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Episode 19 What's the Worst That Could Happen? A conversation with Callie Murray
16 Plays15 days ago
Callie Murray is not a clean LinkedIn narrative. She'll tell you that herself. She's got an HR company, a historical fiction novel just released, and a family that went from three kids to seven overnight when she and her husband David finalized the adoption of a sibling group of four through foster care. All in the same season. All at the same time. And somehow she still showed up for a TV interview before this podcast.
In this episode, Callie and I dig into what it actually costs to create something deeply personal and hand it to the world to rate with stars, why balance is a myth but order is everything, what it looked like to torpedo your entire carefully arranged life in the most beautiful way possible, and why a book launch party feels unfair when your friends are quietly surviving things nobody ever throws a party for.
Callie also shares the question her late father-in-law Bill used to ask that drove her absolutely crazy. And now she uses it on her own kids. What's the worst that could happen? Not to scare you. To free you.
So here's what I want to leave you with. There's something you've been wanting to try. Something that doesn't fit neatly into your LinkedIn bio or make sense to anyone at a dinner party. What if you just asked yourself, what's the worst that could happen? And actually followed the thread all the way to the end?
Social Links:
- Website: www.callimurray.com
- Book Page: www.callimurray.com/book
- The Brunswick: Available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, and Bookshop.org
- Instagram: calliemurray
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Callie Murray
00:00:00
Callie Murray
Thank you.
00:00:01
Carl Lubbe
Hey friends, we're back for another lovely episode and hopefully even lovelier questions on one great question with the, how would I describe Callie Murray? I was going to launch into some like long bio, but we were actually just chatting before we jumped on here that she's currently being wrangled by her seven children after being on a network television interview. and the altitude difference of that from professional space to hunkered in a corner of her room. And you never know where you're going to find successful people in 2026 based on the ability to zoom. So would love to welcome Kelly Murray to the podcast.
00:00:38
Callie Murray
Thank you. I love that.
00:00:41
Carl Lubbe
So Callie, I was thinking about this the other day. You and I met, as we would say in South Africa, dogs years ago. so ages ago Norcross, which is where your new book is located, at a little coffee shop.
00:00:54
Carl Lubbe
It was something, I think the Northern Star or something like that.
00:00:58
Callie Murray
That's right. It's changed names since, but yep.
00:00:58
Carl Lubbe
That's right. Yeah, yeah. And i don't i couldn't remember. And so maybe you can jog my memory. out don't know if you remember this evening. You were promoting a new thing that you were doing in Atlanta. And I couldn't remember if I was a guest or a musical guest because I i would play around town. And I you know met Aaron and you and a couple of other people. And just remember ah walking into this space and immediately going, I don't know how somebody has made what was a lovely homey coffee shop.
00:01:27
Carl Lubbe
But you walked in instantly and it felt like you knew everybody and I knew nobody. And was just ah curious for you how you've been able to kind of cultivate those spaces.
00:01:32
Callie Murray
Oh. ah
00:01:37
Carl Lubbe
And if you remember that evening.
Callie's Entrepreneurial Journey Begins
00:01:38
Callie Murray
That is funny. Okay, that's ancient. You're right.
00:01:40
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:01:41
Callie Murray
That was when I was starting what like i guess was my first business. It was photography. And I was like, I mean, i think I was college dropout age somewhere in there.
00:01:52
Callie Murray
And um yeah, that's so funny.
00:01:52
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:01:55
Callie Murray
i haven't thought about that night in a long time. I think I would credit the feeling of that night just to good people. Like I think we just, we're just really blessed to have really great people that are for whatever reason, always coming and being a part of my weird stuff.
00:02:10
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. and And when you say weird stuff, this is the thing that I love is... Obviously, I've named a company, Curiosity, because I love endlessly curious people who show up even when they're powerful and they're older and they have some acumen who still show up as the eight-year-old version of themselves. And I think in every endeavor that I've ever come around with you, there's always been incredible acumen, whether it's the photography or the event stuff through the Nut Wedding or ah you building online presences or now the book. It's always going like, oh,
00:02:42
Carl Lubbe
You're always at nine or 10 out of 10 in terms of the capacity. But there's this deep sense of curiosity that goes, yeah, but couldn't this be more fun? Couldn't this be more whimsical, especially with something like the not wedding? So would love to know from you, where do you attribute that level of curiosity to?
00:03:00
Callie Murray
Wow, good
Influences and Early Ventures
00:03:01
Callie Murray
question. You know, it's funny, my, so it's just me and my brother, and he makes a living in golf comedy. So that is his. And then I made a living for 10 years in fake weddings. I had a fake wedding company, which we could talk about if you want. And so people are often when they find out we're related or like, what did your parents do?
00:03:22
Callie Murray
And, um, and so I think I would attribute a lot to my parents. My mom was a pharmacist, so nothing crazy. My dad was a builder, but I do think it was a mix of, they are very creative people. And we grew up in a culture of just like, yeah, you can do it, try it.
00:03:38
Callie Murray
And so like even this fake wedding company, I mean, I was, yeah, college dropout trying to launch my photography business. And I think I just had that privilege safety net of like, yeah, give this a shot.
00:03:51
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, yeah, what an amazing thing. And you're so right too, because I've been fortunate enough to work alongside Aaron. We did a pecan campaign in the Southeast for the pecan growers of Georgia.
00:04:05
Carl Lubbe
And I just remember when Aaron and I sat down and started hashing out ideas, he would just come out with one liner after one liner after one liner. And I like, I was just along for the ride with this incredibly talented person who again remains endlessly curious.
00:04:18
Carl Lubbe
And so now if anybody's curious, you can go follow St. Andre and Big Bird Agency are Aaron's things.
00:04:24
Callie Murray
Yeah.
00:04:25
Carl Lubbe
Actually, I was just, was just messaging him on Instagram earlier because he's making a new video for his favorite football team, which is Arsenal and their victory a couple of days ago.
00:04:36
Carl Lubbe
So we go back and forth on that, but. Yeah, it's fascinating, like you said, when you're raised in an environment where people are like, yeah, try it, fail forward, like see what you learn, figure that thing out. And so I'd be curious, you know, if we're talking about eight year old Callie in that environment where you've got parents who, like you said, have fairly prescriptive jobs, like literally a pharmacist writing prescriptions and a builder following the prescriptions of a building code.
Callie's Current Life and Family
00:05:02
Carl Lubbe
What would that eight year old version of you be excited about for the version of you that's here today?
00:05:09
Callie Murray
Yeah, ph if I think truly eighth grade, what is that second or eight, eight years old, second grade, maybe?
00:05:14
Carl Lubbe
Eight years old. Yeah.
00:05:15
Callie Murray
um Yeah, i had a, i started a magazine company and I called it ELAC online, which does not make any sense. ELAC was Cali spelled backwards online. I think the internet was becoming a thing, but I literally, nothing nothing about it was online. i I made a magazine and would copy it on my dad's Xerox and I would sell it at school.
00:05:39
Callie Murray
And so I think eight-year-old Cali would be like, yeah, we saw this coming. Yeah.
00:05:47
Carl Lubbe
That's incredible. And so, but if you would have now take eight-year-old Callie and put her in your shoes today, you got seven kids running around the house. You've got this amazing book you've just released. you You've been in these spaces. What would she be most excited about or in awe of that you get to do in this season of your life?
00:06:06
Callie Murray
Yeah, Carla, I'm hearing it's going in and out a little bit.
00:06:09
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, sorry.
00:06:09
Callie Murray
Are you there with me?
00:06:10
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, I'm i'm here.
00:06:11
Callie Murray
Can you? Okay.
00:06:12
Carl Lubbe
Yep, I can hear you. So I'll i'll pose the the question one more time.
00:06:16
Callie Murray
Okay. Let me know if gets
00:06:18
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, no, it's great. um That's, you know, the beauty of all things Zoom and internet these days. I think it just catches up at the end and does its thing. So either way, having fun. um Yeah, if the eight-year-old version of Callie got to be um in your shoes today, got to walk alongside you for the day, what would she be most excited about?
00:06:38
Carl Lubbe
Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we get to do this thing. Or hold on, we did what? Like, what's the thing she would be in awe
00:06:43
Callie Murray
Yeah, you know, our life right now is weird. um I have an HR company that's like my main gig and that's an entrepreneurial venture, but um it's like there's nothing flashy about it, but it's just a good business. I've got this historical fiction book I just released.
00:07:02
Callie Murray
And, and I think that feels like eight-year-old Callie would get real excited about that. Um, and then our family, we're kind of, I feel like we've kind of followed our, what's felt like this nudge and calling in our life and we've just adopted. um, and so I think eight-year-old Callie would be like, great.
00:07:19
Callie Murray
You're,
00:07:22
Callie Murray
oh, so sorry, Carl. I'm getting, it's saying I'm like dropping.
00:07:23
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:07:25
Callie Murray
i know I can try it. Let me try and move into another spot.
00:07:28
Carl Lubbe
ah You're welcome to if you want to. Again, this is, I mean, we're not fussy and I think it'll all catch up in the Washington Post.
00:07:33
Callie Murray
Let me try. i think the kids just left.
00:07:36
Carl Lubbe
So this will be more fun anyway of going, hey, this is real. We're just having a real chat. We're not trying to be polished on anything.
00:07:42
Callie Murray
Okay, great. All right.
00:07:44
Carl Lubbe
So please but don't be stressed on my account.
00:07:45
Callie Murray
I think the kids just went. Okay. okay We're going to try this. You there? Okay.
00:07:50
Carl Lubbe
I'm here. I can hear you.
00:07:52
Callie Murray
you want me to repeat any of that or Okay.
00:07:54
Carl Lubbe
ah Yeah, you ah we can queue up the question one more time. What's the eight-year-old version of Callie excited to walk alongside you today about
00:08:04
Callie Murray
Yeah, I think um our life right now doesn't make a ton of sense on paper. And we've got, I've got this HR company that is kind of like my main job that I've gotten to build.
00:08:15
Callie Murray
Nothing flashy about it, but it's just a good business. And then I've got this historical fiction novel and that's maybe more of the flashy part, but does not track at all with HR company.
00:08:26
Callie Murray
And then we just got to adopt on the personal side. And so I think there would just be a sense of like, oh, you're getting to do it.
00:08:30
Carl Lubbe
Yay. Yeah.
00:08:35
Callie Murray
like You're getting to do the things, even if it really doesn't make any sense. i am I am not a clean LinkedIn narrative. I feel like, you know, you meet, you see people at at parties and it's like, what's going on? And I don't feel like I have a very clean, short answer to give them, but I feel like we're getting to we're getting to do it.
00:08:53
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think honestly, that's the the lovely thing about you and David and the life that you guys are building is it is the sense of it doesn't have to be linear because I i think there's ah a myth in that it is ever linear.
00:09:09
Carl Lubbe
It's kind of we have a conversation in my work at Curiosity about the difference between order versus balance and that balance is a myth.
00:09:16
Callie Murray
Mm-hmm.
00:09:18
Carl Lubbe
um And you can quickly kind of prove it right. If I asked you Who are five humans on the planet who you really admire the way they handle their marriage, their parenting, their work, their friendship, their self-care, and that they're doing that thing at a 10 out of 10 at all times?
Managing Life's Chaos and Balance
00:09:36
Carl Lubbe
you're like, no, like, I don't know. it Like, I take little pieces of lots of different people and I admire them. But there's nobody I've ever met that's living in perfect balance all the time. But you can order your life in such a way that goes, oh, here's the HR thing.
00:09:50
Carl Lubbe
Here's the book thing. Here's the kid thing. Here's the marriage thing. And how today does the order work? And how do I become intentional about those things?
00:09:56
Callie Murray
Okay.
00:09:57
Carl Lubbe
And so I think the beauty, especially in the age in which we live, in which I hear quite a lot of people talk about wanting to write books, so much so that I've got you know friends and a guy in town, Joe Bunting, and another friend out of town, Jeff Coins, who help people like write their books because it's like, oh I've got this burning thing to say.
00:10:16
Carl Lubbe
But they're like, I'm an accountant or I'm a dentist or I'm in between jobs and I don't know if I can. you know And so for you to go, adoption and ah HR company and book. And it's not a going, i have to have it all and it needs to be really polished and pretty. It's just going, there's permission to fail forward and try new things in the midst of other busy things.
00:10:38
Callie Murray
Yeah, for sure.
00:10:38
Carl Lubbe
So.
00:10:39
Callie Murray
And I think there's a cost to it. You know, like this is something David and I've said multiple times this year is like, we are we are trying something um kind of ridiculous.
00:10:49
Callie Murray
And it's not all that we even signed up for the timing of all of this or, yeah, we didn't sign up for all the hard parts right now.
00:10:59
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:10:59
Callie Murray
But um but you have to kind of recognize that like, Yeah, it means we are going to be exhausted or at times or things will be messy at times and um kind of have to hold that intention.
00:11:12
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. If you don't mind me asking with the two of you, when you're holding the tension of that, how do you adjust the tension when it feels like either the book or the HR, his thing, or one of the kids is going through something? Is that like an intentional cadence? Is it just, hey, I noticed this thing and now let's chat about that. Is there a ah an active like thinking through that or is it more responding to it?
00:11:35
Callie Murray
Man, I wish there was like a very clear, active, proactive thing here. But i guess the honest answer is last summer we we had a sibling group of four kiddos join our family through foster care, and they're the coolest. We got to finalize the adoption this past week.
00:11:54
Callie Murray
ah But as you can imagine, it's kind of a torpedo to everybody's life.
00:11:54
Carl Lubbe
Hey, congrats.
00:11:58
Callie Murray
And so David and I have talked a lot this year about how there's the things like, you know, the book or work or, um, there's things. And then there's like the deep existential, how your soul's processing stuff. And I feel like this kind of was a torpedo to all the things. And we had to like, we've had to really face a lot of the deeper stuff before we can ever talk about, processes or um,
00:12:27
Callie Murray
you know, how to make the most and of time and all of that, that all feels like we'll get there one day. So um yeah, I mean, I think the more honest messier answer is we've had a so many deep, deep conversations and counseling and talking with friends and all of that.
00:12:45
Callie Murray
And I think maybe in the future, we'll get to great processes and and how we're going to maximize everything. But right now that's kind of where we've been.
00:12:54
Carl Lubbe
Oh. Well, I think in the midst of this, obviously it's insanely admirable to welcome four new stunning humans into your world and go from, you know, a family with three kids to seven.
00:13:07
Carl Lubbe
So you go from, you know, five to nine sort of thing over overnight. And obviously with lots of turmoil, because I have lots of friends also in the foster system. And I just know what a toll that is both in and out of the house and and out of the emotions.
00:13:20
Carl Lubbe
And then when it gets finalized, it's like, you know, sigh of relief. So we're celebrating that. And also it's like, oh, so, okay, how do we carry this now? Because there's a sense of permanence.
00:13:28
Callie Murray
Thank you.
00:13:29
Carl Lubbe
So. Like you said, endless endless hope and turmoil in the midst of all that. Which leads to our next question, which we we want to ask in...
00:13:41
Carl Lubbe
the Instagram LinkedIn age in which we live, that it's very easy to see success at a distance. And like what you talked about going to a you know a cocktail party and they're like, oh, their their thing feels very linear and the edges are done. Well, you have a fairly linear, beautiful new thing. And that, you know, this is Callie's new book here and stunningly well done and would feel like, oh, that's the marker of success. Not only is it stunning artwork, you have the other book on my desk here.
00:14:09
Carl Lubbe
is Alan Levi's Theo of Golden. And he wrote a lovely little thing in here in which he said of the book, it is a delight and a beautiful bit of art.
00:14:19
Carl Lubbe
By the way, I love reading things by really great writers. He's like, could you have said a nicer thing?
00:14:23
Callie Murray
I know.
00:14:24
Carl Lubbe
A lovely, a beautiful bit of art. I really want somebody to say that about something I write one day. um And so as you process something like that, I mean, this is like the win.
00:14:35
Carl Lubbe
Anybody else would look at that and be like, oh my gosh, Kelly's an author. She's going on TV and talking about it. She's got these big release parties, one of which my wife came to. That's where we got the books, I think, so autographing that for her. Yeah.
00:14:48
Carl Lubbe
But there's always a cost to that thing, right? We're talking about the HR business and the marriage and the kids and all these things. When you look at the cost of maybe writing a book, we'll just try and be specific to that.
00:15:00
Carl Lubbe
And, you know, we're all believing in your community that it's going to be a massive success and we're going to push, you know, as much as we can behind it because it's a story worth telling and worth reading. What do you think that that might've cost you?
00:15:13
Carl Lubbe
And were you to know that when you started it, however long ago, would you have gone, I'll so i'll still sign up for that that fee.
00:15:21
Callie Murray
Eunice, great question, which I know you're good at. um i would say there's a couple different types of cost. So there's like the time cost, right? Which when I started this book, my husband was training for a marathon and I pitched him on, could I train to write a novel?
00:15:36
Callie Murray
And so that's where we set we we set these blocks of time where I am going to, this is where I'm going to write and I'm going listen to podcasts and I'm goingnna study. And that's just kind of how we prioritize it.
00:15:48
Callie Murray
which was great for a couple years. And then when I signed a book deal, I become ah subject to somebody else's timeline. And i have adored my publisher, but they've got a thing going, you know what i mean? And you just kind of like jump into their wheel. And so when they slot me for a May release, we didn't know that I would have seven children.
00:16:08
Callie Murray
and that would be our very first May, what you know, Maycember, Maymageddon, whatever, with his seven children.
00:16:15
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, Maimageddon is right. Jeez.
00:16:16
Callie Murray
yeah And, um, and so all of a sudden my very tidy here are my training hours gets blown out of the water. So I think time is definitely a cost. I think there is the emotional cost of taking something so personal, which, I mean, Alan said it art, like it's such a personal thing. There's a lot of my story in that book, even though it's historical fiction, And, and then just handing it over to the world and saying, how many stars do you want to give it? And so, um, I think that was a cost. I also, i had this, you know, wedding business we've mentioned, and I really struggled through that whole decade. Anytime we would get feedback, I would take it very personally. And, and so now I'm walking into this project.
00:17:03
Callie Murray
I mean, that it wasn't personal feedback. It was about a business.
Releasing a Personal Book
00:17:07
Callie Murray
But now this is Callie Murray on the cover. And I like, um I'm having to walk into this going, I know this is going to be hard for me.
00:17:15
Callie Murray
and um And so some of it's guardrails. You know, my husband said, don't you dare read reviews. But there's also just kind of knowing that as art is, it's subjective.
00:17:28
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:17:28
Callie Murray
And so anyway, there's the emotional cost. Yeah. And then I think, you know, I think like you mentioned it, social media is not real life. And so you're going to put out there, these are the wins.
00:17:41
Callie Murray
This is what we want you to know. But then there's all these undercurrents. It's like we talked about the changing altitudes of um here's a here's a interview with the TV station. But here's this really hard relational dynamic I'm working through that I'll never tell a TV station about because that's not appropriate.
00:17:59
Callie Murray
And so I think there's just um
00:18:00
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:18:02
Callie Murray
Yeah, I think there's some exhaustion in that for sure. But i mean, that's life.
00:18:08
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah. And for somebody else, you know, who is interested in authoring something, would you look back on this and go, oh that was the the bill up until this point has been at least worth it. Who knows what happens with the book going forward and, you know, all the Amazon reviews and all that sort of stuff. But up to this point, do you look at that and go, man, I'm really I'm really glad I took a swing on that.
00:18:32
Callie Murray
Yeah, totally worth it. Yeah, totally worth it. And then, yeah, you mentioned it too, the the book, you have a thing to hold. Like there is a release date. It is a physical thing. My sweet community here threw this launch party for us on Saturday. And you show up and it's color coordinated and they have a giant book printed. And and i on the way there, I just thought there's so many people in this community that we could be celebrating like you know, they've, they've raised twins. They made it through having twin newborns and like, they've built this company and they've navigated hard things with their parents and like, but a book, like it has the color palette. it has It's public. And so, um, yeah, I think, I think it's totally been worth it. Um, it feels unfair sometimes. Like, I feel like, I guess what I mean is I feel like anything,
00:19:26
Callie Murray
hard and anything worth celebrating, we would all say it's worth it. This just feels a little bit more public, if that makes sense. You know?
00:19:33
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, absolutely. Well, one of the things I've always loved and respected about you, though, is the ability to gather other humans and to highlight them and to you know put a spotlight on the hard things they've gone through and the things that they've powered through to accomplish. And I think that's also, I mean, a testament to even the book because the whole theme is around that. Right. You've got this Norcross, Georgia thing. You've got, you know, World War Two. You've got Foster. And and these stories are about people living through really hard things. i was actually just even yesterday.
00:20:06
Carl Lubbe
at a bookstore looking at, because my family were headed to Oxford in a couple of weeks. And I wanted to like, hey, I haven't read about Tolkien and Lewis in a while.
00:20:17
Carl Lubbe
And they talked about this idea that all of their literature was born out of their time on the front lines during World War i
00:20:23
Callie Murray
Mm-hmm.
00:20:24
Carl Lubbe
and having gone through these things and then creating friendships and groups. And it feels strange to me that, you know, a hundred years later, I'm going, how do I build friendships? How do I, how do I invest in my friendships in my community? Like you said, your lovely little community in ways it goes, it could build legacy for a century afterwards where we look at Lewis and Tolkien and the rest of the the people around the Inklings and go, isn't that something just so worth having that even though two of them were predominantly more notable than the others in terms of recognition.
00:20:58
Carl Lubbe
All of them were lovely humans who were doing hard things and Lewis and Tolkien wanted to celebrate them. And I think this is an ability that you have and have had, whether it was in the photography or the not wedding or even the HR thing going, how do we see people in the workplace and now into the book? And so I, you know, just laud the fact that you would even concern yourself in the midst of a book launch going, how do I celebrate my friend who's coming through twins when they're going, you wrote a
Introduction to 'The Brunswick'
00:21:23
Carl Lubbe
book. Like, that's just a lovely perspective to have on this. And so I would love to ask, like, you know, for those who haven't come across it, and again, lovely little
00:21:33
Carl Lubbe
plug for such a stunning cover. I like I want to live in that house is I think the first thing that most people do is they like, oh, what a beautiful place. um Can you tell us um more about the book?
00:21:45
Callie Murray
Yeah, totally. So the Brunswick is historical fiction. It's 1939, set predominantly in Norcross, Georgia, which is the little town where I live, just north of Atlanta.
00:21:58
Callie Murray
And it is a story of a girl, Cora Cain, who yeah is asked to use her family's old hotel, the Brunswick, to house Jewish refugee children.
00:22:08
Callie Murray
So the war is brewing overseas. It's not quite war yet, but it is there's Nazi occupation. Things are not good. And, um and so yeah, core is this is where Cora finds herself and there's all these layers to the story, but that's, that's the premise.
00:22:26
Carl Lubbe
Amazing. And so somebody picking up who goes, I love historical fiction, what might that surprise them? And for somebody who's like, I'm not a big historical fiction person, what would attract them?
00:22:38
Callie Murray
Yeah, so I made a list before I started writing about what do I want, what are my what do I love about my favorite books and what do I want this book to be? And um I love like the banter and the tension and modern day rom-coms, but I also love the historical facts and setting and depth of historical fiction.
00:22:53
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:22:58
Callie Murray
And so I would say if you're not a historical fiction fan, I do like, there's there's some lightness to it, some romance, some of that that I i think you might like. um But to my historical fiction fans, yeah, it's it's a new take on World War II fiction.
00:23:14
Callie Murray
i think the cover even says, what is it? A World War II novel of the American South.
00:23:19
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:23:19
Callie Murray
It's, I think, kind of confusing because you're like, what?
00:23:23
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:23:23
Callie Murray
Yeah.
00:23:24
Carl Lubbe
Gripping and curiosity inspiring for sure when I read it the first time.
00:23:26
Callie Murray
Yeah. ah But it I think that's one of the things I've seen in a lot of um the reviews that i read before i was told not to stop reading reviews is it is um it's a different look at World War Two fiction.
00:23:39
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Which is honestly the thing that I would need to hear. Cause I'm like, man, it's the last thing that I need in my world is to read one more thing about world war two. Mostly because I think it's a, ah it's a funny thing in comedy.
00:23:51
Carl Lubbe
Now that they're like, Hey, you've turned 40 now. Here's your world war two book and your couch. And the one thing you were insanely angry about all the time. So these are, these are your welcome to 40 gifts as a, you know, cisgender white male in America in your forties.
00:24:05
Carl Lubbe
I was like, I don't know if I can read it. if So.
00:24:08
Callie Murray
I know.
00:24:08
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:24:08
Callie Murray
it's Actually, it's funny. It's 1939, so it's before the wars even started. I actually had a our publisher, we went through so many emails about do we call it a World War II novel? Because it's technically not.
00:24:19
Carl Lubbe
and Yeah.
00:24:21
Callie Murray
But I've always been fascinated by how did World War II start. And think about this season beforehand. People didn't know there was going to be a war. They didn't know would be, i mean, World War I was called the Great War because they didn't know there'd be a second, you know?
00:24:30
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:24:36
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:24:36
Callie Murray
So I think I was curious about that season, um obviously making it relevant, thinking about like, um thinking about today, like when when might we know there might be a ah a war that, you know what i mean
00:24:52
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, no, it's a stunning new perspective, which I really appreciate. um So if somebody looking to grab it or looking to share it or looking to help Callie and getting a great new book out into the world, how can people do that?
00:25:05
Callie Murray
Yeah. So it's, I mean, it's in all the places you can get it online at Amazon or bookshop.org or Target or Barnes and Noble, all those places. It's in some local shops and hopefully it'll continue to grow into more.
00:25:18
Callie Murray
And then my kind of approach has been, i want, I want people to be advocates of this book and feel some ownership of it too.
00:25:25
Carl Lubbe
Thank you.
00:25:26
Callie Murray
So ah there's a website, callimurray.com slash book. And this has all of my like It's my launch wishlist. These are the ways that you can learn more about the book and really get involved in sharing it.
00:25:38
Carl Lubbe
Amazing. So for other people who are listening to this and are inspired, they're going, OK, you know, Callie's written a book, Carl's in the middle of writing one. What would you say if they're going, hey, i' I've either got the the seed for one in my brain or my heart and I'm trying to work through that or they're like they're already, you know, 150 pages in. They're like, I don't know what to do with it now. What advice would you give to that new author who's kind of trying to follow your path?
00:26:04
Callie Murray
Yeah. and Oh, man, so many things I could say. um One of the best pieces of advice I received is write the first draft for you. So write this first draft for yourself. Tell the story to yourself or if it's nonfiction, like get the point out to yourself and don't let this don't worry about timelines or what other people are going to say and just tell the story to yourself. And for me, that's what I did with the first draft.
Advice for Aspiring Authors
00:26:31
Callie Murray
And then I had my husband and a friend read it.
00:26:34
Callie Murray
And the first draft was not great, but it was a start. ah But having them get into the story was when I thought, oh, like readers is where it's at.
00:26:44
Carl Lubbe
whom
00:26:44
Callie Murray
And that for me was what kind of made me want to go all in on publishing it having it be something where I could really share it with readers. But but I would say start with first draft. um And then, yeah, I think the other thing is I made that Apple note on my phone at the very beginning of what do I want this book to be? And that was so helpful. And at multiple times I would go back and read it. And, um, when I decided to publish, I wrote a note of, uh, what do I want? What is success?
00:27:13
Callie Murray
You know, what do I want this publication to process to be like? And the day it came out last week, I sat there and read it. And, and so I think that would be my other kind of practical advice is like set your attentions from the beginning.
00:27:25
Carl Lubbe
Oh, I love that. And one piece I think that, you know, you got from your early readers would be one of the things that I've followed for many years that a mentor gave to me. He said, don't take criticism from somebody you wouldn't take advice from.
00:27:40
Callie Murray
Yeah, that's a good.
00:27:42
Carl Lubbe
And, you know, I think probably also helpful when you go and start reading through your Amazon reviews on one week moment in three weeks, you're like, I need a little pick me up.
00:27:48
Callie Murray
Right.
00:27:50
Carl Lubbe
And you're like, is this where I get it?
00:27:51
Callie Murray
Yeah.
00:27:52
Carl Lubbe
Be like, okay, I'm not listening to user hotdog 787. But, you know, if I'm listening to, you know, Keats lover, okay, maybe they have something to say, you know, so.
00:27:56
Callie Murray
right
00:28:01
Callie Murray
yeah
00:28:03
Carl Lubbe
um Well, I'd love to wrap up with the last question here, Callie, which is, you know If you look back, obviously your life has been defined by many great questions. you know i wonder what it would be like to be married to David. I wonder what it would look like to foster. I wonder what it would look like to start the not wedding. I wonder what writing a book could feel like. So the byproduct of our life is the byproduct of great questions.
00:28:29
Carl Lubbe
And as you look back either at this season or previous seasons or maybe ever, is there a question that comes to mind that you're like, oh, my gosh, I do. I remember my my one of my parents asked me this or a friend asked me this or actually six weeks ago.
Final Thoughts and Farewell
00:28:43
Carl Lubbe
Somebody asked me this and you find it has shifted or is shifting the way that you're kind of approaching life in ah in a pretty powerful and meaningful way.
00:28:52
Callie Murray
Yeah, great question. So meta, a question about questions. um i when i My first thought is ah is my father-in-law, Bill, who you know, knew Bill well. We called him Chief. he was a great question asker. and But one thing that he would say often, it was actually incredibly frustrating because you would come to him and ask for advice and he would just ask you questions back.
00:29:17
Carl Lubbe
He would. He was so frustrating. He'd be like, Bill, I'm in my 20s. Give me some answers. He's like, no, that's not what I'm here for. I'm like, Bill, help me out.
00:29:24
Callie Murray
Yeah. But one of the, he's probably said this to you too He would say, um what's the worst thing that could happen? yeah And, and he wouldn't mean it as like this, feel bad about yourself.
00:29:31
Carl Lubbe
Oh.
00:29:34
Callie Murray
He would mean it like, truly go down that path. And I want you to decide what's the worst thing that could happen. And it's funny. Cause you would be like, yeah, i I don't know. I might get a bad review. Okay. Well, what's so bad about that?
00:29:46
Callie Murray
What if I fail? What if everyone turns against me? What if I die? i mean, you just start going on this path, but it it pretty quickly makes you realize how ridiculous you're being.
00:29:52
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:29:58
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:29:58
Callie Murray
um
00:29:59
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:29:59
Callie Murray
And it also just makes you realize what's important. and And so i've I've thought that so many times with projects I've done. And I've talked about it with my kids all the time, too. It's just become a like, Okay, I see you're being really anxious about this. Let's work it out. What's the worst thing that could happen?
00:30:16
Callie Murray
and And it doesn't always lead to a yes. I mean, sometimes you go like, oh, like right now, if we were to go start a new giant project, like we pretty quickly could get to something that's just not worth it.
00:30:27
Callie Murray
So it doesn't always lead to a just do it.
00:30:28
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:30:31
Callie Murray
Yes. Moment. but Yeah. What's the worst kid happen that could happen?
00:30:35
Carl Lubbe
I love that. And it's funny that you say that because my wife and Catherine, ran across Bill and Kitty in very early in our marriage. And I remember Bill asking something to that.
00:30:47
Carl Lubbe
And it's helping me connect dots because I remember probably about five or six years later, I'm the adventure. I'm the let's say yes, let's you know try big new things. And Catherine is the bright and intelligent one of the two of us going, hmm, let me ask some questions here.
00:30:59
Callie Murray
It's a
00:31:01
Carl Lubbe
um But sometimes it can leave her a little, you know, in analysis by paralysis sort of moment. And I would just, in my early Mary days, when I was dumber than I am currently, which is hard to imagine, um I would be like, no, it's fine. It's just going fine. It's fine. You know, and I wouldn't validate any of those things. And there must have been some, you know, ghost of Bill's wisdom running around. Because I remember about five years into the marriage, I started just going,
00:31:26
Carl Lubbe
Well, tell me, how how bad could this get? And genuinely being, in I was like, I will jump on the train and you tell me how bad this can get. It's like, well, we could lose some money or somebody could get hurt or death and maiming. OK, now I'm on the train until it runs.
00:31:38
Carl Lubbe
And then what I would notice about Catherine is she would eventually go, but I know nobody's going to die, but maybe this could. Well, that's probably not going to happen. And so this probably as bad as it gets. And I would just notice it would de-escalate it for her.
00:31:50
Callie Murray
Yes.
00:31:51
Callie Murray
Yep.
00:31:51
Carl Lubbe
And so I love that Bill asking questions 20 years ago and frustrating you and I endlessly in our early We're like, Bill, just give me an answer.
00:31:59
Carl Lubbe
He's like, no, no, I'm just going to train you to ask better and better questions.
00:32:00
Callie Murray
Yeah.
00:32:03
Callie Murray
I know.
00:32:03
Carl Lubbe
What lovely legacy.
00:32:04
Callie Murray
Yep.
00:32:04
Carl Lubbe
What a lovely human. um Well, Callie, a delight as always. And I cannot believe that you were able to make time in between, you know, ah big TV interviews and seven children and a husband and HR company that you need to run. And the the release of a stunning piece of literature as let's see, let's make sure we get Alan Levi who wrote Theon Golden's quote, right, a delight and a beautiful bit of art. So thank you for making it. And thank you for making time.
00:32:35
Callie Murray
Thank you so much.
00:32:36
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. So as we said before, they can find all things at CallieMurray.com. And are there any other events? I know people are probably jealous. They see my autographed copy and my stunning little you know book note that you've handed out. Is there any other places that they can be catching you soon?
00:32:53
Callie Murray
um I'll be in Denver later this week. We'll be at the Norcross Library in July with a friend and neighbor, Dale Russell. He was an investigative reporter, and he's going to do an interview with me about Norcross history, which is really fun.
00:33:08
Callie Murray
um And then, yeah I'm speaking with some book clubs. I'll be talking to Catherine's book club. and government Yeah.
00:33:14
Carl Lubbe
Yay. Oh, that's very exciting. Well, thank you for your question. What's the worst can happen? And I'm glad that when you asked yourself that you were like, I think I still want to write the book.
00:33:25
Carl Lubbe
What's the worst can happen?
00:33:26
Callie Murray
Yeah, it was worth it.
00:33:27
Carl Lubbe
So thanks for joining us on an episode of one great question.
00:33:27
Callie Murray
sort of it
00:33:33
Carl Lubbe
And