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Compassion in Business – a conversation with author Bruno Cignacco
9 Plays5 days ago
Discover how the principles of compassion can be applied in a business environment to create a more productive and profitable business.
Bruno Cignacco is a university lecturer, and a thought leader on human oriented enterprise.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds Bruno describes to host Michael Millward the catalyst for his interest in compassion at work, and the research which resulted in the publication of his book, The Art of Compassionate Business.
Bruno explains how by prioritising relationships over policies businesses can create more effective and productive relationships with employees, suppliers, and customers.
He explores the impact this approach has on micro-management and psychological safety Bruno also emphasizes that these achieving a compassionate workplace also involves employees making changes.
Discover more about Bruno and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk
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Transcript
Introduction to Zencastr and Podcast Series
00:00:05
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Made on Zencastr. Because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast production and distribution process so easy.
00:00:16
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Use the link in the description to visit zencastr.com and take advantage of the built-in discount. Hello and welcome to The Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abbasida and people who think outside the box about how work works.
00:00:35
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with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
Introduction to Bruno Signature and Compassionate Business
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I am your host, Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abusida.
00:00:46
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In this episode of The Independent Minds, I am going to be learning about compassion in business from Bruno Signature, who is the author of The Art of Compassionate to Business, Main Principles for the Human-Orientated Enterprise.
00:01:02
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Bruno is a university professor, widely respected researcher, business consultant and trainer, and a published author of several business books. Bruno is based in London, the capital of the United Kingdom. London is an expensive place to visit, so when I go, I make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, because as a member of the Ultimate Travel Club, I have access to trade prices on flights, hotels, trains,
00:01:29
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holidays, all sorts of travel related purchases. I have put a link in the description which will give you access to a discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club so that you can also travel at trade prices.
Purpose of the Podcast Series
00:01:42
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Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to and probably good enough to share with your friends, family and work colleagues as well.
00:01:59
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As with every episode of the Independent Minds, we will not be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think. Hello, Bruno. Hello, Michael. How are you?
00:02:10
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I'm very well. Thank you very much and hope that you can say the same. Thank you very much. I feel very honored to be here. Thank you for your invite. It's a great pleasure. As an HR professional, I'm very interested in the compassionate side of business and how we build those human-centered
Bruno's Inspiration from Harvard Business Review
00:02:26
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organizations. So I'm also intrigued as to how you became very interested in the topic. What's the what's the history of your interest in compassionate business?
00:02:36
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Thank you very much for the question. The the the history of this this book is quite insightful in a way that started with an article that i read several years ago Harvard Business Review.
00:02:48
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And this article was titled The Human Moment or The Human Moment at Work. And this article was kind of intriguing because this article didn't talk about the traditional business topics such as strategy, tactics, profits, productivity.
00:03:07
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But this article was focused on how to create meaningful connection at work, especially in-person connections. how to connect to others on a mental level and also on a an emotional level and also how to build rapport with others and build relationships that go beyond the workplace. Relationships could be turn into a friendship bonds and similar ones.
Benefits of Compassionate Workplaces
00:03:38
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So and when I saw this topic, I felt very shocked because it's not so common to see this type of article at that moment.
00:03:47
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I started researching on the topic and I found that there is a lot of research studies. There are a lot of research studies that talk about the importance of building, for example, a psychologically safe workplace or some authors would call this a loving workplace, the importance of support and kindness in the workplace and importance ah the importance of building a spirit of camaraderie, support, a care within the workplace and how this affects productivity, innovation in a positive way and how this can bring about positive economic indicators
00:04:26
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I found a very interesting a study that brought me to start writing this book, The Art of Compassionate Business, that was a study that to observed that when you build a supportive, a compassionate workplace where people are allowed to provide their own voice, their own opinion, but also they are also welcome and included in this workplace. And they are also treated with respect and they are recognized on a regular basis.
00:04:56
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This type of workplace that the author called loving workplaces tend to bring about higher employee satisfaction, higher customer satisfaction, but also a lower absenteeism, lower turnover, higher productivity,
00:05:14
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and higher innovation, and this impact positively on the bottom line. this And this brought me to go further, and i found a lot of companies that were also acting in a way that were not only caring for profits, for productivity, what I call quantitative aspect of business, what can be measured, what can be counted, but also these companies were also caring for qualitative aspect of business, what cannot be counted, what cannot be measured precisely, For example, compassion, generosity, gratitude, support, camaraderie.
00:05:50
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And this second set of aspects, the qualitative aspect of business, are very important because I noted that companies that focus on the qualitative aspect of business, this factor that allow to build long-lasting relationships, not only within the workplace, but also with other stakeholders, such as customers, suppliers, and community members, can also bring about higher economic indicators. They have higher profitability, they have higher productivity, they have better brand image, they have better reputation.
Compassion for All Stakeholders
00:06:23
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So this means that when you build strong long lasting relationship within the workplace and between the company and its external stakeholders, this company is more prone to succeed from the economic perspective.
00:06:37
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Instead, paradoxically speaking, when you focus solely on economic factors, what can be measured precisely such as profit market share, you tend to dismiss by default the building of this relationship within the workplace and between the company and external stakeholders.
00:06:55
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In some extreme cases, I saw companies that tried to achieve These economic indicators, these key performance indicators such as profit, market share and so on, by all means, for example, deceiving customers, a exploiting employees, polluting the environment, ah looking for win-lose agreement with suppliers.
00:07:16
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And this backfires, these companies, because in practice, nobody would like to cooperate with companies that are only self-centered, that do don't care for other stakeholders.
00:07:27
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So there's the element of of caring for employees, but what you're meaning is that it's not just compassion for employees, it's compassion for everyone and everything that an organization interacts with.
00:07:44
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Yes, this makes a lot of sense because let's let's think about this. It's kind of common sense assertion that I make. But can a company succeed without customers, without employees, without suppliers, without the support of community members? without business partners, very unlikely. So if we need these stakeholders, internal stakeholders, employees and management, but external stakeholders too, customers, suppliers, business partners, community members, wouldn't it be nice to have all these stakeholders on our side?
00:08:17
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You cannot force them to be on your on your side, on the company side, but they are more prone to be on your side when you support them, when you care for them.
Recognizing Employee Needs
00:08:27
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when you a regularly strengthen this relationship with the stakeholders, and when you understand that all the stakeholders have different types of needs.
00:08:38
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They don't have only economic needs. This is a kind of simplistic view. Let's talk about employees, for example. Before we talk about employees specifically. Yeah, compassion and being compassionate is quite a word.
00:08:53
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And i think it's one that people can interpret differently. So when you talk about a compassionate business, how are you using the word compassionate? Could you define the word a little bit?
00:09:05
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Very, very interesting question. Yeah, the the definition definition of compassion is quite straightforward. is When a person is compassionate to toward others, this person understands how others think.
00:09:18
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So this means that there is a a cognitive aspect aspect in compassion, but also they understand how others feel, the emotion that they experience and so on.
00:09:29
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And the third characteristic of compassion is trying to support them, especially when others navigate difficult situations. So these are the three characteristics, understanding how people think, how people feel and try to support them whenever possible.
00:09:47
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appreciate that because I understand the bit about understanding how people feel had thought about it in terms of how people think as well so that's that's a very interesting but you were going to talk about the compassionate an organization being compassionate in relation to employees yes and how can companies become more compassionate with employees Well, first of all, we will talk about how companies are not behaving in a compassionate way with employees. What is the opposite to compassion or any other type of a positive principle like kindness, support, timeliness and so on?
00:10:27
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The opposite to this positive trait is fear. What I observe that in many workplaces, these working environments are infused with fear.
00:10:38
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What are the different type of fear that I observe but as a consultant? I saw a lot of workplaces where employees fearful of being fired, fearful of making mistakes, fearful of proposing an innovative idea, fearful of being outpaced by colleagues. Instead of cooperating with colleagues, they are competing with colleagues.
00:10:59
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Fearful of rocking the the boat, proposing ideas that are non-traditional ideas. When people are fearful, they are more prone to experience stress and they are more prone to lead to burnout. But also they are less prone to cooperate.
00:11:17
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They are less prone to trust each other. Why? Because when people are fearful, they tend to adopt a defensive attitude. They tend to protect from the perceived threats. That could be the manager, could be the colleague,
00:11:31
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and they are less prone to behave in a cooperative way and share resources, what makes this workplace less safe, less psychologically safe.
00:11:42
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So and first all, we have to understand that many policies at work tend to reinforce this fear-based work environment. For example, if the appraisal system make employees feel that they will be punished or will be penalized for their mistakes instead of encouraging these employees to become better staff members, for example, through coaching, through mentoring. so
00:12:14
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through training on the job. Well, if this appraisal method might need to be changed. I see some companies that are using appraisal method where employees are only highlighting the negative aspects that they, for example, mistake errors,
00:12:31
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But they don't offer any way out. They don't offer the possibility to improve in the future. They don't offer tools such as mentoring or coaching that they can lead the way to a better performance in the future. This company also, in some cases, they communicate the feedback from from manager to, for example, subordinate in a very negative way. instead And also focusing on on past mistakes instead of focusing on possible change that the employee can introduce.
00:12:59
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to their performance, allowing the possibility of improvement for this employee. Well, this is an example of workplace that could be behaving and developing in a non-compassionate way. Right. So you're talking about so an approach to management, which is very much like a command and control approach, an approach that doesn't really trust employees and employees don't trust managers.
Effects of Micromanagement
00:13:27
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Yes. How we call this? We call micromanaging. So many companies use micromanaging. And how this is so detrimental? Because you are treating people like naughty children that cannot be trusted. And what do you expect them to do for you?
00:13:41
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Do you expect them to cooperate? No, they will they won't cooperate. They will work by the book. Why? Because you're not trusting them. You're not respecting the most important need that they have. the need for autonomy, the need for decision making in an autonomous way. They don't have to be a guided like a little children in every single step. You can give general guidelines as a manager and then you allow them to apply their expertise, their experience, their capabilities, but you cannot treat them as children because you're not trusting them. Micromanaging is also another example of fear-based tool that is used in many workplaces. So these are a few examples, but also a strict policy that apply regardless of the situation. For example, if you have some, for example, leaves,
00:14:28
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or, um that for example, illness leave that can be taken by employees, but the employee have a special situation that is not contemplated in this type of policies, are you flexible enough to take into account the human side of this relationship, supposing that the employee has a dependent that is very ill and have to take more data that is allowing the policy?
00:14:50
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Will you be flexible? Will you be privileging and prioritizing the relationship? Or will you be prioritizing the policy and apply this policy strictly? If so, well, this is also another example of a workplace where there is no compassion.
00:15:08
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The Reserve is very clear with this. Reserve observe that employees that are treated in a compassionate way tend to feel much better on an emotional and mental level and tend to perceive the workplace as more positive and tend to be more committed to the company that they are working for.
00:15:24
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It's about the way in which you treat people is the way that you get treated back. Exactly. And there is a principle of reciprocity that applies in the workplace. When you treat people in a kind way, they're more prone to respond alike.
00:15:36
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So generosity begets generosity. Kindness kindness. Gratitude begets more gratitude. And this applies not only to employees, but to any other stakeholders. But also there is a a very interesting phenomenon that is emotional contagion.
00:15:52
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When you, for example, you are the manager and you're continually upset or angry and you're experiencing these detrimental emotions, you are more prone to infect your subordinate with this negative emotion because of the phenomenon of emotional contagion. And these people will be besieged by this negative emotion and they're more prone to act in a reactive way.
00:16:16
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Instead, when you have in a good mood, for example, as a manager, positive attitude, treat people friendly, treat people in a supportive way, you are more prone to receive the same type of treatment and people tend to cooperate much more unconditionally.
00:16:31
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Yeah. So you treat people how you want to be treated yourself. Exactly. Instead of going, it was like the scene from the Little Britain television program where the person is asked the question, the person behind the desk,
00:16:46
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with their hands on the computer is asked a question and they tap the question into the computer and then the answer is the computer says no. That's an organization that isn't demonstrating compassion.
00:17:02
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What you're saying is that organizations would be more efficient, more effective, have better relationships with customers, suppliers and their employees if they were more compassionate.
00:17:13
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rather than simply focusing on the the economic measures of the new customers and isac profits and loss. Well, most people in management roles have been brought up with the command and control approach to management or something that is very closely linked to that type of approach.
00:17:36
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And most managers don't get any training in how to be a manager. so it's easier to go back to either the way that you were managed or to what you believe is how managers manage which is the i'm the boss you'll do as i tell you and i'll tell you when you've done something wrong but not necessarily tell you that you've done something correctly if you are one of those managers and listening to this and thinking hey i could try this compassionate approach
00:18:09
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What would be the first sort of action that you would take in those circumstances? Very important. Very important question. The first step is recognizing and being being aware of that that employees have four main types of needs.
Strategies for Meeting Workplace Needs
00:18:25
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They have economic needs. This means they need a good salary. a good economic retribution for their work. This is what most managers focus on. okay They're focusing on the economic aspect, keeping the employee satisfied from the economic perspective. But this is not enough. There is a second type of need that all employees have that is emotional needs. Emotional needs is about being appreciated.
00:18:49
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feeling that they count, feeling that they're valuable for the company, feeling that their job is meaningful. And how you can satisfy these employees needs. For example, when the employees have been working overtime, you can as a manager, you can try to recognize this, for example, with a thank you note or, for example, organizing an event where employees actually recognize publicly. for example, with an award or for example, appearing in the newsletter or providing this employee bonus. These are emotional needs, but employees have also mental needs. Mental needs implies need for novelty, for need for mental stimulation. But I observe that many employees are continually working in tasks that are
00:19:30
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boring, demotivating, in some cases doing repetitive tasks that need to be done, but then appear to be like a chore and they are not meaningful to this employee. Well, can you provide this employee with training in additional enhancing other capabilities? Can you provide them with mentoring, with coaching, with training on the job?
00:19:50
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shadowing, can you provide with job rotation where employees can experience, for example, one week working in the marketing department, the other week working in the administrative department so that they have a much more holistic view of the company. These are mental needs. And the fourth type of need is social needs. Social need implies that this employee need to feel connected to others.
00:20:12
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In many positions, you observe that the employee is working on their own, very little contact with colleagues. while in some cases they feel lonely or ah alone on their own. And this is not good because we are social beings. So the the need for connection is still there. And so can you make this simply employee participate in joint projects or cross departmental project where you have people from different departments where they complement one another?
00:20:37
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Can you organize also as a CEO or any other executive m position in that company what we call social events outside the workplace where employees can connect on a non-business level, for example, having a dinner Friday after work every week so that the employees can connect to anyone in the organizational hierarchy from one to one on as equals on a personal level and they can know each other beyond their roles.
00:21:07
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Research has shown that when you have the social events, employees can go back to work knowing each other much more better on a mental, emotional and social level, but also they are more productive. They find their work more meaningful and they're looking forward to the next social events.
00:21:23
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These social events shouldn't be organized only near Christmas once a year. Should be organized at least once a month and it's possible once a week so that the employees can know each other beyond the role because they are bigger than the roles. Yeah.
00:21:36
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The thing that strikes me there with those four needs of an employee is that with some of the mental needs, with some of the mental needs, you could say that there could be a cost involved in providing training. There could be a cost involved in organizing for someone to take on additional skills. For example, someone else might need to be recruited as well.
00:22:03
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But for the majority, I would call this not a cost. It's an investment. Good point. It's not a cost. It is an investment. But I think also with the other three, sort of like the employee has economic needs.
00:22:18
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So we would pay them a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. That's an investment yeah in your employee. But for the other two, the emotional needs and the social needs, doesn't necessarily need to cost an organization a lot of money in order to actually meet those needs of the employee there lots of different ways and they're so important you can organize something that is social so that people get to know one another away from their particular job it could be a different ways of having lunch for example but it doesn't necessarily need to cost an awful lot of money
00:22:59
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I agree. I agree. I agree. And we have to consider employees not as resources. Employees are more than resources. They are meta resources. They are resources that will help companies generate more resources. So why meta resources? Because employees can help the company generate new business plans, new business models, innovative products, innovative services, new ways to interact with customers, new systems, new policies. So this means that they're the most important resource in any company.
00:23:31
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The most important resource is not technology, is not artificial intelligence, is not funds, is the human being. Because the human being can help any organization generate technology, more information, new ways of interacting with the stakeholder. So we have to care for employees as the valuable resource that they are.
00:23:52
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Yes, you can spend an awful lot of money on technology, but essentially it is only as good as the people who operate it. So when you invest in the technology, you should also invest in the people to operate that technology as well.
00:24:11
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It's a very interesting type of area to think about in terms of being compassionate does not really come with a cost.
Integrating Compassion into Business Plans
00:24:20
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Anything that you have is an investment. But perhaps as employers, we need to be thinking of being a compassionate business and with my HR hat on, a compassionate employer as part of a business plan objective and linking that with marketing, sales, manufacturing, service delivery type of metrics and strategies, as well as just the HR strategies.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yes, yes. But it's important to understand that in business, not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts. So what I'm trying to say here, that there are things that cannot be measured precisely. such a a we can measure profit, we can measure productivity, but can you measure...
00:25:10
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Kindness in the workplace is very difficult to to measure this, but you can recognize very clearly when you visit a company, when the environment is kind, supportive, people are cooperating with one another, as compared with a company the company, they have a fear-based workplace where people are competing, they don't trust each other, they don't share resources. So it cannot be measured precisely, but can be felt and can be felt also by employees. And as we saw, when people are treated in a compassionate way, they tend to treat customers in a more compassionate way and other stakeholders in a compassionate way would create a positive cycle and create also a better reputation, a better brand image,
00:25:50
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attract more talented employees and also attract more high quality investors. So the idea is that it's a win-win for everyone involved, including the company. Yes, everyone who is involved is a winner.
00:26:04
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this sort approach And of course, you've explained this in quite a lot of detail within your book, The Compassionate Business. I explained very well in detail and I explained, for example, there full chapters on different principles related to compassion, such as chapters on generosity and business in business or gratitude in business or the importance of a forgiveness in business or the importance of having a broader business mission, which includes not only economic aspect, but also a positive social impact, a positive environmental impact. And this book is accompanied by hundreds of examples of organizations that are behaving in a compassionate way, but also they're economically successful.
00:26:44
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Yes, a good book it is too. Thank you very much, Bruno. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. It's been very interesting and I do appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Bruno Signaccio, the author of The Art of Compassionate Business, Main Principles, The Human Orientated Enterprise.
00:27:12
Speaker
You can find out more information about both of us by using the links in the description. If you have been listening to the independent minds on your smartphone, you may like to know that 3 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data, so listening on 3 means you can wave goodbye to buffering.
00:27:32
Speaker
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00:27:44
Speaker
I'm sure you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Bruno and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:27:56
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. You'll probably also want to share the link with your friends, family and work colleagues. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:28:13
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.