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S4E04: The Rutgers Certificate in Cannabis Law and Business, with Vanessa Williams and Brendon Robinson
12 Plays2 years ago
Co-Dean Rose Cuison-Villazor sits down with Vanessa Williams, Assistant Dean of New Programs at Rutgers Law School, and Brendon Robinson, President and Co-Founder of the Minority Cannabis Academy, a 501(c)3 non-profit organization that focuses on the professional development and technical training of minorities and disenfranchised communities impacted by the “War on Drugs.”
The Power of Attorney is produced by Rutgers Law School. With two locations minutes from Philadelphia and New York City, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large, nationally known university combined with a personal, small campus experience. Learn more by visiting law.rutgers.edu.
Production Manager: Shanida Carter
Series Producer & Editor: Nate Nakao
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Transcript
Introductions and Podcast Overview
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello, my name is Rose Quizan Villazor. I am the co-dean of Rutgers Law School in Newark, and you are listening to the Power of Attorney podcast.
00:00:20
Speaker
I'm joined today by two amazing, fabulous people. One of them is my colleague, Vanessa Williams, who is Assistant Dean of New Programs at Rutgers Law School. And then the other one is Brandon Robinson, who is the CEO of the Minority Cannabis Academy. We're here today to talk about this new certificate program that we have at Rutgers Law School on cannabis law and business.
Vanessa Williams' Career Journey
00:00:47
Speaker
But before we do that, I just want to give Vanessa an opportunity first to talk to us about you. I want our listeners to learn more about who you are. And so we'll begin as we always do with your origin and origin story. So Vanessa.
00:01:03
Speaker
Why don't you tell us, you don't have to start obviously from day one, from when you were born, but this position that you have, Assistant Dean of New Programs, was a position that we at Rutgers absolutely needed and wanted to have. And we are so fortunate that we have this program at this position now, and even more fortunate that you joined us. Tell us how or why you were interested in coming to Rutgers.
Cannabis Law and Business Program Introduction
00:01:34
Speaker
Sure. Thanks so much, Rose, and thanks for having me and Brendan on the podcast. We're so excited to be here. So I work at Rutgers Law School, and I am not a lawyer, and I do not have a legal background. So sometimes I feel a bit like the odd one out, but I'm happy to be here because the law school is full of so many amazing faculty, legal experts doing such wonderful things.
00:02:02
Speaker
Where I come in is new program development. So prior to this role, I was working at Temple University as part of a unit that did professional education, professional development, both open enrollment and corporate training for a range of companies across Philadelphia and the region.
00:02:21
Speaker
And I loved doing that work. I loved thinking really creatively about what people need what information and why can't they get it and how can I help them get it? And so the opportunity to come to the law school in this brand new position and think about those questions in the legal context was so exciting for me. So the law school does an amazing job of
00:02:50
Speaker
working with JD students, right, preparing future generations of lawyers and legal professionals. So my question was, who else can benefit from the law school's expertise? What other programs can we be running? What other audiences can we be reaching? Who else can we give the advantage of all of this legal expertise that we have on the faculty too?
Social Equity in Cannabis Laws
00:03:15
Speaker
So that's why I'm here. And it also is a joy to me, as I said, not having a legal background. I get to learn so much. I get to talk to so many cool people and learn about so many things I never thought I would be learning about. I mean, my background is in music history. So I never thought I would be
00:03:34
Speaker
getting to grips with New Jersey's legal cannabis industry or learning about all the other projects we have going on but it's such a bonus for me as part of my work. So you opened the door when you said you studied music and your name is Vanessa Williams and so you know I could say from Temple you moved to Rutgers you saved the best for last
00:03:59
Speaker
So many great song lyrics there. There are, but you know, I have to throw it in there. I love your name. Okay, well, let's talk about the certificate program on cannabis law and business. There are many things that excites me about this program. At the outset, we know that not only in New Jersey, but also across the country,
00:04:26
Speaker
There has been a reckoning in the way in which the law enforcement has been enforcing and prosecuting primarily people of color with respect to
00:04:41
Speaker
the use of marijuana, distribution of marijuana. And thankfully states like New Jersey has chosen to legalize recreational use of marijuana. And so that has opened the door for a conversation about what are the ways in which people can learn about the reform,
00:05:01
Speaker
legalization, reform, regulation, and specifically also how can people who have been subject to criminalization and prosecution, you know, what are the ways in which these laws can help from a social equity perspective? How can we in some ways assist with some form of a
Certificate Program Details
00:05:25
Speaker
to help them to uplift. And so one of the things that I really appreciate about the program or rather the law in New Jersey is the social equity provision within the law. So why don't you explain to us a little first start about talking about the certificate program that we have, what it's designed to do, and then where social equity fits in.
00:05:48
Speaker
Absolutely. So when I started in my role at the law school and was tasked with developing new programs, I spent some time looking at New Jersey and thinking what's going on in New Jersey? What are the big industries? What are the kind of hot topics right now that we can help with?
00:06:09
Speaker
And so cannabis rose to the top really quickly, right, because it's relatively new in this state. There's a lot of excitement around it, partly because of the revenues it can bring in, but partly, as you say, because of the Cannabis Regulatory Commission or the CRC's writing in about
00:06:32
Speaker
codifying into the way that they're issuing the licenses, the priority for social equity licenses for diversely owned businesses and so on. So we developed this certificate program to support business owners who are interested in entering the industry or have taken the first steps. Maybe they've applied for and received their conditional license and are going through the next steps of converting that. They need to know so much legal stuff.
00:07:02
Speaker
about New Jersey state specific laws around the industry and how to be compliant with those and also relevant federal laws and how to be compliant with those.
00:07:13
Speaker
And so many folks are figuring this out as they go along. They're paying other experts to support them, which is great. You need experts when you are not one. But we thought, well, what if we offered a training program that provides business owners with this really solid foundation in the legal aspects of running a compliant business in New Jersey's legal cannabis industry?
00:07:37
Speaker
It's not replacing the need for folks to consult a lawyer when they when they need to write but it's at least going to help folks say here are the things i need to know about or here are the things i need to be asking about or here are the things i need to be thinking about whether that is how what kinds of order processes do i need to put in what what are my inventory control processes.
00:07:58
Speaker
If I'm a cultivator, what
Legal Knowledge for Cannabis Business Owners
00:08:00
Speaker
are the New Jersey pesticide laws? If I'm a retailer, how do I make sure my storefront is accessible and compliant with the ADA? How do I read a contract with a potential vendor? How do I think about who else I need on my team? Property is such a huge issue, right? So what are the different zoning requirements? Every municipality is different. Where do I even go to look?
00:08:25
Speaker
for the details on what each municipality requires and who should I be talking to and how do I do that. So it's a six month programme which means we can get into a level of detail that is going to be really important for entrepreneurs in this area.
00:08:41
Speaker
And then the kind of other part of it is the certificate is designed for business owners, right? But it's also useful for people who don't own the business, who work for the business, maybe someone in an entry level position who wants to think about what they need to do to step up to manager, right? They need to be able to follow SOPs and know what a compliance process looks like and knows what they should be looking out for.
Scholarships and Social Equity
00:09:05
Speaker
So it has that benefit as well.
00:09:08
Speaker
From a social equity perspective, we are thinking about this both in terms of curriculum design and what other topics we need to be addressing and who are the experts we need to be bringing in. We don't just want a bunch of
00:09:21
Speaker
law faculty who are isolated from actually working in the field. And we have other department, faculty from other departments on board as well, which I can mention in a moment. But we want the curriculum to be reflective of the industry. We want expertise from folks who are doing the thing on the ground. And we also wanted to be able to support folks who qualify as social, actually, or diversely owned business
00:09:46
Speaker
licensees under the CRC's
Community Partnerships
00:09:48
Speaker
definitions. So from the outset, finding ways to sponsor scholarships to cover pretty much all of the tuition fees for folks meeting those criteria was really important to us, and we're really fortunate to be doing that. And then thinking about community partners as well, like Brendan and his amazing organization.
00:10:09
Speaker
I think there was always the possibility for Rutgers as a huge state institution to come in and say, this is what we're doing and we know what we're doing and kind of steamroll through. And I didn't want us to do that. I wanted us to say, here's the expertise that we have, but there are tons of people who have been doing education work, advocacy work in this area for years.
Brandon Robinson's Cannabis Journey
00:10:31
Speaker
And we want to work with them and we want to learn from them and we want to support and uplift those people as well.
00:10:38
Speaker
Thank you. And so I'm glad that you mentioned Brandon, because now Brandon, I'd like to turn to you. I'd like for you to start with your origin story and then let's, and we'll take it from there. So please share with us, you know, how, who you are and why you're working in this space. Yeah, for sure. Well, first and foremost, thank you so much for being here. Thank both of you. Brendan Robinson, president and co-founder of Minority Cannabis Academy,
00:11:07
Speaker
I am a Jersey bread individual born and raised here. As far as how I kind of got into this space, it really happened by accident rules. I'm someone that had a love-hate relationship with cannabis growing up. My father was actually arrested when I was 13 years old and sentenced to 10 years in prison over cannabis. Literally shifted my life overnight. We went from being
00:11:31
Speaker
A poor family from Chisleras, New Jersey, they didn't know we were poor, right? Once my dad went to jail, I knew we were poor really fast, okay? We were all welfare, government assistance. My mom worked two, three jobs to take care of us. I had to get a job at 14 years old to help out. It was just, it was rough. When I turned 20, my brother and co-founder Stanley Okoro said, listen, man, this cannabis stuff isn't that bad. It's good medical purposes, so on and so forth.
Minority Cannabis Academy and Advocacy
00:11:58
Speaker
So I began exploring it, and that's kind of how I got involved with cannabis. How I got in the industry was even another accident. You know, I worked in banking for the past 15 years. Did branch work as a banker, was a business banker, and ended up being a business market director for Fortune 500 Bank. Did very well, won five Presidents Club Awards. I was pretty much happy with my career, and then COVID happened.
00:12:22
Speaker
And when COVID happened, the bank changed some things. They wanted us to take different routes, and I just wasn't looking to do that. So I went and got the candidates full tilt with Stanley's little nudge. And we started a company called 420 NJ Events. 420 NJ Events does a lot of social advocacy work. So we did expungement clinics.
00:12:40
Speaker
career workshops, medical marijuana sign-up events, all free, all for the community. We covered all causes. Folks got their records expunged for free, got medical cards for free. We had Will McBrockett came from Equinibus, a black-owned consulting firm, come down and teach them how to write resumes, prepare for interviews. It was really cool. I bring that up because that's where MCA kind of got born. We got our first paid gig, if you will, with a company called Leafy Green Agency.
00:13:07
Speaker
And we go to this, we go to this workshop, it's a masterclass, and we watch the entire process on how to get your license here in New Jersey. And Stanley and I look at each other and we go, man, how are black and brown folks going to do this?
Entrepreneurial Education in Cannabis
00:13:19
Speaker
You know, whether it's the business acumen that Vanessa alluded to, whether it's the law and compliance, whether it's the financial resources needed,
00:13:26
Speaker
building a team, we can go on for days, right? It's just, we're looking at each other going, how the heck are we going to do this? And at the same time we're having that conversation, we're also now getting in with all these MSOs, monkey state operators, right? The Terrisons, Columbia Cares of the world. And we're going and visiting these facilities and we're going, where are the black and brown folks at?
00:13:45
Speaker
So it's kind of a two-fold, right? So last summer we launched our first pilot in partnership with Harmony and Duchy. And we put 25 students through our program, all from impact zones, disenfranchised areas impacted by the war on drugs. And they all went through it for free. An eight-week instructor-led program.
00:14:04
Speaker
teaching them about budtending 101, how to sell cannabis commercially, horticultural 101, how to grow cannabis commercially. And we had 92% of them graduate, and we saw our students test scores go up an average of 230%. It was really cool just watching their confidence rise from week one to week eight. You know, Rose, one of the biggest things we've seen in this industry, especially with our demographic, is just the misconception and lack of education.
00:14:28
Speaker
You see people using cannabis, you see people doing different things, you don't really know what that means or what goes into that. So being able to give these folks a real life, eight week, hands on learning experience and showing them the ins and outs of this industry is what can grow has been fantastic. But we learned in doing that process, a lot of these folks don't want to go work for dispensary. They don't want to go work for a cultivator. They want to run their own business. And that's kind of how us and Vanessa kind of got hooked up because we're doing our entrepreneur course next year.
00:14:55
Speaker
And Staley and I are looking at each other going, man, we got to launch this law course, but eight weeks just isn't enough.
00:15:01
Speaker
Right. What are we going to do? Like we're just banging our heads like we can't do it in eight weeks. It's just not it's not comprehensive enough to put our stamp on it and stand by it. And, you know, our good friend Fay Coleman told us about the Rutgers program that was coming out. So I reached out to Kim Mutcherson, who hooked me up with Vanessa. And Vanessa has just been just a joy ever since the first day we met her. You know, it's funny, you know, her name is Vanessa Williams. We joke around with her because she's a superstar. And she's just been so wonderful, so open minded, so willing to help.
00:15:31
Speaker
And it's made the process, you know, really neat. And, you know, I just want to go on record as saying this, like, you know, what we're doing is so historical in the sense of, you know, you take these individuals from these disenfranchised areas, you mentioned the war on drugs and what that was, or it was right. And you give them an opportunity to not only learn, not only go through this program,
00:15:51
Speaker
but to learn from a prestigious university like Rutgers. That's what this is all about, right? That's bringing this thing full circle. That's giving these folks the best possible chance to go be successful and have the right tools and resources to help guide them throughout that process. But it's still hard, but it's a great start. So super excited.
00:16:12
Speaker
Well, we're really, really excited about this too. Rutgers Law School is deeply committed to teaching about the history and current issues affecting people who are on drugs, but also how this law helps people of color and those who want to go into this business. Our goal is to
Industry Barriers and Education Gaps
00:16:36
Speaker
teach.
00:16:36
Speaker
And I'm about the regulations and policies out there so that as you were saying, Brandon, those who are interested in forming their own businesses will know the legal landscape and learn how to apply for very understand tax laws and property laws.
00:16:54
Speaker
And all of these other complicated issues that professors and practitioners who are involved in this program can help people who go to the Minority Cannabis Academy. I'd like to learn a little bit more about some of the specific issues, Brandon, that you've seen.
00:17:16
Speaker
In particular, in some of the barriers, have there been any kind of barriers that you've seen in companies and individuals' ability to obtain a license or to start off their business? Yeah, I mean, listen, we could go down this path all day, right? But I'll touch on the high-level ones. I mean, funding is obviously the elephant in the room, right? When you think about the costs associated with running a successful cannabis company, right?
00:17:44
Speaker
Whether it's plant touching, non-plant touching, ancillary, the fees associated with the lawyers, the fees associated with building your team out, the fees associated with getting your inventory, your building, the wherewithal to know how to contact these municipalities and get in front of these government officials, securing real estate, knowing where to go, knowing the ordinances.
00:18:05
Speaker
You know, there's so many hurdles, and we haven't even gotten into the thicker things yet, right? You know, but it really all comes down, Rose, to education. When we talk to different folks in the community, and we're going through the process of what it takes to get your license, you know, there's parts that folks haven't even gotten to yet that, quite frankly, are going to be pretty scary when they do get to it, because the education's not there. We're not properly laying out a landscape or a pathway.
00:18:30
Speaker
to success. That's what we're trying to do here with MCA, right? Whether we're putting you through the intro level piece with bud tending and horticulture, whether you're an entrepreneur that's going through an entrepreneurial course and you're going through the law program. We have to understand that folks either don't open at all when they get these conditional licenses or they open up and close very shortly. Our goal was to make sure they're here five years from now, 10 years from now. They're sustainable.
00:18:55
Speaker
Otherwise, all this goes for not. The CRC did a really good job of coming out and prioritizing applications for folks who have been disproportionately impacted by the war on drugs.
Business Opportunities Beyond Cultivation
00:19:03
Speaker
But that's a start. It's nowhere near what's needed, right? We don't want folks to hurry up and fail. We want to make sure they're in the position to go through this process, understand what it is. There's so many niches to this industry.
00:19:17
Speaker
folks come into it thinking they have to grow cannabis, sell cannabis. That's not the case. We don't grow cannabis. We don't sell cannabis. We're doing pretty well. So we really want to just push that forward that you can take whatever skill sets you already have and translate it into this industry. But there are tons of roadblocks up, up, up, up. And we need to make sure that we're providing folks with that funding, that consultative services, these resources, access to programs like this. It's just so crucial that we put all those things in place.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah. And I just, this reminds me of a conversation that Ren and I were a part of last week and another one. It's been coming up in lots of conversations, right? Not everyone's business has to be a cultivator, a retailer, a manufacturer. There are so many ancillary business opportunities in this space. So people might come to our certificate program
00:20:07
Speaker
who are thinking about applying for a conditional business license, or go to another of Brendan's, like the entrepreneurship program, and come away thinking, actually, you know what, this isn't for me right now. The investment, the barriers, the lack of property availability, there are so many difficulties.
00:20:28
Speaker
We're not going to tell people you're not going to be successful, but there's a lot. There's so much that goes into running a successful business. But what other skills do you have? Are you someone who is great at marketing? Are you someone who is a great spokesperson for a company? Are you someone who just really is, you know, you have an accounting background and you want to bring that expertise to businesses operating this industry?
00:20:53
Speaker
doesn't have to be all or nothing. There are so many pathways in and so I think the more education programs we can provide that sure support business owners taking this kind of, I was going to say traditional route, I don't know if it is traditional at this point, but the kind of typical
00:21:08
Speaker
that we think of when we think about entrepreneurs in this space in New Jersey, it doesn't have to look like that. So these programs can also support people to think about, well, what are my skill sets? What step might I take this year with the goal of five years down the line being in a different place and running my own retail operation? That might be your long-term future goal, but in the meantime, I can provide these ancillary services and build my brand and build my reputation.
00:21:36
Speaker
And what I really love about what we're doing here is that we're expanding our knowledge about the law beyond the law school, right? I mean, this is we're doing outreach to people who go to MCA and to many others who simply want to learn about the law and regulations and policies so that they might have the possibility of engaging
Program Structure and Teaching Team
00:21:57
Speaker
in business and understanding what the regulatory framework looks like. And so this is a program that's for non-JD individuals who are just basically interested in learning about the law. So Vanessa, tell us a little bit more about how long the program is, who's involved in the teaching of these various complicated regulatory landscape.
00:22:23
Speaker
Absolutely. So it's a six month long program. The program meets once a week. There's a couple weeks off, don't worry. But once a week on a weekday evening via Zoom. And we designed it that way so that folks who are holding down their day job can still join us in the evening. They don't have travel costs.
00:22:44
Speaker
It's designed to hopefully fit into as many people's schedules as possible. But it's live on Zoom, it's instructor-led so that it is really as interactive as possible. No one wants to sit for three hours and listen to a lecture on the law.
00:22:59
Speaker
This is probably not the podcast to say that on. I'm sure there are folks listening who would love to do that. But what we're doing is not that. We are designing interactive active learning sessions, Q&A's with our guest speakers, opportunities to say to the instructor, what do you mean by that? What does that mean for me? What does that look like in this situation? So really interactive online sessions. We also, the first and last sessions in the programme are in person. So the first one is an opportunity to meet
00:23:29
Speaker
your colleagues and instructors who you'll be going through the program with and to actually exist in a space together in real life. And then the last session, we end with capstone presentations. So everyone who comes through the full certificate will be working on a capstone, developing materials for their business, getting feedback from instructors, and then present that during the last full day session. So we have a really lovely blend of convenient online learning with in-person actually
00:23:57
Speaker
building your network and getting to meet people. In terms of faculty, I'm so excited. So our core instruction team, we have folks from Rutgers Law School. So Professor William McNichol, Professor Ryan McGee, who will be joining Rutgers Newark in the spring. We have Professor Thomas Gianfania from the School of Environmental and Biological Sciences. We have Professor Connie Pascal from the School of Communication Information.
00:24:28
Speaker
We have Peter McCallaney, who is Director of Executive Education at the Camden Business School. And then we also have someone who is a practicing cannabis attorney who has built her law firm in this space, Shirali Patel. So they are forming our core instructional team. So you can see already, Rose, it's really interdisciplinary. We are bringing together all of these very perspectives.
00:24:51
Speaker
to say, well, yeah, here's the law pertaining to this topic. What does that mean from the business point of view? What does this mean from kind of communications point of view? What does this mean from the technology point of view? We also have a really exciting range of guest speakers who will be joining us.
00:25:09
Speaker
from across the industry. So I mentioned that we're really keen to give our students opportunities to meet people, to hear from people who are doing this on a day-to-day basis. So we're still working on allocating dates for those guest speakers, so I'm not going to preview too many just in case things move around. But we'll be updating the website with details of exactly who's speaking and so on.
Financial Accessibility and Scholarships
00:25:36
Speaker
Thank you. I'm also really excited to hear about the partnerships that we've been able to enter into with law firms who have committed to providing scholarships for this inaugural certificate program. Can you give us an update on which law firms have agreed to offer scholarships?
00:25:55
Speaker
Absolutely. And I'm so, so excited and so grateful to these law firms for really, you know, stepping up and putting the money forward to support our scholarship recipients. So we have scholarships from Pashmin Stein, from CSG, Kiesa, Shaheenian and Chantamasi.
00:26:16
Speaker
and from Greenbaum, Rose, Smith and Davis. So that's three folks already, three scholarship recipients who will be almost entirely funded for the entire certificate program. Our scholarship application form has already had a ton of applications, which we'll be starting to review later this month. So
00:26:36
Speaker
you know, I'm always on the lookout for more folks who want to get involved with the program and support us. But we're just so grateful to be able to provide that additional opportunity as well. Because as Brennan said, the amount of capital that's required to start up a business in this space is wild. And, you know, in addition to the licensing fees and property fees and getting all your tech in place and
00:27:03
Speaker
Going to education programs like this seems like, you know, oh, that would be great, but I have all of these necessary costs to deal with. But actually, education programs are necessary to build that successful
Building an Educated Cannabis Ecosystem
00:27:15
Speaker
business. So we wanted to make that as accessible for as many people as we could. Brandon, can you tell us about what you hope to accomplish or not necessarily for you only, but in particular for the people who are going to be signing up to for the certificate program?
00:27:33
Speaker
What ultimately would you like to see as an outcome at the end of this program? Yeah, you know, it aligns with our mission and our objectives, Rose, right? Since day one, we've been saying we want to build an ecosystem. And what I mean by that, right, when you think about programs like MCA and you think about programs like what Rutgers is putting forth, these are individuals who are going to go through something together, right? These scholarship awardees are going to go through this six-month program, they're going to go through this capstone.
00:28:00
Speaker
they're gonna go through all these pieces together. So when they get done, they graduate, they move on to the next step of their cannabis journey. They're friends, right? They're peers. When you think about one person maybe working in cultivation, another one working in retail, another one working in ancillary, another one doing marketing, you're talking about a supply chain. And one thing this country's fighting with right now is supply chain mastery, right? When you think about cannabis and you think about the idea of putting these individuals who have been through so much, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles,
00:28:31
Speaker
and giving them this comprehensive education and give them the best chance to go be successful, I want them to come out of that and reach back and help the next group, the next cohort. So that five years from now, you're talking about, Lord knows how many folks are all going through this program, all rooting for each other, all bounded by NCA and Rutgers, and all out here really just pushing themselves forward to create generational wealth for their families.
Education's Role in Social Equity
00:28:54
Speaker
To me, to Stanley, that's what cannabis is here for.
00:28:59
Speaker
to unite us and really change the trajectory of our state, of our country, right? And the education component was something that just wasn't where it should have been maybe 18, 24 months ago. The conversations are picking up and partnerships like this are going to just make it even more commonplace to give folks the adequate learning experience they need to be successful. I imagine and through the work that you do with MCA, you've also looked at other states.
00:29:25
Speaker
to see what lessons we can learn from how with the legalization program that they've had in places like Arizona, Massachusetts. Are there some things that those states have done that we have not been able to do in New Jersey and you want us to do? Or do you think that the New Jersey law addresses exactly the type of reform that our state needed to have?
00:29:49
Speaker
You know, it's a great question, Rose. You know, I was going to call a few weeks ago and the gentleman said, it says something that really hit home. He said, we don't know what social equity is because we've never seen it. Right. And at first I was kind of, huh? But then I was like, you know, he's on to something, right? I mean, like you think about the stigma of cannabis, right? You know, there's some folks who still can't even tell their parents that they indulge in it, right? There's some folks who still hide it from their spouse or their job and so on and so forth.
00:30:19
Speaker
So to tell someone that, hey, I'm going to a six-month program for cannabis, you know, is some folks still trying to fight through things like that. And when you look at other states, some states have gotten some stuff right, but I don't know if anyone's gotten everything right. And I'm going to tell you the biggest thing that sticks out to me, no state, at least until now with what Jersey's looking to do, right, has really made education the forefront of legal cannabis.
Challenges in Achieving Social Equity
00:30:42
Speaker
We've made social equity the forefront. You can come out here right now and give all of us a million dollars. It's not going to fix a thing.
00:30:48
Speaker
And that's not going to happen. Let's be clear. That's not going to happen, right? But that wouldn't fix a thing if he came out and gave us all a million dollars. We need funding, but we also need educational resources, right? You think about something as simple as banking. We did a partnership with Financial Resources, Federal Credit Union, where folks can now get a free bank account. No fees, nothing upfront, until they're actually operational. Something as simple as that.
00:31:12
Speaker
You have folks who have to have their bank accounts open just to apply for their license and don't know where to start, don't know how to do it. You know how many folks won't even make that first step because of something like that. So with New Jersey coming in here and putting the educational parameters in place with partnerships like this happening, it's going to give us a leg up on some of the folks that will come before us. Now with that said, there's things from programs like the Oakland Social Equity Program we could take.
00:31:36
Speaker
that made sense, that work, right? But there's also enhancements that have to be there. It's not about just giving folks, how's it saying go? We don't want to give a man a fish, we want to teach a man how to fish, or a woman how to fish, or whatever. We want to make sure that we're putting folks in a position to be sustainable. And I think that overcoming the stigma, I think that taking the good from these other places and understanding we have a lot of work to do is all core components to us doing that very well.
00:31:59
Speaker
So what happened with the CRC, they prioritized individuals based on their backgrounds, demographics, socioeconomic status, things of that nature. But all that does, Rose, is hurry up their application, right? So if I'm a disabled veteran woman,
00:32:20
Speaker
That's black right like i'm going to go to the top of that list for my application. The problem that we're having is that there's a bunch of folks when there's five people is one additional license. I hate to be cynical but like you know okay now what right so you prioritize us do an application but no one prioritize them getting will see.
00:32:39
Speaker
No one prioritized them getting municipality support. No one prioritized them getting education for free. No one prioritized them getting leadership for free. None of the things that actually translate into running a successful business, let alone a cannabis business, none of that was done.
00:32:55
Speaker
Right. So like we have to figure that out on our own. We have to very, very quickly to make sure we don't miss this opportunity.
Ongoing Support and Education Needs
00:33:02
Speaker
So while prioritize applications, what's fantastic, good start. It's not nearly enough to create an equal, not equal, but a diverse, more diverse and inclusive marketplace here. Yeah. And that's a really, really important point because the goal of social equity is to address the history of the criminalization of people of color.
00:33:23
Speaker
in New Jersey with respect to the use and distribution of marijuana. So then social equity was included. But as you're saying, and other critics have brought this up, while there was a debate surrounding this issue is it can't just be this, it has to be more, right? And so the question is, what are some initiatives and programs?
00:33:46
Speaker
And that's really part of why we were excited to create this educational program at Rutgers and to partner with law firms, to partner with MCA, partner with other organizations so that we can help fill the gap, at least in one small context by providing information. There's an information deficit out there. There's a lot of support that needs to be done for people who want to engage in this business.
00:34:13
Speaker
Our role as an institution is to provide that kind of education that's needed so that people can get the tools that they need in order to then launch their own business or any kind of other programs that they want to engage in.
00:34:28
Speaker
For sure, for sure. You're spot on, Rose. And I think it's great that we talk about social equity so much in Jersey. I just want us to get more serious about social equity here in New Jersey. When you look at what we're doing, look at what Rutgers is doing, that's putting feet to the ground, fire to the flame, getting the job done.
Overcoming Stigma Through Education
00:34:48
Speaker
When we look at some of these MSOs who come to Jersey and the kind of money they're making, it's like, OK, where's the reinvestment, though? When you think about the neighborhoods in which they're operating in,
00:34:57
Speaker
So, okay, where's the reinvestment in that neighborhood? And to your point, you know, I think as we start to see more educational platforms, more educational partnerships, it's not only going to kind of break that stigma down we talked about earlier, but again, it's going to really start to create a more streamlined path to success here in New Jersey. And I hope that other states can adopt it as they move forward because it's needed. Thank you. Vanessa, do you have anything to add to what Brandon just said about the program that we're creating here at Rutgers?
00:35:27
Speaker
I mean, Brendan, I have been silently applauding you off mic so that I don't interfere with the recording. But I mean, I couldn't agree more. And our program, we're doing our best to provide those supports. It's still not enough. I would love to be able to fund scholarships for everyone who's applied, right? So this is the start. And there's so much more that we can do.
00:35:53
Speaker
But I think another part of what the Rutgers Certificate in Cannabis Law and Business is doing, and so many other education programs across New Jersey are doing as well. There's Stockton University, there's Rowan University, there's Hudson County Community College. We're stepping up and saying, this is okay to talk about, right? The stigma attached to the word cannabis is huge. I was so nervous that this was gonna be the first program I proposed to my co-deans, because I was like,
00:36:23
Speaker
Are they going to make judgments about me and where I'm coming from? And is this something the law school is going to want to be associated with? Now, I was so fortunate that my co-deans were like, yes, we absolutely should be doing this program. Go right ahead. But I think really helping to say, look, this is a great industry. It has the potential to really
00:36:50
Speaker
give those financial reparations to folks who were historically targeted by the war on drugs, who have been systemically disadvantaged, who have been systemically targeted. We need to be part of that conversation and show that this is okay. Even if you don't partake in cannabis, you don't have to be scared. There's so much good that has the potential to come from this.
00:37:16
Speaker
I think that's another role that education programs are going to play. I name checked a few other programs already across New Jersey. I'm excited by the range of educational programming that exists in the state.
Rutgers' Commitment to Social Justice
00:37:29
Speaker
I've done a lot of research into what's going on in other states and I think New Jersey, a lot of the institutions here are really committed to
00:37:38
Speaker
showing up and being part of this conversation and I find that to be an exciting kind of framework for how the statement's forward.
00:37:49
Speaker
And we at Rutgers Law School are deeply committed to this because it's part of our core values to provide an educational opportunity that is consistent with social justice, with giving back to the communities in which we are located in Camden and Newark, but also all the other surrounding towns and cities around us.
00:38:15
Speaker
completely and utterly committed to making sure that education provides a path forward, particularly for those who have been discriminated against and marginalized. And so I'm for so many reasons that both Brendan and Vanessa, both of you have articulated that we are just so excited about the launch of this program.
Program Launch and Podcast Closure
00:38:39
Speaker
Vanessa, tell us when the division begins.
00:38:42
Speaker
The first class meets January 28, 2023, and we'll wrap up the first full cohort at the end of July.
00:38:50
Speaker
I said, okay, well, we are at the top of the hour. So thank you, Vanessa Williams, Assistant Dean of New Programs, and Brendan Robinson, President and CEO of MCA. It was a lot of fun talking to both of you. I've learned so much and I am looking forward to working with both of you on this Virginia program. Thanks. Thank you so much.
00:39:15
Speaker
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