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94. Life as a Pre-professional Dancer (and beyond!) with Tights Under
39 Plays3 hours ago
In this episode of The Brainy Ballerina Podcast, I’m joined by Natalie Bowman and LeeAnaca Moore, the creators behind Tights Under - a social media platform that began as a creative outlet during their time in the Professional Division at Pacific Northwest Ballet.
What started as a way to document the “in-between” stage of ballet life has grown into a beloved and refreshingly honest look at the realities of pursuing a professional ballet career (and beyond!).
Natalie and LeeAnaca share what pre-professional life is really like, how they navigated audition season, what surprised them most about dancing with a company, and how their friendship has supported them through every step of the transition into professional careers.
These two young women are wise beyond their years - this is an incredibly refreshing conversation showcasing a beautiful female friendship. You won’t be able to help but smile while tuning in.
Key Points in this Episode:
- What pre-professional ballet life really looks like
- What it’s like living inside the ballet bubble
- Navigating audition season and career uncertainty
- The beauty of having a close friendship to support you and give you perspective in a competitive industry
- The pressure, stress, and growth that occur while in a trainee program
- Building a ballet platform rooted in honesty, not perfection
Connect with Tights Under:
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/tights_under
TIKTOK: tiktok.com/@tightsunder
YOUTUBE: youtube.com/@tightsunder
Links and Resources:
SHOP Prima Club! theprimaclub.com (use code brainyballerina for 15% off all orders March 16-April 1, 2026)
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Authenticity
00:00:00
Speaker
What's been so nice about our page and our channel is we're very authentic on it. And people have really come to just like us, who we are. And we're not perfect people whatsoever. like me and Nat are very just real. The real side of ballet, like it's fun, but it's also a struggle. And there's so many depths and layers to what ballet is and what that is when it comes to it being your life.
00:00:29
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry.
00:00:45
Speaker
I'm peeling back the curtain of the professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Meet the Guests: Natalie and Leonica
00:01:03
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Natalie Bowman and Leonica Moore. Natalie and Leonica are the creators behind Tights Under, a platform they started to showcase their pre-professional life as dancers while in the PD program at Pacific Northwest Ballet.
00:01:21
Speaker
Leonica is currently an apprentice at PNB, and Natalie is in the second company at St. Louis Ballet, and they are continuing to share their journey as new professionals in the fields. We're going to learn so much from them today.
00:01:33
Speaker
But first, I'd love to hear from you. How did you two meet and how did Tights Under start? We initially met at TNB Summer Course, although we were in different classes, so we didn't really talk too much or hang out. But when we started the year as for professional division students at TNB, we were actually roommates and we just got super close, super fast and became really good friends. OK. And how did you decide to start a
The Birth of Tights Under
00:01:55
Speaker
social media platform? We were in the midst of our PD one year PNB and we were doing Kent Stoll's Swan Lake and just being first year students in the program, we were not selected to dance in the ballet, but because we were like covers, we still had to be at the theater just in case anything happened, even though we never were put in. So if something did happen, We were not good choices. So we were really bored, creatively bored, and we just wanted more of an outlet. So we decided, what if we started making videos about what we're doing right now, our journeys as pre-professional students right now, because we thought it was very niche. There wasn't a lot on social media. There's like a lot of student accounts and then there's professionals, but there was not a whole lot of media social what that in-between area was. How did you come up with a name Tights Under? So it started with six of us. So we were like post mostly on YouTube. I think it was like the day that we were just were like, let's start a YouTube. We like sat down in the coffee shop and we were like, okay, we're not going to leave until we have like a name for this project. I remember that. I remember that. We were just spitballing names. Yeah, we were totally just spitballing. It took us an hour and then... We came up with like some dumb ones, like tutus and satin and... No bad ideas. Yeah. But then I remember so vividly when we said heights under, everybody was like but like, yes, that's the name. what does it symbolize?
00:03:28
Speaker
Well, we had kind of like been using that phrase as like a joke throughout the entire year because it's like, oh, like you're students, you have to wear your tights under. Like it's it's like a rite of passage. And so we'd be in like company rehearsals and of course companies wearing free dress and we had to wear like black leotards with our tights under. So it'd be like, ah, tights under to your friends, you know? It's just like a joke that we've been saying and it just fits so perfectly with what we were showcasing at the time, which is just that like awkward kind of pre-professional
Life in the PD Program
00:03:54
Speaker
life. What did a typical day look like for you when you were in the PD program at Pacific Northwest Ballet? o
00:04:01
Speaker
but I actually have like a calendar day. i used to be in like, still kind of am very anal about my schedule. And so I have everything written down on my calendar, which is really funny. Our days varied a lot based on like what we were doing and how much we were working with the company. know, we had a class schedule that we would stick to if we didn't have company rehearsals. So it'd be like,
00:04:22
Speaker
8.30 a.m. m class, that was every day, and then followed by like either point class, variation, something like that, and then maybe a third class class and then if we didn't have rehearsals we would have second technique in the afterdo. Yeah throughout that that would be especially like in the springtime that would be filtered by like we would have lunch and then we would film things for tights under for us and then we would have like a next step rehearsal and then we would have a school performance rehearsal and then we would maybe have another rehearsal that was with the company.
00:04:53
Speaker
So a lot of times our second techniques got canceled because we just had so many rehearsals. What surprised you most about life in the PD program that you didn't really expect going in I think the biggest thing was how much of a bubble it is. i had kind of anticipated that and that's like partly what I was really excited for going.
00:05:10
Speaker
But it is so much of a bubble because it's like all your friends are all living in the same area. We're all like living with each other. And then We're just so invested in what we're doing that we're constantly talking about it. You know, if we're not dancing, we're watching PNB perform and we're we're talking about ballet. It's just, it's very much a bubble and there's so much growth that happens inside of that.
00:05:30
Speaker
But it can also be like a lot of times. I definitely agree with that statement. Obviously, growing up at home, like you would go and you would dance and then you would come home and then... that would kind of be off your mind a bit. Like there was no one else really who truly understood everything that you were going through.
00:05:46
Speaker
but when you come home to three other girls who are going through the exact same thing, it's so easy to just constantly talk about it and talk about our opinions and like debate what we think is true and what is not. So it really became a bubble. And then most of us didn't have cars moving to Seattle. So you really just kind of stay where, and Seattle's a pretty walkable city as well as commuting is not too bad with the buses here. So like you're seeing the same people all the time too. So yeah, it really is such... a bubble which comes like with a lot of growth. You learn so much about the dance world and about yourself as a dancer and that, but also it can be kind of overwhelming sometimes. Yeah, I think i would not anticipate how much growth I would have to do like outside of the studio because, okay, we're all like so much in the same boat. It's kind of like, how am I different than like my friends, you know? like
00:06:38
Speaker
i guess learning the social language is just typical for moving out or going to college for the first time. But like, i just wasn't expecting how to do so much to figure out like who I am as a person outside of the studio. Did you ever have to put a boundary on the dance talk at your apartment and be like, okay, now we're stopping talking about ballet and we're going to do something else.
00:06:57
Speaker
Absolutely. Definitely. I think we had to do that multiple times because sometimes when you are talking about ballet, like it just ends up being like a talking about people fest and not talking about like the art. So we had to be like, okay guys, we're done talking about ballet. We're done talking about people. Let's yeah move on to a conversation that's more life-giving. We always say that dancers love to complain. So it's like,
00:07:23
Speaker
a lot of that can just turn into like a complaining fest. And then like, all right, what are we grateful for today? Yes. Like, where's our gratitude? if you have to get it out, you have to, you know, air your grievances sometimes. But yeah, you have to come back to like, why do you love to dance? Why are you even doing this in the first place? because it's so hard. If you don't have that gratitude practice, it can get really heavy.
00:07:45
Speaker
yeah exactly. What's something that you think dancers romanticize about the pre pro life that isn't really true?
Challenges in Professional Ballet
00:07:53
Speaker
Oh, I definitely think dancing with the company is so romanticized. And that's kind of how they sell it to you. Like when you first get chosen to be a PD, they're like, oh, you're going to be dancing with the company and you're going to be doing all this rep. And this is the rep we're doing this season.
00:08:12
Speaker
but Unfortunately, there are so little spots that need to be filled in the rep. They have their company dancers and obviously all of them will have their places. And then they just need maybe four people to like fill in the rest of the spots. And a lot of the time it's the same people that get chosen over and over again, unfortunately. PNB, everyone does Nutcracker. Like that's guaranteed promise. But other than that, you're not guaranteed any other performances, especially with the company.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah, of course they tell you these things up front. It's like, is what the company doing, this is what you have a chance to be in, but that's not a guarantee. I would also say that also dancing with the company, but in the sense that company rehearsals as a PD are not easy at all. It's kind of like you're fighting for your life at all times. Yeah. I think that's something that I wasn't anticipating how hard it would be because rehearsals for me as a student before coming to P&B were always just super fun and like we're just figuring it out. Everything's super well rehearsed. We have so much time. We're working for months before like our spring show or whatever. At P&B, like sometimes it's French time. Sometimes it's like you're getting thrown into a spot. You've never rehearsed in the space. That kind of thing is just a level stress that I think I wasn't expecting. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:26
Speaker
It's a lot more stressed, especially when you're the student trainee person, when you're getting thrown in. It's a lot
Audition Support and Peer Encouragement
00:09:34
Speaker
of stress. Now that I'm in the company and I kind of like have a spot, you can mess up. It's fine. Like, it's totally fine. No one's going to come after you. But when you're like a student trainee person,
00:09:45
Speaker
That is like terrifying. How did you deal with that pressure? You just kind of do it. Yeah, you kind of have to just mind over batter sometimes. to be like I just have to get this done. Yeah. And it gets easier, right? Yeah, it definitely gets easier. Like, I think the worst thing you can do when you get put in that situation is be in your head like, oh my gosh, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know the steps. Stop thinking about that. Like, let's think about the steps. Let's think about the task at hand. it's kind of like that live in the moment mindset, but not like, oh my gosh, like this is so fun. Like, let's live in the moment. Let's lock in.
00:10:15
Speaker
Let's look at what we have to do. yeah And I always feel like I tell dancers in those moments too, when you're thrown into a new spot, the steps are obviously important, but honestly, more than anything, it's the spacing because you can mess up your step, but like you don't want to run someone over. So you want to make sure you are like in your spot more than anything. And then the rest you can figure out. Yeah. That's a really good advice. As you prepare to graduate from the PD program, how did you handle audition season and the uncertainty surrounding your next steps in the Valley world?
00:10:45
Speaker
It was hard. It was definitely hard. But P&B is a very good program for mentoring students through that process. So we had started thinking about it, our PD one year for sure, because we were still in those kind of like mentorship meetings where we were talking about auditions, even though it was geared towards the second year. So it was already very much in our minds by the end of our PD one year.
00:11:04
Speaker
And then we started like right out the gate PD2. You're like, God, our materials ready so fast or started so early, I should say. so yeah it was a lot of thinking about it and preparing for it for like over a long period of time.
00:11:15
Speaker
Yeah, I... commend P&B a lot for that. i know a lot of places, they don't have the resources that we had. Literally preparing us the year before that this is what you're going to have to do was so nice. That was really great information to know because i had never made an audition video before, an audition reel or a resume geared specifically towards getting a dance job.
00:11:37
Speaker
So that was like all really helpful information to know. And I'm just really thankful for the community that I had around me. Our class was so supportive of each other. When someone was down, they were there to like pick you back up. If we came into the room and it was just not a great day energy wise, or just everyone was feeling more down, like we would come in, we would play music. We were like, come on guys, let's just get today done.
00:12:04
Speaker
yeah How do you feel, like you just said, you really supported each other. Having the two of you having such a tight friendship, even beyond the community of all the PDs, how has the friendship between the two of you supported this transition? And has having each other changed the way you experience the ballet industry?
00:12:21
Speaker
For me, it's been so nice to have... just a look into another life because from where you're standing, the grass is always greener on the other side. So it's been so nice to just have Nat to give me some perspective a lot of the time. And it's also been so nice to have someone to vent to because a lot of my friends,
00:12:43
Speaker
are also dancers at PNB. And sometimes you need to get something off your chest and it can't be like getting around at like your now workplace, even though those are your friends, there's some things you just like, you got to separate. So it's it's been so nice having that. She like knows everyone at PNB. She knows kind of how PNB works. So it's been so nice to have her to just like get things off my chest and give me some perspective as well now that she's somewhere else that has just like a different culture than PNV does. What would you say Nat? I would definitely agree with that. Through the audition process it was kind of that same thing. At some point it was like clear that we were going on like different paths and like it was very nice because there is a lot of I don't want to say like taboo but like
00:13:29
Speaker
sometimes people are don't want to talk about their auditions and like what acceptance they've
Career Moves and Personal Growth
00:13:34
Speaker
got. Like, is that because it's just such a tense topic and we're all... essentially fighting for the same positions. So it was nice to to be able to speak so freely to someone about how my offers are going and like how my auditions are going without having to worry about hurting feelings. Was it scary to be pursuing jobs in different cities and companies after forming such a tight bond together?
00:13:55
Speaker
yeah I wouldn't say it was scary for me just because i knew very soon, very early that I was going to be staying at PNB. It was definitely sad, though. We created such an amazing group and community here at PNB with just all of our friends who were in the PD program with us that year.
00:14:14
Speaker
So it was really sad to have to let that go. i was like, I want to dance with these people for the rest of my life. Like, I want this to be my ballet company. Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely sad. I think pursuing jobs in different cities felt very right for both of us, just in our own path. So like, that was not scary. I was excited to go somewhere new and experience like a different environment stuff and excited to keep our friendship alive, I guess, through all of that. And like, just so much more to talk about and reflect on. Yeah, I think as dancers, once you decide that you're going to pursue this career, you know that you can't stay
00:14:48
Speaker
wherever like if i grew up in jacksonville florida and that's not like dancing is not if you're not playing golf if you're not hitting a ball like they do not care so i knew from like a very young age if i wanted to pursue dancing that i was going to have to move to a bigger city that appreciated art more so i think anyone who is younger and who wants to pursue dancing knows from a very young age that you are going to have to move away mm-hmm Let's take a quick pause so I can tell you about one of my favorite dancer-founded brands, Prima Club.
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Content Creation and Community Building
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Speaker
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00:16:31
Speaker
As content creators for tights under, I'm curious how you come up with ideas that you want to share. I know you mentioned you want to share this journey. So that but also like the nitty gritty, how are you coming up with content ideas or funny videos or like what's that brainstorming process almost? Honestly, I feel like a lot of the times it's very like natural and like sometimes we have like too many ideas.
00:16:52
Speaker
Of course, there's like dry spell where like, oh, there's no interesting trends happening right now. Like there's nothing we can post about. But There's so much on the internet to take like inspiration from and like put your own twist on. Yeah, I'd say that's what we do a lot.
00:17:06
Speaker
We definitely like to follow the trends for just pushing our content out there. But yeah, we definitely make a lot of videos that maybe we wish we had when we were growing up.
00:17:18
Speaker
or just whatever our followers. We do like a lot of polls on our story. Like, oh, what do you guys want to see from us? People really just want to see like day in the life kind of content. What's this routine? What's that routine? What's it like backstage? How do you do your makeup?
00:17:32
Speaker
Things like that. Do you have roles within Tightshunter? Like does one of you do the editing one kind of like, how do you divide up those responsibilities, especially now that you're in separate cities?
00:17:42
Speaker
Yeah, I run the Instagram. He runs the TikTok. Lisa's are doing emails and yeah, I do like DMs and stuff. Editing is pretty split. We like kind of rotate. I'll do a video one day and then she'll do a video the next day. So. If we have like an idea that we're like both in, if it's my idea, usually I'll edit it. Same with YouTube. Yeah, it's pretty evenly split. And it's really nice to have another person. Some people are like, oh, how do you guys do it together? I'm like, I don't get how people do it by themselves. Because one, we're so busy. We are full time dancers now. So that takes up most of our time. And so when I'm like really busy, like I just got done doing Cinderella, like Nat picked up a lot of the slack where I had it.
00:18:26
Speaker
um And then when Nat is busy, like, it's nice that like I can pick up. It's never like an animosity thing towards the other person or whenever like, she's not giving me videos. No, it honestly works out so nicely. Like when she kind of has a dry spell, like sometimes I have like lots of ideas and vice versa. Yeah. How do you decide what It's too personal to share. What line do you draw? i would say our content is very ballet based. That's what our platform is for.
00:18:55
Speaker
So if It's not about ballet. I would say we most likely are not posting about it There's little snippets of our everyday life that kind of get in there. If we have family who's visiting or we're doing kind of like a what I do on my day off sort of video, i would say like little snippets of our life do peek in but we're not actively putting out anything that's not typically related to ballet or our journeys in it. One boundary that I think we set pretty quickly is we're not going to share any food related content of what we eat in day. There's too much of that on the internet already. We're not nutritionists. We eat different things every single day. Like it doesn't make sense. And we just, we don't really want to contribute to that side of internet culture, I guess.
00:19:43
Speaker
So that's a boundary that we have. so Have you had buy-in from p nv and St. Louis Ballet? Are there any contract stipulations about like where you can film, what you can film, what you can share? There hasn't been anything in writing, I'll say.
00:19:59
Speaker
In a few meetings, like especially when I was first joining the company, they mentioned it. And they were like, oh, it looks really good. it shows PNB in a great light. Just make sure you're asking people for permission to film and to have them in the back of your videos and make sure that people who don't want to be filmed aren't in the back of your videos and just keep showing PNB in a good light. Yeah. I just think St. Louis was a little different just because they are a smaller companies. So it's like their social media kind of has to be more strict, I guess.
00:20:29
Speaker
So I'm not able to film as much backstage as I was at PNB, which is a little bit hard, but just figuring out how to navigate that. But yeah, everyone's had great feedback. Do you feel pressure to show up perfectly online? I feel like your content is really showing like the good and the bad. You really balance both of that. But do you ever feel like, oh, we need to curate this or this video isn't good enough? Or do you have those thoughts?
00:20:53
Speaker
Honestly, not really. just personally, i think what's been so nice about our page and our channel is just We're very authentic on it and people have really come to just like us, who we are. And we're not perfect people whatsoever. like me and Nat are very just real. And so it's been so nice that we don't have to like come across as perfect. We're not like this clean girl, ballet core, like a singer. aesthetic. We can be, and we totally have those moments, but we're definitely more like the real side of ballet. Like it's fun, but it's also a struggle. And there's so many depths and layers to what ballet is and what that is when it comes to it being your life.
00:21:40
Speaker
So I definitely don't ever feel pressure to like show up perfectly. i might spend a couple extra hours on a video if I'm like, I really want it to be funny and it's not funny yet. But other than that, no. Yeah, I think we have high standards for the content we're putting outside. We want it to be good because we're trying to, you know, grow kind of our brand and like, yeah, we just want to be good. I think the only time I would feel pressured for things to be like perfect or some type of way is my own dancing.
00:22:08
Speaker
And that's just for my own ego. You know, it's like that is my art form. Like that is my craft. If I don't like how it looks, I'm going to refilm it and talk, you know, but that's worth for myself, I would say.
00:22:18
Speaker
Well, and it's so funny because I've been retired now for almost eight years, I think. And I look at some pictures or videos that at the time I thought were like way too bad to share or not good. And now I look at them this far off of my career and I'm like, what was I thinking? Like, that was amazing that I could do that. I could never do that now. So I feel like there's so much pressure we put on ourselves. And when you look at it, like later in your life, you're going to be like, what was I thinking? That was so good. Yeah. Yeah, there was like literally like yesterday I was like editing a video or I was I made a video and then I was like, I know I can't edit this right after you're making it. Let me like wait a couple days and then edit it because I'm like, otherwise it's not going out there. Yeah, sometimes you're just too close to it. That's so true.
00:22:59
Speaker
Yes, there is this one video that we just recently made. We were guessing ballet variations. I love that. I love that. We were thinking about technique or doing good ballet at the time. heard off I forgot that we were filming, honestly. it was fun.
00:23:19
Speaker
But that's what's so great about your content is that like it doesn't look like you're performing. It is literally like you forget that you're filming and you're just hanging out and working to see two great friends just like have fun together. And I think that is something that is missing from the online space in the dance world. And that's why your content is so loved because we just get to see like a true beautiful female friendship and just having fun and being like, hey, we love ballet and we're really serious about it, but it's not always that serious. Literally, it's not. That's why I'm also kind of grateful we didn't end up at the same place because there can be so much competition within people, especially when you're both starting out and you there's a lot of comparison a lot of the time. I'm low key grateful. Like I miss Nat and I want her to come back so bad.
00:24:06
Speaker
But it is kind of nice to just really be able to be on our own journeys and be our own persons. Yeah. And it just gives us so much perspective too. hmm. Yeah. Like sometimes i'll be like, oh, we're doing this and this and that. And I want to like do the rep you're doing. And you're like, okay, well, like these rehearsals are not i all they're cut out to be Yes. Yeah. There's, you see the final product on the stage, but you don't see all that goes behind the scenes when it comes to that. So it's so true. Having that perspective is really key in a Valley career. Did either of you feel like having an online presence affected you as you were pursuing contracts, either in a negative or a positive way? No. I would say no.
00:24:46
Speaker
Not at all, honestly. They almost didn't know about it. they over the Yeah, and they just almost didn't know about it. It's funny. I feel like in like the commercial dance world, there's a lot of talk about like you have to have an online presence, how many followers you have, can help you book jobs from the ballet world. It's so, we're in a bit behind the times when it comes to social media.
00:25:05
Speaker
Ballet in general is a bit behind the times, mostly. And I think just a lot of people in power, people at the front of the room are a bit on the older side. So they don't really do social media, as it is so present in our everyday life these days. hmm.
00:25:24
Speaker
The only thing about like social media during audition season was going to audition. I hadn't really thought about it before like my first audition, but it's like I go and people are like, oh, you're the girl from Sides Under. And it's like, oh, wait, I forget that like people won't know who I am, you know? yeah yeah Yeah. People will do that to me too. Like be like, oh, you're the Brady Ballerina. I'm like,
00:25:41
Speaker
You're like, oh, yeah, know. It took me, you know? But it's like, yeah, people, like, see you and you forget that they know you on this level that you don't know them, right? Like, they really do feel like they know you very personally, but you haven't met them yet.
00:25:55
Speaker
So it's interesting dynamic. Definitely. Like, yeah. Like, when i I meet people these days, they'll be like, oh, like, hi to, like, officially meet you. I'm like, oh, gosh, I hate that.
00:26:06
Speaker
Yeah. They have so much love and respect for what you do. And so they're just so excited. But it is such an interesting dynamic because it's like there feels like there's a friendship. And there could be but like not yet. You haven't met each other yet. So it's just an interesting world to be in when you're had this really out there online presence.
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, it is nice because me and Nat both have very big personalities. so it is nice when people are like oh to officially meet you it's like okay like you kind of already know what all this is so i can kind of truly feel like i can be myself more right away when i first meet people if they do know what tights under is yeah i also definitely do feel like kind of that friendship connection with like our followers because We get so many like DMs and like people like swiping up on stories, whether it's just like, oh, that was so funny or just, hey, you have advice on this stuff? And I feel like I always try to respond how I would to my friends, you know? And so like, it does kind of form this like online friendship.
00:27:03
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah. Matt does like such a great job with the Instagram DM. She's so on it, answers people like almost immediately. If you send a DM in a day, it'll most likely get answered that same day. Yes, I can vouch for that. on a good day. I really have truly made some very good friends from being online. And that is very real. And it's sometimes strange because...
00:27:28
Speaker
thereinette can feel almost not real in a sense in certain ways. Like you're like, i need to go back to my real life. But I have actually made really amazing friends online that I would have never met if I hadn't had this online presence. So it's very cool the connections you can make and the people you can get to know through this kind of platform.
Monetization and Brand Partnerships
00:27:45
Speaker
And it's so true. Like you really do build a true community.
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah. And another thing too, is that it's not just random people. It's all people that are part of the world that we're so in. Like the value world is small. And like some of these people i'm running into at auditions, at summer courses, stuff like that. Yeah. And now you have this network of people that you can even turn to with questions you have about different companies or programs or like you have this support system built in now, which is so incredible, especially as you're at this stage in your career.
00:28:13
Speaker
yeah Yeah. As dancers, I know a lot of us are looking for side hustles. So have you been able to monetize tights under to help support you? And if so, how have you done that? Yeah, we've been able to monetize it a bit, especially recently, which has been so nice.
00:28:28
Speaker
We were on the TikTok creator fund for a little bit, but we found that that was kind of messing with our views and it it wasn't really worth the money so we got off of that and we've been able to make a bit of money off of just working with brands who have reached out to us and making video content for their products can you share some of the brands that you've worked with yeah we've worked with discount dance joy through dance have a dance and also or the brand we love their shoes
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah, there's a couple more that are currently in the works. Do you have like a very official document that you send to brands that like you work through things? Do you have pricing? Like how official is this whole behind the scenes operation? Or is it still kind of figuring out and just negotiating with each brand as it comes through?
00:29:18
Speaker
I think in recent deals that we've been making, it's been very official. There have been contracts signed. And at first we were kind of just working with brands on like gift based criteria, just being like they send us their product and we send them the video about it.
00:29:35
Speaker
Recently, we've been trying to also get paid for that. We just know that what we do is a lot of work Not everyone can do it. And we are like essentially selling something to our followers. There's a price that that comes with. And we just know that like, yeah, in recent time now, we want to be paid, compensated for our work, not just with things, you know?
00:29:59
Speaker
So we've been trying to like embark on that a little bit more. And so, yeah, we have like rates for different things. You know, if you want something posted on Instagram and TikTok, that's a separate price. Those are two separate platforms that length of the video, how long they can then use the video for.
00:30:14
Speaker
We have guidelines on all of that. Yeah. The compensation is course covering the work of creating the video and editing the stuff, but it's also just being compensated for a platform that we've created and put so much time and effort into and also just use of our images because that's so important in the dance world, I feel like.
00:30:33
Speaker
How do you choose which brands that you want to work with? I would say normally most brands reach out to us. And obviously if there's excitement, we're like, oh, we want to work with them. If they don't have anything to do with dance, we're obviously not working with them. We've had some random brands, like sometimes jewelry brands reach out to us. We do not need my jewelry. I have too much jewelry. Like I don't need any more.
00:30:58
Speaker
Sometimes workout brands will reach out to us or even sports. ah body care brands will reach out to us and we'll kind of go over and see like would we actually like these products would we show them in our everyday life would we use them in our everyday life we're not just trying to sell random things we want to sell things that we actually love and think our followers would love so if it doesn't match our lives we kind of are like okay no And also i feel like there's so much waste that comes with PR and just like sending things that we don't need. It's definitely a priority if a brand is willing to send us things that we want, you know, it's like, okay, pick something up for our website so that you can advertise it. That is ideal situation because it's like, if you're just sending me
00:31:44
Speaker
a leotard that you are able to send me, it's like, I might not even wear that. That's just wasteful.
Future Plans and Mentorship
00:31:50
Speaker
What's the five-year, 10-year plan for tights under? Where do you see this platform going? I definitely want to be able to create something that's more on the lines of like a service or a product that we can offer to our followers. Right now, it's very much just like entertainment. Which is a service. People want to be entertained. So don't just count the fact that you are providing a service for sure. Yeah, I would love to grow.
00:32:11
Speaker
do you have any thoughts about what that might look like? We've been talking about maybe starting a podcast as well. There's so many topics that we are so opinionated on and we would love just more time to be able to talk about them. We sit on the phone. We have like business calls that just end up being yap sessions between us by the end of it. and we're always like, oh my gosh, like we just need a podcast because...
00:32:38
Speaker
This is so just interesting to hear about, hear people's opinions about such big topics in the dance world. So we definitely want to turn it into like a podcast. And we would love to like speak on panels, like at competitions, just giving like advice to dancers and showing how you can get to the same place with so many different trajectories. Like there is no one way to... get to where you want to be. And yeah, just like giving more of our experience and just helping the youth. I think we're both really passionate about younger dancers and giving them what we wish we had when we were that age.
00:33:13
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think something along the lines of that kind of advice service or even like coaching, although we're still like very young and there's so much more to learn. I love teaching. We both love kids. Yeah. Do you guys listen to the podcast Giggly Squad? No. Okay. I feel like you should listen to it, but I think you'd be like the ballet world version of Giggly Squad.
00:33:33
Speaker
Like I could just see it. I'm literally looking this up. Yes. Once you listen to it, you're going to be like, yeah, that's us, but ballet. Okay. So I'm excited for the release of the Tite Center podcast. I'm going to be waiting because I think that would be an amazing thing for you guys. And you are so natural about what you talk about and you're so honest.
Advice for Aspiring Dancers
00:33:52
Speaker
And I think that's really hard to come by because a lot of people are really fearful of being honest in the ballet world for fear of repercussion or that like there's all this like hush hush about it and I love that your generation especially like I'm a millennial so we're kind of trying to tiptoe in but I feel like your generation is really going to change the narrative around what we can talk about what we say and the honesty we have in the ballet world yeah what would you tell the dancers who are considering sharing more of their behind the scenes life online if they wanted to start something like tights under oh i would definitely say be authentic and
00:34:30
Speaker
Don't try and be anyone else. You simply can't. It's so much work to try and be someone else. So definitely be super authentic. And to really grow a platform, you kind of have to be like following the trends a little bit to get your content pushed out there. But don't forget to also make content for the people who do love you. Like that's how you create a community and a brand is you make content to get more followers, but then you're also creating content for the followers that you have. I would say don't overshare. If you're feeling a little bit uncomfortable about posting something, chances are a lot of people are going to see that. And like, even if they don't feel some type of way about it, like you're going to feel that.
00:35:12
Speaker
And just, I don't know I feel like that can like build up if you're posting things that you're not actually happy about. No pressure to overshare. There's so much on the internet already. And we don't need to see every second of your life. You can just focus on things that you are really excited about sharing.
00:35:24
Speaker
Yeah, this is a similar question. But the last question I have for you both that I love to ask all my guests is if you had to give dancers who are pursuing a professional career, one piece of advice, what would you tell them?
00:35:36
Speaker
I would honestly just say work hard now on not comparing yourself to other people. I did that a lot when I came to PNB. And it's kind of a hard habit to break once you have it. Remember that you're an individual. We were made to contrast. We were not made to all look the same, to dance the same, to be the same at all. We were simply made to contrast, to be different people.
00:36:00
Speaker
So find what makes you different and embark on that so much. Like everyone's always like, oh, like I'm a turner, I'm a jumper, whatever. Find out what you're good at and be great at it. Be good at everything else, but then also be great at what you're good at. I love that. What would you say, Natalie? I would say you can work hard without stressing. Working hard and being stressed all the time are not one and the same. like You can work hard and not tear yourself down all the time. You can be confident and still be humble. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
00:36:34
Speaker
And finding that balance, that sweet spot is really special. yeah Yeah, that's so good. I feel like a lot of people feel like if you do like a performance and you know you made a few mistakes, you can still be so happy with that. You don't have to be constantly tearing yourself down and saying that you could have done better for you to be like satisfied with your work.
00:36:57
Speaker
How many things did you do right in that performance, right? Like we focus on the one time you're out of line or the one pirouette that you like put your heel down early or something. But there's two hours of a performance that you did amazing. And I get that because, you know, as dancers, we're kind of, we get corrections constantly. So that becomes our internal narrative, the corrections. No one's telling you every time you do something good. But if you get so bogged down by that, those little mistakes, it can really just like...
00:37:25
Speaker
ruin a performance for you and the audience never knows exactly feel like I've been seeing friends lately that are like I hate these friends when they're like me when I'm doing good then it's like me when I'm doing bad like you're a failure you're like a loser like all this stuff and I was like I hate seeing those videos because I'm like Oh, like, I know it's a little bit funny, but no, like, we do not want to be thinking that way.
00:37:47
Speaker
yeah Yeah, exactly. The two things can coexist. You can continue working hard, like you were saying that, but also be satisfied with your work as well and know that you did well. And I would say as a dancer, you know, who's approaching 40, like on the other side of my career, i wouldn't say that you just can do those things. I would say you must do those things. If you do not find a way to let those two things coexist, you're not going to have the longevity or the joy in your career that you want to have. You have to find a way to let the little things go while still pursuing the excellence because that's how you're going to make a happy, you joyful career. So I think that you guys are on the right track and you are, yeah, you're doing amazing. At the end the day, like, what's it all for then? Like, if you're not happy and you're not satisfied, what did you do it all for? Yeah. No one else really cares. Yeah. And it's too much work. It's too much sacrifice to not enjoy what you're doing, right? This has been so fun, you guys. i really loved hearing your story. It was just like such fun chatting with you. If anyone listening wants to learn more about you or Tights Under, where can we find you?
00:38:51
Speaker
Instagram and TikTok, at Tights Under. also YouTube. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. i know that you have to get to the theater, Natalie, and you guys have a busy day ahead. So I'll let you go. But thank you so much for this conversation. thank you so much.
00:39:10
Speaker
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00:39:23
Speaker
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00:39:36
Speaker
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