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Moon Dog's Marvellous Medicine
469 Plays25 days ago
The craft beer era has given rise to thousands of stories, but none like that of Moon Dog.
Founders Karl van Buuren and brothers Josh and Jake Uljans announced themselves to an unsuspecting beer world in the manner of a custard pie to the face – well before custard pie beers were a thing – and have never stopped evolving and innovating. Neither have they lost focus on keeping two words – "delicious" and "fun" – at the heart of everything they do.
After a few years of ever more outrageous releases, they opened their first venue in Abbotsford on the site of their first brewery (and schoolmates Josh and Karl's home for 14 months) before introducing a core range, growing fast, and taking over neighbouring buildings in Abbotsford as they became available.
Arguably just as outrageous as their early beers was what came in 2019: Moon Dog World, a vast venue in Preston that saw them convert a warehouse into a tropical paradise complete with waterfall, lagoon and Wall of Warnie.
Since then, they've embraced the arrival of hard seltzers in Australia, with Fizzer becoming one of the biggest brands in the country, and explored other avenues within the world of RTDs, while expanding their portfolio of megavenues. Indeed, the last of these was the main reason we sat down with Josh and Karl this week.
We joined them at Doglands, a 1200-capacity venue on the concourse of Marvel Stadium that was set to welcome people headed to Travis Scott's show later that night. It arrives hot on the heels of Moon Dog Wild West in the former Franco Cozzo building in Footscray, and just weeks (they hope) before they open in Frankston.
Our chat covers Moon Dog's evolution from craft brewer to multi-beverage producer and entertainment provider, the challenges and benefits of running vast venues, the importance of remaining true to yourself and your brand – whatever you end up doing, building and retaining great teams, and having fun along the way.
The conversation with them begins at 10:20.
Prior to that, we discuss stories from the week just gone, including the heartwarming tale of the changing of the guard at the Sunshine Coast's oldest brewery, where the owners' youngest daughter has taken up the reins, and the launch of a new Beer Cocktails series on The Crafty Pint.
You'll find links relevant to the show here:
A Curran Affair: Sunshine Coast's Oldest Brewery Passes To The Next Generation: https://craftypint.com/news/3602/a-curran-affair-sunshine-coasts-oldest-brewery-passes-to-the-next-generation
Beer Cocktails with Matt at Melville: https://craftypint.com/news/3604/beer-cocktails-with-matt-at-melville-simcoe-smash
Spangled Drongo Brewery: https://craftypint.com/brewery/865/spangled-drongo-brewery
Bearhug Pallet Wraps: https://craftypint.com/business/1428/bearhug-pallet-wraps
Be A Pint Of Origin Venue In 2025: https://craftypint.com/news/3591/be-a-pint-of-origin-host-venue-in-2025
The Gin Drinker's Toolkit Launch: https://craftypint.com/event/13493/gin-drinkers-toolkit-book-launch--gin-party--milton-common
Our breaking story on Moon Dog's plans for Docklands: https://craftypint.com/news/3219/marvel-ous-moon-dog-to-open-vast-docklands-brewpub
Building Moon Dog's World: https://craftypint.com/news/2198/building-moon-dogs-world
Sun Tap Decals: https://www.suntapdecals.com.au/
To find out more about supporting the show or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact [email protected].
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Transcript
Introduction to The Crafty Pint Podcast and Doglands
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. How are you, Will? you're Well, I'm very well. Excellent. And welcome back, everybody. um rare sortie away from the studio for the us this week. So when you get to the main interview later in in the show, um if you are one of the people that watch it on YouTube, ah you'll find us at Doglands, the latest mega venue for Moondog. It's very impressive as well. Very impressive down near Marvel Stadium, but we'll get to that
Sunshine Coast Brewery: Transition and Succession Planning
00:00:31
Speaker
later. um First, in terms of what's been happening over the last few days, what we've been covering this week, Will.
00:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, so a really good story about Sunshine Coast Brewery, the state's oldest independent brewery. They've just completed a handover to the next generation who's running it now. To put it into a bit of context, they've been on the Sunshine Coast since the late 90s. Yeah, but like a quarter of a century and more, they've been there. You know, the Sunshine Coast likes to pitch itself out of the capital of Australia and they do have more than 20 breweries in the region now.
00:01:04
Speaker
But the Sunshine Coast Brewery was there for well over a decade, pretty much a whole generation, and as the only brewery there. um Ownership changed within the first decade, I think, but that it's been in the ownership owners with the same family um since the mid-noughties. And it's it's pretty interesting. I think, you know, we're getting to the point now where a lot of breweries have been around a decade or more, maybe significantly more. And the question is, you know, what is the succession plan? yeah Um, and this is a really lovely story in that, um, the, the parents, the currents, they're sort of thinking, what do we do next? And they got three daughters and the youngest daughter, Bernadette has decided to come back into the business over the last couple of years. And now, and so I guess got, just came in to help out, got more and more involved and is now taking on the business. So, um, it's just, yeah it's.
00:01:52
Speaker
i'm not I'm sure that's not the answer for most breweries out there, but there are people thinking, you know do do we sell? And if no one's buying, do we try and bring through the next level of owners? I mean, that's what Stone and Wood said they were doing for a number of years, was to train up the next level of management to come through. And in the end, they sold, and that's very much changed the business.
00:02:10
Speaker
so you know, thiss it's it's a rarity and it's quite lovely to see. Yeah, yeah, I was really stoked to see it on the site, Mick, our writer Mick wrote it, so I didn't really know it was coming and I'm actually quite good friends with Libby Curran who is a Melbourne Food and Drinks writer, so it was great to see and I always hang out with her and Bernadette during the awards and things like that, so um it was cool. And you know, Bernie's also very open about the struggles of working with your family as well. a lot like So there's really good bits in that about how her and her dad don't always agree on the direction of the business, yeah yeah which is good to say. yeah it's nice it's it's a kind of It's a family story, but also I guess that the business story there. succession plan, so to speak. um And I guess, you know, maybe they'll be the next Koopas, you know, give it 140 more years time. And, you know, the Sunshine Coast. And I think to put sort of the Sunshine Coast, we're reading a bit more context as well. Yeah, Scotty Hargraves worked there in an earlier career, who's now the head brewer at Boulter, one of the co-founders there. Ian Watson, who was at Murray's, um Fortitude, now at Happy Valley. And also we did a big piece on
00:03:18
Speaker
ah when he launched the Petit Rocher. So there's there's been some, you know, pretty prominent names have come to that brewery as well. So it's great to see, have a um fresh lease on life. Yeah, there's two brewers as well stoked to see the story as well. they were They were straight in the comments. Yeah, scotty before he even read
Spangledrongo Brewery and Community Initiatives
00:03:34
Speaker
it. Yeah. We had another brewery listing to the site this week, which will become I guess more relevant in a couple of weeks time with our guest is one of the founders there, Spangledrongo. Just want to tell us a little bit about that brewery.
00:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, a lot of people in the industry would know James Perrin, who was sort of Mr Green at Stonywood. Hopefully he doesn't mind me calling him that. He's involved with the brewery. um They're very impact led. ah They really support their community, particularly during the floods a couple of years back where where they built a volunteer center.
00:04:06
Speaker
sort of before first responders got there. And um they also work, beer that they sell raises money for Habitat. So we've got an episode coming up in a couple of weeks where we'll chat to James about that, as well as sort of his view on the current state of
Eco-Friendly Beer Industry Innovations
00:04:20
Speaker
sustainability in craft beer. Yeah, and I think calling someone Mr. Green when they live in the Northern Rivers definitely could have other connotations. And I guess on a similar tip, we had a listing for Bear Hug palette wraps this week. if I don't you know about them, it's very business side of the beer industry. um But again, someone else who was working in the industry was seeing a lot of waste being created with the um plastic pallet wraps. ah We did a story on them almost two years ago now, but they're they're going great guns. um And I think that's a really interesting, and another one of these interesting spin off businesses that has come around someone going, how can I solve this problem in the industry? And it's, you know, saving, saving waste, but over time, potentially saving money for businesses as well.
00:05:03
Speaker
So check both of those out. umm I guess from a a personal housekeeping you know ah point of view, the venue registrations or applications for Point of Origin 2025 are closing on Friday, October the 25th, I think. um So if you're keen for your venue to be involved next year's festival, make sure you get your application in
Launch of Mick's New Gin Book
00:05:25
Speaker
by then. We'd like to get it all tied up by the middle of November. um Also, I think in internal news, Mick was book.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yes yes yes i am i will get to have a chat with make on the show pretty soon. Not be like that i'm so make use of me so queen's land right so he published his first book last year which was the beer drinkers talk at the gin drinkers talk it is out this month or next month i think it's this month.
00:05:53
Speaker
ah he's also working on He's also working on a whisky book as well. I think that's just been submitted. so That's probably next year. Yes. yeah You'll be able to get the trilogy. Yes. So he's he's got a launch party for the gin book next week at ah Milton Common, home of Common Ground Brewing in Brisbane. So if you'd like to go and say hello to Mick and drink some gin, that's the place to
Beer Cocktails Series Introduction
00:06:13
Speaker
be. um which I guess, you know, gin spirits, good segue in into a story that you've also put together this week, which is there's a bit kick starting a series that I think we first started talking about more than a year ago. But here we are. Yeah, beer cocktails, um you know, in these in these trying times, I think it's good. to You know, we've been talking about what we publish a bit and it's good to have some, I guess, light and news on the side. But also, you know, sometimes I wonder are we
00:06:42
Speaker
Are we still talking about beer in the way we used to? like Should we talk more about beer and food? We had that chat with Nathan yeah man a couple of months ago where he was like, it's it's not going far enough. And I kind of think in this sort of expansion era, we maybe sort of lost some of the more fun and simple parts of beer and also like how beer can be used in a way that um is really unique to it. So I caught up with Matt, who's the venue manager at Captain Melville. Melbourne's oldest, Melbourne CBD is one of its oldest licensed venues. Beautiful old pub if you haven't been there. And they've got a really good cocktail menu. Beer is used in like sort of 70% of the drinks is an ingredient. So yeah, I mean, it's it's a light story. It's a delicious drink. I had one last week at the pub. He made me one and then that weekend I went and made myself one of these. It's called the Simco Smash, which is a great name too. And which was the better?
00:07:40
Speaker
Well, his looked better and was better. It was more well executed. But I was actually on that first sip, I was surprised. I was like, I've actually sort of replicated this, but he did purposely choose a recipe that is easy to do at home. yeah and So the idea of the series is that we'll feature different people, um where it's from breweries or venues that do work with beer cocktails. Some of them are just going to be beer used as an ingredient. In the case of this one, you had to make a syrup. West Coast syrup. West Coast syrup. um And others use beer's ingredients you know as ingredients in the cocktails. So hopefully we'll make that a monthly thing. We often have grand ambitions to these series. Beer and food is always tough. Yeah. Always have dreams of doing recipes and pairing through things like that. Yes, but then this will be a case if it does work, do try this at home. um And in fact, one of our early guests on the series will be Chris Hysed Adams, who I guess is Moondog's fizzer and various other sort of flavor gurus who I first met many years ago when he was um the young cocktail s or bartender of the year at Black Pearl in Fitzroy.
00:08:46
Speaker
um He's come up with all their fizzled flavours and also designs a lot of beer cocktails for their special events and what have you. um Which I guess brings us back to
Moondog's Doglands Venue Discussion
00:08:54
Speaker
Moondog. um and I guess you know the reason we were chatting to them is because they have just opened Doglands in the Docklands. however um They've also got a venue they're hoping to open in Frankston before the end of the year so we discussed that we chatted about I guess their evolution as a business from you know the people that came onto the industry making just the wildest beers with the wildest names to become you know I guess an experience a bit of businesses about experiences and it's but also
00:09:20
Speaker
ah RTD, you know, just to have the businesses really evolve and changed over time. But still, hopefully, you know, I believe stayed essentially Moondog and fun. Yeah, yeah, I mean, they would have to be Australian crafty is like most hospitality led.
00:09:34
Speaker
very And on the scale they're at. Yeah, yeah. yeah um that They're making very big venues, very impressive venues. It's really capturing a lot of imaginations um because of of the grandiosity of what they're doing. So we talk about that as well as Wild Wild West. In Footscray? Yes, In Footscray. We mentioned Franco Cozzo a bit. For those in outside of Melbourne, he was a very legendary figure in the local community. if Look up his ads. they They're brilliant.
00:10:01
Speaker
but yeah So that's a great chat. So we'll um take a short break now and then we'll be back with Josh and Carl at Doglands. um And then we'll see you again in a week's time. And before you listen to the chat, make sure you like and subscribe to the podcast if you haven't done so already. che Cheers. Cheers.
00:10:25
Speaker
Josh, welcome to the podcast. It's wonderful to be here. And Carl, thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. but So ah we're here in Doglands. Would you like to explain what Doglands is and and what we're doing here?
00:10:39
Speaker
Doglands is our newest venue right on the, um I was going to say the foreshore. The foreshore of Marvel the foreshore of marvelous Stadium. precipi um The concourse of Marvel Stadium. I mean like Marvel Stadium is literally what about 20 meters from the front door? You can see it from the windows. Very very close. yeah um So yeah, it's is a venue that we have just opened this this week or in the last few days. So pretty exciting. And like I speak to anyone watching on YouTube, the 5% of people that do choose to ah take that route, they'll be able to see it's a pretty sizeable space. like So like 1200 capacity. Do you want to tell us about how it's going to operate once it's open to the public? So the the main venue that you see behind us here is going to be open for Marvel event days and we're hoping to get you know people to come in and have a
00:11:31
Speaker
have a beer before and after games and concerts and events and that kind of stuff. So we're really excited for that. We're also opening up for functions, big parties, Christmas parties, weddings, all that sort of stuff. um But generally, end unless there is something else on, um this space will be closed. yeah We do, however, have a ah venue upstairs, which is our jungle room, which will be open all the time.
00:11:55
Speaker
quite sort of um ah schmick, quite you know, sort of refined. It's like a sort of cocktail bar on a cruise ship in the 60s or something it's like that. It's some kind of ah refined jungle vibe. For listeners outside of Melbourne, Marvel's sort of Melbourne's second stadium after the MCG, so massive. So you're going to have a huge influx of people here during game days. How how do you sort of manage that when it's Not open a a lot of the time, like you just pull your staff across yeah so the venues or has it sort of worked? Yeah, so that there'll be i guess a a river mix of um approaches. i but
00:12:32
Speaker
um We've obviously got a really clear calendar of when there will be events. I don't i think there's 65 Marvel events across the the course of the year. So um that alongside I guess knowing um what the ah private functions are going to be, allows us I guess to be able to give a really kind of clear set of dates to our and to our staff so that they know um yeah and able to kind of put their hands up for shifts. And then there's going to be some pulling across the the different venues as well. So try and... um
00:13:08
Speaker
We're surprisingly close to our Wild West venue here. It's just a sort of five minutes down the road and it really helps with that they kind of pooling and stuff too. yeah And you've gone very to a tropical vibe again here reminiscent of the OG in Abbotsford and ah Moondog World. So is that sort of a return to the original sort of Moondog vibe after the, you know, the cowboy Wild West vibes of Footscray? Although, um yeah, like it's, we kind of wanted to channel where were i guess our other venues have been from an aesthetic standpoint, Wild West is a unique space um that we wanted to give its own ah kind of identity to. former owner um And so yeah this this is kind of channeling, um I guess, some of the things we've done in the past, but I guess also giving it a little bit of a
00:13:58
Speaker
and There's some some pretty significant differences. yeah yeah It's got a very um big focal point in the middle with the the big circular but carnival carousel bar. and Does it have a name? Is it the carousel bar? Because it really is is quite a thing. like you know I was saying to you before we started recording, there's no way anyone is going to come here and not A, take photos of the place and B, tell their friends about it. And mainly down to that, you know the circular bar in the middle.
00:14:26
Speaker
I don't think we have given it a name, but yeah, it's ah it's a big statement piece. I think it just, it looks pretty incredible. Yeah. It's the Doglands version of the lagoon, I guess. Yeah, it it's pretty well. Yeah. And we mentioned before the OG venue in Abbotsford. Since you opened Doglands for the first time on Saturday, it's been announced that your original home, which we'll talk more about later, um Is to be covered to function space I sort of winding that down after 10 years. So, um yeah, why's that come about? Yeah, I guess, you know, it's, it's been a, it has been the home of Moondog for 14 years. Carl and I lived in it, when we first opened it up, you know, it's a really important part of our history. But, you know, it's, it's
00:15:12
Speaker
um It's a pretty challenging environment out there in a lot of respects and um yeah but people's tastes have changed and our business has evolved and so we've we've made that kind of call to, it's certainly not closing it, but it's just moving into ah like guess a function and event.
00:15:32
Speaker
based space, which I think is probably the right thing for that that space these days. Half of it was already only a function space really. The way it is and how it works and the layout, it just really lends itself to really cool function that people want. In terms of that, so you're opening this place for functions and as you've said, like it's that's kinda been a pull at Abbotsford as well. Does that surprise you or is that a significant part of the business now, like bigger groups and yeah major events and things like that? and Where's that sort of The style of venue that we do is you know it's it's um pretty It's not a standard pub in in many respects. and and By giving things i guess a bit of a unique position, it's made it pretty appealing, I think, for a lot of people that are looking for that type of thing for their events. So yeah, we've, it's it's not know by great design that we've kind of become a, I guess, um i guess a winning space. a winning space but Really great provider of event spaces. Yeah. yeah yeah But yeah, that's it. It works for us. And it's, it's a nice piece of it. So
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you you said it. Our venues are very experiential, and anyone looking to post something different, I guess, for their functions, which is what everyone's looking for, you don't want the same humdrum sort of...
00:16:57
Speaker
corporate venues, then there's not much else out there. Yeah. yeah And when it does come to the and the final um hurrah for the public at OG on Saturday, will there be sort of mixed emotions? Or, you know, I guess, well, you got too much to focus on with this and with Frank to do much we'll discuss as well in terms of too much to look forward to, to look back too much.
00:17:18
Speaker
oh look I think is it like it's a really special place for us, but again we're not closing it. and It's not like that's we're handing back the keys. It's still going to be there and we're still going to you know throw parties there and do things. um It's just a bit of a bit of a change in the in the way that we'll be using it but yeah, I could say it's a really special place for us and I Look forward to going there and so they look forward to keep going there for other other purposes other reasons Is John Candy living on there or is he already been moved elsewhere? He's still there You're still there, a little early, front and center. Rolling over the joint.
Future Moondog Venues and Expansion Plans
00:17:55
Speaker
And looking ahead, so the next venue focused after this, I guess this is pretty much barely open, is Frankston. I know that's been in the pipeline for a while. What can you tell us about that at this stage?
00:18:07
Speaker
Well, we could say that we're working towards opening it by the end of this year. yeah um And, you know, it's a really large space. It's in fantastic locations, right? Kind of on the concourse of the Port Phillip Bay, the foreshore.
00:18:25
Speaker
hey Ocean views like this one. It does. It's got, you know, it's got an amazing kind of beer garden at the back. and It's got views of the the the bay. it's It's in an awesome spot. I think Frankston's really, um um evolving yeah rapidly and in terms of concept, we can't quite go into that yet, but it's. We're really excited and it's going to be, it's going to be good. Yeah. And is that then the last one for a while? Cause I know that there has been talk, you know, we've talked to us about maybe looking at for other similar large spaces as long as they're in an area that I guess isn't cannibalizing anything else you're doing. Is that still the plan? Yeah, I think we've got, um, lots of ideas and um there's nothing kind of locked in yet, but now we're constantly hunting for spaces that might be right for us. Because you're already looking at, weren't you looking at somewhere in Footscray and Frankston before COVID came? Yeah, we were. The world was open, you were already ready to go, yeah. yeah so this
00:19:27
Speaker
ah um It's certainly been a really busy 2024 and three venues in one year. It's a lot. But I guess that wasn't that wasn't by design. It wasn't the plan. It's just kind of the way that things played out. and A lot of it has to do with timing as well. Like a lot of the projects have come along and we thought we need to jump on this or we'll lose it. so And it sort of happened that way. Well, I suppose that was the case here was a bit different to the others in that this has been, I guess, a joint venture or partnership with home or the people behind it.
00:19:56
Speaker
building above so yeah I guess that would have been a bit different but everything else has been you're under your own steam so to speak. Yeah, so this this came about, this the um doglands came about, we were approached by the the developer of this site. and yeah This is sitting underneath a pretty incredible and development of 600 plus apartments.
00:20:17
Speaker
um yeah And that they came to us and had a bit of ah a vision for how they'd, I guess, like to to see this space become, you know, come to life. and Yeah.
00:20:27
Speaker
um I think yeah we we could really understand where they were coming from and what they wanted this to be and work together pretty pretty well to to so to bring it to life. yeah In terms of looking for locations, like is it something to do with certain suburbs? like Feel they're a bit underutilised in terms of spaces, big populations, or what are you hoping to find in certain areas? We like creating destination venues.
00:21:04
Speaker
um necessarily about trying to find yeah the the right space on and on the main drag. It's about creating something that is exciting enough that it'll draw people to an area that doesn't have as as much going on yet. In terms of geographic locations as well, it's about trying to get into places where we can grow our brand. So you want to focus on, especially in parts of Melbourne where you can say this is who we are and then look at getting our name out there. Are you looking outside Victoria? Because I know you were one of the independent brands that became pretty much national prior to I guess the change in
00:21:48
Speaker
the guess the wider market these days and more people pulling back in. I'm assuming, especially with Fizzly, you're still going to have you know reach beyond most of your peers in Victoria, but would you see the venue model as a way of trying to get back a bigger sort of audience interstate again, or have those days passed for now and it's a case of stick close to home? I guess our focus right now is on on Melbourne, yeah then probably the next step with that from there would be maybe into other parts of Victoria. and yeah it's It's a to's great.
00:22:23
Speaker
idea to to, I guess, work off a venue rollout to get a footprint across the country. But I guess there's um practical considerations to that. It becomes pretty complicated pretty quickly. And as as much as, you know, we we now have four and soon to be five venues, they're all kind of within a 45 minute drive. So it's pretty, um it's pretty manageable, I think.
00:22:50
Speaker
And you already spend all your time in the car. I spent a lot of time in the car. Yeah. Carl and I drive together a lot. Yeah, that's great. It's very lovely. We take turns. um And when did you sort of start becoming more hospitality-focused? Or was there a moment when you're like, this is the direction now? And do you still perceive yourselves as a brewery? Or do you kind of wake up to existential questions about who you are as a company? Or do you sort of really know it?
00:23:18
Speaker
um I guess we've we've been a hospitality business for 10 years yeah now, but we've also been a brewing business. We've become an RTE business as well. and um you it's right Right now our focus is on, um yeah from an expansion standpoint, it's it's it's in hospitality.
00:23:39
Speaker
is um yeah it's it's Um, ah a bit more achievable right now. You know, it's, it's very hard to continue to grow a wholesale business right now, but in saying that we still have a very large brewing and RTD business. yeah no it's And there is a synergy between them. So it works really well together.
00:24:01
Speaker
oh But yeah, I mean when we opened that was about 10 years ago. It was it was great and It was opening up who we are and our brands to the public and them seeing it walking in having a big smile and having a really great time and that we've kind of Been chasing that high ever since like It is a we've we've always talked about um OJ and I guess now world and Wild West and then here that these are the best
00:24:29
Speaker
I think it's the same ethos and values that sit alongside the the beers from I guess our core range and more experimental stuff and so into what we're doing with Pfizer and I guess other RTDs and it's about keeping things fun and exciting and different and and kind of cutting your own path. and yeah and yeah like it's it's It's very cool to be able to get people to come in and actually like have ah an immersive
00:25:01
Speaker
experience of it. Yeah I mean I guess now that you've got Doglands here I'm about to you know hopefully get a good workout tonight with the Travis travvis Scott crowd um and you know Wild West has been going gangbusters since that opened a few months ago now and obviously Moondog world um you know still kicking goals.
00:25:20
Speaker
despite the little pause for COVID there. Do you ever sort of look back and go? So, you know, I remember our first walkthrough at Moondole World when it was still storage for, you know, the egg boxes. And you had this vision for this thing that was unlike anything else had been done. Did you always believe it was going to work and that this was where it would lead you to? Or was it like we've come too far down the path with this idea? We're committed. Let's just cross our fingers and see what happens.
00:25:47
Speaker
um certainly very hopeful. I think with Preston we were legitimately shitting ourselves because we hadn't had anything tested that big ever before yeah and we were very pleasantly surprised at how how well that went. And did that sort of drive you I guess to Wild West and and look in other areas you knew there was an audience for it but So only so many people impressed and say yeah they put it elsewhere. That's right. like the Over time, kind of the i the model, the approach that we've taken has refined and changed a little bit. But um we've kind of stayed relatively true to what we did with Roondog World, you know look for i guess sites in areas that
00:26:33
Speaker
um yeah what yeah as i'll say not on the main drag and um
00:26:41
Speaker
able to accommodate large capacities and be able to build them out to be something really exciting and different. I think with the approach you've taken as well, what you know, being so far removed from anything else and being that sort of entertainment, almost like, you know, there's always like a bit of a fairground feel to this, or all the lights around the bar. i' You've really reached well beyond, even before Pfizer came along, you'd reached well beyond where most independent breweries were reaching in terms of an audience and I think bringing people in from further afield as well like it has like say it's become a destination venue and I'm assuming with Wild West there's going to be a fair bit of catchment from people who that's going to be the first big fun place they can go to without having to go all the way to the city um so it means that's something that you kind of figured might happen that you'd reach a new audience or was it just more a case of let's just yeah certainly the question was it was it was hope yeah
00:27:35
Speaker
primary reason why we we we moved into Preston was because it was big enough to accommodate I guess the brewery that we yeah we were planning to build. It was also close to home. um which is they motivat um and yeah now You just drive everywhere anyway. no yeah um
00:27:57
Speaker
But you know we didn't set out i guess to yeah with a specific plan to build a 725 person venue with a lagoon and all that stuff. um It was the site that kind of unearthed that opportunity. and um yeah with With the team that we we had, um and many of them are still kind of with us and helping to drive new venues. That concept, that that approach kind of evolved out of opportunity, really, um and just kind of opening the door to ideas that anyone might have to say, um how could we make
00:28:43
Speaker
site that we had in Breston, the most know exciting and different and unique kind of offering that feels entirely right for our brand.
Moondog's Inclusive and Consistent Brand Evolution
00:28:53
Speaker
um And I think we kind of pulled it off pretty well. From the beginning, like, we were always striving to have our brand to be really inclusive and not be that kind of, ah you know, our target market is craft beer drinkers. We were always saying, you know, everyone can be a fan of Moondog or we produce beers that we think, you know, people, all people will enjoy and we welcomed everybody and everybody and everything was ah sort of set up around that. And that's just, you know, how we set up Preston in the same way to have it very welcoming. And it seems to have resonated really well. ah Certainly. I think in around about 2010, there would be nothing more welcoming to a broad audience than perverse sexual amalgam or the Nordic saddle buffer. um And about what you say before, it sounds like there's been sort of lessons learned from Moondog world that you've then taken into Wild West and potentially in here, like, ah
00:29:38
Speaker
other sort of key things you've gone, oh, that makes more sense each time you open a new venue. Yeah, and we touched on one of the ones earlier on is that and event space and that function space and having ability to divide up the venue into, I guess, a ah modular experience where there's places where you can go and have a private area, there's a place where you can go and have a semi-private function and there's sort of whole spaces that you can have. I think that's allowed us to get those really cool functions and events in by just having that offering of different places. And that's something we weren't from Preston. Um, cause that, that was one of the things that was really attractive about that. Yeah. And somebody else touched upon there, which I was meaning to ask, you have kept a lot of.
00:30:19
Speaker
good people around a long time. There's some people who've been with you like would have started behind the bar a decade ago now and sort of seen your roles and a lot of people who I would have met around about the same it and time of foot met you guys for the first time being part of the business a long time. It must help. But why you know, how do you think it is given all the changes in the business you've been through and all the challenges facing the beer industry that you have retained so many like good key staff over the years because that's got to help you. Well, your mental health to you, but but the business evolve in the right direction.
00:30:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think we're a pretty good employer. I think we have a fun time. We do exciting stuff. um yeah um We've got the offspring coming to Wild West to do a ah thing in a couple of weeks' time. and That's quite cool and quite different. and yeah And I think people have really enjoyed being part of that journey and contributing to that journey. and um It makes a big difference when you're when you run a business in a way that you bring people on who you know are going to be better at the things where you lack and you rely on them and you empower them and you'll say this you're you you're representing with our brewers and with our hospitality and with management. We've always brought in people who will add something and work with us really well. and i think
00:31:44
Speaker
getting that opportunity to add their flavor to Moondog along the way is one of the things that makes people stick around. And you've done it so well that your role is now repairs of maintenance. Absolutely. I'm going to go around with a screwdriver and fix stuff. It's great. Excellent. Well, on that note, we'll take a quick break and then we'll come back and I guess go back to the start and you guys first met in the start of the Moondog story. Great. Beautiful. Cheers.
00:32:14
Speaker
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00:32:38
Speaker
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00:33:01
Speaker
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00:33:28
Speaker
Welcome back. I figured we'd go back to the start. Now, before Moondog became a thing, you guys first met at school. Was it year 11? Okay, so towards the end of school in Ivanhoe. You hit it off straight away. like how did How did this sort of get from being at school together to where we are now?
00:33:48
Speaker
i was a ah I was a new student coming to Ivanhoe at year 11 and I was sitting in the office ah waiting for someone to come around and show me and they sent Josh as the person to show me around and show me where my locker is and go to all the different areas of school. So yeah, that was that was it. And he's led you Australia. Completely. It was a very small school. But we had about 38 kids in our class at a year level.
00:34:13
Speaker
Yeah, just having really good bites. And then everyone knew everyone knew anyway. So yeah. how How come you were chosen as the school guide? Were you the the star pupil at the time? I have no idea. the course core the teachers are the wrong time It could have been punishment. punishment yeah um and And when did you start devising this idea of the brewery? And Josh, obviously your brother Jake was involved as well yeah in the early days and still is. Well, she started home brewing fairly early, didn't you? Yeah. It would have been like kind of early-ish 20s, mid-20s. Yeah. So 2008, 2007, I think. yeah thousand and seven perhaps So then Carl went to uni together and then
00:34:52
Speaker
we're housemates together and um I know exactly when the plan started kind of piecing together but would have been relatively early on in the home brewing that we thought that we really enjoyed. You bought a bourbon barrel while you were home brewers, didn't you? We did, yeah. So you weren't just making Cooper's kit. And we, I guess we just, we're really excited about making beers that were a bit different, what was kind of available. You know, you're going back to the late 2000s, it was a pretty different looking beer landscape. I guess,
00:35:27
Speaker
some of the big names were creatures and mountain goat. You know, Bridge Road was doing some great stuff. It was very kind of regionally focused and most breweries had a pale ale and a wheat pier and a lager and a porter or a stout or something like that. And that's kind of what the landscape was at that point with a couple of Um, seasonal releases every now and then. Um, but you know, it's a, it's a far cry from where it's evolved to over 15 years. And do you guys been to like the States and and see what's happening there? Or were you just aware that a little bit of travel in Europe and a little bit of travel in the States. Um, and there were, you know, there were some pretty delicious beers coming in from, um, being imported. You could get in a handful of shops in. Yeah. The purpose was still there. The purpose was there for a while. Um, but yeah, we, we thought, you know,
00:36:23
Speaker
It's delicious and it's the type of stuff that we wanted to do. So that's what we started focusing efforts on. And um kind of at some point in probably 2010 or 2009 or whenever it was, we
Moondog's Humble Beginnings
00:36:39
Speaker
started looking for factories and took a lease on our side in Abbotsford, Moondog OG.
00:36:46
Speaker
We were 26 and completely broke. We had no idea what we were doing. We had no skills that were in any way transferable. yeah to so Your degrees were in business weren't they? they weren't there nothing or engineeringt Nothing to do with business. oh what was it ah Mine was an IT degree. I did Bachelor of Arts, Politics and History. There you go, there's three of us. So, yeah, we were just young and excited and we pieced together a brewery out of old dairy equipment and lived in the factory.
00:37:23
Speaker
yeah How long did you live and sleep in there? Because didn't you have like what one of the offices was a bedroom or were there two office bedrooms? like what Was that like a little partition? well was It was very simple. I lived there for about 14 months and I reckon wow and the first six without any kind of plumbing. That was fun. It was brewery plumbing. It was brewery plumbing. Was there heating? There's certainly no heating, no. Although the HLT was was quite warming. It warmed the place up. It did.
00:37:52
Speaker
Yes, I was a very, you know, pretty exciting thing to do as young guys. Is that where the Moondogs, to explain to you who Moondogs inspiration name came from? So a musician, a busker in the States way back in the 60s and 70s that we heard about, I heard about when I was over in New York.
00:38:20
Speaker
um He was blind and he busked every day, dressing up as a Viking. He somehow made his own instruments and played experimental music.
00:38:32
Speaker
thought resonated a lot with, I guess, what we were planning and working towards doing. And the name just kind of stuck. Yeah, it's nice there. Rolls off the tongue. Well, I think the timing was pretty good as well. I've always felt the same with Crafty Partners as well. So getting involved towards the end of the noughties, you know, just as things were, so I guess, starting to change and pick up. So I still remember, I remember before you even put the first beers out, I was in the old Carwind Cellars, Guy James-Greenfields was there. I was having a conversation going,
00:39:03
Speaker
We need a brewery in Australia. It's a launch that just starts with a double IPA. And it's the same conversation. Every brewery has a pale ale, a wheat beer, blah, blah, blah. Someone needs to open and just start with a double IPA and just go from there. And he goes, oh, some guy came in earlier and he gave me your business card. I think you must have been into Carwin like earlier that day or whatever. I think it was a few days later, I was getting a bus down to, well the train now, we're down to the local tap house for an ale stars.
00:39:28
Speaker
and rang up and that was it. and It would have been, I reckon, 2009. You didn't have a beer out. You're probably still in a hunting phase, but it does feel like ever since that moment, there's been, yeah, just so evolving with the industry at the right time. And it would have been within not too long after that, that you had the first Good Beer Week and you guys did seven single keg beers at seven venues. It was almost like you sort of took over the first Good Beer Week, despite the fact you had no brewery and hadn't released any beers commercially. So it was a pretty you know rapid way to make a mark.
00:39:58
Speaker
It's fun. That was a really fun week. It was a great week. Because they were all massive beers. I think the smallest beer was about 7% wasn't it? Yeah. yeah and so oh's low brown owle that we did for mrs was That George Freeth. Yeah. It wasn't the most beautiful looking. It probably would look quite normal when he's done that. And did you have sort of an idea of what the beers were going to be once you started. I think the first commercial release was the Skunk Works, the Cognac barrel A double IPA, and not long after that, you know, so but it was, they were almost like, it was almost like the word salad coming. Let's put a few ideas together. Um, but did you, IPAs with lactose before anyone knew that was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we, there was no, there was no grand plan to it. It was very much.
00:40:52
Speaker
We just wanted to put out different beers all the time and make things that were fun and had fun names and gave people, I guess, something something new and exciting. Really delicious. just yeah Completely different to what was out there. What came first, the the names, the the label design, the beers? were There were multiple ways in which we came up with ideas. And oftentimes it was, yeah, flavors that came to names and then names that came to flavors.
00:41:22
Speaker
heavily influenced by drinking the previous. once you put yeah Living together probably helped as well in that warehouse. It was great fun. was like It was a really exciting time for craft fairs.
00:41:41
Speaker
Everything was new and you could kind of be anything and do anything. And and any any particular favorites from those early years, whether beers or names or labels that you have a real real attachment to. I would love to drink the Henry Ford's. I'd love to drink that now. i Very good. Super cool. different People don't know what the beer was. 8% American Brown or something. with yeah It was a three-style hybrid. I guess that was what the concept was. ah American IPA and English brown ale and a Belgian double.
00:42:17
Speaker
but okay so that fun All mashed together. yeah very Delicious. but um and I guess in terms of um you obviously you made the decision to go commercial in sort of the most sort of commercially suicidal way, something you might have said, but then sort of, I guess the next step was then opening the the venue. At what point did you kind of go, okay,
00:42:37
Speaker
This is great. like We're having a lot of fun. We've got a reputation. We're doing some pretty ah you know crazy stuff. People are coming to the bar. Actually, we need a core range. And we're going to try and build the brand. like Because you you said you went in without too much idea where you were heading. Was there sort of some point where you went, this is what we need to do to actually you know be viable? ah think I think we always took it really seriously. um so yeah We were trying to create something.
00:43:08
Speaker
And um opening the bar was amazing, but yeah at the time we were 29. So it's not like we're, again, there was no, yeah, great.
00:43:21
Speaker
experience or knowledge that three years or four years into the journey and um it just seemed like the right thing to do and so we do it and we do it in the way that we tend to do things which is very hands-on and with the resources that we had available and you know and then I guess over the course of a few years we um We started finding people wanting to put our beers on tap more and we saw, I guess, an opportunity to be able to yeah give people a more sessionable kind of know range of products and brought different people into the business. It's such a gradual yeah evolution. like
00:44:08
Speaker
we we yeah We introduced Corby is when we needed to, and when we were talking to bars to try and get some more permanent taps and then wanting to have more sort of yeah consistent consistency the products and everything just kind of happened as we needed it to happen. yeah If you think yeah back to how long ago it was that Moondog World opened.
00:44:31
Speaker
We'd already been going nine years when we opened. Very, very gradual staged. oh Yeah, and we took over spaces along Duke Street as they came up. As we needed to. We ran out of capacity and so we found the Brewhouse that we were able to expand with, which was the old Debordly Brewhouse. That was a tight space as well. It was a tight space. It was a surprisingly good fit though. We actually really found a way.
00:45:06
Speaker
But yeah how was it sort of managing, sort of going from your original kit then onto Deborty, which I have heard described by people who'd used it at its previous site as basically a giant bunch of pots and pans, effectively. and but not one breweries But trying to like really scale up pretty fast. Like you went from doing, you know, X hundred thousand meters to crossing a milli in pretty quickly once that was in place. And then going on to, I guess, your fully spec system you got now, like trying to maintain you know some sort of level, consistency across those, the the core beers, that was that managed or were you sort of almost running too fast at that stage to worry too much? I guess gradually got better and better at it. and we we We brought on great brewers yeah who were able to work with the the quality and implement quality programs really well and do a lot of yeah ti testing and quality control
00:45:55
Speaker
ah regimes which allowed us to do sort of A-B testing to see what the difference is. Our brewing team has been top-notch and that really helped us through those those transitions because that's that's really important. Because Kev is the head brewer now, was he involved at Duke Street or did he come on once you'd moved up to Preston? He came on at Preston when we were sort of working through the challenges. And is that when you really stepped away, Carl, as a brewer? Yes.
00:46:21
Speaker
um So after Keb came on for Preston, I worked with him for a while, but then moved more into the major projects, expansion stuff, venue building side of things. Loose screws. Yeah. doing it um and I guess, you know, continue on that side of things. um In the last few years,
00:46:42
Speaker
with i guess with kevin the helm you picked up a number of major trophies as well whether it's been trophies for individual beers like old mates or consistent golds for those that beer in lag or whatever and also some champion brewery titles i reckon they'd have turned a few heads from people in the industry who would have still had that sort of preconceived idea that moon dog are this brewery that puts out whatever's in their mind at this moment and so i actually know they're making like consistently excellent beers now so i mean that that would have been quite sort of something, I guess, you know, you guys focus on being the fun brewery that's sort of providing experiences, but there must have been some level of satisfaction going, oh, we're also making some of the best beers in the country. I'm unbelievably proud of that the beers that we we produce. ah Kevin, the entire brewery team,
00:47:34
Speaker
they are as good as any team in the business and still improving and still just refining things and getting better and better markets. I think we are delivering not just um good consistent beer but absolutely delicious beer and still innovating and still you know so making big strides forward and you know that comes through in the results of various competitions but it comes through in the the quality of what's on the shelf and that's the I guess
00:48:18
Speaker
the most important thing. We have beer that stands up yeah all across the country and maintains a really high degree of quality and yeah deliciousness. Yeah, and obviously fizz is a big part of what you do now, Seltzer, but that took a very long time, right? I remember talking to you, Josh, about it before it was out and and it seemed like Kevin the Brew Team really spent a long time in R and&D to to really get that to where he wanted it to be. Yeah, absolutely. It's a really unique product.
00:48:48
Speaker
um In terms of how it's made, you yet. The way that we we can't construct the fizzer products. and We've got a guy on our team, Chris Icedad Adams. He's one of the best cocktail guys. He's one of the best booze pellets going around and is incredibly creative. I guess we didn't approach producing that range of products from a, you know, let's just make a lime vodka soda type thing. We really wanted to make it the best, most refined, most delicious version of of that that type of drink that it possibly could be. And I think we kind of achieved that and I think that's... really what has kind of spurred on its success. um It is, they are delicious and drinks. It's really good. And I guess because you came to market, you know, fairly early in Celsa becoming a thing over here, but a lot of other people came on around but at the same time as well. But you above all other indie producers like
00:50:01
Speaker
dominated in that space more than anyone else did. And obviously, you know, the flavours were generally more, I guess, punchy and more out there and more fun. How much do you that reckon came down to the the name and the the branding as well? They're like, you know, I think it's genius. But do you think that really helped as well? as You know, sort of almost like puncturing the category at the same time as celebrating it? Yeah, well I think that our original concept, our original brief was to become the modern UDL.
00:50:31
Speaker
and the The brand that we've developed there and I could still, absolutely, like it's very million dog. It feels right for us.
00:50:43
Speaker
So I think a lot of pieces kind of came together right to make that work. And yeah it's it's it's still a great brand and it's still um delicious products and still going really well. Yeah. And when you talk about still innovating, do you feel you're still innovating in the space of beer as much but now that the market's changed and perhaps not demanding so many new releases the whole time? Or is it so yeah you're innovating more in the ICD space or in the the venue space, where do you see you the i guess your role as innovators these days? I think having having the venues sort of in under our sleeve has allowed us to have a bit little bit more flexible with NPD than otherwise we would, just because we can produce more batches and have them as venue exclusives across yeah multiple places. and We only need to
00:51:35
Speaker
Yeah, the volumes that we can produce are a bit higher than what we normally would be able to for those kind of things. But um yeah, innovation innovation is is tough and ah innovation in the RTD is kind of what we have been focusing on probably more over the last few years, but because it's just there's just so much.
00:51:53
Speaker
so much bread there that you can work with and so much fun to have as well with really unique flavours that aren't really in the market. yeah and like I guess the craft beer soldings is maybe,
00:52:07
Speaker
ah um we might have used up all the different ideas that are out there across the world of craft beer, you know, hybridising in a brown ale and ah an IPA in a Belgian beers.
00:52:20
Speaker
It's not new or not. yeah Groundbreaking in 2011. But you our team is still innovating and i guess in a technical sense with how we're how dry hopping and how we're managing yeast and how we're doing things that guess you improve shelf life and reduce TPO and all those types of things that it might not be as overt although you know obvious buted still or It all makes for a better industry at the end of the day when people get better. yeah yeah It is a much more mature industry now and you you have to do all those sort of things to keep up with it.
00:53:02
Speaker
yeah Well, I was going to say, also, when you came in back, it's more back into the business early last year. So I took up a little CEO role, came back in and I guess it was really fine going where this is what we are. We're a fun beverage and experience business, whatever it is. Do you think if you hadn't sort of come in and made the changes over the years with the addition of Fizzer,
00:53:24
Speaker
um and I guess ongoing with looking at RTD and more venues where the business might be if you hadn't actually diversified given the way the world has become. It's been a pretty pretty wild last 18-24 months for the craft beer. Pretty crazy what if that one. um Yeah like it is a I'm really proud of the decisions that the business has made over not just, you know, post COVID or um we are just, I guess the the the sum and the accumulation of the the choices that we've made along the way. And it's, um, I love the way that the business looks. I love the the areas that we're playing in and.
00:54:12
Speaker
We're doing some really cool stuff in venues. We're doing some really cool stuff in art today. We're doing some really cool stuff in and beer. and um yeah We've been an awesome team and having a fun time doing it. For the two words I've heard you use most over the years, describing either the liquid or the beers are delicious and fun. I want to say things are clearly still delicious. Are they still fun? But clearly you are still having fun despite the fact you know that there is all this you know crazy amount of stuff going on. Having a great time. And Will, so I'll cut you off there. You're about to bring down the curtain with our regular finisher.
00:54:47
Speaker
Yeah, so we like to wrap up with ah three questions, sort of looking at the past, present and the future in terms of if you go back in time and tell yourself something that you wish you had of known when you started the business, other than maybe get the plumbing sorted before you moved in. is Is there anything that comes to mind?
00:55:05
Speaker
um
00:55:09
Speaker
sort of maintained a ah ah better kind of rate of exercise. Is the um cumulative pounds of delicious craft beers takes its toll. I saw you out running once. runs Quite a regular. Jesus.
00:55:31
Speaker
but yeah jesus um I don't know. Maybe you can have the next one, which is, you know, if you was given one piece of advice to anyone getting into the world of what you do today, what would that be?
00:55:47
Speaker
um
00:55:50
Speaker
Again, this goes back to how we've done this. What is it? Recognize who you are and what you're trying to achieve and try to promote that in your brand. And if you're you're legitimate, if you're genuine and your brand is who you are, then people will resonate with it.
00:56:06
Speaker
I think that's the thing is, whatever you've done, whether it is here, Wild West, Fizzer, it's always been Moondog. Yeah, I remember going into Moondog world and it looks nothing like OG, but straight away it's like, this is Moondog. Like this makes sense to me that it's still, you can tell what that is. And it couldn't be any other brewery, at least not genuinely. That's it. No, that's the key. Yeah.
00:56:29
Speaker
and don't get what do Do we want them both to answer this one? One each? Hopefully the future of... Yeah, what's what's your hope for the future of beer? Well, you know, beer or fun beverages, I guess, you know.
00:56:41
Speaker
um I've got no doubt that the craft, the space, it'll turn around and it'll... I think people still love drinking delicious craft beers and yeah there's some obvious...
00:56:57
Speaker
broader challenges that the world is facing. But um I'm really looking forward to yeah coming through this cycle and seeing people get really excited about craft beer again. And maybe it'll have a bit of a a different kind of focus or maybe maybe it'll go back to I guess what we're starting to see a little bit more of now, which is traditional styles and
00:57:26
Speaker
But yeah, it's I'm very, very confident that we will see craft beer yeah go from strength to strength again. Yes. And mean my my hope would be like, this beer is a cycle, I think. that we There was a huge consolidation of small breweries in the 80s, and then that petered but peter it down, and then it exploded again, and now it seems to be sort of petering down, and I think it will It will come out again where people will want to try it new things and experience new places and, you know, focus on on what's local and what's fun. And I think that's, that's what I think. Well, it's interesting. I think about a decade ago, I reckon we reached the point where people could not along the dismiss craft beer as a fad. Like it there was too much of it around.
00:58:16
Speaker
And now that we've got a 1200 capacity venue, 20 metres from Marvel Stadium, plus in Andrews Beach Brewery with a you know brew pub next to Rod Laver and the MCG, it's going to be even more impossible for ordinary people who've never had craft beer before not not to notice it. So I think, you know, everything's it might be moving slower or in a different, you know, maybe sideways at the minute, but it's certainly still feels like it's still edging ever forward. And they are now higher.
00:58:45
Speaker
That's right. Fantastic, guys. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thanks for coming down. Next time when you're open. It was a lot of fun. Thanks a lot. Cheers. Cheers.
00:59:03
Speaker
The Crafty Client Podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty Client website, craftyclient.com and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
00:59:18
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events, or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries, or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes. And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer