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Social Media, Branding, Diversity & Non Beer
500 Plays2 months ago
When choosing guests for The Crafty Pint Podcast, we favour people we know have good stories to tell (which, in fairness, doesn't discount many people working in beer) and a particular area of knowledge, expertise or insight to share with listeners and viewers.
In the case of Amanda Baker – Bakes to most – they were high on our priority list but leapt to the top when Will spotted something odd going on with the Instagram account Lost Palms, the Gold Coast brewery at which they work. Everything the brewery had posted in seven years disappeared overnight to be replaced by a series of stark, mysterious posts.
Attention captured, Will suggested we get Bakes on straight away, which technically meant they were coming on for a discussion around social media, marketing and branding. But, as anyone who knows Bakes knows, we were never going to pin them down to something as straightforward as that.
So, settle in for a chat that, yes, looks at the new approach Lost Palms are taking and what sparked the change, but also examines branding more widely – not least as they're involved in the launch of new energy drink SAYG.
A year on from Bakes' appearance in one of our most widely read and discussed articles of 2023, Chronically Crafty, which explored working in beer with a chronic medical condition, we reflect on the impact that had and how to keep those discussions going.
Meanwhile, Bakes' recent trip to North America, where they stayed with meme legend, Wort Wrangler, brewed collabs with Seek Beer Co and Dominion City, forced themselves onto the Jester King workforce, and met up with Ren Navarro, the founder of Beer Diversity (now B.Diversity), sparks a conversation about community and diversity in beer.
Essentially, it's a few episodes rolled into one, with a preamble in which we discuss the phenomenal number of Oktoberfests in Australia this year, New South Wales' first off-grid brewery, Mick Wüst's deep dive into life in a sensory lab, and opening registrations for Pint of Origin 2025.
Links relevant to or referenced in the show:
Going Green: Frogs Hollow's Off-Grid Brewery: https://craftypint.com/news/3590/going-green-frogs-hollows-off-grid-brewery
A Yeast For The Senses: Life In A Sensory Lab: https://craftypint.com/news/3573/a-yeast-for-the-senses-life-inside-a-sensory-lab
Be Part Of Pint Of Origin 2025: https://craftypint.com/news/3591/be-a-pint-of-origin-host-venue-in-2025
Save 10% On Registrations For WSET's Beer Courses: https://tinyurl.com/j4eyfrty
Lost Palms' Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lostpalmsbrewingco/
SAYG: https://www.sayg.com.au/
Chronically Crafty: https://craftypint.com/news/3252/chronically-crafty-managing-health-in-the-beer-industry
Wort Wrangler: https://www.instagram.com/wortwrangler/
Ren Navarro: https://bdiversitygroup.com/about-ren
To find out more about supporting the show or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact [email protected].
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Transcript
Oktoberfest in Australia: Expansion and Unique Twists
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello, welcome back to the Crafty Paint podcast. I'm James. And I'm Will. Episode 12, Will, the crafty dozen ticked off already. Fantastic. And it's almost time to pray for the end of the year. I'm hoping anyway. Oh yeah, we've got a fair bit to record before the end of the year, but we're getting there. Now I'm back from my travels, obviously, but you're hitting the road again this week. What are you up to?
00:00:27
Speaker
Yeah, after many years of wanting to go, I'm going up to Bridge Roads, Oktoberfest in Beechworth, one of the original Australian celebrations of Oktoberfest, obviously with their story and Ben and Marie meeting in Vienna, or maybe not in Vienna, in Austria anyway. It holds a special place to them, I know, so I'm keen to check that out. I'm pretty sure that then later Hosen and Derndle will be the genuine article, rather than something from a local fancy dress store. I'm sure it's from early days as well. I saw some Instagram pictures and it's looking a little bit faded. Excellent. And some of the best pretzels you'll get your hands on up there. Of course. Yeah. What's your take on Oktoberfest these days? Obviously, I mean, we've just had this episode with Nathan, which is great.
00:01:14
Speaker
There is so many happening at the moment, and they used to happen in Australia just during October. Now they run from like mid-September. Yeah, October Fest is done in Munich, the original advising is done. um
Breweries and Oktoberfest: Crowd Pulling and Authenticity
00:01:30
Speaker
So Australia's managed to sort of cram this hundreds of events potentially easily yeah yeah so into six weeks or something like that. It's quite a time, I don't know if we spend as much time talking about it,
00:01:44
Speaker
as we should, because it's a beer-centric event. It feels very brewery-led to me, like people wanting to put ah events on, yeah whether or not that's because they really need people through the door right now. but I don't know. We've definitely discussed it and thought about it. There are they do appear to be more now than we've seen ever in the time we've been running the Crafty pint, and they are at Most breweries, and you were saying, you know, one of your local bars in... Oh, I'm watching past pubs and they've got posters up for their events. I don't know if anyone's going to them or how authentic they are or anything like that. Well, it's interesting you mentioned that. I saw someone put something on Twitter, X, whatever it's called, the other day, just saying, hey, Australian brewers, if you're going to put an Oktoberfest on, make sure you've got some Oktoberfest beers on. Don't just say it's an Oktoberfest and have your standard beers on. So I guess that does...
Traditional Beer Styles and Sustainable Practices
00:02:38
Speaker
suggest that people are looking for something themed and that it is very beer centric. I mean, I've wondered whether it it comes at a good time for Australian brewers and venues. Like winter is typically the worst time for beer sales in Australia anyway.
00:02:53
Speaker
but then you lead into footy final series for people that care about that stuff, you know, whether it's AFL or whether it's and NRL, that all finishes late September, early October. yeah And you've got a little bit of time before the big summer, sort of, you know, the warmer that really hits around the country when people go out your typical beer drinking season. So is this, you know, another way of getting people in? You've also got a potentially quiet winter to lager your beer.
00:03:16
Speaker
in is like like forehead Yeah, you you might have some tank capacity. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think so but it maybe it sort of fills that gap and sort of brings forward the start of, you know, beer drinking season earlier, or it's a sort of bridging thing. But it's been embraced. I mean, by breweries, definitely, like everyone wants a slice of the action. But I think also you could look at the, you know, the lager and ASOS that we first wrote about sort of five or six years ago, which has definitely become full in sort of full bloom now.
00:03:45
Speaker
Um, even that's probably a more appropriate term for a wild owl. Um, and also just that sort of return to, you know, more approachable or traditional styles, all these things that we feed into. Yeah, to Lucas side pause as well. I think like presentation around lager, like there's probably a bit of a.
00:04:00
Speaker
growing storm that's been happening for a number of years. You need to stop because otherwise I'll need room in your car to come and join you in Beechworth. But I know it definitely is something, um you know, and we've we've written about what October 1st really means and what it means to local brewers out and the history of it in the past. And I think now, you know, maybe it's worth a revisit next year as to why it has become such a you know big thing in Australia, assuming, like you said, that people are actually going out to these events. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of like the idea of Australians putting their own spin on it as well. I think that's that's part of what makes it fun. You can sort of.
00:04:35
Speaker
You know, you you could play with the whole gamut of sort of German style beers. You you probably don't have to just do a match and you can you can really step even though that's not what they would do in Bavaria. Like I kind of like that as an opportunity for Australian. broads What I also like is the marketing around them seems to move well away from, you know, the very sort of more, should we say, sexist driven. mo Yeah. Yeah. and I've seen very little of that this year, which fortunately that seems to have gone. Yes. Yeah. yeah um In terms of what we've been up to over the last week, um I mentioned in the intro last week that we had another story on the back of the Jervis Bay. Jervis
Yeast Innovation and Event Registrations
00:05:13
Speaker
Bay. Jervis Bay, sorry, B Corp status um about another New South Wales brewery. So we ran that um earlier in the week about Frog's Hollow and Brewing Co and started by um these two guys in the south and the south of the state. um They realized when they wanted to start a brewery that
00:05:30
Speaker
and we're going to really struggle to get services out there. So it's New South Wales first off-grid brewery. Benny called in to see them a while ago and and to see how they got to to where they are now, where they're planning to go. So that's ah that's a really, I guess, interesting story and it's you know ah another example of the good things that Brewers are trying to do it, you know, they're trying to get their water down, you know, they're running the whole thing off battery, a bit of diesel at the minute, it hoping to open some sort of tasting room visitation sort of um center and every everything they're doing within the business looking at what alternative products they might be for cleaning or whatever to actually run a business that is as harmless and harm-free to the planet as it can be. Yeah, I think when it's your property and your land and you're connected with the land in a sort of sense like that and a farming sense as well,
00:06:17
Speaker
it really drives you. I mean, that's that's part of the story of Rocky Ridge. Like um when you sort of see the impact of what you can have on the environment in a place where your family might live, it really changes your outlook on these things. And yeah, when you see the photos of where they live and sort of tucked in this hollow between all these hills, you can see why you'd want to, well, A, live there and B, b look after it.
00:06:39
Speaker
and i guess from but that that's you know absolutely tiny brewery that's the ah other side of things we had derrick from bluestone yeast on a few weeks ago um another store we run this week i guess this is the obviously other side of the east business so fomentus france base one of the largest producers of um yeast on the planet um mick busta one of our rides up in brisbane and spent some time chatting to one of their sensory specialists it's taken a real deep dive into the levels that they go to in, I guess, exploring potential new use products, um how they pull together panels, like really fascinating deep dive into, you know, the lengths we were going to try and bring a new product to the market that, you know, the brewers will be able to use. Yeah, and um in some sort of in-house news, we've also just opened registrations for Pine of Origin 2025.
Interview with Amanda Baker: Marketing Strategies at Lost Palms
00:07:31
Speaker
I know, yes, deep breath.
00:07:33
Speaker
relax Yes, it's it's still seven months away until it kicks off, but it's it's nice to get these these things and tied up in terms of the the host venues for next year. um It's always been a big event for us, um and this year was the the biggest to date. So if you are a venue owner, um anywhere and with a venue open to the public around Melbourne and you'd like to be part of it, you can jump online.
00:07:58
Speaker
at CraftyPint.com, look for the um the registration article for Pint of Origin 2025, which will be in May next year, um and get your applications in. We'd love to have it all tied up um end of this month, sort of early November in terms of who's going to be doing what. um Yeah, so that's, it's a long way away, but this this is when we have to start planning. Well, we lose a lot of lose a lot of time over Christmas and summer. It gets pretty hard to talk to venues. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, and and and yeah i'm I'm sure there'll be a bit of but change in terms of, ah we've already had approaches from some venues. Yeah, with brand new ideas as well. yeah Yeah, so should be pretty exciting. um And as for this week, Will, our guest for the main interview coming up. Yeah, so very excited to have Bakes on the podcast, also known as Amanda Baker. They um they run all things marketing and graphic designs for Lost Palms on the Gold Coast.
00:08:53
Speaker
ah that was someone we talked about very early on. I think like like genuinely in the sort of, you know, when we were working out who to get on quickly. um So it's great to finally have banks on. One of the reasons was because they've taken that as a brewery, they've taken quite a fun or unique approach with their Instagram and um those separate from Lost Palms. They've also been involved in the launch of an energy drink called Sage, as you find out in the chat. um So, you know, this is covers a lot of areas, I think, whether it's social media, the fact so many breweries are looking for alternative products as well, um which is really cool. And Bakes also featured in a big article you that you wrote last year, Chronically Crafty, yeah we featuring people that yeah sell Bakes and Ben living and working in the beer industry with a chronic medical condition. um So we sort of discussed the reaction, I guess. this floor Yeah, and also where we would like it to go and things like that as well. It's obviously
00:09:51
Speaker
and something that's very important to me personally and very important to banks as well and they also spoke about their recent trip to America where they they kind of worked with some of the who's who ah well well they got to meet some very fun people including work Wrangler which is an Instagram meme account I've followed for a long time and absolutely love and I know there's there'll be Australian listeners who love that account, but then they also spent some time after just cold emailing with Jester King and got to meet up with Ren Navarro. We just spent time listening, just worked with Jester King for a few days because they were like, we want to help out. All right, all right. Yeah, come on. And yeah, also Ren Navarro who runs out, what was Bea Diversity, goes under Bea Diversity now, I believe, one of the sort of leading voices in North America and
00:10:41
Speaker
your diversity in beer and and improving that and that kind of thing. So essentially it's like a sort of chat with one person at a brewery on the Gold Coast that actually covers five really sort of yeah diverse and interesting topics. um So I guess without further ado. Yeah, I hope you enjoy it. Yeah, let's get into it. che Cheers. Cheers.
00:11:04
Speaker
Thanks. Welcome to the Crafty Pine Podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for joining us. ah Before we get stuck into a few sort of recent bits of news and stuff, do you want to tell us about your role at Lost Palms and maybe what Lost Palms is for listeners who don't know the brewery? Yes. So yeah, Lost Palms was situated on the Gold Coast in Miami, been around for seven-ish years.
00:11:32
Speaker
And I came on as marketing coordinator, then moved into graphic design, little bit of sales, little bit of venue, kind of anything really that any spaces that need filling, I can kind of just. ah when um When did you slot into the Lost Palms picture? How how long into the seven years before you arrived? So it's coming up to three years. I think it's this month or next month.
00:12:02
Speaker
It's towards the end of the year and i um when I finished up with MODIS, I just went bush for a couple of months and then I was exploring where I was going to go next and then this opportunity came up and I never lived on the Gold Coast before. Yeah, the yeah and in terms of the team but that sort of behind Lost Palms, tell us a little bit about that as well. Yeah, so there's ah we've had a lot of changes in the in like in the past probably three or four years. ah So the teams gotten smaller, everyone's roles have kind of evolved, which is really good because I think in a lot of circumstances, other people may not have been able to adapt as easily. And then, you know, jobs would have been slashed and things like that. So um at the moment, it's just the three of us. So it's Jared, the owner, myself, and then Ryan, the brewer, and then we kind of just fit in wherever needs
00:13:00
Speaker
But um yeah it's good that way. It's nice to have a small team. Everyone kind of communicates really well and and you I think get a bigger picture of what's going on rather than just like sticking into your lane.
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah, cool. And um speaking of what's going on, one of the reasons we wanted to have you on at the moment is I saw your Instagram a couple of weeks ago, and it sort of has taken a pretty different change. And it kind of happened at a time when, for those who don't know, quite a number of beer Instagrams disappeared quite suddenly. Most of them are back now. It was a bit of a algorithm hit on some age-gating. So I actually wondered if lost palms have been hacked or something. or mo know Maybe they were responsible for everyone else being booted off. But um yeah, do you want to tell us about what what you've done there?
Launching SAGE: Branding and Market Differentiation
00:13:50
Speaker
And maybe listeners can go have a quick look now so they sort of understand what we're talking about.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think there were were quite a lot of people kind of reaching out to me going, is everything okay? Like, ah yeah like, quitting? Are you shutting? Are you okay? Like, mentally? Are you okay? Because it's like, ah pretty strange. um But yeah, we, we kind of had a look at ourselves internally, and kind of the industry externally, and we're like, there's just so much noise in the world, like everyone is trying to scream louder than everyone else, because everyone's struggling with something. um The way the not even just our industry, I think, you know, a lot of people at the moment, you know, we we don't have the resources that we did three years ago. So we decided, how are we going to take a different take on this? Like,
00:14:45
Speaker
wipe the Instagram, archive everything and just kind of build up a bit of mystery. And, you know, we did kind of extend it over a couple of weeks because you don't want to drown people out with post, post, story, story, real. um But we kind of just wanted to to strip it back and just be like, we know what it's like out there. We don't want to add to that noise. We're just going to give you the information that we have the quickest, easiest route that we know. And and that's kind of been it. But it's um yeah, it's worked so far. And I think, too, there's some people out there that are like, where is Los Palms? And I mean, we're very central in in Miami. So it's kind of building a bit of mystery around that, too. It's like, where the f are they? Oh, actually, they're right there.
00:15:36
Speaker
I guess it would have it stood out to an extent for people who would did know Lost Pines before in that your, you know, the can design, the branding has always been loud and, you know you know, especially since you came in there as well and started bringing your own designs, very, you know, just a lot to take in. And so suddenly seeing this, you know, just sways of just black orange just like very distinct would would certainly have caught people's eyes and was that part of the thinking as well like not just cut out the noise but actually just almost cut out our own noise and just go here it is. Yeah strip it back and I think to
00:16:13
Speaker
ah When you have a color palette that's kind of as distinct as ours, like the pinks, the creams, the pastels, you know, it does get lost. um So we we have always had kind of that stark orange in our repertoire for the brand, but we just decided to kind of rotate the colors, bring that to the forefront.
00:16:39
Speaker
But we're not painting the venue. We're not changing anything here. We just wanted to take a really different approach with how we speak to our customers, I guess, the information that we give them. you know it's We do you know take some beautiful photos here, but that doesn't always get the message across that we need need to give them.
00:17:03
Speaker
And when you were talking about noise, were you talking specifically ah around so the, you know, in beer and social media and beer or just generally on social media, you know, in in the sort of the wider the wider space?
00:17:16
Speaker
It's mainly just generally, like every time you open up Instagram, there's ads targeting certain things. People are you know posting quite regularly. they just Everyone's looking to get attention because they want to survive, which is, you know, everyone does want to survive. But there is a point where it gets overwhelming. And if it's overwhelming us, we can imagine it's overwhelming other people. So rather than tying together a story of information that we wanna share. It's just, we do $10 cheeseburgers on a Thursday. This is it, it's fucked up. ah And Bakes is, um it's early days yet, but other than, I guess people, industry colleagues thinking you've been hacked maybe. Or has or having some sort of breakdown. Yeah, has there been much feedback from customers or people? Like how's it sort of been me received?
00:18:13
Speaker
A lot of people have like really enjoyed it. I think it's, it maybe has given them something to think about that they necessarily didn't realize was going on. Like when we were talking about noise, people were like, well, what do you mean? And Like these are the people in my life who'd reached out to me. I'm like, well, every time you open it up, there's specials posts. It's just, it's all very noisy and can get very muddy. Um, and then with our approach, it's just a flash. This is the information they're like, Oh, actually, yeah, you mentioned it now. good Everyone's trying to yell over everyone else. Um, but we did have a few people that were quite concerned because we had like collaborative posts up.
00:19:00
Speaker
And then we've just archived them all. And they're like, are you mad at me? We're still very proud, but it wouldn't have worked if we didn't archive. It just kind of built a bit of mystery. And then I think it was very clear what our view was, I think, straight from the bat. It's just like, we're here. We're clear. Here's the information you need.
Creative Freedom and Brand Strategy Evaluation
00:19:31
Speaker
We're still the other thing too, but we just want to connect, you know, maybe one on one more so than trying to throw a big net out and catch. you know, a few different people, if that makes sense. yeah And is it reflective of a wide, a change across the whole business? i Like, it are you going to change, you know, the designs on the cans that I mentioned before? All black cans with orange and nothing else. you know No graphic design, in other words. um yeah yeah Is it being rolled out across the wider business or was it more about about the way you're going to put your messaging out there?
00:20:07
Speaker
It's, I think our designs will still say that stay the same. It's something that we've kind of built up a bit of like knowing about, like people can see our cans out in the world and like pick them out. It's pretty easy to distinguish which one which ones are ours. So I think at this stage, it's just across social media marketing. It's, um I guess where people can't choose
00:20:36
Speaker
Like who's in front of them, really? Like when they go into a bottle shop, you know, they can be like, oh, okay, over here or over here where, you know, you open social media and it's pretty much instant. So at this stage, it's just through, yeah, social media. And then, you know, in the venue with our posters and things, we'll probably dial those a bit back a little bit.
00:20:59
Speaker
but What was the conversation like when you approached and Jared and said, I want to wipe our entire presence on social media and everything we've done, ah we've built over the last seven years.
00:21:10
Speaker
I just want to burn it to the ground. Yeah, yeah exactly. um It was actually a, it was our venue manager's idea. And then it kind of just started like an ember. And then the more we talked about it and what it would look like. And then I put together kind of like a ah template of the ideas for the next, I guess, two months of what I wanted to post, what it would look like, the story it would kind of build. It was, yeah, a pretty much a yes from the get go. I think to just being able to try something different when not one of those big boys that we have to check with 14 different staff members and then get approval. And, you know, we do have the ability to try things quite quickly when we want to. And I think for us, it was about just striking while we had the ability to
00:22:06
Speaker
Bakes like re-approaching it any part of your business like social media or design or anything like that. Is that something you try to do at certain amounts of times or do you think it's important to assess the market and ah reevaluate you your position often or is it just sort of in this moment you really feel like change needs to happen? I think it goes both ways. I think it's assessing, you know,
00:22:31
Speaker
the environmental factors like what's happening in the market. And I do think it's important to continue to grow and learn and because the the information that's out there towards you know people in branding, marketing, there's new ways to get people's attention like that are popping up daily.
00:22:54
Speaker
if there's new apps and new this and that. So I think it is important to to at least be open to to what's happening in the world. But I do think it's also very important not to get into the habit of doing it too often. So I think there's a very fine line between, you know, staying relevant and fresh and then also just taking whatever branding you do have and then mashing it to the point where it's unrecognizable.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah, we we certainly don't like that because we have to redo breweries pages every time they rebra rebrand as well.
Energy Drink Market Positioning and Branding Lessons
00:23:31
Speaker
So i just slow down. very Got your page updated from the last one 18 months ago. and Speaking of marketing and branding drinks, there's the other reason we wanted to have you on now is because there's a new drink that you've been involved with. And I don't even know how to say its name or pronounce it. Is it is it segue SAGE?
00:23:53
Speaker
Sage, yeah. Sage, say as you go. Show all you got. Show all you got. What you've got. Yeah. So what what is it?
00:24:04
Speaker
Uh, it is, well, actually here's one I prepared earlier. ah very excellent It is a, uh, like a pre-workout energy drink. Um, it is a separate brand to Los Palms. So Los Palms is over here. Sage is over here. It's got a few.
00:24:25
Speaker
kind of people that are involved in both, but it does have, you know, separate owners and, and branding. It's a different, um, little kettle of fish over there, but it is something that's like really exciting to be involved in. Um, not just from like a branding point of view, but being involved in creating a product and a brand from scratch has just open my mind um and the work that goes into it and the, um you know, identifying your target audiences and what they like, what they don't like. And just building this profile of people from scratch has just been insane, but like just such an amazing experience. And is it the first first time you've worked on a new product from the ground up like this? Yeah. um Well,
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah, i i I think so. um Just because it's something that, you know, i I don't have any background in. I mean, I've raging ADHD, so I'm like popping energy drinks left, right and centre. But yeah, to to be involved in a different industry at that level has just been, yeah, a real learning curve.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, is it, were you looking around at what's on the market? Because I imagine in that space, like workout drinks, there's probably a couple of very large um companies and names and probably not that much else in the smallest. So all say did you feel like it was sort of, you could really follow your own path or were there sort of, I don't know, branding expectations in in this space in the same way craft beer kind of sometimes needs to look a certain way?
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, we we did when we were doing some market research, we were seeing you know the other big players that were on the market um and also you know who's out there, where are they selling, who are they targeting to. And we would never really be in a position to compete with those people.
00:26:35
Speaker
So when we created Sage, it wasn't about, you know, competing with those big dogs. It was about finding gaps in their branding, marketing, target audiences for people who maybe want something that's more accessible, more approachable. When you open the socials, you know, it's not just these giant, you know, gym junkies, like pushing up kilos. You know, it's, it's everyday people.
00:27:05
Speaker
using a product to achieve what they need to achieve. So it's finding a gap in the market, I
Bakes' Journey in Craft Beer and Design Influence
00:27:13
Speaker
guess, for people who want something, you know, a little bit different or people who, I guess, there's also the element of maybe they don't want people to know they're drinking an energy drink. So when you pick up a can of sage, it doesn't look like everyone else's. It's not like neon colours and you know, raised, it doesn't look really busy. It's very kind of laid back. um The color palette is like early 90s sitcom-ish, if I had to put a label on it. it's yeah it's just It's not looking to take away from those big dogs. You'll never compete with those. It's just finding your niche market for people who are looking for something a little bit different.
00:28:03
Speaker
And have you found that um this the principles that you've taken to your time at MODIS or at Lost Palms have the same principles work when working out how to you yeah how SAGE should look or what the target was going to be? where Have you sort of had to take a different approach because it is a different product? We have had to take a different approach, I think because um the people involved in SAGE haven't had the experience to do something like this in in this kind of industry. So it was taking the time to learn more about that environment, the industry, that sort of thing. But there is also some things that we can bring over from you know being a beverage company and the people that we've been involved in or involved with. So it's it's kind of yeah being married up between the two.
00:29:01
Speaker
but Just the landscape, I think, for the energy drink market is just completely different. There's still the like the same like laws and things that you have to to make sure that you're putting everything on there correctly. But I think we have a little bit more room to move when it comes to at least marketing and things. There's so much that you can't show when you're a brewery and you're marketing to like,
00:29:32
Speaker
over 18 plus market but with energy drinks you can there's a bit more room to move and is it is it sort of it in a way um filling a ah gap gap or an opportunity for lost palms in the same way that other breweries have moved into seltzer or hot waters or ah rtds or what have you is it so sort of looking at other opportunities see you know for what you already do in a different space um and I think that's a tough one to answer because it it is a completely different brand. so It is an opportunity for Lost Palms. like We are manufacturing Sage from Lost Palms' point of view, but because we do have a little bit of overlap on who does what, it it is giving us the opportunity to
00:30:24
Speaker
kind of make connections that we haven't made before. And especially during this time where like we're not putting out as much beer as we used to, we are you know exploring different avenues while we've got the opportunity. So yeah, I think it does does help in that way. And it's just kind of, what does that look like for lost palms? I don't know that we've decided yet.
00:30:50
Speaker
Yeah. And um before we sort of wrap up the first ah and then come back for a bit more of a chat about your story and your time and in beer and what have you, um I guess are there sort of key or the main lessons, the key things you've learned about marketing and branding within beer in the time that you've been involved in the industry and and maybe even, I guess, informed a little bit by, you know, what you've been doing more recently with Sage.
00:31:14
Speaker
I think for me that something that I've learned, I think especially maybe in the last year or two is just looking and finding inspiration in places that you don't necessarily think it would be. It's just being open to looking at the world of advertising or marketing as a whole. And just because you're in this little niche industry, which is beer,
00:31:41
Speaker
it doesn't mean that you can't take these concepts and kind of create them differently. It's it's all about you know kind of taking those blinders off. And you know just because the industry has been around for so long and this is just what people do in this industry, in this space, you've got room to kind of change that narrative for yourself if you want to. So I think it's just being open to inspiration everywhere and not just people you know in the same industry, but you know kind of beyond that. Thanks, Bags. We'll be right back after a break. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.
00:32:25
Speaker
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00:33:34
Speaker
and welcome back to the Crafty Point podcast. Bakes, let's get stuck into your background and say, how did you sort of get into the craft beer industry and what what pulled you towards it?
00:33:47
Speaker
For me, essentially at the start, it was necessity. i um I had a pretty horrible job with some horrible people. And I'd met Jo who was the manager at Thirsty Crow when I was doing my graphic design degree. I met her and we got to chatting and then I just went dropped my resume off.
00:34:10
Speaker
And were you living in Wagga Wagga at the time? i'm millen about ah Yeah, the secret of Wagga Wagga. And yeah, I just started out as as a casual bartender and I was there for over two years, I think, but then kind of was working with Craig on, you know, marketing, social media events and things like that. Was that relatively early days in the Thirsty Crow story as well?
00:34:35
Speaker
they They just moved to the big, yeah bigger one, but it was only very relatively new there. And I had been to Thirsty Crow a couple of times. I'm like, well, that's cool here. i could I could fit in. And yeah, so I was there for, I think it was just under two years. And then I made the move to Sydney, got a job at Modus and I was there for just over three years. I had a venue manager.
00:35:03
Speaker
bartender events, collaborations.
00:35:09
Speaker
We did a massive gab circuit that, um, was amazing with the bus, which was very, very exciting. And then, yeah, made my way up here. So I've been in the industry, I think for eight, nine years. And what was it? What what was it you were studying when and you went and started at thirsty Crow?
00:35:31
Speaker
Uh, graphic design. yeah So it's, it's only really when I got to Los Palms, I think where, you know, I was really able to take what I'd learnt and this degree that I'd been holding onto to and kind of really do something with it.
Community, Collaboration, and Global Inspiration
00:35:48
Speaker
Um, and pretty much free reign, which is exciting. And was that a big part of the desire for you to, with Los Palms, you knew you'd be able to really work across the business and sort of all over it. Cause it is.
00:35:59
Speaker
As you said, at the start, it's a very small team. Yeah, it was, I didn't realize the, like what I would be able to do once I got here. But when I, you know, was interviewing for the position, I'd actually had lost palms beers before we did a, uh, I can't remember. It was brew gooder at mode. So we'd had the hibiscus sour. And I remember going, this is pretty good.
00:36:26
Speaker
And then with their, you know, branding and marketing, it just, it looked like somewhere where I could thrive. So once I got here and, you know, got into the position, I think it's just learning a bit about each other as well. Like, you know, you say you you've got these degrees, but when you can really back it up and show something that's beneficial, you know, then it kind of went from there.
00:36:50
Speaker
Although there was a pretty creative approach to, I guess, how lost pawns were presenting themselves to the world even before you got there. um And then I guess you sort of took that and ran with it. It's probably a good way to to put it and started putting your own personality into it. If people haven't, um I guess, seen what, you know, lost pawns beers cans look like, it's probably worth jump jumping online and taking a look because like like how would you describe, I guess, your approach to designing labels and telling stories, you know, through the beers?
00:37:19
Speaker
It's for us here, it's starting off with a name and then building it around there. And we have taken a different approach for where it's kind of like a collage type, you know, think of a very visual storytelling, cutting this out, pasting it here. Yeah, it's kind of like a collage effect. And, you know, being able to take that across majority of the business as well. It's, it's really, yeah, it's kind of been eye opening for us and just, you know, there's only so much you can do within a certain space. And, you know, when we were starting to kind of move away from the direction that we were in, you know, we sat down and we were looking at what was trending, what
00:38:15
Speaker
you know, we wanted to kind of get into, and then it's just like finding a nice space between where we can kind of mash everything together. And that's where we landed out. And and you you say it sort of starts from a name. You've had some pretty interesting names for beers and often released as pairs as well, where there's almost a bit of a call and response. So where does the inspiration for those those come from? Majority of them are Jared.
00:38:43
Speaker
He just, he, he sees something in the world and then he's like, all right, this word, this word, this is what it is. Um, and then when it comes to kind of the, the two, we just look at, I guess, two, like dream sellers, dream killers.
00:39:04
Speaker
was like two different, like light and dark, how we can marry them together and then just build the branding from there. But it is, I think once you have a name for me, the process is quite easy rather than if I was to create a like a concept and then try and name it. I think that would be a lot harder.
00:39:26
Speaker
Fantastic. ah Bakes, one of the other reasons to have you on. there's There's so many, but I know I've said this a few times during our chat, but we're about a year on from an article I wrote about living with ah chronic medical condition in the craft beer industry.
00:39:43
Speaker
For those who haven't read it, it will be in the show notes. But I guess the shot of it, it was sort of reflecting on my own experience as a type one diabetic and working in craft beer and also yours living with ADHD and working in the beer industry. um I was blown away by the feedback from it. I think more so than I expected. um particularly how many people, I guess, contacted me and said how seen they felt and how, um and and you know, that was the hope. but A lot of these conditions are not visible. They're not sort of physically apparent. So it's always, I think, for a lot of people who live with um invisible medical conditions, it's always um
00:40:25
Speaker
a big desire, I think, to be seen and and sort of so people can understand what you're going through or or you can get it across. Where year on, are these conversations you're still having with people or what was the feedback like from your end? The feedback was amazing. um It really opened like the conversation up to like into a lot of different aspects of my life. And I got to be like connected to people that like in the industry that I probably wouldn't have found a connection with, but it it was like amazing. Like I still have that story pinned on my Instagram because it's still generating conversations and you know, just having the ability to talk about things as well in like, I think there's, it's easy to find a lot of negativity around these sorts of things. Like, you know,
00:41:23
Speaker
how it makes you feel and and kind of how it looks to other people. But I think this conversation was about finding the positives and, you know, connecting with other people. And I think bringing an important conversation to the forefront and being like, you know, you can ask for accommodations and, you know, there's a variety of people in this industry that you can connect to at any any
Future of Craft Beer: Hopes and Challenges
00:41:50
Speaker
given time that, you know, if you need help or if you need someone to talk to or or anything, I think it's just ah like amazing. it was
00:42:00
Speaker
yeah i I'm still really proud of it and I think you should be really proud of it. It's still, to this day, like generating conversations. and yeah just I think it's amazing.
00:42:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think rarely for a Crafty pint article and probably an article about Australian craft beer, it really seemed to cut through overseas as well. I got a lot of messages from people in America who also have type 1 diabetes or other conditions and things like that. So I was really never really thought like it's so hard. We talk about Australian craft beer all the time. It's so hard for one of our articles to cut through to an international audience because we're a tiny country and um all that. So that that was the thing that really blew me away by it that I was kind of like, oh, OK, this is this is a much wider conversation than um I kind of ever thought it would be when I thought we were just talking to other Australians. Yeah. And I think, too, it's not just our industry like you can kind of take that conversation into any professional setting.
00:43:05
Speaker
It's like, it's not just things. I mean, it's a different kettle of fish dealing with like beer and alcohol and things like that. But I think it's, you know, opened people's eyes to having this conversation within their industry, whatever it is, it it can kind of be copy and pasted to anywhere, which I think is really, really good.
00:43:25
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it's something I'd love to work out at ah how to keep the conversation going. I think it's important, particularly if we want to attract new people to work in beer and and things like that. It's really important to make it as clear as possible that you can be accommodated and work in the beer industry. Like like this can be a safe place for you to work um in the same way it can be for anyone who's, I guess, not part of the majority for for any reason.
00:43:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, I think I think it's amazing. And it ah I think it's also given people the opportunity as like, you know, business owners and, you know, people in those higher ups to be like, Oh, there, you know, there are conversations that we could have internally that, you know, maybe aren't warranted to have out in the open and and things like that. But they can connect with people within their own industries or their own um businesses and be like, all right, how can we work with you for you know whatever these issues are?
00:44:29
Speaker
And I guess talking of reaching an overseas audience um earlier this year, Bakes, you took the trip of a lifetime. um And I don't know, we sort of caught up with you briefly a couple of times why you were in the US and Canada. um But I guess it was a a holiday, but also a very beer um themed trip. Do you want to tell us a little bit about sort of why you went, what what you got up to over there, you know, I guess, whether there had been anything you've Seen or tasted over there that you look to bring back to to the Gold Coast Yeah, what was it like meeting the work Wrangler Wrangler in person for our if you if you're into be histogram You should know the work Wrangler. It's one of the great mean pages in craft beer in yeah in this modern era ah He's a goddamn dream come true
00:45:17
Speaker
Honestly, but yeah, the the trip started as I wanted to just go on a holiday, essentially. I'd always talk to my mate, Evan, who is in Ottawa. We used to work together at MODIS that I wanted to kind of have my birthday in Canada. And then it all kind of spiraled from there. And then when I was starting to map things out, you know, we thought there was like a beer.
00:45:45
Speaker
take that we could do, like some collaborations and and some connecting. So I'm like, yep, tick that, tick that. And yes, I was in San Diego for, I think five or six days. So Antonio and I had been friends for like years, but we hadn't actually met in real life. When I told him I was coming, he's like, yep, but the spare room, blow up mattress, um invited me into his home. Like,
00:46:14
Speaker
Picked me up, took me home. um And it was amazing. It was one of the best experiences in a whole that I've ever had in my entire life. And I think too, especially you know with someone with ADHD and anxiety and you know there's a world of unknowns when you're traveling to another country by yourself. I'd never been traveling overseas by myself.
00:46:43
Speaker
I've been to Thailand, but to fly to San Diego, insane. But see the community there was amazing. Like we, I met Paulie, who was another friend of mine. He works at Mike House. And then we did a collaboration with Seek Biko. So they're one brewery. It's like three breweries next to each other. They'll literally walk out of one into another, into another. And they've kind of got this little pocket um that you can go and you can take things in and out and it's just like they've built a community with so many different needs and it's yeah just amazing um what was what was the collab you laid down uh the collaboration beer was collect call so it was a west coast IPA of course so i flew in i got in at midnight and then
00:47:44
Speaker
I had the next day and then the next day we brewed. So i've I'm kind of walking in there and I'm like, I feel like I'm in a fog. You mash out. I want to do all the things. And then we went and we checked out full full brewing. And then I also hit North Park Beer Co before I left.
00:48:07
Speaker
But and how did you find the experience of being in like such an evolved beer culture like San Diego, you know, having been, I guess, bit been in three different elements of the Australian beer scene over here, you know, from one regional brewery, you know, faster and brewery in Modus when you're there and then now being on the Gold Coast, which is obviously developing, but a very different personality as well. And then so suddenly landing in the heart of one of the absolute you know best and most vibrant sort of craft beer communities anywhere on the planet.
00:48:37
Speaker
It was insane. The thing that really stood out to me was their connection to each other. um Like that it wasn't a competition. Like when we were brewing the beer, the guys from fall, not just the one that was close, but another one, they came in, they bought beers, we sat down and we were like sharing. I had some that I bought from here as well.
00:49:00
Speaker
But, you know, if something comes up, someone needs something, they're always lending and borrowing and the community, you can walk into anywhere. And if you tell them that you're from another brewery, like beers on the house, they come and have a look around. it's They really create an experience there. And I think they're very proud of what they do. And because it's such a craft beer centric place,
00:49:30
Speaker
They just want to work together to continue that. Like it's not, it's not doing anyone any favors to, you know, put someone else out of business because they're all offering different things. Yeah. And was there anything you sort of saw there or experienced there that you were like, we need to do this at Lost Palms or Australian Brewers need need to be doing this, these things? I had a, I can't remember the name of it, but it was a beer at gold.
00:49:58
Speaker
And goal is one of the three with Sikh. And it was bright green, like neon green. It was, goodness me, it was like a coconut. They'd taken an ingredient and then brewed a beer with it. And it was unlike anything I'd ever seen, but it wasn't like, um there's no food dye or anything. It was just, it was all very natural. And so to me, I'm just like, well, we need to,
00:50:28
Speaker
look at ingredients that you wouldn't necessarily think of. Because I'd... Neon green beer sounds very lost palms, I have to say. Yeah. Lost palms or one drop. Yeah. Maybe we could do it together. um And then also, I have never been a lager drinker. It's not something that I've really loved. I thought it was boring. But It was all I drank overseas and it really opened my eyes to like what you can do and you know, the time and effort that go into it. And it's just, I have a new found respect for, for Lager and Pilsner's now, which, you know, I would have shit on before, but. Yeah. I found that one of the, you know, the good beer in America, it was similar to the good beer in Australia, I think, but one of,
00:51:27
Speaker
the key things and ah yeah' surely part of its maturity, but also population, like the specialists really specialize. Like there's, there's people who will just devote themselves to Lager and nothing else. And there's, there is a bit of that in Australia, but you could have several breweries like that in in a city like San Diego. And it does really.
00:51:49
Speaker
ah blow your mind when you you're walking into a taproom you're like oh you just do this and you're completely unapologetic yeah about it because people can go next door for the brewery that does other styles of beer like um yeah that concentration really breeds I think um dedication to certain things. Yeah it was amazing and to see like the artists and their craft together and be able to ask questions and
00:52:17
Speaker
you know, be involved in that was amazing. But then on the other hand, when I rocked up, one of the first places that Antonio took me was Outback Steakhouse. Tried to feed me a Foster's. I'm like, no, I'll have a margarita. You have the Foster's. in And they were showing the NRL or something like that. He's like, hey, this is what I thought you would have wanted. I did take him home and make him watch Trent from Punchy.
00:52:47
Speaker
And then I've got a video and he's just like, I'm like, that's Australia, man. That's what I go to is always a succulent Chinese meal. Whenever I'm with Americans, I think you can't go past that is ah is a two minute experience.
00:53:04
Speaker
But it lasts a lifetime. And and how about and the the Canadian sort of ah leg of of the trip? you know how How was that? you know what What did you get up to while you were there? Well, I actually ended up in Texas for a little bit. OK. I did go and do a ah little visit with Jessica King and experience Austin for three or four days, I think. And then check out the beer scene there, which was extraordinary. It was, I'd never seen anything like it. And then the crew too were just amazing, like, little Australian, wrapped up, weary-eyed, and then like, have some beer, have some pizza, here, come and stay here. And I got to kind of work alongside them for
00:53:53
Speaker
for three or four days and and that was amazing. um But then from there I flew on to town. I was gonna say, did you have any contacts at Jester King before you went over or did you sort of court cold call or actually just walk in and go, hey, I'm Ozzy. I just sent them an email. I'm like, hey, I'm i'm gonna be in the area. ah Area being America. I'm gonna be in your continent.
00:54:19
Speaker
going to be around. But yeah, it was just kind of connecting with them and just saying, look, you know, I've been a fan of your beer for as many years as you've been around as well as you know the other guys here I just love to to kind of stop by see how you do things you know I will do anything I've got my boots got my jeans like put me on the line and yeah I was catching cans stacking pallets it was an amazing experience and
00:54:53
Speaker
I think it goes to show to the the connection that America has too, because they they didn't know they didn't know me from a bar of soap. But I you know just reached out and said, I'm interested. you know Wear a brewery over here. We love what you do. And then they just took the time to show me through everything, which was amazing. And Bakes, what about Canada?
00:55:16
Speaker
Canada was amazing. I ended up there for two weeks. We did a collaboration with Dominion City. We did a hazy IPA. And then they also did a version, they did an XPA. Forgive my ignorance, Dominion City is in Ottawa.
00:55:37
Speaker
um I just expect you guys to know this. um But it was, yeah, going to Canada, I was staying with my friend Evan, we used to work together at MODIS, but it was just such an experience. We ended up in Montreal for my 39th birthday. We went to some amazingly insane breweries there.
00:56:00
Speaker
uh on the way out we went to Godspeed and they do the perfect half and half pour in these massive kind of steins and it was insane. So is that like half lager half stout or something or are you talking half beer half ice cream? Lactose intolerant but it was yeah lager and and I think it was a stout I can't I probably should have uh double you just You just enjoyed them. You didn't need to know any more. Smashing them. But yeah, another really good experience was we went to Toronto, went to worst, and then we were just hanging out with Ren Navarro from Be a Diversity.
00:56:48
Speaker
who is doing insanely cool things, yeah kind of mainly the alcobeb industry, but I'd followed her online for years and to get the opportunity to kind of chat to her, met her wife, Becca, and it was just such an insane experience. Was that just another email? Just, hey, I'm going to be in your part of the world.
00:57:13
Speaker
I'd love to chat or have that. Yeah. Yeah. Like we'd had some connection on Instagram. Like she'd put things up and, you know, I'd shared that or I'd, you know, commented on a few things, but she also had worked previously with Evan. So it was kind of like a three way connection. And I just said, we're going to be in Toronto. Um, I have some Tim Tams for you.
00:57:35
Speaker
catch up and have a beer. And it was amazing. She's such an incredible person, not just like with the the diversity, um you know, in alcobev and beer, but just, you know, her experiences as a professional and what she's done in her career is is insane. so and Anyone that doesn't know her, can you explain but exactly what she's doing through beer diversity?
00:58:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I think B diversity has gone into B diversity, but it's just, you know, working with ah companies, businesses around, you know, diversity and inclusion within your workplace and, you know, processes, procedures, just everything to put in place to make sure that you know you're including everybody in in every aspect of your business. um And she does a lot of um like speaking at expos and conferences and things, but it's just, you know, she's a wealth of knowledge. And yeah, it was a real privilege to meet her.
00:58:44
Speaker
yeah Yeah, she's definitely one of the leading sort of, I think, voices in um North American beer, like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. um We normally end a podcast with a sort of the crafty three or the past, present and future questions. I thought we wouldn't do that this time because we sort of asked you the sort of the one fit thing, you know, the one nugget that you picked up from your years in working in branding and design and stuff in in beer earlier on. However, I was thinking the last one is probably still relevant. and One thing that you would like to see for craft beer, you know, in general in Australia ah in the future, what would it be? Well, yeah, I will say I will do want them to survive. And I think to just taking the experience to learn as well, um I think from what what we can take away from
00:59:32
Speaker
you know, the San Diego breweries is their ability to connect. Um, and it's not a competition, but I think also too, it's just taking advantage of the people within your business and your industry as well. Cause I think in craft beer, I've found people are the brand, like all of your employees are your brand. So when they go out, they, you know,
01:00:03
Speaker
put your best foot forward. So I think it's yeah, connecting and then also, you know, carrying that brand throughout. So does that make sense? Is that a good answer? I don't know. That makes perfect sense. All right. Thanks. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll hopefully see you soon. ah Cheers. yeah Thank you so much. Cheers.
01:00:32
Speaker
The Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty
01:00:46
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with the craft of finding other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes. And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers,