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S4E14: From Rutgers Law to the National Labor Relations Board, with Gwynne Wilcox RLAW'78
14 Plays1 year ago
Co-Dean Rose Cuison-Villazor is joined by the 2023 Rutgers Law School–Newark Commencement Speaker, Gwynne Wilcox RLAW'78, who was nominated by President Biden to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) and confirmed by the Senate. She shares about her journey through law school and her work on the NLRB.
The Power of Attorney is produced by Rutgers Law School. With two locations minutes from Philadelphia and New York City, Rutgers Law offers the prestige and reputation of a large, nationally known university combined with a personal, small campus experience. Learn more by visiting law.rutgers.edu.
Production Manager: Shanida Carter
Series Producer & Editor: Nate Nakao
--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/rutgerslaw/message
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello, this is Rose Guizan Villazor. I am the interim co-dean of Rutgers Law School in Newark, and you are listening to the Power of Attorney podcast. I am joined today by one of our distinguished alumni in Newark,
00:00:26
Speaker
Ms. Gwen Wilcox, who is a National Labor Relations Board member.
Gwen Wilcox's Career Background
00:00:31
Speaker
Board member Wilcox is a 1978 graduate of the Rutgers Law School in Newark, and I'm excited to say that Gwen will be the commencement speaker in Newark this coming May.
00:00:44
Speaker
Before I start the interview, let me just give you some brief introduction about her illustrious career. Board member Wilcox was appointed by President Biden in 2021 and confirmed by the Senate in July 2021.
00:00:59
Speaker
Her term ends in August of 2023. Prior to her appointment to the NLRB, board member Gwen Wilcox was senior partner at Levy Ratner, a New York City labor and employment law firm. And while there, she served as associate general counsel of 1199 SEIU, United Healthcare Workers East, and as a labor representative to the New York City Office of Collective Bargaining.
Inspiration and Upbringing
00:01:26
Speaker
Prior to joining Lee V. Radner, Gwen worked as a field attorney at Region 2 of the NLRB in New York City. As I mentioned, board member Wilcox has a JD from Rutgers Law School and she also received a BA from Syracuse University.
00:01:43
Speaker
Gwen, thank you so much for making time for us. We are so excited to hear about you and about your background and your experience. Many of our listeners are current law students and also potential law students. And you're such an inspiration and I'm so happy to have this time with you. So welcome. Thank you. It's my pleasure. So happy to be here.
00:02:07
Speaker
We usually begin these conversations by asking the interviewees about their origin story. And by that I mean, we like to ask our interviewees, you know, what has motivated them? How do they, what do they think? Can you explain their background? Tell us a little bit more about your philosophy and how you got to where you are. Okay.
00:02:33
Speaker
Well, I guess there's a lot that I can say, but I'll try to make it brief for this. But I was born and raised in New York City, and I am a public school graduate.
Educational Journey
00:02:49
Speaker
And my parents moved to New York, one from my father from Ohio and my mother from Virginia.
00:03:00
Speaker
at various ages, but they met in college, at City College. When growing up, I was surrounded by both my maternal grandmother and my maternal grandparents on a regular basis because they lived in New York.
00:03:20
Speaker
And when I look back, I realize that they really gave me a lot of inspiration for the work that I do now because while my grandfather was one of the first black firefighters in New York City, you know, he often talked about the challenges that he had in his work life. And then my grandfather on my father's side
00:03:45
Speaker
was living in Youngstown, Ohio, and he was able to support his family working in the Youngstown steel mill, which is very historical in labor history.
00:03:57
Speaker
And of course, I didn't really know all that at the time, but I realize now that in each of their own ways, they really did inspire me to go into the area of labor. And in contrast, both my grandparents' grandmothers were very much very bright and strong women, but they didn't have the opportunities to really pursue college.
00:04:24
Speaker
And so they were working women for good parts of their lives, or at least a good part of their lives. And so I really feel like I stand on their shoulders because they, in fact, had experiences of living life and being really bright, intelligent women, but didn't have the opportunity. So it's great that we are living in a world where women, in fact, do have better
00:04:53
Speaker
have more opportunities.
00:04:58
Speaker
Both my parents were educators. My father was a social worker. And he was a community activist. And my mom, in her own way, was an activist. And they both instilled in myself and my siblings the fact that we should make a difference in other people's lives. And they made, both in word and in deed, we saw what they actually did for other people in their professional capacities.
00:05:28
Speaker
So it was not unusual that, you know, education was really a big part of our existence. I mean, it's certainly clear that I would go to college. My siblings would go to college and, you know, following their footsteps, they both had pursued, you know, graduate degrees. And in fact, my mom had a doctorate in education.
00:05:54
Speaker
I'm a graduate of public schools in New York City, and I was bused to an all-white neighborhood in fourth grade. I was one of three black students in that setting. While I received a really good education, it was not
00:06:12
Speaker
I
Transition to Law
00:06:13
Speaker
don't think it was as fulfilling as it could have been because there were no examples of teachers or administrators in the school that looked like me.
00:06:24
Speaker
and the other two students in the school. But going to junior high school in that same neighborhood, that junior high school had more students of color at the time. So that was, I feel like, a better experience because one of the things is that back in the day, we didn't have play dates back then, but there wasn't even the opportunity for that because
00:06:52
Speaker
I live so far away from the school for my home, so parents were not taking their kids to my neighborhood, and they weren't really open to me visiting them at their home. So I really, as I said, received a great education there, but I was really happy when my parents moved into Manhattan because I was finally in a school where there were students that looked like me.
00:07:17
Speaker
But many more students, a lot of black and Latino students and teachers who were also committed to our education. But I really never realized that there were students who did not actually know how to read in high school. And so I was very much concerned about the fact that they didn't have some of the same opportunities I had fortunately had.
00:07:39
Speaker
going to a school where education was really important. But that gave me an opportunity to really get involved in a lot of different organizations. It was in the late 60s. So, you know, there was lots of, you know, social justice issues happening. And I tried to participate in them and also to try to make the school a better place.
00:08:04
Speaker
So I think those are the kinds of opportunities and experiences that I carry with me today. Thank you. That's really impressive to hear about your background and the kind of support and inspiration that you got from your grandparents and your family and the
00:08:24
Speaker
the commitment to education that your family seems to have imparted upon you. I'm curious why you chose to go to Syracuse University for college.
00:08:36
Speaker
Well, at the time, my father was doing some consulting work at the university with the School of Social Work. So one of his visits coincided with my deciding where I wanted to go to college. And so I visited the campus, met a lot of students, and I felt very comfortable there. They were very welcoming.
00:09:03
Speaker
At that time, I was thinking about social work as a major. Before that time, I really wanted to be a teacher, I think, for most of my life. I remember my grandfather giving me some little booklets about, oh, you could be a nurse, you could be a teacher.
00:09:20
Speaker
being a nurse, I would not be able to do it all. So I was like, oh, yeah, I would like to do, you know, I really appreciated education. But going up to the university, I learned a little bit more about the School of Social Work, and there was a professor there that my father knew. And, you know, so I had an opportunity to really have a rather in-depth conversation with her. So that's how I ended up at Syracuse.
00:09:45
Speaker
And then a few years later, you decided to go to law school. Was that always a plan for you to become a lawyer?
00:09:52
Speaker
By the time you got to college, I mean, I know you wanted, you thought about social work, but then at some point it changed to the study of law. Exactly. So I took a, um, it was two things that I think motivated me to go to law school. One was as a social work major, one of my internships, um, towards my end of my, um, I guess going into my third year of early, my, uh, my, you know, the fall of my fourth year.
00:10:20
Speaker
And my internship required me to work with young children, many of whom were babies or toddlers, who were living in a state school in the Syracuse area. And what the internship was about was trying to figure out how we could get these children into Head Start programs outside the institution. And the program I was working with, which was a
00:10:51
Speaker
program affiliated with the university, they were looking into what the different possibilities were. But the reality is that the law has prevented those opportunities for these children, some of whom still had contact with their parents, but many of them were abandoned and had severe, some of them had severe health issues. So I realized that you could be an effective social worker, but only to a certain point.
00:11:16
Speaker
And then I
Rutgers Experience and Community
00:11:17
Speaker
also took a political science course and that, you know, into gave me an opportunity to work on a brief and argue, you know, a case with a team of students. So I that cut that wet my my appetite for going to law school. Well, then please explain why you chose to come to Rutgers Law School.
00:11:44
Speaker
Okay, so it's for two reasons. I would, you know, and I'm not, I'm just, they're probably both number one reasons, but one is that there were quite a few Syracuse University students of color who had been admitted and graduated from the law school into work.
00:12:11
Speaker
And so it was a school that I was familiar with in terms of knowing its name and that it had a good reputation and especially in the area of social justice. So that was kind of a natural thought for me to definitely apply and
00:12:32
Speaker
But then also, the fact that it had a minority student program, and what I knew of it is the history of the program, how it came to be, and the fact that the deans of this program were very supportive of students. And even to this day, I am very happy for the fact that I did go to Rutgers because the support system at the law school through the minority student program was
00:13:01
Speaker
Excellent. It really encouraged a sense of community among the students of color, as well as the fact that to this day, they're still support by many of the deans and colleagues that I met at law school. Yeah. For those who are not familiar with the minority student program or MSP, as we call it at Rutgers, MSP is a post-admissions program. We pride ourselves in the support
00:13:30
Speaker
that you are talking about, and that is through MSP provides a network of both academic support as well as helping students with their summer internships, summer jobs after their first year. And really it's MSP is part of a larger
00:13:49
Speaker
family or network that once you're in MSP you get plugged into mentorship programs with lawyers who have been out in the field for quite some time and are ready to invest in these students who are now at law school. So we're very proud of our program and I'm thrilled that you had that kind of experience at Rutgers.
00:14:14
Speaker
Well, I'd like to just talk a little bit more than about while you're at Rutgers and what your experience there was like. You mentioned about MSP. Can you share a little bit more about what it was like for you in law school while you were in law school, what that was like for you?
Legal Career and Social Justice
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah. Now you're taking me back many years, but I do have many fond memories.
00:14:43
Speaker
I knew going into law school that the profession was not particularly diverse. And so my experience at Rutgers was very different because there was a sense of community among the students, whether they were students of color or white students. There were definitely activities that we participated in together.
00:15:12
Speaker
It gave me a good sense of being able to meet people and feel comfortable with each other. We tried to get through law school and obtain the experiences that the school had to offer. So I would say that was just a general sense of support.
00:15:37
Speaker
And I think MSP really set the stage for that type of community even more broadly among the students. And then after law school, can you say a little bit about some of your initial experiences in the work in the field after law school?
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah. So I actually, one of the things is I actually went to law school thinking, well, I want, I really wanted to represent poor people. And, you know, I wanted to work in legal services. So actually during law school, I did, I did in fact work at the Hudson County Legal Services and at various stages during my
00:16:30
Speaker
three years. And then after law school I applied for a Reggie Haber-Smith fellowship.
00:16:37
Speaker
And I ended up working at Middlesex County Legal Services in New Brunswick. It's no longer in Middlesex County, I don't think. I think things have changed. But back then, we were downtown New Brunswick. And I really enjoyed that work. I did the work for about four years. I did a lot of family law cases, doing getting restraining orders against abusive boyfriends and husbands.
00:17:07
Speaker
and then other housing cases and just other cases that general litigation matters. But I realized after that time that I really, I was beginning to see seeing some of the same people and really felt like I was not solving a long time problem.
00:17:32
Speaker
that our clients, unfortunately, were living in poverty, did not necessarily have equal access to jobs.
00:17:46
Speaker
And so I decided I, you know, having known that, you know, I learned about the NLRB from taking a labor law course at Rutgers, and actually one of the deans from MSP had suggested I apply to the NLRB thinking that I might be really interested in this area of the law, because I always have had kind of a social justice background.
00:18:10
Speaker
From there, I applied for a job at the National Labor Relations Board in Manhattan, which is region two, a field office. I worked there for about five years. That work consisted of investigating unfair labor practice charges, trying to work out settlements, and litigating unfair labor practices before administrative law judges
00:18:38
Speaker
who are part of the NLRB, as well as the fact there are representation cases where a union might file a petition to represent a group of workers. So we would try to work out election agreements, and if not, we might serve as a hearing officer on relevant issues regarding to the representation process.
00:19:02
Speaker
I really learned a lot about the NLRB and the Act. The fact is that I found the agency to be very much committed, the staff to be very much committed to enforcing the Act.
00:19:19
Speaker
And for me, it was really recognizing the fact that many of the people that we were helping were people who were in positions of employment and to the extent that they were unionizing or they had issues with their employer that they might be in a situation where they could be improving their own working conditions.
00:19:40
Speaker
So those experiences were definitely kind of the cornerstone to my work that I'm doing now, but it also gave me the opportunity to really work with colleagues who were just
Union-Side Law Firm Experience
00:19:58
Speaker
you know, just a really good bunch of people, um, and who were just, you know, really fun and enjoyable. And, you know, they really, you know, as a new lawyer coming in and not really familiar with the act other than the, you know, reading about it. Um, I, you know, I feel like, uh, you know, there was, there were colleagues and supervisors who really in fact, um, were great mentors. And, um, I really enjoyed my five years there.
00:20:26
Speaker
But I think in talking with lawyers from around the country, I know that many of them have similar experiences working in the regional offices as well.
00:20:37
Speaker
For those who are not familiar with the NLRB, I just thought it might be helpful to read the purpose of the Act, especially because many of our listeners are students or students-to-be. It's good for them to know about what the law says. And so in 1935, Congress passed the National Labor Relations Act, NLRA,
00:20:56
Speaker
which made it clear that it is the policy of the United States to encourage collective bargaining by protecting workers' full freedom of association. The NLRA protects workplace democracy by providing employees of private sector workplaces the fundamental right to seek better working conditions and designation of representation without fear of retaliation.
00:21:19
Speaker
You worked for five years in New York City enforcing the NLRA. And then you decided to go into private practice. Is that right?
NLRB Opportunities for Graduates
00:21:29
Speaker
Yes, that is absolutely correct. I actually never thought I would work in the law firm. I always felt like I thought I would work versus legal services and working for the government. But I realized that to have a fuller experience
00:21:48
Speaker
working with the National Labor Relations Act and I thought that it was time for me to make a change and I was offered a position at a union site law firm.
00:22:03
Speaker
where I continue to do work as an advocate on behalf of unions and individuals regarding, you know, to enforce, you know, to file charges against employers and to handle representation cases where a client was seeking to represent a group of workers.
00:22:28
Speaker
So i really was an extension of the work that i had been doing but just wearing an advocate's hat but you know ultimately we have to enforce the act you know too we have to we know what the law is and we have to you know apply it to the facts in your particular case and i did that for
00:22:49
Speaker
30 plus years. And it's hard to say that. I don't know where the time has gone. But I supervise a lot of lawyers in the area of the National Labor Relations Act. And I did a lot of work before with the Region 2 in Manhattan, as well as other regions in the area.
00:23:15
Speaker
And so that deepened my understanding of the law as well. So Gwen, I know you mentioned earlier that you had learned about the NLRB through a labor law course at Rutgers. Is the board agent job at the NLRB regional offices an entry-level job that graduating law students can seek out?
00:23:36
Speaker
Thank you for that question. Because as I mentioned before, the NLRB is really a great place to work. And so in terms of entry-level positions, there are positions in the regional offices, also in the general counsel side of the House here in headquarters, as well as the board side.
00:23:59
Speaker
So if anyone looks at the NLRB website, there's an Honors Attorneys program, which is really an excellent program where if any interested student would like to apply for a position, they have a different criteria set forth on the NLRB.gov website.
00:24:19
Speaker
And so you can either work in either the regional office, as I said, the general counsel's office, in headquarters in DC, or the board
Role as NLRB Board Member
00:24:30
Speaker
side. So if you're interested in all three, you have to file three different applications. But it gives you an opportunity to really learn the position. And if you're working on the board side, you will be rotated
00:24:44
Speaker
among all the board members, as well as the Representation Appeals Unit, as well as the Executive Secretary's Office. So it gives you an opportunity really to learn the position. It's a two-year program, and then at the end of the two-year program, you would be offered a position subject to there being operational needs. And that's similar in the general counsel side. You'd rotate to the various offices.
00:25:12
Speaker
and then the regional office, you would work in a particular regional office. So, you know, depending on what your interests are, you know, and as I said, the website does allow you to really learn, will give you a little bit more information. And then secondly, you can supply, as I did directly to the regional office or Washington and headquarters or the general counsel on the board side or the general counsel side.
00:25:36
Speaker
and as a staff attorney. And so either way, there are opportunities. And one of the wonderful things about the NLRB, besides all the wonderful people who work here, is the fact that you get a chance to really do whatever you want to do. If you really like investigating cases or doing investigating cases,
00:26:02
Speaker
in hearings or doing court work, there's all types of possibilities. So please look at our website to get additional information. So I'd like to fast forward to your current position right now. As I mentioned earlier, you were appointed by President Biden in July 2021, and then the Senate confirmed you
00:26:26
Speaker
that same month. Why don't we start by talking about what you do as an NLRB board member? Okay, so the board member, the board is to be a five-member board. We had a five-member board up until December of last year. One person's term ended in December of 2022.
00:26:53
Speaker
But we all, and it's the chairman of the board, the chairman is one of the five members of the board, and the chairman is appointed by the president who is in office. So right now there's a board majority of all the Democrats, and there's one Republican remaining.
00:27:12
Speaker
So, we all do the same is that we decide cases concerning unfair labor practice cases. So, if there are allegations and charges that are filed in the regional office, they investigate it as I used to do, there would be a hearing before administrative law judge, if the regional director authorized the filing of a complaint.
00:27:34
Speaker
And then during the course of a hearing someone might file an appeal to an interim appeal on a procedural issue to the board and then we would make a decision with the case is over with.
00:27:54
Speaker
appeals made to the full board, again to the board to make a decision in those instances. Representation cases, a very similar process except that many of those cases are, they can be cases where the regional director is
00:28:16
Speaker
working with the parties to work out an election detail. Or if not, there could be a hearing. And as I said before, I served as a hearing officer sometimes. And those might be issues having to do with what group of workers could be part of the unit that would speak where they could vote for an election.
00:28:38
Speaker
And so there might be appeals to the board on those issues before the election actually takes place. Once election takes place, there may be objections to the elections and then a party may file an appeal to the board.
00:28:56
Speaker
So those are the kind of, those are generally the types of cases. And then there's also an area, you know, with unfair labor practices, you often think about there being a union involved, but employees have the right to engage in what's called protected considered activity. And so those cases may go to a hearing before an administrative law judge.
Advice for Law Students
00:29:16
Speaker
And similarly, those cases could be, appeals can be filed with the board.
00:29:22
Speaker
So we end up writing decisions. We have just, you know, for the many students who may be listening to this, we have, you know, when I came, all the board members have a staff of staff reps who review the, who are assigned, depending on the case, are assigned to review the record.
00:29:46
Speaker
and documents and write a bench memo, which eventually gets circulated among the, generally it's a panel of three board members who will decide a case. In bigger cases, it could be all the board members. Any board member can decide to join a case if they are so interested.
00:30:07
Speaker
And so ultimately there goes up the line from the staff rep to the supervisor to the deputy and then to chief counsel and ultimately to the board member to make a decision as to whether we think there are violations or not.
00:30:25
Speaker
It's a lengthy process. It's very similar for the staff reps. It's really very close to being a law clerk, except that these can be permanent positions. It's not like you have a judicial clerkship and it's a year or two and then you move on. These can be, in fact, permanent positions. And I understand that decisions by the NLRB board may be appealed to the Court of Appeals.
00:30:54
Speaker
Right. So none of our decisions are we have to seek enforcement in a circuit court. Yeah. And so those, you know, so, you know, the ultimately the board's decision can still be considered good law unless the Supreme Court says otherwise. So there can be conflicting decisions in different circuits until the Supreme Court may decide otherwise.
00:31:21
Speaker
Can we go back? I know I'm going forward and backwards, but you will be serving as our commencement speaker. Thank you for accepting the invitation. I'm curious when you, and I've seen you at school, you're so committed to Rutgers Law School that you've chosen to come on your own and speak in
00:31:47
Speaker
in classrooms. I'm curious, when you speak with law students, what advice do you give to them about what they should be thinking about when they're in law school?
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah, probably thinking more about things than I thought about when I was in law school. I feel like I spent a lot of time just trying to think about how can I, you know, pass my classes and, you know, work part time and, you know, just but I feel like I didn't think about the next step so much. And I think it's really, I do think a lot of
00:32:20
Speaker
Students today really do think about it in the you know in a much broader way, and I'm sure many of my colleagues thought about in the broader way than I did so I do think it's very important to think about you know what it is what particularly interests you.
00:32:36
Speaker
in terms of what do you want to do after you graduate? It doesn't mean that you're going to be doing that for the next 20 years or the next 10 years or the next five years. But what is it that is really piquing your interest? I think in most jobs, it's really important to really have great writing skills, really work on your writing skills.
00:32:59
Speaker
Thinking, Rutgers offers a lot of great clinics, which really gives you a great opportunity to really see real cases and to work on your advocacy skills, regardless of what area that you want to go into. Those are always effective goals, I think, in terms of being able to seek other positions.
00:33:25
Speaker
I think it's really important I would say to really try to talk to as many people as possible. Just pick their brains, whether it's professors, other students, alum, because you never know when something will pique your interest and you really want to pursue that.
00:33:44
Speaker
area or just really be able to have a mentor i mean having a mentor is really very important because they can help guide you and you know and your career and you know helping you to believe you know frame.
00:33:59
Speaker
What is your next step? Many of us thought about, okay, we have to pass the bar and then we'll think about this. But it really is like, how do you encompass everything in terms of being the effective lawyer that you have gone to school to become?
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's a lot to think about though, right? Especially for, I think about many of our students are first in their family to go to law school, first in their family to go to college. And so they don't, they might not be, they might not feel as confident about seeking mentorship. And although they should, so those listening to me right now, you should do not have any qualms at all about going to your professors and other,
00:34:43
Speaker
lawyers and alumni from Rutgers Law School because we want to support you. But I think about many of our students who are first in their family, and I agree with you. It's important to think about the next steps, the next couple of steps, what classes to take, what internships to apply for, what jobs to think about, but it's a lot to think about. And so again,
00:35:06
Speaker
So it's really important then to, from hearing what you're saying about getting the kind of support from professors and from your classmates. So the importance of that kind of network is really critical for helping to launch that initial career.
00:35:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I think sometimes, you know, we, I think that, um, it doesn't take, you know, it's like we put titles, you know, someone to be your mentor. It doesn't have to be all that serious. I mean, it really can be someone that you actually just happen to talk to who can actually pique your interest about something. Um, so I recognize the fact that
00:35:46
Speaker
There's a lot going on in law school, and there's a lot of pressures on everybody. But just taking that moment to breathe and just say, oh, OK, I get to talk to someone different, that can be encouraging. I'm curious, throughout your career, I imagine there might have been moments that were challenging to you, that you faced some challenges.
00:36:14
Speaker
And in those moments of challenge, what did you do in order to try to overcome those challenges that you faced? I would say that I have a bunch of friends, many of whom are some of who are lawyers, some of who are not, who I would try to get a reality check with them about something that happened.
00:36:43
Speaker
You know, I mean, as a younger lawyer, I mean, I certainly, it's hard to remember, you know, all the experiences that were challenging then. But, you know, I do remember, you know, appearing before judges who didn't recognize I was a lawyer, despite the fact that I made appearances on behalf of someone. And, you know, one judge thought I was the wife of the
00:37:10
Speaker
My client, he was so confused, despite what I said. Now it seems a bit comical, but at the time it was not.
00:37:25
Speaker
You know, I mean, I think that, you know, things like that happen and, you know, or worse things happen. But I think, you know, I found that talking to other peers and, um, was particularly helpful to me. And also some people were, you know, older than peers, but had some experiences and knew who I, you know, who I am and, you know, to try to help walk, you know, work through those issues. But, um,
00:37:52
Speaker
I do think it's important to talk it out as opposed to getting so wrapped up and overwhelmed with the issue that you kind of lose sight of. Maybe it's not as bad as you think it is, or you need to figure out how to deal with the situation so that you're not walking around feeling burden. Yeah, no, that's really important. That's an important message, I think.
Challenges and Advocacy
00:38:21
Speaker
whatever the challenges are, it is important. It's necessary to talk to someone about instead of internalizing any of those issues on your own and managing those issues on your own. I always tell my students, if you have any concerns, just talk to your professors or come talk to your classmates and get the help that you need. I can totally relate to what you're saying about
00:38:46
Speaker
being mistaken for somebody else other than being a lawyer. We've met each other before. We can see each other right now. And as you can see that I present as a younger woman, even though I'm actually over 50 years old. And that kind of the youth or just a woman of color who is shorter than there are these different stereotypes that are put on me, as I imagine it would be on you. And that is an ongoing challenge even today
00:39:15
Speaker
with respect to letting people know that we are leaders, that we are in positions with great responsibilities. And sometimes you just kind of have to take it in stride, but others you just want to be able to shake someone and say, come on, it's already 2023. What are you thinking? What are you saying? So I mean, in many ways, that's why it's so incredible to us that you're going to be coming to
00:39:44
Speaker
Rutgers at commencement and so to hear you talk about your experience and your views about the law.
Current Work and Future Plans
00:39:53
Speaker
So I'm curious then, your term ends in August, what is next for you?
00:39:59
Speaker
Well, right now I would just say I'm looking at the shorts in the immediacy. So next week I'm going to be speaking at an American Bar Association panel on microaggressions and their effect on the
00:40:20
Speaker
and DEI issues, diversity, equity, inclusion, and access issues in the legal profession. So I'm really focused on my work at this time and where I have opportunities to speak on issues that are important to the legal profession. That's what I'm currently working on. Well, if you're
00:40:49
Speaker
interested at all in teaching a course on labor relations, we would be happy to offer that to you if you have time and if you're interested in teaching in a formal capacity. We have lots of spaces for that given the demand that we have for this type of course, as you saw when you visited Rutgers Law School last fall semester.
Invitation to Teach and Podcast Conclusion
00:41:15
Speaker
Yes, I saw it. I mean, the class I spoke in was the employment law course taught by Professor Lopez. And yeah, it was 130 students. You did a lot of grading. Oh my goodness, I can't even imagine.
00:41:31
Speaker
But it was nice. I really enjoyed that opportunity and quite a few of the students were interested in employment law. There were definitely students who had backgrounds in labor law and were particularly interested in that. He does teach labor law, incorporates labor law into the employment practice as well, into the class. They do work together.
00:42:01
Speaker
and labor lawyers need to know about employment law and vice versa. Yes, that's right. Well, board member Will Cox, thank you so much for coming to our podcast and speaking with us about your experiences and about your time at Rutgers Law School. We're so grateful to you and inspired by the work that you've done and appreciate that you've made time for us today. Thank you. Well, thank you. My pleasure.
00:42:29
Speaker
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