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98. Ballet Shoes for the 21st Century with Seth & Sarah Orza
164 Plays24 days ago
In this episode of The Brainy Ballerina Podcast, I’m joined by Seth and Sarah Orza - former principal dancers with Pacific Northwest Ballet and the founders of ORZA.
Seth and Sarah share their incredible journey from meeting as teenagers at the School of American Ballet to building careers together both on and off-stage. We dive into the realities of dancing through pain, the lack of innovation in ballet footwear, and how their personal injury experiences led to a groundbreaking solution.
Seth takes us behind the scenes of developing the first-ever patented shock-absorbing ballet shoe, designed to better support dancers’ bodies without sacrificing the aesthetic demands of the art form.
We also explore the bigger picture: how dancers are often underserved when it comes to proper equipment, the long-term impact of training on inadequate flooring, and why the “suffering for your art” mindset needs to change.
Whether you're a student, professional dancer, or someone navigating life after dance, this episode is full of practical advice and inspiration for what’s possible beyond the stage.
Key “Pointes” in this Episode:
- The injuries that sparked the idea for a shock-absorbing ballet shoe
- Why traditional ballet footwear hasn’t kept up with athletic innovation
- The process of designing and manufacturing a completely new kind of dance shoe
- What dancers actually feel when wearing shock-absorbing shoes
- The impact of poor flooring and training environments on dancers’ bodies
- Transferable skills from dance that translate into entrepreneurship
- What dancers should know as they prepare for life after their performing careers
Connect with ORZA:
WEBSITE: www.orzabrand.com (use code BRAINYBALLERINA for 10% off your ORZA shoes)
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/orzabrand
Links and Resources:
Chronicle Studio
APP: https://chroniclestudio.passion.io/
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/chronicle_cdt_studio/
FACEBOOK: facebook.com/chronicleCDTstudio
MORE INFO: allongefilms.com/chroniclestudio
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Brand New Ballerina Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Designing the shoe, it was a necessity for me to do for myself. And that's what kind of drove the shoe becoming a business and then seeing it and developing it with my friends and colleagues all over the States and just like trying to figure out what the best shoe is that we could make using sneaker technology and engineering, like a running shoe and putting that kind of technology into a flat shoe or a ballet slipper without changing the aesthetic.
00:00:28
Speaker
that dancers expect.
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry.
00:00:48
Speaker
I'm peeling back the curtain of the professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Orza: Innovating Ballet Shoes
00:01:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast. I'm your host, Kaitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Seth and Sarah Orza. Seth and Sarah are former principal dancers with Pacific Northwest Ballet, and they also danced previously with New York City Ballet.
00:01:21
Speaker
They are now the powerhouse couple behind Orza, where Seth is the CEO and founder, and Sarah is the marketing director, using their firsthand experience as dance dancers to create the first ever patented shock-absorbing ballet shoe.
00:01:36
Speaker
Let's take it back to the beginning of your story. How did the two of you first meet? Oh, we're taking it way back. but We are going way back. So we actually met at a summer course in 1994 at School of American Ballet. So i'm originally from San Francisco and Sarah's from Amherst, Massachusetts. And we both went there for a summer course and met back then. It wasn't our first time there. We had both been the year before, but we didn't cross paths. That was the first time we met and we both went back for the same amount of consecutive summers before being invited SAP to stay for the year round program. And we stayed that same fall. And so we actually started dating when we were 16. I mean, we just had this amazing trajectory together that was a bit unheard of. We were very lucky. i
00:02:24
Speaker
got my apprenticeship with New York City Ballet just kind of merely months before seth did. I started in the summer with them. And then that fall, Seth joined as an apprentice as well. We both danced with the company together. i danced for six years and he danced for seven. And then... We moved together to Seattle and joined Pacific Northwest Ballet together. So we have a long history. And now we run a business
From Dancers to Business Partners
00:02:50
Speaker
together. Yes. So how has that partnership evolved from the time you were 16 years old and just starting your dance careers?
00:02:58
Speaker
to now being business partners. You're kids when you're 16 years old, right? We were chasing our dreams. Right. And we grew up together as well. And we were fortunate enough to go into our careers together and kind of grow as a couple then. And then coming out to Seattle, we really came out here to have a career, of course, but then to also have a family. And like the future is what we were thinking about. And now with the business, it's a whole other dynamic of everything that comes with running a business day-to- day to day.
00:03:31
Speaker
How do you guys manage that? It has been a work in progress because we work out of our home. We work together. We're both so passionate about Orza and serving dancers through the products that Seth has developed. But running a business isn't just getting beautiful shoes out to beautiful dancers. It is customer service and it is so much to have behind the scenes that is extremely stressful and high pressure.
00:03:56
Speaker
We both get stressed and we have worked really hard to try to set boundaries, which means, you know, not answering emails or, you know, which is hard to do, you know, after a certain time. And we both we set all these rules and then we break all these rules. But I think we also just try to have fun while doing it We both feel like we're very lucky to be where we are, to be seeing the impact that the shoes are making on dancers. So i think that's what Seth set out to do. And sometimes we just have our heads so much down in the game on the day to day that when we stop to look up and go like, oh, my gosh, it's actually really working and it's really effective is really amazing. So trying to balance. And I think with us being together for so long and then working together in the dynamic of a partnership on stage and all of that stuff kind of set the tone for what to expect of working together like this. We get asked that question a lot to my friends and stuff because I think for a lot of people it's kind of unimaginable and sometimes I'm like...
00:04:53
Speaker
I wish he just went to the office for the day and then we could come back. and But, you know, at this point, it's what we know and we make the best of it. And there's a lot of wonderful things about working together. And our kids have us around a lot. We're fortunate on that side as well as we get to work out of our house and really be around our kids all the time.
00:05:16
Speaker
So... Yeah, for sure. It's not without its challenges. Yeah. But again, I think we learned those things when we were dancing together. How to work together. How to work together. Communicate. Yeah, communication. And we're very different personalities.
00:05:30
Speaker
I'm a Pisces and he's a Scorpio, which our older daughter loves to like analyze what that means as a love match. But I think that it works because in many ways we're very different. So like where Seth's calm and methodical. I'm like, go, go, go, no patience. And so we find a balance. We bounce off each other. Yeah, I love that. So as professional dancers, what did your bodies, especially your feet, go through during your
The Genesis of Shock-Absorbing Ballet Shoes
00:05:54
Speaker
performing career? Were there any major injuries that you sustained that caused you to kind of question the nature of how ballet shoes are made?
00:06:01
Speaker
Yes. So my first real injury, i was probably 11. And this was my time with San Francisco Ballet. And it was actually because I was going through a growth spurt at that point. And my heels hurt so bad that I was already back then stuffing silicone gels into my shoes. And this is back in 1992 about. And... But already, i was already doing what i did later in my career, but I was injured. ah But what was it that you had with your heels? Because it's a common thing we hear now. It's like a growing pain.
00:06:37
Speaker
you remember what it is? We don't remember what it is. But it was something that i heard from a parent via email and I said it to Seth and he was like, oh, yeah, i I totally had that. But throughout my career, I've injured probably every part of my body. I never broke a bone, but I've torn like my shoulders three times each. I've had my patellas, PRP injections three times each. My back I put out probably like six times. Harniated, desperate. herniated disc and all that, where really excruciating pains. And then my foot would stem this whole problem or what caused me to go down the road of building a shoe was I tore my plantar fascia and had a procedure done to help with it and to get back on stage. And this is during my New York City Ballet days.
00:07:25
Speaker
And it didn't alleviate any pain. It just kept me off stage. And then my doctor, Dr. Bauman at the time in in New York was like, you have to go to Duane Reade, to Walgreens, just pick up whatever you can find off the shelf and start shoving it into your shoes. And we went through probably 11 different brands and found something that was comparable, which is this right here.
00:07:45
Speaker
And this is really what stemmed. The whole idea for me was wearing this because it alleviated my pain within like a week. You know, and I was dealing with this for months.
00:07:56
Speaker
And from that point forward, I did my first show of Romeo and Juliet, Peter Martin's Romeo Juliet in 2005. From that point forward, I could not even think about not wearing this technology in my shoes. And it was also the thought of like, why hasn't this been done yet? Like, why? The question is, why am I having as a dancer i having to go to the drugstore and buy something that's designed for runners to put in their sneakers, to put in my shoes? Why isn't there a shoe that already does this?
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah. And then it also brought to my attention that all my colleagues were doing the same thing, like everywhere, not just at City Ballet, at San Francisco Ballet in Europe. When I would gig, someone would be like, oh, i'm doing the same thing. I'm stuffing this into my ma material. I was just actually in San Francisco and talking with a former dancer that I like aspired to. I loved his dancing. He was like, what are you doing in SF? And I was at SFB last week. And he was like, you know, I used to do the same thing that you did.
00:08:53
Speaker
You know, and it's just so it's like one of those things that you don't realize until you actually have to start doing it yourself. And then we'd have parents saying, oh I've been putting stuff in my kid's shoe because of X, Y, Z. Right. And so I'm so glad that I found your shoe. so we don't have to do this anymore. So it's really...
00:09:12
Speaker
An epidemic of, you know, chronically underserving ballet shoes and pointe shoes are always in the forefront of everybody's mind and ballet. And that's where, you know, it's not that there hasn't been innovation and money poured into hands but where it's just been predominantly with the pointe shoe. Yeah, and so with designing the shoe, it was a necessity for me to do for myself.
00:09:36
Speaker
And that's what kind of drove the shoe becoming a business and then seeing it and developing it with my friends and colleagues all over the States and just like trying to figure out what the best shoe is that we could make using sneaker technology and engineering, like a running shoe and putting that kind of technology into business.
00:09:56
Speaker
flat shoe or a ballet slipper without changing the aesthetic that dancers expect you know because we have all this sneaker technology but this shoe still looks relatively the same and it's almost the same weight all those different dynamics that you have to think about when you're engineering something that's really just two pieces of canvas that's all the shoe is just trying to put these components into it without messing up what people expect So how did you go about doing that? That sounds like such a complicated process. I wouldn't even know where to begin with design a shoe like that.
00:10:29
Speaker
started doing sketches. Like back in the beginning, I was just sketching it out. And then with what I had, i didn't want to make something like this because this is made for a sneaker.
00:10:40
Speaker
Like I put it into my ballet shoe, but it's made to have a counter. It's made to have stability. It's made to have... And by counter, you want to clarify what a counter is? A counter is what is on the heel of your tennis shoe or a boot. It's just the way that they're built. The upper has a counter in it so that it doesn't move. So you have stability with your sneakers. He didn't just want like put a heel cup inside a shoe that you could see. So he took the technology and he built the shoe around the Which is the big difference. But I know dancers and I know they look at something and they'll be like, wow, this is not good at all. And I just was like, that was the voice in your head. Yes. A judgy dancer. Yes. I could see them looking at something with like a slap of padding and just be like, oh, that's just looks like there's no thought behind it. And the whole thing for me from the beginning, and I started this in 2010, going down the road of product development and all that, was that it had to be incorporated into the shoe itself, like built around it so it's all seamless. You can't see it from the inside. Right. But to answer your question, because how do you go about doing that? He just went to cobblers here in Seattle. What? You probably just did like a Google search. I was connected through our PT here, our physical therapist here with a orthotic maker that they worked with. And then they connected me with shoe cobblers as well. So I went down the rabbit hole of trying to find cobblers and orthotic makers. We ended building like one good sample. He was like...
00:12:09
Speaker
duct taping his foot i was like are we playing with plaster and making like feet like all he had to make like a mold like it was really like a science experiment from the ground up and then from there once there was some kind of prototype it was like ultimately it had to find a way to be able to manufacture it at a mass scale and so then he began a journey overseas to try to find a factory It's one thing to build one prototype, and then it's another thing to build an assembly of it.
00:12:40
Speaker
So that was a huge learning curve for me. And I went to a manufacturer in China for the first time. And it was just like, I went with my sketches and like one prototype and they're like, what are we going to do here? And that was in 2014. And fourteen and that was my first time, a real world experience of sitting with shoe engineers and seeing how it works and really knowing that I have no idea what I'm doing. So it was like a big reality check for me to go back to the drawing board. And now that I know what they expect and what they need, now we can start designing it. And I was in China frequently from 2014 through 2017, designing with different manufacturers, factories, engineers, different places all over China, and then worked out of Pakistan and then Dominican Republic as well, and then ended up in Thailand in 2018.
00:13:29
Speaker
So it's been a really long road of designing it because a lot of the manufacturers were like, this is changing the whole assembly process of their shoe. Like Valley shoes have been made a certain way for so long that a lot of them like, we're not willing to change this and change the way that we have to do the whole assembly line and invest into this and then change the processes as as well. And just slap a padding in is not what I wanted to do. that's what they would come to me with was like, Hey, here we did it. And I'm like, no, that's not it. Like, it's not even close, you know? And I received a loafer at one point and I was like, not even close to what we're doing. So our manufacturer is now out of Thailand in a former Nike facility. And we have engineers that, you know, worked for Nike. And so coming back to that sneaker engineering that's been incorporated in the shoe is really cool.
00:14:23
Speaker
So the shoes are really shock absorbing. So what do the dancers feel when they're wearing
Orza Shoes: Performance and Safety Benefits
00:14:28
Speaker
them? What is the difference? It's a huge difference. You'll put it on. And like what I get when I'm in the field putting shoes on dancers and they're like, wow, this is like a shoe. It's like a sneaker. It feels like a cloud. You know, like that's what a lot of them say as well. Because it's not only padding in the heel section, there's padding in the metatarsal. But at the same time, it still feels like a ballet shoe. yeah we'll let those <unk> ice path but one of the main questions people have for us is like, how am I going to connect with the floor? Or, you know, i need to feel the floor.
00:15:02
Speaker
very much are still connected to the floor. It's a little bit of a different way in which you connect to the floor, but a good comparison is pointe shoes, right? So you have the shank that runs the whole length of the bottom. When you're doing adagio at center or you're standing in fifth at the bar, you're still connected to the floor, right? But you're also rotating from your hips and you're lifting up and out. And that's more of the feeling you get inside the Orza shoe versus the stretch canvas, like really sock-like slipper where you're really just literally on the floor because there's nothing between you, right? So we know dancers exist in shoes that have, you know, because we dance in pointe shoes, that we do have a little bit of separation between our foot and the floor and that is okay. And you're still very much connected to the floor and you figure out how to work that way. And what's interesting is we have dancers who,
00:15:49
Speaker
comment about how it's helped them engage bigger muscles like their quads and their glutes because they're using the rotation and they're not just sunken with their delicate bones of their feet impacting the floor. And another piece that just kind of speaks to that difference is when we've done some biomechanical studies with the University of Puget Sound and The initial feedback we've gotten is that we're not changing the way the body works to dance. So that biomechanical feedback is the same, whether you're in a soft canvas, stretch canvas, you know, dance slipper or our shoe, you're still performing the moves in the same way. It's not changing the way you dance, which is not what we want. You don't want to change the way dancers dance, but we want to soften the impact because that repetitive motion and particularly jumps, that's where these injuries come into play and we're seeing more and more of them. So if you're limiting that impact, if the shoe is um absorbing the impact rather than the foot, that's where you get that benefit. And the same thing in the metatarsal area. There's not as much padding, but there's absorption in there that's absorbing that impact.
00:16:56
Speaker
So now that you're on this side of the business and really looking at... the shoes and the dancers who are themselves performing, what are you noticing about dancers' bodies or the working conditions that they're in that you didn't really maybe fully see when you were still in your career?
00:17:13
Speaker
My realization was not everyone has the studio settings that we grew up with, sprung floors, even wood floors. There are schools that I have gig at, and I was thankful that I had the support that I had. And all the kids are either on concrete, they're not on sprung floors, which is a huge thing for kids that are growing, kids that are jumping. And they're going all out, full out with feeling. And like, ow. It's not even just kids. The floors of every dance company or every dance school, they're not all sprung. You know, for the most part, people are in Marley. but we see a lot of the big conventions and they're in big rooms and they're on carpet, which is probably, you know, concrete underneath. But for the most part, you know, people in studios, they're on Marley. But what's underneath is not created equal. Right. For sure. Like there's no like oversight boards that saying, well, if someone's doing dance, it needs to be on this kind of flooring. Right. So it's pretty vast. And that's one of the things that I didn't realize until I was creating this shoe and actually going. and this is when I was still dancing and I would go gig and I'm sharing what I'm doing. But then I'm like, oh, my gosh, you guys are like dancing on this floor. Like and it's not really a dance floor. It's more of an auditorium floor. It's right for. And we would go and do like Nutcracker guestings and i do like, oh, I'm not doing this next year because like the floor is so rough. Right. So, you know, with our shoes, we're like, let's level the playing field. At least if, you know, we've got people that are not on great floors, they can have. And actually we had this because I sit in the marketing seat, but I'm also our customer service. So I, you know, am in touch with our customers. We wear lots of hats here. But yeah, small business. But I had a dance teacher reach out and they, her company that was made of students, but a lot of what they do is outreach in their community. And so they're performing in gymnasiums and schools. And I did that as a kid, right? And she was like, I'm going to get every person in my company. It was a small, you know, there was like 13 dancers or something, but she was like, I'm getting a pair for everybody. And I just thought that was so lovely that people recognize that and see the product as my dancers deserve this. My dancers need this. So I'm going to support them with it.
00:19:21
Speaker
Let's pause this episode so I can tell you about one of my favorite new resources for dancers, the Chronicle Studio app. Chronicle Studio is designed to strengthen dancers from the inside out with classical ballet classes you can take from anywhere, technique tutorials, and deep dives into allegro vocabulary and execution.
00:19:42
Speaker
The app also includes a tips and tricks section, plus a comprehensive list of resources to help you grow as a dancer. One of my favorite elements of the app is the community section, where you can connect with other dancers with the same drive and passion for ballet.
00:19:57
Speaker
Right now, founder Elizabeth Troxler is inviting you to become a founding member of the Chronicle Studio app. If you're a dancer or teacher willing to share honest feedback to help grow the app with the content you love, now is the time to get involved.
00:20:13
Speaker
Head to the link in my show notes to download the Chronicle Studio app and have everything you need to build stronger, smarter dancers right at your fingertips. If we have a dancer listening who is really pushing through pain or discomfort because they think that they have to in their career,
00:20:28
Speaker
What would you want them to know? i think we can speak to that in a twofold perspective. One of having lived it and understanding that it feels like you have to push through that, right? And I know so many young dancers, there's just fear that you're going to miss. If i take care of my injury, if I listen to my body and heed what my pain is telling me, then I am potentially going to not get this role or I'm not going to get to do this performance. We both relate to that. The dance is that a few times where I was not walking off stage and then i would go dance. a The dance career is so short. So you feel this pressure. that said, there's always something around the corner waiting for you. And it's so important to listen to your body. Your body pain is speaking to you to let you know that there's something going on.
00:21:16
Speaker
within. then And before anything gets worse, before, you know, you potentially miss even more, you have to stop and listen and check in and give yourself permission to step back even just a little bit. In terms of kind of overall advice, i get it. It is so hard to take a step back and dance. And I know it's a struggle for young dancers. It's a struggle for older dancers. In a way, it never gets easier, but it is also just part of the career. And, you know, you have to look at the long game, right? Most young dancers want to be doing this for a long time. So it's important to take care of yourself now. And really, for me, the shoe is a tool, you know, and it's not just another piece of something that you put on. It's actually a tool that they can use throughout their careers. This starts at student level. They can put this on. We're seeing signs that there's injury prevention across the board. Yeah, it's just one of those things that I use as a tool for myself.
00:22:14
Speaker
And it's something that I think dancers should know that it's available, that there's something that we're offering that other dance brands don't offer, and that it could actually alleviate some of the pains, you know, of what we're seeing on our end anecdotally.
00:22:28
Speaker
Or it could be preventative. you know Even if you haven't experienced this pain yet, chances are you're going to be in an environment at some point where you have a less than ideal floor or just a piece where you're jumping a lot or things happen. So having something preventative.
00:22:41
Speaker
That's exactly right. And you know the shoe is not by any means meant to just be worn if you're in pain or because you want to prevent pain. The long-term effects and the short-term effects, of the high-impact repetitive movement that is dance. It's just really important that you have a shoe that is supporting your body. You know, for students, they're still in their growing period. So everything is loose. Like you asked in your previous question, you know, they tend to push themselves really hard and they haven't learned the limitations. And it does start to take a toll after a while. So the idea that the earlier you could get these useful tools into your dance bag, the better.
00:23:24
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like looking at other sports. Other sports are so far ahead of the arts. In terms of the equipment they prem provide. yeah And all of the things that you can be like, okay, i want that because it's going to make me feel better here. It's just not readily available for dancers. I mean, sometimes notice I think dancers, we have this, you know, hopefully it's changing within younger dancers, but there's, I mean, because it's an art, you know, and dancers are athletes, but first and foremost, it's an art form, right? And there's this like kind of romanticized notion that you have to suffer for your art. Right. And dancers, we will suffer for art. It's like, yes, we will do anything to follow our passion and our dreams. And we just want to change that dynamic so you don't need to suffer quite so much. And we really think you deserve equipment that meets those basic athletic needs. The demands you're putting on your body day in, day out don't deserve nothing because that's just the tradition. That's what's always been offered. Like, let's actually go in and look at how do we serve dancers and change that kind of dynamic of suffering, so to speak.
00:24:33
Speaker
And what you're doing is honestly more complicated because as an athlete, like a basketball player or a football player, no one cares what you look like as long as you get it done, right? So the shoes and the equipment can look however it wants. As long as you're winning the game, no one cares. But valet is aesthetic. We do care what our feet look like and how we can make those lines. And so bringing this tool to the industry, I can understand how much more complicated that would be than a regular sneaker.
00:25:02
Speaker
Yeah, and I think we were really successful about, I mean, it looks like a traditional flat shoe and it performs like a traditional flat shoe, but with a more positive effect. Yeah, I feel like sports equipment, that you can be like vibrant and have logos all over it and all this stuff. This is like we have to hide every single piece of this so you can't see it.
00:25:24
Speaker
Though we didn't make the insult um for us. Yes, I love. Yeah, I love the insult. Yeah, the only part that we changed. Yeah, and I think that's what took me so long to build this was because you're really trying to keep the tradition of dance and what people expect, but change it completely from the ground up.
00:25:44
Speaker
I want to ask you some more questions about life as business owners because I know a lot of dancers are at some point in their career thinking about their next act, what they're going to do when they retire.
00:25:55
Speaker
What transferable skills from your professional dance careers helped you the most when you started building a business?
Lessons from Dance to Entrepreneurship
00:26:02
Speaker
o I would say my dedication and focus, like the things that you are doing your whole career are what I bring into the business itself. I think dancers are some of the most adaptable, most determined, hardworking people on the planet, right? I think when you commit to dance, you commit to showing up for yourself, for your teammates, so to speak, every day. And those skills are so transferable into the real world, right? So any company, company values are going to be people who show up and who are fully committed and who persevere and overcome challenges and work as a team. There are so many skills that you develop.
00:26:46
Speaker
At the student level, right, that commitment. I was just talking to someone yesterday. it feels like there's a certain age where students go either, this is so boring and I want to do something else that's like really more fun and exciting because it's repetitive, right? And it demands so much of you, of your time, your focus. And then for those that know that they want to continue on and keep going,
00:27:07
Speaker
With the training, you know, it's like a renewal of that commitment and knowing it takes a lot of sacrifice to write for dance students. You're probably missing a lot of stuff that maybe a lot of other people your age are doing. And so, again, it's really about that focus and devotion to what you know you want to do and following path. path that you've chosen for yourself. I think it can be really scary to think about the end, right? Because it is this career that always comes to an end. And I think not to fear it or be worried about it because anything dancers put their minds to, they're able to chase and follow through on. And again, they're just so adaptable. The other thing that's really exciting is that you do have the opportunity to do something else, right? Because, you know, if it is your career path, it is short. Yeah, I think pursuing school like alongside dance is really wonderful. I always loved that aspect of expanding my mind and keeping my mind engaged and anything else that just kind of piques your interest or you could decide to reinvent the wheel. Dancers are so disciplined and they're hard workers. So I feel like that's what you bring into the next part of your life after the career of being a dancer.
00:28:18
Speaker
And detail-oriented too, right? like There's so many skills and attributes that dancers generate for themselves over the course of dancing that are just so valuable in real life. Yeah. Being a dancer is such a hard career. And then when you retire, and like when I was starting my business, I was like, I can figure any of this out.
00:28:38
Speaker
yeah If I could a dancer, I can figure any of this stuff out. That's no big deal because I think that's part of a dancer too is just that ability to say, I don't know what I'm doing, but I know I can learn it. Right. yeah Right. Diving into the challenge. And adapting to the environment of whatever happens.
00:28:55
Speaker
That's kind of what we do day to day is we're just adapting and learning as we go. And and we always say like we really are good at taking feedback and criticism because as a dancer, that's such an important thing to be always open to. Right. You're essentially taking feedback from somebody at the front of the room all the time. And I think it translates well into our business because, you know, we hear feedback from dancers or we we just always listen and apply feedback and don't take it personally because it's like it's such a useful tool. And I think for so many people, it can make people angry or defensive, right, to hear feedback. If it feels like it's like negative feedback, right, which is just a part of life. I think as a brand as well, I think that's a good quality to have. Like with OP1, the original shoe, we took a bunch of feedback and built 2.0 because we want everyone to have the opportunity to wear this. And we're going to continue to do that and get feedback and continue to evolve and all that. And if we want to include the dancers. I mean, this is who it's for now. It was for myself at the beginning, but now it's it's evolved into this whole other thing where it's actually the next generation of dancers. And for next products too, right? People are always telling us, well, this is what you should do next. so And we have the running test of we want to do all the things. It's on the list. It's on the list. Yeah.
00:30:15
Speaker
Yeah. What's on the horizon next for Orza? Anything you can share with us? Yeah. We're keeping in the shoe space. It's just about the age groups because each age group kind of has its own quality or necessity of what they need out of the shoe. And that's kind of what we're diving into. So a children's line. A children's line is really what's next. Yeah. The shoe now is really catered towards students, pre-pro and professional dancers and then adult dancers. So a kid's line.
00:30:42
Speaker
Exciting. yeah Last question I have for both of you. If you had to give aspiring professional dancers who are pursuing their professional career one piece of advice based on everything that you've learned over your years, what would you tell them?
Advice for Aspiring Dancers
00:30:56
Speaker
As hard as it can be. don't compare yourself to other dancers. It's always so hard, you know, when casting goes up and promotions happen, because even though, you know, when you're dancing on stage, like in the core, you're working with others. It always feels like you're kind of pitted against the dancer next to you, which to a degree you are, that everybody is just on their own timeline, keeping your eyes focused on yourself. I think it's beneficial if there's a dancer you would admire the way they use their hands or their work ethic, right? You can use that to make subtle changes to the way you move or the way you interact with the studio on a daily basis, but just not get lost in the comparison game. My promotion to principal happened late, you know, later than typical. And so it wasn't like a really rapid progression, but it was the way it was meant to be and felt frustrating at times, but it was my path, right? And looking back, it was just the way it was meant to be. You just lose steam if you spend too much time comparing yourself and feeling less than because of it.
00:31:59
Speaker
I would just say to believe in yourself. You know, like if you have an idea of like business or you're going down a different road after your career is really it all comes down to believing in yourself and then things just start to happen that way.
00:32:13
Speaker
And that's like for me, i was like, I really believe in what I'm doing. And this is back before I even had any prototypes. I just believe that this could actually make a difference.
00:32:24
Speaker
but What about for dancers who are still dancing and don't want to transition yet? same advice? Yeah, I mean, that goes into, that's exactly how I did my career. I would go on stage and even with all the noise around you, all the people telling you what to do all the different critiques, all the things that you have to add, you're still going out there alone. And it's only you going out there and you can take all this stuff, but you really have to go out there and you have to believe in yourself first. And that's what really shows that someone like the most...
00:32:58
Speaker
high level dancers is that they go on stage and they just are so confident. Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things. It's hard to do as a dancer because you're critiqued so much and you're always like looking internal. You're always looking at yourself in the mirror. You're always critiquing yourself. Like every day you're just looking at yourself and trying to get better.
00:33:16
Speaker
But it's all about believing in yourself. Did do you feel like that belief in yourself came naturally as a dancer? Did you have to learn that skill? I would say it did come naturally for me, but it evolved over the years. Like with school, you go through the student level and you're just like getting better. And then you get into the company and then there's a whole nother level to get to. And it's always just competing with yourself. So yeah, you have to evolve as you go. But for me, i would say i was always a confident dancer, but it was always my surroundings. It was my friends and it was my colleagues. We were like a team, even though we were separate in our careers, we still like pushed each other to go harder, faster, bigger, all those things. And we've talked about this before, I think, in interviews. I think he naturally has confidence or else really early on, he just really realized how important that was going to be to be his like own cheerleader. But I think you know if you don't have that innately and you don't have that inner confidence, that's the more standard way that dancers feel.
00:34:23
Speaker
You have this really incredible gift of how you can counterbalance that. And that's going into the studio and that's showing up and doing the work. And so even if your inner voice is saying, I'm not as good as, I can't do this, this isn't good enough.
00:34:41
Speaker
Day after day, you can go in and you can practice those things and you can work on those things and you get better. Right. So regardless of how you feel up in your mind, if you are doing the work, that's what's important. So stay there and you'll start to see these, you know, a little incremental differences and changes. And, know, the Olympics, the Winter Olympics, we were watching that. And it was so interesting to hear there was a female snowboarder and she was saying, I show up at the top of that mountain and I know that I showed up earlier than everybody else. I know I was on the slopes. Right.
00:35:12
Speaker
As much as I can. I did the work. So that's important too. Like sometimes you get in the head space and then you're like, I don't want to go or I don't want to. and it's a circle, right? So you have to get out of your head and get in there and do the work.
00:35:26
Speaker
That totally reminds me of like what I always had in my head was one of my teachers. And he said, Jorge Esquivel, that you'll have to find your own fire. I'm here right now. But once you get into a company, you're going to be the one coming every day, showing up, and you're going to have to push yourself. No one else is going to push you. You know, you'd be like, yes, guy, find the fire. You know, like, and that's the thing that was always in my head as like a kid from like 12 years old on is like, okay, if I really want this, I'm going to have to do it.
00:35:58
Speaker
I think that's great advice. Thank you so much, both of you, for all of this insight today. I love my Orzas, especially as a teacher. It's great because I feel like that's always a big thing too for dance teachers is we're like, do we wear the jazz sneakers? Do we wear just tennis shoes? Like what is to be helpful for your feet for that many hours a day? And the Orzas are a great compromise for me because I want to have supported feet, but also be able to articulate and show things when I'm teaching. So it's great. Oh, that's awesome to hear.
Where to Find Orza Shoes
00:36:28
Speaker
Yeah. If anyone listening wants to learn more about you or get their own pair of Orza shoes, where can they find you? Yeah, they can find us at Orzabrand.com. So www.orzabrand.com. And we're on Instagram as Orzabrand as well. You can always send me an email. It's just contact at Orzabrand and we can see if there's a reseller in your area or I can help you get into a size for an online order. Perfect. Thank you so much. Thanks, Lila. Thank you.
00:36:56
Speaker
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00:37:09
Speaker
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00:37:22
Speaker
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