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Brewski, Barleywine & Brisbane's Beautiful Beer Community
571 Plays2 months ago
Few venues have made an impact on their city's beer scene quite like Brewski, the Brisbane venue opened by Antoinette Pollock and Matt Emmerson back in 2013.
It was one of the first to wholeheartedly embrace craft beer and, along with its notable peers and the teams behind each of them, helped create one of the most colourful, creative and welcoming beer communities in Australia. Fired by a love of big beers and outlandish events, Brewski's reputation spread far beyond Brewsvegas, becoming a second home for many.
In July 2024, Matt and Ant announced they'd made the hard decision to close; changing economic realities meant continuing to operate such a venue in the heart of Caxton Street was no longer viable.
Given all they'd brought to the local beer world, we asked them to join us for a chat about the Brewski years, their approach to running multifaceted beer venues, the rise of craft beer, the future for beer bars, marketing and plenty more.
Then, two days before this show was published, we learned there was a silver lining: they're opening another My Beer Dealer bar-bottleshop in Fortitude Valley and have, of course, grand plans for their new baby: they want it to be one of the biggest drink-in bottle shops in the country.
Also discussed in the episode are the collapse of Valhalla Brewing and associated beer distribution business Lotus, plus the news that Brisbane brewers Slipstream are opening a venue on the Sunshine Coast.
NB: The main interview was recorded prior to The Crafty Pint Podcast launching and is audio-only. There's some inconsistency in the sound, in part due to recording in the venue, but there's much to enjoy in the discussion too, hosted by Mick Wüst and Craig Williams.
Links referenced in or relevant to the show:
Valhalla Liquidation Impacting Multiple Indie Brewers: https://craftypint.com/news/3552/valhalla-brewing-to-be-liquidated-multiple-indie-brewers-counting-the-cost
Slipstream Opening On Sunshine Coast: https://craftypint.com/news/3549/slipstream-to-open-a-venue-on-the-sunshine-coast
Brewski To Close: https://craftypint.com/news/3507/brewski-to-close-after-a-decade-of-beers
Ten Lessons From Ten Years: Brewski – https://craftypint.com/news/3288/brewski-ten-lessons-from-ten-years
Bendigo On The Hop 2024: https://www.bendigobeer.com/both-2024
The Crafty Cabal: https://craftycabal.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Context
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the Crafty Point Podcast. I'm Will. And I'm James. Welcome back, everybody, um to what's going to be a somewhat different episode for you this week, um especially if you become accustomed to watching the show on YouTube. We recorded the interview with Matt and Ant from Broosky before we kicked off the show. A couple of our Queensland team dropped into recording their bar. So it will be an audio-only show. So we've decided to keep that and the same the whole way through.
Travel Plans and Breaking News
00:00:35
Speaker
At the same time, our producer Matt has just flown to the States to visit family and Will, um around about two hours from now, what will you be up to? I will be getting on a flight to WA, so there's a lot going on in the world of Crafty Pine and um time is against us, as always.
00:00:54
Speaker
So bear with us if there's the odd audio issue along the way. and We even had a bit of breaking news, which we'll get to shortly before we get to the main interview. um But yeah, so it's been, ah yeah, I guess it very 2024 week for us over the last few days. The fun never stops.
Blackman's Point Break Brewery International Experience
00:01:11
Speaker
ah Before we get into the news, James, what have you been up to? Well, I didn't think you should be the only one having all the festival fun. So I headed down to Torquay the weekend to check out Blackman's Point Break Brewery International. ah The forecast was for some pretty cold weather and a fair bit of rain, and the rain very kindly swept north of Torquay, so we had a beautiful sunny day, set out festival, the first one they've done down that way, really just great atmosphere. um I jumped behind the bar with Moogledoo from poured beers most of the afternoon, which is nice to do every now and then, and
00:01:42
Speaker
just a lot of very happy brewers, a lot of very happy punters. um So I'm sure we'll be seeing that festival tool run again. And it was all actually a good opportunity to check out some of the other Surf Coast breweries. I popped down to Salt Brewing um at the Iconic Aries Inlet Pub, had a chat to their new brewer, and Austin, a surfer from l LA originally. So we'll be chatting to him down the line. He's got some interesting stuff coming up. um And also once the festival was over, I popped over to Bell's Beach Brewing ah where they were hosting a Metallica covers band and they've got some pretty cool stuff going. on They've been doing a single hop um sort of hazy series recently, so we'll be catching up on all all new things with them. So yeah, it was just I guess it was a kind of a reminder that for all the the challenges that the beer industry is facing and the doom and gloom, you know there's a lot of there's a lot of breweries out there, not just you know and in the cities and the suburbs, but regionally that are
00:02:34
Speaker
really kicking goals. And it was just great to, you know, experience such a sort of buzz from three breweries, you know, within probably what, half an hour's drive of each other. Well, within 20 minutes walk if you're talking Blackmans and Bells Beach. Yeah,
Valhalla Brewery's Liquidation Impact
00:02:48
Speaker
yeah, absolutely. um in In that local news, though, obviously, we've recently run a story on Valhalla, who after going into voluntary administration, are now being liquidated. So that brewery will be wound up and there's Because Valhalla slash Lotus is also a distributor, um there's been quite a number of independent breweries who have lost a pretty significant amount of money in the whole ordeal as well.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's it's ah it's slightly different, isn't it, to most cases? And I guess it's a you know reminder of what is guy what is going on there, because you know they were very much part of that sort of Geelong surf coast scene as well. um And as people can read in your article that we've we put out this week, you know I guess it has sort of shone a bit of a spotlight on a number of the issues facing the industry, whether it's around you know how you know, breweries are paying for the beer as soon as they put it out there, but then chasing invoices and um just just a number of issues as well. But we'll we'll put a link to that in in the show notes. um and And yeah, and then looking ahead, so you you say you're jumping on it on a plane um in in a couple of hours, Will, so what what lies ahead for you?
Swan Valley and Frothtown Plans
00:03:54
Speaker
So I'll be at the swan in the Swan Valley for a couple of days, checking things out there. And um then, um yeah, Frothtown is taking place this weekend, which I couldn't be more excited to check out. I've heard nothing but good things. And ahead of it, we've got a really fun event with Fat Brew Club as well. There may still be tickets available when you're listening to this. So if you are in Perth, yeah take a look, although time would be against you.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think so you probably be listening to this and having to buy tickets and jump on a train to that brew club pretty much in an instant. um I guess the the big thing for us with froth town this year. I guess people will when they come in and pick up their froth town glass. They'll see a bit of crafty pine branding on the way in but something new we're trialing that we're pretty excited about we've got the um ah Festival version of our long-running crafty crawl concept going ah so if you are heading heading along to the festival keep an eye out for ah the crafty crawl posters um Get your phone out scan the QR code. There's a bit of fun to be had solving clues and making your way between half a dozen breweries um Anyone that completes the set will get a little ah
00:04:59
Speaker
gift to take home on the day and also enter a competition to win beer from all the participating brewers and a few other things as well so that should be a bit of fun. um Not at all jealous that you're the one heading over there this time Will? Yeah it should be cool we've wanted to do something like this for a long time the idea of having sort of pop-up stuff within other festivals so it's it's a really great thing to froth to Frost Town to allow us to do, and um yeah, really looking forward to seeing how people get
Crafty Crawl Festival Activity
00:05:27
Speaker
into it. We think it's a really fun, additional activation for a beer festival that people should get a lot out of, I reckon, yeah for even beer drinkers alike.
00:05:37
Speaker
For sure. No, I don't want to and make you miss your flight. So I think we'll head over to our roving reporter Mick Wust in Brisbane um with the the breaking news ah around the brewski team, after which we'll head straight into the chat with Ant and Matt. um And yeah, we'll see you next week. See you later. Cheers.
Brewski's New Venture in Fortitude Valley
00:05:58
Speaker
Cheers.
00:06:08
Speaker
on here with Mick Wust, who's been writing for the Crafty Plant for a number of years now, um at one stage in Sydney, now back up in Brisbane. um How you going, Mick? Doing great, buddy. Excellent. Now, and before we get to the main chat that you and Craig recorded with Matt and Ant um at Brewski, I guess around about the time they announced the closure of their venue, um I believe there's a bit of an update you have for us just from this week. There is indeed. ah As of this week, in fact, when I was speaking to them, they were just signing the paperwork.
00:06:37
Speaker
on a place in Fortitude Valley. So they're going to open another My Beer dealer drinking bottle shop in the Valley, all right near the train station on Alford Street. Excellent. and And that's
Slipstream Brewery's Expansion
00:06:47
Speaker
imminent. That's sort of ah on it's on its way soon. Yeah. Yes. They said they're aiming for early October. They'll give them maybe a month or so after Bruski closes for them to do the fit out. I maybe have a very small breather maybe in there. um But yeah, the start of October, they're they're looking for in there. They're aiming to make this kind of beautiful,
00:07:06
Speaker
you know drink in bottle shop. that They're not sure if it'll be Australia's biggest or not, but that's sort of the way they're pushing towards. They'll have a lot of fridges with singles, bottles and cans. um Obviously mostly beer, but they're going to be pushing the wine as well. um They're going to have six taps, small food offering. um It sounds like it's going to be a pretty pretty sweet spot.
00:07:29
Speaker
So the legacy of Ant and Matt will like live on in Brisbane, which is great to hear, and which I guess it was always going to do with the my beer dealer stores, but um to give them, a I guess, a you know, a consumer facing venue as well, which is great. um like And I guess it's not the only and positive news in the sort of southeast Queensland beer scene. um you Tell us a little bit about what's been happening with Slipstream.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's exciting to hear about their new venue. They're going to open up on the Sunshine Coast up at Batinya, which is one of those, you know, weird, I still think of as a new suburb, those invented suburbs. um It's got a lot of people there who are into good beer. So Slipstream is going to have a what was a 300 person menu up there. Yeah, ah look, I've always thought Slipstream, you know, they kind of they're underrated in some ways because they're always making great beers, and that was true under Ian Watson, it's true under Gavin Croft now, gone from strength to strength, they've been winning awards this year, they've got their shares back from Mighty k Craft, they're, yeah, I'm really excited to see them spread their wings even further. Yeah, so I think, you know, having had those two bits of sort of closure news, the Dutch Trading Co and Bruce Key, pretty much within 24 hours of each other, it's great to have some, you know, more positive news to look forward to for but for beer lovers in in Queensland and in WA. And yes, so thanks for,
00:08:46
Speaker
getting the update for us. And now we'll head on to the the main chat with with Matt and Ant, which I guess, you know, it's not just talking about the closure of Broosky, but they're 10 years involved in the the Brisbane beer scene and all that kind of stuff. um And yeah, so we'll let, and we'll note that we're seeing you on on future podcasts as well. Absolutely. Hearing me, searing me as much as you can get at me. Exactly. like Nice one. All right. Cheers, mate. Thanks, mate.
Brewski's Closure and Community Impact
00:09:19
Speaker
I'm Mick Wooster, writer from The Crafty Pint, here with Craig Williams, driving the podcast for The Crafty Pint, and Matt and Ant from Briski and My Beer Dealer. Victor Jonius, guys. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Oh, you're having us, I suppose. Oh, yeah. But it's at a sad time, of course. It's just after you've announced Briski closing up. How are you feeling?
00:09:42
Speaker
real mix of emotions, to be honest. it's I guess it's it's been a long time coming to this this point. So now that we've announced it, it feels like there's a ah weight off, but also the there's there's a a lot of sadness, but also a lot lot of um i know happiness and fulfilment with all the fa yeah great ah feedback we've had from people and love we've gotten back from them. i get Yeah, we've had an overwhelming support of people.
00:10:10
Speaker
very sad but also you know very understanding and and just reminiscing about all the wonderful times they had at brewski which has been yeah super emotional but yeah yeah very encouraging and heartening yeah what was it like i mean it was a couple of weeks now since you did the announcement what was it like actually like that moment to that day like um we're telling the world oh oh You were fine. yeah yeah Just write the post, would you? Get over there. I was literally in tears going to press the post button on on the Facebook post. It was like, that was, I think, just that it was it was going to be real as soon as I pressed that button. And that was, yeah. No going back. yeah Yes. Yeah. When that showed being what he'd written, you know, it was, you know, it was like very sad. Yeah. Really sad. But yeah. Are there any particular comments that stood out or?
00:11:01
Speaker
Yeah, right now. um I think I have my first date there. I met my wife there. I i had 17 Tinder dates and, you know, one finally worked out. And it's it's all those little special moments that I think got up to. yeah Yeah. Yeah. I was just talking to a regular just a couple of nights ago and, you know, he said, look, I had my first IPA here and I just I was like, oh, my gosh. And then and then his friend was like, well, I had my first doubt I actually enjoyed here. And he said, you know, I never thought I was a stout person until I tried one of your fanciest doubts and um changed my life forever as far as you know the love of stout so those little you know those little conversations and that we've had with people since oh yeah they they're so you know just really connecting there was one comment I like
00:11:48
Speaker
I don't think I told you about that a ah German guy was holidaying here and he said, you you inspired me to open my own bar in back in Germany and you'd post the link and everything and so I haven't responded to him yet but that was like, what? Yeah, to yeah that was that was one of the ones that went, oh, that's that's pretty it's amazing. that In some sense, of course, running a business is it's selling a product, it's only a living, but then that you're part of people's lives and you're changing people's lives.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah yeah that's that's pretty special. Yeah, look, at I think we always set out to build a community. That was something we wanted. We, you know, we'd spent some time in the UK and we saw the pub culture there and how important the local was and people came together there. Yeah, they were drinking, but they were also connecting with each other and it was their regular CHA local. And we always wanted to create that and have that environment where people could keep coming back and see someone they know and, you know,
00:12:44
Speaker
and know the people around them as well as discovering this you know crazy beer scene that was happening and unfolding you know in front of their eyes. So I think we achieved that. And yeah, I think that's what well um one of the things I'm most proudest of is that community that we created. i think I think certainly if you're you know taking inspiration from European pub culture, and now you've got Europeans taking inspiration from your pub culture and bringing it back, that's mission accomplished. Yeah, totally. Absolutely.
00:13:17
Speaker
So I mean, I know you talked about this a little bit when you spoke to us for the article, but yeah, tell us how it came about. Tell us how you how you do make a decision to close the doors on 10 years of brewski. Look, um you know, it was probably, oh gosh.
00:13:34
Speaker
couple of years of just going, you know, it was, ah it was becoming a tough slog. It was, you know, we were, we'd come off the back of COVID, which was, you know, horrendous for everyone in hospitality. Well, everyone in the world for everything, let's be honest, right? So it was, it was, you know, we, we opened the two bottle shops in two years.
00:13:54
Speaker
So that was hard work as well, but super rewarding. And it was hard to juggle everything as well. um I think so, you know, there's many reasons. And we, you know, we came to a point where we went, look, we just can't carry the rent, you know, any longer. And if we keep going like this, it's, we're just peddling as opposed to getting ahead. And we've, we just felt like,
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know, there came a point. It took Matt a little bit more convincing. yeah yeah He was dragging his heels a lot with it. There was a lot of pride, I think, that that I was sort of holding back from making that realisation. It's a financial one. It's a business decision. and i was I was the stubborn one in that in that instance. and But yeah, I think that that was the hardest bit. It's just that realization that it's just, what what ah what am I saying? What am I keep trying to keep this going for? It could ruin us. it be Yeah, financial end of us. And and it's enough but that it gets to that point. I think, you know, if you're running a business like ah a hardware shop or something, you know, any other kind of business where it wasn't so much about the passion and the people and and so on, it's probably a much easier decision to make. But I guess when you invested so much of your own energy and spirit into it, it becomes that
00:15:10
Speaker
That's a big heartbreaker. It has to be a financial decision. when You're running a business, but it's not just a financial decision when it's your lifestyle and it's your passion and it's dreams and it's... Yeah, yeah. And this like this place is literally an extension of our our passions and beliefs and, that you know, we it really is. And that's that's I guess that's where the the ego comes into it, where it's like, oh, can you bid me off? And and it's, yeah, we've just got to... Yeah, I think we talked, it I mean, I think when we first opened it, I said, you know, we're having another, you know, we've got one daughter and this was our second child. um And, you know, it's hard to shut that down and say, OK, it's not working for us anymore. So, yeah, it was it was very, very emotional. And but, you know, there comes a point where you go. And then it's also realizing that, you know,
00:15:59
Speaker
That 10 years was was just the most magical time you know i think in craft beer land in Australia. it was just a you know It was a fortunate time for us to be here. We we sort of timed it beautifully and you know all worlds along you know all the planets aligned and we were very lucky to be part of that that scene.
00:16:18
Speaker
um And we're just, you know, we want to be part of it continuing, of course. But it's changing. Everything, you know, everything does, you know, every market changes and grows and and evolves. So you've got to keep moving with it. yeah You know, you can't stand still. Even if we wanted to, and we all wanted to capture that moment in time forever. We can't, you can't. no Nobody can. So but tell us what that
Brewski's Legacy in Brisbane's Beer Scene
00:16:40
Speaker
time has been like. this So you guys have been watching the Be a scene from the inside for the last year 10 years or almost 11 years and Bruce skin scratch are probably two of the most impactful venues in
00:16:52
Speaker
in in sort of creating that ah beer culture. Yeah, talk us through what that 10 years has been like. Brisbane, seeing Brisbane beer become what it is from 2013. It's been a hell of a ride. It's it's it's been, um I guess, really, really proud that I guess but when when we first When I first got into beer, it was all about you know flavor and and and it wasn't a buck against the mainstream, it was just there was no no great flavor going on the mainstream. so But then it became about i guess mucking the bucking the mainstream. and so i guess
00:17:30
Speaker
Finding that sort of flag to fly was you know great great along the way and then finding people that are passionate um along the route. Yeah, I think one of the the wonderful things about this industry, ah particularly in Brisbane, I can't speak for other states, but it was the incredible um connection we had with everyone in the biasing, craft biasing.
00:17:53
Speaker
you know we were great mates with all these guys and we were all in it together and we were all none of us were in competition we were we were building to build this you know beautiful industry we were in competition with mainstream yeah they were our competition and saying you know drink better um and so come to any of our venues we we want you to go to see everybody and you know we felt incredible love from everyone in the craft beer scene and being so supported and we hope we've been supportive of them as well all the way along and that's another massive bonus and you know I don't know if it was like that everywhere in Australia but it anyone in craft beer in Brisbane would say that there's just this beautiful connection and so that was great we built it together you know I think we I think you know they say
00:18:38
Speaker
you know, it's stronger in numbers, right? You're just the more, the more in it. I think that's what made it more powerful is the way that we supported each other. I think in in the early days too, we used to get um brewers up from Melbourne regularly and they had always commented on the biggest thing, how it is so inclusive and they did find it a bit more cutthroat and yeah and competitive. Yeah, yeah whereas whereas here it was definitely, yeah. And you saw that a lot with Bruce Vegas. You know, that festival was such a magical time and we were all so oh who can do the funniest fence or silliest things and and it was that whole knowing that this you know great community of people were so excited about moving from one venue to the next for different events and so forth so I think that was a you know beautiful time at a week in Brisbane that everyone just got out and wanted to jump to as many venues as they possibly could and experience you know. I understand you both met you were working in sort of advertising and and the creative industry sort of before
00:19:35
Speaker
moving into hospitality you know and obviously advertising is a very deadline driven have the idea, refine the idea, get it out there and get it done. Is that is that where that kind of mentality's come from? And how has the rest of that that marketing and advertising sort of background, I guess, helped you out in in running a hospitality business? I'd say that that hustle, and those those um that discipline definitely definitely helps yeah in in a lot of aspects. Yeah, newspaper's not going to wait for you. yeah You know, TV, you know, that deadline's there, you've got to make it happen. So there's no
00:20:08
Speaker
You don't even think there's another option. And I guess we did the same thing. We said we we said we're going to do it. So we didn't even think second that we wouldn't. um Absolutely the deadline driven. I think the other strength of marketing was that you know and lots of people thought we were going to fail because we had no yeah hospitality experience. But we've always been incredibly customer focused.
00:20:31
Speaker
as you are in marketing and you know I'm not you know I kept think probably a lot of other people going into hospitality come from the hospitality angle and they're they're very focused on operation which is great but they're not necessarily thinking about what that means for the customer and that's always been our you know focus first and then say okay everybody in the in the business needs to work around the customer versus the other way well I want to work this way in the business but that doesn't suit the customer so I'd love you to Talk a bit more about that, Ant, because I think you know it's a lot of businesses would say, yep, we're customer-focused, we're customer-first, but I don't know that they that necessarily comes through. And and you know when you guys talk about we're customer-first, what are the what are the real ways that that sort of comes to life for you guys? like is it Is it about the experience or the beers that you're putting on, the events, and where where does that customer come into that planning or thinking?
00:21:28
Speaker
Look, oh do no you um look first of all, I think it's it's understanding your customer. Who are they? We're not going to be something for everyone. So first of all, we need to understand our customer and who we want to attract um and that we're not going to attract everyone. So you know in the very first thing we decided was we're not going to put a couple of particular drinks on our menu um and we were told and and you know everyone on the street and many you you can say to us bunberg i'm not a sponsor of okay so bundy rum and and everyone said yeah not you're gonna close down you know how can you not have Bundy on the street or Forex or whatever street on Caxton Street you're gonna you know you're nuts and so that was a big
00:22:15
Speaker
you know We stuck to our guns, even though a lot of people said, what are you doing? And we were very passionate about making sure that we knew that that wasn't our market. And yes, those people may walk out the door and that's a risk that you're not ticking the box for everyone. and we So um you know what we bought was the number one most important thing was, you know who's our market? What do they really want to drink? Who do we want to attract? So I think that was a big beginning of that. Would you agree? Yeah. yeah I guess once once they're in here though, it's, I guess, and I pretty, you know, warn people. We like to, you know, we we like to get to know people and and, you know, generally give a shit about, you know, how your day was. or But it's also, you know, we're also good at reading people. It's like, you want to be left alone? No problem. But it's, you know, a because we're sort of sharing our passions, you that people will come in that have got similar passions and all of a sudden,
00:23:03
Speaker
yeah here you're engaged and you're you're sharing ideas and and you know different beers and and you know we'd we'd have our quite quite often our event nights um people are bringing a bottle from home to to share with everyone as well so it's like people want to we're sharing and people want to share back and and so I guess that's how I know it's sort of it comes from the person you are if you're if you're and and that you know we're at the top so that's got to filter down through everyone as well but I guess that's um yeah I think we did everything as much as we could with love and and support of the customer and you know we'd we'd often to have staff go oh blah blah wanted to do this and you know I told the customer they couldn't I said no it's okay like most of the time we'll go we'll be open to it and we've always been
00:23:51
Speaker
open to giving the customer what they wanted. You know, we don't say yes to everything, but we listen to them and go, well, does that really affect our business? No, we can do that. But also the marketing, obviously how we present our brand. You know, we we thought very carefully about what our brand was and what it represented and and what you know what what our goals were and our mission statement and so forth. So we we spent a lot of time on that and where we wanted to be in the market. You know, and I think we had lofty dreams of being the What was it best, you know? or like Literally in our first business plan was like we want to be recognised as the leader of craft beer in Brisbane and Queensland and in in the top you know five, ten of Australia I think it was and and so yes we were very driven to but and really I used to get the shits with going down ah to Melbourne to Good Beer Week and going why why can't we access this this great
00:24:43
Speaker
this great beer. And so I was really driven to share those get those experiences back up here. And so I worked really hard on those relationships with suppliers and get to to try and deliver exactly that. and got Yeah. And Matt, you know, we we spent money we shouldn't have spent. There's no doubt about it. A lot. And we we know we fight about that a lot. what What the hell? You just bought what? You know, and that happened a lot over the years. And there was a, you know, there had to be a certain leap of faith. Sometimes he just did it and then told you afterwards, what was that, seek forgiveness later or whatever. So he did that a bit. um and And I you know remember that, and that wasn't even that long ago, the Amundsen, you know, he sort of came to me by then saying, I've got this idea, I was going to buy how many cakes of Amundsen beers? It was only 10 cakes. Yeah. Anyone who knows Amundsen beers, they know what that costs.
00:25:35
Speaker
um oh my gosh okay let's take a leap of faith you know and it was it was you know from the minute we walked open the doors till we closed at midnight you know there were people it was nuts it was crazy it was a crazy day yeah like we've drank oh no we drank before um previously about the barley wine festival when we had Which is totally nuts. 16 gigs of barley wine. It was definitely not a a commercial success. No. But I've had, but we had it we had yeah a great crowd of 60 ticketed people come in at 10am to drink barley wines on a Saturday. and Of which two of them might I interrupt. Two of them walked in the door and said, oh, we've never been to Brewsky before. We don't know what barley wines are, but we thought we'd buy a ticket. And I'm like, oh my gosh, are you serious? I went, well, you're in for a treat. Come on in.
00:26:24
Speaker
Talking through, I'd love to hear more about the, what's the kind of customer experience that you're you're looking for out of the kind of part bottle shop, part
New Business Model and Hospitality Insights
00:26:33
Speaker
bar, I guess. You know, that's obviously a whole different skill set for someone working behind a till or whatever it might be. You know, offers you lots of different opportunities to give customer experience and that sort of thing. Like are you looking, is the main driver to sell on-site or is it really around using the on-site experience to then you know, build that cart on the way home kind of thing. How does that work? It's a bit from Colm A, a bit from Colm B, but what I guess we discovered and we've talked about this a lot lately is you've got somebody who loves the same beer and but one person, one customer might only drink at home and one person might only
00:27:18
Speaker
drink in a bar like Brewski or something and but when when we first built Brewski it was like why aren't I getting these customers that that ah that are friends that don't that I know are into beer yeah but <unk>t they just don't come out it's not a part of their lifestyle and so I was like I just couldn't it took me ages to get my head around but we both love this so why like I don't go out so I yeah so i guess having that that both options in one site is is really really attractive so it's've you've got Yeah, you can somebody walks in for for a drink off tap, they might take something home, someone walks in for take away, they might have something off tap.
00:27:56
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:29:34
Speaker
Okay guys, coming back now, we'd love to hear some of the things you've learned over 10 years of running a venue because there must be all kinds of gems that you've picked up, um some from things you've done right, some things you've done wrong. Going from that more corporate world to advertising and so on, into managing a team of hospitality.
00:29:52
Speaker
people and and you know that can range I think from people who see hospitality as a vocation and I want to be the the best bartender in town or whatever that might be right through to you know the uni student who's just kind of doing this on a Saturday to pay some bills or whatever. What what are the tactics that you've found have have worked really well to get people pulling in the same direction? Yeah look um in the early days it was actually hard to find people who knew anything about beer So initially, in the early days, we we we got a lot of people that were, you know, from the UK or Europe. And that worked well. Unfortunately, you can only keep them for six months because that was the, you know, that's the government laws visas. But they gave you everything, you know, in that six months, I always thought they'd trip off and go to places or whatever but no they worked here six months they do every hour you know every hour you gave them and they you know they got so much passion out of it and we've got you know made some lovely friends through that who still talk about when they worked in Australia and brewski and the fun times we had so finding those people that that cared about the beer was really important then it came to a point where we were experienced enough in craft beer that we could teach that
00:31:05
Speaker
And so then we were looking for people who had just the right, you know, they they cared enough about anything. Attitude, you know, warmth. Yeah, because look, I think you either you either love being with people and and serving them and caring about them or you don't and you can't teach that.
00:31:26
Speaker
like you know, we can teach them craft beer because we got we had awesome beer to teach them with. And yeah, so that that was a that was a change for us, wasn't it? we We swapped around and went, no, now we want to find people with the right attitude and we'll teach them about beer. And they got passionate about it anyway. We converted so many people who'd worked in, you know, there's many people who've worked here who would say, now I can't drink here, I can't drink there, you know. yeah So it sort of spoils them for good beer. and that was a big chain yeah for us and and just understanding that they've you know they've
00:32:00
Speaker
They're not getting paid like a corporate, you know? they And they're working harder. They're working harder. Like, this this this is a tough venue to run. And you know on a game day, they're getting absolutely flogged. And it is, yeah, it's, you're asking a lot of them. And I think you you were always, Antoine has always done the rostering and and whatnot, and Antoine has always been very flexible with people's needs. And it's, you know, it's there.
00:32:26
Speaker
work work the roster around their needs as opposed to no these these are these are the hours, take them all or you can piss off. You've done a great job of and and so many staff have been thankful for that. it's like I can play in my punk band when I've got a gig and I know the internet is going to roster around me. and and you know so's Every week's different, it's yeah. it's it's it's not ah It's not an authoritarian, you know, fist that that we, the runner, it's it's it's very, and and look, and sometimes it's to the detriment of detriment of the business. It's like, all right, we've got to go and do that shift because, you know. Yeah, it's just different it's so different to a corporate world where people just worked five days a week and you didn't even have to roster. They just came in and you just had to look after holidays. Here, it's, you're trying to give them the quality of life you can as much as you can.
00:33:14
Speaker
So how about when it comes to the beer itself? You have 16 haps upstairs? Is that right? 12 boxes and 4 downstairs. 16 different beers for the venue. How do you how do you balance that? is it Is it about staying on trend? Is it about reaching different kinds of drinkers? Is it about what's available? All of you both? All of the above. it's It's really, I guess it was a bit more hickory pickle-y in the early days. It was what we could get our hands on and and it's really settled down into, now we've got, I guess, I mean, Bruce Key, we've got three, I guess, sort of more experimental or high ABV sort of taps, you've always got an imperial stout, barley wine, funnily enough.
00:33:55
Speaker
but We've always got three taps of IPA, which always yeah try and have an international IPA, ah ha an Australian hazy and an Australian west coast is basically how we try and run those and then we'll have some easy easy drinking in your pale lagers out high-volume taps. Always got a sour i and and then, depending on the season, have a a Belgian line or a mid-strength line or or something like that. so In the early days it was definitely this Here's a keg of, I don't even know what this bloody song is, let's chuck it on. and if it So yeah, but I think as yeah we sort of learnt and learnt what the market wants and but we're you know and i think that's and people when people come in and we've got the big IPA lights, they they expect, you know, IPAs on on tap. So I think we've got to deliver that but sort of promise. But they're yeah they're also a great seller for us as well. I think it also comes back to your point around, you know you've really got to know your customer. where I think tap lists development or tap list curation is always a big question. Anyone who runs a venue is going to sit there and go, I've got 12 or 16 taps. I've got options here I've got to put on.
00:35:03
Speaker
what's going to work, what's gonna and you know not every tap will be the fast-moving high sellers, but you've got to have that nice balance of what's going to appeal to different customers and get people through the door. of but Yeah, ah but there is that expectation of, you know, you but they expect a couple of fancy beers here, you know, people are walking in and they want to see something a bit different and they do expect IPAs and, you know, you have to have one on it if they're all off for some reason, you know, it's like, well get the IPA back on now. you know yeah But it's it's complicated it's very complicated. We've created a very complicated complicated business. um Ask any staff member who works here and goes, what the hell me just is this tricking? More from a platform point of view, you get these technologies that make one part of your business
00:35:47
Speaker
more streamlined but then all of a sudden over the years you collect yeah three or four platforms and it's like so to change one keg we've got to and put it into four different platforms so between yeah if you are code ordering yeah untapped our point of sale system and our de or electronic decal system it's it's four different touch points to change one keg and it's just like And that's us being customer and-driven. you know We want them to be able to go to our website and see on unt tap what we're tapping. That's customer-focused. We want them to be able to sit at their table and order a drink. We want them to be able to look at the decal that looks beautiful on the on the thing and tell them how many ABVs it is and what's it costing.
00:36:26
Speaker
So it's all been customer driven, but it's very labour intensive in the back. It's funny, we're always talking about the sensory experience of V. This is the digital experience of V. That's right. Yeah, it is. And I feel like COVID was the turning point for that, wasn't it, really? it A lot of it, a lot of the technology happened when COVID happened, for many reasons, or maybe it's just that that's what's happening. You know what I mean? But anyway, there's no i got um I wonder, like,
00:36:54
Speaker
This is something I've noticed a lot more and more over the years. like Australians are very price-conscious, probably everyone in the world is, but I know Australians complain a lot about price. Craft beer is a luxury product, and rent costs money, and beer costs money, and staff costs money. What do you say to someone when they they're like, why does a schooner cost so much? Why does a pint cost so much?
00:37:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's it comes up less than it used to. it It really does. And I think that's probably just we've got a yeah ah mature market that knows what we're about and is as a price expectation when they walk in the door. But look, early days, we've definitely got a lot more of that. And it's yeah i It was always just an explanation of, you know, it's small scale and um'm they're not making it with the cost efficiencies of cast and made Perkins. they they've They've probably got the same amount of stuff as the Forex brewery just behind us and they ma their their output is, you know, one 50th of what, so it's yeah it's when you if you've if you've got a few little quick tools, you know, a few little quips you can throw out, then that that definitely helped, doesn't get everyone over the line. but
00:38:00
Speaker
um yeah for me that was what i used to tell people you know in the early days it was it was very much they're employing a lot more people pro rata of what they're producing and and there's you know that's that's a beautiful thing you know there's there's all these jobs that are being you know that You just don't get in those big big places. um It's also them taking risks, put you know making a beer that those big guys will not make because they don't think it's going to sell very well. you know in these you know These guys, that's how they built their businesses, by making wacky, crazy beers that not everyone buys or they can't sell for what they really should sell. Same with us. so you know If you run a bar, you you have a margin that you need to meet,
00:38:40
Speaker
to to open your doors and cover all your costs. We could never do that with a lot of these big beers. If we if we charge the right margin, we should. We just, no one would buy them. You know, people think that you know the beers have been expensive, but at times we've had to drop our margin dramatically to get them sold.
00:38:57
Speaker
um So it's, you know, and there's definitely a labour of love there, you know, and you you just hope it all works out by more people coming in. But yeah, I think that's just, you know, most people get it if you explain it that way. It's also better, you know, better ingredients.
00:39:13
Speaker
you know, they're putting amazing fruit in it or different, you know, these incredible ingredients that are going into it. One of the early, early scenarios was always you compare your your a standard drinks. Oh, yes. It's like, well, you can go into the caks and then buy a ah pot of gold for, might have been $8 back then, say, or you can have this beer for $13. That's two and a half standard drinks. So it's actually cheaper. but It's actually cheaper.
00:39:39
Speaker
but job with I always say to people the best $22 I ever spent was a schooner of ramjet at Bruski. Nowhere else is selling a schooner of ramjet. It's wonderful. I wasn't lying from the booze, but it was just a delightful night.
00:39:52
Speaker
a what's What's the key to running a good event? Oh, gosh. look it's There's more organizing than people realize. That's for starters. There is a lot to coordinate. yeah You get out what you put in. if you If you just think putting four four beers on from a you know ah brewery, they might be awesome beers and just hoping that's enough to get people in, those days are over. like it's yeah it's It's harder and harder. you've You've got to be creative. You've you've got to but ah but you've got to have a look at what's going on in in in the macro environment too. like there There could be a a dumpling festival at Southbank that you didn't even wasn't even on your radar. and
00:40:30
Speaker
all the people that like craft beer will also like dumplings and so they all they're all over there because they can you know yeah so when we look at our calendar we always go oh no the Scratch has got their weekend attack you know we can't go do it anything that weekend that's crazy you know you wouldn't do it you don't want to compete and you just don't want to you know mess with that um So you you're you're looking at your calendar, you're looking at um you know all those little touch points. I mean, with Bruce Vegas, it was always just how big can we go? The bigger the better. Let's make it creative, make it big. And yeah and you you just went, we can change it every 12 tap every day. How hard can it be? you know and just go pretty hard as it turns out yeah pretty hard and that's what you do every day no we're gonna do ipas today and then we're gonna do this tomorrow then we're gonna do stati as fuck yes you can do a stati as fuck on a tuesday why can't you people drink stati as fucks on a tuesday and they did they queued out the door you know and that's because it was bruise vegas because people took the week off and they went whatever you know we'll do it so
00:41:30
Speaker
You've got to know your place and the timing and it's changed, it's definitely changed. you know you You can't do what you used to do and expect people to walk in the door. um yeah but yeah it's and and you can You can get all your ducks in a row, you can have everything, your marketing can be perfect and and people just, it doesn't resonate. or yeah it's People decided to be broke that weekend. and you just You don't know. and and so it's But it's when when the magic comes together, it's it's beautiful and it's rewarding. and you yeah I think we could talk to you guys for hours, but we shouldn't because our memory card probably won't handle it. You don't lose the end of this, do you? That's right, that's right. um But there are three things I'd love to hit you with, past, present and future. First of all, what would you give to what advice would you give to Matt and Ant of 2013?
00:42:22
Speaker
If you could go back, just give them one piece of advice. Run! No, find everyone you know who has any money and buy their building.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah that's a very good absolutely. that is the The amount of rent we paid in the last 10 and a half years is a scary dollar amount if you can yeah yeah do do a good deal at the beginning of of of your of your business and and yeah that's Try to be the landlord try be if you can. It's such a good point and you know every day you're hearing about bars, restaurants, cafes going through these these sort of similar situations and number one reason for every single one of them is landlords and rent and it's something's broken in that system I think and it needs to be the more control or regulation or
00:43:19
Speaker
or better opportunities for businesses to get the money needed to take that step in the first place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. That's definitely something. I don't know, if that's mine. No, no, that's all right. It's very true.
00:43:33
Speaker
um Jump forward to 2024 and someone else you know is opening a drinking bottle shop. You're not at your competition. um What advice would you give them?
00:43:46
Speaker
oh get on the high yeah location location location no location is so important yeah really I guess yeah whether it's a drinking bottle shop or a bar or a brewery, it's it's just knowing that you're entering um a mature market.
00:44:06
Speaker
You might have seen us or other other people around, the you know they've had varying degrees of success and ah don't don't think you're going to replicate that just because you you've you know you you you can brew a great IPA or you can you know how to sell something. it's it's i guess yeah um Understand that but're not it's it's a different market. and and try get Try and be a part of it and capitalise on that and and really, I guess, know your position again, know know the demographics of of where you're going and try and yeah visit as many other venues as you can in surrounding areas. and
00:44:46
Speaker
and see what works, see what doesn't work, look for opportunities. and e But most importantly, have ah have a checklist of everything that needs to needs to be right for you and don't compromise on that. If there's one box unticked, walk away because that's that'll be that could be your undoing.
Guidance for New Brewers
00:45:05
Speaker
It could be your undoing. It's like have have that have that list and and stick to it.
00:45:10
Speaker
But yeah and look I know it's it's not it's another one, but don't underestimate the power of marketing It will kill you if you don't know how to do brand like you just won't hit you right you won't hit your sweet spot And for the future, what's what's one hope of yours for beer in Brisbane for the future?
00:45:29
Speaker
I would love to see, from a brewing point of view, I would love to see more people start off with a proper brew pub model where they can produce beer and and sell beer on the one premise without relying on wholesale. I just see so many breweries coming out that have just, wholesale's a part of their model and they it's it's they're not making any money of it off it. It's it's hard. They've got to become debt collectors. they There's all these parts that of that that model that don't work on a small scale. And it's gay just,
00:46:08
Speaker
I guess and do do the brewpup model because it it it it works if you can get the right spot and the story do your numbers do a business plan people do a goddamn business plan like it's amazing how many people don't sit down and do the numbers and and actually go what do we need to make here how many bums on seat do we need to do how many seats do we need in this place or you know they're they're not doing the the the business side of things. They're just dreaming that they go, I know how to make great beer. that's That is this much of it. yeah You need to do all this other shit here. I know I said before, look, sure it's gonna be financial, but it's also gotta be passion. Now the flip side, sure it's gonna be passion, but it's also gotta be financial. Oh my gosh, it's just, and and look, you know I love this industry and it's super creative and that's why we were attracted to it too because we've we've always worked in a creative you know industry.
00:46:59
Speaker
But you've got to make fiscal sense. Guys, do your numbers. Don't just dream. What's what's the saying? Fish fish where other other people are not. And yeah I think Gillian's done a great job with with the woods and now her new logo, the clover, like just going into areas that have yeah got great, you know, great income and and and and providing something that's not there. And and I think that's like yeah what why why buy Why go on a cactus tree when there's 13 other bars on the same street? No, that's ah it's actually great. But don no, you're on the main. Look for those opportunities. and And there's still plenty of them. that you just but It just might not be as obvious as as you think.
00:47:43
Speaker
yeah there's still there's still heaps of opportunity out there and and look with this this market and there's there's people coming and going and and there's there's there's great opportunity but just still you know don't be don't see a cheap bar as you know the the answer to your your problem like it like i think uh look at um uh hiker and the the opportunity they've they've gotten with the taking over the black hop site it's that's a smart smart move it's they yeah it's they were It's probably a lot earlier than they expected to do something like that, but yeah they they walked into a venue that was fitted out and ready to rock and roll. Well, thank you guys. Thank you for being vulnerable with us. Thanks for being for sharing your insight with us. And yeah, we're really keen to see Emmat and Antar, yeah, six weeks and six months from now. So are we. yeah So are we. Thanks for the chat. No, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
00:48:40
Speaker
The Crafty Pine Podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty Pine website, craftypine.com and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials. We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with the Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
00:49:10
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, the Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.