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Episode 10: How Do You Reinvent Yourself? With Andrew Averso
56 Plays2 months ago
What if the most powerful thing you could do for your career wasn't a strategy, it was a question?
In Episode 10 of One Great Question, Carl sits down with Andrew Averso, a multi-disciplinary creative who has reinvented himself across music, fashion, brand identity, and now his own creative house, Averso Co. What unfolds is a raw, honest conversation about the real cost of "success," why there's never a perfect time to start over, and what it actually looks like to bet on yourself when the bottom falls out.
Andrew talks about trading too much time and self-worth for career accolades, the anxiety that shadows creative people, and the single question that changed everything for him: Why? Carl and Andrew explore what it means to be present, how shame pulls us backward while anxiety pushes us forward, and why a strong identity isn't a luxury. It's the difference between your best idea seeing the light of day or going to the grave with you.
This one's for anyone who's ever felt the itch to reinvent themselves but couldn't find the courage to start.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast Format
00:00:01
Carl Lubbe
Well, we've got a new format today in that the last episodes you've seen have been me and my writer friend, Jeff Goins, hanging out.
00:00:01
Andrew
Thank you.
00:00:09
Carl Lubbe
Well, actually, the first time we hung out was in a co-working space that we got kicked out of. um And then we recorded the rest of the episodes in my old office. And now we find ourselves in my new office. So this is thanks to my wife, Catherine, and a designer by the name of Carolyn Libba at Driftwood. get to hang out in this pretty space while my friend Andrew Averso hangs out in his beautiful space.
The Art of Asking Questions
00:00:33
Carl Lubbe
And so what we want to do in all of these podcasts is hopefully ask one great question, maybe a couple of great questions. And it's really just an adventure because Andrew and I don't know what it's going to be until we jump into it. And I think that's the way most great conversations and friendships and work happens is
00:00:56
Carl Lubbe
it's a quest worth going on and we kind of see how it unfolds. And so for those of you who may not be familiar with this wonderful human and artist with me here, this is Andrew Averso.
Andrew Averso's Creative Journey
00:01:08
Carl Lubbe
um In earlier stages of his life, you may have known him as a musician, looking cooler than everybody in the venue and playing better than ah at least me and any of the bands I ever played in. and You were definitely playing better than me. ah And then after that iteration, there was fashion design.
00:01:26
Carl Lubbe
And the next iteration was creative direction for some of the coolest agencies on the planet. And then now... starting your own thing, but mostly Andrew is just, an incredibly kind and present human being who I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last couple of years, because we worked on a project together.
00:01:44
Carl Lubbe
So Andrew, thanks for being with me, man.
00:01:45
Andrew
Thank you.
00:01:48
Andrew
Thanks for having me, man. It's pleasure to be here. And for the record, as far as being good at music, I just faked my way through it. I couldn't even tell you the difference between a major scale and a pentatonic scale.
00:02:01
Andrew
I just played what I played and it worked.
00:02:02
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:02:04
Andrew
so
00:02:05
Carl Lubbe
i I do remember the first time I played like at a church and I kind of self-taught and was playing now at a bigger church and they, you know, they said, Oh, do you know, like, ah you know, Nashville system, the number system was like, Nope.
00:02:17
Carl Lubbe
And they're like, well, do you know keys? Like, you know, G a B flat. And i was like, Nope. And I was like, I know how to use a capo and make it sound like what you're doing. And they're like, oh, OK. So I just I realized how far behind I was. But it's also it's also telling that in Christian music, you really only need to know about four chords and you'll be all right.
00:02:38
Carl Lubbe
Capo and four chords and you'll you'll get through most of the set list pretty fine.
00:02:42
Andrew
That's just about anything i would think other than jazz, which finally I'm finally comfortable enough with myself to admit that i've I've been pretending to understand jazz my entire life, but I just, I don't.
00:02:45
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:02:57
Andrew
okay
00:02:57
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:02:58
Carl Lubbe
Have you been following along with ah Flea from the Chili Pepper? His project is like a jazz thing. And hes he's talking about the same thing. He was like, I felt so intimidated because I was, you know, just a punk rock kid from California.
00:03:10
Carl Lubbe
And he's putting out a jazz record around all these other jazz greats. And he said it's been one of the most redemptive things in his life because he he asked this question, like, could I play jazz?
00:03:14
Andrew
no
00:03:21
Carl Lubbe
Could I feel comfortable on the same stage with these guys? And he said the community of musicians that he's found come around have have been so receptive and warm and opening and welcoming that it's literally redeeming music for him at this stage of his career, which
Individuality and Early Education
00:03:36
Carl Lubbe
I thought was crazy.
00:03:36
Carl Lubbe
It's like maybe arguably the most famous bass player on the planet is going, this is redeeming music for me.
00:03:43
Andrew
Yeah, great bass player.
00:03:45
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:03:46
Andrew
Cool dude.
00:03:47
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:03:47
Andrew
Weird dude. um
00:03:50
Carl Lubbe
As most bass players are, let's be really honest, your bass player is typically going to be your eclectic guy in the group. Yeah.
00:03:56
Andrew
That's why i started playing, it was bass. It's my main instrument, so it checks out.
00:03:58
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. yeah It does. It does check out. So for those of our friends who are watching or listening, Andrew, I would love to know what was your origin story when it comes to being this hyper creative? And the way I'd like to phrase this question is, what would the eight year old version of Andrew? Because, you know, this is one of my favorite questions is like, you know, I'm on a rescue mission for everybody's inner eight year old.
00:04:27
Carl Lubbe
What would the inner eight year old version of you be like amazed by in your origin story when it comes to, you know, your work?
00:04:37
Andrew
I guess the inner eight-year-old would be amazed by the fact um I've been able to be mostly me throughout the course of um my life, my career, um despite
00:04:52
Carl Lubbe
Hmm. Hmm.
00:05:02
Andrew
um my dad's and mom's you know best, despite their hopes and dreams, you know um you know i it i'm able to be the, it's not so taboo anymore, but you know the guy with hands and neck tattoos who's um made a career in of several different disciplines of creativity. And I think the eight-year-old would be like, damn, I was hoping we could do that.
00:05:42
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:43
Andrew
That's cool. Because eight-year-old said,
00:05:45
Carl Lubbe
I like the potty mouth on your eight-year-old too. He's like, damn, yeah. okay
00:05:50
Andrew
can I cuss on here? That's not cuss.
00:05:52
Carl Lubbe
Oh yeah. You do whatever you want to, man.
00:05:54
Andrew
Right.
00:05:54
Carl Lubbe
People can mute it or fast forward, but I want you to be you.
00:05:54
Andrew
who
00:05:58
Andrew
um But yeah, because I was a weird eight-year-old too. I was like i was little. um I didn't have like a ton of friends. um I certainly wasn't very popular.
00:06:13
Andrew
And i was in up you know I was into art and starting to get into music. and
00:06:25
Andrew
That's, you know, I think that's when I got kicked out of
00:06:31
Andrew
middle school, no, elementary school the first time, which was is which is something, foraying JNCOs of all things.
00:06:35
Carl Lubbe
Oh, yeah.
00:06:40
Carl Lubbe
Oh, man, that's a throwback. My brothers love their JNCOs and their Dragon Ball Z shiny shirts. That was their go to, which is funny. Now you think of, you know, Dr. Jerome, live a neuro neurologist in his JNCO jeans and his long hair.
00:06:54
Andrew
Well, Jinkos are back too, so I think, you know, maybe Jerome should pull him back out.
00:06:56
Carl Lubbe
All right.
00:06:58
Carl Lubbe
I get back out of the clinic. I would pay good money to see that. So
00:07:02
Andrew
Yeah, but i I went to a, you know, private um Christian, like very, but what's the word for it? Straight-laced and just not a lot of tolerance for any kind of individualism and, you know,
00:07:19
Carl Lubbe
m
00:07:22
Andrew
I guess even at eight, somewhere around there, I still wanted to do um kind of get push on the limits of what was there.
00:07:28
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:07:31
Andrew
And it only took wearing JNCOs a couple of times and they threw my ass out. and My mom had to homeschool me, which I shit you not, this is a real story. It turned into, don't know,
00:07:31
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:07:47
Andrew
reading A Wrinkle in Time in the morning and watching Jerry Springer in the afternoon.
00:07:53
Carl Lubbe
Oh, my gosh. i did both of those things. Maybe not at that same season of life, but I remember seventh grade. Like you, you know, a little bit of an oddball. I immigrated from South Africa and then through Zaire to the States and got here in fifth grade. And they're like, we don't know what to do with this kid. And I was the opposite of you. i was kind of a big kid.
00:08:13
Carl Lubbe
So they're like, we'll just skip him ahead. So I was now, i don't know, like an 11 year old in seventh grade. And ah most of the work was still you know kind of easy. And I remember passing most of the 11th grade reading Madeleine Lengel's catalog, like going through a wrinkle in time, even to like then one offs like many waters and just going because your mind is just expanding. Like you'd never had somebody talk to you in like kind of these trippy ways. And it was kind of like approved by you know christians because madeline lingle somehow had been like co-opted inside with like c.s lewis and tolkien like this is okay but the other stuff is not and so i remember those days man just opening those books and just going whoa that is and then yeah you'd come home after school or you know when you were watching it i guess while you were at your school at your house and you're watching jerry springer and you're like how do these two things operate in the same world how does the whimsy and wonder of a madeline lingle
00:09:09
Carl Lubbe
And then somebody like throwing a shoe with their baby mama exists in the other world. And you're like, the the the discourse of those two things is crazy.
00:09:18
Andrew
Honestly, throughout ah elementary school and middle school is probably the best education I ever got, the Wrinkle in Time Jerry springer Springer curriculum, which is it's pretty avant-garde.
00:09:30
Carl Lubbe
That is an avant garde education.
00:09:30
Andrew
um
00:09:32
Carl Lubbe
So you've got kids now, would you prescribe the Jerry Springer, Madeline L'Engle education to them?
00:09:42
Andrew
It's not for everyone. I'll say that.
00:09:45
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:09:45
Andrew
No, I wouldn't because school is a lot different these days. And um my yeah know my daughter, Emma, is thriving.
00:09:50
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
Career Reinvention and Life's Unpredictability
00:09:57
Andrew
um And two boys, they're preschool.
00:09:57
Carl Lubbe
Oh, that's wonderful.
00:10:04
Andrew
So they just play and fight with each other all day. So...
00:10:07
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:10:08
Andrew
They got their own little Jerry Springer happening together.
00:10:10
Carl Lubbe
yeah You're doing the home version. You got the the at home game that you guys are playing. um So i'm I'm curious in this season of life for you know me and lots of other people who find themselves listening to podcasts. I think this idea of reinvention is so interesting because for our parents, it was this idea of work at the company for the 40 years, get the gold watch, get the pension. And that world quite literally doesn't exist anymore. There's no kind of real, you know, four decade company loyalty to an employee. And so there's really no way for an employee to be loyal to a brand or an idea in most places for that amount of time.
00:10:49
Carl Lubbe
which now requires this muscle of curiosity to go, well, how could I reinvent myself if something new is possible? And maybe more so than any of my other friends, like I've watched um both, you know, historically and you telling me that the history of your work before you and I met. And then even since there's this constant theme of intentional invention and reinvention of experimentation. And I'm curious about the cost of that.
00:11:17
Carl Lubbe
Because I look at somebody like you and, you know, let's just be honest, if we're going to look at two guys on the street and be like, who's the tastemaker and who's not? Okay, here's Andrew's tastemaker. So naturally he must have like a really confident voice and vision of where he's going. So that guy could reinvent himself. But if I'm a, you know, an accountant from the Midwest listening to this going, well, I couldn't do what that guy does.
00:11:40
Carl Lubbe
What do you think are the core elements that maybe everybody has that allow them to at least consider reinvention?
00:11:49
Andrew
Well, if I could say, first thing is, I don't i would say it hasn't been intentional. I would say I'm comfortable with it, but it's not intentional.
00:11:57
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:12:04
Andrew
It's always been out of necessity. There's always been some sort of um catalyst, usually a season coming to some kind of unexpected,
00:12:17
Andrew
mostly unwanted and was like, fuck, I gotta, what am I gonna do now?
00:12:20
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:12:23
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:12:24
Andrew
I gotta do something else. um And most times it was picking something. Like, I don't really know what that is.
00:12:39
Andrew
and don't really know how to do it, but I'm gonna go do it. And you know, that was that was playing guitar for me. That was, you know, deciding, know, really not to go to college or high school and go to the band.
00:12:58
Andrew
When the band collapsed, which, you know that story, it's not not the way you would think a band collapsed, but,
00:13:06
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Well, yeah, they're not typically sexy or fun. It's typically traumatic and heart-wrenching. And unfortunately your case, same.
00:13:12
Andrew
you know.
00:13:14
Andrew
Yeah, they don't typically involve, a you know, a church taking your name, but this one.
00:13:20
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, this is definitely unexpected, but equally heart-wrenching for sure.
00:13:24
Andrew
um but see And then I'd been doing that for 10 years and that was about to become our forever thing. That implodes. So what the hell am i going to do with the rest of my life? now I don't i don't want to I don't wanna go get like a regular job or something like that.
00:13:41
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:13:42
Andrew
So I was like, I like fashion, I think. I'll go to fashion school, I guess. you know And so I guess everything, the only intentionality, um you know I guess it's just been like picking it and then like going, just going all in on that.
00:14:04
Andrew
I think, um but I've never been satisfied in
00:14:11
Andrew
in that version of reinvention ever.
00:14:15
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:14:17
Andrew
And think it's because I learned it really young and I learned learned how exciting it can be.
00:14:23
Carl Lubbe
o
00:14:24
Andrew
How scary it is, but how exciting. And what would I say to you know the
00:14:33
Andrew
One example, you use the Midwest accountant.
00:14:35
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Like an accountant in the Midwest who's going, Hey, I i need something different, something new, something interesting.
00:14:41
Andrew
Let's think of all the reasons there like we tell ourselves to not do something. right it's It always comes down to, you know, um The money isn't right.
00:14:54
Andrew
or The money isn't there or you know soon as you know Soon as the kids get a little older and they're a little bit more stable or whatever, you know soon as my my marriage gets to this point soon as Soon as this much debt is paid down.
00:15:14
Andrew
It always comes back to It's not the right time I Think is what it comes down to
00:15:18
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. yeah
00:15:21
Andrew
Whichever way you cut it, it's not the right time. And the truth of the matter is there's never the right time to do anything. There's never the right time, like perfect magical time to have a kid.
00:15:38
Andrew
Like there's never the right time. i would say even to like get married. Like there's a lot in life that I think that, you know, the the guy in the Midwest that we don't even think about, that we just do, and that this is so similar to that.
00:16:01
Andrew
It's about the doing and and just just starting the thing. And
00:16:12
Andrew
there's only like We only get one of these lives, you know?
00:16:16
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:16:17
Andrew
Like it's it's it's too damn short to spend the whole thing, you know, a majority of our our day, if you work like that, doing something that bores you or doesn't fill you up because you're you're waiting for the weekend or you're waiting for retirement because
00:16:17
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:16:37
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:16:45
Andrew
That's a short season of life you compound your weekends in your retirement, if you even get it.
00:16:54
Andrew
you know like my My dad, and you thankfully he loved what he did, but he worked up until he was 70 years old. He retires, um you know has a little loss of identity there for a minute, but year in,
00:17:11
Andrew
He is loving his retirement, right?
00:17:13
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:17:14
Andrew
And look this is what, you know, he's been waiting for, right? This this freedom, this travel, these kinds of things. Boom, cancer, you know?
00:17:27
Andrew
Three weeks to live. It's like, you trade in all of that for for what on the back end, you know? And,
00:17:39
Andrew
Yeah, sorry. I'm like rambling.
00:17:41
Carl Lubbe
No, no, no, it's so helpful. And, you know, for our listeners, ah luckily your dad had a miraculous recovery and then gets an act two of that of going, oh, but wow.
00:17:47
Andrew
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:52
Carl Lubbe
Okay. So there's a new lease on life and going, how do i continue to enjoy the season? and And what a beautiful gift. And it it does lead me then to my second question, which is when it comes to either success or failure, because they're very slim margins between those two things, as you and I know, right?
00:18:08
Carl Lubbe
whether you're working in fashion or an agency or you're in a band, the difference between, you know, not going out on tour and being the opener to even being a headliner, the margins are so slim in success and failure and kind of the flipping the coin.
00:18:23
Carl Lubbe
If you look at the cost ledger, of what either your success and or things that you have viewed either in the moment or, you know, posthumously as failure, because most we don't really know when we're doing it right. We just, oh, I think this is going to be success if I get the client or I make the money or I do the thing.
00:18:39
Carl Lubbe
And then later on, you're like, oh, but I gave up this thing. And then vice versa is like, oh, i got fired or this season ended. That's failure. And then we look back on it in six months or five years and we're like, oh, my gosh, if that hadn't happened, I wouldn't have gotten this.
Success, Presence, and Happiness
00:18:54
Carl Lubbe
So with the margin of success and failure being so so near, what did either one of them cost you that maybe you didn't expect? So if you look at maybe a success in your 20s or 30s, what is something that it cost you that you didn't expect? And knowing that cost, would you still choose it willingly?
00:19:17
Andrew
So, I mean, you know the ah typical answer here is go, well, what is what a success anyways?
00:19:22
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:19:22
Andrew
you know likeda
00:19:23
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:19:23
Andrew
like We all have our different versions of success, right?
00:19:24
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:26
Andrew
But i'll I'll go with the,
00:19:33
Andrew
I'll zig from that and be like, we're gonna consider success like career growth, um milestones, like,
00:19:34
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:40
Carl Lubbe
Mm hmm.
00:19:44
Andrew
accolades whatever right like um what did I trade for that
00:19:47
Carl Lubbe
Sure.
00:19:52
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:19:52
Andrew
um I traded um too much time that in hindsight I know i didn't need trade and I traded traded too much self-worth
00:20:10
Andrew
handed it over to those i let control the time. um And
00:20:20
Andrew
it's a shitty lesson to learn, um but it's a really valuable one, especially if you have the opportunity to course correct.
00:20:32
Andrew
um Because, you know, I still was very fortunate with, you know, what my, um you know, in my profession to like, still got to spend afternoons with my daughters and things like that. but But the time demand, there was so much mental bandwidth that that pulls your presence away, right? Or it's it's this looming, know,
00:21:07
Andrew
what it's just this just this looming cloud of at any moment, your time can be ripped from you.
00:21:19
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:21:19
Andrew
And
00:21:23
Andrew
giving somebody the the power to make me believe that, I gave up a lot of time and self-worth.
00:21:36
Andrew
to um to get to where I am.
00:21:43
Carl Lubbe
With the loss of that you know trading time for identity and and worth, um what would either this version of Andrew say to that mid-30s version, or maybe even more fun, what would the 88-year-old version of Andrew say to the present version about identity and worth moving forward from this place?
00:22:07
Andrew
So what would this version say to the 30
00:22:10
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or if you want to skip that, just what is your 88 year old self telling you?
00:22:15
Andrew
I think I can do both um
00:22:16
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:22:19
Andrew
do both. Me right now would say,
00:22:24
Andrew
wouldn't say much different than just write it out because it's a valuable lesson. Because you you don't you don't know until you know. And there are a lot of lessons in life that are really, really fucking hard, that are really shitty, but you wouldn't be who you are without them. And you wouldn't find the greatness that is on the other side without them.
00:22:55
Andrew
Only thing I might say is like,
00:22:58
Andrew
do it like do it sooner. Maybe that was a little too much time.
00:23:00
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:23:01
Andrew
yeah um But um yeah, i wouldn't i wouldn't
00:23:02
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:09
Andrew
I wouldn't say do much different because it is valuable. Now the 88 year old self, which knock on wood, let's let's hope there is that version.
00:23:18
Andrew
um Man, I dwell on my own mortality way too much. It's horrible. Speaking of time.
00:23:18
Carl Lubbe
Yes, sir.
00:23:26
Carl Lubbe
Well, the curse of an artist, man. You guys are there to remind us that we are mortal, and so that requires you guys to think about it quite a lot.
00:23:33
Andrew
I think it's childhood trauma.
00:23:35
Carl Lubbe
yeah Well, also the breeding ground for great artistry, unfortunately. Mm-hmm.
00:23:41
Andrew
It was made very clear. It's a story for another time. um My 88 year old self would obviously tell me to relax.
00:23:51
Andrew
This stuff that's keeping me up at night that I'm so, have i've really deep worries about.
00:24:06
Andrew
would say just chill.
00:24:08
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:24:08
Andrew
Man, like, there's there's so much good happening.
00:24:09
Carl Lubbe
okay
00:24:16
Andrew
Like, be as present as you can for it because one day you'll be me, and I'm glad I'm here, but, like, look at my body. This kind of sucks now. Like, my kids, like, i don't get talk as much. They're not little and fun and playful anymore.
00:24:31
Andrew
I'm grateful to be here at 88 years old, but... It's a really special time in your life that you can worry away or you can work away or you can
00:24:45
Andrew
elsewhere. just
00:24:50
Andrew
be elsewhere
00:24:51
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, yeah. Never really there where you are. um It's fascinating, this idea that you're bringing up, I think most eloquently, at least to me recently, has been shared by Jimmy Carr.
00:25:03
Carl Lubbe
And I don't know if you know this guy is a comedian, but he's a stand-up from England.
00:25:07
Andrew
Oh yeah, the the in the like really wildly intelligent English dude.
00:25:13
Carl Lubbe
That's him. Yeah. And, you know, and the English have a way of doing this. So do the Irish. But it's like you're they're comedians. They're satirists. So wildly brilliant that you're like, oh, I'm not getting the joke, especially because Jimmy Carr has been kind of wrapped up in some pretty coarse humor for the last 30 years.
00:25:31
Carl Lubbe
And so, you know, some people have to get past this, but you're Stephen Fry's, you're Jimmy Carr's, you're Russell Brands. These guys are like when they get in a a serious place or even a semi-serious place and then they speak, you're like, oh, my gosh.
00:25:43
Carl Lubbe
And I love his definition of happiness because he talked about, you know, happiness is simply enjoying the passage of time. And, you know, another English philosopher from previous entry, Oscar Wilde, talked about life is far too serious or if far too important to take seriously, you know?
00:26:03
Andrew
Yeah.
00:26:05
Carl Lubbe
and Yeah.
00:26:05
Andrew
I love that one. That's that's one of my favorites.
00:26:08
Carl Lubbe
And it's one of these things that, you know, I couldn't agree more, you know, and I will do the eight year old and 88 year old question as often as I can, because part idea is like, and what I'm is what I'm doing with that excite the eight year old version of me.
00:26:23
Carl Lubbe
Would they be like, oh, i I want to I want to trade places with the 44 year old version of me and go live that day because look at what they're doing. They're being helpful. They're asking great questions. They're doing something that I never imagined I would get to do. And then the 88-year-old version of me is going, yeah, but just remember, be there now.
00:26:44
Carl Lubbe
Because the other thing Jimmy Carr said in one of his recent, you know, he does a lot of crowd work these days, and somebody had asked him about how they handle anxiety, and he, you know, was incredibly compassionate. And he said, twice a day, make sure your head is where your feet are.
00:26:59
Andrew
Twice day, make sure your head
00:27:01
Carl Lubbe
Your is where your feet are. And it's this idea, right? Because we don't think about this, but shame, you know, a lot of what we've talked about in this is childhood trauma and shame about like, oh, I could have done this or I should have done this. The word should is rooted in shame. So anytime you're thinking a should thing, there's a shame element and shame is always looking backwards.
00:27:21
Carl Lubbe
Then the other side of this is as a generation, as a populace, we've never been more anxious ever as a human race. And anxiety is always future forecasting, fear.
00:27:31
Carl Lubbe
And so most of the time we are backwards or forwards, but we're never present. We're never in the place where we're supposed to be. And so, you know, like you, the thing that I'm trying to do as much as I possibly can in the work with my kids, with my wife, with my friends is go, okay,
00:27:50
Carl Lubbe
The greatest gift I can give myself or anyone else is to be as fully present in this moment as humanly possible.
Managing Anxiety and Mental Health
00:27:59
Carl Lubbe
Full stop.
00:28:00
Andrew
it's It's my... i was having a conversation with my wife and...
00:28:09
Andrew
she had an interesting take on it. I was like, being present is like, it's all I think about. I'm always worried about being present, which is really ironic, you know? And i mean, she's so encouraging and loving, you know? She was like, well, I think that in itself, like,
00:28:29
Andrew
show us how devoted you are to presence and shows there is a big part of you that is staying present, which appreciate it deeply for that.
00:28:31
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:37
Andrew
But you know the other anxiety thing, like It can be such a thief, you know, I've, I've struggled with it massively my entire life. mean, like, see um I can't stop fidgeting.
00:28:50
Andrew
Like I, I wear these, I love these glasses because I mean, these are my glasses, but they're tinted.
00:28:50
Carl Lubbe
yeah yeah
00:28:56
Andrew
Like they're my social anxiety glasses, you know, like, so I can and stay a little, um, little hidden.
00:28:56
Carl Lubbe
no
00:29:00
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:29:03
Andrew
Um,
00:29:04
Carl Lubbe
Even on camera, there's a little hidden, there's a little mystique, which is good. Gives you a little safety.
00:29:08
Andrew
and But your lovely, wonderful brother is has taught me so much about that. Just like moving, like feel feel your
00:29:18
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:29:22
Andrew
your body, you know? and
00:29:24
Carl Lubbe
yeah I'd never thought about the thing until Jerome. So for those of you don't know, my brother is Dr. Jerome Libba, a neurologist, and talks brilliantly about these things. I didn't realize he's like one of the five kind of tenants to reduce anxiety is safe touch.
00:29:38
Carl Lubbe
And then people will go like, well, but I've got childhood trauma and I'm actually afraid of touch. He's like, yeah, but you can give yourself safe touch. And I was like, well, what does that mean? He's like, and because Jerome, I, you know, had had shared recently, like he is well acquainted and I knew he was well acquainted with anxiety, but he's had coping mechanisms for years and years to help other people with panic attacks and then even help himself.
00:29:59
Carl Lubbe
And he's like, just the act of like putting a hand on your chest and drawing a little circle on your chest instantly sends thousands of terabytes of information to your own brain that goes, I'm safe.
00:30:11
Carl Lubbe
I'm safe. This would never happen if I was unsafe. And it reduces, you know, the weight of that anxiety. And I just thought that was incredible. Like your own body can minister to your own mind about the pretend future that you're worried about and going, that's not real.
00:30:25
Carl Lubbe
This is real. This present moment is real.
00:30:26
Andrew
Yeah, mean, it's it certainly makes sense, you know, and I'm so glad he's like he taught me that and is teaching me that because what my body has been able to do it to itself, like my entire life is the opposite.
00:30:41
Andrew
You know, like I get all the the the fun anxiety symptoms, you know, like huge hypochondriac.
00:30:41
Carl Lubbe
Right.
00:30:49
Andrew
Like one time i had myself one billion percent convinced I had ALS. Nobody could talk me out of it.
00:30:57
Carl Lubbe
Wow. Wow.
00:30:59
Andrew
Nobody. And like i was manifesting the symptoms and doctors couldn't talk me out. was like, I do have it. I know it.
00:31:09
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:31:09
Andrew
you know And i it was all consuming.
00:31:10
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:31:12
Andrew
um And the only thing that pulled me out of it was signing a Reddit thread of a whole bunch of other people that were going through the same thing. But still I was like, yeah, but I think i think I'm the one.
00:31:24
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:26
Andrew
Yep.
00:31:28
Carl Lubbe
That American exceptionalism has found its way even to the individual brain of like, no, I'm the unicorn. i will be the Willy Wonka of this A.L.S. And I mean, but and it is just an incredible thing about our mind.
The Power of Questions in Life
00:31:41
Carl Lubbe
And this is, again, as a human, as a spouse, as a parent, as a as a worker being productive in the world. This is our most valuable asset. And we're not asking questions of like, is that a helpful question? Is that a helpful you know perspective? I think enough to go. And even if it is helpful, could it be a little bit more helpful or if it's dangerous, could it get a little less threatening if we ask this question?
00:32:04
Carl Lubbe
And so.
00:32:05
Andrew
Also, i didn't I didn't mean to make light ALS. a horrible, horrible thing.
00:32:08
Carl Lubbe
no no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, no.
00:32:09
Andrew
or it's a ah can't it's a horrible
00:32:12
Carl Lubbe
Terrific.
00:32:13
Andrew
thing
00:32:14
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, no. But I mean, to your point, though, it's it's it shows you what a prison our own mind can be if we're stuck in the loops of the same question, because your question became, OK, what do I do with my ALS as opposed to what if I have ALS?
00:32:29
Carl Lubbe
So like we had jumped down the track of where, you know, one question too deep and could back it up one. And then all of a sudden I'd remove the anxiety. And this is you know the idea of, you know even in our friendship, we've done this for the last couple of years, is how do we ask a better question for ourself, for our spouse, for our kids, for our work?
00:32:36
Andrew
Yep.
00:32:47
Carl Lubbe
And so with that in mind... I'd love to bring you, i guess, to the ultimate question that I want us to be asking on this podcast from now on is what do you think is a question or the question that somebody asked you in some season of your life or you asked yourself that quietly changed the direction of your life?
00:33:07
Carl Lubbe
What's a great question that has changed your life?
00:33:10
Andrew
Yeah, so we'll start with a Seinfeld moment here.
00:33:10
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. it's good So, sorry.
00:33:15
Andrew
Okay.
00:33:15
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:33:15
Andrew
um are you Are you familiar with Seinfeld?
00:33:16
Carl Lubbe
mother Big fan. Big fan.
00:33:19
Andrew
Okay. Awesome. so there's a moment. It's the episode where Elaine's got this English boyfriend um and he's got like this Armani suit.
00:33:33
Andrew
He's like giving away for some reason, right?
00:33:35
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:33:36
Andrew
And he gives it to Jerry. Jerry doesn't really want it. And so somehow, wait, it's the other way around. What, it's the other way around, Kenny Banya ends up giving a suit um to to Jerry, right? And so then there's this funny interaction where he has to take him to to dinner at Mindy's.
00:34:03
Andrew
um And Kenny Banya's like all obsessed with how like buff he's getting, you know? He's like, he can't stop talking about how he's working out. He's, you know, we're at dinner. He's going, Jerry, do you lift weights, Jerry? Do you lift weights?
00:34:18
Andrew
Jerry's like, no. And he goes, you should. Jerry goes, why? and you just see this Kenny Banyan's look on his face like his whole entire existence has been challenged.
00:34:32
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:34:33
Andrew
You know, like, why?
00:34:35
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:34:35
Andrew
to To me, that's that's the question. Like, oh, we got to... We gotta double our revenue next quarter. Why?
00:34:48
Andrew
we you know we we need We need to put more time and energy into to this so that it results in in this. Why?
00:34:59
Carl Lubbe
oh
00:35:02
Andrew
What the fuck? Like why? Why?
00:35:03
Carl Lubbe
i
00:35:04
Andrew
Why?
00:35:04
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:35:04
Andrew
You know? And it There's not a good, most people don't have a good answer at the end of that.
00:35:14
Carl Lubbe
Yeah,
00:35:16
Andrew
You know, let's say, it a well, let's bring back the money. Well, I wanna make more money, you know, and this, that, and the other, and da da da da, da, so, you know, one day I can eventually retire, and then my time is time my own. It's like, you could do that. You could do that now. Like, though, like, why?
00:35:38
Carl Lubbe
yeah yeah Yeah.
00:35:40
Andrew
And.
00:35:40
Carl Lubbe
and the And the beauty of that exercise, right. Is it, you know, the five whys of you ask, why do you want to work out? Well, I guess to get fit. Okay. So why do you want to get fit?
00:35:52
Carl Lubbe
I don't know. I guess I'd like to attract somebody else to be with me. Well, why do you think they'd be attracted to that? I don't know. Why would that be the kind of person you want to be with? i don't I don't know.
00:36:04
Carl Lubbe
So is your, this more about loneliness or about health and fitness And yeah and like you said, the five whys gets us to at least ah a level lower and a level lower as to is this actually what I want to give my attention to? Because all of life is three things, attention, intention and commitment.
00:36:22
Carl Lubbe
And if I'm giving my attention to the wrong problem, then I'm giving my intention to something that is climbing the ladder on the wrong wall. And eventually I will get a result that I was never actually
Averso Co's Vision and Mission
00:36:33
Carl Lubbe
committed to. And this is where people are resentful and bitter. And so, like you said, it's having those powerful questions. And I think this is what's so interesting about now the season you find yourself in. as you start your new firm, I'd want to know from you, like as somebody who's been in the agency world now for a long time and has created incredible creatives, we were fortunate enough to get to work together on a pecan campaign for a while, and that's how we knew each other more professionally.
00:37:00
Carl Lubbe
What was the question you're trying to answer with the new Averso Co? All
00:37:08
Andrew
So the new question, that's a good question. The new question is, So we talked about this to begin with, right? Like first there was was music and then there was fashion design and then in the agency space and somewhere along the line, I picked up, you know, different versions of and industrial design.
00:37:30
Andrew
You know at the agency, um you know, my superpower, so to speak, was like brand identity, right?
00:37:37
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:37:38
Andrew
and So it's like, oh, there's this there' was this there's this it was this, and there's this, and there's this, and
00:37:47
Andrew
you look at it from inside of it, it's like they're all their own separate tracks, right? And it's like, well, pick which one are you're gonna do. You're gonna do the jewelry company, go all in on that.
00:38:01
Andrew
You're gonna do the agency, go all in on that. You're gonna do the interiors thing, go all in on that. um The question became
00:38:13
Andrew
Why can't these all work together?
00:38:17
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:38:19
Andrew
And if they can, how, you know?
00:38:24
Carl Lubbe
o Yeah, and what a fun thing, because at that point, it feels like you haven't like lost anything. It's bringing inside everything inside the same playground and go, you can play on all of these.
00:38:36
Carl Lubbe
There's monkey gyms, you know monkey bars over there, there's a swing over there, there's a slide over here. And so as opposed to, well, you have to pick one, it's like, well, but what if we could create something that was inclusive of all of those possibilities?
00:38:49
Andrew
ye
00:38:50
Carl Lubbe
So with this, I'd love to hear a little bit more. um what is What is this next iteration doing? how How do people interact with it? What problem is it kind of solving? If I were interested in it, how how do I find out more? All those sorts of things.
00:39:05
Andrew
Yeah, so, um you know, um A Verso code really is a vessel to to bring beautiful ideas into complete form.
00:39:22
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:39:22
Andrew
Right.
00:39:22
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:39:23
Andrew
And so it's, it's this creative house where, you know, the traditional, like there's there's strategy and brand identity, but there's also the physical objects and the and spaces, you know, interiors, architecture is where it's where all of this overlaps and converges and like the work that moves across language and form and environment as this like single system um like think of it this way like the um the identities whether it's for a client or for one of our own you know original ip brands that we launch like those established point of view
00:40:11
Andrew
the spaces and the objects, like they make it and make it real, right? And so this is a place where you know brand and and product, they aren't treated as these separate disciplines.
00:40:27
Andrew
they're They're reinforcing each other. and we're able to establish our point of view and and taste and um hopefully also just you know make ah make a big impact with our own like original IP.
00:40:50
Andrew
And in turn, we hope to attract like-minded people, um friends that we can build great identities for as we launch the jewelry line, the the furniture, the the handbags, you know, um which are all their own their own unique identity that are all housed under VersoCo.
00:40:58
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:41:23
Carl Lubbe
Amazing. So if we were to play a game, and we'll wrap up with this, will be the last question, and I'll stop peppering you with questions. In five years from now, for you and for AversoCo, who would be sitting at the table as like a partner slash client slash, you know, thought person next to you who's been attracted to this idea that you would be absolutely out of your mind excited that they have partnered with you in the journey, that they were attracted to the vision and say, hey, we want to be a part of that. Who's sitting around the table that you're excited about?
00:41:54
Andrew
So I've got a few super talented people that
00:42:00
Andrew
it's, you that's coming to fruition, but the the definitive answer there is my wife.
00:42:03
Carl Lubbe
moving
00:42:06
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, come on.
00:42:07
Andrew
So if there's nobody else left sitting at the table in five years time, it's, it's her.
00:42:09
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:42:12
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:18
Andrew
And, and
00:42:19
Carl Lubbe
Amazing.
00:42:23
Andrew
We just want enough, right?
00:42:25
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:26
Andrew
One, That's kind of what
00:42:27
Carl Lubbe
And for you and her, who who is who is the person that you're serving? Who's the person that you're partnering with that they're like, I needed this. And Andrew and his wife are the answer to that. Who's come to the table based on what you and her are creating.
00:42:46
Andrew
that's kind of the what That's kind of the fishing line we're throwing out right now, but it's it's essentially those that are are lacking that strong identity piece.
00:42:53
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:43:03
Andrew
There's not industry, there's not a vertical, it's ah it's a personality type that it knows this strong identity is is what they need and it's not something
00:43:06
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:43:18
Andrew
they can provide for themselves, which is not a slight on them. It's nearly impossible for anyone.
00:43:23
Carl Lubbe
No, they're great at something else.
00:43:25
Andrew
you i i can get I can't do it for for myself, right?
00:43:25
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, you're too close to it.
00:43:30
Carl Lubbe
Right.
00:43:31
Andrew
Like I can do it for for products I create, but you're when you're you're too close to it, you can't can't see
00:43:31
Carl Lubbe
You're too close to it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Creativity, Identity, and Collaboration
00:43:37
Andrew
it.
00:43:37
Andrew
But it's it's so important um because ah the why there is, We believe that identities are like a strong, confident, clarified identity is fundamental to the success of literally anything. that's That's the why.
00:43:57
Andrew
And so there's there's impact there when you can partner with really great friends, great people, um and help them build that so that they can they can step into the world with what they have to offer confidently and clearly because so many great ideas, so many great concepts never see the light of day or get squashed because they're missing that piece.
00:44:10
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:44:26
Carl Lubbe
amazing
00:44:26
Andrew
How many great people step into a room with a beautiful idea and their mind and a story to tell and don't ever get to express that because their identity doesn't allow them to
00:44:43
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, it's so true. We talked about in the band in my 20s, we said, you know, most people go to their graves with their songs still inside. And we refused to do that. That was kind of the clarion call of the band.
00:44:56
Carl Lubbe
And the world needs um you know more Willy Wonkas. It needs more people who are going, this idea might be insane, but the world needs more magic. It needs more whimsy.
00:45:06
Carl Lubbe
It means needs more ideas that come to life as opposed to going to the grave. And so I'm just incredibly grateful, Andrew, that somebody like you exists to help those things come to life and to bring those brands and those things to fruition.
00:45:12
Andrew
with it.
00:45:19
Carl Lubbe
Because I think a little bit, this is what makes us crazy as humans, right? We're these sentient animals. who have agency and then it feels like, well, you do have agency, but you don't actually have community or resources or ways to bring these ideas to life. And so, of course, we start to go a little crazy when we kind of execute on all of this magic and whimsy that just wants to come out and see the light of day.
00:45:44
Andrew
Speaking of Willy Wonka, that's Pure Imagination is one of my favorite songs of all time.
00:45:48
Carl Lubbe
Oh, yeah.
00:45:48
Andrew
Put it up there in top 10. you know
00:45:51
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, same.
00:45:52
Andrew
Maybe we can play it as the credits roll here.
00:45:54
Carl Lubbe
<unk>ll do it. We'll absolutely do that. All right. And then the last thing i'll I'll ask from you, and this won't be on the podcast, but this will kind of be our closing tradition is over the next week, I would love to think, I'd love for you to think, what's the best question someone's ever asked you?
00:46:09
Carl Lubbe
And then I'm going to pose it to the next person on the pod when I have them on. So, but man, I appreciate you so much. Thanks for taking the time. This was an absolute blast as it always is. You're a treasure and a gift.
00:46:19
Andrew
Amen.
00:46:20
Carl Lubbe
Thank you, man.
00:46:20
Andrew
Love you, buddy. You are too. You've made
00:46:24
Andrew
such an impact on my life. It's radical. And not like the cool, like, like, so search, search right here. It's like, it's made a radical difference in my life.
00:46:35
Andrew
So.
00:46:35
Carl Lubbe
Well, it's been a joy and you're worth it. So thanks, man. Appreciate you being here.
00:46:39
Andrew
Brother, love you.
00:46:40
Carl Lubbe
Love you too.