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Selling Embarrassing Services – a conversation with Dr Matee Rajput
12 Plays3 days ago
Hair transplant specialist Dr Matee Rajput explains how he built a successful hair transplant business by normalising a medical treatment that many people did not want to admit they had had.
Dr Matee Rajput is a specialist in hair transplant and the creator of the MinSim FUE™ technique, and founder of a chain of hair transplant clinics.
He was training to be a neuro surgeon when a random request to help another doctor perform a hair transplant led to a fascination with the impact hair restoration had on patients.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds Dr Matee explains to host Michael Millward how that fascination led to a change of specialism and then frustration with how the hair transplant industry operated. He resolved to change the way hair transplants were performed in the UK and how patients experienced the process.
Dr Matee describes how he
- Converted his passion into a consistent process that could be replicated by others.
- Designed a patient experience that focused on why the person wanted the treatment
- Used lessons from retail to ensure customer satisfaction
- Changed perceptions of hair loss with younger people to normalise treatments options
- Devised payment options to give more people access to treatments
More information about Dr Matee and Michael Millward is available at abeceder.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Independent Minds'
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abbasida and people who think outside the box about how work works with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:21
Speaker
I am your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. to Today I am talking to Dr. Matti
Challenges in Anonymous Markets
00:00:29
Speaker
Rajput. about how to build a business in a marketplace where people don't really want to talk about being your customer.
00:00:36
Speaker
As with every episode of the Independent Minds, we will not be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Dr. Bhakti Rajput's Global Clinics
00:00:43
Speaker
to- Today's Independent Mind is Dr. Bhakti Rajput.
00:00:48
Speaker
Bhakti Bhakti is a follicular unit extraction surgeon, which I will ask him to explain. He's based in the northwest of England, but has clinics across the UK and overseas.
Ultimate Travel Club Benefits
00:00:59
Speaker
When I travel across the Pennines as a Yorkshireman, I always make my return travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club because as a member of the Ultimate Travel Club, I have access to trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:01:14
Speaker
I have put a link in the description which will give you a discount on membership of the Ultimate Travel Club so that you can also travel at trade prices. Now that I've paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of the Independent Minds.
Hair Transplant Surgery Overview
00:01:29
Speaker
and say hello to Dr. Matti Rajput. Dr. Matti, hello. Yeah, hi Michael. It's pleasure to have you here with me today. Please could you start off by explaining a little bit about the work that you do? I'm a hair transplant surgeon, so this is essentially restoring anyone's hair loss or working ways to restore your hair loss and confidence with your hair. Primarily my work consists of carrying out surgeries, which is f FUE, which stands for Follicular Unit Extraction. That's essentially taking single strands of hair from an area where which is highly dense at the back of the head and placing it in the areas where there's not so much density, primarily at the front where age-related hair loss or whatever the cause of the hair loss is, that's where we place them in order to even out the density. So to create a natural look.
00:02:17
Speaker
And we've got more information about that process on an episode of Fit for My Age, of the health and well-being podcast from Abbasidus. So that whole process is described in quite a lot of detail.
00:02:27
Speaker
on that episode, which we'll put a link in in the description below.
Family Legacy in Medicine
00:02:31
Speaker
You come from a family of doctors, don't you? Yeah, I mean, ah prior to myself, there was there weren't any doctors in the family. My father was a chaplain. As I mentioned in previous podcasts, he once was treated by a doctor on his way to UK, and that was a libel moment for him. And then his always wish was that one of his children became doctors. for the good, because the the goodness he received from another individual. he kind of told me that story multiple times as I was growing up and that story stuck with me and I was the first doctor and thereafter my younger two brothers also became doctors as well. What sort of doctors are your brothers? Similar kind actually, my younger brother who's also a GP but he's also a hair transplant surgeon and my other brother he's actually, he's a holistic doctor so he does integrated medicine.
00:03:21
Speaker
where he looks at traditional and Eastern medicine approaches to preventative, you know, preventing disease rather than treating disease. So he he looks at all traditional methods as well as looking at modern day methods and incorporates both into his management. Prevention rather than
From Neurosurgery to Hair Restoration
00:03:37
Speaker
cure. Yeah. You've explained that the reason or the inspiration for becoming a doctor but Why did you decide to make this your area of specialty? I came across it by accident, actually. I was in London. I was i a neurosurgical trainee at the time, learning how to be a neurosurgeon.
00:03:55
Speaker
And then someone contacted me, essentially through my brother, that they needed a doctor in Harley Street to help out with some you know some part of hair restoration surgery. The minute I got that phone call I was just so curious and I just went out to Holly Street to see what was why why did they needed a doctor and I didn't even know if hair transplant surgery was a thing and you're looking about 15 years ago you had heard of like famous celebrities if i'm wearing hair systems but we didn't know that yeah there was such a thing as you know hair restoration treatment.
00:04:29
Speaker
When I met there, I met the the surgeon carrying out the surgery. he was He asked me to help him out with some aspect of the surgery. I just became, from curiosity, I just became fascinated. As I was training to be a neurosurgeon, I was spending more and more time observing with the kind surgeon who who said you can actually, I'll teach you how to how this process is done and maybe one day you may want to do this. The more I looked at ah hair surgery, the more different types of patients and the background of the patients that I met and the kind of psychological and you know mental impact it was having on there on their life, the more I became fascinated and the more I wanted
Establishing the British Hair Clinic
00:05:08
Speaker
to help. I was truly amazed by the fact that after 12 months you literally transform people's lives. from essentially just, you know, someone who's not, sos who's an introvert, who was who was shy, embarrassed, appearing in public places or in public situations that they explained to me. And then all of a sudden, after 12 months, you see a totally different person, confident person, who kind of restored their, almost their life back to what it was before they started losing their hair.
00:05:35
Speaker
So that kind of thing fascinated me and then it just started from there. After about six to eight months after learning a procedure, I decided to take it further. So it started with curiosity and then an idea came saying that actually i could help more people doing this and it, as well as I was still working as a doctor in the and NHS. And then I started hiring clinics to carry out my hair restoration treatment on maybe one or two patients a month.
00:06:03
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, within a couple of years, it just outgrew and outpaced itself to the point where I was having about 10 to 15 patients a week. and So I had to then backtrack, you know, in terms of my NHS. And I decided to I wanted to do this full time. set my own clinic in 2014, which was known as the British Hair Clinic. And this was based in Essex. And also...
00:06:27
Speaker
It provided satellite services all across ah you know major clinics in central London. By 2014, had clinics asking me to perform surgeries on their behalf because of the good outcomes that we were starting to
Challenges in Hair Restoration Results
00:06:42
Speaker
get. Around about 2014, sat down and I thought, what was the problems with hair industry? How can I make it better for myself and also for the industry itself?
00:06:53
Speaker
ah Because what was happening was patients were paying variable prices. ah for hair treatment. Some clinics were only charging £3,000 per hair restoration treatment. Another clinic was charging £25,000. I was treating some patients spent on their hair before coming to see me And they were all getting variable results. Some people were getting really good results, some people were getting really poor results. And in fact, most most people were getting poor results by 2014.
00:07:22
Speaker
So I then sat down and went back to the drawing board and thought, hang on, how can I make this treatment consistent? for every single patient, even though it's a medical
Importance of Post-Op Care
00:07:32
Speaker
procedure. And as you know, there's there's lots of variabilities in in a medical procedure. For example, a patient can have post-op infection, a patient can have poor compliance to treatment, or the surgery can be done poorly by the doctor and his team. so Or there's another underlying medical issue that's causing the poor outcome, for example, underlying chronic disease. Because so large part of the process that you implement is outside of the the actual surgery. There's the surgery of the movement of the hair follicles. Yeah.
00:08:02
Speaker
But the large part of the the process is is down to the actual patient and how they treat the transplanted hair to make sure that It it has the biggest chance of actually taking in the new area. I've got a full detailed postdoc plan. And I tell them, if you look after hear your hair for two weeks, you will essentially have hair for life.
00:08:20
Speaker
So two weeks is a critical period in which the hair ah in the skin binds itself and recruits new blood supply and starts, you know, formulating. It it essentially kind of becomes like a living plant. ah has its own supply and it starts growing and it gets all the vital nutrients it requires from the skin even though the hair fall off but the root system and everything is still in there and then the new hair start coming through ah just like you see in a plant a new fruit it starts bearing new fruit in the second or third year it doesn't do it straight away yeah you've got me thinking about my lawn outside when we lay a new lawn yeah roll out the turf it is exactly like you say yeah The turf on top of the soil has to has to bind together. And one of the things you have to do is make sure that you water it and don't walk on it and make sure that it it gets that chance. And it's very often, I suppose, there will be people that will spend more time looking after their lawn than they would looking after their hair, even though they've spent a lot of money on their hair. But suppose for a lot of men, especially, it's you wash it every so often when you're in the shower type of thing, but you've got a proper post-operative
00:09:28
Speaker
treatment plan in order to make sure that the chances of it all working aren't the biggest chances that you've got. It's down to the patient to implement the plan. Yes, it's so funny you say that, Michael, because I'm one of those people who did look after his lawn and and and every year i get a gardener to like repair my lawn because I had a brand new lawn, put putting it in my garden and I didn't look after it. I didn't water it as much as I should have done. And now it constantly has patches all the time and there's nothing I can do. I've tried everything.
00:09:56
Speaker
yeah The analogy, you just hit it on the head. It's a really good
Enhancing Success Rates and Customer Satisfaction
00:10:00
Speaker
analogy. So what I did was, ah with the in 2014, I focused on the patient journey. So unlike a traditional way of doing surgery is you go to the surgeon, the surgeon gave you a plan and you listen to the surgeon and that's it. And you then wait for the results or the outcomes. Some would be good, some wouldn't be good. So we decided that the patient has to be the focal point. Whatever we can do to make that patient's journey and mitigate anything, any variables as much as we can, we should do. So um that's why the whole concept of post-op, our treatment plan was a new thing in the way we did it.
00:10:36
Speaker
two weeks, you must do this, you must do this, you must do this. Traditionally, you got a hair transplant, you never saw the surgeon again after a year. We also then introduced this novelty treatment now, pellet-rich plasma treatment, which is essentially taking your own blood, spinning it in a machine and taking the good stuff out of your blood, which is pellet-rich plasma, and injecting it into the hair in in order to give hair some growth food. So that was part of our treatment plan for 12 months within the 12 months and then what that then that did was ensured that higher percentage of patients then get really good results.
00:11:08
Speaker
By 2018 we looked at every single aspect of the actual process from the patient so the patient was one aspect the surgery it was one aspect we had to make sure that every single surgery was done to a minimum competence standard and also you had to have the surgeon and his team at a minimum standard and this is the reason why so many clinics actually approached us to carry out treatments for them was because of that reason they knew that they could rely on doctors and team of doctors that could get standard outcomes because an aesthetic industry such as hair restoration surgery where your outcome is very visible
00:11:47
Speaker
ah you get a really high number of complaints traditionally so we looked at that and we had this the patient's patient is not to blame approach if the patient's not happy we would make sure that the patient would be happy so that's the approach we took and I got this idea from one of the times I was shopping Oxford Oxford Circus can I mention the name of the shop where I was shopping it's been the inspiration so that seems to make sense yeah Yeah, It was Zara. It was Zara, the shop. And I went in there and I saw someone stealing something.
00:12:17
Speaker
and the person just walked out of the store and I reported it to the ah es security guard. He didn't do anything. He said, are you safe? i said, yes, I am. He said, don't worry about it. I then then went to the manager as I was paying for my item and I said...
00:12:30
Speaker
you do realise your security guard just lets someone walk off with something. And I just saw them. And the manager has said, don't worry about it. And I was like, what do you mean? And he said, Zara takes in consideration 10% wastage of his turnover.
00:12:44
Speaker
So meaning that 10% of his pricing is dedicated to this loss, wastage, theft. You have to allocate a certain amount of budget from your business to that. wow and And I had that light bulb moment moment where I decided actually...
00:13:00
Speaker
you know what, I'm going to do the same, I may get one in 20 patients, or maybe get one, two or three in 100 that are not going to be happy with their outcome in the in the hair industry, cosmetic industry. So therefore, we'll have the same approach.
00:13:14
Speaker
So sometimes you do get these patients, or it's very common in the aesthetic industry, whatever you do, the patients aren't going to be happy. The image that they wanted or the image that they perceived in their mind. No, no, it's it's not just image. They they invest money to take get money back. So as soon as they've had their treatment, they will start complaining from day one. It's quite common in the cosmetic industry. a lot of people have that problem in the dentist or, you know, other kind of industry. And and they go to these no-win-no-fee solicitors.
00:13:42
Speaker
And it's constant. There's a proportion of patients and they go around different clinics. For example, they'll go to one clinic for teeth treatment, one for their teeth, for hair, for face, you know, facelift and things like that. And they're perpetual patients and they... It's almost like an industry. It's almost like ah a business for them. So you do get some of those patients. it's Just like when you go to a restaurant,
00:14:07
Speaker
And there'll be some people who will say the food's not that good, even though they've eaten fully, ah in order to get some kind of discount or money back. Or or they'll throw a hair in there or they'll place a hair in the in the plate just to get something for free or not having to pay for things. You do get that quite widely in the industry. You always get that.
00:14:25
Speaker
So hair industry, you get that a lot. Even though I can say to a patient, your hair absolutely look looks amazing and I'll post it online. You'll have a patient say, no, I'm not happy. Then you have to find ways to do that. So that's one of the inspirations I got from Zara. And that was the last thing that was missing in my you know kind of business plan. So that we achieved by 2018. So the important aspect of a business like mine, if you if you're looking to set up an aesthetic clinic or ah or a high-end cosmetic or a hair restoration or medical, higher private medical clinic is that you have to have a consistent team.
00:15:02
Speaker
You have to be passionate and you have to account for the fact that you may do your best work, but the patient, you're going to get indifference level of patients. Whatever you do might not be happy. And that's not your, that's not a fault on your part. You can't let that get you down. ah You just just have to accept it as part of the industry. so a lot of the top clinics think like that.
00:15:23
Speaker
that's what we focus on and it's the reason why we've had a lot of success because once the patient walks through the door whatever happens we're going to make sure they're happy and that's why patient is our focal point and we focus on the patient even though that patient might be disingenuous in their approach to the treatment thinking that they get they're going to get the treatment and they want their money back or they want to own their treatment and they're going to complain so we account for that in the business plan and you're always going to get that in life the way in which you've set up your business, you were first of all, you were fascinated by what was happening. yeah You went from curiosity to fascination. And it almost became an obsession. i think there are lots of entrepreneurs who would describe their business as as their obsession.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, because people ask me now, you've done 10,000 procedures. why It's the same kind of procedure. What keeps you going? And in fact, I recently carried out a procedure on a chef who works on luxury yachts for Afro people, billionaires. And it was to he asked me this question, what keeps you going? And I said, um just like a chef, every single dish you create, you're fascinated by it and you want... You want to know that the end result of that is satisfaction, both from yourself, that you've made an amazing dish, and also the fact that your customer is happy. And you've got really, just like me, you've got really nickety-pickety customers who are very specific in how they want their dish. And that's why you work on a luxury yacht.
00:16:49
Speaker
But at the same time, the detail orientation that you need in order to do your work, yeah to make sure that each follicle is entered in the in the right way, so that you end it with a very natural yeah looking head of hair is requires patience and dedication and detail orientation that I suspect most people don't have. So part of your success is also recruiting the right people who share that yeah detail orientation.
00:17:15
Speaker
Yeah, so the team, of my team, my nursing team, they've been working with me since like 10 to 15 years. They all know the standards. So everyone is working in the same tune as yourself. So you have to create that system. And that's the biggest problem with the aesthetic industry is there's no consistency of staff. And there's no consistency because a lot of people work on contractual basis or self-employed basis rather than actually employed employed by companies because, yeah, because the naked nature of the work is seasonal. And also there's not that many of us, and ah essentially doctors, and also there's not that many of the nursing staff, but the demand is higher.
00:17:56
Speaker
Why is the work that you do seasonal? The reason being is, for example, pre-COVID, it was seasonal. During COVID, there was no season. Everyone was getting hair transplant ah throughout the year. And for the first time in 2025, we've gone back to the 2019 seasonality.
00:18:11
Speaker
back to the twenty nineteen seasonality in which summer period is quiet because I think people tend to go out holidays or other people notice them more. For example, now we're still in October. I'm already booked till end of Jan, fully booked, hardly any spaces for me to carry out any further surgeries because you've got the two weeks, almost two weeks off at Christmas.
00:18:33
Speaker
It's the perfect time for the guy who works in the city centre. It's the perfect time for a civil servant. It's the perfect time for someone who who's like a teacher. It's the perfect time for someone who works in the construction industry. All of these people are going to have lots of time and it's downtime. Because of the two-week period, which is the healing period, it's the perfect time. So when they go back out again, it's less noticeable. Oh, wow.
00:18:56
Speaker
And also and heat and sweat makes you a little bit more uncomfortable when you've got tiny little wounds in your in your skin or your scalp, whereas the cold environment makes it heal quicker and there's the less risk of infection. I don't think that's the reason why people get it it. People get it because of convenience in terms of their jobs and lifestyle. So it sounds like Naren that people are much more comfortable with the idea of having an aesthetic treatment and a hair transplant.
00:19:24
Speaker
is one of those aesthetic treatments that people are more comfortable with. But back in 2014, when you started out, suspect the the situation wasn't quite the same. Yeah, and one of the things um i am that really helped myself and the industry is that the social media.
00:19:41
Speaker
Because of social media, you had lots of these reality TV shows coming at the same time. So, for example, Love Island, you know, Love at First Sight, Big Brother, The Only Way is Essek, all of these different types of a reality TV. Yes, that's why your first clinic was set up in Essex. Yeah. So, and yeah, and my first patient was from Tawi. Right. And the reason is that these reality TV patients were just like a any guy like yourself. or myself, it could be you could just meet them in a supermarket or you could meet them at at day-to-day jobs or he could be your builder. and That's how these shows selected these people for their shows. They just wanted normal average guys and putting them in an environment.
00:20:27
Speaker
What we then used the opportunity to do that was use some of these individuals or ask for some of these individuals to come and have hair treatment done to normalise hair transplant. Prior to 2017, 2016, hair transplant was known as a very...
00:20:43
Speaker
ah you know, super rich treatment, not for the average person. Yeah, so one of the other things, so my business partner, Lloyd Hume at KSL Clinic, he he was a football manager. I did his treatment and we sat down and we thought, how are going to change the industry? And he said, I want to make it patient orientated and I want to make sure that every person can afford a hair transplant. So we then sat down and thought, hang on, we're not goingnna we're not going to be reeling everyone off conveyor belt like they do in Turkey and start doing cheap surgeries. And we're not going to be ripping... people often start charging a really high amount so we sat down and fixed the price what we thought hang on what would be a reasonable price for a hair transplant surgery and we came up with a figure that we thought actually if a person was to go on a holiday like a five-star holiday they don't go on holiday for one year they just get their treatment done we stuck with that principle to the to this day so and then we also looked at options on how people
00:21:41
Speaker
ah how a person working in, say, a supermarket, Asda, or any other place, or how a person who's a who's a billionaire or a multimillionaire, how they can all afford the treatment and get the same outcomes and have the same confidence and have the same happiness in their own appearance.
00:21:59
Speaker
So we asked that question and then we formulated various payment plans for different people. and so different situations, because we may have different, you know, financial or ah genetic circumstances, but we can't choose where we're born or what luxury or what poverty we're born into. But we all have the same circumstances.
00:22:19
Speaker
hormones We all have the same skin. We all have the same the same muscles. We all have the same brain. So our aim was to not leave you know leave anyone behind but just because they couldn't afford it. So we made sure that the industry needs to ah need to cater for everyone. And I'm glad for a fact, you know, everyone criticizes Turkey. i don't.
00:22:39
Speaker
Because I think Turkish clinics have actually made sure that anyone and everyone can afford a hair transplant. Might not be great. The results might not be as good as we can give them. But at least you don't have to sit there and wonder whether actually this is only a treatment for the super rich. Yeah, you've you've opened up the doors to anyone.
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. We gave an alternative people going to Turkey as well. So what we did was actually you don't have to go to Turkey and spend thirty three, four thousand pounds and just get it cheaper. Actually, we've got treatment payment plans for you to have it here. And the good thing is you're going to have a doctor monitoring you for 12 months. Hair is a growing tissue. So you're going to be affected by hair loss, not just the one trip that you're going to do to Turkey. It's an ongoing thing. So you need someone to keep an eye on it, just as you would you do with your teeth, yeah just as you do what you do with your GP if you have any health problem. We brought those systems in place. And then I think that's one of the reasons why I think our business plan is still going well. And in fact, we're getting bigger and we're expanding. We've recently, as you know, in my previous podcast that we've opened a clinic in Dublin and we are looking to for other locations in the Yes.
00:23:49
Speaker
It seems that what you've done Because I can remember seeing newspaper reports about celebrities, have they had a hair transplant, have they not had a hair transplant. And it almost like we can all have a laugh at them because they've had a hair transplant or we're debating it. And course, the celebrity was never actually going to say whether they had it or not.
00:24:07
Speaker
So the newspaper would say whatever it was that they wanted. But because you've sort of opened it up to everyone, you've made it so we will all know someone who's had an aesthetic treatment, had a hair transplant, had a facelift, had their teeth done. And that sort removes the embarrassment of it and makes it, because it's feasible, it's possible, anyone could do it. And that just makes it just another thing that people might do because my kids have left home now. I've got so many to spend on me. You touched on important point. And the thing for that is now, I think social media has its downs, but one of its ups is that you've got these relatively influenced, what we call influencers, people who built their online platform up. And essentially, clinics ask them if they need any treatment. So they get treatment, they talk about it, they share their experience.
00:25:03
Speaker
You see all these social media or TV stars is whenever you see them, they look impeccable in terms of their makeup, in terms of what they've had done. But what what no one was showing was how did you get to that point? And what social media has done now, especially TikTok, is like how to look good at like a celebrity, how to good look like ah an actor, how to good look like an influencer. And then they share the scenes behind it.
00:25:27
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, social media it also had a negative impact in the s sense that it's unnecessarily made people more conscious about themselves when they didn't even need to, especially the young population. In moderation, I think, for example, I'll give you an example. Traditionally, hairline used to be almost like a V-shape.
00:25:44
Speaker
Traditional doctors used to do V-shape. Along came these Love Island reality TV stars who wanted straighter hairlines. And by demand, we had to change.
00:25:55
Speaker
The industry had to change and give the patient what it what the patient wants. Because of social media, we're seeing lots of these and ah K-pop stars where now people are not only wanting straight to hairlines, they're also almost asking for like box hairlines. So the industry is constantly changing and adapting based on the demand from the population ah and based on what's happening on the media around us. Yeah, beginning to get as fascinated in it like you are. But for the moment, for today, it's been really interesting discussing how you set up a business in medical business. So thank you very much, Dr. Matty. really do appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you, Michael.
00:26:35
Speaker
I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Dr. Matty Rajput. You can find out more information about both of us by using the links in the description.
00:26:49
Speaker
An important part of health management is knowing the risks early. That is why we recommend the health test provided by York test, especially the annual health test. The annual health test from York test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol and diabetes risks, vitamin levels, organ functions, the list goes on.
00:27:11
Speaker
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00:27:24
Speaker
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00:27:38
Speaker
I'm sure you will be enjoyed listening to this episode of the Independent Minds as much as Dr. Matti and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:27:50
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. You may also want to share the link with your friends, your family and your work colleagues. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abysida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:28:06
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.