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Moving East & Brewing Green with Hamish Coates - Rocky Ridge
656 Plays3 months ago
Rocky Ridge gave the beer lovers of Melbourne a boost midway through 2024 with the news they had acquired Thunder Road Brewery in Brunswick in order to establish an East Coast outpost. While availability of their beers in the eastern states has been relatively limited, in their home state of Western Australia the brewery took little time forging a fine reputation after launching in 2017; today, they're well-established as one of WA's finest.
They've picked up a stack of trophies over the years, have a tight core range, produce a phenomenal amount of limited releases, and are in no way afraid to experiment – nothing, it seems, is off limits. More than that, however, is their approach to brewing, business, community and the planet. Born on co-founder Hamish Coates' family farm in Jindong, not far from Busselton in the South West, the brewery he launched with partner Mel Holland operates off grid, is always exploring ways in which to brew more sustainably, has been involved in multi-partner projects to develop new products, and is a shining example of how breweries can lead the way.
Even the decision to buy Thunder Road was driven by a desire to stop sending beer across the Nullarbor and instead produce beer for customers in the east in the east. We sat down with Hamish in the bluestone cottage attached to the Brunswick brewery the day before they signed the deal for a conversation covering all of the above and more. The chat was recorded before we'd set up our podcast studio so is audio-only.
Links referenced in or relevant to the show:
Froth Town 2024: https://www.froth.town/
Phat Brew Club: https://craftypint.com/brewery/731/phat-brew-club
Ten Lessons From Ten Years: Bendigo On The Hop: https://craftypint.com/news/3558/ten-lessons-from-ten-years-bendigo-on-the-hop
Rocky Ridge Buy Thunder Road: https://craftypint.com/news/3468/rocky-ridge-buy-thunder-road
Brewing A More Sustainable Future: https://craftypint.com/news/3202/brewing-a-more-sustainable-future
24 Hour Barley People: https://craftypint.com/news/2864/24-hour-barley-people
Rocky Ridge Brunswick Pre-Opening Drinks: https://craftycabal.com/member-events
Meet The Brewer Oktoberfest Special: https://craftypint.com/event/13406/meet-the-brewer-oktoberfest-special-ft-king-river
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Transcript
Will's Experience at Frothtown
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pine Podcast. I'm Will. And I'm James. Welcome back. And Will, welcome back indeed to you. You've been on the road since last time we spoke. um How was WA? Yeah, WA was brilliant. I got the chance to take a few days off, but froth town.
00:00:25
Speaker
What a beer festival. I heard, i I sort of knew how big it was. I'd heard plenty of things. James, you'd spoken about it a lot, but I was genuinely, I was blown away by the scale of it. The execution of it, like huge shout out to the bar top team, bar pop team rather, like it was incredible. They, um they run a great festival over there. Like, yeah it yeah, I know I'm sort of gushing here a bit, but I just felt like it was really brilliantly handled. And, you know, you're almost worried in a beer festival that large, if beer takes the back seat sometimes, but it's still very brewery forward. They have really set up great stages and it's it's just, yeah, people are definitely there to trial heaps of different beers and sample a lot of stuff and really sort of
00:01:15
Speaker
understand beer in a better way, I think, which is awesome to see. Well, it's interesting because at the end of the day, it's a lot lot of breweries, it's entertainment, there's a tattooist, there's music. like In many ways, it's the same as many other festivals that you can go to, but I've always felt when I go there, there's something, whether it's just the spirit, the the the punters and the breweries bring to it, but it certainly is. it's It's a really great fun and just well done event to be part of. so you know we do like to share around the travel and the events as ah amongst the team but you can see why I was quite excited to sort of I guess pass the bat on to you for this one having been there a few times in the past.
00:01:53
Speaker
Absolutely, there's a vibe to the place. Yeah, yeah. um And as you may well have noticed already, if you're watching this on YouTube, this is another audio only episode. Over time, I'm pretty sure most of our shows will be video as well. ah But the main interview coming up later was recorded before we actually got the podcast off the ground. So we were still in the planning stage.
00:02:13
Speaker
um got a bit of a heads up on some news and raced over there so um yeah don't start thinking that something's gone wrong with your computer if you're watching this on YouTube and you can't see um Will or
Event with Fat Brew Club
00:02:25
Speaker
I. and Now Will you weren't just in WA for Frothtown you were also there for I mean you visited a few breweries in the lead up to Frothtown but also hosted an event that we put on with the team at Fat Brew Club how did that go?
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, a friendly bit of competition between them and campus brewing in Perth and also Mugga River Beer Co and beer farm. The food was incredible. It's it's sort of a really high caliber or of Southeast Asian.
00:02:53
Speaker
uh street food and yeah it's it's more than just food they're cooking up at fat brew club i think like i really struggle to think of a time when i've seen a brewery stand quite as busy so sort of constantly during the sessions where i was at froth town so yeah Obviously there's a lot going on there that that I think is really cutting through with people. I'd love to sort of know what their secret sauce is. ah I'm sure plenty of other people would. yeah and And we were actually hoping to have even more amazing or exciting news.
00:03:28
Speaker
about Fat Brew Club to discuss in the intro to this week's podcast and it may actually be live by the time you listen to this. um But yeah, it sounds like they had a bit of an announcement to make on the night and it sounds like their story is just sort of going from strength to strength considering it's only a few years ago that they won, you know, the Homebrew Competition at Margaru of Birko and now they seem to be Yeah, just this real buzzy, um you know, buzzing sort of they've tapped into it. Yeah, people in a certain way, like, like, like people are really interested. And sure, the beer, that's definitely led by the beer and things like that. But they're just doing something that's super appealing.
00:04:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, great.
Rocky Ridge's Expansion and Sustainability
00:04:05
Speaker
And on the topic of WA breweries enjoying ongoing growth and making some great beers, our main guest today is Hamish Coates, co-founder of Rocky Ridge Brewing. um As you may well be aware by now, they took over the former site of Thunder Road Brewing in Brunswick, um here in Melbourne, back in May, um and we actually had a chat to him there, I think it was the day before they even signed the lease, is that right Will?
00:04:26
Speaker
you know we we knew we were going to launch a podcast so we sort of grabbed our limited amount of gear into a car and headed down to chat to them it's a really great chat because you know in the north of Brunswick it's it is a in the north of Melbourne it's a very vibrant area in terms of bars and community but very different to the southwest so it'll be really interesting to hear how he picks that apart, but um also we he took goes into great depth about the sustainability system story, which you know is something we really love to feature on the site. Like like with that story, we just ran on Mountain Rye.
00:05:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so Mick Wuss put this together around about the time we put out our previous podcast, actually, um featuring a government researcher who's looking into the viability of mountain rye, this perennial grain um as a commercial, um commercially viable crop and also chatting to Topher um at Wildflower who's made a couple of beers and is looking to see I guess what qualities it brings to the brewing process and so that's yeah another interesting development that's taken place I think over the sort of first 10 or so years of the Crafty part you know it was more talking about beer and new breweries and what was happening in the world of hops but I think there's so much interesting happening in terms of um farming and malt and yeast and I guess innovation in in all areas of
00:05:46
Speaker
in all areas of of of brewing. um But certainly sustainability and and what they're doing at Rocky Ridge is featured heavily in in the main chat coming up.
Preview of Bendigo on the Haul Festival
00:05:54
Speaker
um Before we get to that, um this weekend we're on the road again. Your your month of festivals continues with Bendigo on the Haul. One final festival.
00:06:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's a great to be back there. It's sold out once again, um as it always does or has been all but one year. So, you know, it'd be great to see a lot of people in the breweries back there. It's definitely, it's started a long time ago now, 10 years ago, and it still remains a very unique festival. I'm not sure other towns could quite handle it because Bendigo's got a very beautiful old town center. So, um yeah, yeah, can't wait to do that. No, it's quite something to sell out nine times out of 10, 2000 people.
00:06:33
Speaker
Winter Festival so yeah we'll be up there and looking a bit further ahead we've also put tickets on sale for our and a beer club event with King River Brewing. They love making sort of traditional European style beers Speaking of things that do beer businesses that do their own thing Yeah exactly and so and they've got a whole bunch of new beers coming out around about Oktoberfest so they'll be tapping some of them, and Nathan and Sam from the Brouhrouviat Audacious Month sellers on September the 21st to take you through them, so jump onto CraftyCabal.com if you'd like to be there. um Aside from that, I guess we're heading back in time, heading back in time and over to the Bluestone Cottage for our chat with with Hamish. Enjoy, cheers. Cheers.
Opening Brunswick Brewery
00:07:21
Speaker
Amish, tell us about your decision to open a brewery and taproom in Brunswick. Yeah look, it's ah it's been a pretty rapid transition to be honest. um We have had an eye on an east coast location for a while. It's always been a case that we've wanted to be able to supply our beers over here but It flies in the face of our ethos about treading lightly and environmental responsibility. and So in order to be able to service East Coast properly, we needed to have the presence here to be able to keep our distribution footprint as low as possible.
00:07:52
Speaker
so um Working with the Thunder Road team, we we only actually touched base with them about 10 weeks ago. um So the the first thoughts were that it's a good fit and then we went in and did that due diligence and it turned out to be a really good fit for us and what we're trying to achieve. So now we're just looking forward to getting the venue back up and running and getting some of our beers through the tanks and and really hitting the ground running.
00:08:17
Speaker
When you were looking at the East Coast, did you always have Melbourne in mind? Or was it kind of like, if we go to the East Coast, it just needs to be the right building? It needs to be the right fit, more than anything else. um So for us, it was about finding the right location, finding somewhere that had a good ability to distribute from, somewhere that had the right production capacity. We're not so much seeking growth here as we are seeking to be able to supply a local community. So again, for us here in Brunswick, it's about getting those roots down and really getting to understand what everyone here wants from us and what they would like to see us doing, working with local community associations, working with sporting clubs and and basically taking the same
00:08:59
Speaker
approach that we've taken in Western Australia to to getting to know everybody first and then we'll work out what everyone wants us to do. And in terms of, I mean, yeah, this is a brilliant location. It's like we're in a two-minute walk from Ligon Street. It's near my house, which is a benefit for me. But um it it is actually like ah maybe a lot of people who haven't been to Thunder Road realize it's a significant production opportunity as well for an inner-city location. Yeah, it's huge. So we've got about at a cruise we've got a two million litre capacity if we push things here it's closer to two and a half million litre capacity. No small pack on site at the moment so that's one of the first things we'll work on is the ability to package ourselves here and make sure that we can again service that local community. From there yeah look we'll we'll start to work with other venues in Victoria and and potentially further afield but for now it's yeah concentrating on this local community and making sure that we get beers into everyone's hands as fresh as possible and
00:09:55
Speaker
Again, with the lowest footprint possible.
Designing a Welcoming Brewery Space
00:09:57
Speaker
What's your intention for this physical space? because It's a pretty big space, you know, you've got a lot to play with here. And we're recording in a beautiful Blue Stone building, which is pretty rare sight in Brahmduk as well. Yeah, it's unreal. So we've we've been lucky enough that there's a heritage listed building as part of this. um It's a beautiful building, as you say, um with a whole lot of potential. so At the moment, we're just working out how we're going to reconfigure the venue internally. Our main priority at the moment is number one, to get the tanks full of beers, because obviously we need them in order to open. But then the second priority is to work out how we're going to reconfigure the inside space to make it the most user friendly and make it the best it can possibly be. It's all about enjoyment. I mean, if anyone's been to our Taphouse in Busso,
00:10:40
Speaker
We want this to feel like you're going to a mate's place. We want it to feel relaxed and comfortable and welcoming. Breweries don't always feel that way. They're stainless and industrial. So it's a lot of work for us to do in that area to to make it um feel awesome, but we've got some really cool ideas. Yes, I think you've done ah a good job with it in Bus Oaks when I was over there last year for a few nights with the family. Whenever we couldn't find my parents, we just knew they'd be back at the tap house with my dad drinking your Pilsner. And in terms of, is there going to be any sort of um working with the Thunder Road brand or is this a sort of full takeover and and rocky ridgification?
00:11:15
Speaker
So we're planning to play homage to the Thunder Road brand. We're not going to be killing it by any means. The plan is to continue with a couple of the mainstays. We're going to work with the venues that are currently supporting Thunder Road and we're going to continue to brew those beers for them. um And yeah we want to see that brand succeed into the future as much as Rocky Ridge, but obviously Rocky Ridge is where we're going to bring the energy and the vibrancy that we're known for in Western Australia and bring that into to Victoria. So our hope is that we can continue to um I guess do justice to what Thunder Road has built, pay homage to the legacy that's there because it was at one stage quite ah a big brand and unfortunately a series of events led to
00:11:58
Speaker
it are slowing down and that's that's a horrible story for another day, but ultimately we plan to continue to brew those beers.
Sustainability Initiatives at Rocky Ridge
00:12:08
Speaker
And in in terms of Rocky Ridge, in WA you're very well known, you're one of the leading brands over there, leading breweries over there. For people who might not know Rocky Ridge so well, do you want to take us a little bit back in time to you know I guess where the concept for Rocky Ridge came from on your family farm in the Margaret River region? It's going back away.
00:12:28
Speaker
And you know, you go you got two minutes, here we go. Elevate a picture, I don't have one of those. No, look, we we've been around for seven years now, and that seven years has sent a huge amount of change. um we've We've spoken at length a number of times around different things we've done. We've we've had experience in small bars we've done.
00:12:45
Speaker
a lot of different beers. We're over 500 now at last count and and planning on writing a recipe book at some point that has all of those in it just for a bit of fun, shits and giggles I guess. um But our main drive has been to tread lightly. So to be the most environmentally responsible bro as we can be. um i I take issue with the word sustainability. It gets thrown around a lot. I feel like it's a lot of greenwashing these days. I'm very careful about how we say what we do. It's an all encompassing approach. We reduce our water usage. We're off grid for power, um relying on solar and batteries.
00:13:24
Speaker
We work with our local supply chain, all of our malt now is fully certified sustainable regeneratively growing, um yeah working with our hop growers to make sure that we're getting all the footprinting information so that we know that they're doing the best that they can do in that space.
00:13:40
Speaker
supply chain and logistics consolidations to make sure that there's the least amount of movement to and from our facility that there possibly can be removal of plastic. So not using four pack carriers on our cans last year, save just over 10 tons of plastic from going into circulation, which is a huge amount just from using sustainably sourced FSC cardboard in its place, which is fully recyclable and fully regenerative. Yeah.
00:14:05
Speaker
There's lots of things that go into being environmentally responsibility, and that's that's our jam. That's what we do, and we take a lot of pride in making sure that we're ticking everything off on that list. That's not just, oh, we've...
00:14:16
Speaker
CO2 in the usual way. That is a byproduct of everything else. It's not the end goal. The end goal for us is to be net zero, and we're getting awfully fucking close now. Our footprint for last year went down from 350 grams per litre of CO2. We're now down to 280 grams per litre of CO2 in a context. Worldwide average is about 1400 grams, or 1.4 kilos per litre.
00:14:41
Speaker
And you're a farm-based brewery, so people realise that when people try a gin dong juice, that's named after gin dong, which is where the family farm is. That's a locality, yeah yeah yeah, the middle of fucking nowhere. Hamish, in terms of this space then, in terms of like throwing that sustainability,
00:14:59
Speaker
into an existing venue, an existing brewery, is that something you're sort of working towards or how does that? Can't wait for the challenge. um It's really interesting. So what we've already done is we've started to benchmark everything here so that we understand where we are first and foremost, and then we can start to make changes. There's an existing fairly small solar array on the building here. So we'll look to upgrade that. They're fairly old panels and relatively low wattage, so we can actually get a pretty instant win.
00:15:25
Speaker
with a higher output by just watching switching those out for newer models but realistically our earliest places to look will be in terms of the efficiency of use of energy and then the second one will be water. um Water I think is pretty low hanging fruit in most breweries and we can make a big difference there but The benchmarking is obviously the first point of call and making sure we know where we are so that then we can make some meaningful changes and um hopefully make things better moving forward. But yeah, it's something we take incredibly seriously and it's going to be a huge job to to get everything to where we want it to be. Again, the main consideration for us moving some production here has been
00:16:05
Speaker
the decrease in distribution footprint. And that's a significant decrease as well. So I think it's going to be a big win for us in terms of our overall impact. Cool. I mean, in terms of the sustainable and regenerative mold, like we spoke a lot, it was close to a year ago now about the work you and Bintani and Joe White and Breadid and Gav Savage did, did Tolga Farms. Where's that sort of?
00:16:31
Speaker
at now like have other breweries got on board or how's the harvest looking like can you tell us where the future of it? Yeah so the harvest has been great um so we're about to do our second batch so another 320 tonnes is going to go down. In terms of uptake to be honest it's probably been a bit slower than we'd hoped it would be across the board and perhaps cost is a factor in that.
00:16:52
Speaker
Again, I think we're seeing movement here on the East Coast, certainly with stone and wood championing it a lot more heavily now and lots more small brewers coming on board, which is amazing. So I think any traction is good traction at this point. And that's really important that as brewers, we start to think more collectively about our supply chain, about our suppliers, about the producers, how they're producing, working with them and encouraging them to make change because they'd want to.
Regenerative Farming Explained
00:17:18
Speaker
That's the thing. Farmers want to. They want to be better. They want to make the best possible product they can and they want to have less impact. They're wholly aware of it. Us promoting that, supporting it, and making fucking awesome beers with it is, I think, the most important thing we could be able to do at this point. I think beer is a great platform to tell the story of the benefits of regenerative farming. If someone's never heard that phrase before, putting it on the spot again, can you explain what people are talking about when they talk about regen farming or regen malt, and in simple terms, what the benefits are of such a thing?
00:17:50
Speaker
So it's essentially about managing land, about managing your soil so that there is lower inputs. So it's not about being fully biodynamic, it's not, and for context that means that you've got almost zero inputs, it's about lowering those to a point where your industry best practice and that's I guess what the philosophy that we take as a brewery to be industry best practice regenerative farmers are lowering their nitrogen inputs to close to zero but not zero their pesticide and herbicide use close to zero not zero they're they're just doing the absolute best they can in that space
00:18:25
Speaker
to create the lowest impact crop. Now, when we're talking about that units of nitrogen, nitrogen's mostly out nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium, they're all artificially created and have a huge environmental impact in their creation, not to mention then the number of times that the tractors are going across the field to spread said nitrogen, to to spray, to do everything. So it's about removing those inputs to the best of ability.
00:18:49
Speaker
And the idea being that it sort of massively reduces carbon and footprint, um also improves soil health. 100%. So soil health is a huge part of it. And the soil's uptake of CO2 increases with lower input. it's It's actually quite phenomenal and quite fascinating to see the relationships happening. but I guess the sticky growth so that the statistic around that for Brennan and Gabb and Toller Farms is that their impact was 78% lower for the same quality milking barley as an average Australian farm.
00:19:26
Speaker
So 78% that's huge reduction. For us that translates to a 60% lower impact for that malt on our site um as compared to a standard by normally growing malt barley. It's like nature do its thing. 100% yeah no like it let let it grow it wants to grow. If you want to find out more about what you're doing or want to look look to like start using some of that malt, do they come to you come to you guys, go through a bit of timing? What's the next thing? I've been timing or help out for sure. They're one of the champions of this movement. They're certified sustainable as a supplier now as well, which is fantastic. so They're working incredibly closely and heavily with farmers to try and do that. Obviously,
00:20:11
Speaker
Well, maybe not obviously, but at the moment, cost considerations are probably one of the primary things for most brewers. And and I guess i mean that's been one of your major projects in the last um of the last couple of years. um And we'll we'll include a link to Will's article school in the show notes. um But you've got as well as, I guess, Rocky Bridge Brunswick, you've also um' got another project going on in WA as well, and which should be opening probably around about the same time or just a few months after after Brunswick. a bit later in the piece. So we're aiming to have done Craig open for December, January this year. So um we've just finalised all of the detailed design work, builders ready to go start of July. So we'll be in there. we We're anticipating it being 12 week build. So let's call it 16 weeks and then we should be good to go.
00:20:56
Speaker
And this is going to be your Perth or Northside of Perth sort of base? Yeah, Taphouse 2.0. So it's an existing cottage, very similar to the Taphouse already. We like the idea of taking something existing and repurposing and turning it into something new. And it's a similar philosophy that we're taking here in Brunswick as well as taking what's here, taking the bones of what's here and turning it into Rockeridge, Rockeridge a fire, you know, having a bit of fun bringing that energy to it.
00:21:24
Speaker
the done Craig location, beautiful spot, really well established trees all around it and great big outdoor area, much the same as up, I sort of attack us. So we're just looking forward to bringing that local neighborhood vibe and community friendly atmosphere. Cool. Well, we might take a quick break and we'll see you on the other side of it.
00:21:50
Speaker
and will be right back. There's no doubt that running a craft brewery can be tough. There are so many moving parts and often not enough hands to manage it all. And when things get tight, sadly it's often the marketing efforts that get put on the back burner. But believe me friends, if you're not talking about your business, nobody else is either.
00:22:08
Speaker
And that's where the Crafty pint can help. We've spent over a decade building up the largest and most engaged audience of craft beer drinkers anywhere in the country. They read about beer, they listen to beer, and most importantly, they buy beer. And if you want to connect with that audience, there's no better way than with a brewery listing on the Crafty pint business directory. For just $50 a month plus a one-off setup fee, you'll be featured on the Crafty pint website and on our app, which helps beer lovers find their nearest breweries wherever they are.
00:22:38
Speaker
We'll promote all of your beers with engaging write-ups and share them across our newsletters and social channels. We can help you promote your taproom events or even assist in recruiting your next team member with our popular job listings. Plus, we have our large loyalty club, the Crafty Cabal, where you can promote special online offers. And when you're ready, all listed businesses benefit from 20% off digital advertising with the Crafty Pint to help you drive your new beers, events and campaigns even further.
00:23:07
Speaker
Consider us your in-house marketing partner, helping you connect with customers while you get on with the job of making great beers. Email craig at craftypint.com for more info. And now, back to the podcast.
00:23:28
Speaker
All right, we're back here with Hamish from Rocky Ridge.
Family-Run Dynamics at Rocky Ridge
00:23:32
Speaker
So Hamish, as well as being a farm-based brewery, also family-based, family-run operation. I know you're very much the face of Rocky Ridge for many people, but I'm also pretty aware that Mel is also, I guess, a significant driver of the business. Do you want to tell us a bit about how that's... works and how it's come about. Yeah, for sure. So I mean, we're very lucky that we're still an independent family business. I mean, I know there's plenty of others out there who have had to find investment over the last couple of years. So I guess first off, it's awesome that we've been able to maintain that and we're really happy to have.
00:24:07
Speaker
um Mel's the driving force behind our ESG and sustainability goals. She has taken that and run with it and is working tirelessly with the crew to make sure that we're hitting the goals that we set ourselves. Again, net zero being our goal and we want to hit that within the next 12 months, which is going to be incredibly difficult to do. but If you've met Mel, she's got the tenacity to make that happen, and and yeah know I'm very confident in in her ability to achieve that. um She's also the driving force behind all of the design work in everything that we do. um Not so much the branding, but when it comes to tap houses, when it comes to building, when it comes to council permitting, when it comes to
00:24:47
Speaker
Any expansion plans we have, Mel is there doing all the planning aspects, all of the detailed drawings and design work to make that happen. So there's a huge amount of work in that, as I'm sure you can imagine, with three fairly matching projects on this here.
00:25:02
Speaker
um yeah I mean, and as a young couple, sort of before you launched Rocky Ridge, were you were aware that this was how things might, how the division of labour might work and that each of you had certain skills that were going to work, or has this just been almost like happenstance, you like, oh, you're already good at this. I'll do this. And, you know, let it flow. We had absolutely no idea how any of this was going to play out. And to be honest, we we really expected to be just the two of us in the brewery for forever and to be a small, local very I think time's changed and we wrote a little bit of a wave of craft beer over that certainly first four years anyway up until COVID and and then even then in Western Australia we certainly saw continuing increases.
00:25:43
Speaker
We never set out or planned the division of of ah everything. Certainly Mel has a better skill set in that environmental responsibility area than I do and is able to drive that forward really well.
00:25:59
Speaker
You know, Rocky Ridge is a brewery that's managed to pivot a lot and change and we're in this sort of moment at the moment in Craftsby where places are closing and there's a lot of pessimism out there. Can't look at what's going on in WA and it's... breweries opening, breweries kind of amalgamating a bit, but in a very sort of positive way. Like, do you think the scene in WA is a bit different to what's going
Craft Beer Scene in WA vs. East Coast
00:26:25
Speaker
on? Oh, we're in a bubble. We're in a fucking bubble. Pardon my language, but like it's, it's become increasingly obvious. And certainly since we started looking at the East coast, that WA is its own almost country in comparison to to here. The positivity is amazing and it,
00:26:45
Speaker
It feels strange being here in Melbourne and seeing some of the things going on. But then the flip side of that is there's still so much positivity in craft beer. There's so much energy and there's so many people who are driving such amazing beers forward and doing such amazing things. So I guess, yeah, WA is a bubble. um It really is. But I firmly believe that where getting through the worst of it now and we're about to come into a period of really amazing growth again for the craft industry and and that might not be this year it might not be next year but it will come and it will happen because ultimately consumers want to support local and they want to support quality and they want to know that they're helping people in their own community to continue to drive that community forward so i think i think it's all going to turn i don't know when that will be though
00:27:40
Speaker
and do you think still having that being a family-run business that that sort of maybe shapes your perspective in a way that some doesn't work for some people in the sense that you know you're making this big investment in quite a significant size brewery in the east coast kind of looking towards a future that's maybe not within the next five years or something? Yeah, look, we've we've always taken a really long term outlook in everything we do and we probably wouldn't have the sustainability goals and mission that we do if it wasn't for the fact that we're looking at the next 30 years, 50 years as a family operation and we're not looking at the next two to five years. The next two to five years is important for us and it sets certainly a really beautiful footing for us moving forward but I guess that longer term outlook probably
00:28:26
Speaker
it eases any of the tension of the current market or current market and conditions and it gives us a lot of confidence because again, while we might have a lull at the moment, that lull will turn and it's the same with all markets. So there's cycles and that cycle will turn. It's just again, a matter of when and being there and being in a strong position and ready to go.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, I've checked a few people, you know, I've mentioned Finney before recording here with Found. He's, you know, see, not just optimistic, but sees a lot of opportunity. I've been, you know, talk to other breweries or brewery owners of similar size who might, others might say, well, you're in that sort of valley of death. You're the ones that are going to be wiped out by this downturn. They're going,
00:29:03
Speaker
We've made decisions we had to make. We're looking ahead and we see opportunity, you know, ahead. And so it's yes um invigorating to hear that. we We certainly try and tell both, you know, we report on the bad stuff that's happening, and try and analyze it, but also tell the good stories that are happening and keep reminding people just look around, you know, compared to 15 years ago.
00:29:23
Speaker
the know the the industry is completely changed. And the problem is people swallow people jump on the bad news. It's like, hey, we're still telling good news people. It's really important that we continue to tell that good news story, I think, because ultimately, we all love Good Beer. We all love the people in this industry. It's amazing. And we're we're so fortunate to do what we do. I look back, so 10 or 12 years and I was working in landscaping and, you know,
00:29:50
Speaker
You don't see landscapers going out and helping each other out or supplying materials to each other to help them. this is Sorry to the landscapers out there. You certainly weren't. Certainly way we weren't at that point in time. Slashing tyres of your competitors. yeah um But no, we're really lucky. and yeah Particularly where we are down in the southwest at WA, there's some amazing breweries and everyone works so closely together. it's it's you know, we're as strong as we are because of the people we're around. And I firmly believe that's the case here as well. So it's about getting on board and being a part of the community, being a part of the other breweries and hopefully everybody lifting as a result of that, you know, that rising tide mentality, I think is a really important one to bring to it.
00:30:32
Speaker
And I think the tough times that should be going for a number of years now, whether it's been, you know, fires, floods, Covid, lockdowns, whatever it is, I think in in some ways it's maybe sort of refocus people on why they're doing it. Maybe that's why someone like yourself or someone like Finney who's like a lifer in this and looking I had a long period of time. It's like, I'm looking at the long game. i wasn I wasn't trying to get out of this in four years or whatever. And my my my plans have been shattered. It's like, you know, you can more easily see the positives and, you know, and see what, and I think that's maybe people refocused and go, why did I get into this? What do I, well, you know, I can refocus my attention on my local community or on making the beers I was wanting to make and not getting distracted by what's happening. And it feels to me like if it does become a bit more grassroots for a while and a bit more locally focused and you know, then that's it. actually going to create like a stronger and more, I guess, long term base for the craft beer industry as well? Yeah, no, 100 percent. It's ah I think we certainly refocused internally on who we are and why we make beer. And we make beer for that end of the day moment where your cracker can open and you have that little smile on your face because you know you're about to just be in a relaxing zone.
00:31:48
Speaker
for me it's when i get home crack a beer and go out the back and water the garden right like it's just everything else ceases to exist and i'm just in that that moment so that ability to go we're not just in this for the rat race we're not trying to do anything other than bring joy and a smile to everyone's faces for us The addition to that is we want to do it in a way that is the most responsible possible, both environmentally and also shut socially. So it's about how can we make this work the best possible. yeah It probably seems odd for us to be opening over here, but the real goal behind opening here has been in reducing our distribution footprint so that we're able to service the market that we see and that we see that there is demand because we're seeing ah
00:32:40
Speaker
postage for our Australia Post go through the roof, and we're going, well, this isn't ideal. This isn't what we want. we We actually want to be able to service the local community and the local market. That's why in Perth, we're putting small tap outs in Dunkirk, because again, it brings us closer to the people who are drinking beers. And that I think is really important. I mean, we've all, I think, analyzed and seen that being a local community hub is a really important part of being a brewery and being involved with local sports clubs and being involved with local associations, local charities, helping everybody out because that's what we are because everyone comes here again for that end of the day moment of relaxation so we want to help everyone to do that and just chill.
00:33:23
Speaker
Yeah, Hamish, we've spoken a lot about Rocky Ridge and the business and all that sort of, we haven't really talked about the beers that much.
Rocky Ridge's Beer Variety
00:33:30
Speaker
I mean, at the end of the day, you are probably more known in WA for the sort of scale and the scope of beers that you produce that are often like, particularly outlandish. I think Jono love and hates us, both in equal nature for the number of beers we've ever released, but yeah. Yeah, and and one, that you were probably one of the,
00:33:52
Speaker
early breweries and WA to do that. And you've kind of kept up that heavy release schedule. And do you still see that as being the sort of rocky wedge, right? I know a lot of people had that release kind of scheduled down.
00:34:05
Speaker
Yeah, look, we every year we sit down and sort of strategic. we We had it two weeks ago. We get our whole team together for a workshop. So everyone's in and we brought the Thunder Road crew who are staying on with us across as well to meet our whole team. And every year we sit down and we have the same discussion. We should slow down. We should slow the releases down and we actively pair them back. And then suddenly someone somewhere along the line throws a few more beers in or there's a couple of collaborations and We have a seventh birthday and brew eight beers for it because that makes sense for some reason. But um for us, those new beers are about learning so that we can build our core range better, so that we can better direct new products, so that we can have a creative outlet for the brewers. I mean, it it seems weird. We did 106 beers, unique beers last year. um That was about 20% of our overall production. The other 80% is our core range.
00:34:57
Speaker
We're not seen as a big brewery and certainly we don't try to be a big brewery. We're just servicing our community and servicing the people who want to to try out everything that we produce. um
00:35:09
Speaker
Yes, we are scaling it back. Certainly the volume of each of those releases has gone from being, we're doing sort of 4,000 liters of each. We're now doing 2,500 liters of each just to make sure that we don't hold excess stock.
00:35:24
Speaker
um But other than that, we don't plan to slow down our limited release program. It's a hell of a lot of fun. It's something that we find is really useful to us as a tool that lets us experiment with new hot products. It lets us experiment with new ways of using Molts. It lets us experiment with different processes and production methods. So I think that the positives for us as a brewery outweigh any negatives. And then the big positive is that we give our customers a whole lot of choice and a whole lot of fun stuff to try.
00:35:53
Speaker
Oh well, like with that amount of beers, like is there anything particularly outlandish or any series that you're particularly proud of? Honestly, like they're they're all unique, they're all different, they're all a lot of fun. They're all your children? They're not allowed to have favourites.
00:36:11
Speaker
i look i think In terms of the brew team and what we love doing the most, it's the barrel program stuff. it's It's not something that's a commercial program for us. It's really just having fun and experimenting and playing with different bugs. In terms of what we put in our cans, we're a little bit more limited because we're a bit too scared to play with any bugs and cans. um There's too high of a risk of infection or anything going wrong with the claw range beers.
00:36:39
Speaker
But no, look, I think the the style of the moment for us right now um is the Kelly IPA. we're absolutely That space is that space is like killing it. um And we're seeing it a much...
00:36:54
Speaker
Stronger shift towards session ability than we have for a long time. So we're we're playing a lot more in that space than we have. I mean, it sounds silly because I've got a fridge full of seven and a half and nine percent. Nothing more sessionable than a seven and a half percent Kelly.
00:37:10
Speaker
um But now that there there's definite trends and changes in the market. I mean, Again, three years ago, a double buck was now an impossible to sell and now they're moving quite well, which is really interesting. We are seeing more lagers being more popular, which is great. You know, again, that sessionability side of things is really important. And, you know, everyone's slightly more health conscious than they have been for quite some time. So, you know, again, four to 6% percent of us seem to be involved, which makes sense.
00:37:40
Speaker
sir Talking of sessionability and health, will you be doing the 24 hour boil or barley wine again? Yes. ah um We actually just did a 24-hour boil, pasted out with one drop. For anyone who knows beer, that finished at 23, finished at 23 Plato. So there's about another 10% beer in there somewhere. And just to give people context, how long would you normally boil, like, you know, your ace so ah IPA? 60 minutes. Yeah, so 60 minutes, sometimes 90 minutes. but um It's like the Le Mans of beer. Pretty much. um there's There's some serious, serious tunes played overnight when we're doing those. Ross and I are normally the ones who put our hands up because it's a pretty brutal slog to be there for that long. But the end result is really cool. So you end up with this malar reaction crystallizing sugars so that they're fermentable. So you end up with these beautifully complex flavors going on as a result of it.
00:38:34
Speaker
um Which adds to or lends to the thickness of the beer but also lends a huge amount of color, flavor and aroma to the finished product. So the end result is definitely worth it. um Is it worth it from a sanity point? I'm not sure. um But yeah, it's I don't know if we'll do another 24 hour for a while. I reckon and we'll leave it a couple of years like we did last time.
00:38:57
Speaker
And of a more recent vintage, and congratulations, you picked up a trophy at the Ebers this year for Rock Candy. Do you want to tell people a little bit about about that there? Yeah, so like we've we've brewed sours for a long time. um So one of the things that we probably do that's slightly unique to most other breweries who do kettle sours is that we don't actually kettle sour as we tank sour them. um So we do a co-fermentation and we don't ever kill that lacto. Um, so that lacto goes live into cans. Um, so we've done plenty of testing. And when I say plenty, I mean plenty of testing to ensure that there's good shelf stability there. Um, the lacto strain that we use is inhibited by, um, hops. So it's the five IBU dose of hops is enough to, to, to kill it or stop it. I should say inhibit is the right word. Um, rock candy was basically five years of learning about sours and about
00:39:51
Speaker
how we like flavors to interact and then work out which flavors we like interacting with the most. And yeah on the face of it, strawberry, passion fruit and kiwi fruit don't sound like three flavors that you would generally put together, but we were really happy with the interaction of those. And we're really happy with the layering that we're able to get from it. um it's It's been a beer that I guess we,
00:40:20
Speaker
took more time than any other core range to develop, which which you know I don't think anyone particularly expects us to to say that, but we we put significant amount into it. For instance, working out that yeah we can use different forms of sugar and lactose in order to have unfrementable sweetness in there to build that body out. um yeah There's a lot of different things that we've done in order to make that be the most amazing that it can be. We're stoked to win a trophy for it. um It was certainly not expected and we we certainly never take any of that that for granted, but um it was pretty awesome to see that time and energy rewarded. It's not often you see a cool range beer winning that category either. It's normally it's the weird and wonderful that end up in there. um we we're We're very familiar with winning awards for weird and wonderful beers. so yeah um Now we did give you a bit of a heads up on
00:41:14
Speaker
ah three questions we're going to ask you. um we I guess like the past, present and future of Hamish or Rocky Ridge um and had a bit of time to think about these. So there'll be that what one focus in the past, like if if you go back in time to ah when Mel and yourself were about to launch the business, is there one thing that you wish you'd known before starting the business?
00:41:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think what I probably wish I knew more was how supportive the rest of the industry is. so and I don't want to sound corny with that. It's the old landscaping tarnishing. We really should have asked more questions because the the people who were around us wanted to see everyone succeed. so we We should have asked more questions as the people who offered their help rather than basically sitting back and not listening or not accepting that, ah I guess, olive branch or that help. So I think I wish we had have accepted it at the start rather than going on, I will push our own way forward. Cause I think we could have done things a bit better. And in terms of a um piece of advice you'd give to anyone coming into the industry, what would you kind of think that one gem above all,
00:42:27
Speaker
No, fuck, there's so many different things that come across my mind. But I mean, ultimately, for anybody coming into the industry. i you just need to be prepared for the fact that there's a lot more cleaning than you think there is. matter what you're doing. yeah it It doesn't matter what what job you think you're coming into in a brewery, you will be cleaning and there will be lots of it. And the quicker you are familiar with that and understand that and just get on it, the quicker you won't be doing quite as much cleaning as you are at the start. um But now in all honesty, there's there's so many different things and ultimately,
00:43:01
Speaker
go out there, have some fun, it's an awesome industry, embrace it, enjoy it, and remember not to drink too much. And looking ahead, almost like blue sky thinking, not so much a rocky ridge, but the industry as a whole, if there's one thing you'd love to see for the Aussie craft beer industry, what would that be?
00:43:16
Speaker
I think it's just positivity at the moment, ah particularly right now. I just wanna see more positivity out there. I wanna see everyone getting up and around and about it and getting out to the festivals, getting out to events and getting amongst it like we were five years ago when it was in the heyday and everyone was around everything all the time and having a great time doing it. Now it's it almost feels too forced instead of just being, I wanna be here and I wanna do it and I wanna be around it and I wanna be,
00:43:42
Speaker
Having a beer with the new guy that I've just met because he's passionate about craft. He's passionate about good beer He's passionate about what we're doing and why we're doing it. That's that's what I'd love to see more of personally in terms of beers more double box. And I guess with you coming in and breathing like new life into this and you know established brewery and venue here, I guess that's gonna, I'd imagine bring a bit of positive, especially I'd have thought to you, well what's what's the walk from your house to here? Less than 15 minutes, ideal.
00:44:14
Speaker
Yeah, we're looking forward to it. It's going to be a challenge, but it's going to be a lot of fun. And as I said, it's we're here for the next 20, 30, 50 years. It's not this isn't for tomorrow. So we we want to be a part of the community and and just have some fun, make some good beers, make some noise and drink some good beers. A great thing. All right. Thanks. but Thanks for the chat. We'll um yeah. Cheers, guys. Thank you.
00:44:39
Speaker
The Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website craftypint.com and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
00:44:53
Speaker
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