Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Sales: the Job Nobody Dreams of – a conversation with the author Bill Becker
8 Plays6 hours ago
Inside the greatest career you didn't know about that can help you fulfil your lifestyle aspirations like no other career.
Bill Becker is a career sales person who advocates for the professionalisation of careers in sales.
In this episode of The Independent Minds Bill explains to host Michael Millward how misunderstandings about the role of sales leads to negative perceptions of sales people amongst none sales people (customers).
Bill explains what makes a sales person a professional and how following that approach makes happy customers and successful sales people.
You will leave this episode with a wider understanding of the sales profession and how to be sold to.
More information about Bill Becker and Michael Millward is available at abeceder.
Audience Offers
Audience Offers – listings include links that may create a small commission for The Independent Minds
Buy The Job Nobody Dreams of on Amazon
The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr, because as the all-in-one podcasting platform, Zencastr really does make creating content so easy.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr visit zencastr.com/pricing and use our offer code ABECEDER.
Travel
With discounted membership of the Ultimate Travel Club, you can travel anywhere at trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, and many more travel related purchases.
Fit For Work We recommend The Annual Health Test from York Test; a 39-health marker Annual Health Test conducted by an experienced phlebotomist with hospital standard tests carried out in a UKAS-accredited and CQC-compliant laboratory.
A secure Personal Wellness Hub provides easy-to-understand results and lifestyle guidance
Visit York Test and use this discount code MIND25.
Visit Three for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote my referral code WPFNUQHU.
Being a Guest
We recommend the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre.
We use Matchmaker.fm to connect with potential guests If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests or if you have something interesting to say Matchmaker.fm is where great guests and great hosts are matched and great podcasts are hatched. Use our offer code MILW10 for a discount on membership.
We appreciate every like, download, and subscriber.
Thank you for listening.
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr.
Introduction to 'Independent Minds' Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abyssaida and people who think outside the box about how work works with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for every everyone.
00:00:22
Speaker
I am your host, Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abbasida.
Introducing Bill Becker: Advocate for Sales Professionalism
00:00:27
Speaker
Today, my guest independent mind is Bill Becker, who is an advocate for the professionalization of sales careers.
00:00:37
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, the independent minds is made on Zencastr, the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platform.
Podcast Promotion and Offers
00:00:52
Speaker
Zencastr really does make making content so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abysida.
00:01:08
Speaker
All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:22
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we don't tell you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Bill Becker's Journey in Sales
00:01:31
Speaker
Today, my guest independent mind who I met at matchmaker.fm is Bill Becker, who is an advocate for the professionalization of sales careers and making sales careers open to everyone.
00:01:47
Speaker
Bill is based in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a place I have never visited. If I do visit, I will be sure to plan my travel with the Ultimate Travel Club, as that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, and holidays, and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:02:07
Speaker
There is a link and a membership discount code in the description. Now that I've paid the rent, It's time to say hello, Bill. Michael, how are you? i am extremely well, thank you very much, and I hope that you can say the same. I am, thanks.
00:02:22
Speaker
Please could we start with you giving us a short introduction to you, your experience, and what prompted you to start your sales training business. And maybe tell us what your sales training business is called, please, as well.
00:02:33
Speaker
Sure, thank you. I am a retired salesperson. One of the things I wanted to do when I retired was de-evangelize about sales careers. And that started with, I wrote a book called The Job Nobody Dreams Of because no one grows up wanting to be a salesperson.
00:02:51
Speaker
When I'm out there evangelizing about careers, talking about the the myths that people have of salespeople and sales careers and how anyone can get a sales job, even if a company is not hiring salespeople at the time.
00:03:06
Speaker
That's an interesting point. Anyone can get a job in sales, even if the company isn't hiring salespeople at the
Debunking Sales Myths and Emphasizing Professionalism
00:03:13
Speaker
time. It's one of the coolest things I think about sales careers, because that's like the only job like that you can make that statement. I did it several times throughout my career.
00:03:23
Speaker
so what type of sales jobs were you getting when nobody was hiring salespeople? First half of my career, i was in radio sales. So I sold radio advertising.
00:03:34
Speaker
And I started out like everybody else, did the car dealers, the furniture stores, restaurants. Then I went into some unique things. It's called non-traditional revenue. So dealing with packaged good manufacturers, help wanted ads on the radio.
00:03:50
Speaker
The second half of my career, went into IT t sales. Have you always been a salesperson? was. And now you've retired from sales and are helping other people be more successful in sales.
00:04:01
Speaker
And the book that you wrote is The Career Nobody Dreams Of. Right. The Job Nobody Dreams Of inside the the job no one ever thought about. The genesis of that idea came right after nine eleven here in the U.S. that I got a contract to train all these people who had been laid off.
00:04:19
Speaker
And I started thinking, it's like, you know who they didn't lay off? The salespeople. And I started thinking, you know well, you know what? Everyone that's in sales grew up wanting to do something else. I told you, you know what I did, everybody else.
00:04:31
Speaker
So it's like, it truly is the job nobody dreams of. I thought I, at some point I want to shout the word out about this more. it is the greatest career. It deserves more respect and it can change lives.
00:04:43
Speaker
When you say nobody dreams of a job in sales, is part of the reason for that, that salespeople don't really have a good reputation? yeah Yep, you're absolutely right. it is the what people think of.
00:04:57
Speaker
It's the high pressure used car salesman. And they're thinking that you're using these tricks to get you to buy something you don't need. There's movies like Wall Street or Boiler Room that that give people that kind of like, oh, that's what it's all about.
00:05:13
Speaker
There are jobs out there like that, but what I talk about are professional sales jobs that are nothing like that. The other reason that people have bad view of sales is it's often treated as the career of last resort.
00:05:28
Speaker
And I'll give you a great example. When I first started looking into how I wanted to promote this, that I started interviewing salespeople. And just as a student of the The craft, right?
00:05:40
Speaker
You come across another salesperson, you share ideas. And so I interviewed this kid, early 20s, making six figures, selling cars. And then a few months later, i was out buying a vehicle for my family.
00:05:54
Speaker
And this gentleman was probably mid forties, really nicely dressed. And he was basically apologizing for being a car salesman. He goes, yeah, he goes, I'm just doing this till something better comes along.
00:06:05
Speaker
This is going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy for you because there's a kid across town making six figures and you're just here hanging on, hoping something better will come along.
00:06:16
Speaker
You actually enjoy, I suppose, the process of selling. have a friend who's a salesperson. He sells advertising. And I first met him. He was selling newspaper advertising. Now he's.
00:06:28
Speaker
really top end type of sign. And one of the things that he told me about it was that he likes the idea that it's, there's a quick turnaround. He knows from the the effort that he puts in, he can see the result very quickly.
00:06:43
Speaker
Someone is going to buy something and he puts in more effort and then somebody else buys something. And he can see the result of his work very quickly because someone else makes a decision based upon what he is doing. That's absolutely correct. And
Building Trust and Relationships in Sales
00:06:59
Speaker
whether it's quick or not, you know, depends on what you're selling. Advertising, yes, the the sales cycle is going to be much shorter than what I sold was IT services that were months, if not almost two years.
00:07:12
Speaker
Yes. we We do it for the money, but there's an added bonus, the feeling when someone says yes, that like, hey, I believe in you. And then that's the big thing.
00:07:23
Speaker
It doesn't matter what you're selling. They're actually buying you. You should lead with, you know, why why should I do business with you? It's because you should do business with Bill Becker. One of the reasons you do business with Bill Becker happens to be the company I represent.
00:07:37
Speaker
Because in the end, regardless whether you're buying advertising, IT services, cars, whatever, people are buying peace of mind. It's even more important when I'm talking about with professional sales where it's business to business. Because if if you buy the wrong TV, you're out a few hundred dollars, couple thousand dollars. If you're a TV junkie like me, you buy the wrong grill, no big deal.
00:08:01
Speaker
You make the wrong decision for your business. You made a million dollar mistake. could cost you your job. yeah the The myth that people don't want to talk to salespeople is is that it's a myth. they They're going to do their research.
00:08:15
Speaker
Thank you, internet. That's good. because you're going to have better educated buyers. But in the end, they need a human being to give them the peace of mind that they're doing the right thing.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yes. No one ever got fired for buying one particular computer company. I know that was one of things that we say, we won't mention them at the moment here, but I'm going to pick you up on a few of the things that you said. One of the things you said was that salespeople do it for the money. Everybody works for the money. Right.
00:08:42
Speaker
Otherwise we'd be volunteering. But this thing that salespeople only do it for the money, I'm going to pull you up on because In my career, I had a great time being the HR manager for the sales and marketing department of a technology company.
00:08:59
Speaker
Shortly after I started in that job, the vice president of sales called me into his office and he said, Michael, we're about to start doing some recruitment. Tell me about the people that we're looking to recruit.
00:09:12
Speaker
This is one of those questions, no matter what I say, is going to find fault with. So why doesn't he just tell me? And he said, people can do all sorts of jobs and earn lots of money.
00:09:22
Speaker
That's fine. But I don't want a salesperson who's only in it for the money because people are only in it for the money will do things for the money. What I want is someone who has a purpose for wanting to earn lots of money.
00:09:37
Speaker
So find me people with expensive hobbies. And that was what he wanted. He wanted salespeople who had expensive hobbies. So they would always have a release, get away from work, do something different.
00:09:50
Speaker
They'd have something that they could talk about amongst themselves, talk about with clients, but they had a reason for wanting to earn lots of money. So we had people who were hot air balloonists. There's probably a posh word for that.
00:10:02
Speaker
ah people who collected cars, people with um art collections, gun dogs, all sorts of various different things, sailing boats, all
Opportunities in Sales for Everyone
00:10:11
Speaker
sorts of things. But they all had a reason for wanting to earn lots of money.
00:10:17
Speaker
So I said to well, what's your hobby then? What's your expensive hobby? He said, two ex-wives. And it was brilliant have conversations with salespeople about them rather than the targets that they'd achieved. Bingo.
00:10:30
Speaker
Your VP of sales was on to something because I'm going to flip it just a little bit, but he's absolutely right. When I say we do it for the money, it doesn't necessarily mean that we're doing it for gobs of money and that's okay too.
00:10:45
Speaker
I loved the the ability to make a ton of money selling IT services, but i I wasn't a nerd. There's a lot I didn't understand, but that's why we had sales engineers.
00:10:56
Speaker
But you're talking about the why. When I'm talking about evangelizing about sales careers today, it's the same thing, but a little different. And what I mean is that sales careers can save people's lives in a sense.
00:11:14
Speaker
When you get in front of someone who can say yes. and And so this is the gist. Here's the secret sauce of getting a job, even if someone's not hiring, is you get in front of someone who can say yes, VP of sales, a sales manager, director sales, or whatever, and you don't have any sales experience. It's like, you know what, Michael, this is what's going on in my life.
00:11:35
Speaker
I've made some mistakes. I missed out on some opportunities I regret. What I'm doing right now, I don't see is a very good future for me or my family. I have figured out that the future I want and my family deserves is helping you sell your stuff. And all you need is one person to sit there going, holy moly, I just hit the lottery.
00:11:56
Speaker
I can teach this person whatever product knowledge they don't know, but they have the motivation to go out and be successful. And when times get tough, when they hear no, whatever, they they're motivated Because they want to do something for their family. So the same thing, what you're talking about, someone wants to buy ah a hot air balloon or a nice boat.
00:12:16
Speaker
Yes. When I'm talking today about people who are either unemployed or underemployed, sales is a great equalizer. It's the career that can give you whatever you want in life. Yeah. as long
Essential Skills for Sales Success
00:12:27
Speaker
as you're prepared to put the work in and you learn your craft.
00:12:30
Speaker
You have to produce. Absolutely. When you talk about learn the craft, people think, oh, I got to be pushy, got to be, you know, super personable. Could put me in the the personal category, although some of it is, you know, being on.
00:12:45
Speaker
There's introverts that do really well in sales. So when I retired from the company I retired from, I was a top salesperson. The person right below me who now is a top salesperson killing it.
00:12:56
Speaker
He was a project manager before he got into sales. He loves his spreadsheets and his slides. It is a badge of honor in my career. I never made one PowerPoint slide in my life.
00:13:10
Speaker
And so the idea is with sales, you know what, you're just having a conversation. I tell people, he's like, you know what? I never convinced anyone they needed my IT service.
00:13:22
Speaker
We had a platform that was used to design, develop, and deliver hands-on labs for software training. So my my clients were software companies. Not not once convinced them that they needed to do this.
00:13:34
Speaker
Instead, and went out and found people who've already made the decisions, like, you know what? We need hands-on labs for our training. And then I showed them why i was the best choice. Again, why Bill Becker was the best choice.
00:13:46
Speaker
One of the reasons was because of the company I represented. From what you're saying, anyone could be a salesperson if they wanted to be, and if they had a reason to be, if it was the career for them because it enabled them to achieve a lifestyle aspiration. Absolutely.
00:14:03
Speaker
They should not be thinking, oh, my perception of salespeople is that they are like this and I'm not like that, so I can't be a salesperson. salespeople come in all different shapes and sizes, all different types of personalities.
00:14:16
Speaker
From what you're saying, I'm thinking like you just got to find the right organization for you to be a salesperson. there It makes a huge difference, Michael. It does. that And then there's a lot of conversation about that today. that and Those are some of the things you think about when you think, okay, well, I'm thinking about sales.
00:14:33
Speaker
You want to work for a smaller organization where you have you know some maybe some more flexibility on how you do things or do you want to work for a super large organization who are a pretty rigid but have that rigidness comes from successful and seeing what doesn't work down the years but uh it's spoiler alert every one of your listeners is in sales already if you went on a job interview but you sold yourself right if you asked someone out on a date yes you were selling yourself
00:15:05
Speaker
That's all sales is. Yes. It's that simple.
The Value of Human Interaction in a Digital Age
00:15:08
Speaker
People buy people. People buy people. Absolutely. And it's the person who gives some gives another person the confidence in the product or the service that they are talking about.
00:15:19
Speaker
And I'm saying the product or service that they're talking about rather than the product or service that they're selling. Yeah, again, it's it's that, you know, they're not buying whatever the features and benefits. It's just whatever, you know, there's always a talk about your You want to find the prospect's pain.
00:15:38
Speaker
You want to find it. It's like sometimes it's the prospect's opportunity. Again, I had a platform to um help with software training for customers. Maybe they were looking for a way to monetize their training where they were just given away. Well, here's a platform that allowed them to do that. So yeah, no one's going to spend money unless there's something that they want to either fix or take advantage of.
00:16:06
Speaker
And the beauty of it is for the most of the time, no one's going to talk to you unless they're in the market, right? So it's not like, oh, I'm going to cold call and you know people are going to set up an appointment and talk to me, but they're not really interested. that That's no, it's, it that's the beauty of it. People that's where the internet really helps is people are going to do their research first.
00:16:31
Speaker
And then at some point they do want to talk to a live person. This is why AI is never going to replace salespeople. They want to talk to a person they have because of their research, they have some really good pointed questions.
00:16:44
Speaker
And that' that's where you're just, you're having a conversation. Yeah. And this is the technique that you've described in your book. yeah It's simply just having a conversation. If you get into, know, they're going to ask me all these technical questions. It's like, even if you don't know, did you say, you say, you know what?
00:17:00
Speaker
I'm not sure, but I'll get back to you by the end of the day. And I'm going to tell you, i talk about this all the time and it blew me away when it first happened. Every single week of my career,
00:17:14
Speaker
I was praised on how fast I responded to an email or a phone call. And at first it's like, that's weird. That's I'm just doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Right.
00:17:24
Speaker
And then it finally dawned on me. It's like, you know what? Not all salespeople do that. So great. This dork that I am could stick out. I actually had a separate folder in my outlook of all these little, you know, emails that said, thank you so much for getting back so quick. And it's just like, they're little trophies, if you will.
00:17:44
Speaker
It's that feedback on what it is that you're doing or like the effort and result. You've done something and someone has acknowledged it. It's peace of mind. Again, it's like if something, and good like especially in IT, t it's not if, but when something breaks, right?
00:18:00
Speaker
Is Bill going to be there? It's like Bill always responds. bill Bill responds in the middle of the night. That's the beauty of salespeople, right? You know, we have we have our work email on our phone. So... How many times I responded to an email sitting on the couch watching a basketball game or um especially if you're dealing with clients other parts of the country. I actually had had a training center in the UK one time and this is when I lived in San Diego and he reached out.
00:18:26
Speaker
I was pretty close with him and i did the math. It's 1 a.m. m there. What are you doing? And he he had this very famous phrase that I'll keep to myself. I don't think it's dirty or other, but it just laughed. And basically he just saying, hey, I got work to do.
00:18:43
Speaker
it It seems so stupid simple, but it's it's just like, hey, this is great. If you respond quickly to people, They will respond back. So many salespeople don't do. And those are the ones that give the industry a bad reputation.
00:18:57
Speaker
You talk in the book about non-traditional revenue streams, but in order to access the non-traditional revenue streams and the traditional ones, you're going to be more successful if you adopt salespeople. a non-traditional approach and are recognizably different to the negative stereotypes that many people have about their interactions with salespeople.
00:19:19
Speaker
I know from talking to people in our marketplace that they don't want to be sold to. So, right, well, we're not going to sell anything to you, but you you asked us for information.
00:19:29
Speaker
So you've asked us for information. here's the information. what does this, you does this answer the question or does it prompt even more questions and how can we help you answer those questions?
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah. Help. Don't sell me, help me buy. Yes. Somebody knows that they have an issue, they have a problem, they have a challenge, whichever word that you want to use, they're looking for a solution for that.
00:19:53
Speaker
The worst thing you can do probably is to sell a solution to people because you can steamroller them into making a decision or get rejected outright because selling is an education process. It really is because, you know, especially when you're talking, and I make the emphasis On professional sale.
00:20:15
Speaker
So whether you're you know you're in manufacturing, medical devices, IT, these are true not you know one meeting sales, right? An example in in my field. So I'm dealing with people who are the decision makers, but at some point during the process, they'll bring in technical people.
00:20:34
Speaker
No problem. I bring in my sales engineers. Also realize that, to um and I didn't realize this early on, but learned from it. is like, hey, you need to have multiple you know threads of conversations going on.
00:20:49
Speaker
When you talk to someone and they seem like they're very interested, it's like, great, put me into contact with your security people because they're going to have this massive Excel spreadsheet with 300 questions that my security team has to fill out.
00:21:05
Speaker
Because I learned that the hard way that you spend eight months on something, they're ready to go, but now you've got to go through the security review. The other thing, great thing about having that conversation up front is if the security team sends you that spreadsheet, yes you know they're really serious.
00:21:23
Speaker
Yeah, they put the work in. They want information. if you don't If you're not serious, you don't provide the information. It's really
Fitting into Sales Roles
00:21:30
Speaker
interesting. I mean, you've taken what was a disaster, a huge magnitude rocked the world and affects lots of people and still today and you've used your experience to then try and help the people who were impacted by that disaster that murderous act and that has then led to was like a another career for you as this evangelist advocate for sales careers
00:21:59
Speaker
What you're saying is that anyone can be a salesperson because being a salesperson doesn't put you into a pigeonhole. As long as you're dealing with the right type of organisation, with the right type of product or service, it's about matching your personality, your skill sets to the product or service that an organisation wants to sell and other organisations want to buy.
00:22:26
Speaker
The key for what you're saying is that you have to be able to sell yourself. You have to be able to have communication with other people, hold a conversation, ah talk about a wide range of subjects and build a relationship with the people that you want to work with as a supplier to a customer or like many organizations talk now in terms of partnership.
Developing Communication Skills
00:22:50
Speaker
We are partnering with our customers because we're helping them to develop something and they're helping us to develop something. When people are at school, ah college, universities, and they're doing all their qualifications, it's very much focused on the technical.
00:23:05
Speaker
Two plus two is going to equal four and B follows A type of thing. It's always, there's a system to follow and there will be a system in sales. Mm-hmm. But what you seem to be saying is that if you are thinking about a job in sales, regardless of what age you are at, you have to develop the skill, that communication skill, to be able to talk to anyone about anything almost and to build that relationship.
00:23:35
Speaker
So given the fact that in the UK we'd say you can't do a GCSE in that type of communication, what would be your advice to people to develop that sort of competence, those sorts of skills to be able to have that communication? What's what's the advice that you would give people? There's a couple of things. One, Toastmasters, joining a Toastmasters club great.
00:23:57
Speaker
it's not just about giving speeches. It's it's about communication. There's so many of them and and it's worldwide. And there's also now um you can attend Toastmaster meetings online.
00:24:10
Speaker
The other thing too is because if your job's not a hundred percent virtual, some point of it is going to be virtual. So get a free virtual meeting account, Zencaster, whatever, and just practice having meetings and with family members, you know, set up a weekly, you should be dude you should be talking to family, you know, instead of having a family thread on your phone, text thread, do family meetings and practice logging on, practice muting, practice sharing your screen. Those are communication skills that will serve you regardless of what you end up selling.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, good advice. Thank you very much, Bill. It's been a very interesting conversation. of yeah you changed my perception of salespeople somewhat, I think. I'm so happy.
00:25:00
Speaker
You changed my perception of the sales process and the role that people can do within that. That's been great. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me, Michael. My pleasure. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abucida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Bill Becker.
00:25:19
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abucida.co.uk. There is a link in the description. I must remember to thank the team at matchmaker.fm for introducing me to Bill.
00:25:31
Speaker
If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests, or if like Bill, you have something very interesting to say, matchmaker.fm is where good matches of great hosts, that's me, and great guests like Bill are made.
00:25:45
Speaker
There is link to matchmaker.fm and an offer code in the description. If you're listening to the independent minds on your smartphone, you may like to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data.
00:25:59
Speaker
So listening on 3.0 means you can wave goodbye to buffering. There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3.0 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code.
00:26:14
Speaker
The description also includes links to all of the websites and the books that have been mentioned in this episode of The Independent Minds, which means that that description is going to be well worth reading.
00:26:25
Speaker
If you have liked this episode of The Independent Minds, please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure that you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe.
00:26:38
Speaker
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think. A thank you to Bill for an interesting conversation.
00:26:49
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.