Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 12: Success Cost Me Everything I Was Proud Of A conversation with Mike Kim
42 Plays2 months ago
Most people chase success without ever asking what it's actually going to cost them. Mike Kim did the work, wrote the books, built the brand, and got close enough to the mountain to realize he was climbing the wrong one.
In this episode, Mike and I dig into what it really takes to become who you're meant to be, and why the price of that journey is almost always your pride. We talk about why consistency beats talent every single time, why work-life balance is a mythology we need to stop chasing, and why AI being the Ozempic of thinking might be the most important sentence you hear this week.
Mike also shares the question a mentor asked him over a meal that quietly changed the whole trajectory. Not a big dramatic moment. Just one question. That's usually how it goes.
So here's what I want you to sit with after this one. You've been working hard, staying consistent, checking the boxes. But when's the last time you stopped long enough to ask yourself if you even want the life at the top of the mountain you're climbing?
Find Mike Kim:
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Mike Kim
00:00:01
Carl Lubbe
Hey friends, wanna welcome you back to the next episode of One Great Question. Our guest today, i'm incredibly excited about because i got to know Mike Kim through a mutual friend, Jeff Goins, who is kind enough to make my first book not terrible by writing it alongside me. But Mike and Jeff have been friends for a long time and Mike himself is a personal branding strategist and himself also a best-selling author of the book, You Are the Brand.
00:00:28
Carl Lubbe
And somebody who I want to become more like and that he's a trusted advisor to some of the most respected voices in places of leadership and business and has helped thousands of experts and entrepreneurs clarify who they are and what they stand for.
00:00:43
Carl Lubbe
um And in kind of a world obsessed with things like visibility and optimization, at least what I've seen of Mike.
Who Are You Before the Brand?
00:00:49
Carl Lubbe
Mike's work, it seems that he's asking a deeper question, which is, well, who are you before the brand? And so, Mike, I just want to say thanks and welcome to the show.
00:00:59
Mike Kim
Well, I'm honored to be here, Carl. um I hope I can live up to that intro. So we'll see what happens. So no, it's really great to be here. Thanks for having me.
00:01:09
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, man. Well, you know, we we talk about the intro and the bio and, you know, everybody's got one of those and it it feels equally awkward anytime somebody brings me on one of these things, which, you know, it has happened all of three times, most of them with my mom inviting me onto her podcast, but you do it in serious places. um But I'm now jokingly saying in the format of our show, the question that I really want to open up with is if we were to get a one on one interview with eight year old Mike and he was looking at now Mike in this season of your life in Korea, what would he either be proud of or wowed by a kind of almost kind of like eight year old Mike would be going, hold on, you got to do what? or you're in the midst of doing what? What's the thing that would kind of light up the eight year old version of you?
00:01:52
Mike Kim
I think that he doesn't have a job and can do what he wants. ah can can kind of Is living outside of the the structures that he was taught were normal?
00:01:56
Carl Lubbe
remember
00:02:05
Mike Kim
you know um
Cultural Pressures and Personal Freedom
00:02:07
Mike Kim
We are Korean by descent. I was born in the States and lived here, but a lot of the culture is around you become or lawyer. That's it. You become a doctor, or a lawyer, or a failure.
00:02:19
Carl Lubbe
Right.
00:02:19
Mike Kim
you can you can be become a doctor a lawyer or a failure And that's it. That's three options. um Now that that has done a lot.
00:02:27
Carl Lubbe
No pressure.
00:02:28
Mike Kim
Yeah, yeah, no pressure.
00:02:28
Carl Lubbe
No pressure. Yeah.
00:02:30
Mike Kim
I mean, my parents weren't that strict on me or my sister along those roads, but that's definitely an an influence.
00:02:36
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:02:41
Mike Kim
Like you it's it's ah it's a narrative that you hear just sort of buzzing in the background because your friends' parents are all saying the same thing and your friends are sort of going down that track.
00:02:51
Mike Kim
And there's a huge emphasis on academic education and i just like wasn't good at that stuff.
00:02:57
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:02:58
Mike Kim
I was average, I was decent. I was not exceptional. um And so I think when I was young, I just felt like life was just a a sentence that you were just going to go through this life and this is what it
Finding Meaningful Work
00:03:11
Mike Kim
was. you were gonna There wasn't anything better.
00:03:13
Mike Kim
ah My parents struggled with money. they we We didn't have a lot growing up. We moved around a lot. We got kicked out of homes a lot. And so um I felt trapped.
00:03:20
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:23
Mike Kim
I'm like, this is our life. And the only way out is to study more. And I am not good at that either.
00:03:30
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:03:30
Mike Kim
So all up, all in, I think if I could see that kid and say, hey, guess what? You know, if you keep your head down and keep working and keep growing, you're not going to have to work a day in your life. You'll have to work, but it won't be labor.
00:03:45
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:03:45
Mike Kim
You know, it'll it'll be something meaningful to you. And I think that's um something that is a surprise. I never intended for that to happen. but that's the way that my life went.
00:03:56
Mike Kim
So I'm very, very grateful.
00:03:56
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:03:57
Mike Kim
Yeah.
00:03:58
Carl Lubbe
Oh, man. Yeah, I just i can now imagine eight year old you with a smile on his face going, wait, what? That's a that's a that's a possibility. Like there's not just Dr. Lawyer failure. There's a there's a fourth door that I could walk through.
00:04:10
Mike Kim
Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:11
Carl Lubbe
what What a gift to be able to give that version. And, you know, a similar story for me coming as an immigrant from South Africa and fled Central Africa into the US. And, you know, the first couple of years, my folks and I lived here, we were a family of six living on $8,000 a year.
00:04:26
Carl Lubbe
And, and it's this idea of, you know, my story is a little bit the opposite that academics kind of came kind of easily. But in the same way, I still didn't know what to do with it.
00:04:37
Carl Lubbe
Like, okay, graduate, top your class.
00:04:38
Mike Kim
me.
00:04:39
Carl Lubbe
And then now what?
Immigrant Experience and Academic Challenges
00:04:41
Carl Lubbe
Like, what you know what what is the thing? um Because we were, unlike the Korean culture, where it sounds like there was lots of, um you know, that's the water that you're swimming in.
00:04:51
Carl Lubbe
We were the only six South Africans that I knew in East Tennessee. And so it's like, okay, it's just us. There's nobody else going, oh, you're going to, you know, take over your dad's business. You're going to do this, that, the other. And so I often think, ah you know, now I'm going to be 45 this year, looking back going, the eight-year-old is going, hold on, you make money doing what? I didn't know that that was a thing.
00:05:12
Carl Lubbe
Like, and cause it, it may not have been, you know, almost 40 years ago.
00:05:17
Mike Kim
Yeah, yeah. the You know, the the question when you're a kid is what do you want to be when you grow up?
00:05:21
Carl Lubbe
Right.
00:05:22
Mike Kim
And I just didn't have a lot of options.
Journey into Personal Branding
00:05:25
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:05:25
Mike Kim
I didn't see this until I was ah i was ah an adult.
00:05:25
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:05:29
Mike Kim
So I'm very, very grateful. i think part of the message that I have for people is that if you want that, it's available. if you'll just open your eyes and open your mind and be willing to learn and grow and put yourself in difficult situations where you're forced and stretched to grow, it's possible.
00:05:50
Mike Kim
I'm glad I went down this road when I still had younger man energy. When I was in my, you know, mid, late thirties, there was a different gear that I had.
00:05:57
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:05:58
Mike Kim
I mean, it was just, and now I'm more grounded. I would like to think and, and working through things at a slower, more deliberate and intentional pace. But, you know Going back to that eight-year-old kid, I knew that like I had always a hard-charging engine if I was passionate about something.
00:06:18
Carl Lubbe
hu
00:06:19
Mike Kim
and I'm fortunate. I'm very, very fortunate that i kind of this all unfolded for me. so I'm very, very grateful.
00:06:27
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Well, maybe for those of us who don't know um kind of your trajectory, maybe you could take us through your 20s and 30s and go, okay, because I know you as you know an author and ah and a brand specialist. um And I think the thing that resonates a lot with me with your work is there's just a sense of authenticity to it that feels a little bit counter to, I think, most of the brand work that exists out in the world now, especially in the world of social media. So you know Mike's a great follower on socials if you like to see travel and you know some delicious food every once in a while. But I think the thing that has resonated, even as somebody who's new to your work, is it it feels 100% like Mike all the time. It doesn't feel like there's any difference between who you are and the brand and the thing that you're doing out in the world. So maybe you could walk us through how with this you know this big engine of yours, when you found something you were passionate about, What did you start doing in your twenties and thirties to find yourself now of apparently unemployed in your forties and loving that?
00:07:29
Mike Kim
Yeah. I mean, when it comes to the branding, that this term is, it's actually surprised me ah because I got into this whole personal branding industry, maybe like 10, 12 years ago.
00:07:41
Mike Kim
And I remember the coaches and mentors that I had at the time were like, that's that's stupid.
00:07:41
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:07:46
Mike Kim
Don't do that. no Nobody talks about being a coach. And I'm like, no, I think there's something here. I don't know where it's going to go, but let me let me just explore this, this idea of marketing a person.
00:07:52
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:07:57
Carl Lubbe
hu
00:07:57
Mike Kim
and having an identity for me um and for many of us, it wasn't some industry that you you tried to get into. It's actually a human phenomenon. I remember the first time that I probably came across this idea of whatever a personal brand is, was in college.
00:08:14
Mike Kim
At that time, America online was all the rage. That's all we had. Those big CDs that you had to you know, stuff into a computer and it would dial up your modem. You know, i was, I went to, I was a nineties
Elements of Personal Branding
00:08:25
Mike Kim
college kid.
00:08:25
Mike Kim
Right.
00:08:25
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, come on.
00:08:26
Mike Kim
So, um, you've got that going on. And all my friends one year were like on instant messenger. For those of you too young to understand what that is. That's basically the precursor to DMS.
00:08:37
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Oh, man.
00:08:37
Mike Kim
It's the ancestor of DMS.
00:08:38
Carl Lubbe
AIM.
00:08:39
Mike Kim
Yeah. Aim. Right.
00:08:40
Carl Lubbe
him
00:08:41
Mike Kim
And all,
00:08:42
Carl Lubbe
I still, when you say that even now, ah Mike, it it makes me remember like the girl you had a crush on were like, when you heard that little noise and that that that person was on and you might start a chat, you're oh, it's the butterflies of almost like, you know, like in the seventies of walking into a crowded bar and knowing the girl was going to be there.
00:08:53
Mike Kim
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:58
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:08:59
Mike Kim
Yeah, I mean, you stole my thunder. So like basically, I'm sitting there, all my friends are like, hey, get on ins Instant Messenger.
00:09:01
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:09:06
Mike Kim
And I'm like, all right, cool. I pop in the CD, and I'm i'm like paralyzed because you have to come up with a screen name. So I'm like, all right, what do I what do? i It's just kind of odd that even at that time, before any of this online stuff existed,
00:09:22
Mike Kim
I was worried about how it would come across online. I was like, I have to have a cool screen name. It has to be smart, has to be clever. Oh, I have an idea. I'll i'll do this. it'll It'll sound really masculine and cool and all the girls will like me. And so I came up with a screen name, Mikeovich.
00:09:35
Mike Kim
It's terrible.
00:09:36
Carl Lubbe
Come on.
00:09:37
Mike Kim
And you know my friends, when when they all saw me, they were making fun of me. They're like, it sounds Russian. or you like You sound like a Russian guy.
00:09:43
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:09:44
Mike Kim
So they would say, like greetings, comrade Mikeovich. was like, yeah, okay, whatever. And then this girl that I liked... She knew I liked her. She was like, hey, I got a good screen name for you. I was like, what's that? She's like, Michael Bitch. And i was like, all right, okay. you know And so like that hurt.
00:09:59
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:10:00
Mike Kim
She's probably living a miserable life now.
00:10:00
Carl Lubbe
Right. Hmm.
00:10:02
Mike Kim
But um anyways, like you when you really think about that in all seriousness, that phenomenon, when you started your Instagram account or felt like you needed to update your username or whatever that is, where does all that come from?
00:10:14
Mike Kim
It is ah an identity expressed for a public purpose.
00:10:19
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:10:19
Mike Kim
And that's really all personal branding is. So when I was growing up, we just thought of that as reputation. You know, you apply for a job, and you have a resume, you hopefully build a good reputation, a good network. But now because of social media, you have ideas, you have visuals, you have video, and it's also an arena to showcase your personality. So I always tell people that a personal brand is an identity comprised of your ideas, your expertise, your reputation, and your personality.
00:10:47
Mike Kim
Now, if you think about it through that lens, I grew up around that. um I spent a lot of time as a kid going to church.
00:10:50
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:10:54
Mike Kim
That's a very Korean thing to do. We go to church a lot. I was involved in music a lot. I probably sat in thousands of services. And if you really take the whole spiritual element out of that, I saw thousands of keynote speeches.
00:11:07
Mike Kim
I saw thousands of performances. I spent thousands of hours on a stage doing music and doing all this stuff. So there are things that I probably caught more than were taught.
00:11:20
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:11:21
Mike Kim
And I developed sort of this sixth sense or this taste or this you know ability to see like, well, that dude definitely has it, whatever it is.
00:11:32
Mike Kim
That guy doesn't have it, but he has something else and different. So I do believe All of us have something that can be magnified for a public express purpose.
00:11:44
Mike Kim
And so that's sort of where it all started for me. When I left that world behind, I missed having a creative outlet. So I just started blogging.
00:11:54
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:11:55
Mike Kim
And that's where I discovered nobody read my blog, not even my mom. And so maybe I should learn this and I Googled how to blog and I came across some guy named Michael Hyatt.
00:12:05
Mike Kim
I had no idea who he was. He probably just had good Google SEO at the time. And I followed his podcast and that's how I met you know our mutual friend Jeff Goins. Jeff was um promoted a lot by Michael at the time for being a great writer and a great blogger.
00:12:20
Mike Kim
And so I just followed what these guys were saying and I put my stuff out there and I took
Consistency and Sequential Success
00:12:26
Mike Kim
a marketing job. This is a long story, but long story short,
00:12:28
Carl Lubbe
It's a great story. Yeah. yeah
00:12:29
Mike Kim
I just shared what I did at my marketing job online and I had people follow me and and come to me and ask me for help and ask me to do some work for them. And so this was back in like 2013 and it actually wasn't, I thought I was late to the game.
00:12:48
Mike Kim
at that time.
00:12:48
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:49
Mike Kim
And I was really early now in retrospect, but that's why I keep saying i just sort of stumbled into this, but I had those skills and I had that awareness and I had the ability to express what I was learning.
00:12:56
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:13:03
Mike Kim
I think that's one of my, my, the things that have helped me get where I am today that I've just tried to do the difficult work of making things simple for people.
00:13:11
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, yeah, right. It's the Einstein idea that true genius is taking complicated things and making them simple. And, you know, i I jokingly, when my wife, I think sometimes is surprised by the amount of um ah work or travel that's involved, she's like,
00:13:28
Carl Lubbe
So what do you think it is that people really are wanting? I was like, I think I'm just always the biggest eight year old in the room. So i I have to quickly synthesize and simplify things. And then everybody thinks somehow that's smart. And it's like, no, this is just the only way I could understand the hard thing that you're doing.
00:13:44
Carl Lubbe
And then that becomes, you know, a brand or a framework or something like that. Um, uh, fascinating. So for you, then what did that turn into? So you were in kind of the blogosphere and then people started asking you for branding work. How did that then kind of matriculate into what you're doing now?
00:14:03
Mike Kim
It's just everything just compound compounded on one, like one on top of the other. So I was the head of marketing for this company. So that was ah that was an edge that I had. I could say that like, look, I'm sharing advice from running a real business and being responsible for their marketing.
00:14:15
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:14:17
Mike Kim
I'm not just blogging. um I'm actually sharing real world ideas and it happened very quickly.
00:14:18
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:14:25
Mike Kim
um I learned, I learned, how to write stuff that would connect, you know, big thanks to Michael and Jeff and people like that who gave me some pointers along the way. And definitely, mean, their courses and their programs were helpful.
00:14:38
Mike Kim
I started podcasting the very next year. I started podcasting in 2014. And then every single year, I just thought about adding a critical skill to my my skill set.
00:14:49
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:14:51
Mike Kim
I think a lot of people look at those who are established and have gone further down the road. And I love this quote by Gary Keller from Keller Williams, a real estate a guy. he He says, success is sequential, not simultaneous.
00:15:07
Mike Kim
And love that. And if I went back and looked at my journey, all I did in 2013 was consistently blog. Every Monday, hell or high water, there was a post coming. i didn't care if people read it or not.
00:15:18
Mike Kim
I just knew had to be consistent. 2014, same thing. I started adding podcasting onto my blogging. 2015, I then had an audience. I went full time.
00:15:29
Mike Kim
you know I basically launched my own a course in 2015 and went full time in my own business in about two years from starting blogging.
00:15:37
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:15:40
Mike Kim
And um that was that consistency. At 2016, I started my own live event and everything just snowballed over the last decade. The big key was and i've I've been friends with and and I've worked with a lot of high performers across all industries. And I can honestly say the thing that really sets them apart is they just don't stop.
00:16:05
Mike Kim
They're consistent. I've met so many, I'll just say it, weak, excuse-making people who want these results of greatness and can't show up every single week and stick to a commitment that they make.
00:16:23
Mike Kim
Right. And um now I'm not perfect in every other area of my life, but business, I wanted it bad enough that I was willing to lose sleep, to stay up late, to be obsessive about learning, to be obsessive about being hard on myself and evaluating myself and saying, am I writing stuff that my mentors would want to read? That was always the bar.
00:16:47
Carl Lubbe
Oh, what a great question.
00:16:48
Mike Kim
Yeah, I was like, I'm ah i'm the CMO of a company. I actually have some knowledge that can be helpful to a guy like Michael Hyatt. He was the CEO of a company. He probably had a CMO. Let me pretend I was a CMO.
00:17:02
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:17:03
Mike Kim
What would I need to write so that this guy would be like, these are great insights. Thanks for sharing this. And I did. And he did. He would share my blog post once a while, like on Twitter. And i was like, okay, I'm on the right track.
00:17:15
Mike Kim
i this is i'm I'm gearing towards the right signal.
00:17:15
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:17:20
Mike Kim
And um I just don't understand people who can't show up for themselves. They say they want this or this or that. And they, you know, I saw this great meme crawl.
00:17:32
Mike Kim
It's one of those like affirmations memes, right? And with like the picture of a a beach, right? At night with the sunset, it's beautiful. It's like, dear God, please give me the strength to move forward in my life and overcome these challenges. And then it says, it God says, it's an effing email, Bob.
00:17:54
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:17:55
Mike Kim
You know, a like, dude, we could be doing so much more difficult stuff with our, it's a freaking email.
00:17:57
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:18:02
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:18:02
Mike Kim
If you sit on your, your screen and you type into this little thing and just send it. Like I just, oh, you're being so like, you know, arrogant or like you're talking down to us. they Like you're minimizing. Yeah, I am.
00:18:14
Mike Kim
It's an email. Have you seen the world?
00:18:17
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:18:17
Mike Kim
Do you see where we live?
00:18:18
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:18:18
Mike Kim
is South Africa, Korea, like the things that are around the world, people are being bombed and we can't send an email sharing some thoughts. and And what's interesting is that like, I thought with the advent of AI and LLMs, like it would massively increase the creative output of the people who I know or in my world or like even some of my students.
00:18:41
Mike Kim
It has not, not at all. it's Other people have. Other people who are okay with putting slop out there are, but man, that's when I i realized this years ago, but this was further confirmation that it is has nothing to do with your skill level. It's all up in here.
00:18:58
Carl Lubbe
Yep.
00:18:58
Mike Kim
It's a mindset. So, yeah.
00:18:59
Carl Lubbe
Yep. 100%.
Growth: Discomfort vs. Trauma
00:19:00
Carl Lubbe
and Yeah, and and what you're talking about now, I've got a 10 year old and a 12 year old. And one of the words that I'm being very careful, like using around them or even being used around them is this idea of overwhelm.
00:19:13
Carl Lubbe
Because we're talking a lot, you know, in our work, my work is around emotional intelligence. And it's like, hey, we want to acknowledge that there are problems. But we don't want to acknowledge them so deeply that they like hamstring us to the point we can't move forward. And I'm like, listen, I understand in this moment this feels like a lot, but overwhelm is a tsunami.
00:19:31
Carl Lubbe
Like I have no choice in the matter. I will be washed away. That is what it means to be overwhelmed. You're just carrying something. You're noticing the weight of something that it will make you stronger in your ability to carry it. And my brother is a functional neurologist, got a great practice here in Atlanta. And he talks about we are now and he sees this in his clinical work all the time, um said we're confusing discomfort for trauma.
00:19:54
Carl Lubbe
He's like trauma is something that is shattered or broken that will take decades to undo and and fix.
00:19:54
Mike Kim
Yep.
00:20:01
Carl Lubbe
discomfort is a workout like oh i was uncomfortable my muscles are sore i've even torn fibers that are now busy re-knitting and we're confusing in this era discomfort and trauma and i see that in my clients you know like you see it in yours when i'm talking to executives and they're like done i'm like okay let's make sure that i'm acknowledging the discomfort but let's not accidentally call it something that's going to break a vertical or disrupt the company it's like this is just a little bit of discomfort that we have to get creative around
00:20:30
Mike Kim
I love that analogy about trauma and discomfort. I love that your you mentioned your brother was a functional neurologist. So when I've been working out over the last couple of years, I worked with a personal trainer.
00:20:41
Mike Kim
And he was like, hey, what's your goal?
00:20:42
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:20:43
Mike Kim
You know, what's your goal? I was like, you know, I just want i want to be able to move well. I want to feel good. You know, the the aesthetic look is not that important to me I feel like whatever, that that comes with time. So we did a lot of functional training.
00:20:56
Mike Kim
And I'm not used to moving my body that way. I played a lot of basketball as a kid, played from my high school and stopped after high school. um I would like to think that i pick up sports pretty well, but I'm not moving like that. I'm not active like that. And now it's been 20 some odd years. And so remember the first couple weeks, first two, three weeks, he would have me do things like just breathing exercises or and dead bugs for your for your core and all this sort of, and like compound movements. and I would literally have to take a nap after every workout.
00:21:29
Mike Kim
he was He's just downstairs. So I hacked my own system. This guy owns a gym literally downstairs from our building. It takes about 45 seconds for me to walk there.
00:21:35
Carl Lubbe
Amazing.
00:21:38
Mike Kim
And if I miss a workout, he can stand outside and yell at me and be like, come to the... So I had no excuse, right? And I was asking him, what is going on? Why am I so tired? We're not even pushing weights.
00:21:49
Mike Kim
We're just doing functional work.
00:21:49
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:21:51
Mike Kim
He's like, well, your central nervous system doesn't know how to handle moving more than two muscle groups at a time because you're such a slug and sitting in front of your computer all day.
00:22:00
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. we are i think done Yeah.
00:22:01
Mike Kim
You know, you know it's like, well, you know, they do this in a rotation and press these dumbbells. I'm like, what? And it's not trauma. I mean, I got over it after a couple of workouts. I still get tired. I still push the – but, like, we've lost sight of what we can actually handle.
00:22:19
Mike Kim
And I've just – you know, I'm from Jersey, so we're like that. You know, you just call a spade a spade. We're like, no, you're just wussing out. No, don't bring that here. Like, just be responsible.
00:22:29
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:22:30
Mike Kim
Carry your own bag.
00:22:32
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:22:32
Mike Kim
It's your life. You know, you got to it. you got do it
00:22:35
Carl Lubbe
And to that point, it's asking the question, like the trainer said, like, what do you want? And I think that's the biggest problem that I see in this is on one side of the spectrum, it's going, don't let anything be uncomfortable ever.
00:22:47
Carl Lubbe
So I'll just sit at my desk and turn into one of the characters from WALL-E that, you know, floats around in space and drinks my milkshake from the side and can't move their body. um On the other side of the spectrum, you have your David Goggins of the world who's like just run on broken feet.
00:23:01
Carl Lubbe
I'm like, I don't know if David needs a hug. Like, I'm i'm not trying the whole world to be in that space.
00:23:03
Mike Kim
yeah
00:23:05
Carl Lubbe
And so lots of respect to the work that David's doing. But I think there might actually be trauma there. And I don't think Mike because he details it in this book. So I don't necessarily want to transfer trauma across the universe.
00:23:17
Carl Lubbe
um But I think there is this space in between. And I think this gets kind of to our next question in finding success, I think is all around this question of what the trainer asked, like, what what do you want? And in our work, we talk about a curiosity, what's the problem you want to be known for solving?
00:23:36
Carl Lubbe
And if you can focus on that thing, all of a sudden you'll show up differently than if it's just going, I don't really know what I want, but it's supposed to be this.
00:23:36
Mike Kim
Mm-hmm.
00:23:44
Carl Lubbe
I'm supposed to be a lawyer or a doctor because failure is the only third option. So I guess I'll just show up. And then what do we do? We disappear in our own life. And even sometimes when we get the thing called success, this is when people you know will end their life because they're like, well, this isn't what I was promised.
00:24:00
Carl Lubbe
And so the whole thing is a bad book of you know business or whatever. So the question that I would ask you is having been around people and I was even you know on social the other day and I was like, oh, this is really fun. One of my favorite authors follows Mike. So here's Donald Miller, you know, reading your stuff or whoever else is is is on there doing the same thing. So from the outside in, if anybody's watching that, they're going, oh, this must be what success feels like. Let me look at Mike.
00:24:26
Carl Lubbe
But I'm always interested in, okay when the bill comes, Was it worth it? And so I guess the question I would ask, however you're defining in success in this season of your life, what would you say it costs you? And knowing that now, looking back in hindsight, would you want to pay that bill again?
00:24:45
Mike Kim
yeah That's a great question. I would say that it costs you your pride. I think that success, again, this is just my my perspective.
00:24:56
Mike Kim
Success for me has always been born out of getting to know myself and growing in my self-awareness and taking ah accountability and responsibility for both the good and the bad.
00:25:09
Mike Kim
I think the way that I grew up, the shame was a very loud voice in my life. If you compound Asian culture with religion on top of it, you just have a shame cocktail. It's great for feeling like crap all the time and feeling like something's wrong with you.
00:25:24
Mike Kim
And then you get into the comparison traps with other high performers and things like that.
00:25:24
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:25:28
Mike Kim
And I think a lot of people look, the the people who know me might think that I'm very, very successful. And i I really don't care that much about my external accomplishments and what I look at from the outside because I live with myself every day.
00:25:44
Carl Lubbe
yeah mm-hmm mm-hmm
00:25:44
Mike Kim
I always tell people, love yourself. It's who you have to spend the rest of your life with. and It took me a long time to unlearn that, believing that it was something external, that I needed validation from God or a spouse or a family member or some stranger who reads my words on the internet that I'll never meet.
00:26:05
Carl Lubbe
who who
00:26:07
Mike Kim
um those are Those are nice things to have. I'm not saying that if I got completely deleted from the internet and got isolated or canceled that it wouldn't hurt, but it's not as big of a deal as people, I think people think it is.
00:26:18
Carl Lubbe
right.
00:26:25
Mike Kim
um But it costs you your pride getting back to that. It costs you these habits that you may develop to numb yourself. It costs you, sometimes your greatest strength at some point turns into one of your greatest weaknesses.
00:26:42
Mike Kim
As an example, growing up, you know my dad was he was crazy. He was nuts. you know I mean, he he probably was borderline
00:26:49
Carl Lubbe
had one those.
00:26:50
Mike Kim
Yeah.
00:26:51
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:26:51
Mike Kim
You know, and just like just really explosive, just very, very toxic. And I can see how my sister, my mom and I grew up, you know, just on eggshells and that affected everything.
00:27:03
Mike Kim
um About seven years ago, we we hadn't talked for years. He reached out and I was 40 at the time. And it was one of those moments, Carl, where you just know like a decision tree in your life.
00:27:17
Mike Kim
Like yes or no. That's it. You hit the green button or
Family Reconciliation and Gratitude
00:27:21
Mike Kim
the red button. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. And I responded. We ended up talking for an hour. and went to visit him the next year in Hawaii where he was living. And for the last six, seven years, we had a great relationship. He passed away about half a year ago.
00:27:36
Mike Kim
you know And um I have an incredible amount of peace and contentment in my life. And it's because I passed that test. I didn't do it necessarily for myself.
00:27:48
Mike Kim
I did.
00:27:50
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:50
Mike Kim
I'm glad that we had that relationship. I have all those text messages saved. I flew over to Korea. He was dying of cancer. And I went back there last May. And I was there with him on his deathbed.
00:28:02
Mike Kim
you know And um that's if you think about... If you can do that kind of work, I'm not propping myself up, I'm just saying from experience, that's obviously going to affect the way that I show up at work and show up for other people and show up for my friends and my family and myself.
00:28:20
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:28:21
Mike Kim
I'm proud of myself.
00:28:22
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, it could be.
00:28:23
Mike Kim
I don't take pride in myself, but I'm proud, right?
00:28:24
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:28:26
Mike Kim
And that's the thing that oftentimes becoming proud of yourself requires you to to lower your pride.
00:28:34
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:28:35
Mike Kim
And that can show up in business. I can say, well, I've written this many books, so dahdahdahda work with this guy, that guy, that lady, the big names, and choose to cordon myself off and not learn. No, I want to be teachable.
00:28:48
Mike Kim
I learn from people all the time.
00:28:50
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:51
Mike Kim
that that That is a huge trap that I can walk in with all my laurels and my trophies. There's always going somebody better, first of all. And second, what good does that do? ah We have this whole shift going on in the landscape right now with AI and technology.
00:29:05
Mike Kim
all this going on. I'm learning from people who are half my age. I'm delighted to, I want to pay them. I'm like, um I'm the old guy in the room. Help me understand this.
00:29:13
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:29:14
Mike Kim
You know, yeah that, so it costs you your pride. Success really costs you your pride. It doesn't mean you can't be proud of your accomplishments, but it cost it will cost you your pride.
00:29:25
Mike Kim
You'll eat a lot of humble pie and I would do it over again in a heartbeat.
00:29:29
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:29:30
Mike Kim
Um, One thing that I can share that has been absolutely transformative has been a gratitude practice. I talk about this a lot. Years ago, i had always been sort of semi-journaler.
00:29:43
Mike Kim
I like to journal things. You know, as the writer in me. And i i went through a divorce about seven years ago, a really crazy time in my life, and I was journaling. And then I stopped journaling because I realized when I look back on my journal entries, i was like, dude, this guy's a whiny, you know, four-letter word. Like, I wouldn't want to hang out with this guy. All he does is complain.
00:30:04
Carl Lubbe
yeah. yep.
00:30:04
Mike Kim
And that's what I was writing. So I started looking for other solutions because I just stopped journaling. I was like, does anyone have right recommendations? I went online. And I saw all these people talking about this thing called the five-minute journal.
00:30:19
Mike Kim
And for those who aren't a familiar, clearly you are, Carl. But like all you do is you just write down three things that you're grateful for in the morning, three things that would make the day great that you can control, and an affirmation. takes about five minutes.
00:30:32
Mike Kim
And in the evening, you write three great things that happened today and what you learned. And so I have now done this every day for three and a half years. i have like I have like eight or nine of these journals sitting you know back there.
00:30:42
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:30:44
Mike Kim
And once a while, I go look back and look at them. And what it has done is it has um lowered my highs and elevated my lows to where I'm very baseline.
00:30:57
Mike Kim
And the day that my book, You Are the Brand, hit the Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller, it was one of three good things that happened that day. It kept it in perspective.
00:31:09
Carl Lubbe
who
00:31:10
Mike Kim
And I started to notice these patterns. Again, consistency, right? I started to notice these patterns. Man, the things that I'm grateful for every day that I did was I got my workout in, I ate clean, and I cut drinking or I didn't drink that day.
00:31:24
Mike Kim
I just started to know that I was like, maybe maybe this is actually what's making me happy in my life and not these big professional accomplishments that the internet loses its mind about.
00:31:34
Carl Lubbe
Right.
00:31:34
Mike Kim
Dude, honestly, it's it's absolutely life-changing. And when things are hard, when my dad died, that was one of three things that happened that day.
00:31:38
Carl Lubbe
That's okay.
00:31:43
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:31:44
Mike Kim
And so it it helps you stay very, very grounded and it gives you a real picture of what's going on in your life and what you're focused on. It's beautiful.
00:31:54
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, that is stunning.
00:31:55
Mike Kim
It's been beautiful.
00:31:57
Carl Lubbe
the The interesting thing in your story that I'm hearing there is in my world, ah the language that I use around this is is's the difference between balance and order.
Beyond Work-Life Balance: Finding Order
00:32:08
Mike Kim
Hmm.
00:32:08
Carl Lubbe
And I think all of us, it doesn't matter our age at this point, men, women, if you've been on the earth for a decent amount of time, you've been sold this idea of work-life balance. And me, I operate a lot of times as you know kind of ah a de facto chief people officer inside these organizations. And the thing they're always going is like, how do we help our executives or our managers get this work-life balance?
00:32:31
Carl Lubbe
And then I have to break and burst the bubble of going, it doesn't exist. And so if you talk about your dad or anybody that you respect in your life, I would just always ask the question. I was like, OK, so give me three people, men or women, who you value their physical health, their financial health, their spiritual health, their relational health, their professional acumen, and that those things are equally balanced all the time.
00:32:56
Carl Lubbe
And I've been asking this question now for 15 years, and you can kind of, it's your exact reaction. Every single time people are like, that's an insane question, Carl. I don't know a person. And so I'm like, okay, so can we just then for a second, take this giant theory of work-life balance, because it's predicated on the word balance, and understand that it's a unicorn. It's a leprechaun. It's ah the the gold at the end of the rainbow. It is a mythology that doesn't exist in an everyday space.
00:33:25
Carl Lubbe
So then it's like, well, now if we're depressed by that and been like, hold on, I've been chasing work-life balance and you're telling me I've been chasing a leprechaun for the last 20 years of my adult life, then what does exist? Well, what I think and my thesis around this, which is probably the next ah book that I'll wrangle Jeff Goins into helping me write, is this idea of you have to establish order because the the the visible universe is predicated on an order. If I want to grow...
00:33:52
Carl Lubbe
a beautiful crop. I'm going to take a seed. I'm going to like make some ground fertile, and then I'm gonna plant it and then my water and protect it. Then over time, all of a sudden I've got something I can eat. That is an ordered step of things. And what I hear you talking about in this journey over the last seven years, which by the way, it's fascinating that you talk about this because neurologically speaking, you are an an entirely different human than you were seven years ago. And we're not talking about just from neuroplasticity and your ability to change.
00:34:21
Carl Lubbe
But from an atomic level in your DNA, everything has replicated itself. And this is how we age, right? There's less elasticity on those things. But you're physically a completely different human than you were seven years ago. And so three and a half years into that gratitude exercise, it's literally building the next version of Mike to go, here's my order.
00:34:41
Carl Lubbe
This is what I thought was important today. And our brain is a supercomputer. If we change the inputs, it will automatically change the program that it's outputting. And so like in my world, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have to live with me.
00:34:54
Carl Lubbe
And so in your framework, you're like, i'm doing I'm reducing or exterminating my pride so that I can enjoy the things that I'm doing. So your word might be, I don't have pride, but I'm proud of myself. Mine would be, um i don't have pride. i enjoy myself.
00:35:12
Carl Lubbe
I'm on the journey to enjoyment in this singularity of just me on my own.
00:35:12
Mike Kim
Yeah.
00:35:17
Carl Lubbe
And I think in our world, people will go, well, how insanely selfish? And it's like, no, it's the same principle of if you and i get on a plane, what's the first thing we're to hear? Hey, when the the masks drop,
00:35:30
Carl Lubbe
You got to put your own on first or else everybody dies. if you I mean, I'm six foot two, 230 pounds. If I fall over on Mike, everybody's going to die. he's like, Carl, I need you to put your mask on first because if you pass out, we're having a bad day over here.
00:35:42
Carl Lubbe
And it's the same thing in life. If Mike's not journaling and enjoying himself, he is now just exporting garbage into the world. The same thing for me. And so it's it's going in the order of my life. It goes me and, you know, spiritual journey, all those things. So you and I, by the way, we're going to have to grab a ah drink together at some point because all of the. lived experiences sound very similar. So mine is ah African shame mixed with Southern evangelicalism.
00:36:10
Carl Lubbe
So I was also a musician and, you know, around the church world for many, many years. And so it was very fortunate, though, that somehow I came out of the factory um broken in that my shame button hadn't been installed.
00:36:24
Carl Lubbe
So even though it was culturally around that, I had a very different experience in that. But the the beauty of my lived experience over the last 20 years is my my order now goes Carl and Carl, spiritual journey, something bigger, gratitude journal, like progressing as a different versions of myself. Then me and the spouse, then me and the kids, then me and the work. And every day it's making sure, am I orienting to that brand or is that an aspirational brand, but it's not really who I am. And it's just making sure that there's a convergence of that order that who I think I am and who I want to be is actually who I'm showing up and how my calendar says, oh, this is really who Cole is.
00:37:01
Mike Kim
Yeah, I love that. I got this from something. this This illustration really helped me, especially when I was going through. but So my my business started, i went full time in my business about three months before my wife of 10 years was I don't want to be married anymore.
00:37:21
Mike Kim
And that came out of nowhere for me. You know, it's like, I was like, what are you talking about? We had just bought a huge house.
00:37:26
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:37:28
Mike Kim
Like this, this was, this was it. And she was like, yeah, I don't want to be married anymore. So it sent my life into this just crazy season. Um, and, uh, like I met with a lady named Susie Miller. Susie had been a counselor and therapist, and then she moved more into coaching so she could meet with people virtually. Cause as a therapist, I guess the regulations at that time, meant she had to meet with people in person. And Susie had known a little bit of my work. She understood kind of what my work entailed, my work life entailed.
00:38:00
Mike Kim
She has been a speaker and author herself, so she got it. And she shared this analogy with me. i jotted this down where you were talking about balance and order. She gave me the word harmony, and I really liked this. And what she meant by that was the appropriate amount of attention to the appropriate thing for the appropriate amount of time.
00:38:20
Mike Kim
I was like, oh, okay.
00:38:22
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:38:22
Mike Kim
And that made sense to me as a musician, and you are one as well. It's like you hear a song or an orchestral piece. The violins aren't blasting the entire piece. It's the appropriate amount of attention to the appropriate thing, the violins, for their little solo or their pass for the appropriate amount of time for that one passage.
00:38:41
Mike Kim
And she's like, balance is a lie. That's how you look at your life. And so she was like, look. this This marriage, this relationship, you need to pay some attention to this and you need to give it the appropriate amount of attention for the appropriate amount of time.
00:38:58
Mike Kim
But if it's not going out anywhere after the appropriate amount of attention and time, I'm going to tell you and I'm going to give you the best insight and advice that I can.
00:39:03
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:39:06
Mike Kim
And I've taken that approach, Carl, into work. into other dynamics with what i when I went back to Korea to go see my dad last year. was there for two, three weeks. I mean, it's the appropriate amount of attention for the appropriate thing, right?
00:39:22
Mike Kim
So that's helped me a lot in terms of, am I over giving attention and time to this thing or am I underdoing it? And that's really, really helped me a lot. It's helped me in my work. It's helped me in my personal life. um And those things will, you know, the sliders, right?
00:39:40
Mike Kim
They change over time. Get older, you got to pay a little bit more attention to your health.
00:39:44
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:39:44
Mike Kim
You know?
00:39:45
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:39:45
Mike Kim
Like, so, yeah.
00:39:45
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:39:46
Mike Kim
So, no, I love that. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. That's really, really insightful.
00:39:50
Carl Lubbe
No. And likewise, I love the harmony example that you're giving because in the leadership work, it's this idea that you have written, much more successful books than I have. And I'm on my first one. And then I jokingly tell clients all the time, I'm about to write a book. You probably don't need to read. Because all of self-leadership is really summed up with three things.
00:40:11
Carl Lubbe
It is the harmony and the and and the the rhythmic nature of attention, intention, and commitment. Am I willing giving my attention to the right problem, my intention to two possible solutions, and my commitment to a deadline that will yield a result worth having?
00:40:28
Carl Lubbe
And like you said, it's the harmony of those things, whether it's talking to nieces and nephews or kids, whether it's talking to friends or spouses or our work and going, okay, how am I giving this thing my attention? And then how am I giving it my intention?
00:40:44
Carl Lubbe
And then how am I adjusting my commitment? Because they'll need different things on my mother's deathbed than I will need at like her 68th birthday party. But the problem, as you and I both know, is There's actually a shocking lack of intentionality in culture because we're moving so fast and the world is so loud.
00:41:01
Mike Kim
Mm-hmm.
00:41:05
Carl Lubbe
And I do think the most interesting people that I come across and probably you come across as even why I'm loving our conversation right now. It's like, when's the last time we had, I don't know, what are we at now?
00:41:16
Carl Lubbe
40 minutes of uninterrupted time where we just kind of eyeball to eyeball going, I want to learn from Mike. That's such a high value of the most expensive thing you own, which is your attention.
00:41:27
Carl Lubbe
But then also you were so deeply willing to give me some intentional space to talk. I mean, those are the things I think for me in living an interesting ordered life requires the harmony of those three things, which are.
00:41:41
Mike Kim
yeah Yeah, absolutely.
00:41:41
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:41:42
Mike Kim
And I agree with you about the intentionality. It's just, it's it's not there. And the the more time that passes, the more I realize there's my dog. that you know that um
00:41:50
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:41:54
Mike Kim
I'm not going to get where I want by just hoping.
00:41:56
Carl Lubbe
Yes.
00:41:56
Mike Kim
and I'm not going for a drive. You know, you could do that when you're a little younger and explore options, but now i'm like, no, where are we going? How long is it going to take to get there? How much gas do we need? How much we'd need to charge the car?
00:42:09
Mike Kim
um i just, I'm not going to stumble my way into a place of peace and contentment. I can be content in the midst of challenges and say, this too will pass.
00:42:20
Carl Lubbe
Right.
00:42:21
Mike Kim
but you gotta set a goal, you know?
00:42:23
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:42:24
Mike Kim
You've gotta set some sort of a vision and work towards that.
00:42:26
Carl Lubbe
So
00:42:28
Mike Kim
I love this phrase, some other, Guys are way wealthier. And I don't mean wealth as a, as a signal of their like character, but the volume by which they've built certain systems around them and in their life, right. That show up in their, their finances and all of them who have run companies, they just continually ruthlessly ask themselves, what am I optimizing for?
00:42:55
Mike Kim
What is it that I'm optimizing for? it Is it optimizing to get my time back? Is it optimizing my health? Is it optimizing for a return on this business? finding Like, what am I working towards? Everything else is just a distraction.
00:43:07
Carl Lubbe
It's annoying.
00:43:07
Mike Kim
And yeah, it's just noise. yeahp
00:43:10
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, for people who are wanting to dig into those things deeper, I would imagine, you know, Mike has other different names, but I think of Dan Martell with Buying Back Your Time. I think of like ah Tim Ferriss going, how do I, you know, biohack my body? And then finally, like a John Acuff thinking around goals. And these are people who, You can read their books or a dozen of other different versions of this. But to your point, it's am I going to be intentional with my scarcest resource? Because as we age, we're going, oh, time is becoming more scarce. I'm looking back at more time than I have maybe going forward. And some people would look at that as morbid. And I look at that going, I still have the vitality of mentality that I did at 20 to go like, oh, the exciting and there's lots of wonder and whimsy. But also, I i can't move through the world like a 20-year-old because i just don't have the same physical resources or the the the horizon in front of me is getting shorter. So how do I leverage that?
00:44:04
Carl Lubbe
oh
00:44:04
Mike Kim
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:44:06
Carl Lubbe
So I'd love to end with this last question, which is kind of, you know, the name of the whole podcast is
Life-Changing Questions and Realizations
00:44:12
Carl Lubbe
one great question. And ah Mike, in our philosophy, you know, around leadership and self-leadership and emotional intelligence, the the basic idea is that the world has lots of simple answers, but what we need are better questions.
00:44:25
Carl Lubbe
And the premise there then becomes like one and great question can change everything. And so I'd love, as you know you think back, and this could be recent or over the course of your whole life, what was a question that somebody asked you that still kind of you know is tumbling around in your head?
00:44:34
Mike Kim
Thank you.
00:44:43
Carl Lubbe
You're like, oh man, that was such a great question. And I'll preface this. I'll tell you the one that Jeff Goins asked me after I was laid off years and years ago. And I was in this really low and kind of shattered place.
00:44:53
Carl Lubbe
And I went up to his place in Franklin and was like, Hey, man, what should I do next? And Jeff, jeff very kindly in his direct way that you know, said, hey, man, for the best question to ask her, I know that's the stupidest question you've ever asked. I was like, what do you mean? I got to pay bills and I got to figure out. He's like, the question isn't what should you do? The question is, what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?
00:45:16
Carl Lubbe
And I was like, yes. And so that question changed the trajectory of my life and launched this company called Curiosity and everything is different because that. So I'm curious for you, it doesn't have to be professional. It be, you know, personal, but, uh, it could have been about like your favorite ice cream. I don't know, but is there a question that's kind of rattled around in your head and your heart, um, that feels like it's changed the trajectory of your life?
00:45:37
Mike Kim
Yeah, I have two in my mind, but I'll share the one that that came from within. um
00:45:42
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:45:43
Mike Kim
This is 2009. I was working on staff at a church in Connecticut. I was, what, 30? And i flew out to Colorado to meet this guy who was kind of at the top of the mountain of that industry that I was in.
00:45:56
Mike Kim
He was the same position, um huge congregation, did the music part, and he was probably about 15 years older than me at the time.
00:45:57
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:46:07
Mike Kim
And I went out to Colorado. He was willing to give me some one-on-one time. We sat down for 30 or 45 minutes. And I was stunned because when I left, went back to my hotel, i stayed in town for a conference that they were hosting.
00:46:20
Mike Kim
And I said to myself, ge he's 15 years older than me, 17 years older. It's like, if everything went right, would I want this guy's life in 15 years? And to my utter shock, I said, no, not a chance.
00:46:34
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:46:35
Mike Kim
And that was the first time that I recall where i I've really started to intentionally pick up the rock and look at what's under it. Every rock that I saw, all the structures that I saw.
00:46:46
Mike Kim
The crazy thing is um I'm now the age that that guy was when I met him.
00:46:50
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:46:51
Mike Kim
So that would be like me talking to a 30-year-old version of me.
00:46:54
Carl Lubbe
who
00:46:55
Mike Kim
And um no, I didn't want his life at all in any way, shape, or form. And I realized was working so hard to climb the mountain, it was the wrong mountain. um A book that has been helpful that I came across in the last year, talking about that is appropriately called The Second Mountain.
00:47:13
Mike Kim
And it's written by a guy named David Brooks. Really good read. And I highly recommend it. sat with it for a while. And it's it's helped me also understand that this mountain that I've climbed for the last 10 years is probably not it.
00:47:29
Mike Kim
You know, there's there's another thing. So I almost feel like I'm on the third version of myself in the last 10 years.
00:47:34
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:47:35
Mike Kim
And I have no idea where it's going to go. But like you said, you don't you you adapt. you You acquire these skills and these competencies. You still have the mental, um the the vitality of mentality to trust that you're going move forward. You just have to play a different game.
00:47:50
Mike Kim
But yeah, I just keep looking at myself and very successful people because our culture is obsessed with that. And I've been around a lot of successful and well-to-do people and been close enough also to see their lives.
00:47:56
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:48:04
Mike Kim
And I'm like, yeah, just because you have one doesn't mean you that yeah yeah yeah just because you have one doesn't mean you have the other.
00:48:05
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. I don't like how that sausage is made. Yeah.
00:48:11
Mike Kim
So, um yeah, I just keep asking myself whenever i get enamored with somebody, do I want this guy's life? Do I want Alex Hormozy's life?
00:48:18
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:48:19
Mike Kim
He grinds about, how yeah, 15 hours a day writing content.
00:48:19
Carl Lubbe
Hard pass. Hard pass.
00:48:22
Mike Kim
I'm like, no, i don't think so. I mean, that's great for him. He's young.
00:48:24
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, he loves it. Him and Layla love it.
00:48:26
Mike Kim
Yeah, the nine figures in business. Great. um At this point in my life, no. Seriously, no. I'll learn, but I won't try to um emulate my life after.
00:48:32
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:48:38
Mike Kim
So, yeah, that's that's fill in the blank.
00:48:40
Carl Lubbe
It's a fantastic question.
00:48:41
Mike Kim
Yeah.
00:48:41
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Do I want this person's life in the 15 years?
00:48:45
Mike Kim
Yeah.
00:48:45
Carl Lubbe
What a great question.
00:48:46
Mike Kim
Yeah.
00:48:47
Carl Lubbe
Well, I want to be... ah in this space, i want I want people to know how they can connect with you, you know, kind of what's the problem that Mike is currently solving on the second mountain before he gets to the third mountain. So if somebody was wanting to engage in your work right now, Mike, what what is the problem that you're solving and then how could they find ways to engage and and get around you?
00:49:08
Mike Kim
These days I'm talking a lot about having a clear voice, especially in an age of AI. We're getting drowned out, not just by AI, but but by the noise everywhere, politically, sociologically, just everything.
00:49:20
Mike Kim
And i see a real need to protect the one thing that makes us who we are, which is our humanity. I've been around that in personal branding, marketing, communications, writing.
00:49:32
Mike Kim
And i i feel like I'm on this mission like, hey, remember that you're human. Remember to safeguard your brain. like Don't outsource all your thinking. ah I've been kicking this phrase around and people read it. AI is the ozempic of thinking.
00:49:46
Mike Kim
and we're We're not necessarily shrinking our bodies, we're but we're making our brains really smooth. You know, it's the last thing yeah that we got.
00:49:52
Carl Lubbe
I love that. No wonder that's so good.
00:49:56
Mike Kim
So I write about this stuff every Tuesday. should just share other tidbits of wisdom and storytelling and communication and things I've learned. And you guys can all go to mikekim.com forward slash newsletter.
00:50:05
Carl Lubbe
Amazing. And it.
00:50:09
Mike Kim
It's super simple. I don't really market anything. It's just my best thoughts every Tuesday. And I repurpose that on my podcast. I just read it on my podcast and on my YouTube channel.
00:50:19
Mike Kim
And I tell you what, it's simplified my life so much that the best thinking is coming out in years. And it has made my life less busy because I'm just focused on one good piece of content a week.
00:50:28
Carl Lubbe
so
00:50:29
Mike Kim
So yeah, mykim.com forward slash newsletter.
00:50:31
Carl Lubbe
and Mike Kim.com. Well, I will make sure that everybody sees that in the show notes. And Mike, I just deeply appreciate your willingness to come on and share your insights.
00:50:42
Carl Lubbe
It's brilliant. And we need more people talking about this because in our world, it's this idea that, you know, we train around emotional intelligence. And so the idea is that ai is making IQ cheaper by the minute and EQ more expensive by the second.
00:50:57
Mike Kim
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:50:58
Carl Lubbe
And I, but it's not as good as that is Ozimbik for, i mean, that's so good. So true. And I think, you know, one of the things is as well as I know that, At some point you were also doing kind of some in-person stuff.
00:51:11
Carl Lubbe
I think it's going to be interesting to see how much in-person connection will just be at a premium in the future because it's like, oh, I know for a fact that this isn't being, you know, GPT or clauded or like you this is your thought from your mouth to my ears and oh, how refreshing is that?
00:51:28
Carl Lubbe
And so, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:51:28
Mike Kim
Yep. Oh, yeah. It's absolutely going happen. It's already happening. It
00:51:32
Carl Lubbe
Well, thanks so much for the time. Like, I really appreciate you being on with us.
00:51:36
Mike Kim
was an honor be with you. Thank you, Carl.
00:51:38
Carl Lubbe
right, man. I'll catch you next time.
00:51:39
Mike Kim
Be well.
00:51:39
Carl Lubbe
Cheers.
00:51:40
Mike Kim
Bye-bye.