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People Pleasing ~ Rewiring Your Subconscious ~ Finding Your Purpose
9.3k Plays2 years ago
I just know you are going to absolutely love this chat with a friend of mine, Maddie Storey who is an absolute wealth of knowledge when it comes to equipping people with user-friendly tools for self-reflection and brain rewiring. Maddie empowers individuals all over Australia and New Zealand to manifest the lives they genuinely desire to lead, through demystifying the complexities of neuroscience and psychology.
What we cover in this episode:
- Why understanding our subconscious mind is so important when it comes to manifesting.
- People pleasing - why we do it, and how to stop sacrificing our authenticity for connection and the desire to be liked and accepted.
- The importance of self reflection and acknowledgement
- The neuroscience and psychology behind confrontation and uncomfortable situations - fight, flight, freeze and fawn.
- Finding Your Purpose
View Maddie's pages below!
Maddie's Website
Maddie's Instagram!
View my website here! (My very own oracle cards, journals, meditations + more magical stuff available!)
Find me on Instagram here!
@passaroundthesmile
@cleomassey
Join my Facebook community group here!
The Pass Around the Smile podcast is recorded on Bundjalung Country, in South East Queensland, Australia. We acknowledge the Yugambeh people of the Bundjalung Nation, the traditional owners of this land. We pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.
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Transcript
Introduction to Pass Around the Smile
00:00:01
Speaker
Pass Around the Smile is like your go-to friend, the one that lifts you up and backs you to the end. She's there to guide and inspire, challenge and teach, and remind you that your best self isn't out of reach. Self-development, manifestation, self-love and more, it's time to trust the process more than ever before. Welcome to Pass Around the Smile, the podcast. I'm your host, Cleo Massey, and I am so glad you're here. Let the magic begin.
Meet Maddie Story: Manifestation Expert
00:00:30
Speaker
I'm very excited to introduce a friend of mine to you. Her name is Maddie Story and she is an absolute wealth of knowledge when it comes to equipping people with user-friendly tools for self-reflection and brain wiring. Maddie empowers individuals all over Australia and New Zealand to manifest the lives they genuinely desire to lead
00:00:50
Speaker
through demystifying the complexities of neuroscience and psychology. I am honestly so excited for this chat and I just know my pass around the smilers are going to love what Mads has to say. Maddie's research and field of expertise is particularly mind blowing for those of us who love the woo woo side of things. It's just really reassuring to hear just how much backs the power of positive thinking, gratitude, mindfulness, manifestation, all the magical stuff that we love.
00:01:17
Speaker
But it's time to get into this chat with this powerful, wildly smart and amazing woman.
Manifestation and the Subconscious Mind
00:01:23
Speaker
Welcome, Maddie. Thank you. Oh my God, I'm so excited to have you here. It does just feel like we're at coffee. Well, coffee and hot chocolate. Coffee and hot chocolate, yes. Coffee for me and then hot chocolate for you. Yes. That's exactly right. With marshmallows. Yes, of course. Yes. I don't know why they don't put marshmallows in my coffee yet. It's something I'm going to ask. It's quite rude. It is quite rude. Don't assume. Don't assume. Don't make assumptions. Don't make assumptions if I don't want it.
00:01:47
Speaker
So everyone we have Maddie in the studio and as I said in my intro I just know that you are all going to absolutely love her and I just cannot wait for you guys to hear what she has to say because honestly like when you talk I'm just like so enthralled. So let's just let's just get straight into it and I think I want to start with a bit of a manifesting question because my community just love anything to do with manifestation. So I wanted to know
00:02:16
Speaker
that kind of more about the subconscious mind and why understanding what our subconscious mind is doing and saying and dictating is so important when it actually comes to manifesting successfully? Yes. Yeah. Big question. Yeah. I feel like manifesting is probably one of those words that gets thrown around a lot. Um, it's quite trendy at the moment, which is incredible as well, but I don't think anyone
00:02:43
Speaker
really understands how hard it is so I look at it quite differently probably from I guess the science perspective and the spiritual perspective as well I've gotten quite interested in I think like Buddhism and different things like that as well which is really cool but one of the things I think they always tell you in any sort of teachings around whether it's religion or philosophy or manifesting it's like
00:03:08
Speaker
you have to believe it, right? Or you have to kind of believe it like it's already happened. Which sounds really simple, but it's not when you actually understand.
00:03:18
Speaker
kind of a little bit around the neuroscience of our brain as well. Because what we think, feel, and do, 95% of it is subconscious. That's like such a big amount. I know. And I've seen people realize that. So 95% of what you do, you're not consciously aware of. So are you kind of saying that our subconscious mind basically dictates 95% of our behavior? Yes. Yeah. Which is terrifying. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think this is a thing people don't realize
00:03:45
Speaker
how complex it is or how much of what they're doing, they're unaware of. And I think one of my favorite quotes, I've probably said this to you a million times, but until you make your subconscious conscious, you're guided by that and you'll call it fate. Yeah, that is really good. And I feel that hopefully that will make a little bit more sense throughout the podcast as well. But until you really understand some of the habits that you're running off, some of the belief systems that you're running off that you're unaware of,
00:04:14
Speaker
you're not really going to be able to create the life that you want because you're not consciously creating it. You're running on autopilot essentially. So let's say for example, like if we talk about the subconscious to kind of start with, if you're wanting to bring in maybe financial success or career success or as simple as maybe your idea of a healthy relationship and you didn't see that as a child and you haven't really seen examples or you haven't experienced it,
00:04:44
Speaker
you might not believe on a subconscious level that it's possible. So all your behavior is going to dictate that as well. What you think, your habits, what you feel.
00:04:53
Speaker
Consciously, you could sit there and kind of say, oh, yeah, yeah, cool. I want my dream job. I really want my dream job. But you might have some belief systems there that are conflicting with that. Yeah. So even if we're saying like the positive mantras, like I deserve this big beautiful house or like, you know, it doesn't do anything if our subconscious mind is saying you don't deserve that big beautiful house because you grew up in, you know, wherever you grew up.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, essentially you can say all and like mantras do help and I'll get into that as well. They're really, really important. And they're a tool that you use to retrain the subconscious mind to an extent.
Neuroscience and Subconscious Programming
00:05:27
Speaker
But there's, you can do all the mantras in the world. You can do all the visualizations in the world. And if you've got some conflicting subconscious programming, it's not going to work. I guess the way I kind of look at manifest and I look at it very differently as well. I kind of look at it as it's a subconscious programming plus aligned action.
00:05:45
Speaker
So it's really what you believe in your whole body as well and your body has a huge part to play into it because your body is your brain essentially. There's an incredible book that actually talks about that and then you're
Overcoming Fear: Maddie's Public Speaking Journey
00:06:00
Speaker
aligned actually. So you can consciously sit there and say
00:06:03
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Um, you know, I want this dream house or I want that, but your, your online action isn't going to get there. And I think I've spoken about it. I used to be petrified of public speaking, right? So if I sat there and going, okay, in my head, yeah, I want to be a great public speaker. I want to be Barack Obama.
00:06:20
Speaker
Our brain actually does have an inbuilt bullshit detector. Can I say it by the way? Yes, exactly. I was like, that one actually come out. Our brain has it. Yeah, it has an inbuilt bullshit detector as well. It needs evidence. It goes off that past experiences. So if I say, yeah, I want to be a speaker and I get up there and I visualize it and then what happens, my fight or flight takes over.
00:06:43
Speaker
And I have basically my subconscious mind takes over. And what happens when we go into fight or flight is the part of our brain, which is prefrontal cortex, but essentially that's responsible for our conscious choice and our logic, our logical decision making. That's drained of all its resources in that particular moment. So your subconscious takes over. And then what would happen is I'd have a really probably unhelpful experience when I was public speaking.
00:07:11
Speaker
Body would start to shake. Voice would start to tremble. My brain would start to look for all the evidence that people weren't enjoying what I was having to say. And I'd probably do a pretty terrible job, essentially. And then I would start to really reaffirm that belief system that I wasn't good enough. So what is gonna happen is I'm continuing to really hardwire that belief system that I'm not a great public speaker. I'm never gonna take a lined action to get to where I wanna get to.
00:07:40
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Okay and then so can we use your example then? What did you do to overcome that then? Like how did you unseat that bad thought that was stuck in your subconscious? Yeah and I think it's really and that's what we'll kind of get into today as well. It's so dependent on where that experience came from and what trauma was attached to it. So for me I can probably
00:08:01
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remember back to the first experience. I was eight years old and I got up there and I remember just seeing black and I went off and I just ran off in tears. I was like, no, that's not for me. I'm not doing that. This is bullshit. And then I think what happened there is that was the start of my belief system around not being a great public speaker. And I didn't even realize that that was something that I wanted to do or was my passion really, because I think
00:08:29
Speaker
if i went back to where i was a child where i was my natural best i was putting on shows and i was telling stories and i just loved it but i had that one experience and then what happened was i avoided it throughout school when that fight or flight response take took over and then i started to develop that belief system that i was just not a great public speaker right and then i finished uni and somehow i just got into a job where facilitation became an option and then
00:08:58
Speaker
my manager at the time, he saw a couple of, like he saw me speak to a couple of people and he was like, I think you'd be a really good facilitator. And I was like, all right. I was like, what does that entail? And he's like, publicly speaking. I was like, I'm out.
Motivation and Overcoming Limiting Beliefs
00:09:13
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And he was like, how do you feel when you're running those group sessions with two or three people? And I was like, cloud nine, I love it.
00:09:22
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And then I think the motivation was there to overcome that belief system. And this is the biggest thing as well. You've really got to have the motivation to want to change because if you don't have the motivation, you won't change. So the motivation was there because I started to find out about careers that were on offer for me, what it could look like. And then suddenly the sudden urge came, all right, I can overcome this. And there wasn't that many terrible experience attached to it besides
00:09:50
Speaker
I'd had some, you know, ran off the stage and probably some quite embarrassing, I guess shameful moments. But it wasn't that entrenched in a really unhelpful experience. It was probably a little bit easier to rewire. And then eventually what he said, he was like, look, I've got this gig that I need you to MC in like nine months. And I was like, what do you mean MC? I was like, I'm never public.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah. I've never got up and done anything like that in my life. And it's interesting because they reckon the researchers kind of say it at the moment to change a mental habit or rewire your brain. It takes about nine to 12 months of consistent practice. Interesting. So the universe is like here's exactly nine months.
00:10:28
Speaker
for you to reprogram whatever is going on in there. Yeah, to get your shit together. Yeah, 100%. Here's your timeline. And again, that's really dependent on what you've been through too. If there's other experiences attached to it, it could take a lot longer as well. So that was something that I had in my mind. And then there was a lot of knowledge, I think, from people I was working with around kind of neuroplasticity and wellbeing and different things like that.
00:10:57
Speaker
So I had to really train and this is the thing I think what happens is we've got to retrain our nervous system. So we can't go from being a scared public speaker to emceeing overnight. You're going to overwhelm your nervous system and your brain's wired for safety. So what's going to happen is you're going to probably sort of that belief system is going to become stronger that you're not enough. So you've got to kind of put yourself in an uncomfortable situation.
00:11:22
Speaker
but incrementally, so you're not overwhelming your nervous system as well. You're building that resilience. Because I think when you have a resilient nervous system, it's about putting yourself into an uncomfortable situation, feeling uncomfortable, feeling the stress response, but being able to get out of it. Does that make sense? Yes, it makes so much sense. Yeah, because I think that's a valid quote, but a lot of people out there are like, do the hard things.
00:11:47
Speaker
Which does, yes, 100% do hard things. Put yourself out of your comfort zone, but don't overwhelm yourself. No. It's going to do more harm than
Crafting Realistic Mantras and Belief Systems
00:11:57
Speaker
good. Yeah. I find that too with mantras. Like I have a lot of people wanting to create those mantras that are so big. And you know, if you're going through a depressive state or if you're feeling anxious or if you just have some limiting beliefs that are holding you back and you're saying a mantra like,
00:12:12
Speaker
I am so capable in the workplace and everybody wants to work with me, you're not going to believe it and it's going to do more harm than good and remind yourself that you are not that because you don't feel that and don't believe that. So I agree like I think bring it back down like we don't have to keep striving for like
00:12:29
Speaker
greatness and to be the best and like hustle hustle hustle like I think this hustle culture has become very apparent. Yeah it's it's unproductive and it's it's so true of what you were saying around people grabbing these mantras that are going to make them feel worse about themselves because it's like when I talk about the brain having a bullshit detector it needs evidence so if I say that all my experiences so when we think of the subconscious brain the two most important things to remember
00:12:57
Speaker
I mean there's a lot of things. The things that are kind of relevant for this sort of podcast is it houses maybe attitudes and beliefs that you're unaware of and it also houses all your habits mental and physical as well. So if your brain is always going to kind of dig into past experiences
00:13:14
Speaker
to guide us through our decisions as well. It's basically how it keeps us alive, right? Because it's wired for safety. So it's basically telling me, hey Maddie, you've had some pretty poor experiences with public speaking.
00:13:28
Speaker
I've got some experiences here. My body's shutting you down because it doesn't want you to get up there and do that. Because it's kind of wanting to keep me safe. Whether that's helping me or not, it's probably not. It's definitely not. But my brain is kind of sitting there, I want to keep you safe as well. So I can't sit there and tell my brain, I'm Barack Obama, with my whole brain sitting there going, no, no, no, this is. And I think people, when we talk about workplaces or whatever it is, if you feel a social threat,
00:13:55
Speaker
and you feel a physical threat, your brain can't really tell the difference. If you're feeling socially threatened, like this is why people fear public speaking, it has a pretty similar response to if you're in physical danger.
00:14:09
Speaker
Right. So your brain can't tell the difference if like a lion is running at you versus... Does that go for like say confrontation as well? Like if you're having a confrontation with like a friend or a work colleague, what happens there and how do we like... How do we deal with that in a way that is calm and when we can actually perceive
00:14:29
Speaker
Clearly. Yeah, that is a massive topic as well that I'll get into because when we talk about the kind of fight or flight response, they're not the only two F responses that we can have. We can also have a freeze response or a foreign response and foreign is basically to like
00:14:50
Speaker
people please or to shut down and basically at all costs, avoid the confrontation as well. So for most people, and it really depends on people's experiences. So growing up...
00:15:02
Speaker
confrontation could have been really unsafe for someone. So when they're in there and that can feel like the worst thing in the entire world as well. You know, you shut down and your whole body's like, I want to get out of this. This feels like the worst danger. And a big thing when we talk about confrontation in the workplace, if you look at the history and how humans have evolved, we've survived in communities. Like we continue to survive in communities. So being socially safe and having a sense of social wellbeing,
00:15:32
Speaker
is paramount for our survival on so many levels. Not only our survival growing up, but also how we continue to evolve and be well as a human. No amount of, I guess, journaling and all these other fantastic things that we can do for our mental health will ever outdo the need for human connection.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yeah and I know like you and me have talked about this a lot while we sacrifice for human connection. Yes. Yes. People pleasing, a big one. Yes. And what I guess we are doing by people pleasing is sacrificing what might be really important to us and our values and our beliefs. Yes. So talk us through that. I know we're kind of jumping but there's so much exciting stuff to talk about. I know, I know and I think
00:16:14
Speaker
When we come like this idea of like rewiring our brain and different things like that when it comes to public speaking which is really ironic which was what I was telling you before it's now I'm I feel like it's one of my biggest gifts it's what I do so it is very very possible but I think what is interesting when we talk about confrontation and people pleasing if I'm being vulnerable that's one of the hardest things that I've had to overcome and I'm still working on it
00:16:37
Speaker
And I think we sacrifice our authenticity for connection all the time. Because a need for connection is always probably going to be the strongest desire for a human. But also our need to be our authentic selves is so paramount. And that's just so conflicting. Yes, isn't it? People sacrifice. And I've done that so much until I've gone. And it's quite interesting because I've been working in, I guess, mental health and
00:17:03
Speaker
personal development or whatever. I find those words sometimes really cringy but you know I've been working this for so long and until I've actually deep dived into some of my own stuff that was a lot more complicated I don't think I realized how much I sacrificed my authenticity or have for connection and I think if you look at whatever religion you buy into you know if you're an atheist if you're spiritual whatever it is humans have a need to be their true selves. We have a need to be seen for who we are
00:17:32
Speaker
And when we try to sacrifice that, it has such unpleasant outcomes. Yeah. Yeah. And like when we do it over and over for so long, our subconscious mind, I guess, gets attached to what we're doing and it becomes like, it almost feels like it's a part of us. Yes. And that we can't ever detach from that. Yeah. And there's so many people who have their identity as a people pleaser. Yes. That used to be me. I would call myself and I'd be like, I'm Maddie, the people pleaser.
00:17:58
Speaker
And I think one of the things before you start to kind of go through down this train of trying to rewire that, and a huge part of it is going to a psychologist, which I'm a massive advocate for, because when we spoke about at the beginning, 95% of what we think, feel, say, and do is subconscious, no matter how incredible you are, you can't do that on your own. No, you need help. You've got to have someone challenge you. Like you've got to have somebody come in and say, hey, you've done this, or have you identified this?
00:18:26
Speaker
incredibly life-changing. But I think when we talk about this idea of letting go of an identity as a people pleaser, I thought it was for me.
00:18:35
Speaker
oh, I'm not gonna be a nice person anymore. I love that quote and I'm gonna get it wrong, but it's something like, you can still be bold and be kind. You can be, see, I can't remember the rest of it. You can still be kind and empathetic and a good friend and a good listener, but you can have your boundaries in place and you can say no without feeling guilty. You can do all of these things because this is our life and we deserve to live it and love it as well.
00:19:03
Speaker
But why do we people please? Like why do we do that? So if we look at it from and this is where I think people need to be a lot kinder to themselves and also be kinder to people who do people please. Like not take advantage of that. Yeah and also understand because it can be quite frustrating if someone is people pleasing and you know you're really close to them and
00:19:22
Speaker
your desire and authentic connection or in a friendship or a romantic relationship, it can be quite difficult. And I will kind of share my own experience with this as well. When we talk about the fight or flight, so when we feel stressed, so getting back to that work confrontation, right? You're feeling socially threatened. So you're starting to go, okay, shit, I'm feeling socially threatened. And then, for example, throughout my childhood, my survival mechanism to get through was to form to people, please. So my body's being like,
00:19:52
Speaker
All right, this isn't good. You know how you're gonna survive? You need to go into that foreign response. So I go into that logical part of my brain, it's not working. So consciously I wanna sit there and say, hey, actually, I don't really like what you did there, but I don't have much control over that because I'm going into that foreign response. Very similar to if someone was going into the fight or flight, right? You see that all the time that people go, I just need to run away, I can't. And you can feel yourself going into that. So at all costs you people please.
00:20:22
Speaker
And it's also, we're not very in touch with our feelings when something like that happens. We go into anxiety and thoughts rather than actually processing what's going on. So. Right. And does that kind of like cloud our judgment? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And we just go straight into everything's fine. It's okay. Put our head down because we want to be a part of the community. We want to survive. We're sacrificing that. Yeah. And at work, like it happens all the time because works for most of us is probably in an environment where it's the biggest community
00:20:51
Speaker
that most of us are a part of, right? And it's really interesting with work environments because they're not very in tune to how the brain works. They're quite extrinsically motivated. So they're kind of motivated by reward and punishment. Whereas our brains are actually motivated by things like connection, respect, physical and social safety. It's not an environment where, especially someone who, not all the time, and I'm not speaking for all workplaces, but someone who has
00:21:19
Speaker
who's more likely to fawn, it's going to be very helpful for them. So people pleasing is a way of surviving, like we're community-based creatures, we want to connect. For a lot of us, it could be attached to a lot of childhood trauma as well. That was how we got through, that's how we learned to survive. So even though we're not a child anymore, and the adult that we're talking to
00:21:40
Speaker
you know, is probably gonna be okay with us saying that we're upset. Most relationships, healthy relationships can withstand disappointment, can withstand a bit of rejection, they have to. But our body doesn't remember that, so it just goes into that mode. And then what happens is, when we're doing that all the time, it damages our connections. It also really damages our self-esteem and our subconscious programming. Yeah, and I guess we're kind of affirming.
00:22:04
Speaker
those limiting beliefs that are sitting in our subconscious that we're not enough or we're not a good friend or whatever it is, we're affirming it and then making it so much worse rather than actually doing the work. But doing the work is hard. Doing the work is so hard. And when we talk about taking a line of action to get where you want to or create what you want, when you're working from a response like this, it's really hard. And I think I felt like a bit of a fraud, I guess, because I've been working in this space for so long and I'd seen psychologists, but I'd never actually gotten invested
00:22:34
Speaker
you know, a huge amount of time. And I think when we talk about doing the work, we can read all these books about, you know, wellbeing and manifesting or whatever it is or mental health or whatever it might be. We can read all these books and it's great. But in that moment, when you're, you're activated, you're a middle. So what happens is when we sense danger, physical or social danger,
00:22:57
Speaker
our amygdala kind of sets off like a little smoke detector and we go into fight or flight. We get, we get hijacked because we just want to go into safety or freeze or fawn or whatever it is. A lot of people might have that freeze response where they just freeze. Yeah. So everything that you know about
00:23:17
Speaker
very or mental health it goes you go straight into you want to keep you want to survive and I think until I saw a psychologist like you can't read a book about swimming and become good at swimming you've got to practice it yes work has got to be practiced like well-being mental health has got to be practiced day in and day out for some stuff like for me public speaking I was able to do that on my own yeah whereas people pleasing was something that I've needed to based on childhood traumas and different things I went through yeah I needed to bring in a psychologist and
00:23:47
Speaker
I think where I knew how much I'm a fan, this is a bit of a laugh, I found the one as a psychologist and I went in and I was like, oh my God, I really like her, I wanna be friends with her, which she can't be friends with you, psychologist. I sat there in for like 10 minutes and I was like, I feel like I'm really emotionally dumping on her.
00:24:07
Speaker
what you're going there for. Were you like how are you though? I did do that. You wanted to ask her all about herself didn't you? Instinctively I felt so guilty and then she said to me she's like you realise you come in here for I pay a decent amount of money for these sessions but you want to talk about 10 minutes and ask me about my day. Like that would make me feel more comfortable thank you.
00:24:32
Speaker
Like, it would be so much to be like, when you talk about these, you look away, or your body reacts there, and I was like, oh my God, I'm a real people pleaser. She's like, yeah, darling. Like, yeah. Okay, can I ask you a question? If this is too personal, we don't have to go there, but on your, cause I've been on a similar journey. I used to be a people pleaser in so many different areas. And I think for me, that came from my acting background, always wanting to be picked, like, you know, like me, the most, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:01
Speaker
what I found was when I started to unpack it all and change some things that I was met with a bit of you know some some questions from people that knew me as a people pleaser because all of a sudden I was saying no to things and I was taking care of myself so have you kind of found that response from people around you like how because I guess we probably have listeners being like yeah okay it's all well and good to just
00:25:27
Speaker
not become a people pleaser anymore, even though the journey is hard. But you have, you're met with resistance along the way. 100%. And I will say, this is one of, like anything when you go into, I'm really conscious that people have different experiences. Like with your acting, we've discussed about that. And my experience, like everyone's had some different experience that they've learned. And I think, to be honest, I think in general in society, especially for women, there's a lot of kind of unconscious sort of, we have to be the nice person, we have to say yes.
00:25:58
Speaker
We have to, you know, kind of be quiet, be good. Be fun, be a nice girl, like, you know, don't. And I think that most women I speak to, and I'm not saying that actually, because I've got like a lot of male friends who struggle with this as well. But like people have struggled with this to some sort of end as well. And depending on what you've been through, it is hard. And it is so hard when you're met with resistance from people because your whole survival instinct, like if I'm being really honest, my whole self-worth used to be around being liked.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah, at all costs. Like, it was like, I have to be to be enough, I have to be liked by people. Even if I'm being really honest, people I probably didn't even respect.
00:26:37
Speaker
Isn't that funny? I have absolutely felt the same and I've journaled and I've journaled about it to try and release it. And like, why do I care what this person thinks about me when we're very different people, I might not even respect the way that they live their lives, yet I want to impress them. Why? Why do we, why? It's a lot of it's unconscious. There's something in there that you have got to discover about yourself as well. And this is the benefit of going to a psychologist. It's like until,
00:27:06
Speaker
Like if we talk about pain or anything like that, which I think people pleasing is a form of pain. Like a lot of people pleases are probably just walking around with a lot of repressed anger. And that's nothing. We don't need to be scared of anger. But I think pain is or our body is coming up because it wants us to resolve something. It's not something to be scared of. It's like you'll continue to probably go into fight or flight or form.
00:27:28
Speaker
in certain situations, because your body's remembering. You're like, in saying that, I don't want to say that flight or flight is a bad response, because you're always going to go into it, but it's how quickly you get out of it, and it's how resilient your nervous system is, and you've been able to recognize it and manage it, because it's an amazing response, it keeps us alive. But there is times where you go into it where it's really, really unhelpful, and you could be, because you might be triggered by something. It doesn't have to be a huge thing in your life.
00:27:56
Speaker
it's until you kind of realize or deal with it, you're going to continually to probably do things that's unconscious as well. And like what we were saying before is hurt people hurt people too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I guess you'll continue to kind of be triggered by it until you actually release what that emotion is. And it probably is still, and I know that's a confronting thing to say, but needing to be liked by people and putting all your self-worth into someone else still,
00:28:25
Speaker
is something around that belief system that you need to work through. And it's not a bad thing as well. I kind of think of workers.
00:28:33
Speaker
or in a work, it's kind of like a Harry Potter series. It's volume after volume. And we're never going to be perfect. And that can feel defeated when you're doing the work, but also the work does get lighter and it does get easier. And the more that you recognize about yourself, the more empowered you feel. And then the more empowered people around you feel, because they feel inspired by your examples. So yeah, it's all, I love this stuff.
00:28:59
Speaker
I love this conversation. Oh my gosh. That's the thing, it gets easier and you become more vulnerable and more authentic. And what I will say is when you start to do this work initially, it's gonna feel really hard. It's gonna feel really uncomfortable because you're already trying to do something that your body goes, hey, I'm gonna keep you safe. I want you to people please. And then you're met with people kind of saying,
00:29:27
Speaker
you know, or giving you resistance to it. And it's a hard thing to realize that if people are unhappy with you or, you know, a medium resistance or whatever it is, it's normally a case because they're dealing with something. Yes. It's a reflection of what? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's hard because it's like no matter what you do, like you could be the most perfect human being on planet earth, which doesn't exist. We wouldn't be funny if we were. We wouldn't. And we're really funny.
00:29:57
Speaker
I will get several lot of shit from my friends saying that. I'll be like, I like to think of money. You can't control what people think. Everyone is gonna, not everyone's going to like you. And that is such a scary thing that I've had. And I'm still not there because I completely where you are as well. I'm probably getting to those stages where I'm like, okay, this is the next layer.
00:30:27
Speaker
it's a really hard thing to accept. And also just to be kind to yourself because your brain goes, okay, socially, I want to survive. I want to be liked by everyone. I want to be a part of a community. So that's when someone angry at you can feel like a lion's coming at you. Oh, absolutely. Doesn't mean that you're dramatic. No. And like, if that's the way you feel, then that's okay. I love that quote that's
00:30:50
Speaker
What is it? Here I go again. It's something like I'm allowed to make a big deal out of things that are a big deal to me. So like if you are feeling hurt, but it might be something that someone else perceives as small, it's still okay. Everything's relative. You can still feel hurt by that thing. Be kind to yourself, let yourself have that and deal with it and then move on when the time is right. See, the thing is so many people, and this leads me into a really interesting topic. So many people don't know how to process their feelings.
00:31:21
Speaker
I always like things that I value are authenticity and vulnerability hugely. But I remember going to the psychologist and she said something to me. She said, you're actually really not vulnerable. And I was like, what? And she's like, every time you talk about something,
00:31:37
Speaker
an experience I had as a child, um, or, and things that I probably didn't realize how big they were. She's like, you're so detached from it. She's like, you laugh, you, you look away. Okay. And that was my way of protecting it because I hadn't kind of sort of jumped in and actually resolved what was going on. And I think when it comes to when we're starting to change habits, like people pleasing or whatever it is, and depending what it's attached from,
00:32:05
Speaker
it's probably gonna feel worse before it gets better. But that's okay because once you get through it, it's the most liberating, incredible experience. And I think the thing with feelings, which I didn't know, I feel like with my background and everything I've studied, I've always been like, oh, I'm really good with my feelings. I'm really emotionally intelligent, which I wasn't.
00:32:27
Speaker
Like I was, I was a good thinker. Yeah. And your thoughts honestly don't listen to them half the time. Our brain is so programmed by everything that's going on. Um, they're not always real and they're manic and they're just, it's funny what I said, because she called me out on something. I said, I think I feel, and then she's like, what did you just say? And she's like, I think she's like, you're not actually in touch with your feelings.
00:32:52
Speaker
Ooh, see, and this is the powerful stuff that you can get from a psychologist that you wouldn't have got from journaling. No, no. Or you wouldn't have got from meditating. Yes, yes. But then you can take that thought and you can go and journal and meditate on it. It elevates all those tools. It elevates all those tools, which I talk about. It really, it elevates that to a completely new level. And even
00:33:13
Speaker
Like to actually perform and you know work in I guess I kind of talk a lot about high performance because of the work I do But to really do that I think everyone will lead or go after What you want you need to kind of see what's holding you back and I guarantee you like if you have limiting beliefs around a romantic relationship or a career or whatever it is and you're not getting the results you want and
00:33:38
Speaker
there's probably some unhelpful programming there. A hundred percent. Yeah. It is like, and it's what you think. And even just, I guess, looking at yourself and going, what did I think that day? What did I, you will be quite maybe a little bit shocked because so much of it is unconscious too. Yeah. Wow. And so going back to our unconscious thoughts, all these thoughts that we have thousands and thousands, I think it's like 50 to 60,000 thoughts a day. And if you have anxiety, it's like,
00:34:04
Speaker
so much more. So we have that many thoughts a day and very often if, let's go back to say we are people pleasing in nature, we are often taking a thought that is not real, making it seem real in our mind, assuming the worst, making it bigger and all of a sudden we're having this confrontation in our minds and our subconscious right can't tell if that's
00:34:31
Speaker
happening or it's in our imagination but we're creating the vibration that it is. A hundred percent and I can tell you really I can break that down as to why that happens. This is what I wanted. So what happens is like let's say a really simple example let's say your friend does something maybe disappointing to you and you're a little bit unhappy with it and you know that you probably they've probably done the wrong thing let's call a spade the spade they're probably done the wrong thing and you know you need to talk about it doesn't mean you don't love them but you need to talk about it.
00:34:59
Speaker
rather than actually kind of feeling anger in that stage. And there's a distinct difference between anger and aggression. Because I had so, as a people pleaser, I was so scared of anger because I had seen aggression. Right, okay. Yeah, and that's what a really, a big thing that I think people, because as soon as I say, oh, you did process anger, people go, ugh. And I was like, no.
00:35:21
Speaker
you're going to get angry. It's a fact. You're going to get jealous. You're going to get all these different emotions and feelings. It's how you process them. That is different. So what kind of happens is like, you know, let's say your friend does something a little bit disappointing and rather than kind of feeling the anger and processing, sitting with it and going, okay, what's coming up for me? I don't need to think about my thoughts at the moment. I need to breathe. I just need to acknowledge my feeling here.
00:35:49
Speaker
and really process that. Maybe you need to do something with your body. You need to go for a run or you just need to stretch or whatever it is. And then you'll start to go, okay, I probably need to go and set a boundary with this person. What happens if you're a people pleaser is you're so scared of feeling anger. So your body's like, no, I don't want to feel anger. So you go into anxiety. And then what you start to do is go,
00:36:11
Speaker
Oh my God, I'm worried. You start to project this situation. You'll project the issue on them and worry about them getting angry at you. Well, this, this isn't always what happens, but this is an example of what could happen. Like this is, obviously I'm not saying that this is what always happens. It's very dependent on a person and that's why, you know, you need to probably go to a psychologist and it's something that's really holding you back. Um, you know, and then you're projected on the person.
00:36:35
Speaker
you'll feel anxious so you won't do anything and then you'll just repress it. And you'll repress it and you'll repress it and you'll repress it. And I think something with me that I've realized is, and it was actually something you said, you actually said to me, you were like, what would be the worst thing if you found the right relationship, like the man of your dreams? And I was like, oh, I'd have to let go of my career.
00:36:56
Speaker
And I was like, there you go. And I was like, which is completely unhelpful, like ridiculous programming. And then I said this to my psychologist. I said, I was like, I can't, like I'm so scared of giving up my independence. And she said, it's because you don't know how to set boundaries.
00:37:14
Speaker
And unconsciously, this is how it holds you back, right? So until I kind of dig into this work, let's say someone wants to bring in a relationship until I kind of realize what's going on, I'm gonna continue to go for unavailable people or people that I know that I'm never gonna let in or just things that are gonna reaffirm that belief system or emotionally unavailable people, people I know I'm not gonna fall for because I'm protecting myself. Isn't that so powerful though that you are able to see that?
00:37:43
Speaker
Yeah. Because that's huge. Yes. Yeah. Like it's so great that you can now see that. And I'm so excited to see how this goes hand in hand with like manifestation now moving forward that you've let go of so much stuff. You've acknowledged and realized so much stuff as well. Yes. And now it's like, oh, this is, I love how like the neuroscience, the psychology and manifesting all comes together. Yeah. It's fascinating. It's really, really fascinating. And I think people, that's where the biggest message is while I kind of
00:38:13
Speaker
ever want people to do is just have the ability to self-reflect. Don't be scared of the fact that you feel anger. Don't be scared of the fact that you've got a limiting belief or you've got a feeling because you're going to have them. Your brain's always going to make assumptions. It's always going to want to keep you safe. It's got limitations, unfortunately, but it's like we've got all these incredible tools and we can start to change the relationship with them. Because I think there's a lot of that idea when we talk about affirmations as well that
00:38:43
Speaker
that toxic positivity a little bit. There's so much of it around here. And it's really unhelpful because you can't push, the idea that you can push down and brunt through your feelings.
00:38:55
Speaker
It's just, it's not possible. It's not. And I love what you said just going back a little bit about actually self-reflecting and having some kind of acknowledgement around things that you might say or do that are out of alignment with who you are. Let's say you say something and you heard a friend or you say something at work that came across wrong.
00:39:18
Speaker
It is just so important that yeah, the easier thing would seem to be to bury it and to move on, but that's actually gonna do you way more harm in the long run. But if you actually take accountability for your actions in that moment, you gain so much more respect, you open yourself up to that connection that you're so desiring. And I really have found that with friendships of my own or like, you know, relationships at work or whatever it is, if someone does something that's,
00:39:47
Speaker
you know, a little bit off for them or maybe they hurt me in the process or whatever is happening. I don't necessarily, I mean, of course, depending on situation, but I don't necessarily need that person to apologize. But just acknowledge it, that you said it or you did it. And that for me is like, I will release everything and be like, it's honestly no problem. I literally, every part of anger or anything that I'm holding on to,
00:40:17
Speaker
He processed it. Yeah, and I just think acknowledging and having that, like, taking accountability is just so huge and it doesn't seem that big. But it is big. And I also feel things that, like, I'm quite passionate about my work, so I get quite critical of social media, which is probably not... It's an amazing platform too, but it can do.
00:40:36
Speaker
It can do a little bit of like people like you know people know about things but they don't have the evidence behind it so i like words i get see thrown around at the moment purpose authenticity vulnerability and it's almost like trendy and i'm like
00:40:50
Speaker
Being authentic is lifelong work. For me, I value being authentic, but I don't think I'm there yet. Again, acknowledging. How cool is that? Yeah, exactly. That's what I was trying to say. I love that. What you were saying is spot on about acknowledging it. To be vulnerable, it's not about
00:41:09
Speaker
I don't know what most people think it's about. It's just acknowledging things. It's acknowledging that you're human. And I think this is where meditation comes into what you were saying in mindfulness. In other words that get thrown around, mindfulness should be something that's practiced during the day. Because it's like you start to go in with a friend, right? And for me, my tale signs is like my body starts to go, my legs start to go a little bit nervy, my throat starts to clear up. I'm like, okay, I'm having a stress reaction here. I need to take a couple of deep breaths.
00:41:38
Speaker
to intervene and really take the moment of what's going on and not let, you know, my unhelpful thinking take over, not let my fear response. Nicole, the pair of the holistic psychologist talks your trauma brain. And she's like, it's almost like this trauma brain that depending on what some people have been through can take over. Her staff, how to do the work is just, it's such an incredible place to start.
00:42:04
Speaker
with um you know if you are kind of starting that inner work like she just breaks down psychology incredibly she's awesome um but it's that moment where we need to really train ourselves to kind of go i need to make a conscious choice here and take accountability like am i acting from something that is an insecurity am i and you don't need to go to a like i obviously advocate for a psychologist but you don't need to go to a psychologist to practice this as well this is stuff you can practice in your daily life it's
00:42:33
Speaker
Be self-reflective. Take a moment to really sit with your feelings. Forget about your thoughts. Identify what's going on in your body. Take a few deep breaths and kind of go, what am I feeling? Where is this coming from? And being really honest with yourself, not wanting, because your thoughts will take over and you'll justify and you'll project and you'll do all these different things. It's just changing your relationship with it too. Just kind of going, these are just thoughts.
00:42:57
Speaker
that are coming in and actually having a moment to really ask yourself, okay, where is this coming from? Why am I feeling angry? Why am I feeling this? And that's accountability, I think. I agree. And taking note then of when you do take accountability and you do self-reflect and practice that mindfulness, how has that changed the outcome for you? Journal about it, put a date on it. So you remember for next time, well, actually if I do this work, it's going to be hard for five minutes. Well, I mean, it can be a lot longer, but it depends. It's hard work for sure.
00:43:27
Speaker
but then like you're so much better off so and i think what people don't realize too is we're a dopamine addicted society so journaling and breathing and all these different things facing out like we're very afraid to feel shame yeah like oh yeah like brinay brown talks about it a lot of the people you know who will come up and present themselves as this
00:43:49
Speaker
Superior people, it's not because they're bad people, they're afraid of going in and going, shit, I'm a human, like the rest of us. I've got issues just like you, you know? That's the thing, it's like I've hurt people, I've done these different things, it's not an easy thing to face, to admit. No. And so our brain kind of, we want to do, like we want to do things that are enjoyable, like healing is not always enjoyable,
00:44:11
Speaker
But at the time it's such a release and it's going to create places that are beyond your wildest imagination. Like you don't have to live. Your brain isn't fixed. It's plastic. You don't have to live as a people pleaser. You don't have to live with anxiety. You don't have to live with any of these things. They're not attached to you. They're not attached to you. They're not your identity. They're a survival mechanism. Yeah. Even though they feel.
00:44:32
Speaker
Absolutely. So attached to you, a part of your personality, a part of your identity. Yes. Yeah. And there's been moments when I've gone through stuff and had to face stuff, especially this year, which I've said to you, where I've just gone, I'm never going to feel better. Like I'm never going to be able to get past this. And that was a thought that wasn't real. An unhelpful thought. Yeah. An unhelpful thought. And
00:44:53
Speaker
I think that's something just so important to remember that this work isn't always easy, but if it becomes a five minute part of your routine, like if you start to journal, like a journal's a great way to learn about your unconscious mind because you might go over, I do it on a Google dog and I look at like, I guess different weeks and I start to notice themes and patterns.
00:45:14
Speaker
Isn't that interesting? And I think a really powerful way of journaling is not judging yourself and reminding yourself that no one ever has to read this. If you need to write specific things about specific situations or specific people, let it out. Let it out. If you want to burn it, burn it. Whatever. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
00:45:36
Speaker
Okay, so with all of this knowledge, let's talk about now, like moving forward and finding our purpose. And I do know that the term finding your purpose can seem a little bit cliche, similar to listen to your heart, you know, go off and find your purpose, just listen to your heart. And I think this has come from social media, these topics becoming quite trendy, which again is great, but also it
00:46:04
Speaker
It makes it seem like it's really easy and we're already doing it. We're already listening to our heart. We've already found our purpose, but it's deeper than that. And you work.
00:46:14
Speaker
with this quite a lot, finding your purpose. So what actually drives us? It's a great question. And I think the whole finding your purpose has put a lot of pressure on people. Yes. Because it's about really being honest with who you are authentically as well. This is such a brilliant question. It's so layered. But one of the best places to start is before kind of unhelpful programming got in the way. Where did you lose time as a child?
00:46:42
Speaker
For me, I used to love speaking. I used to love putting on shows. I was obsessed with stories. I'd watch movies and I'd sit there and I'd create like a sequel. Like, how does that kind of relate to where I am now? I feel like I'm just a storyteller. You are. Yeah. And I feel even with what I do with my work now, I've gotten more into the designing space and
00:47:03
Speaker
you know, contracting work that I've done. I think what is so amazing about when we understand the brains, we can uncover what our story was and also what we want it to be. That's so nice. Yeah, there's a beautiful indigenous philosophy that talks about
00:47:19
Speaker
when we leave this world behind, all we leave is our story. Yes, I have heard that and it gives me shivers and it really does put everything into perspective. It does. It makes the small things just seem so irrelevant. Like why do we waste so much of our precious energy on the small things that it is at the end of the day. It's just, it's how we make people feel. It's our story we leave behind. And that's a hundred percent. It's our negativity bias and there's so many and I think really finding your purpose, it's about being honest with yourself and
00:47:48
Speaker
Once you start to lay back the limiting beliefs and the insecurities and all these different things, you will find out what you really want to do. And for some people it is creating their own business. For some people it's being the mother. For some people it's
00:48:05
Speaker
just being a good friend or lighting people up it's and I think if we look at it from a neuroscience lens like our brain needs connection social and physical safety and respect we want to be respected and valued for what we do yeah I think it was probably earlier in my career a little bit more ego driven like I was very I guess you know wanting a name for what I did and
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm still very driven and I still want those things but I think for me now, going through what I have been through and where I was as a child and what I loved and now they've kind of helped strip back the unhelpful programming.
00:48:43
Speaker
It's for helping people I guess kind of getting back to who they are at the essence. And really just not letting all this bullshit that we have to go through drive us. And the stories we're told. The stories we tell. Society. Expectations. Yeah. All that shit essentially. And I just think it's about helping people feel good and I think feel enough because I think also as much as your positive experiences
00:49:10
Speaker
take, you know, build who you are. It's also, for me, there's been so many experiences and there's things that, and I don't think, I think everyone has been through different things. And I think only until, I guess, this year for me, I really face what I've been through, which has been so hard, but it's also been really incredible. I think it's, I want people to feel enough. And finding authenticity is such lifelong work because you've got to strip all this stuff back and you've got to realise that so many things we do,
00:49:41
Speaker
are driven by our programming, not who we are. And I think at my natural essence, where I feel the best is just joy. I feel the best when
00:49:48
Speaker
I'm laughing and having fun. So it's really starting to find where you feel your natural best. Yeah. So nice. And it feels light and easy to hear what you're saying. And that's the thing. It can seem like, Oh yeah, it is that simple. And it is that simple. But of course there are layers that we have to all unpack to get there. And we all have different layers. I loved what you said, Mads, when you said that
00:50:12
Speaker
basically people just want to feel respected and want to feel like they are enough. Yeah, 100%. Don't you think that we need to every single day remind ourselves that we do not have to sacrifice to get there? No. Yeah, exactly. I feel like you just then, you were like, I just want to make people feel like they are enough. Yeah. But reversing that, like Mads, you deserve to feel like you are enough as well. So you have to always
00:50:38
Speaker
I know that you do the work and you do this as well, but sometimes we need reminding. It's like you don't have to sacrifice to feel enough either. Getting back to the people pleasing as well. There's a difference between, you can be a nice person and a caring person and still set boundaries, but there's a difference between self-sacrificing and anyone you have to self-sacrifice for.
00:51:00
Speaker
or limit your authenticity, it's not real connection. That's a hard thing, trust me, because it's like, especially, and I think the thing is, like, if we, and I think we don't realise, like, if we've had unhelpful experiences as a kid or different things like that, we tend to want to play that same role in our relationships, right? Like, we tend to want to go into, like, if you're acting, you might, you might have wanted to go in and play the people, please, or whatever it is, because your brain likes familiar. It doesn't always like,
00:51:28
Speaker
what's best for us too. So that's why, you know, you see a lot of people who choose partners. God, like, you know, that is familiar to you because it was similar to something that you had in your childhood. But it's not best for you, you know, your authentic self.
00:51:42
Speaker
And it's not really bringing out who you are, but the connection feels like there's that part of you that I think we've all got these wounds that we want to heal. And there's that part of us that really wants to heal that. So that feels really good. Yeah. You know what I mean? That feels really nice because I'll feel enough. Yeah. But it's like, you have to do that work yourself. No friend.
00:52:00
Speaker
And I think that's what finding your purpose is really about, if I'm honest, it's about healing whatever you've been through and you don't have to have been through trauma. We've all got something. We've all got some wound. Trauma is another word that gets thrown around. It's a big word. Yes, trauma and triggered. Oh, I get annoyed. Sorry. Yeah. Cause I was like, I think it takes away from people who, who, yes. Yeah. Anyway, that's maybe part two.
00:52:24
Speaker
More my home. This is something I've got to work on. But yeah, these other big words that get thrown, but we all have something. We've all had some sort of unhelpful experience or something that's hurt us that we need to overcome. And I think that is a really incredible part is once we've done that, we can get back to who we are at the natural essence. Yeah.
00:52:46
Speaker
And then everything comes from that. Finding your purpose is achieving something. Finding what drives you for sure. What drives me is people and joy and coffee and wine. I don't think the things I want to achieve are my purpose. They're things I want to do. And I think they're true to my authentic self, but I don't
00:53:09
Speaker
put myself worth in that anymore. I love that. That's refreshing because I think a lot of people think that those things need to be attached. Yes. And that that creates so much pressure. Yes. My purpose is to do this one sporting event and succeed. Yes. And then what happens when you've done that? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. You set yourself up for disappointment when you've done it and you've achieved it, you felt good and then what? Yeah.
00:53:33
Speaker
100%. So, and it's in the moment as well because a lot of life is ordinary, so making that ordinary extraordinary. And I think really being in the moment and really kind of going, I can live out my purpose having a conversation with a friend. Yeah, absolutely.
00:53:49
Speaker
And yeah I think like what you said is when we do come back to that natural essence of us that is when we can take that aligned inspired action toward where we want to go and that's when it feels good and that's when things flow and that's when you visualize and it comes into fruition because your vibration like it's all spot on it's all attached and it all flows. And that's what I really believe on a spiritual sense as well and it's it's so difficult because I work in obviously the science space
00:54:15
Speaker
And then the spiritual life is my own kind of beliefs and still working out what that means to me. But I think what it does is like, I think when you really get back to your authentic self and you're willing to have courage and overcome these things and take that aligned action, the things that you need or the things that you want to achieve, that's going to drop into you. Absolutely. Like that's going to become really clear because if you're going after things to feel enough and
00:54:41
Speaker
to feel seen or whatever it is, it just doesn't work. It doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's, yeah. We might finish there because I'm, I'm so excited to listen to it back already. But finish off with telling us where we can find you, maybe about find your zest as well. Tell us a little bit about you. Yeah. So I obviously have my work, which I do, which is incredible. But I think something I've wanted to do on the side,
00:55:08
Speaker
is accumulate my professional experience and my professional personal experience. I've worked in all different areas like schools and with adults and yeah, in a lot of different sort of variations. And I kind of wanted to put my kind of scientific knowledge and my personal knowledge together and develop like a little bit of a toolkit that people, practical exercises that people can do every day to enhance this work.
00:55:33
Speaker
um and really demystify self-reflection and it and I think the biggest thing is it doesn't have to be difficult work it can just become a part of your routine it's just about kind of in the moment knowing your body signs and taking some deep breaths or doing a little bit of journaling or asking yourselves the right questions too our brain our subconscious can't
00:55:53
Speaker
distinguish between good or bad. Like we have to guide it. We have to take control or what's going to happen is if we're feeling those negative thoughts, it's going to find all the information to support that. It's going to draw out all the experience that were unhelpful to be able to get there. So very practical tips that I use to overcome public speaking, the journey that I guess I'm going on now, which is a whole new level and just things that I've learned even from going to a psychologist at my
00:56:21
Speaker
you know, tertiary background. I've just kind of put things into a little bit of a practical toolkit that people can use. Amazing. And I will put the link in the show notes. Is it ready yet? It'll be ready in a couple of weeks. Okay. So basically what I'll do is I'll put the link in the show notes, keep checking back.
00:56:38
Speaker
Yes. Follow Mads on social and then you'll know when it's out. Yes. Perfect. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. That was so fun. We're just missing the hot chocolate and the coffee. Yes, definitely. And the coffee. Thanks Mads. Thank you.