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104. Hayley Meier on the Power of Perseverance in a Dance Career
129 Plays1 day ago
In this episode of The Brainy Ballerina Podcast, I’m joined by Hayley Meier: dancer, choreographer, and educator currently serving as an Assistant Professor of Dance at the University of Las Vegas, Nevada
Hayley shares her journey from competition studio training to intensive ballet education, and how she ultimately carved out a career that blends performance, choreography, and teaching. We talk about her time dancing with Rochester City Ballet and River North Dance Chicago, including the persistence it took to land her dream job and why not getting hired right away doesn’t mean “no” forever.
We also dive into the emotional reality of unexpected career transitions, including the closure of River North, and how that pivotal moment led Hayley toward graduate school at her alma mater, the University of Arizona, and a new creative path in choreography and higher education.
This conversation is full of honest insight on navigating uncertainty, building confidence through small daily habits, and why learning to love the process is essential for long-term success in dance.
Key “Pointes” in this Conversation:
- Choosing college over a direct company path to pursue both ballet and jazz and how attending the University of Arizona opened up career opportunities
- Landing her dream job at River North Dance Chicago and the impact of River North’s unexpected closure on her dance career
- Navigating the freelance dance scene and redefining her identity beyond performing
- How graduate school opened the door to choreography and teaching
- What she loves about teaching at the collegiate level and developing artistry in dancers
Connect with Hayley
WEBSITE: www.hayleymeier.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/hayleymeier
Links and Resources:
Brandllet: www.brandllet.com
ORZA: www.orzabrand.com (use code BRAINYBALLERINA for 10% off)
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
Recommended
Transcript
Valuing Process and Consistency in Dance
00:00:00
Speaker
If I could encourage dancers to value the process, that would be so beneficial to them because it is about the work day in and day out when you don't feel like doing it, when you don't want to do it, when everything is working against you, like getting up and doing it over and the consistency of doing it over and over again. and allowing yourself to experience the failures because you can't get to those 18 pirouettes without failing.
Introduction to Brand New Ballerina Podcast
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer.
00:00:58
Speaker
Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Introducing Haley Meyer: A Dance Journey
00:01:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast. I'm your host, Kaitlyn Sloan, and I am joined today by Haley Meyer. Haley is a performing artist, choreographer, and dance educator.
00:01:19
Speaker
She earned her BFA and MFA in dance from the University of Arizona and danced professionally with Rochester City Ballet and River North Dance Chicago. She is currently an assistant professor of dance at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
00:01:34
Speaker
Haley, I always like to start by asking my guests, why did you take your very first dance class? Why did I take my very first dance class? Well, first of all, let me just say that I'm so thrilled to be here with you. And so thank you for having me on.
00:01:46
Speaker
The reason that I took my very first dance class, I believe, is because my older sister first got into dance. So my Nana, she put my older sister into dance when she was about the age of three. and I'm three years younger than my sister. So by the time I was born and I was at the age of three, you know, they were already involved in the whole world of dance. And so it just seemed like the natural trajectory to put me into classes. And it was probably easier to manage those schedules if we were both in the same activities. Yeah, the rest is history.
00:02:18
Speaker
Did your sister keep dancing too? She did She danced all the way through high school. So we went to a competition studio. was called Marilyn Schneider School of Dance in upstate New York. And it was a lot of fun because we got to do a lot of duets together. we were in a lot of groups together as well, even though there was a little bit of an age gap. We really had a close childhood because of that.
00:02:40
Speaker
And it's actually funny that I'm just remembering this now, but when I was younger and I first started dancing, I don't think I liked it very much. And you're young, you don't know. You don't know what you don't know. i have a a vague memory of my mom saying, okay, you know, if this is not something that you want to continue doing, that's totally fine. But go and tell your teacher, Marilyn at the time, you know, that you don't want to dance anymore. And so I was, you know, probably a young six-year-old or something. and went up to my teacher and and told her that I didn't want to dance. And I don't remember that exact conversation. But let's just say she didn't let me quit. And I'm very glad for that, because i probably right then and there would have quit. But she she must have saw something in me. And yeah, i'm I'm so thankful that she pushed me to continue on even at that young age. Can you tell us more about what your training was like growing up?
Early Training and Ballet Interest
00:03:34
Speaker
So like I said, when I was three, i went to a competition studio. We studied ballet, jazz, modern. it seemed like I was dancing pretty much every day. we did a lot of conventions and competitions, so that was a lot of fun. And about the time when I was...
00:03:53
Speaker
11, decided to get a little bit more serious with my ballet training. And there was this school located in the city from where I grew up in Rochester called the Draper Center for Dance Education. i decided to go there for a summer, you know, just to work on my technique, to see what that was like. For a time, I was going to two studios at once. i think I did that for about a year and a half. And And eventually i started to shift more towards the ballet training because it just required more of my time. At first, I really had a love for jazz, jazz and tap. And it wasn't until I actually started training at this ballet school that I then developed my love for ballet. And so through those years, I slowly transitioned into the ballet training and we did six days a week. I'm sure your training was very similar, right? Six days a week. Yep.
00:04:44
Speaker
four to five hours a night, all ballet. We did study jazz and modern, but it was a lot less. I think we only did that one or two days a week. And then the rest of it was spent honing in on all of that technique of classical ballet and the artistry of that. It was intense. Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:03
Speaker
From high school, how did you decide to attend college for dance? And how did you decide specifically to go to U
Choosing University of Arizona's Dance Program
00:05:10
Speaker
of A? At the time when I was training at this ballet school, it was more common for dancers immediately out of high school to transition into a company. I feel like I remember being around 13 and 14 and just aspiring to dance with American Ballet Theater. It seems like a lot of the older girls that I really looked up to at the studio, that was the trajectory that they were taking. And of course, you know you see you see these people that you idolize going into these ballet companies and you want to do the same thing. And then around like 15, I would say, i realized that maybe that wasn't the path that I wanted to take. Or i think I started to really reflect on my love still for jazz dance. And i I kind of missed that. And I just wanted to find the platform where I could do both, where I could still work on my technical classical ballet, but then bring a little bit more of that modern and contemporary and jazz back into my life. We were considering we, me and my mom, we were considering our options or my options for professional life. But then also like she was really pushing me to consider
00:06:20
Speaker
my options for college as well, which I'm so glad that she did. The reason that I discovered the University of Arizona was because Desiree Robbins, who at the time was working for Tremaine Dance Convention, her and my mom and the three of us, we had a close relationship. I really looked up to her as a mentor. And she had reached out to my mom and said, oh, you should consider the University of Arizona. They have this great program. I think that Haley would do really well there. take her out there, you know, and us living all the way on the East coast. I mean, i had never heard of the university of Arizona. It was never on our radar. And so my mom took me out there for this event that they have called Arizona jazz dance showcase.
00:07:02
Speaker
And it's a huge convention type of environment that they have at the school. And I auditioned that same weekend and I just fell in love with the program. I mean, first of all, it's in Arizona.
00:07:14
Speaker
And I was living in snowy New York. And so I went there and it was palm trees and beautiful weather. Honestly, it felt like I was in the movies. It was things that I had only seen on television. Yeah. Well, when I was in Valley Tucson, I remember to even like driving and you'd see the mountains. I would be like, this looks fake.
00:07:32
Speaker
It does. It's so beautiful. I was like, this can't be real. It has to be like, a yeah, like you said, a movie scene. Exactly. And I mean, that was my initial like the wow factor, you know, when I went to that school. But then during that weekend of being at the Arizona Jazz Dance Showcase, I was just exposed to so many different faculty members that were teaching there at the time that were also teaching classes during this convention.
00:07:55
Speaker
i was able to perform there. I went to go see one of the college shows. And i remember watching this one work, it's called the Reality of a Dreamer by Sherry Zunker.
00:08:06
Speaker
And I mean, they had these amazing costumes on, these mesh body suits with jazz shoes. It blew my mind. It was the most classic dance I had ever seen, but it was like sexy and it was engaging. And I remember watching that particular dance and thinking, I want to go to that school because that is what I wanted to do. You could see that the technique was there from the dancers and they had that balletic aesthetic, but then they were able to use their jazz style. If you've never seen the work,
00:08:37
Speaker
I highly recommend it. It's still one of my favorites to this day. How did attending U of prepare you for your professional
Benefits of Conservatory-Style Training
00:08:44
Speaker
career? So the University of Arizona, I mean, there's many different reasons why it prepared me, I think, but It was ah conservatory style training that was situated within a research one university. So I had the opportunity to still study pretty rigorously in ballet, in jazz and modern dance. They have a triple track program there. And then at the same time, I was also able to go to a regular college and experience that life that I wanted. I wanted both worlds.
00:09:15
Speaker
And so going there really gave me that opportunity. And the training that i received from that school was amazing. For the first time, really, in my training, I was introduced Balanchine work. My freshman year, I was able to perform Tchaikovsky Pas de Deux.
00:09:30
Speaker
I think back on that now and I just think, wow, what an amazing opportunity that I was afforded at that school as a freshman to come in and be able to perform that work. But I also made a connection there with Frank Chavez, who was the director of River North Dance Chicago.
00:09:48
Speaker
Again, my freshman year, he had come to set a work. One of his quintessential pieces called Grease and Sweet, and it was a jazz piece and I was cast in that. It kind of opened my eyes to this other world. It sounds silly to say this because of the internet and all of social media now, but at the time 2005, I didn't know that there was jazz concert dance companies that you could perform in and tour with. And so meeting Frank while I was at the University of Arizona completely opened up my eyes to this whole other world. And so from there, i started to go and do the summer programs every year at River North Dance Chicago. And I started to build a connection around that. And so yes, the university of Arizona prepared me because they gave me the training, but they also opened up all of these doors for networking.
00:10:40
Speaker
i mean, who knows what would have happened, but if I hadn't have gone to the university of Arizona, I probably wouldn't have met Frank Chavez in that capacity, or I was working one-on-one with him. i really don't think that then my trajectory would have taken me to Chicago after college. So out of college, was that your first step into a professional career?
Dance Career with Rochester City Ballet and River North Dance Chicago
00:11:01
Speaker
it was not. Out of college, so let's see, I graduated in 2009. Basically, after I had performed Gruce & Sweet and gone to the summer programs at River North in Chicago.
00:11:13
Speaker
That was a goal of mine. I was like, I love this company. Also, I should preface this with Sherry Zunker was also at a point the director of River North in Chicago. And so reality of a dreamer, like it was all kind of connected.
00:11:27
Speaker
I got to experience all of this work I was really drawn to. When I graduated in 2009, I did audition for River North. Unfortunately, there was not a position available in the company. so There's not a position. You know, there's no opportunity there for me. At the same time, I was also auditioning for the Rochester City Ballet. You know, I was kind of auditioning all over. The Rochester City Ballet is, or at the time, it was the company for the school that I was training growing up. So Draper Dance Center was a school for the Rochester City Ballet. I had had a very close relationship with the director at the time, Jamie Leverett. She was a huge mentor and still is a huge mentor of mine. She hired me. at the Rochester City Ballet. And so I danced there for two years before securing a contract with River North in 2011. And then I moved to Chicago. So did you just like keep in touch with Frank and keep auditioning? Play to the sea like when there's a spot, call me or how did that go? Yeah, I mean, i think Frank knew that I was
00:12:29
Speaker
eager to get a job with the company. i was always going to the summer programs. not I wasn't still going to the summer programs when I was dancing professionally. But I was still auditioning every year. Yes. And my director, Jamie Leverett at the time at RCB, she was very supportive. i think because I had trained with her since I was 11. She, of course, she wanted me for her company. But at the same time, she knew that I had other goals and wanted to put my foot and dabble in in all different things. And so she was very supportive of me auditioning for River North. I kept in contact with Frank as much as one person would that's not
00:13:08
Speaker
an employee of theirs, um but i yeah, I think that he knew that I wanted a job because every year I was there at the audition, whether it was a couple of years, I did a private audition, which was very intimidating and hard, but I'm really glad I did that. It gave me insight into what a company member goes through on a day-to-day basis. And then my last audition that I did, i went to more of the cattle call audition and that was actually where I secured the job. It had to do with timing. Obviously there was a position available.
00:13:36
Speaker
Oh my gosh. I remember that audition like it was yesterday. It was a seven and a half hour long audition. Yes, I know. it was so intense. We did, we started with a full ballet class, which was nice. And then we just kept learning rep.
00:13:51
Speaker
I don't remember all of the rep that we learned, but it was a varied repertoire. And then the last part of it, we had to learn a duet or a paw, contemporary paw of Frank's. And I remember being partnered with this guy, Tucker Knox, who was also auditioning. It was funny because we were partnering together and I remember he had this like major back injury. And so he had to do all these lifts and I felt like, oh my gosh, I hope I'm not killing you as you're trying to lift me.
00:14:18
Speaker
But looking back on that, it's funny now because we both ended up securing a job. So the partnership worked out and we joined the company at the same time. Was that a standard length audition for River North or was that just a particularly long one? You know, i don't, I don't know because The first two years that i had auditioned, I did private auditions. So I would go and I would just take company class. And then while the company was rehearsing in one room, somebody was working with me, teaching me repertoire in a different room. And so, yeah, that audition still was the whole length of a work day. But I had a lot of breaks and it just felt a little bit different. So the only audition that I did for River North that was, you know, a cattle call audition was that one. And so I think that is probably typical, or at least I know that Frank at the time, he really liked to see the dancers and really get a feel for who they were and how they worked and
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah, you just wanted to see them in all different kinds of repertoire. And so it took that long. And I love this because I think for a lot of dancers, if you don't get the job the first time around at the company, a lot of dancers are like, OK, they don't like me. It's not for me. I'm not good enough, whatever.
00:15:34
Speaker
But this was the company that you were like, I know I meant to dance here and I'm going to keep coming back until I get the job. And I think that's a really important lesson. Like even if it's not the right time for you, if there's not a position open, there's so many things that are going on that are have nothing to do with you.
00:15:49
Speaker
So just for dancers to know, like keep going back if that's where you want to dance and you have a passion for that, like keep showing up and eventually the timing might work out. Yeah. I mean, i think if I didn't experience it just like that, I probably wouldn't believe it myself. But having lived through that, yeah, it is so important. And and I try to instill that in my dancers even now that I'm teaching here at UNLV. I always tell them, it took me three years to get into one of the companies that I had a goal of dancing for. It's not always that they don't want you or you're not the right fit. I truly believe this now because I experienced it and I lived through it, that timing plays such a huge part in securing a job because especially for a nonprofit dance company, they don't have an endless supply of finances. i mean, I wish they all did. It would solve a lot of our problems, right? In the arts. But you can only hire a dancer if there's a position available.
00:16:53
Speaker
And then you also have to think, from a director's standpoint, you have this body of repertoire that you're doing, right? And so let's say for River North at this time, they had 12 dancers in the company.
00:17:03
Speaker
So when a dancer leaves, you need to then fill that position probably with a dancer that's going to fit into the costumes that you're going to be able to place right into that person's spot for all of these different pieces of rep because Every year you're not doing brand new works, you know, and so it has to make sense for the company as well. And so I think all of my stars just aligned in that year in 2011. It is funny because my contract and it never works out this way, but I'll just I'll tell you this because I think it's fun. But my contract with the Rochester City Ballet ended on it was like July And my contract with River North started July eleventh of that same year. So we had a performance on the Saturday night with Rochester City Ballet, my final performance.
00:17:56
Speaker
I packed two suitcases, got on a plane and flew to Chicago to then start with my new company that next day. Wow. I mean, I was sleeping on an air mattress. It was just a whirlwind. So yeah, it was it was back to back, but...
00:18:14
Speaker
I have very fond memories of that time in my life. When you were with River North, are there some choreographers or pieces of work that you got to dance that had a really big impact on you as an artist? Yes. Well, I'll first say this, that so many of the pieces of rep that we did at River North have influenced who I am today as an artist and educator. a performer. a notable piece that stands out to me as one of the works that we did in 2015. This is how my brain works. Like I work in years and semesters. So in spring of 2015, we had a guest artist come in Yvonne Perez, and he set his work Flesh, which was going to be a U.S. premiere for us. That was a work that I still hold near and dear. It was one of my most favorite pieces to perform, but more than just performing, it was a really great process that I was involved in. I was cast to do this duet, which I
00:19:16
Speaker
I really, really wanted this duet as everybody does. Right. But I was cast as the duet and I also got to perform it with one of my best friends, John Litzler at the time, he was also dancing in the company with me and we just had such a special bond and it just felt so natural to dance together. And I felt like our collaboration in terms of partnering was not seamless because it was still obviously a very challenging work to do, but we just worked so well together.
00:19:47
Speaker
yeah I just have very, very fond memories of that time that we spent in rehearsals. And so I really enjoyed working working in the process with Yvonne. And it was a contemporary work.
00:19:59
Speaker
And as I've noted, all of my training or the majority of my training was classical ballet. So this was a brand new way to work. I had to explore my body differently than...
00:20:11
Speaker
any other piece that I had performed before. at least that's how it felt to me at the time. I remember Yvonne really talking about this idea of hip plié. As a ballet dancer, you know, you're always taught, don't let your pelvis, don't spill water out the front, don't tuck in the back, just keep it neutral. And he kind of wanted me to get rid of that idea and just find this sort of like manipulation and this suppleness within my pelvis. And he would call it the hip plie.
00:20:39
Speaker
It really changed how I approached my technique and how I approached my artistry within that dance. And then it's something that I still carry on. As a teacher, especially when I'm doing contemporary work, I try to have my dancers embody those same concepts because it was really life-changing for me.
00:20:56
Speaker
Do you have a favorite role that you performed? oh my gosh. I think that's really hard to say. i have so many roles that I have enjoyed performing. Like I can think of so many roles with River North. I loved performing in Frank Chavez Habaneras, Music of Cuba.
00:21:13
Speaker
When I was in college, I got to perform so many Balanchine works, like we performed The Four Temperaments, Concerto Barocco, Chaipa, as I mentioned earlier. My junior year of college, we performed Serenade.
00:21:28
Speaker
Serenade, I think to me, I don't know if you've ever performed Serenade, I'm sure that you've seen it, but it's up here with one of my favorite ballets. It is just so aesthetically beautiful to watch the music.
00:21:40
Speaker
It is so ah challenging. The length of it is so long and the roles that I had within that were so challenging, but so rewarding. I feel like I was really well prepared in the rehearsal process and overall it was just a really great experience. And I love that ballet so much. So I would say that, yeah, all of those pieces, they're all all up there.
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Speaker
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00:23:04
Speaker
From River North, were you still with the company when it closed?
Impact of River North Closure
00:23:08
Speaker
I was, yes. So River North closed in October 3rd. See, I told you, I work in October 3rd, 2015 was our last performance and also our last day of work. That was a really sad time.
00:23:24
Speaker
for me and for everybody in the company and for Frank and everybody that was involved in River North. And I think honestly, the whole city of Chicago felt for us because there were some dancers that were in the company. They had been dancing with the company for 12 plus years. We had just celebrated the 25th anniversary the year before, or maybe two years before, but around that time. and It was just such a shock to us, I think, when it folded and none of us were prepared for it financially. None of us were prepared for it mentally, emotionally. It was a tough time. It was very sad.
00:23:59
Speaker
And I still think like, oh my gosh, I wish River North would come back. You know, i just think it was such a great company and it it fits so many dancers so well. As every company does, we really created such a small, special family together.
00:24:15
Speaker
so at that time, what did you do? Did you transition to another company or did you take a step back from dancing? Like what was that next step? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thinking back, I felt so lost at that time. i stayed in Chicago.
00:24:29
Speaker
you know, it was the first time in my life that I was not dancing every day once the company folded. and that was a hard pill to swallow because I'm sure that you experienced similar things when you transitioned out of performing, but I felt like I lost a huge part of my identity. And, oh, I just got the chills even when I said that, but and Yeah, it was...
00:24:54
Speaker
I felt lost and you know, I wasn't ready to leave Chicago because of so many reasons, but also it was mid season. It was October. i was putting the word out that I needed a job. And so I remember Laura Wade, who was a ballet mistress for us in river North. She knew that I had danced for the Rochester city ballet and could dance on point. And she said, Oh, there's this gentleman, Gordon Pierce Schmidt. He's looking for a ballet dancer. to do this new ballet that he's constructing. It's going to be performed at the Harris Theater in November, and they're looking for another ballet dancer. And I remember laughing to myself thinking, oh my gosh, I haven't done point work in five years. you know It was always my goal to keep up my point work, and then that, I just didn't. yeah I remember thinking, okay, I need a job and I'm gonna try this. So I reached out to Gordon and I think I sent him a video from my time with Rochester City Ballet, just to you know show him what kind of a dancer I was. And he said, great, I'll send somebody tomorrow to come watch class. Can you take this open class? And can you take it on point? And I remember thinking, um yes, can. I was like, yep I can do that. and I was terrified. So I slapped those boots on. i did bar on point. I remember I was in center doing a pique and it was like, whoa, you know, which is so funny because I grew up my whole, all of my training was in ballet and in point. And then it is like riding a bicycle in a sense, but it takes a little bit to get back into it. It changes your orientation being on point, but I must have showed potential because I ended up securing that job. So that was a nice, you know, a nice little segue after River North closed. I secured that short contract. It was a couple months contract. And I met a whole other bunch of dancers. There were a lot of former Joffrey dancers that were involved in that production. So it was a lot of fun to meet and dance with other like-minded artists in Chicago. And then from there, i started ah just auditioning everywhere. I danced with the Lyric Opera in Chicago. i did a couple of performances there and that kind of carried me in through to the spring. Once my lease was up at my apartment, I was reflecting and thinking, I'm
00:27:09
Speaker
Am I going to try to do another year here in Chicago, just doing this freelance work? Is this what's right for me? I discovered that it wasn't what was right for me at the time. i really liked the security of going to the same place every day. And in this new life that I was creating for myself, even though I was dancing with RPM Productions, which is the ballet company.
00:27:31
Speaker
that I was with after River North, in the back of my head, I'm thinking, okay, what's next? I was always worried about what was next because I wanted to still be dancing. i obviously had to pay bills and I was just trying to figure it all out. So that's when I decided in the spring of 2017, I think I've done this for a year and I'm good and I should try to maybe secure a company position. So I started auditioning more for company positions. I didn't get anything. And that was also really a challenging time in my life because I was just thinking,
00:28:02
Speaker
is this when I retire? Like, is this the end for me? I don't, I didn't really know. And I felt, again, just super lost. And that's actually what kind of pulled me into
Transition to Grad School and Teaching
00:28:13
Speaker
grad school.
00:28:13
Speaker
It was deeper and there was more, you know, interweaving and it was more complicated than that. But yeah, that's ultimately what led me into going to grad school. Did you ever think that you would go back to school before this time?
00:28:27
Speaker
It's hard to say. i remember when I was in undergrad, I remember looking at my faculty and thinking, wow, what a cool job. I remember thinking that could be something that I would be interested in way in the future. But I don't, I actually know at the time I wasn't ready to go back to school.
00:28:48
Speaker
because the day that I was leaving, my movers were coming to move me out of Chicago. And I had plans to move to Charlotte, North Carolina, because I had a bunch of sisters, or I do have a bunch of sisters. They all live there. and I remember thinking, okay, I would love to be closer to family. I'll move there. I'll have a nice security there. I was really interested in what Charlotte Ballet at the time was doing. And so I was just thinking, okay, i'll move to Charlotte. And then i hope that I auditioned and get a job with the company. So, I mean, very loose plans, but you know, it was a confusing time in my life. yeah But the day that the moving company was coming to Chicago to move me, I got a call from the director at the time of the school of dance at the university of Arizona. Jory Hancock. I hadn't talked to him in about 10 years.
00:29:38
Speaker
and So I was very surprised to be receiving this call. And I remember I was talking to him and I was looking out the window and the moving truck is pulling up. And he was like, he said to me, oh I heard that you're moving out of Chicago. what are your next steps?
00:29:52
Speaker
And so that opened the dialogue between us of what my next steps really were. And I didn't really have concrete next steps. And so he said, well, We actually need a teacher to come out and teach for the first two weeks of school this semester to teach ballet. And we're wondering, are you interested in that?
00:30:11
Speaker
And of course I was like, oh my gosh, I can't imagine anything better. I would love to come out and teach for the first two weeks. So they brought me out. I taught while I was out there.
00:30:22
Speaker
He said, oh, would you be interested and coming back and performing as a guest for us? And they were restaging this work that I had done in my undergrad, a piece that they choreographed, a duet, a paw. And I said, oh my gosh, sounds great. so They flew me back out for three more weeks. I rehearsed and I performed there as a guest, which was so fun.
00:30:44
Speaker
And it seemed like every time I went back out there, Jory would say to me, would you like to come back? And we also have this performance and we also have this. And then eventually it turned into, okay come out for the whole semester and you can teach as an adjunct professor and you can also perform and in these works. At the time, I was like, it didn't seem like there was anything more perfect because i was still able to so perform, which is what I really wanted to do. And I was teaching, yes, because I was also trying to build up that skill because I didn't have a ton of experience teaching up until then. But I was really loving all of the works that I was getting to do. We did a Dural Grand Moultrie piece. I did a Jessica Ling work.
00:31:26
Speaker
We did a Natto Diwato work. So of course, like he's saying all these things enticing me to come. And I was like, yes, yes, yes. Then when I was there for the full semester, he said, well, why don't you just, why don't you come for grad school?
00:31:39
Speaker
And I remember saying, no I remember saying, ah no, I'm not, no, it's it's not the right time. I still want to dance professionally. i don't want to I wasn't ready to go back to school.
00:31:50
Speaker
And he said, OK, well, keep thinking about it. You know, what I realize now is he was not taking no for an answer. It was just a matter of when I was going to say yes. And so eventually i decided that grad school was the right option for me and that I was going to give it a go because I realized that the program at the University of Arizona would still allow me to do all of that performing work. that was a huge pull for me. And then at the same time, i was not only going to be able to perform, but I was going to hone in on my pedagogy skills.
00:32:24
Speaker
And i was going to i was going to be forced into choreography, which at the time, scared me so much. I had never really choreographed anything in my life, you know, besides a few little things here and there for small competitions. Grad school is really where I first started choreographing and it was terrifying, but I'm so glad that i took that route because it taught me so much, not only about myself, the reason that I hadn't wanted to choreograph before was not because I didn't
00:33:00
Speaker
enjoy it It was because I was so scared of failing that I didn't want to put myself in that vulnerable state. And so I always shied away from it. And then I was forced to do it in grad school as part of the curriculum. And the first piece that I created was a duet.
00:33:18
Speaker
It was inspired by some experiences that I had lived through. And to me, it was a huge success. I remember I remember i showed it for the first time and in in a very informal setting where they pulled out the bleachers. It was just in one of our studios. And I remember sitting in the audience and my armpits started to sweat so bad. I had never been so nervous in my life. All the I've ever performed, like this was a different kind of nervousness. I just remember sitting there and I think I was shrinking down in my chair, just praying that it was well received. After they finished the duet, it was about, i think like seven minutes.
00:33:59
Speaker
I had never felt so proud of myself. Like, yes, it was well received by the people that were watching it, but I personally felt so proud of myself. for doing something that scared me so much. And I felt like I accomplished or I overcame a huge hurdle in my life. It kind of propelled me and gave me the confidence I think that I needed to continue doing that.
00:34:24
Speaker
That was super memorable in my experience. Yeah, grad school really gave me that. They gave me that safe space to be able to do that. Let's pause this episode and take a moment to talk about something that can feel incredibly complicated for aspiring dancers and artists, navigating the US visa process. Whether you need an O-1, P-1, or P-3 visa, having the right guidance is crucial.
00:34:51
Speaker
That's where BrandsLay comes in. They specialize in immigration law and helping performers like you navigate the visa process with ease. Brandlay understands the unique challenges and aspirations of ballet dancers seeking to pursue their dreams in a new country.
00:35:07
Speaker
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00:35:18
Speaker
With their expertise, you can rest easy knowing that you're getting the proper guidance you need to make your dreams a reality. I only recommend brands I know and love here on the podcast, and Brandlay is no exception.
00:35:31
Speaker
i have personally worked with Brandlay to secure a registered trademark for the Brainy Ballerina. i had no idea what I was doing or even where to start, but they made the entire process smooth and completely stress-free. Don't let Visa Confusion hold you back from your dance dreams. Head to the show notes or visit brandlay.com. That's B-R-A-N-D-L-L-E-T.com to learn more about how they can help you secure the opportunities you deserve.
00:35:59
Speaker
Now that you're on the other side and you're working with college dance students in that capacity, what do you enjoy most about teaching college students?
00:36:09
Speaker
Well, first of all, I think that I really enjoy teaching college at the collegiate level because I experienced it firsthand. And I had such an amazing experience, both in my undergrad and my graduate program.
00:36:25
Speaker
And I want dancers who are also going to receive their degree in dance. I want them to have just as amazing of a time or even more experience in their college setting. So I really try to create an environment that's safe and inclusive and encouraging, but still holding that bar high. I still, the bar is set high and I still want rigor and I want excellence, but I think that there's a way to find a balance between both of those worlds existing together.
00:36:57
Speaker
Something that I really love about the college level is that The majority of the time I'm not really teaching dancers how to dance from a beginning level. Sometimes I do, and I still enjoy that. But my true passion in teaching lies in the refinement of the technique and the artistry. So I love working with dancers to help take them to that next level of growth and maturity, really. to help them find those like light bulb moments that maybe finally click with them in a certain way, or
00:37:32
Speaker
trying to work with them with their limitations for their own body, because what works for me doesn't work for the dancer next to me and doesn't work for this dancer. And so trying to find and help them through how can this work for me and how does it serve me?
00:37:47
Speaker
I really try to have dancers see that ballet can serve them. I teach ballet primarily here at UNLV. And my goal is for everybody to love and ballet the way that I love ballet or just find their own love for ballet. Maybe it's a better way to say it because I truly don't believe that you can only love ballet and it can only serve you as a dancer. If you're going into a ballet focused profession or a ballet company or whatever that might be, there are so many different ways that ballet can serve everyone. And I love when students come into my class and they don't see that and then when they leave my class after a couple of years and they understand how ballet serves them and how it works for them and that you don't just have to love it if you're going into one of those ballet focused companies, that you can still love it and never dance in a ballet company in your life. That's what I really try to instill in my dancers.
00:38:50
Speaker
What do you think dance students, college dance students really need most right now? Is it different than what we needed when we i we both graduated in 2009 from college? How have times changed, do you think? Or do you think that the lessons are still really similar?
00:39:05
Speaker
Yes, of course, times have changed. And, you know, we we all lived through the the pandemic. And we were fortunate that we did not live through our college experience during the pandemic, but so many students did. And I won't say that there's pros to the pandemic, but I think it allowed us to take a moment to reflect and see what dancers really do need. And one thing that I think you would probably agree with is that like the social media of dance has really exploded. The technology of dance has really exploded. We all know that. And what we see online right now is all of these finished products.
00:39:43
Speaker
So we see the dancer posting their variation 18 pirouettes. I feel like dancers are literally doing 18 pirouettes these days. I don't know how, but they are. We see like all of these amazing things. We see all the end products and we don't see the work that goes into getting to those end products. And so I think if I could encourage dancers to value the process, that would be so beneficial to them because it is about the work.
00:40:19
Speaker
Day in and day out when you don't feel like doing it, when you don't want to do it when everything is working against you, like getting up and doing it over and the consistency of doing it over and over again and allowing yourself to experience the failures because you can't get to those 18 pirouettes without failing.
00:40:40
Speaker
Right. And that's a poor example, but you know what I mean? Like you have to experience the highs and the lows. You have to be willing to experiment. And most of all, you need patience with yourself. And I think that because of social media, we just think that it should happen like that, right? That we should work for ah couple of days and have X, Y, and Z, or we should work for a couple months and be able to do this, or we should work for a couple of years. And I think what we know and realize is that it is a whole lifetime journey of working in that capacity. Yeah, you really have to value and you have to love the process because if you don't love the process, I'm not saying every day you have to love the process, but you have to you have to find that value because if you don't, I don't think it's sustainable.
00:41:31
Speaker
oh You know? Yeah. What else are you hoping to instill in your students beyond the technique? And I know you mentioned the excellence, the rigor, all those things, but what other skills do you hope they take away from your class outside of all of that?
00:41:45
Speaker
Well, I think just dancers in general acquire a lot of skills that you can use in everyday life. It doesn't matter if you decide to dance professionally, or if you decide to go into an arts organization, or you decide to change gears completely and go to medical school or become a lawyer or whatever it is that you want to do. Dance teaches you, as we all know, it teaches you the discipline and the respect, and it gives you a work ethic. I've seen so many dancers, it doesn't matter what path they decide to go.
00:42:18
Speaker
They're all successful because they have this work ethic that I'm sure that it can be learned in other in other areas, but since I've only ever really danced, I can only speak to that. But yeah, I just think that it provides you so many great skills, life skills that you can take into any area of interest.
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah. Last question that I have for you. If you had to give aspiring pre-professional dancers one piece of advice as they first pursue their career, what would you tell them? I think it goes back to what I had mentioned earlier regarding the value of the process.
00:42:55
Speaker
And this is not my philosophy. This is something that was taught and shared with me is you have to do the work. If you day in and day out, do it, even when it's hard, even when you don't want to you will eventually reach goals that you've set for yourself. And you'll probably go even beyond those goals, right? If you if you set a goal one day for one thing, getting into X, Y, and Z company, along the way, you are going to tackle so many of those other small little goals that you maybe didn't even know were goals of yours. And what that's going to do is it's going to keep building like this foundation. And the more small goals you can accomplish, the more you become confident in yourself and in your abilities. And and you know that when things are hard, you can you can rise to the occasion. And if you got over something that happened last year that you thought that you were never going to succeed in this new challenge that's in your life right now, like, you know, that you can tackle it. It just helps to build your confidence. And I think that that's something that dancers really need to understand. i remember when I was in my twenties, you know, people are always saying like, Oh, you just, you need to be happy and you need to find what you love and you need to do all of these things. And it was like,
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah, I'm trying, but how? How do I? Like, what's the secret? I remember thinking like, can somebody just tell me like how to accomplish all of this stuff, how to discover who I am? And I think in my 30s, I've really realized that it's those small little goals that you set for yourself. And I'm talking about like setting a goal of, I don't know, getting up 10 minutes earlier, waking up exactly when your alarm goes off and not hitting snooze.
00:44:43
Speaker
or setting a goal of, you know, I'm going to eat healthy today. i'm going to fuel my body with sustainable nutrients and and then doing that. For me, it's Pilates. I love Pilates. So I'm going to get up and I'm going to do a 30 minute Pilates workout before my day and actually setting that goal and then accomplishing that. And I can't tell you like the more times throughout your day and throughout your weeks and your years that you can do that, the more confident you really become become because you're achieving all of this stuff and it's helping to build your confidence and it's helping to establish who you are as an individual, not just as an artist or a dancer, but just as a person.
00:45:24
Speaker
Yeah. Like doing what you say you're going to do. Yeah. Just doing it because it's so easy. I mean, We all know this, but as human beings, we want to take the path of least resistance. Right. And so I'm not saying that you always have to choose the the hard path, but like,
00:45:41
Speaker
Figure out what are three goals that you can set every day and then just accomplish those. Just do it. Yeah. I know. I've started saying to myself, I'm a person who does what they say they're going to do.
00:45:53
Speaker
So if I say that I'm going to like do this specific workout, I'm going to do it. And I remind myself that because I think it's so easy to to be reliable to everyone else and do the things you tell other people you're going to do.
00:46:05
Speaker
but not do the things that you tell yourself you're going to do because that falls to the back burner. And I've learned in my 30s too that like that will just keep happening. There's never going to come a day where you're less busy or it gets easier just to find the time. You have to actually like schedule it in and then do it. Yeah. And then like you said, the more you do that, the less you have to talk yourself into it because it's just instinctual that you do that all the time. it becomes a pattern.
00:46:31
Speaker
Somebody asked me the other day, how do you find motivation? how do you find motivation to to work out? And I was like, I don't think I do. i don't think I'm ever ah genuinely motivated. Maybe, i mean, maybe once in a blue moon, I'm like, ah, yes, I feel like I really want to work out today. You know, it usually happens on a Saturday when I have nothing else that I need to accomplish that day, or I just have much more free time and less responsibility, but on a day-to-day basis, like the motivation for me is just not there. And so knowing that if you're always waiting for motivation to do the hard things that you don't really want to do, you're probably never going to find it. Because I'm sure there are people out there that are super motivated every single day. I'm not one of them, but I know the reward for all of that. i know how I feel. I feel better when I do X, Y, and Z. And so I try to always just think about that.
00:47:28
Speaker
I want to feel this certain way. So what is the path that I need to take to get there? It's not laying in bed until 10 a.m. m Even though sometimes I need that, but on a day-to-day basis, again, it goes back to that work ethic, you know? Yeah. And like figuring out what you really want and then doing that.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah. And if you do the hard thing, then everything else in your life is going to get easier to do. And the things you really want to do are going to start happening. And that's such great advice, Haley. I love everything that you've shared today. This has been so much fun to chat with you. and if anyone who's listening wants to learn more about you and your work, where can they find you?
00:48:05
Speaker
i do have ah social media. My handle is my name at Haley Meyer on Instagram. That's my biggest thing. social media platform. I also have a website, hayleymeyer.com.
00:48:16
Speaker
I think that those are the two best ways to get in touch with me. I do want to say, Caitlin, I was a little bit nervous, I'm not going to lie, to have this interview. And I just want to say that you have made me feel so comfortable. I feel like it's just two girlfriends catching up after not talking with each other in so many years. Thank you for that. You've made me feel very comfortable and I appreciate it.
00:48:37
Speaker
Thank you for saying that. That means a lot because that's what I want the vibe to be, like just a casual coffee conversation. And and I've got my coffee. Yes. And I think ballet can get, you know, you can get stuffy and it can get hoity-toity. And I want it just to be like accessible. And totally I think as a dancer, I would have loved to hear these conversations when I was younger. i still do now, but especially as like a younger dancer, I would have just eaten that up hearing all these professional dancers share how they did what they did. And so that's what I hope to give to people. And I'm just really thankful for you.
00:49:10
Speaker
I love what you're doing with this podcast. I've been listening to episodes. I just listened to Autumn Ekman the other day. ah I obviously, you know, we have that. We all have that connection to Autumn. And so, yeah, i just think it's really awesome what you're doing because you're allowing people to have access to information that we didn't have as kids growing up. Right. And so what better time to do it now with the age of technology? And yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, we had our Point magazine and that was it.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yeah, totally. I got that the mail every month and I was like, read it cover to cover. and Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's how you found out about everything. Everything. i mean, we didn't even have social media until we went to school.
00:49:52
Speaker
Did you have where you had to have a college email address like to get Facebook for the first time? I mean, that was that was a time to be alive. Oh, yeah. We could really get in the weeds about that, but. Yeah, that would be ah that would be a whole separate podcast.
00:50:08
Speaker
Yeah. ah But thank you so much, Haley. I really appreciate you. i appreciate you too.
00:50:17
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:50:30
Speaker
By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus, your reigns help others discover the show too.
00:50:43
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Ballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.