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Episode 77: Back And To The Left
49 Plays6 years ago
This week the boys are talking Derrick as a cult leader, Fyter Fest, the JFK assassination, Super Humman, the Eric Bischoff/Paul Heyman takeover and a story about The Killers not being very nice.
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Transcript
Cult Leader Joke and Its Aftermath
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Predetermined, a Pro Wrestling Hangout. I'm your host, Garrett Callender, and with me, as always, a man who I think would make an excellent cult leader. Derek Halpin. Like Jim Jones? Or... What? That's not a compliment. Does a cult have to be bad?
00:00:23
Speaker
In my mind, yeah. Yeah, I think that's got a negative connotation to it, but I mean... It does, and I'm glad you're now figuring that out after you say that I would be a good cult leader. I'm saying that it does have a negative connotation, but I'm saying you can treat this power however you like.
00:00:40
Speaker
Well, I would like to think that I would be responsible. You see, now I would disband the cult. That's not what I want. I want us to have very, you know, independent thinking, you know, like good podcast listeners at best. I don't want a cult. You force this awkwardness out. Like what the fuck kind of way to start an episode is this.
00:01:01
Speaker
And the first thing, because we're doing a pro wrestling podcast, I'm like, oh, like Cult of Personality? Is that what you're getting at here? CM Punk's entrance music? No. You're saying that I would be a fucking asshole and would turn people into sheep and have them at my beck and call. That's what you... Why would you do a podcast with somebody you feel that way about? See, I really thought I was paying you a compliment as a good leader, but I didn't know... No!
00:01:32
Speaker
Well, if you're going to pay a compliment, I see I put you over last week as being a good wrestling fan and this is how you repay me. I truly thought I was doing a good deed. But do you believe it? You think I would be a good cult leader or was that just I think you have a charismatic personality that could convince people to do things. Well, I've never introduced somebody to you that didn't like you.
00:01:57
Speaker
You see, that can't be true. Some of your friends at some point had to have said, I don't see it, Garrett. You shouldn't be doing the podcast with that guy. No one has said that to me yet. And maybe it's just politeness. Thank you for the yet. Well, I just want to be upfront with you that I would join your cult.
Movie Comparisons and Podcast Chemistry
00:02:17
Speaker
Thanks. I love you too. I saw the movie Midsummer last night. That's why I just got cults on the mind, man.
00:02:23
Speaker
You know, I saw the trailer for that, and the first thing I thought was, this looks like a spin-off from The Wicker Man. To me, it was as if Ari Aster looked at Wicker Man and said, I bet I could make that pretty good. Is that what you came out of it feeling? He definitely made a movie that doesn't make you feel great about yourself. Did you see Hereditary?
00:02:47
Speaker
I didn't. Good God. I feel like you talked me out of seeing it. Because you don't like feeling sad? No, I just think that you kind of picked up on the vibe that I was going into it expecting a straight up horror movie and you were like it's not that. I think at this point I would honestly tell you I think you need to watch it and I put it at the same level as like The Exorcist.
00:03:11
Speaker
All right, it's really enough. It's grown on me there. Hey, you know what? We actually have a shit ton of wrestling to talk about this week. I did enjoy Midsummer. Don't take that as me telling you you need to go see it. It is very long and there is a high chance a lot of you might hate it.
00:03:27
Speaker
I don't know what that says. Go see it, maybe join a cult. What would our cult be called? Join the cult of predetermined. Yes. The sofa cult. The couch cult. I don't know. The couch cult, the alliteration gets you hard. Yeah. Unless we spell couch with, no. Nope. Nope. All right. Casting couch. Join our cult, hit our goddamn music.
00:04:26
Speaker
We may have just finally given the listeners our worst intro to date. I think I agree with that. That was terrible. If anyone's like, have you ever thought maybe we got off on the wrong foot right at the start of this? I thought I paid you a compliment.
Wrestling as a Cult and Streaming Challenges
00:04:45
Speaker
You took it as an insult. I think we really threw the the chemistry off today. And by they I would like.
00:04:52
Speaker
I would like to explain before we move on to the things we're supposed to talk about. Maybe I took offense to it because you know how I feel about organized religion and you know how I feel about cults. And to hear you say that, hey, or Derek, you could do that, you know? Not to continue this talk about cults, but you have never specifically said to me, not a fan. Of cults? I mean, I guess you can just assume you don't like cults, but... Yeah, cults freak me out.
00:05:21
Speaker
Are you telling me that, like, us following wrestling promotions around? Isn't Colt like me just following the Young Bucks blindly? I feel like a Colt has to involve, like, a central figurehead leader. Who's ours? We spend so much time on this show not being loyal and talking shit about Vince McMahon. But at the same time...
00:05:43
Speaker
Even while everything was shitty, you and I got Survivor Series to stick it so like, we're still giving a money. But you know what, you know what, you are actually a part of Vince's cult because you wait until the show gets its absolute shittiest.
00:05:58
Speaker
And you'll pay attention when it's at its worst. And then when it's kind of interesting and good stuff's going on, you're like, huh, I'm gonna go watch New Japan for three weeks. And you won't talk about it. And then suddenly when Bobby Lashley is squashing the future on Raw, you're like, let's go check this out. Like, what the fuck? I tune in. I'm like, what's Shane McMahon up to? Oh, that's cool. He's like in seven segments every week. You get what you deserve.
00:06:27
Speaker
It was a pretty good week for wrestling though. Man, I am really fucking excited to talk about Fighter Fest. You got a chance to see the whole show? Yeah, I was texting you while it was going on. Well, fucking kayfabe it Derek, like we hadn't already talked about some of this.
00:06:49
Speaker
I'm sorry. I didn't realize we were trying to put on an act. Yeah. You know what I was I was able to sneak in fighter fest into my busy ass schedule. And I had some you see I didn't know.
00:07:04
Speaker
how difficult or how easy this show was gonna be to watch. I knew that Bleacher Report Live was hosting it. I didn't know that there wouldn't be anybody streaming it on YouTube. And I had access to a computer, so this wasn't a big deal. But I kinda wanted to watch it on my TV and my living room.
00:07:20
Speaker
And so I tried to find a YouTube stream other than the pre-show. That wasn't happening. It was just stupid people sitting in their living rooms with the camera facing them watching the show. So I abandoned that. And then I thought, I'll be cool. And I'll open my PS4 browser and I'll see if I can load it up on there. That didn't work. Is there not a Bleacher Report app on PlayStation?
00:07:44
Speaker
I tried looking for one, maybe there is, but I couldn't find it. I didn't know. I used my computer, I plugged an HDMI cable into it and plugged it straight into my TV. You've got a nice little setup there. You've explained to me that you primarily use your computer as a pro wrestling station. Oh yeah. That's the secondary purpose of your computer. No primary, I've never used it for pornography.
00:08:12
Speaker
You know what the sad thing is? The sincerity in your voice. I believe you 100%.
00:08:20
Speaker
You were so proud. You were so proud. You were like a kid who walked up to their parent and was like, I cleaned my room. Come check it out. Like I want to compliment for not looking at pornography. Like, yeah. Well, it's true. It stands on this keyboard. I really appreciate that you didn't believe that and you have known me long enough to know when I'm being serious. There was so much sincerity in your voice.
AEW Fighter Fest: Key Matches and Reviews
00:08:44
Speaker
You're not a guy who would be ashamed to say, yeah, I whack off here.
00:08:48
Speaker
but alas, I use my phone for that. You use it, yeah, well it is 2019, and you can whack it on the go. Now, you use your computer for something way better. You use it to watch big, muscly, sweaty men hug each other and chuck each other around for entertainment. Primarily, yeah. Yeah. And record the show that's all this computer's used for. Well, it's almost the same thing. Pretty much.
00:09:18
Speaker
Okay, but you get the show on. I actually have watched this show probably two and a half times now. I have watched it one and a half. And I've watched a couple of the matches three times. I enjoyed the shit out of this show. I enjoyed it.
00:09:37
Speaker
to separate how I feel from how you feel. I was definitely pleased. I think we should save our overall feelings and the detailed response we have to the show for the end. But...
00:09:54
Speaker
I don't know what like did I guess you're so used to watching stuff on your computer I guess which I guess I get probably a lot of our listeners do that I don't I'm so used to the network or watching things on TV Did you have any problems with the stream not one it streamed fine the entire time did you have issues um No, not really. I mean I had issues like I
00:10:19
Speaker
I felt like occasionally my screensaver would try to start. And I had to go and shut that down permanently. And when it did, it would like completely shut off the feed for a minute. No, I mean, I think it ran mostly smooth. But I guarantee you, you were fucking marking out with the fact that your boy Chuck Taylor and Trent Beretta kicked off the pre-show. And they get an opportunity at a first round buy in the tag tournament.
00:10:48
Speaker
Absolutely. And this was a fucking banger of a match, man. This tag match? See, this is one I just rewatched for the first time, actually, right a little bit ago before we started recording. People started coming over to watch the show around this time. So we were kind of talking and I was catching spots, but it didn't get my full attention. And from everything I was reading online, I needed to go back, give it my full attention, and it was 100% worth that.
00:11:15
Speaker
Absolutely. Private party fucking won me over hard. Yeah. I also think that. I don't know between Taylor and Beretta, like it's is it still weird for you to see them getting like a national spotlight? I love it. I love it so much. I like you've got so many old like PWG memories. Like Chuck Taylor was one of the guys I talked to pretty much every show.
00:11:44
Speaker
I just enjoyed him so much. He's been one of my favorites since I got into indie wrestling and seeing him just get that huge pop for just hugging his best friend. That's what me and you were shooting for, buddy. That's the bar. Yes. No, we are the bar. Were you surprised to see that they were the team that went over in this match?
00:12:10
Speaker
No, I think that they've been featured in pretty funny ways on BTE and, you know, like, what was it a few months ago where they came out and said, no, we're not doing the we're not being in the pre-show for Double or Nothing. And then they got a main event spot or not main event, but main card spot. Main card. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really cool seeing them. But it does have me kind of wondering with they have a lot of comedy wrestlers right now or not. Yeah.
00:12:36
Speaker
How are they going to fare? Are they going to be the lower card? What are they to AEW? I asked you this question before AEW really got started. I said how are all these comedy acts going to be able to mesh with people?
00:12:51
Speaker
who are a more serious style of wrestling. It's hard to put into words, but you know the general question here, which is, will it work? And I guess, I mean, it's not any different than what WWE does, right? They have a lot of comedy, silly acts on the lower part of the card. And nobody thinks about that when it comes time for Rollins versus Styles for a title.
00:13:18
Speaker
I guess I just want to know, am I going to be seeing Chuck Taylor fight in Kenny Omega? Or am I mostly going to be watching Chuck Taylor fight fucking Orange Cassidy or something? You know what I mean? Primarily, you'll probably be seeing that. Or will I be seeing, like, you know, TV singles matches where Chuck's getting squashed by Pentagon Jr. or something crazy?
00:13:41
Speaker
I don't know, we'll see. Either way, good match. Yeah, good match, a lot of good high spots. I don't know, it's probably in my top four matches of the night. And that's really good considering the final four matches of this show. Absolutely, yeah. And honestly, the next one, the next two were really the only low spots in the show for me.
00:14:08
Speaker
You didn't like Ali Impact vs. Lava Bates or Michael Nakazawa vs. Alex Jubelli. Ali and Lava Bates' match wasn't necessarily a bad wrestling match, but the librarian stuff just is not over and just didn't work. We were sitting here watching it all talking to each other about how it wasn't working and when I just rewatched it today by myself,
00:14:32
Speaker
There was a complete silence when the reveal of Peter Avalon was in that tent. No one gave a shit. No one cared. And occasionally BTE has a bit that just doesn't work. And they admit that. I don't know how long this one will last. Not a great one for me. Yeah. What did you think of Michael Nakazawa versus Alex Jubaley?
00:14:56
Speaker
See, this is what I came in on. I came in towards the end of the pre-show, and I got to see most of this match. And the finish was just, it felt very much like, let's get the fuck out of here, finish. Like, they had backed themselves into a corner in the match, and it was just like, we gotta get out of here. Can you believe that was nine and a half minutes?
00:15:19
Speaker
Yes, I can too. And they it was one of those things that while we were watching it, I was like, the crowd is a lot of video game fans. We are not that this match is not for us, but there are people in that building that this means something to. So I get it. And it's not on the main show. He helped put the thing on what it is, what it is. Right. I did like hearing commentary make fun of him a lot, though.
00:15:46
Speaker
So I obviously I watched this on YouTube and this is the part of the show I was telling you I was on my ps4 in my living room watching this and then I thought you know what this is being streamed surely I'll be able to find you know the actual fighter fest somewhere on here nope so I had to frantically
00:16:07
Speaker
boot up my laptop, get that going, and I switched over. I will say, I got duped because I tried the PS4's browser, like I said, and there was a countdown going on, and I texted you, because you wouldn't fucking give me an answer. I don't know what you were doing over there, getting all hot and bothered for the main show. But I thought that the countdown on my PS4 browser was like, yeah, the show's starting in three minutes. No.
00:16:36
Speaker
I hadn't signed up for my Bleacher Report account yet, and it was giving you a five minute preview.
00:16:42
Speaker
and the counter was going down on a black screen and I thought, okay, so when this counter's over, the show's gonna start. No, the counter was going down for a video that I was not seeing of a preview, so then I had to log in using my Google account to get into the Bleacher Report live, whatever, and I got booted up and I started and I came in halfway into SEMA versus Christopher Daniels. Which- I promise you, you had more trouble watching this than any one of our listeners.
00:17:13
Speaker
Well, it wasn't that I had trouble, it was just I came in. What time did the show start? 7.30? Yeah. I think I walked in the door at like 7.20. That's fine. I'm just saying.
00:17:32
Speaker
You do you, man. I'm just saying. All I did was get on there. So, oh, I have to create an account, hit Facebook, sign up and sign me up immediately. I was in. Done. Well, they made it. I mean, I'm not saying it was hard. I'm just saying I wasn't prepared to do things. I just thought that I would just be able to click a thing and be ready to go. And it was actually like two extra steps that were not difficult. Either way. You nitpicking bastard. I wasn't wowed by SEMA versus Christopher Daniels. I thought it was OK.
00:18:02
Speaker
I thought it was fine. It was fine. Honestly, to me, that's that is the predetermined equivalent of I'm not going to say anything nice, but I'm also not going to rip it to shreds. I have nothing bad to say about it, but it also didn't wow me. I like both of those guys. Great. Anything memorable about it?
00:18:24
Speaker
Yeah. No. There you go. There you go. Was the crowd wasn't super into it either, right? I don't think so. Let me which is weird because you usually want your opening match to be kind of a get the crowd going hot, whatever. Which Chuck Taylor did. Yeah, there was no top in that performance. My question is I meant to ask you this during the we were talking about the tag match. Is SCU not as over as they used to be?
00:18:54
Speaker
They haven't done anything in a while. I kind of started thinking about that when Chuck Taylor and Trent won, kind of thinking, what's next for SCU? And I think I can care about SCU again very easily. I think they just need a real storyline for me to get back in. But they're not as hot as they were like a year ago. And I mean, well, even on BTE, until this last episode, they hadn't even been back together to be doing bits. They'd been kind of separated, traveling, doing different shows. So, yeah.
00:19:25
Speaker
Do people, I'm asking hypothetically, and you're speaking for all the people I'm asking for, so that's interesting. Do people still give a shit about Christopher Daniels wrestling singles matches? I think so. I think I care more than I used to. Like he hasn't stopped being somebody I want to check out. I think there's other matches I'm more interested in seeing, but. Well, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, and I know that's how it's coming across.
00:19:54
Speaker
I just ever since his match with, um, why am I blanking? Amel at all? Yeah. And how clunky it was. It wasn't like, to me, like I, I looked at him as less performer, but I became very aware of like, Oh, he's at that stage of his career where he's basically done. Well, we thought he was done two years ago or a year ago or whatever. Yeah.
00:20:19
Speaker
Yeah, but now, I mean, it really feels like the SCU act is over, maybe not as over as it was a month ago. But I feel like Christopher Daniels is getting like a career resurgence just on the act alone. And it really doesn't have anything to do with him being as spectacular as he used to be in the ring, which is a given. But it was a weird match to open the main show with, I thought. That's my thought.
00:20:44
Speaker
I'm trying to think what else I would have done to open it, though, out of the ones we saw, unless... But at that point, you'd have to bump... I have an answer for you. Would it have been to bump Best Friend? Open with the four-way? Yes. I don't know. I guess as far as the main show goes, it felt like it had that New Japan booking of importance level building as the show went on. I guess.
00:21:11
Speaker
And also the quality of the storytelling and wrestling. I don't know, it went up like a set of stairs for me.
00:21:18
Speaker
I guess my one issue with the New Japan style booking with AEW is that I wouldn't try to emulate that if your goal is to get people to stick around to watch this brand new product. Do you dig what I'm saying here? No, I get what you're saying, but I also do think this was free. This was a lot of people's first experience watching an AEW show. I guess, yeah, I see what you mean. I can't. I don't even think I can put your best foot forward.
00:21:47
Speaker
That fatal four-way would have been a really hot opener for this. You're right. Absolutely. That was one of my favorite matches of the night. Absolutely. But let's go back. Ryu versus Yuka Sakazaki, right? Yeah. And Nyla Rose, triple threat. What did you think of this one?
00:22:09
Speaker
I thought this one was fun as hell. I like that they're showing that size isn't really a thing here. We're going to see all these people interact with each other. It was a better version of Lucha House Party versus Lars Sullivan.
00:22:24
Speaker
You have two smaller wrestlers getting beaten up by a bigger wrestler, and this was good though. I enjoyed watching it. I liked the finish. I thought I wasn't nuts about this at the beginning. It started off, I was like, eh, I'm not really into this. About halfway into it, some of the spots they did drew me in, and by the end of it, they had me. I was hooked.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, honestly, the SEMA Daniels match brought me down a little bit, especially since it didn't follow. OK, here we go. If you want to hear serious. Yeah, after basically Leva Bates up until this match, I was just like, oh, man, this isn't the best. Like it's not terrible, but it's not the best. This match partway through started winning me back over where I was like, all right, here we go. This is this is the show I want.
00:23:13
Speaker
No, this match about halfway through is what turned the corner for the rest of the show. And I will stand by that statement. I was actually expecting Nyla Rose to win this match. Oh, I was too. So I was really surprised to see that Riho got the victory. And that is Kenny Omega's favorite intergender tag team partner. They made a point of saying that on the broadcast. Yeah. That's like an unofficial, official endorsement. Kenny's not out here saying that, but when the broadcasters are telling you.
00:23:44
Speaker
How do you feel? How do you feel about the commentary?
Cody Rhodes vs. Darby Allin and Spears' Chair Shot
00:23:51
Speaker
My favorite portion of any of the commentary was during The Six Man. Just listening to Excalibur hit the name of every single move so fast while JR sat in silence. Excalibur knows the name of every single move. There were things I had never heard before that he was just shouting out like it was just common knowledge.
00:24:14
Speaker
What's fucking nuts is that back in peak pro wrestling video game, Derek Daze, like that time in my life when you would go customize your creator wrestler on WWE games, I used to know the name of every fucking move. Like it never, it was never a practical skill.
00:24:36
Speaker
It wasn't, it was never something that, you know, would come, like in fact, most of the moves that you would see in that, like you would never hear the commentators even call it that, but they had them in the game and then occasionally it would come up and you'd be like, oh yes, I remember.
00:24:51
Speaker
I remember the electric chair drop. You never fucking hear about it. My, uh, my dumb skill is I can remember where I saw any movie. Like I can tell you what movie theater and what city in the, in the country that I saw a movie at. That doesn't matter. But I remember that pre-determined to pro wrestling hangout where we tell you about our dumb skills.
00:25:13
Speaker
He knows what an electric chair drop is. I know which theater in Jacksonville, Illinois we saw Catwoman at. I do too. Never forget it. So let's get on to the upward swing part of the show here.
00:25:28
Speaker
Fatal 4-way between Adam Page, Jimmy Havoc, Jungle Boy, and MJF. Oh my god, MJF's promo before the match was awesome. And there was a point, I felt, there were a few times in this that I was like, why are you doing this to these people? Where a joke would be made and then they would cut to a very unfortunate person in the crowd who got to be the face of the punchline of a joke.
00:25:53
Speaker
And I'll tell you though, a couple times they nailed the right person for the joke, but I felt bad. Like that's not fair. Don't do that to that man. Like when he made the joke about, uh, I used to play video games, but then I lost my virginity and it just cut to a very sad man on the ground. He did. I made a point that guy's really upset. Somebody's really hurt.
00:26:19
Speaker
This was a fun fucking match. I mean, here's the other thing. A match like this, considering where the direction they're headed is, you know, at all out, you kind of know Paige is going over in this match, but it doesn't really fucking matter, right? Because you're really just kind of showcasing the middle part of your roster.
00:26:41
Speaker
Exactly. And I think they did a great job with it. And I don't think Jimmy Havoc looked any worse for taking the pin because it was MJF ducking a clothesline and Jimmy Havoc taking a pin or a clothesline he didn't see coming. So, you know, he I didn't think anybody looked bad in this. I thought everybody walked away looking great. Do you feel even more confident now, the more and more you see MJF that he's going to be a superstar?
00:27:07
Speaker
Yes, yes, it's, I don't know if I've ever seen anyone that I, when I saw them the first time, I thought, holy shit, this is that guy. And I mean, you can go back and listen to the first time we saw that guy and we spent so long raving about him. And to see how far he's come since, and really it's been like a year and a half since we saw him in February of 2018 to now.
00:27:36
Speaker
Damn, yeah, he was fighting Ace Romero and I don't remember. I think DJZ. And Paco, maybe? Yes, that sounds right. That's impressive. That's another stupid skull we have. Honestly, though, other than Jimmy Havoc, this is a group of four guys that, you know, have just had this huge rise very recently. Yeah, like Havoc at this point is very well established.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah, and I also think that... Do you think that the name Jungle Boy is gonna stick?
00:28:18
Speaker
And it's a weird question to ask, I know, but like, do you think that people, like, I don't know. I think there's certain things that we're going to really get to see how they transition from how it works on the indie scene to how it works in like a mainstream wrestling promotion. And this was one that I thought about when it was, when it was, I don't know, what, when they were walking out, I was like, oh, jungle boy. Is he going to stick with that name? Like if he has a successful career, is that going to be his name the whole way through or?
00:28:44
Speaker
I like his thing right now. I could see this being a gimmick that could easily not work somewhere, but considering some of the other people they have on the roster and the style he wrestles, I think he's gonna be fine. Well, the name stick, I don't know, but the gimmick is working right now. People seem to enjoy Luchasaurus. I like their BTE thing where Luchasaurus just got his doctorate.
00:29:12
Speaker
So obviously we said Paige wins the match which makes sense He's going on to face Jericho for the AEW Championship at all out. His finisher scares me Yeah, I'm always worried up Yeah, I'm gonna bring that up later. Okay, so actually I'm gonna bring it up At the end of the next match we're gonna talk about actually the next match I think was my favorite match of the night
00:29:37
Speaker
You did have a pretty strong response to this one. This was Cody with Brandy Rhodes at ringside versus Darby Allen. And this, we haven't brought this up. The matches had a time limit.
00:29:50
Speaker
A lot of people are not used to that. It's a new thing we're going to have to get used to again. And I love it. Because you can either have a time limit or you can just have two out of three falls matches for the rest of the fucking WWE run. Sorry, continue time limit. Well, it's important to bring that up because it factors into the finish of this match. Cody made Darby Allen look awesome.
00:30:17
Speaker
And this was a match where for a long time Cody was punishing Darby Allen and when he started to make his comeback it really made him shine. And I thought him bringing the body bag to the ring was pretty fucking rad. Darby Allen really throws caution to the wind a lot. He's a guy like Takahashi that has no regard for his body.
00:30:44
Speaker
I mean, do you remember that spot in it when Cody threw him at the ring post, but he like, missed the ring post and slid sideways and just went flying out to the floor? Yeah.
00:30:54
Speaker
To me, this was gonna be one of the most interesting matchups just because of Darby Allen style. And I mean, the last time I saw him was fighting, fuck, what, Nick Gage in a no-ring death match? And yeah, he's fucking awesome. And I'm really excited for him to get some TV time, but God, yeah, I was not expecting to get the finish we got to this where he walked out looking so strong.
00:31:23
Speaker
Cody tried his best and hit him with the crossroads at the end of the match. But by the time he made the cover, time ran out and the match ended up ending in a draw due to the time limit. And I would say he took the worst bump of the night.
00:31:43
Speaker
or visually the most disturbing bump of the night. Darby Allen? Oh, fuck yeah. In the body bag? No, no, no, not in the body bag. When he did the trust fall off the top rope. And he landed spine first on the apron?
00:31:59
Speaker
Oh yeah. Jesus. That thud was pretty, was pretty hard. Like I've seen him do that trust fall alive and it scares the shit out of me. But when you're just diving back first into the apron, knowing that that's what's going to happen, I don't know how you mentally prepare for that other than just be a crazy person. Yeah. Um. So I guess.
00:32:24
Speaker
I mean, I guess what they created with this match was the idea that Cody was probably going to win, but he wasn't able to put Darby Allen away in time. So Darby looked strong because he was able to hang with Cody and Cody doesn't suffer a loss or get a victory out of it. So they kind of made a star like without needing to get a pinfall or a submission. Were you afraid that Darby Allen was going to take some crazy move inside of the bag? I was worried that that wasn't going to work.
00:32:53
Speaker
I was like, how does this work? How is this even visually satisfying? If you can't see like you get what he's doing because you know what Cody's finisher is but it just I don't know see it was interesting I think putting a guy in a body bag and we all thought he was getting ready to take a German suplex in a body bag Yeah, which I think would have been visually pleasing. I think that would have been better than the crossroads. I
00:33:18
Speaker
Visually anyway, but then this match took a bit of everyone's talking about let's talk about the thing everyone's talking about after the match
00:33:29
Speaker
Garrett, you know what, I'm just gonna fuck with you. Ty Dillinger showed up. Sean Spears, Derek. If you're gonna show Jon Moxley the same respect. That's exactly what I was fucking alluding to. Yes, Sean Spears shows up at the chair and something we haven't seen in a long time on mainstream wrestling television, Sean Spears cracks Cody over the fucking head with his folding chair
00:33:56
Speaker
and Cody sits up and he's got a gash on the back of his head, he's bleeding. And there appears to be a flap of skin. This was not planned. I mean the chair shot and everything was, what they're saying is that the chair was gimmicked. It was meant to take the blow. What happened though was the back, or I guess the top part of the chair,
00:34:23
Speaker
when the chair dented in and caught Cody on the back of the head. This to me was like a JFK assassination moment because I was texting back and forth with you. I was like, he got hit from the front. How is he bleeding out of the back of the head? And they would do like replays on it. And it took two or three replays before I was like, oh, I see what happened. Like to me, it was like, this is a really fucked up blade job, Cody. If you've got a flap of skin hanging off, you went a little too deep.
00:34:52
Speaker
I thought he just hit him so hard that his brains blew out. And this is why we don't do chair shots. I thought the thing that was cool about I thought everyone coming out rushing to Cody's aid, including MJF, we're in the nightmare family coat and everything. And this was odd.
00:35:14
Speaker
Mainly because Cody, here's, I'm not saying you have to have typical babyface heel dynamics, but during the match with Darby Allen, Cody was definitely kind of the heel. And yet Sean Spears is coming out committing the, the heinous attack. And there's legitimate, legitimate concern over Cody's welfare.
00:35:39
Speaker
Were they even brought up like CTE scans and stuff like that? Yeah. There were a lot of moments on this show where I couldn't tell if they were trying to do like the fire festival thing and stuff was fucking up because there were a lot of missed lighting cues and then this happened and then it just hung with the announcers for so long and it felt like they were killing time and didn't know what to do.
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think they're still getting they're still getting their feet under them as far as how to do these broadcasts will take some time before they get like a I don't know, solid rhythm to it. I will say there were a lot of things like it's just the product is already pretty edgy like them even bringing up about like like Darby Allen's father and everything.
00:36:27
Speaker
like the car crash and everything? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it's an uncle or somebody, yeah. Yeah, whatever, whatever, fuck. I feel like now I didn't pay attention. I mean, I did, but now I don't remember the details. That was pretty edgy, like for a wrestling promotion or a wrestling storyline to include that information. I thought the body bag was edgy. I thought, obviously,
00:36:53
Speaker
Talk about the chair shot to the head because it was the hot topic. What did you like? A lot of people cringe. A lot of people didn't like it. I mean, even after all the death match shit we've seen, chair shots still bother me so much more.
00:37:08
Speaker
do you just feel way more protective of the human brain now than you used to yeah and i mean having you know like ben wah and like so many other wrestlers die young deaths i enjoy these guys and i enjoy what they're doing that's like even with deathmatch stuff there's safer ways to do it than taking a chair shot i know they said that the chair was gimmicked and i think lance storm said there's a way to pull pins out so that that part
00:37:34
Speaker
gives back quicker so you're not taking the full blow, but it still is just very, very cringy.
00:37:52
Speaker
I think if it hadn't gone so poorly, it wouldn't be talked about as much. But since it immediately went poorly, this was… it kind of seemed like almost the entire internet agreed this was too much.
The Elite vs. Lucha Brothers and Moxley-Janela Deathmatch
00:38:07
Speaker
And that it shouldn't happen. And that was so interesting because I saw that and then I also saw people like the backlash was why are people freaking out over chair shots to the head but these same fans lose their fucking mind every time they see a Canadian destroyer.
00:38:25
Speaker
Like, why... I mean, even if he had put a hand up... What'd you say? I said, even if he had put a hand up, I probably could have gotten behind it a little more. But, you know... He just took it? He just fucking took every bit of it, and then when the camera moves down and you hear Excalibur go like, oh no, because there is clearly a pool of blood starting to form.
00:38:47
Speaker
Yeah, it was. I don't know. I don't I don't like seeing that. I don't want anyone to get real life hurt. I mean, regardless of what happened to the Moxley match, there's fun violence and there's scary violence. See, I want to I do want to talk about that a little bit because that that's going to be an important discussion to have on this episode. Yeah, you see, my initial reaction to it before I saw the gash on the back of the head was that's kind of awesome.
00:39:15
Speaker
because it's been, see, here's my one issue when it comes to suspension of disbelief when it comes to pro wrestling. When they grab an object as a weapon, a foreign object,
00:39:30
Speaker
It's always weirded me out when they got rid of chair shots to the head and all that stuff. I'm like, why do they have no problem with the illusion? It's hard to make sense of why I'm watching two guys who have no problem punching each other in the fucking face or doing a brain buster, dropping somebody on their head, and then all of a sudden they get a weapon in their hands and they're like, bend over so I can hit you across the back.
00:39:57
Speaker
And here's this is not me playing dumb. I get why they don't do it. I just think that because at least you and I grew up in an era where chair shots to the head happened all the fucking time. It's hard to unsee what I have seen. So to see a chair shot to the head for the first time in a long time on like a mainstream wrestling program, I kind of popped for it.
00:40:24
Speaker
And I was like, oh, that makes sense. That's what you do when you have a weapon and somebody you're pissed at is standing in front of you. You don't fucking take the edge of it and jam it into their gut. You fucking smash them in the face. So as long as they're not wrapping the back of the chair around the guy's head, if they can gimmick it so that it's not hurting them, I'm all for it. So do you think this is headed towards Sean Spears versus Cody at all out?
00:40:54
Speaker
That would seem to be the end game here. Once he wraps up doing the tag match with his brother against the Bucks at Fight for the Fallen, I mean, he's got an open card, right? Yeah, does that get you excited? Is that a matchup that a guy coming straight out of WWE fighting the guy who succeeded leaving WWE?
00:41:14
Speaker
Think it's funny cuz I think five years ago if I'd said we're gonna or what four or five years ago if I'd said we're gonna get Ty Dellinger versus Cody Rhodes Mmm, people doing whatever have fun with that match on Smackdown Like but That we miss most of from a commercial break. Yeah
00:41:33
Speaker
I mean, I'm excited for it because of all the things I just said. I think they've started it in a good place. I think this is one of the situations where the blood and the accident, as long as Cody's fine, you work with him.
00:41:51
Speaker
Make it part of the story. The more gruesome it was, fucking run with it. So I'm excited to see where this goes. I'm really digging at this point. You know, this card was a good example of there being something for everybody.
00:42:05
Speaker
Absolutely, which I think is like we talked about it before. I think that's what AEW is going to have to offer, right? Yeah. And I mean, I know they said there's not going to be hardcore matches on TV, but this was the type of wrestling show I want. I got a lot of the fast paced stuff. I got the good story out of Cody. I got, you know, then this fucking main event or the non sanctioned match.
00:42:28
Speaker
Well, first of all, let's talk about the next match here because this was my favorite match of the entire night. I fucking loved this one too. This one as far as just had the go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say just as far as the type of wrestling I enjoy watching live. That's what I want to go see.
00:42:48
Speaker
That's what you like a lot of. Yeah, you like spots. I want high spots. And this type of six man match is a good reminder that it doesn't have to be a filler match. When you have six high flyers in the same match, it's really just a chance to have let everybody get their shit in and just make a really exciting fireworks show. It's just you coming every 20 seconds from a new move.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yeah, maybe it's a bad thing that we don't walk away remembering everything that happened, but while you're in it, it's so goddamn exciting. I think we talked about this before. It's like you said, fireworks. It's like that flurry at the end of a fireworks show where they just shoot off fucking everything and it's rapid fire and it's crazy.
00:43:34
Speaker
Yeah, this is my favorite match of the night. I wouldn't even know where to begin. I just know that seeing the elite come out as street fighter characters. And once again, I don't know, man, like it would.
00:43:50
Speaker
There's like a really weird chemistry between the Lucha Brothers and the Elite. And I guess I'll throw Laredo Kid in there because he was in the match, but like they alluded at the end of this to Kenny and Pentagon having another match. And I would totally be up for that. Oh, when they went face to face in the ring and it kind of seemed like they were going to set up for a longer story of Kenny and Pentagon, I could absolutely be into that.
00:44:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think they know that there's something there. But to me, this match, there was just, like you said, I don't know if this is necessarily my favorite style horizon, but just this spot on the card, this was a lot of fun. I could watch this every night.
00:44:35
Speaker
I basically saw the same match a couple years ago, but instead of Laredo Kid, it was Flamida. And it was at Bola two years ago. And I mean, yeah, it's the same thing. You know, they just have such good chemistry with those guys. And it seems like you can throw in another luchador with the luchabros and just fucking nail it.
00:44:55
Speaker
And it works. Yeah. So yeah, that's just I don't there's somebody that you can put on a card those two teams fight in and you should want to go out to see that. I mean, they fought a million times at this point, but they're every time you see it, it still feels special. Let's talk about the main event of the show.
00:45:16
Speaker
I do want to say 99% of the build up to this I was fucking amazed by. I loved how they announced that it was unsanctioned. I love that the whole, when we dim the lights, the show is over. When the lights come back up, there is one more match, but it's not by us.
00:45:37
Speaker
I thought everything about it was brilliant and I was excited about it. And I think the one thing, this is why I said 99%, the one thing I will say, I saw BlueMeany tweet out, everything was executed perfectly. The one thing I would have done differently is I would have had the referee not have an AEW referee shirt.
00:45:57
Speaker
Okay. Just to like, I mean, cause it's weird to go to that much effort to put on the show of this is not by us. And then like, I don't know. It's unsanctioned matches have always been weird to me because everyone's kind of in on the fact of, oh, that's ridiculous. Like it's happening and you're letting it happen. What do you think though, about, um, them coming out with entrance music? I agree. I mean, I think that's weird too.
00:46:24
Speaker
but I think at this point you can't have Jon Moxley come out to nothing. The crowd's just too excited for him at this point. I get it, but I guess this is to me the, what would you call it? The conundrum of doing an unsanctioned match is telling people we're not endorsing this, but here's their entrance music and the lights, and here's a referee, and we're keeping the show running. It's like I get what they're going for,
00:46:54
Speaker
It's just a weird suspension of disbelief thing. Do you think that this show is false advertisement as to what AEW is going to be since Tony, Tony Khan specified, you know, there's not going to be hardcore wrestling. You're not going to hear the profanity. You're not going to see the middle fingers. Like it isn't going to be this, but there is a place for all of that on pay-per-view. Oh, that's a good question.
00:47:22
Speaker
Because obviously the wrestling is going to be the same. No, it's not. If it's not going to be like it was on this show. See. But I'm saying I don't think if you marked out for something on this show that they're not going to be able to do on Wednesday Night Dynamite. Like you're you're still operating in a sandbox. There are rules here.
00:47:49
Speaker
I'm not trying to be a fucking IWC nerd here. I know you didn't like me saying it last week, but I'm going to say it again. Like you can't tell me this is a new different product than WWE. It's edgy. We're going to do things differently and then say, well, actually here's a list of things we definitely can't do except for this one show. Check this one show out. It's free. And then people respond positively to a thing, multiple things on the show that you're then going to take back and people don't get it anymore.
00:48:20
Speaker
It's weird. Well, but he wasn't saying, you know, like it makes sense that you can't have that deathmatch on TNT. No, I get what I mean. I think I think it's still going to be, you know, an edgier show. Like you said, even just with Darby Allen's presence and telling a story, that's an edgier story than we're used to recently. Sure. I don't know. I I could see it both ways, though. That's why I was just curious what your thoughts were on it.
00:48:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think my problem with it is if he's going to straight up say we're not going to do like a deathmatch on television, I don't think you do a deathmatch on television every week. I don't think you even necessarily do one every year, but you got to explore the option of if you want to, if you're trying to bring in new viewers and we're just using the deathmatch thing as an example.
00:49:12
Speaker
you need to show them why your product is different. And I think that is an element of the Indies that not a lot of people have been able to see or attend or really basically since ECW went out, it's kind of been non-existent on television.
00:49:30
Speaker
I think you at least give one of those away on TV between two guys that you want to elevate. Like we're talking a really, this is a really weird time to be talking about what they should be doing on Wednesday night dynamite like a year from now. Um, I think it's a little bit false advertising and I also think it's a little bit not that big of a deal.
00:49:50
Speaker
I don't ultimately think it's going to hold them back drastically enough for us to be dwelling on it, but it's a good question, Garrett. Well, after the show, I watched the half hour press conference Tony Khan did. And the whole time he was talking, I was pretty into what he was saying. I was like, this guy just seems like a fucking wrestling nerd like us and gets it.
00:50:13
Speaker
But then 28 minutes in, he was asked a question that he gave a hard no to that was the first time throughout that interview that I disagreed on something. And it was the question of something we've debated on this show a lot, right? He was asked, is there going to be intergender wrestling? And he said, absolutely not. So that kind of crushes my Candice LeRae theory.
00:50:36
Speaker
Yeah. He said he's Jericho in you. I don't know. He said that the only thing he there were two things he didn't enjoy. Actually, he could be Jericho in me because of the two things he said he didn't enjoy at fucking all in. He said the two things he didn't like was watching Jordan Grace get punched. And he said he didn't like the Dick Druids.
00:51:00
Speaker
But he said that mostly he's like, don't get me wrong, I love the Dick Druids. But he said we're trying to build Hangman Page up as this, you know, this new guy. And I don't think we can't we can't reference that. He's like, I don't think him getting carried out by Dick Druids after that good of a match was something I would have done.
00:51:19
Speaker
yeah but who knows maybe the two things he singled out he is working me is Jericho in me so that he's throwing me off of the scent Jericho is the ultimate if you ask him a question something that you feel like you know the answer is yes to Jericho look at you and say no and act like you're a fucking idiot for asking and maybe he taught that to Tony
00:51:39
Speaker
I don't know. Does it matter to you? Like you said that you was the first thing he said that you disagreed with in the press conference about there being no intergender wrestling. Does that is that really a blow for you? It's not a deal breaker or anything. It's something that I do enjoy watching when it's done well. And I would have liked it to have been showcased. I think there's once again, like a deathmatch, there's ways to do it that it isn't offensive.
00:52:07
Speaker
He said that didn't he say something about with he has issues with domestic violence and that's the primary reason for not doing it. Oh, 100% and I totally totally get that. And there are definitely intergender matches that are super cringy for me. I there's also ones that are some of the best I've seen, you know, I I'm a fan. I like watching ladies kick dudes asses. But are you a fan of dudes kicking ladies asses? No.
00:52:38
Speaker
So I guess there's but I have there's no dynamic you you like one half of the dynamic
00:52:44
Speaker
But like when you watch Sammy Callahan in an intergender match and he's beating the shit out of a lady, that's super heat. Is it the wrong heat? I don't know, maybe. But like I said, I can enjoy those matches and I don't have a problem with it. This debate will rage on on this podcast is what you're saying. Yeah, it's gonna continue. It looks like right now Impact is the only one like, hey, we're doing it over here, Tessa versus Sammy. And I'm like, yeah, that does sound good. Where can I watch it? You have to pay for a pay-per-view. I can wait.
00:53:14
Speaker
It apparently is not enough for you to pull out your wallet. Tomorrow or today, because it's fucking 4th of July while you're there. Happy 4th of July, everybody. We could have done an entire- Yeah, it's at the top of the show. We could have done an entire episode just about wrestling, Pyro. We could have done a show about the many great American bash pay-per-views that WCW used to put on celebrating America. We didn't do that. We're here talking about more important things.
00:53:45
Speaker
Yes. Speaking of more. We haven't even talked about the fucking match, Garrett. Well, I was ready to move on. We've seriously given this pay-per-view an hour. And did you even remember that Ring of Honor had a pay-per-view this weekend? I don't because I didn't watch it. I just kind of went on living my life. It was me and the 12 people in that room watching the pay-per-view. Good for you guys. Well, yeah, I made a joke, Derek. I made a joke about how no one watches it anymore. They're coming to town and I don't even have tickets yet.
00:54:15
Speaker
You say yet again. Like, it's gonna happen, but... But there's a difference between when they were coming to town before, I had to be online that exact second to get front row, and this time it's one where I'm like, I'm cool with general admission. Well, it'll be fine. Moxley and Janela. What did you think? I thought we got to watch Jon Moxley have the most fun he's had in a ring in a long time.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yep, that was my big takeaway from this. Other than Janela...
00:54:51
Speaker
I did want to point out the guy has done enough deathmatch wrestling. You would think by now his character would be like almost at the Mick Foley mankind stage where it wouldn't be as traumatizing to him. But it's funny because he looked so scared when Moxley was taking off his shoes. And in my mind, I'm like, dude, I watched this happen to you at the back of a Foreman Mills.
00:55:20
Speaker
you know you're gonna be fine. Yeah but we shortly after that death match we went to I saw an interview with him where like he says people think I'm a death match wrestler but I've really only had like three. The one we saw was only his third death match and he likes regular wrestling and he is a good wrestler and he said you know I don't want to get pigeonholed into death matches. But yeah I don't want him to do that either.
00:55:46
Speaker
But it does seem like that could be his... I mean, the only two spots we've seen him take so far is getting a cigarette stapled to his forehead. We've seen him get thrown off that stage by Hangman Page. Didn't want all that to rhyme. Did. And we saw him take fucking thumb tacks on the feet. Like, it seems like he's gonna be AEW's guy to just... him and Darby Allen are gonna get tossed around real good over there.
00:56:14
Speaker
I wanted to bring this up because when we were talking about the Cody Rhodes chair shot spot, I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong. I just want to get your take on it. And when I maybe hear from our listeners on this, can somebody explain to me why it's okay?
00:56:32
Speaker
to cringe and be against a chair shot to the head, but then see a man picked up and thrown into a tangle of barbed wire and ripped to shreds and cheer and be okay with that. He's got some scratches there, that's not gonna give him a concussion. But isn't the whole idea that we like wrestling because of the illusion of them inflicting damage on each other but not actually doing it?
00:57:01
Speaker
I think it is, but I think there's another group of guys who are like, oh, we're going to make this shit look really, really real. And because it is real because it is. And we like the way this feels a little bit. It makes my pee pee tingle. I think that's why they do it. Are you into it?
00:57:18
Speaker
I'm into it more than I used to be. Since we saw that one show, since doing this show, we've been exposed to so much deathmatch wrestling and I feel like I've maybe gone out of my way a little more to continue following it since. But I don't know, like the last two nights I fell asleep with my laptop on my stomach watching Jon Moxley deathmatches.
00:57:42
Speaker
And after the one I watched last night, I've actually had nightmares two nights in a row from this shit. And the one I watched last night was absolutely too much. It was the one where you actually see him take that little saw to the head, the electric saw. Fuck that, man. Fuck that. There's at one point they've got like a circular saw blade on like a pole and he's just getting it run across his forehead.
00:58:09
Speaker
There could be a point when it's too much, but I mean it was at CZW's Tournament of Death, so what am I gonna tell him, don't do that? Well, but what do you say right before you go out, like when you're talking about what you're gonna do out there, you'd be like, eh, just run the saw across my forehead, it'll work out. Run it over there a couple times, I'm gonna whack you with the toaster. You do that.
00:58:29
Speaker
But as a serious answer, are you just saying that you can't quite put your finger on why we're okay with one but not okay with the other? I think that there can be storytelling in deathmatch wrestling. And I think since we've been watching FMW, that was a good place to see what a deathmatch should look like.
00:58:50
Speaker
Because I feel like we've seen a lot of death matches where people are purposefully getting thrown into it with like no pageantry. Where in those FMW matches, and you notice Janela doing a lot of this because that's what he grew up on, you know, when he's getting whipped into the barbed wire, he's stopping. The story of the match for him is, I don't want to land in this. And that should be the story of the match, rather than just two dudes destroying each other, which should eventually come, but I would like to see them not want that to happen to them for a minute.
00:59:21
Speaker
I don't know, I'm so torn on how to feel about this. I basically just made my own admission a second ago, which is that there is a difference, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Why I care so much, basically it's what I said earlier about, you just care more about the human brain.
00:59:44
Speaker
Like pain is temporary and scars to the body or whatever, like that's fine, but you can't just lose brain cells. Maybe that's what it is. It is weird seeing people get like bodily damage done, scars that are going to be there for the rest of their lives for my personal enjoyment. And I don't know. For some people, that's their favorite kind of wrestling. And I think for me, I'm okay with it occasionally.
01:00:16
Speaker
So like you wouldn't if there were one deathmatch on a show that you were going to now, you wouldn't think that's too much. You'd be like, all right, I can handle one out of seven. No, I'll go a step further. I'm only OK with the to me. It's like the same. It's like the problem WWE has with fucking gimmick paper views. Like.
01:00:39
Speaker
The whole idea of weapons and all of that shit is that the feud has escalated to a point where the people hate each other, where it's gone beyond being an athletic competition and it's about legitimate hate and causing somebody damage, bodily harm, and agony. And it has to escalate that point. To me, if you just book two people in a fucking death match and throw it on a card and you have one of those on the show every time just to appeal to the people in the audience who are into that,
01:01:09
Speaker
I don't like that. I think once in a while, like maybe once a year, I'm just throwing shit out there as to what I would probably think is acceptable. As is me. But what if a guy gets in a feud with a deathmatch wrestler? A guy who like at this point we think of Jimmy Havoc pretty much as a deathmatch wrestler.
01:01:31
Speaker
When this is kind of my point is that like, I don't, I think I personally think people who specialize as death match wrestlers kind of undermine the whole idea of pro wrestling storytelling. I feel like I hurt your feelings, but that's just how I feel.
01:01:52
Speaker
Are you telling me that GCW has just turned into Monday Night Raw because of all of their violence? Just, it's gotten old, it's gotten stale? I'm not trying to be Jim Cornett, Garrett. I'm just letting you know that once you see people whack each other 75 times with light tubes,
01:02:13
Speaker
And one fucking match. I mean, a suplex just doesn't do anything for you anymore. Right now, it feels like you're a cult leader trying to draw me out of the thing I enjoy and watch what you like. Fair enough.
01:02:28
Speaker
I know I see what I honestly could see why anyone would not enjoy that or I could also see why somebody could enjoy it It is for me. It's been an acquired taste where the first time I saw it I screamed and shrieked and I still do But I know what to expect now when I'm getting myself into it
01:02:46
Speaker
See, that's the thing as I think the thing with me and deathmatch wrestling is that it's not even necessarily like all about the fact that I'm squeamish and I don't like seeing the damage. I think to me as somebody who appreciates good storytelling and things kind of somewhat making sense.
01:03:06
Speaker
It's hard to pull back from that once you've gone that far. So to me, this being the last match at Fighter Fest, and obviously this isn't going to be an issue we have to talk about on the reg because Tony Khan has kind of nixed that idea. But I think this was the perfect way to end the show because there was nowhere else to go from here.
01:03:27
Speaker
And I think, to me, creatively, that's what Deathmatch Wrestling does. You either have to have a show, like we saw last year, where the entire card is that, and you're just numb to it, or it has to be the peak part of a feud where it just makes sense. Whatever. We don't have to keep talking about Deathmatch Wrestling, even though it was the main event of the show. I really enjoyed the Moxley-Ginella match.
01:03:52
Speaker
Do you think both guys look good in it? Do you think Janela is going to came out looking better than he did going in? Where do you think he sticks? Obviously Moxley looks good. Where does Janela stand after this? I think the whole purpose of this match, and this is going back to when we had our our episode where we reviewed Double or Nothing, we were talking up how great Joey Janela was.
01:04:18
Speaker
I hope that he saw this match the way I saw it. This elevated him. This was a big time former WWE guy giving a in ring endorsement to another guy who wrestled a similar style.
01:04:37
Speaker
And, uh, hung with him in the ring and he, he, I mean, he kind of, see there was so many comments after the show was over with people saying, AEW made more stars in like, you know, one show or one couple months than WWE has done in years. And there was a bunch of disagreement over whether or not that statement was true. I can tell you that.
01:04:59
Speaker
At least at Fighter Fest, there were, if you're not a regular viewer of indie wrestling or any wrestling outside of WWE, I'm sure there were two or three people in particular you walked away from this show with memories of, and Janela was one of them. Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of people that'll never forget the thumbtacks and the feet. Correct.
01:05:21
Speaker
whether that's a good or bad thing for his career, they're gonna remember that they saw it happen. And also, he had that fucking awesome elbow drop
Internet Personality Superhuman and WWE Changes
01:05:29
Speaker
from the top of the ladder. Dean took every, John, I'm sorry, took every bit of that. It looked like he just crushed him. It was a beautiful elbow drop too. Can we talk about that? It may have been the best elbow drop I've ever seen.
01:05:44
Speaker
I'm not kidding. It was perfect. It looked like a video game animation. That's how perfect it was. Derek, what do you think? Just speaking of deathmatch wrestling here for a second. I know the show's wrapping up here. Superhuman. Take our time, man. It's 4th of July. You've been watching Superhuman on Twitter? I have been watching Superhuman on Twitter. We got to talk about it because
01:06:14
Speaker
he's kind of like I saw one video I can't remember how many weeks ago and thought well that guy's fucking crazy like whatever it to me it felt it took me back to the days when you would see the old commercials on TV advertising those backyard wrestling DVDs and me thinking wow that guy's fucking crazy and dumb but I'll watch it I have since gone and watched several more
01:06:39
Speaker
He's what? He's an aspiring stuntman? I would call him a stuntman. I don't know what else you would call him. I'm just handing it to him. I can't remember what it says on his profile. I think that's what he wants to be is he's a stuntman. Well, he is a stuntman and I think that he would be a great person for us to have on this show. I don't think he would do it. It sounds like GCW has tried to get him to partake in a match and he has no interest because he's a stuntman.
01:07:06
Speaker
Can you, for somebody who doesn't know who we're talking about, describe who superhuman is? Superhuman looks like your friend's sweet mate from college, who...
01:07:22
Speaker
I'm trying to think like he definitely played video games and kept to himself but he does have his own hobbies his hobbies being standing on his porch I don't know how tall would you say the guy is like he's he's under five ten
01:07:38
Speaker
He's like five five five six. That's my guess shorter fellow He's wearing a shirt that says down with the clown shaggy hair beard. Honestly looks like a wrestling fan But then he says he starts each video by saying this is for all my gigalos and gigalettes Don't try this at home and before he performs his stunt He removes his shirt and shouts fuck that shit or fuck this shit and then yep hurls his body onto something painful
01:08:08
Speaker
Whether it's a batch of light tubes, whether it's a chair with, you know, barbed wire. And maybe some cacti. Yep. This guy is out there putting his own untrained body through the kind of pain that you will only see wrestlers and death matter. And here's the fucked up thing.
01:08:30
Speaker
I understand with most wrestling why they call it professional wrestling. You have a skill, you get good at it, and then you go perform it in front of other people, and you do it in a way that nobody gets hurt if you're doing it right. The thing about deathmatch wrestling, I don't think there's anyone who's a professional deathmatch wrestler.
01:08:54
Speaker
I think it's a lot of improvisation and you fucking just do it for real for other people's entertainment. So to see basically a shorter, typical looking pro wrestling fan out there exposing himself to the harsh elements of hardcore wrestling. It's funny as fuck.
01:09:18
Speaker
I enjoy it. As I've said to you before we started this podcast, the words fuck this shit is exactly what I would say if I was forced to do any of these things that he's doing. Honestly, I'm just a little jealous that he beat us to the punch. You know, we could have been doing this for years. We could have made a name for ourselves on the internet, Derek. You don't have the stomach for what he does, Garrett.
01:09:44
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. And by the stomach, you mean you ran away from a death match that you weren't even involved in. And speaking of his stomach, there are videos where he'll chug hot sauce and then just run as fast as he can into a hard object. There's one where you just chug some hot sauce, then runs full speed into the side of a brick house. Fuck.
01:10:08
Speaker
That's a skill, my friend. You can't learn. You can't be taught that. You just if our if our listeners don't know who this is, how can they look up superhuman on Twitter? Well, he's actually got a two week break right now because of a movie he did. He pulled his groin and he's out for two weeks. So no, this is going to be the longest two weeks of my life waiting for a new superhuman video. You know. We talked so long about fighter fest.
01:10:35
Speaker
It's fucked up because last week we released our episode and then like right before we get ready to promote the fact that we have a new episode out, news breaks, and the hot story for the past week has been that Paul Heyman is taking over Monday Night Raw and Eric Bischoff is taking over SmackDown. And you and I kind of lost our minds over this. Garrett, I guess we have a pro wrestling podcast. Do you want to talk about it a little bit before we get off the air?
01:11:03
Speaker
I mean, we can. I think at this point, everybody probably has very similar feelings. I have seen nothing but mixed reactions to this. To me, the majority of the reactions have been, we're all excited about Heyman, we're nervous about Bischoff. That is not what I have seen. So now I'm even more excited to talk about it. Yeah, well, tell me. Those are my thoughts. Like when I heard Heyman, I got excited. When I heard Bischoff, I was like, yeah, we'll see.
01:11:30
Speaker
Well, I definitely agree with that part. I don't have anything to argue in that regard. I think we all are more familiar with Haman's work because he's been involved with the product for so long. And you know, he mentors a lot of people backstage at WWE. So we kind of give him the benefit of the doubt, especially since he's been on the creative team with WWE before. I think people have a lot of negative connotations with Bischoff.
01:11:58
Speaker
And I think there's a, there's a general sentiment with Bischoff is that he was part of the problem at WCW, which may be true to a certain extent, but I, to me, my initial reaction was excitement. If for no other reason than.
01:12:17
Speaker
It means that Vince got to a point where he was so desperate for doing something that made people happy or changed the way things were going, or just to get a fresh perspective on things, he brought in basically his two biggest rivals from 20 years ago to get their perspective on pro wrestling. And I think the main thing I've seen is people being skeptical as to how long of a leash he's actually gonna give to him and Bischoff.
01:12:47
Speaker
to take over the shows. I think a lot of people are like, none of this is going to matter anyway, because Vince is just going to nix everything. But what's, I don't know what the point of bringing those guys in is, if they're not going to have an impact on the show. False sense of hope. Just creating despair. Is he fucking Bane now? This is the hope spot before WWE really tanks. I think
01:13:16
Speaker
I don't know. I think I felt like when you heard the news, you had the same reaction as me where we were both really excited about it because it was a big fucking story. And I did notice differences on TV this week. Well, from what I understand, they have not done anything yet. Like they've started going, but they said that everything that's happened so far was already part of the plans.
01:13:39
Speaker
Sure. That they're taking over after extreme rules or something. They're not, well, they can't do a hard pivot after everything they've been building. You know what I mean? Like, they can't just strip everybody in the titles, strip everybody of their titles and start with new storylines.
01:13:54
Speaker
Two weeks from extreme rules. Oh, yeah, and I get that and it I don't know It was something that when the news came it was like what seven o'clock in the morning eight o'clock in the morning I was yeah I was just getting to work and that news came and I Walked over to Leah and I said I think I need to go home
01:14:18
Speaker
She's like, why? I think Vince McMahon's stepping down and she's like, oh, I see. Did you shit your pants a little bit?
01:14:29
Speaker
I didn't really know how to react because it's something we'd thought about for so long. And obviously I would seem fake. It did a little bit. It felt like I was feel like like an onion article. Well, I had to check the source like three times to make sure it wasn't a fake Sports Illustrated or wherever I read it. Right. I did the same thing. I'm excited about it.
01:14:58
Speaker
I brought this up to somebody, I can't remember who I said this to. Think of how much shit people give to Vince Russo about how much bullshit he laid on the table that Vince had to sift through during the Attitude Era to squeeze out the occasional golden nugget.
01:15:17
Speaker
We know how we feel about Paul Heyman and what a genius people think he is for the wrestling business. There's no way that Eric Bischoff's ideas or perspective on pro wrestling, if they're being, I don't know, what's the word for it? If they're being monitored, they can't be any worse than Vince Russo. They just can't be.
01:15:47
Speaker
You don't seem confident in that. I was like, what are your concerns with Bischoff? I mean, yeah, it's the same concerns everybody has. It's the guy that, you know, helped drive WCW down, right? I mean.
01:16:00
Speaker
But he's also the same guy that helped drive it up. I feel like I'm weirded out that whenever people think of Bischoff, they think about the part of the story where the AOL Time Warner merger kind of killed the company creatively with their freedom, but they don't want to talk about the part where he was the guy who came up with everything that made WCW kick the shit out of WWE for so long. That's true.
01:16:25
Speaker
That's true, and I'm gonna be open-minded to watching it. I mean, I hope it gets good. I would love for it to get good. I want... I want the problem of having too much content to watch again. We gave the listeners plenty of content this week, that's for damn sure. You sure it was enough? Well, let's look. Well, they were really... They were looking forward to hearing about that ROH show.
01:16:51
Speaker
Were they really? Is that what they wanted to talk about? They wanted to hear your reaction to Flip Gordon being a bad motherfucker now. Also, I think that Dalton Castle owes Dragon Lee a thank you basket of fruits and different baked goods, maybe, for making him look so good. I was going to say, you said that they had an amazing match together at that ROH pay-per-view. Dragon Lee's awesome, and he can...
01:17:19
Speaker
Dalton Castle really really needed this I can't remember the last time that Dalton Castle was in a place where he looked really good and For really he this finally brought him up again gave him a good match made me feel like that. He has a future I
Podcast Support and Glastonbury Highlights
01:17:38
Speaker
I haven't been paying attention our wage enough So I appreciated your dedication on a Friday night to sit down and watch this show
01:17:45
Speaker
Oh, also, maybe the thing that got me to pop the hardest, they had a couple of debuts. Eli Drake debuted. He actually filled in for Colt Cabana, who's out with a knee injury. And the one that got me excited, there was a women's match. And you know, we've talked ad nauseam about the Ring of Honor women's division and how it's not great. They debuted, they had the debut of a Maria Maniac, which is Schlax's girlfriend.
01:18:14
Speaker
Yes, I think she's awesome. She has where it says man eater. It looks like it's carved into her stomach is a tattoo. I think she's really cool. She's you know, just she better than Schlack. Well, isn't Schlack God or there is what is it? There is no God. There's only Schlack. I believe that's what his shirts say. Oh, fucking Greg. Fucking Schlack.
01:18:43
Speaker
Fuck, I hope we see Metal Dave and the boys at, uh, All Out.
01:18:48
Speaker
Metal Dave and the boys you and I I got the news from you We're gonna be doing more wrestling than just all out that weekend, buddy Yeah, I really really have been wanting to go to AAW again and they're doing a two-night tournament all out weekend so we have tickets to both nights and Fuck I love a pro wrestling tournament So this turned from one day of pro wrestling into three consecutive days of pro wrestling and I feel like myself again This is gonna be great
01:19:16
Speaker
It's going to be a pro wrestling vacation for you here in Chicago. So excited. And we don't have all out tickets yet. So if you got the hookup, let us know. Otherwise we're going to StubHub. That's probably what's going to happen. But if you just love us so much that you want to help us out, I will accept that as well.
01:19:33
Speaker
Actually, if you love us so much and want to help us out, there's another way you can help us out. That's by hopping on iTunes, giving us five stars, leaving a nice review. Guys, if we can get six more reviews by July 15th, I'll get the Kodo Ibushi haircut. That's probably not happening.
01:19:51
Speaker
But, whatever, you love the show, let us know. Let us know what you like about it. Helps us out, gets our name out there a little bit more. Also, if you haven't already, follow us on social media. We're at Predetermined Podcast on Instagram, at WrestleHangout on Facebook, at WrestleHangout on Twitter. You wanna email us something, you have a suggestion of something you want us to talk about, you can email us, predeterminedpodcast at gmail.com.
01:20:20
Speaker
I don't know what else we can add to this episode. We've talked for so long, and I just hope that we've been able to provide a quality piece of pro wrestling entertainment on this 4th of July, Garrett.
01:20:31
Speaker
I actually do have one last thing I would like to say if you don't mind. Oh, fucking, of course you do. What is it? What is it? Get it out. Okay, so over the weekend was a music festival in the UK. I believe it was called like Glastonbury or something like that. And I was just watching YouTube videos and it started playing me different performances from this music festival. One of the headliners was The Killers.
01:20:55
Speaker
And as it was playing, I noticed that the guitarist of the Killers had a Jake the Snake action figure attached to his microphone stand. Actually, the same Jake the Snake figure that was my very first pro wrestling toy.
01:21:11
Speaker
And did you pop for this? I did pop for that. But I met the Killers many years ago. They had just put out that album, Sam's Town. And do you remember one of five seven, The Point and St. Louis? I do. They played a fair amount of what I would call butt rock.
01:21:29
Speaker
Things of that nature. Well, they were having their festival and the killers were headlining and they were having a contest and it said, who do you want to meet? Write us a letter saying why you're their biggest fan. And they were going to, every single band was going to have a contest winner. And I looked through the list of bands and I didn't care, but I thought to myself, no one who listens to this radio station is going to write a letter trying to meet the killers.
Meeting The Killers: A Fan's Tale
01:21:56
Speaker
So I did. I wrote it. It took me like two minutes. I immediately won this fucking contest. So me and my friend Jane had to go backstage. I say had to like it was punishment. So we had to go back to they took us backstage to meet the killers who both of us were like, all right. You know, like it's it's fine.
01:22:19
Speaker
They bring them over to us and they let us talk to them individually one at a time. That's how they treated this. You didn't get to talk to the collective group. It was very awkward. And the drummer comes by, fine. Very nice guy. He gave me helpful tips about sunglasses. That's what I remember from that. Brandon Flowers comes by and is wearing a weird jacket. Jane says to him, that's an interesting jacket. Can I feel that? He's like, oh, sure. She feels the jacket. Guitarist comes over. This is where everything goes south.
01:22:50
Speaker
He has on him, once again, weird jacket. Jane says, do you mind if I touch that jacket? He rolls his eyes so big and lets out the deepest sigh, then sticks his arm out in the motion as if you were trying to get somebody to kiss your ring. And then just looks up into the side and just goes, quickly. Wow. What is that?
01:23:20
Speaker
That's a dick? Yeah, that is a dick move, but apparently likes Jake the Snake, so I guess he's okay. That's what you chose to close this week's episode with. Well, I opened with that cult shit. I figured I'd just as well end it with a shitty story about the killers not being super nice.
4th of July Plans and Wrestling Pay-Per-View
01:23:41
Speaker
Oh, fuck. I don't have a cool story.
01:23:48
Speaker
Happy 4th of July, everybody. Yeah, go enjoy your fireworks. Go do what I'm doing right now. If you're listening to this on the 4th of July, get on the Fight TV app. Today, GCW is having a pay-per-view at 3 o'clock in the afternoon central time, and it is all backyard wrestling. It is literally taking place in somebody's backyard with trampolines, mattresses, and GCW wrestlers are going by their original backyard wrestling names. Joey Janela is Kid Suicide.
01:24:17
Speaker
in this pay-per-view. But that only applies to today if you're listening to the day the episode comes out. It might not be available. It might be a busy day, Garrett. Hey, you might not be available. Go on there and check it out anyway. That's what I'm doing. We're having a Fourth of July party, and I think that anybody that walks through the living room is going to be deeply confused when everyone's outside partying and I'm inside watching guys jump on a trampoline. Happy Fourth of July, says Garrett.
01:24:46
Speaker
Hit our goddamn pyro.