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EP91: Michael Butler - The Single Father's Guide To Surviving Your Divorce
94 Plays2 years ago
“Get yourself healthy first, grab the oxygen mask. Get some men in your life. Stop the financial bleeding… It’s going to take a while to recover so think smart, think like a business owner but the main thing is heal yourself first so you don’t repeat the patterns.”
As today’s guest, Michael Butler says, we don’t plan for divorce. So if it happens and you’re not prepared, you can easily make a lot of emotionally charged decisions that make matters much worse. Especially if there are kids involved. Guilt, shame and regret are powerful emotions that will bring the worst out of us unless we have something to hold us accountable. Today we hear about the power of faith and masculine brotherhood to hold a man to his potential; the effect of the modern, feminised environment that can bring the worst out of a man and ill equip a boy to know how to handle relationships; the consequence of victim mentality and how to take ownership; and kids: the divorce is not your fault.
Michael is a pastor and father of two who’s been through a divorce. He didn’t cope well at first and learned from his mistakes. Through his faith, commitment to his kids and through the men in his life, he recovered and wrote his book to help other men maintain their dignity through divorce.
You can find The Single Dad’s Survival Guide For Reconnecting With Kids & Moving On With Life After Divorce on Amazon.
Also in this episode:
https://a.co/d/ahi7LcK
https://sterling-institute.com/mens-weekend
Check out the Sovereign Circle or the Battle Ready program at https://www.sovereignman.ca/. While you’re there, check out the store for Sovereign Man t-shirts, hats, and books.
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Transcript
Introduction to Cyberman Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
We don't plan for divorce. When you stand up there and do your vows, that's your dream. I believe anything can be worked out. But I didn't realize that it would affect me at such a deep level emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and physically. All I can do is ask them to forgive me, to be humble, and then to forgive myself.
00:00:25
Speaker
You're a man living in the modern world in a time when men and manhood are not what they once were. You live life on your own terms. You're self-sufficient. You think for yourself and you march to the beat of your own drum. When life knocks you down, you get back up because in your gut, you know that's what men do. You're a badass and a warrior. And on the days when you forget, we are here to remind you
Guest Introduction: Michael D. Butler
00:00:54
Speaker
Welcome to Cyberman podcast, where we aim to make men masculine again. I'm your man, Nicky Baloo. And we've got a very special individual on our show today. This is my man, Michael D. Butler, the author of the book, the single dad's survival guide for reconnecting with kids and moving on with life after divorce. Welcome, Michael. Good to have you on the show, brother.
00:01:21
Speaker
Nikki, it's great to be here and nothing lights my fire more than helping dads and helping their kids get through a divorce in as an emotionally healthy way as possible.
00:01:34
Speaker
I appreciate that. I'll tell you a little bit of my story before we get into yours, because I definitely want that to be front and center
Personal Divorce Stories and Recovery
00:01:42
Speaker
today. But in 2009, my then wife, seemingly out of the blue, decided she didn't want to be married to me anymore. I was blindsided. Maybe I should have seen it coming, but I didn't. And I spiraled down into hell. She kicked me to the curb. I was sleeping on my mother's couch for a year.
00:02:02
Speaker
I wasn't able to take care of my kids and provide for them. And it took other men really to get me out of this. It took the energy of masculine brotherhood and fatherhood to get me out of that situation. And I did get out of this situation. It's one of the things that's led me to want to start this group because I think as I've told you before, we're living in a time where man, manhood and masculinity are not
00:02:32
Speaker
facing their best times ever. The world has taken a big dump on us. And a few years ago, one of my coaches said, look, you need to put a program together for
00:02:44
Speaker
single dads who are like you were, who are like newly kicked to the curb by their wives, right? They're just a little lost, they're scared. So I did that and I called it, I kind of followed President Trump's lead and I called it, make your life great again. You know what I mean? And we started- I like that. Yeah, it's good stuff. And I've worked with about a half a dozen dads. All these are men of traditional values, they're successful men, they're business owners, all with kids under 18.
00:03:13
Speaker
And I took him through an eight week process to get him out of hell. You know what I mean? Beautiful. And it was good. I'm proud to have done that for some of these men. For a couple of them, we were able to even get their families put back together again, which was lovely. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. But at the end of the day, the problem is that this happens to a lot of men. And I know you know this. So why don't we segue into you telling us your story.
00:03:41
Speaker
Well, this is, you know, I married my high school sweetheart and we never, we never anticipate, we don't plan for divorce. You know, when you stand up there and do your vows, that's your, that's your dream. And, um, you know, we, we had four sons, 10, eight, six, and four when I was served divorce papers.
00:03:58
Speaker
But he had gotten to the point with me, Nikki, that I was in a lot of pain. I was in a lot of emotional pain. We were young when we married and we just had trouble communicating. I was 20. She was 18. And we wanted to be in the ministry together. That was our thing. We both felt a call to ministry. She moved from Texas to Oklahoma. And the only thing on her list, on her bucket list, was to marry a preacher because she could sing and she felt called to ministry. Her parents were in the ministry.
00:04:25
Speaker
And she was the only Christian in my high school, you know, and I decided that I'm going to marry a Christian. And the fact that I was marrying a woman that wanted to be in the ministry and that could sing and compliment me in the ministry, you know, it was three years of dating and marrying my high school sweetheart. And then
00:04:45
Speaker
A lot of adjustments, right, but I believe anything can be worked out, even if a spouse commits adultery, you know, the Bible, you know, I was a pastor for 14 years and you don't have to be a Bible scholar or theologian to realize when you read the scripture, you know, God does not.
00:05:01
Speaker
God allows remarriage. He wants people to be happy. And when it comes to adultery, when it comes to your spouse beating you, mental, emotional abuse and checked into an insane asylum, you know, there's all kinds of reasons, abandonment that, you know, there's some Christians that even people in the world that are not, don't call themselves Christians that feel guilty about a remarriage after their spouse has been missing for eight years or something like that. And the Bible says it's better to marry than to burn.
00:05:31
Speaker
And, you know, Paul said a lot about divorce and remarriage. Jesus said a lot about divorce and remarriage. And Moses talked about divorce and remarriage. And just like in your situation, you're happily remarried. I am happily remarried. October 1, just recently, a few months ago, happily remarried was single for a lot of years. But Nikki, the main thing for me is, like you said,
00:05:54
Speaker
I was depressed. I was suicidal. I was angry. I had abandonment issues. I started drinking. I had never drank. I became an alcoholic and started abusing alcohol. Started sleeping around and picking up women at bars. And about six months into that, I said, this is not who I am. This is not who I am. When I realized I couldn't get my marriage back,
00:06:19
Speaker
You know, when I was serving the divorce papers, my first thought was relief. I felt relief because things were so brutally, verbally combative in the home.
00:06:29
Speaker
that I thought, I'm just gonna be a good dad. I'm just gonna raise my kids and have a peaceful time of being in my son's lives and attending their ball games. But I didn't realize that it would affect me at such a deep level emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and physically.
Therapy and Recovery Programs
00:06:46
Speaker
And if it wasn't for getting help, if it wasn't for going to therapy, if it wasn't for reaching out and getting counseling and professional help and joining Divorce Recovery, Divorce Recovery saved my life.
00:06:58
Speaker
You know, John Eldridge and Wild at Heart, that program saved my life that it's okay to be a man. It's okay to have feelings. It's okay to feel angry. It's okay to express your feelings, but then learn how to compartmentalize those feelings because compartmental...
00:07:14
Speaker
Station is a good thing. I had my kids every other weekend during the separation and after the divorce and I was there for them I just wanted to be there for them because I knew they were going through a lot at 10 8 6 and 4 and unfortunately for us my wife didn't want to go to counseling and therapy and I realized that I was going to therapy and counseling to work on myself personally to work on my abandonment issues to work on my addiction issues to work on my anger issues and you know
00:07:41
Speaker
Things still come up and I addressed him and I asked myself, why am I feeling this way? And do I need to forgive? Is there somebody I haven't forgiven? You know, and the thing over the years now that my kids are 33, 31, 29 and 27 and there's been so many proud moments and I'm so proud of them and they've given me two amazing
00:08:00
Speaker
grandsons that they're just amazing sons and, and I can never go back and undo the divorce or the damage that was done, the hurt things that I said to them and or their mother, I wish I could take back, but I can't. All I can do is, is ask them to forgive me, to be humble, and then to forgive myself. Yeah. 100%. 100%. You know, there is a, um, there's a man by the name of Justin Sterling.
00:08:28
Speaker
And he has been doing this work for men and women out of his Institute of Relationship, the Sterling Institute of Relationships since the late 70s. And by the way, he's got a men's weekend program that I've done myself, some of the men in the Sovereign Man Group that you recently joined me in have done. And he's doing his next program at the beginning of June. So we ought to talk about that offline. It's really worth doing.
00:08:56
Speaker
very powerful. I love programs like that and we definitely want to check it out because you know what it's things like that. You mentioned getting around the men and I have a whole chapter in my book about avoiding the cave. You know there's modern culture has popularized the man cave and also popularized
00:09:16
Speaker
the idea and the concept of toxic masculinity. And I got to say this about my dad. I grew up in a home where my dad was present. I'd never heard him curse. He was always kind and gentle, and he was always there, not only as a good provider. And I think the biggest thing for me, Nikki, was the guilt, the guilt and the shame of
00:09:35
Speaker
being a statistic, the guilt and the shame of being in ministry and losing my family, losing my spouse, even though I had started business and left the ministry a year before my wife filed for divorce, there was a lot of baggage I carried with me. On the book here, the single dad survival guide, it's kind of funny here on the back, but it's true. There's the luggage, right? There's the luggage. Even the family pets got the luggage.
00:10:02
Speaker
This book always does really well around Father's Day because we package it as a gift to give to the man in your life that's going through divorce because we realize women buy and read and write 90% of the books and men just go into their man cave and self-medicate or do things like that.
00:10:18
Speaker
Either we become workaholics, right, we go into our man cave, but if we will get in a group like you've talked about, get into a group like divorce care, actually went through divorce care a couple times because of the anger, because of the abandonment, and then end up facilitating divorce care.
00:10:34
Speaker
and it's just a powerful place to be around other people that are going through what you're going through that can challenge you and say this is who this is what you're feeling right now but this is not who you are this is what you've been through but it doesn't define you you can love again you can have a relationship again
00:10:56
Speaker
But so many singles, I mean, we had people as a moderator for divorce care, we had to mediate and say, hey guys, this is not a pickup place, this is not a place where you're dating again. So after divorce care, we'd all go out to dinner together, right? Because you know that feeling of being alone, Nicky, one of the thing that really made me cry for the first time after the divorce is I walk into a restaurant by myself and the host says, just one,
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah. It might as well been with the megaphone in slow motion and she's just making fun of me and everybody's pointing at me and listening and laughing is just one. Then a few months later, I go in and proudly say, yes, it's me. Then I just go straight to the bar because there's no waiting at the bar. But then there's another thing of, okay, if I'm at the bar watching the game and networking,
00:11:56
Speaker
Go light on the alcohol. Don't fall into another trap just because I'm hurting and I want to medicate that pain. All things in moderation, brother. And I got to say, there were some tough years in reconnecting with my kids because the subtitle is reconnecting with your kids and moving on with your life after divorce. And fortunately for us, I stayed within three miles of the kids until my last son got into college and then I moved out to California to start my company. But I always wanted to be in their life.
00:12:26
Speaker
I tried my best to be at every game. I tried my best to be at every school play, to be at every graduation, to be at every birthday party. And fortunately for my wife and I, we got along pretty good when it came to birthday parties and Christmas and holidays. That's tough for dads. That's tougher for men when the other person is doing an emotional parental sabotage where they're using the kids to get back or hurt the other person. But
00:12:53
Speaker
I would say to a dad that's hurting, get yourself healthy first, grab the oxygen mask, get some men in your life, stop the financial bleeding.
Supporting Single Fathers: Programs and Strategies
00:13:03
Speaker
It's gonna hurt financially. They say it takes seven years to recover from a divorce. Marriage is grand, divorce about a hundred grand. I think now in the economy, marriage is about two to 300 grand depending, but just, it's gonna take a while to recover. So think smart, think like a business owner, but the main thing is heal yourself first so we don't repeat the patterns.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of good things you said. I wanna unpack some of this. And before we unpack it, I wanna just finish the thought that I had around Justin Sterling and the work that he does, right? The problem that men, even men like you and I who are conscious of this stuff face in 2023 and frankly have been facing since the mid sixties is that the culture right now has gone from celebrating men in manhood and masculinity
00:13:53
Speaker
24-7, 365, taking a dump on man-manhood and masculinity. The messages are all, you're bad, you're wrong, you're toxic for being a man. By the way, there's no such thing as toxic masculinity. I want to just make that clear. That is a phrase invented by an evil, evil, dark set of forces that are trying to... It's an oxymoron. You're exactly right. 100%.
00:14:14
Speaker
Whether you like it or not, these influences are coming your way. And they're causing you to, in subtle ways that you don't even see, behave in a boyish, feminized, unmasculant way. And the only way you can do something about it is with other men.
00:14:31
Speaker
You can read all the books you want. You can go, yeah, yeah, that's great. But the environment is feminized. You're with your family. It's not a masculine environment. You're with your wife. You better not be masculine with your wife. It ain't going to work, right? You're with young kids under the age 18. You can be a little bit masculine to be sure, but your wife's there to make sure that you're also not super hyper masculine with them because it's not going to fly to behave in that fashion.
00:15:00
Speaker
in that environment. At work, you work with women primarily, brother. You've got to cater to your audience, right? Right, exactly. I mean, but when you're with men and with men who understand this, you can let your hair down. You can be masculine. You can have a masculine exchange. You know, you can yell and scream at each other if you want to. And 10 minutes later, you put your arms around each other, go grab a beer. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?
00:15:47
Speaker
Right? And this next one is coming up, I think June 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Any man who's listening to this, you may want to check it out for yourself. And if you're interested, I don't get a toaster for signing you up. Okay. But I'll be honored to be your sponsor. It's kind of like AA in that fashion. You got to have a sponsor bringing in. But that's cool. Yeah. I think it's good. Yeah. The things that you said around needing to stay involved in your kids' lives. I think that's important in that eight week program I put together, make your life great again.
00:15:55
Speaker
a a a
00:16:16
Speaker
You know what, brother, it might make sense for you and I to team up and do a book around this. I've been wanting to write a book about this, but maybe I've been writing all these business and political books. I haven't had time, but if you're up for it, I'd love to team up and put something. Hey, I would love to do it. I think it needs to be done and it needs to happen. It does. I'll put the entire content in the book for free. But if you need help, and a lot of men will need help, reach out to me, I'll help you. We'll sign you up for the program. So we're doing a book.
00:16:45
Speaker
we're doing a book hey by the way i'm doing a book i'm doing a book with david grossman too colonel david grossman who wrote on hunting on killing and on spiritual combat oh yeah yeah so he and i are doing a book on monday we're talking to his publisher so god bless me i'm just committed to three more books in the next year me too and run my business take my kids to hockey and soccer fabulous it's great
00:17:08
Speaker
How old are your kids now, Nicky? 17 and 15. 17 and 15. See, I would love to have those years back because I got to tell you, man, they go so quickly. Now that they're 33 to 26, it just flies by. And you know, what do you do? Because I can hear a single dad saying, you know, I'm not hearing my kids. I'm not seeing my kids. I know one Marine Corps parent, the wife got a restraining order because he had some anger issues and PTSD and stuff like that.
00:17:37
Speaker
So she knew intimately what he was going through on the PTSD and she used that against him to get a restraining order where now he has supervised visitation. I think that's just so sad that she resorted to that to try to hurt him further.
00:17:52
Speaker
but he he's with his kids as much as he can be it's only once a month he gets supervised visits so what i would say to the dads that are alienated from your kids do the best you can send them a text message uh be there every time you can make it a priority even if it hurts you financially even if you have to drive even if you have to fly
00:18:12
Speaker
I would say, stay close to home, stay close to them until they get 18 so that you can do that. It's tougher if they're further away. It's tougher if their mom or you work in a different city, but there are things you can do creatively
Staying Connected with Children
00:18:26
Speaker
now. We didn't have FaceTime and Zoom when my kids were young because my divorce was 24 years ago, but I got to tell you,
00:18:34
Speaker
the kids know when you are thinking about them and so I even you know my my two youngest I'll text them and call them and I don't always hear back from them my two oldest I always hear back from them they're very respectful but my two youngest they're more like the Gen Z generation where they say oh yeah I'll see you at Christmas kind of thing which it hurts me but at the same time it helps me realize that okay
00:18:56
Speaker
I know they're well because if they needed me, they would call me. There's been times where they've called and said, dad, I need some cash or whatever. And I know they're fine. They just don't need dad as much as they used to. The dad ATM, that's definitely my teenage boy dad.
00:19:14
Speaker
Can I buy this? Can you give me that? Oh my God. And if the money's there, I'm always a yes. If it's not eight kids, no. So I can't do it right now. The other thing, Nicky, that's very important. I wanted to mention, you know, we talk about turning divorce care into a pickup bar. That's not ideal. It, you know, they say you need a year of, of recovery for air.
00:19:33
Speaker
where every four years you were married. So in my case, I was married 14 years, so I needed three years of recovery. I probably started dating within two years, and that probably wasn't enough time. My biggest fear was that I was going to do a rebound marriage and just repeat a failure. So I did stay single for six years, but I did start dating two years in. At least I gave myself two years to emotionally heal, work through my pain and trauma.
00:19:59
Speaker
otherwise you bring that out in the next relationship you bring it out and the thing I wanted to say about that is when my kids were young they didn't meet a woman they did not meet a woman on my weekend unless it was somebody I was thinking about proposing to it was it was somebody that I knew was marriage material that had a possible future with me and I was still checking her out then I was slowly
00:20:21
Speaker
Uh and gently introduce somebody like we would go to church on a sunday and then she would come eat with us And then she would go home. It wasn't like we would hang out all weekend She definitely didn't stay the night or anything like that because I wanted my kids to feel like Our weekend was dad time that was our time with dad and that was my time with my kids since I would say You know if you think about your
00:20:42
Speaker
kids, they go through different things, some of them are more emotional, some of them are more quiet, they keep their emotions inside, they need counseling, they need therapy, they need to be able to talk to somebody about the feelings they're going through, particularly if there's a lot of parental, ex-parental conflict. Yeah, there's good points you're making over there. So for me, in the Make Your Life Great Again program, the first thing that we do week one is
Taking Responsibility Post-Divorce
00:21:12
Speaker
Um, take ownership. You're not her victim. You're not her victim. Yeah. Okay. And she's mad. And here's the deal. Feminine gets angry. Whatever the reasons are, you got to take ownership. You can't go pointing fingers at her. Look how horrible she is. No, let's be honest. This is 2023. And for the last 60 years, close to 60 years,
00:21:33
Speaker
Let's be honest, men have been feminized and they're not showing up in a masculine way around women. And that, you know, that causes women to feel scared. Women need a steady rock of a man. And if they feel that there's a chink in that, that makes them scared. And the, and the messages from the culture.
00:21:50
Speaker
to them are even more insidious than they are to us. Cause they're telling her you can be just like a man. In fact, go act like a man. Don't act like a woman. You don't need a man. He's bad. He's wrong. 24 seven 365. They're telling her that you're a sucker for having gotten married and been with a man. And unless she is part of a group of women who are helping her see that her feminine, it's okay to be feminine. It's okay to be awesome. This is what's going to send her into the, into the, into the bad space.
00:22:20
Speaker
and have her act badly. And if your wife is, you know, doing things that are hurtful to you, the answer can't be for you to just hit her back harder. The answer's gotta be, you're the man, you take the blow for the family, take it for her, take it for the kids. And then you go, I understand that. And one of the things I said during the process of my divorce was, you know, I guess I must've really screwed up as a husband for you to decide that you needed to do this.
00:22:50
Speaker
And she was like, whoa. And that was like, you're taking this really well. I go, well, I don't know that there's another way to take it. Because if I take it any other way, that's disempowering to me, bad for my kids, bad for her. Nicky, that was the truth. I did not realize till about five or six years after my marriage, I played the victim role, even though I did all these therapy things. And even though I did the Disneyland dad thing for a while,
00:23:16
Speaker
uh i was still blaming i was still blaming even though i didn't talk bad about her to the kids they never heard me once say anything bad it was here so i'm sure that feeling was projected because they're my kids they they pick up on that right they pick up on but i did finally own it i did finally own it it just took me longer but what you said right there is so liberating and that i think
00:23:40
Speaker
will release a lot of the stress from your kids. Yeah, it's sad they're going through a divorce, but I think it helps them cope quicker and process better by knowing that dad's taken responsibility. Yes. And it's very important. So that's kind of like in my kind of eight week, make your life great again coaching that I do with a man.
00:24:00
Speaker
You own it. You're not a victim. I get that man out of victim mode. If he's not willing to do that, I'll fire him as a client. Like that's gotta be the first thing he's willing to do. No more blaming her. You totally own it. You take it up, right? Second thing you do is you go hardcore.
00:24:15
Speaker
on making sure the kids are good. Your job is now father protector, right? You gotta go, as you said, spend time with the kids, do stuff with the kids, let them know the divorce ain't their fault. This is so important for a father to do for the kids. A lot of fathers don't do that. They kind of think the kids know, they don't know. The kids are thinking this is our fault. We caused mom and dad to break up. We're bad. If we were better, they'd be together and you need to go tell them.
00:24:44
Speaker
This is not your fault.
00:24:46
Speaker
In fact, what kept us together as long as we were together was you. If it weren't for you, we would have done worse. That's what you gotta tell them. It is not your fault. You did nothing wrong. This is all on dad. And you gotta take it yourself. This is all on dad. I screwed up. I'm bad. And I'm gonna do better right now. And there is so much relief for those children when they hear that. All the daddy issue, girls, this gets rid of 99% of their daddy issues.
00:25:15
Speaker
Yeah, because if we don't say that to them, and I'm so glad you shared that, the enemy plays on that. That's the lie in their head. So the enemy has the lie that he tells your ex-wife, then the enemy has the lie that he's telling your kids. But you're circumventing that because the truth sets them free. And the truth is, it was not my fault. This is, you know, God loves me. God has a plan for my life. And I'm not the reason my parents got a divorce. They need to hear that repeatedly again and again and again and again.
00:25:45
Speaker
Good job. And I think we bring that up in our book together, Nikki. I got the eight modules, man. The eight chapters, intro, eight chapters, conclusion. I got it all laid out for you, pal. All we got to do is come up with a title, subtitle. We each have an interesting bio. Make your life great again. Make your life great again. There you go. There you go. There you go. Yes, that'll be great. It's good. And it's going to be a red cover with white letters, right?
00:26:17
Speaker
Yeah, so the truth of the matter is though, a lot of fathers, this is the other thing that they need to understand,
Health and Well-being Focus
00:26:25
Speaker
right?
00:26:25
Speaker
that your job is to take full ownership, your job is to look after your kids, and then your job is to look after you. You know what you talked about? You did. Thankfully, that's one thing I didn't do. Thankfully, I went to the gym. I didn't go to the bars. I went to the gym.
00:26:45
Speaker
Yeah, I started going through the gym too. Oh, I got to tell you, Nikki, during that time, I was working 80 to 100 hours a week. But here's what was going on. I was drinking a two liter of Mountain Dew a day. Wow. I was driving through fast food three to four times a day. Wow. I had brain fog. I would check out in the middle of a sentence. I just have brain fog. I had so many health issues. I was overweight. I wasn't getting enough sleep. I started janitorial company. I was working at night.
00:27:15
Speaker
And I'm glad you're talking about this. I'm glad we're talking about this. This is going to be epic and awesome. Yeah. Because a man's got to take care of himself. That's the other thing. He's got to like, this is the thing that we get the man to do is we go, listen, man, look after your health.
00:27:32
Speaker
No drinking, no boring, no boring. You go to the gym, you work out, you eat clean. That's gotta be a step that you take as part of this process of making your life great again. Because if you do that- Prepare yourself. Exactly, you're purifying the ball- For the next- Yeah, I know you work with a lot of law enforcement and former military and current military like I do.
00:27:58
Speaker
And having that discipline, I'm running my set marathon next week, I'm in training mode. And having the discipline to prepare yourself, you want the great marriage, prepare yourself for the spouse that you're wanting to attract because God's not going to bring them until you've got your mindset cleaned up, you're out of victim mode, you're getting emotionally healthy, you're reading the word, you're getting a purpose and a vision where there's no vision that people perish.
00:28:23
Speaker
And so I've got a vision for my life. Nicky, you've got a vision for your life. King Solomon said that, right? King Solomon said that in the Bible. Yeah, and he even, he screwed up those relationships. He had a thousand wives, but at the end of the day, he said, he gave us some wisdom. Proverbs 31.
00:28:40
Speaker
was the woman that we all want. That's the woman we all want. He wrote that after being with 700 wives and 300 concubines and serving other gods. He came back in his older years like his father and said, I've sinned, but I want to do what's right and do what's right for my nation and do what's right for my legacy and my grandchildren. Amen. So those are the steps that I think every father who's newly become single needs to take right away.
00:29:10
Speaker
And here's the other thing that you gotta do is you gotta find a way to let your wife or soon to be ex-wife know that you're cool.
00:29:26
Speaker
You're going to cooperate with her that you still love her. Whether you are together or not, she's the mother of your kids. And this is a position of honor and respect. And it's very important for you as a man to do that, to let her know that and do not get into this fighting BS. You know what I mean? That people get into. It's just not cool. It's not going to work well.
00:29:51
Speaker
Well, it's like the little Nikki and the little Michael, you know, when we were kids, we would throw a fit when we were four or five, when we didn't get our way. And I had a therapist tell me during that time, she said, I want you to validate little Mikey and give him a hug and have a conversation with him and had a conversation where I acknowledged his feelings, but, and I forgave him for not standing up for him. But I said, now that you're an adult.
00:30:15
Speaker
you're not gonna be able to act like that. And for those of you that wanna get your wives back, you mentioned this, Nikki, and I tried to get my wife back. And if you wanna get your wife back, you gotta show her that you mean business in the personal growth space and that you're willing to take ownership. If that's a separation for a while, if that's even remarrying even after the divorce has been final, if you're out there living out your anger and your addiction and the other person can see there's no personal growth, they're not gonna want you back.
00:30:44
Speaker
But it is a two-way street, and forgiveness is the big thing. Forgiving yourself, forgiving others. And at some point, you've got to realize, I can't control what the other person does. I'm going to move forward in God's plan with my life. If that's reconciling my marriage, great. You and I have seen a lot of that happen over the years. But it doesn't always happen that way. And if it doesn't, you've got to grieve it and let it go. And for the sake of you and your kids, you move on.
00:31:11
Speaker
and follow the Lord. But I love what you said about getting yourself healthy. Stay healthy because God's got something bigger and better for you, even if it's with the same spouse or a different spouse in the future.
Influence of Behavior on Relationships
00:31:24
Speaker
Amen. Amen. It's super, super important. And you know, one of my mentors, when I was going through my divorce, God has a sense of humor, by the way.
00:31:36
Speaker
you know, I got to tell you who this guy was and why he was the best mentor for a man going through a divorce is he made the best golfer in the world black Tiger Woods, right? He made the best rapper in the world, a white guy, Eminem. And he made the best heterosexual marriage counselor in the world, a gay man. So it's just, it was just wild. And he was my counselor and what he told me, his name was Owen. And what he told me is he said, look,
00:32:06
Speaker
women fall in love with a man over his behavior. They fall out of love with a man over his behavior. And they'll fall back in love with that man over his behavior. And I built that in to make your life great again. It's like, look, you need to behave differently. Who you were led your wife to vote no. Now, maybe she'll get back together again with you. Maybe she won't.
00:32:34
Speaker
But who you need to be right now has got to shock her, has got to go, who is this man? He's not the man that I want to leave. Maybe he's the man that I originally wanted to marry. And so your behavior needs to shift. You do that, it's going to be shocking to her in a good way. But that's what a man needs to focus on, in my view. Plus, it speaks volumes to your children of respect and the way
00:32:59
Speaker
The way to handle that situation because what we don't want to do is repeat the pattern. My mom came from a terrible situation and she broke the cycle and then I believe my kids can bring the cycle full circle and show the love and the respect and not be the victim.
00:33:21
Speaker
the victim and I projected that onto my wife and I had unrealistic expectations that she could never meet because I didn't have a group of guys around me. So, I'm excited that we're talking about Sterling Men's weekend. I'm excited that we're talking about doing a book together. Father's Day is coming up. It's a tough time. I can remember my first Father's Day away from my kids. It's a tough time. I mean, I think I went to a sports bar or something and
00:33:46
Speaker
had a burger and a beer and I didn't know anybody I was in a new town and it's a tough time so don't isolate get around get around guys that can support you at church find a good church with a good men's group and grab your copy of single dad survival guide grab it as a gift for a guy in your life buy a couple copies share it give it away and it'll give some some great things like improving the emotional health the kids how to stop the money bleeding how to save yourself financially how to prepare yourself for that next relationship and
00:34:14
Speaker
It sounds like we're going to be hanging out over the weekend, June 2nd through 4th, Nikki. I'm excited about that. And because you know what, no matter how long ago my divorce was, I realized I need to sharpen myself and get around guys that are making it happen. Because there's always somebody that will be the Roger Bannister for me.
00:34:30
Speaker
that I need in my life. Nobody thought anybody could run a four-minute mile. And then finally, one day, Roger Bannister did it. He broke the four-minute mile. That next year, 130 people, because they saw an example, they broke that four-minute mile, and people are still breaking bigger records. You don't have to be a statistic no matter what your background was, no matter what your childhood and upbringing was like, no matter what kind of addictions and dysfunction there was. You can be the pace-setter and set the standard in your generation.
00:34:59
Speaker
Amen, brother. Amen. And you know, in your book, you mentioned the importance of healing financially. And I think that's super, super important. One of the things you got to take responsibility for is making sure that you're a father provider. And that means that you got to take care of business with money. You've got to do that. There is no other way. And I think that's very, very important to get to men.
00:35:24
Speaker
And lastly, you got to pay it forward to other men,
Support and Resource Sharing
00:35:30
Speaker
right? Like part of what you're talking about with your book is don't just buy a copy for yourself, buy a copy and give it to a gift to a man who needs this. A man who's recently gone through a divorce. That is what it's all about.
00:35:42
Speaker
Men have always been community builders. And one of the ways you build a community is that you pay it forward by helping another man who's hurting. And if you're not already part of a men's group, you need to be part of one. We created Sovereign Man to have a place that celebrates men, manhood and masculinity.
00:36:01
Speaker
and you need to check it out. If you don't have a men's group, come check out Sovereign Man. Go to sovereignman.ca. Come to a meeting. It's free to attend a meeting and to check out who we are, what we do for men, and what it's all about. It's super, super important, but you need to pay it forward to other men, and you need to make sure that you're with other men in a masculine environment.
00:36:22
Speaker
That's important because there's a lot of so-called men's groups that don't provide a masculine environment because the thinking they bring to the group is very much feminized. You know what I mean? So one of the things I see in some groups right now, they'll just say, let's support this man. Listen, man, you know, men don't need support. Bros are for support. Bros give you support. Men need accountability. You don't need to support a man. You need to hold him accountable to his word and his commitments.
00:36:51
Speaker
because if you support him, you're actually weakening him. Oh, that's okay. You're going to be fine. No, he doesn't need that. He's a man. Yeah. A little boy needs that. A man needs like, Hey, Nikki, Mike, Michael comes to Nikki. Oh, Hey, Nikki, you screwed up.
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah, he's badly screwed up. What are you going to do differently? Not Nikki, it's okay that you script. No, no, Michael, Nikki, you screwed up. What are you going to change? How are you going to fix it? That's accountability. Now, look, you kick a man when he's down. If a man's broken, do you go while you screw up? No, you don't do that, man. You lift that man up and you help him out, but you still don't speak to him like he's broken.
00:37:31
Speaker
You hold him up until he's strong enough to move forward. That's the difference between a masculine environment and a boyish or feminized environment. And it's very important, right, that men are in a masculine environment. And it's no disrespect to women and femininity. I love women and I love femininity and I think feminized environments are amazing and they're amazing for women and girls to be in them.
Engaging in Masculine Environments
00:37:56
Speaker
Right. And we live in a feminized world. So you're going to be in a bit of a feminized environment, whether you like it or not, but you still need a masculine environment to bring out that, that bad ass, that warrior within. That's what's going to allow you to live life as the best version of yourself. And that's what's going to help us save our society. Cause right now our society is under attack, man.
00:38:16
Speaker
There's some crazy stuff going on in there, you know. There's some insanity that's going on at the level of our government that seems to be letting in a gazillion people through the border. They are trying to pretend that men can be women. I mean, these are folks who supposedly are champions for women, yet they're letting men into women's spaces and scaring the crap out of them. I think that's absolutely insane.
00:38:40
Speaker
And all of this is taking place on our watch. We gotta do something about it. We gotta start speaking. SovereignMan.ca is the website, right? SovereignMan.ca is the website. We gotta do something about it as a community. We can make a difference, yeah. Yeah, make a difference.
00:38:55
Speaker
Great great great group so proud to be a part of the group i've been bringing people in it's it's it's much needed because it's i think it's the missing element there's a lot of men's groups in churches where they have eggs and bacon and a nice little talk and testimonial but it doesn't challenge it's not iron sharpening iron like sovereign man is no no i appreciate that well listen we're gonna make sure hold that book up again one more time brother yeah single dad survival guy grab a copy for somebody you know
Resource Highlight: 'The Single Dad's Survival Guide'
00:39:21
Speaker
Grab a copy for yourself and this will help them get to the next level, navigate the phase, reconnect with their kids and move on in the areas of finances, emotional health and future success.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yes. God bless you for that, man. Thank you so much for coming on the show, sharing your wisdom and come on back. Great to be here, Nikki. Just really proud of all you're doing with Sovereign Man. I think that's the missing element. And this is going to, you know, the rally cry for, for men in the cave that are hurting and self-medicating. This is a chance for them to get back in the game.
00:39:51
Speaker
tape it up and get back in the game. Now more than ever, God needs a man's voice and families and children need their father to be present, not just present physically, but also present emotionally and making a difference. So the little things, the little text messages, the little reminders, know your kid's love language, communicate them in that language, and keep up the great work. Really happy to be partnering with you even on this new book, and it's going to be epic. It's going to be fun. I think it's going to be fun, man.
00:40:20
Speaker
All right, man. Catch you on the flip side. God bless. Thank you for listening to the Sovereign Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life and become the man you've always wanted to be, we invite you to join the movement at sovereignman.ca.