing. And one of the things I think has hurt WWE over the last decades. On pay per view, yeah. Yeah, they've done matches a few times. But, you know, the thing where a paper- The three match formula? Right, the three match formula, exactly. And I think that's something that's really hurt. Because WWE, particularly, I think, in the 10s, in the teens, got very deeply into, like, it was always a formula. Like, it wasn't like, oh, sometimes we do rematches. It was like forever and ever. This is always true.
00:14:56
Speaker
And I think breaking out of that has been really nice that the that means that the big match that they have is more meaningful because you know, it's going to be definitive to an extent definitive, at least in the moment. Right. Not again, not that these guys are never going to touch again. But for the moment, like that big match is the big match. Yes, we're not happy.
00:15:16
Speaker
go ahead Garrett. Oh I was gonna say we're not having to do that like Shinsuke Nakamura versus AJ Styles for the first time in WWE where we're like oh this one's gonna suck but by the third time you better believe it's gonna be okay. Bax and I were there for the dick kick match which was uh that was something we were there in the second or the third I don't I don't think that was the second yeah.
00:15:37
Speaker
Well, and I think the other thing is then you can you can go back to matches when you leave a little bit more air. Like obviously look at Kenny and Okada. People weren't like, oh, God, here come these guys again. No, they put them months apart for the most part. And again, like like Moxley Omega. I got to assume we're going to get that match again and I'm going to be jazzed as all fuck for it.
00:16:00
Speaker
You know, Hangman versus Jericho. I think they will do a like that match was kind of meh at all out. But and I have to assume that we're going to get Cody versus MJF. Oh, yeah, that storyline has to come full circle still. I agree with you guys, I think there's something that's going to be what's the what's the old adage and entertainment always leave them wanting more, right? Yeah, you're supposed to watch something and it's supposed to be a fleeting feeling.
00:16:31
Speaker
Like that this match may not happen again for a while.
00:16:36
Speaker
Yeah, and it's a pretty impressive thing to consider. Again, they've I've paid them $200 in pay-per-view money. Yeah. Like that's a lot. But worth every penny. It's been worth every penny. And again, across the divisions, too, like it's oh, wait, by the way, Lucha Brothers versus Young Bucks, they have done that match twice on pay-per-view. But one was a ladder match and those guys are awesome. And Escalera de la Muerte.
00:17:06
Speaker
Fair enough. But again, the tag matches are all very different. Even with the women's division, where they really only have four or five women they trust to put on a pay-per-view card, yet even there, they've basically been able to keep it pretty mixed up and have some pretty big matches on Dynamite, too. So it's not like, oh god, Nyla and Riho can't touch because we got to save for the pay-per-view. They're like, fuck it, no.
00:17:33
Speaker
they wrestled at one pay-per-view now we're going to put them on where they wrestled at the first dynamite which is essentially a paper you know close enough to pay-per-view and like you can you can go back to it i also think there's something to be said about
00:17:48
Speaker
and I know this is only true for a cup like for one of WWE show but you know Raw's three fucking hours two hours is the perfect amount of time for a nice deep wrestling show and I think what the other thing you don't get upset about is
00:18:06
Speaker
they don't have to put everybody on the roster on the show every week. It's okay if you go a week or two without seeing somebody and it makes it special when they are there again. It's like WWE's theory with Lesnar, which the champ shouldn't have to be there every week. Well, I agree, but that's almost taking it to the extreme with what they do. It's nice when you don't see, I don't know, give me an example of some, it's nice when you don't see Jungle Boy.
00:18:31
Speaker
every week, but then you see him every couple weeks. Wearing a Jungle Boy shirt I just showed on.
00:18:37
Speaker
Well, and it's also it's it's it's also weird when your champ is the only guy that doesn't show up every week, right? Whereas here between even just the guys in the elite right and You rarely see them two weeks in a row, right? You know Cody maybe a few times that the TV title thing he's doing but for the most part you don't you don't see them every week you see him generally about every other week at least in ring and
00:19:05
Speaker
They are, for as big of a roster as they have, they are giving everybody the amount of time that they deserve. Although I would probably argue they should give more time to Orange Cassidy, but you know, I'll live with it.
00:19:18
Speaker
Here's the problem. I think Orange Cassidy needs his own television show. Like they just need like a half hour after Dynamite.
Critiques & Character Decisions
00:19:24
Speaker
That's the Orange Cassidy show. I think we'd all watch that. I would love to see him as a talk show host, like at least for as a skit at some point where he's trying to host people.
00:19:37
Speaker
I'd be into it. Like the orange pit. There's no pit in orange. The orchard. That's the joke. That's the joke. But no, I think- By the way, that just made me think of, you then use that just to set up a program with him and MJF and how fucking money would that be? See, I can't stop myself from fantasy booking even in the middle of a fucking live recording that we're doing right now.
00:20:07
Speaker
MJF versus Orange Cassidy would be absolute fire. Well, Garrett and I have already been fantasy booking Orange Cassidy's heel turn for months. Ooh.
00:20:17
Speaker
And how dramatic it's going to be when he super kicks Chuck and Trent in the shin. And slaps that thigh. I hope it's him and Chuck turn on Trent because I'd love to see Chuckie as a heel. And as Arch Cassidy's heel valet. Yes. Yes. They could be the new best friends.
00:20:39
Speaker
So, if we were being fair, we're talking about AEW year one, what are some areas that have either not lived up expectations or disappointed you? Like, where are you hearing the majority of complaints about the first year of AEW? Well, I think there's one thing that was a consistent discussion point for the first few months that I think
00:21:04
Speaker
I'm interested to see how everyone feels about it now is the idea that they weren't pushing the elite hard enough, that they were assuming that everyone knew that Cody, Kenny, and the Bucks were who they were, and they weren't establishing them as stars.
00:21:19
Speaker
they sort of did course correct on that. And, but to an extent, I'm not even sure if it was a course correction. I think there was an aspect where they were like, we're going to let some build up some other people. And then we're going to kind of turn it up. I don't, I don't know what the, if the plan was again, whether it was a plan at the beginning all the way through, but I do think they've done a better job of booking those guys as at the level they deserve, um, and, and up to their hype in the second part of in, in the new year in 2020.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think I agree with that. I think they did a really good job in launching a new television show. They established Darby Allen right away, and he became a fan favorite. I think they did so much, and I think you're right, that's the one part where they slipped on a banana peel.
00:22:08
Speaker
I think making Jericho the first champion in retrospect was very clearly the correct decision. I wouldn't argue with that. But it does seem like the fact that all of the elite guys seemingly lost all of their early feuds and outside of Cody, a lot of them didn't like I do feel like
00:22:25
Speaker
Again, if that's the biggest mistake they made, that's not a huge mistake.
Balancing Stars & New Talent
00:22:29
Speaker
But I do think that they could ask, like, if you look at Kenny Omega, and you look at the matches he's had on Dynamite, and who he's been going against, and you're saying this guy is legitimately, arguably, the best wrestler in the world, and this is how they spent a year of him on TV,
00:22:48
Speaker
It's a little underwhelming. He was definitely the one I was most underwhelmed with. But what was it with Derek was it at all out where everybody was basically there to just see Kenny win a match. Right. And it just everybody felt so deflated to watch him lose. And that kind of felt like a lot of the first bit of Kenny Omega's career here. He didn't seem as cool as he was in New Japan. Right.
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah, I completely agree with you guys. In fact, that was one of my first early criticisms was you had taken all this momentum that you had been building on the independent and the new Japan scene for the last, what, two, three years prior to that, and you helped build an entire company around that plus Chris Jericho.
00:23:32
Speaker
And so the Jericho outcome, like you said, made perfect sense. It was just interesting to see like all these. You know how many fans in attendance at these shows are there to see the Bucks and to see Kenny and to see Hangman and see Cody. And it was really interesting. Go back to all.
00:23:52
Speaker
in and remember everyone's I maybe maybe you guys disagree but I remember so many people having the discussion like man it would have seemed very arrogant and and and boisterous but Cody Cody absolutely could have gone on last and nobody would have complained if that had been how the show ended and it almost seems like Cody's nature of wanting to give back and do jobs for guys
00:24:15
Speaker
permeated that entire group the first year where they were just like, we're gonna use our star power to get all these people over, but the whole time I was sitting there wearing is, what about the people who are seeing you guys for the first time? You don't have to convince me that the Lucha Brothers kick ass, but the people who have not been watching wrestling for a decade or whatever since, maybe even since WCW closed, how do you convince them that the young bucks
00:24:41
Speaker
are everything that they've been hyped up to be how do you convince everyone that this this figure Kenny Omega coming over from Japan putting on these epic matches how does he meet that hype and I guess it I don't know that they met that expectation but I also get it I also think
00:25:00
Speaker
there was this emphasis at the beginning, and I think still is in some online circles in the conversation about, well, if they're not gigantic, if AEW doesn't beat WWE someday, it's a failure. On the other hand, if you can get ratings that are good enough for TNT to give you a contract that you're profitable, and you can then use that money to
00:25:27
Speaker
maintain a business and make the art that you want to make. Who cares if you expand your business? Who cares if it becomes as big as WWE? As long as there's enough money in the pot to keep it going, make the art that you want to make and just sort of let the chips fall where they may. Tony Khan is not a poor man.
00:25:49
Speaker
I'm pretty sure his dad gave him enough money and said, Tony, you can have this. Please don't ask me for like money every year. And Tony's like, I got this. But like, if that's the case, then they can run this thing forever and they may as well just make the art they
Title Importance & Demographic Appeal
00:26:04
Speaker
want to make. I think there is an aspect of our conversation in wrestling that has normalized
00:26:09
Speaker
the like the greed of WWE as like well of course everyone has to be super fucking greedy why they have to be super greedy why can't they just make the art they want to make and as long as enough people are willing to buy it that it's sustainable cool
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think just the one counter argument is that putting everybody else over is also not necessarily a move that you do to make the art you want to make, right? Like it's I just don't I get what you're saying and I agree with it. I just don't know that there's that causation there because I think the other thing is titles for what it's worth are a part of the storytelling of wrestling. It is part of the story. And early on, you have to establish titles. And I think that they're course correcting now with the TNT title with Cody.
00:26:53
Speaker
But, you know, and Jericho was absolutely the right decision, but I don't know. I mean, SCU over the Young Bucks is the first tag champs. I love SCU. I love them. But that's not establishing the title as much as if you put them in the box. And Rio, as the first women's champion, I think was a catastrophic failure. I think that that was absolutely the wrong person. It was pretty clear pretty quickly on that Nyla was the breakout star there. Britt Baker had the potential.
00:27:20
Speaker
And Riho, I just don't understand at all why you put her as the first woman's champion. It seems like mind-boggling to me. And then I also have to say, in terms of current stuff, and I know COVID's part of it, Moxley's title reign has been really underwhelming. He was so cool and so hot. And I know that COVID's had an impact, and his opponents haven't been great. But again, it's still just past the first year now. You got to keep that title strong.
00:27:49
Speaker
Why the fuck aren't MJF or Kenny or Hangman? You know, they have all these really interesting options they could be doing at the top of the card with Moxley. It'd be amazing. Why the fuck are they going to Brian Cage and Luke Harper and and fucking Jack Swagger? Let me let me find the middle ground on this debate that we're having, because I think we're doing a lot of compare and contrast with how WWE is handling things. Everything you just said about Moxley, I would also say about Drew McIntyre.
00:28:19
Speaker
I think not having a live crowd there really does affect how you perceive a champion and how you perceive the top of the card. But what I will also say is if you keep in touch with any of the stats coming out on the demographics,
00:28:34
Speaker
AEW is dominating the 20 to 40 year old range. 18 to 45. 18 to 45. They're dominating. Yeah. The straight up argument to make here in support of everything AEW has done up to this point is they are playing the long game.
00:28:52
Speaker
It's like a team that's rebuilding. You have to understand there are concessions you're going to have to make to make the thing work in the long run. And I think, comparatively, if you look at what WWE is doing, WWE's long game is the network and reliving moments from aging stars. It's like every time they get backed into a corner, they bring somebody back from back in the day.
00:29:15
Speaker
and yeah and their demo information what their average age is like 60 of the average person that watches even NXT which I remember being surprised by I was like well NXT is probably where the young people know even NXT is is over 50 generally everybody's dads love Adam Cole
00:29:33
Speaker
Bay Bay, yeah. I just think that's worth noting is that I think sometimes, like the expression goes, to make an omelet, you gotta break a couple legs. And maybe they felt like the Bucks and Cody and Kenny could sustain some short-term damage because they know that down the road, they can A, get themselves over again to just the same level. And going back to what we said a little while ago, we're hungry.
Challenges & Surprises in AEW's First Year
00:30:01
Speaker
for more Moxley and Omega someday. We're hungry for Cody MJF and they don't have to give it to us right now. Yeah, that's fair. When I also think again, just to go back to the bucks, right? Again, in terms of like great art, if they win the titles first thing, I don't know if it works when they're trying to get the belts from Kenny and Hangman to the same level. For sure. For sure.
00:30:29
Speaker
And we can't touch anything with that match because that match is perfect. And I think in a twisted backwards way that we never would have expected, I actually think Cody's the perfect person to hold that TNT title to start it because there's that general assumption that Cody should be in the main event, right? That Cody should be in the world title picture. I don't think that that was a mistake in booking. I think they specifically knew when they had MJF cost him that they were eventually gonna have a secondary title that they also had to establish.
00:31:00
Speaker
And hopefully whoever he hands that off to in that mid card, whether it's Jungle Boy or MJF or... Here's another example of a guy they could have run with because he was super over. Luchasaurus. Early on there was very few people more over than Luchasaurus on that roster.
00:31:16
Speaker
Well, that kind of brings up another one of my, again, minor, minor critiques is they haven't done great with the big men, right? They actually have now established quite a nice roster of big guys. And it just seems like they're kind of doing the old Hogan era monster of the month thing. If when you look at who Moxley's been beating and like although that Luchasaurus against what's his name, that MJF's muscle.
00:31:40
Speaker
Wardlow that that lumberjack match was pretty sweet and they and I think they need to be do more Hoss fights like that And that's how you get Luchasaurus hot again That's how you know you get Brian cage to just be something that you're actually looking forward to Like on a weekly basis is that I think they could do a better job than feeding the monsters to Moxley and Cody and
00:32:04
Speaker
They kind of keep running the same playbook with the monsters. I think that's been one of the disappointing, slightly disappointing things. There's been times where the show has felt repetitive where they've been like, yeah, maybe we don't need the Dark Order and Brandy's group at the same time. Maybe we don't need three different monsters like Wardlow, Brodie Lee and like Lance Archer squashing people on the same episode of Dynamite.
00:32:25
Speaker
Well, and it is the Hogan playbook, too. It's not even a new playbook. Although I will say that that does bring up that we did totally botch guys. Last week when we were talking cinematic wrestling, we completely forgot to talk about the cinematic wrestling of Lance Archer squashing random jobbers in Darby Allen's backyard.
00:32:46
Speaker
Amazing that vignette was amazing such such good shit. I wanted to go to that show personally. Oh, yeah I just want to hang out at Darby Allen's house if this is the type of thing that happens there during a fucking pandemic So Jake Robert shows up with it, you know, and just Lance Archer starts fucking throwing people out of rings. Oh
00:33:05
Speaker
So this is more of a philosophical question, but this is something that stuck with me for years, and I know this isn't the best person to bring up in relation to it, but I remember watching a shoot interview years back with Cornett, where he was saying that when he was running OVW for WWE, he said, we were working with the Leviathan, who was Dave Batista, and he said, as we were building him up, we knew that it was main event or bust for him, because
00:33:33
Speaker
We were building they said they were building him as a future WrestleMania opponent for the Undertaker Is that what it's generally like for all big guys though? And is that why there's usually a logjam like how do you how do you book like Lance Archer mid card? How do you book Brian cage mid card looking the way that they do you can only have?
00:33:52
Speaker
so many big guys cluttering your roster before you start like just visually saying well why aren't all of those guys the main event picture like how do you make room for anyone smaller and then when that becomes the mid card now Joey Janela is just getting killed by those guys every week
00:34:09
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, that's very kind of Vincism. I mean, like Luchasaurus has kind of done fine as a mid Carter the entire time. You know, the big show basically ended up making a career out of being a mid Carter. And yes, he became a monster of the month for main eventers many, many times in his career. But I don't know. I kind of fundamentally disagree with that that logic. If you can have good matches. Who gives a shit?
00:34:37
Speaker
But have you ever seen a promotion successfully execute that? I mean, I think that the career of test speaks for itself. There's room for monsters in the midcard.
00:34:51
Speaker
So, hey, but before we go into our special surprise for today, I got another general question for you guys. Let's do a whip around. What is the single thing that has surprised you most in a good way about the first year of AW? What are you surprised that have how much you've loved?
00:35:11
Speaker
I would say it's the response to Orange Cassidy's gimmick, because I really felt like there was going to be a lot of pushback from fans, from Jim Ross, from people there, and that they were going to basically sink that ship because it just didn't mesh well. And here we are, as of this recording, Cassidy's about to get a match with Chris Jericho.
00:35:37
Speaker
Imagine if I told you that six months ago. Well, and people got it like right away too. That's the thing I was surprised I too. Like not only did they get, they got the whole orange Cassidy thing immediately. Right. What about you, Chris? I think
00:35:53
Speaker
I think it's that my, when my expectations have been high, they've been met. I think that's a really, really difficult thing to do consistently. But generally speaking, when my expectations have been, I think I said it to you right before the tag magic revolution. I said, man.
00:36:10
Speaker
I don't know. I'm really worried. I feel like this is going to be incredible, but I'm worried I'm building it up too much in my head. And you're like, don't worry about it. It's going to be great. And then of course, it's maybe the greatest tag team match of all time. And it's stuff like that where it's like, I don't know if this can be as good as I'm imagining it. And they do tend to pull it off. And that just as a trend has been
00:36:31
Speaker
really, really great. That to me is something that I think is why we have trust in these guys and why we're committed to AEW. Sounds good. What about you, Garrett?
00:36:44
Speaker
Well, to bring it back to Chuck Taylor, I'm a huge fan of Best Friends, and I didn't really ever see them as somebody who was gonna have a serious run in like a title picture. And, I mean, tonight, is it tonight they're on Fighter Fest? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. They were recording this on Canada Day, yeah. Yeah, so they are actually going up against Hangman and Kenny, and just getting to see them have a big spot like that, if we're gonna talk about getting Dick's heart again, there's one.
00:37:14
Speaker
Yeah, mine's never gotten soft, but I gotta say for mine, and this was, it's not now, but in the pre-COVID era, I think that Dark was my single favorite hour of wrestling programming on a weekly basis. I fucking love AEW Dark on YouTube.
00:37:32
Speaker
It was, again, now it's dog shit. But when they were doing the arena shows with the live crowds, it basically seemed like they had a 30-minute match to close out every actual live audience. So they treated it like a real main event. There were several 30-minute Kenny Omega matches. There's just a lot of really great shit. If you look at the last match on Dark, which would be the last match, that would be the go-home match.
00:37:57
Speaker
You know, for the people in the arena, it was so freaking good. And I can't wait until they're in arenas again and we start getting an hour of dark. That's just going to be fucking amazing. And we're going to get random 25 minute Trent Beretta matches. Yes.
00:38:13
Speaker
That Kenny Omega Joey Janela match was a lot of fucking fun. Oh, yeah. We just watched that again last night, actually. There was one, too. It was LAX versus Hybrid 2 versus Best Friends versus Private Party, which was just a fucking banger. And they just given it away on YouTube. It was delightful. Once again, just people like that giving them the time to do what they do. It's incredible that they were doing it.
00:38:41
Speaker
There's probably some lost revenue there. They're just giving away these free matches on YouTube. That's part of the new TNT contract though, right? Is that they're going to start doing another one hour show on Turner. So I'm wondering, I thought it was supposed to already start. I'm wondering if they know jobber matches aren't going to cut it and then maybe they're waiting. But I'm pretty sure that was part of the new Turner deal when they re-upped with TNT.
00:39:06
Speaker
Are they gonna do something cool like on Saturday night? I don't know. I mean, are they gonna run it during the, I mean, it's hard to do another during the week show on TNT if your primary show's on a Wednesday. Like, where do you throw that about the weekend? Well, maybe, yeah, they just put it like Saturday night. It's always got a Joey Janela lights out match. It's adult audiences only. They just keep it cold and dark. Just call it dark. And it's fucking dark.
00:39:32
Speaker
I was gonna go, I was gonna go the opposite. Saturday Morning Children's Show hosted by Orange Cassidy. And Luchasaurus. And Luchasaurus. And Luchasaurus. Stick around, watch this match, or whatever. I'd be into it. Look, some of us are trying to brainwash two-year-olds into loving wrestling, okay? We need every bit we can get.
Game Show Segment: AEW Decisions
00:39:52
Speaker
All right, well, when we put this little shindig together, we thought of something a little bit special. So we brought our producer, the Kent Man, in to help us out. There's just so much to cover with year one of AEW that we needed a little structure to get through all of the different topics to really touch on everything. So Kent, why don't you come aboard and tell us what we're about to get into. Thanks, Fax. Just to check in, has Fax so far talked at all about how hard his dick is?
00:40:22
Speaker
Check like we've all gone around. We're all talking about how hard he's mentioned it. Okay. Just want to make sure it's an official Best there ever was recording has he also called something funky fresh or something to that effect use the word funky So what I've got here
00:40:45
Speaker
for those listening at home. It's just a real funky list of topics and questions here. And I'm gonna propose them. And we're gonna do this by sort of teams, podcast teams. So it's gonna be the predetermined boys and then the best there ever was boys. I'm gonna give the question or topic. None of us are men. Yeah, the good boys and the hurting jerks. The men.
00:41:12
Speaker
The good boys versus the curtain jerks. The good boys versus the curtain jerks. And each side will have 60 seconds to give their take on the question or topic. 60 seconds and that's it. They can finish their thought, but then they're getting cut off. And we're just going to go through this list and well, we're going to see how this goes.
00:41:34
Speaker
So being that I am the curtain jerks producer, I am going to give my jerks the sort of coin toss. Would you like to go second or first for this first question? And then we'll alternate. We'll go second. Yeah, I think like baseball. Yeah, that's that. Home team gets the bottom of the inning. That's right. OK, so predetermined boys, you guys are up first for 60 seconds. I'm going to do a screen share of this.
00:42:05
Speaker
I will point out all of these questions have been vetted by an actual professor. You guys can see this? Yes. Terrific. Okay. So, the first question and the clock will start... Wait, wait. For the listeners at home, can I just say it's just a really short, pornographic clip that Ken's gonna have on loop that we know wouldn't one minute's up. But it's a minute. It's a minute long. It's exactly a minute. Right. You guys know what meat spin is? It's like the actual clip from that, not just the gift.
00:42:35
Speaker
Alright. So, pre-determined boys, you're up first. I will say the question, and then the clock will begin. So. Garrett, do you want to go talk first for me? Well, I think we're teaming this. Well, I understand that, but I'm saying who wants to get first word. Well, let's hear what the question is, please. The first word, meaning one of you is going to say the first word, the other is going to say the second, and then the third and fourth. I feel like you guys are going to take 50 of the 60 seconds to figure out who's speaking.
00:43:01
Speaker
Well, not now. Time's up. All right. I'm ready. You boys ready? Okay. Yep. Here we go. Was Chris Jericho's AEW world title reign too long, too short, or just right? Go.
00:43:20
Speaker
I definitely feel like Chris Jericho's title reign was just right. I think we live in a different era. I think this doesn't get spoken about enough. It's hard with the news cycle being what it is today. Pro wrestling is deeply affected by that. And a week between shows is an eternity. And I think that in today's era of wrestling, Jericho's title reign was appropriate. I think if it had gone any longer, you would have started to wonder who he was going to lose it to.
00:43:51
Speaker
We still have 25 seconds, so I'm going to chime in here and let you know I agree with everything that Derek said. That sounded good to me. OK. With 17 seconds left, pretty good. Pretty good. All right. Curtain jerks, are you ready? Born ready. Go.
00:44:10
Speaker
So, I mean, I can see your point. I would argue too short. I think I would argue too short. I think that there's still a lot of main event guys that could take away that title. I think there's still a lot of top of the card matches that they could have. Again, as I said earlier, I'm not super thrilled with what they've done with Moxley's champion. I probably would not have had the Moxley match. I think when you put him in a match with Moxley, Moxley has to win that. But I think they could have probably gone another pay-per-view or two before they got to Moxley.
00:44:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think just a little short. I think there was like one more big match in that title reign. Again, I want to say like he needed to hold the belt for like two years, but I think there was a little bit more juice in the orange, so to speak. All right, both of you- And then Arch Cassidy could have gotten a title shot. Exactly. Both of you guys finishing off with time left on the clock. We'll go to the second topic right now. Curtain jerks, you guys are up first for this one. 60 seconds is on the clock.
00:45:12
Speaker
The question is, would Hangman be better or worse off now if he wasn't in the first title match? Go. Oh, worse. I mean, again, I think we kind of talked about it a little bit. I think he had to lose that match in order to set up his trajectory. If he had just been like, oh, I wish I was as good. No, it's the failure to be what his
00:45:36
Speaker
compatriots had been and that he had the opportunity in his hands and lost it that really drove everything and I think everyone's been in that situation at a point where they've been in a group of friends and a group of talented people and felt like they were the sixth best one in the group and how that pushes people and Drives them is you know part of his story and I think has been a really affecting part of the story
00:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think at the time, I think there was a lot of people that said, you know, by the time the first All Out happened, like, Hangman's not ready for the main event slot. And I think that there was some fair criticism at the time, but retroactively, it's impossible, I think, to look at it and say that that wasn't the right decision to put him in the biggest match possible, have him lose, and start this amazing character arc.
00:46:22
Speaker
All right, good job. Predetermined boys, you ready? The question again is, would Hangman be better or worse off now if he wasn't in the first title match? Go. I agree with them. He'd be worse off. Like we, this has been one of the best character arcs in pro wrestling. This is like Tim Riggins in Friday Night Lights, you know, season one to season six, seeing how his life is going to arc over all this.
00:46:49
Speaker
I'm going to say that I think we're all on the same page here. I think that he would be worse off if he had one. And I think this goes back to what I said earlier about no wasted momentum. You can take a negative experience for a character on a show and turn it into this nice fruitful storyline that we've been getting. And it's I mean, how many possibilities are we sitting here contemplating about
00:47:11
Speaker
where his character could go, where Kenny's character could go, where the elite are going as a group, just based around this one failure back it all out.
Dream Matches & Speculations
00:47:23
Speaker
All right. Going weird, guys. All right, so now we're back to the predetermined boys. You're going first on this one. We're going snake-draft style. Exactly. I like it. Okay. So the question is,
00:47:38
Speaker
What is the year two match you most want to see? What is the year two match you most want to see? Go.
00:47:47
Speaker
I actually didn't know it until we started doing this recording session, but now I'm sitting here filming at the mouth for Orange Cassidy versus MJF. And I think that will be tremendous fucking entertainment every week. That will be good. I'm also very excited for Hangman versus Kenny Omega. Those two going up against each other is, I can only imagine it's gonna be a classic. All right, half the time there.
00:48:17
Speaker
Curtain jerks, are you ready? All right, so I think we win this one, because you guys didn't think the most obvious one possible. And that is, of course, Orange Cassidy versus The Rock, right? The Rock is joining. You heard it here first. The Rock is joining AW.
00:48:34
Speaker
He's gonna, he's gonna go over John Cena and CM Punk to build him up. Then he's gonna go against, you know, The Rock at Revolution 2. It's gonna be fucking kick ass. And it's gonna be a double main event with Hangman versus Cody.
00:48:48
Speaker
which is the only intro elite match that's never happened. When Cody was a shit couple of years ago, Hangman was the only one who stayed on his side. And when Cody eventually forms the four horse people and turns on everyone.
00:49:05
Speaker
And Hangman, and he's like, Hangman, you should be in this group because you're a horse. And Hangman's like, nah, I'm good. And they have a brutal, bloody war. It's going to be incredible. And that'll hurt the most for the cowboy shit guy to not be a horseman. It'd really hurt. All right. Back to the jerks first. So very simple question here.
00:49:30
Speaker
Is AEW ready for Nick Gage? Go.
00:49:46
Speaker
I thought my dick was hard before, but I got like a ball that just got hard or something in addition to, or I just added some girth. Wow. Chris, you're going to have to finish this one. Well, I think if they get that show, if their new TNT show starts at one in the morning on Saturday nights, I think they're ready for Nick Gage. Otherwise, no.
00:50:09
Speaker
You don't see him just squashing Marco Stunt and becoming a monster of the month for Moxley? No. I actually watched a Nick Gage versus Moxley match from about 10 years ago, and it kind of sucked, but I think they were in different places in their careers. I think they'll be better next time. Slightly, slightly different. All right, predetermined fellows, you guys ready? Yep. Is AEW ready for Nick Gage?
00:50:37
Speaker
Absolutely, they're ready for Nick Gage. We have what, how many months do we have to build up to this Blood and Guts match? Derek and I already discussed this. He would have been great to be on Team Moxley. Moxley gets a team of dirtbags, which would include Joey Janela, Nick Gage, whoever else. Maybe we can get fucking schlap off the GCW. Jack Evans, he could be in there.
00:51:01
Speaker
I haven't met a person or promotion that's properly ready for Nick Gage, so I feel like that's a little disingenuous. I know, that's a thing we'll never see. Unfortunately, we will never see Nick Gage in AEW. I mean, the only Nick Gage match I've ever seen live in person ended in seconds because of too deep a cut.
00:51:26
Speaker
Oh, low-life Louie. Low-life Louie, yes. Jim, you're infringing upon our time right now. That's true. Dock him points. Fuck. We'll save that for next time, little hint. I have also seen Marco Stunt versus Nick Gage live. Back to the jerks now first, right?
00:51:48
Speaker
So now we coincidentally got these two questions that are kind of mirror images of each other. So these are going to be the next two questions. So we'll go with this side first. Jerks, you're going first in this. If you could sign anyone to the AEW roster, who would it be?
00:52:11
Speaker
I mean, so we already covered that The Rock's a done deal, so he doesn't count. He watches. So there's so many different ways to go. Chris, what are your thoughts? The one that really strikes me, and it's not particularly creative, but, you know, they did so much, the elite did so much for the career of Flip Gordon that I do think there's an evolution
00:52:36
Speaker
of him becoming a main eventer against those guys that we didn't get to see that I think would be pretty awesome to see. I know he signed a kind of a long term deal with Ring of Honor, so it's going to be a bit. But I do think that would be kind of great. I'd love to see that at some point. I mean, I'm going to I would say that's a great choice, but I got to go with another boring one. I'd say Kota Obushi, right? Get him back in the picture with the elite with Kenny. I mean, if you can get him into the United States, that's just print your own money.
00:53:07
Speaker
All right, predetermined. If you could sign anyone to the AEW roster, who would it be? Derek, do you want to start? Yeah, I think about this all the time. There's a lot of good choices here. I think if you could get Sami Zayn away from WWE and bring him back as El Generico in AEW, I think that that would fill a very specific void in that company.
00:53:34
Speaker
a comedic void and they would get another great wrestler. I think people would go ape shit for that. And I think there's history there with the Bucks and with everybody else. So that's my pick. For me, I have a hard time choosing between these two, but it would go between either Effie or Mance Warner. I think both of those guys are so good on the Indies and given a microphone, especially Mance Warner, having a microphone and AEW, it just seems like the possibilities are endless there.
00:54:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think you guys won that one. I don't know if people are ready for Nick Gage, but we are definitely ready for Effie in AEW, no doubt about it. I agree. I'm close on that. So, predetermined fellows, you guys are up first on this. And this next question is courtesy of our good friend, Tom Fleischer, who helped us out organizing these questions. And this just happened to sort of be a mirror question to the last one. So, predetermined boys.
00:54:31
Speaker
Who would you cut from the roster to make the biggest improvement? Go. This is on you, Garrett. Well, shit, I mean, if I have to pick somebody who's problematic right now, I guess Jimmy Avec? Jesus. Who else, though? I mean, I'm not a huge Jack Swagger fan, but I love when he kisses his wife, so not him.
00:55:05
Speaker
That's just such a very specific quest. That's hard. I think Jimmy Havoc's a good answer for obvious reasons, but I also think I really don't know if they're properly utilizing Marco Stunt. I don't know what Marco Stunt's future is, and I think eventually it's going to get whittled down to Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy. I don't think that the roster would hurt if he suddenly wasn't there tomorrow. That's sad.
00:55:33
Speaker
Alright, curtain jerks. Who would you cut from the AEW roster to make the biggest improvement? The number of more Kip Sabian matches I need to see in my lifetime is zero.
00:55:45
Speaker
That's a good answer. I actually think, and here's the thing, I will say, because I don't want anyone to lose their jobs. So if Kip could simply never wrestle again and just manage Penelope as her like Boy Friday, I think that works great. And that's fine. I just don't need to see him do 15 minutes of high spots leading to nothing.
00:56:10
Speaker
And he is actually pretty good in that role, but I have to say so so if the question does have to be someone on the roster because if I can cut anybody It's it's good old JR. I would I would get rid of him in a New York minute I think Excalibur and Tony Schiavone are fine.
Tag Team Dynamics & Women's Division
00:56:26
Speaker
You can throw in a rotating third Jericho's awesome at it Cody's awesome at it I think that that's a huge improvement quite frankly Okay
00:56:38
Speaker
We're back to the jerks going first, right? Mm-hmm. Curtain jerks, who is your pick if AEW introduced a six-man title? Oh, man, there's so many, I mean, the Jurassic Express would be a potential choice. I think, I mean, SCU, Chris, who you got?
00:57:03
Speaker
I do think that the first champs to establish this, I think it'd be super fun to see the best friends in Orange Cassidy, you know, holding those belts for a bit. Like Orange Cassidy hot tags seem like it'd be a pretty fun thing. I think that'd be a pretty great team as the first champions. And I think them losing the belts would be like instant heat for whoever the next champs were.
00:57:26
Speaker
And if I could book it even more, I'd put them over the hung bucks because I think that that would be a great comedy match, but that would also have stakes. I think that's just like, that's a match I want to see. Yeah, I do too now. All right, predetermined. Who is your pick if AEW introduced a six man title?
00:57:48
Speaker
I had not thought about this until this just came up. So this is actually catching me a little off guard. I think you guys listed a couple of really good options. I think Jurassic Express as far as being homegrown talent and like the last year. But I also think and don't overlook the obvious. I'll play touch on this probably later. But I think Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks holding those those tag titles would be fantastic.
00:58:13
Speaker
Yeah, you already said best friends as well. Best friends in Orange Cassidy. But getting to see Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks go up against them, or like you guys said, Hung Bucks. Man, last time I saw the Hung Bucks was not a huge fan, because I was even mean to Hangman Page. I want a chance to redeem myself. I think you told that story on our podcast, Garrett. I think I did. So if you want to go into the archives and hear Garrett talk about when he was mean to Hangman Page.
00:58:45
Speaker
Okay, predetermined. How would you have booked the first year of the women's division differently? Shit, I probably would have started with Nyla Rose rather than Riho. I think that's a fair... In hindsight, being 2020, I think that's a fair assessment. I also, um... I guess Chris Statlander wasn't there from the beginning, was she? No, she was at it. So, partway through.
00:59:15
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I know that there was a lot of hype around Britt Baker, and I think she's finally found her footing as a heel as opposed to a baby face. But beyond making Nyla the first champion, and I don't know if there's a whole lot else you can do. I mean, Sheeda's been great the last, actually the whole fucking time. So yeah, beyond that, I can't think of anything. All right, curtain jerks.
00:59:44
Speaker
How would you have booked the first year of the women's division differently? Yeah, I think we agree. I think you start with Nyla. Again, I think Reho, as I said earlier, doesn't really work as the first champion. The scrappy underdog as the first champion is just kind of a flawed story. I think since the new division, almost everybody is brand new to American audiences for the most part. I think you start out with strong heels on top. You got Nyla. They should have made Britt Baker a heel at the very beginning.
01:00:13
Speaker
You know, maybe you put awesome Kong and with with Nyla as an advisor. I think there's a lot of great stuff you could have done. Then you can either build up cheetah or reho either one as as that kind of underdog great babyface.
01:00:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's almost like you cut out, if you just cut out the first three months of the division and shortcut to where they got to in February, I think that's what you want. I think we start showing Britt Baker old Chris Jericho promos from 1998 earlier. Because that's been working. Okay, curtain jerks on you. Quite simply, best Cody promo, go.
01:00:56
Speaker
Like I said, I love my brother.
01:01:00
Speaker
I watched this, like the first time I saw this promo when he did the Dustin promo, I watched it like five times in a row. And each time, like goosebumps, I mean, it's one of the most incredible four minutes for a match that when they announced it, I was like, ah, I don't know if that's gonna be great. And it basically sets up one of the most intense live wrestling experiences I've ever seen. But it really starts with this idea of Cody getting across everything
01:01:31
Speaker
Uh, that that match means, I mean, he's been on a run like Cody. It's basically to me, Cody and Mick Foley in 1995 for the best promo runs ever.
01:01:40
Speaker
I mean, except for, I think they'll, if you count as a promo, except for maybe after that match, right? When, when, if you count that as a promo, as somebody, as we covered last week, they got into many, many fights with my brothers and were bloody and beaten, but at the end you still love each other. I mean, I knew it was coming when I rewatched that this week and it still fucking destroyed me. Pre-determined, best Cody promo, go.
01:02:06
Speaker
I mean I think both of those count. It's hard. It's like whatever mood you're in it hits you the right way. I think the promo that he cut on Jericho.
01:02:15
Speaker
drew a lot of attention from people and I think that one is equally powerful especially him tying in the whole millennial thing and Jericho referring to him and his the elite as entitled millennial bitches I thought that whole promo that he cut on him and him being the son of a famous former NHL player I thought that played really well and it got me excited for the Jericho Cody match
01:02:42
Speaker
Cody can do such a good job of making us want to cry. What about just at the end of all in, just him kind of cutting a promo on pro wrestling and saying that we're all part of this?
Breakout Stars & Underrated Talent
01:02:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's another one. I think Cody's really good at rallying the troops. Yeah, there's no wrong choice to this one. They're all good. They're all amazing. As I said, I think it's him and Mick Foley in 95 in terms of greatest promo runs ever.
01:03:13
Speaker
Alright, pre-determined. This is a classic... Who do you got, choice? Breakout Stars, Darby Allen vs MJF. Who do you got?
01:03:25
Speaker
I would actually go Darby Allen on this one. He was a guy that I wasn't expecting to get as over with the crowd as he did. He does incredible stuff in the ring. Not that MJF isn't improving in the ring, but I think Darby Allen just surprised everybody and was with the coffin drop, everything. He's great.
01:03:44
Speaker
I think characters really stick and stand the test of time and I think MJF not enough can be said ever about how he strikes a chord with everybody and he he gets paid to be a professional prick and he's damn good at it and every he's and how many people do you see to this day and age who are this committed to the heel character that they live it 24 seven to where even earlier this week he was he was dunking on Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus on Twitter in ways that
01:04:14
Speaker
Like it's I just I think MJF is going to last a long time Darby Allen's gonna kill himself before Oh Went dark on that one in the ring not in real life really really come on guys Curtain jerks break out stars Darby Allen verse MGF. Who do you got?
01:04:38
Speaker
I mean, I feel like, Chris, we've talked about this, right? Where we're like, MJF from between all in and then double or nothing. In that short a period of time, he went from a guy that did both of our podcasts, and that's how we met each other. And he was spectacular on both of them.
01:04:59
Speaker
He was, but he literally went down every single podcast row just to try to build his star, because anyone's listeners was something, to just months later at Double or Nothing, he's interrupting Brett the fucking Hitman heart, getting more heel heat than anyone, and is instantly goes from somebody that nobody knows to the biggest heel in the company like that in seconds. Yep.
01:05:25
Speaker
Also seriously go in our archives both of our archives and listen to our all-in episodes with empty. They're incredible It was already an asshole back then he spit in my mouth All right jerks you guys ready regrouped yeah, who is the most underrated wrestler on the roster Wow
01:05:49
Speaker
I would probably say Shida in my mind. I think Shida is, it's easy to call her kind of the, the, the workhorse of the women's division, but I don't think she gets enough love for just generally having just consistently, consistently great matches, um, against anybody. Like her, again, her, her match against Britt Baker where Britt breaks the nose kind of her appropriate promos were coming around, but that's what made me feel like, Hey, I actually really liked this match in the ring. And that's kind of a first for Britt Baker match. Yeah.
01:06:18
Speaker
I would also say, I think there's a lot of people, not in this group of people talking right here, but out in the world who just don't understand how amazing Joey Janela is, and I get it. He hasn't always gotten the chance to show everything that he can do, but there's a reason why people fucking love Joey Janela, and I think he's gonna get his due in time. All right, predetermined. The most underrated wrestler on the AEW roster.
01:06:49
Speaker
Chris, you took my... Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, Janela, he is great. He is actually very good in ring. A lot of people look at him as just a deathmatch guy. Honestly, he's only done a handful of deathmatches. If you go back and look at some of the stuff he's done, like with David Starr, don't mention that. Derek, go ahead.
01:07:11
Speaker
Can't bleep that out. Somebody who has really impressed me when he's had singles opportunities, not that he doesn't shine in his tag team matches, I think Trent is a really good fucking wrestler. And anytime they've put him in a singles match, I think it's shown. They've tried to do some of the similar stuff with Scorpio Sky. And I think you could put Scorpio Sky in that same conversation as somebody who, if they were going to split up tag teams, you can tell who would survive very well. And I think Trent
01:07:39
Speaker
would be fine, not that I want to see it happen. I think you could say the same thing for Scorpio's guy. All right. Until Orange Cassidy turns on him. I think you guys are doing a little too good at this. So we're going to speed things up. You're going to get 30 seconds to answer the rest of these. We'll see how this goes. All right. Predetermined. You ready? Yep. Oh, shit. We're first with this. Yep. All right.
01:08:06
Speaker
Worst abandoned gimmick slash angle. Go. Shit was awesome Kong cutting everybody's hair off. Where'd that go? What happened to the sex cult that I grew to know and love in the Dark Order from the first few months? They really pushed them heavy and then really kind of had to realign what they were a few months in with Brodie Lee coming in. That's true. The sex cult just completely disappeared.
01:08:35
Speaker
Nope. Nope. Now they are a formal business. Suits and everything. Like any good sex cult becomes, just sets up an LLC. Curtain Jerks. Worst abandoned gimmick angle. Go. Or a religion. Boom. Remember when Kenny Omega just like was weird for three months on being the elite for no reason?
01:09:01
Speaker
I don't know. That was terrible. And then he was just like, now I hang out with Hangman Page and we win matches again. It's fine. No one needed to see the end of that. Well, yeah. I mean, what about the bunny? Now this might be a gimmick, right? But just she went from Ali, then she's the bunny. Now she's Ali again. We don't know where Ali was while the bunny was out here. I don't know if it's supposed to be a gimmick, but it's dumb. Whatever it is. Now she's hanging out with our gym teacher.
01:09:32
Speaker
Curtain jerks, I have a question I'd like you to answer for me, please. What was the second best tag team match in year one of AEW? The second match? Well, yeah. So I think we all know what the best match is. So I would probably say my second favorite would have been Young Bucks against LAX at, I believe it was Full Gear. I thought that match was fucking amazing. And I think LAX doesn't get enough love for how great their matches have been.
01:10:00
Speaker
I will all toss in the pile Lucha Bros against Hangman and Kenny from the second match they had right before Revolution was pretty fucking banging. I like your choice. All right, predetermined. What was the second best tag team match in year one of AEW?
01:10:16
Speaker
The match that I predicted before the show that would be match of the night at all out was that ladder match between the Lucha Bros and Young Bucks because they had wrestled so many times I think people slept on how good that was gonna be and I just I thought that was fucking fantastic.
01:10:32
Speaker
Yeah, that had some of the craziest spots in it, that the Canadian destroyer off the ladder through the table. Yeah, you can't, honestly, that one is so good that it might even be close. It's pretty close to that Hangman match. No, it's not.
Controversies & Consistent Performers
01:10:46
Speaker
Ooh. All right. We can go two hours on just that. Yeah, this is our last podcast together. That's true. We're gonna have ignorant opinions like that. We're not gonna do this again because every time we try to record together, my food doesn't show up.
01:11:02
Speaker
Derek I'm gonna send you a hello fresh box. You don't have to order out. It'll be there All right, that's fine so predetermined fellas listen Let's let's put all this wrestling stuff aside for just a second
01:11:18
Speaker
I get to see the curtain jerks all the time. I spend a lot of time with them. And I'm coming clean with this on the air. I can bring up a lot of things with them, but I can't bring up everything with them.
01:11:37
Speaker
Right, that makes sense. With you guys, maybe because your distance keeps us apart, it seems a little bit easier for me to open up and ask you the things that are really weighing heavy on my head and my heart. Don't dip the pin in company ink, bro. That's true. I guess that means I can fuck both of you guys and I will do so.
01:12:01
Speaker
Uh, with this, with this question, but this is something that I've been, I've been wanting to ask the jerks for a while. I just haven't figured out the right way to do it. So, um, I will ask you guys. Um, and this means a lot to me. Does a character like Luchasaurus or Orange Cassidy ever win the AW World Championship? Go. I think if they want to sell a whole bunch of action figures, they're going to put that belt on Luchasaurus.
01:12:30
Speaker
Is this truly a pro wrestling revolution if a character like Luchasaurus or Orange Cassidy have no shot at winning the AEW World Championship? And what's the point of this Chris Jericho Orange Cassidy match, if not to put him on a trajectory to be the top dog in that company? What's it all for? Thank you, Le Champion. Jerks, does a character like Luchasaurus or Orange Cassidy ever win the AEW World Championship?
01:12:59
Speaker
No, and I will say this though, it's not to say that Orange Cassidy couldn't win the title. I think if Orange Cassidy ever wins the AEW title, he's kind of fundamentally a different character than what he's been for the first year. I think there's absolutely depth and evolution in that character, but much like Mick Foley with Mankind was a different character when he won the title than when he was just starting out. I just don't see someone who's sort of in that role. Yeah, never's a long time, but I agree.
01:13:30
Speaker
Alright, curtain jerks. In your opinion, how important were the original Fighter Fest and Fight for the Fallen in building AEW?
01:13:39
Speaker
Oh, so I mean, I'll jump in. I mean, I think Fighter Fest, the first Fighter Fest was amazing. If you rewatch it and it really had the structure of what their TV show became, I think giving fans those free shows to build, I think was super important. It set the tone of what a TV show for this could be. It helped establish stars like Darby Allen. I think it was super duper important and retrospectively the absolute right call. Yeah, I think a lot of it got over like what the range of these shows could be, the kinds of things you could see like the hardcore match at the end of Fighter Fest.
01:14:10
Speaker
All right, predetermined. How important were the original Fighter Fest and Fight for the Fallen in building AEW? I completely agree with the jerks. I think early on it really did set the tone for the wide variety that you can expect from the company. And I do remember specifically just being huddled around my laptop watching Fighter Fest and being super excited about what was to come. Yeah, we were just craving content at that point too.
01:14:39
Speaker
All right. Content. We're going to do two more questions. OK. Predetermined boys, you guys are up first. All right. Do Sammy Guevara's controversial comments about Sasha Banks derail his momentum and potentially his AEW career? Oof. A little bit.
01:15:03
Speaker
I think though he is so good in the ring he's going to make people forget what he said. Should we forget what he said? No, but hopefully he can learn from it and do better. I think it's going to take some time. Time heals most wounds and I think that thankfully it was nothing that he actively did. It was more the comments he made and I think that if as long as he's working to repair and he's shown every indication he's going to work to be a better person.
01:15:33
Speaker
All right, jerks, you ready? Same question to you. Go.
01:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't see how there's any way that it doesn't derail him, right? Just he's not going to be on TV for a while. It's going to hurt his momentum. I mean, we'll see. We'll see what happens. I do think he'll be welcome back from what I've heard from people in the roster. It seems like they're all willing, even the females in the roster are OK with him coming back. So it's going to just take some time. It's going to kill. Ultimately, him being a heel. OK, it's going to hurt. They're not going to be called a sex gods anymore, but him being a heel is going to help.
01:16:09
Speaker
Okay, jerks, the final question and then we're gonna do one kind of each every man for himself quick fire round. Okay, who has the most consistently great in-ring performances on dynamite?
01:16:30
Speaker
I mean, I would have said for sure Kenny and Hangman, but watching it back, I mean, I think there's a strong argument made for Moxley. He's really had some really terrific stuff on the Dynamite show. Yeah, I think he's been great. Darby's been really great too. It's hard to argue against Kenny and Hangman too. I mean, they've been amazing.
01:16:57
Speaker
Predetermined, who has the most consistently great in-ring performances on Dynamite? The first two people that come to mind are Darby and Jungle Boy. Mmm. Jungle Boy versus Cody, yeah.
01:17:12
Speaker
I would actually throw best friends in there. I feel like every time I've seen best friends in a tag match on Dynamite, it's been worth watching. And they've been building them very well for months and to the point where, like we said earlier, they're a legitimate threat to the tag titles now because of it. Alright. Aw man, they walked us off. They walked us off with that last win.
01:17:35
Speaker
So, we're gonna do one last question. Each of you will have 20 seconds to answer it, so it's not team-based anymore. Each of you. And the order will be the order that you are appearing in my Zoom boxes. This question is a fill-in-the-blank question.
01:18:01
Speaker
A year ago, I had no idea I'd be this excited to see blank every week. Uh, Luchasaurus. I've never seen a big tatted-up man in a dinosaur mask move like that, and I can't wait to see what comes next. All right, maybe 20 seconds is too long. But, Chris, a year ago, I had no idea I'd be this excited to see blank every week.
01:18:31
Speaker
Our role model, Britt Baker, if you told me, A, that I'd be excited, because I was really not into Britt Baker at the beginning, but if you told me, like, basically, she's going to do 1998 Chris Jericho down to the promos, some of the verbiage, I'd have been like, I don't know if that's going to work. It's amazing. Every time she's on screen, the notes to Tony Schiavone, chef's kiss. She's just missing Ralfus. Her Ralfus is Riva.
01:18:59
Speaker
Well, I meant literally Ralphis. Can we bring Ralphis back? He's probably available. All right, Garrett, a year ago, I had no idea I'd be this excited to see blank every week. Brodie Lee. I really am excited every time he's on screen now. And his match against Moxley, which another guy I didn't, I wasn't super excited about. Yeah, they've both been awesome. I'm terrible at this game.
01:19:31
Speaker
I thought you did fine. Yeah, I thought you did pretty good. Okay, and finishing up, Mr. Facts. A year ago, I had no idea I'd be this excited to see blank every week. I mean, for me, it's Tony Schiavone. This is a guy that was out of wrestling forever, and then a year ago, he's making dick jokes about the 90s and slinging blue chew, because I got to mention that at both ends of this.
01:19:56
Speaker
And he's legit gone back to being the best commentator in wrestling. And I fucking love it. And he's amazing. And he's a JMU grad. So, go duke dogs. Which, it's interesting because it's not, obviously it's been 20 years since Tony's been around, but it's probably been like 30 since he was the best commentator in wrestling. What a time to be alive. And now he has no problem going 30 with Lois because of Bluchu.
01:20:24
Speaker
Not a sponsor. Yeah, not yet. White Claw and Blue Chew are surprisingly not sponsors of this podcast. Not yet. We're working on it. White Claw and Blue Chew have a predeterminedly curtain jerky night. Does everyone in this chat hate Jim Ross on commentary for AEW?
01:20:47
Speaker
I think he's gotten above hate for me. I think he's been better the last few months. But yeah, I mean, I don't really love him. Well, and I will say one thing is if you watch Fighter Fest at the first one and you watch Fight for the Fallen, he is so bad and so didn't even bother learning people's names that he seems better, but I don't like him.
01:21:14
Speaker
Garrett, you know how I feel about Jim Ross. He, though in the last couple months it seems like he has grown to like these characters a little bit better.
01:21:24
Speaker
or at least know who the hell they are. I remember being kind of excited at the start of AEW for the combination of Shivani and Jim Ross, if for no other reason than it was like watching two voices of the attitude era, the late 90s, early 2000s wrestling, working together. Yeah, there's times where you can tell Jim Ross really has lost several steps and he can't keep up with what he once was.
01:21:51
Speaker
He is learning that racism is bad though. So he's like, he's in on that. So that's good. He said that on Twitter. I want to ask everyone, because I don't feel like we've talked about this enough and sort of the open because facts and I, you know, our show is based on like seasons and one of the seasons was like the greatest tag team matches of all time. And at the end of that season, we said, I think Kenny
01:22:17
Speaker
and Kota Bushi against the young Bucks in New Japan in 2018. We think that's the greatest tag team match of all time. We've seen a lot of other great ones, 80s, 90s, whatever. I kind of think Kenny and Hangman against the Bucks is the greatest tag team match of all time. And I want to spend a couple minutes because you guys were fucking there for it.
01:22:41
Speaker
Yeah, it was funny being with Garrett because he came to stay with me for several days in Chicago for that pay-per-view. And I just remember after we saw that show, it was like every half hour he would say, I can't stop thinking about that match. And that continued for days and maybe even weeks afterwards. I don't remember how, and that's the weird thing about when you watch a really good wrestling match, it's hard to remember exactly how you felt
01:23:09
Speaker
Going into it and then sometimes when you come out of it, you're like, oh fuck like you guys said earlier you go into it You're like, I don't really know how this is gonna work and then you just like once it's over You're like, well fucking of course. It was the greatest match of all time. Look who was in it. What the fuck were we thinking?
01:23:25
Speaker
Yeah, like I didn't want to jinx it, but I legitimately went into that match with the the Bucks versus Golden Lovers vibes going in where I'm like, there's this great story. All these guys know each other. I wasn't I watched it at Chris's house with a couple other friends, including friend of the podcast, Tom. But I didn't want to say it out loud, but I was kind of going in going.
01:23:46
Speaker
This could be the greatest tag match of all time. That's definitely not something that's normally on the radar as something that's possible. And I thought it was possible going in for that one. I remember
Legendary Matches & Storytelling
01:23:56
Speaker
being in the arena and Derek asking me right the second it was over, was that the best tag match you've ever seen? And I never want to, you know, it's like walking out of a movie and saying, that's my favorite movie.
01:24:12
Speaker
But yeah, you're right, though. Like, just the rest of that show, every little bit, I was just like, I can't stop thinking about it. And then days later, I can't stop thinking about it.
01:24:23
Speaker
Well, it's like sometimes, you know, you leave the movie theater and, you know, you just saw Hobbs and Shaw or The Lighthouse, and it does land like that, which was one of my favorite movies of the last year as well. But I think part of it is too that the fact that it comes after the Golden Lovers Bucks match, right, I think part of what makes this match maybe the greatest is the way it plays off that match, like,
01:24:49
Speaker
there's nothing more heelish than when the Bucks bust out the golden trigger. And then when Kenny kicks out at one on that, it's like, well, now he has felt the insult and is responding to it. And you're like, whoa. I think I told Garrett that is now my new favorite spot in pro wrestling is the deep into the match, kick out at one that you can only break out so often and the response that it gets.
01:25:15
Speaker
It's like the most it's like the most visceral response as a fan because you get so used to in every match within a couple of minutes. Guys are kicking out like two and three quarters. And so to see a big move get hit and then a guy kick out at one, like, of course, everyone fucking loses their shit.
01:25:32
Speaker
And I think that I remember that night when we were watching on TV, we were in the arena, I definitely left saying, well, one of these two matches is they're 1A and 1B. These are the two grass tag matches ever. But on my most recent view, it really drove it home that I think that this match, the AEW match, is the king because there's so many of those moments. There's the kick out at one, like you said. There's Hangman giving the one-winged angel.
01:25:58
Speaker
that also doesn't finish it that's fucking amazing there's even him doing the the chicken wing which you know we won't talk about who's chicken wing just a chicken wing he loves chicken wings um
01:26:10
Speaker
You know, there's just so many of those great moments that I think I gotta give this the edge. And of course, the end of the match, the fact that the Golden Lovers match ended with this Golden Elite and it was an end. That was pretty much a definitive end of a story. Whereas the end of this match is very different. It leaves it wide the fuck open. Was Kenny about to turn around? Were the Young Bucks about to kick Hangman? Was Hangman about to fucking Larry at Kenny? There's all kinds of stuff. And again,
01:26:41
Speaker
I don't even know where they could go. If you're throwing a recipe together for what makes a really good match suddenly great and suddenly the best of all time, one of the elements that you have to have, like, yeah, you have to have the good entering action and you have to have good storytelling, but there's another element, which is that lingering thought in the back of your head.
01:27:04
Speaker
during a match that there's something else that hasn't happened yet. And I remember during that entire tag match, as it was just building and building and building, in the back of my head the whole time, I'm thinking, who's gonna fuck over who?
01:27:18
Speaker
And that lingering tension of this match as awesome as it's been, they've been deliberately building this tension between Kenny and Hangman. And attention's the only word I can use to describe it, because they haven't even capitalized on it yet, but the way that match ended with him gripping the top rope behind Kenny's back, that still has yet to be paid off on.
01:27:46
Speaker
Well, and I think that that's another just great thing about it's upending the trope of you have two singles guys, they're only put together to turn on each other. And we all know that. We know AEW is better in some ways, but that's not a Vince thing. That's a wrestling thing. That's a forever thing. So like the Golden Lovers match, you could say, yeah, the Golden Lovers probably going over, but anything could happen. I would say,
01:28:10
Speaker
going into revolution, everybody thought the Bucks were winning, right? It was an inevitability. The Bucks, of course, were going to be champions, and Hangman and Kenny have to lose the titles, because that's the easiest way to turn this little descent into just a huge explosion. And then, so it was so surprising when that didn't happen, but in a beautifully crafted way.
01:28:35
Speaker
Hey, so interesting because it's kind of like an emotional like pay like if you having now just recently like this last week watch like a bunch of the Kenny and hangman matches in a row there's a theme to the end of those matches which is generally like hangman like finding something and just going like Ape shit and throwing a couple of buckshots right and he does that at the end of this match right he ends up
01:28:57
Speaker
giving Nick the buckshot outside and then Matt in that, like that's what does it, right? And there's just, every time it's like fucking, it's like Hogan in the eighties, like when he hits that comeback and he's like, I'm going to do it. And you're like, man, I'm fucking into this. And it's got a happy ending, which is unlike the bucks lovers match, which is really honestly kind of quite sad. Like that's sort of the reason why that's affecting is it's sad, but yeah. And that's the story arc, right? Which is that,
01:29:25
Speaker
Whatever happened at all out between Hangman and Jericho, Hangman just didn't have that extra whatever to get the job done. And if I could use a Dragon Ball Z reference, please. Hangman has taken this time with Kenny to figure out how to go Super Saiyan.
01:29:41
Speaker
He's figured out how to take over a match and how to finish it off in place of Kenny. And that's going back to all the things about we were disappointed about with how they handled the Elite in year one. Maybe that's part of the backdrop to Hangman's story is that Kenny Omega came into AEW with ridiculously high expectations about the kind of matches and the kind of wrestler he can be.
01:30:09
Speaker
And to some people, he's not the same guy he was in New Japan. But what's happened is in that time, Hangman is finding himself. And this didn't come up during the PTI segment that we did. I think the obvious twist is not what's going to end up happening. I think Kenny's turning on Hangman.
01:30:35
Speaker
And I think Hangman's going to be the star babyface to come out of this. Because I think all of his motivations are correct. I do think he has been ostracized to a certain extent out of the elite. I think he has been overlooked. I think he is to a certain extent a victim.
01:30:53
Speaker
And I think that's that's that's the nice a nice. Never mind the fact that people miss Kenny the cleaner. People miss to a certain extent seeing the young bucks be heels. I mean, that's where they they made their they they what's the they their teeth came in. What am I trying to say? I had to cut their teeth on.
01:31:11
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Well, the other thing is that going into that match, the guy that's arguably the biggest heel is Matt Jackson, not both bucks, just Matt. Right. And Nick is the one that's trying to play Peacemaker that there is even a chance going into that match. And again, I don't think so. But you're like, I could see the next match being Matt and Kenny versus Nick and Hangman or something like that.
01:31:33
Speaker
because it seemed like each team had one guy that took this ultra seriously and one guy that's like you guys are going too far or I guess it would be Matt and Hangman against Nick and Kenny but it's fucking anything could happen and I agree we don't know where this is going but wherever this is going somebody's ending up with the world title
01:31:52
Speaker
And maybe it's matching. I love it. So this is producer Ken here and I'd like to bring something into the conversation. This is something I'm curious about. So on our show, the best there ever was, our premise is that we do things on a seasonal themed basis and we go over the greatest wrestling matches of all time. Now, as someone who's not necessarily a wrestling fan but knows more than the average person just through the osmosis of working with these fellows,
01:32:20
Speaker
Something I'm curious about, and I'm always concerned with, not just with wrestling, but with any type of media, but we're gonna stick to wrestling here. So obviously AEW is this collection, has this incredible story behind it, and has this great collection of wrestlers putting on these great matches now. And this was going on before with NJPW and all that stuff.
01:32:45
Speaker
so you guys saying the greatest tag team match ever was this AEW tag team match and then we have another one that's coming in that you just said hey here's this other AEW match that happened what a year later was it even a year later that's that's the greatest tag team match ever to ever happen now understanding that you guys are know what you're talking about you've been watching wrestling your whole lives thinking critically about wrestling your whole lives
01:33:12
Speaker
How much does recency bias play into this? Like, I'm sure that these, both these tag team matches were incredible and maybe they could be one and two in the greatest ones ever, but, you know, it just seems like there's so much momentum behind this. And I'm just in our own like programming, I'm always concerned of like, okay, like I get that this stuff is good, but how much does recency bias play into this? And I just like want to play devil's advocate and throw it out to the predetermined guys as well. Like, what do you guys think about that?
01:33:42
Speaker
Let's let them take it first. I actually have a, I didn't think that I would discover my answer here, but I think that we're in a unique position to say that over the last 20 to 30 years, specifically in pro wrestling, tag team wrestling has taken sort of a midcard status position and it's been relegated to that for the longest time. Like you can only achieve a certain level of success.
01:34:06
Speaker
since basically the mid-90s until recently. And that was one of the things they specifically said they wanted to work on in AEW is they wanted to bring tag team wrestling back to the forefront because there was a time period in the 70s and 80s where tag team wrestling was the shit. And it was one of the highlights of the show and we kind of got sick of it for... Segment's not the right word, it was booked in a way that it was unspectacular.
01:34:33
Speaker
And it took TLC and it took gimmick matches to make it exciting again. And I think what we're seeing now is you can literally just go have a straight up tag team match that tells a fantastic story because there's so much there to work with.
01:34:48
Speaker
Yeah I mean I think because these guys are also athletes so I think it's kind of like I think there's actually bias the other direction that I think that that the most recent stuff is so far superior when that just as an overall product it's like what Adam Adavino says that he'd strike out Babe Ruth in three pitches. By the way Adam Adavino 1000% would strike out Babe Ruth in three pitches more than likely.
01:35:10
Speaker
And if Aaron Judge or Eloy Jimenez or anyone like that, who's your guy again? Not Lucas Duda, the young guy on the Mets. Chris, we got... Pete Alonso. Pete Alonso. You put any of those guys back in 1925 Yankees, they would legitimately hit 700 home runs in a year.
01:35:28
Speaker
they are they are all so much better and I think wrestling is the same way that not to say that there's not old stuff that's great but the average quality product is so much better like a random Trent versus Kenny Omega match in 1992 would be
01:35:46
Speaker
It's something that we still talk about now. And it's literally just some random match on Dynamite. So to be exceptional now is so much harder that I think there are things like Flare Steamboat there. Obviously, we have a whole podcast based around it. There's tons of really great shit from yesteryear. But a lot of that, it's so much easier to differentiate great back then. Whereas now, you really, truly are the best of the best of the best.
01:36:13
Speaker
I also do think we are living in a golden age, and I think a lot about when that's going to peak. Because I think there always are peaks, and you never kind of notice it before. We'll talk about New Japan. I do think there's maybe a point which New Japan may have peaked artistically at some point in the last couple of years that may be different now. So it'll be interesting to see. Did you not see that Yano Harumu match?
01:36:42
Speaker
I mean, they're still peeking, baby. Oh, still great. We'll talk more about that. But I do. And at AEW, I mean, I do think there are times when I think I'm not sure I'm ever going to love this quite as much as where we were in 2018, because that was amazing and all in was an incredible moment.
01:37:02
Speaker
So I think about that a lot. But I don't think this is I don't think particularly with that match, I don't think it's recency bias because I do compare that to other great things. And I think you can have the argument that, hey, I think Midnight Express and the Fantasticks or, you know, the four pillars in all Japan, you know, maybe that those matches were a little bit better. I'll take that argument if you want to say that that's you prefer that style. But it's in the conversation. Yeah.
01:37:29
Speaker
Yeah. You know, one can never definitively obviously say what the best of anything is like a hundred percent certainty, but I don't, I think what you can say for certain is you can no longer have a conversation about the greatest tag team match of all time and not bring up this match. It would invalidate the entire discourse.
01:37:45
Speaker
Right. And it's not it's not just with tag team. We were just I was taking that as an example because that's what you were talking about. But just with regards to the other matches as well, you know, and Melters five star and then he adds more stars and all that shit, you know, and it just like and I'm sure there's incredible product that's being put out. I have no doubt about that. You know, that seems to be unanimous that people who are into wrestling and are not some kind of weird
01:38:12
Speaker
Like WWE stan where like they're just this is my fucking team and I don't like this other stuff You know, everyone is on board with that. But you know, it just seems like I don't know. It's just something I'm always kind of curious about where like understanding that yeah, this probably is a golden age of A new golden age of wrestling but just like to have every one of these new matches that's like Oh, no, this is the greatest new match ever Oh, no. Now, this is the greatest match. No, this is so well clean succession. Yeah, I
01:38:40
Speaker
But part of them, too, is it's the same dance partners, too, right? So these things tend to come in series. Like, there was Flair Steamboat. They were both in the height of their powers. They had a bunch of great matches. Those were the greatest matches. The four pillars in AJPW, as Chris mentioned. And now, you know, we have these guys. And Kenny already had Okada, right? They've had probably the textbook answers of the greatest matches of all time. Three of the four or something insane like that. Greatest matches of all time by Meltzer's ratings, if you want to take that as canon.
01:39:10
Speaker
And again, it's a lot of the same people. So these two matches we're talking about, three out of four people are the same, right? And the fourth person that they added for this was another guy that travels with them and has for years. So it really makes sense, these are guys in their physical primes, they're in their storytelling primes. It kind of makes sense that we might not see four guys that have this level of chemistry, this level of athleticism, and this level of storytelling ability all hitting every cylinder at the same moment. We may not see this again for another decade or two.
01:39:37
Speaker
Because I mean think about it. I was gonna say cuz but I think the guys I would compare these guys to are The click basically minus the drugs right, but you look at the click You know and those five guys all had incredible matches, but generally speaking their best matches were against each other Sean and razor everything Nash did was much better against Sean or the other guys well I'd say no no one hears Nash though Nash only really had good matches against click guys
01:40:05
Speaker
Sure, sure. I'm not making anyone Kevin Nash in this story. But I do think there and from a storytelling perspective, those guys cared. And I think there's a lot of comparisons where when you just put all of them together, there is a chemistry that's just something special because those guys think about wrestling that much. They go up and down the road and they think about it in the way that people in the mid 90s were like, this is a golden age, right? Because the NWO and because of all these other things.
01:40:34
Speaker
I was going to say, to Ken's point though, do you think it's easy to live in the moment and say that something that you watched recently is like one of the greatest things you've ever seen? And it's really easy for pro wrestling fans on the whole to move on from things really quickly.
01:40:52
Speaker
And there's stuff from, I remember coming into today's episode, I was thinking about all the things AEW has done, right? And naturally that leads you down the road of all the things that WWE could have done that they chose not to. And I was thinking back to the fact that five years ago, four to five years ago, WWE's midcard was some of the best wrestling that they've had in years. And they proceeded to do nothing with it.
01:41:21
Speaker
I think as far as recency, there's matches from that time period that I guarantee I would have argued with you were fucking great that now I can't even think of one off the top of my head. I don't know if the revolution match is one of those. I don't think it is. I think like you said, there's consistently the same players involved.
01:41:41
Speaker
I think, like anything else, it has to stand the test of time, right? If we're talking about it in five years, then it definitely is. So that's a perfect reading to a question that I was going to ask you guys just from all this. That would prove me right, at least partially. So of all of this stuff, this is AEW year one. What do you think, whether it's a wrestler, a match, a gimmick, a storyline, anything,
01:42:06
Speaker
that people are so hyped about now that, like Derek said, in five years it's gonna fade and no one's gonna talk about it. Or it's gonna be forgotten. But everyone is so hyped on it right now.
01:42:21
Speaker
Hard question, I know. I think it's actually, and this is, if I could throw one more piece of shade or critique at AEW, I think it's a fucking shame that they pulled the trigger on that Omega Moxley hardcore match that they did. Like nobody's fucking talking about it. That was year one, but like nobody's talking about that match anymore.
01:42:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the other thing could be is that with some of the character stuff, depending on how organically that continues to live, like Orange Cassidy, I think we all agree is one of the best things about AEW right now. It does have a shelf life, though. It absolutely has a shelf life. And if they just keep writing it out, it's going to be like, you know, WWE just bringing back all the attitude error guys all the time where it's like, oh, God, you know, so. But I think the actual wrestling and the big heart and story of of stuff.
01:43:17
Speaker
I can't see that not playing well in the future. You don't think there's something going on right now that like a year from now, we'll be like, oh man, why were we so jazzed about that? Yeah, again, I think it could be something like an Orange Cassidy, honestly. I can't see it being like the elite guys. I think that those stories, like I think the Cody Dustin story, I think the elite story with the Bucks and Hangman, I think that stuff I think is going to stand the test of time.
01:43:46
Speaker
I haven't heard from Garrett now. Garrett, what do you think? I had a cat fucking around with me. I missed some stuff. What? Fuck that cat. I mean, all of those Lights Out matches are going to look lame once Nick Gage is here. I'm just waiting for Nick Gage. Well, I do think, though, there's something about... I wonder how Moxley is going to age as a top guy.
01:44:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think there was a lot of energy around him at the beginning. And I wonder if that's going to dissipate over time. I don't know. I mean, maybe it works out, but I think it's possible there is a shelf life for him that is not going to look quite as exciting two years from now.
01:44:36
Speaker
But how much
AEW's Formation & Future
01:44:37
Speaker
of that is tied to the same problem Joey Janela is having, which is that both of them are so tied to the idea of the death match or the hardcore match that once you separate them from that, they lose some of their appeal. I think that's what Moxley is going through right now. He's made so many like in his promos, he's made so many big threats about how he's going to ruin people and drag them through hell and
01:45:06
Speaker
After you throw Kenny through a barbed wire mattress, where do you go from there? It's odd that we're not talking about that.
01:45:20
Speaker
like I think I think unfairly like those guys got pigeonholed as hardcore guys and Tony Khan had made the point that they were not going to become a promotion that had death matches but then very early on that was one of the couple things that they showed their their fans
01:45:55
Speaker
It's actually interesting. One of the things I think that may have played out well for them
01:45:59
Speaker
as much as I was deeply excited to see Blood and Guts live, to be able to see a war games match, essentially war games live was like, I mean, when they announced that, when they realized, when Fax and I realized that that was gonna be a show that we were going to be attending, we literally like almost shed tears. Like my wife walked in the room and she's like, why are you guys emotional? And we're like, we're gonna see war games.
01:46:23
Speaker
We're gonna see war games. You don't understand how important this is to us. We're gonna watch a war games match and it's gonna be live and it's gonna be great. We're gonna see someone turn on a Rhodes in a double cage. But in some ways, I think, I don't know if Blood and Guts could have been as good as Stadium Stampede was. I think Stadium Stampede was incredible and played to their strengths and didn't force them to sort of up the violence level, but force them to up the creativity level in other ways.
01:46:51
Speaker
I don't know. I think that might have been one of the lucky breaks for them in all this.
01:47:04
Speaker
yeah i think it's i think it's a totally a different thing and and i i gotta say that the reason that i feel so good about all of this lasting is that i haven't rewatched virtually any adw uh... you know i watched it in san pete if a couple extra times i probably watched all out and and double or nothing of course all in multiple times but other than that i did i've not rewatched a single episode dynamite until the last week and i gotta say
01:47:30
Speaker
It's all way more rewatchable than I was expecting, and there is way more shit that I liked that I didn't even remember than I expected. Again, will all of it last? Of course not. Are we maybe even overrating their tag division because it's maybe so top-heavy, right? If all of the big tag matches feature either the Young Bucks or the Lucha Brothers, it's pretty easy for every tag match to be fucking amazing.
01:47:55
Speaker
Is really the whole division that good? That's another thing. I think there's a lot of what ifs, but I think generally, I don't think there's any scenario where we look back at the first year of AEW as anything other than a fucking out of the park grand slam. Do you think it dealt a mortal wound to NXT?
01:48:17
Speaker
Well, no, I think that they're not mortally wounded, they're just old, and the fans are gonna die soon. So, again, like... That's the same thing! If they've taken that base.
01:48:32
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to die of natural old age, not AEW dealt injury. That's more what I was saying. I want to ask a question of all three of you, because this whole episode has been dedicated to AEW year one. But we met during the star cast for all in.
01:48:52
Speaker
And technically, all in is not AEW, technically. Technically, it's nothing, right? It's nothing. Right. Well, and Garrett and I frequently talk about the fact that it's wild that you can't even get a DVD or Blu-ray of the damn thing, because it'd be something I would love to have. Me too. ROH doesn't sell it? ROH definitely did sell it. And New Japan had it on New Japan World for a while, and then they took it off at some point. But I mean like a physical copy.
01:49:20
Speaker
No, ROH used to sell the streaming copy. Right. OK, yeah. A stream. A stream, yeah. I understand that we're getting digital now, but there's something about having a physical copy of it. What I was going to ask, that's technically AEW year zero. And we met each other at Starcast. And I was going to ask this question and how relevant it is to this conversation I have yet to figure out, but I want to get your take on it. Is AEW?
01:49:47
Speaker
a foregone conclusion before that show ever actually starts or was it a foregone conclusion only at the at the conclusion of all in so i mean i'm gonna i'll go ahead because i have very strong i think that it was a foregone conclusion well before that show happened i think the second it sold out as quickly as it could i think as soon as cody tweets beltzer
01:50:11
Speaker
I think it's in their head. And then I think the second they sell the seats as quickly as that, they're already having conversations with, if not Tony Khan, they're certainly having very serious conversations with each other about, hey guys, we can really do this. Now, I don't think they thought AEW was going to be as big as it was, but I think they said, hey, Ring of Honor's never sold $10,000.
01:50:33
Speaker
Right. We just sold 10,000. We sold more than the second biggest company has ever sold. And we did it in minutes. So I think they thought, hey, I don't know if we're going to compete with WWE, but we certainly can immediately become the second biggest company in the United States and possibly the world.
01:50:50
Speaker
I do think all in the event ends up erasing the doubt, right? Like I guess if all in the event itself had somehow, I don't know how it would have, but if it somehow had been a disaster.
01:51:05
Speaker
A critical dud, maybe. A critical dud. Yeah, I think there was, I guess, a chance that it didn't work out. Because I think what the story goes is that Tony Khan was it all in and he was showing the TNT executive that event. And the guy from TNT, Kevin Riley, watched it and went like,
01:51:23
Speaker
Well, a lot of these people seem to be very, very excited for this. I guess I'll give this a whirl. So I guess if they fucked it up somehow, there was a chance it didn't work. But I also now looking back, you go like, what were the odds these guys were going to fuck up a wrestling show they booked? Low, very low. Garrett, what are your thoughts? With Tony Khan in the house, like, it just seemed like
01:51:50
Speaker
There was something really special that weekend and it just felt like it was bigger than what even that event was. It felt like it was going to become something else.
01:51:59
Speaker
But do you think that, like, we had such a hard time, like everybody did, getting tickets. Do you think that it was, like Jim said, do you think that it was Cody's tweet that started all of this? Was it the way the tickets sold out immediately? Or was it the event itself that kind of, like, as soon as the event was over, it was like, okay, AEW is definitely a thing? Because that fan, the fans in attendance at all in wanted another show.
01:52:28
Speaker
But they didn't get another show, what they got was a whole fucking promotion. I understand that the show was called Double or Nothing when they did it, but it was a whole promotion.
01:52:40
Speaker
Well, and that's where I think it was Cody's tweet at the latest, quite frankly. Because even when they sold out what I believe was the previous biggest show of Ring of Honor was that Mania weekend, which was Kenny versus Cody. And I think they realized, and even the Japanese audiences were huge for these big matches with these guys, I think they realized Ring of Honor's not selling these seats.
01:53:05
Speaker
These couple of guys are, and we're all in this together. With a YouTube show. With a YouTube show. And I think that things could have gone different. They could have potentially taken over Ring of Honor. They could have taken over, we're going to be the New Japan, New York guys, or America guys. I don't know if it necessarily was specifically going to be AEW with Tony Khan and TNT.
01:53:28
Speaker
until after All In, but I think these guys running the next biggest promotion of WWE in North America, I think that's a done deal by the time the tweet goes out. I will say my favorite thing about the sellout of All In, by the way, was that the official line is it sold out 29 minutes and 13 seconds.
01:53:53
Speaker
And I know that that is not 100% technically true because I purchased faxinized tickets at like 442 or something. Like I have like the screen thing, like somehow someone's cart died somewhere.
01:54:09
Speaker
and two tickets, like slipped out into the ether and they ended up in mine and I bought, I was like in a cab and I was like frantically refreshing and somehow and I was like, I was like, I don't know if these tickets are good, but I, we apparently do have tickets. And I couldn't get it at all. Like again, if there was perfect technology, it would have sold out in 29 seconds, you know, like the things that sell out quicker or just cause the technology's gotten better.
01:54:34
Speaker
I don't know if Garrett and I have made this clear before. The day that they sold out that show, they were actually Ring of Honor was doing a show here in Chicago. Right. And Garrett and I got to go to the show and hear the response.
01:54:46
Speaker
given directly to Cody to that show where they like that's got to be so weird from from Ring of Honor executives position like you're witnessing the birth of a new promotion on your show the day of essentially but again i think if you look at who runs Ring of Honor corporate versus who runs the wrestling i think these are all guys that were like hoping to be a part of it right i think everyone was totally happy because they thought we're all going
01:55:12
Speaker
Right? Because who gives a fuck about Sinclair? Right? They're all like, let's do this other thing. Right. Right. So, gun to your head, you have to give one answer. Best pay-per-view of AEW year one. Ooh. If you can only watch one for the rest of your life. Uh, I... Oh, man. I think I'd have to say the original Double or Nothing. I don't feel great about it, but I think that's what I would go with.
01:55:42
Speaker
think it's full gear I think full gear has the sort of best one-two punch on top in terms of both of like the big matches working and it is hard for me to give up revolution because again revolution has as we said the greatest tag team match of all time so that's easy easy one to pick but I I
01:56:05
Speaker
Well, see, I would take the argument, though, that I think Double or Nothing has the greatest 1-2 punch in terms of quality matches, even though they're not the ones up top. Because I'd put Cody versus Dustin right next to the tag match in terms of an all-time classic. And then they also had Lucha Brothers versus Box, which was great. They had Kenny versus Jericho, which was very, very good.
01:56:31
Speaker
Hangman winning the battle royal, which is one of the most, funnest battle royals you'll ever see. I just think up and down the card, double or nothing, it's just everything was at least really solid. Man, double or nothing. You brought up a match that I'm surprised hadn't been brought up yet, which is that Cody, I guess we talked about it a little bit, but Cody versus Dustin. That is one of the most emotional matches I've ever seen. It just had such a good old school feel to it. Fuck, yeah, I might have to go double or nothing on that.
01:57:02
Speaker
It's interesting watching that match again because it's like if you take out the blood you'd be like this was a pretty good match. But there is something about Dustin really like almost fucking dying. That really takes it up. Oh yeah. Especially when Cody's there to kill the Attitude Era. And he's nearly else's physical brother.
01:57:23
Speaker
And everything about that match over-delivered, right? They started playing on BTE that Cody was gonna go into someone, it was gonna be big, and we're all like, well, last time you said that was Nick Aldis. And yes, we loved that by the time it happened, but we weren't happy when they got announced. And then they announced Dustin, and it's like, I wasn't expecting this, and I'm super into it. Then they did that promo Chris reference, and it's like, holy shit. Then the match happens, it's epic and amazing. And then...
01:57:52
Speaker
possibly if not definitely the greatest post-match promo moment whatever like ever I mean just every bit of it was better than the last and all of it so exceeded expectations and it still works on repeat viewings so good AEW year one MVP go You know what Cody
01:58:21
Speaker
I still think Cody's been the rock. He's cut all the great promos. He's had these great feuds. I think he's the guy that will look back on it and it'll be hard to explain to people how much we all loved Cody.
01:58:39
Speaker
Like, people we watch is like, oh, I mean, I guess Cody's pretty cool. But you're just like, no, no, no, no. Like, when Cody came out at Double or Nothing, Bax turned to me and said, I think Cody's my actual hero. Like, as a person. Yes. I said, yeah, go ahead. And I said, I think I agree. I think I'm with you. I think Cody is a person who inspires me.
01:59:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I can't. Somewhere all of our significant others are rolling their eyes at this conversation right now. That's why I told my wife how important Cody is to me. And I've told her that she will enjoy my next tattoo. I just flat up told my wife I was going to leave her for Cody. Wow. Yeah.
01:59:29
Speaker
I just found out there's a relationship that's about to end. And two, there's only been one order for those temporary tattoos for Cody's thing. And it's apparently going to Chris. Yeah. So so in my MVP, I got to say, by the way, one guy we didn't talk about, I don't think he's my MVP is Pac. I mean, he gets lost in the shuffle. He had some really fucking hilariously good matches.
01:59:52
Speaker
But I'm going to be your typical sports writer type because we are podcast journalists. And I got to go, well, the V stands for valuable. And the most valuable guy I think without a shadow of a doubt is Jericho. I think he establishes the title and those promos the first few weeks. I remember talking to my one of my brothers who has not watched wrestling on a routine basis in like 15 years.
02:00:17
Speaker
and he literally texted me, I just saw this Jericho promo and it was the, welcome to the inner circle, week two promo, and he goes, did you see this Jericho, like he didn't even know that I knew. He's like, did you see this Jericho promo? And I'm like, yeah, AEW's awesome, I fucking love it. And he's like, it got, and he watches every week now. Like, he's that exact demographic. Like Jericho has just, and I think Cody's number two in my mind, but I think Jericho's the guy that,
02:00:44
Speaker
has established this company. He's the most valuable guy from year one. Well, and I want to agree with you. And then here's going back to that week to establishing the inner circle promo. He did something that we hadn't seen in so long, which was when the fans started chanting, we the people. He squashed it like live like you watch WWE try to ignore problems.
02:01:10
Speaker
and it doesn't go away, and Jericho just write out, hey, shut the fuck up with the We The People chant, that's over with, and it was like the people, that was what they wanted to hear. It was like they had been waiting for decades to have their shit addressed. The other thing is, you forget towards the end of Jericho's career in WWE, he was able to get everything over. He got a potted plant over. Shook D, Shook D is gonna be known as Pineapple Pete.
02:01:40
Speaker
for the rest of his time in wrestling because Chris Jericho says something one time, and it's a hit. And he made probably thousands of dollars off of pineapple pea t-shirts already. It's one of the best sellers on Pro Wrestling T's I looked today. And he's also just a cool heel, and not this like, he's a tweener, he's gonna be a face. Like, he's a full-blown heel, everyone treats him like a heel, yet he's so fucking cool and people want to sing along to his song.
02:02:06
Speaker
I was very excited to sing Judas in New York. I was very excited. You keep bringing up that bad fucking news, Chris. Well, go back to all out and a little bit of the bubbly. Garrett and I, the next day, I remember as we were getting our shit packed in our hotel, one of the things we were talking about is like it was so fucking awesome watching him be shitty to the bucks.
02:02:28
Speaker
on the way out about winning the title. He was reveling in the fact that all of these core pieces of the AEW roster had to deal with the fact that Chris Jericho was now the centerpiece of that show just like he said he was going to be. Also, it's good champagne. I enjoy it. You have some?
02:02:48
Speaker
I've had some, there's still another bottle. During a few months ago, I ran a WrestleMania 5K, a social distance 5K, and then afterwards opened up a little bit of the bubbly and some orange juice, made some mimosas. They were delicious. And also tweeted a picture of that together and said,
02:03:12
Speaker
AEW's newest tag team, Chris Jericho and Orange Cassidy. And a lot of people like that tweet. Yeah, I saw that. What you should do, because this is a great combo though. This needs to be our new goal here is we need to at least you either save that bottle of a little bit of the bubbly or we need to get another one because what we need to do is the four of us need to go to a show sometime. Again, I mean, yeah, the first one we went to was a pretty good one. Well, but I mean like together, like sitting there to enjoy the show.
02:03:41
Speaker
Yes. I mean, you can come to Atlantic City at the end of July. We'll see some GCW. We'll see Nick Gage on the boardwalk while maintaining six feet of distance and wearing a mask.
02:03:54
Speaker
I've got one lemon white claw here that's left, so we can either extend this a little bit longer and you can come up with some more conversation, or I have to save this one for later. Well, I think we need to finish off there. Garrett needs to give us his MVP. That's true. It's that cat. Yeah, it was my cat that came in here. No, as far as... You already said it, Chris. Cody. Cody has had the best in-ring stories. He has the best promos. He's the one guy that...
02:04:22
Speaker
He can pull me in nearly every single time with whatever he's doing. I always knew Garrett was my favorite of you two. That is not what I wanted to hear. Nobody said Peter Avalon, huh?
02:04:37
Speaker
I will say, and maybe we'll wrap on this, but it's interesting to me that there was so much consternation about the librarians at the top. Like, the librarians suck. I don't get it. And it's like, look, it was just a lower card. It's just a joke, man. And it works as a lower card joke. He's much more valuable as a low carder with the stupid librarian thing that I think has gotten over to a certain extent. But he basically just loses. Don't worry about it.
02:05:05
Speaker
Is that WWE PTSD talking where you see something really stupid pushed into a really serious spot on the show? Yeah, I think it is. Well, and I think people didn't realize at first, too, because dark was so good, they didn't realize that certain people wrestling dark every week were basically the jobbers, right? Cutler and Avalon and Liva Bates. The like slightly, you know, the Mike Sharps, the Lanny Pappos of the jobbers, you know?
02:05:36
Speaker
And whatever happened to that goddamn sex cult? It's a great question. Unknown. Unknown. I will ask that question every week. All right. Well, I think with that, let's wrap it up. We talked about our boners. We'll end it on a sex cult. This has been fun, gentlemen. Gotta do it again. Probably getting some thanks to Kent for playing the host there for a little bit. You were. You were a great host, Kent.
02:06:04
Speaker
And we'll be back. We do have a little bit more of this series. So I hope you guys have been enjoying us deep diving on this stuff. So it's been fun for us. I mean, we're just drinking some white claws on a weeknight. Just right. I enjoy every conversation. Every conversation I share with you guys is a blast. And this has been a lot of fun and I'm excited for much more to come.
02:06:29
Speaker
Indeed. All right. Well, adios. Yeah, I've been Chris. No, facts. We've been the curtain jerks and they're predetermined. So hit our goddamn music.