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022 - Mothers and Mourning: Navigating the Profound Loss of a Child with Antoinette Avant
38 Plays11 months ago
In this poignant episode, Reggie D. Ford engages in a raw and candid discussion about grief with Antoinette Avant. Drawing from personal experiences, Antoinette shares profound insights into the intricate nuances of coping with loss, particularly the devastating impact of losing a child. From the challenges of vulnerability to the importance of support systems, Antoinette delves into coping mechanisms, societal expectations, and the spiritual journey through grief. With a focus on emotional well-being and the power of familial bonds, Reggie and Antoinette navigate the complexities of grief with empathy and wisdom. Join them as they explore the profound emotional terrain of loss, healing, and resilience.
Highlights:
- Antoinette shares personal insights into how music aids relaxation and discusses the challenges of vulnerability in societal norms.
- Reggie encourages open dialogue about thoughts and emotions, sharing his own journey through grief.
- Antoinette reflects on a cherished childhood memory and recounts the devastating loss of her son Quan to gun violence.
- Reggie shares his personal experience of grief following the loss of loved ones.
- Antoinette discusses the role of spirituality and coping mechanisms in navigating grief.
- They emphasize the significance of supportive networks, particularly family, in the journey of healing.
- Reggie and Antoinette share their struggles with grief and depression after experiencing multiple traumatic events.
- Antoinette candidly discusses the challenges of processing grief after losing two loved ones in quick succession.
- Antoinette shares poignant reflections on finding solace in daily routines and self-care amidst grief.
- They offer words of encouragement to mothers navigating the profound loss of a child, advocating for self-compassion and purposeful living.
- Antoinette advocates for stricter gun laws and responsible ownership, drawing from personal experiences with gun violence.
- They reflect on the legacy of loved ones lost to violence and the importance of advocating for change.
📲 Connect with Reggie
Instagram - https://instagram.com/reggiedford
Facebook - https://facebook.com/reggiedford
LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/reggiedford
Twitter - https://twitter.com/reggiedford
YouTube - https://youtube.com/@reggiedford
Website - https://reggiedford.com
Book - https://amzn.to/487OqJD
Podcast - https://reggiedford.com/vulnerabilitymuscle
Podcast’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/vulnerabilitymuscle
📲 Connect with Antoinette
FB - Antoinette Avant
IG - @Inspireyou73
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Transcript
Introduction to Vulnerability Muscle Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
and I am a mother of five, Quan being and my youngest child. um At the time of his murder, he was 20, so he died November the 4th, 2019. Welcome to Vulnerability Muscle, the empowering podcast challenging norms and guiding you to find strength and power through vulnerability. I'm your host, Reggie D. Ford. In a world that often portrays vulnerability as a sign of weakness, I believe it is a source of tremendous strength and authenticity. Through insightful conversations and thought-provoking interviews, Vulnerability Muscle aims to redefine vulnerability and help listeners develop a new perspective on their own lives.
Exploring Vulnerability and Personal Growth
00:00:40
Speaker
Each episode of Vulnerability Muscle delves into a variety of topics such as mental health, social issues, and mindset shifts. We explore the power of vulnerability in healing, building resilience, and promoting personal growth, as well as fostering meaningful connections.
00:00:56
Speaker
This podcast provides practical tools and strategies to navigate life's challenges, overcome adversity, and create more inclusive and just environments for all people. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Introducing Guest: Antoinette Avant
00:01:08
Speaker
Antoinette Avant, how you doing? Hey, I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing good. And I was trying to be proper and get your government name out there, but this is my auntie, y'all. Not the government. Yes, Auntie Tony, how you, man. As Grandmama would say, your government, don't get my don't get my government. Yes, oh man, i am I am so honored to have you on the show and to have this conversation, because I know it'll be a good one and I think it'll touch a lot of people in ah in a lot of ways as we talk through grief.
Discussing Grief with Antoinette
00:01:46
Speaker
um That's a big subject.
00:01:49
Speaker
Man, it's a really big subject for me. Yes. Yes. And before we get into that though, I want to warm up a little bit with a couple of rapid response questions. So you let me know the first thing that comes to mind. Okay. Okay. Go. What is one thing you do to relax when you're feeling stressed?
00:02:10
Speaker
One thing I do to relax is try to turn some music on. I love India Reese, so she kind of, She's my safe space when I'm just not feeling myself and I need to just be like, man. a So ah that's what I do to relax. I listen to India. I put my headphones in and I listened to um different songs by her um because it helped me a lot. It helps me he helped me get through a lot of stuff.
00:02:41
Speaker
Okay. um i I love that. I think music is so powerful. So that's a good one. What comes to mind when you hit a word vulnerability? Wow. Vulnerability is, Ooh, that's a hard word for me. Um, I guess because it's hard for me to really let my guard down. um I've been strong for so long and it it's one of those words that I shy away from because but for women, vulnerability is dangerous because we allow a lot of things to happen to us because we're vulnerable. And a lot of women don't even understand that they're vulnerable being in situations that they are. So that's really tough for me.
00:03:32
Speaker
Hmm. Hmm. Well, I always like to say to, to folks, um, if, cause this is the vulnerability muscle, if ever something that is, that we discuss is too much or feels dangerous or threatening to you, I hope that you feel comfortable letting me know so we can get you to a safe space mentally and then, uh, getting back with the conversation or ending the conversation. So you just keep me up to date and whatever you feeling and I'll respect that. Okay. Oh, I definitely will. thank and I know you will. And what is one of your favorite childhood memories? One of my favorite childhood memories is meeting my dad's side of the family and knowing that I had another side, um,
00:04:26
Speaker
that whole embrace from that, from that family, meeting that family and then loving on me and continuously loving on me. That's one of my favorite childhood memories. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Um, you just brought up some, some emotions for me and I'm going to share those a little bit later, but, um, yeah, so special.
Family and Personal Reflections
00:04:49
Speaker
And last, if you could have a conversation with anybody living or dead, who would it be and why?
00:04:56
Speaker
It will be my son, Akwan. And it would be a conversation of maybe what could I have done? and I know there's nothing I could have done. The conversation would probably be more of a I miss you type of thing, or of my thoughts, how I feel, and what's going on with me and just different stuff like that. Because we used to have, when they were little, I used to have talk time with them. And we would have, you know, I worked a lot, I still work a lot. And they would, I would put them all in a bed with me. Of course, I got five kids, so I would put them all in the bed with me. And we would just talk. You know, it it was all the time to have conversations and
00:05:54
Speaker
You know, and even as he got older, you know, that was one thing that we did. We talked and we would talk in depth. And, you know, they used to, his friends would tease him because he, they would say, you always talking to your mama. He was always, he would always say so. Right. Yeah. Good. Good. I'm glad that he viewed it that way. Uh, because that's special. That's a special time between y'all, y'all, all of y'all, but especially y'all too. Yeah. definitely So the the emotions that came up when you shared that, and this is again, this is one that I'm excited to hop into because of ah just our relationship, but then the relationship that you have with people in my life. ah And so you can see over my shoulder is as a picture of your dad, a graduate from graduation. And so.
00:06:50
Speaker
Pops, that was my dude. That was my dude. Hey, if I didn't know nothing else, I knew that. Yes, yes. He was like so close. And so when we think about grief, I think about the the the grieving process around him and as well as
Antoinette's Tragic Loss and Grief Journey
00:07:10
Speaker
you know my grandma. and But also, you're connected to my dad as well as your stepbrother. um I grieve that loss of a relationship that is still you know he's still alive.
00:07:25
Speaker
and and so i'm i'm prepared I've tried to prepare myself emotionally for this conversation as best I could, um but i am i'm um I'm excited and ready to dive into it. so You want to tell us a little bit about you and and you you brought up Juan and you know he's no longer here. Do you want to talk a little bit through that story? Um, so I am, I am a mother of five, uh, Quan being and my youngest child. Um, at the time of his murder, he was 20. So he died November the 4th, uh, 2019. Um, prior to that two weeks before his passing, um,
00:08:12
Speaker
I had, well, of course I got a son that had sickle cell and ah we were, he had just had a transplant, a bone marrow stem cells transplant. So going back to November, two weeks before Quan had passed away, I just remember being in the shower and um I closed my eyes because I was so exhausted. um Andre had got really sick after he had the transplant. and i had got i you know I was just so exhausted from always running and going and doing. and
00:08:46
Speaker
um I think I was, ah well, I know I was standing in the shower and you know how you just be so exhausted, you just standing there and just close your eyes and just kind of wash your body a little bit. So um I'm washing up and I close my eyes. And meanwhile, when I close my eyes, ah I see myself sitting in a church and with a casket. The feeling that I had was so overwhelming that
00:09:19
Speaker
I couldn't, I had what they call sleep paralysis and I couldn't even open my eyes to get myself out of it. But I just remember the feeling. I will never forget that feeling. That feeling was something that I cannot describe to anybody. I just know that to me it was an out of body experience to experience something like that. one So, meanwhile, I'm in a shower. I'm trying to get myself together because I'm weeping. And it's like a mumble type of week. And i couldn't get I couldn't even get myself out of the shower. I got the water. I can hear the water running.
00:10:04
Speaker
and i can I can feel myself like sitting down, but all I know is that I was alone in a church and there was a casket. Finally, i for whatever reason, I got myself out of it and I got out the shower, but I laid on that bathroom, cold bathroom floor, but I weeped. I weeped because I thought it was God's way of telling me something was gonna happen to Andre. The Sunday before Quan passed away, we were on the phone and he was talking about my mom. Quan said, mama, where's your mama? He said, how come you don't know where your mom? My mom was in the rehab because she had been sick. And she had went to a rehab place to kind of get her legs and stuff going and all of that stuff. um And
00:10:56
Speaker
When he called me, he said, I said, well, when are you coming to spend time with us? you know He's like, are you going to cook? Because if you didn't know nothing else, Quan could eat. Quan didn't like sweets. He would not eat sweets like that. But when I tell you that boy would eat you out of the house at home, he would eat you out of the house at home. Um, he told me, he said, um, I'll come tomorrow. I'll be over there tomorrow. I say he promises. And he said, yeah, I need to hang out with my brother, but it's hard for me to see him like that. And I said, well, okay. Cause you know, when you come in and you got to do all this stuff so that you don't bring no germs in the house. And he's like, yeah, I know mom, when he said, but I'll be over there tomorrow evening when I get off work, I say, okay, cool. That Monday came and, um,
00:11:48
Speaker
I had got off work early because I was going going coming home to be with ah Andre. And I seen the news, but I, you know, I was like, it's always something I'm trying to look around and something. So about five 30 or six o'clock, my phone rang and I was like, I wonder who this is. Keep calling. You know, I didn't say spam likely. It didn't give me a notice that I, you know, I was received, I just received receiving a call and I was like, I don't know who it is. And I'm not going to answer if they don't leave me a message and I'm not going to answer no phone.
00:12:22
Speaker
Well, something happened in my spirit and I decided to answer the phone. So I answered the phone and it was a detective on the phone and they said, ah hi, is this Antoinette Avant? I said, well, I said, ah when i when he said that, I said, well, baby, let me tell you something. If I owe you some money, guess what? Wait on it. yeah He was like, call me. What is it? And he said, well, ma'am, I'm not calling up for that. This is Metro police. And I started thinking, you know, they can play on the phone. People can play on the phone. And they said, well, this is Metro police ah chaplain. But I didn't remember that until after the fact that he was saying he was a chaplain. All I heard was Metro police.
00:13:19
Speaker
So I was like, I said, okay, he said, well, are you the mom of a Quan Avant? And I was like, yeah. And he said, well, do you live such and such address? And I was like, no, that's a Quan's address. And he was like, well, ma'am, is there a way we can come and talk to you? And I started thinking to myself, I said, well, I don't know what he did, but I don't want no parts of it. And I told that man, I said, well, if he did something wrong, I said, ota I haven't seen him since the other day. And I came vouch for him and I'm not going to vouch for him. And he was like, well, no ma'am. He's like, we just really need to come talk to you. So I was like, well, okay.
00:14:01
Speaker
So then I started calling the other kids. Of course, Andre was home with me. So I started calling the girls and telling the girls, look, the police just called about Quan and they want to come over here and talk to me. But I told the detective, I say, if you come over here, I'm coming outside because you can't come in this house. And he was like, well, ma'am, is your family around? And I started thinking, why would he want my family to be around? That's weird.
00:14:26
Speaker
So when he finally got there, of course I i wouldn't let him in. I said, now we can either sit in this this a police car or you can come sit in my car, whichever one you want to do, but you're not coming in there. Cause I told you my son had this transplant and I'm not letting nobody in the house. And he's like, well, is anybody else? And I say, what's all the questions? These questions interrogating. What are we doing? he said, well, I said, well, we can go in my car. That's fine. So I remember just sitting there and he was like, well, ma'am, you know, there was an incident that happened today and ah he said, ah and Quang was involved. And I said, well, okay. So, okay. Well, how was he involved? Because I'm not a witness. I don't know. I haven't talked to him today. So I don't know, you know, what's going on.
00:15:18
Speaker
And he said, well, there was an incident on 26th Avenue North and k Quan was the victim. So I'm saying, I'm trying to get in my mind. Did he just say my son was a victim? And I said, well, a victim of what, sir? He said, um there was a shooting and Quan was a victim that got shot. And I said, what? Say that again? He said there was a shooting and Quan was, ah unfortunately, he was shot too. He says, is there anybody in the house that can come outside with you? But I want to understand what he was trying to say to me because then I started having real bad anxiety because I'm thinking to myself, something's happening to my child and I need whatever. I was about to pull off in the car with him in the car with me.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah to go see Quan. Yeah because when he said um he said um he said Quan was shot and I was like he was what? He said well Quan a Quan was shot and um he was standing out with three other guys and um unfortunately he didn't make it. So I'm saying to myself
00:16:36
Speaker
Is this man really sitting in this car telling me that somebody done killed my baby? Because I believe he told me that. Did he mention that he had been killed? and and Yeah. Did he mention that at the time? Okay. Well, he well he told me, he said that um there was a shooting. who And he said ah we're investigating it and we believe it's homicide. And I was like, i so So I started looking at him like he was crazy, because I was like, this man, I said, where is he? He said he said um he's at Vanderbilt. He was like, but ma'am, he's already deceased. And I was like, no, he not. didn't That's a part of grief. He go right into denial, because it's like, no, you're not telling me this. You can tell somebody else this, but you're not talking about my son. Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
what was What was the body sensation that you felt when he told
Coping with Grief and Depression
00:17:32
Speaker
you? Like, what'd you feel in your body? The weird part of it is, I'm glad you asked me that, because nobody really never asked me that. My ears got warm first. a And I was like, my ears was warm. I remember my then my arms started to feel warm. And then I started to feel numb. and it's it's almost And it's almost like time went this stopped. And I was trying to grasp everything he was saying to me, but at the same time I became angry. Cause I'm saying to myself, did you really just sit up here and tell me that my son, somebody done killed my baby? my My baby though, somebody done killed my baby. Yeah.
00:18:19
Speaker
And he was like, yes, ma'am. He's like, is there anybody I can call for you? Is there you know anything you know I can do for you? And I was like, no, because you just told me somebody killed my son. Right. oo Wow. that I think that in itself was one of those things where You know, it's a prayer. ah I do a prayer often and most, all of the prayers are in the beginning is God make me strong for whatever's coming my way.
00:18:57
Speaker
And I didn't even know how profound that was for my life at this moment, at these times right now. Yeah. but Because for him to tell me that I instantly got on the phone and I called Pooh first and I said, Pooh, I said, you need to come over here. And she was like, mama, what is it? Cause I'd already told him that the police was coming over here. And she said, what is, what's going on, mama? I said, Pooh, I cannot tell you this over the phone. I just need you to come.
00:19:30
Speaker
me So I think that she pulled up first, and I think the detective might've told her that Quan had passed away. And I just remember my neighbors coming outside, but they was thinking that it was Andre, hey you know because they knew that he had had that transplant. So they was thinking it was probably him. well When I tell you that was the worst night of my life,
00:20:03
Speaker
I cannot imagine.
00:20:07
Speaker
So yeah, it's been, it's, it's been, it's been really, really hard. ah It's been difficult for sure. And, and I can't even, like one, you were already in the midst of taking care of a sick child with sickle cell. And, and then to find out that your baby, your youngest, is no longer here, I cannot even imagine it. So like, I just want to, one, just extend, I mean, this is my cousin too, so like extend my condolences to you as you continue to grieve. And that was the one thing like when we talked about doing this episode was talking about the grief process. And you mentioned kind of this the early stages of grief, right? Denial, followed by anger, right? So it's no, it's not the truth. And then you get angry.
00:20:59
Speaker
And then the next step in is bargaining. do you Do you recall a period in time where you started to bargain, when you started to ask, you know, I'm going to trade my life or can we take this back? Or how did how did you see that playing a role in your grief process? Of course, I have so many questions like. You know, like God, I mean, is this really my life right now? I asked God, you know, is if there was a way that you can just take me and bring them back, you know, at least his siblings won't hurt so bad and it won't be so bad on them. But it would have been bad on them too if something would have happened to me. But, you know, in the midst of all of this, you know, it's one of those things where
00:21:51
Speaker
You know, so many times i so I kept saying, who wants to hurt like this? Like, this is a different kind of hurt. This is a hurt that you can't really tell people, you know, how it feels. Who wants to wake up like that every day? Like every day, you know, the constant thinking is what they call mother's guilt. It's, you know, cause it's like, you you feel guilty about what could I have done or what could this? what could It's nothing I could have done. I couldn't be everywhere he was. I couldn't go everywhere he went. you know ah couldn't you know We all have our time, but we know that there's evil people in this world. so
00:22:43
Speaker
It's just, yeah, I do a lot of bargaining like, i come on, get me because this ain't this right here don't feel good. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I remember when when I found out ah It was was after Wendy, my grandmother had passed away and yeah and I was in very much my own, like deep in my grieving process at that time. and I remember me and in and
00:23:15
Speaker
my granddad came to see you and just sitting there and feeling like this level of shock around it all just like like you said like this ain't real this can't be real and but still not having the capacity to even understand how everybody was feeling at that time because I was grieving and like, I'm like, I want to be there to support you and to support the rest of the family. But um I was I was so numb at that time. And I but it it hurt so much because Kwan was such a great young man. And and he loved you.
00:24:02
Speaker
That's a great young man, i remember? we like, cause he was taking football seriously. And so he he would come and work out with me. And that was one of the things I remember like just seeing how, like it didn't matter if I told him we're going to do 6 a.m. or we're going to do 10 p.m. Like he was, he was, he was okay. I'm coming and where I need to go and what we need to do. And he was heavier than me, but he wants to do every single thing. And I'm doing plyometrics, I'm doing all this other stuff and I'm just really testing his will, seeing how, how, how much he wanted to do and how much he really wanted it.
00:24:35
Speaker
And that was one thing that I you couldn't question. Like he would he wanted it. He was committed to it. He was such a hard worker and such a positive light. And I can just see his smile. Like his smile is such a beam of light in this world. And I look at it. It's coming through you like. this And and so. But yeah, like I was in total shock when it happened. And I just like, I know I cried so much around it, just understanding it all. And I think, you know, that next step of grief being depression. Can you talk to and where were things have been and where they are as it relates to that? Because I think so many people lose people and feel like
00:25:24
Speaker
they should be over whatever it is that they have lost, but we know that's not the case. No, it's definitely not. um so i have I'm a whole lot better than I have i was. i was using ah I've always been a workaholic, but I use work to help me, which is not good at all. Speak today. but if if Because it's like a ah bad day and you get up in the morning and you go I was getting up in the morning going to work, getting off for work, laying down and going to sleep, getting up and doing it all over again, the off days.
00:26:17
Speaker
My off days would be so bad for me that I couldn't even get out of the bed. If if i didn't get if I didn't have some purpose to get out of bed, to do something else, then I will lay there in that bed and twelve oh my thoughts will come in so bad and it will be almost the nighttime for me just waking up. trying to get my thoughts together and I couldn't get out of of bed. I barely was eating. I barely, you know, everything was hard for me. If I didn't have anything to do, then I felt like my world was crashing around because I had so many thoughts and for all of, could not just losing Quine, but losing my dad and my mom, all of that together. See people,
00:27:14
Speaker
What they don't understand is that, you know, especially when grief happened that close together, and everybody always wanna ask me the question, am I okay? No. I'm never ever gonna be okay. A part of my soul left. When a mother loses a child, that's a, dick it gives you a whole nother look. Your face, your body, Your mental, your everything changes.
00:27:49
Speaker
But to have had lost my dad right after losing my son, to bury him on the 17th, I couldn't even go to my dad's burial, of course, you know that. But I couldn't go to my dad's burial because nobody even knew that my mom was in hospice. Wow. And like when you called me to tell me that something was going on with him and I needed to get to the hospital, earlier that that day, ah they had put my mom in what they call, I think it's called palliative care or palliative care or something, you know, just to see her if she would turn around and things would be better with her.
00:28:35
Speaker
And they told me that she would, um when they take her, if she is okay in palliative care, we can we can go ahead and ship her and she'll be, you know, back at home if everything's okay. But she didn't get better. She went right to, you know, hospice. They called it and said, you know, we need to have a family meeting um because we're probably going to go ahead and proceed to take send her to a live hospice. In my mind, thinking like, It's crazy because it's like everything changed. like What are you really saying to me? Because I know you're not telling me that my mom is is it getting ready to leave me. right And so in the process of losing my son and being so like like closed off, no kind of social, anything,
00:29:31
Speaker
um I really couldn't be bothered with people. People was asking too many questions. I didn't have answers for those questions. And so when I had, when actually when you called me that day, I had just went back to my part-time job. And that night was a night that I had just, everybody from my job was like, we've been worried about you, how you been, this and that. And I'm like, you know, I'm just trying to, you gotta go, I gotta to go through it to get through it. Yeah, yeah. What were some of the most unhelpful comments or questions that people would ask you during that time? um Are you okay?
00:30:19
Speaker
um And the worst thing I think people can ask is, especially if they don't know what happened, is like, what happened to him? Was he, The questions, like, do you really think I want to relive those moments by telling you at this early time, especially when it first happened, was he standing outside? Did they know the people that did it? Was he involved in a game? Was he shooting at the people? And like, really?
00:30:54
Speaker
yeah Like my whole heart is outside of my chest and you worried about if if he was shooting too. He was not shooting. Cause it sounds like them questions sounds like justification for, Oh, well then it must have been like, that's why i should yeah it have happened. And it's like, no, like no one yeah should be murdered ever regardless of the fact of the situation. And so I can see how those could be extremely frustrating to hear. Yeah, definitely. Wow.
Support and Resilience in Family
00:31:24
Speaker
When you think about losing, so so son, dad, and then mom, so close back to back, like in rapid succession, what advice would you give to people going through something like that? Because I feel like death's coming in those trios or or come like rapidly like that. And it's hard to deal with the grief of one loss, ah let alone the many. What got you through those periods of time?
00:31:55
Speaker
Uh, my other children and you know, just my family, like understanding and either giving me that time or coming to just check on me. Um, not really asking me questions, just holding on to me. Oh, that makes me want to cry. You can cry. i know ah Um, just holding on to me and saying, you know, I'm here. Um,
00:32:26
Speaker
But my children, they looked at me as being strong, this really strong person, but I was fighting because I knew if I quit, I was gonna give up. And I think a lot of people know that I withdraw a lot because it's hard for me to be around people. um When Quan and my dad and my mom died, something happened with my spirit and opened my spirit up. And when I say it's hard for me to be around people, it's because I can feel their spirit, their energy. um Weird things happen to me since this has happened. um Just the whole concept of
00:33:27
Speaker
People just reaching out, just saying, you know, hey, and I'm just, you know, want to know if you're okay. And, but mostly my children, my children and my family, my close family got me through it. Yeah, that's the community that is is around you definitely can pull you through some of those things. I relate when you say like it's hard to be around people. I think that is one of those acts of avoidance that we have in order to not feel ah that connection, that spirit that you felt, because it brings up some of that pain that you feel that's attached to those loved ones as well. um Tell me on on
00:34:10
Speaker
How is Dre doing ah with his sickle cell through all that through that entire process? How is he doing and how did what happened to Quan, your dad, and your mom affect how you were showing up for him during that period of time? a Andre is doing amazing. um Of course, he had a bone marrow stem cell transplant ah who gave him her stem cells. so He is doing amazing with this four-year-old daughter that he has, which is such a diva.
00:34:44
Speaker
um
00:34:46
Speaker
Me watching him go through everything that he's been through from having sickle cell and Quan and Andre was so close, like, you would have thought that they was twins born different.
00:35:11
Speaker
Watching Andre and Quan grow up and be together and then watching Andre grieve his brother because the last thing that they was talking about was, a boy's trip and they was gonna go to Vegas because Andre would have turned 25 and Quan would have turned 21. I had already bought the tickets, had already made the plans, I did everything.
00:35:48
Speaker
um And just, he is such a, he's been grown all his life and I tell people that But Andre is another source of strength that is so profound. Like I can talk about him all day, but watching him go through sickle cell, then almost losing his life from a transplant to lose his brother, to lose his grandfather, and to lose his grandmother.
00:36:27
Speaker
And in the process of that, he had a baby. And just watching him go through it um as a mother is hard because, you know, i me not knowing what to say to make him feel better, but I get a lot of strength from him because I know the things that he's been through. he And I know that if he can still stand on his two feet and walk and do the things that that he used to couldn't do, then it gives me hope to keep going and keep moving.
00:37:01
Speaker
That's inspiring. Wow. That's so inspiring. I want to hear what you would say to mothers who have grieved the loss that you have, the loss of ah of a child.
Advice and Reflections on Grief
00:37:14
Speaker
I think that is a significant loss that many people cannot relate to. But speaking to those mothers who have lost a child, what is your words of encouragement, your advice, your or comfort to them? My words would be
00:37:31
Speaker
it's It's gonna hurt and it's gonna hurt for a long time, but you have to get up every day, every day, because if you don't get get up, you're gonna stay there. You're not gonna wanna live anymore. You're not gonna wanna try. You're not gonna wanna, all you wanna do is cry because that's all you know how to do. And although crying helps because that's a way of, it's a relief out for the heart. You just gotta keep going. Your life does not stop. It's hard to keep going after that, but you have to keep going because if you quit, then it's over. You know, you I look at it like,
00:38:27
Speaker
um as close as me and Quan was and you know all the fun that me and my children have together. um If anybody knew Quan, they knew that Quan was always on the go. Quan would get up. He didn't care if there was something going on and he needed to be there, he would get there. But if I can encourage a mom, I would say, go through your process. You gotta go through it to get through it. you you You definitely, because if you don't do that part, then you won't make it. But you if you go through it, you'll get through it. i' ah This is me saying that you won't stop crying because you won't stop crying and you won't stop being angry. But every day that you got you have life,
00:39:20
Speaker
You got to figure out something to do with that part of you because we lose ourself when it comes to grief. I've lost myself. I know I have, but I'm slowly trying to get myself back. And and if I can do it, losing my son, my, my dad and my mom, then trust me, you can. it It's when I say it's hard in the beginning, it's so hard because you don't know what to do, what to say. when to leave, when the gut when to when to leave when to state, nothing, you don't know what to do. yeah Wow, that's powerful right there. ah
00:40:02
Speaker
I want to shift gears, talk about your dad because your dad was the greatest man that I've ever known. The absolute best man in my life and when I think about you know what my life would have been like without his presence in it. I i i see darkness and me being lost and not knowing which way is up. And so ah I'm super grateful for for his presence in my life. But I want to talk to, um because that's that's not the same story for everybody, but I want to talk to your relationship with him.
00:40:47
Speaker
How was your relationship with him as a child, as a young adult, as the person you are? And how did that evolve over time? Well, the strange thing is that I didn't meet him till I was like 14. And I don't know if you even knew that. I don't think I did. But I was a teenager when I met him. So it made our relationship kind of strange because it was like we was trying to figure each other out. I knew that he loved me. But I didn't have, um I won't say I didn't have an emotional connection because I did have that. But I didn't have the bond that I thought I should have had with him, which caused us to have a really like different space with each other. But I know that if things were was like, if something happened in my life, like he did, he showed up.
00:41:45
Speaker
um And I just remember him, you know, how he was with all the kids at Mickey House and, you know, um
00:41:58
Speaker
He was a quiet man, and you know that, of course. So it was hard for him to communicate with me because of course I'm a girl, I'm wild, you know, it's like, what, what? But just, you know, remembering, you know, like when I first found out I was pregnant and he was like, what you gonna do now, girl? girl
00:42:27
Speaker
And I'm like, you know, I'm gonna be a mother, you know, and that's all I know how to do, you know? And, you know, just him, you know, if I needed him, he would be there, you know, and he would get mad at me because I never would ask for anything. Like, he was like, why you don't ask for nothing? fit And I'm like, well, I've been independent all my life. I didn't have a choice. yeah So, you know, I wasn't interested in what he could give me. I just wanted his love and needed his love, you know? And of course he was a hard worker too. And that's where I get it from because I worked like my dad worked. And I mean, I just, you know, I just remember how he, like he would come in over on Mickey house and be like, where's all the kids at?
00:43:21
Speaker
He love the kids. Oh my God. And I mean, just, you know, enjoying seeing him. And then when, when he would come around my kids and how they would be all over him and they'd be like, granddad Larry, granddad Larry. And he was like, even your kids don't ask me for nothing. And I'm like, sorry. Like, what do you do? Oh, that's funny. He was like, you got your kids just like you. You know, ask me for nothing. I'm like, I'm sorry.
00:44:01
Speaker
But he's always been so quiet. And I said, Daddy, you will never talk. He's like, I do talk. So you need to quit smoking cigarettes. I was always saying, quit smoking cigarettes. I hate them cigarettes. He couldn't put them down. He couldn't put them down. Funny story. So a couple of weeks before he died, This is right before Christmas. He he called me and he was out of breath. He's like, I need you to come over here. So I ran over there.
00:44:36
Speaker
um No, actually, it's not a couple of weeks, couple of days ran over there and I have a key to the door. I get in the door and he's on the ground. He's he's not in a good space. And I'm on the phone with 911 called Ambulance and. While he's laying there, he has a pack of cigarettes that he knows he's not supposed to be smoking. And he's like, can you do me a favor? He's shivering and shaking on the ground. He's like, can you flush them down the toilet? floor
00:45:10
Speaker
I'm just like, you knew damn well, you shouldn't have been smoking all this time, but he wouldn't come stop. And so I just like, I mean, like we knew cigarettes were a terrible thing and it didn't, it you know, definitely had an impact on his health, but ah yeah a man knew what he wanted and he wouldn't go let nobody tell him otherwise. Oh man, you weren't gonna tell him what to do because he was not. No, no, no, he was not. He was not gonna stop smoking them cigarettes. I'm like, dad, you gotta quit smoking.
00:45:47
Speaker
but you know one favorite One of my favorite memories of him was ah when he was having heart surgery. I forget if it was a double or triple bypass, but he He was going in to have heart surgery and i this was this was a decade before he died but um he took me aside and we had a family function and he took me aside and was just like, he started crying. Really? And I had never seen him cry before.
00:46:27
Speaker
And I was probably 18 at the time. And I was scared. Like, what what is what's going on? And he told me about the surgery. one Yeah, he told me that he was about to have the surgery and it was a chance that he wouldn't make it. And just hearing those words come out of his mouth, denial, right? I'm like, you're right. Like you Superman, like you're going to be straight. Right. Right. And ah he held me and he squeezed me and he kept saying, no matter what they say, you mine, you mine.
00:47:04
Speaker
yeah And I was like, hell yeah. I don't care what no say then nobody could say to say to make it anything different. And of course he was referring to you know not being my biological grandfather, but again, the best man that I known and the the only man that I could look at and say like he loved me from start to finish. You better know it. That was that was ah just one of those moments where like I could feel his love and saw him be vulnerable for the first like you know emotionally vulnerable for one of the first times in my life. And it was a beautiful thing. And fortunately, he he made it out of that surgery and was was good and and and did some good things after that. so But that was that was a real touching moment for me, for him.
00:47:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He was one of a kind now. I'm telling you, he was definitely one of a kind. And just remembering him and Amiki's relationship. Like, i I think I want to say that Amiki loved all her brothers and sisters, but I believe my dad was her favorite. Oh, yeah. Because of how he they treated each other. Yeah. like And then watching him grieve her. That was hard for me to see him go through that too. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, he he he loved her deeply. um You know, I just know like like we would always make stops and we're going to our Mickey house. We're going over Uncle Bubbles. And like like that that was the that was the the routine every weekend. And he was not going to deviate from that. And he made sure he checked on he made sure he checked on people and cared about people and and just showed up. Like you said, showed up.
00:48:50
Speaker
And, and that was one of the things I admire most about him, and I try to try to emulate and continue in my life is just showing up for people so.
Understanding the Nature of Grief
00:49:00
Speaker
um Yeah, that's real. I got a question for you so you know you you say. the grief that you experienced and right as it was happening, the questions and all of that was just so much. And one can look at you now and say, oh, you smile and you you laughing, but there are also tears right now. What is your thought about, you know, the timeline for grief? Is there a timeline? Is there not? How do you think about that?
00:49:31
Speaker
Uh, people always want to put a time on like, darn, you been gone for four years and he been gone for five years. He gone seven years. Girl, you still crying. Yes. I'm gonna keep crying. Absolutely. That's one of the things. Grief, I had this described to me in ah in a and a grief counseling session of like grief is like this ball and you put it in a jar. And what I guess we expect or hope to happen is that that ball shrinks until it eventually disappears.
00:50:08
Speaker
But the truth is that ball doesn't shrink. It's just that jar gets bigger around it. And so we become the jar where we grow, like you said, in in order to get through, you got to go through it. And so we got to grow around the grief. So that the jar gets bigger, the ball stays the same, but we have more capacity to hold that grief that we are experiencing and have experienced. But I agree with you. I don't think it ever goes away. I think it's a roller coaster of emotions for
00:50:40
Speaker
Um, at least for me, I'm saying for a lifetime, because that's what it feels like. And it may be that way for the people that I grieve and and not just the people, but the things and the, the ideas and concepts of, of what could be, it could have been grieve those as well. And it's, it's one of those things that I feel like is a lifetime journey. There's no time. I'm lying on it because you can be all right. And then two seconds later, you just break down and start crying. Um, I had a dream about Quan probably, uh, it was probably a year or so after he had passed away. Um, I dreamed that he was sitting on my couch and he had told me, he said, mama. He said, I need you to, I need you to tell Nisha about this song. Nisha was his girlfriend at the time.
00:51:34
Speaker
And I said, what song, Quan? He said, I don't know, Mama. I just know the lady name is Cynthia. And I was like, now how am I supposed to tell somebody about a song? And you just know the lady name. And he's like, well, you can find it. You can find it. So is i I finally went back to work or whatever. And in my dream, he told me, he said, mama, he said, Nisha, I can hear Nisha. And i I feel like she wants somebody you know to be there for her. And I just want her to know that I'm here, but she can't hear me, but I can hear her. And I was like, well, okay, well, I don't know how I'm gonna find this song, but okay. The next morning I got up,
00:52:25
Speaker
and was like, wow, that was a weird dream. I got up, went to work, and I turned on YouTube, because I i was, of course, listening to NDI Re. I was listening to NDI Re's song, ah He Heals Me. And right up under her song, there was a lady named Cynthia Arevo. ah
00:52:47
Speaker
The song was from a soundtrack, Beyond the Lights, called Fly Before You Fall, or Yeah, fly before you fall. In those lyrics, she said, I see the way that you look at me when they when you hear my name. I see my pictures all in the frame. um It's in the moments when you're left all alone and it hits you from out of nowhere.
00:53:18
Speaker
I break as I hear you, loud as a bomb, wanting a shoulder to cry on, I hear you. Nephew, I had to leave work because when I say, That song tour, it still, to I can listen to it right now and it tears me up. And from time to time, I go back and I listened to it because I'm listening. I'm thinking about the words that he said, I hear you. I know that you want somebody to be there and I'm there and I'm holding on to you, but you don't know it.
00:54:01
Speaker
And I was like, wow.
00:54:06
Speaker
That's powerful. That's powerful. I want to ask I'm going to ask you one more question before I do. I this quote that I found is so powerful and now I just wanted to read it. So anybody out there grieving, um whatever it is that you're grieving, this is by Earl Grohlman says grief is not a disorder, a disease or a sign of weakness. It is an emotional, physical and spiritual necessity. The price you pay for love.
00:54:40
Speaker
The only cure for grief is to grieve. And so like you said, you got to grieve. You got to feel those feelings. You got to cry. I love what you said about it's a release vow for the heart. crying and tears are released by all. That's so beautiful. And yeah, that's that's the price we pay for loving people, for loving things and loving animals and loving the world and loving our life as it is or was. And so the question I want to want to leave you with is what are you living for today, Auntie? The strange thing is that I have grandchildren now
00:55:25
Speaker
And in my own way, I feel like I haven't been able to really enjoy them. And part of that is me grieving. ah Grief come with you pushing people away from you because I'm so afraid to get close to somebody or something. um That I'm not my best.
00:55:58
Speaker
And if I can show up for them as my best, then I don't want to do it. Not saying that I don't want to be a grandmother. I just, I'm in my process. So I'm living for, I'm trying to get mentally together so that when it's time for me to just really get in there as a grandparent, I'll be able to do it, but right now I can't do it. Um, and people would, would probably say, well, that should give you inspiration to wanna, you know, everybody grieve different. Everybody agrees differently. Everybody's process is different. Just being able to show up and do the things that I need to do.
00:56:59
Speaker
to keep going um and to know that I still have life in me. um
00:57:10
Speaker
But I'm living for my grandbabies. Because at the end of the of the day, if something happened to one of their parents, it's me. It's going to be me you know that has to take that responsibility. So I got to get me together. That's what I'm trying to do. And I'm living for the rest of the kids that I have after losing corn. Um, I'm living to be free, free from, from, you know, this pain will never go away, but I want to get out of the, Oh, this happened to me. And, you know, um, I'm not a victim.
00:57:55
Speaker
Um, yeah, it happened to me. Um, but I got a story to tell. Yeah. um It happened to me because I know there's going to be people out there that's going to see me and say, how in the world did you lose your son? And then, so when we buried dad on the 17th, I was with my mom while yeah I was at the burial. And I just remember kissing her on her cheek. You know, she had stopped eating and, you know, they, they told me that, you know, that was the final stages. She had stopped eating and, um, I remember kissing her on the cheek and I said, mama, I love you. And she couldn't really talk anymore.
00:58:51
Speaker
And.
00:58:56
Speaker
She mumbled, I love you too. And I said, I'll see you in the morning and I'm gonna come and spend a day up here with you. ah um They told me that i was she would probably swell up real bad. I didn't see the swelling um because the swelling wasn't on the outside, it was on the inside. Her kidneys had shut down. And so I said, well, I'll see you in the morning, mama. And when morning came, it was about 7.30 and they had called me and told me, and she had taken her last breath and that was it. And i I have so much grief from that because I'm like, I'm one person. And all of this that I've been through
00:59:55
Speaker
It's like i like she was there and she was by herself. So I harbor so much guilt from that. And every day I fight because I say, that's how she wanted to go. Because she knew I was, her biggest thing was she couldn't help me because I had lost my baby. And I'm and i'm an only child, so.
01:00:22
Speaker
She couldn't really be there for me like she wanted me wanted to be, but she didn't want to want me to see her go. And so I fight between that because I said it was my job to be there and I couldn't be there. So I deal with that. That's a part of grief and guilt that I harbor because I wasn't there. So I just get up every day, nephew. It's the hardest thing in the world to do. But I get up every day believing that it's gonna be a good day. Because if I don't, I'm gonna break.
01:01:05
Speaker
next And my kids think I'm super woman and I would love to think that about myself. And the only thing that I do is I get up and I try every day. And that's been working for me.
01:01:25
Speaker
yeah That's all I got. Wow. You have superpowers for sure, but even Superwoman needs breaks, needs help, and needs space for healing.
Impact of Gun Violence and Self-Care
01:01:40
Speaker
And I hope that you continue to surround yourself with the people and the resources that you need to continue your process of healing. Is there anything that you need from anyone or anything in this world to help you in any aspect of your life? You know, we could think of a million things, but I just wish that young people would think about the effect because they're trying to prove a point to everybody else, but but everybody loses in these situations.
01:02:18
Speaker
When you take a life, you lose your life too. Even though I haven't got justice for Quan, there's no telling what mentally what the person that killed him and the boys that was standing out there with him is going through. But when you take a person's life, you take away a mother's heart You take away a mother's life. You take away your life, your family's life. You take away the siblings of the person that whose life you took because nothing is the same. And you have to live with this hurt every day because you decided that whatever anger you had, whatever,
01:03:16
Speaker
whatever you felt for the person that you killed, that you couldn't walk away and say, it's not worth it.
01:03:24
Speaker
So when these young people out here, they get these guns and they selling them or You know, I just say that I was trying to get something together. That's what I will want. I will want them to either put something on the gun, where even if you tore it apart, you wouldn't be able to fire that weapon. um When people leave their guns in a car, they should be responsible because that's like you murdered that person. You left that gun in that car for somebody to get ahold of that gun and shoot and kill somebody. So yeah, you should be liable some kind of way. You either need to get your license taken away and you won't be able to carry a gun anymore because this is irresponsible.
01:04:15
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. Responsible gun ownership is and and make sense. Like all of it needs to be had for sure, because it is is senseless. We have so many senseless murders and so many senseless passings that could be avoided with just better laws around it and better understanding and and responsibility. So I hear you there. how you how How is your heart right now? ah My heart is on the mend, I feel.
01:04:50
Speaker
um
01:04:53
Speaker
It will forever be broken, but you know I do different things to help my heart. I pour into other people. Um, and then I do little things for myself. I don't have a lot of time, but when I do do things for myself, I feel good about it. and theres some hard thing I like to go get massages. I love to go to massage, give me a massage. okay Sometimes I'll take me a long drive by myself just because those long drives I can hear, I can feel.
01:05:35
Speaker
I can cry. um And that's some of the things that I do. you know i'll take I'll take off, especially if it's early in the morning, I'll take off and try to get away from the traffic. I drove before and I ended up all the way in Atlanta. And I said, well, I got to spend the night here because I'm not driving back. I love that. I love that. Yeah. I mean, it's like just given the time, just go. Well, I want to ah because of just the amount of energy that you poured into this platform and the amount of, you know, love that you share. I want to give you a a massage. So you tell me when and where and the massage is on me. OK.
01:06:24
Speaker
Aw, thank you, nephew. You don't have to do that. Look, I'm going to get your daddy. He's going to be like, you better ask for some help. you wish with But yes. That sounds about right. That sounds about right. My gift to you, because I want you to take care of yourself, and I want you to have something to look forward to, OK? I appreciate that. Absolutely. Aunty, with all the things that you could be doing and all the places that you could be, I appreciate you being here with me, embracing vulnerability. Well, I appreciate you having me. And I said that, you know, as many times as I need to talk about it or help somebody or say something, that's what God said I need to do. So that's what I'm doing.
01:07:11
Speaker
And I'm proud of you. You have so much courage. Look, I appreciate you and I am, I don't want to touch too much on it, but I i just wish that things were better with you and my brother. um And that breaks my heart because I know that my brother, he needs to talk to somebody. I know that he's broken and I know that he's hurting. And y'all all need each other. You know, um, and we talk about that, you know, and I said, you know, you got to do better, bro, because you're going to be this world one day and you're going to have that on your whole heart before you leave this world. And it hurts me so bad because I want, I just know how y'all were.
01:08:12
Speaker
And I'm just hurt by it. You know, I'm just, I'm just really hurt by it. You know what I'm saying? You got to look at my kids. My kids don't have their dad. You out here. You gotta get together. Yeah. You know, I appreciate that. And, you know, we got into a place where it's so much grace and love. So just right here, he's listening. If he ever listens, I love you. I love you. Yeah. Thank you for that. I appreciate you.
01:08:50
Speaker
I'm proud of you. I'm so proud of you. Like I talk about you and I was just telling them, cause I told them, I said, well, I'm not working tomorrow. And they was like, why are you not working? I said, cause I got to do something for my, my nephew. I told him that I'm going to do it and we going to do it. So y'all don't worry about me coming in. because i'm I'm telling y'all now that I'm not coming. So whatever y'all want to do, I need to do. sit out ah appreciate I'm right here with you. I love you so much and I hope you have a great, great rest of your evening. I love you too nephew and thank you so very much. All right, take care. Thank you for joining us for another powerful episode of Vulnerability Muscle. I hope you found inspiration and valuable insights that resonate with you. If you're enjoying this journey of self-discovery and empowerment,
01:09:42
Speaker
There are a few ways you can support the podcast. First, make sure to hit that subscribe button so that you never miss an episode. If you've been moved by our conversations and the mission of redefining vulnerability, please consider leaving a review. Your feedback not only motivates us, but also helps others discover the podcast. Share your thoughts on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you tune in. And don't forget to spread the word. Follow us on Instagram at Vulnerability Muscle for updates. And you can connect me personally at Reggie D Ford on all platforms. Visit VulnerabilityMuscle.com for additional resources and upcoming episodes. And remember, embracing vulnerability is strength. Thanks for being a part of the journey. Until next time, stay empowered, stay vulnerable,
01:10:29
Speaker
and keep flexing that vulnerability muscle.