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BONUS: Is Ballet a Dying Art Form?
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In this episode of the Brainy Ballerina Podcast, I’m joined by dance body image mentor Katrena Cohea to unpack a recent pop-culture moment that sparked major debate in the ballet and opera communities.
After a prominent actor publicly dismissed ballet and opera as art forms that “no one cares about anymore,” dancers and arts organizations responded with outrage, humor, and viral marketing.
We unpack why the comment struck such a nerve for dancers who have devoted our lives to the art form. But beyond the initial reaction, we dive deeper into the bigger questions the moment raises: Is ballet evolving fast enough? What barriers are keeping audiences away? And how can dancers, teachers, and companies ensure ballet continues to thrive for generations to come?
Key Points in this Episode:
- How ballet’s reputation as “stuffy” or elitist affects public perception
- The reality of underfunding in the arts and its impact on progress
- The importance of evolving traditions while preserving what makes ballet special
- How toxic training environments can drive dancers (and future audiences!) away
- The role of marketing, storytelling, and social media in attracting new audiences
- How small actions by teachers, dancers, and ballet lovers can create meaningful change in the ballet world
Connect with Katrena:
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/yourbodyimagebff
Related Episodes:
76. Love Your Body (or Don't) with Katrena Cohea
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
1-1 CAREER MENTORING: book your complimentary career call
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Caitlin and the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I love ballet, but I don't love it more than the human being that I'm looking at or that I'm working with or that I'm watching on stage. And we have to come back to the humanity of it and remember that it only can survive with the people.
00:00:16
Speaker
Ballet does not exist without the people in it. So if we want ballet to continue surviving for the next 400 years and for people to keep caring about it, we have to do everything we can to nurture it and the people within it.
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer.
00:00:56
Speaker
Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Ballet Controversy and Public Perception
00:01:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and today we are taking a deep dive into a recent pop culture phenomenon, I guess I could say, when a certain actor...
00:01:22
Speaker
who shall not be named, said a quote that I'm sure anyone in the ballet world has heard, but he said, i don't want to be working in ballet or opera or things where it's like, hey, keep this thing alive, even though like no one cares about this anymore.
00:01:39
Speaker
This definitely stunned to hear, and I think a lot of dancers were outraged, myself included. But there's more nuance, and it goes deeper than just this one soundbite we heard. So today, to break it down and really dive deep, I am joined by Katrina Cohe. She is a dance body image mentor and the founder of Your Body Image BFF.
00:02:01
Speaker
So we're going to get into all of our thoughts surrounding this controversy. But I first want to say that I actually kind of loved that this happened because it put ballet and opera back in the spotlight.
Transforming Ballet's Image
00:02:13
Speaker
And there was a lot of really funny and really good marketing content from companies who immediately got on board and used this as an opportunity to promote their performances and their work. Yeah, 100%. I think one of the things that stood out to me about seeing all this other amazing content was that ballet and opera have this thought around them like, oh, they're they're meek, they don't really speak up much, obviously we're not in the headlines very often.
00:02:41
Speaker
And the marketing and the content that adds a response to this person's quote was just so savage and so so hilarious and so wonderful that I think it kind of shocked everyone, like kind of myself included, that like ballet, I don't know so much about opera, but specifically like our ballet communities were so on top of it and so ready to clap back so quickly and did it with so much thoughtfulness and smartness and class, but also humor. it was really nice to see. Yes. it i feel like I have been seeing more ballet companies' content kind of trending in this way where they're more willing to get onto trends and bring more humor and into their content because I think for a long time – and we're really focusing on the ballet portion of this, obviously – This comment dissed both ballet and opera, but dance is our world, so we're talking ballet mostly today.
00:03:39
Speaker
But the ballet world can be seen as stuffy, elitist, kind of better than everyone else mentality. And I have been seeing ballet companies realizing that if we want people to get on board,
00:03:52
Speaker
People like humor. People like to feel part of the joke. People want to feel like this is something that they could part of. And so i have been seeing us trending this way in the community, which I really do love. But I want to talk about why this made us so mad.
00:04:10
Speaker
Because immediately, I mean, the rage was intense. And for me, my first thought was, I have devoted my entire life to this art form.
00:04:20
Speaker
For almost 30 years, I have either done ballet, thought about ballet, talked about ballet every single day of my life. And then to have somebody say, nobody cares about this. I'm like, this is my life's work.
00:04:35
Speaker
Is my life's work meaningless? Does nobody care? and I know that's not true because I'm in it every single day, teaching in the studio, working with the company, running my business, mentoring dancers. I know people care, but it just hits a nerve when somebody says nobody cares about this, when it's literally everything
The Dedication Behind Ballet
00:04:56
Speaker
you do. Yeah, I agree with you. And one of the responses that came out on social media, I think that like impacted me the most as a response was clips of, you know, stage hands working and conductors and all of those quote unquote backstage roles that go into making these productions that we all care so much about and like you said, have devoted our life to. So it's not just a ballet dancer or an opera singer. The ripple effect of
00:05:30
Speaker
the people who dedicate their lives to these art forms is really impressive and wonderful and one of the things that make our art so beautiful. So I think any kind of disparagement of that really hits home. And of course, we're going to react and we're going to feel some certain kind of way about it. I'd be worried if we didn't. But one of the things that I also thought about when I heard this quote is that, I mean, it comes off as holier than thou, which I think is one of the things that made us get so upset and angry about it is like, oh, okay, well, you could never, first of all, mister. Like, have you ever set foot in a ballet class? Have you ever like, attempted like singing? Just the level of not knowing, like being completely unaware of what it takes in order to succeed in an art. like this Although there were so many clips coming out too where it was showing him talking about growing up backstage at the Koch Theater with his mom and his sister yeah training at SAB and dancing in some of the City Valley productions. And so it was like, but you do know what it takes and maybe that's where this is coming from.
Personal Experiences and Ballet Perception
00:06:45
Speaker
the actual experience of seeing how hard it is and being like, I actually don't want to do that because I fores perceive it to be a dying art form from my background. But still it was like, could you have just said,
00:06:58
Speaker
I don't care about these things. Right. There are a lot of things I don't care about. Same. And that's fine. Like, I don't care about football. or We don't have to all care about the same things. But to say, like, nobody cares and to call it this dying art form, that's what, like, made me so mad because I don't care if everybody loves ballet.
00:07:17
Speaker
yeah But it was dismissive. It's just bad manners, you know? Yes. And especially the arts, every genre of the arts has its manners and like the things we are and aren't supposed to do. And this is like a big no-no, feel like, across all art genres and disciplines is like you said, you don't have to get it, you don't have to love it. If it's not your medium, it's not your medium. But that doesn't mean you have to trash, you know, another art form. And another thing that I thought when I heard this quote was something that I learned in therapy, always applying my therapy lessons to everyday life. ah When someone points a finger at you, there's still three fingers pointing back at them. meaning whatever they're saying is really has less to do with the other person and more to do with their own insecurities and feelings. So I think you just touched on that by saying, so this person does kind of have a background, like has some knowledge of what it takes to be a dancer and just doesn't get it. Like that's not the path that he chose, which is fine. But I think maybe by pointing the finger at ballet and opera,
00:08:31
Speaker
What the subtext of that might have been was, I don't really understand this. And I don't want to put my energy and my effort towards understanding it, which again, is fine. We all have our things, we all have our mediums. But it just it was not the right way to express that feeling.
Confronting Ballet's Internal Challenges
00:08:51
Speaker
And that lesson you just shared is so interesting because same for us as dancers. Again, I was very quick to clap back and be very full of rage and no regrets there. I i feel like that was warranted. But...
00:09:08
Speaker
The more I thought about the more I thought, hmm, we're all pointing the finger at this person. But like you said, there's still three fingers pointed back at us in the ballet world. Because i think the other thing that really hit a nerve is that as dancers – deep down, maybe we're afraid that it's true, that our art form is dying, that it's not keeping up with this current life we're living in and this world where everyone wants really quick hits and quick clips and their attention spans are getting shorter and shorter. And we're working in a medium that is long form content. Hmm. That requires people not just to sit on their couch and watch a movie of long-form content, but to leave their house, go to a theater, in the theater and watch a two-and-a-half-hour show. We're asking people to commit way more time, and I think deep down that we maybe are worried that will people keep doing that?
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you 100% because I'm with you. I loved getting a giggle on it. Social media is a rough place to be these days. And anytime, like we said, ballet is highlighted, i think it's a fun switch up of content. And I love breaking down the hierarchies of like,
00:10:22
Speaker
celebrity worship. So I love, i love it when people get taken down a notch a little bit. But one of the things that I talked about on my social media was where is this same rage along the wide spectrum of things that we do have to be really concerned about in the ballet world? Because I think you're right. I think ballet has not done a great job of staying up with the times or evolving or modifying or editing. The feeling and like the image that comes to me when I think of our very traditional ballet companies and directors and dancers and choreographers is just like digging their heels in. And being like, nope, this is the tradition. This is the way it's been for 400 years, 200 years since this person choreographed it. And that's how we honor the tradition. And I think that's really misguided in today's culture and society. I think the way that we honor tradition. our art form is to evolve with it and learn from it. And art isn't stagnant, right? I remember you and I talking about this at our last podcast episode when we were talking specifically about teaching practices. And I said something like, you know, if your teaching practice is stagnant, then
00:11:42
Speaker
you've got a problem. And I think that applies to the art of ballet too, whether it's performances or who's choreographing, who's directing, do we have diversity? Do we have equity? Do we have inclusion? Are we still doing really outdated themes and things like yellow face or black face? All of these things come into play And that's not even touching on like the body image side of things and the eating disorders and the mental health challenges. So I was just really kind of taken aback that there was a huge level of outcry and rage, but yet we're not seeing that towards things like the prevalence of eating disorders and dancers or weigh-ins or black dancers not getting jobs or not paying dancers living wages. Like there's all of these other elements that that we really do need to be addressing and changing.
00:12:36
Speaker
But the lack of outrage over those is significantly quiet. Yes. And granted, it took me three minutes to make a real clapping back at this quote, right? It takes deep systemic change in the Valley culture to fix these problems. So we have a lot of work to do. And the thing that's so hard about the arts is that the arts are so underfunded and then the staff is so stretched and they're doing so so much. They're doing multiple roles every single day and they're doing an incredible job. And there's all these other things we need to be doing. And you almost don't have even breathing room enough to get through your daily life as a dancer or as a director, let alone
00:13:21
Speaker
do all the other deep, deep things that we need to be doing. And what I'm seeing at Madison Valley where I work is that it's a daily practice. I'm really proud to be working there. I think it's a really incredible company that is doing a lot of these things that we're talking about that need to change. And it's a daily, daily practice of like having a really open door policy where dancers feel comfortable talking the director about issues. Really working to have more diversity within the company.
00:13:52
Speaker
The programming that we're putting on, I am so excited. it is incredible. Just incredible programming. Something that as an audience member, I'm chomping at the bit to get to see. So I do see this happening in places, but I do know that it is such a hard ah thing to do in an industry where we are underfunded we're we're all just almost trying to survive. Yeah, I can totally see that.
00:14:19
Speaker
And I feel like really, that's a common theme across all of our lives and across pretty much every industry except movies and film, which is maybe another reason why this hits so hard and hurts so much. Because in comparison to ballet or opera, like,
00:14:38
Speaker
Being a movie star seems like a pretty cushy job. i think You know, you've got a huge budget, you're getting paid well. And I'm not saying that it's not hard work, but if we're comparing, ballet seems like it's kind of got the shorter end of the stick here. But I hear what you're saying about like our capacity is just so much lower in our art because the demands are so high and because we're so underfunded. I see that across the board. My day job is working in a library and I see that in the library. It was just writing, you know, a grant that basically said the same thing that you just said, which is we're underfunded. You know, we have a very small staff who have to wear multiple hats and we are stretched so thin because of the area that we're in. We don't have a lot of extra services to offer people. So then the library becomes the place where all those services are offered, which is wonderful.
00:15:37
Speaker
But it also makes my job a lot harder. It makes my staff's job a lot harder. So, yeah, I feel like that's kind of a common theme a lot of us can relate to. no matter what art form or what kind of job that we're in. It's just status quo things of our daily lives here in 2026. Yeah, true.
00:15:56
Speaker
So let's talk about what we can do about this because like we said, there's a lot of anger. As a community, I think we're right now really pumped up. We need somewhere to channel yeah all this anger that we feel and we could channel it in much more effective ways. we're What would you say are some of the things that ballet companies, opera companies could do to make an actual difference in our art form to ensure that it's going to survive the next 400 years? For that, my first thought is to kind of lean on my teaching background. Like when a student does something really good, we want to recognize that and validate that and then try and continue that momentum for them.
00:16:37
Speaker
to go forward and help them see the connections to other things in their technique. Right. So that would be my strategy for this too, is to say like, love the energy here. You've done great with recognizing a problem and coming at it with humor and thoughtfulness and relevance. Now, what else can we apply that to? Like, how can we continue this momentum into other things? And yeah,
00:17:04
Speaker
Maybe that's the focus on marketing. Maybe that's how we start to reach out to the public again and invite them in and say, hey, did you know that ballet also does this? Or this has been an issue in the ballet community and culture, but here's what our company or here's what we're trying to do to address that. The conversations that have arisen out of this whole controversy, i think that's one of the really wonderful side effects of it.
00:17:31
Speaker
From my point of view, I teach an adult open class every single week and I have dancers coming in who a lot of them say I always wanted to dance growing up, but I just never could financially. I didn't have access to it, whatever the case may be. And now they're coming to it as an adult.
00:17:47
Speaker
And I'm so excited to get to teach them ballet. And I'm just like pumped for this journey for them. But I have been in open adult classes where that was not the mentality. And I'm a retired professional dance dancer. And I'm still like, I'm never coming to this class again because I feel so bad about myself because of the way the teacher is maybe treating a beginner dancer with such disdain for being a beginner. And even as a not beginner, like still feeling like, wow, i just feel terrible on myself after this class because – That was so not encouraging. And I'm here for fun. So I think if we want to get more people to love ballet, we have to make it accessible to everyone. And it's not just for elite professional dancers.
00:18:31
Speaker
Right. I'm not saying everyone's going to dance with ABT, but yeah anyone could take a ballet class. Right. And get something out of it and enjoy it. When we treat people who want to learn ballet differently,
00:18:42
Speaker
like they're less than because they haven't trained all of their lives, we are killing our art form because we're yeah we killing our audiences. We're killing the people who want to be a part of this. I know. Yeah. It's a very ironic, vicious circle that we've kind of create it for ourselves because how many people do you know that have those ballet dreams? Probably every little kid at one point.
00:19:08
Speaker
i mean we're all born movers. That's the thing. We all move whether you have been enrolled in a ballet class or a dance class since you were three years old or not. Like we just inherently all have movement built into us. That's part of being human.
00:19:23
Speaker
So there's this whole section of the population who had these ballet dreams of like growing up to take a ballet class or a tap class or whatever, and just never got the opportunity, whether that was because it was cost prohibitive, or there wasn't that service in their area, or whatever. Like so many people's experience, they tried a class and they were like, oh no, the vibe does not match what I was hoping I was going to feel going into this class.
Innovative Suggestions for Ballet's Future
00:19:53
Speaker
And that does such a huge disservice to our art and to the people that we're trying to encourage to participate and invest in our art. How great would it be if one of the spinoffs of this whole controversy was
00:20:11
Speaker
ballet companies doing some sort of outreach program and myth busting ballet, like a myth busting ballet class where it's like, oh, okay, here's a myth that you probably felt or have heard about ballet, that it's stuffy, that it's elitist.
00:20:27
Speaker
which yes, it can be for sure. But here's maybe some other things that you didn't know and come try it with us, you know, and maybe it's like a donation-based class or it's a school outreach program where it's like a parent in me class. I just feel like there's so much potential to keep brainstorming on ideas that we can continue this momentum from and hopefully break down some of those barriers and invite people in while also doing the reflection ourselves as a ballet culture community company. And try and engage with it rather than pushing it away and being like, no, you're wrong, C. And here, we're going to prove you wrong by continuing to do these things that we do. Like, what if it was an invitation instead of a door slam? Yeah, it's an and. You're wrong. And here's what we're going to do about it. And...
00:21:29
Speaker
It's also true that there are so many people who do grow up dancing who as adults will not go see a show because of the trauma they experienced. That should be our number one pool of audience members as people who are dancers. And like red flag. Yeah. You know, yeah, 100%. I mean, I was in that boat for a really long time. i had a really hard time watching either like in person or on and The Nook Cracker, just because that was such an important part of my childhood and then as my professional career too.
00:22:05
Speaker
But it was just so heartbreaking to me because it wasn't a part of my life anymore, but also because it was triggering for so many memories and things that I had not healed from that I just couldn't engage with it. We are our own target audience, like you're saying. I think I saw a comment on somebody else's social media post about this. It was a mom of a dancer who was like, nope, never going to go to a ballet performance at all. I'm not going to support the art because I watched my daughter for years and years be abused by this director or this class. And I saw the mental effects that it had on her. And I'm not willing to support that kind of behavior and that kind of art, which I 100% understand. Again, there's this trickle effect of like, it affects us as dancers. It affects our parents, our loved ones, our kids. It's, we're like, hmm, why aren't there? ah
00:23:04
Speaker
i wonder why our ballet performances aren't well attended. Right. And you know, ballet is not a sentient bead. It's not alive. Like, if there were people doing it and people running it, it's not going to exist anymore. Ballet is the people who keep it alive and who keep traditions alive and who keep passing it on. And I'm definitely one those people who's like, there are some things about ballet that I think should survive. And there are some things that need to evolve. So doesn't mean that we're going to just completely throw away all tradition.
00:23:34
Speaker
There are some really beautiful traditions that exist still, but some things definitely need to evolve. And I'm trying to think, you know, in terms of like movies, like what's different about a movie versus a ballet, right? Like it's cheaper to go see.
00:23:48
Speaker
It's more accessible. You can watch it from your house and the marketing is really, really good. Mm-hmm. It gets people excited about it. And it's so interesting because as a dancer, the works I'm really excited to see are usually the new the new works, the contemporary ballet works. Yeah.
00:24:06
Speaker
But what draws an audience in are a lot of the times the Swan Lake, the Sleeping Beauty, the ballets that people know that they can kind of grasp onto because they're like, oh, I've heard of that.
00:24:17
Speaker
yeah I want to go see that. And I do love those ballets. I don't want to stop doing them. But I do think what you said earlier about the marketing, it's like, how do we take this marketing? I mean, even just now, there's that trend that's like they're showing pictures of the dancers when they were little. And I saw in Indianapolis Ballet doing one for their Sleeping Beauty and they're like, this is who you're asking to sleep for 100 years. Yes. This is who you're asking to bestow the princess with grace and beauty, you know? And it' just like something like that was so cute, but also really effective because now you're seeing the dancers as kids. And so you're remembering like these were kids who had a dream and now they're living out their dream on stage. You want to be a part of that. It's funny. it gets you into the story
00:25:06
Speaker
it breaks it down to a place where we can, as audience members, get excited about it. And this is not going to fix all the deep problems and the deep trauma and all the issues with ballet, but I kind of feel like i really love marketing and I really love that area. And I feel like if we could improve that and get people in the door and get more excited about it and build this momentum, then would we have the funds that and the time and the resources to better address these issues instead of being kind of piecemeal when we can.
00:25:44
Speaker
And of course, that does come down to people being willing to do that work. And there are definitely people in this industry who are 100% willing and some who are not. So that is another thing to consider. But I want to get the resources into the hands of the people who want to do the work and who are like,
00:26:04
Speaker
this would be amazing, I need more support to make it happen. Because it's like, look at the Australian Ballet who are incorporating like really robust strength training programs into their schedule, who are treating their dancers as athletes.
00:26:20
Speaker
SAB just started a really amazing program. They have much bigger budgets than a lot of other companies. So other companies are saying, that would be amazing. How can we make this happen without literally folding? Well, what stood out to me too about the example that you gave about that trend is that to me, that clarifies the storytelling of ballet. Because I think that's one of the barriers for people engaging with ballet is like dance is the language, right? There's no spoken word unless we're talking about something new and contemporary. But I think that's one thing that people are like, oh, I don't, like, I don't get it. Like, I don't understand the storytelling. I don't, who's this person? What is their relationship with this other dancer or this other dude over here? Like, and then this random witch comes in, like, you know, so things like that really do
00:27:13
Speaker
help audiences understand the bigger picture of what they're seeing. And I think the bigger picture of things like those trends are, like you're saying, people who are willing to try new
Role of Individuals in Ballet's Evolution
00:27:28
Speaker
things and are willing to see that there's potential in something that might seem as small as a social media post, because it's not. And all these things, like we're saying, have ripple effects. So if you can recognize that, like,
00:27:43
Speaker
jumping on board a social media trend can help your audience and help break down some of those barriers that your audience feels, then your ripple effect is like, oh, okay, well, maybe representation is another barrier to these ballets. Maybe people aren't seeing dancers or choreographers or anybody who look like them. And that's one thing that's making them stay away. How can we address that? And then It just keeps building on top of itself. So even these small, seemingly insignificant things can end up making huge changes.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yes. Like I just saw, I think it was at Houston Ballet, Harper Waters posted, it was three black male dancers in the leads yeah of this ballet. This is amazing. And like you said, people need to see themselves in the art form to feel a part of it, whether it's to train in it to become a professional dancer, to take an open class, to come to a show, you have to feel like it's for you. Yeah. And I think that also ties back to what we were saying about being afraid that ballet is a dying art form is I think people resist and have a hard time admitting that ballet is hierarchical, like it has survived for so long and thrived in certain
00:29:06
Speaker
areas and seasons of time because it favors white people, white males, white females. That's a hard reality to swallow. None of us really want to acknowledge that because then the ripple effect of that thought is like, it's all the yuck and like, oh God, how have i participated in that? How have I like continued that toxic tradition? That's tough. We don't want to face that reality. So yeah, that resistance, I think, is part of also our healing and how we also do better. Like we have to be willing to look at some of the truths that this quote exposed. And we have to be willing to be like, oh, okay, like, yuck.
00:29:56
Speaker
I don't like this quote. I don't like what it brought up. Why don't I like what it brought up? And rather than, like we said, push it away, let's get curious. Let's have these conversations. Let's see how we can continue the momentum and be accountable. Yes. And I think for anyone listening, it often feels like there's nothing that you can do. But I think that if you can just find one way that you can make the dance world a better place, like for me, I know that's in my teaching because I know that not every dancer I teach is going to want to be a professional.
00:30:32
Speaker
But I hope that they're going to love ballet. I hope that they're going to want to engage with it as adults. I that they're goingnna want to bring their kids to a show, to a class. So I'm very, very particular when I'm teaching about I'm never going to make a body change.
00:30:49
Speaker
comment to a dancer. And I've been told to say things to dancers like, oh, you need to talk to this dancer. I'm never going to do that. And not in my current workplace, but I have been told that in the past.
00:31:01
Speaker
And I'm just like, that's never going to be something that I'm going to do. When I'm teaching my adult classes, I'm very particular about making sure that everyone feels welcome. And they're part of the group. And I teach a ballet 101 class. and When I start that class, I like to ask everyone, why did you want to take this class? And also I like to ask them, what do you do?
00:31:20
Speaker
What do you do for work outside of this? Because I want to bring everyone's individual lives into this conversation and be like, hey, I appreciate that you're a surgeon and you took – an hour and a half every Monday this month to come take this class because it's important to you. And I know that's a big deal. Or you're a mom or you're whatever job you have. It doesn't matter.
00:31:44
Speaker
You're an adult with a million responsibilities. And you said, I'm going to do this. And this is is important to me. And I want to make you feel like you belong here. And so for me, that's the way that I feel like I can make a lasting change. And then also, I mean, with my business, obviously, great you know, and working he with dancers and all those other things too, and the podcast and all of that. But it like, that's where i feel like within my individual community, not even on a bigger scale, like what can you do as a person within your community to make ballet a better place? Like, is it inviting a friend to come see a show with you?
00:32:18
Speaker
Someone who's never seen ballet before, hey, I'll buy you a ticket to come to the show with me. I want to introduce you to this art form that I love. Something as simple as that can help our art form continue to grow. And it can help those people in power who are willing to do the work, again, have those resources to do the work. So even if you're not the person who's at the front of the room who has that kind of influence, there's still ways that you can help this community continue to thrive.
00:32:47
Speaker
Yeah. What I feel like I just heard from you were two really important elements, which is kindness and curiosity. And I think if we can move through our love of ballet with those two things, then that can be a great change and a great representation for how we want to see ballet ourselves and how we want others to see ballet is kindness, like you're saying, whether you're teaching a class or you're interacting with
00:33:21
Speaker
dancers or teachers or the public. I mean, kindness just in general is a great way to be a person in the world. But then also curiosity, whether that's the people who are coming to your class and showing that you are interested in them and that their presence is valuable or even curious in the sense how you pushed back when you were told you need to make a comment you know about this person's body. Just being like,
00:33:49
Speaker
Why? And I feel like asking that question constantly, why? Especially in ballet is a really user-friendly way to start breaking down these hierarchical systems and these toxic beliefs and habits and patterns that we have. Because so often once we start asking why, like if we ask why often enough, we just get this distilled answer that's like, huh, I don't know, that's really dumb. Yes.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yes, exactly. If you ask yourself why and you don't have a good answer, yeah then that's a really good clue that maybe this isn't something we need to keep preserving.
00:34:32
Speaker
Right. Because there are things like, why do we need to learn basic technique in ballet so we can do the other, you know, there's certain things that I'm like, yes, there's a reason for these things. Right. Right.
00:34:43
Speaker
But there are certain things that there is no reason to continue doing them. We just have never stopped for one second to think about why we're even doing them. And when you are working in an art form as old and as storied as ballet or opera, there are going to be things that need to evolve.
00:35:04
Speaker
I think at the root of it, as dancers, we do care about ballet. We know we care about ballet. I love ballet, but I don't love it more than the human being that I'm looking at or that I'm working with or that I'm watching on stage. And we have to come back to the humanity of it and remember that it only can survive with the people.
00:35:28
Speaker
Ballet does not exist without the people in it. So if we want ballet to continue surviving for the next 400 years and for people to keep caring about it, we have to do everything we can to nurture it and the people within it.
00:35:41
Speaker
And that starts with each individual person taking some time to reflect on where they can channel their outrage that they feel toward this whole situation and put it somewhere productive.
00:35:53
Speaker
Well said. Amen. yeah Thank you so much, Katrina. This was really helpful for me to sort of work through all the crazy thoughts I've had in my head. Hopefully this helps other people kind of sort through those emotions that we're feeling surrounding this.
00:36:09
Speaker
For anyone listening, Katrina was also my guest on the podcast previously. So I'm going to link her episode in the show notes because it was an amazing episode as well that you should definitely tune into. Thank you so much, Katrina. I really appreciate you.
00:36:24
Speaker
Thank you. I appreciate you and all you're doing to highlight these conversations and represent the art that we love so much and in a good light. So thank you.
00:36:39
Speaker
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00:36:51
Speaker
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00:37:05
Speaker
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