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166: Murders in the Military
50 Plays1 month ago
We have a mega-sized episode for you that coincided nicely with Remembrance Day being this week! Hope you have some long drive or big pile of dishes, we guess?? Or maybe you listen at work, like Alanna. So sorry, but this one is NOT Safe For Work. Earbuds in, in presence of kiddos.
And as we discuss, you're never safe, not even at work, not even if you work as a trained soldier, not if someone decides they want you dead. Kelsey tells the tale of Tyrone Hassell III, who lived up to his awesome name by joining the military and making his dad proud. Of course it ends in tragedy, and that's all we will say here. Listen for the rest.
Alanna takes us to Texas and the Fort Hood shooting of 2009. To the scene of the deadliest mass shooting on an American military base, and the heroes that stopped it from going further. The content is extremely upsetting, so please take care when listening.
This one is dedicated to our military family, friends and all service members and their families for all they do. Thank you!!
Darkcast Promo of the week: the Bell Witch Podcast!
Check out all our friends on the Darkcast network website, and our site and socials! See you next week and Keep it Cryptic!
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Transcript
Introduction to Castles and Cryptids
00:00:03
Speaker
Darkcast Network, indie pods with a dark side.
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome to Castles and Cryptids, where the Castles are haunted and the Cryptids are cryptic as fuck. And I'm your host, Alanna. And I'm Kelsey. And I was just desperately trying to figure out what episode this was. I think you said it was 166, but I'm all mixed up in my numbers now. Okay, welcome to episode 166, where I actually know what I'm doing. no We all know that's not the case.
Holiday Traditions and Retail Trends
00:00:56
Speaker
um but uh yeah i hope you enjoyed last week's and i guess spooky season is over the christmas creep is really starting to yeah to come in it's creeping in yeah that's what they call it right i heard that somewhere today look oh Oh, it was some podcast where she was like, I couldn't believe there was no Halloween stuff to buy like a week before Halloween. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Like everybody knows they just fricking get rid of it. I'm like, you don't shop very much, do you? ah We put our stuff on like final clearance and then we wrote everything off the, I think the day after Halloween, uh, everything. thanks
00:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, like Thanksgiving, Harvest, Halloween, all that got written off and it's gonna get donated. Yeah, she was looking for pumpkin candles. It was ah yeah i was listening to it was the wrestler ladies I like to listen to, Nikki and Bri.
00:02:03
Speaker
ah Bella, Garcia, whatever they're going by now. And so she's like desperately trying to find pumpkin spice candles or whatever. And I'm like, you got to start looking in like August. Yeah. I'm like, are you for real? Like peppermint now peppermint everything. Come on. Yeah, I know. She doesn't like to shop a lot because she's kind of like tries to be very much more environmentally friendly than her twin. But I was like, yeah, what are you doing? Also, why do you need it to smell like pumpkins all week or whatever? Damn. But them Americans, they're all like, oh, yeah, Halloween and now Thanksgiving and Christmas. Oh, I walked into the Walmart today and there was just Christmas trees right by the door. I was like, really? Yeah. My work is full full Christmas everywhere you look.
Political Landscape and Elections
00:02:56
Speaker
I'm surprised they haven't started playing Christmas music, but
00:02:59
Speaker
oh i've been taking down all my halloween decorations i haven't taken down a single thing this is probably the latest i've ever had them up i normally take them down almost the day after yeah but yeah we'll we'll hold on to it we'll we'll fight the christmas creep anyway we can
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah. As well as any other creeps. I don't know. It's been a week. There was an election. People are know talking about it. All of my American podcaster friends were like, I hope by the time this comes out, we know something good. And I'm like, oh, I think you're all going to be disappointed. Oh, you sweet summer child. My like Trump family. The Trudeau Unholy Union is back together.
00:03:49
Speaker
sorry my whole family like we were so optimistic we really really we believe we believed that a miracle um like landslide was gonna happen in the world would be better but it didn't happen yeah i don't know it's hard because with politics you're supposed to usually be like well, you know, they're all people and not one of them's evil and everybody's supposed to be allowed to truly right vote for whoever they want and keep it secret yeah if they want. but
00:04:27
Speaker
yeah i don't know yeah you're just like wait wasn't that one convicted and like i was gonna say once a woman who has opinions and the other ones a convicted felon who shouldn't have even been able to run that was basically i saw this clip that air force was doing a special about it and it was like going around the table i'm not sure if it was rick bursar one of the other guys Oh shit, really? And he was like asking people like, which one should we vote for? And it was like, I don't know. One's a convicted felon and the other one's like, I just can't put my finger on it. She's just too, uh, womany or something like that. And they were just like, yes, yes, that's just it. Hillary was the same way. Big woman vibes. I was like, oh my God, this is really funny. But sad.
00:05:18
Speaker
On the internet, they're like, just God forbid anybody other than a woman. quite Right? Ugh. I think I posted something somewhere in the comments that I was like, they should have just voted for a tree, like just a tree in the forest and then just listen to their top advisors. Every time something comes out that they need to figure out, just just get a panel of like people educated in that subject and then have that panel vote. And that's what the American government should do. Listen to the experts and not somebody to the tree. Yeah.
00:05:57
Speaker
yeah Yeah, pretend to take it to the tree. I don't know, nail it to the tree, see if the tree answers.
00:06:06
Speaker
it's like Maybe listen to your experts and people because you can't be an expert on everything. and the president or people trying to ride in a country, that's a lot of things that they're trying to handle and they have to have to be able to listen to the experts that they're supposed to be relying on. Right, such as the one person. Yeah, you have problems. You can't have one person that knows everything or knows a solution to everything that's not realistic, but you need somebody who's going to listen to advice, at least. A trainable dog.
00:06:43
Speaker
Well, that's often what they want is, yeah, just a puppet, but oh I don't know. It's just scary. But also you're like, well, maybe that many people really, you know, want him in or whatever. And or then you're like a Cambridge Analytica situation again, where they were like all doing lobbying and shitty stuff on Facebook. And I don't know. I can't remember the exact.
00:07:12
Speaker
misinformation campaigns yeah i haven't looked it up but i did read somewhere that it said in total like in the number of like individual votes he received i guess it was definitely down from the number of votes he received the first time so i think that's uh good news but i mean uh, votes for the Democrats were even less than that. So it just didn't, didn't work. But yeah, I'd be hopeful. We reelected Trudeau and people didn't really so claim to not like him very loudly. So it's confusing. It really is that whole like, you know, two party system where we really have the same thing.
00:08:03
Speaker
even though oh yeah we're supposed to like have a whatever they call it an op like and opposition when they have it a more minority government here it's like so you're kind of working together I mean you should all be working together because it is good to have differing views anyway I didn't realize it had a rant in me I'm sorry well I was telling somebody to like for most things I think government wise are trying to pass bills or yeah do things even trying to like stimulate or fix the economy or anything four years can pass by so quickly and trying to have a positive impact on something can take longer than four years so if every four years people are changing what the plan is how how are things trying to get better in like the long term if like every four years somebody's doing something totally different
00:08:58
Speaker
I think it can be really hard that way for like both sides for sure.
Challenges in Political Leadership
00:09:04
Speaker
I read something that did say for like, ah yeah, for the first two years, you're you're the what's happening is from the last person's, you know, um take presidency or whatever, because it's the things that they implemented. And it's like, yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker
yeah all the people that what he put in the supreme court the last time wouldn't they be the ones who decided oh let's just overturn Roe versus Wade or whatever yeah they're still there a lot most of them what isn't that a lifetime basically until they die yeah i think so i don't think you should be allowed to yeah i don't think you should be allowed to be appointed at anything for a lifetime but no I don't think anybody should be able to ever be granted that. It's so crazy. it's like And i read I'm reading my historical fiction going like, yeah they used to argue about who should be on the throne then, because it's like, oh, it's ah only whoever's born to it. But then, uh-oh, they changed religions. Oh, no. We don't want a Catholic or whatever. So fuck him, kill everybody, and put a Protestant back on the throne or whatever it was. It goes back and forth with the whole Jacobite
00:10:21
Speaker
two-door, you know, all the British. yeah I'm like, man, it's changed, but it's it's not. It's vicious still. It's the same arguments. It's the haves and the have-nots. People aren't getting paid enough. People can't feed their families. We want to rise up in rebellion. Some people don't have the rights they should.
00:10:43
Speaker
yeah
00:10:46
Speaker
the same just the the names have switched or like who was in what position have switched but yeah yeah crazy purportedly we elect them now instead of them just being like oh i'm a hapsburg or whatever my cousins my parents were cousins yeah get napo baby presidents oh
00:11:14
Speaker
We still got a king technically, but we don't give him any power in our country. It's wild. Who knows what's happening? Nobody knows. I don't know. I'm sorry. What are we talking about again? I feel like I'm on Tangent Island today. I know it's been a while since we've recorded.
00:11:38
Speaker
Except for the ghost thing that we tacked on that I was like, wait, I need to read you this ghost story. And it made us laugh a lot, actually. Yeah, perfect. well Yeah. Well, anyway, that was fun. Yes. And I'm sure this one won't be as fun. So... Yeah, I was gonna say this one. At least mine I know isn't isn't fun.
00:12:04
Speaker
No, no, when you're back in the true crime sphere, you can never really say it's fun. But unless we're doing like petty crimes about people throwing like chicken nuggets at people or something. Yeah, I heard one about a guy or something and he tried to steal a slutty nurse costume. o I think that was on the live laugh larceny or whatever. Oh, yeah.
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes you gotta to listen to just some of those petty crime ones or whatever. Some funny shit. Yeah, damn. That'd be pretty funny. Yeah. oh Well, yeah, mine's pretty bad too. I don't know. Should we dive into it? I'm scared. Yeah. I'm scared, Kelsey.
00:12:52
Speaker
hold me but so i'll give you a yeah it's like how how do i i'll hug the screen oh no she finished her drink already wow
00:13:14
Speaker
It's a beverage that's the kind of the hair of the dog that bit me yesterday, too. So it's like, I can't record. i need to I need to put some pep in my step because I was literally like kind of hungover this morning almost because I shouldn't have drank something on a weeknight. Anyway, I'm sure, whatever. It's like the page the pay goes in my account. And then I'm like, it's the weekend, right? It's like, no, no, it's still Thursday night.
00:13:44
Speaker
Just calm down there. Take it back about 20% Atlanta. You have to go to work tomorrow, you crazy girl. oh I know, I know. I'm a 36 year old drunken dumbass. I get it. I owned up to my mistakes. I went to work. It was rough. At least you said it was kind of slower.
00:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, we only had a thousand plates left in our queue this morning. And then by the time I left, there was like 51. They're like, careful Alana, you have half an hour to go. It's been a while since we've been this caught up because we'll have like 20 to 30,000 to do every month. And so it's.
00:14:37
Speaker
And then they're like, oh yeah, those ones where their payment declined or whatever got rejected for the first time, we're going to dump them in with some retries now. So you're going to have to try them again for these stupid people that we've told their thing didn't work once and they haven't updated their shit yet. Yay. Just call them like a hundred times. We email them.
00:14:59
Speaker
and call them and then with the retries we email them and call them again it's probably just going to spam i i got an email talking about the emergency roadside kits that were like a scam saying click here to claim your giveaway thing and I hadn't heard about it and then in the next week I got nine of those emails so I was like wow right oh yeah the scammers love that because people do say we have a lot of emails but holy fuck we have a lot of different departments I don't know to tell you yeah exactly different services that you could have stuff going on with if you have 10 vehicles signed up for automatic renewal you're gonna get 10 different fucking like yeah emails with each plate we process like
00:15:48
Speaker
Whatever, you know what I mean. Kelsey, tell me a story. I have. Well, I almost said a fun one. It's not fun, but it is a love triangle gone wrong. Oh, Yeah. Not to. How do I know the women are going to get fucked over?
00:16:13
Speaker
a No, actually this time it's sadly a husband. I wonder if I know this one. Okay. I hadn't really heard about it. There's not a whole lot of information on this case. It is decently recent. It's 2018. Decently recent. I like that. Yeah, because I feel like the last four years was a blur. So really, was this only two years ago? It could have been.
00:16:42
Speaker
and I had to keep looking at what years mine happened too. But all right, like there's like multiple shootings with a very similar name. So isn't that fun? Because there's just so many shootings in the US. Yeah, I was talking to somebody because I got a new credit card in the mail. And the expiry said November. And then it said Dash 30. And I might wait is 2030 going to be like an actual year? Right? That seems fake, but okay.
00:17:14
Speaker
What's a ah far expiry date away to be like six years? Yeah. I was like, oh, it just kind of like took me back. I was typing it into something and it was like, oh, 2030. I didn't even want to think of that. I had a lady say like the same thing about her expiry date. Yeah. like No, no, thanks. ah Barely comprehend having to write 2025 on stuff pretty soon. but yeah 2001 a space odyssey still sounds fucking futuristic yeah right but also you're like that's like 24 years ago yeah we're fine everything's dust uh so this is
00:18:01
Speaker
I got a little bit of backstory first.
Tyrone Hassel III's Life and Career
00:18:04
Speaker
Not a whole lot. There wasn't a whole lot to find or discuss about this case, but um it revolves around a gentleman named Tyrone Hassel III. Whoa. Hassel? Yeah. H-A-S-S-E-L. Right. Hasselhoff without the hoff. Yeah, basically.
00:18:28
Speaker
A guy told me the other day, he's like, I'm like, okay, and who am I speaking to, please? And I have like their name pulled up already, I'm just confirming or whatever. He's like, Ryan, Paige, P-A-G-E, like in a book.
00:18:41
Speaker
I almost died. I'm sorry, I was just like, okay, yep. You still have this a address? A book, what's that?
00:18:54
Speaker
Can you imagine? Where you get the edumication? With the words and the, hi Gordo, Gordo made an entrance. The bell song could be about me where they at the beginning beginning and the Beauty and the Beast was like, but her nose stuck in a book. and Just walking around with it. I'm like, yeah, that's me. Gordo, you're going to fall off the desk if you try and lay down.
00:19:19
Speaker
florida ah yeah So it gets a little confusing because there's a lot of quotes from Tyrone's dad who is Tyrone Hassell Jr.
00:19:33
Speaker
ah yeah own junior okay Yeah, so Tyrone Jr. is going to be dad. If I say Tyrone, that's just our main individual he had. Yeah, that's a bit rough. yeah Tyrone had actually decided to enlist in the military while he was in college. you Okay. So pretty young. Yeah. Yeah. All of these people are so young.
00:20:02
Speaker
His father had said quote he was made motivated to do better ah He lived here and he knew it wasn't he knew it wasn't nothing here nothing going on and i have a god Yeah, there's no jobs there obviously no, uh No, that's what I would take that as Yeah, I know the father at the time ah lives in Michigan, so I'm not sure exactly if that's where ah they had grown up or where they were from, but. Okay. Yeah.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah, but um I think it's later on I have a quote saying like, he was like a hero of the community like people really looked up to him and he was such a smart and bright kid. ah So, yeah, it's really heartbreaking. Uh oh. Okay. Yeah.
00:21:00
Speaker
i in two thousand 15. Tyrone ends up meeting Kamiya, who was also in the military. ah They were both stationed at Fort Carson in Colorado. Oh, yeah. The Rocky Mountains, just south of us.
00:21:21
Speaker
Their relationship became serious quickly. a Tyrone's father said when he heard of his relationship with Kamiya, he had already gotten engaged. So it moved pretty pretty quickly, I guess. He hadn't even heard that his son was in a relationship until they were already engaged. Wow. yeah I wonder if that surprised him. I would imagine it would.
00:21:48
Speaker
I think so. ah The couple were really happy though and it said that the family really got along and Kamiya was the wife was really good and the the couple ended up pretty quickly having a son. Okay. Yeah.
00:22:05
Speaker
get her done. They're in college, they're in the military, they're in each other's pants. Yeah, so I don't know exactly like how long the timeline, I mean, they met in 2015, and this case takes place in 2018. So that's only three years later. So right Yeah. Well, sometimes ah surprises do happen. Yeah. Uh, so it's December 31st, 2018, a new year's Eve, uh, about 11 PM when Kamiya ends up having to call 911 and she tells the operator that she needs help and that her husband has been shot. So yeah.
00:22:55
Speaker
So like police respond and that's when they find RB Sergeant Tyrone Hassell III laying lifeless on the driveway. um He had been shot multiple times as he had stood near his vehicle. Gordo, your hair is flying everywhere and I do not appreciate it.
00:23:14
Speaker
The return of the cat hair. I can feel stuff on my face and yes, you're very cute though. You're very cute. He was doing that last time. I know.
00:23:29
Speaker
ah
00:23:31
Speaker
So Tyrone had been shot in the head, the neck and the torso. So multiple times while he stood like in the driveway. Oh wow, so like from the front? I so. Didn't really see anything specific but yeah, at least he got shot at least three times. He had the neck and the torso and he was rushed to the hospital where he was later pronounced dead.
00:24:04
Speaker
The couple had actually been enjoying a leave away from the military for the holidays and they had been staying at Tyrone's father's house in Michigan with their nearly two-year-old son.
00:24:20
Speaker
oh yeah who Is it Tyrone the fourth? I need to know. and it I know his name is Tyrone. i oh Yeah, but he has like, yeah, the baby's nickname is actually Chunk.
00:24:43
Speaker
oh Chunk. Yeah. All right. Chunk. Uh, which I thought was hilarious. I was thinking you were going to say T.J. or something? Oh, that'd be a nice, yeah. Because it wasn't until one of my last sources that it actually named the sun. Everything else before that just said, and their sun, chunk. I was like, their sun's name could not be chunk.
00:25:07
Speaker
it can't be the kid's name they wouldn't do that yeah someone made a typo and everybody just keeps swimming well but it was like four sources it was like four sources that just kept saying and they're so in chunk yeah a little frustrating yeah ah yeah so they were on leave um I'm not sure who their son normally stays with if it was like Tyrone's father or if it stays with them. Oh, okay. Like if they both get deployed at once, do you mean? It sounded like they normally are because it talks about them being at a base with somebody else all the time. So I don't really... Let's just be living in a PMQ on the base. Pat always called the little houses.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure. Yeah.
00:26:07
Speaker
Tyrone at the time had been working as a wheel mechanic and then Kamiya, my wife, she was a specialist, she had been working as a truck driver. Oh, I mean what? I think if they get married, they get to live in a little house on the base. Maybe that's why they get married in Sweden. Anyway, sorry, just thought. Oh, maybe.
00:26:29
Speaker
yeah They were really young like he at the time was only 23 and Camille was only 22. Yeah. yeah it Sounds similar to how old Pat was when he first got married and they were both in the military too.
00:26:44
Speaker
yeah okay o creepy Camille was working as a truck driver and they were stationed at the Fort Stewart in Georgia. Okay, Georgia.
00:26:58
Speaker
They film a lot of shit there.
00:27:03
Speaker
Did you watch any? of Oh, no, because anyway, sorry. I my ADD is showing. I was going to you didn't watch most of the Marvel. So I was like, she probably didn't watch any of the Agatha all along. but just I just can't watch that. Yeah, you did. OK. Yeah.
00:27:20
Speaker
And I thought it was really good. And I think it was one of those words like filmed in Georgia or whatever after every damn episode. So you're like, Oh, I didn't notice that. No, I liked it. It was cute.
00:27:33
Speaker
yeah yeah that was pretty good and i can't stop singing the witch's road song ever yeah right so catchy apparently it's on spot about oh damn yeah i mean played it almost every episode right it's like how many variations can we do of the same song endless amount apparently is it stuck in your head yet is it stuck in your head yeah yeah yeah We need to do a remix down the rabbit hole.
00:28:09
Speaker
Oh my god, I'm sorry. I'll stop. um Yeah, so police noted that Kamiya was distraught at her husband's seemingly random shooting. There was a yeah ah gentleman named Jeremy Pepper, who was one of the police officers who responded at the scene.
00:28:30
Speaker
ah his Pepper Saltman from Modern Family. No. There's a ah different Jeremy that comes up later. No. So I do want to say they are spelled different. This Jeremy that's the police officer is spelled J-A-R-A-M-E-E, which I don't think I had ever seen before. Jeremy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's odd.
00:28:56
Speaker
Yeah. ah But yeah, he was one of the cops responding to the scene and he stated that when we were lifting the gurney into the back of the ambulance ah that got him in there and I stepped back that she, Kamiya, was going past me to climb into the back of that ambulance. I think that's pretty typical like you would do with spouse. I mean, like just got shot in the driveway.
00:29:23
Speaker
She wants to be close to him. Are they not allowed to? I can't remember if you're supposed to be in there or maybe if the paramedics the only one who's allowed. I don't know. I think it might depend kind of like what the situation is, but yeah.
00:29:41
Speaker
um police obviously they started investigating pretty quickly trying to figure out like why this happened and the father Tyrone Jr says that the family really came together to help Kamiya as she was mourning um and like trying to make sense of what happened and he said oh yeah yeah uh quote most of the day she would just sit on the couch and wouldn't move wouldn't go nowhere which i mean i think that would be and Anybody would be like that. Yeah, how confusing. And they have no idea at all. It's weird. They get a couple tips later on that helps them figure out what was really going on. But she must be so confused. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good. Get to what, really? We'll see. There's some stuff going behind the scenes. Of course.
00:30:41
Speaker
ah They said that the Hassel family was really cooperating with the police and Kamiya was telling them that she had stayed at home with their son while Tyrone had attended a family party because again it was New Year's Eve and it was almost midnight already so he had gone out to go to like a little family party they were having and she had stayed home with their son and she told investigators that she really had no idea who would have targeted her husband like that or um why he would have gotten shot. Uh-oh. I'm very scared now for this. Yep. Okay. Should have seen where this was going a little faster. a True crime. oh This is where things get interesting and the cops start unraveling everything. Please do some more suspects.
00:31:36
Speaker
because I only have the the wife so far that you've introduced me to or to go on. Well, this is ah another gentleman. He is involved. His name is Jeremy. I don't know if it's like... ah cu normal spelled Jeremy? stilller Yeah, this is normal Jeremy. ah seer cuer i don't I don't know how you pronounce his last name. I'm just going to call him Jeremy. He was 24.
00:32:04
Speaker
at the time and he was also an active duty soldier. um He had been like at the same station and everything that the hassles had been at, so he knew them both. hu And ah he and Kamiya were arrested just 11 days after the shooting. He and Kamiya? Following the police receiving a
00:32:36
Speaker
I'd say like multiple different tips. um So it sounds like the first one that they get was that a neighbor had noticed a man getting into a black car right after the shooting had happened. okay And then pretty quickly after that they received another tip, this time from a woman who claimed that her son was in the military and he and that this woman said that her son had information that Kamiya was having an affair with another soldier that was at the base and that this person was Jeremy. Oh no. That's the oldest one in the book, the oldest motive. Right?
00:33:22
Speaker
oh It's like, come on, can you not be such a cliche?
The Murder Plot Unfolds
00:33:27
Speaker
Have you ever heard? What did we say? Well, I think I wrote it down that it was going to be our new tagline because it's like, haven't you ever heard of divorce? Just get a divorce. Oh, yeah. We said that like 100 times in the one episode.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah, it can be very frustrating. That's like 50 percent of true crime cases. Just get a fucking divorce. Right. Yeah, so they get the tip that there was like a black car spotted in the area and a man getting into it. And then there's another tip that Kami is having an affair with somebody at the military base. And then police get contacted by a separate soldier from that same base who says that he's fearing for his own safety after hearing about Tyrone's shooting from Jeremy directly, who
00:34:21
Speaker
who ends up like, oh for some reason, I don't really know why, ends up describing like shooting Tyrone, which is really weird. He talks about how like he shot him in the driveway and then he got closer and realized Tyrone was still alive, so he shot him in the forehead.
00:34:38
Speaker
um like a second time or something and yeah and he was just like apparently Jeremy was just telling this to one of his friends that was at the military base and this guy's like uh he knows that I know this and stuff so he he was afraid of like if Jeremy would come after him yes Yeah, I thought that was a little weird. um Well, reminds me of a forensic files or one of those type of shows it might not have been actually that but I was watching one the other day and like, the, the, they were so young when the crime was committed that he did talk about it to a friend or something horrible crime.
00:35:20
Speaker
they raped a woman and because one of them said the other guy's name, they decided to put her in the trunk of her car and push her into a lake when they were like fishy. yeah and like the one kid kept talking about it to this this other boy they knew or whatever but yeah this kid was so scared because he's like they're gonna come after me if i say if i snitch like he's like this was the 90s there was like snitches whatever things all over the place yeah like and so yeah he was so scared and he finally came forward and actually um
00:35:52
Speaker
Like it was the only thing, basically the only for evidence to help solve this case. And like he got so much um flack from like his community, his family, his friends for like telling the truth and coming forward. Apparently it was very, I cried so I was such an emotional episode and like he wasn't staying anonymous cause he was just like still scared.
00:36:20
Speaker
And like the family was like thanking him and stuff like hugging him and I was just like, oh my god, I'm sobbing. like I'd be like, I'll adopt you. like fuck Right? oh Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, if you don't want to get snitched on, don't do a fucking crime. Don't deserve it.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah, I remember the lady's name was Barbara, but that's all I remember. Go look it up. yeah um um But yeah, I thought that was kind of weird. um but yeah Yeah, why is this just volunteering the information? Sorry.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah, it was so weird. So yeah, like that additional soldier comes forward. So the police are really like, okay, like we got to talk to Kamiya, we got to talk to this Jeremy guy. um They placed Jeremy under surveillance, and they're able to figure out that he I guess had bought two different handguns.
00:37:13
Speaker
from somebody that was in the military at the military base and then he had bought additional like ammunition somewhere and they were able to trace this all back to him and they were able to figure out that one of the guns that he had in his possession matched the one that had been used to shoot Tyrone um and then they matched his car ah like license plate I think it was to like being in the area at the time of the shooting and I don't even think he was supposed to be in the same state or something so they were like yeah like he why was he here within hours of the shooting in a different state they didn't even try to like cover it up they're just like yeah might as well have been broad daylight for all that they just walked up and popped him and like left and then it's like
00:38:08
Speaker
You don't think people are going to have questions about that? Yeah, it was like so weird. You're not going to try and poison him or something? Like but like most hate it yeah women? I don't know.
00:38:20
Speaker
Kamiya and Jeremy had been obviously having an affair and they had planned Tyrone's murder together. um The three of them had been assigned to the first armored brigade combat team, 3rd inventory division at Fort Stewart in Georgia. So like they had presumably all three of them known each other for I don't know how long, at least a little while.
00:38:43
Speaker
Oh, because they were all on that infantry unit. Okay. Yeah. So like police have all this piece together and they're questioning Camilla like over different times. ah And obviously they kind of start pressing her about like who Jeremy is and how it could be related to it. And she initially denies any involvement with him. But eventually as they kind of mount the evidence they have against him and her,
00:39:12
Speaker
ah she eventually confesses to what happened, stating that the pair had planned to kill Tyrone so that they could finally be together and collect the army's $400,000 life insurance benefit that they would have received. You don't get that with the divorce. Yeah, and then it was there was some stuff like, I might have it later,
00:39:37
Speaker
that um
00:39:40
Speaker
Jeremy like had even had like a bond with their son like the couple's son and everything and he thought they were like gonna be a little family they just had to kill Tyrone first and then they'd be a happily little family it's yeah it's so weird I blame it on the fact that you're dealing with like 22 year old a 23 year old and a 24 year old like they're all just it's just that kind of sick thinking of like Yeah, your brains are totally valid. If I can't have you or what I want, then yeah, nobody can. We'll just kill you. It's just easier. You're just out of the picture. Yeah. In what world does your brain, that's the first thing you go to? Yeah.
00:40:27
Speaker
um yeah So Kamiya, she ends up doing these ah videotaped interviews, obviously, with detectives.
00:40:39
Speaker
where they can I ask are they like uh are they all white black they're all black hmm okay Yeah, there is some pictures on the drive. um I like the ones of like Tyrone with his dad. um The name Tyrone doesn't strike me as much of a white guy name. That was sort of my first clue, but I was just good for it, I guess. Yeah, his dad is really, really well spoken.
00:41:10
Speaker
and There he's done a lot of interviews and he says he he'll like never ever stop talking about this case because he wants like more people to know about his son. He doesn't ever want his son to be forgotten and everything. And that's good. yeah That makes you feel good about telling it then, you know. Yeah. I was like, no, that's good. He has done quite a few interviews and he seems like he'd be, I don't know, like an amazing like father figure. Like I wish I had known more about um
00:41:49
Speaker
like his son Tyrone to like provide more information other than like a couple quotes saying like everybody in the community was so proud of him and stuff yeah but that's the frustrating part everybody says that like the lack of information on the victims is very yeah telling of our society There's some longer interviews like um that are out there that you can watch. I kind of ran out of time to watch them, but I'll put them up on the website. But yeah, his father seems so well spoken and everything that, yeah. know But yeah, it didn't make a difference, I guess, in deciding to like cover this case when he was really
00:42:32
Speaker
talking about like how much he wants to talk about the case and wants it in the public eye and all that kind of stuff, so yeah. Yeah, nothing's scarier for us to think that somebody's gonna get mad at us for telling their kid's story or something. That's a scary thing as a true crime blockbuster. Yeah, for sure. you won um Because you do hear.
00:42:54
Speaker
Yeah, and you do hear about people being upset and stuff about it. I don't know how I feel after I covered it member the Aaron um uh the mr gay austria uh what was his name um he he went missing after he was in that sauna he was living in austria but his mom like he was american born and then i heard from you know some of our podcast friends that like oh i heard she's not thrilled about people covering that sometimes so good for you and i was like
00:43:27
Speaker
I was so scared. I was like, well, I'm just like, I hope I did it justice. like I heard t so it had been covered on someone else's podcast and I thought they did a great job, so I just, you know. Yeah. Whatever. ah Anyway, the mom was pretty badass, so I was like, don't come after me. Okay, I'm scared of you.
00:43:49
Speaker
ah Yeah, so in like these taped interviews that Camille was doing with detectives, she was saying like I'm just as guilty as he is, um talking about Jeremy, and having like contacted Jeremy with multiple updates.
00:44:05
Speaker
um about Tyrone's whereabouts so that Jeremy could gun him down like yeah like oh he's on the move oh he's home again oh he's going out to grab this he's oh he's putting on his coat you can you can hit him now like jo fucking ones like oh it's so bad yeah the person on the inside of like the inside job is the spouse and they're giving all the It's not just like, oh, we planned that he was going to shoot him and then it was going to happen that night. Like she's literally. Yeah. Camilla told police that Jeremy had gone to Michigan at least four times between December 19th and 31st so that they could like in person try and plan the murder. um And then additional planning was taking place over Snapchat.
00:44:54
Speaker
I also- Okay. He's not- The Jeremy guy's not living there? No. like I don't know where he was, but he wasn't even supposed to be in the state. That's why like when they linked his car to being in that area, they're like, okay, buddy, like why why the heck are you here if it wasn't to- Shoot him. He's working somewhere else. Yeah. Okay.
00:45:16
Speaker
Um so I don't think I kept it but I did read somewhere that um it said that uh Kamiya had gotten like upset because Jeremy kept kind of like flaking out Um, like six different times and she was getting fed up like different days that the shooting was supposed to take place. Uh, and she was like putting pressure on him and then she started messaging him that, Hey, our leave is up in two days and we're supposed to go back and he is not allowed to come back.
00:45:55
Speaker
like you hear me like he's not coming back from yeah like he's not coming back from this lead that's not how this is going to go down and you have to do it you've already flaked out six times yeah just this woman is awful yeah she was yeah pressuring him i yeah that reminds me of a case similar or a similar thing where the person's wife ex-wife had try to hire like multiple different hit men. Oh, yeah. It's wild. What? Are you stupid? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they don't ah they don't get caught right away. So I guess it's like, yeah, you know, I might call them stupid, but it's crazy how far people can get with this shit. And like, I don't know what would have happened without all the all the tips that happened between like
00:46:53
Speaker
like the other people in the military um and everything really saying like what they had overheard and the knowledge that they had once they heard about the shooting so kudos to them because that really I think is what got this like case going because it didn't sound like they had anything else that they could figure out before that Yeah, circumstantial. There's no DNA struggle. Like, yeah, it's just very execution style. Yeah, nothing that it even mentioned. um Yeah, so like Kamiya and Jeremy, they were
00:47:33
Speaker
What? Jeremy was arrested I think on the 11th day um after the shooting and I think it said that Kamiya was ah arrested the next day on the 12th day from the shooting, which was the day after Tyrone's funeral or a couple days after.
00:47:51
Speaker
um Yeah. and Yeah, I read different things everywhere. One of the sources said they were both charged with first degree premeditated murder. I would think they're so culpable. all the Yeah. like yeah um I can so hear Gordo just going crazy with his bottle cap. I know. Sounded like a herd of rhinos. Are you having fun?
00:48:25
Speaker
Ryan was wearing tap shoes. click neglect like like or the house hippos from the old commercial we had in Canada that was to teach you to not believe everything you see. I talked about that. It wasn't until within the last couple years that I actually understood what that commercial was trying to teach you. I just thought it was the cute hippo commercial. Right. I i think people started talking about it on like social media again and was like, does anybody remember this? And it's like on Reddit. And we're like, yes, we all remember it. But what was it about?
00:48:58
Speaker
other than a hippo that lives in your closet and eats peanut butter toast. It's so cute. I just saw so one on my like Instagram that was like 90s kids will remember this and it's a lady and then she starts reading this book about the baby raccoon and mama raccoon and what you can and can't eat and I was like yeah i do remember that actually it was like yeah don't do drugs is one of those kind of ones yeah like the don't you put it don't stuff it in your face it was kind of like that oh it might look good to eat yeah or it might look good to taste stick with you don't they the wildest thing is if you i'm sure there's compilations on youtube probably at least of like 90s and early 2000s
00:49:44
Speaker
like tv commercials like ytv and like disney commercials because those are some of the wildest things like they just don't make commercials like that anymore no ytv was our that's the canadian one right i don't think i think so yeah it like have all the it's like their disney channel bullshit and all that right yeah but some of the commercials are wild it's like you know yeah talking Talking sharks trying to sell you yogurt tubes and you're like, what is even happening right now? like They wouldn't put that shit on TV anymore.
00:50:21
Speaker
oh god This isn't the same. like Yeah, it's like the early days of the internet. There's some wild times when we yeah get ahold of something new and we're like, ah let's go crazy with this new platform thing we have.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah, commercials about, you can buy this machine that'll help you bedazzle like jeans. It's like, oh shit, like nice. You can braid your hair and put beads in it with this thing and it's going to rip the hair out of your head because it's $10 from Walmart. Advertising directed at children, yeah. It's crazy.
00:50:58
Speaker
um Yeah, not a lot of information about trial. um I guess Kamiya didn't take the stand or anything. Don't know too much about Jeremy, but Kamiya was found guilty of conspiracy and first degree murder and was sentenced in in August of 2019 to life in prison without the chance of parole. Which is good. Wow. Okay. That was recent, right? Yeah.
00:51:28
Speaker
Yeah, ah Jeremy pled guilty to second-degree murder. I don't know how it got changed from verse to second. Well, it's interesting that she was the one egging him on in the end. I do wonder if that played a part. I don't know. um Jeremy was sentenced in September of 2019 to 65 to 90 years in prison.
00:51:56
Speaker
wow which i don't think i had ever heard that before it's kind of i feel like a weird isn't it normally like 25 years to life or something yeah 65 to years that's what everything said it sounds like two life sentences or something yeah yeah um the baron county chief assistant prosecutor steve Perangali said after the jury delivered its verdict that justice was served, but we still lost. And the army lost a good soldier and Tyrone's father lost a good son. Yeah. And the kid lost both his parents. Right? He wasn't even two. He wasn't even two. Yeah, so much for your perfect little family. You're a family annihilator, almost.
00:52:53
Speaker
You got rid of both the parents, essentially. I don't know. That's the worst part about those types of, you know, spousal murders and whatnot. Right?
00:53:06
Speaker
um Then Tyrone's mother, Lashonda Jones, she, I guess, in court, had words for her daughter-in-law, Kamiya, saying, I want you to spend every day suffering behind bars for the rest of your life, and I hope every time you close your eyes, my son taps you on the shoulder shoulders and smiles. Nice. That's creepy.
00:53:33
Speaker
Damn. ah That painted the picture of that because. ah Like so like she doesn't want her to get any rest ever again. if I wouldn't like are you kidding me? Yeah, so fucked up woman especially like if you remember when I was talking about like Tyrone jr The father was talking about how like the family really rat rallied around Kamiya Well, she sat on the couch and was just so distraught She couldn't function or get up from it and then they find out she planned the whole thing for months Daddy. Yeah, that's part of the
00:54:11
Speaker
the worst betrayal i think most of those families would feel yeah is the way they just yeah yeah we'll keep up the ruse yeah it's sick it's very sick i will post the video because i think this is just like a testament to what a good person tyron jr is the dad because um well in jail, um like while Jeremy was in jail, don't know much about Kamiya, but when Jeremy was in jail, Tyrone's father actually, it looked like it might have been over Skype or something, but he ended up having a sit down with Jeremy and like it got recorded. um It was like almost an hour long, this conversation and it's like posted on YouTube. um Tyrone posted it.
00:55:08
Speaker
Wow. and Yeah. It's pretty
Consequences and Reflections
00:55:12
Speaker
crazy. In it. Right? Like, it's wild. um In it. Oh, this is where I had it. In it, Jeremy states that he choked and that it had taken him at least six times before he was actually able to shoot Tyrone. um And Jeremy repeatedly apologized, stating I'm truly sorry and then I know that ain't worth shit. Sounds like he has more of a conscience than she ever did.
00:55:38
Speaker
Yeah, during the conversation, Jeremy revealed that he had been planning to divorce his own wife and had fallen in love with Kamiya. Yeah, he was married too, I guess. For shame. He can get a divorce, but she can't. She don't know what that means. Yeah, what the fuck? They weren't worried about that part? Jesus. Do they have kids? I hope not.
00:56:09
Speaker
I don't think so. Um, he had fallen in love with Kamiya while the three of them have been stationed in South Korea. That's where they were stationed. Whoa. That's wild. Yeah. So I think they had met there because when it said like, what, they were stationed in Colorado or some shit, like, so they yeah must have gotten all three of them reassigned again after they met the first time. So like it had been going on for a while.
00:56:40
Speaker
um yeah he stated that he had even become attached to the couple's baby nickname Chunk um yeah uh in the interview like tyrone Tyrone would have known him then yeah like Tyrone did I it didn't ever really talk about like how well um but yeah if they had been stationed together at least twice they definitely like knew think
00:57:11
Speaker
because he kind of called it a love triangle but all right all right that's yeah yeah fucked it all up yeah that's nice guy he stated or Jeremy stated that he oh I already said that he had been attached to the couple's child uh he said quote I had issues already um you don't say yeah ah I was all over the place for some reason. I thought Kamiya was my life. ah He said that he was manipulated by her to kill Tyrone.
00:57:51
Speaker
Um, and was stunned to hear from Tyrone's father, actually, like, I guess during this conversation that Kamiya had actually told investigators that Jeremy didn't care about her and her son. So she was trying to like pin it all on Jeremy when she was getting interviewed, be like, Oh, I didn't manipulate him. Yeah. Oh yeah. Um, time to turn on him. Cause we got caught. Yeah. Yeah. yeah uh bus him thrown uh Jeremy said my mind was twisted and I thought I had to do that in order for me to have a family with her because I wanted kids um yeah so he must not have had any kids from his marriage I don't I've never heard anything about what his wife thought of this whole thing going down she'd be like divorce signed seal delivered
00:58:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's a deal breaker, ladies. That's forgotten what is it? 30 Rock. She gets up. a it's a space His wife, Angie, she has all the lines, all the catch phrases.
00:59:03
Speaker
and Yeah, so I guess Tyrone Jr. the father told Jeremy that he appreciated his remorse. um He even stated on the record, you seem like a good guy.
00:59:16
Speaker
um however i guess at some point he had also siar sarcastically warned Jeremy that he would meet a lot of friends in jail. So, I mean.
00:59:34
Speaker
I heard someone say the other day, yeah, get all the regular meals, free sex that you want. No. Just don't drop the soap. Yeah.
00:59:49
Speaker
um Yeah, the dad also said that the Michigan Department of Corrections is tough, and he always said he wouldn't wish it on his worst enemy. um So I think that was kind of, he at least appreciated that like Jeremy seemed to be remorseful.
01:00:09
Speaker
um Tyrone also wondered how Jeremy and Kamiya believed that they could go on after murdering his son, saying, quote, after all that, you thought you could have just lived happily ever after. Like, what? That's exactly know what, what do you think was gonna happen? Like,
01:00:26
Speaker
What's the plan here, guys? What's the end goal? Yeah, updates for the case. I guess in 2020, Jeremy attempted to withdraw his guilty plea that he had ah initially made.
01:00:42
Speaker
and tried to appeal his sentence, but this was like denied. um At the news of Jeremy's attempts, Tyrone Jr. reacted with with disbelief, saying, Jeremy entering the guilty plea the first time made me feel like he wanted to clear his conscience, but with withdrawing it was like a slap in the face, and it makes you wonder what this guy is thinking. Yeah. Seriously, though. like I thought he kind of felt bad. Like, and now he's just like, yeah, it's like, no, son, you did it. We know. Yeah. Kamiya. Only really update I have about her is that she also petitioned for a new trial claiming she was the victim of battered women's syndrome. Oh, fuck all the way off. I know. ah Her late husband's father Tyrone um denies that his son was abusive and like,
01:01:42
Speaker
um didn't find out any evidence for that and like right no one else had ever said it ever sorry yeah yeah like if you listen to this the father speak in interviews like he is crying and I don't know you can tell he's so well spoken and like so thoughtful even when he's talking about like jeremy's part in everything that i can't believe that like that man would have a son that would be abusive if you like i know that's not how it happens but like that man would have raised a son that would do that like yeah yeah he obviously set a really good example and was just like he seems phenomenal in like the interviews i saw of him like cool yeah um did they have other kids yeah i didn't watch
01:02:35
Speaker
um I didn't see anything about that um I was really hoping at least that like Tyrone's son would get to stay with like Tyrone Jr the grandfather like but it seems like the couple's son now lives with Kamiya's mother um and Tyrone Jr sees him via FaceTime and I don't know how often that kind of made me sad because I was like oh I wish that guy got to like raise his son's son because- It doesn't usually go with the convicted person's grandparents or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. What the heck? Yeah, I don't know what the situation is. Maybe they have a good relationship and they like do some, I don't know, I want to say sharing. Yeah, it's said that he only sees his grandchild over FaceTime.
01:03:33
Speaker
Which I thought was really sad. Yeah, so he basically lost his son and his grandson. i Like... Ugh. When you're a parent, that you're like, even if you're young, you're like, fuck, I should probably make a will because if someone thing out puts a bolt on us, I want to make sure my kid doesn't end up like with, like, Pat doesn't even talk to his parents. Like, what if somehow they were like, no, we want the kid or, you know what I mean? Like,
01:04:01
Speaker
and then they end up living with grandparents they'd never known or something like that's not right yeah and the kid was the kid was only two so like he doesn't remember his father he doesn't remember the mom he's only ever gonna know like what people tell him or what he reads on the internet about them so i wonder what the relationship was with the i have no idea her parents i never saw anything that talked about it um her side of the family nothing they just talked about like their side of the family welcoming her into their family but nothing about her family um damn yeah he just said that uh about the son that he would like him to know that his father was a good man and that his father loved him very dearly um
01:04:49
Speaker
and that Tyrone Hassell the third was our hometown hero so I'd like people to remember him that way.
01:04:59
Speaker
Yeah so like I said that video of him and Jeremy I guess is on YouTube. um I have a link for it. I think I like kind of skipped around in it a little bit but I mean it's like an hour long and then the case has also been featured on I guess A and&E's killer cases in 2021 and then there was an interview I watched, part of it I didn't watch the whole episode of an episode of 2020 that he did and that's the one I saw the interview and I realized like how well spoken the father was and like everything like that about the case so yeah yeah but that's the case I wish there had been like more information or anything about it
01:05:48
Speaker
I'm looking at the photos of him with his dad now. I wouldn't have been able to tell you which one was the dad and the son, just like that amazing race frickin' dad-son duo. I was like, is it me with the but can't tell black people's ages? His dad looks, he dresses young. He's got like dreadlocks and he's wearing jeans and the son's like all in the army uniform. So I was like, whoa.
01:06:15
Speaker
Yeah, like I think he probably had had him pretty young, but. Oh, yeah, I would say his dad probably yeah just in his 40s there. I don't know. Yeah, like if that. Oh, yeah, I want to hate her. She looks nice, but. I know, right? Like, yeah. Yeah, oh and this is the other guy.
01:06:45
Speaker
Yeah. Not even cuter than your husband, girl. What the fuck? I know. And he's already married. Like, did she know he was already married? Come on. That's probably part of the thrill. Who knows? ah They're both married. Whatever. Like, get over yourselves. It's not worth. Nothing is worth ending someone else's life.
01:07:10
Speaker
I just couldn't ever put myself there. I don't know. You gotta be some sort of sociopathic. And she did not seem to care one bit afterwards. No, like i I had looked at multiple sources that were kind of talking about stuff and it wasn't until I read one that was talking about stuff from like police reports and like the court documents revealed in the conversations and it was like holy shit like she was like basically berating Jeremy for how many times he backed out of their plans and wasn't able to follow through and then
01:07:49
Speaker
even Jeremy saying oh yeah I shot him like twice and then he collapsed to the ground and then he's like I waited a second realized he was still breathing so I walked over and shot him in the forehead to make sure he was dead and then I walked away and I was like Jesus like that's savage yeah and just think if he had had a little bit of bigger balls to stand up to his fucking mistress then he probably would have been like, you know what? No, I don't think this is right. And just like, you want to do it, you do it yourself. Like, then we wouldn't be here. Right. And it's weird too, because I mean, it's the military. So that like, the military isn't going to investigate a random senseless shooting of one of their soldiers. Like, that doesn't... Like, would they not investigate that? Like... And was this on base?
01:08:45
Speaker
ah No, but I mean, okay, it's a wife of an active duty soldier and then you have an active duty soldier like ah jimmy i don't You would think they were smart people but they just acted so dumb like Yeah, like all of it's dumb. All of it is dumb. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. oh oh Yeah. Well, I hope that you're welcome. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Hope that kid's doing better. um It reminds me on a lighter note of George Foreman. And I think he has like four sons named George Foreman.
01:09:23
Speaker
Wait, I could be wrong, but yeah there's definitely a bunch of George Forman's. That guy that makes the grill, you know, that Michael Scott likes to grill his morning bacon on and his feet.
01:09:35
Speaker
of
01:09:37
Speaker
We had a Forman grill. I have no idea where it is. I doubt my mom still has it. I think I need a panini press. I want some fancy melted sandwiches. Oh, that's what we used ours for most of the time. Right. Delicious.
01:09:54
Speaker
ah One time at a corner store near Pat's old apartment in Fredericton, they had the one that made a tomato brie melted sandwich. And I've been thinking about that like ever since. I just need to try and make it on my own.
01:10:11
Speaker
Girl, that was like 20 years ago. Jesus. You've been just ham and cheese like paninis. True. Yeah, Pat will throw that in like a grilled cheese situation. and I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, delicious. I think my victory will stay. She had her nose in a book and she loved fucking sandwiches. Mine, I love, so.
01:10:41
Speaker
i had I had a ham and cheese sandwich for breakfast because I thought I was going to be getting ready. I used to get a Subway sandwich and have some for breakfast and some for lunch. yeah I had a ham and cheese sandwich for breakfast because I thought I was going to be like running out the door to go grocery shopping almost right away and then I lost all my motivation.
01:11:03
Speaker
Yeah, right after I ate. She lost all will to live. no yeah ah And then later in the day I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, so I had two sandwiches. Nice. That's like 50% of what I ate today was this but sandwiches, two different kinds. Oh yeah, I've been on the sandwich kick patwin grocery shopping, and so we got those big Portuguese fluffy buns. Ooh, they're so good. Nice.
01:11:33
Speaker
and i rediscovered i liked miracle whip i think i told you maybe oh i don't like miracle whip i guess i do but i didn't remember that because pat doesn't like it so we don't keep it in the house and then like somebody brought in that um turkey for like turkey sandwiches around our canadian thanksgiving whatever many weeks ago that was now yeah and i was like holy shit this is really good
01:12:02
Speaker
So silly. Anyway, we like sandwiches. We'll get a, if we look at that, buy me a coffee. I've always thought about setting up that website where people can just donate if they don't want it. Cause a lot of time people don't want to like join Patreon. They just want to send you money. It's like, buy us a sandwich. That's what we'll set it up as. Yes.
01:12:24
Speaker
i mean tell like don't start um When I go to a restaurant I almost always get the burger. Like I yeah love a burger. You do love a good burger. It's my go-to at any restaurant ever because rarely you get disappointed by a burger and fries. Yeah and you don't always want to venture a branch out because you don't know what you're gonna get.
01:12:51
Speaker
Yeah. And some things can like really upset my stomach and everything. So yeah, burgers, at least restaurant wise are almost always safe. Fast food. No, like normally can't do burgers anywhere, but restaurants. Yeah. So good. Where they use real meat. Yeah. Except it's like more homemade. Yeah. Oh my God.
01:13:26
Speaker
Welcome to the Bell Witch podcast, a show that covers the infamous legend of the historic Bell Witch haunting in southern United States in the 19th century, where the Bell family experienced frightening happenings within their home. Hang on a second. No, no, no, that's the wrong Bell Witch. This is a podcast about being a witchy pagan in the 21st century, airing biweekly.
01:13:55
Speaker
with different guests on each month sharing their pearls of wisdom and gems of knowledge from their very own witchy businesses. I call it a moot-loot. Here we cover a wide range of pagan and witchcraft related topics from sigils, spells and spirits to Reiki rituals and pagan parenting while camping in the bell tent named Elilah.
01:14:16
Speaker
It's got nothing to do with the bell witch from the 19th century in Tennessee that scared people to death in a little townhouse, which may or may not be true. Pretty cool story but yeah, it's the wrong bell witch. This bell witch podcast is brought to you by Swales, the friendly green witch from Leeds, UK. A northern witch with a strong Yorkshire accent, a love of all things weird spooky magical, and a smelly dragon named Dave.
01:14:41
Speaker
So tune in every two weeks for a sprinkling of Yorkshire magic. Listen to the Belle Witch podcast with me, Swells, a friendly green witch, wherever you get your podcasts.
01:15:03
Speaker
All right. We are back. from a hopefully pretty brief break for you, but a little bit of a longer one for us have to record the rest of the episode.
01:15:16
Speaker
um which uh yeah we kind of did that a little bit for the last one too so so sue us so what so buttons it's the holidays it's the hectic time of year yeah it's the most uh yes yes yes especially if you work in retail as we were sort of semi just discussing yeah oh But yeah, life gets to you. I was just still like, I can have days off and still be like, why don't I have any laundry done? It's just the way it is. Right? Yeah. Because I had to finish these crazy notes. and
01:16:03
Speaker
a um We're rough at times. Too right. Oh damn. Oh no. I'm scared. I don't like this. It brought to mind words someone else said on a podcast when they're like, I don't know if I'm at the right part of my cycle for this today or something like that.
01:16:25
Speaker
ah Period's coming. I'm going to definitely cry way more easier is how it works with me.
01:16:33
Speaker
so I never get mood shifts. I never have. No. No. Well, lucky for you. no I know, right? I don't feel like I get terrible PMS or periods, which is like very lucky actually. So I can kind of semi-relate, but that seems pretty cool. Yeah, like.
01:17:00
Speaker
at least from like mood changes or anything yeah don't ever get that but i like with my back and everything get really bad back pain yeah yeah like the first couple days i'm normally taking tylenol and stuff to get through the day hoping i'm not working that day and oh yeah weed works well also if that's your thing Yeah, I've done that before. Oh, hot baths. Yeah, whatever you can do. Yeah, back pain. And yeah, I don't know. I definitely get testy the first couple days too. And a little teary sometimes. So. tea Oh, yeah. I've watched a couple movies too that made me tear up this weekend. but
01:17:57
Speaker
If anyone gets a chance to watch the one called My Old Ass with Aubrey Plaza, where she meets her younger self, it was really good. oh yeah I have heard really good things about it. I haven't seen it yet.
01:18:14
Speaker
Yeah, she's like, you can't be me. You're 40. Slow down, bitch. and Yeah, you know, just really cute. ah see Sounds funny. But you have a gap in your teeth. I know. Wear your retainer, bitch. Yeah. oh ah Yeah.
01:18:31
Speaker
That's me. If I don't wear my night guard, I do slowly get a gap between my two front teeth. No way. Oh, yeah. And it is noticeable. If you've had some removed, they can start to move because that's what happened with Pat. Yeah.
01:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, I haven't had any of my teeth removed, but they um when I had my braces put on, they thought they might have to remove them just because how big a lot of my teeth are at the front, especially at the top.
01:19:03
Speaker
ah But luckily they didn't end up having to remove any, but they did like file some of them down. day they have like Yeah, it was like a flexible almost like emery board, like a nail file. It was wild. And they basically just flossed my teeth with it and like,
01:19:21
Speaker
carved off like a millimeter or two off of each side of all of my teeth and then they all fit in and everything was good um like her mind and had to magically do with her teeth because she had a little bit of a buck tooth oh yeah harry potter that's crazy yeah so because of them doing that i guess at the top after my wisdom teeth got taken out now i get like a little gap it's It's not very big, like maybe two or three millile millimeters yeah it'll get. um Yeah, so I have to be really good about wearing, I have like a hard plastic retainer, like a mouth guard kind of thing I have to put in. Oh. Knit. Yeah, it keeps it all together. I did get given the night guard. He said, like the dentist kept saying, oh, with
01:20:16
Speaker
ground grinding at the teeth it's hard to tell if it's old or new but like you might be grinding in your sleep and i was like yeah i feel like maybe i woke up clenching or whatever. ah You can't also really be like, or you don't want to tell your dentist that it might just be from when you used to rave back in the day and you probably ground your teeth a few times, right? Like, so they give you a night guard. And I'm like, I never remember to put that fucking thing in. Like, I barely remember to take my eye makeup off. I'm bad. Okay. But I don't know. I haven't really noticed much of a problem. I'm just gonna have to try and
01:20:54
Speaker
remember to add it to my routine in case I am still kind of clenching. but I know I am even with that Ann because one of my teeth at the bottom is cracked. um Okay. Yeah, you can like see it if you look really closely but the dentist said it it's fine like and I for some reason I it's not deep enough that I have even like sensitivity to hot and cold from it but you can see it like and it's ah all the way down to like my from the tip of my tooth down to the gums like you can see the crack. Is it in the front or sort of? Yeah, it's like anno front little ones. Yeah. Oh damn. and I've had a little bit of chicken in my back molar, but that was the only thing I've ever been like, Oh, okay. Yeah. Maybe I do grind. Rise and grind. You know what they say? No. Right?
01:21:47
Speaker
or sleep and grind your teeth and power through and you're like no don't grate your teeth yeah i believe my aunt used to do it too my mom said her sister used to grind her teeth and she'd hear it at night or whatever no she i think most people do i don't remember you telling me about the filing down because i'm sure i talked about a spy lady who like filed her teeth down to look like an old woman um might have been reaching the hall speaking of my mother but and They also used their like grinders and stuff because of how my teeth were sitting before I had my braces done. The top little jagged part on your front and like the front parts of your teeth um yeah are supposed to eventually wear are away and because how mine were sitting in my mouth they never did. ah Really? Some people's teeth are kind of pointy?
01:22:45
Speaker
oh i just had a yeah like vine had like it was kind of like all these little ridges across it um so they filed all that down too uh so that they'd be more flat looking yeah that's cool they do like because your teeth do look very like even yeah yeah they look a lot better now braces or whatever but then them using a nail file inside your mouth, oh your teeth, and then then it is not a fun sound. It's like them using a drill. It just is odd. Oh, I just don't even like the things they use to scrape, to clean your teeth. You know, like I go from the cleanings, but I'm like that sensation, and make I end up like holding my hands together, like clenching my fist. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, same. Yeah. And then I do have a bit of sensitive
01:23:42
Speaker
Yeah, sensitive teeth and gum recession. So yay, isn't it fun to be getting older? I know. Oh, I'm approaching 40. Great. One of the the gums on one of my teeth receded at the beginning of this year and it was really hot and cold sensitive for like seven or eight months. And I couldn't even, even if I touched that part of my tooth, I would get like a shooting paint and it finally went away. It finally got like less sensitive and
01:24:15
Speaker
oh my god is doing a lot better now but it was yeah it was wild even brushing my teeth if the bristles went over it it felt like i was i was like flinching and everything oh wow yeah that sounds bad like almost like an exposed nerve or something right like yeah that's what they told me is they said it um it could feel that bad But that like the nerve wasn't exposed or anything, but they were like, yeah, I guess it's just more sensitive than it typically is. And I was like, thank God, it finally went away. So it was brutal. They're like, you know, never, it might not ever go away. And I was like, well, don't tell me that. Excuse us. I don't want to live for the next 50 years with this fucking tooth like this. Don't tell me that. They like go for my gums doing the cleaning. I'm like, no, no.
01:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, stay away! It's rough, yeah. Oh, pardon me. Well, Gordo has just settled in. We were boring him. No. Yeah, he had left the room and everything and now he's back. Did I mention that my dog was in here humping pillows and then I had to kick him out? Because he followed me right upstairs. It was very Gordo-esque. He was right up in my business.
01:25:41
Speaker
Yeah, I swear he can, I think it's when I open the drawer in here to take out the mic and my headphones that he is like, oh, it's recording time.
01:25:53
Speaker
half loafe not just Yeah, she's in this room. It's oh, she's going to be recording. Let's distract her. Like, like when Pat's playing Xbox and then the dog hears him turn it off.
01:26:08
Speaker
That's his sign. It's walkie-talkie. Aw, yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I better not say that too loud. That was hours earlier today, so now it's story time. Yeah. All right. ah So yes, I was saying to Kelsey that it was a rough roll rough one to write.
01:26:32
Speaker
and oh fun fun thing rasa pointed out to me my sister was like did you guys mean for the military like murders to come out on the week of remembrance day and i was like no we did not um much as i like a themed episode it just happened to shuffle out that way yeah
01:27:00
Speaker
We just picked it. Yeah. a So I guess it's going to be in that month, but I think it was supposed to be like yeah almost first, I think, like this episode is coming out almost like a week or two late, I think.
01:27:23
Speaker
I think we did want Ghost to be the Halloween-y one. Originally yeah planned, yeah. So yeah, I mean it did get pushed closer to Remembrance Day. But yeah, when we had to fit a bonus episode in as recording, we like ended up being like, nope, now we're behind. You're a regular episode now. Yeah. So.
01:27:49
Speaker
All right, hope everyone enjoyed that and i and the ghost story one, which also took me a while to get all that of it out and edited because we recorded that in two parts with me talking about the haunted ah yeah school slash museum now, which has an upcoming Christmas Carol night at the end of November here.
01:28:16
Speaker
Yeah, like hot chocolate and now and it's not known for being haunted. So it just has like events and they have like an upcoming like Christmas event. Because I was I think I was trying to look up to see if it's just like free to get into. Because it'd be fun to go just like check it out. Be like, yeah, are those the blinds that got nailed down or whatever because they were trying to prevent the poltergeist or whoever it was, Peter from flicking everything up and then they come down the next morning and all the blinds are up anyway and blah blah blah. yeah He just sounded kind of annoying. Yeah, it didn't sound that bad. And also we were like, why would you come back and haunt high school? That's just crazy. Yeah, right.
01:29:14
Speaker
annie Anywho, now that that all is out of the way, we are going to tell you the story of, um we can't just call it the Fort Hood shootings because there's been several instances that that's happened.
01:29:30
Speaker
um oh damn oh no that's sad uh so sadly we have to refer to this one as like the specifically the ones that happened in 2009 and the perpetrator or the guy we're going to be talking about is named nidal malik hasan and so it's his i guess we'll call it great all of your warnings mask, multiple murders, um and stuff. So let's get into it. Be a little different than yours, but just as sad, I'm sure. ah Right. yeah um So this guy, who I mostly referred to by his last name, Hassan,
01:30:24
Speaker
Sometimes if they have shorter first names and last names, I'll just pick the shorter one, but they both were pretty short. So that was yeah, fair enough. These are easy to spell at least. Yay. Only good thing about this case.
01:30:39
Speaker
um But yeah, Nidal Hassan was born on the 8th of September in 1970 in Arlington County, Virginia. um His parents were Palestinian born, naturalized American citizens. So they had moved there, I assume before he was born or at some point, at some point obviously, but they're there now.
01:31:11
Speaker
Oh my God. He went to Wakefield High School in Arlington before they moved to Roanoke ever heard of it.
01:31:22
Speaker
Oh, no. After it disappeared? No. The Lost Colony, Roanoke. Oh, yes, they went there in 1986, so way after, but I would also like to cover that I think sometime. I don't want to say it's debunked, but I've heard, like, just the theories of the colony was lost because they did say they would, if they were left behind and they couldn't get any help, they might hang out with the tribes that were around there, like the Croatoans, like that word they left on the tree. you know Yeah, they would have. I mean, yeah, it's one thing to stay put and wait for help. But I mean, yeah that can't always
01:32:04
Speaker
definitely be the answer. Sometimes you just have to pack up and leave an area. Yeah, the help took like two years to come. They were supposed to come back with provisions way earlier. Yeah. Anyway.
01:32:16
Speaker
Oh, so while I hate to say anything's debunked, I think that one might have more of an explanation that people just don't always like to point to, but... Yeah, it's not as fun and mysterious. No. Fun place names though, and like Roanoke and Croatoan, and then there was a place near there in, they talked about an outlander that was called, um, Ocracoke, and I was like, these names are so fun. Yeah.
01:32:45
Speaker
Anyway, indigenous names, hard to say, but also awesome. Yeah. Okay, so that's, yes, they're in Virginia, then Roanoke 1986, where his father had moved there the year prior in order to set up some business enterprises, um including actually a market, a restaurant and an olive bar, whatever that may be.
01:33:11
Speaker
Damn, he's setting up three businesses at once? It's sad. I don't know. He was a go getter. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. um Yeah, work ethic in this family. Oh, boy. Yeah, we're we're sitting here complaining about having one one full time job each and then a podcast and this dude's starting three businesses.
01:33:36
Speaker
He's ambitious. Yes. And, you know, Sometimes being ambitious with no other goals is not a good thing. Not for him, I just. Whatever, we were just watching a documentary of Vince McMahon. It's not important.
01:33:57
Speaker
WWE. Anyway. OK, yes, this guy's go getter like his daddy, much like Vince McMahon, but he joined the military in 1988, so that would make him only
Military and Educational Journey
01:34:09
Speaker
18. He was like straight out of school.
01:34:12
Speaker
um che He also was still going to college at this same time, so he's in the military, he's going to college, he's getting an associate degree in science at Virginia Western Community College, and that happened in 1992.
01:34:30
Speaker
um He's no dummy. It said in 1995, he graduated from Virginia Tech with a bachelor's degree in biochemistry. and nice yeah he completed both of these programs with latin honors i guess that's good he was commissioned as on earth latin honors yeah is he taking latin is that what that means what is that i didn't click on the on the highlighted wikipedia link i don't know oh no
01:35:06
Speaker
You have no idea how long the Wikipedia... That was mostly my sources for this, to be honest. It's just so long and, like, thorough. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of times you have other options, but I was like... A lot of these other ones are just, like, university sites and weird stuff that I'm not sure about. It was it was odd. Uh-oh. Yeah. Um...
01:35:36
Speaker
So he was commissioned as an officer in the Army Medical Department in 1997 and enrolled at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, or the, get this, U-S-U-H-S in Bethsaida, Maryland. That's too many U's.
01:36:00
Speaker
the And S's. I know. I'm like UHS. Some things shouldn't be like, what is that? Like abbreviated or acronym? An acronym. Some things you shouldn't. Yeah. It's such an awkward one. Like when I told you at work, they call our our vehicle registration one VRAR. Yeah. You couldn't make those be are better together. Like the USUCH or the USUHS.
01:36:36
Speaker
Oh, and then I don't even think I said the place name right in Bethesda, Maryland. I think I said Betheda, Betheda or something. I don't know. Oh my god. Okay, so he was ah smart. He did do all these things. He was also on academic probation most of the time while he was there and it took him six years to complete the four-year program. So he was I don't know, a little slower, maybe? that okay um In he was a medical intern in resident of psychiatry at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center. Another little acronym for you. The Rams. No. No. They didn't put it as an acronym. I just did that myself. Oh. It's pretty good. I was picking up.
01:37:31
Speaker
No, no more bad acronym. It's ah from, uh, Oh, what is it called? Uh, fraud and Finis and Ferb, they have Alka, the organization without a cool acronym. Yeah. Uh, very tongue in cheek. So yes, he completes his psychiatry training there with a two year fellowship in, get this disaster and preventative psychiatry.
01:38:00
Speaker
I mean, I don't know what that is. A Yeah. Like like natural disaster?
01:38:14
Speaker
And then, but what is preventative? how How do you do you emotionally prepare people to like live through earthquakes? Like what are you talking about? Listen, the only reason I thought it was interesting because it just seems so ironic given what he does. Yeah, I was gonna say like anything to do with disaster or slash preventative. Yeah.
01:38:42
Speaker
But that earned him a master's degree in public health. I know,
01:38:51
Speaker
I'm sorry. I'm like, yeah, you can see where this is going. But yeah, it's so weird because he's like smart. So you're like, OK, but anyway, not to front load it too much. ah Yeah, we'll just get back to it. ah During his training there at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center, he received counseling and extra supervision.
01:39:13
Speaker
um Oh, I think he was a bit of maybe some problems as a student. I don't know exactly what they were. He was described as being socially isolated and making the occasional anti-American remark, however. um Oh, damn. It's not going great. And he seemed to become increasingly stressed and upset by his work with soldiers returning from warfare and their stories. Oh. Might not be the job for him. I don't know. Yeah.
01:39:53
Speaker
He's supposed to be counseling them and he's getting upset. Like this is, I don't know. Yeah. Hopefully he has like his own therapist and that kind of stuff. I think a lot of therapists have their own therapists. Right. Right. And people that they talk to. Yeah. On 30 Rock, there's a plot where Liz Lemon starts unloading everything onto, um,
01:40:20
Speaker
What's the page's name, ah Kenneth? And he just sits there with a smile and she just like, this is great. I could say anything. And it's just get it all off my chest. And then he's like, yeah. And then she'd like leave and he'd do something really stressed, like eat a pencil. Like, I don't know. and and and move down What's his face out bald in there, you know jack? He's just like you can't do that. Look at him. His skull shows He can't handle that kind of like, I don't know it makes some stupid joke to phrenology or whatever He can't handle that kind of emotional distress. You're breaking him He probably starts like Braying like a donkey. I don't know Kenneth is really weird
01:41:09
Speaker
Okay, I'll go back to the horrible story. um
01:41:17
Speaker
Hassan did receive some accolades and awards for his service, ah military awards, including in 1988 the Army Service Ribbon after completing advanced individual training. And he got the National Defense Service Medal twice, once during the Persian Gulf War and the, quote, global war on terror.
01:41:40
Speaker
Yeah. War on Terror. Didn't I say, of course he won an individual medal, not not a, like, teamwork medal. Yeah, advanced individual training, whatever that is.
01:41:54
Speaker
um um And he got the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal for support service during said War on Terror, which we won't even get into.
01:42:09
Speaker
How that's such a sticky subject for a quote unquote war. Yeah. But obviously there's yeah undertones of that and um whatever.
01:42:24
Speaker
um He lost his parents kind of early. His father in 1988, he was only 51 and his mother passed three years later. So he took that pretty hard. um Yeah.
01:42:35
Speaker
It would be. That's obviously very young. yeah He was only 28 when his dad passed, leaned on his faith. He was a devout Muslim, started attending like different mosques. One in Silver Spring, Maryland, where the, I guess it's called like an imam? I'm not sure if I'm saying that right. ah Like the person that heads the mosque, like, you know.
01:43:02
Speaker
the priest or whatever we call it with Christianity. yeah um excuse me The imam of that mosque said he was a reserved guy with a nice personality and got the impression that he was a committed soldier and that he was very much looking forward to like getting married. and Finding a wife. Yeah.
Preparation for Tragedy
01:43:30
Speaker
but ah So on the 31st of July 2009, we know he headed into a little shop called Guns Galore, which is a great name. Oh my god. I mean, the sign says it all.
01:43:48
Speaker
How American can you get? We have nothing like that in Canada. Like we're very similar to America in a lot of ways, but you know. yeah X out half the Starbucks, replace them with Tim Hortons, and also we don't have gun stores on every corner.
01:44:06
Speaker
and Like if somebody right now asked me to try and buy a gun to save my life, i other than googling where do I buy a gun in this province, I don't know where to start. Exactly. And yeah, we're fine with that. You shouldn't need to obtain the like most killing e of guns because if you're hunting you don't need a fucking like assault rifle or whatever i hope not because your aim is for shit yeah that if you're hunting animals in the wild yeah that you're planning on eating you don't need
01:44:49
Speaker
Whereas this guy inquires about obtaining the most technologically advanced weapon on the market and the one with the highest standard magazine capacity. quote Oh, that should have been a red flag. What can get me the most dead people in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of reloading? Yeah.
01:45:14
Speaker
yeah
01:45:17
Speaker
oh And he was even asked why he wanted it. I mean, I think that's a reasonable thing for a person selling you something to ask. Yeah. But he just like hedged around the question and kind of repeated his request. So it didn't say.
01:45:36
Speaker
um where upon there wasn't earth. If somebody is like looking for that kind of weapon and they are like in the military, so you're expecting them to have some sort of weapons training and that kind of stuff, you're probably not going to question them as much as a regular citizen that was inquiring about that type of weapon. So it would probably have like a certain thing if he if you mentioned he was in the military even when they asked him why he wanted it.
01:46:07
Speaker
I could see that yeah as being a reason. He's just like, oh yeah, I already know guns and whatever. yeah yeah um Of course it's not illegal for people to like go to a gun range or own a gun, especially in America.
01:46:27
Speaker
Yeah, but it was interesting how there was a not just the shop owner, but and ah a regular customer there who was an army specialist, who by the name of William Gilbert, he was just a regular customer who was overhearing the question and he wanted to give his opinion about whatever he owned and liked. And yes, it's a weird detail that like, he remembered it. But anyway, Hassan bought what was called an FN-57 semi-automatic pistol, followed by trips to pick up extra magazines and ammo, apparently over 3000 rounds worth of ammo. Which is an insane amount. Yeah.
01:47:15
Speaker
Like, that's wild. I bought a thousand yesterday and I'm all out. Yeah, like I feel like that's excessive unless you're, I don't know, standing in the desert and you just hold the trigger down for, I don't know, 10 minutes and then you're like, oh, all out. ah Right? Like hard to say. how Do people stock up? Why you need 3,000.
01:47:44
Speaker
The wild.
01:47:46
Speaker
now he did like he was practicing so i don't know if that's somewhat was to be used at these different shooting ranges in a nearby place called Florence but not the Italy one just to be clear um but yeah he got good enough to hit 100 yard targets with ease and accuracy so he was doing great Yeah, he loved that. Loved that for you. um He was dutifully deployed in November, as we are now. Oh no. Supposed to be at the end on the 28th.
01:48:27
Speaker
up that year uh so yeah as the date approached his demeanor at work was a little strained a little stressed about the deployment um apparently on november 3rd he gave away a bunch of belongings like his furniture to one of his neighbors and gave the reason that he was being deployed soon so i guess i don't need it i don't know okay because i was gonna say that's normally a red flag that somebody is planning to die right but like yeah you can't exactly point to the fact that like oh he had nothing in his calendar after this date because he was supposed to be deployed but yeah
01:49:12
Speaker
This is weird. that's still ah Yeah, like if his demeanor and everything at work is changing, and it sounds like he had already been deployed before to different areas. So it's not like it's his first deployment. I don't think so. But I'm not too sure. I just know that said he was upset at hearing about other people's deployments. As like, specifically, yeah, it's hard I can't Cause it sounded like when he got those medals or those honors or whatever that he had already been like sent somewhere, right? That's true. Cause one, one was the global war on terror. So it's hard to say where that would have been, but the other was, yeah, something in in the, I think the Persian. Yeah. Yeah. The Persian Gulf war. You're right. So that probably was off. Yeah. Off base. Um, so.
01:50:09
Speaker
Yeah, next thing we know, it's two days later after after he gave away some of his belongings, so it's on November 5th at approximately 1.35 p.m. or 1,335 hours. Hassan entered the Soldier Readiness Processing Center.
The Shooting Incident
01:50:30
Speaker
There's another acronym for you. Soldier Readiness.
01:50:37
Speaker
The SRPC.
01:50:41
Speaker
I don't know. But this place was used for medical treatment for people pre and post deployment. So presumably he's a little familiar with it. um Okay. Yeah. And when he got there, he had both the FN57 pistol now fitted with two laser max laser sights, one red, one green. Holy shit.
01:51:05
Speaker
a Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum on him. But then he could just walk on the walk on the base. Well, that's what I was going to say. It's he must have had them concealed to some point, because no, you're supposed to lock up your weapons, as will be evidenced by the way that nobody has a weapon to fight him back with. a Pat said there's like you like lock it up.
01:51:33
Speaker
been like the armory or something when you're on base because you're just not allowed to just walk around with it yeah yeah okay yeah I thought that was interesting I had never really thought about that before like I don't know I guess if you look you're a cop on duty you'll have your gun but if you're just like back at the office at the station like you're not gonna necessarily I don't know I guess it's a little different I think they almost always have their guns like yeah but again yeah i guess I guess it's a bit different with the soldiers, because they're not supposed to be safe facing any danger on the base. They're in law. Yeah, that's what makes this- I mean the higher up, like, senior people there, they should still be allowed to keep their weapons. Yeah, I mean, it definitely in the aftermath of this one, I wonder if it would have made a difference, but
01:52:31
Speaker
Hard to say. um It's interesting and sad and tragic of course but to like when I look at this one because there will be multiple people murdered if you hadn't for forgotten kind of figured out that's where this was going. That it's like different than one from a school shooting where people are completely defenseless but they're still quite defenseless. They don't have their weapons on them.
01:52:54
Speaker
Yeah, I was just going to say, because when I just said, oh yeah, why don't these people have guns? And then immediately in my head, I went, oh, that's the argument that people have that arm all the teachers. Right? Yeah. Yeah, they can be part of the problem as well as they can be part of the solution. I'm sure that we can argue that. But at least if you're if you're arming the supervisors and like senior people in a military base, those people are are somewhat trained more than whatever training you would ever be able to provide ah a school teacher. Well it's like the way they say don't just get a go and get a gun because you're terrified because if you don't know how to use it it's gonna be used against you like you know. Yeah it's more dangerous for you to have a gun in your house and not know how to use it and not have it safely stored than it is for you to not have a gun.
01:53:49
Speaker
Like, because there's so many accidental shootings, especially, it always breaks my heart when it's kids. I know! And stuff, yeah. Like, literally where, you know, you hear it with adults in a true crime case, you're like, sure, the gun just went off, but no. You're like, with kids, yeah, it can definitely, they can be just not that many better. Yeah, or they think it's a toy. Yeah, they don't have the gun saved.
01:54:18
Speaker
yeah they don't have the like knowledge to know that that's like a an actual weapon and not just a toy and there's consequences for pulling the trigger like right oh yeah very very sad
01:54:38
Speaker
continue i guess all right buckle up so he went up to the so yes november 5th remember remember the 5th of november he went up to the desk near the north doors at the soldier processing center or whatever and asked to please see major parish who was his uh deployment guy his liaison his go-to for deployment okay questions and shit
01:55:06
Speaker
I'm not sure if he wanted to target him specifically because he just basically waits until the worker at the desk left to get Major Parish and then he kind of springs into action, if you will. oh So maybe he's just trying to clear the people away from the phone or something. Yeah, yeah, something.
01:55:28
Speaker
Because he goes behind the desk, bows his head, stands up straight, and shouts the phrase a la la la walk bar and open fire.
01:55:42
Speaker
I'm trying to remember how it's pronounced from hearing it on the prison show Oz, which I mentioned recently. Yeah, I just remember everybody doing their praying, Allahu Akbar. But it is a religious phrase that most will probably recognize is from Islam. It, I guess it has a name officially. I read that it was called the Takbir.
01:56:09
Speaker
saying that right. I'm so sorry. But the point is that it's an Arabic phrase meaning Allah is greater than everything. um Little literal translation would be magnification of God. So like,
01:56:25
Speaker
know I guess similar to having to say like, God is good or whatever and praise be to God, you know, that kind of thing. It is used in a lot of different situations, which is kind of interesting. Like it's used in formal prayer or Salah, I think it's called, and in the Adnan or the Islamic call to prayer and Hajj as in a formal expression of faith and in times of distress or joy.
01:56:51
Speaker
um so i think yeah like it would be like like um oh my god you know what i mean like there's different phrases we have that are like religious sounding but also can be used as like swearing if it's french canadian and you know yeah sakura blue like fucking what's the other one they say tabernac which just means like tabernacle basically like church anyway oh But yeah, it's hard to say how he meant it, like distress or joy. I don't know. Also fun fact is the official motto of Iran and Iraq. There you go. But he Hassan uttered these powerful words and began his massacre.
01:57:41
Speaker
um yeah yeah he started by simply kind of spraying bullets out in a fan-like motion not really seemed to care like who or what it hit at first um and then he started targeting specific people so army reserve captain john Gaffany tried to stop Hassan by charging him. He was unsuccessful and unfortunately fatally wounded in the process. So that's his first victim that tried to stop him. Yeah. um And of course, there's a few because they're brave men, like they're army yeah soldiers.
01:58:25
Speaker
Absolutely. Oh, it just makes it so sad. So then an army reserve specialist named Logan Burnett threw a folding table at him and was shot in the hip. Yeah, but he took cover.
01:58:44
Speaker
The folding table made me really like feel like it was some Everyone's trying to charge him. I'm like, this feels like a WWE tables, letters and chairs match. You're fucking just going at him, like throwing tables at him. Like they're fucking going for it. Yeah. I mean, I'd be like, do you guys have tanks? Like, right. fuck I know. Like if you had time to sit down and think about how to You like, defend yourself. You should be one of the best people to, but it's all, it all happens so fast, you know? Yeah. And if you, are I mean, it's 2009, you probably aren't expecting it. I'm sure they have like procedures in place, just like most yeah companies have like fire drills. These are what happens if this type of emergency happens. I'm sure they have more plans in place nowadays than they did in 2009 for these kinds of things. Unfortunately.
01:59:45
Speaker
I know it's it's sad because they definitely would have already been dealing with school shootings and stuff but you still just never think it's gonna happen to you yeah yeah um yeah so this was kind of weird uh at this point Hassan had the chance to shoot what were obviously to him several civilian like workers so not soldiers but he chose not to so okay he's like obviously targeting actual active soldiers now um yeah approaches a group of five people who are all civilians and pointed the laser sight at one man's face before sweeping it away again and just moving on just must have been so fucking terrifying like i don't even know yeah
02:00:39
Speaker
um Three men were then able to escape by breaking a window at the back of the building. One was the major parish who he had requested to see. um okay yeah so i guess he got warned or was able to figure it out before he came you know out um and then two other soldiers escaped with him uh out the back window and next the attacker in assault nidal hasan encounters the base civilian police sergeant kimberly munley um something else i write gave her a different title but
02:01:20
Speaker
Anyway, she definitely worked there. She hears the shots and sped over where she then exchanges shots with um the attacker Hassan with her 9mm M9 pistol, then some shrapnel struck her hand followed by a bullet to her thigh and then her knee. So she was starting to fall as the second shot hit and he kicked her weapon away. Damn. But although it took me a while to find it after in the lists, she was not killed. So she did survive. That's crazy. I know. She was good for her. She's like the first one that um I guess like had a weapon.
02:02:11
Speaker
at least right other than yeah of fucking whatever was at hand like a folding table yeah yeah yeah cuz she was and like engaging with them yeah yeah yeah yeah that's why I think they called her police for the base or whatever I think she was actually okay allowed to as you know if you draw his attention you become the next target like I know that's why it's so brave for anyone to attempt to stop someone who's actually shooting like this Yeah, you're just drawing. You're drawing the line of fire directly at you. You don't know if you're going to be the last one to succeed or if you're just going to be another casualty. and Yeah.
02:02:53
Speaker
um Ending up outside the facility now, he continued to fire at fleeing soldiers, um whereupon the building was able to be um entered by some first responders.
02:03:08
Speaker
to help the wounded because he's now outside. um And as some of them recalled, the floor was just like slippery with blood. they They had trouble walking. Damn. It's gross, right? It's just like, oh, paints a picture.
02:03:26
Speaker
um Others started attempting to help. There was one soldier who was able to secure the south doors with his ACU belt. Must be some sort of utility belt. His Batman belt. no I know. Yeah. Yeah. Um, to kind of, yeah, block the entrances and provide first aid where he could. A man named Herman Toro, who was director of the, um, Oh, here's the acronym for it. The SRPS center arrived on scene. He sprang into action, helping another worker grab a Lieutenant Colonel Juanita Warman, who was lying on the ground north of the medical building.
02:04:08
Speaker
So she was injured, they start dragging her to the medical bay, but Hassan suddenly is just looming over them, like right on top of them. che And he's pointing the gun at them and he hovers the red laser over Toro's chest, who's the person, one of the people trying to drag her away, but he doesn't fire, he just moves on. Weird.
02:04:33
Speaker
I know. The parts to me are like oh really scary. Like I'm watching a movie. It's just like, whoa. I would have nightmares. Like why not? how to Yeah. Yeah. Like why some people and not others. These guys are soldiers. Yeah. We're by like point, point the thing at them and then yeah just walk away. Right. Um, this is when, okay. So yeah, after you have read the rest,
02:05:03
Speaker
laser sight across Toro's chest. Toro took cover watching as civilian police sergeant Mark Todd confronted Hassan. So I think at this point he's like maybe the third or fourth to confront him. A few people right tried to charge him at least. Yeah. um Mark commanded him to stand down. Mark remembers then he turned around and fired a couple rounds at me. I didn't hear him say a word. He just turned and fired.
02:05:33
Speaker
Mark fires back, so does Hassan, before he runs out of bullets. Which is always, by the way, the thing that gets Pat in any movie when they're like firing for way too long and he's like, they'd have to reload by now. You know, like, yeah they make it unrealistic. Like, where he's like, you know, fired many weapons and know how many, you know, probably rounds most of them should have. Like, you know, most little revolvers have what, like six fucking bullets? like Yeah.
02:06:03
Speaker
I know he bought like 3000 rounds, but he can't have had that all on like in the chamber. Yeah, he doesn't have them wrapped around him. Rambo style. makinging all that around yeah you can um Yeah, I was watching some reactors react to the John Wick movies and that was one of the things they were talking about was people and they're like, no, you can actually see him when he runs out. He is like searching somebody and grabbing their weapon and then using that one till it runs out. And it's like, yeah, like that's what you would do.
02:06:37
Speaker
yeah It's not one magic gun that has some spell on it that keeps reloading it. Yeah, whether the directors intended all that stuff, but I know that Keanu took those ones real seriously and, you know, did a lot of firearms training. And then I remember listening to the, he was on Smartless and I think Sean Hayes asked him about that. um So he called them action sequences or something?
02:07:05
Speaker
I don't know, but like it's like the only time Keanu almost sounded like a fender, where he's like, oh, stunt sequences. I think he goes, oh, you know, like you took the stunt work so well. And he's like, no, it's not stunt work. It's like us doing action sequences. Where he's like, yeah, we do it right. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, they're crazy. I mean, OK, yeah, you like really did all the yeah you did all the moves. I get it.
02:07:35
Speaker
Yeah. It was so funny on the show. Sean was like, oh, sorry. The action sequences.
02:07:48
Speaker
OK, so finally, we have the confrontation between Mark Todd and Nidal Hassan, where Hassan was reloading, stopping to reload. He had to turn to reach into his pocket.
02:08:05
Speaker
And just when he has to partially turn, that's when Mark Todd sees his chance and fires five shots right in a row. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Good. Yeah. Drop him. Yep. Finally, Nadara Hassan fell down. He was very seriously injured. ah They didn't probably know how much yet, but he was still alive. So Mark kicked away his weapon and cuffed him on the spot.
02:08:34
Speaker
so okay good job here fucking finally right you're like god damn it you did it like oops accidentally shot you in the knee oh here's one in the hip sorry oops my fingers slipping i mean he got in the foot hit at least four times he got hit yeah he got hit he was down okay yeah yeah apparently the whole mass shooting took less than 15 minutes total god it probably felt like a whole day like right and the deadly total like in those i think once that things that it was only almost like 10 minutes but like um by the end 13 people were dead and 33 were injured jeez
02:09:55
Speaker
All right, so I'm going to try and put you guys out of our collective misery as soon as possible. But there is, unfortunately, still a little bit to get through. um Victims, a little bit of the trial and kind of that stuff. But honestly, there is a quite large like Wikipedia page, as I was telling Kelsey, if there's anything you still have questions about at the end of this. There's a lot.
02:10:25
Speaker
Yeah. So Hassan had to be hospitalized into intensive care um and was in a coma basically from that point at the Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio,
02:10:39
Speaker
um which is almost interesting that you get someone to survive. A lot of the times they take the death by suicide, by cop yeah route, you know, they're not alive to be tried.
02:10:54
Speaker
most of the time. That's why I said shoot him, shoot him in the knee and the foot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was, he was yeah, alive to be tried. He, uh, what news report said he was comatose on the seventh. He eventually regained consciousness on the ninth of November. Um, however, I just want to stop and go through the victims that he, you know,
02:11:23
Speaker
killed so they will never regain consciousness. yeah ah So 13 in total, like I said, it was one of the most deadly or the most deadly on a military say base. Yeah. So number one was Michael Grant. Is it Cahill or Cahill when you see that last name? I never know.
02:11:48
Speaker
Okay, I'm not sure. um But he was killed. He was charging. He was I think the first one that was trying to charge Hassan um and was killed in the process. He was 62 years old. There was a libardo Eduardo Caraveo, age 52, whose rank was major.
02:12:13
Speaker
um Justin Michael DeCrow, who was 32 and a staff sergeant. John Paul Gaffney, 56, a captain. He was another person who also charged the shooter in an attempt to stop it the attack. Frederick Green, 29, a specialist. He was the third to charge the shooter. ah Jason Dean Hunt, a specialist, who was only 22,
02:12:41
Speaker
Amy Sue crook Kruger, 29, a Staff Sergeant. Erin Thomas Nemelka, 19, Private First Class. Michael Scott Pearson, 22, Private First Class. Russell Gilbert, Seager, 51, a Captain. Francesca Velez, 21.
02:13:02
Speaker
um This was rough. She was a Private First Class who was also three months pregnant when she was killed, so her baby was also killed. jeez i know that really got me um Juanita Lee Warman 55 lieutenant ki colonel so that would have been the woman that they were trying to drag away to safety i believe yeah um and yeah and then he like drained the sights on them and then didn't kill them but i don't know and then finally like too injured
02:13:41
Speaker
the shot that Yeah, and he remember almost killed the guy that was dragging her away, but then just didn't for some reason He just like put his gun trained it on him and then away and it's like what the fuck um And the final victim was cam see young Probably saying that wrong 23 private first class um But I did note that among the yeah survivors was the first female officer to try and fight back at him with her um service weapon. So that was Kimberly Munley. She was the one that was hit twice in the leg in the hip, I believe in the knee. Yeah. And and she was along with 31 other survivors who had been shot and injured. So a lot of wounded. Yeah.
02:14:36
Speaker
Good for all the people that like charged at him or tried to fight back. I know. It makes me do comparison. Not that I know a lot of details because looking into all the school shootings in the US s is very depressing, but like, you know, like they don't have anybody trained and like somehow they get stopped before they kill a bunch of people. It's like crazy that this one had a, you're in a military base where you're all trained soldiers and yet Like he was just so well armed and caught them so off guards that he was able to kill so many before they could get him down. It's so sad. Yeah. I remember one of like the active shooter drills that happened in, it would have been in my high school.
02:15:21
Speaker
um and oh shit I remember doing them sometimes in middle school. um They hadn't, they weren't a thing when I was in elementary, but I remember doing a couple of them in middle school and They were weird. They didn't go as hard. The ones that we did in high school, like they would normally ah find somebody that had like um like one of the teachers or even the principal that had a break. Like they didn't have anything. And when they planned it, um I remember one of the times we were in gym class and
02:16:00
Speaker
what um there's two gyms so to get into the second gym you had to go through the first one so like the plan was like it ended up working out we were in the first gym when the drill got called and so we had to like lock all those doors the teachers did and they like ushered us all through the first like out of the first gym into the second one and then um out of the second gym into like the supply closet so we were behind like four sets of locked doors and oh yeah um they were we were all just like you got to sit on the floor it was quiet there was like 50 of us because it's like two classes and a couple teachers and i remember it was probably 20 minutes to half an hour because they were like
02:16:51
Speaker
it was kind of an assessment to see like all the different classes like how prepared everybody was so they were sending them around and when they got to us i don't remember if they did it anywhere else but they started like banging on the doors from the outside and stuff and we all sort of freaked like a bunch of the people started freaking out um We did that here in Canada. Yeah, they never talked about it Yeah, they did it for our class and I remember them banging on the doors um Yeah, it was like wild we're just like what like we were freaking out yeah, yeah, I mean there was a lot of
02:17:33
Speaker
Yeah, just when it's in the news a lot, I guess, and stuff. Maybe they're like, well, I guess we should just err on the side of caution and traumatize these kids by banging on the doors, too. Yeah. Yeah. um I remember only having to do a couple of them in middle school.
02:17:50
Speaker
um And then, yeah, we did probably one almost every year in high school, the three years. Wow. Yeah. Crazy. But it was only like the one time that I remember them banging on the doors and stuff. And we were, yeah, they start freaking out. It's crazy. Yeah. No, I've never had to do that. I never had anything like that. I don't know if it's, you know, obviously there's like,
02:18:17
Speaker
almost 10 different years between us in school or whatever, but also I was on. I was going to say, when you said we had two gyms, I'm thinking of my elementary where we didn't have one. We had to go down the street. We were so poor. I don't know if we ever would have gone around to drills in New Brunswick, but maybe they do them now. I don't know. They probably do them now.
02:18:41
Speaker
I'll have to ask Rain too if she's had to go through any of that in her classes. Yeah, it would have been right around like that time. ah The first one probably would have been about 2008 or 2009. So yeah, it would have been right around like the time of this case.
02:18:58
Speaker
I think. Oh, jeez. Rain was born in 2007. So I was like, i this was nowhere. I don't remember hearing anything about this. I think you mentioned a couple of things to Pat, questions and stuff when I was doing this case. And I don't think he'd heard of this at all. Yeah. yeah
02:19:19
Speaker
OK, yeah, so there. Yeah, like I said, there was some more. after Steph hit by four the shots fired at him his son was paralyzed i think from the chest down actually i broke the waist down but i believe that's not correct arraigned on july 20th 2011 um took a little while charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
02:19:59
Speaker
ah So, you ever hear about people being like court marshaled or whatever?
02:20:06
Speaker
that Yeah, um I don't know for sure what it means but I have heard of it. Yes, I've only ever heard like he was court-martialed or like kind of in that context but ah basically it's just apparently tried before a military court is what that means. Okay.
02:20:29
Speaker
Yeah. So I learned that like his court martial started on August 7th, 21 of the three, I think I mean 2013, a little typo there. Um, yeah. So a court martial is a trial conducted in a military court. Um, due to the multiple first degree murder charges, he would be getting at least at the very least life in prison, but death penalty was on the table.
02:20:56
Speaker
And at the start of his court-martial, he declared, I am the shooter to the panel of 13 senior officers conducting a trial. And they responded, no shit. Right. We all know. I read that and had to include it. I'm like, you are insane. ah Yeah. Jesus. Fenrir, you and your big butt open in my door. He he went on to say,
02:21:24
Speaker
The evidence will clearly show that I am the shooter. The evidence presented with this trial will show one side. The evidence will also show that I'm on the wrong side, then I switched sides." Yeah, buddy, that's why we don't let you represent yourself, because it's stupid. You say stupid things. Then I switched sides? I don't even know. Like, to the good side? That doesn't even make sense. I've wondered if that's what he meant.
02:21:52
Speaker
and sounds like it because he said I'm on the wrong side right and then I switched sides yeah what does it mean what does it mean huh that's bizarre yeah my dog just fully opened the door with his butt I thought I had it closed but let me know if you can hear any interference
02:22:18
Speaker
Staff Sergeant Alonzo Lunsford shot seven times that day, was unimpressed, as they would say on one crime. Yeah. One of several victims who took the stand that day to testify, he talked about his horrific experience at the murders that day. Quote, it was a state of panic, Lunsford said. A civilian doctor, Michael Cahill, tried to hit Hassan with a chair to stop the shooting. Hassan shot him dead.
02:22:48
Speaker
Soldiers tried to flee or take cover inside the processing center as Hassan fired dozens of shots. As Lunsford was checking behind him, Major Hassan is turning the weapon on me, he said. He has a laser on his weapon and it goes across my line of sight and I blink. In that time, he discharges his weapon. The first round, I'm hit in the head.
02:23:11
Speaker
A second shot caught Lunsford in the back. He decided to play dead for a while before changing his mind and deciding to run for the door. He made it out of the building, but was shot five more times outside, he testified. Jesus. Right? That's wild, being shot seven times, including in the head and in the back. Right? How? And you being able to play dead and then run away.
02:23:40
Speaker
No, he's good, buddy. He's just sitting there now. Sorry.
02:23:48
Speaker
um
02:23:51
Speaker
Hassan continued shooting at Lunsford, even as he he was. ah Yeah. that Yeah. it is Yeah. He just keeps shooting at him. Hassan continued shooting at Lunsford, even as he was receiving first aid outside the processing center before police arrived.
02:24:10
Speaker
um insane you'll be glad to know he was found guilty on all charges and sentenced to death on august 23rd 2013 well i don't know if you'd be happy about that part that's controversial death penalty but
02:24:30
Speaker
I can't see you. I would sentence him to be, I don't know, strapped to a bed to live in an empty room and stare at the ceiling with no form of entertainment for the rest of his life. Just stare at a cracked ceiling. Yeah, solitary confinement forever. You can be fed through a feeding tube. Fuck you. Right? I don't know.
02:24:56
Speaker
nothing that i could find had his death date so he may still be on death row damn i know this was like 10 years ago now that he was sentenced i mean it takes a long time they do tend to keep them in prison for quite a while before they get executed so true um fun fatal fact no at the time of his sentencing he became just the sixth person on military death row at the time Wow. Yeah. Um, there was a lot of, uh, like his motivations and some motives and stuff that obviously were found out post, you know, like in the investigation, um, all on the Wikipedia, uh, his possible motives, you know, there was his imminent deployment, his, his stress with the, um,
02:25:57
Speaker
soldier stories that were coming back from war.
Radicalization and Ideological Conflict
02:26:02
Speaker
He's giving away his furniture, he'd also given away copies of the Quran prior to the attack, and he prayed with a Muslim officer the morning of the attack who said that his demeanor was untroubled, but the officer also does not discount the notion that the attack was motivated by a sort of religiously like religious radicalism.
02:26:21
Speaker
um yeah it definitely seems like his perception or his way of thinking had warped to a certain point yeah i put that like in my opinion he couldn't seem to rectify his work with his faith and there was things where he said he couldn't kind of come to terms with like if as a soldier he had to kill another muslim and stuff like that okay i'm like dude i don't know you signed up for it but Oh shit. Mother fucking thing. It fucking booted. Yeah.
02:27:05
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. No, I was just saying, I think I was like, dude, you signed up for it. I don't know. Yeah. I mean.
02:27:16
Speaker
It's not a reason. It seems weird if you're taking that stance and stuff that he would, you know what I mean, like target those around him instead of just himself. You know what I mean? It's just very limited thinking of the way of Well, I don't agree with this, like, war anymore, so now I'm gonna kill my fellow soldiers who are set up to fight it, just like I am. Like, what? That's not gonna stop anything, you know? Yeah. Like, a poet you can be maybe a, what do they call it when they're like a dissenter and they don't want to go to war and you're like a conscientious objector and you're like, no. Yeah, fuck you. I'm not gonna go to war. But this is not the same.
02:28:08
Speaker
but i think the first step would be talking to somebody about it telling them that you're having problems um yeah stuff like Cause it sounds like when they, they kind of talked about stuff, they said, Oh yeah, he had been acting strange at work and that kind of stuff that some people had noticed. So I'm sure if he had come to them about stuff, they'd be like, Oh, this isn't coming out of nowhere. And other people have noticed this. like No. And that's always the thing is, what can we do before the fact? Because yeah they he did notice he was stressed out about what he was hearing in his role as a psychiatrist for soldiers. And.
02:28:49
Speaker
yeah Also, which I haven't told you yet, but he became all like kind of on the radar because the FBI was monitoring this imam guy's emails and he was um Another Muslim, his name was Anwar al-Laki and they like at one time just had him on their list as a moderate Muslim, but at one point they were like, no, he's more of a radical cleric. So like they knew that he was emailing Hassan and they were like, oh, let's look at these and see if they're dangerous. But they were ultimately like, no, he's just kind of asking mundane religious questions about his life and being a
02:29:36
Speaker
Muslim soldier and they weren't militant, quote unquote, in nature, they were more about spiritual gu guidance. So they, you know, deemed them as like, not dangerous. But it's tough. Watching him then if they didn't notice he bought a semi automatic weapon, like,
02:29:57
Speaker
right arrang You're like, oh, we're forre watching and monitoring this person. Oh, they just bought an automatic weapon. Oh, maybe we should look into that further. Right. Or they were at least monitoring the person he was emailing a little bit more closely. So it's, it's tough because he did clearly respect this imam person of this other mosque.
02:30:23
Speaker
but this person denies ever urging him or anyone to do violence, ah yet other people's, like an undersecretary of Homeland Security named Charles Hawley said that he targets US Muslims with radical online lectures, encouraging terrorist attacks from his new home in Yemen. And that was about this guy he was corresponding with. love And another man like this Bruce guy was like emailing a known Alec a known Al-Qaeda sympathizer should have set off alarm bells so like too little too late but they're like gosh maybe we should have taken more of an interest in this correspondence yeah it's wild how many how many of like the mass shooter type things that you
02:31:18
Speaker
you look at and like 99% of them have a whole trail of red flags leading up to the event and it's like well like yeah hindsight's 2020 totally it always seems so much easier looking back yeah yeah But still, yeah, you're right. Like the trail of flag. But it's like even like single, single murders, that kind of stuff. And last somebody is like a career criminal. It's like a one off thing. And a lot of times people don't see any of that coming yet. The mass shooters seem to almost always have like such a long trail of stuff leading up to it. Like a simmering till they reach their boiling point. Yeah. Yeah.
02:32:00
Speaker
Like it's, I don't know, it's very weird to me that they seem to have a trail um and a lot of other people that are doing crimes also involving killing people or kill killing like single people, that kind of stuff. It's like a lot more out of nowhere where they don't have as much of a thing. Yeah, it can be like hardly anything to go off of. Yeah, it just seems weird to me that like,
02:32:30
Speaker
Yeah, because when you put it all together, he's got some emails, then they also started looking because, you know, like I said, after the fact hindsight 2020, they can start looking at his internet posts, where he's saying some suspicious and concerning things about his opinions on like suicide bombers, where he wrote in. Yeah, yeah. Definitely that.
02:32:53
Speaker
not a great look for him to say in May of that year 2009 that a suicide bomber is it was something like they're essentially the same as a soldier falling on a grenade to save his brothers or his fellow soldiers which I cannot wrap my head around I think it's like a sacrifice for the greater good of those around you or something like... Yeah, by killing some other people. It's like, okay. Yeah, he definitely thought it was more of but a noble cause or whatever. Yeah, I think it's like...
02:33:37
Speaker
people that haven't been radicalized just like can't quite wrap their head around like how somebody can I don't know I think it goes back to like viewing certain groups of people as not quite the right kind of people anymore and therefore like their deaths don't mean the same thing as like certain other groups deaths would so that oh yeah if I kill a bunch of these people like that that it means I'm saving these people so these people don't matter or deaths don't matter as much if these people are getting saved. Yeah. Yeah. And like it's somehow discounting some lives is worth not as much as others are or justified or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of like him targeting the military people that were on the base as opposed to the civilians on the base because they hadn't wronged him. The civilians hadn't wronged him. They weren't going to be fighting against him.
02:34:35
Speaker
his people or his country or whatever. Which is just like, bro, but you but you are signed up for the same thing. What do you know? It begs so many questions and you're like, yeah, you were smart. You're a psychiatrist, but I can't figure out how your brain made you think that was OK.
02:34:57
Speaker
um There's like basically the rest is just like.
Terrorism vs. Workplace Violence Debate
02:35:03
Speaker
Yeah, there's. Um, people calling it the worst terrorist attack on us soil since September 11th. But then also if the military called it a terrorist attack, they don't really have that term. They don't, they were calling it like a workplace violence incident, but then the victims and their families were like, well, that doesn't give us as much benefits as if you said it was actually like something
02:35:28
Speaker
where they could be like awarded a Purple Heart like when you're hurt in battle. It was like a whole like all this controversy and like, well I mean, it seems like it's really mostly motivated. Yeah. And everything. So I would say, yeah, that that sounds more like terrorist attack than Like, right? like if you're Yeah, I'm like like, I'm like, I think there's, and all that kind of stuff that didn normally doesn't matter in the workplace. No, they're just forgetting the domestic part. Cause when it's like somebody who's your own citizen and they're committing an act of terror or hate crime or whatever, you're like, no, that's domestic terrorism, bud.
02:36:10
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And it can be perpetrated by people who were born and raised in the US. That's right, as he was. Yeah, just as much as people that have immigrated over their families. No, exactly. And like, yeah, I think in the end, I even wrote too much. It's just, it's all on there. The fallout, the like,
02:36:36
Speaker
you know eventually they fought for them to get some sort of Purple Heart designation so that they could get more benefits for the families, which I'm like, good, change whatever wording you need to just to get them like yeah the benefits they need. and and and just like I was like to Pat today, I'm like, I don't think I can read any more about this. This Wikipedia page goes on forever.
02:37:01
Speaker
there's like yeah the 2011 something plot. I said there's the 2014 shootings, which I said, I don't even know what that was. I didn't have time to get into it. But like the fact that it has multiple on its Wikipedia page, like these shootings, those shootings, and then like also it had another scandal at this, um the fort.
02:37:25
Speaker
the Fort Hood base that was, um if you can believe it, a sexual assault prevention officer on the base, a guy named Gregory McQueen, who was dishonorably discharged in March 2015 after having been convicted of organizing a prostitution ring as a sexual assault prevention officer. Oh my God. I was like,
02:37:48
Speaker
I'm glad they changed the name of it now. It's not called Fort Hood anymore after the Confederate General John Bell Hood. it's it's ah This is in Texas, by the way, which took me like my whole research to figure out that this was all in Texas. um but oh That makes a little more sense about the guns now. Oh, And finally, in 2023, it was renamed as Fort Cavassos.
02:38:17
Speaker
um along with other ones that were renamed by the naming commission, so presumably ones that were named after for like Confederate generals and stuff. So now it's named after General Richard E. Cavassos, a native Texan and the US Army's first Hispanic four-star general. So that's kind of fun.
02:38:34
Speaker
that's nice plus so now there can be no more fort hood shootings because it's not called fort hood anymore yeah they can busmerch that poor hispanic rule's name instead Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Or I'm hoping that just, yeah, their bad karma is just done now, maybe. Geez, that's like getting rid of the 13th aisle on a plane or something. It's like, really? Have you changed anything? If you've had three mass shootings at one military base, maybe that base needs to figure their shit out.
02:39:10
Speaker
I know I kept thinking like maybe they should just close it but I guess it's the same thing as saying like there's so many school showings shootings in America maybe they should just close their schools like I don't know it's not really a solution yeah oh but we don't know what is the solution so on that note no hope you enjoyed all that for um dan remember remembrance day veterans day week yes uh yeah yeah no it is good like i like that yeah it is i like to like read the names of victims and things where i'm like i didn't even know this happened so like now at least i feel like i have the collective knowledge of
02:39:57
Speaker
Well, going forward as humans, let's know these mistakes so we don't repeat them if we can. Right? Yeah, absolutely. That's the only way I think things will ever get better is the more people talk about like tragedies and the signs and stuff to look out for. But in a way of like, of loving, like, let's come together instead of let's Yeah, divisive and go apart because that's how No, it needs to be focused on like helping people and like when you notice the signs of somebody's like demeanor changing talk trying to talk to them about it or
02:40:37
Speaker
anything because that's all somebody needs is just somebody to talk to them and yeah just say oh I'm having a really bad day here's some stuff and everything even if you can't fix it or anything most of it's just listening to the person and being like oh well like things will get better or that kind of stuff or make sure your psychiatrists have their own psychiatrist to talk to. Yeah. Yeah, like their little Kenneth brains don't get overloaded. No, that sounds ah demeaning. But you know what I mean? Like he needed help. And he maybe if he had got it, this could have been prevented for sure. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. Well, damn, tell me about it. This will be a long episode. I don't know how we're gonna realize. You're so
02:41:32
Speaker
but i oh shit I think mine was like an over an hour okay and then your first part was over ah ah about an hour and then this one's gonna be about 40 minutes almost. That's how I felt trying to edit the last one all as one episode. I was like wait we recorded in different parts and now I feel like I have three parts to edit and Anyway, as it turned out, it's like by the time you edit it all down, it was like an hour and a an hour or something for years. And then I was like, Oh, okay. And then I ended up mine. It's like 45 minutes. Yeah. So we'll see. But well, damn, I can't remember what did we, what did we pick for next week or the week after? right If this gets split, who knows? Ooh, psychics. Yes. Yeah. A bit of a lighter episode.
02:42:24
Speaker
Should be. Let's hope less murders anyway. yeah Maybe, maybe some frauds. It's possible. Some fraudsters. you That's always interesting. You're my kid muttering to herself. To tune in and check it out next time. Do it. Do it, do it, do it. We love you. Keep it cryptic.
02:42:54
Speaker
Let us know what you want to hear and yeah. That's all I got. Yeah.