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With Jonathan Pountney
299 Plays7 months ago
In addition to podcasts ;) books and tracts can be great tools for sharing the gospel and helping you learn about evangelism. Our guest today leads a Christian publishing ministry. He shares some top title recommendations, insight into trends in reading, and top tips on getting printed material into the hands of those who need to hear the gospel message.
Along the way, we mention "Scattering Seeds of Hope" by the late Jeremy Marshall and "Have No Fear" by Prof John Lennox. You can find our own "Have You Ever Wondered?" and plenty of tracts to give away on the 10ofThose website.
Jonathan Pountney is the Editorial Director at 10ofThose, responsible for their publishing house 10Publishing. Prior to working in publishing, he taught Literature at the University of Manchester and he holds a PhD in American Studies.
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Transcript
Introduction to Pep Talk Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Hi everybody and welcome to another exciting episode of pep talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast from Solas. Every fortnight we get together to talk about evangelism, sharing the good news of Jesus with people that we're just longing to hear the message that has brought us life and hope. I'm joined this week by Christy Mayer. Christy, how are you?
00:00:27
Speaker
Oh, I'm doing well, thanks Gavin. It's great to be with you. I don't often get to do this with you. In fact, I think this is our first conversation together, isn't it, on pep talk? So we will either be the dream team or it will be a complete car crash. We will find out. When you co-present with Andy, he always introduces you with some interesting adjectives like my effervescent co-host and things like that. So I was thinking I should introduce you as my erudite and articulate co-host.
00:00:51
Speaker
No pressure. It's great to be with you, Gavin. How are you doing? I'm doing okay, thank
Meet Jonathan Poutney from Ten of Those
00:00:56
Speaker
you. I am also delighted to be joined this week by Jonathan Poutney, who is the editorial director at Ten of Those Publishing. Jonathan, how are you? I'm very well, thank you, Gavin. Thanks for having me. That's good. And where are you joining us from today? I'm in the Ten of Those office in Leyland, which is in central Lancashire.
00:01:14
Speaker
So I'm up in Scotland, you're in the middle and Christie is right down there in the south of England. So what does this job involve? You run a publishing house. Tell us what that looks like for you very briefly. Yeah, of course. Well, I'm responsible for producing all of the in-house resources and books, that 10 of those.
00:01:34
Speaker
I run a small publishing team full of brilliant people, production managers and editors and marketers. You produce gospel resources and books that point people to the Lord Jesus. That's our strapline. We want to produce books that point people to the Lord Jesus.
00:01:53
Speaker
So Jonathan, what usually goes on in the everyday life, day-to-day life of an, are you an editorial director for 10 of those? What is the average day like for you? It's a good question and everyday is different. It's a bit of a Swiss Army knife role really in many ways. So my role sort of includes commissioning new projects, working with
00:02:16
Speaker
with authors on new ideas and with editors on manuscripts and I do a little bit of production work as well and work with our brilliant design team and cover designers to produce new cover artwork for our books and I do a little bit of international rights work trying to work with our international partners to get our books into other languages around the world and
00:02:44
Speaker
Yeah, so lots of things really, and it's a great role to have, something I'm very privileged to do and something I really enjoy.
Jonathan's Journey from Academia to Publishing
00:02:53
Speaker
Your background is in academia, so you could have gone down that route, but you've chosen to go into publishing and Christian publishing specifically. What was it that drew you into publishing Christian work? How were you called into this?
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good question, Gavin. I mean, I've always loved books. My background before working in publishing was
00:03:16
Speaker
in academia I have a PhD in literature and I taught in a number of different literature departments in the UK and I really enjoyed that and it was something that was really in many ways my dream job but I had an opportunity to take a sort of a step sideways as it were into the world of publishing and
00:03:41
Speaker
I did and have enjoyed it since starting. I love being part of a team that can produce great books and that really is where my passion lies. It suits me down to the ground from that point of view.
00:03:59
Speaker
That's really cool, John. I mean, obviously I don't know you very well. We've literally just met, but to hear Gavin say that you have a PhD in literature, that's fantastic. I imagine some people might be hearing this and thinking, wow, you've gone from academic PhD, you're still a super brainy guy, and now you're involved in publishing. What kind of overlap do you see between the two? How does your love of literature, how has that formed your love of books?
00:04:26
Speaker
Well, yeah, that's very kind. Thank you. I don't know how true that is really, but I certainly was surrounded by very brainy people when I was at universities. But anyway, writing is a big part of what I'm doing and working with authors and honing and crafting and communicating clearly. That's all part of publishing.
00:04:50
Speaker
Beyond that, a lot of my research and all the work that I was doing when I was at university was around the history of publishing and the history of how books have been produced in the last 100 years or so and the trends that took place, particularly in the secular market, but a lot of those traits and ideas transfer into the Christian market as well, of course. There's a bit of crossover there.
Books for Evangelism and Encouragement
00:05:18
Speaker
So in the Christian market, what are some of the books that you have produced that you think are really helpful for people, particularly in terms of getting the gospel out in reference to that strap line from 10 of those that you shared with us and
00:05:30
Speaker
What effect do books have on Christian people in terms of encouraging and equipping us in sharing the gospel with other people? And are there a couple of books you've been involved in producing over the last few years and you thought, now that, that was a good book. That's done really good work amongst Christian people. Yeah, it's a great question, Gavin. Thanks.
00:05:49
Speaker
There's two sides to producing gospel resources that we see as a company. The first side is producing resources that encourage the believer in sharing their faith. So the number of titles that we produce that I look at and think,
00:06:05
Speaker
That's a wonderfully warm and encouraging book that will enable the believer to share their faith. So last year we had the privilege of producing a book by Jeremy Marshall called Scattering Seeds of Hope. A wonderfully warm book that encourages believers to literally scatter the gospel seed, where they go, telling their friends, family, people they meet about their faith.
00:06:30
Speaker
We have more sort of systematic books that do that well as well. We've got a book by an American author called Matt Smithhurst called Before You Share Your Faith.
00:06:39
Speaker
five principles in how you go about sharing the gospel but things to think through before you go and do that and it's again a really encouraging read and other books like that you know a book by John Lennox is a similar thing and so those are reasonably short books are quite digestible and pretty accessible and that's the aim really we want we want as many people reading these books so that the church more broadly is encouraged
00:07:04
Speaker
But the other side of that then is books that you can use in evangelism, books or resources that you can give to people with the gospel message inside presented in an attractive way that engages with people where they're at. And we've got a wide range of resources that do that and do that in different ways. And I don't know if you want to mention your book, Gavin, but we've got the privilege of a book by you coming out
00:07:33
Speaker
later this year called Have You Ever Wondered, which does that. It really engages with readers on questions that they would have. I wouldn't dream of mentioning it, but do feel free.
00:07:48
Speaker
Oh, Jonathan, I mean, that's such a great kind of dual focus that 10 of those have. What have you read like in the past year or so? Maybe it's have you ever wondered, but what have you read in the past year or so that's particularly encouraged you in your own evangelism, in your own sharing of Jesus with others? What have you particularly personally benefited from?
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, I do think the best book we produced in recent times on encouraging believers in sharing your faith is the book I mentioned before, Scatteries of Hope by Jeremy Marshall. That's got a nice pairing in that at the same time we produced another short book called Meeting Jesus by Him, which is the kind of book you might give to a friend or a colleague or a neighbour that looks at a number of different encounters that Jesus has in the Gospels with individuals.
00:08:44
Speaker
and it really takes you into Scripture and really shows you how Jesus deals with people's problems and issues on a very personal level in the Gospels, then of course points beyond that to what he's done for us on the cross and through his resurrection. So that's a really nice pairing that I found helpful. One is the kind of the primer, one is the one you can then use to actually give to people.
00:09:08
Speaker
It's worth mentioning at this point how much everybody misses Jeremy Marshall. We were looking back over a hundred episodes of pep talk and I was saying to Christie that one of my favorite episodes was the time that Jeremy was on talking about some of those books and some of the principles that he uses in sharing the gospel. So I just thought we should mark that as we go past.
The Evolving Role of Books in the Church
00:09:27
Speaker
The other thing I wanted to ask you about was the changing nature of the way that people relate to the written word.
00:09:32
Speaker
you know, people are not engaging with it in the way that they perhaps used to. I read some research that said that under lockdown, more books were shifting. Is that holding? Are people still engaging? I mean, we're notably at the moment on the pep talk podcast, we're putting a lot of words out over the internet and not on the printed page at the moment. So if people are engaging this way, where do books sit and what's their role within the church today?
00:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's a very interesting question, Gavin. And it seems like for the last few decades, the media in general has been predicting the death of print, but it hasn't happened yet. And the signs are really that published books and printed media is
00:10:18
Speaker
people and you know I think that is true I mean we're all readers for starters you know everyone everyone reads but reading books in particular still holds a lot of cultural sway in our society I think you know that large portions of the population love to read books and they read in different ways right people read at home regularly you know before they go to bed or they read for pleasure in their spare time or people read on a holiday or
00:10:44
Speaker
People all read books to their kids. That's a big sector of the population that reads. Reading is a big part of our education system still. And so reading books really is something that
00:10:57
Speaker
even now, the youngest of generations is doing and is learning and forming habits that will probably last for much of their life. So I do think it's still a big deal. Publishing is still very much a big deal within our culture more generally. But I also think it's a big deal to publish a book. And so in one sense, it's easier to publish a book now more than ever. But
00:11:21
Speaker
if I can use this word without sounding too over the top, of prestige in publishing a book with a traditional publisher or having your name on the cover of a book. Now, that may be a good thing, that may be a bad thing. I'm not really passing judgment on that, but I do think that is true. And the point of that is, and the reason I'm saying that is because it means that people take notice of books, I think. And so when you give someone a book, an evangelistic book, a book about the Christian faith,
00:11:51
Speaker
I do think they sit up and listen. I do think they take notice of that. So I think this idea, and this is a big part of what we are trying to promote as a company, I have done for the last decade or so, is that there's real value in giving someone a book that contains the gospel.
00:12:11
Speaker
They receive it and think, this is something of value. They say, oh, you really thought of me here. And they hold on to it, and they read it, and they engage with it. I think that's what we see when we give people books. So yeah, that's a big thing that drives us and that we're a part of.
Effective Distribution of Christian Literature
00:12:28
Speaker
But beyond that, we are seeing increasing trends in people giving out traps and leaflets, which is encouraging.
00:12:36
Speaker
in the last few years in particular, we produced a tract during the pandemic and well over three quarters of a million copies of that tract went out across the country. We tend to find that that tracks and leaflets in particular work well
00:12:53
Speaker
during big kind of cultural moments, during national kind of cultural moments. So the Queen's pattern in Jubilee a few years ago, you know, again, hundreds of thousands of tracks went out. Again, when she died and passed away, hundreds of thousands of tracks went out.
00:13:09
Speaker
the king's coronation again hundreds of thousands of tracks went out i think quarter of a million tracks went out around that time we produced a lovely little square full color book fifty thousand copies went out you know it was it was being passed out in london during during the
00:13:24
Speaker
during the coronation. And we saw these wonderful photos of celebrities who are going to the ceremony holding copies of the book. And so I do think there are great opportunities using printed material and published material. And we've seen good examples of that in the last few years. Yeah, it's very encouraging. And lots to be thankful to the Lord for. And we pray on that these tracks and books have a big impact on people's hearts.
00:13:50
Speaker
The other week, me and Steve Osmond, I think, we were recording a conversation with Roger Carswell, and he was mentioning the impact of some of those tracks and how he's already written the leaflet for whenever in the Lord's timing, you know, the king. Well, yeah, I think he probably shouldn't have passed the information on to you really, but yeah, very good.
00:14:15
Speaker
Oh yeah, it was public. Sorry, public. I don't know when that will be aired, but everyone's going to know. Sorry about that. That's been done. Are there any stories? Do you ever get to hear of the outcome of some of the books being put into someone's hands and then a conversation or a change life or through the leaflets? Are there any stories you could share with us that have come about?
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, probably the most famous sort of story of someone who read a tract was converted was, of course, Hudson Taylor, who was saved after he was sort of rummaging through a pile of magazines and leaflets one afternoon, because he was a bit bored, and he discovered a tract and thought, well, this is going to have a story in it, so I better read it, because this was past the time, and that resulted in being saved and converted. But, you know, more sort of
00:15:03
Speaker
every day level, we as a company regularly hear from people who write in having read a tract and or a book and say, oh, could I have the gospel? Or could I find out more? And very often it's one step on someone's journey towards faith in the Lord Jesus. So we do have pretty regular contact with people who are writing in and wanting to know more in the back of reading literature.
00:15:31
Speaker
In terms of getting written materials, whether it's tracts or full books into the hands of non-Christian people, you often don't see Christian books in high street or secular bookshops. I'm sure that in every town, though, there are people who are spiritually seeking. But if they go to a bookshop, there's very often nothing there that's going to give them a clear presentation of the gospel. You might get some wooly spirituality or a whole lot of nonsense all mixed together. So how do we get
00:15:56
Speaker
as a church together with you, books that are rolling off your printing presses and into your warehouse out there because the normal channels to market often don't work for Christian books. So there's clearly a challenge there for us. How do we go about that? Does the church have to be the distributor, retailer, advertiser and delivery mechanism? Or are there other ways that we can get the truth out there?
00:16:18
Speaker
and into people's hands? I think it depends on the type of resource maybe that you want to use. It depends on who you are as an individual and the type of opportunities you may have. But I think there's probably a kind of a sweet spot depending on who you are and the type of thing you're trying to do within that. Let me just give a few ideas of ways I know people do do it. And I'll start with the smaller end and I'll go to the bigger end if I can go that way. So the smaller end
00:16:45
Speaker
you know, tracks and talking about tracks, you know, lots of ways of using those. And really, they can be the key to opening up a conversation with someone. So you might want to tell someone about the Lord Jesus, but you're not quite sure how you might do that. You might say something like, hey, would you like just like this short Christian leaflet that tells you a little bit more about
00:17:02
Speaker
about what I believe or what it means to be a believer. But they're also a great way, a great key for closing off a conversation. Maybe you have been sharing your faith with someone and you want to say something like, oh, could I just leave you this small Christian leaflet that just explains a little bit more about what we've been chatting about.
00:17:22
Speaker
I don't know, just to quote Roger Carswell again, he's somebody who says he loves to use and lose traps. So he sort of leaves them on the bus or the train or he puts them in books and secondhand book shops or in the library, that sort of thing. And he often quotes Ecclesiastes 11, I think, which says, so you'll see it in the morning and that evening let your hands not be idle for
Strategies for Church Book Distribution
00:17:45
Speaker
you. Do not know which will succeed, whether this or that.
00:17:51
Speaker
and the Lord will do the rest. So that's certainly one way. There's more intentional ways, of course. So one brilliant resource that we produce twice a year is a general interest magazine called Life magazine. It's full of testimonies and gospel stories, but also recipes and puzzles and things that lots of people would enjoy reading. And there are lots of churches who buy
00:18:18
Speaker
a few hundred copies of that magazine and they will they will do a big postcode drop in their area and so we have facilities for getting a magazine into every single house through the Royal Mail delivered to a particular post
00:18:33
Speaker
code and churches will print their details on the back and maybe add in some details about some services that are coming up. That's another way that churches do it. When it comes to books, you're right, Gavin, people will buy in bulk, maybe 100 copies at a time and they'll use them during a service or particularly during a season, so Easter or Christmas.
00:18:53
Speaker
good example in churches might put a book on every person's chair at a carol service or or give them on the way out. Students, universities use them a lot in lunch bars and mission weeks and again you know our desire
00:19:07
Speaker
accessible as possible and so we want to make sure our books are affordably priced so that even your impoverished student can buy a handful and give them to their friends or talk. So yeah that's a few ways, I hope that gives some people some ideas to people.
00:19:25
Speaker
Thank you very much, Jonathan, it does. Gosh, 20 minutes has nearly gone by.
Conclusion and Resource Information
00:19:30
Speaker
As we come into land, if any of our listeners wanted to get their hands on any of the resources that you've just mentioned, where should they go?
00:19:38
Speaker
tenofthose.com. That's our website. And it's full of lots of great resources, not just from us, but from other publishers as well. We're keen to get the best of the best out there. So, yeah. And let me just take this moment to mention Gavin's book again. Have you ever wondered, it's a great, great introduction to the Christian faith, and I'd encourage listeners to go and seek it out.
00:20:05
Speaker
Brilliant. Well, Jonathan, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been great to hear about the essential work of books in the Christian life and in the communication of Christ. I thank you ever so much. Thank you, Gavin. Thank you. And Gavin, it's great to be with you this time as well. Thanks so, so much. And listeners, thanks so much for tuning in. We look forward to being with you however you get your podcasts in the next couple of weeks or so with our next guest. Thank you and take care.