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10 Things I Hate About You- Oh...Her...
30 Plays4 months ago
The American high school experience is so universal, even Shakespeare wrote about it. Or is it the other way around? There's only one way to find out! This movie delivers all the best fashion looks you could ever want from 1999. It was the age of limited hair/makeup skills but limitless personal style and confidence. Where do you fall on the princess -- shrew spectrum?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0147800/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_1_tt_7_nm_0_in_0_q_10%2520things
https://hellogiggles.com/10-things-i-hate-about-you-costumes/
https://www.latonique.news/articles/the-clothes-that-make-10-things-i-hate-about-you
Music: Cassette Deck by Basketcase
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Hot Set' and 'Ten Things I Hate About You'
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello, welcome back to another episode of Hot Set. We are here to talk about one of the best movies, I think, of 1999, and that is Ten Things I Hate About You, which is an installment in the 90s, early 2000s trend of taking Shakespeare plays and putting them in a high school to make them familiar to us
Setting and Fashion in 1999 Seattle
00:00:50
Speaker
somehow. So for anyone who might not be as obsessed with this movie as we are, 10 Things I Hate About You is based on Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew. And instead of being set in Elizabethan
00:01:05
Speaker
ah England, it's set in surprisingly sunny Seattle, Washington. It's not a drop of moisture in that area. Hardly even a cloud to be seen in this movie. It's insane. one
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm pretty sure that I saw this movie in the movie theater like with friends. do you Did you see it in the theater? I genuinely don't remember the first time I watched it. I think I might have seen it on VHS. like I might have gone down to VideoDroid and gotten it and been like, he'd ledger. Oh, hello. He'd ledger? Of a knight's tale, he'd ledger? Oh my god, and night oh a knight's tale. Yeah.
00:01:49
Speaker
I don't know why that laugh had to be so old, Lady Aunty, but oh my God, it was. Yeah, and I still was 2001, so it's like i I'm sure that I've already seen this. Right. But maybe like, I mean, it's very likely that it's just like maybe not like connecting the dots between then because, you know, two years is a long time when you're like 12. Oh my God, two years is the biggest span of time in the world. Like I was thinking about,
00:02:19
Speaker
what I was doing when this movie came out, and this was 1999. So it was a year, and this gets mentioned in my notes, a year of Adidas, or if you're and anywhere in Europe, Adidas. Adidas. I'm sorry, I'm a dummy.
00:02:35
Speaker
Adidas. And I remember that it was like a big thing that year. White jeans were a big deal. And the three striped two-tone Adidas sneakers were massive that year. And it was when um Adidas joggers were like the thing, like the snap sides. And it was just like, oh my God, if you don't have something by Adidas, who are you?
00:02:58
Speaker
And like all of those was represented in in this movie. This movie. Like we were middle schoolers, so this is not our age set. So like everybody felt so much older and so much cooler.
00:03:13
Speaker
oh yeah But like every single thing that is worn, every single item, and I was looking at background a lot. Me too. Every single thing that everybody's wearing, I can feel it. I can feel it, and I know that it was being sold at Old Navy. or like yeah like go Every time I see a red net like dress tank dress I'm like this is so a big deal at Costco one year and it was this year it was in 1999 because I got two of those dresses and two colors and a warm color set and a cool color set Wow
00:03:49
Speaker
And it's all the stuff that's come back. Like you see it all now. And there was like a sweet moment in time where these butterfly clips and the baby bangs, like the, not the baby bangs, like Betty page, but baby bangs, like the single, the wispy with little, little eye of your face isolated, perfectly isolated wisp. And like, I, I mean,
90s Beauty Trends vs. Today's Tutorials
00:04:11
Speaker
It's us. So how organized this is this going to be? But something that I really enjoyed kind of seeing is like how unskilled everybody looked in their looks. Like the skill came with matching things and like doing hair, but it wasn't, but hair wasn't as done. Right. People know how to do their hair now. Like I wish that I had been 12 now because I like I'm okay with I'm 37 years old, but like hair wise, I had so much curly hair when I was 12, but it was the era of the crunchy curl because like people told you, okay, put this in your hair. And then you're like, but how much they're like the size of a quarter is how much you put in there. And then you'd put the size of a quarter of product in. And he was like,
00:05:00
Speaker
So green nothing yeah greasy or whatever and it was like the because nobody knew what products to tell you to buy it was just like your stylist was like take this and you're like Yeah, I don't know for failure. but Well, there's like six products available. Like there was not like it was not And like the internet was not what it is now, so there were not the tutorials that exist now. And so it was pretty amazing to see all these curls that are undefined, frizzy, and like they're not crunchy, but they're just like loose because they don't have the product or the detanglers to like set the curl perfectly.
00:05:38
Speaker
yeah And it's just like, there's just a variety here of people who look like they know their shit. And then there are people who are dressed to just look like they're teenagers where they're not going full out every single day, but they're confident in themselves at the same time. Like, right i I just like love it. Like Heath Ledger leading man and his hair is to Christ. His hair is just, I think, and emphatically like not good in this movie. And yet, I love it. and I mean, it's great. yeah It's great. it is not It is not done the way that we think of like hair being done. like And that makes him feel more like a teenage boy, even though I'm sure he was like 20 or something. at least. like he had to be i mean and It makes them feel more like a real person. Yes, it makes them all feel like but yeah like this is not euphoria. you know yeahphoria those I haven't watched it, but those kids
00:06:43
Speaker
Oh, I have. i'm yeah I'm sure that they feel real to like people who are closer to that age now, but they feel extremely curated to me. and there's There's a slick overlay to everyone yeah in like teen content now. Yeah.
00:07:02
Speaker
that has so much to do with like skincare that we didn't have. And I think I said like teens now like 12 year olds now they are when they're doing like anti-aging skincare. It's insane like there are positives and negatives to it but like they're they have a knowledge about themselves that I did not have because I had a metal mouth full of braces to correct my pumpkin teeth. I have freckles. I have a wide nose. I have a heart-shaped face. and like you know I was not itty bitty, skinny mini, and like massive amounts of curls were all over the place, and the waist
00:07:42
Speaker
like The message from the beauty industry at that point was sort of like, good luck. Like it wasn't, you know, there was nothing. The beauty industry was you are a supermodel or we don't care about you. Like it's Barbizon or nothing. And it was like, I don't know anything. And Like I knew everything I learned came from watching women in my life, but like all the women in my life have different skin tones, different hair textures, different shapes to their faces. So like the makeup application, none of it applied. Right. So it's like the knowledge was like, I can't take your foundation because your foundation is darker than mine or your foundation is like hell of a lot lighter than mine. I can't. like Yeah. Like do there's nothing. Yeah. And so.
00:08:30
Speaker
There's kind of like a, oh, hey, I remember you looking at the actors in this where of course there's makeup, of course there's hair, and like of course that was happening, but nobody's pushing anybody in here to look like something that they would not necessarily have been at the time. There's makeup, but it's like close-up eyeliner, like little baby eyeliner. We have contouring. like We didn't do that. That wasn't a thing. We just didn't know.
00:09:00
Speaker
popularly about it and i'm sure that there were people who were but like i i just didn't know makeup and makeup is still not my world now and that's just a. That's like a sensation thing but it was like i was into i was into like magazine culture.
00:09:17
Speaker
at that time and like there's no like there's tons of makeup stuff and you know like 17 but it was like but it was all about eyeshadow yes tutorials were just put eyeshadow on your eyelid just put it on your eye try this color here's glitter yeah and then it was like eyeshadow the most exciting thing that I learned about was like cat eye and then like smokey eye The first time I came across that was a community college and I was like, how the hell did you do this to somebody? And she acted like I was insane. She told me how she did, but I was like, your eyes look so cool. How do you do that? And she was like, Oh, I put it on and then I use a Q-tip and I messed
Character Dynamics: Kat and Bianca's Sisterhood
00:09:55
Speaker
it up. And I was like, that's
00:09:58
Speaker
incredible. brad yeah and So it's like usually you'd see really cool makeup stuff with like seeing kids like alts, like punk, like subcultures is where you would see like the cool. dramatic yeah yeah but like At this age I was fresh out of Catholic school, public school, and I was like I don't know anything. like I don't know. I think this is the age when I like was very, very much tiny bit trying to like experiment with makeup because it was finally like okay for me to do so. But
00:10:36
Speaker
Nobody was showing me what to do. Yeah, no, we just didn't know no, we didn't we didn't know there was no one like I mean I can look at a picture in a magazine, but that's not a tutorial video Yeah, well, you also don't know if that's gonna work with your face. Yeah, no idea Yeah, and it was like lip lining was a thing but not everybody was doing that it was like from my experience makeup was like here is a lipstick or a lip color and it was just about color. It wasn't about like actually, it wasn't about the artistry of makeup. It was just you can put that on your face.
00:11:14
Speaker
And so like in this makeup, in this movie, I feel like there's one standout that I was like, girl, yes. It's been so long. It's so good to see you. This is a real jump to like the middle of a movie.
00:11:30
Speaker
but it's bogey lowenstein's house party no when cam and michael are looking after bianca after she's like i don't know have a good time to cam behind them you know that this scene had no sound playing and it's just people 100% dancing cuz everybody's dancing to a different beat And behind Cam is this like alt scene girl who looks straight out of hackers because she has this like amazing peaked like bang situation and like very angular haircut that's all purple.
00:12:05
Speaker
yeah And she's wearing like an orange and white t-shirt that's very much a 90s t-shirt. And she just has like the most dramatic makeup of anybody, I think, in the entire movie. Like, you're so fun. Like, who are you? What's your story? And it's like today, if 10 Things I Hate About You was being made, I think that Kat would have been her.
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah push yeah how like you know and trying to look different stuff yeah yeah is this julia roberts julia roberts julia styles in this movie is very much like a no makeup makeup look like yes.
00:12:45
Speaker
Her aesthetic is I don't care to wear makeup. Obviously it's a movie. We know she's wearing some, but like that's the vibe is supposed to be. It's supposed to just be gently enhancing. It's not like theater makeup at all. right and And like her sister, who is the opposite of the spectrum, who is hyper femme and like has the cutesy hair with the cutesy clips and the little dresses and the matching sweater sets, like all these things. She also doesn't have massive makeup. She has blush, lip.
00:13:15
Speaker
eyeliner mascara and her eyebrows probably have like maybe a little bit of tint, but there're they have like the the serum to like put them in shape. yeah And that's like all that you pick up, you know, like everything else is just for camera. And so it's not like super duper over the top. And it's just like, yeah, it feels like this I remember this time when not everybody was a skilled tradesperson. Basically, yeah, makeup artists. A makeup artist, because now so many people are. And yeah if you're asking, like God, why are you talking about this so much? It's because I want you to remember that we were we were not good at dressing ourselves a long time ago. And if you look at background in this movie, neither was anybody else. Honestly, like i I spent so much time looking at the background people in this movie and being like, that was me. Yes.
00:14:05
Speaker
100%. The person who kind of tried to do something and it didn't really work. Yes. Oh, God, yeah. like I even put it in my notes. In middle school, I was Kat, but I was trying to be Bianca in minutes. And then in high school, I was Kat and her best friend. Mandela. Mandela. Because It was a mix of like the camo. I remember going to a thrift store on hate and picking up a pair of camo pants that were like massive, but the waist measurement was was just fine and you could also like tighten it up. yeah um and Then I cut it into shorts. so I had camo shorts converse like i wore until because I had a bet going with a friend until they literally fell off my feet. The bet was who can go the longest before getting in.
00:14:54
Speaker
And mine were stapled together, glued together, taped together. They were disgusting. And like I would wear hoodies and tank tops. And like I also was the kid who wore t-shirts over sweatshirts.
Personal Style Evolution and Thrift Fashion
00:15:09
Speaker
That was a thing. and um Oh, God. Yeah. So it was like more on the cat side of things, yeah where I was more comfortable Like I would show like my collarbones and stuff, but I wasn't in like my shins. I'd wear shorts, but I wasn't like feeling at home wearing the things that Bianca wears, which are these like cutesy girly sets that are like very matching and very purposeful and like little kitten heels and all that stuff. like i little age day Like I gave that a shot and I was like, this feels crazy. And so where it turned into Mandela is like the first thing that comes to mind.
00:15:48
Speaker
I'm sorry that I need to talk about myself because this is therapy, apparently. So my hair was waist length. Wow. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to try and trying to make it look like it's not waist length. So I like did like a faux shortcut, yeah like by basically folding up my hair and then pinning it to Jesus, except that like you can see all the pins. I'm pretty sure. ahha but Yeah, terrible.
00:16:17
Speaker
And then this outfit, I'll never get over it, the Converse that I've named, um some low ankle socks, and this skirt that my mom got me from Chico's, which is a store meant for ladies in their 40s. Of a certain age. Of a certain age in italics. And um because she worked there and she got a discount, and this skirt was like a blush pink with bead, no sequins.
00:16:43
Speaker
Roses that were like gigantic all over it and it was it was very pretty and it was like a see-through it was kind of like the skirts the Bianca and Julia Stiles wear and an actor name ah and a character name. Bianca and Kat were in this, where it's like sort of tool over like a stretch. Like a solid, yeah. Yeah, it's like a stretch tool over a solid slip. And so it was kind of like that. And it wasn't handkerchief cut, but it wasn't like a flat cut. It had like a little bit of ah an edge to it. Oh, cute. And um over that, over that I wore pretty sure like a tank top, but the kicker,
00:17:23
Speaker
This like red orange bowling shirt that I got. Oh my God. With a yellow embroidery. With yellow embroidery. And then the earrings were from, also at an antique fair that were massive silver with like, amethyst. They were crazy. Oh my God. My like massive weird stupid.
00:17:54
Speaker
And also like beaded bracelets up to like the middle of my forearm and like a ring on each finger and like stacked necklaces because why be chill, right? Wow. And it's like that was my Mandela. Uh-huh. That sounds very Mandela. Right. And so it swung between that and like cat's uniform of like cozy pants and like some sort of tank top. I didn't do the crop the way the cat does. i am like No, I never did a crop. Yeah. yeah The crop was a the yeah that's a controversial. But like Cat, Cat Stratford, Julia Stiles, the shrew of the taming of the shrew, which is what this is an adaptation
Cultural Impact of Kat and Bianca
00:18:33
Speaker
of. right She was as iconic to our age group, I think, as Daria was.
00:18:40
Speaker
I wrote yes that the the sister relationship between Kat and Bianca is very similar to the Daria Quinn relationship dynamic in Daria, and that show was so important it to me personally. It was like we, i I'm not, I'm gonna speak collectively, I guess, but like we were essentially the Velmas, the Darias, the Cats. 100%. I'm not trying to do the putting hair behind my ear, we were just a little bit different. It's that that it's that like I just didn't know how to navigate social shit and so I just didn't care about certain things the same way that other people did. right And so I was like disaffected in that way. But I also cared because I was a teenager.
00:19:27
Speaker
I also just didn't know how to be, so it's like I'm sure that a lot of people, and it's still true now. My social skills are negligible most of the time, but it's like some people, I think, think that I'm an asshole because I don't necessarily know how to command my face. And if I'm not in the right place of being like, ah, I'm tuned in, I'm dialed in to like what we're doing right now, I don't know how to even operate my face right but yeah situation. So it's like very dead. And I'm also a very sarcastic person as we're a lot of friends of mine. So we all got this feeling where like, we know what that feels like to be that
00:20:02
Speaker
her. The people that are like, Oh, her. Yeah. the Oh, hers of the world. The Oh, hers of the world. And so it's like, Oh, she just like meant so much to me. And yeah, oh my god, her clothes. Another thing that I love, this is a general about cat Stratford is that she never has a makeover.
00:20:25
Speaker
And nobody's ever telling her that she's like, yeah, there are people who are like, oh, we hate her, but she's not, we're not ah to understand that. She doesn't change. No. And we're not to understand that there's anything wrong with her, that she's wearing pants more often than not, or that she has her hair down or in a messy bun or.
00:20:42
Speaker
Isn't wearing certain makeup and isn't wearing heels like there's nothing wrong and that's usually what we we're being told in movies is that no you have to have the makeover and in high school you have to go from being this person who is like whatever it is that you're doing she's all that is a perfect example and and then you have to become something that conforms.
Authenticity in Teenage Relationships
00:21:00
Speaker
It's like that's never really a source of the the different, like the sisters are different yeah and they acknowledge their differences and they're annoyed with each other all the time, but it's never tearing each other down fully.
00:21:15
Speaker
over what they're doing or how they're representing themselves. there's a There's a difference in understanding of each other because of it, because one sister doesn't get why the other cares so much and the other one cares and doesn't understand why the other one doesn't die care. yeah But like they feel like sisters in that. It's not like you're the worst person on the planet, but it is also like, I hate you. because you are Absolutely ruining my life But like it does feel like the only like if if there wasn't Pressure for them to like if there was an external pressure for them to get along They would just happily ignore each other. Yeah fine like I don't do it mean to like Hopefully the way that teen sisters would write like they don't have to be best friends But they obviously love each other and one is seeking to quietly protect the other one without telling her that or explaining it to her She's just doing it
00:22:10
Speaker
And so there's that dynamic, but I do love that neither one of them is wrong for how they are representing themselves through the way that they dress and carry themselves. Like yeah one is not being treated like you're the slut or you're the this. Like it's like, no, this is just you and we're different. And like i I do think that some of that might have to do with the fact that the movie was written by two women. like I do think that that has an impact. Oh, absolutely. Because there's a depth to it. if it was straight up If it was written by a guy who had no interest in actually representing female relationships. Yeah, they the way teenage girls really are. Yeah, there wouldn't be any depth to it. It would be really black and white. And this is like caddy. Yeah, that's not that deep all the time. Like they do have a couple of fights that hit hard, but like it's not that deep. It's just like, ah you're so gross. You're so gross. And I love. So let's talk about costume and character. okay Let's so do it. Let's do it. That's what we're here for. This is what we're here for. So we have our two sisters, Kat Stratford, Bianca Stratford. Yeah. And as we've talked about, Kat Stratford is is more like, if you were to be like lazy and talking about it, kind of like dress like tomboyish where she's not, she's not going alt. Yeah. A little alt. Yeah. Like she's, she's much more of like a ah going to bars and seeing cool indie bands.
00:23:41
Speaker
Yeah, which like what kind of cool teen gets to do that like that was so aspirational and like absolutely insane to think that that could happen. It was wild and like when I was in high school, we did have a thing called the Oasis.
00:23:58
Speaker
And bands came through and like we could go and it was a non-alcoholic venue that was meant for teens and it like had regular concerts and I think this went on for at least a year and it was like really cool, but it wasn't as cool. and No, I mean like nothing's ever as cool as the movie version. of It was like a black box.
00:24:18
Speaker
you know, where there's like a tiny step up that was the stage. And like, it was a great, awesome rat experience. And there was like a courtyard where you can hang out if you didn't want to watch the the bands, like that kind of stuff. But it wasn't like this thing where there are people drinking and then underage people who are not drinking. And then Like a bar and like yeah a cool show like I didn't know that you could do that I'm still I'm still kind of I still kind of don't believe that you can like I'm not convinced It was just like God you're so cool and like oh, it's so effortless and she drove that awesome car and The idea of having like a classic car as like a teenage girl, it was just like, well, this is just pure fantasy. Like this could never ever happen. Cool though. And like one thing that that I am not totally on board with with her look. Yeah. And it's for purely practical reasons is the like platform flip flops that she wears.
00:25:15
Speaker
Did you read anything about the costumes in this? I did. I think we've probably read the same article. It has limited supply, so yes. I think we did. But I will say that my objection to the flip flops is mostly just that the climate of the region does not support wearing flip flops like that so much. The climate of Seattle, as portrayed in this film, is a long way. Might as well be Los Angeles. Might as well. Because Seattle is famously wet.
00:25:45
Speaker
And as someone who lived there for four years, I can tell you that it is quite moist and wet for much of the year. It's like the toes would be cold as hell. And it's like we all did this thing where we wore aspirational clothes to school for sure. Of course. Yeah, I'll just shove my actual shit in the locker and then I'll wear like whatever it is that I want because in school it's going to be heated or maybe it'll be heated or at least it won't be as cold as it is outside. Right.
00:26:13
Speaker
But yeah, having to wear platform sandals. Also, I had a pair of those once. On a hot day, if your feet are in any way moist, you're taking your life into your own hands, and that's all I want to say. Those escalators, don't love it. It's not a good combo. don't It was interesting to read how the costume designer of this, yeah by the name of Kimberly A. Tillman, um Thank you for your work, Kimberly A. Tillman.
Costume Design Insights and Character Development
00:26:42
Speaker
Did I have to scroll up on IMDB so that I could actually get the phone? Yes, I did. yeah um But Ms. Tillman, ah the shoes were
00:26:51
Speaker
regular flip-flops, right? that or No, they weren't regular. They were like um they were the bamboo flip-flops and she attached them to foam so that they would be slightly different and also to keep the the original ah together because they weren't necessarily going to last through filming. They apparently were kind of a big deal to like some of the execs who were watching stuff back and were like, why We don't why know we don't yes which like I mean, I'm kind of on their side a little bit, um but I respect the the individuality. I would have not known that they were made for the movie because they look great. They do look good. And I was also like familiar with those existing. Thank you, Spice Girls. um because Oh my God. The the platform shoes we of that era. They were a thing.
00:27:39
Speaker
I had clear sparkle platform jelly sandals. Oh my God, jellies. I had when I was like six or seven and when they came back the first time, I was like, those things were so weird because they made your feet so sweaty. like what They're horrible. They're so uncomfortable.
00:28:02
Speaker
Mine were like a strappy sandal, like they were open back. Yeah. I had some like really weird clothing pieces that I just like, I have to say thank you to my parents for buying me because I'm sure that I asked for all of the stuff and they're probably like, this is insane. You should not wear that. And they let me wear it anyway. So I appreciate them for that. Yeah. So there's the pair of shoes, which was like phenomenal. Yeah, so iconic. I noticed a lot. She stays in a very cool color palette the entire movie. It's like blue. Every once in a while you'll get some green, you'll get some purple and obviously like black, but like that was kind of it. Yeah, there's the cream and a little bit of red. And so like true those things and ah obviously the blue for. Yeah.
00:28:52
Speaker
that But yeah, it's pretty like chill and the story of her costumes is pretty great because it's pretty subtle and it's like very effective and it's kind of the same with Bianca where it's not as loud and over the top as it could be. but yes There's another um online article that kind of talks about this too where It's in the article, I would like to shout it out. I also had these thoughts, but if you would like to read this written by Shelby Fitchett on LaTonic.com or .news, my god i care latonnique dot news ah she's also going to talk about what I'm going to talk about, which is how the costumes are reflecting characters throughout.
00:29:37
Speaker
And I'm not going to necessarily go into the same language as the article does, but what's nice is that Bianca is not as loud as she could be. Like she could be like way share from clueless. Like she could super go that far. yeah But it's like she's after that. And so it's a little bit more relaxed. and um But it's still very like I have matching sweater sets to everything I own and everything I do is deliberate and tool and ballet, like romantic. It's very romantic, aspirational, delicate.
00:30:14
Speaker
and um And so it's very it's very like naive. like It's like a little girl's idea of being a princess or being a ballerina. And like she's a younger sister, so she's um a sophomore and right ink cat's a senior yeah I think So Bianca is very much just like at the beginning of her high school career and she's like, Popular but she hasn't she's not apex predator because she's still a baby. Yeah, she's trying to make a name for herself. basically And so the name for herself in the in the misogynist way is that the guys look at her and they're like virgin alert. Yeah, they're like, Oh, gross. The one that we're gonna match our bedpost to. Right. And which I was just like, I hate it. And it's also like, yeah, that's what that's what teenage boys talk about. ye Yep. Yep. It's just, you know, but it's a it's a gauntlet. and So she's just like very sweet. Everything that she has on her is very sweet. But also like that
00:31:13
Speaker
heading into maturing. So like lengths are not always super long. They're a little bit shorter because she's like getting ah a more grown up body and she's not like ashamed of anything about herself. right And so, but what's funny is that like, she usually has like, I mean, they all have many different um necklines.
00:31:32
Speaker
But she is mostly in like boatnecks. Yes. And then Kat on the other hand is a little bit more restrained where she is not restrained like conservative. It's just that she favors pants that are loose and comfy and she has these like comfy knit tank tops that are cropped and like they're more often than not spaghetti straps. Cause she's just like more simple, just just like simple go with the flow. Like this is easy and I like it. yeah And she'll, she also has cardigans, but she also has like a leather jacket that she throws on. She's got like stainless steel jewelry, which I had that necklace in high school. yeah I think that when you had that I had puka shells. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. Mine was actually, hers is like a almost a choker. Mine was a little bit longer, but yeah it was definitely from Hot Topic. Yeah, it was. And so it's like she has this more like things go together, but they go together because they're a part of her wardrobe. They look like things that she has bought over time. They're not like these little curated.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah, like she can pull from anywhere and she'll like things that go together. Right. And we do see a couple, there's a couple of times where we see pieces repeated in different combinations with her and it does, it all works together. It all works together. It's all very coordinated. And what I like too is that They're not trying to say that she's rejecting everything that Bianca stands for all of the romantic little things where they're like beaded applique and like sequins or anything like that because on Kat's cardigans there's massive beautiful beaded details. It's like like great her version of it but it's still there. She also has that
00:33:16
Speaker
romantic romantic little bits that show through her clothing. But for her, it's more restrained because she is more restrained based on a story that she tells her sister towards the end of the movie, which is that she had this experience with the guy that her sister is trying to go after. And it really made her feel like shit. And so she just kind of like pulled back into herself a little bit because she doesn't trust people.
00:33:38
Speaker
And so it's just it's not that one sister isn't romantic or doesn't have any aspirations to love or romance or anything like that. It's that she does. It's just not as um young or naive. Yeah, it's not as capital R romantic. It's not as idealized. It's not as idealized. That's what it is. It's a little bit weightier.
00:34:04
Speaker
visually because it's not on the warmer color spectrum all the time. There's like a scene towards the end of the movie where Bianca's like, I'm sad and I'm disappointed. and There's this shot of Kat watching her out the bedroom window and Bianca sitting in a tire swing. We've seen her like an hour before in different clothing. yeah and so She's like changed into an outfit in order to pout.
00:34:34
Speaker
Is it? No, I think it might be a different day. I think it might actually be like the twilight sitting in the chair for the months as the camera goes around here. Because Kat is wearing pajama pants and a black tank top. I think that Kat is also wearing something different. That ruins my whole thing. But like, let's be real, even if it was the same day, it's still the same level of drama that she puts on this entire head to toe outfit and she's not going anywhere. She's just going outside to sit on the entire swing. And it's like, she's in like, Black Mary Janes with like, little sweetheart socks. and a white like chiffon skirt with like a pink cardigan. like I wrote in my notes that she looks like Darla from The Little Rascals. She totally does. like she just she really like Her color palette is so sweet and like bright and warm, and she's like still stuck. and like Her dad her dad is just this thing. We did a psychology podcast to talk about the dad. We really do. Oh my God. He's trying to be a responsible parent as a as a doctor who sees teen pregnancy. He's like, I'm not having this yeah with you guys. yeah I've seen the cost. But like he makes them wear like a pregnant belly any time they think about going to the state. I love that pregnant belly. Oh, it's so funny. And the timing of it is amazing.
00:35:59
Speaker
Like, the added level of trauma that, like, their mom has walked out on them. Oh, yeah. They're both angry. Oh, my God. Like, there's so much dysfunction in their family. There is, but they also, like, do love each other. But it is, like, so weird that their dad is like, neither of you can date. Like, and then it becomes, well, you can date once Kat does. And he's like, yes, I nailed it. Like, She's never going to do anything. I figured it out. He is just trying to like, and he says it towards the end of the movie where he's like, Bianca still lets me parent her. Whereas you stopped letting me make those calls a long time ago. So he's trying to keep his youngest daughter as a little girl.
00:36:44
Speaker
to a lot of points and like the elder daughter is like, please get over yourself and just walks away. Whereas the youngest daughter like is like, okay, but daddy, she's like, no daddy, no, is like her vibe throughout the whole movie. so that's like That's totally represented in how she dresses. Everything has a tinge of girlhood that's still there. And by the end of the movie, it does feel like she she isn't trying to fight that as much. like she's not She's like, yeah, I am a teenage girl. like Maybe I'm not ready for whatever the hell this guy was ready for. like yeah Cameron is more my speed, because I do want that innocent. Let's go to the drive-in. Hold hands.
00:37:25
Speaker
Cameron's not as like, Joey's boring. Like, and I feel like that that I appreciate that that is like his downfall is that he's just fundamentally uninteresting to be around like he's not fun to be around like I mean, he's gross, obviously, and he shows his hand in terms of how gross he is. But like I don't think that anything gives her the ick as much as how boring he is. like You see it happen over the course of the movie. And he just talks about himself like constantly. He has no interest in her. So she's not a part of his story, and she recognizes that pretty early on, which is pretty great. yeah But like it's also like the way that Joey dresses is pretty boring. like He dresses like a dad. I know. It's like he thinks that he looks like a gap model. Yes, he does. But it's like if that era where gap models looked like dads. Yeah. And then like Cameron, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, is dressing like the only thing that's missing from the introductory scene where he comes in, where he's wearing a t-shirt and then like an open plaid shirt over that. It's not a plaid, but it's like it's like a pattern. I think it's like a Hawaiian kind of feeling thing. The only thing that's missing is like a skateboard under one arm and a back. Literally. Literally.
00:38:39
Speaker
And I'm glad that those things aren't there because he just feels like a very like a kind of nerdy like sweet kid, but also one who's pretty damn comfortable with himself. I think that's what I admire the most about this movie is that all of these characters are comfortable in their bodies. Like they get nervous and they're like, do I look good? But they're not like,
00:39:00
Speaker
Oh, I wish I looked like that guy or whatever. Like each person has their own developed personality and their own developed look.
Supporting Characters: Fashion and Personality
00:39:07
Speaker
And that was super aspirational as a 12 year old to be like, will I be like that in high school? No. Understand myself and be like confident and secure with who I am. Cause it's like Cameron's like a little bit nerdy, but he's secure in himself. yeah But he is also a psychopath because he sets off this hole.
00:39:24
Speaker
situation. Oh, but it's Joseph Gordon love it. So it's fun and charming. It's just so fun and charming to do that. And, you know, I appreciate that because like, I love the this scene where, where Cameron and Michael are talking to Patrick and they're like, hmm, like bad news for you, like cats, pretty, like pretty guys. And he just like gives him this look and he's like, are you trying to tell me that I'm not pretty?
00:39:54
Speaker
And it's like it's so obvious too that their fundamental understanding of what that even means is different because they're younger and they're more um conservative in a lot of ways than he is anyway. So it's like it's also just like a great little mini lesson of like subjectivity. And also, the hair is like a big hurdle for for the prettiness of Heath Ledger. i mean like I can't imagine looking at Heath Ledger in this era and not thinking that he's pretty, but like yeah he's not he doesn't look like Joey.
00:40:29
Speaker
He's not polished. He doesn't have that model slash like somehow looks like a MBA like business student. Like he looks so weird in this movie with his weird suit. He wears a suit to a kegger. Like that's weird. The amount of blazers at the kegger, the house party is crazy. And it's like, I actually really love like cats outfit for that scene. Cause it's like,
00:40:56
Speaker
blue pants that almost seem like they have like a velveteen texture to it, which is probably wrong. But they seem like still they have like a leopard pants. There's some kind of there's like black blue, like a changing and tone on tone. Yeah, there's something going on there. Great. And like the color of her sweater and her tank top are these like muted warm tones and they look really great on Julia Stiles. And then she has the leather Is that where she has the leather jacket like thrown over? Yeah. And so she just has this really cool, like I don't give a fuck. like I'm not going to wear a different outfit than I've been wearing all day. like Let's just fucking go to this party. Yeah. And and she's just like cool. So cool. It's not saying that none of these characters are meant, that we're not meant to be perceiving as
00:41:42
Speaker
They don't care about what they wear. It's like, obviously they do, but you get the sense that Cat Stratford has, like we talked about before, curated her wardrobe. so that she doesn't have to care about each item. She can just blindly pick one, throw it on and know that she likes it. And then it goes with the rest of her stuff. Right. Instead of like pre-setting her outfit the way that I'm sure Bianca does every single day. Yeah. And it's not like she doesn't have like a sense of like occasion. Like we see her. Oh no. Obviously like, obviously we see her in the prom dress, but like even when they, when she's at the club, like seeing letters to Cleo play, she's just like a little like strapless. And she looks beautiful and great, but it's like, she knows how to dress up. It's just her version of that is different. Totally. And it's just like one that is less, it takes maybe less time for her to yeah go through shit because she knows what she has. Yeah. yeah
00:42:33
Speaker
And and um this makes me go straight over to, like, the best friends. So Bianca's best friend is Chastity, played by Gabrielle Union, ah who is, like, chastity flawless and a little bit evil. And perfect also Mandela, who I did not look up the actress's name. I am so sorry. Oh, I did. And it's out of my head. I forgot. But Mandela is Cat Stratford's ah Best friends so they're the older ones and Mandela is obsessed. So that's Susan May Pratt. She's obsessed with Shakespeare. That's like borderline delusional Absolutely delusional. What are we talking about? Like she's like I'm i'm obsessed with him romantically and so she has this like
00:43:19
Speaker
whimsy. It's almost like whimsy goth, but she's not actually representing any of the goth. It's just that like alternative. I thought it was kind of like, I think it's Elizabethan inspired. Oh, no, totally. It's Elizabethan, but it's also like it is also a bit goth. Yeah, it's just that I just don't care so much about what you think I should be wearing. The Venn diagram of where the people that are kind of goth and the people that go to the Renaissance Fair overlap. Yeah, it's the vampires. Yeah, the stores where you can buy clothes that work for both occasions. That is the wardrobe. And it's like, she could also be crafting some of this. Some of it could come from thrift stores and be from like 60s stuff because there's the seams. It definitely looks like some vintage pieces are in there.
00:44:01
Speaker
like the granny square crocheted bodice, lace up in front, which is fantastic. And this is actually the first time I realized it was crochet. I think I just interpreted it as something completely different before. And I was like, that's fantastic. And she's got like white lacy stuff that she wears. And it's like, she's got like knee high, like chestnut suede laced up. And the jacket that she's wearing with those boots is also like a chestnut color with just like all this stuff going on.
00:44:31
Speaker
Like she just has this very unique sense of style that is pretty loud compared to some of the other folks because it's very much like, oh, this comes from a fantastical place in your brain. um And I love that for her. And then on the other side, we've got Chastity who is, I want to say also an aspiring like super popular girl because she's gorgeous. And like everything she wears is like very on point. Perfectly picked. Yeah.
00:44:59
Speaker
And in the house party scene at Bogeyland scenes, I was losing my goddamn mind because of the amount of stripes, but specific stripes. So the dress the chastity is wearing front and back has, I almost want to say, and I didn't write down the colors, so I might be incorrect here, but it was like a black and purple, I think. I think you're right. Purple was like this very squiggly. It was like a wine, yeah. Yeah, it was a very squiggly design. Yeah, it was like an abstract floral kind of thing. And then the black was the background. But on her sides, the side streams were sports stripes. The sports stripes on everything that the scroll wears. And they were just like at the house party.
00:45:44
Speaker
right when you see like the cameras like panning through the house and you see the DJ has set up right behind him there's this girl dancing and she's wearing like a short ah tank like ribbed knit dress and it's got the three stripes that kind of bleed together across the chest and that style was everywhere the number of garments that i had at this time that had like just a couple stripes like across the chest like i it's like oh it was it's like it was a rejection of hawaiian shirts
00:46:20
Speaker
and things that had like busy, busy, busy textures. like right the ribnit like The amount of what can we do with stripes in the 90s at that point of the 90s was like so boring.
00:46:37
Speaker
It was so boring and yet it it was like so cool. I know, but it was like, what are we doing? And then at the same time, there were also the Hawaiian shirts that had big blown out flowers all over the place. Absolutely. And so it was just like, what about geometric stuff? like That isn't just lines never heard of her any other stuff that we could be doing that isn't tie-dye Like I don't know. I don't think there no, I don't think there's any other patterns on textiles. I don't know But yeah, like Gabrielle Union Chastity is just like she is kind of more like a
00:47:15
Speaker
a more adult Bianca.
The Evolution of 90s Denim
00:47:17
Speaker
She's more self-aware, I think. She's more self-aware. She's way less naive, and she's very aware of what Joey is doing to Bianca, and she uses that. She wields that as a weapon, which is unfortunate to have the girl versus girl instead of just being friends. That sucks.
00:47:34
Speaker
but um she is very much like, no, I'm gonna be popular and I'm gonna do the things that I need to do to get that. And like, if you're not willing to do that, that's fine. She's just older in a way. And so you see that represented in how she's dressed and like how her hair is done. Cause her hair is flawless.
00:47:52
Speaker
throughout. It's, it's straightened to the gods. Yeah, she has natural hair. So it would have been cool to see more variety there. But this again was again, with the 90s in which that was, yeah, that was just not a happening. Yeah, which sucks. But Gabrielle Union looked beautiful. I mean, like that she's he I feel like what else do you need me to say? because She's insanely beautiful. There's nothing else to even mention about it. oh And so, okay, can we talk about background for a second? The first thing I noticed, of course, was the denim. This was the time before all jeans were stretch jeans.
00:48:35
Speaker
Absolutely. like This is the last moment. to Stretch jeans were not a thing that I was exposed to until I think regularly like freshman year because they existed, I think. Well, okay, maybe not necessarily stretch jeans. but like And I could be remembering this wrong because I remember in middle school, 1999, I had stretch pants, but they were all plaids. or khaki and like Dickies were a big deal and those were not stretch, except that they did come out with a girl cut.
00:49:12
Speaker
low rise and those had stretch, but like stretch denim was not what we know it to be now. It didn't exist in this way. Your jeans were made of 100% cotton. Yes. And like, cause when you think of stretch denim now, you think like old Navy or you can name anything. Any a pair of jeans that you buy now is going to have some elastin woven into the textile so that that there's a little bit of give, yeah which it was it was crucial technology in order for skinny jeans to exist at all. 100%. Because they couldn't they're not possible without it. It's like like straight, legit jeans, which have come back. you know like People are thrifting them, people are keeping them and doing like really good maintenance to keep them and all that stuff. but like and Now, I never had jeans that were like this, because we did have looser cuts when we were in middle school, and that's what you can see represented in this movie. There are no skinny jeans.
00:50:13
Speaker
all of They didn't exist yet. They did not exist. And so a lot of the clothes, there's a lot of tight clothes, but there's a lot of loose fit stuff too because that's just what existed. Yeah. Like at the time, oh, like in the 80s wasn't, it and before, but like in the 80s wasn't a big thing that people would like put on their jeans.
00:50:32
Speaker
and then go sit in warm water or cold water or something so that it would like relax to the shape of your body. And that's how you had like, I've never heard of anyone like confirming that people did that, but I know I feel like that's part of the conversation, but like I need someone who experienced that era to like confirm that that's what people i need to talk to my birth mother about it. Cause she was a teenager in the eighties and I feel like maybe I'm misremembering this, but I feel like she was one of those people who talked about how she had to like lay down and then get a tool to pull up the zipper. Yeah, because they were so tight. But it's like clothes were interactive in a slightly different way than they are now, where the objective was not
00:51:17
Speaker
comfort was to look a certain way to be an item that exists potentially lasts for more than six months and so i was just like oh my god like i remember the time of these pants all of these pants. I do too, but I was like pretty fast personally to adopt the like resurgence of the bell-bottom jeans. Oh god, the flares. In this era, I only wore flared jeans in this era. That was sixth and seventh grade was flared jeans. And it's like, I don't even know what I wore when I was younger than that because like flared jeans was it. And then I think I started to like buy high school. I was like skinny jeans. I don't want to have to think about anything else. But skinny jeans weren't a thing in Sonoma County until I was in college. They did not exist in high school. You had straight leg, but they were not skinny jeans. It was still boot cut and it was still low rise until college. Yeah, I might be wrong on my timeline here too because I think it was maybe like
00:52:24
Speaker
Yeah, when I was in college, like 1819 that it was like skinny jeans because I would go to overnight fitters and get a specific brand. But before that, it was probably like yesterday or boot cut.
00:52:35
Speaker
like things because they were tighter. They did not have a wide hem. They did not. You didn't have to have a wide hem, but yeah, they I feel like the the tight ankle had not occurred. Yeah, but like tighter than flare or a bell bottom. Definitely. Yeah. Those were around for sure. Wide flare bell bottoms, anytime it rained,
00:52:57
Speaker
Oh, it was disgusting. The end of the world, because you were wet up to your knees and because it was whatever it was. Dirty, chewed up, frayed hems of your pants driving through puddles. And did I do it every single day? Yes, I did. Because that's just what you did. That was like how you knew you were cool. Oh my God. So there's just so much here, like also the jewelry.
00:53:22
Speaker
Yeah. The jewelry. We haven't even hit. So I want to rewind to the very first scene. One of the very first people we see in this movie is Allison Janney. And God bless Allison Janney. As the guidance counselor. Just absolutely an HR nightmare. Ms. Perky. Like everything about her is like this is like the opportunity that they had to be very heightened because her hair is like shellacked like lasagna pasta with a little bit of a curl like right at the end in just sheets. It's so wild. Her clothes are like straight Nancy Reagan. Oh my God, knit skirt suit. But the kicker is that immediately, Pearl Necklace. Absolutely. Pearls are very present in this movie. And with Ms. Perky, it's 100 percent a nod to the fact that she's writing a dirty novel. Yeah, it is.
00:54:21
Speaker
Then when it was persistent with the girls, I was like, okay, well, we have their mom's pearl necklace. Okay, I see that. yeah But then it just like kept being the thing where it's like, we're not going to have any other kind of necklace. It's all going to be pearls. Like Kat has this like Celtic knot. Yeah.
00:54:38
Speaker
that she wears but Bianca wears a lot of pearls like she has another necklace it's like spaced out like yeah girls and so it's like Bianca has this kind of like it's very cute it's like a very like almost like 60s sensibility with 90s clothes where which was definitely a thing yeah it's oh my god are you kidding that was yikes when I was 13 I cut my hair And I was like, mom, can you teach me how to style my hair the way you style your hair in the sixties? And she was like, this is ridiculous. I don't want to fucking do it. me how to Like use curlers to get the curl out of my hair and to straighten it and to do like that little perky ball. wow wow And I did it once and because of my hair, it immediately
00:55:21
Speaker
but second I hit the outside world. But it's like, yeah, that was a thing. That was a big thing at the time, was 60s nods. But yeah, Ms. Perky just like took me out every time we see her. She's way over the top.
00:55:36
Speaker
There are so many things that are referenced and that happened in this movie where you're like, that's bad. yes That is not a good thing to happen to a teenager. That is bad. But it's all like treated very like, ah whatever. It was like, this is objectively like not cool and everyone's being very blase.
Kat and Patrick's Relationship Dynamics
00:55:59
Speaker
and In that way, it felt historically accurate where people were just like, we don't really care.
00:56:05
Speaker
That felt right to me. Yeah. Oh, we haven't talked about Patrick. Yes. So Heath Ledger himself was a dream boat. Naturally. And like in this movie, it was, he was like more recognizable to me and like the, the school system, like the people that I saw. Right. Where he felt like,
00:56:33
Speaker
what I was seeing when I'd go past the high school, like those guys that were like, I don't care, you know? Like, yeah they had not discovered product. They had discovered cigarettes and weed. They had one black v-neck shirt that they wore every day. One black v-neck, one tank top. like yeah um They were aware of who they were. And they were like, I'm not going to dress it up. You can see it. And he has, especially in this scene when he sings. I can't take my eyes which is just like, oh my God. But it's like the most fantasy sequence that like a teenage teenager would do that and pull it off. I think that it would be romantic. I think that it's also so great for the audience that was watching it because it felt like Patrick and Kat were equals.
00:57:32
Speaker
yeah where yes it felt like when they had conversations, they were actually talking to each other, not over each other. And that when he did that, he understood, I see that you want things like this, but that you don't necessarily want to say that. And that you also want it to feel like a joke.
00:57:52
Speaker
like right and you want the story of it. You want me to humiliate myself just a little bit. 100%. You want to watch me run around and get caught by the security guards. Yeah. But like you you do want someone to say, I want you and to say it loudly. Yeah. And I want you No matter what you are who you are like he could see that and over the course of the movie you just kinda like see their maturity like in sync and cuz they are more mature in some ways than most of the other characters they have a groundedness to them but they're both in these like teen plots that are ridiculous. right And so they are like constrained by their their timing essentially and like where they are in life. But they're like older than the other characters because they're actually talking to each other. And like yeah we have the offset with Cam and Bianca and Cam is just like putting Bianca on this massive pedestal and she's like, yuck, I don't like that. Yeah. Who are you? And like, what what is this? But like slowly realizing that he's a sweet guy, he's just doing too much. And then him realizing that he needs to stop doing so much because she actually is a human person. Right. He should actually maybe like get to know her for who she is. And so it's like just i that scene with the singing is so frigging great. So great. And he's wearing this jacket that was a thing for me.
00:59:17
Speaker
in the 2000s, and I still have it. I had two versions. I had a heavy winter one and just an everyday one, and I used to wear a jacket that was very close to this. It was a zipper though. It had the top pockets. It had the bottom pockets. It was a zipper with like a flap that snapped, and it had a ah hood that like rolled up into the collar.
00:59:42
Speaker
ah So when the hood was rolled up, it looked very much like this jacket that Heath Ledger was wearing. And I was like, did I? I think this is where I saw that style of jacket and went, that's cool. That's cool. I want that. I also really appreciate in that scene and like we see it a couple of times because Kat is on the soccer team. That's like part of her thing in high school. And I appreciate that the soccer uniforms look realistic and not cute. Yes. And the same thing with the PE uniforms. Those are not cute. They are not cute, but they do look like what PE uniforms looked like at that time. And I really appreciate that because I feel like that's something that happens a lot in movies. Like I'm in my head, I'm picturing the PE scene from Mean Girls. Yeah.
01:00:29
Speaker
and how the like cute popular girls have like changed their PE e clothes to more form-fitting and like shorter and thinner and like all that stuff. and like we don't And we get that type of thing a lot in in movies where it's like uniforms usually are not super flattering, whether it's sports or like a work uniform. And so like movies will cheat a little bit. Oh, movies cheat because they're also like Wes Anderson-ing things where they're curating the world so much. They want it to look a certain way. They want it to be beautiful. They want it to be aspirational, whatever, whatever. This one looked accurate, and I appreciated that. It made everyone look like a real high school. A hundred percent, and like that's the thing about this movie. We watch Coolest and we go, okay, well, there were parts of the 90s that were super represented here.
01:01:19
Speaker
yeah that belong in like a specific area and a specific time and was not everybody's experience, but this was a specific time. We watch Empire Records and we see something more recognizable to more of the world and that's where this lies, is that this one is really close to reality where it's not, also Empire Records has like a limited number of people that you see, so you're not seeing a wide variety of stuff, but like yeah this this movie,
01:01:48
Speaker
totally, like everybody, the popular people, the people who are less popular or whatever, there's a reality in there where it's like, yes, I can point to anybody on screen and go, this is what this year looked like. It's like, or these couple of years at the end of the 90s, this is what it looked like. These are what the haircuts looked like. This is what the skincare looks like. this is lack thereof And it's just like, it's so cool that it, it looked so cool when watching it as a kid. And then, cause it was like, God, you guys are doing it right. And then like me realizing later, like, Oh, I just hated all the fabrics that all of these clothes are made up. But like some early synthetic fabrics happening at this time. It's like not obviously not like polyester from the seventies, but not that far.
01:02:36
Speaker
not The technology was not that advanced past that. These were stretchy but rigid in a way that I can't explain. Can we talk about the music in this movie for just like a hot second? Yeah.
01:02:51
Speaker
I was so obsessed with the music. and I had the soundtrack to this movie and I listened to it all the time. Yeah, you were listening to this while I was listening to the soundtrack of Romeo and Juliet. Yes, I was. I like owned multiple letters to Cleo albums because of this movie.
01:03:09
Speaker
Like it took me, it wasn't immediate, it took me like a couple years to like be like, oh, this is a real band and I could just buy their album instead of thinking about it as like, oh, this is a band that exists in
Nostalgia: Music and Prom Experiences
01:03:21
Speaker
the movie. But like, I also have to include the anecdote that um so one of the bands, the band that plays at prom in this movie is a band called Save Ferris, which is a reference to Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
01:03:32
Speaker
And I saw them perform not that long ago because I went with Jonathan to see Madness, which is a British band that like kind of invented Scott. I remember you telling me when you were going to see that. Yeah, yeah so Save Ferris opened for them. and It was great because it's this the same woman, but I think a lot of the musicians are not like the original members of the band anymore, but like she is still there. She sounds incredible live, number one. She could just belt, it's incredible. But she talked about being in 10 Things I Hate About You come on man during the concert.
01:04:14
Speaker
It was great. Come on. This movie feels like it has a little bit of something for everybody, and it has one thing that nobody wants, which is just a heads up. In a scene where the sisters are fighting towards the beginning of the movie in the house about dating, ah Bianca lays out a real loud slur, like just real quick.
01:04:36
Speaker
It's an odd word that is real loud. And so just a heads up, it is a product. I know that it's like sex to hear this phrase, but it was a product of its time. And you have to recognize that if you're going to take in certain media, um, yeah doesn't mean have to be okay with it, but it was there. And to be aware that it happened, it was in there. yeah Um, but like everything else beyond that,
01:05:01
Speaker
It's just like there's a lot of positive memory association with this movie, including with the clothes, even though I hated but so many of the clothes. When we were growing up, like this, there's just something here where there's like a softness to it. There was also kind of like a connection, like a visual connection between Kat and Patrick throughout the movie. When they were like in sweeter moments, their costumes like really work together. They're not like so,
01:05:32
Speaker
coordinated that it's like, you know, parents at Disneyland, but like, right they're in the same world together. Like at the house party, Bogie, Bogie Lowenstein's famous house party, um, their color palettes are like pretty close and the same at the end of the movie.
01:05:48
Speaker
I loved that like right after the crying poem she goes out to the car finds her fender like that he bought for her in her driver's seat which by the way brave leaving your windows down all day and then putting like a very expensive guitar in there 100% like in Seattle. But like, just the rain alone, the threat of rain alone. There is no way, no one would ever know that it has ever rained in that city watching this movie. I mean, this is so true. It seems like it's so Cal, it's really weird.
01:06:24
Speaker
But like she matches that guitar in that scene because the sweater that we have seen before, which is the off-white one with the embroidery, she's wearing that and like this like deep red, crimson-y kind of skirt. And he's in the same family, of course.
01:06:44
Speaker
when he comes in and so it's like they just have this like shiny future ahead of them of like making cool music and he has the best line ever where she's like you can't just buy me shit every time you fuck up and he's like well There's always like, I don't even remember the order of it, but there's always drums. Drums and a bass and maybe one day, even a tambourine. So cute. It's so cute. And it's just like, I just, I love this movie because it felt like there was something for everybody.
01:07:20
Speaker
the cutesy popular girl isn't being told that she's a bad person for yeah wanting to be cutesy popular. She's just finding a better way to do it for herself. And the boy who's going after her is finding out, no, I have to actually look at her as a person.
01:07:35
Speaker
and then the girl who's not as sociable is like, I can relax a little bit because I'm leaving and I'm going to the college that I want to go to. And I'm And not a bad person for not wanting to do all this high school shit. Right. And Mandela and Michael kind of end up together out of nowhere. Which is very Shakespearean. That is very Shakespearean. It is very Shakespearean. But it's like he very much threw that down pretty early. He understood her. He looked into that locker. He saw Shakespeare. He's like, so that's your guy. And she's like, that's my man. And then he starts quoting sonnets at her. And she's like, you get it. So he started laying that early. That is true.
01:08:19
Speaker
And then also like very bold to buy somewhat a prom dress we have to talk about the prom so like yeah Mandela opens her locker and there's a dress inside that is like if It's like a dress that would have been in Camelot, the excuse Camelot. I was thinking more like the Zephirelli Romeo and Juliet. It could have been a myth. It's the Empire Waste version of the Renaissance idea. It's just so, and it it feels like, I mean, there's just no, there's very minimal. It's like sour apple green and tomato orange red. Oh, weird.
01:08:59
Speaker
And it's not perfect, but it's so weird. It's so theatrical is what it is. Like it seems like it was made for a stage because of the colors, but there's also no like... accessory or it's very minimal. There's like a little bit of courting. Yes. But it's very, very minimal thing. And then in script, it's basically like for my girl, it's like, Oh my God. And then he shows up dressed like Davy Jones. I've said Austin Powers. Also Davy Jones. And he's got a pompadour, like a little baby pompadour. He's like rockabilly Austin Powers. draped in velvet. With like just the most going on. He's got like a lace, like cravat. And cuffs. And cuffs. It's so great. And the updos. The updos for the prom. They are up. Where everything is slicked and then curled. Those updos are up. It's Irish step dance hair. It's just like a ringlets. Yeah. At the back of your head. And I'm like, okay, I don't believe that Kat did that to her hair at home.
01:10:08
Speaker
I'm sorry. Cause like, this is the first time that we would have seen her put in hours worth and of effort, which is not saying that she's not able to. It's that she has that much hair that it would take that fricking long. yeah So why wouldn't she go? So I don't understand, but like it was such a thing to have that up do like yikes. And so like cat is wearing, everybody's wearing something that is perfect for them. That is hundred percent. It's like so just nails it where she's wearing a slip dress and they're like the the singer of Letter Cicleo is wearing a slip dress that is awesome and she has this like crazy updo with butterfly clips everywhere. The perfect like cornflower blue tone of that dress is just
01:10:55
Speaker
And like the cut like everything and I know it's so good on her. I know. And I know from um from reading the article that that her dress and Bianca's dresses were custom designed and yeah made for the movie. We know that. And Bianca's dress. Another thing about that is like that was very cool to have that like cropped top. Two piece. The two piece the top and then the tool skirt. Like that was a really cool look. Did you read about the actual top and like how it fit?
01:11:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's a heartbreaker. I know, but it's like when you see it at the prom, you see it tight, but like they were filming at the house when everybody's leaving for prom, right? And that was the last opportunity that that they had to film in the house. So the designer was not able to finish taking in the bodice that Bianca is wearing. So in the house, it's super loose and baggy is the word. It's really baggy. Yeah. like the The neckline and everything looks done. Yes. But it's like at the sides, it's not just not tapered or taken in. I think there's like a princess. it like yeah It's just not done. It's not completed. Yeah. and so But what it effectively does, because of course before,
01:12:07
Speaker
When I was watching this as a kid, I never noticed. like No, I didn't notice that as a kid. What I do notice now is that it doesn't scre- Like, I see it and I understand that it's not done because I read that the costume designer said it was not done. And then I, knowing that, see the next scene that she's in and I see it taken in and I see, ah, yes. But what it effectively does is it shows you Bianca looking like the age she is.
01:12:36
Speaker
It's the first time that she's not trying to look older and it's not super taken... you know like It's the way that like a little kid would wear this outfit where it's not super tight in any way. It's not perfect. It's not like it's not like hyper attractive or sexualizing. And so it kind of works for where she's at in the story because Cam is the person who comes to the door to pick her up to take her to prom. And so it's like, she's kind of accepted where she's at in her development, which is like, I'm, she would be like, what, 15? I'm 15. I have time. She's like, not even supposed to go to the prom. She only yeah is allowed to go because an older person invited her to go. Exactly. Cause she's a sophomore, so she should yeah actually be going. And so it's like, she is really cute.
01:13:27
Speaker
And it's okay that she's cute. And it's not like, oh my God, like this bangable dress. Like, no, she's just like, she looks really cute. And she looks really cute in the way that we've been trained to see her throughout the movie. Like it totally fits her style and her taste, but she's adorable and pretty, but not like,
01:13:47
Speaker
trying to act older or more ready. Yeah, like the the current sort of like fashion landscape that we live in now, like whenever I see stuff online that sort of like, you know, oh, like here's like prom dresses and stuff, they're always like very mature looking to me for the fact that these are still kids basically. Like there's something a very ah adult about like the expectations of how people should look at these formal events. Like at least that's why they' one popular interpretation. They're much closer to bridal wear.
01:14:26
Speaker
Yes. It's like made by the same like silhouettes, the same materials. and the The concept of a prom dress was like its own category at the department store at this time. like there was there was This is the section for prom. like There wasn't any other reason that you'd be there. It wasn't like, oh, I have a formal s thing or I'm going to my cousin's wedding. like None of that. It was like, this is for prom.
01:14:54
Speaker
And these dresses fit into that mold. Yeah, they really do. like So where that goes is that the designer was able to pin her in to her top, like for the actual scenes when they're in the prom. So it is more form fitting. yeah um I like didn't mind it. even though It's like total movie magic or like, I have to say, at the time, I didn't like that style of dress. Like I recognize that it's perfect for Bianca. Yes. But like I did. It's it's not my like personal taste yeah at all. And I wouldn't, you know, it's not mine either.
01:15:30
Speaker
and like so i'm with you right there like it was also just like two frou frou for my taste yeah and it's like looking at it now it's like it's pretty minimal for a frou frou thing it's pretty yeah understated it's very understated but it was like very bright and saturated and like a poofy tooled skirt.
01:15:47
Speaker
I feel like the idea of like your whole skirt being made of tulle was like a big statement then that it's not really now. Yeah now it's a thing and yeah it was like newer and being introduced at that time because it was also like we had seen that stuff when we were four. Like that was a little girl thing.
01:16:05
Speaker
And so taking that little girl thing and making it applicable to any age set was that's when it was happening. Right. And so it was just like perfect for her. And like Patrick's looked great where it was like a tux, but he wasn't wearing a tie. It was so casual. Super casual. Joey's like cream colored. Very like 90s R and&B. One hundred percent. I was like, did you get this off of Boyz II Men? Boyz II Men because like this is really chef kiss. When it's like a nod to the like 60s like it's all like it was perfect choice. It looked great and because of the character is what made it look douchey but the actual suit itself like the assembly was fantastic but yeah he was just gross. Like he carried that character so perfectly that like anything was on his body. Is he? I believe so like I think
01:17:03
Speaker
That's bad.
01:17:06
Speaker
Do that. Let me check this out really quick. Oh, my God, that's insane. I mean, he played that character so perfectly that like he could have been in any clothing, but he like the way he carried it just sent it into the like next level. Yeah. So he people called him a future cult leader and he he's like, well, I don't know that I'd say that, but I do spend tens of thousands of dollars on a spiritual group.
01:17:33
Speaker
What? Yeah, so like, people say that he started a cult in the 2010s. A spiritual organization that he helped. Oh no. Oh no. He wouldn't call himself a cult leader, but there's multiple articles about it.
01:17:49
Speaker
There, God, what is that from? There's like some joke where it's like, where you're like, is this a cult? And if the person says, I wouldn't call it a cult, you're like, it is a cult, confirm. What is that? So <unk>s like in a way, I'm like, uh-oh, did you get inspired by Luke character?
01:18:06
Speaker
That's so bad wasn't he I associate him with like like TJF ABC TV shows in this era was he on one of those maybe I don't know cuz I just like right now at this point in my life I just associate him with this in cult right yeah it's terrible.
01:18:25
Speaker
but um ha coldt laugh laugh laugh um But I like because we do see chastity at the prom and even like her prom dress was like a continuation of like the style that we've seen her in. It was a body con for days and it was a body con that matches.
01:18:43
Speaker
his outfit. Yeah. And I was like, girl, who do you know? Because she's like, yeah, he just picked me up. So it's like she wasn't supposed to go with him, but it's like, yeah, she had like the perfect outfit. It's like, girl, do you have spies? Like, I'm just like, I feel like you're Machiavelli.
01:19:05
Speaker
And these are goldfish, you know what I mean? Like, she just is like, yes, I have a battle plan for every situation. And this, of course, came up. And of course, I was right. Like, the boys in this movie think that they're like the little puppet masters? No. And she's like, no, it's me. It's me. It's been Agatha all along. And you know what? If she turned out to be some sort of like,
01:19:30
Speaker
Mega villain who's like, got everything under her control. I would be like, good for you. Good for you, girl. Like, you are that kind of smart. Good for you. You stand. You stand. I just, I mean, this, this prom was, was pretty phenomenal. And like. Can you imagine having such a cool band play at your prom or like any band that is, that was not my experience. Oh. DJ all the way.
01:19:55
Speaker
my prom was the dumbest fucking thing in the world. I feel like that's really important to have your prom be stupid. Like I think it's important. I just, I want to deviate into story time real quick, please. Did you go to junior prom? Oh, I did. Okay. So I went to junior and senior prom. I was not a senior at that school at that point because I left junior year, but I went as like a third wheel. And then okay um senior prom, I went as like a friend date and also invited another, like it was a whole thing, whatever. Junior prom was on a boat. but Oh God. Went out into the bay. I guess I'm a literal thinker to a certain point because of things like this that teach you what proms are supposed to look like.
01:20:47
Speaker
Yeah. And a lot of proms, you understand that you're paying such a big ticket because you're going to get like a food of some kind. We did not get food. Neither did we. Um, but it's like, you know, in some proms you see like,
01:21:01
Speaker
but Yeah, they'll. Yeah, I like punch bowls when I was doing doing like caterweight or stuff. I worked at like a high school prom that had like a sit down dinner. Yeah, so it's like it's pretty expensive for when you're a teenager and I think that like our ticket at the point at that time was like $75 bucks for what? All right. Yeah. And so because like I also was like, isn't it just going to be in the gym? Like why is it not in the gym? No, it was on a fucking boat. Boat of the Bay. We went out and it was like,
01:21:31
Speaker
hot and weird and there was like a dessert bar for no reason with with like the tiniest amount of desserts. And then the smallest itty bitty is Dan's floor. And so I spent quite a bit of time like outside freezing my ass off, not because I was like, whatever, I was like, I gotta get out of here. This is overstimulating as fuck.
01:21:49
Speaker
And then we had to turn around early because someone had alcohol poisoning because they'd been drinking in the limo on the way over and they were super drunk. That's a lot of alcohol to get alcohol poisoning? Mm-hmm. And the adults were like, you're not okay. So we had to turn the boat around and come back early so that she could go to the hospital as she rightly should have. Jesus. Senior prom. Sorry. This is down to leaving teenagers to organize prom, okay? Because there was a prom committee.
01:22:18
Speaker
And they're the ones who organized our 10 year high school reunion, which was like, come on, you should know better by now. So, okay, okay so if anybody knows the San Francisco Bay area, there's an area called the Presidio that looks out over the water. There's like a graveyard and you used to kind of drive past it. They changed the freeway so you don't see that part as much, but up there, building it but you can rent.
01:22:43
Speaker
And I don't remember what it's called, but it's like something, Presidio, whatever. And it's part of- There's a bunch of those. Yeah. And like why people rent this event center thing is because it has wall-to-wall windows on the bay side. But what time of day is a prom? Night. Thank you. So what was the point? It was a big black hole out there. What was the point? The reflection of whatever's happening in the prom is what you see. What was the point?
01:23:12
Speaker
It was also this massive building that was one quarter full of human bodies. oh no You could have just had it at the fucking gym and actually done some cool shit in that gym. You know what I'm saying? like What was the point of driving 30 minutes?
01:23:31
Speaker
but what gives play And they again had a tiny little area of just dessert foods. That sounds intriguing to me, the dessert food. But it was like stupid dessert foods that were like stupid, dry, you know, like it was just bad. And it was like, where did all this money go? And then the DJ like refused to play things that people were asking for.
01:23:52
Speaker
So funny. The highlight
Reflections on Prom Expectations
01:23:54
Speaker
was the theater kids rocking up on a party bus. Oh my God. And this is not how it happened, but it happened this way in my memory that they like conga lined into prom because they like showed up late. They were like, we don't give a fuck. And they showed up late, but they did. This did actually happen. You remember that song? My yahi, my yahoo. I do remember that song. So that song, they did a coordinated dance too.
01:24:18
Speaker
Oh i'm an dance explore my I was so proud of them and so happy for them. It was wonderful. Bless them for being who they are. The most theater kid shit in the world. And I was like, I just had this expectation that you have a band.
01:24:35
Speaker
You know, like, wouldn't that be cool that you get a band? It would be so unique. It would be just fun. And like, that we had a DJ who was rigid and wouldn't play cool shit was like, not that hard. That's so weird. But it's like, why not just like have a band?
01:24:54
Speaker
And then like streamers. you know like do Do it up. Because it was like, what is this? I don't know. Promise is inherently a ridiculous event. It's so stupid. It's so silly. and like we had The thing is, though, that we had other school dances. And like I talk about this with Phil. Phil was like, I'm going to go to a fucking dance. And I was like, I think because I had FOMO. And I had crazy FOMO. I didn't want to dance, but I did. and like We had a couple school dances, or maybe it was just one that I'm thinking of, in our quad. So our high school was in the shape of a box, just a square with the center empty, and that was a quad. And that's where freshmen and sophomore, that was like where some age group would like hang out at some point, and then other people would move out into like the bigger areas. But we had a dance out there one year.
01:25:43
Speaker
and it was rad because they set up lights and it was like there were garden boxes and trees and stuff so it was like outside and there was a DJ and it was rad. It was like why can't we have that energy for this thing that people say is important that we also know isn't important but like you will act like it is. There's like weird sort of old-fashioned cotillion vibes that get stuck onto prom and the idea that like it's this like pretending to be adults thing that that everyone is so obsessed with when they're a teenager, and it's really weird. It's really weird. and It's like what I realize now as an adult, what I wanted was just a ah concert. like I just wanted a band to play some music and for us to jump around and just have a good time. and It was like that that was not everybody's aspiration. It's so stupid.
01:26:34
Speaker
To each their own, but they're wrong. um They are incorrect. But that was 10 things I hate about you. One last thing I wanted to say about Kat and Patrick's outfits at the end with the guitar and the cute lines yeah is that the colors that they're wearing, the whole movie, both of them have worn lighter colors, but for the most part, they're wearing darker things. Lots of black, lots of gray. In this, there's no heavy, heavy.
01:27:00
Speaker
waiting down. So it feels like they're lighter at the movie because Patrick's not lying anymore. Cats let go
Next Episode Preview: Indiana Jones Trilogy
01:27:07
Speaker
of some of her anger and some of her like experience of high school and she's like, you know what? guard Yeah, like the guardedness is relaxed.
01:27:17
Speaker
because she realizes that there is somebody who sees her completely and she doesn't have to have that that wall up for him. The same way she doesn't for her best friend. I just like really love that story that so because it feels like Patrick is matching himself to her. It's so many opportunities. And I'm like, son, you have set yourself a massive, uh, incline for that relationship because you started it with some massive,
01:27:42
Speaker
grand gestures. Well, and also, like, she's leaving at the end of the summer. We don't think about that. We don't have to think about that. And it's like, presumably he is, too. And who knows where he's going? But good for them, I guess. Yeah. But yeah, that was that was a big thing for when we were 12 years old. 10 things I hate about you. ah What a wonderful movie. Wonderful. Love that. What should we do next time? You ask such good questions.
01:28:10
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining us on this episode about 10 things I hate about you. Our next episode is going to be a trilogy looked at kind of as one experience and it's going to be but um but but but The Indiana Jones trilogy. We're not talking about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. We're not talking about anything well recent. We're talking about the first three Indiana Joneses. yes And did that come about because we were talking about the mummy? 100%.
01:28:41
Speaker
Of course it did. These things are related because these are things that made millennials. And this is a big one. Steven Spielberg, you were a big deal. Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford. Oh my God. I am excited. I haven't watched these movies in a minute. And so ok and like the Temple of Doom was never one that I watched. More Yeah, Temple of Doom. Some of the bug and animal stuff grossed me out. Well, it was also the... I'm a sword I'm looking for. Racism? Oh, that? Temple of Doom? You didn't like that? That I just didn't care for? It was hard to be warned. Yeah, these are caricatures of human beings. I don't mind it when you characterize Nazis because fuck Nazis. But what are we doing here?
01:29:32
Speaker
so Yeah. you know That one might get a light a light pass. I'm okay with that because it's also a little misogynistic. and so There's a few things to say about that one. so Really, we're going to be talking about Raiders of the Lost Ark and the last crusade The Last Crusade. With a cameo by the Temple cameo by temple of Doom. Because there are some good costumes that Miss Lady, whose name I can't think of, does wear. Miss Lady is is basically how I'm sure she was referred to.
01:30:02
Speaker
I think so, if not that damn broad. Oh no. So yes, we will be talking about the trilogy light on the second movie, heavy on the first and the third. Looking forward to it. Please join us. I can't wait. Yay. Goodbye. See you then. Bye.