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S5E04: Military Law and Life in the Coast Guard, with Rear Admiral William G. Dwyer RLAW'04
21 Plays1 year ago
Rear Admiral William G. Dwyer RLAW'04 joins Dean Bond to discuss the litigation skills of Coast Guard Judge Advocates General (JAG), his career in the military and how law school contributed to his growth.
The Power of Attorney is produced by Rutgers Law School. With two locations minutes from Philadelphia and New York City, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large, nationally known university combined with a personal, small campus experience. Learn more by visiting law.rutgers.edu.
Production Manager: Shanida Carter
Series Producer & Editor: Nate Nakao
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to The Power of Attorney, a podcast from Rutgers Law School. I'm your host and dean of the law school, Joanna Bond.
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm here today with Rear Admiral William Dwyer. Thanks for the opportunity to be here Joanna. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to the Rutgers community.
Dwyer's Early Life and Education
00:00:34
Speaker
Can you tell us a little bit about your origin story, how you got to where you are today? Well, I'm a Jersey kid. I grew up in Bridgewater, New Jersey, fifth of six kids.
00:00:49
Speaker
I went to high school at St. Peter's Prep in Jersey City, so it's used to a long trip from Bridgewater all the way, which back then was a lot farther probably than it was considered today. Graduated from the prep and headed to the U.S. Coast Guard Academy, an opportunity. I come from a military family. My father was a Marine, so I look for an opportunity to serve my country. Went off to ships in Guam and Hawaii and off to Navy dive school.
00:01:14
Speaker
And then I wanted to go to law school. I had a few different paths, but I wanted to go back to New Jersey to go to law school. So I chose the opportunity to go to Rutgers.
00:01:25
Speaker
That's great. Well, your history as a Jersey kid is something I can relate to. I'm also from New Jersey. I grew up in North Jersey. And it wasn't until I started as Dean at Rutgers that I realized there's a big divide between North Jersey and South Jersey. But you mentioned that you wanted to return to law school at Rutgers. Can you tell us a little bit more about why you chose Rutgers specifically?
00:01:52
Speaker
Well, having grown up just up the road from New Brunswick and Bridgewater, I had spent a lot of time there. A lot of friends had gone there and I knew the reputation of the school as a terrific school. I went a kind of a different path and a lot of law students when I decided to go at night, I wanted to keep working. I was a little older, so I had five years experience and chose to take that route. So an opportunity brought me to the area in terms of the jobs I worked
00:02:17
Speaker
for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey during that period of time. So it gave me an opportunity to both advance a career while studying law at the same time.
Law School Experience During 9/11
00:02:28
Speaker
That's fantastic. And I understand your background as part of a military family and why you would have an interest in the military. Where does your interest in the law come from?
00:02:41
Speaker
Well, I think they're very Congress. I mean, in terms of the military, you know, we're about good order and discipline. And, you know, when you join the service, you take an oath to the board and defend the Constitution. So you're very kind of steeped in the law. And anyone who serves in the military kind of should understand that important solemn
00:03:00
Speaker
that they take. So for me, I had always had an interest in political science as well in history and government classes, both from my days in high school through college. So naturally really enjoyed that. And then getting to law school didn't really know what to expect. You read about what that's like, but I think
00:03:18
Speaker
Again, going at night is such a unique experience. And the fact that Rutgers offers that, it's not just a service to the community, but it also just offers, it just broadens the whole community because it brings in a lot of folks who have some, often some job experience. And Rutgers really does it well where I really blended, we blended with day students and got to know them really well. We were one of the first classes in the new street building, which was pretty neat.
00:03:45
Speaker
And you really got to know a lot of those folks well.
00:03:50
Speaker
That's great, that's fantastic. Well, having taught some Knight students in my past, I do know that they bring incredible life experience to the class and it really enriches the class discussion. So I completely agree with you. It's a really unique learning opportunity and it enhances the teaching experience too. All right, so let's do a softball round robin. What was your favorite and least favorite class in law school?
00:04:18
Speaker
Well, I don't know that had a least favorite, maybe one of the first year courses that was maybe a grind. But I think not so much of subjects, but professors, like I think of Frank Askin was a terrific professor that had Gary Francione. I took his philosophy in the law class, which was very interesting. Again, when I was in law school was shortly after it was during 9-11. And then during that period afterwards, so just an entering period of transition and where the country was.
00:04:48
Speaker
and to really see the diversity of thought and opinion. And I think really the respect everyone had for a variety of opinions, which I hope still exists today, I really can say it existed there. Some folks showed up, I wasn't the only one in the military, other folks were as well. And sometimes even evening students would show up in uniform if they invaded too. And I think it was just a great community.
00:05:07
Speaker
for that. And I would also say Hal Braff, he was an adjunct, famous, probably more famous for his son being the Scrubs guy on the Scrubs TV show. But Hal Braff was my negotiations professor. And I remember coming in the first day, just being a little late again, being, it was a, I think it was a four o'clock class. So it was one of those ones that really, you had a lot of crossover between day and evening students.
00:05:33
Speaker
and being late the first day and calling me out in front of 60 students and going up to them afterwards and kind of
00:05:39
Speaker
talk to him about it. And he's like, oh, that was just an act. That was part of my class to really kind of get the class into it because it's all about negotiations. Right. And he was just a really interesting professor. And what I liked even more about it is he gave back to the community. He was a successful lawyer in a successful practice. But he grew up in New Jersey and he had a Rutgers tie and wanted to come back and serve that. And I've taken that myself. I'm an adjunct.
00:06:07
Speaker
law professor at Miami Law School when I was, from the time I was stationed down in South Florida, as well as the opportunity to teach at the School of Public Policy at Texas A&M. So I've taken on that kind of approach to give back where you can and share your knowledge with other folks. So I appreciate what Professor Brafft did way back when.
00:06:27
Speaker
That's fantastic. And I think you're so right about that. Being an adjunct is often a great way to give back to your community. And I think a lot of times people really love the interaction with students. They can relate to having been a student and they enjoy that connection and relationship with the students. So I'm thrilled to hear that you're doing some of that teaching yourself.
00:06:49
Speaker
and that you had a great experience while you were at Rutgers Law School. That's great. I had no idea that we had a connection to the Braff family. But I think you're right that at least his son is well known for the TV role in Scrubs. Okay, great. So favorite place to eat nearby.
00:07:08
Speaker
Definitely McGovern's. Again, being an evening student, we made sure that we set up certain days. Thursday was the night everyone would go to McGovern's. But we also ensured that we were a full functioning part of the law school. We had an evening students association. Some of us participated in student bar as well to ensure that that part of the community really flowed to the evening students. So we made sure we built that.
00:07:34
Speaker
And McGovern's is always great. It was a great atmosphere, I understand. So I haven't been back in years, would love to go back next time I'm in Newark. But it was a great spot to go. And really, it was always fun to unwind after a hard weekend. Again, as you said before, the evening students have a variety of experiences.
Skills Development at Rutgers
00:07:53
Speaker
it's in different jobs and you know we had folks with a myriad of different things they did from being from teachers to real estate to you name it but that would get us all together talking about what we learned that week and what else we were doing so that again that variety of opinions and variety of thought was always fun to come together over a few beers and wings on a Thursday night.
00:08:16
Speaker
That's fantastic. That's a great tradition. And I understand McGovern's is still very much a part of the life of the law school, although I have not yet made it there. So I feel like I don't have, I don't really have credibility until I've had a beer at McGovern's. So that's on my list. Well, good. Okay, great. Favorite place in Newark.
00:08:37
Speaker
I'd probably say Penn Station. So I, as I said before, I commuted from Bridgewater into Jersey City and you had to go through Newark Station to catch the PATH train. And then when I was in law school as well, sometimes catching the New York City subway back when it wasn't the nice light rail that is today, back when it was the old, those 50s subway cars that were still plying their way through the streets of Newark. So, and it's such a beautiful building, right? And that has such,
00:09:04
Speaker
such a great history to t it, you know, knowing ho is and all the wonderful in it. And it's such a, i still today and it's it's for the folks taking pub it's still a necessary an
00:09:24
Speaker
Absolutely. In addition to being very functional, it's also just beautiful. I agree completely. I'm still learning the history around the city of Newark, but it's a city that is incredibly rich in history, and it's nice to slowly discover that.
00:09:40
Speaker
Okay, great. So let me ask you, what was the most important thing you learned at Rutgers Law? And it may be difficult to identify just one thing, but if you had to focus on one thing that really transformed your thinking, what would that be?
00:09:57
Speaker
Well, I would say a few things. It helped me refine time management. Having been in the military and out of service academy really kind of had developed pretty good time management, but then add on top of it a job and trying to take a load of classes. I'm married, so I think we were in our fourth or fifth year, I want to say maybe third year when I started law school, of marriage. And by the time we graduated, we had twins. So just all those things bounced into one just to realize
00:10:25
Speaker
making every minute of the day count and you really had to be able to do that. I'd also add just the ability to further think critically. Lawyers play such an important role in any organization as those that speak truth to power. I can say the same in the military. I've had a variety of different assignments, but in one of my more recent assignments was the general counsel or chief counsel for US Southern Command as the staff judge advocate or senior lawyer.
00:10:52
Speaker
So you're often in the room giving your best military advice to a commander, but you're there to counsel and be a counsel and counselor at the same time. And you're one of the few people in the room that often doesn't have a vested interest besides what you think is right based on law and policy, as opposed to, say, someone before thinking about an operation. The operations officer probably may have a different opinion, perhaps, than I do, or the engineer may have a different opinion, but often the lawyer
00:11:20
Speaker
will help think critically and bring that unique perspective and that's why the role of a lawyer is so critical in any organization and those in whether you're in business or politics or the military being able to utilize your lawyer in the right way is an amazing tool in your arsenal and if you're not using that right you're probably missing you know an important point of view.
Current Military Role and Justice System Changes
00:11:43
Speaker
Great, well said. That's fantastic. Okay, so can you tell us a little bit about what your current role entails in the US Coast Guard as its first chief prosecutor? Okay, so in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2022, Congress changed the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Now, Uniform Code of Military Justice has been around since 1951. It came in the aftermath of World War II to kind of make it
00:12:11
Speaker
in terms of how we apply to military members accused if you're a military membe a unique set of laws und code of military justice. like civil law. But whe and you're, you're, you'
00:12:34
Speaker
hour, seven days a week as an active duty member. So Congress basically, based on how they perceived the response to allegations of sex assault in the military, decided to change the way in which the decisions were made to move forward with prosecuting cases. So previously, since the founding of the UCMJ in 1951, commanding officers
00:12:59
Speaker
as convening authorities of court marshals had the authority to decide based on legal advice whether a case moved forward or not when they were they would be given you know legal legal counsel based on probable cause to decide whether a case would move forward or not. Congress was not satisfied with some of the some of the way either for time or outcome or
00:13:21
Speaker
victims rights and decided that they were going to change the law. And when they did, what they created was a system where there will be special trial counsel and that's folks who will reside outside of the regular military chain of command and will provide prosecution for certain offenses. Now there are a number of offenses. There's 13 and there'll be a 14th year
00:13:48
Speaker
in 2024. But they mainly victim centric crimes. S kidnapping, stalking, but were most important to con the sex assault, uh, any
00:14:06
Speaker
unlawful touching, for ex fall under that as well. S will be decided through my anyway through my office the the Department of Defense of Special Trial Council
00:14:22
Speaker
Department of Defense Services. We work very closely in a joint environment as we look to build our policies and procedures in taking on these milestone changes to the UCMJ. So what is as of December 28th of this year is when this will go into effect and then from that point on any of those victim-centric crimes which I described will be investigated and then prosecuted
00:14:49
Speaker
And the decision to move forward will reside with a military judge advocate or lawyer versus a convening authority. And furthermore, for the Coast Guard, what's different is we'll also prosecute all the non-covered offenses. And by that, I mean other offenses under the Uniform Code of Military Justice that are not covered in these victim-sensure crimes. So think of assault or fraud, for example, or other military crimes. We would prosecute those.
00:15:15
Speaker
That's fascinating. And it sounds like a significant change in terms of the process. So do you anticipate that taking those decisions outside the chain of command will have an impact on how those cases are handled?
00:15:30
Speaker
I think one of the issues is there's a perception, and I don't comment on whether it's true or not, there's a perception of a loss of trust or transparency to some extent. The idea is Congress wanted to put that in the hands of experienced judge advocates because they may have the time, experience, education to make these decisions.
00:15:52
Speaker
And in a lot of ways it will look like and appear like a district attorney's office in some ways where that decision really will reside with a lawyer on evaluating a case and all the elements and the
00:16:07
Speaker
and presented to decide whether a case move forward. Previously, again, it would be a commander who would get advice from a lawyer, but ultimately, they would own that decision. And I
Leadership and New Roles
00:16:21
Speaker
believe, my perception, again, is that the feeling amongst Congress is that a judge advocate may be less persuaded by other things besides the facts and the evidence when they would decide to move forward or not with a case.
00:16:37
Speaker
That's fascinating. I appreciate you explaining those developments in the law. I know that this isn't your first time stepping into a newly created role. You were also the first Coast Guard officer assigned as staff judge advocate for US Southern Command in Doral, Florida. How do you tackle these positions that didn't really exist before you filled them? You're sort of creating a new position as you go. How does that work?
00:17:02
Speaker
Well, unlike the position I'm in today, the position that exists, I was just the first one from my service ever to fill that role, which was unique for us. Again, amongst the military services, the Coast Guard is the smallest by far, 42,000 active duty, and also has a unique role in the military in that we are the only military service that resides outside of the Department of Defense. And that's because of the nature of what the Coast Guard does. It's always a Title 10 military service, Title 10 US Code.
00:17:32
Speaker
But it also is a regulatory agency. It's a maritime law enforcement agency. It's a member of the intelligence community. Where's many hats for a small organization? So sometimes some of these larger, higher profile joint jobs, and by joint I mean once among the many services, are not often provided to us. So I was fortunate enough to interview for that job with
00:17:55
Speaker
a Navy admiral and he took a chance on me and gave me that opportunity and wound up serving there for four years and really greatly enjoyed that opportunity, learned a lot from that. But I think in going into any new job, obviously, the first thing you have to go in is to be humble and realize you have a lot to learn and realize that you will gain the respect of your teammates when you show that level of humility when you walk through the door. And then working, being able to work
00:18:23
Speaker
as a member of a team and lead your folks and take chances where you need to. So again, going in, finding out what the job has to be done, but ensuring that the right answer doesn't always need to come from you. It'll come from the team. And if you build the team correctly, you'll be able to build that trust and that communication amongst your teammates. So not only in that previous job at US Southern Command, but in my current job now,
00:18:52
Speaker
working hard to ensure we have the procedures and policies in place to do our job, but also ensure that we have the trust amongst the team. And again, I can't really overstate the role that humility plays in building that team, right? And especially the senior leader, when they know that you don't always have all the answers, but it provides your team with somewhat comfort as well, because they know they're working together to solve those problems with you.
00:19:22
Speaker
Absolutely great advice. As someone who stepped into a new role very recently and built a leadership team, I completely agree with you and that really resonates, yes, the necessary humility and reliance on really strong team members. Absolutely true. Yeah, you really can't. I think you have to realize that asking questions is a good thing and especially as a
00:19:48
Speaker
as a leader of an organization. And it allows people to demonstrate their knowledge to you. It also helps to make you better at what you do every day as well. And it really goes a long way, again, to build that cohesion to ensure that the team can function properly in not just good times, but when you're hit with adverse times as well.
00:20:13
Speaker
Right, absolutely. And to be comfortable with not knowing the answer to all of the questions, particularly when you step into a new role, I think is really important. As someone with both a legal and a military background, how do you balance the responsibilities of upholding the law while also fulfilling your military duties?
00:20:35
Speaker
But I think that those two things are very much congruent. The fact is, as I said earlier, any, especially an officer in the U.S. military, you take an oath to support and defend the Constitution. So you're well aware of the law.
00:20:50
Speaker
And you're well aware of the chain of command and what role that plays. An interesting balance is as an attorney, though, because having spent a little time when I was stepping back from my own career, I did spend a little time with a New York maritime firm when I first got out of law school before I went back on active duty for a period of time.
00:21:11
Speaker
And what you understand is, as you well know from your experience in law, law firms are often flat organizations, right? In a sense that whether you're managing partner or associate, you should be able to communicate rapidly and quickly across those echelons.
00:21:26
Speaker
quickly. So because that's the only way you're going to be successful. And to bring that to a military construct is somewhat challenging because I find when I talk to my team, I want to know what they think and I want to know where they're going on certain projects. But we also have to be sensitive that there is a chain of command in place at all times. So it is a balance, but I think the two go hand in hand, especially the fact that as in my current role as a military justice practitioner,
00:21:56
Speaker
We're really the sentinels of good order and discipline in our service. The reason why people join the military is because it is something different. They're, you know, subjugate themselves to this different system. And that system is really upheld through the role of military judge advocates because they're the only ones who can have this function of this process. And I say that because
00:22:20
Speaker
In my current role now, when I'm talking about opportunities or resources, the only reason the lawyers existed in the military was really to carry out the function of ensuring good order and discipline to the military justice process. Now, over time, they've grown to a rather large national security apparatus, for example, all very, very important roles.
00:22:43
Speaker
But not required. The only real required role under the law and that Congress has demanded is to be involved in and be there for the military justice practice, both from prosecution as well as that we use them for defense practice as well. Great, great.
00:22:59
Speaker
Well, you may or may not be able to answer this, Bill, but what's your next move? What's your next career move? And what's your ultimate goal? I don't know. I'm just honored and humbled to be able to lead the team that I just stepped into. We'll see where that leads.
00:23:19
Speaker
And again, it's a real special feeling to be able to wear the cloth for a nation every day. And I really mean it in the sense that I've been doing this for 28 years. I've been associated with the military. And if you count my academy time, I guess more than that.
00:23:35
Speaker
And I still love it. I still love the opportunity to be able to put on a uniform and and serve with a team. And I think that's definitely something more rare today than than ever before. And that folks move around different jobs and have job satisfaction is where it is. But I really enjoyed and enjoy what I'm doing. And I'll do it as long as they let me on a personal front. I've just dropped off my my kids in college. I twin girls. And again, they started this journey with when I was just
00:24:03
Speaker
about finishing law school, and I just dropped one off at the Naval Academy, one at the University of Virginia. So I'm excited to see how they do over the next few years as well. Like anything else in life, keeping balance is important. And for me, that balance of family as well as my position and my role, my responsibilities in the Coast Guard are two things I take very seriously. Again, my wife and I are getting to know each other a little more, again, now that we're empty nesters.
00:24:30
Speaker
Right. I'm sure. I'm sure that's true. Well, your approach to leadership is so thoughtful. I really appreciate knowing that you are in the position that you're in. And I hope that wherever the next step is, whatever it leads you to, that you'll stay in touch with Rutgers Law School. We're very proud to count you among our alums. So speaking of Rutgers Law School, what advice would you give to law students who aspire to pursue a career in the military or combine legal knowledge with a military profession?
00:25:01
Speaker
I think that provides great opportunity from a practical perspective. It can be a method to fund undergraduate or law school. So say through the post on 11 GI Bill is a great example.
00:25:14
Speaker
But from another point of view, it provides this amazing leadership laboratory that really only exists in the military in that we take young people and we put them in positions of great responsibility early on and test their ability to do that.
00:25:33
Speaker
and for generations and f they succeed in that. So a great opportunity and whe to be a career as I've done and decide to go back an community or your hometown
00:25:51
Speaker
I believe I think service is important and it comes in many forms. I'm married to a elementary high school teacher. Erin's travel everywhere we've lived. We've lived all over the world in our career from Hawaii to Guam to Alaska to Germany to throughout the U.S. and she's taught in those different places and kind of showed me that again service comes in many forms and
00:26:16
Speaker
I think that's important to remember that you can serve your community in many forms. I'd also state that the opportunity to serve in the military is a privilege, and I think the oxygen or the lifeblood of our democracy really requires those to step up and want to serve. Again, in a variety of roles. I've chosen the military, but it's important that we realize that
00:26:41
Speaker
The military reminds us that it's not all about us. And it's not always about a paycheck, but it's about a purpose. And to have purpose is so important in a fulfilled life.
Military Diving Experiences
00:26:57
Speaker
That's absolutely true. And I love your observation that public service comes in many forms. I think that that is true. And your wife is a great example of that. I think our teachers are certainly providing a public service. And many lawyers will be tapped to be leaders within their communities, whether it's within their local bar association or within their law firms or the legal aid agency that they're working in. I think that Rutgers does a very good job of preparing people for positions of leadership.
00:27:27
Speaker
And we certainly talk explicitly about the value of public service. So what you have said just now really resonates with me and with the Rutgers mission. I also love the concept of a leadership laboratory. That's great. I think that we're providing that in some different ways here on campus as well.
00:27:47
Speaker
So those observations are really astute observations about law and leadership. I want to ask you about something completely unrelated now. And that is, I know you're trained as a military diver. So can you tell us about the hairiest dive situation that you've encountered? Well, I think so. For me, I went to dive school back in 1998. I was trained as a salvage diver. So basically what we would do is
00:28:15
Speaker
we would do inspections of ships at depth, but for the Coast Guard we particularly use them for the rather what some people consider mundane task of if you notice when you've ever run a boat you'll see these buoys floating in the water well they're connected to chain and they're connected to these giant five to ten thousand pound rocks and anyone studied liquids or other engineering you know that as water passes it breaks those down over time so every few years you'll need to change out the
00:28:44
Speaker
the chain, as well as the rock at the bottom. When I say rock, it's a 5,000 to 10,000 pound piece of concrete. You'll be changing that out. So it's probably, I think we were diving
00:29:00
Speaker
In in Midway, I would probably say, and it was a pretty good surge and that usually when you're diving at depth you try to control your depth to some extent, and this is one where there's probably like a 20 to 25 foot swell as you're working underwater and just takes a higher level of concentration.
00:29:19
Speaker
Another interesting one is we did net retrieval. So the Northwest Hawaiian Islands, for those who know geology, the Hawaiian Islands are on a huge tectonic plate that as it moves across it forms more islands. That's why if you look at a map of the world to see the Hawaiian Islands trail off because that over millennia that's how
00:29:35
Speaker
the islands have formed and the island of Hawaii is still growing today. It's accreting as you see the volcano erupt. So we would go to the northwest Hawaiian islands which are uninhabited and we would retrieve net and because what happens is fishermen often, commercial fishermen especially, they would just cut their nets and let them drift. They would get caught in these huge
00:29:57
Speaker
air coral beds and then animals would get stuck in them. So marine mammals, for example, will get stuck in them, think Hawaiian monk seal, which is endangered species. So doing that was an amazing trip just for what we saw, but also what we experienced underwater as well, because you're in these areas that not many people in the world ever get to visit or see. So there's these beautiful, beautiful places and the sea life that's down there from tiger sharks to
00:30:27
Speaker
you name it, that are around you are pretty amazing in terms of what you see and what you experience. Yeah, those are probably the two neater ones I can think of. There was no
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah, did some whole inspections from time to time looking for certain things. But that's that's about it. But I guess I would say, though, on teamwork pieces, just as important there as well, because you work in a team, especially a way the dive team works is, you know, we're all Navy trained. So those are divers go to Navy dive schools. That's what I do. Yeah. Deep sea Navy diver.
00:31:11
Speaker
But we all train together, but you learn how to plan a mission, execute a mission, and de-reform a mission together and ensure that everyone who's going out is able to successfully complete the mission, go home safe, and that they're not impacted, say, medically from their dive. And again, that's part of the whole planning your dive to depth to ensure that folks are safe along the way and they get back to the surface without any further repercussions.
00:31:35
Speaker
Right, that makes sense. That's fantastic. And I wonder, have you seen the movie about the Thai soccer team that needed rescuing by professional divers? Yeah, the cave dive. Yes, yes. Anxiety-inducing movie. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, indeed. So on a couple of times, recreationally, we were able to dive into some ships.
00:32:01
Speaker
We never planned that from a professional diving perspective, but recreationally got to do that. And a part of the world called the Chuk in Micronesia, which is where the the Marianas-Turkey shoot in World War II. It's a famous battle where the U.S. actually sunk part of the Japanese fleet right there.
00:32:18
Speaker
they still had ships with Japanese zeros still intact in the ship. And you could dive into the ship and actually sit in the cockpit of one of these aircraft that were still underwater. And it was, again, just an amazing, you know, space to visit. Also, you know, sacred spaces as well in the sense that you were trying not to disturb anything, but witness it, but a chance to really touch history.
00:32:39
Speaker
That's incredible. What an incredible experience. That's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your service and thank you for speaking with us today. You're a shining example of what our alumni go on to do. So I appreciate you visiting with us and I hope that some prospective students or current students have the opportunity to learn from your insights.
Closing Remarks
00:33:01
Speaker
So thank you again for joining us.
00:33:03
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you for this opportunity. Congratulations on your new role. And again, if any students or prospective students have interest in the military, want to talk about being a judge advocate, always willing to connect them, speak to them, manner them in that process. Thank you again.
00:33:20
Speaker
Well, thank you. All right, take care. The Power of Attorney is a production of Rutgers Law School. With two locations just minutes from New York City and Philadelphia, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large, nationally known university with a personal, small campus experience. Learn more today by visiting us at law.retkers.edu.