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Identifying and Applying Transferable Skills – a conversation with Mike Lawrence
13 Plays18 days ago
Looking back on a career and identifying the transferable skills that created long-term career success
Mike Lawrence is a well-being and workplace management consultant who is on a mission to help people build resilience, prevent burnout and build successful careers and lives.
He has established Mike Lawrence CIC, to reduce inequalities in mental health and wellbeing support for underserved individuals and communities.
In this episode of The Independent Minds Mike and host Michael Millward review his career from his first job as a Butlins Red Coat to roles in retail and IT to now running a community interest company focused on well-being.
Mike explains how the experience of different industries and the skills he has learnt prepared him for his current role and equipped him to develop his unique approach to well- being and coaching.
More information about Mike Lawrence and Michael Millward is available at abeceder.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Independent Minds' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abyssaida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abusida.
Exploring Transferable Skills with Mike Lawrence
00:00:27
Speaker
Today, I'm going to be learning about application of transferable skills from Mike Lawrence, who is a business and executive coach.
00:00:38
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast production process so easy.
Podcast Promotion and Discounts
00:00:54
Speaker
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward s slash pricing and use my offer code, Abbasida. All the details are in the description.
00:01:06
Speaker
Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencaster is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:17
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Mike Lawrence's Career Journey
00:01:25
Speaker
Today, my guest, Independent Mind, is Mike Lawrence.
00:01:29
Speaker
Mike is a business and executive coach who's based in Sheffield. Sheffield is in South Yorkshire, and I'm talking to you from West Yorkshire, so we're very close.
00:01:39
Speaker
We're using the internet to record this episode of The Independent Minds. If we'd got on the bus, we could have met up. But if we were going to get together, we'd make our travel arrangements at the Ultimate Travel Club because that is where we get trade prices on travel, including at flights, hotels, trains, holidays, and so many other travel-related purchases. You can do the same if you become a member of the Ultimate Travel Club using the discounted code in the link in the description.
00:02:07
Speaker
Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of the independent minds and say, hello, Mike. Hello, Michael. Ah, you see, that's how people are going to tell the difference between us, right?
00:02:21
Speaker
you're a mike yes indeed yeah and i'm a michael so there's no confusion here whatsoever got you michael you're also the first red coat or former red coat that i have ever spoken to so i'm interested to find out what life is like as a red coat but can we start by you please telling us a little bit about your career and how you ended up as ah as a coach It's been a varied journey, and being a coach. Started off life many moons ago ah as a as a Red Goat lifeguard at Butlins.
00:02:57
Speaker
on On that journey, um practiced and trained and I've been extremely intrigued around sports. alternative therapies, comp complementary therapies, and things which improve your life.
Integrating Well-being into Career
00:03:12
Speaker
But, you know, starting off many years ago in in London, and you mentioned them, South Yorkshire, you're West Yorkshire, made that um very lonely trip down Butlins.
00:03:24
Speaker
And then for many years, I started, you know, I worked in London in various managerial roles in the leisure industry. You started off as a lifeguard redcoat. I had to think about Heidi High and you were the guy being pushed into the pool, although I suspect people weren't being put really pushed into pools, but it's that type of lifestyle. It's full on for the whole summer long.
00:03:45
Speaker
Indeed, yes. And ah think that so many people like yourself and many others think, yeah, it's the Heidi High, because we had at the time those programs on TV have called Heidi High, and those are the ones there as well.
00:04:00
Speaker
Partly there was that, but there's some other there aspects of stuff as well, which is really really enjoyable. and which you alluded to also in terms of those transferable skills and also get lifestyle skills that I learned there as well.
00:04:15
Speaker
After that time that you spent as a Redcoat, you then end up in London in the leisure industry as well. And you're working your way through building a career, I suppose. Indeed, yes. Absolutely.
00:04:26
Speaker
for whatever reason, I don't know why I wanted to be a manager, maybe because of the, you know, the money and the opportunities and that they had in those days. And so um initially was in the um leisure industry and also then transitioned into doing sort of sales, sales and marketing, spent many of time and then,
00:04:49
Speaker
Spent a lot of time in IT, but my passion had always been around well-being, even though I'd been working for many years in the IT industry, in the leisure industry, and senior and managerial roles and positions. But my passion just seemed to be around well-being.
00:05:06
Speaker
supporting, helping people and and well-being. I'm part of the managerial training. went to university and I studied and in a postgraduate on sort of management, learning how to, ah dare I say, manage people. When your interest in well-being started, it probably wasn't called well-being. No.
00:05:25
Speaker
I don't want to age anyone here. But it's a fairly new terminology. There's lots of different aspects of it. And what you've been talking about is the the therapy side of well-being as well as the coaching side of well-being. So the physical therapy, the talking therapies, which is almost like a coaching aspect to it.
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know where the term well-being came from. Actually, no, it's the first time I've been asked around that. But yeah, it was more around the...
Unique Coaching Approaches
00:05:56
Speaker
the talking therapies life coaching and also an interest and passion in the hands-on sort of therapies things such as like reiki and general sort of massage but anatomy and physiology and sort of the way in which um the Chinese help and support people is just where my journey taken took me people that I learnt on my journey and things that you seem to or I seem to just allude to at the time and it just made sense and I enjoyed it there's a very brief description you've given us there but actually what you're talking about is it's unique
00:06:33
Speaker
Because most coaches would be talking about, well, let's sit down, work out what it is what it is you want to do, where you are, and then we'll talk about it and I'll hold you accountable for that you not meeting your objectives or celebrate you meeting your objectives.
00:06:48
Speaker
I'm going to get in trouble with coaches for... that sort of description, but that's that just so like a brief synopsis of the coaching process, isn't it? We work out what it is you want to do, we work out where you are at the moment, what's holding you back, what's helping you, and then we work together to get you to where you want to be, or closer to where you want to be.
00:07:08
Speaker
But what you're doing as a coach is looking at both the physical and the psychological and using the massage, the Reiki, as part of that coaching process.
00:07:20
Speaker
Indeed. Because, yeah, you're getting trouble also sometimes with the coaching fraternity because, as you mentioned, Dan, I think it was a grow model. That was a starting point there.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, that was just, I think that was the starting point at the time I was working in London and learning about coaching, learning sort of management. And I suppose maybe spent time as ah as as a red coat, part of maybe ah part of those transferable skills. It was a case of, for me, just didn't feel natural, the traditional way of ah helping and supporting people was great and was a great starting point for me and give me those building blocks and that sort of that toolkit as a starting point.
00:08:06
Speaker
But when I started to look at the Chinese anatomy and physiology, started going into the nutrition and looking at the whole person, looking at the whole person um was able then to, some you weren't able to help and support somebody through the talking therapies,
00:08:25
Speaker
There was other ways that you could help and support people through and then um through and so in the physical or the spiritual. And so when I was able then to bring this, yeah bring it all together, it was like, wow, this is this is exciting. and This is good. I like it. And it was working as well. you can imagine that one of big challenges in any coaching situation is getting someone from the point where They think, yeah, I need coaching. i would benefit from having a coach.
00:08:54
Speaker
And then getting them from that point to the point where they're actually opening up enough about themselves in order to benefit from the coaching process. If you can't sit there and talk about yourself in an analytical, self-critical way, you're not going to benefit from the coaching process.
00:09:16
Speaker
But if you add in, and this is just my... So summation, having been through coaching processes and also had massages, that when you've had the massage, you are so relaxed that you do feel more comfortable having
Synergy of Physical and Psychological Coaching
00:09:33
Speaker
conversations. I'm remembering being um upgraded on British Airways for a flight across the Atlantic from New York and being in the lounge and realizing that they'd got a spa in the lounge at British Airways in a JFK Airport. So I had time enough. I thought I'll have a massage.
00:09:54
Speaker
And I don't know how long it lasted, but I went in sort of like, I've just got off one plane. I'm getting on another plane. I've got all these things to do Make sure you don't leave your passport in the toilet. Those sorts of things are going through my head.
00:10:09
Speaker
But when I came out of that massage, I floated through that terminal, was escorted to my seat. Cabin crew said, here's your seat, sit down, put your safety belt on. Next thing I knew, i was we were arriving in London and it was down to them the massage made me so relaxed.
00:10:26
Speaker
And I imagine that it's the same sort of thing when you're in that coaching environment and the right person. For the right person in the right situation, the combination of the physical and the psychological probably works extremely well.
00:10:38
Speaker
How nice to have that massage on the plane. I have to say. Oh, brilliant. and but Also, through a combination of these different modalities that I use, I could give people, even though they're not on that flight, but through using talking therapies, really hypnotherapy, you could imagine that they're actually there.
00:10:58
Speaker
And then whilst they're on the couch, be able to um go deep into the various points on the body, and which might be in pain physically or there might be certain blockages.
00:11:11
Speaker
But then by being able then to embed that and go even deeper by talk over that, like you've just done there in terms of talk through what's going on. So you're not only getting the, the only, not only getting the physical, you're getting the mental and spiritual there as well.
00:11:26
Speaker
And it was somebody who taught me elements of doing this and they tricked me because they were in lots of pain and he was teaching me hypnotherapy, but they're in lots of pain. And, um,
00:11:38
Speaker
As I was doing my hands on, he said, well, why don't you, whilst you're saying, working on my arm or elbow or wrist or something, why don't you overlay that with talking therapist telling me what I'm doing, but do it in a way which is, you know, as a guided meditation.
00:11:56
Speaker
And I said, no, no, you're combining. you that dust and You can't do that. I wasn't taught how to do it. No, no, just trust me and do it. And he tricked me into doing it. And after that first session, you know, he was just, you could see he was just, it was just 10 times deeper and he was just blown away. And I was blown away as well.
00:12:14
Speaker
Obviously, you've got to work on both parts. It becomes multiplier of the individual parts. It's greater than the sum of its parts when you combine the two together. Yeah. It was difficult at first because, you know, to take your concentration from just talking, you know, doing the physical and then go into your mind and find the words and to talk through where those challenging problems are. um The mind or the person that you're working with might be able to fight and resist and the physical, but then by overlaying it with the talking side of things, it then relaxes and calms and releases that area or vice versa.
Breaking Mental Barriers in Coaching
00:12:53
Speaker
So even though someone can say that they want to benefit from a coaching program, ah huh they can actually really be subconsciously, I suppose it is, resistant to that. yeah But the physical part of it as well helps to break down those barriers.
00:13:11
Speaker
Indeed, because, you know, the mind will ease primarily to to look after that individual, that person. And therefore, when you come along and the mind is already shut down, it's like, whatever, you've tried something beforehand, it doesn't work.
00:13:26
Speaker
You know, we we've been there beforehand, as say, it puts the barriers up. So therefore, you can play a game with it and trick it, you know, by starting somewhere else. And then before you're then calming down the body, calming down the mind,
00:13:39
Speaker
So it's okay, it's nice, it's all right, it works. You know, that's good, it's not, you know, I've not tried this before or not had this before. so it brings down its barrier. And then before you and you you go and there'll be a sucker punch, yeah, I've got you now.
00:13:54
Speaker
Because I suppose for many people, they make the decision that they're going to go into a coaching environment and other people will be told they're going to go into a coaching environment. yeah When people are told, yeah, we're going on a family holiday and we're going to go to Butlins, I suppose as a redcoat, you would have exactly had that sort of situation with some families, with some people, where they'd been told that they were going to be there or they're of an age where they don't really get that much of a choice.
00:14:24
Speaker
And then it's like, how are you going to fill your day? And there yeah you've got exactly that same type of situation of getting people to overcome their reluctance to get involved in any type of activity for what they might think about themselves or what other people might think about them and get them involved in things which they will ultimately enjoy, but then they don't really believe they are actually going to enjoy.
00:14:49
Speaker
absolutely and a huge part of our role was you know we'm breaking that barrier and and encouraging people to enjoy themselves because people as you mentioned they were coming for different reasons you might have the you know and people who are retired um who have got no family or friends, but by coming to, you know, Bucklings at the time, you've got 5,000 people there and you're making, you know, lots of different family and you know and friends. You've got people from,
00:15:21
Speaker
you know, a number of various different types of um um disabilities and ailments. And part of our role was to get them either on the dance floor, interject with, make sure that they feel loved, make sure they feel part of the family, ensure that they feel part of the community and get them in you know involved.
00:15:42
Speaker
And do you know something? There was no training for this. There were no qualifications. How did they select you then? and did they How did they identify I mean, how did they identify that this was something that you could do if there was no actual training for doing it?
00:15:59
Speaker
Because at the same sort of time, imagine there's lots of young people who have got themselves a job as a redcoat. yeah It's a great place to start your career. And there's lots of big stars who started as redcoats in Bob Monkhouse and people like that. yeah and But the actual in standing up on stage is one thing, yeah but actually the interaction with the people who are your audience and you know overcoming that reluctance that we all have to speak to strangers and take someone who's nervous, isolated, because you say...
00:16:33
Speaker
There's 5,000 people, but if you're there by yourself, it can be extremely lonely to be the on your own in a crowd. yeah And yet you're the person with the red coat on that they're going to look to, to open up that world for them.
00:16:49
Speaker
yeah And yet you've not got any training about it. What was it about you that meant that Butlin's thought, yeah, this guy can
Developing People Skills at Butlins
00:16:58
Speaker
do this? Yeah. There's a couple of things. suppose One, um i was say i was a trained lifeguard because I wanted somebody at the time who was able to yeah and look after people in these swimming pools and um during the day probably also and this was mentioned to me i wasn't wearing my smile oh yeah yeah and just being approachable right yeah ah so there is the hard skill of being a well qualified lifeguard so i suppose as well as your red coat you get your red shorts as well
00:17:34
Speaker
oh Oh, there was a white shorts. I think you had to bring them. You had to bring your own white socks. Right. And you had a red vest in the daytime with Billy Butlins on the front. On the front. Yeah. And then in the evening, you had nice red coat, Dickie Bow tie, white shirt. And in the daytime, was a yellow and blue sort of tie. Right.
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah. But everything else that you've talked about are all soft skills for which you you can't really pass an exam for those. And having a smile, being able to smile in a situation, I suppose, if going for an interview and or an audition or some sort of assessment and you're smiling, then smiles are, um,
00:18:24
Speaker
do make people more approachable, do make people more personable, more just the the sort of person that people feel more comfortable around is is someone with a smile.
00:18:37
Speaker
It is. um it's not innocent and And it's a natural one. It's not sort of put on. But I think that goes to, you know, because you look at when I come now to, because every time you meet somebody, because you're speaking to people constantly all the time as a red coat, when you're walking from A to B, wherever you are, whatever you're doing,
00:19:00
Speaker
There were some very strict rules. You had to greet meet and greet people. There was also something called swanning, whereby, you know, first thing in the morning, you wake up first thing in the morning and you'd be on show in the in the restaurants.
00:19:18
Speaker
and they'd be there, good morning, good morning, good morning, so everyone is coming through, good morning, here you are, da-da-da, and then you'd sit down the with some of the the guests and throughout the morning as well before you start your before you sort of start the you know the day.
00:19:32
Speaker
And so you're constantly, and if you weren't smiling or if you're caught not smiling or meeting and greeting people throughout the day, you'd be in trouble and you'd get called out by the management team.
00:19:45
Speaker
And if I flip this forward now to this work that I do with people, as you probably know yourself, people, it's all about that know, like and trust.
Building Trust in Client Relationships
00:19:55
Speaker
And people who I work with or people that make with yourself, first and foremost, they do I like you?
00:20:02
Speaker
and that works yeah and that worked And that's two ways. And so how how do you look? Do you look trustworthy, which is a big thing? Will it work for me? And, you know, because it's you've seen all the testimonials and that some people have.
00:20:17
Speaker
And then said, you know, will it work? and whatever you are providing in the service you're providing and then also will it work for me and if they know like and trust yes you come across really well and you're approachable and you smile because it's you know is it harder to smile there's more muscles um you know to frown and smile or is it the way around i'm not too sure No, it's more muscles to frown. Then it than takes more muscles to frown than it does take to smile.
00:20:49
Speaker
That's right. But I think what you're what you're so saying is the skills that you learnt there ah Butlins about greeting people, making their day start off well, And understanding the impact that that has on someone's day, you then transfer into a situation where you're self-employed and your business is reliant upon you building likeability, knowledge and trust with your potential clients.
00:21:18
Speaker
That openness that comes at the beginning of that relationship
00:21:24
Speaker
means that people will feel more comfortable actually opening up to you earlier. yes it and and Yes, it does. And initially, I didn't know why.
00:21:37
Speaker
um Because you people, um the many clients that I've worked with over the over the years will say to me, i didn't realize I've just said that.
00:21:48
Speaker
I haven't told my partner. My mom doesn't even know that. And yeah, because I'm able to go deep and do it quite quickly. You go back to that, whichs when we started off um this conversation around the typical model,
00:22:07
Speaker
The typical model for me wouldn't enable me too go as deep as that, to go there as quickly, to be able to get those quicker results, just sustainable over a long period of time.
00:22:21
Speaker
Because over those years, I've worked with people who have got that suicidal ideation, people that have been molested, people that have been abused. um s So many different areas. And when people come to me,
00:22:36
Speaker
And they ask me, can I help them? A lot of times I'll just say straight away, yes, course I can. And then they'll ask me, how am I going to get there? And I'm brutally honest with them, and I say, I don't know.
00:22:50
Speaker
just sort of don't but I know I've got a system and a model. It shifts, it bends based upon, you know, they re how they react and how open they are.
00:23:04
Speaker
But I will say, I don't know how I'll get there, but I know I will. If we if you stick with me, we work together through this problem solution, we will get there and also do the homework that I sent them as well.
00:23:18
Speaker
What he's talking about is a system which helps people to get to where they need to be.
Adapting Coaching to Client Needs
00:23:25
Speaker
flexible system which had works around them. But the effectiveness of the system, you can track back to the skills that you learnt as a redcoat and as a lifeguard to get to to help people get to the the cause, the root cause of the issues that they're dealing with.
00:23:45
Speaker
and the most likely ways in which they're going to resolve those issues. Indeed. As a lifeguard, you're, what is it, the road, toe, that there's a number of different things that so you are taught.
00:23:59
Speaker
And so many times you'd be stood there on the side of the pool, And you'll see your colleague diveing insight you know diving into the pool to go and set somebody.
00:24:10
Speaker
Whereas the easiest thing to do to either scream or shout or blow your whistle. And you say to somebody nearby, can you just hold on to that person and bring them to the side?
00:24:23
Speaker
Delegation. That's called delegation. Yeah. Yeah, and I've even seen, don't know if you've done many at school, probably at school, you all did it when we were younger, where you would have to bring in some pyjamas and some night clothing to school, and you'd swim maybe, I don't know, 10, not 10.
00:24:47
Speaker
The survival test, the swimming in your pyjamas, the surface dive, lift the brick up off the floor. That's the one. I remember it well. Yeah, com remember it well, ah I heard about somebody who dived in, started doing maybe two or three lens, and there was somebody that was actually going under in the pool, but they're being conditioned to do these lens before they go down, pick up a mannequin in the brick and come to the side.
00:25:18
Speaker
And somebody actually did this. And there's somebody in the pool, yeah, help, help, help. No, i need to do these lenss. the That I've been trained to do.
00:25:28
Speaker
Yeah, that I've been trained to do. The transpirability of skills didn't work for them then in that situation. No. it It's like learning the learning something, yeah identifying what you've learned and being able to apply it in a different situation in a way that other people will understand is what you're actually talking about, isn't Indeed, absolutely. Yeah, you' got it.
00:25:53
Speaker
And it seems so straightforward, really, that you are in a role which means that you have to talk to people who may be alone, may be disabled, may be feeling very alien, and you've got to integrate them into a group of 5,000 people who may not or may or may not want to have those people integrated into their holiday.
00:26:15
Speaker
So it's it's managing all sorts of different relationships and emotions and requirements that people have. And then transfer that into the situation that you've described where those skills enable you to get someone to feel more comfortable with you as an individual, more comfortable with the coaching environment and get them to go through that process at a pace which is is quicker than it might be, but is still, i suppose, within the speed that they want to move at.
00:26:51
Speaker
Yes. and And that's the key thing. Yes, there is a framework and structure, um but can but you're going at a yeah matching you know where they are they that's you know where where they are. You're meeting them where they are.
00:27:07
Speaker
yeah And in that onboarding process, says we can go as fast or slow as you need to you know as you need to be. Right. It's great. It's really interesting. And I think we'll have to explore it some more.
Conclusion and Health Test Promotion
00:27:20
Speaker
But for today, Mike, it's been really interesting. And I do thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you, Michael. Really enjoyed it. i Appreciate it. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abucida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Mike Lawrence, a business and executive coach.
00:27:41
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abucida.co.uk. At the independent minds, our aim is proactive positive aging. Knowing the risks early is an important part of maintaining good health.
00:27:52
Speaker
That is why we recommend the health tests available from York Test, and especially the annual health test. The annual health test from York Test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol, diabetes, various vitamin levels, and also a range of organ functions.
00:28:13
Speaker
The annual health test is conducted by an experienced lobotomist who will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests are carried out in a UKAS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory.
00:28:27
Speaker
You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime by your secure personal wellness hub account. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:28:40
Speaker
I'm sure you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Mike and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like, download it so you can remember you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:28:52
Speaker
And to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:29:04
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.