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99. A Decade as Artistic Director of EMERGE125 with Tiffany Rea-Fisher
142 Plays17 days ago
This week on The Brainy Ballerina Podcast, I’m joined by the incredible Tiffany Rea-Fisher: Artistic Director of EMERGE125, award-winning choreographer, and a true force in the dance world.
Tiffany shares her journey from growing up as a competition kid on the West Coast, to discovering modern dance at SUNY Purchase, and now celebrating her 10th season leading EMERGE125, a contemporary modern dance company in New York City.
Tiffany’s perspective on leadership, from servant leadership to a more collaborative, transformative model, is something every dancer (and human!) can learn from. I am incredibly inspired by the way she builds a company culture rooted in both rigor and joy, where dancers feel seen, valued, and empowered to bring their full selves into the room.
Key "Pointes" from this Episode:
- What Tiffany looks for when hiring dancers
- Her concept of “disruption through inclusion” and why diversity is a creative superpower
- The role artists play in shaping culture and reminding us to be brave
- How motherhood has influenced her leadership style and boundaries
- Building a financially sustainable arts organization through challenging times
- Why community is the key to longevity in the dance industry
Connect with Tiffany:
EMERGE125 WEBSITE: https://emerge125.org/
EMERGE125 INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/emerge125/
TIFFANY INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/treafisher/
Links and Resources:
ORZA: Use code ‘BRAINYBALLERINA’ for 10% off: https://orzabrand.com/
Complimentary Career Mentoring Consultation: https://www.thebrainyballerina.com/career-mentoring
Let’s connect!
MY WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Schedule your complimentary career consultation: https://www.thebrainyballerina.com/career-mentoring
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
This episode was brought to you by the Pivot Ball Change Network.
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Transcript
Introduction to Brand New Ballerina
00:00:00
Speaker
And two, just what we do, as you know, it just takes also a huge leap of faith. Like you have to just kind of dive in feet first and trust in yourself, trust in your training, trust in your craft and your hard work that you are ready because there's no handbook. And I feel like a lot of young people coming up kind of want the handbook. And I'm always like, there isn't one, but you can make your own. And that's really, i think, really exciting. And that's where all of the magic and creativity happens.
00:00:31
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brain y Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry.
00:00:47
Speaker
I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Guest Introduction: Tiffany Rae Fisher
00:01:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Tiffany Rae Fisher. Tiffany is the artistic director of Emerge 125.
00:01:17
Speaker
She's an award-winning choreographer and cultural leader whose work spans dance, theater, and community activism. Tiffany is a National Dance Project Awardee, a Toulman Fellow, and has been recognized by the City of New York for her cultural contributions. Tiffany, I am so excited to learn more about you today. To start, I would love to hear why did you take your very first dance class?
Tiffany's Dance Journey Begins
00:01:42
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Caitlin, for having me. I'm a big fan and I've been looking forward to this all day. So very excited to be here. My first dance class happened because my mom put me in dance. She, apparently the story goes that I was not terribly rhythmic when I was little. And MTV was a big thing when I was little. And I guess I was dancing along to a music video. And my parents, who are both very cool, were like, this will not stand. So we need to get her in dance class immediately.
00:02:12
Speaker
And I loved it. It was a life changing experience for me. What was your training like growing up once you started taking dance seriously? You know, I started when I was three, so I did the combo classes. You know they have like half ballet, half tap, half jazz, half like gymnastics. But I grew up as a West Coast competition kid, so I got into like really like I was deep in it with all of the, you know, the regionals and the jackets and the stuff and things. So it was really amazing. I did not discover modern dance until college. So I had no idea what that was. So I had a lot of catching up to do. I actually thought I was going to be a tapper when I was younger. And it's still very much a passion of mine. But modern dance really was the game changer for me.
College Days and Career Shaping Moments
00:03:01
Speaker
Where did you go to college and how did you choose a modern dance program after having a sort of different training growing up? Well, one of my friends,
00:03:12
Speaker
mom at yeah at my dance studio, really, like she was very knowledgeable about things and told my mom, I think Tiffany's good enough to get into a conservatory. And I was like, what is this word? I didn't know what a conservatory was. i was like, what is this? And, you know, I think Caitlin, I really didn't understand that you could go to college for dance. Like I didn't get that. I didn't understand. So that was like a whole...
00:03:35
Speaker
New world for me. i was like, oh, my God, this won't have to just be like the side thing. I can focus on this and kind of deepen. And that was really exciting. But then I had a really terrible knee injury. And so I missed like every audition for all the schools that we had lined up. But there was one audition left and it was for my first choice school, which was SUNY Purchase, but I had to fly to New York because I had already missed the West Coast auditions. I had to do the entire audition in attitude because my my knee still couldn't straighten. And my mom you know had been on the phone with the administration and kind of explaining the situation, but it was like my last
00:04:13
Speaker
ditch effort to be able to get into a school that year. And I found out that day that I got in with the scholarship. It was really a miracle. How did that college experience prepare you for your professional career?
00:04:26
Speaker
I mean, it changed my life. So many of my college professors played such a huge role in my professional life. My very first job was with Kevin Nguyen, and he was a professor of mine. And I got to perform at Lincoln Center, like right out the gate, which was really incredible.
00:04:42
Speaker
Michael Blake, who was a professor of mine, he got me my first teaching job at Joffrey Ballet. I mean, they really, the network that Purchase was able to provide and the support, my professors really believed in me. Like Stephanie Tumann, like we still talk.
00:04:59
Speaker
quite a bit. And the purchase network is really, really strong. And I try to hire purchase alumni too. you know I'm open to everyone, of course, but there is something about knowing what that experience is. And we really try to look out for
Creating a Path in Dance
00:05:14
Speaker
each other. And so I know that there's a lot of of talk right now feeling like maybe that dancers aren't prepared for the you know professional world, but one, it's hard for institutions to prepare you for every scenario out there.
00:05:29
Speaker
And two, just what we do, as you know, it just takes also a huge leap of faith. Like you have to just kind of dive in feet first and trust in yourself, trust in your training, trust in your craft and your hard work that you are ready because there's no handbook. And I feel like a lot of young people coming up kind of want the handbook. And I've always like, there isn't one, but you can make your own. And that's really, i think, really exciting. And that's where all of the magic and creativity happens.
00:05:59
Speaker
What was your transition to a professional career like? How did that go for you? I am a very slow processor, so I was probably on like my third professional gig before I understood that I was a dancer. like I was like, oh, wait, I'm not waiting tables anymore. Oh, wait, I'm not teaching Pilates anymore. like I'm just dancing all day. and I was like, oh, am sustaining myself as a dancer. I'm like, I think I might be a dancer. It was interesting. And I think because I like to really just be a place of yes, I wasn't a dancer because I didn't know. oh I didn't even know you could have this career. So many of the titles and jobs that I had, I didn't even know existed. I didn't know those words when I was younger. So it wasn't like i
00:06:40
Speaker
grew up being like, I'm going to be in this company, I'm going to do this thing. I just stayed open and I kept finding projects that challenged me and choreographers that challenged me, work that I really liked. And I just kind of wanted to stay open. And so that led to dancing all over the world.
Professional Growth and Touring Experiences
00:06:59
Speaker
it led to dancing with a lot of different choreographers and also being able to have these life experiences that I pull on for myself, for my own choreography, now, which is just really a gift.
00:07:11
Speaker
But I honestly had no idea what I was doing happily. And I'm glad that I didn't because it actually allowed me to enjoy the situation versus being like, oh, I should be doing this or I should be over here. i was just like, this is great. I've always dreamed of living in New York City and I'm dancing in New York City. I was like, this is amazing. So I was very happy.
00:07:32
Speaker
Do you have some really defining moments from your performance career that shaped who you are as a leader and as a choreographer now? Yeah, I mean, I think that my first tour, I had a six-week tour in Brazil. There was something about that culture and we went all over the country and getting to see how different the North and South were. And just that was the first time that something felt really beautifully foreign and familiar and home-like at the same time because their transit system is like very similar to New York. but Portuguese, you know, it's not Spanish. You know, it it hits the year totally differently, but it was so culturally rich and the audiences appreciated the arts and you could feel it. It was a palpable experience and it was the first time that I had earned enough money that I brought my mom with me. and It was of her first time coming out of the country. So our tour started and ended in Rio.
00:08:32
Speaker
And so when we came back to Rio, I'd gotten my mom tickets for that closing night so that she met me in Rio. And then her and I stayed in Brazil for another week, just having like mother daughter time. And it was just really incredible. But it was the first time I think that I really understood I could sustain myself and give back to someone who, you know, my mom,
00:08:55
Speaker
sacrificed so much so that I could go to this dance class and this competition and, you know, just all the things that parents do for their kids who are interested in this craft. It's a lot.
00:09:06
Speaker
Like, it's really a lot. Every weekend I was at a competition. So It really felt good to be able to say, come join me and like benefit of the fruits of your labor. And, you know, to perform on that stage for my mom and to be able to pay for her ticket really was like I was feeling i was so proud. I think that was the first time that I felt really proud to be an artist like that.
Leadership and Company Culture
00:09:32
Speaker
You've now been artistic director of Emerge 125 for 10 years. I know, it's crazy. How do you feel like the company has evolved since your first season as director to now?
00:09:45
Speaker
I mean, a lot. I think we've had a lot of changes within the company, like culturally. i think it was important for me. You know, when I was a dancer,
00:09:56
Speaker
I always, i was a very observant person, just in general. I don't tend to be the person like speaks first or whatever. Like I'm not quiet, but I do like to observe because that's how I get my information. And as I was working with different directors, I kind of noted the things that made me feel really good and made me feel solid and kind of pushed me in my artistry. And I also noted the things that like would shut down a room that would like pull out all the air in the room. And I just,
00:10:24
Speaker
said, like, if I ever get the opportunity to be in the front of the room, I had a very clear idea of the type of leader that I wanted to be. But outside of that, I also took three different leadership courses, which my years leading up to being artistic director, I really wanted to be ready because I think lots of times people think of leaders And it's like, oh, yeah, they're prepped and they're ready. And it's like, no, there just was a vacancy. And then like all of a sudden you're a leader. thought You're like, oh, geez. So I think for me, I wanted to part of the evolution is is that I just wanted a place where dancers really felt respected and seen and heard. i wanted a place that you didn't have to
00:11:05
Speaker
put up boundaries and guard yourself, that you could come in kind of heart open, eyes open, and that that it was a brave space for art. I think for me as a choreographer too, it's evolved because I'm trusting my voice more. I'm not trying to be like this type of choreographer that type of choreographer. I'm just drawing on all of the experiences that I had. And it's really funny. i had um We're considered a contemporary modern dance company. And so when I teach, I say it's a contemporary modern dance class. And I've had numerous people be like, this is not contemporary. I don't know what this is, but I love it. And I'm like, great.
00:11:43
Speaker
Like, ah you know, i i love being kind of uncategorizable. like that because I am drawing on tap rhythms. I am drawing on like All of the things that make me who I am as a dancer and the things that I care about as a person kind of marry in me as a choreographer. And so we have, you know, pieces that are literally because I want to see and create something beautiful because I want to counter what I'm feeling. We have pieces that are specifically about a thing. We have pieces that are inspired by artwork. We have pieces that are inspired by nature. We have pieces that I just couldn't get one of my dancers out of my head. And I just wanted to show the audience and share the brilliance of this particular performer with you. And so that I think makes for a really beautiful mixture of a work hard, play hard space. Like the rep is really challenging, but it's done with like, I always talk about like the balance of rigor and joy.
00:12:46
Speaker
Right? Like we have to, as dancers, we're super disciplined and that has to come in the room with you. But this should be a joyous space of bravery and courage. It should not be a space where you're feeling bad. It should not be a space where you're afraid to be who you are. It should not be, you know, I feel very strongly that that's not what creative spaces should be. So I work really hard to make sure that in our evolution that we maintain a place that pushes boundaries in a gracious way, right? And that it's like, it is a gracious organization. And I don't know at the beginning
00:13:27
Speaker
that we were that. I think we were a little insular, you know, kind of thinking kind of inwards. And it's like, no, what can this art do for the community? What can we do now as this ambassadors of this really powerful art form?
Emerge 125's Mission and Innovation
00:13:42
Speaker
How can we bring that out? So we've expanded like our education part of the company is really quite robust now. And we think of ourselves always as you know, as being part of that continuum. All of my dancers had these aha moments when we went and saw a dancer somewhere. we were like, what?
00:14:00
Speaker
From that moment on, that's how we got here. So now we are those people. And so Really honoring and understanding that responsibility is really beautiful. And I think that's a big part of the evolution is like understanding that we're part of this big continuum and that we, if we do our jobs right, are inspiring the next generation of artists. And that's how this whole thing survives. I think that's just like...
00:14:29
Speaker
So great, you know, so I think that's a big part of it is that we always like to say that we're more than just a dance company because the philosophy is expansive. It's not about this tendu, this plie, this, of course it's that, right? And we want to make sure that that is done with all of the technical proficiency that it's expected, but also, right, there's all of these other aspects that come into it. And so I really appreciate that evolution of like, we are using dance as our vehicle to better the spaces, places, and the people that come into contact with us.
00:15:06
Speaker
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00:16:08
Speaker
Can you talk about how you do that in a really practical way, how you create that space? In your bio, you stated that you subscribe to a servant leadership model. Can you explain what that means and how that shapes you as a leader?
00:16:20
Speaker
Sure. i think actually, I'm really glad you brought that up. I think I'm in the process of transforming my leadership model because of You know, life things, and I'm older now. You know, I started when I was the artistic director in my 30s, and now I'm in my 40s. So I think the servant leadership model really kind of takes the ego out of it. And you are in service of something greater than yourself. So you are in service of the mission of the organization, right? That's what it was for me. So as I'm making decisions, it wasn't like, do I want to do this? Do I want to say, does this serve what we're trying to do?
00:16:56
Speaker
And so every decision is kind of made through that filter, but there is like, there is deep sacrifice in that. But for me, I had that before I was like a mom and this and that I had that to give. I think now that I'm a little bit older, I'm transforming into transformative leadership, which means that there's a more kind of democratized way of running things and that you're actively pulling people up and like energizing their brilliance so that it's like a torch passing.
00:17:30
Speaker
And I think what the servant leadership is very heavy in one place, at least how it worked out for me. It's like you you're, you are in service in this, but it's a big commitment. And so to get other people to join you on that journey is really challenging, but the investment in people like as a transformational leader,
00:17:49
Speaker
You take a little bit of like the bird's eye view and you are able to kind of look and say like, okay, this person's really good at this. Where are there are like professional development opportunities where I could do this? Where could I allow this person to shadow and get this information? So I feel now that I have enough information under my belt to kind of transfer into that. Not only with my staff, but as in my dancers as well, I'm always looking for ways that I'm like, I'm always thinking about their resumes, like what is gonna help build their resume? What is gonna help them be hireable within this field and outside of the field too? So I think that's where I am, but it's, there's a lot of intention. Like you have to really think intentionally. And I think honestly, when I became a mom, I just had more boundaries around my work
00:18:43
Speaker
because I really wanted them to marry beautifully, but my priorities had changed. Like the most important thing in my life now was bringing this actual human being up in a way that I'm hoping that she can go out and do good in the world. And I'm i'm wanting to model that for her, but it is different. you know like I can't be up until three, four in the morning because she's up at six now. you know So like those things really change. So I've had to put some boundaries around like my work day. And so then it was like, okay, well, I don't want anything to falter, but it's like, what can I do? And it's like, you can bring more people in, right? Like you can bring more people in and you can share the knowledge and the wealth and let people have that same beautiful rise that I had. When I leave at some point, someone's going to have to take this job.
00:19:39
Speaker
you know So you might as well start getting people ready for it. i i never thought that I would be an artistic director. I never thought that I'd be a choreographer, but someone saw that in me and that changed my whole world. right It changed my life. And so to be able to do that for others, I think, you know what better?
Diversity and Inclusion in Dance
00:20:00
Speaker
Another phrase that you used in your bio that I really liked and that was interesting was you see that you use disruption through inclusion as a way to shape the company culture. Can you share what that looks like?
00:20:11
Speaker
Sure. i think lots of times people have a specific idea of like what dance companies should look like or what this should be. or like There's a lot of like boxing and compartmentalization.
00:20:22
Speaker
And for me, I just think that sometimes the most radical thing is to bring people together because as humans, just as a species, it seems like we're always trying to like subdivide constantly. and use difference as this negative. And I'm like, I think difference, at least for me, really is a positive. And so i think there is something when I took over, there was this question around like, Is it now going to be like a black dance company? And I'm like, that was it was an interesting question. And I'm like, well, I'm not going allow anyone to put me in a box like I'm going to make my art and I'm going to make it with artists that I believe in. So if a black dance company is defined by an aesthetic.
00:21:06
Speaker
Probably not. If it's defined by a Black person making it, then yes. But I'm like, but that's a ah conversation and a question for you all to think about. Not for me. I'm going to go off and make my art. But what was important for me was that I've always wanted to be in New York City since I was four. And I was so, I loved how the city looked. So it was important for me that my company look like the city. And that for a lot of people, when you look at organizations that typically are black female led, they don't look like my company. And that was like people really glitched. They were like, who
00:21:39
Speaker
But that, I mean, I think how brilliant when you're in the audience and you get to see someone that looks like you doing the thing along someone that doesn't look like them. And then you're seeing that reflected in the audience. Like that, great. Let's do that because it's so great. Like I have a dancer who's a former ballet dancer who also does salsa. have people that are like deep in West African and like, you know all of these things coming together. One, it allows the company to be ready for whichever direction I want to go.
00:22:06
Speaker
And I think there's something really beautiful about that. And i think being able to talk about and acknowledge your differences and how those differences are actually unifying factors are really beautiful. And I think... For us, that's it. Like we celebrate, you know, every month we're celebrating something because of who's in the company. And we want to make sure that all parts of the artists that are part of Emerge 125 are celebrated.
00:22:37
Speaker
And that level, I think, of disruption was like very jarring for people at first. They just had a lot of questions, you know, and I'm like, that's fine. Like bring questions. And like, I think that's part of it is not being afraid to be curious and say like, oh, that's interesting. Like, why does your company look like this? And I can speak to it because it's really intentional.
00:22:59
Speaker
you know, of like why the company looks like this. I have dancers that are like four ten maybe is like the smallest one up to like 6'2". have, you know I mean, like I really thrive on diversity and difference as like positive catalysts for not only creation, but for communication, for working together. You know, there's all of these ways. And for empathy, I think that's the other thing, like being able to empathize with someone that doesn't look like you or doesn't have a shared experience with you is I think, going to really help
00:23:42
Speaker
outside the studio. You know, a lot of the things that we do inside the studio, it's like, let's take what with these lessons that we're learning inside of the studio and take them outside of the studio. How brilliant. And why not? So I think that disruption through inclusion is a way of me just kind of getting to the humanity of all of it.
00:24:02
Speaker
You know, it's just like, why not? Why be exclusionary if you don't have to be? Why? and i And I don't believe you have to be. So why? When you're looking for dancers to join your company, what are you looking for? or What draws you to a dancer?
00:24:19
Speaker
Oh, so many things. So one, this is the one that I owe that people are always like, what does that mean? I'm like, I really need to feel, and it doesn't mean that you are or you aren't, it just, I need to feel that you're like a good person. That's ah really important to me. And what I mean by that is like on stage, I wanna make sure that you're about the collective unit, that you're not just out here. Like if someone stumbles or whatever next to you, that you, if you can save it, if you could help it, that you are aware and you care enough. that you're not like, great, here's my moment to shine, you know, because this person's going down.
00:24:52
Speaker
I don't want that. And when you're making art, it's really vulnerable. And it's really, you're tapping into places that are like unfamiliar or scary. And so you have to be kind to each other in that space.
00:25:05
Speaker
So I'm looking for people that are down for that challenge and are excited by that challenge. Because for me, as an artistic director, I'm really interested in guiding an ah and an ensemble and understanding what it is to be part of a whole.
00:25:19
Speaker
I'm not interested in nine solos happening in unison. That's a different thing. So, you know, full disclosure, all of the dancers are conservatory trained, right? So there's a certain level of expertise within the craft and and dedication to the craft, right, that exists now.
00:25:37
Speaker
I think there has been a couple who didn't have that experience but came in because they had other kind of life experience that they were able to not feel out of place or, you know, they had what they needed to be in the room easily. Dancers that have a lot of differing backgrounds, like that they have partnering and jazz and ballet and tap and modern, major, modern and contemporary. Maybe they did hip hop, like all of those things. I think social dancing, like if you're a club kid, like something else, because I pull on like all of those things. So I think having a diversity of interest in dance, even if you don't have the experience that you're like, you're like, I'm not all of those things, but I love this, or I like to do that, I think is really important. And you have to be a hard worker.
00:26:25
Speaker
Like you have to be in love with the work and the process, not just the product. It can't be I'll work hard or like I'll get there when I perform, right? It has to be that you're willing to show up and show out in rehearsal every day so that by the time we get to the performance, because you spend so way more time in the process than you do in the product. So you really have to be in love with the process for me. I think that that's a huge thing. So outside of auditions, I also do a couple round of interviews because I really want to see and feel how
00:27:01
Speaker
we vibe because it's not just me picking you you have to pick me too right like this is a relationship that we're starting so I never want dancers to feel like they're just like selling their wares all the time but that you're like you have autonomy to decide this next job and that you want to be in space with me as much as I want to be in space with you I tend to watch people for a long time before. There's been very few people that I didn't know at all and just came to the audition.
00:27:33
Speaker
But there have been some. There really have been. I have two of them in my in my company right now that I had an audition last summer and they just blew me away. And I was like, I know nothing about these people, so it's a hope and a prayer. But I really am bringing in, there's a very specific kind of calculation and formula to creating an ensemble.
00:27:52
Speaker
And a lot of that is not only what you're bringing to the table as a performer, but it's also personality elements. So me understanding who you are as a person, what your values are, what you're trying to do in your career, where you are in your career, all of that is really important to me, not just how you hit the step.
Challenges and Resilience During the Pandemic
00:28:13
Speaker
One thing that's really incredible, I think, about you as an artistic director is that you've achieved a lot of longevity and success, even during really economically challenging times through COVID. Really tough things. And we've seen a lot of companies fold and just not be able to make it through those times. So what do you think were the most critical decisions you made that helped Emerge 125 survive?
00:28:35
Speaker
You know, it was community. Like, i started coalition building. Like that's really what it was, is that we were all struggling, but we will do better together. And so that's when a lot of my deep partnerships were started. That's when I really invested in education because I was like, these are going to be the lifelines.
00:28:58
Speaker
And it was also just a deep commitment. to my dancers. you know I was on all these artistic director calls during you know COVID and so many companies right away, the first thing they were doing was like keeping the school open and closing the company. And I was shocked.
00:29:12
Speaker
I was really like, are you kidding me? like we're only a week, a month in, like we're not going to even attempt to keep these artists who have given everything to us. Like, it's just, that's it. And I really doubled down and we honored every contract, artists and staff across the board. And I was unyielding about that. And that's when I think, you know, really that servant leadership model kicked in because I was in overdrive.
00:29:41
Speaker
applying to every single grant, every this, you know, Zoom calls with anyone to try to make sure we could make this happen. And also understanding what was happening in my community too. It's like, oh, do you need this? I have that and this, you know, like again, trying to like, building and bartering because when times are tough you rely on your neighbors right when you don't have it's like that whole like you go to your neighbor for a cup of sugar type of thing you know and it seems like small acts but a lot of the relationships that i've built in covet including ones with lawmakers like i started this online series where i brought together artists and legislators Just to talk because I think it's really important. and I always say that artists need, especially dancers, need to work their voice like any other muscle in their body.
00:30:33
Speaker
You can't leave it dormant and then expect when the time is right that you're going to have all the words. You're not. You have to practice. And so there was so much like muttering and disappointment and disillusion and not understanding what's going on. And it's like, well, what is what is the government doing? What can they do? And I was like, well, let's find out. Let's just ask them.
00:30:52
Speaker
Let's just see And so many legislators were willing to come on and say like, and listen and hear from the dance community. And it allowed the dance community to advocate for itself. And I thought that was really...
00:31:06
Speaker
beautiful and we we are still in communication with a lot of those those public figures and sometimes the dancers will like do calls for them or like you mean? Like it activated their sense of what was going on in their communities as well, which was really exciting. One of my dancers was telling me that they like started a petition to try to get like a wheelchair ramping installed, like, you know, near their building or something. And it's like, that's great, but it's, that was part of it is that your community is gonna be, those are the people to your right and left, whether you know it or not.
00:31:41
Speaker
And I think without me kind of looking out, I think during COVID, a lot of people panicked, right? And the in it started to tunnel vision. And then they just started looking internally. And then it's like, if I don't have the question, if I don't have the answers, you're kind of screwed, right? because you've instead of doing this, you've you've now done that.
00:32:00
Speaker
But I was like, I don't know anything. It's everyone's first pandemic. What to do? like What do you think we should do? What are you doing? Because it's like no one knows, right? So you have to embrace the chaos that like, it's not like, well, in the last pandemic. Like, no, this is this was everyone's, except for people that are 100 years older or more, it was everyone globally.
00:32:22
Speaker
The first pandemic ever. So I just really felt, one, I couldn't do anything wrong because there are no rules. It's the wild, wild us. Like there's just no rules. No one knows anything. So it's just like this is the time to kind of swing for the fence is how I felt.
00:32:39
Speaker
Because I'm like, if it doesn't work out, I can be like, well, the pandemic, you know? like And if it does, great. like But I think during that time, i was really fearless in my outreach in how I was just like, I'm going to be very clear that I don't know anything. And I'm just going to try to talk to as many people as possible and just see what can be, what beauty can be kind of created from this misery. Because there's always a counter, right? There's always a balance. And that saved the company.
00:33:11
Speaker
It saved the company like in ways I, you know, like financially with our reputation, with the dancers being able to stay with me across the board. I think the decisions made during that time really allowed for really positive growth. But I think outside of that too, I'm really not afraid to fail.
00:33:34
Speaker
That's part of it. Do you know what mean? Like if we're if we're looking at our matrix of success, again, in a harmonious place, there's balance, right? So there's a lot of things that I tried and it didn't work, but they never I was never like sad about It's like, well, I tried and it didn't work. Let's try something else. Let's try something else. Like it never, I was never like, oh no, you know, it's like no one has time for that. We just have to like keep trying, keep trying because at no point is it going to be like, oh, everything for the arts is subsidizing. You'll never have to worry about money. Just go make your art. Like that's not a thing, right? Like, think so we are going to be in this hustle
00:34:12
Speaker
Forever for, know what mean? Like that is, and that's what we signed up for. And we understand that. So the same way that I'm asking dancers to kind of fall in love with the work on that side, like I have to fall in love with that work of that cycle too, of like, you are just going to be hustling forever. And so you have to find some beauty in that. And you have to find some friends along the way. Like I always say, I do my best work with playmates. Like I'm a very, playful creature. And so I'm like, I need playmates outside of like colleagues. I need someone to play with because that's when my imagination can go crazy when I'm not really bogged down by reality. Cause I, I really feel like I'm an optimistic realist. So the reality will come in eventually budgets come in and the venue comes in and the restrictions come in and the like, right. So that's going to happen. So I don't need to start from that place.
00:35:09
Speaker
why because it's like eventually once i have this dream whatever the reality will start to come into it and then what i'm left with is something actually tangible that i can do i'm like great let's do that but i i feel lots of times people start with and i talk to the staff about this if you can't do something instead of doubling down on all the myriad of reasons why you can't do something what can you do if we have all of we have 45 restrictions okay receive them and don't worry about it like just receive it okay I have 45 restrictions within those 45 restrictions what can I do right like that way of thinking versus like oh I have 45 restrictions like if I only had 40 I could do this but i have 45 you know what I mean like you're bogged down at that and it's like those restrictions aren't moving
00:36:00
Speaker
My budget is finite. It is what it is. So I can spend all of my energy staring at the budget and admiring the problem. Or I can be like, okay, bet within this budget, what can I do? you know And I think that that that mentality really has helped me one, stay positive in really horrific like times that you're just like, oh my God, it's really on fire out here. But I think that it is important to also kind of be in awe and wonderment of it all because at the end of the day, on my worst day, on the worst day where I'm like, everyone hates me,
00:36:40
Speaker
Everything's going terribly. Like, I can't think of one dance step anymore. I'm no longer a choreographer. Am I even an artist? Like, existential crisis, right? Like, even on my worst, I still don't want to be doing anything else, right? So there's that.
00:36:56
Speaker
Like at any point and like if on your bad days, you're like, well, I could be happier doing this. Well, try it. Try it then. You know what mean? Because it's it's worth it because you're going to have these really tough moments. And in those moments, it lets you know what you're made of.
00:37:13
Speaker
You know, and because I have, to your point, have like shepherded the company through these really hard times, a couple of them, I feel confident and meant to be here. I know how to do this. It will either work or it won't, but I'm going to give 100%. I'm giving maximum effort. That will either be enough or it won't, but I'm going to enjoy myself while I'm doing it and make some like dope art along the way.
00:37:38
Speaker
If you're a dancer who's feeling lost, overwhelmed, or even just unsure about your next career step, I am here for you. As a former professional ballet dancer turned dance career mentor, I help dance dancers get clear on what they really want out of their careers and build a real, actionable strategy to get them there.
00:37:57
Speaker
Whether you need help setting goals, planning for auditions, navigating mindset blocks, or or just having someone in your corner who gets what you're going through and can hold you accountable, mentorship can make all the difference.
00:38:12
Speaker
If you're curious about whether working with a dance career mentor is the right fit for you, i offer a complimentary career consultation so we can talk through your unique goals and challenges.
00:38:22
Speaker
Just head to the show notes to schedule your consultation and let's fill the dance career you've been dreaming about. and And one thing that's really emerged for me from this conversation is how important community is for you.
The Cultural Role of Art and Future Vision
00:38:34
Speaker
It's so clear. I know you're a really active community leader. What do you feel like your role is as an artist and an arts leader in the cultural landscape?
00:38:42
Speaker
um I think it's to remind people to be brave, right? I think that's that's a huge part. It's such we as artists take a huge leap of faith. There's nothing secure about anything that we do. There's nothing safe about anything that we do. So I think it's always it's modeling courage.
00:39:03
Speaker
It's ah modeling how to advocate for yourself. You know, like, again, the arts aren't given anything. You have to fight tooth and nail for scraps. But I think it's also about reminding everyone that and I love to say this, it's like before the wheel,
00:39:19
Speaker
There was art, there were drawings, there was dance, there was singing, right? This is what we are fundamentally. We are cultural beings. So it's a good reminder that this is not something that's secondary or tertiary on the side. This is essential to who we are. When we build these shrines to ourselves, we put art in them because it's a way for us to understand ourselves. And it's a way for us to understand our values.
00:39:50
Speaker
Like that is what art is. And so i I love being able to remind people of that. This is not like you are interacting with art every day.
00:40:03
Speaker
and regardless if you're going into an art class. Everything that we are wearing, looking at, reading, it was designed by someone that's an artist. My rehearsal directors talks about art and science like this and like that's it. Like looking at your microphone right now, that is art and science, right? There's the science of it and there's the art around what it looks like and the aesthetic of it and like the all of that. And that we just, we live it in our lives. During COVID, the thing that people were missing was art.
00:40:34
Speaker
That's what they were craving. We live in a weird society in which we're made to feel as artists that we're like, just should be like lucky to be here. And it's kind of the side thing. And it's like, no, I'm sorry. We are in the center of the human experience. We are in the center of it. Without art, we have no way of cataloging our existence.
00:40:58
Speaker
And it is a value even if we don't societally have like the words or don't have the systems in place to value it. It doesn't mean that it's not valued. It just certain things are undeniable and we as artists are undeniable.
00:41:15
Speaker
What's next for you and for Emerge 125? Where do you see these next 10 years taking the company and yourself? Well, I mean, i want to keep doing what I'm doing. I love my job so much. So this year, as we're celebrating my 10th anniversary, instead of doing a retrospective, I decided to do two premieres and a work in progress so that we I can start to venture forward. I think it really looks like bigger and more exciting collaborations. Like we're working with the New York Youth Symphony and they're like having live music and working with like new composers, I think is always exciting. I love working with other living artists. I really love ah classical music, but it's like, I get it. I already know
00:41:59
Speaker
What we learned in school, I get it. Like, who are the new, like, where are the new classics coming from? Who are those people? And so that gets me really excited. So that piece I'm very excited about where we are working with a conservation group that is rewilding grizzlies, which I think is like,
00:42:16
Speaker
just an incredible, like, what is even happening? was like, oh, just being able to move and change the like actual ecology. and was like, wow, that's incredible. So I'm looking more expansively about what collaboration looks like and not just looking within the art sector too, but I I'm really excited. It's the California Grizzly Alliance that we're working with. And I'm just like, So I'm in constant conversations with like scientists and like, it's really exciting. So I think finding ways that art can be in collaboration and in conversation with like unlikely pairings, I think is kind of where I'm going.
00:43:00
Speaker
and continuing to make art that is worthy of my dancers, like time and talent. That's something that I think about a lot. I don't want to come in there and not give them anything less than my best. So I'm also wanting to find time and retreats and residencies as a solo artist so that I can really ground within myself to make sure that I'm clear in my messaging and that I can come with my best work. And then Outside of that, there's always the gray of like, who knows? i would never, Caitlin, have been able to say like predict any of these last 10 years like at all. So and that that's like great and horrifying equal parts. So I kind of feel that with this next 10 years. I'm like, I have no idea. But in 10 more years, I'll be in my 50s. I'm like, wow, you know, like who knows? But something what I can say is I think it will be something really positive and hopefully something very impactful. That's really the hope.
Advice for Aspiring Dancers
00:43:59
Speaker
Last question that I like to ask all of my guests, if you had to give aspiring professional dancers one piece of advice from everything you have learned in your career, what would you tell them? Don't be afraid of sweat and hard work. That's number one. You have to be about the work. But I think, too, don't be afraid to advocate for yourself. You are worthy of a lot. And so make sure that when you're going into environments that you are, that those environments are also worthy of you.
00:44:28
Speaker
i think that that's really important that you don't have to just take whatever is given, and you know, given to you, that you can shape and have more autonomy around what your career and daily environment and interaction with your artistry is.
00:44:48
Speaker
Tiffany, this was incredible. I already can tell this is an interview I'm going to listen to whenever I need a little talk. yeah Everything you're saying, I'm nodding along, just taking it all in because it's really phenomenal the way you're approaching your work and I'm really inspired by you. If anyone listening wants to learn more about you, Emerge 125, or see an upcoming performance, where can we find information?
00:45:11
Speaker
You can go to our website, which is emerge125.org. We're also on Instagram at emerge125. I'm at trayfisher on Instagram. And we are going to be, our season is coming up at El Museo del Barrio, April 30th through May second And you can get tickets through our website. I think they're up now, but if not, they'll be up within the week, I'm pretty sure. And yeah, please come through. i would i would love that. And on Instagram and on our website, you'll also see if I'm teaching. Sometimes I teach at Steps or do... We have our summer workshop coming up also, which is in July, where that's an area where I get to work with and see young artists. So by all means, please interact with us. If you DM or whatever, it will come. directly to me. So please reach out. We would love to to get to know you.
00:46:04
Speaker
Amazing. Thank you so much, Tiffany. This was incredible. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
00:46:10
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:46:23
Speaker
By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus your reigns help others discover the show too.
00:46:36
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Ballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.