Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 13: They Said Don't Mix Business and Friends. He Ignored That. A conversation with Sam Primm.
36 Plays2 months ago
Most people were told the same thing growing up. Keep work and friendship separate. Don't mix business and pleasure. Play it safe. Sam Primm heard all of that and quietly decided to do the opposite.
Sam has 3.5 million followers, 2000 real estate deals, and a team of 55 people, about 15 of whom he's known since elementary school. His business partner Lucas has been his best friend for 25 years. They've painted houses for beer money, got into bar fights in college, and now they run a real estate and education company together. Eight-year-old Sam would lose his mind.
In this episode, we dig into what it actually takes to build a business with the people you love, why culture beats credentials every time you hire, how to stop "shoulding" on yourself and start asking better questions, and why the thing you keep putting off is probably exactly what you need to do next.
Sam's also one of the most genuinely generous people I've come across online, and the conversation proves it.
So here's the question I want to leave you with. You've been told your whole life to keep it professional and keep your distance. But what if the people who already know you, trust you, and would run through a wall for you are exactly the team you've been looking for?
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Sam Prim
00:00:01
Carl Lubbe
Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of One Great Question. And my guest today is really surprising because The sheer volume of what he's done and continues to do makes me tired just reading them, nevermind actually thinking, how would you do it? How would you come up with the questions to create it? And so our guest today is Sam Prim, who is an incredible real estate educator, mind, business leader out of the Midwest.
00:00:30
Carl Lubbe
And he's got at this point, I think like three and a half million followers online. They've done over 2000 real estate deals and something like 50 million, I think in you know kind of transaction and revenue. But more than that, Sam's probably one of the most fun dudes I've ever met. So a lot of times you may not, you know intersection of real estate and super fun. But the first time I hung with Sam in a professional environment, he was busy like getting ready for a big important webinar. And his first choice was, or first question was, Hey, Carl, what's your favorite bourbon in the office? Because we're going to make sure everybody's having a good time. And so I want to introduce everybody to Sam Prim.
00:01:10
Sam Primm
I appreciate that was a good intro. Excited to chop it up with you. And yeah, why wouldn't you have a good time, right? Might as well, if you can do fun, you can you can accomplish a lot and have a good time at the same time.
00:01:16
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
Fun and Productivity at Work
00:01:22
Carl Lubbe
It's very interesting you talk about that because one of the first things I will tell executives or companies when I meet with them is I'll ask, how much fun are you having on a scale of one to 10?
00:01:33
Carl Lubbe
And it's very strange because I'll do this everything from a SaaS company all the way to places like Lululemon. And these are grown adults going, hold on, aren't we paying this consultant a lot of money? Why is he asking us how much fun we're having? And in this idea, it's, you know, the research shows you are so much more productive. You're so much more likely to attract great talent and build to a really good culture if there's a high fun factor. I mean, this is literally why things like Glassdoor reviews were created because they're going, hey, people are being productive, but they hate it. And so they're being less productive. And so the metric then becomes, we we say, if you're not having a good time, you're probably doing something wrong.
Working with Long-Time Friends
00:02:10
Carl Lubbe
And Sam, when I came across you, i was like, man, this guy's doing a lot of stuff right. He's having a good time. He's doing really good work. He's helping a ton of people. So the question I'd love to start off with you first is let's go way back.
00:02:24
Carl Lubbe
And so if if we were to get to have a chat, as you said, chop it up with eight-year-old Sam, Looking at current day, Sam, what would the eight-year-old version of you be excited or um like wowed by that the current version of you is getting to do? And it doesn't have to do with the money or the stuff, but what thing would be like, oh my gosh, we get to do this or you did that? What what would they be surprised by?
00:02:50
Sam Primm
I think eight year old me would be surprised and delighted in the fact that I go to work every day with my friends. Right. i don't I don't think anybody or not anybody, but not that many people get to say that maybe you become friends with the people you work with and maybe you go to happy hour and maybe you hang with them on weekends or whatever.
00:03:03
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:03:07
Sam Primm
And that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. But I'm working with my like. elementary school, middle school, high school and college friends. We have 55 team members right now.
00:03:17
Sam Primm
And I would say 15 of them are people that I've known for years and years before they came to work with my business partner, Lucas and I. um Andrew, one of our our dispositions rep for our flipping company, I met him in kindergarten and had been riding my bike to his house and went to middle school and high school and college with him.
00:03:34
Sam Primm
i mean, Lucas, my business partner, we've been best friends for 25 years.
00:03:34
Carl Lubbe
Sure.
00:03:37
Sam Primm
We got in bar fights in college together. We fought each other a little bit. We owned like a painting business where we paint in the summers for houses for beer money, um you know, went through all of those things together. Right. So I think the coolest thing would be like, you actually get to work with your friends because, you know, my dad was an engineer, worked for Boeing, a big company and, you know, kind of kept to himself and don't really see the work friends. It's work and work and family is separate. But we have melded work, family and friends together. I think that'd be the thing I'd be like, whoa, you get to work with your best friends every day. That's cool.
00:04:08
Carl Lubbe
That's amazing. So I would imagine people hearing that even somebody who might be wired to be in entrepreneurship or other leaders who are maybe have had a friend come to them and said, Hey, could I come and work for you? And they're like, ah, I've heard for forever. Don't mix business and pleasure, personal and professional life. What question would you say you and Lucas asked each other to make sure that the friendship stayed intact and wasn't damaged by the business?
00:04:37
Sam Primm
Yeah, that's a good question because, yeah, we're lot of friends working here and it can go south. And we've we've had a couple of really good friends that we've had to either shift to a different role or just kind of but you know both move on you know ah you know the right way.
00:04:50
Sam Primm
So I think the biggest thing was we would always said the friendship would come first.
00:04:51
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:04:54
Sam Primm
I remember specifically Lucas and I had dinner at was like an Applebee's type place, like a little sports bar. Before we got started, we were setting our goals of we want to buy 10 rental properties in 10 years, so one rental a year.
00:05:06
Sam Primm
And that was kind of our goals. And then we bought a few and then we had dinner again. And we're like, we feel like we're doing some pretty cool things and we're going to go some, some cool places and we want to build this.
00:05:17
Sam Primm
Do we bring our friends and family and people we love along with us? Or do we keep it separate like everybody tells you to do? And we decided, obviously, to to do do the former and take everybody along with us. And I think the biggest thing is just setting the expectations. and And I look at it as the right person. Not all of our friends work for us. The right person, the right friend, the right role with the right expectations can can be a beautiful thing because our friends will run through a wall with us, right? we've we've We've all been out doing things together for a long time. And I can teach the skills. So if the culture is already there,
00:05:52
Sam Primm
Then I feel like the rest we can teach and train and maybe even fortunately right now, we're able to kind of move people roles within the kind of subsets of our companies to get the right fit where everybody's happy. um So I think that's the biggest thing for us is having those clear expectations and then just communicating throughout the process of what's working, what's not working and trying to get the right people in because I can't tell you how many people you hire and.
00:06:15
Sam Primm
Great interview, great references, seems like a culture fit. And two months in, you're like, what happened? Right. You know, you never know. It's always you can do as much pre-work as you can, but it's always kind of a crapshoot. So we know that it's not going to be that when we hire the the people that we we've been around, we might have to fix the role and maybe the role didn't work out, but we know the culture
Leadership Strategies and Meeting Cadences
00:06:34
Sam Primm
is there.
00:06:34
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, it's so good. I was had the fortune of being in the room a little while ago with you know a billionaire who got to make a billion dollars by selling chicken.
00:06:46
Carl Lubbe
And so you know this is the Chick-fil-A Corporation. And Dan... was talking to us about this idea that we're always hiring for three things in this order. It's capacity. Can you do the job? And like you said, that's kind of the easiest thing. I can teach you how flip a house. I can teach you how to you know run a really great Chick-fil-A.
00:07:05
Carl Lubbe
The next thing is, and and it's more important than capacity, is chemistry. Do you want to operate at the same speed that we do? is Does this feel fun? Is it too fast? Is it too slow? is or That's the chemistry thing. Does it make sense? And I think the thing you've kind of, you know, relationally hacked, which might be a you know a cheat code for other people to learn from, is you've asked this question, is this friend of mine a person of deep character? Like I've seen them since kindergarten or middle school or high school or through college. And nobody's perfect, but do I trust them to do the hard thing when nobody's looking? I have 10 years of experience now with this person to know that, you know, 99 out of a hundred times they're going to do the right thing. And the time they don't do the right thing, they're going to bring it to me and be like, Hey, help me get out of this mess. I shouldn't have done this. Let's course correct. And so I think that's amazing that you found a place where um you can have people who, like you said, that character is established. And then the second thing, i don't know if our listeners quote this, so i want to highlight it, is it is making expectations move from implicit, implied, secret, quiet, like, oh, I get this, they get this, surely. And it's like, no, no, no, nobody ever said it.
00:08:11
Carl Lubbe
moving it from implicit to explicit. Like we said the thing out loud, Hey, what do what do we want from our first 10 flips ah a year then? Okay. How different is that from having 55 teammates and running something that's doing, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars eventually. And so those expectations change. And so my question for you would be, and I've gotten to see this one firsthand in your office with your staff and at how many conversations happen.
00:08:39
Carl Lubbe
When and and how are you and and Lucas still having those conversations today to kind of check in and reset the expectation? Because in my work, we talk about expectations are experiments. They're constantly shifting. i mean, you've been how how long have you guys been married now? Not you and Lucas, you and your wife.
00:08:56
Sam Primm
Me my wife have been married since 2012, so going on 14 years.
00:09:00
Carl Lubbe
Amazing. So congrats. But a lot changes in 14 years, right? So we know with our spouses, with our kids, with our friends, with our colleagues, we need to reset the expectations all the time because it's an experiment. Things are shifting underneath the ground of that expectation.
00:09:14
Carl Lubbe
So what has been your cadence either personally with Lucas or with your team or in the culture to reset those expectations to make sure you're asking new questions?
00:09:24
Sam Primm
Yeah, i think the biggest thing that we have set up now is we have we have truly two levels of management. We have our operators that operate the the multiple businesses that we own.
00:09:35
Sam Primm
And then we have like mid-level managers now that those people report to. So I think the biggest thing is Lucas and I still, we host a monthly all-team meeting where we you know talk to the people and get to know everybody, but there are legitimately people and 55 team members is not a ginormous company, right?
00:09:50
Sam Primm
But it's it's it's coming from where it came from.
00:09:52
Carl Lubbe
Hmm.
00:09:53
Sam Primm
It's pretty cool. But there's some people that I don't even interview or know until they're hired because they're not in kind of my subset of what I focus on. So the biggest thing that we do is we have a meeting every Monday with the leaders of our company and our CFO and our and our HR manager.
00:10:06
Sam Primm
And we kind of go over everything, quick metrics of each company. We kind of mastermind and talk through issues and and those types of things. But we can set the clear message there that then can be cascaded down to the mid-level managers, to everybody in the company.
00:10:21
Sam Primm
So aside from our once a month time where we're in front of everybody, we're not able to have that intimate relationship with everybody like we did when there was five people there or 10 people there or 20 people there. So as we grow, it's very important for us to get the right leaders in place and to set the expectation with them, um any shifts, any things that are needed, anything we want to focus on and make sure that's clearly articulated to them and they have the right systems, processes and ability to clearly articulate that kind of down the line.
00:10:31
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm.
00:10:47
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, that's wonderful. And so for you, how do you feel like the cadence has changed either when things are really busy and good, or maybe the market shifts and you have to adjust your guys reaction to it? what What is kind of the rhythm of those meetings and the questions that maybe you guys are asking of each other at that upper leadership space?
00:11:07
Sam Primm
Yeah, i think the biggest thing is making sure that the the teams are operating with like the word you use, the right chemistry, kind of having the right, the right expectations, the right sense of urgency, and just talking through those and getting updates on on the team and what's happening there.
00:11:22
Sam Primm
And Lucas and I meet ah about once a week. Sometimes we skip that meeting, but let's say two to three times a month where Lucas and I just meet and kind of talk about our subsets of the business. Because we have four different companies that we oversee and operate and own, and we've kind of divided and conquered.
00:11:34
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:11:39
Sam Primm
I i haven't been to a a education or i haven't been to a property management company meeting in probably two years. So i don't i mean I don't know anything except the top line numbers I get every Monday morning in our meeting. And he probably has been to three education company meetings in the past you know a couple of years. So we truly do divide and conquer. And that just comes from the trust within Lucas and I that we don't both need to be in the same room. We're wasting time actually. It's nice to have the other person's opinion on things. And if we're both there, maybe every decision's a little bit more clear. but we can make way more decisions if we're not both in the same room because we can both kind of separate. So I think that in a roundabout way, not exactly answering your question, I think is is a big part of it. And just having the understanding that, you know, we're bringing the right people and we're bringing in the right culture. And if if things go south, which they have, we've had really bad months in some of our companies where, you know,
00:12:29
Sam Primm
Might not be a big number. a lot of people will lose 80 grand this month in of the companies. That's a lot of money. So that that's when we usually will come together or I'll hop in or we'll we'll get the leaders and Lucas and I in a meeting and and try to really dissect what the problem is and come up with a clear solution with, you know, cadences. And that's when we bring our brains together, which is right, wrong or indifferent. But that's usually when our brains come together, when things are going south or maybe a little late after they've gone south. So that's really when we're together.
00:12:56
Carl Lubbe
But I think you're highlighting for all of us and you know who are leaders or in positions of management or who are just interested in the subject in general, it's going, what's the question worth asking? And the first one you highlighted was, do I need to be in this meeting?
00:13:10
Carl Lubbe
And again, you know, there are ah companies who waste a metric ton of really high end capital in terms of people capital talent. And I like to break everything down to kind of like an hourly rate.
00:13:22
Carl Lubbe
So if you're paying somebody, and this is always a fun question, if you're paying somebody $100,000 a year, do you know what their hourly rate is?
00:13:28
Sam Primm
I do not know.
00:13:30
Carl Lubbe
So it's just half. So i'm I'm not a good math person. So that makes life really simple, but it breaks down to basically that's a $50 an hour person. And so the quick question then becomes, if you know hypothetically you and Lucas are you know hoping to make, i don't know, half a million dollars a year. Well, that's $250 an hour for you to be in the meeting. you're like, would I have paid somebody else $250 for that hour to be in this meeting if they don't touch anything? And you're like, no, that'd be an incredible waste of time. so The question then becomes, am I valuable to this meeting and its outcome? And so I think it's incredibly encouraging and helpful to see leaders asking that question, going, I don't have to be in this meeting just because I'm supposed to be. Because that's the other problem, right? It's like, well, I own the company. Shouldn't I be in every meeting? Shouldn't I know everything that's going on? No, we should create infrastructure that reports back to me. And then when there is a need, like a downturn of an 80K month, I can jump in and be helpful because All of a sudden, in my mind, now I'm going, oh, that's somebody's year salary that we just lost in
Social Media Strategy and Sacrifices
00:14:30
Carl Lubbe
a month. Okay, i need to jump in and and be helpful to to go and get that revenue back. So that's, you know, I wouldn't expect anything less, again, having been in the office and seeing you guys operate and being hands in. And one of the things I would say, if you haven't checked out Sam, along with three and a half million other people on social is, you can tell that there's a real sense of community and connectivity and belief in the work that you guys are doing. I think all of those things are hyper important and in order to attract your friends, not just say, well, I like Sam, so I'll work for him.
00:14:58
Carl Lubbe
I don't really know or care about real estate. Yeah, but we're not just doing real estate. We're helping people find new homes. We're helping people find their you know kind of financial future inside a new education platform, learning a new trade and a skill. And so I think all of those things are incredible. I will ask,
00:15:16
Carl Lubbe
For somebody coming new to you, so it's one of the you know millions of people, not one of the millions of people yet who found you on the internet and follow you you know ah consistently, they might pop up on your YouTube or your TikTok or your Instagram and see you know hundreds of thousands and then millions of views and go, okay, this is what success looks like. I want that. How do I learn how to post and become famous and you know or relevant in my niche?
00:15:41
Carl Lubbe
And I think a lot of times in our culture, nobody really counts the cost of There's so many times that you're you know having to do this in the dark where nobody's watching and you're doing the hard work and all that stuff. So the question that I would have around this, kind of like yeah our second question on our podcast is always, when it comes to success, what is something, a cost that may so have surprised you? Like if you look back at the last now, however many years you've been doing this thing inside real estate,
00:16:09
Carl Lubbe
What's something that it costs you that may have surprised you? And if you got to choose from today with what you know, would you pay that price again?
00:16:18
Sam Primm
Yeah, I think a big cost of what has, I think, led to whatever level of success I've had is I don't have as much time as I would think for things outside of my work, my businesses and my family.
00:16:37
Sam Primm
I don't golf as much as I'd like to. i don't go on vacation as much as I'd like to. I've kind of set aside that fun bucket. I kind of look at it as you got your fun bucket, your work bucket and your family bucket. And I've sacrificed to a certain degree the fun bucket. I i always say, you know, I only golf 15 times this year. And then the next year it's, oh, I golf 12 times. And then last year I golf twice. So it's it's one of those things where those things tend to get sacrificed. But I...
00:17:05
Sam Primm
have created, at least in my mind, maybe not in reality, the fact that I get more joy out of growing my businesses and and going to work with my friends and family. And then I get more joy out spending with my family than I would out of shooting a 65 on the golf course.
00:17:20
Sam Primm
Not that I could ever do that, but I've, I've created joy
00:17:22
Carl Lubbe
65, 165 for Carl. There you go. hundred and sixty five for carl
00:17:26
Sam Primm
100, yeah, that might be on nine holes. um So yeah, i've I've been able to get enough joy, at least I've told myself that, out of the two things. I can't be a good husband and father, a good business owner, and have a ton of free time, in my opinion, to do act and perform at the level that I want.
00:17:43
Sam Primm
So I've sacrificed that side, but it's not really a sacrifice because I get, I believe more joy out of the two buckets I focus on than I would out of the third bucket anyway. So I would definitely relive that.
00:17:53
Carl Lubbe
Thank
00:17:55
Sam Primm
And just to kind of quickly touch on your point of all the work that's done in the dark and all of those things, I looking back, I don't think, I don't know if I would have realized how much it has taken to get that many followers and that much reach.
00:18:07
Sam Primm
Cause I, can't tell you how many times I would go live in front of three people for an hour and before people, you know, I'll go in live with me. And then, for a month, then it'd be eight, and then it'd be 12, and just consistently continually doing it and posting videos that get 80 views, and the next one gets 120, then the next one gets 60.
00:18:24
Sam Primm
So just that lack of traction that happens, especially specifically when we're talking about that social media growth and and trying to create a brand, it's it's wild looking back at how much time I spent on my phone and how much content and videos I created that didn't get reach in order to get the reach that was needed. So kind of a two-parter, like kind of piggyback on, but yeah, that, that was pretty wild as well.
00:18:47
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. And so, you know, and you you don't have to answer this, but I would love to know. Based on now looking back and going, I did have to spend this much time and I did have to do this. I think it's different with the I'm spending time with Lucas and my friends at the company, because that at least feels like I'm with somebody. But a little bit with the social media, it's like, man, I just grinding kind of in the lab by myself, kind of head down.
00:19:10
Carl Lubbe
Do you think you would pay that price again? If you somebody said, hey, go back, I don't know, 10 years, and it'll it'll work out. Like you have the knowledge that it'll work out, but it's not going to feel good. You're going to have to do this thing. Would you go and and pay that that bill again?
00:19:25
Sam Primm
If you asked me that two years ago, i probably would have said yes. If you asked me that now, probably no, just because the social media, as we alluded to before we kind of hopped on and started chatting and recorded, social media and has really aided my business from like 2021 to 2023, 2024 timeframe.
00:19:41
Sam Primm
It really just carried the bacon in that. and now It's just not near as important.
00:19:43
Carl Lubbe
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:19:46
Sam Primm
I'm getting similar views. I'm getting similar followings and everything's, if you just look at the metrics on social media, pretty similar, but you know, it's not leading to as much revenue. It's not leading to as much because of multiple factors, the business environment, the the real estate environment, and just the general economy.
00:20:03
Sam Primm
So um looking back, for a couple of years it would've been worth it. But now I'm like, I could have spent a lot of that time maybe developing better systems and processes to help other businesses or attract people.
00:20:14
Sam Primm
Just a lot of people in my space just attract people through ads and they have really good funnels and systems that able to monetize it that way.
00:20:20
Carl Lubbe
Okay.
00:20:20
Sam Primm
I leaned on social media so hard, I never had to really do ads and the ads I did didn't perform, but it didn't matter because we were we were doing so well organically and had that like knowing trust from people that we were able to be very, very profitable and have high margins.
00:20:20
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:34
Sam Primm
because we didn't have to spend that time. So to answer your question, as ah as it depends when you're asking me that right now, I maybe would reconsider. But you know a couple of years ago, that was that was carrying everything.
00:20:45
Sam Primm
So then ah it was worth it.
00:20:46
Carl Lubbe
and
00:20:47
Sam Primm
But I'm just going to keep doing it now. I feel like I'm too far over. I'm too far out on the plank. I have to just keep walking until we figure it out.
00:20:53
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:20:54
Sam Primm
I can't stop now.
00:20:55
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Well, and to your point earlier, before we jumped on the the part, it was this idea of these things are so cyclical that, you know, I think the future for all people who are creating a but business is having some sort of brand id identity, some personal brand identity.
Guru vs. Guide: Sam's Approach
00:21:11
Carl Lubbe
And so for people just to continue to using your phrase, know, like and trust you, it's going, OK, well, there will be up and downturns in real estate. But through the through thread of all that is I know, like and trust Sam.
00:21:23
Carl Lubbe
So if he's the person to kind of help guide me through this, then, you know, it still seems like, at least to me, a super wise investment. I am interested from your perspective, having been neck deep and sometimes drowning in the world of social media to make your business run.
00:21:39
Carl Lubbe
I see a massive difference between gurus and guides. And I think in your space, this is super prevalent, right? Because I mean, you will see people trying to sell a course and then they're like, look at me, I'm amazing. And then you're like, well, it feels a little bit like you're going to drop a 12 point plan and then just disappear and then be like, if I fail, well, that's on me.
00:21:58
Carl Lubbe
And then I feel like yours, at least to me, the sense of the brand and who I know you to be as a person feels a little bit more like a guide. Do you see a difference in that for you personally?
00:22:08
Sam Primm
Yeah, 100%. Part of the reason I got into this space was the guru vibe of I'm in front of a rented Lamborghini creating a video, or I'm just rented out a, or just went to look at a private jet and took some pictures around it.
00:22:25
Sam Primm
and And those types of vibes of, Hey, look how flashy I am now give me your money.
00:22:29
Carl Lubbe
Hmm.
00:22:30
Sam Primm
And here's the, like to use your words, a 12 step course. So we, my whole brand is built around being the opposite of that. It's I've never done the guru guide, but that makes sense.
00:22:40
Sam Primm
It's more of just, I'm just a um a normal dude actually wants to help you. Then I realized the more that I help you, the more you will win and the more money I can eventually make as opposed to just trying to sell right off the the bat.
00:22:53
Sam Primm
i I had a conversation a couple of years ago with a with a billionaire. um i I should probably know his name. He started Priceline.com, but that that gentleman. And he just said that,
00:23:02
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:23:04
Sam Primm
Money is attracted to people that provide solutions and genuinely want to help people. Of course, there's evil billionaires that billionaires out there that made their money by stabbing other people in the back and getting ahead.
00:23:14
Sam Primm
But in general, a large majority of wealthy people got there by being a good person and providing a solution. And he said most of the billionaires he knows are not special because they're billionaires.
00:23:26
Sam Primm
The billionaires because they're special. So I think that that has always led true to me that I just really want to help people. And then knowing that I'm not being a selfless you know saint here, I will end up making more money down the line as opposed to trying to start with the money.
00:23:38
Carl Lubbe
And
00:23:40
Sam Primm
So to kind of roundabout question, you know answer your question, yes, 100%. I do not want to be a guru. I hate to be kind of put in that space, especially recently with just how many people there are in the space because it's very easy to make an Instagram or a TikTok and talk about the one good deal you did and try to get people to pay you to replicate a system that's probably not even replicatable.
00:24:03
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, this is also one of the things that I've loved about being around Yule Brand and the company is you guys are pretty honest about spaces where it falls apart and it fails.
Vulnerability in Leadership
00:24:11
Carl Lubbe
And I think, again, this is the difference between a guide and a guru. When I think of a guru, I almost think of kind of like Eastern mysticism, where this is the guy who's gone up on a mountain and he sat for, you know, 100 days and he's transcended. and you're like, I got a wife and kids, man, I got to go to work. I don't know that I can go up on the mountain and transcend. He's like, well, then you'll never be good enough. That's the guru, right? There's big distance.
00:24:35
Carl Lubbe
Whereas the guide is going, hey, we're going to go on this walk together. I've walked this path a hundred times. I know over there the ground's a little bit soft, so hang to the right. And eventually what the guide is going to do is go like maybe 50 feet in front of me and be like, hey, you can just see me. We're together, but i'm I'm leading you in the direction that you want to go. Hey, you need me to drop back. I'll be with you in the mess. You fell down. Let me you know kind of splint your ankle and pick you back. So there's this sense of community and continuity.
00:25:01
Carl Lubbe
And the other thing is, I think guides are very vulnerable about like, oh, I know this because I fell off that part of the path before. So that's why I know you need to like stick to the right because that that part is the the footing there is unsure.
00:25:14
Carl Lubbe
Is there a place maybe in the last two or three years where you find yourself sharing with your community, with the people that you're guiding, that's of, hey, let me be really vulnerable. This is where it didn't work. And this is where we, you know, pivoted. And what did that do for your audience or your team or the people right next to you who you're like, hey, this will affect me personally, because I, I depend on this revenue as well. And so how how do you navigate being vulnerable and changing and asking new questions when things don't work?
00:25:45
Sam Primm
Yeah, no great question. I think the biggest thing that I do is just try to be vulnerable. I like the question I ask it every once a while to someone is being vulnerable, a strength or a weakness. And you get your macho men that say it's a weakness.
00:25:57
Sam Primm
And and I think most people understand that it's a strength if you if you do things the right way. And we definitely try to be that way. the The number one feedback I get from people that end up being a part of the community or whatever, it's not, you're the most handsome guy online, or it's not, you're the most eloquent, because I definitely mumble and slur and talk too quickly.
00:26:10
Carl Lubbe
Are
00:26:15
Sam Primm
It's just, you're you're the the most authentic one is usually what we get.
00:26:18
Carl Lubbe
you sure it's not the shoe game?
00:26:18
Sam Primm
or right i but
00:26:19
Carl Lubbe
I think the shoe game is pretty good.
00:26:20
Sam Primm
It might be there might be the shoe game. We don't always show the shoe game. We got Jordan. LeBron's better than Jordan, but Jordan's shoes are better. We'll leave that one alone. But anyways, um the Jordan shoes, maybe it's that. But I i mean, and we can even talk about it here.
00:26:30
Carl Lubbe
There it
00:26:32
Sam Primm
Yeah, I like to just tell people how it really is because we really I really bought $50 million in real estate using none of my own money. But guess what really happened as well? the the last few years we bought a lot of really bad deals and and we we bought a a little motel in Branson, Missouri that loses $15,000 a month because we over rehabbed and we're not getting the occupancy we thought we were going to get because it's like an Airbnb hotel.
00:26:44
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Okay.
00:26:56
Sam Primm
so we have to go through those things. And I feel like that that's normal in business. You're not going to have a straight upwards trajectory. So now I own 50 million in real estate. But if you talk to me again, if we do another podcast in a year or two, guess what?
00:27:08
Sam Primm
It's probably going to be a lot less than that because we're we're going to be selling quite a bit to ride off to get out of some bad deals and to just stabilize and get to a little bit more stable place. Because when you scale at the level that we did,
00:27:21
Sam Primm
at least how we did it, you make a lot of mistakes along the way. And as you start to have real businesses and a real financial department and a CFO and you dig into the numbers like, wow, this is a really, really bad deal.
00:27:25
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:27:31
Sam Primm
and And these aren't little deals. These are five, six, $7 million apartment complexes and things like that. So we're going to be worked really hard to own 50 million real estate with a decent amount of debt. Now we're in a year, we'll probably own about 20 million real estate.
00:27:44
Sam Primm
but have about 5 million in debt and actually be positively cash flowing net net net at the end of every day and have a little breathing room. So that the scale that we've grown has not come with a lot of mistakes and a lot of unwinding that we need to do.
00:27:56
Sam Primm
And that's, I think, just part of the journey and part of being a guide or a leader is just being vulnerable to people, letting them know that as they are going through the journey so they can relate to because they're going to do the same thing, hopefully with a few less zeros and maybe a few a few less high ankle sprains.
00:28:12
Sam Primm
Maybe we'll get them to do a stub toe. but they're going to still have those issues.
00:28:14
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. Yeah. No, that's so valuable. We talk about in our work with leaders, there's kind of a few options in terms of leadership when there are L's, you know, when something hurts and you're kind of, you know, cut in half real bad, according to John C. Reilly's movie, you know, Walk the Line or whatever it was. um And when we fail as a leaders or we lose something, ah what we have is leaders who will then lead from an open wound.
00:28:44
Carl Lubbe
And you can see this, like they get bitter, they're resentful, they're upset, somebody's done them wrong because nobody's taken the time to like, hey, how do we work on this thing? And the other side of that is leaders who go, nothing wrong has ever happened to me, don't talk to me, like we'll i have a ah wall between you and me and just go do your job.
00:29:04
Carl Lubbe
And I think the third way and the most attractive way, and it sounds like this is what you and and Lucas have done, and and I've seen it as well in person with with both of you guys on the team, is I think great leaders lead from scars.
00:29:16
Carl Lubbe
And it's like, this thing hurt and we've got it sewn up or we're in the middle of sewing it up and you will see the scar and it's not going to go away, but we're going to do that thing together and we're goingnna figure it out together. Like, okay, we were riding our bike, we fell off and we got to we cut ourselves. Now we have to fix that thing. And so this idea, like you said, the Brene Brown kind of the there's strength in the vulnerability. I think on one side, you have the social media world where I find a lot of leaders now will just throw up on social media and be like, everything's terrible. It's all bad. And it's like this is me being vulnerable. I was like, no, that's you looking for pity.
00:29:51
Carl Lubbe
And then on the other side, like you said, there's this macho, you know, kind of alpha male wolf kind of idea, toxic leadership of like, nothing's ever wrong, suck it up buttercup, run on broken ankles. It just is what it is. And I think there's this third way where we go, that really sucked.
00:30:07
Carl Lubbe
And this hurt really bad. And there's a way forward. And both of those things can live in the same place and also go like, this is really what life is. It's kind of that messy middle of those two extremes. And how do we create that third way? And
Adapting to Changes and Communication
00:30:19
Carl Lubbe
so... How have you found your staff and your team have responded, um you know say in the last 12 months of going, okay, cool. Like we're kind of at a Starbucks moment. Maybe we we you know we grew too fast, too too too big, too fast. And now for everybody's protection, we're gonna like adapt and adopt a new philosophy over the next 12 months. How do you find your team are responding to that that way of thinking?
00:30:44
Sam Primm
They've been very responsive to it. And I think that has to go with that chemistry, that culture, and the fact that they're, you know, are our friends and people we've known for a lot of years, they're in it for the long haul. This isn't a stepping stone job for them.
00:30:56
Sam Primm
They know that they can come to work every day and work hard. And maybe we have to shift a role or maybe we have to pivot something, but we're going to do it together. We've had multiple people that we've had to ask to, hey, we need to shift your role.
00:31:05
Carl Lubbe
Thank you.
00:31:09
Sam Primm
You love what you're doing now, but that's not what we need. We need this right now. And it's it's been taken with pretty good open arms and pretty good responsibility on their part. So we we definitely had to do that.
00:31:20
Sam Primm
We've had to pivot. We've had to have those conversations. And for the most part, they go very smoothly. And I don't know, I guess, because I don't have experience with the other side of it, but I would think it probably goes smoother than somebody you just hired six months ago from a deed that you, indeed, that you, you don't even know their, their, their family's name or something along those lines.
00:31:37
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:31:38
Sam Primm
So we, we tend to get that buy in that loyalty when shifts need to be made. And I think that's a a hidden or not so hidden advantage of the the culture and the fact that we brought, we brought our our people with us.
00:31:48
Carl Lubbe
Yeah. And I think, you know, Sam, you're helping us catch a lesson here, whether it's you're running a company and you might be thinking right now, well, I don't have 10 friends that I can go hire. So how do I do that? Or you might not own a company at all. and you're listening to this going, well, how does that help me in my personal life?
00:32:05
Carl Lubbe
I think the secret of what you're talking about is this idea that ambiguity creates anxiety and clarity creates connection. And in your world, you are clarifying consistently, hey, these things that may or may not be out of in our control are shifting. So we'd like to have a conversation say, what would it look like if you shift over here? So there's a lot of clarity around something that to most people would feel unclear or ambiguous, which is the market, things were out of control. And a lot of leaders will go, well, just don't talk about it and we'll figure it out.
00:32:37
Carl Lubbe
And all you're doing is turning up the volume of everybody's anxiety as opposed to, hey, this is what's happening. And this is what we think is a path forward. Are you up for that? Can we change that? Can we adjust that? how you know How do we feel about that? So whether that's in business or personally, when we're going, hey, and I know we were kind of looking at a vacation at the end of the year.
00:32:58
Carl Lubbe
And then as opposed to waiting and waiting and waiting until November and be like, we just don't have money for that. What does it look like to talk about that in March and go like, hey, I think i think there might be something happening over here. I don't know if we have access to as many funds. what What does it look like to adjust that expectation now in March as opposed to waiting for November? And oh, by the way, I'm stressed out for the next six months. You don't know why. And it's creating other fights that are about other things because I'm trying to protect you. I don't want you to know how bad it is or I want to hold this information because I'll just figure it out on my own.
00:33:28
Carl Lubbe
And again, it comes back to this idea that we've heard a lot in our culture of leaders being lone wolves, like, oh, I'll just figure it out. I'm an alpha, which, by the way, is really funny because a lone wolf, a wolf is a pack animal and somebody who's a lone wolf, that's a rabid animal that the rest of the pack doesn't trust.
00:33:46
Carl Lubbe
And so you're like, that's not a healthy thing to be looking for. So how do we find vulnerability and communicate that? I think this is what you're highlighting to us is as quickly as you can communicate things that are adjusting that are out of your control and bring as much clarity as you can that goes, we don't know how this is going to turn out, but we know we need to make some adjustment either in our budget for the vacation at the end of the year in our personal life or in the team dynamics and who's going to do what. Because the thing you're doing that you love actually isn't creating the revenue return on that that we need right now. Could you pivot over here and do this thing instead?
00:34:17
Carl Lubbe
um So last question that we kind of wrap up with on the One Great Question podcast is we're really looking for better questions.
The Power of Great Questions
00:34:25
Carl Lubbe
i don't i'm I'm in the business, you know, in my company curiosity of asking great questions of wonderful leaders like you. But really, I'm an eight-year-old on the search for better questions and going, I don't know all of them. There are millions of questions I will never get to ask or know. And so very selfishly, this podcast is me going, I know really smart, interesting, funny people who have other better questions than I've got. So my last question is always, Sam, what do you think is a question that somebody asked you in your life that maybe changed your life? That you're like, oh, man, this this thing changed the trajectory. And it could have been as a teenager or in your 20s or in the last, you know, I don't know, 12 days. But what's a question that kind of pops you in mind that you're like, this is a great question. And it really did change everything for me.
00:35:08
Sam Primm
Yeah, something that hopefully is in the midst of changing everything for the better. So we read books with our leadership team that leads every Monday, right? it's like a book club kind of that's part of the meeting is talking about a chapter of a book.
00:35:16
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:35:19
Sam Primm
We've read Brene Brown book, that which was awesome, having rumbles. and And we definitely everybody feels closer. The more trust we have, we can get at each other a little bit in the meetings in a healthy way and leave, you know, shaking hands. And so we've we've read a lot of those books, but right now we're reading The Hard Thing About Hard Things. It's ah it's a pretty wild book and about um a gentleman, Ben's his name, who started a couple of tech companies in 2001 during the crash and had to go public and a lot of lot of crazy stories.
00:35:46
Sam Primm
But one of those questions that he asked his people that we started to ask, it's it's not like, what can we do better? What are we doing? it's It's what are we not doing that we should be doing? So it sounds simple, but it's a pretty different way to look at things.
00:35:55
Carl Lubbe
Thank you.
00:35:59
Sam Primm
You know, what what are we not doing that we should be doing as opposed to what are we doing that we can do better? So that's something that we've been asking ourselves. And that's something that we had cascaded down through all of the leaderships, leadership meetings and teams with everybody is what are we not doing that we should be doing that content that can make some momentum and take some moves?
00:36:17
Sam Primm
So that's something that recently just popped in mind of a question that that got everybody kind of thinking a little bit.
00:36:24
Carl Lubbe
And that's such a good question. ah When it was asked to you for the first time, was there something that immediately popped to mind or did you sit with it for a while? Is there something that's rumbling around in your head after hearing it?
00:36:34
Sam Primm
Yeah, I think it's something that it helps. That's I've been thinking, contemplating on a little bit is it's I the businesses ah have their ups and down months and the education has been down a little bit as we talked a little bit earlier. And I think it's.
00:36:49
Sam Primm
What am I not doing? Well, i'm not doing things that I know will make a difference. Like we're I'm not, I don't want to have our sales department in-house and have ah ah in-house sales, in-house setters, in-house lead management, just because it's it's nice to outsource that thing.
00:37:04
Sam Primm
But I know that if I do that and spend the time to do that, that we will be better. every Having people in-house, having the control, the oversight, the the you know brand throughput of everything from initial conversation to call to sign up, as we're talking specifically education.
00:37:22
Sam Primm
But it it helped me like, all right, we just have to do this. like kind of the what you don't want to do is probably what you need to do kind of conversation that you have to have with yourself. And sometimes it just takes a different way of it being asked to actually try to go down that path.
00:37:33
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:37:35
Sam Primm
So we are going down that path right now. So it's one of those things where you put off, you put off and it's good enough.
00:37:38
Carl Lubbe
yeah
00:37:41
Sam Primm
And it's like we we need to be better than than good enough. And and it's really a powerful thing to be able to control that. So a little more tactical, but that's kind of where that's led.
00:37:49
Carl Lubbe
Yeah, I love that. Do you mind if I play with the question a little bit? Because I think I could make it a little bit more eight-year-old and a little bit more fun for you and the team and freedom in general. um is We talk a lot about about don't shut on yourself.
00:38:06
Carl Lubbe
Because the idea of like what should we be doing is typically like, oh, i'm I'm doing an immediately negative analysis of I'm falling short, I'm not doing something. And so it's kind of wrapped in shame.
00:38:17
Carl Lubbe
And because I'm an eight year old, I'm like, okay, well, what would be a fun version of that question? Because it's still very helpful. It's a great question. And so ours would be, what would I try if I knew I couldn't fail?
00:38:29
Carl Lubbe
And so it's going, oh, well, would I try an in-house sales team knowing it wouldn't? Well, yeah, of course I would because it would drive numbers. And then I just find a little bit psychologically from an emotional intelligence standpoint, it motivates me, at least me personally. Maybe it doesn't do that for other people because some people need a David Goggins to yell at them. That's not my vibe.
00:38:48
Carl Lubbe
um And some people are like, no, no, but how good could this get? How fun could this get if we imagined it not failing? What could we try? What would we try? And so I love that you guys are looking through that. um And obviously with all things Sam, I'm sitting here with, you know, three followers on social
Conclusion and Engagement with Sam
00:39:05
Carl Lubbe
media. I think two of them are ghost accounts from my mom. So I have no knowledge or ah expertise in that. But I would tell everybody listening that Sam's an incredible follow on all social media platforms. Is there something right now, Sam, if I wanted to engage and come in, I love what you're doing in the world. Sam's a great dude. I would love to learn from him. What's the best way for people to connect with you in this season?
00:39:27
Sam Primm
Yeah, the best way would just probably be on Instagram. I'm still very, I have a decent following there, but I'm still very involved in the DMs.
00:39:32
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:39:33
Sam Primm
It's a great place to connect. I like to talk with people. It's a little bit extra. Not everybody does that, that has a decent size following. But I like to differentiate that way. And it's a great way for me to talk with people, get ideas for content, and really, again, do that thing where I help people.
00:39:48
Sam Primm
So I would, I would suggest just, um you know, follow me on Instagram if for' not. And Just check out my content and you know shoot me a message. you You will actually get my answer there and you can clarify something. You can ask ask something. You can get any further type of education that you need through that. Just start a conversation with me there and we can take it from there.
00:40:07
Carl Lubbe
And for those of us who are dumb and will forget, what's the handle on Yeah.
00:40:11
Sam Primm
ah Sam, faster freedom. So I know it's a little bit silly or you can just type in Sam Prim. Either one, it'll pop up. But yeah, Sam, faster freedom or or Sam Prim should should pop up.
00:40:20
Carl Lubbe
And I will tell everybody, Sam is insanely generous, so much so that it surprised me. And one of the things I love in life is the idea of generosity. And it's interesting. I just was with a buddy the other day, wrote a book called The the the Power of Generosity. And the first time that I met Sam, we were at a real estate thing that my partner had drug me to. And he was in the real estate game. And I was, I'm sure Sam and Lucas were like instantly, this guy doesn't know anything about real estate because was true.
00:40:47
Carl Lubbe
And but afterwards, I was very fascinated by the company and the culture you were building. And we connected via text because you guys were kind of like our, i don't know, surrogate big brothers that they had attached us to at this mastermind, which was really kind and helpful. But then even after that, I had messaged you and going like, there's no way that this guy is going to read this DM. Because again, I'm looking at millions of followers and all that stuff.
00:41:09
Carl Lubbe
um And you did. And it was instant and it was real. And I could tell it was you. And I was like, this is crazy. And so I would encourage anybody listening, Sam's the real deal. And he's probably too generous at this time. I'm sure if I spoke with his wife and kids and teammates, i'd be like, yeah, we'd we'd like him to stop helping everybody so much all the time. But um I would highly recommend you connect with Sam because the generosity is real and the output is real. And this conversation has been super helpful to me, man.
00:41:36
Sam Primm
Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate It's always good to catch up with you and then, you know, and get the little twinge of the accent.
00:41:39
Carl Lubbe
Yeah.
00:41:42
Sam Primm
I always like to hear the accent come out on the R's.
00:41:45
Carl Lubbe
Well, Sam Prim, thanks so much for the time, and we'll catch you soon, man. All right, cheers.
00:41:49
Sam Primm
I appreciate it.