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Dom Ferris | Trash Free Trails
71 Plays2 days ago
Join us as we chat with Dom Ferris from Trash Free Trails, a community-powered movement aiming to (re)connect people with nature through the simple yet meaningful act of removing single-use pollution from wild places.
We chatted about:
- Why the word 'litter' can be misleading
- How single use pollution, especially drinks containers, are causing death amongst our small animal population
- How a Deposit Return Scheme could revolutionise trail cleanliness.
- The link between nature connection and mental wellbeing.
- Why trail runners are uniquely positioned to lead the charge in protecting our outdoor spaces.
- Simple steps you can take to help keep our trails trash-free.
Whether you’re a runner, cyclist, or outdoors roamer, this conversation will inspire you to make a difference.
Listen now and discover how we can all play a part in keeping our trails beautiful.
https://www.trashfreetrails.org/
Photo credit: Sam Dugon
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Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Hello, welcome to this episode of the UK Run Chat podcast. Today, we're excited to be joined by Dom Ferris from Trash Free Trails, who's going to be telling us all about their latest report and what runners can do to help keep the trails clear of litter. Hi, Dom. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. How are you?
00:00:18
Dom TFT
Hey, Michelle. Yeah, it's ah it's great to be speaking with you and great to be speaking to all of the runners who might be listening and any any mountain bikers or or swimmers who might have snuck in the back door.
00:00:29
UKRunChat
Yeah, I'm sure
Mission and Personal Background
00:00:30
UKRunChat
we've got a few. We've got quite a lot to enjoy, a range of sports who listen in. and So do you want to tell us first of all, a little bit about what Trash Free Trails is and what you're trying to achieve?
00:00:41
Dom TFT
ah Yeah, so Trash Free Trails, we're we're a nonprofit community-led organization, so we're a community interest company. um We are for riders, runners, and roamers. Everyone's welcome. um And ah obviously, the the the issue we're we're we're seeking to address, to tackle, might sound simple. It might sound, you know, might everyone might be thinking, well, yeah, it's just litter, isn't it? It's just trash. Well, actually, for us, what we're trying to tackle, what we believe is the problem, is disconnection.
00:01:09
Dom TFT
So actually the litter, and we don't even call it litter, we call it single-loose pollution and maybe we'll go into that when we talk about the report, but you know the single-loose pollution that we encounter on our trails and the places we love is a symptom of disconnection. um You know for for pretty much imagine every single one of the people listening for for for us to go to a beautiful place or you know even just to our home trail from our front door and to leave single-loose pollution there, to leave pollution there would would feel almost like self-harm. So for someone to be able to do that, there must be a disconnection. So if we can address that,
00:01:48
Dom TFT
create connections, we can we can kind of turn that negative feedback loop around. So yeah, and and and the the way we do that is it is to the then we our mission is to reconnect people to nature, um and this is this is where it comes in really handy, through the simple act of removing single-leaf pollution from the places you love, because the great thing about that, about litter picking, especially in groups,
00:02:12
Dom TFT
in the places you love is that builds community, that sense of contribution builds positivity and it builds connection. So yeah, in a little bit of a nutshell, that's that's who we are, who we're for and and our and and the way we're going to go about creating the change we'd like to create.
00:02:29
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay. So just tell us first of all, like where where did this idea come from then to try and make such a radical change with people's connection to nature? What's your kind of background?
00:02:40
Dom TFT
ah Yeah so um I all kinds of things like so when I was a kid we moved from Birmingham to try the good life um in in Wales and we had a little small holding and chickens and goats and rabbits and ran around without many slash any clothes on during the summer and all that kind of stuff and and and my mum's always been just really naturally connected to the outdoors so I think I've just learned through osmosis there, you know, it's never anything really direct. um And then I was pretty wild as a kid. So I worked outdoors at the time and I got in trouble at school. So I ended up leaving early and going to be an outdoor instructor.
00:03:14
Dom TFT
Um, and again, they're like, I started to have some thoughts along those lines, along the lines of like, well, really we're just sitting on top of the cliff waiting to be chopped off the cliff. Like, why is there nothing happening? You know, ah before then, why is there nothing happening to, you know, engage the kids we're working with, with the places. Uh, then I was really lucky and I went to America and I worked, um, on a summer camps there. Um, and that was um incredible, you know, because actually what that does, it flipped it round is actually the activities with, with the things that you use to spend time together.
00:03:45
Dom TFT
in the outdoors, you know, and these places where you were so thankful to them for the experience they'd given you, you know, like I just laughed my heart out all day in the woods today, you know, like, or just swum in the river with 10 new people that inspired me, you know, so that started to make me think like these places are really powerful.
00:03:59
UKRunChat
Yeah. yeah
00:04:03
Dom TFT
And we're also really responsible for them. You know, I'm, I felt this responsibility towards them. um Yeah. They came back and then, and then actually realized, Oh no, I need, and I haven't
Formative Experiences and Career Path
00:04:14
Dom TFT
got the qualifications. I left school too early. I need to go. So I'm back to university and did surf science and technology in Cornwall and got totally flukey. So I left in 2009, finished in 2009 and then, and then got straight away, got a job.
00:04:27
Dom TFT
Well, there was a little bit of a side story that I won't bore everyone. I almost joined the RAF because I didn't get the job initially.
00:04:31
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:04:33
Dom TFT
But I got a job with Surfers Against Sewage in 2010.
00:04:34
UKRunChat
Oh, fantastic. Yeah.
00:04:38
Dom TFT
And just at that time, the CEO who's left now, but he'd just taken over a chap called Hugo Taghome. And it was almost like a re-start. It was incredible, Surfers Against Sewage, don't get me wrong, but it was like a re-start.
00:04:51
Dom TFT
There was loads of us that were new. And they kind of went, Dom, do you want to run the beach clean? that we do each year it was like one beach clean then and I was like yeah okay cool cool you know and uh and because actually at that time I thought they're gonna fire me soon I don't know I don't know what I'm doing it you know and then then they put me outside and they put me in front of a group of people and I was like I can do this you know and um yeah so so that's that's it I worked for surface against sewage for 10 years um and I ended up as their head of community and engagement so I led the beach cleans and the education the community events um but I'm from mid wales and I grew up in mid wales you know and
00:05:26
Dom TFT
And I'm a lifelong mountain biker and lifelong tree climber. and um And I started to come home um in the 2013-14 period because my dad was terminally ill.
00:05:39
Dom TFT
And I started to mountain biking again with my old friends as a way of decompressing. I didn't really realize at the time, that's what I was doing.
00:05:47
UKRunChat
yeah.
00:05:49
Dom TFT
And I started seeing the same things on trails as I was seeing during my work at Surface Against Sewage. But there was a deafening silence. There was there was no real conversation going on. no Definitely no structured conversation. And actually, if there was a structured conversation, it was really negative. It was really based on blame and shame and guilt, you know littering scumbags, anti-litter campaigns. And that just didn't work for me. like it doesn't It's not how i I don't feel inspired by that. I don't feel energized by that.
00:06:18
UKRunChat
It doesn't really achieve much either, does it Agnes?
00:06:20
Dom TFT
Well, yeah, we'll get into that later. it like the you know Keep it in tidy as 70 years old.
00:06:22
UKRunChat
ah
00:06:25
Dom TFT
Let's put it that way. Anti-litter campaigns are 70 years old. ah yeah so um yeah so So I am um started that thing of
Founding Trash Free Trails
00:06:35
Dom TFT
going, someone should probably do something, do you know?
00:06:37
Dom TFT
And then just a couple of years passed by and conversations and I'm really lucky to have an incredible set of friends, you know, many of them are who are now our volunteer ambassadors for Traffic Trails. I always mention one chap in particular, Ross Lambie, you know, and and my sister, who's one of our directors, who's an ultra runner, you know, they were like, Dom, yeah, we can do this, you know, and and they were like, I'm here for you, I'll support you. And and they've been true to their word. And, you know, loads of little moments happened, like, you know,
00:07:02
Dom TFT
Nothing happened for a while because I got bogged down trying to create an organization and actually realized I should have just started talking about why I wanted to do it, which I did in January 2017. Then I was really busy as SAS.
00:07:17
Dom TFT
Then we didn't have any money, but then kind of in 2019, 2020, we became a CIC and also around that year, obviously lockdown hit and at that time,
00:07:27
UKRunChat
yeah
00:07:29
Dom TFT
um In late 2020, my first employee for Trashy Trails came on board, a chap called Rich Breeden, who's now and my associate director.
00:07:32
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:07:41
Dom TFT
And, you know, we've pretty much, you know, I think we're now up to seven team members, you know, which and with this, you know, and and
00:07:46
UKRunChat
Yeah, well that's amazing. Yeah.
00:07:49
Dom TFT
Yeah, so I don't know, there's loads of little bits I can talk about, but and when we talked about before we started about me not waffling for too long, so I'll pause for a second. And if anyone wants to know about the bits in history I've missed out, then please let us know.
00:07:57
UKRunChat
and
00:08:02
UKRunChat
Yeah, I just want to pick before we get into the the report that you've just published. I just want to pick up on the the disconnection you were talking about because for me, I'm a primarily a trail runner.
00:08:08
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:08:12
UKRunChat
I live kind of right in the West Pennine Moors and I'm always out and I could not feel any more connected to the environment.
00:08:19
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:08:20
UKRunChat
And for me, when when you say the word disconnection,
Nature Connection and Advocacy
00:08:23
UKRunChat
I don't understand how people can be so disconnected. So how how does that happen and how can we kind of change that?
00:08:31
UKRunChat
It's.
00:08:32
Dom TFT
Yeah. Yeah. I think there's, I think there's all goes away. I think, you know, I've not met anyone yet that I've kind of challenged with this question before. And I say, you know, maybe you took need a bit of time to think about it. yeah I don't think you will, but I've had an incredible number of positive role models for,
00:08:47
UKRunChat
yeah
00:08:47
Dom TFT
that have shown me the outdoors, that have shown me how would they behave in the outdoors, um and have done it in a positive way, in a nurturing way. They haven't used blame or shame, you know. um So I didn't get to where I am in terms of thinking about the outdoors without being shown some things.
00:09:03
UKRunChat
yeah
00:09:04
Dom TFT
No one does really, you know you know. Well, very, very few people do, you know. So that's the first thing, is that, you know, that, and then our fellow, an organization we're really we're really good friends with and we work with called Right to Rome,
00:09:17
Dom TFT
This is their data. you know um We have access to less than 8% of the land in the UK.
00:09:24
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:25
Dom TFT
Only 8%. A lot of that isn't really beautiful places. you know This is like little blocks of brownie green grass you know covered in dog poo, or not so much anymore.
00:09:35
Dom TFT
but you know um And that's even less of that is access to the percentage for rivers as well. so You know, and and then you throw in, I think, again, then then you throw in the kind of consumptive nature of life at the moment. So so we're we're kind of we're much better at consuming things than we are contributing, you know, consuming and passing through, um you know, consuming and disposing of experiences and things.
00:10:04
Dom TFT
And I think if you combine all those things together, that that that's one of the ways you know it's it's one of the ways I try to explain to myself what's happening in out in the outdoors. when And again, like you say, you sing loose pollution is this kind of visible sore, visible scab of deeper underlying problems. you know um so that's where i just that's where you start is go, right, how can we give more people more access to nature? actually how can we um How can we curate those experiences with really inspiring people know that actually give them give them
00:10:41
Dom TFT
ideas and thoughts and things that they can take off and use themselves. How do we take nature, how do we take a nature and adventure to them? So not parachuting people into these incredible experiences that they can actually sometimes might make it worse because like I'm never going to be able to afford to go back there again but I've seen the other side now and like it's even more tantalizing you know and like actually how can how can how can we you know give people that kind of adventurous nature connected feeling inside themselves that they can access you know wherever they are um and then I think really also how can we ah can we then also turn those people into active proactive protectors of the outdoors you know so can they how can they help us
00:11:30
Dom TFT
combat, you know, or push through no brainer positive and policy change. So, for example, you aren't, you know, you're not getting in these kids who who've been told by by the system to just buy all that single new stuff, buy it all, get rid of it quickly, you know, ah don't worry about what you do with it. And actually, we've got a deposit return scheme. So they know that that bottle We'll get them 20p back if they go and take it back to the machine.
00:11:56
Dom TFT
you know we We haven't got disposable vapes anymore, so they can't drop them on the trail because they've been banned because they're awful things.
00:11:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:03
Dom TFT
you know like Combine all those things together.
00:12:06
UKRunChat
Yeah. So so really, people need to be out in the environments that they they value it and then want to protect it.
00:12:12
Dom TFT
I think that's online, isn't it? Yeah. It's like, it's actually just need to be able to access these places.
00:12:13
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:16
Dom TFT
And then, and then, but there is a bit more to that for me because I think all too often it's just like, just need to get there. Just need to need to get outside. I think we're also like being taught certain things in school, like being taught to how to be a critical, critical consumer of information, how to, and also how to be a critical, you know, kind of a, um,
00:12:37
Dom TFT
active, proactive, consume, you know, contributor and immerse of nature as opposed to, you know, like someone is just going, I'm going to tick the box. I've been to top of Snowden. There's my social media post, you know.
00:12:50
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. So tell us about your latest report then. It's called The State of Our Trails. And there's some quite alarming findings in there, isn't there?
00:13:02
Dom TFT
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um I think, again, in terms of the history of trash free trails, um when i I was working at surface against sewage and I was, you know, hyper super aware of the importance of evidence.
00:13:14
Dom TFT
you know So when you're trying to create change, ah particularly you know policy policy change, practice industry practice change and culture change, you need to be backed up both initially in the with with scientific evidence to make a case for what you're trying to change. And then you also need to scientifically measure the work you're doing ah towards that change, you know, to essentially hold yourself accountable.
00:13:38
Dom TFT
So, as soon as I started with Trashy Trails, the first thing I thought, well, first thing I realised was there was no science, which is pretty scary. There was, and still is barely, any science whatsoever on the presence, prevalence, impacts of, you know, back then it was, they would call it plastic, single-use pollution on trails.
00:13:56
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:13:59
Dom TFT
um bit of a background on that is that in 2021 there was 1765 papers you know scientific papers that that had somewhere in their title or abstract beach litter beach plastic pollution and there was none for trails so yeah
00:14:18
UKRunChat
Wow. That's very sobering, isn't it? Yeah.
00:14:20
Dom TFT
Yeah, it's free sobering and especially to get even more sobering some of your listeners might know and you might know is that the the the stats that um you know that exist out there is about 12 million tons of plastic flows into the world's oceans every year.
Research and Collaboration
00:14:35
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:36
Dom TFT
There's a there is a ah paper that suggests that it might be up to but between four and 23 times more than that is flowing into our terrestrial ecosystems each year.
00:14:48
Dom TFT
So
00:14:48
UKRunChat
That's terrifying. Yeah.
00:14:49
Dom TFT
um and three times times more so even if it's just four what's that 48 million tons is escaping interest and we don't know what's in we don't know where it is what it is or what impact it's having um so for me it was like oh right okay that's pretty pretty intense but also what an awesome but knowsome opportunity because someone needs to speak up for this you know someone needs to advocate for this
00:15:07
UKRunChat
yeah
00:15:11
Dom TFT
and I know how people have done it because I've got 10 years worth of experience of watching that happen in the marine world so we can kind of stand on the shoulders of giants there. um So I was like right okay minute one first trail clean we do don't lose that data what you know how much do we find what kinds of things do we find and you know what brands that kind of stuff let's let's keep track of that and I literally just used an A4 pad to start with
00:15:35
UKRunChat
yeah
00:15:36
Dom TFT
And very quickly that became for me that the word I use for that was the state of our trails report.
00:15:38
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:41
Dom TFT
um So, so I wanted to I thought right let's let's hold ourselves accountable to our to our mission. with this scientific approach. um you know I said that right at the start.
00:15:53
Dom TFT
ah I've gone through a massive learning process of how sort of of just how scientific. It was probably more like this, but you know more like ah inverted commas scientific to start with.
00:16:01
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:16:02
Dom TFT
But we're there now.
00:16:03
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:16:03
Dom TFT
you know and um yeah and and So then I thought, well, obviously, that's the kind of stuff that can help us. contribute to change, you know, it can help us plug that gap in understanding of um polluting the the the the polluting effects of and single-use products and plastic.
00:16:21
UKRunChat
yeah
00:16:21
Dom TFT
um So i also started to so then i then I actually thought, well, If I'm going to do this, if I'm going to call this scientific, let's maybe see if we can see if you can actually make it an academic project. Let's make contact with the university. And I got totally flukey and met my current master's supervisor in at a workshop in Portugal.
00:16:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:16:45
Dom TFT
I kind of wasn't even meant to be at, I just got invited by my friends. Yeah, so so it was like pretty serendipitous.
00:16:51
UKRunChat
Oh I love moments like that, just moments happen.
00:16:51
Dom TFT
um Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was talking about, I actually said this scientific report, and we're gonna prove this, and they're like, come here, you know? Firstly, we don't prove things in science.
00:17:02
Dom TFT
And so, you know, like that kind of thing. And I was like, okay, okay, yeah. and there yeah ah So kind of fast forward, really, and we're we've just published our fourth annual um state of our trials report. We've kind of changed the title of the project because we realized actually the thing we do each year is the report. The overarching thing is our state of our trials research program.
00:17:23
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:24
Dom TFT
And actually this year is the first year that we've split too, so we've actually got two research programmes going on now. One that focuses on single-use pollution, and that's through Bangor University, and one that focuses on nature connection, and that's going to be through next year going to start through Edinburgh and Napier University.
00:17:33
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:42
Dom TFT
And I'm quite excited because what we're going to do is we're going to look at the, we call it prevalence, so how much trash is out there and where it is.
00:17:50
UKRunChat
yeah
00:17:51
Dom TFT
And we're going to look at nature connection, how much nature connection is out there and where it is.
00:17:55
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:55
Dom TFT
And we're going to compare the two. We're going to look at like, what does the trash consist of? So like what types, brands, same for nature connection. What does it consist of? What's it made up of?
00:18:06
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:06
Dom TFT
What's its components? And then also then what are the positive and negative impacts of them both?
Advocacy for Policy Change
00:18:12
Dom TFT
And obviously we're hoping that if we can increase nature connection, we can decrease single-use pollution. um That's the that's the the very high-level theory. So so yeah so yes, you said right you start they asked the question right at the start about we've just published the report. um it's um It's quite alarming and and also this is this is really quite a proud moment for us and for me in that I didn't ah knew that we weren't in the position to start with to actually like start mixing rubbing shoulders with the big organisations
00:18:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:46
Dom TFT
you know because our data wasn't good enough and we didn't have enough of it and I felt like if we tried to contribute we'd have kind of made fools of ourselves and and and not been invited to play again you know so we waited we waited like right okay it feels about right now we're really confident in our data and we're confident in what what you know what we think needs to be done. um And this year we got invited to join the, it's kind of an informal um coalition of organisations, including Surfers Against Sewage, Marine Conservation, Keep Britain Tidy, ah Reloop, loads of cool organisations working, they've been campaigning for like, I think they started in 2010, 14 years for the deposit return scheme.
00:19:26
Dom TFT
and they invited us to join and it was like ah and fresh blood we're all a bit tired can you help out you know and uh so that's that we've been joining with that and we've got some events coming up in Westminster around that with them and and we were thinking what should we write our report about this year it's like actually we're there it's time to focus it you know it's time to go.
00:19:45
Dom TFT
We know that drinks containers, if you look at it, think of it like a pie, you know, the the single-loose pollution makeup like a pie, it's actually a massive slice of the pie. So let's target one of those slices and see if we can remove that from the thing and suddenly we can we can create this significant reduction.
00:20:02
Dom TFT
We can move towards our our
00:20:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:20:04
Dom TFT
Our mission, you know, ah kind of our our objective. And so yes, you right. Okay, let's focus on that um deposit returns keep containers so drinks single use drinks bottles and cans. And that's, that's what we thought we'd focus it on. um and then we would thought, well, okay, what's the what the compelling ah emotional um story we can tell with that? and Because again, that's another thing that we've learned through following the marine conservation, marine plastic pollution thing is, you know, ah Blue Planet 2, for example,
00:20:37
Dom TFT
um you had That was a massive moment for the marine plastics movement because they had their mother um the mother whale with a dead calf um with ah ah a bit of plastic attached to them and it wasn't clear but it looked like that calf had died through ingestion and entanglement.
00:20:42
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:20:56
Dom TFT
horrible you know but but it was incredibly powerful for the campaign and it triggered a lot of things that we're so we're still seeing the positive effects of now so is that right okay what what's our version of that charismatic animal you know and um and what we've started to realize and what's backed up by other studies is through our data we've started to realize that a so and pretty significant number of of small mammals are dying um from entrapment
00:20:57
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's awful.
00:21:25
Dom TFT
um in the drinks containers that we're finding so yeah yeah because i mean especially like glass bottles or any open bottles they're really great places to go in for well firstly they're they're seeking shelter second and or they're hunting out the high energy food um liquid still at the bottom so for a good example is like yazoo bottles are like a death trap because there's
00:21:29
UKRunChat
Yeah. So the seeking shelter in them are there. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:44
UKRunChat
yeah
00:21:51
Dom TFT
they they go in there and and yeah and so essentially about 33% sorry 30% of the surveys the people who answer the question um in the survey so it's about 450 of our surveys out of 900 have answered this question and those who answered it 30% have seen animal interaction so that's different types of animal interaction and 8% of those 450 have reported animal death
00:22:21
UKRunChat
that's so sad
00:22:22
Dom TFT
yeah through entrapment and and and these are and the next step of that is like we're in the middle of like a biodiversity crisis and even though a lot of people might go well mice you know they're annoying in my house but the mice bankroll shrews we're finding a lot of these are keystone species in the ecosystem and yeah yeah yeah so
00:22:41
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's so important in the food chain eye for bigger, bigger moments. Yeah.
00:22:47
Dom TFT
And that they're important for the food chain of those places that we love.
00:22:50
UKRunChat
yeah
00:22:50
Dom TFT
you know they're They're important for the the feeling of nature. you know So again, why why what why why is it so important? And then what's most most upsetting and and angering about this is it's completely unnecessary.
00:23:03
Dom TFT
The deposit return scheme exists in over 40 countries and around the world. In most of them, it has like, like well Germany has a 98% recovery rate. So you just do not see drinks and dinners anywhere.
00:23:12
UKRunChat
Yeah. Wow.
00:23:15
Dom TFT
Yeah and and um and and so it's unnecessary and we've been talking about having one in the UK since 2017.
00:23:15
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:23
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it's amazing that we don't, we I do remember this when I was a kid, we used to have the pop man would come, you'd buy your pop and then you'd writtenly come the following week and you'd give your bottles back and he'd give you some money back, wouldn't he?
00:23:27
Dom TFT
yeah
00:23:33
Dom TFT
yeah yeah we find we still find because I love retro rubbish we call it retro rubbish or vintage litter and one of the things I love finding is the old glass bottles with the corona 5p corona top on um I've got one I've got a Tizer one as well with a yeah yeah so that's it so that's the way I love that too is like you know that we've done this you know um a little bit of a sad thing
00:23:37
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:41
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:46
UKRunChat
Oh, Tizer, yeah.
00:23:53
UKRunChat
Yeah, we know how it works, don't we? Yeah.
00:23:56
Dom TFT
yeah Yeah, we know how it works, um you know and um we're used to it, and it's something that we all smile about as well. like um so yeah So what's exciting now is that that is, um so just literally two days ago, I think it was yesterday, um keep it in tidy, ah put out a press release with us included, and the UK government have laid the regulations for the deposit return scheme, which means it is actually now happening.
00:24:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:24:19
UKRunChat
That's brilliant. Yeah.
00:24:21
Dom TFT
It says October, 2027, we're gonna have a deposit return scheme.
00:24:21
UKRunChat
That's fantastic.
00:24:25
Dom TFT
And almost like, again, I'm talking to you in the listeners, and our job now is to be, is our job literally is positive PR for the deposit return fee.
00:24:32
UKRunChat
Yes. Okay.
00:24:34
Dom TFT
Because the thing that can bring it, the thing that can mean it not be brought in, is if we allow if we allow negative PR to erupt around it. um If we erupt, for example, it didn't come in Scotland last year, and one of the main reasons was it gotlit it got politicised.
00:24:51
Dom TFT
So the lobby that didn't want it to come in, realized they could attach it to the downfall of the SMP. It then had this massive negative stigma to it and and all the House of Cards fell down. um So for us, it's like, right, our job is to make sure that everyone knows what it is, knows how valuable it can be, has an honest and open conversation about some of the initial inconveniences, but also presents the, we'll look at the current inconveniences for for our environment and the things that call it home.
00:25:23
Dom TFT
um and and help communicate throughout the the teething period. you know So Ireland have had one since February and they had some teething peer teasing problems at the start, but now, I think they've got about a 75% approval rating for it.
00:25:30
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:25:37
Dom TFT
um Hundreds of millions of bottles have been through the system.
00:25:37
UKRunChat
That's amazing. Yeah.
00:25:40
Dom TFT
Loads of money has gone to charity already because if you don't claim your deposit back, um the money goes to charity.
00:25:46
UKRunChat
yeah Wow.
00:25:47
Dom TFT
So the companies don't keep it so you pay 20p and even if you see if you just put your bottle in landfill You know in your landfill bin, which will happen that 20p goes to charities Yes, so so that's that's also kind of nice it's a bit like with the 5p bag charge All that goes to um charity as well Yeah
00:25:56
UKRunChat
Right. Okay.
00:26:04
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:26:07
UKRunChat
Yeah. So there's an incentive and for people, well, in a few years time, there'll be an incentive, a monetary incentive for people to return them. So what percentage of and the, the, i'll I'll use the term single use pollution on the trails were drink cans and bottles.
00:26:22
UKRunChat
And do you have the data
00:26:22
Dom TFT
Oh
Impact of Litter and Solutions
00:26:23
Dom TFT
yeah, so so it's 33%, which is crazy.
00:26:23
UKRunChat
on that?
00:26:25
UKRunChat
Yeah. Wow. That's huge.
00:26:26
Dom TFT
Yeah. a third literally exactly a third of the items and that's again that's what that's been interesting too because we had two scientists working on the data with us and they slightly disagreed and they and and then we had to decide which which one to go with you know it's like well i'm using this approach you know and i'm using this set of data and i'm using that okay which one do i go with you know um but that's that's great and again if anyone reads it and they go well okay what was that disagreement you can read our workings we always put our workings up as well so if you go online and you
00:26:27
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:26:53
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:26:55
Dom TFT
look at our report online you can you can see a document says that says here we show you our workings um but yeah 33 percent of them um and you know like i say you know if we all of a sudden we could just have and and that's that's just by number you know by volume it's higher isn't it because they're big um and and then by impact it's bigger as well you know it's definitely if you're looking at negative impact pollute well here we go so
00:27:12
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:27:22
Dom TFT
Again, if you look at look up the definition of pollution, I won't do it, but its essentially everyone can pretty much imagine more or less what it is. um and These things, these items, particularly bottles, meet that definition because they are causing harm, they are deleterious to the environment, right? So it meets that definition.
00:27:42
Dom TFT
And then if you look at our data, we ask a question of the people who do their surveys. ah What percentage of the items that you found worse would you say were single-use products? um And that's at about 81%. So 81% of the stuff we find seeing is single-use products.
00:28:01
Dom TFT
It's causing harm. That's why we've come to this idea this this this belief that single-use pollution is the most accurate term for it.
00:28:09
UKRunChat
yeah
00:28:09
Dom TFT
If we call it plastic, we're missing glass and cams and other stuff like that. you know And I know from finding dead animals in glass bottles. so So suddenly you can't talk about them if you've got stuck with plastics.
00:28:22
Dom TFT
um And I won't even go into litter, but maybe if everyone looks at the looks at and and a book called Gone Tomorrow and about the formation of um and keep britain Keep America Beautiful in 1953, it was formed by an alliance of big drinks companies.
00:28:36
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:44
Dom TFT
So keep britain tight Keep America Beautiful was formed by drinks companies as a way of diverting attention from from the the growing problem of their single-use products escaping.
00:28:54
UKRunChat
Oh, that's naughty, isn't it? Yeah, let's give that one a read.
00:28:56
Dom TFT
Yep. Yeah, yeah they they they invented the term litter bug.
00:29:01
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:29:03
Dom TFT
So they had what they call working groups, is it? and Focus groups.
00:29:05
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, the focus.
00:29:06
Dom TFT
that's Yeah, but and as they invented the litter bug, they designed the angry, if you look, if you again Google image litter bug, it's a really angry bee type thing. and And that's a deliberate ploy that they use in and oil, lobby, you know, cigarettes as well during the cigarette bans and things. they They use that as a way of shifting the blame.
00:29:32
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:29:32
UKRunChat
yeah
00:29:33
Dom TFT
So, so, yeah. And I don't like using that term because it feels so fraudulent to me, you know. um And then if you pass forward to to now, like people say litter and they think young scumbag or something, do you know, like, yeah.
00:29:45
UKRunChat
Yeah, there is an image that springs to mind, isn't there?
00:29:47
Dom TFT
Yeah and a really cool one is we did ah we did a river clean on, so we were at Kendall Mountain Festival on the weekend and we did a series of activities and we did a um river clean alongside our friends at Save Our Rivers and EOCCA and the local local groups um and one person correct and the night before my colleagues had been on the panel and they'd been asked this question
00:29:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:53
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:09
Dom TFT
Isn't it just kids dropping? you know Isn't it just kids? and is ah And the next morning I was like, I wish the panel was this evening. So this one of our friends was cleaning, and we were cleaning alongside the river and we went past the old people's home. And underneath the window of one of the one of the rooms, a full bottle, ah sorry, a full packet of Werther's originals with with every single empty wrapper stuffed in.
00:30:38
Dom TFT
So it's like, so it's all young kids, isn't it? It's like, yeah, yeah, I don't think so, no. But, you know, that's the thing. It's like, firstly, that the the the the danger of stereotyping and scapegoating.
00:30:51
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:51
Dom TFT
Firstly, if those kids hear you, they're never gonna listen to you again, because you, they're like, well, screw you then, you know? um And secondly, it isn't just kids, you know? ah Look at the verges after a windy night before recycling day.
00:31:07
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. this list Just rubbish and cardboard and paper everywhere, isn't that?
00:31:07
Dom TFT
You know, um, the same.
00:31:09
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:31:13
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:31:13
Dom TFT
Yeah. So yeah, I realized it's 31 minutes, so I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to be a good boy. Yeah.
00:31:23
UKRunChat
So, I mean, have you um heard from many runners during your report?
00:31:27
Dom TFT
yeah
00:31:28
UKRunChat
How many, how many runners have got involved?
00:31:28
Dom TFT
Oh, I mean, so we really are right. Riders, runners, roamers, you know, start started off.
00:31:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:31:35
Dom TFT
as a mountain biker, you know ah but I'm also a runner. and um I'm not very good at it and I've got a bad ankle, but yeah, you know ah for us really, I think if I split it out, I would just say, well, firstly, to answer your question directly, loads.
00:31:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:31:50
UKRunChat
yeah
00:31:50
Dom TFT
I think we we do ask the question, and what activity was the main activity of the group you were surveying with? And run and walk is is by far the highest proportion.
00:32:00
UKRunChat
yeah okay
00:32:01
Dom TFT
So that's the first one. Um, you know, and the second one really, I suppose, if I was to say, if I was to just be only able to use one of those words, you know, rider, runner, Roma, it would be Roma because it's that feeling that I think is the most important one to protect and also to draw upon as fuel, you know, like that, that feeling we get, um, in those special moments of flow, you know?
00:32:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:22
Dom TFT
Uh, yeah.
00:32:24
UKRunChat
Yeah, I like that term, actually. I think that's what I consider myself as, because I both run and work. I like the word rumour.
00:32:29
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:32:29
UKRunChat
and Yeah, I see a lot of and fly tipping um and on the roads up to my local routes on the moor.
00:32:33
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:32:38
UKRunChat
And that always makes me really angry because that seems very intentional.
00:32:38
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:32:43
UKRunChat
um And I think the word single use pollution does sound more intentional than just littering, doesn't it?
00:32:43
Dom TFT
yeah
00:32:50
UKRunChat
So
00:32:51
Dom TFT
yeah well that but that that that's um so Firstly, thats we try our very best to stay focused on trails because it's a belief, you know it's part of our our approach, philosophy, is' not but it's not me saying this is fact for everyone, but it's a belief that if you dilute yourself too much,
00:32:56
UKRunChat
yeah
00:32:59
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:33:09
Dom TFT
um Firstly, if you go too far away from what you're truly passionate about, you start you start to lose a little bit of that energy that you've got, that natural energy you've got to tackle something.
00:33:13
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:33:18
Dom TFT
And also it's exhausting. cause the you know on the hour on a address So if you compare it to beaches, on our trails, we're the tide.
00:33:20
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:28
Dom TFT
you know The only way, unless it's blown in like a helium balloon or something, which does happen, or or it's farm wrap, which again is low percentage of the overall. less Other than that, it's it's someone who's set foot on that section of trail, has dropped that trail.
00:33:42
UKRunChat
Yeah, we're carrying it, in aren't we? Yeah, yeah.
00:33:44
Dom TFT
Yeah, so actually we've got a far easier, it's not easy, but a far easier job than marine, beach, streets, rivers, because they're struggling with transboundary.
00:33:51
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:57
Dom TFT
And then you go to urban stuff, fly tipping, it's a business plan.
00:34:06
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:06
Dom TFT
It's literally a business plan.
00:34:07
UKRunChat
It is, isn't it? Yeah.
00:34:08
Dom TFT
like That's very different to to you know allowing it to allowing a rapper to accidentally fall out your pocket when you're really tired, you know or being a bit annoyed because you didn't make a plan for the fact there's no bins.
00:34:18
UKRunChat
yeah yeah
00:34:22
Dom TFT
you know though ah yeah and and and the And the removing of it as well. But the great thing is with our report, is that we can ask people to you know we're in the other section of um the report you can say well actually I come across a massive fly tipping section and then we'll have their postcode.
00:34:42
Dom TFT
and the trail location and we can notify local council.
00:34:45
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:47
Dom TFT
flight tipping so So again you can do that but actually that's the main thing really is just if you see it take a snap of it because then you've got meta you got metadata on your photo and then just send that photo to the council um because the more we can
00:34:47
UKRunChat
yeah
00:34:52
UKRunChat
Just reporting. Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:00
Dom TFT
the more we can at least the more we can document it and the more positive pressure we can apply the more they might do it because and and then again just to just to flip across to what I talked about without other research the net connection research that's why it's so important right because if we only collected data on um on the litter then all you'd get really is people being angry about the litter and about the fly tipping
00:35:10
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:21
Dom TFT
um but we wouldn't be that wouldn't be really been that proactive about what impact is it having on people.
00:35:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:35:26
Dom TFT
you know it So actually it might completely demolish your enjoyment of that place that day, which means you don't have any connection to it, which means you don't find it a problem to litter it.
00:35:40
Dom TFT
Um, because that's the thing, you know, and if, if, if there's things that inhibit nature connection, that, that, that keeps the negative feedback loop going,
Engagement with the Running Community
00:35:51
Dom TFT
isn't it?
00:35:51
Dom TFT
It's in other words.
00:35:52
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it's yeah it's it's interesting you say that. i've just a Thoughts just occurred to me that on our local trails, most people obviously use them often and they will look after them and they will mostly carry litter home with them.
00:36:04
UKRunChat
and But in where there's been a race, for example, I have on occasion had to pick up dropped energy gel wrappers.
00:36:07
Dom TFT
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:12
Dom TFT
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:36:14
UKRunChat
And I guess they're the people who don't usually run on those trails so they're not feeling that connection. a that That kind of makes sense to me now.
00:36:22
Dom TFT
yeah Yeah, that's interesting.
00:36:24
UKRunChat
and it's It's obvious when you think about it, isn't it?
00:36:25
Dom TFT
i think Again, I'd love to know scientifically or, you know, empirically, but my, my theory, because I think about this kind of, you know, obviously think about this stuff quite a lot is that, is that again, this so this is, um, yeah, firstly, that totally agree.
00:36:38
Dom TFT
I think no connection. Secondly, um One thing so I went to the we do mountain bike races, you know me and I do before and after surveys and we do that I'm running races too and I did a two-day enduro in Northumbria so like this place has never ridden normally and and I found maybe
00:36:51
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:36:57
Dom TFT
you know, 70% more on race day than I did on practice day, because people had flicked into a different frame of mind.
00:37:00
UKRunChat
yeah
00:37:05
Dom TFT
This is more, that's why COVID went up. Because basically, all bets are off COVID, COVID is the most important thing.
00:37:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:12
Dom TFT
So again, that's, that's one part is it kind of like, people, people, and and then if you throw in marketing, you know, and role modeling, so all you're seeing is these hyper athletes, particularly cyclists,
00:37:25
Dom TFT
tearing, gelling and plucking, then you're, I'm a racer today, that's why, that's how I behave, you know, it's all social norming.
00:37:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:31
Dom TFT
And and ah yeah, so actually it's great that you mentioned, because I imagine you're going to ask soon, we're going to talk a little bit about what can people do specifically.
00:37:40
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:41
Dom TFT
So I talked to you about how the data is now given us confidence to move more into the kind of support, you know, joining in with campaigns, because I wouldn't say that we're leading on any, we're just contributing to them. So that's deposit return scheme. um And then there's also a thing called extended producer responsibility ah legislation that's come in. It's kind of is what it says in the tin, like they need to be doing more and now it's law that they do more. And next year, forgive me if there's any gel companies learning, listening as the first time you hear of this, but next year we're going to be beginning beginning a grassroots petition um or a grassroots survey to to assess whether
00:38:20
Dom TFT
our fellow trail users are as angry about the fact that we find a lot of gel ends especially um on our trails as we are and whether whether they think that gel companies should do more to prevent that um and the thing is there is a solution to it so there is also a technological precedent so a number of gel companies companies talk and especially have a retention strap yeah
00:38:43
UKRunChat
They do, I've seen a few of those now. Yeah, there are a few brands using them.
00:38:47
Dom TFT
asking So our campaign essentially as you that is asking asking people at all the events we go to next year So hopefully some of your runners will see it see our tent Events like the Great Lake that will be at Great Lakeland for three day GL 3d as it was your 40 The Great Lakeland big one dragons back.
00:38:47
UKRunChat
Yeah, so that, yeah.
00:39:03
Dom TFT
Maybe we've got some conversation but with them And and yeah, so and We'll be asking them whether they would be willing whether they would and want to put their signature towards a petition to um encourage gel companies to all adopt this retention strap.
00:39:22
Dom TFT
Because essentially it's very, very tricky slash near impossible to not drop that gel end.
00:39:29
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:39:30
Dom TFT
If you're using the product as they promote it, as they market it, it's very difficult to not litter, which is ah which is a breach of EPR.
00:39:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:39:39
Dom TFT
legislation so we've got a little lever to pull on now and yeah and and then we have a hashtag with that it's the it's the probably the closest we come to blaming but it's just quite funny i think but well some people do is uh don't be a gel end so it's yeah
00:39:51
UKRunChat
Don't be a challenge.
00:39:54
Dom TFT
yeah sort
00:39:54
UKRunChat
It's catchy. I like it.
00:39:57
Dom TFT
and there we go it's good good reaction whether it's just polite i don't know but we'll see ah but yes yeah so so we'll we'll go with that next year and that's you know obviously deposit return scheme or um you know, other things are like systemic, you know, they're, they're everywhere.
00:40:15
Dom TFT
Whereas for that's something that's specific to us. There's something that only really firstly, only really trail users would notice.
00:40:22
UKRunChat
Yes.
00:40:22
Dom TFT
And secondly, only really trail users can initially build that ground as well. You know, because we need that set of a thousand signatures to say, look, yeah, people want this. Now, now we've got that kind of permission from our community to to begin more focused work on it.
00:40:38
UKRunChat
Yeah, well, do do let us know when that work starts and we'll we'll do our best to help spread the word as well. I'm sure lots of our communities are involved.
00:40:44
Dom TFT
Yeah, we'll be launching out at the start. So next year, we've got our event season is called Trash Free Races.
00:40:50
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:40:50
Dom TFT
So yeah, it'd be great if we could send you the kind of press release around that.
00:40:54
UKRunChat
Yeah, absolutely, keep us posted.
00:40:54
Dom TFT
and
00:40:55
UKRunChat
Yeah, I'd be interested to see how it goes and help where we can. and So you mentioned the deposit return scheme earlier and that we have to kind of tread carefully so as not to politicize it too much.
00:41:07
UKRunChat
What can we practically do as a community to help with that? How can we advocate for it? What can we do?
00:41:14
Dom TFT
Yeah, okay. so what i mean Really, it's just talking about it positively, if that makes sense.
00:41:20
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:21
Dom TFT
you know I think it it kind of is as simple as that. um you know and and it ties in with what you could do to support our wider single-use pollution mission is obviously for us it's always you know the simple thing is there is there is still a huge amount of single-use pollution out on our trails so that's the first thing is is wherever you can whenever you can grab a handful a bread bag full a bin bag full um
00:41:46
UKRunChat
i've I've generally got dog poo bags with me because I'm usually with my dogs.
00:41:48
Dom TFT
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Maybe you should use dog poo bags.
00:41:50
UKRunChat
easy yeah
00:41:51
Dom TFT
like because we Yeah.
00:41:52
UKRunChat
but
00:41:52
Dom TFT
And then we've recently got, uh, so then do that. And even if you do that, that's totally fine. Right. But the next one you could do is you could, if you, you know, if you have limited time, you could go, well, all right, well today I'm going to, I'm going to put a number of the drinks containers in the recycling.
00:42:08
UKRunChat
yeah
00:42:08
Dom TFT
Because I can can actually you know ah could make my my contribution even more positive there, a little bit more positive there. And then you go, I can take a photo of my bag and you know with the bottles by the side of it um and make a social media post about something along the lines of, I really can't wait for the deposit return scheme to come in in 2027. I'm not going to find these on my trails anymore.
00:42:30
Dom TFT
you know that kind that kind of simple post, then you could, if you wanted to, um you know tag us in, so then we can repost that you know and tell us where you are.
00:42:32
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:42:38
Dom TFT
So like, you know Michelle on her trails and the Pennines really looking forward to seeing no DR, just slowly, it just builds that grassroots. If
Community Involvement and Conclusion
00:42:47
Dom TFT
you then also submit your data, so if anyone anyone does, we've we've got a new form now called Trash Survey Light, it takes less than
00:42:54
UKRunChat
Oh, okay. So we can submit our own data to your website.
00:42:56
Dom TFT
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:57
UKRunChat
That's brilliant.
00:42:58
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:42:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:42:58
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:42:59
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:42:59
Dom TFT
That's it. All of the data we've got is from citizen scientists and volunteers. Yeah. So you go on the website and on my home page it says report your trash data. ah Click on that and it takes you at this moment in time to add trash survey light.
00:43:12
Dom TFT
And that takes one minute to do. It's the simplest one you can do. And and and and what it does is you might notice that you're like, well, I'm not told you how many items. Well, actually we've counted how many items fit in about 15 bread bags.
00:43:24
Dom TFT
So then we can do that in the back end. So you can do that. And then maybe, like you know what? Actually, we're there. I want to organize. I want to join in with Trashy Trails' Earth Day Spring Clean. And I want to organize a community cleanup.
00:43:37
Dom TFT
So actually, you could do that. And then you could do a proper, and you know a proper a full trash survey. So then you you then you follow our citizen science training tools on our website.
00:43:42
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:43:47
Dom TFT
And you can learn how to do a proper one. um
00:43:49
UKRunChat
Oh, this sounds good. So you could get your running club involved, for example, in doing that.
00:43:52
Dom TFT
Yeah.
00:43:53
UKRunChat
Is that on a specific day? Can that be any time?
00:43:56
Dom TFT
ah No, we can do any time like and and but we just find it's really nice when we try and like corral everyone into one period because then it's then the great thing about that is you get the benefits from a as a PR point of view, you know, everyone like this weekend x thousand riders runners aromas came out and and what we're gonna do so that again, you can help with the DRS campaign is that off we're going to focusing our Earth Day spring clean on drinks containers and then we're going to use all of the data and the bottles we find so we're going to keep those bottles and we're going to do a big stunt at Westminster or around World Environment Day and where essentially we're essentially we're going to take thousands of bottles to outside parliament and we're going to you know that kind that kind of thing you know just a bit it'll probably now now they've laid the regulations it'll probably be more of a positive celebration thing it's like
00:44:29
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:44:38
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay.
00:44:43
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:44:44
Dom TFT
Yeah, we in two years time, we won't find these anymore. But for now, we brought them back to you. Do you know that kind of thing?
00:44:49
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:44:50
Dom TFT
um Yeah, and and then that's it. And then if you've got like, and then if you've got people who are listening, so for example, too, we've also got um a team of volunteer ambassadors that we're always welcoming people to come say, you know, what I'd i really like to like to be considered for that, you know, there's a currently got a 40 of those all over the country, but we're always hoping to meet people who might be perfect for that role.
00:45:13
Dom TFT
If you've got clubs with actual buildings, bricks and mortar, we've got a thing called community hubs. and they're kind of the bricks and mortar version of um of the ambassadors so so you could be a cafe you could be a shop you could be a a gym a gym or whatever you know and you and you could say yeah i'd like to be a trash free trails hub a community hub and then you and then there's we've got loads of cool resources you can have um there and then we train you train you up and that kind of stuff and the great way about that is sometimes you get
00:45:27
UKRunChat
Right.
00:45:45
Dom TFT
a local community, a community hub, and an A-teamer all running an event together. And each of them having these unique things that they bring to the party. Yeah, so <unk>s ah there's a few options.
00:45:58
UKRunChat
Oh, loads of options there. Yeah, so if if you're listening out there and want to get involved, and do get in touch with Trash Free Trails. How do people get in touch with you? Where are you on social media? What's your website?
00:46:08
Dom TFT
ah yeah So trashfreetrails.org um is our website and you can you can contact us through there. um where um We're really active on Instagram and Facebook so we're just trashfreetrails on those too and you can also drop any of us an email. So mine my my name is Dom and it's Dom at trashfreetrails.org. We've got Rich at Rach at Lee at ah You can Heather at SJ at you can contact. So we've also got a YouTube channel to which we're trying to use more and more now because we we want to provide people with the inspiration and information and tools to do it themselves. So we think we're trying to provide a lot of like informational tutorial content for people.
00:46:49
Dom TFT
So yeah, that's it. just be And always when i listen when i do the you know always when I do these things, it's always so cool just to hear from someone. So if if you've heard what I've said and you've got ideas, if you've got constructive criticism, you know um it's just so important for us. We're completely, really reliant on the donation of time and talent and passion of volunteers who love their trails. So so please get in touch if you feel like you'd help us try to achieve our mission of cleaner, safer, happier, healthier trails.
00:47:18
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's brilliant. Thank you so much, Dom, for your time today. I've certainly learned a lot, um especially about the Deposit Return Scheme. That's fantastic news. And if you out there want to help out or get involved in any way, then do get in touch. And that's it for today's episode. We hope you've enjoyed listening and we'll see you on the next one.